00:17:46 <b_jonas> zzo38: because I added the categories and nobody removed them yet
00:18:01 <b_jonas> if you don't think they're appropirate you can delete them
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05:12:24 <esolangs> [[Random-ass Turing Complete Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123419&oldid=123353 * EvyLah * (-56) hello world program works ok
05:13:45 <esolangs> [[MCA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123420&oldid=123281 * EvyLah * (-18) brilliant spelling by me fixed
05:40:51 <esolangs> [[MCA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123421&oldid=123420 * EvyLah * (+2618)
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06:04:10 <shachaf> int-e: Wow, some of these N Step Steve Part 2 puzzles are hard!
06:05:02 <shachaf> And finally did 13,21 again.
06:08:30 <shachaf> Some of these are really good, I kind of forgot.
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10:14:14 <int-e> shachaf: well I still have the map so I don't have to replay it. :-P
10:15:46 <int-e> shachaf: and the screenshots I have in the map include hints: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/steve-13-21.png
10:21:55 <int-e> (actually I don't know which of the steve games that is from)
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10:24:10 <wib_jonas> ais523: so I can solve the special case of your problem where no directed path in your DAG is longer than 2 (so the DAG only has three components, with all arcs going from an upper component to a lower one), but I don't see if this solution generalizes.
10:26:11 <wib_jonas> ais523: say you have a DAG with just three colors, upper, middle, and lower, with edges going from upper to middle, or middle to lower, or upper to lower. the DAG has O(n) edges and nodes. first, find all nodes in the middle color only that have an indegree higher than n**(1/2), and call these nodes fat. there must be at most n**(1/2) fat nodes.
10:27:39 <wib_jonas> now for each fat node separately, you can do two graph traversals to see if there's two paths between the same two point where one path goes through that fat point, each such traversal costs n**(1+o(1)) and you do this at most n**(1/2) times so that's n**(3/2+o(1)) time.
10:29:56 <wib_jonas> then from each starting node you can do a search to find if there are two paths to the same destination starting from that node, except when you do this, don't continue to search from fat nodes. if you do the search this way, you reach each middle node from at most n**(1/2) starting point, and so follow each arc at most n**(1/2) times, so all these
10:29:56 <wib_jonas> searches together must take at most n**(3/2+o(1)) time, and they find any double path where neither of them go through a fat point.
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11:01:52 <ais523> wib_jonas: ooh, that's clever – subquadratic but superlinear
11:03:06 <ais523> I keep forgetting that there are valid computational complexities between O(n log^k n) and O(n^2)
11:22:15 <ais523> I need to go to bed, so I'm not sure I've got this right, but: it may be possible to generalize it via splitting the graph into two halves (with no edges from the latter half to the former half), then recursing on both halves to see if there are any two-paths within one half, then using your algorithm on the edges that go between the two paths
11:22:46 <ais523> not 100% sure this comes out as subquadratic but I think it does
11:23:35 <ais523> * the edges that go between the two halves
11:25:17 <ais523> actually I suspect I've got this wrong, the part of the proof where you count the number of starting nodes doesn't generalize properly
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13:00:40 <esolangs> [[Hello, golf!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123422&oldid=123417 * None1 * (+46)
13:02:34 <esolangs> [[User:Shamrocky]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123423&oldid=123361 * Shamrocky * (+4) rearranged the interests section alphabetically, also added the "Class of '09" Section, also unbolded and decapitalized kaito in the vocaloid section
13:05:05 <esolangs> [[User:Shamrocky]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123424&oldid=123423 * Shamrocky * (+283) forgot to add the Class of '09 section
13:06:22 <esolangs> [[User:Shamrocky]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123425&oldid=123424 * Shamrocky * (-6) Removed the line break for the sake of simplicity
13:07:49 <esolangs> [[User:Shamrocky]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123426&oldid=123425 * Shamrocky * (+81)
13:10:48 <esolangs> [[User:Shamrocky]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123427&oldid=123426 * Shamrocky * (+66) /* Interests */
13:11:04 <esolangs> [[User:Shamrocky]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123428&oldid=123427 * Shamrocky * (+2) /* Interests */
13:11:21 <esolangs> [[User:Shamrocky]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123429&oldid=123428 * Shamrocky * (-1) /* Interests */
13:11:32 <esolangs> [[User:Shamrocky]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123430&oldid=123429 * Shamrocky * (+1) /* Interests */
13:12:58 <esolangs> [[User:Shamrocky]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123431&oldid=123430 * Shamrocky * (+24) /* Interests */ Added Indents
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13:30:14 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=123432 * Shamrocky * (+788) Created page with "Circle of Life is a joke language created by [[User:Shamrocky]] which involves using operators that have a 2-action lifespan before they "die" (No longer usable). Each operator may take one of several actions. {| class="wikitable" |+ Circle of Life Commands |-
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14:00:01 <esolangs> [[Snake Shit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123433&oldid=123225 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+5) Supplemented missing periods (.) to sentences in the mirror-machine program documentation.
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14:24:58 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123434&oldid=123432 * Shamrocky * (+1029)
14:26:22 <esolangs> [[Captive]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123435&oldid=123390 * Rottytooth * (-1) /* Constants */
14:32:01 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123436&oldid=123434 * Shamrocky * (+101) /* Intricacies and Nuance */
14:32:47 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123437&oldid=123340 * Shamrocky * (+67) /* General languages */
14:43:27 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123438&oldid=123436 * Shamrocky * (+52) /* Intricacies and Nuance */
14:49:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:Circle of Life]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=123439 * Shamrocky * (+92) Created page with "This is my first language I probably made a lot of errors lol - [[User:Shamrocky|Shamrocky]]"
14:50:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123440&oldid=123439 * Shamrocky * (+1)
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15:24:16 <esolangs> [[lang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=123441 * Yourusername * (+717) ~~~~
15:25:57 <esolangs> [[lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123442&oldid=123441 * Yourusername * (+33) /* Version 1 */
15:48:54 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123443&oldid=123167 * Shamrocky * (+21) /* C */
15:49:38 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123444&oldid=123437 * Shamrocky * (-67) /* General languages */ Decided that [[Circle of Life]] was better as a serious language
15:51:48 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123445&oldid=123438 * Shamrocky * (-10) /* Basic Functions */
15:52:56 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123446&oldid=123445 * Shamrocky * (+15) /* Basic Functions */
15:55:38 <esolangs> [[FatFinger]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=123447 * Rottytooth * (+1128) Added FatFinger stub
15:58:28 <esolangs> [[User:Rottytooth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123448&oldid=123381 * Rottytooth * (+23) added FatFinger
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16:20:54 <esolangs> [[ITMR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123449&oldid=123329 * Alanmalan * (+9)
16:21:04 <esolangs> [[Talk:Code your own instructions, lazyass]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=123450 * EvyLah * (+309) /* Categorization? */ new section
16:22:01 <esolangs> [[Talk:Code your own instructions, lazyass]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123451&oldid=123450 * EvyLah * (-18) should not be using category
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16:22:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:Code your own instructions, lazyass]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123452&oldid=123451 * EvyLah * (-8) removed links
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16:27:58 <shachaf> int-e: That one is from part 2.
16:33:41 <esolangs> [[User:Shamrocky]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123453&oldid=123431 * Shamrocky * (+21) /* Unimplemented */
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16:41:32 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123454&oldid=123446 * Shamrocky * (+455)
16:42:19 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123455&oldid=123454 * Shamrocky * (+8) /* Errors */ Lengthened error codes in preparation for sub-errors
16:44:55 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123456&oldid=123455 * Shamrocky * (+85) /* Intricacies and Nuance */
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17:06:19 <ais523> b_jonas: OK, so a good counterexample for this two-paths-between-two-points problem seems to be the graph used by FFTs (which has edges from (a, b) to (a, b+1) and (a xor (1<<b), b+1))
17:06:51 <ais523> that contains at most one path between any two points, and is symmetrical, so I think it implies that your construction doesn't generalise
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17:12:08 <wib_jonas> ais523: hmm, so the nodes have just 2 indegree and 2 outdegree, but every node has either Omega(n) ancestors or Omega(n) descendants so you can't hope to traverse up or down from them fast
17:14:55 <wib_jonas> I probably chose the wrong special case to try to solve first
17:16:43 <ais523> it's a good special case, though – and I was also trying to see if that one worked, first
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17:20:57 <esolangs> [[User:Rottytooth]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123457&oldid=123448 * Rottytooth * (+44)
17:25:49 <esolangs> [[Talk:Folders]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123458&oldid=107384 * Rottytooth * (+118) /* Umm this actually (and obviously) is not 0 byte code */
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17:45:05 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123459&oldid=123456 * Shamrocky * (+92) /* Example Programs */ Minor Progress on a 2-func calculator
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17:56:33 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123460&oldid=123459 * Shamrocky * (+166) /* 2 Function Calculator */ Another minor update to the calculator
18:02:30 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123461&oldid=123460 * Shamrocky * (+117) /* Basic Functions */ Added Add and Sub functions
18:05:19 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123462&oldid=123461 * Shamrocky * (+41) /* 2 Function Calculator */
18:06:37 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123463&oldid=123462 * Shamrocky * (-14) /* Basic Functions */
18:10:10 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123464&oldid=123463 * Shamrocky * (+73) /* Basic Functions */ Added the Sunder Action
18:18:37 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123465&oldid=123464 * Shamrocky * (+228) /* 2 Function Calculator */
18:19:30 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123466&oldid=123465 * Shamrocky * (+86) /* Basic Functions */
18:22:46 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123467&oldid=123466 * Shamrocky * (+401) /* 2 Function Calculator */ Finished Calculator
18:23:30 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123468&oldid=123467 * Shamrocky * (+55) /* Errors */
18:46:47 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123469&oldid=123468 * Shamrocky * (+41) /* Errors */
18:48:35 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123470&oldid=123469 * Shamrocky * (+0) /* Errors */
18:52:54 <shachaf> int-e: Oh man, remember 14,19?
19:09:54 <esolangs> [[Graphene]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=123471 * Baltdev * (+5841) Created page with "== Graphene == Graphene is an esoteric programming language created by ~~~ in 2024. The program structure is defined by an arbitrary graph structure. === Layout === A program is laid out as a graph with nodes and edges. At the start of the file, an Exit node must be
19:10:22 <esolangs> [[Graphene]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123472&oldid=123471 * Baltdev * (-22)
19:12:08 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123473&oldid=123470 * Shamrocky * (+119) Added Categories
19:13:25 <esolangs> [[Circle of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123474&oldid=123473 * Shamrocky * (-28) removed Deterministic Category
19:13:52 <esolangs> [[Graphene]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123475&oldid=123472 * Baltdev * (+307)
19:15:10 <esolangs> [[Graphene]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123476&oldid=123475 * Baltdev * (-1) /* Structure */
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19:26:26 <esolangs> [[Graphene]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123477&oldid=123476 * Baltdev * (+349)
19:27:08 <esolangs> [[Graphene]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123478&oldid=123477 * Baltdev * (-1) /* Structure */
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20:19:22 <int-e> shachaf: kind of but not really
20:21:00 <int-e> shachaf: was there a star in there, above the wall?
20:22:51 <shachaf> Uh, I'm already out of the room, I should have taken a screenshot.
20:23:42 <int-e> shachaf: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/random_steve.png is what I have
20:24:24 <int-e> but my screenshots tend to not show stars
20:25:35 <shachaf> The star was above the wall in the top right, yes.
20:26:00 <int-e> I do remember thinking it was impossible to get.
20:26:38 <shachaf> We both did, and then we both figured it out.
20:26:46 <shachaf> And now I don't remember how it went.
20:27:34 <int-e> I don't remember exactly. But I do remember what the logical mistake was.
20:35:06 <int-e> I don't think I can figure the details out without playing the game again.
20:35:25 <int-e> Christmas 2022. Hmm.
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20:57:44 <esolangs> [[In Your JSON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123479&oldid=119656 * Cocosbeans * (-182) updated the js code to be much nicer
20:58:30 <esolangs> [[Shortstack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=123480 * Mmph * (+123) Created page with "{{lowercase}} :''Note that '''shortstack''' is typically lowercased except, often, at the start of a sentence.'' Shortstack"
21:04:20 <esolangs> [[Shortstack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123481&oldid=123480 * Mmph * (+697)
21:07:10 <esolangs> [[Shortstack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123482&oldid=123481 * Mmph * (+571)
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21:15:42 <esolangs> [[Shortstack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123483&oldid=123482 * Mmph * (+1089)
21:16:22 <esolangs> [[Shortstack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123484&oldid=123483 * Mmph * (-1)
21:20:07 <esolangs> [[Shortstack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123485&oldid=123484 * Mmph * (+198)
21:20:43 <esolangs> [[Shortstack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123486&oldid=123485 * Mmph * (+68)
21:26:08 <esolangs> [[FatFinger]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123487&oldid=123447 * Rottytooth * (+134) /* External resources */
21:32:16 <esolangs> [[FatFinger]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123488&oldid=123487 * Rottytooth * (+23)
21:43:47 <esolangs> [[User:Mmph]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123489&oldid=122818 * Mmph * (+15)
21:43:59 <esolangs> [[User:Mmph]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=123490&oldid=123489 * Mmph * (+1)
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