←2024-04-03 2024-04-04 2024-04-05→ ↑2024 ↑all
02:35:57 <esolangs> [[12345678]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125819&oldid=125804 * None1 * (+344) /* Example programs */
02:37:05 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=125820 * None1 * (+22) Redirected page to [[12345678]]
02:39:39 <esolangs> [[12345678]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125821&oldid=125819 * None1 * (+1364) /* Example programs */
02:40:54 <esolangs> [[12345678]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125822&oldid=125821 * None1 * (+380) /* Kolakoski sequence */
02:44:01 <esolangs> [[Talk:Hanzifuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125823&oldid=125795 * None1 * (+179) /* Responses from Chinese people (if any) */
02:44:10 <esolangs> [[Talk:Hanzifuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125824&oldid=125823 * None1 * (-1) /* Responses from Chinese people (if any) */
03:55:52 <esolangs> [[Betamation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125825&oldid=81313 * Cleverxia * (+47)
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06:58:57 <shachaf> `? device
06:59:00 <HackEso> A device is a browser session. Please verify your device.
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07:48:57 <esolangs> [[0widthnonjoiner]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125826&oldid=125239 * PrySigneToFry * (+49)
09:06:03 <esolangs> [[FizzBuzz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125827&oldid=125577 * Cleverxia * (-3) /* wenyan */
09:24:31 <esolangs> [[Template:Horribly Translated Page]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=125828 * MihaiEso * (+102) Created page with ":'''''I horribly translated this page just for the heck of it. The original version is at {{{1}}}'''''"
09:30:12 <esolangs> [[Translated CSharp/Horribly Translated Page]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=125829 * MihaiEso * (+2523) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=Translated C#/Horribly Translated Page}} :{{Horribly Translated Page|[[Translated CSharp]]}} Esolang is produced by Mikhai Popa. It is Cofin, but the translation of Baidu+Go+Yandex+Papago+Microsoft is terrible (but
09:30:35 <esolangs> [[Translated CSharp/Horribly Translated Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125830&oldid=125829 * MihaiEso * (-1)
09:31:51 <esolangs> [[Template:Horribly Translated Version Available]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=125831 * MihaiEso * (+93) Created page with ":'''''I horribly translated this page just for the heck of it. Go, check it out! {{{1}}}'''''"
09:37:22 <esolangs> [[Arch is the best!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125832&oldid=102772 * Cleverxia * (+58)
09:38:23 <esolangs> [[Translated CSharp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125833&oldid=123954 * MihaiEso * (+89)
09:39:45 <esolangs> [[User:Tokigun]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125834&oldid=23970 * Tokigun * (+39) Time to get rid of some dust
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09:40:23 <esolangs> [[Permission denied]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125835&oldid=125685 * Cleverxia * (+229) /* Implementations */
09:43:17 <esolangs> [[User:Tokigun]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125836&oldid=125834 * Tokigun * (+114)
09:46:47 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125837&oldid=125652 * Tokigun * (+81) Update a link to esotope-bfc and add 140-byte C impl, which got very popular since 2020 and therefore can be considered notable enough
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10:56:28 <esolangs> [[HuePrism]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125838&oldid=122637 * DolphyWind * (+1) Convert "a" to "an"
10:59:14 <wib_jonas> I was wondering why bank payment cards use a CVC2 code rather than just a card number longer than 12 digits. The typical 12 digit long number seems way too short to me, because you can usually guess the first 6 to 8 digits from the issuing bank and card type, and the last 4 digits are public to the payee and are printed on receipts that you often
10:59:15 <wib_jonas> throw away, plus there's a check digit, so that only leaves 3 to 5 secret digits in the bank card number plus 3 digits in the CVC2 code.
10:59:17 <wib_jonas> One possible explanation is that on some cards, the CVC2 code is printed on the back while the card number is on the front, which makes snooping harder, but that can't be the full story.
11:00:02 <wib_jonas> (Technically there's also an expiry date, but that's also public to the payee, has very low entropy, and the entropy usually isn't re-seeded when the card is replaced.)
11:01:51 <wib_jonas> So anyway, I think part of the explanation is that gyro bank account numbers in Hungary are often 16 digits long (though some are 24 digits long instead). If you made the card number longer then it would look too similar to a bank account number, which is dangerous, because the two have different roles and privacy requirements, so it might make
11:01:51 <wib_jonas> people confuse the two and accidentally reveal card numbers when they shouldn't. A 12-digit bank card number plus a separate field for the 3-digit CVC2 code makes such an accidental confusion harder.
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11:55:14 <fizzie> Credit card numbers are 16 digits, and I feel like that used to be the case in Finland for bank payment cards as well, though it's been a long while since I've seen one, they got pretty much deprecated by debit cards carrying credit card brands (VISA, MasterCard) and using similar numbers.
11:56:09 <fizzie> There's also a lot of combined credit/debit cards, which I feel like isn't universal, because if you try to use them abroad it seems very hit-and-miss whether you actually get to pick which (metaphorical) side of the card to use.
11:57:02 <int-e> hehe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocheque has a sample with 10 digit card number
11:59:55 <int-e> (Which doesn't mean much; the field could well be variable width at the time.)
12:00:59 <wib_jonas> uh... yeah, I messed up something big time there with the numbers
12:01:43 <wib_jonas> bank card numbers are usually 16 digit long, so the part about not confusing with 16 digit (or 24 digit) gyro bank account numbers makes no sense
12:01:45 <wib_jonas> oops
12:01:48 <wib_jonas> I confused myself somehow
12:01:58 <int-e> Anyway I'm destroying expired cards so I couldn't tell you how long the card numbers that I've had were.
12:03:10 <int-e> even that memory is fading quickly to be replaced by 20 places IBANs
12:03:15 <wib_jonas> the 16 digit card number and 3 digit CVC2 number applies to both debit cards and credit cards, which is why I didn't try to make a distinction above
12:04:00 <esolangs> [[Wenyan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125839&oldid=121128 * Cleverxia * (+4082)
12:04:16 <wib_jonas> the card number field *is* variable length, and the internet payment providers do allow me to enter more than 16 digits in their card number field
12:04:20 <esolangs> [[Wenyan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125840&oldid=125839 * Cleverxia * (+2) /* Code Samples */
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12:55:27 <fizzie> At least some bank account numbers in Finland got 0's added when they were IBANified from the variable-length XXX-YYY form. Not always in easily predictable locations either.
12:56:03 <fizzie> Some of my cards have gone portrait mode recently, and I wonder if that's because that's the orientation you hold a smartphone in most of the time.
12:57:19 <fizzie> https://www.s-pankki.fi/globalassets/media/800x500-kuvat/kortit/uusi/uusi-s-etukortti-visa-credit.jpg <- the way they did the 16-digit number on this one is kinda weird to me.
13:19:05 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125841&oldid=125766 * Cleverxia * (+447)
13:22:09 <wib_jonas> fizzie: IIUC the optional 00000000 suffix to pad 16-digit bank account numbers to 24 digit ones is allowed here as well, you can just append the suffix and the transfer still works
13:23:01 <wib_jonas> the optional zeroes go to the end of the gyro account number, and the IBAN number is made by prepending something that depends on the bank before the gyro number
13:23:45 <wib_jonas> the zeroes suffix might be mandatory for the IBAN number, I'm not sure
13:24:14 <wib_jonas> ok, so Just Now I Learned about Excel:
13:25:39 <wib_jonas> I load a CSV using a query. The automatic type detection doesn't detect some columns as numbers. That's fine, I manually change the types. Then the query preview shows that it converted text to number in cells where the text doesn't have a decimal point, but got a conversion error where it does have a decimal point. I did such conversions lots of
13:25:39 <wib_jonas> times and it always used to work. what's wrong?
13:25:43 <int-e> wib_jonas: why do you keep misspelling giro?
13:26:58 <int-e> (this is a bit funny because both giro and the gyro- prefix have the same latin root)
13:27:19 <int-e> naming different round things
13:27:27 <wib_jonas> Answer: this Excel sheet is copied from a windows system where the locale was set to one that uses comma as a decimal point, and there's a hidden per-workbook setting that stores that locale, and you can change this setting not in the excel settings dialog, but in the power query settings which you access from the File menu of the power query
13:27:28 <wib_jonas> editor window, so
13:27:50 <int-e> and/or greek
13:28:45 <wib_jonas> power query editor / File / Options and settings / Query options / Current workbook / Regional settings / Locale and there choose "English (United States)", and then the text to number conversion will recognize the period as a decimal point
13:29:09 <wib_jonas> I found the answer from https://www.myonlinetraininghub.com/excel-forum/power-query/change-data-format-to-decimal-number , but even after that I had some difficult location where this setting was
13:29:39 <wib_jonas> you can also override this per column conversion if you want, but I always use period as decimal point in all files so that would have been less convenient
13:30:13 <wib_jonas> int-e: probably because I don't see that word often because I don't work in finance, forms just say "bank account number" without qualification, so I rarely see it written
13:39:10 <esolangs> [[Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125842&oldid=124047 * Cleverxia * (+1020) /* Implementations (?) */
13:52:26 <esolangs> [[Maintain A Dog Through Coding]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125843&oldid=111478 * Fly * (-1)
13:58:46 <fizzie> I know at least one Finnish bank which padded their "xxxxxx-yyyyyy" local bank account numbers to "xxxxxx-y00yyyyy" (i.e., putting the 0s *inside* the yyyyyy part), when standardizing account number lengths in preparation for making an "FIcc xxxx xxy0 0yyy yy" IBAN. (All Finnish IBANs have the same structure: "FI" + two-digit checksum + 14-digit account number.)
14:00:46 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Bank_Account_Number#Structure ...wait, up to *30* alphanumeric characters? Woah.
14:04:14 <int-e> (Well, it's an upper bound; I wonder whether any country actually uses all those places.)
14:08:08 <int-e> Oh there's another table for that... Russia uses 29 (33 total)
14:08:44 <int-e> with a 9 digit bank code, a 5 digit branch code and 15 for the account number...
14:10:37 <int-e> (that allows for a lot of banks!)
14:29:30 <fizzie> In the "National check digits" table, we're the only one with a Luhn algorithm checksum.
14:34:12 <fizzie> Funny how UK puts in both the BIC bank code and the local "sort code" that also implies the bank (and branch).
14:34:49 <int-e> supporting legacy workflows
14:36:02 <wib_jonas> int-e: 30 sounds plausible, because it's (at least sometimes) made of a four character prefix followed by the 24 digit long giro bank account number, making 28 characters
14:37:18 <int-e> wib_jonas: the 30 excludes the 4 place CC+checksum prefix
14:37:29 <wib_jonas> oh
14:37:40 <wib_jonas> well okay, but still it's not too high a limit I think
14:38:07 <int-e> Right. And Russia actually uses most of it... though it doesn't look like they had any need to.
14:38:46 <wib_jonas> especially since adopting something like this for banking takes decades, so you don't want to have to change the format often
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14:55:04 <esolangs> [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125844&oldid=124212 * PrySigneToFry * (+268)
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15:03:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125845&oldid=125844 * PrySigneToFry * (+380)
15:10:12 <int-e> Far be it from me to make light of resistance. - (not) Edison
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18:51:50 <esolangs> [[ObjectFlux]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125846&oldid=125818 * Z Z * (-156) changing logic
19:11:07 <esolangs> [[BinaryBits]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=125847 * EvyLah * (+674) Created page with "'''BinaryBits''' (or BB) is a language where everything is in binary. BB was created by [[User:EvyLah|User:Evylah]] for no particular reason. == Overview == Instructions, data, and everything else are all in binary. BB is designed for an 8-bit computer. == Data struc
19:11:46 <esolangs> [[ObjectFlux]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125848&oldid=125846 * Z Z * (+202) /* Main */ changed descriptions
19:16:27 <esolangs> [[ObjectFlux]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125849&oldid=125848 * Z Z * (-159) fixing descriptions
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19:30:52 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125850&oldid=125837 * Aartaka * (+103) /* Compilers */ Mention Sade, Brainfuck compiler.
19:34:32 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125851&oldid=125850 * Aartaka * (+126) /* Interpreters in plain C */ Mention Reb, C-based interpreter.
19:56:57 <esolangs> [[ObjectFlux]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=125852&oldid=125849 * Z Z * (-2) /* Reserved symbols */
20:22:00 <zzo38> I had made up a format for unique identifiers, involving four parts: time, type, name, extra. (The extra part is optional) It can use the characters of the set: 0123456789-.ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
20:57:59 <Swryl> Are there practical methods of writing cyclic tag system programs, or any articles for grasping the intuition for writing them?
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22:27:09 <zzo38> I don't know of any.
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←2024-04-03 2024-04-04 2024-04-05→ ↑2024 ↑all