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00:06:09 <Guest43> hello
00:12:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125142&oldid=125032 * Alidonis12 * (+165) /* Introductions */
00:12:40 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis12]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=125143 * Alidonis12 * (+85) Created my page
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00:14:41 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis12/sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=125144 * Alidonis12 * (+186) Created page with "This is my esolangs sandbox. Most of these will probably never see the light off day! {| class="wikitable" |+ Esolangs Sandbox Navigation |- ! Esolang !! Link |- | Example || Example |}"
00:15:36 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis12]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125145&oldid=125143 * Alidonis12 * (+21)
00:43:16 <esolangs> [[Looping counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125146&oldid=122898 * Cleverxia * (+162) /* Examples */
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00:57:52 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis12/sandbox/casm]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=125147 * Alidonis12 * (+1056) Created page with "'''Casm''' (pronounced /kzm/) is an esoteric programming language invented by ~~~ inspired by 6502 assembly and C. Casm uses 16-bit addresses. Therefore, it is only be able to address up to '64K' (65535) bytes of contiguous memory. However, data
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01:38:04 <zzo38> I do not like the example in the man page of the tsearch function. I would think that it should be better to use a static or stack allocation for the key, and then check if it matches and allocate dynamic memory if it does match, instead of to allocate and free memory every time
01:45:20 <b_jonas> HTTP/1.1 was invented only in 1996? I thought it was older than that.
01:45:47 <b_jonas> interesting
01:53:31 <b_jonas> apparently the idea of header lines in mail and news, with header name followed by colon followed by value, continuation lines starting with whitespace, and delimited from the body with an empty line, that's like really ancient, yet the idea of adding that to HTTP requests and responses had to be discovered
01:54:03 <b_jonas> also they had to invent reusing a TCP session for multiple requests and responses, even though SMTP has had that too for ages
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01:54:41 <b_jonas> I wonder why they complicated it with a status line that has a different format
01:54:52 <int-e> b_jonas: it more or less coincides with web hosting, and a lot of those relied on disambiguating hosts by domain name which HTTP/0.9 couldn't do.
01:55:12 <int-e> The status line may be from HTTP/0.9?
01:55:43 <b_jonas> I think HTTP/1.0 doesn't have the status line yet, but now I'm not sure
01:57:13 <b_jonas> also they introduced Transfer-Encoding: chunked which is a completely different delimiting mechanism from the one that SMTP had for marking the end of the message and the two that MIME had for delimiting parts in a multi-part email
01:57:19 <int-e> Oh HTTP/1.0 added the status. Hmm.
01:57:34 <b_jonas> oh did it?
01:57:35 <b_jonas> okay
01:58:35 <b_jonas> by the way, why is Transfer-Encoding get used for two entirely different things, as in chunked to find the end of the request/response body so that the TCP connection can be reused, and compression? shouldn't those two be orthogonal?
01:59:32 <int-e> Even though it's different, this may still be modelled on SMTP? Or FTP which also has numeric codes like that.
02:00:53 <b_jonas> yeah, the status codes are probaly based on something like that
02:01:15 <b_jonas> heck, IRC has three-digit error codes too
02:01:40 <int-e> You can combine the features, e.g. Transfer-Encoding: gzip, chunked
02:01:45 * int-e shrugs
02:03:14 <b_jonas> and I guess content-type and character encoding is combined in a header too
02:06:53 <b_jonas> incidentally, in the IRC protocol, how did the numeric command 005 get used for something completely different than originally specified, in a way that doesn't seem like a conservative extension. is it just because some irc clients died on unknown numeric replies, even ones that start with 0, and this one wasn't unknown?
02:10:43 <int-e> I don't know what you mean.
02:12:01 <b_jonas> RFC 2812 says that the 005 code is "Sent by the server to a user to suggest an alternative server. This is often used when the connection is refused because the server is already full."
02:12:49 <b_jonas> in comparison, real IRC servers including libera use it to tell about some of their server/network features to the clients in a machine-readable way, including the maximum lengths for channel name and nickanme
02:13:03 <b_jonas> and, most importantly, which of the two casefolding rules they use
02:14:15 <b_jonas> on libera you can even use the VERSION command to make the server resend it -- on some other servers that doesn't work, they only send it once at the start of a session
02:17:20 <int-e> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23144371/confusion-about-the-005-irc-numeric-and-general-rfc says the reason is social
02:18:15 <b_jonas> I see
02:18:57 <b_jonas> so probably 004 existed already, and two people independently decided to use 005 for conflicting thigngs
02:19:11 <b_jonas> it's not one established code reused for something else, it was the obvious number taken twice
02:19:14 <b_jonas> makes sense
02:19:27 <int-e> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-brocklesby-irc-isupport-03#section-4.4
02:19:40 <int-e> (following one of the links in that answer)
02:22:10 <b_jonas> this is why we should use 256-bit random codes instead of easy to conflict three-digit numbers, or xml namespaces that are based on domain name ownership even though domain name ownership is almost always temporary and has to be renewed with real money so it's a silly way to use for permanent namespacing
02:23:20 <b_jonas> but of course that was less appropriate back when IRC was young
02:23:26 <zzo38> Or use a name together with a timestamp (similar than how version 1 UUID is working)
02:30:15 <b_jonas> that reminds me of https://xkcd.com/865/
02:31:16 <fizzie> https://modern.ircdocs.horse/ is really the reference for the IRC protocol as it actually is implemented.
02:31:35 <fizzie> 005 being RPL_ISUPPORT there.
02:34:10 <b_jonas> fizzie: sure, the RFCs are very old
02:34:55 <b_jonas> it's just that when you have an old RFC then I expect all sorts of extensions which use new syntax rather than resuing one syntax for something else
02:35:25 <b_jonas> mind you, IRC has some weird syntax where the same command does different things depending on its parameters in a weird way:
02:36:18 <b_jonas> WHOIS, WHO, PING all have double duty depending on the number of arguments (though for WHO they're at least closely related),
02:36:41 <b_jonas> and MODE is overloded in way more complex ways
02:37:06 <b_jonas> there's a lot of historical cruft in this protocol
02:41:29 <zzo38> I still think IRC is working better than most of the more modern ones despite that though, even though it is not prefect. But there is the advantage of working without specialized software (even though a proper IRC client will generally be working better)
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03:53:14 <esolangs> [[Ifthen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125148&oldid=111597 * Cleverxia * (+26)
03:57:59 <esolangs> [[TREE(3)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125149&oldid=125122 * Cleverxia * (+378) /* Programs */
03:58:59 <esolangs> [[TREE(3)//]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=125150 * Cleverxia * (+1809) Created page with "..."
05:17:11 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125151&oldid=125121 * PrySigneToFry * (+38)
05:18:21 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125152&oldid=124706 * PrySigneToFry * (+23)
05:18:36 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125153&oldid=125152 * PrySigneToFry * (-38)
05:20:57 <esolangs> [[Dongbei]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125154&oldid=125091 * PrySigneToFry * (+48) /* See also */
05:23:51 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125155&oldid=124819 * PrySigneToFry * (+215)
05:24:22 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125156&oldid=125155 * PrySigneToFry * (-6) /* Syntax */
05:40:04 <esolangs> [[2/9 of an esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125157&oldid=125127 * PrySigneToFry * (+871)
06:25:08 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125158&oldid=124679 * PrySigneToFry * (-2)
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11:31:38 <b_jonas> fungot, why do "awful" and "awesome" have opposite meanings?
11:33:09 <int-e> awe "an emotion variously combining dread, veneration, and wonder that is inspired by authority or by the sacred or sublime"
11:33:53 <int-e> I mean, it's interesting that those two derived words separate the various causes to some extent.
11:34:08 <int-e> But "awe" itself covers both.
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13:40:37 <esolangs> [[APLWSI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125159&oldid=115846 * Joaozin003 * (-5) truer
13:53:39 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis12/sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125160&oldid=125144 * Alidonis12 * (+36)
13:53:45 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis12/sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125161&oldid=125160 * Alidonis12 * (-1)
13:54:40 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis12/sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125162&oldid=125161 * Alidonis12 * (+0) Fixed my link, for the 3rd time
14:48:13 <FireFly> clearly it's awful if it makes you go "aw" *nod*
14:49:35 <int-e> ow
14:49:56 * int-e hits FireFly with an owful pun.
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17:17:39 <esolangs> [[Threads]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125163&oldid=125139 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+36) Category
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21:11:09 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125164&oldid=113429 * Aartaka * (+144) Mention str.bf algorithmic library.
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