←2024-04-02 2024-04-03 2024-04-04→ ↑2024 ↑all
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02:44:53 <zzo38> I had partially made a static site generator, but with Scorpion instead of HTML.
03:20:12 <zzo38> (I don't actually know much about how to make a static site generator, but I will do and then we will see what it will do.)
04:21:42 <esolangs> [[Stringle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125796&oldid=125794 * Function call without parameters * (-118) /* Add two numeric values */
04:27:52 <esolangs> [[Stringle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125797&oldid=125796 * Function call without parameters * (-34) /* The * (pointer) operator */
04:58:09 <esolangs> [[Stringle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125798&oldid=125797 * Function call without parameters * (+700)
05:07:39 <esolangs> [[Stringle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125799&oldid=125798 * Function call without parameters * (-9) /* ROT-13 encoder/decoder */
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11:30:33 <wib_jonas> huh, so mozilla made https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Gecko_DOM_Reference a broken link now, and the HTML DOM reference is at https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Document_Object_Model
12:09:13 <esolangs> [[Impossible.bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125800&oldid=102909 * Cleverxia * (+121) categories?
12:14:26 <wib_jonas> while we're there, I have a question. is there some way in the HTML DOM for a webpage to read your timezone directly, or do they have to like localtime multiple timestamps to figure out which DST rules are in effect?
12:18:12 <int-e> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13/determine-a-users-timezone/22625076#22625076
12:36:26 <wib_jonas> int-e: thank you
12:53:28 <int-e> "We're sorry but the CVE Website doesn't work properly without JavaScript enabled. Please enable it to continue."
12:53:37 <int-e> Of all people...
12:54:11 <int-e> (I'll get it from NVD then, thanks.)
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13:52:16 <esolangs> [[12345678]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=125801 * None1 * (+420) Created page with "'''12345678''' is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]] when he noticed that he didn't invent many Chinese brainfuck equivalents, also because he encountered one of his own brainfuck equivalents by random page. ==Commands== The commands: represent: +-<>,.[] in [[brainf
13:55:08 <esolangs> [[12345678]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125802&oldid=125801 * None1 * (+944) /* Example programs */
13:55:53 <esolangs> [[12345678]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125803&oldid=125802 * None1 * (+1020) /* Example programs */
13:56:20 <esolangs> [[12345678]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125804&oldid=125803 * None1 * (-919) /* Interpreter in Python */
13:57:04 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125805&oldid=125670 * None1 * (+15) /* Non-alphabetic */
13:57:56 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125806&oldid=125607 * None1 * (+39) /* My Esolangs */
13:58:19 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125807&oldid=125806 * None1 * (+0) /* My Esolangs */
13:59:23 <esolangs> [[SetGoto]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125808&oldid=99898 * None1 * (+2)
14:43:29 <esolangs> [[Get there]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125809&oldid=125778 * Yayimhere * (+103)
14:44:43 <esolangs> [[Get there]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125810&oldid=125809 * Yayimhere * (-36)
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15:24:55 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=125811 * Yayimhere * (+62) Created page with "hello. im yayimhere. i have created one esolang: [[get there]]"
15:35:37 <sknebel> https://mastodon.social/@TartanLlama/112207900349948701
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15:36:07 <sknebel> https://github.com/TartanLlama/dwarbf "A Brainfuck interpreter written in DWARF debug information"
16:10:26 <fizzie> Missed chance to call it BWARF, which could have been more in line with the reaction of people encountering it.
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16:16:20 <int-e> Why does that remind me of Spaceballs?
16:16:55 <int-e> (They have a character called Barf)
16:17:23 <int-e> (Which they /could/ have spelled differently but didn't.)
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16:49:14 <wib_jonas> this draft https://www.w3.org/TR/css-conditional-3/ specifies a way that CSS stylesheets can include conditionals depending on whether the browser supports a CSS feature. theoretically useful, since CSS keeps growing infinitely, though of course practical uses will only come up five years into the future. it doesn't seem like it makes CSS alone
16:49:15 <wib_jonas> turing-complete yet, but who knows. however,
16:50:43 <wib_jonas> I'll have to test this, but I think this might finally give us a way to write a HTML that uses MathML conditionally in browsers that support it, but display fallback HTML in other browsers. that was what I was missing from MathML, no easy way to embed a fallback, which means you don't want to use MathML in practice unless the user explicitly
16:50:44 <wib_jonas> requests it.
16:52:29 <wib_jonas> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@supports is the docs on MDN for this feature
16:53:28 <wib_jonas> nice. I'll have to try this at some point, trying to write a HTML+CSS that displays a formula as fallback HTML normally, but tries to conditionally replace it with MathML if some MathML CSS property is supported
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17:49:02 <zzo38> I think that HTML and CSS is too messy. So, they have to change it to make it even more messy to fix it and that does not even work very well either. (Designing browsers for better user control would also be an improvement, though.) (And, I don't know if it is Turing-complete yet.)
17:54:20 <zzo38> I didn't know they made brainfuck with DWARF but now I can see that they can.
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18:38:01 <b_jonas> zzo38: certainly this is a kludge, MathML in first place should have been defined in a way that allows graceful fallback for browsers that don't support it.
19:02:23 <zzo38> Yes, that would have helped
19:07:23 <zzo38> People who wanted to make less messy have made other protocols and file formats, and in some cases different kind of subsets of HTTP and HTML (although I have also seen one that uses HTTP with an extra header).
19:11:39 <zzo38> Such as Gemini, although there are some criticisms such as mandatory TLS (I think it should be optional), etc. They also wanted to make it non-extensible, but my opinion is that the non-extensibility does not actually work; there are many ways to add extensions anyways (e.g. in the X.509 certificate) and it cannot really be prevented.
19:13:49 <b_jonas> I like it when protocols and formats are extensible in a way that lets old clients fall back. HTTP and HTML has a lot of extensions of this sort already. I can support just whatever subset of HTTP (whether as a client or server) as I want and it will work, then later add support for more. Same for HTML. MathML was just designed stupidly in this respect.
19:15:36 <b_jonas> If you don't design something extensible then people will just invent non-backwards-compatible extensions or replacements for it, so it's a bad strategy.
19:16:49 <zzo38> Yes, it is what I thought too
19:18:04 <zzo38> Also, most of these formats seem to have been designed to do a subset of the features of WWW, and do not really have any extra stuff (although Gemini allows for client certificates; while this is possible with WWW, this is uncommon and it seems to work better in Gemini).
19:19:43 <zzo38> (Scorpion does do a few things that WWW doesn't have, such as the possibility of mixed character sets (something that I think was added to HTML+ but was abandoned), TRON character code, and the conversion file.)
19:27:00 <b_jonas> what does "mixed character sets" mean?
19:27:24 <b_jonas> in HTML, how that works is that you can use ampersand entities to use characters that aren't in the source encoding of HTML
19:27:33 <b_jonas> but I'm not sure if that counts as "mixed character sets"
19:28:04 <zzo38> You can, but that only works for Unicode characters.
19:30:28 <b_jonas> no, that works for any character that has a named ampersand entity, such as &aacute;, and I think named ampersand entities are older than unicode
19:31:53 <b_jonas> of course later all the characters that browsers typically supported as ampersand entities (the list wasn't quite standardized across browsers) got added to unicode as characters
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19:33:31 <zzo38> I think HTML+ allowed each element to have an optional "charset" attribute
19:35:32 <zzo38> I am not sure that named ampersand entities are older than Unicode, although that probably doesn't matter much anyways since they may have been made independently.
19:38:01 <zzo38> I also have defined the "hashed:" URI scheme (although it is independent of the protocol)
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19:38:49 <b_jonas> maybe it's not older than unicode, but I think there were browsers that support named character entities but not unicode. some named character entities are practically required for HTML, so that you can escape ampersands and less-than signs and double quotes.
19:39:29 <b_jonas> though admittedly ampersands, less-than signs, and double quotes clearly always were unicode characters
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19:43:07 <zzo38> Yes. That is what I meant that they may be independent, that they could work independently. Well, some of them work independently (and some don't work at all). Of course the possibility to escape certain characters is necessary anyways, but that is because they are ASCII characters rather than Unicode. Of course they are Unicode characters, but that is because Unicode is a superset of ASCII.
19:47:09 <zzo38> However, I think that the conversion file is a better way to handle the use of different file formats, etc, which can allow better user control, etc, than the way of using polyfills with WWW which have no way of indicating the use of polyfills in a compatible way, etc
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19:56:18 <zzo38> (The specification is not complete and could be improved, but it does allow for a few things, such as supporting unknown file formats (which is something that WWW doesn't support, actually).)
20:49:44 <esolangs> [[Stringle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125812&oldid=125799 * Function call without parameters * (+450) /* Predicates */
20:51:56 <esolangs> [[Stringle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125813&oldid=125812 * Function call without parameters * (+267) /* loop while (1 word) */
21:24:10 <esolangs> [[Stringle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125814&oldid=125813 * Function call without parameters * (-2) /* FizzBuzz */
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21:54:16 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Z Z * moved [[Array++]] to [[ObjectFlux]]: Language Renamed
21:55:38 <esolangs> [[ObjectFlux]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125817&oldid=125815 * Z Z * (+21) Noted that work is in progress
21:56:44 <esolangs> [[ObjectFlux]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125818&oldid=125817 * Z Z * (+12) Updated names
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