00:04:00 -!- mtm has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:06:09 -!- mtm has joined.
00:12:48 -!- X-Scale has joined.
00:40:19 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement).
01:32:45 <esolangs> [[Talk:By+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138820 * Ais523 * (+396) /* Implementation */ new section
02:11:16 -!- X-Scale has quit (Quit: Client closed).
02:19:29 -!- X-Scale has joined.
02:27:07 <esolangs> [[Final Word Of The Day/PkmnQ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138821 * PkmnQ * (+2025) Created page with "This is [[User:PkmnQ]]'s solution to [[Final Word Of The Day]]. == Execution == The program stores data in named miniprograms, which can be edited and ran inside the main program. All miniprograms start empty. At the beginning of the program, the inpu
03:00:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
03:31:19 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
03:31:32 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
03:32:41 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
03:34:09 -!- X-Scale has quit (Quit: Client closed).
03:35:38 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[Gora]] to [[-(anor)]]
03:38:13 <esolangs> [[-(anor)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138824&oldid=138822 * Ractangle * (-767)
03:38:25 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[-(anor)]] to [[-(anor^2)]]
03:45:03 <esolangs> [[-(anor^2)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138827&oldid=138825 * Ractangle * (+181)
03:47:17 <esolangs> [[-(anor^2)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138828&oldid=138827 * Ractangle * (+45) /* Syntax */
03:47:27 <esolangs> [[-(anor^2)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138829&oldid=138828 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Syntax */
03:50:18 <esolangs> [[-(anor^2)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138830&oldid=138829 * Ractangle * (-58)
03:53:17 <esolangs> [[-(anor^2)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138831&oldid=138830 * Ractangle * (+80)
03:53:37 <esolangs> [[-(anor^2)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138832&oldid=138831 * Ractangle * (+4) /* Syntax */
04:12:09 -!- ipadwwwww has joined.
04:14:42 <esolangs> [[Talk:Final Word Of The Day/PkmnQ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138833 * Gggfr * (+116) Created page with "damn. damn thats cool. holeee [~~~~]"
04:16:52 -!- ipadwwwww has quit (Client Quit).
04:18:30 -!- ipadwwwww has joined.
04:21:54 -!- Europe2048 has joined.
04:22:30 -!- Europe2048 has quit (Client Quit).
04:31:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:0815]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138834&oldid=51052 * Gggfr * (+200) /* Language Details are not clear */
04:36:18 <esolangs> [[Final Word Of The Day]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138835&oldid=138797 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+48) See also
04:37:55 <esolangs> [[Final Word Of The Day/PkmnQ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138836&oldid=138821 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+110) Categories
04:38:45 <ipadwwwww> holeee look at dis: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Final_Word_Of_The_Day/PkmnQ
04:46:14 -!- ipadwwwww has quit (Quit: Client closed).
04:47:09 -!- wWwwW has joined.
04:47:15 <wWwwW> contiuing my message
04:47:33 <wWwwW> what would you do to make it TC?
04:49:10 <esolangs> [[OFFICIAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138837&oldid=136748 * Yayimhere * (+1)
04:50:13 -!- wWwwW has quit (Client Quit).
05:17:26 -!- craigo has joined.
05:19:19 -!- wWwwW has joined.
05:28:47 <esolangs> [[Larry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138838&oldid=137316 * Yayimhere * (-9) this...this is not a stub
05:29:07 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed).
06:02:31 -!- SGautam has joined.
06:26:32 <esolangs> [[Final Word Of The Day/PkmnQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138839&oldid=138836 * PkmnQ * (+256) not a solution
06:30:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:Final Word Of The Day/PkmnQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138840&oldid=138833 * PkmnQ * (+191)
06:36:42 -!- simcop2387 has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in).
06:37:24 -!- simcop2387 has joined.
06:59:05 -!- tromp has joined.
07:00:21 <b_jonas> fizzie: "the custom Google search API, they've indexed the wiki anyway" => that may help with Funciton, but some of the article titles on this wiki are so stupid that even google won't search for them
07:02:24 <b_jonas> fizzie: heck, in fact I just tried google and it tells me it's searching for “function site:esolangs org” and click on this small text link if I really mean “funciton site:esolangs.org”.
07:02:59 <b_jonas> though even with the default spelling correction, it still gives Funciton as the second result
07:13:48 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (T-Z)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138841&oldid=138764 * DGCK81LNN * (+36)
07:14:24 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (T-Z)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138842&oldid=138841 * DGCK81LNN * (+1)
07:33:16 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:39:04 <esolangs> [[Yayimhere-like esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138843&oldid=138288 * Ractangle * (+42) /* syntax */
07:40:59 <esolangs> [[Yayimhere-like esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138844&oldid=138843 * Ractangle * (+13)
08:10:03 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
08:14:39 -!- tromp has joined.
08:45:19 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138845&oldid=138809 * Ractangle * (-5)
08:46:09 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138846&oldid=138845 * Ractangle * (-67)
08:46:58 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138847&oldid=138846 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Esolangs */
08:48:57 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138848&oldid=138847 * Ractangle * (-27) /* Esolangs */
08:51:58 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
09:10:26 -!- __monty__ has joined.
09:26:27 <esolangs> [[CLFCE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138849&oldid=136555 * Ractangle * (-7)
09:27:32 <esolangs> [[CLFCE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138850&oldid=138849 * Ractangle * (+7)
09:33:20 <esolangs> [[OCBscriptOCBCCBCCB]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138851&oldid=137212 * Ractangle * (-7)
09:33:50 <esolangs> [[OCBscriptOCBCCBCCB]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138852&oldid=138851 * Ractangle * (-32)
09:39:29 <esolangs> [[*&&^]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138853&oldid=135862 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Syntax */
09:39:48 <esolangs> [[*&&^]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138854&oldid=138853 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Eaxmples */
09:42:29 <esolangs> [[FlipFlop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138855&oldid=138741 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Implementetion */
09:43:10 <esolangs> [[FlipFlop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138856&oldid=138855 * Ractangle * (+2) /* I don't even know what to type here */
09:46:51 <esolangs> [[Branjunk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138857&oldid=137706 * Ractangle * (-9)
09:48:56 <esolangs> [[Pyline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138858&oldid=121791 * DGCK81LNN * (+1355) /* Brainfuck interpreter */
10:20:19 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138859&oldid=138475 * DGCK81LNN * (+426)
10:21:44 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138860&oldid=138859 * DGCK81LNN * (+12)
10:22:40 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138861&oldid=138860 * DGCK81LNN * (+0) /* Example programs */
10:29:45 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138862&oldid=138861 * DGCK81LNN * (-1) /* Example programs */
10:50:17 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138863&oldid=138862 * DGCK81LNN * (-66) /* Mechanics */
10:54:10 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138864&oldid=138863 * DGCK81LNN * (+98) /* Mechanics */
10:55:27 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138865&oldid=138864 * DGCK81LNN * (+0) /* Mechanics */
10:56:36 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138866&oldid=138865 * DGCK81LNN * (+3) /* Mechanics */
10:57:52 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138867&oldid=138866 * DGCK81LNN * (+31) /* Mechanics */
10:58:22 <esolangs> [[-(anor^2)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138868&oldid=138832 * Ractangle * (+4)
11:02:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * DGCK81LNN * uploaded "[[File:WhatLang dices.png]]"
11:04:25 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138870&oldid=138867 * DGCK81LNN * (+381) /* Example programs */
11:12:43 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138871&oldid=138870 * DGCK81LNN * (+19) /* Example programs */
11:39:53 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/PSTF Again4]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138872&oldid=138478 * None1 * (+32)
11:46:34 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
11:49:48 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138873&oldid=138871 * DGCK81LNN * (+167)
11:50:06 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138874&oldid=138873 * DGCK81LNN * (+7)
11:50:40 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138875&oldid=138874 * DGCK81LNN * (+1)
12:01:16 <esolangs> [[User:Unname4798]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138876&oldid=138433 * Unname4798 * (-1) testing
12:02:28 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/PSTF Again4]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138877&oldid=138872 * Unname4798 * (-1) testing
12:03:19 -!- mtm has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
12:05:43 -!- mtm has joined.
12:13:36 -!- tromp has joined.
12:22:53 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
12:29:35 -!- tromp has joined.
12:31:53 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138878&oldid=138875 * DGCK81LNN * (+115) /* Instructions */
12:37:06 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138879&oldid=138878 * DGCK81LNN * (+36)
13:24:39 -!- wWwwW has joined.
13:25:16 -!- wWwwW has quit (Client Quit).
13:28:55 -!- wWwwW has joined.
13:30:20 -!- wWwwW has quit (Client Quit).
13:30:32 -!- wWwwW has joined.
13:39:08 <esolangs> [[Yayimhere-like esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138880&oldid=138844 * Yayimhere * (-170) /* examples */
13:41:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:Final Word Of The Day/PkmnQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138881&oldid=138840 * Yayimhere * (+121)
13:44:20 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed).
13:52:35 -!- wWwwW has joined.
13:55:52 <esolangs> [[0815]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138882&oldid=58725 * Yayimhere * (+48) /* Computational class */ the proof needs unbounded to be TC
13:57:05 <esolangs> [[W)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138883&oldid=138801 * Yayimhere * (-8)
14:02:08 -!- amby has joined.
14:06:54 -!- Sgeo has joined.
14:31:02 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
14:31:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:An Odd Rewriting System]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138884&oldid=137632 * Yayimhere * (+104) /* what was the limitation */
14:32:26 <wWwwW> agian to continue my message(seems nobody saw it) but what would you do to making OFFICIAL TC?
14:47:15 <esolangs> [[WC is a toilet but v, and c are Unlambda operators]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138885 * Yayimhere * (+261) Created page with "'''WC is a toilet but v, and c are Unlambda operators''' or '''WCTVCUO''' is a esolang by [[User:Yayimhere]]. the only change from [[Unlambda]] is that he only operators are <code>c and v</code> with another operator: .xy cre
14:48:18 <esolangs> [[WC is a toilet but v, and c are Unlambda operators]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138886&oldid=138885 * Yayimhere * (+0)
14:51:14 <wWwwW> can i get feedback?: https://esolangs.org/wiki/WC_is_a_toilet_but_v,_and_c_are_Unlambda_operators
15:06:32 -!- ais523 has joined.
15:15:17 <korvo> wWwwW: What does this change about Unlambda? Are some things now easier to express? Harder to read?
15:15:41 <wWwwW> its more limited and harder to use
15:19:34 <korvo> Oh, I misread. You've *removed* syntax. I see.
15:22:24 <korvo> I think this is a fairly weak fragment. I'm gonna use category theory; v is the constant arrow to the terminal object and c is the standard call/cc over some continuation monad (perhaps the initial such monad?)
15:23:03 <korvo> And then it's folklore that you can't build S or K from this. Continuation monads can't do anything besides be applied at some location; they don't introduce or eliminate type constructors.
15:28:34 <wWwwW> what would you then need to add?
15:29:16 <esolangs> [[WCTVCUO]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138887 * Yayimhere * (+64) Redirected page to [[WC is a toilet but v, and c are Unlambda operators]]
15:29:56 <wWwwW> if this isnt TC(i assume it is)
15:30:38 <korvo> Usually for combinators I'd look for a *fixed-point combinator
15:30:57 <korvo> So something like Z, Y, U, or Turing's bird.
15:32:47 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138888&oldid=138800 * Yayimhere * (+57)
15:33:50 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138889&oldid=138888 * Yayimhere * (+33)
15:33:56 <korvo> If you haven't seen it, we have a nice table of combinators: https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Bird_sociology
15:36:43 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138890&oldid=138889 * Yayimhere * (-47) /* eoslangs */
15:36:49 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138891&oldid=138890 * Yayimhere * (+47) /* things about me */
15:38:33 <wWwwW> i rlly love dis eoslang: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Final_Word_Of_The_Day/PkmnQ
15:39:56 -!- tromp has joined.
15:43:24 <wWwwW> what do you guys think?
15:47:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
15:48:48 -!- ais523 has joined.
15:50:41 -!- X-Scale has joined.
15:50:50 <korvo> It's alright. Reminds me of f-exprs, as in Lisps like Kernel.
15:54:35 <ais523> I've been thinking about an esolang
15:54:43 <ais523> need to write some program fragments to make sure it works
15:54:56 <wWwwW> wait one you make yourself
15:55:12 <ais523> yes, although this one is a simple variation on a couple of existing ones
15:55:16 -!- fowl8 has joined.
15:55:28 <ais523> it's harder to prove TC but I think it still is
15:55:48 -!- shikhin_ has joined.
15:55:48 <ais523> fizzie: oh wow, a sitenotice
15:56:15 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed).
15:56:50 -!- wWwwW has joined.
15:56:52 <ais523> fungot: do you maintain the wiki hardware, too?
15:56:53 <fungot> ais523: which implementation? i want their names. ultra10s are named after toys in toy story, but sid is the only free piece of code
15:56:54 <wWwwW> the hell. why did a disconnect
15:57:09 <ais523> this happens a lot on IRC, in my experience
15:57:24 <Sgeo> korvo, if you like stuff like f-exprs and Kernel, check out Smalltalk-72
15:57:42 <wWwwW> rarer than me geting ads(see my talk page lol)
15:58:24 -!- jix_ has joined.
15:58:30 -!- sprout_ has joined.
15:58:45 -!- __monty_1 has joined.
16:01:12 <fizzie> ais523: There's been such an uptick in the frequency of edits that I thought it'd be polite to put up a note, just so nobody spends an hour polishing an edit and is then unable to save it.
16:02:00 <wWwwW> how would you program in this?: https://esolangs.org/wiki/2_Player
16:02:05 <ais523> fizzie: it does make sense
16:02:42 <ais523> on my own server I normally check the logs to see whether anyone is connected before doing maintenance, but that only works because there's an explicit "connected" state, it isn't like a wiki where you can just submit pages whenever
16:03:23 <Sgeo> wWwwW, that's a bit confusing that it starts on the left edge and goes left. Is there wraparound?
16:03:31 -!- __monty__ has quit (*.net *.split).
16:03:32 -!- iovoid has quit (*.net *.split).
16:03:33 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split).
16:03:33 -!- op_4 has quit (*.net *.split).
16:03:33 -!- fowl has quit (*.net *.split).
16:03:34 -!- integral has quit (*.net *.split).
16:03:34 -!- korvo has quit (*.net *.split).
16:03:35 -!- sprout has quit (*.net *.split).
16:03:35 -!- shikhin has quit (*.net *.split).
16:03:36 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split).
16:03:36 -!- fowl8 has changed nick to fowl.
16:03:37 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin.
16:03:45 <wWwwW> it halts if off edge
16:04:37 <Sgeo> That, uh. Trivializes the language. Always halts immediately.
16:04:47 <esolangs> [[2 Player]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138892&oldid=138633 * Yayimhere * (+126)
16:04:50 <Sgeo> Wait, no, first command might take effect
16:05:23 <wWwwW> more command ideas
16:05:25 <ais523> it's not clear how the language usefully stores data
16:06:03 <ais523> a common way for languages to fail TCness is "when the amount of stored data gets too large, there is no way to read the full amount of the data" (I did that intentionally when writing BuzzFizz)
16:06:24 <wWwwW> the grid expands with commands
16:06:29 <wWwwW> i need to write that
16:06:34 <ais523> also commands that only work once generally aren't very useful, unless they are needed for program startup
16:08:42 <fizzie> For general interest: the "maintenance" is for setting up MariaDB replication, so that I'll have a local copy that's in the order of at most a few minutes old, rather than just the weekly one. Getting it started involves making a copy of the database and recording the current binlog position in such a way that they're consistent with each other.
16:09:13 <wWwwW> what do you mean ais523
16:10:30 <ais523> wWwwW: well, a program that "demonstrates TCness" needs to be able to potentially run forever, that means it can't rely on commands that only work once
16:11:03 * ais523 updates their local backup of the wiki
16:12:04 <ais523> in the early days of the wiki, we were worried it might go offline – esolang content had a habit of doing that and we wanted the wiki to preserve the content
16:12:17 <ais523> so, lots of us made backups of it so that we could restore it if something went wrong
16:12:39 <ais523> I'm not sure how many people are still doing that, but it doesn't hurt to do it on occasion, especially if there's about to be major maintenance done
16:14:21 <esolangs> [[2 Player]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138893&oldid=138892 * Yayimhere * (+377)
16:14:29 <wWwwW> done with the new commands
16:15:08 <wWwwW> what do you think now
16:19:02 <wWwwW> ais523 what wo you think now?
16:19:32 <ais523> it's a bit difficult to work out at short notice
16:19:51 <wWwwW> ! and X are the new commands
16:19:56 <ais523> you like to make your esolangs difficult, which is fine, but that means that people will need to spend a lot of time to think about them
16:20:21 <wWwwW> it has an explination
16:20:29 <wWwwW> but idk if anybody wants to hear it
16:20:35 <ais523> I still don't see how it stores data, though
16:20:48 <ais523> also, you should clarify whether the data pointer runs / responds to commands
16:20:51 <wWwwW> since you can modify code
16:21:21 <esolangs> [[2 Player]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138894&oldid=138893 * Yayimhere * (+15)
16:21:33 <ais523> ah, I see, and then the data pointer has a larger area to wrap in
16:21:38 <wWwwW> ok fixed the mirror thing
16:27:37 * ais523 almost writes an unless-else statement, then thinks better of it
16:28:08 <ais523> oh, I can write unless-next, that makes more sense
16:28:13 <esolangs> [[2 Player]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138895&oldid=138894 * Yayimhere * (+339)
16:36:18 <esolangs> [[2 Player]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138896&oldid=138895 * Yayimhere * (+495)
16:39:11 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
16:41:33 -!- __monty_1 has changed nick to __monty__.
17:01:28 -!- iovoid has joined.
17:01:28 -!- pikhq has joined.
17:01:28 -!- op_4 has joined.
17:01:28 -!- integral has joined.
17:01:28 -!- korvo has joined.
17:04:36 <wWwwW> what do you think now ais523
17:05:50 <esolangs> [[2 Player]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138897&oldid=138896 * Yayimhere * (+8) /* commands */
17:11:43 <esolangs> [[Yayimhere-like esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138898&oldid=138880 * Ractangle * (+12) /* examples */
17:12:20 -!- shikhin has changed hostmask to ~shikhin@offtopia/offtopian.
17:13:41 <esolangs> [[Yayimhere-like esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138899&oldid=138898 * Yayimhere * (+41) /* examples */
17:15:37 <esolangs> [[OTS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138900&oldid=138382 * Yayimhere * (+43)
17:16:06 <esolangs> [[2 Player]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138901&oldid=138897 * Yayimhere * (-12) /* commands */
17:16:36 <esolangs> [[2 Player]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138902&oldid=138901 * Yayimhere * (+12) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/138901|138901]] by [[Special:Contributions/Yayimhere|Yayimhere]] ([[User talk:Yayimhere|talk]])
17:16:47 <esolangs> [[2 Player]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138903&oldid=138902 * Yayimhere * (-41) /* commands */
17:17:10 <esolangs> [[2 Player]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138904&oldid=138903 * Yayimhere * (-33) /* commands */
17:20:03 <esolangs> [[WC is a toilet but v, and c are Unlambda operators]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138905&oldid=138886 * Yayimhere * (+16)
17:25:42 <korvo> wWwwW: I was netsplit, so maybe I missed it, but do you have ` or is this purely strings of c and v?
17:26:07 <wWwwW> i would like to include it
17:26:15 <wWwwW> but ` sint a operator
17:27:29 <esolangs> [[Turning tarpit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138906&oldid=96989 * Ais523 * (+163) /* Overview of the Genre */ mention Advance The Wheel!
17:27:33 <korvo> It's a parenthesis. It's the ability to make trees of combinators and not only strings.
17:33:40 -!- wWwwW19 has joined.
17:34:54 <esolangs> [[WC is a toilet but v, and c are Unlambda operators]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138907&oldid=138905 * Yayimhere * (+31)
17:35:51 -!- wWwwW has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
17:44:46 <esolangs> [[Yayimhere-like esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138908&oldid=138899 * Ractangle * (-14) /* examples */
17:45:39 -!- wWwwW has joined.
17:48:53 -!- wWwwW19 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
17:52:27 -!- sprout_ has changed nick to sprout.
18:00:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:0815]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138909&oldid=138834 * Yayimhere * (+111) /* proof of TCness incorrect */
18:07:45 <esolangs> [[~~]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138910&oldid=138479 * Yayimhere * (+1) /* ~~ hexadecimal format */
18:12:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
18:30:29 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
18:31:33 -!- dcreager has joined.
18:39:38 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed).
18:49:06 -!- impomatic has joined.
19:23:30 -!- craigo has quit (Quit: Leaving).
19:33:46 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[-(anor^2)]] to [[User:Ractangle/TSYALFIC]]
19:36:20 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/TSYALFIC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138913&oldid=138911 * Ractangle * (-257)
19:37:33 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/TSYALFIC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138914&oldid=138913 * Ractangle * (+17)
19:49:46 -!- molson_ has joined.
19:53:09 -!- molson has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
19:59:27 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
20:46:17 -!- tromp has joined.
21:27:42 <esolangs> [[Final Word Of The Day]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138915&oldid=138835 * 0ptr * (+1) grammar
21:31:09 -!- ais523 has joined.
21:36:43 <esolangs> [[Final Word Of The Day]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138916&oldid=138915 * 0ptr * (+23) improve wording
21:37:09 <zzo38> Can setcontext and pthreads be used together in the same program?
21:39:41 <zzo38> Also, is there a better way if the signal mask is not needed for contexts?
21:51:57 -!- X-Scale has joined.
21:52:03 <b_jonas> zzo38: I think it can be, but if you want to do that sort of thing I recommend that you look at libcoro "http://software.schmorp.de/pkg/libcoro.html" which abstracts context switching with multiple different backends including setcontext as one of the backends
21:52:19 -!- __monty__ has quit (Quit: leaving).
22:02:45 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
22:03:41 <esolangs> [[Flow of Holes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138917&oldid=130106 * Ais523 * (+33) /* See also */ cat
22:04:03 <esolangs> [[Bouncy Counters]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138918 * Ais523 * (+9745) new language!
22:04:46 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138919&oldid=138280 * Ais523 * (+22) /* B */ +[[Bouncy Counters]]
22:05:16 <esolangs> [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138920&oldid=137675 * Ais523 * (+21) +[[Bouncy Counters]]
22:05:35 <esolangs> [[Flow of Holes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138921&oldid=138917 * Ais523 * (+22) /* See also */ +[[Bouncy Counters]]
22:06:17 <Sgeo> Smalltalk-72 isn't an esolang, and isn't.... weird enough compared to Forth, but... it's still weird that I wish I could write about it somewhere esolang adjacent
22:08:26 <ais523> Sgeo: some people use userspace on Esolang for that sort of thing
22:08:41 <ais523> e.g. I think zzo38 has a list of non-esoteric languages that have esoteric aspects
22:11:26 <b_jonas> if you're writing mainly about the esoteric aspects you can probably get away with writing an article about any language, even respected good non-esoteric ones
22:12:20 * Sgeo looks up fexpr to reorient himselff
22:12:42 <Sgeo> "All functions are fexprs" is weird but... not unique probably
22:13:20 <ais523> b_jonas: the more I learn about Rust's parser, the more esoteric I start to think its syntax is
22:14:09 <ais523> it seems like Rust started with a highly ambiguous syntax and then started putting special-case patches into the parser and lexer until it started parsing ambiguous things the way the implementors expected – I don't think many languages do that
22:14:13 <ais523> (Perl does it, but it does so openly)
22:14:46 <ais523> some of the ambiguities are funny but don't really matter, e.g. «4.0» is a float constant, «4 .0» is the first field of 4 interpreted as a tuple
22:16:12 <ais523> but some are more interesting, like putting a struct literal in the control variable of an if or match (with «match Identifier { … }» the { … } could belong to either the match statement or to the identifier)
22:17:05 <ais523> and some are just confusing, e.g. .. is both an operator that applies to two values of the same type, and a value, so you can write .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. and it means something (and apparently has precedence rules so that there is one "official" parse of it)
22:23:34 <esolangs> [[Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138922&oldid=57329 * Ais523 * (+24) /* See also */ +[[Reversible Bitfuck]]
22:25:46 <b_jonas> ais523: the floating point ambiguity exists in other languages too. In python, 3.E2 is a floating-point literal with 2 as the decimal exponent, while 3 .E2 tries to access the attribute E2 of the integer 3
22:25:53 <esolangs> [[Bouncy Counters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138923&oldid=138918 * Ais523 * (+57) /* See also */ +[[[[Reversible Brainfuck#Unbounded cells, bounded tape]]
22:26:53 <b_jonas> C++ encountered this when they added user-defined numeric literals, which are syntactically written as a numeric literal immediately followed by an identifier suffix, but since hex number literals can end in a hex digit, this could be ambiguous
22:26:59 <fizzie> Hmm, I wonder if .e2 parses as 0.0e2 (and, consequently, is a zero) in any language.
22:27:41 <fizzie> (`.0e2` certainly does.)
22:28:03 <b_jonas> fizzie: "in any language" probably
22:29:42 <ais523> b_jonas: I thought C++ required an extra underscore in order to make that work
22:29:44 <b_jonas> I heard about the braces ambiguity with if/while body, I think that is important enough that every rust programmer encounter it, and as such it's a normal syntax rule and less a dangerou ambiguity
22:29:58 <ais523> apparently the rule has changed over time
22:30:17 <ais523> nowadays there are required parentheses around the condition if the block doesn't belong to the control flow statement, but that wasn't always the rule
22:32:42 <b_jonas> ".. is both an operator that applies to two values of the same type, and a value" => that's not realy scary, many languages have things that are both infix operators and start of an expression, and they just parse left to right and then it's not ambiguous. the problem here is that .. can be a *suffix operator* with nothing after it or an infix operator
22:35:34 <b_jonas> also an expression alone and a prefix operator
22:36:09 <ais523> fwiw I've decided that the clearest syntax for ranges uses ..^ (from Perl 6) for exclusive ranges and ..= (from Rust) for inclusive ranges
22:36:16 <ais523> that way you don't get confused upon seeing a plain ..
22:36:36 <ais523> this would also distinguish the infix operator from the suffix operator (but the infix and prefix versions would still be the same)
22:39:02 <esolangs> [[Bit bucket]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138924 * Ais523 * (+3085) it's about time this concept was documented there are quite a few redlinks to it
22:42:44 <ais523> <fizzie> Hmm, I wonder if .e2 parses as 0.0e2 (and, consequently, is a zero) in any language. ← in Jelly, a . on its own parses as 0.5; that means that the equivalent of .e2 parses as 50.0 (however, it uses ȷ as its scientific notation separator rather than e)
22:50:02 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
22:51:31 <fizzie> Aw, I forgot to do `flush tables with read lock;` when getting the binlog position. I may need to do that read-only thing again. :/
22:53:55 -!- X-Scale has joined.
22:55:15 <ais523> I've finished my big edits for the time being
22:55:23 <fizzie> I guess it's been reasonably quiet now.
22:55:28 <ais523> (I started writing before the maintenance window, then did something else for a few hours, and finished afterwards)
22:57:14 <ais523> also it's weird to see the site notice just appear and disappear like that, without a MediaWiki: page being edited (I know you can set it in the MediaWiki config too)
23:01:38 <b_jonas> ais523: clearly there has to be a way to add a site notice if something is broken or the wiki is already in a read-only mode and you can't edit a MediaWiki: page
23:02:16 <b_jonas> and fizzie probably has access on the server to do that
23:03:20 <b_jonas> it probably happens less on larger mediawiki sites where there are more active wiki admins who don't have computer admin rights
23:03:43 <fizzie> I have to set $wgReadOnly in the config anyway to _make_ it read-only.
23:04:31 <fizzie> It went by a lot quicker now that I wasn't at work getting distracted by work things.
23:10:58 <Sgeo> Is it weird that I think Smalltalk-72's conditionals are weird? (a => (b) => c) means if a then b else c, with an asymmetrical then/else thing that ... makes me think a bit of Swift guard, and makes if/elseif/else easy, like (a => (b) c => (d) e)
23:11:26 <Sgeo> I keep wavering between thinking it's unusual and thinking it's just if/elif/else
23:14:06 <b_jonas> Sgeo: wait what? what's the syntax for the if-else? what you wrote is confusing
23:14:37 <b_jonas> ok that looks more reasonable,
23:14:47 <Sgeo> if a is not false, execute/return b, otherwise return the rest of the expression
23:15:12 <Sgeo> Oh, I guess I miswrote it above
23:15:32 <b_jonas> though it's still strange because Smalltalk is supposed to have built-in syntax to pass lambda closures as a method argument, which means they can just have if-else as an ordinary method on booleans
23:15:50 <b_jonas> and need no special syntax for it
23:16:45 <b_jonas> the arrow is kind of old style and gone out of fashion (which I don't mind), but I don't think it's too strange
23:17:49 <Sgeo> Smalltalk-72 is before blocks. Functions and objects are basically the same, and the way to make an object that responds to different messages is a long if/else chai
23:17:56 <ais523> it seems quite common for modern programming languages to use both -> and => but for different things
23:18:13 <b_jonas> oh, it's *before* blocks syntax?
23:18:26 <b_jonas> I didn't know it was called smalltalk before that
23:19:33 <Sgeo> https://smalltalkzoo.thechm.org/HOPL-St72.html emulator on the web, although it's a bit imperfect, I don't think it responds to clicks. https://bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/smalltalk/Smalltalk-72_Instruction_Manual_Mar76.pdf manual
23:20:04 <Sgeo> to if exp (:exp?(%then?(:exp. %else?(:". exp)exp)error "(no then))
23:20:04 <Sgeo> %then?(:". %else?(:exp) false)error "(no then))
23:20:04 <Sgeo> 'The ALGOL if ... then ... else ...'
23:20:31 <Sgeo> ... I'm not actually going to try to understand that
23:20:46 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138925&oldid=138879 * DGCK81LNN * (+1122) /* Example programs */
23:20:47 <Sgeo> I guess that arrow is encoded in ASCII as %
23:20:59 <Sgeo> to is how to define new functions/classes
23:21:07 <Sgeo> (Apparently like Logo but I don't know Logo)
23:22:25 <Sgeo> https://github.com/pablomarx/Smalltalk72/blob/a1efa79e5ba678a0bf550ba6797f36013f59e507/system/ALLDEFS#L229
23:22:52 <Sgeo> Definition of falseclass. Actually a primitive but string as comment shows definiton
23:23:19 <Sgeo> Eyeball symbol is true and consumes the next token if the next token in the message matches the thing after eyeball
23:23:35 <ais523> I only ever used the turtle-moving parts of Logo, and repeat-n loops, but apparently it's object-oriented?
23:23:57 <Sgeo> : evaluates something in the message. So you can see how it's an if/else chain for how false should respond to messages
23:26:34 <Sgeo> ? in the if/then/else thing I pasted above is the arrow operator thing. % is eyeball. The Github link is easier to read than trying to paste in here
23:28:44 <b_jonas> ok, I have to admit that does look like very old style code
23:29:01 <b_jonas> they probably learned some of that from forth
23:29:19 <b_jonas> I mean can you still say after that that smalltalk isn't related to forth?
23:48:11 <Sgeo> https://worrydream.com/EarlyHistoryOfSmalltalk/ says that it was inspired by FLEX, PLANNER, LOGO, META II
23:48:35 <Sgeo> (and Lisp, but I think that's mentioned elsewhere in that page)
23:49:37 <Sgeo> ". My next question was, why on earth call it a functional language? Why not just base everything on FEXPRs and force evaluation on the receiving side when needed? "