←2024-09-13 2024-09-14 2024-09-15→ ↑2024 ↑all
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00:10:52 <esolangs> [[User:Eugene]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139042&oldid=139035 * Ais523 * (-5) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/139035|139035]] by [[Special:Contributions/Ractangle|Ractangle]] ([[User talk:Ractangle|talk]]) introducing errors into the page (AFAICT Eugene did not make Istoriya, only document it)
00:15:23 <esolangs> [[BF Joust]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139043&oldid=132981 * Ais523 * (+29) /* The Battle */ clarify
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02:13:44 <korvo> I did think the twin-prime thing was cool. I'm not going to add MtG to the BB Gauge because it's rather big and copyrighted, but maybe I should add Wang tiles.
02:14:29 <korvo> I had considered doing Post correspondence machines but I think that the functor from Turing machines to PCPs is rather too good for this; I'm not sure how to handwrite a better PCP.
02:15:07 <korvo> Er, *PCMs. A PCP is quite different.
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03:34:39 <esolangs> [[Mathfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139044 * Sgeo * (+739) Mathfuck
03:35:10 <Sgeo> It's possible that it's ... more solvable than expected if mod256 makes things... more predictable
03:36:08 <Sgeo> Also not sure how to deal with the possibility of overlaps. For the twin prime ones, I could say that they could be second largest twin prime pair
03:38:11 <Sgeo> Doesn't really fit "We don't know if it's a language or not"
03:39:01 <korvo> I don't know about odd perfect numbers, but the others are good (mod 256). Collatz counterexamples must be multiples of 3 and twin primes must be of the form 6k ± 1.
04:05:19 <Sgeo> I feel like I'm wasting the beautiful name Mathfuck. Especially since this is BitChanger (I just looked for something with fewer commands)
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04:53:15 <esolangs> [[Talk:NRP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139045 * Yayimhere * (+141) Created page with "is this allowed?: 1 = 1 1. can i do that? [~~~~]"
05:04:20 <zzo38> With GCC, can you use -no-integrated-cpp and -wrapper to add extra steps before and after the preprocessor? Can this or something similar be used with Clang also?
05:08:02 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139046&oldid=138976 * Yayimhere * (+1) /* syntax form */
05:09:24 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139047&oldid=139046 * Yayimhere * (+82) /* operators */
05:09:35 <wWwwW> is a loop possible?: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Savage_Operator
05:14:52 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139048&oldid=139047 * Yayimhere * (+1)
05:15:12 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139049&oldid=139048 * Yayimhere * (+17)
05:17:24 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139050&oldid=139049 * Yayimhere * (+0) /* syntax form */
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05:20:00 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139051&oldid=139050 * Yayimhere * (+54)
05:29:05 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139052&oldid=139051 * Yayimhere * (+94)
05:33:50 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139053&oldid=139052 * Yayimhere * (+21)
05:34:31 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139054&oldid=139053 * Yayimhere * (-194) /* operators */
05:40:44 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139055&oldid=139054 * Yayimhere * (+0)
05:45:00 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139056&oldid=139055 * Yayimhere * (+17)
05:50:48 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139057&oldid=139056 * Yayimhere * (+283) /* operators */
05:51:52 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139058&oldid=139057 * Yayimhere * (+85) /* turing completeness proof */
05:52:57 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139059&oldid=139058 * Yayimhere * (+47) /* turing completeness proof */
05:53:04 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139060&oldid=139059 * Yayimhere * (+0)
05:53:11 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139061&oldid=139060 * Yayimhere * (+0)
05:55:53 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139062&oldid=139061 * Yayimhere * (+8) /* turing completeness proof */
05:56:39 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139063&oldid=139062 * Yayimhere * (+0)
06:00:39 <esolangs> [[Talk:Unlambda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139064&oldid=24258 * Yayimhere * (+46) /* My attempt at compiling Unlambda to D */
06:03:45 <esolangs> [[Prefix notation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139065&oldid=133810 * Yayimhere * (+1) /* Examples */ the space made more sense based on the syntax
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06:09:36 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139066&oldid=139063 * Yayimhere * (-68)
06:10:58 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139067&oldid=139066 * Yayimhere * (+48) /* turing completeness proof */
06:14:52 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't know, but you can use gcc -E to stop after running the preprocessor, and use gcc $basename.i or gcc -x cpp-output $filename to pass an already preprocessed C file (and similarly for C++), so you can just do all the preprocessing steps manually that way before you compile
06:15:16 <wWwwW> hello b_jonas!
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06:21:00 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139068&oldid=139067 * Yayimhere * (+21)
06:22:07 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139069&oldid=139068 * Yayimhere * (+85)
06:49:41 <wWwwW> are there any esolangs that use surreal numbers?
06:51:00 <wWwwW> also if i understand
06:51:04 <wWwwW> surreal numbers
06:51:17 <wWwwW> are just numbers holding not only reals
06:51:22 <wWwwW> but also infinty's
06:51:29 <wWwwW> and infinitly small numberas
06:51:31 <wWwwW> right?
06:51:33 <wWwwW> numbers*
07:05:30 <esolangs> [[Mountain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139070&oldid=138472 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+20)
07:07:07 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139071&oldid=137045 * Yayimhere * (+0)
07:07:33 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139072&oldid=139036 * Yayimhere * (+13) /* eoslangs */
07:07:42 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139073&oldid=139072 * Yayimhere * (+0) /* eoslangs */
07:09:14 <esolangs> [[Mountain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139074&oldid=139070 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-11) /* Examples */
07:12:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139075&oldid=139045 * Yayimhere * (+128)
07:13:32 <esolangs> [[NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139076&oldid=139037 * Yayimhere * (+40) /* Examples */
07:15:09 <esolangs> [[NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139077&oldid=139076 * Yayimhere * (+56) /* Examples */
07:15:44 <esolangs> [[NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139078&oldid=139077 * Yayimhere * (+5) /* Looping counter(not printing) */
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07:37:08 <esolangs> [[NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139079&oldid=139078 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Truth-machine */
07:38:18 <esolangs> [[NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139080&oldid=139079 * Ractangle * (+26)
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07:41:30 <esolangs> [[Talk:NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139081&oldid=139075 * Ractangle * (+174)
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07:45:18 <esolangs> [[Linear]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139082 * Yayimhere * (+730) Created page with "'''Linear''' is a esolang created by [[User:Yayimhere]] == syntax == the program is made up of a list of lists separated by spaces. lists themselves are set up like this: n, m where <code>n and m</code> are positive integers == semantics == for every n, and m we do thi
07:46:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139083&oldid=138502 * Ractangle * (+4) /* can somebody explain why cant i make DISPLAYTITLE work properly */
07:47:02 <esolangs> [[U (PrySigneToFry)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139084&oldid=137597 * Ractangle * (+28) /* Category */
07:49:28 <esolangs> [[EML]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139085&oldid=68231 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Describe EML. */
07:59:34 <esolangs> [[F uck you]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139086&oldid=126515 * Yayimhere * (-34)
08:01:21 <esolangs> [[StatiC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139087 * Squidmanescape * (+455) Created page with "'''StatiC''' is a C-like language which is entirely static. It doesn't allocate or deallocate memory. == Syntax == The syntax is like C except you can't use malloc() and free(). You also can't use any standard functions unless you define them yourself, which mean
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08:02:51 <esolangs> [[StatiC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139088&oldid=139087 * Squidmanescape * (-2) /* Integer */
08:04:30 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[2D]] to [[User:Ractangle/2D]]
08:04:45 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139091&oldid=139089 * Ractangle * (+5) /* Examples */
08:05:03 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139092&oldid=139091 * Ractangle * (+6) /* Examples */
08:07:54 <esolangs> [[StatiC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139093&oldid=139088 * Squidmanescape * (+268) /* Syntax */
08:08:19 <esolangs> [[StatiC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139094&oldid=139093 * Squidmanescape * (+29) /* Syntax */
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09:12:25 <esolangs> [[NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139095&oldid=139080 * Yayimhere * (-60) /* Looping counter(not printing) */
09:13:05 <esolangs> [[Talk:NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139096&oldid=139081 * Yayimhere * (+139)
09:15:19 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139097&oldid=138950 * Ractangle * (+10) /* Esolangs */
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10:22:25 <esolangs> [[AI made dis]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139098 * Yayimhere * (+3093) Created page with "'''AI made dis''' is a esolang created by chatGPT. it was prompted by [[User:Yayimhere]]. its named FROSTWIRE-666 although i will use that name elsewhere == Memory Model == The language operates on 666 nodes, each capable of holding an integer. <br> These are ind
10:25:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[User:Ractangle/2D]] to [[Literally just a turing machine]]
10:29:03 <wWwwW> does the proof of TC'ness work?: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Savage_Operator
10:30:57 <esolangs> [[Literally just a turing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139101&oldid=139099 * Ractangle * (-261)
10:32:17 <esolangs> [[Literally just a turing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139102&oldid=139101 * Yayimhere * (-11) /* Examples */ categories should not be in pre
10:33:50 <esolangs> [[Literally just a turing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139103&oldid=139102 * Ractangle * (-40) /* Examples */
10:34:51 <esolangs> [[Literally just a turing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139104&oldid=139103 * Ractangle * (-52) /* Commands */
10:35:11 <esolangs> [[Bubblegum]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139105&oldid=90078 * PkmnQ * (-28) /* Reference implementation */ Though likely, still not proven Turing-complete
10:37:49 <esolangs> [[Literally just a turing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139106&oldid=139104 * Ractangle * (+62) /* Examples */
10:38:04 <esolangs> [[Literally just a turing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139107&oldid=139106 * Ractangle * (-30) /* Truth-machine */
10:38:36 <esolangs> [[Literally just a turing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139108&oldid=139107 * Ractangle * (+35) /* Commands */
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10:54:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:SchrderBernstein theorem]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139109 * Yayimhere * (+120) Created page with "delete dis plz. empty [~~~~]"
11:03:07 <esolangs> [[Brainshit]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139110 * Yayimhere * (+347) Created page with "'''Brainshit''' is a esolang created by [[User:Yayimhere]], its just [[BF]] but different == changes == first of all commands are changed like this: + -> { - -> } [ -> [ ] -> ] > -> ( < -> ) also all brackets must be matched. also this is not allowed: [(]) so
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11:24:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Yayimhere * uploaded "[[File:RECT4n=GLE.jpg]]"
11:25:02 <esolangs> [[RECT4n=GLE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139112&oldid=138575 * Yayimhere * (+39)
11:27:07 <esolangs> [[RECT4n=GLE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139113&oldid=139112 * Yayimhere * (+31) /* real tiles */
11:31:53 <wWwwW> is this proof correct?: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Savage_Operator
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11:57:52 <esolangs> [[Literally just a turing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139114&oldid=139108 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Truth-machine */
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12:09:38 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139115&oldid=139073 * Ractangle * (+16) /* esolangs */
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12:16:01 <esolangs> [[Talk:NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139116&oldid=139096 * Ractangle * (+139)
12:16:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139117&oldid=139116 * Ractangle * (+45)
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12:42:59 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139118&oldid=139115 * Yayimhere * (+13) /* esolangs */
12:43:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139119&oldid=139117 * Ractangle * (+165)
12:43:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139120&oldid=139119 * Ractangle * (+4)
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12:44:52 <esolangs> [[Talk:NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139121&oldid=139120 * Yayimhere * (+30)
12:45:04 <esolangs> [[Talk:NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139122&oldid=139121 * Yayimhere * (+2)
12:47:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:NRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139123&oldid=139122 * Ractangle * (+6)
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13:07:44 <esolangs> [[Func()]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139124&oldid=137202 * Yayimhere * (-1) /* examples */
13:07:54 <esolangs> [[Func()]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139125&oldid=139124 * Yayimhere * (+0) /* examples */
13:16:24 <esolangs> [[Wiki/pedia/.org]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139126&oldid=138062 * Yayimhere * (+2)
13:18:40 <esolangs> [[!()]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139127&oldid=136747 * Yayimhere * (-3)
13:19:10 <esolangs> [[!()]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139128&oldid=139127 * Yayimhere * (+1)
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13:25:18 <esolangs> [[User talk:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139129&oldid=138469 * PrySigneToFry * (+641)
13:27:42 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139130&oldid=132875 * PrySigneToFry * (+58)
13:28:28 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139131&oldid=138468 * PrySigneToFry * (+44)
13:31:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:Translated ZhongWen/None1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139132 * PrySigneToFry * (+518) Created page with "I registered to Baidu, so I has this version: <pre> "said SREC > M" __ > + > > "Qing T Qing Pa I"D->a>1 =# --PPPPPPPP..."
13:40:26 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139133&oldid=139131 * MihaiEso * (+46)
13:41:08 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139134&oldid=139133 * MihaiEso * (-3) Oops, AutoHotkey done that.
13:43:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:^]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139135 * Yayimhere * (+135) Created page with "then what would dis program do?: ^^ [~~~~]"
13:43:42 <wWwwW> i have a weak esolang concept
13:43:48 <wWwwW> can anybody help me with expanding it?
13:43:49 <wWwwW> plz
13:46:14 <sprout> ah, the concept of a plan. good
13:46:27 <wWwwW> wut
13:46:31 <wWwwW> im confused
13:46:36 <sprout> nevermind
13:46:46 <wWwwW> k
13:46:47 <wWwwW> k
13:46:50 <wWwwW> wait oops
13:47:05 <wWwwW> shall i say the concept or....?
13:52:02 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/MihaiEso]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139136 * MihaiEso * (+1294) Created page with "Crazier version of [[Translated ZhongWen/None1]] 1. Take the semiproduct <pre> "said SREC > M" __ > + > > "Qing T Qing Pa I"D->a>1 =# --PPPPP..."
13:53:01 <sprout> this is irc, don't ask to ask
13:53:24 <wWwwW> ok. sorry
13:53:25 <wWwwW> well
13:53:27 <wWwwW> then ok
13:54:34 <wWwwW> my concept: a esolang where memory is sotred in the IP
13:54:37 <wWwwW> ad only the IP
13:54:40 <wWwwW> *and
13:54:44 <wWwwW> and not 2d
13:54:49 <wWwwW> this is no asciidots
14:04:42 <esolangs> [[Translated !English]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139137&oldid=125757 * MihaiEso * (+20)
14:08:09 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139138&oldid=138981 * MihaiEso * (+78) /* Horribly translated variants */
14:13:53 <esolangs> [[Xx]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139139&oldid=139027 * Yayimhere * (+0) /* turing completeness proof */
14:14:41 <esolangs> [[Xx]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139140&oldid=139139 * Yayimhere * (+35) /* syntax */
14:17:02 <esolangs> [[Translated CreativeASM]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139141 * MihaiEso * (+3127) Created page with "There are a lot of horribly translated languages that the originals look like English and are translated with like Baidu. We are translating a high-level assembly language with ModernMT! 1. Take this example: <pre> @ A calculator program in CreativeASM
14:18:11 <esolangs> [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139142&oldid=137002 * MihaiEso * (+78)
14:22:39 <esolangs> [[Translated CreativeASM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139143&oldid=139141 * MihaiEso * (+67)
14:27:48 <esolangs> [[AmBored++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139144&oldid=68984 * Ractangle * (+30) /* See also */
14:28:54 <esolangs> [[AmBored--]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139145&oldid=68985 * Ractangle * (+30) /* See also */
14:42:31 <esolangs> [[User:GUAqwq/brainfuck quine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139146 * GUAqwq * (+9496) Created page with "My quine, inspired by [[User:Hakerh400/How_to_write_quines]]. >>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
14:43:04 <esolangs> [[User:GUAqwq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139147&oldid=138129 * GUAqwq * (+48)
14:43:13 <esolangs> [[User:GUAqwq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139148&oldid=139147 * GUAqwq * (+2)
14:45:26 <esolangs> [[User:MihaiEso/Sandbox 3]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139149&oldid=130853 * MihaiEso * (+9)
14:45:58 <esolangs> [[User:MihaiEso/Sandbox 3]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139150&oldid=139149 * MihaiEso * (+0)
14:52:09 <esolangs> [[Category:Generated by AI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139151&oldid=131363 * MihaiEso * (+15)
14:52:19 <esolangs> [[Category:Generated by AI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139152&oldid=139151 * MihaiEso * (+4)
14:56:18 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Wrong Wrap]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139153 * PkmnQ * (+1143) Created page with "[[Wrong Wrap]] is an esolang derived from an attempt to create a 2D language where NOP is the only instruction. == Execution == In programs, the only thing that matters is the length of each line. Non-newline characters are all interpreted as NOPs. We'll tak
14:59:02 <esolangs> [[AI made dis]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139154&oldid=139098 * MihaiEso * (+97)
14:59:42 <esolangs> [[User:GUAqwq/brainfuck quine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139155&oldid=139146 * Cycwin * (+739)
15:01:01 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Wrong Wrap]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139156&oldid=139153 * MihaiEso * (+2)
15:01:45 <esolangs> [[Translated CreativeASM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139157&oldid=139143 * MihaiEso * (+22)
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15:25:56 <esolangs> [[Sorry]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139158 * Xff * (+597) Created page with "'''Sorry''' is a esolang created by [[User:Yayimhere]]. its under load but with one change that makes Sorry have only two commands == information == there is one change. now the <code>^</code> does dis: :pop top 4 elements. the first popped is a second popped is b, third poppe
15:33:36 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139159&oldid=139118 * Xff * (+12) /* esolangs */
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15:39:24 <esolangs> [[Sorry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139160&oldid=139158 * Xff * (+128)
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15:42:01 <korvo> wWwwW: If you say so. A common theme in your writing is a lack of clarity and foundations; it's not clear *what* your languages manipulate.
15:44:06 <esolangs> [[Arrow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139161&oldid=97018 * Ractangle * (+13) /* External resources */
15:47:09 <korvo> If I assume Unlambda's semantics, then I think I understand your Savage Operator claim, but I have to make that assumption; I have to copy information about another language into your setting.
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15:49:17 <esolangs> [[B]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139162&oldid=116357 * Ractangle * (+10)
15:49:41 <PCWWWWW> i have gotten strangely addicted to underload: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Sorry
15:49:59 <esolangs> [[B]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139163&oldid=139162 * Ractangle * (-10)
15:52:49 <PCWWWWW> idk
15:53:17 <PCWWWWW> im like 99.999% sure that sorry is TC but idk
15:56:38 <esolangs> [[BF instruction extension]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139164&oldid=116858 * Ractangle * (+22) /* See also */
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16:03:10 <esolangs> [[BFM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139165&oldid=30457 * Ractangle * (+22)
16:07:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TotallyNotSethP * New user account
16:08:37 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139166&oldid=139029 * TotallyNotSethP * (+176) added Seth introduction
16:11:37 <PCWWWWW> if ts correct
16:14:02 <esolangs> [[Sorry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139167&oldid=139160 * Xff * (+13)
16:18:04 <esolangs> [[Sorry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139168&oldid=139167 * Xff * (+0)
16:27:08 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139169&oldid=138783 * Ractangle * (+97) /* Syntax */
16:27:29 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139170&oldid=139169 * Ractangle * (-4) /* Disan Count (kinda) */
16:27:40 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139171&oldid=139170 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Syntax */
16:27:51 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139172&oldid=139171 * Ractangle * (-4) /* Truth-machine */
16:28:03 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139173&oldid=139172 * Ractangle * (-2) /* Hello, world! */
16:28:47 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139174&oldid=139173 * Ractangle * (-26) /* Examples */
16:29:41 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139175&oldid=139174 * Ractangle * (+3) /* Interpreter */
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16:33:13 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139176&oldid=139175 * Ractangle * (+100) /* Interpreter */
16:33:32 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139177&oldid=139176 * Ractangle * (-4) /* Interpreter */
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16:34:50 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139178&oldid=139177 * Ractangle * (+2) I forgot :
16:36:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:How dare you fuck the brain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139179 * Xff * (+51) Created page with "proof of turing completeness(WIP): [...] -> \n...)"
16:37:01 <esolangs> [[Talk:How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139180&oldid=139179 * Xff * (+16)
16:37:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139181&oldid=139180 * Xff * (+16)
16:39:09 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139182&oldid=139178 * Ractangle * (-2) /* Hello, world! */
16:40:09 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139183&oldid=139182 * Ractangle * (+135) /* Interpreter */
16:40:25 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139184&oldid=139183 * Ractangle * (+6) /* Interpreter */
16:40:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139185&oldid=139181 * Xff * (+81)
16:50:20 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139186&oldid=139184 * Ractangle * (+253) /* Move data from a cell to an another cell */
16:50:55 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139187&oldid=139186 * Ractangle * (-55) /* Interpreter */
16:52:30 <esolangs> [[Talk:How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139188&oldid=139185 * Ractangle * (+226)
16:56:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139189&oldid=139188 * Xff * (+65)
16:56:45 <esolangs> [[Talk:How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139190&oldid=139189 * Xff * (-5)
16:59:26 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139191&oldid=138725 * Ractangle * (+216) /* How dare you fuck the brain */
17:00:58 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139192&oldid=139191 * Ractangle * (+53) /* How dare you fuck the brain */
17:01:19 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139193&oldid=139192 * Ractangle * (+3) /* How dare you fuck the brain */
17:01:39 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139194&oldid=139193 * Ractangle * (+5) /* How dare you fuck the brain */
17:02:29 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139195&oldid=139194 * Ractangle * (-253) i am removing the CLFCE section because i think it sucks
17:03:31 <esolangs> [[Arrow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139196&oldid=139161 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+12) /* External resources */ Wayback
17:04:54 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139197&oldid=139195 * Xff * (+253) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/139195|139195]] by [[Special:Contributions/Ractangle|Ractangle]] ([[User talk:Ractangle|talk]]) because you cant delete something cuz YOU think it sucks. when it comes to this make a talk
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17:08:06 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139198&oldid=139197 * Ractangle * (-1) /* How dare you fuck the brain */
17:08:34 <esolangs> [[Sorry]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139199&oldid=139168 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+3) Link
17:10:51 <esolangs> [[Linear]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139200&oldid=139082 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+110) Categories
17:12:10 <esolangs> [[Mathfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139201&oldid=139044 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+139) Categories
17:12:57 <esolangs> [[Talk:How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139202&oldid=139190 * Ractangle * (+177)
17:15:42 <esolangs> [[Brainshit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139203&oldid=139110 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+211) Categories
17:16:12 <esolangs> [[Mathfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139204&oldid=139201 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+18) Category
17:17:54 <esolangs> [[Istoriya]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139205&oldid=138992 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) Category
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17:21:05 <esolangs> [[Bitcoin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139206&oldid=99774 * Ractangle * (+20) /* Examples */
17:21:21 <esolangs> [[Bitcoin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139207&oldid=139206 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Examples */
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17:24:18 <esolangs> [[Bitcoin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139208&oldid=139207 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Examples */
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17:28:09 <esolangs> [[BitZ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139209&oldid=87629 * Ractangle * (+22) /* External resources */
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17:47:18 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139210&oldid=139187 * Xff * (+180) /* Examples */
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17:54:15 <wWwwW> korvo what question are you answering?
17:54:33 <korvo> wWwwW: TC-ness of Savage Operator.
17:55:13 <wWwwW> oh ok
17:55:19 <wWwwW> which part is confusing?
17:57:56 <esolangs> [[Talk:How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139211&oldid=139202 * Yayimhere * (+109)
17:58:08 <korvo> It's not confusing, it's unclear.
17:58:13 <wWwwW> how
17:58:16 <wWwwW> which part
18:02:49 <wWwwW> is unclear?
18:03:58 <esolangs> [[Yaren]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139212&oldid=94314 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+190) Rewrite, add interpreter
18:05:27 <korvo> I'm not sure how the append operations would work. I'm also not clear on how ∞ works; for example, what is ∞i equivalent to?
18:05:42 <wWwwW> oh
18:05:44 <wWwwW> yea
18:06:15 <wWwwW> so appendsaion would be like dis lambda: λx.λy.x y
18:06:25 <wWwwW> and ∞
18:06:44 <wWwwW> would make the ∞ actually be ran instead of just be a string of opertors
18:09:11 <wWwwW> i wil edit the page
18:09:12 <wWwwW> but yea
18:09:16 <wWwwW> oh wait
18:09:48 <wWwwW> the alphja append is just the same but the y is moved inside the brackets of y
18:12:32 <korvo> Mm. Okay, I think I understand how I would interpret this, but now I'm no longer certain that the S and K given are correct. I'd need to see you work out the reduction rules first.
18:12:48 <wWwwW> ok
18:12:50 <korvo> I'm not going to ask you to do that, because it could be a lot of work, but I hope that it's obvious *why* I can't just guess.
18:12:50 <wWwwW> will do
18:12:55 <wWwwW> gimme an expression
18:13:11 <korvo> How about SKK? It should reduce to I.
18:13:21 <wWwwW> true
18:13:25 <wWwwW> ok
18:13:30 <wWwwW> so lets take the expression
18:13:40 <wWwwW> in savage opperator
18:13:55 <wWwwW> wait no
18:14:02 <wWwwW> cuz K don work for two inputs
18:14:04 <wWwwW> will fix
18:15:36 <wWwwW> wait no
18:15:38 <wWwwW> i cant
18:16:03 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139213&oldid=139069 * Yayimhere * (+15) /* turing completeness proof */
18:16:23 <wWwwW> gimme somethin else plz
18:19:50 <korvo> How about SII? I hope you're seeing the power of implementing a language rather than merely guessing at it.
18:19:52 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139214&oldid=139213 * Yayimhere * (-36)
18:20:00 <wWwwW> yea
18:20:01 <wWwwW> but
18:20:13 <wWwwW> wait
18:20:20 <wWwwW> your missing an input to S
18:20:52 <wWwwW> so that wont work
18:21:49 <korvo> Why wasn't that a problem for SKK?
18:21:58 <wWwwW> wait
18:22:03 <wWwwW> oh i saw wrong
18:22:16 <wWwwW> i though it was KSK
18:22:18 <wWwwW> or something
18:22:20 <wWwwW> but that works?
18:22:21 <wWwwW> idk
18:22:29 <wWwwW> how that works in combinatory logic
18:22:47 <wWwwW> well
18:23:02 <wWwwW> ig the last could just be a like
18:23:08 <wWwwW> just "placeholder"
18:23:12 <wWwwW> or what you would say
18:23:14 <wWwwW> so we have:
18:23:15 <korvo> Well, Kxy -> x, right? So what happens with KSK?
18:23:30 <wWwwW> in normal combinatory logic?
18:23:38 <wWwwW> in this tho
18:23:47 <korvo> Why would this not be normal combinatory logic?
18:23:52 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139215&oldid=139214 * Yayimhere * (+8) /* operators */
18:23:56 <wWwwW> cuz
18:23:58 <wWwwW> u know
18:24:01 <wWwwW> wait
18:24:04 <wWwwW> forget it
18:24:26 <wWwwW> well
18:24:36 <wWwwW> with to input the first one would be ignored
18:24:39 <wWwwW> in savbage
18:24:43 <wWwwW> and just do Kx
18:24:45 <wWwwW> wait
18:24:47 <wWwwW> problem
18:24:57 <wWwwW> wait no
18:25:35 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139216&oldid=139215 * Yayimhere * (+37) /* turing completeness proof */
18:25:53 <wWwwW> fixed it
18:26:24 <wWwwW> so now will do
18:26:27 <korvo> So the behavior of K should change depending on how many arguments it's applied to?
18:26:32 <wWwwW> yes
18:26:43 <wWwwW> cuz¨the a is for adding the y as input
18:27:04 <korvo> Well, that would be a reason for this not to be normal combinatory logic. Combinators should normally be extensional.
18:27:10 <wWwwW> they are
18:27:15 <wWwwW> this is just an application
18:27:17 <wWwwW> wait
18:27:21 <wWwwW> i could generalize
18:27:22 <wWwwW> ok
18:27:25 <wWwwW> gimme a sec
18:27:54 <korvo> Like, when I said that SKK -> I, I should have said SKKx -> Ix for all x. And that's because SKKx -> Kx(Kx) -> x, and also Ix -> x. Does this make sense?
18:28:06 <wWwwW> yes
18:28:11 <wWwwW> im kinda streseed gimme sec
18:28:14 <wWwwW> wait no it works
18:28:19 <wWwwW> since a is just to appl,y
18:28:21 <wWwwW> *apply
18:28:39 <wWwwW> wait
18:28:41 <wWwwW> lemme fix stuff
18:29:41 <wWwwW> im fixing stuff
18:32:16 <wWwwW> wait
18:32:18 <wWwwW> fuuu
18:32:20 <wWwwW> it wont work
18:32:21 <wWwwW> aaaa
18:32:26 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139217&oldid=139216 * Yayimhere * (-520) /* turing completeness proof */
18:32:38 <esolangs> [[Robot Is Chill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139218&oldid=130155 * Ataberk * (+45) added external github link
18:32:54 <wWwwW> shiiii
18:32:57 <wWwwW> oh well
18:33:40 <korvo> Do you want to understand the rest of the TC proof anyway? You hadn't constructed the important part yet.
18:33:54 <wWwwW> ?
18:34:04 <wWwwW> o didnt know that
18:34:09 <wWwwW> *i
18:34:31 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ataberk * moved [[Robot Is Chill]] to [[ROBOT IS CHILL]]: Misspelled title: per https://discord.com/channels/842220825226379265/853048386311028746/1284582140993867847
18:35:00 <korvo> You don't just need to implement S and K. You need to show that your implementation is *faithful*, meaning that for every legal reduction of S and K in combinators, there's a legal reduction in Savage Operator which performs equivalent moves.
18:35:06 <esolangs> [[ROBOT IS CHILL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139221&oldid=139219 * Ataberk * (+0) change to 'ROBOT IS CHILL'
18:35:14 <wWwwW> true
18:35:15 <wWwwW> fuuu
18:35:16 <wWwwW> wait
18:35:19 <korvo> Like, your SKK needs to reduce to something like I using Savage Operator's rules alone.
18:35:19 <wWwwW> qeustion
18:35:36 <korvo> Don't ask to ask; just ask.
18:35:43 <wWwwW> true
18:36:19 <wWwwW> but like. you can infintly nest (λx. ), (λx.λy. x y), and (λx. x)
18:36:28 <wWwwW> those lambda expressions
18:36:49 <wWwwW> is that TC?
18:37:31 <korvo> That first one isn't an expression of lambda calculus.
18:37:34 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139222&oldid=139217 * Yayimhere * (+0)
18:37:42 <wWwwW> cant you do that?
18:38:00 <wWwwW> i didnt know
18:38:15 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139223&oldid=139222 * Yayimhere * (-6) /* operators */
18:38:21 <wWwwW> well
18:38:23 <wWwwW> fixed it
18:39:57 <korvo> Like, use De Bruijn indices. The second expression is λλ(10) and the third expression is λ0. The first expression is λ... and then what?
18:40:17 <wWwwW> k!
18:40:35 <wWwwW> wait the third one
18:40:41 <wWwwW> os just
18:40:45 <wWwwW> λ0.
18:40:50 <wWwwW> did you swap third
18:40:54 <wWwwW> and first?
18:41:57 <wWwwW> cuz looks like
18:42:00 <wWwwW> yea
18:42:08 <korvo> No, I think I got it right. De Bruijn indices are notoriously tricky, though. Think of a De Bruijn index as counting the number of lambda binders to the left in-between the variable's binding and its usage.
18:42:18 <wWwwW> k
18:42:32 <wWwwW> oh wait
18:42:33 <wWwwW> yea
18:42:40 <korvo> λ0 is definitely the way to express the identity function. I count starting from 0, which isn't universal; some people would write those as λ1 and λλ(21) respectively.
18:44:01 <wWwwW> wait
18:44:07 <wWwwW> but then λ...?
18:44:16 <wWwwW> how does that work?
18:44:23 <korvo> Anyway, the rest of the TC proof would start by constructing SII. I picked it because SIIx -> Ix(Ix) -> x(x). It applies things to themselves! This is a "Turing bird" and it's not always possible to build.
18:44:37 <wWwwW> oh cool!
18:44:51 <korvo> Oh, I don't know. That's what I'm saying; your (λx.) operator doesn't do something I understand in terms of LC.
18:45:32 <wWwwW> ok
18:45:36 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139224&oldid=139223 * Yayimhere * (+11) /* operators */
18:46:12 <korvo> Anyway, then notice that SII(SII) reduces to itself. This is sometimes called an "omega" expression.
18:46:22 <wWwwW> lol
18:46:25 <wWwwW> wow
18:46:49 <korvo> And then the TC-ness of SK is that we can't decide whether an expression is reducible to something that can't be reduced further, or whether reduction goes forever in a loop.
18:47:07 <wWwwW> yea
18:47:19 <wWwwW> ik that fact for once!dis is from when i wroked on why tho
18:47:21 <wWwwW> *worked
18:49:29 <wWwwW> anyway
18:49:31 <wWwwW> thx!
18:49:52 <esolangs> [[BrainfuckXT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139225&oldid=39212 * Ractangle * (+22) /* External resources */
18:52:08 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139226&oldid=44896 * Ractangle * (+22)
18:52:37 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139227&oldid=139224 * Yayimhere * (+17)
18:53:19 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139228&oldid=139227 * Yayimhere * (+1)
18:56:38 <wWwwW> but is netseting of λ(0) and λλ(1 0) tc?
18:56:41 <korvo> No worries. Glad that it's making more sense.
18:56:58 <wWwwW> wait
18:57:46 <wWwwW> wait no
18:57:59 <korvo> No, that basis isn't TC. In terms of combinators, it's not stronger than BCI.
18:58:11 <wWwwW> k
18:58:14 <wWwwW> wait why?
18:59:56 <korvo> Because all you can do is identity and composition, like the BI basis, or like the theory of categories. Because B has a couple different ways of being phrased, we usually include C too for a saner basis.
19:00:09 <wWwwW> k
19:00:13 <wWwwW> thx!
19:00:23 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139229&oldid=139228 * Yayimhere * (+61)
19:00:31 <wWwwW> wait now it should work
19:00:34 <wWwwW> since you can do
19:01:07 <wWwwW> ∞' (a i i)
19:01:10 <wWwwW> would reduce
19:01:26 <wWwwW> to λλ(0))
19:01:34 <wWwwW> *λλ(0)
19:01:36 <esolangs> [[Braintrust]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139230&oldid=35662 * Ractangle * (+12)
19:01:44 <wWwwW> which is K????
19:01:46 <wWwwW> TF
19:01:55 <wWwwW> nooo
19:02:00 <wWwwW> that shouldnt work
19:02:01 <wWwwW> noooo
19:02:08 <wWwwW> im sad for msome reason:(
19:02:11 <wWwwW> *some
19:03:12 <wWwwW> i think
19:03:14 <wWwwW> right?
19:03:14 <korvo> K gives you the ability to delete a value from the context. To make something like that, you need like λλ1, something that has a binder which goes unused.
19:03:55 <korvo> Also, S gives you the ability to duplicate a value. To make something like that, you'd need to use an index twice.
19:04:19 <wWwwW> oh yea
19:04:22 <wWwwW> but still
19:04:30 <wWwwW> λλ(0) is k
19:04:36 <wWwwW> starting indexing at 0
19:05:17 <korvo> It's the flip of K. Swapped arguments. It'll still work, as long as you keep in mind that it can't do the whole "konstant" thing that K is normally used for.
19:05:31 <korvo> Sometimes you'll see KI used for this.
19:05:34 <wWwwW> k
19:05:37 <wWwwW> thx!
19:06:32 <korvo> Anyway, that's why λ0 and λλ(10) can't be a basis. Both of these are *linear*; a linear term uses every bound variable exactly once.
19:06:44 <wWwwW> oh k
19:06:50 <wWwwW> wait
19:07:08 <korvo> And no basis of linear terms can be more expressive than BCI, because (hard part) there's an algorithm that turns any linear type signature into a BCI expression.
19:07:35 <wWwwW> ∞' (a (a e) i)
19:07:36 <wWwwW> is
19:07:55 <wWwwW> λλ(1 λ(0))
19:07:58 <wWwwW> or else
19:08:12 <wWwwW> its λλ(λ(1) 0)
19:09:23 <wWwwW> so
19:09:25 <wWwwW> wait
19:09:32 <wWwwW> λλ(λ(0) 0)
19:09:39 <wWwwW> is the correct one
19:09:41 <wWwwW> and then
19:09:46 <wWwwW> we would copy a term
19:10:24 <wWwwW> right?
19:11:16 <korvo> I don't think so, just from counting binders. Also note where parens are; they indicate applications, not abstractions.
19:11:29 <korvo> Like, I'm reading those as λλλ(10) and λλλ(00) respectively.
19:11:33 <wWwwW> parens?
19:11:44 <korvo> Parentheses ()
19:11:55 <wWwwW> oh yea
19:12:06 <wWwwW> korvo: re: and that is it
19:12:32 <korvo> In something like S, which I'll write λλλ((20)(10)) we see that index 0 is used twice at a single level of abstraction. That's a non-linear use.
19:12:46 <wWwwW> true
19:14:00 <esolangs> [[CompressedBF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139231&oldid=118924 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Interpreter */
19:14:08 <wWwwW> fuuuu
19:14:12 <wWwwW> im so stupid and dumb
19:14:32 <wWwwW> but still
19:14:40 <wWwwW> if λλλ(00)
19:14:43 <korvo> No, you're *inexperienced*. And I'm not really doing anything else right now.
19:14:44 <wWwwW> is correct
19:14:54 <wWwwW> we copied 0?
19:15:01 <wWwwW> korvo: true
19:15:27 <korvo> Copied it and applied it to itself. I don't know whether that's capable of building TC behavior, but I'm sure somebody's worked it out somewhere.
19:15:42 <wWwwW> yea
19:15:44 <wWwwW> but still
19:15:46 <wWwwW> it something
19:15:50 <wWwwW> wait
19:15:52 <wWwwW> WAIT
19:15:54 <wWwwW> WAAAAAIT
19:16:23 <wWwwW> i think ive got a sketch of S
19:16:27 <wWwwW> frist take A
19:16:29 <wWwwW> to a's
19:16:31 <wWwwW> wait no
19:16:33 <wWwwW> fuuu
19:16:53 <wWwwW> from now on ill bne suing normal lambda calculus
19:16:58 <wWwwW> to demonstarte my point
19:17:15 <wWwwW> take a a
19:17:19 <wWwwW> and a A
19:17:23 <wWwwW> with a input
19:17:27 <wWwwW> so
19:17:51 <wWwwW> λx.(λy. x y)
19:17:52 <wWwwW> and
19:17:57 <wWwwW> wait no
19:18:00 <wWwwW> aaa
19:18:09 <wWwwW> wait
19:18:18 <wWwwW> i have an operaotr i like to add
19:18:21 <wWwwW> wait
19:18:22 <wWwwW> no
19:18:24 <wWwwW> wont work
19:18:40 -!- Artea has joined.
19:18:44 <wWwwW> fuuuu
19:19:10 <wWwwW> λλ(1 0) is one bit of S
19:19:17 <wWwwW> ok
19:19:18 <wWwwW> so we have
19:19:24 <wWwwW> no
19:19:25 <wWwwW> fuuuu
19:19:38 <esolangs> [[Developers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139232&oldid=58335 * Ractangle * (+23)
19:19:53 <wWwwW> my braaaain is fried ._.
19:20:29 <wWwwW> wait
19:20:36 <wWwwW> i want to se BCKW
19:20:40 <wWwwW> rlly fast
19:20:44 <esolangs> [[DirectBrainFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139233&oldid=114430 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Implementations */
19:22:49 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139234&oldid=139229 * Yayimhere * (+68) /* operators */
19:23:02 <wWwwW> ok
19:25:01 <korvo> BCKW makes it more obvious how K and S/W serve those purposes of deleting and copying. BC should hopefully be understandable as a fragment of BCI and not just random combinators.
19:25:12 -!- tromp has joined.
19:25:28 <wWwwW> i understand B and C i think
19:25:52 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139235&oldid=139234 * Yayimhere * (+98) /* operators */
19:26:11 <wWwwW> ok
19:26:14 <wWwwW> i have found B
19:26:21 <wWwwW> B
19:26:22 <wWwwW> is
19:26:54 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139236&oldid=139235 * Yayimhere * (+20) /* operators */
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19:28:25 <wWwwW38> b' (x i u) a
19:28:29 <wWwwW38> dat B
19:28:31 <wWwwW38> i think
19:29:58 <wWwwW38> and C
19:30:30 <wWwwW38> idk
19:30:32 <wWwwW38> lemme think
19:30:57 <wWwwW38> wait
19:31:02 <wWwwW38> C=B right?
19:31:18 <wWwwW38> excuse me?!?!?:
19:31:18 <wWwwW38> B x y z = x (y z);
19:31:19 <wWwwW38> C x y z = x z y;
19:31:24 <wWwwW38> that are the same
19:31:42 <korvo> Not at all. Remember, parentheses are application.
19:32:00 <wWwwW38> oh
19:32:02 <wWwwW38> wait
19:32:03 <wWwwW38> wut
19:32:05 <wWwwW38> ok
19:32:11 <wWwwW38> now im even more fried
19:32:13 <korvo> Let's rename those variables. B g f x = g (f x); C f x y = f y x
19:32:19 <wWwwW38> sorry dis must be a pain
19:32:31 <wWwwW38> ok
19:32:38 <korvo> B is composition, like you'd find in a category. It takes two functions and glues them together, passing the output of one to the input of another.
19:32:51 <wWwwW38> ok
19:32:55 <wWwwW38> so
19:32:57 -!- wWwwW has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
19:33:02 <korvo> C is called a "flip". It takes a two-argument function and swaps the order in which the arguments will be given.
19:33:12 <wWwwW38> ok
19:33:13 <wWwwW38> ooooo
19:33:15 <wWwwW38> oooo
19:33:16 <wWwwW38> ok
19:33:18 <wWwwW38> okkkkk
19:33:22 <wWwwW38> makes lot more sense
19:34:06 -!- Snufkin has joined.
19:34:35 <wWwwW38> thx!
19:34:49 <korvo> This should also give you a feel for why BCI is limited. All we can do is identity, composition, and flip; we can take any arrangement of inputs and return all of them as outputs, but that's all.
19:35:26 <wWwwW38> yea
19:35:36 <wWwwW38> in BIC
19:35:40 <wWwwW38> if you consider the inputs
19:35:41 <wWwwW38> as a set
19:35:47 <wWwwW38> BCI can never do anything
19:35:49 <wWwwW38> right?
19:36:09 <korvo> Yep. It can only express permutations of that set. It is complete for permutations, though.
19:36:46 <wWwwW38> finnaly
19:36:51 <wWwwW38> my brain is understanding
19:36:54 <korvo> Have you seen Kleene's parameter theorem yet? Also called the Smn theorem. It's a very general statement about how to build functions.
19:37:08 <wWwwW38> no
19:37:10 <wWwwW38> i havent
19:37:33 <korvo> You need something like BCI, but you also need to be able to delete and copy values. And then Kleene shows how adding recursion lets us compute stuff.
19:38:37 <wWwwW38> ok
19:38:40 <wWwwW38> will make combinators
19:38:42 <wWwwW38> fuuu
19:38:45 <wWwwW38> so much noiuse
19:39:19 <korvo> No worries; I don't have anything else. Maybe it's time to take a break. Stand up, stretch, get more water, that sort of thing.
19:39:42 <wWwwW38> kk
19:39:43 <wWwwW38> will do
19:39:59 <wWwwW38> maybe i should stop listenging to insane trap msuic while doing this
19:40:01 <wWwwW38> xD
19:41:07 <esolangs> [[Emo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139237&oldid=43122 * Ractangle * (+23) /* See also */
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19:43:26 <wWwwW38> ok got be
19:43:28 <wWwwW38> C next
19:43:29 <wWwwW38> idk
19:44:42 <wWwwW38> skip C for now
19:44:45 <wWwwW38> C needed?
19:44:46 <wWwwW38> fr
19:44:47 <wWwwW38> tf
19:45:13 <wWwwW38> ok
19:45:14 <wWwwW38> W
19:45:46 <korvo> BI can't build C. Really. What's going on is that BI is for categories, and BCI is for categories with "finite products".
19:46:04 <wWwwW38> but in. BCKW
19:46:06 <wWwwW38> ???
19:46:34 <esolangs> [[Extended Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139238&oldid=49019 * Ractangle * (+22) /* Type III */
19:46:47 <esolangs> [[Extended Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139239&oldid=139238 * Ractangle * (-12) /* Type III */
19:47:04 <korvo> Hmmm. That's a good question. Note BCKW has to build I too.
19:47:21 <esolangs> [[Extended Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139240&oldid=139239 * Ractangle * (-52) /* Hello World! */
19:48:02 <korvo> So can BKW build I and then C? Dunno, could be an interesting research question.
19:48:23 <wWwwW38> true
19:49:55 <wWwwW38> W=a' e ( b' i (a' (d x i y) (d x i y) ) )
19:49:57 <wWwwW38> i think
19:50:01 <wWwwW38> they get LONG
19:50:13 <wWwwW38> wait
19:50:32 <wWwwW38> maybe BKWI maybe?
19:50:39 <wWwwW38> could create
19:50:42 <wWwwW38> C?
19:50:43 <wWwwW38> i wonder
19:51:30 <esolangs> [[FJ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139241&oldid=135503 * Ractangle * (+23) /* See also */
19:52:27 <wWwwW38> ok
19:52:28 <wWwwW38> we got B
19:52:31 <wWwwW38> W
19:52:32 <wWwwW38> K
19:52:33 <wWwwW38> and I
19:52:37 <wWwwW38> BWKI
19:53:07 <wWwwW38> W=a' e ( b' i (a' (d x i y) (d x i y) ) )
19:53:07 <wWwwW38> K=
19:53:12 <wWwwW38> B=b' (x i u) a
19:54:31 <esolangs> [[Fuck4]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139242&oldid=32618 * Ractangle * (+23) /* External resources */
19:55:12 <wWwwW38> B=b' (x i u) a
19:55:12 <wWwwW38> K=∞' (a i (d x i y))
19:55:13 <wWwwW38> W=a' e ( b' i (a' (d x i y) (d x i y) ) )
19:55:16 <wWwwW38> yaaaaay
19:55:26 <esolangs> [[FukYorBrane]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139243&oldid=54980 * Ractangle * (+20)
19:55:36 <esolangs> [[FukYorBrane]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139244&oldid=139243 * Ractangle * (+2)
19:55:40 <wWwwW38> idk
19:55:43 <wWwwW38> i think so
19:56:00 <korvo> If you say so. I'm not going to verify this, because I haven't written an interpreter. But I appreciate how much work you put into thinking about things and looking at your foundations.
19:56:10 <wWwwW38> true
19:56:20 <wWwwW38> thx:]!
19:56:35 <wWwwW38> holy s my brain is f'ed
19:56:39 <wWwwW38> with both fried
19:56:44 <wWwwW38> and the other f word
19:57:36 <esolangs> [[Golfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139245&oldid=68198 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Partial implementation in C++ */
19:57:41 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139246&oldid=139236 * Yayimhere * (-17) /* operators */
19:57:52 <wWwwW38> wait
19:58:02 <wWwwW38> c in unlambda is C in BCKW?
19:59:23 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139247&oldid=139246 * Yayimhere * (+37) /* operators */
19:59:26 <esolangs> [[Harmful Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139248&oldid=41547 * Ractangle * (+23)
20:00:22 <esolangs> [[HQ9Cfuckfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139249&oldid=136625 * Ractangle * (+22)
20:00:32 <wWwwW38> right?
20:00:35 <wWwwW38> but still
20:00:38 <wWwwW38> im vrey happy
20:00:48 <esolangs> [[Hq9eFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139250&oldid=54535 * Ractangle * (+23) /* External resources */
20:01:28 <esolangs> [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139251&oldid=139247 * Yayimhere * (+18) /* operators */
20:02:03 <wWwwW38> bye for now
20:02:09 -!- wWwwW38 has quit (Quit: Client closed).
20:03:50 <esolangs> [[ITMR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139252&oldid=123449 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Hello world program */
20:04:20 <esolangs> [[JSFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139253&oldid=126877 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Computational Class */
20:07:15 <esolangs> [[Malbrain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139254&oldid=120611 * Ractangle * (+23) /* See also */
20:08:55 <esolangs> [[Minimal-2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139255&oldid=46279 * Ractangle * (+23) /* External resources */
20:09:24 <esolangs> [[MiniStringFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139256&oldid=79475 * Ractangle * (+23) /* See also */
20:14:55 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139257&oldid=139097 * Ractangle * (+111)
20:15:41 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139258&oldid=139257 * Ractangle * (+40)
20:17:36 <esolangs> [[Not a brainfuck derivative]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139259&oldid=90069 * Ractangle * (+23)
20:20:17 <esolangs> [[PainLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139260&oldid=87082 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Interpreters */
20:21:23 <esolangs> [[PenisScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139261&oldid=103699 * Ractangle * (+23) /* External resources */
20:23:02 <esolangs> [[Pointer-ng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139262&oldid=70962 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Interpreters */
20:24:21 <esolangs> [[Random Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139263&oldid=114995 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Interpreters */
20:25:30 <esolangs> [[RedefineFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139264&oldid=124852 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Example(s) */
20:26:39 <esolangs> [[ReverseFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139265&oldid=137889 * Ractangle * (+23) /* See also */
20:30:36 <esolangs> [[Stacked Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139266&oldid=70990 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Computational class */
20:31:13 <esolangs> [[Surreal Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139267&oldid=44865 * Ractangle * (+23)
20:32:04 <esolangs> [[Ternary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139268&oldid=109064 * Ractangle * (+23) /* External resources */
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20:40:33 <esolangs> [[XMLfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139269&oldid=43016 * Ractangle * (+23) i am tierd
20:41:52 <esolangs> [[Zero]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139270&oldid=41272 * Ractangle * (+23) It's almost over
20:45:20 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139271&oldid=133268 * Ractangle * (-2) it's over
20:46:54 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139272&oldid=139258 * Ractangle * (+41)
21:01:37 -!- zzo38 has joined.
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21:28:04 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139273 * Ractangle * (+33) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title={{Spoiler|}}}}"
21:31:31 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139274&oldid=139273 * Ractangle * (+79)
21:38:42 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139275&oldid=139274 * Ractangle * (+145) /* Syntax */
21:39:21 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139276&oldid=139275 * Ractangle * (+0)
21:39:38 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139277&oldid=139276 * Ractangle * (-2) /* Challenge */
21:40:06 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139278&oldid=139277 * Ractangle * (+3) /* Challenge */
21:40:32 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139279&oldid=139278 * Ractangle * (+12)
21:45:32 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139280&oldid=139279 * Ractangle * (+59) /* Challenge */
21:48:38 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139281&oldid=139280 * Ractangle * (-3) /* Challenge */
21:50:42 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139282&oldid=139281 * Ractangle * (+4) /* Challenge */
21:50:54 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139283&oldid=139282 * Ractangle * (+3) /* Challenge */
21:53:09 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139284&oldid=139283 * Ractangle * (+4) /* Challenge */
21:53:27 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139285&oldid=139284 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Challenge */
21:57:27 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139286&oldid=139285 * Ractangle * (+18)
22:00:24 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139287&oldid=139272 * Ractangle * (+29) /* Esolangs */
22:00:41 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139288&oldid=139287 * Ractangle * (-29) /* Esolangs */
22:01:59 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139289&oldid=139288 * Ractangle * (+47)
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22:21:58 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139290&oldid=139286 * Ractangle * (+5)
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22:23:36 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139291&oldid=139290 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Challenge */
22:25:06 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139292&oldid=139291 * Ractangle * (+15)
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22:30:39 <esolangs> [[Spoiler]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139293 * Ractangle * (+22) Redirected page to [[Spoiler:]]
22:54:39 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139294&oldid=139292 * Ractangle * (+289)
22:56:31 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139295&oldid=139294 * Ractangle * (+43) /* Guessed parts of syntax */
22:58:11 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139296&oldid=139295 * Ractangle * (+76) /* Guessed parts of syntax */
22:58:46 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139297&oldid=139296 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Guessed parts of syntax */
23:03:52 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139298&oldid=139297 * RainbowDash * (+61) /* Guessed parts of syntax */
23:09:57 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139299&oldid=139298 * Ractangle * (+109) /* Guessed parts of syntax */
23:11:24 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139300&oldid=139299 * Ractangle * (+94) /* Guessed parts of syntax */
23:11:47 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139301&oldid=139300 * RainbowDash * (+5) /* Guessed parts of syntax */
23:13:21 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139302&oldid=139301 * Ractangle * (+9) /* Guessed parts of syntax */
23:14:01 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139303&oldid=139302 * Ractangle * (-15) I will come up with more syntax later
23:14:22 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139304&oldid=139303 * RainbowDash * (+23) /* Guessed parts of syntax */
23:15:19 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139305&oldid=139289 * Ractangle * (+29) /* Esolangs */
23:18:34 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139306&oldid=139304 * Ractangle * (+60) /* Challenge */
23:20:03 <esolangs> [[A+B Problem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139307&oldid=138768 * Ractangle * (+30) /* Spam */
23:20:35 <esolangs> [[A+B Problem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139308&oldid=139307 * Ractangle * (+13) /* {{Spoiler|}} */
23:21:06 <esolangs> [[A+B Problem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139309&oldid=139308 * Ractangle * (+2) /* {{Spoiler|}} */
23:23:47 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139310&oldid=138666 * Ractangle * (+60) /* Splinter */
23:27:47 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139311&oldid=139306 * Ractangle * (+5) /* Challenge */
23:28:18 <esolangs> [[A+B Problem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139312&oldid=139309 * Ractangle * (+5) /* {{Spoiler|}} */
23:32:55 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139313&oldid=139311 * Ractangle * (+214) /* Guessed parts of syntax */
23:35:35 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139314&oldid=139313 * Ractangle * (+29) /* Syntax */
23:51:31 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139315&oldid=139314 * RainbowDash * (+71) /* Syntax */
23:52:29 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139316&oldid=139315 * RainbowDash * (+2) /* Syntax */
23:54:15 <esolangs> [[Spoiler:]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139317&oldid=139316 * RainbowDash * (-66) /* Syntax */
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