←2024-05-13 2024-05-14 2024-05-15→ ↑2024 ↑all
00:13:08 <esolangs> [[Xenon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127918&oldid=127912 * RhubarbJayde * (+1264)
00:29:55 <esolangs> [[Translation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127919&oldid=127916 * Joe * (+236)
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01:17:43 <esolangs> [[Translation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127920&oldid=127919 * Joe * (+418)
01:23:24 <esolangs> [[Translation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127921&oldid=127920 * Joe * (+261)
01:26:36 <esolangs> [[Translation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127922&oldid=127921 * Joe * (+420)
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01:28:08 <esolangs> [[Translation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127923&oldid=127922 * Joe * (+122)
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01:44:01 <esolangs> [[Translation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127924&oldid=127923 * Joe * (+30)
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07:32:53 <esolangs> [[Translated Batch (Mihai Popa)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127925 * MihaiEso * (+5043) Created page with "'''Translated Batch''' is an esolang made by Mihai Popa. It's Batch but horribly translated by ModernMT (however you can add more or choose a another pair of translators for an even more horrible translation!) See the PrySigneToFry version at: [[T
07:34:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * MihaiEso * moved [[Translated Batch (Mihai Popa)]] to [[Translated Batch/Mihai Popa]]
07:34:41 <esolangs> [[Translated Batch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127928&oldid=127895 * MihaiEso * (+132)
07:34:49 <esolangs> [[Translated Batch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127929&oldid=127928 * MihaiEso * (+1)
07:34:57 <esolangs> [[Translated Batch/Mihai Popa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127930&oldid=127926 * MihaiEso * (+1)
07:37:03 <esolangs> [[Template:PrySigneToFry Version]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127931 * MihaiEso * (+47) Created page with "'''See the PrySigneToFry version at: {{{1}}}'''"
07:37:26 <esolangs> [[Template:PrySigneToFry Version]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127932&oldid=127931 * MihaiEso * (+4) Better
07:38:13 <esolangs> [[Translated Batch/Mihai Popa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127933&oldid=127930 * MihaiEso * (-10) Used a template!
07:38:43 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * MihaiEso * moved [[Template:PrySigneToFry Version]] to [[Template:PrySigneToFry's Version]]: Better Grammar
07:40:17 <esolangs> [[Template:MihaiEso's Version]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127936 * MihaiEso * (+84) Created page with "'''Remember that this is the PrySigneToFry version. My version is at: [[{{{1}}}]]'''"
07:40:42 <esolangs> [[Translated Batch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127937&oldid=127929 * MihaiEso * (-48) Used a template!
07:41:08 <esolangs> [[Translated Python/Mihai Popa]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127938 * MihaiEso * (+2609) Created page with "'''Translated Python''' is a esolang made by Mihai Popa. It's Python but horribly translated by Baidu+Google Translate+Yandex+Papago+Microsoft (however you can add more or choose a another pair of translators for a even more horrible translation!)
07:42:13 <esolangs> [[Translated Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127939&oldid=127891 * MihaiEso * (+53)
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09:19:58 <wib_jonas> another day, another SMBC strip suspiciously similar to an xkcd strip: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/new-word https://xkcd.com/326/
09:21:18 <wib_jonas> also airplane ticket selling sites still say "enter your name exactly as it's written on your travel document" even though the website rejects if you actually try to follow that. I think the website makers know that but they're using that instruction anyway for liability reasons.
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09:51:10 <esolangs> [[Translation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127940&oldid=127924 * None1 * (+5) Name should be the name of the esolang
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11:11:58 <esolangs> [[Talk:Nanofunge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127941 * None1 * (+186) Created page with "I don't get it, what does the four numbers <code>5 5 3 3</code> at the beggining of the Nanofunge program mean? --~~~~"
11:31:43 <esolangs> [[Xenon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127942&oldid=127918 * RhubarbJayde * (+708)
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11:43:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:Nanofunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127943&oldid=127941 * Int-e * (+352) relate to Nopfunge
12:06:33 <esolangs> [[User:None1/BF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127944&oldid=115958 * None1 * (+1329)
12:06:47 <esolangs> [[User:None1/BF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127945&oldid=127944 * None1 * (+7) /* Random number generator */
12:10:30 <esolangs> [[User:None1/BF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127946&oldid=127945 * None1 * (+54) /* Random number generator */
12:12:52 <esolangs> [[Talk:Nanofunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127947&oldid=127943 * None1 * (+72)
12:13:07 <esolangs> [[Talk:Nanofunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127948&oldid=127947 * None1 * (+12)
12:14:51 <esolangs> [[Yoctofunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127949&oldid=127914 * None1 * (-1) /* Computational class */
12:30:55 <esolangs> [[Xenon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127950&oldid=127942 * RhubarbJayde * (+1931)
12:43:41 <esolangs> [[Xenon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127951&oldid=127950 * RhubarbJayde * (+27)
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13:34:46 <esolangs> [[Xenon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127952&oldid=127951 * RhubarbJayde * (+834)
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14:09:07 <esolangs> [[DQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127953&oldid=127695 * Yayimhere * (+0) /* esolang overview */
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14:32:22 <esolangs> [[Translated Batch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127954&oldid=127937 * PrySigneToFry * (+112)
14:35:11 <esolangs> [[Translated Batch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127955&oldid=127954 * PrySigneToFry * (+44)
15:02:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bottles of beer on the wall]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127956 * Ractangle * (+3864) Created page with ""24900171313599407832425897376933679165362459398445696363073193628257649948866889545810849988015733095641019671881223802824461864094471296654034775611865127422980097344 04410431535280920585529925111845047848919686325627491135409490162639503603
15:02:48 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bottles of beer on the wall]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127957&oldid=127956 * Ractangle * (+118)
15:03:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bottles of beer on the wall]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127958&oldid=127957 * Ractangle * (+2)
15:11:35 <esolangs> [[BracketsLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127959&oldid=88622 * Ractangle * (+3) *What do the brackets do
15:12:48 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127960&oldid=127906 * Ractangle * (+76)
15:13:41 <esolangs> [[Xenon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127961&oldid=127952 * RhubarbJayde * (+28)
15:24:38 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127962&oldid=127805 * The8thsea * (+10) /* 1 < 0 */
16:10:54 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127963 * Purah126 * (+814) Created page with "Gen Alpha is a programming language created by [[User:Purah126]]. Programs in it are lists of things that gen alpha people would say. They are run in a simulated community of gen alpha children. {{infobox proglang |name=Gen Alpha |paradigms=declarative, imperative |a
16:11:06 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127964&oldid=127963 * Purah126 * (+3)
16:22:19 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127965&oldid=127964 * Purah126 * (+1545)
16:23:36 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127966&oldid=127965 * Purah126 * (+102)
16:26:43 <esolangs> [[User:Purah126]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127967&oldid=107742 * Purah126 * (+40)
16:29:23 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127968&oldid=127966 * Purah126 * (+9)
16:33:09 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127969&oldid=127968 * Purah126 * (+21)
16:33:41 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127970&oldid=127969 * Purah126 * (+37)
16:34:04 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127971&oldid=127970 * Purah126 * (+26)
16:37:45 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127972&oldid=127971 * Purah126 * (+201)
16:40:12 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127973&oldid=127972 * Purah126 * (+103)
16:53:26 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127974&oldid=127973 * Purah126 * (+1493)
16:53:57 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127975&oldid=127974 * Purah126 * (+104)
16:56:36 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127976&oldid=127975 * Purah126 * (+16)
16:59:15 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127977&oldid=127976 * Purah126 * (+250)
17:01:17 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127978&oldid=127977 * Purah126 * (-15)
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17:06:47 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127979&oldid=127978 * Purah126 * (+119)
17:20:09 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127980&oldid=127979 * Purah126 * (+6)
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20:30:21 <zzo38> Is there a public backup for permanent files (which can also be mirrored)? I would think how it would work is that each collection has a set of blobs each with a time stamp associated with it; existing records cannot be altered or deleted but new records can be added to an existing collection. (The timestamp may be helpful to recover from some kinds of compromised security)
20:53:25 <int-e> hmpf another shapez puzzle where I don't know whether I'm missing something (here's one attempt: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-red-white-star-attempt.png ) or whether it has to be cheesed (https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-red-white-star-cheese.png )... there are no splitters and no garbage disposals so the usual way of exploiting the rotational symmetry doesn't work.
20:54:42 <int-e> zzo38: github (yeah I know that's not really checking all the boxes)
20:59:31 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127981&oldid=127980 * Purah126 * (+6)
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21:29:05 <b_jonas> int-e: are those rotators for buffering extra items?
21:37:03 <esolangs> [[Xenon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127982&oldid=127961 * RhubarbJayde * (+190)
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22:00:30 <esolangs> [[Greguov-Korec universal Minsky machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127983&oldid=127850 * Stkptr * (+4512) Add some stuff on the machine
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22:11:52 <int-e> b_jonas: yes
22:12:35 <int-e> b_jonas: and there's some editing and clearing items to the left to fill them (alternating between the shown picture and a variant with a painter)
22:13:40 <int-e> I mean I suspect I'm missing something but it's impossible to say for sure and I *have* seen puzzles that rely on shenanigans like this.
22:14:54 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127984&oldid=127981 * Stkptr * (+88) Add categories
22:16:07 <esolangs> [[Gen Alpha]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127985&oldid=127984 * Stkptr * (-11) Formatting
22:18:21 <b_jonas> right
22:22:30 <fizzie> Aw. We expanded the Gemini API (that I mentioned I was thinking of trying as an wiki question/answer chatbot) into UK (and EEA+CH) today, but it's only the paid tier, not the free one. :/
22:22:50 <fizzie> I'm sure it's got to do with some laws somewhere, but it's still a sad.
22:38:13 <int-e> b_jonas: Aha, I solved it properly.
22:42:13 <int-e> b_jonas: so it was mostly the matter of taking a break and looking at things with a fresh(er) eye: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-red-white-star-solution.png
22:52:11 <b_jonas> int-e: good to know. this channel likes SAT solvers so I'm half-expecting you to eventually use one to automate finding non-cheese solutions.
22:52:24 <b_jonas> or static solutions rather
22:52:51 <int-e> honestly... it's too tedious too encode
22:53:36 <b_jonas> indeed that cut in the top part of the solution is tricky
22:54:32 <b_jonas> isn't it supposed to be tedious in a way that computers are good at?
22:55:09 <int-e> you actually have to encode the shape computations as boolean formulas
22:55:13 <b_jonas> but yeah, I'm not sure you can encode it nicely enough for a SAT solver to understand
22:56:36 <b_jonas> kind of, though you could perhaps do a pre-encode pass where you guess all the few hundred shapes that you can get from the inputs in a few steps and are plausibly useful for a solution, and then encode only those
22:56:41 <int-e> Plus, half of the puzzles use the double painter trick to effectively get a limited type of merger, and at that point it gets messy (you have more than one shape per belt). Oh and quite a few puzzles actually play with the throughput.
22:57:10 <b_jonas> it might not work on all puzzles of course
22:57:27 <b_jonas> double painter for limited merger, accepting only balanced input... yes, that could be a problem
22:57:34 <int-e> yeah that kind of preprocessing is a good idea
22:59:43 <int-e> especially since that's how I mostly do these as a human... look for recipes first and then try to fit in the required buildings
23:00:09 <int-e> which can of course create blind spots :)
23:30:18 <esolangs> [[Bottles of beer on the wall]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127986&oldid=127731 * None1 * (+12) /* Hello World */
23:30:47 <int-e> b_jonas: I *have* contemplated making a solver for this but I think you need heavy heuristics for the search space not to explode. Which isn't my kind of fun.
23:30:55 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bottles of beer on the wall]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127987&oldid=127958 * None1 * (+106)
23:34:32 <b_jonas> int-e: yeah, that's why I was thinking of SAT solvers. it's their kind of fun.
23:34:56 <int-e> up to a point
23:35:31 <int-e> I don't know. Most of the actual puzzles are fun brain teasers, made by humans for humans :)
23:35:34 <b_jonas> but admittedly I'm also not a SAT solver guy and when I don't feel completely burned out from work I want to write very different programs than this kind
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23:38:30 <int-e> I guess I am a SAT guy, but there are constraints that are fun to express and constraints that are tedious... the kind of propagation of shapes through dynamically chosen paths and processors isn't the fun kind.
23:41:49 <int-e> If you remember the reduction from NP to SAT you have new variables after each step of the original Turing Machine... more or less the same kind of thing would be necessary for the shape propagation.
23:44:14 <int-e> And IME SAT solvers aren't particularly good at making sense of such encodings either; the dependencies tend to become too deep, and not very amenable to the "if that and that and that other thing, then this" kind of learned fact that CDCL (conflict-driven clause learning) can capture.
23:44:23 <b_jonas> ... I don't understand. if you limit yourself to no mergers (not even with a balancer or double painter) then isn't this an NP problem, at least if you make the input as long as there are free tiles to build on in the puzzle?
23:44:43 <int-e> It is NP, yes.
23:46:02 <b_jonas> "aren't particularly good at making sense of such encodings" => is that when people are trying to write them in an adverserial way to make hard problems to evaluate which SAT solvers are the best at them, or also when they try to write them in a way that's as easy as possible for the SAT solver?
23:46:14 <int-e> But SAT solvers don't automatically make NP easy. They're good at a great number of instances of NP-complete problems. But keep in mind that the underlying reductions can make problems significantly bigger.
23:46:41 <int-e> Like n steps in a TM become n^2 variables, give or take.
23:47:36 <b_jonas> sure
23:47:37 <int-e> And as far as I can see the shapez puzzles are closer to a TM than to a graph problem.
23:48:18 <int-e> I may be wrong about that.
23:50:10 <int-e> I guess you can annotate each interface between buildings with a shape and that'll take care of most things. Plus an acyclicity constraint. Plus a liveness constraint of sorts if you have splitters.
23:51:24 <b_jonas> technically the acyclicity constraint is also one you only need if you have splitters, but it might help simplify the problem anyway
23:51:36 <b_jonas> since you don't have mergers I mean
23:51:36 <int-e> (imagine a cutter, with one output split, and then two mergers; the result will starve)
23:52:03 <b_jonas> wait, if you want mergers then everything I said goes out of the window, and I can easily believe that it's a really hard probelm
23:52:28 <int-e> I mean stackers
23:52:31 <int-e> sorry, too late
23:52:48 <int-e> (stackers merge shapes)
23:52:52 <b_jonas> hmm
23:53:23 <b_jonas> yeah, you have a point
23:53:45 <b_jonas> the solution could lock up if you make it unbalanced then merge with stackers
23:55:32 <int-e> b_jonas: a picture is probably clearer: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-starve.png
23:55:43 <int-e> but I think you got what I meant
23:55:53 <b_jonas> yeah
23:56:26 <b_jonas> that's not even the only kind of starve you can get, but yes, you can get starves
23:58:05 <b_jonas> though you could hope that the puzzles are simple enough that you won't get false solutions if you allow starves, or at least you can encode a limited partial starve detection and won't get any false solution that that allows
23:58:50 <b_jonas> I know it's not guaranteed, and may depend on the style of puzzle
23:59:12 <int-e> and relatedly, if you only annotate interfaces with shapes, this construction could consistently produce any shape: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-source.png
←2024-05-13 2024-05-14 2024-05-15→ ↑2024 ↑all