00:01:03 <esolangs> [[Fractran]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139540&oldid=134188 * Corbin * (+296) Stub an infobox, flesh out the introduction, and give corresponding references.
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00:18:39 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139541&oldid=139425 * Rosenthal * (+265) /* Header comment */ Generalize section to comment loops and rephrase
01:35:28 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139542&oldid=139528 * PrySigneToFry * (+677)
01:37:24 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139543&oldid=139527 * PrySigneToFry * (+617) /* About the wrong name of category */
01:38:48 <esolangs> [[BubbleLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139544&oldid=139526 * PrySigneToFry * (+24)
01:40:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:Gd auto level]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139545&oldid=139343 * PrySigneToFry * (+0) Some command is mistake
01:44:57 <esolangs> [[De Bruijn indexing]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139546 * Corbin * (+2427) This seemed like something that could be factored out of multiple pages.
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01:46:36 <esolangs> [[BubbleLang/Error]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139547&oldid=139519 * PrySigneToFry * (+592)
01:47:35 <esolangs> [[BubbleLang/Examples]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139548&oldid=139503 * PrySigneToFry * (+62)
01:48:53 <esolangs> [[FUCK YOU VIBEZONDISCORD]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139549 * Tommyaweosme * (+946) Created page with "FUCK YOU VIBEZONDISCORD is an esolang made by [[user:tommyaweosme]] == commands == just got banned on pixilart - increment command pointer the fun from my birthday a week ago has faded.... - decrement command pointer why is life still worth it? -
01:51:37 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139550&oldid=138494 * Tommyaweosme * (+198)
01:56:09 <esolangs> [[De Bruijn indexing]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139551&oldid=139546 * Corbin * (+135) Switching to 1-indexing. All examples on the wiki appear 1-indexed, so let's fit in.
02:00:13 <esolangs> [[Binary lambda calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139552&oldid=139529 * Corbin * (-2090) Move intro on De Bruijn indices to [[De Bruijn indexing]] and bluelink there.
02:06:38 <esolangs> [[Universal Lambda]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139553&oldid=94098 * Corbin * (-60) Bluelink BLC and De Bruijn indices.
02:07:34 <esolangs> [[Bruijndejx]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139554&oldid=24907 * Corbin * (-23) Bluelink De Bruijn indices.
02:12:37 <esolangs> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139555&oldid=94683 * Corbin * (-212) Bluelink De Bruijn indices. Also clean up a bit of punctuation and remove stray WP links.
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04:47:03 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/tommyaweosme english]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139556&oldid=131090 * PrySigneToFry * (+72)
04:55:23 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/PSTF Again5]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139557 * PrySigneToFry * (+971) Created page with "Let's be crazier with [[Translated ORK/None1 again3]]! 1. PrOgRaM <pre> No, I am not. No, I am not. No, I am not. The record of a great historian, Don't use an external lock. Leaves hidden about vegetables and fruits. Attacks can be treated as o
04:56:01 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/None1 again3]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139558&oldid=138467 * PrySigneToFry * (+51)
05:05:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:Gift]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139559 * PrySigneToFry * (+168) /* Test code */ new section
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06:03:07 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139560&oldid=138124 * Rosenthal * (-16) /* Truth-machine (kinda) */ Reword comments for clarity and not use non-comment chars
06:12:46 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139561&oldid=139560 * Rosenthal * (+0) /* Cell Size */ Move output out of comment
06:40:07 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139562&oldid=139561 * Rosenthal * (-94) Update http:// links
06:40:40 <esolangs> [[Translated HZFunge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139563 * PrySigneToFry * (+2165) Created page with "Translated HZFunge is designed by PSTF. 1. Take the Sieve of Erathosenes program: <pre> ..."
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06:56:04 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139564&oldid=139562 * Rosenthal * (+0) /* Cell Size */ Make header case consistent with the others
07:05:27 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139565&oldid=139508 * PrySigneToFry * (+112) /* Horribly translated variants */
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07:24:13 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139566&oldid=139565 * MihaiEso * (+1) /* Horribly translated variants */
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09:03:14 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139567&oldid=139530 * Ractangle * (-2) /* 8ial */
09:04:59 <esolangs> [[8ial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139568&oldid=139498 * Ractangle * (+38) /* Syntax */
09:18:43 <esolangs> [[8ial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139569&oldid=139568 * Ractangle * (+78) /* Syntax */
09:20:33 <esolangs> [[8ial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139570&oldid=139569 * Ractangle * (+56) /* Syntax */
09:22:26 <esolangs> [[8ial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139571&oldid=139570 * Ractangle * (+8) /* Truth-machine */
09:25:48 <esolangs> [[8ial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139572&oldid=139571 * Ractangle * (+54) /* Truth-machine */
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09:26:56 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139573&oldid=139410 * Ractangle * (+78) /* 8xn */
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09:53:04 <esolangs> [[,(*+)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139574&oldid=136703 * Ractangle * (+23)
10:45:41 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139575 * PrySigneToFry * (+1758) Created page with " is designed by PSTF. == Command Table == {| class="wikitable" |+ Command Table |- ! CMD !! Meaning |- | || Increases the accumulator |- | || Decreases the accumulator |- | || Squares the accumulator |- | || Output the value of accumulator as integer |} == Examples
10:46:26 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139576&oldid=139417 * PrySigneToFry * (+13)
10:47:24 <esolangs> [[2 Bits and Bytes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139577&oldid=129110 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Interpreters */
10:48:10 <esolangs> [[2 Bits, 1 Byte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139578&oldid=129304 * Ractangle * (+23) /* See also */
10:48:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139579&oldid=139129 * None1 * (+326) /* Translate it even scarier if thouyou want. */
10:48:52 <esolangs> [[2 Bits, 256 Bytes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139580&oldid=108703 * Ractangle * (+23)
10:51:54 <esolangs> [[3 Bits, 1.5 Bytes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139581&oldid=131201 * Ractangle * (+23) /* See also */
10:54:41 <esolangs> [[420]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139582&oldid=132821 * Ractangle * (+22) /* Hello, world! */
10:55:37 <esolangs> [[5D 5D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel With Multiverse Time Travel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139583&oldid=91791 * Ractangle * (+13)
10:56:44 <esolangs> [[BubbleLang/Error]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139584&oldid=139547 * None1 * (+13) /* CalculationError */ arcsin only defined between -1 and 1
10:59:28 <esolangs> [[A language so useless it only has one command]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139585&oldid=130849 * Ractangle * (+23) /* The command */
11:24:03 <esolangs> [[^]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139586&oldid=127629 * None1 * (+86) /* Uncomputability proof */
11:26:57 <esolangs> [[User talk:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139587&oldid=139523 * None1 * (+301) /* I'm glad about you're "revived" in the Esolang Wiki. */
11:27:44 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139588&oldid=138819 * Unname4798 * (+345)
11:30:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:MihaiEso]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139589&oldid=139587 * None1 * (+118) /* I'm glad about you're "revived" in the Esolang Wiki. */
11:31:00 <esolangs> [[User talk:MihaiEso]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139590&oldid=139589 * None1 * (-1) /* I'm glad about you're "revived" in the Esolang Wiki. */
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11:46:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:Gift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139591&oldid=139559 * None1 * (+302)
11:47:54 <esolangs> [[AAEEEEEEEEEI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139592&oldid=82900 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Usage */
11:52:56 <esolangs> [[FUCK YOU VIBEZONDISCORD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139593&oldid=139549 * None1 * (+80)
11:53:42 <esolangs> [[Analog Synth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139594&oldid=59866 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Possible improvements */
11:55:23 <esolangs> [[Anarchysm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139595&oldid=103449 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Implementation */
11:56:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139596&oldid=139542 * None1 * (+435) /* Please check my Turing completeness proof for 2KWLang */ new section
12:02:26 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139597&oldid=139596 * None1 * (+10) /* Please check my Turing completeness proof for 2KWLang */
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12:11:57 <esolangs> [[List of quines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139598&oldid=138967 * None1 * (+105) /* /// */ new 2kwlang quine
12:41:57 <esolangs> [[APLBAONWSJAS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139599&oldid=120113 * Ractangle * (+23) /* In other languages */
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12:44:29 <esolangs> [[Assemblei]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139600&oldid=72986 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Programs */
12:45:18 <esolangs> [[Auld Lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139601&oldid=68758 * Ractangle * (+24) /* External resources */
12:46:22 <esolangs> [[AWO]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139602&oldid=53900 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Text output */
12:50:10 <esolangs> [[Baby Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139603&oldid=57896 * Ractangle * (+23)
12:53:25 <esolangs> [[Base2e15text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139604&oldid=139517 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Categories */
12:54:50 <esolangs> [[Base64 Text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139605&oldid=131214 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Development environments */
12:56:23 <esolangs> [[Baselang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139606&oldid=121110 * Ractangle * (+8) /* Commands */
12:58:23 <esolangs> [[Self]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139607&oldid=125130 * Yourusername * (+54)
12:59:11 <esolangs> [[Beecode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139608&oldid=69110 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Name Origins */
12:59:15 <esolangs> [[Self 2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139609 * Yourusername * (+108) Created page with "Self 2 is a programming language where if you type two "Self"s, it prints two "Self"s == Quine == Self Self"
13:01:53 <esolangs> [[Self 2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139610&oldid=139609 * Yourusername * (+265)
13:07:04 <esolangs> [[Self but with loops]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139611 * Yourusername * (+491) Created page with "self has loops now == commands == self now prints the thing before it and itself, Ex: haha self would print haha self loop loops the code behind it the number after it, Ex: haha self loop 5 would print haha self haha self haha self haha self haha self
13:25:02 <esolangs> [[Worder]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139612 * Yourusername * (+458) Created page with "a language that uses your text input to generate code == Example+output == hello hi cat program what greet>noun greet = ? noun = ? Output will use neural network stuff to find greetings and nouns Ex: greet = [hello, hi] Ex: noun = [cat, program] Ex: other = [
13:29:18 <esolangs> [[This]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139613&oldid=97022 * Yourusername * (+30)
13:29:59 <esolangs> [[This]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139614&oldid=139613 * Yourusername * (+0)
13:31:09 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AinoFin * New user account
13:46:16 <esolangs> [[Laughing my off]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139615 * None1 * (+1040) Created page with "'''Laughing my off''' (The unprintable character between the two spaces is '''ASS''' ('''A'''CTIVATE '''S'''YMMETRIC '''S'''WAPPING), U+206B), a.k.a '''Laughing my ASS off''', a.k.a '''lmao''', is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]]. It is like [[turning tarpi
13:47:31 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139616&oldid=139566 * None1 * (+87) /* General languages */
13:48:08 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139617&oldid=138574 * None1 * (+87) /* My Esolangs */
13:49:01 <esolangs> [[Lmao]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139618 * None1 * (+33) Redirected page to [[Laughing my off]]
13:49:21 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139619&oldid=139617 * None1 * (+0) typo
13:49:55 <wWwwW> what do you think?: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bring_to_another
13:50:17 <int-e> . o O ( Another one? )
13:51:08 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139620&oldid=139616 * None1 * (+0) /* General languages */
13:51:37 <esolangs> [[Laughing my ASS off]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139621 * None1 * (+33) Redirected page to [[Laughing my off]]
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13:51:57 <esolangs> [[Laughing my ass off]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139622 * None1 * (+33) Redirected page to [[Laughing my off]]
13:52:38 <int-e> It's a thought bubble :-P
13:52:53 <wWwwW> ??im so confused??
13:53:17 <int-e> Well, you asked for thoughts.
13:53:54 <esolangs> [[Laughing my off]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139623&oldid=139615 * None1 * (+93) /* XKCD Random Number */
13:56:48 <esolangs> [[Laughing my off]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139624&oldid=139623 * None1 * (+17)
13:56:59 <esolangs> [[Laughing my off]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139625&oldid=139624 * None1 * (-1) /* Translator to Deadfish in Python= */
14:07:50 <esolangs> [[BubbleLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139626&oldid=139544 * PrySigneToFry * (+113)
14:15:55 <esolangs> [[Laughing my off]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139627&oldid=139625 * None1 * (+0) /* Commands */
14:17:11 <esolangs> [[Turning tarpit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139628&oldid=138906 * None1 * (+50) /* See also */
14:18:26 <wWwwW> hey can i do some stuff
14:18:38 <wWwwW> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload#A_two-command_basis_for_a_pure_concatenative_language
14:20:24 <wWwwW> how would you do ()?
14:22:33 <int-e> it goes back to the earlier reduced Underload with :()^
14:22:51 <wWwwW> but where is the () in it
14:22:53 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139629 * PrySigneToFry * (+1383) Created page with "'''' is designed by PSTF. == Syntax == There are Th True En..."
14:24:14 <int-e> You get () in pairs from `a`.
14:24:48 <int-e> So you can construct any program that has :, ^, and balanced parentheses as a string. And you can execute that using ^
14:24:49 <esolangs> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139630&oldid=139598 * PrySigneToFry * (+73)
14:25:09 <wWwwW> sorry if im being stupid but im so confused rn
14:25:11 <int-e> That's why (:) and (^) are on that list but not :.
14:25:56 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139631&oldid=139620 * PrySigneToFry * (+34)
14:29:17 <int-e> Hmm... actually, how do you get ()... you'd need an empty string for that.
14:30:05 <wWwwW> what if the stack just had that on the top?
14:32:02 <int-e> I suppose you could modify M to have an additional () case.
14:33:03 <int-e> Or maybe there's a reason why () isn't needed but the preceding section uses () quite a bit.
14:58:47 <int-e> It's probably fine though... (~~) can be used instead of () for the most part; the only caveat is that we need to add two dummy elements to the stack at the start.
15:02:53 <esolangs> [[Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139632&oldid=122705 * Int-e * (+262) /* A two-command basis for a pure concatenative language */ close a gap
15:05:48 <esolangs> [[Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139633&oldid=139632 * Int-e * (+14) /* A two-command basis for a pure concatenative language */ but now we need ~
15:28:44 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139634&oldid=139629 * Unname4798 * (-773) remove zalgo text
15:30:36 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139635&oldid=139501 * AinoFin * (+137)
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17:12:37 <b_jonas> Digitalmars's D and golang are compiled languages that both have key-value mappings as built-in types.
17:14:04 <b_jonas> When I was young, my master source for phone numbers I know was my dead-tree pocket calendar. These had dedicated empty pages for phone numbers and similar useful notes, often even marked with starting letters. In English you'd call a dead-tree notebook in such a role a "telephone register".
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17:16:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Value1 * New user account
17:20:36 <b_jonas> C++ has deprecated and later removed the old "register" keyword, which used to be a storage class specifier in old C, but turns out to be no longer useful. I think at some point they considered to use it for C++ modules, but it doesn't seem like that's happening.
17:20:45 <b_jonas> fungot: draw your own conculsion
17:20:45 <fungot> b_jonas: fnord damaged by attempts to move it. ( btw i was talking about rscheme there.
17:24:48 <korvo> esolangs: With regards to lambda calculus, what is a De Bruijn index?
17:24:58 <esolangs> korvo: A De Bruijn index is a unique identifier for a variable in a lambda calculus expression. It's essentially a way to represent a variable's position within a function's arguments. Think of it like a label for each variable, allowing you to track its usage and position within a complex expression.
17:26:51 <korvo> esolangs: What's the difference between the DeBruijn programming language and De Bruijn indexing?
17:28:09 <esolangs> korvo: DeBruijn is the programming language, while De Bruijn indexing is a way to represent data in the language. DeBruijn indexing uses a system of "De Bruijn indices" to represent data. These indices are numbers from 0 to 9, and they are used to represent data in a way that is similar to how we use numbers in mathematics. DeBruijn is a functional...
17:28:09 <esolangs> programming language that uses De Bruijn indices to represent data.
17:29:22 <korvo> Not too bad. It sounds like it's using slightly older versions of pages; maybe the RAG database is a copy of the live database?
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17:30:24 <ais523> int-e: you can create, e.g., ((a)!) if you need an empty string
17:34:39 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139636&oldid=139635 * Value1 * (+224) :3
17:37:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139637&oldid=138356 * Value1 * (+101) ehehe
17:38:22 <tromp> i didn't know there's a DeBruijn programming language. I only know the one called bruijn ( https://bruijn.marvinborner.de/ )
17:38:55 <esolangs> [[Boyfriend.xml]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139638&oldid=93093 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Architecture */
17:40:00 <esolangs> [[Brainbrain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139639&oldid=30904 * Ractangle * (+23) /* See also */
17:43:41 <b_jonas> korvo: De Bruijn index is a way to identify a variable in lambda calculus with its depth in the stack from the stack top, so the same binding will have different De Bruijn indexes in different places depending on how many lambdas deep below that you are.
17:44:05 <esolangs> [[Bubblegum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139640&oldid=139105 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Reference implementation */
17:44:58 <b_jonas> korvo: see https://esolangs.org?curid=8360 for the most well-known language that uses De Bruijn indexes to identify its variables
17:45:41 <tromp> isn't BLC a better known language?
17:49:36 <b_jonas> bacon lettude calculus? it might be.
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18:00:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:2KWLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139641&oldid=138970 * Ais523 * (+453) /* Comparison operators */ new section
18:19:10 <esolangs> [[User:HecknTarnation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139642&oldid=85136 * Yayimhere * (+4) link to YATDEL
18:21:23 <int-e> ais523: there's no !
18:22:38 <int-e> ais523: That particular construction targets the :^() fragment. But it uses ~ as an auxiliary operation so that's also available.
18:22:41 <korvo> b_jonas: Oh, sweet, thanks for pointing this out. I missed it last night.
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18:23:25 <korvo> tromp: Yeah, I've found like half a dozen small languages that are merely syntax over LC, including a couple that are just BLC with decoration.
18:23:28 <int-e> ( :^() is happier than :()^ )
18:25:14 <int-e> ais523: Actually I don't know what you're saying.
18:26:05 <int-e> ais523: Sorry. Okay, yes that's a program fragment that is effectively a no-op.
18:26:19 <esolangs> [[Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139643&oldid=35988 * Corbin * (-15) Bluelink De Bruijn indices.
18:27:04 <int-e> ais523: So yeah you're right, that works.
18:30:14 <int-e> ais523: Sorry. No, it doesn't work because we're building a program as a string and the only symbols we have available as strings in the M^ derivative are :()^~ ...I lost track of the goal.
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18:39:40 <b_jonas> you can just similarly make another unlambda combinator similar to M but that provides more builtins, including ordinary and parenthisized and versions of all commands, so that you can assemble any string using that combinator and application, right?
18:40:29 <int-e> Yeah you could modify M so that it produces () as an extra case
18:41:24 <int-e> b_jonas: if you look at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload#A_two-command_basis_for_a_pure_concatenative_language you'll see that this is the underlying idea
18:42:20 <int-e> M = (~)[any list of primitives](!...!)
18:42:46 <int-e> with just enough ! that M^ acts as !
18:42:51 <b_jonas> I don't mean () but rather make it produce each of (^), (:), (!), (~), (*), (a), (S), and then you can combine those using * and a to get any string
18:44:27 <int-e> I don't understand how that's different from what it does except that it doesn't have *all* those primitives but strives to have a minimal set of them instead.
18:45:12 <b_jonas> right, that's the difference that I mean
18:45:24 <korvo> b_jonas: Oh, by the way, if you have any ideas for [[De Bruijn indexing]], feel free to improve it. It's an infamously difficult topic and I know my wording is pretty bad.
18:45:41 <korvo> I'm here to write legally distinct public-domain text that isn't plagiarized, not to write good text.
18:45:49 <b_jonas> this way you don't have to compile to an inefficient :()^ underload program, but can compile to any normal sane underload program
18:46:08 <int-e> Adding () would give you ()a as a way to construct (()). Which is the thing that's missing compared to the :()^ fragment.
18:46:39 <b_jonas> yeah, you can add that too
18:46:44 <int-e> Yeah I don't care about efficiency.
18:50:05 <b_jonas> wait, you actually already have (^), (:), (~), (a), (*) easily constructable from the M on the wiki page, so only (!) is missing, and I think you can extract the (!!!!!!) and then construct ((~)(~)(~)(~)(~)!!!!!!) from that and that's basically a (!)
18:50:20 <b_jonas> so I think the original M is already complete except for the S builtin
18:55:03 <int-e> b_jonas: Oh. Yes, that'll work.
19:03:26 <esolangs> [[Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139644&oldid=139633 * Int-e * (-48) /* A two-command basis for a pure concatenative language */ document idea by [User:b_jonas]
19:10:00 <esolangs> [[Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139645&oldid=139644 * Int-e * (+149) /* A two-command basis for a pure concatenative language */ continuing idea by [User:b_jonas]
19:10:58 <int-e> fizzie: Hmm, what's the timeout for users that don't want to be remembered when logging in? I'm not sure if that's what I'm running into, but if I am, it's rather short.
19:11:06 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
19:11:40 <b_jonas> int-e: I think that just means until your browser exits. cookies have such a flag.
19:11:52 <b_jonas> the timeout shouldn't differ.
19:11:54 <int-e> Well I lost three edits to something and had to do them over.
19:12:19 <int-e> With cookies, without javascript, and without checking the "remember me" box.
19:13:18 <int-e> Oh great another detail I lost. One more edit...
19:13:47 <esolangs> [[Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139646&oldid=139645 * Int-e * (-14) /* A two-command basis for a pure concatenative language */ (~) is not used anymore
19:14:18 <int-e> b_jonas: Anyway, great idea, thanks!
19:14:53 <int-e> obvious in retrospect... but that's often how it goes.
19:24:57 <ais523> int-e: at least in Firefox, the back button will reclaim your partially written edit – are other browsers worse in that respect?
19:26:33 <ais523> int-e: did you miss that the construction can also create (a) and (*) (the same way as creating a and *, but without the ^ at the end)?
19:26:51 <ais523> so you get the :~!()a*^ fragment, which is the entire language except for I/O
19:27:18 <int-e> I didn't exactly miss that, no.
19:27:54 <ais523> I guess you could make I/O work by putting the entire ASCII table inside M, but that would be a bit inelegant (the way Underload strings can be treated as either strings or functions is already a bit inelegant, except for writing quines)
19:28:46 <int-e> it appears that ! is more valuable than a and * though.
19:30:09 <int-e> ais523: Also Firefox lost that particular edit, presumably because I wasn't considered "logged in" when I went back, so it gave me "view page" instead of "edit page".
19:30:39 <ais523> ah, that might explain it
19:56:40 <esolangs> [[CPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139647&oldid=91571 * Ractangle * (+23)
19:57:03 <esolangs> [[CRalphabet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139648&oldid=43378 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Implementation */
19:57:35 <esolangs> [[CurSorn2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139649&oldid=94814 * Ractangle * (+23)
20:00:42 <esolangs> [[COCAINE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139650&oldid=73746 * Ractangle * (+22)
20:08:25 <esolangs> [[DetailedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139651&oldid=131467 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Interpreter */
20:09:15 <esolangs> [[Developers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139652&oldid=139232 * Ractangle * (+23) /* External resources */
20:13:59 <esolangs> [[*python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139653&oldid=138561 * Ractangle * (-7) /* Truth-machine */
20:17:37 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139654&oldid=139305 * Ractangle * (-36) /* Esolangs */
20:19:44 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139655&oldid=139588 * Tommyaweosme * (+308) /* What? */
20:25:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[An esolang inspired by a mobile game engine by the name of Castle]] to [[Dish]]
20:25:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[Talk:An esolang inspired by a mobile game engine by the name of Castle]] to [[Talk:Dish]]
20:27:08 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139660&oldid=139656 * Ractangle * (-1749) Replaced content with "{{Stub}} '''Dish''' (or '''D'''ead f'''ISH''') is a [[deadfish]] inspired esolang created by [[User:Ractangle]]"
20:29:03 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139661&oldid=139660 * Ractangle * (+143)
20:31:52 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139662&oldid=139661 * Ractangle * (+39) /* Syntax */
20:38:35 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139663&oldid=139662 * Ractangle * (+107) /* Syntax */
20:42:26 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139664&oldid=139663 * Ractangle * (+12) /* Syntax */
20:44:34 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139665&oldid=139664 * Ractangle * (+72) /* Syntax */
20:46:46 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139666&oldid=139665 * Ractangle * (+61) /* Syntax */
20:47:41 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139667&oldid=139666 * Ractangle * (+26) /* Syntax */
20:49:34 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139668&oldid=139667 * Ractangle * (+39) /* Syntax */
20:51:19 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139669&oldid=139668 * Ractangle * (+73) /* Syntax */
20:53:20 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139670&oldid=139669 * Ractangle * (+55) /* Syntax */
20:55:48 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139671&oldid=139670 * Ractangle * (+35) /* Examples */
21:00:08 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139672&oldid=139671 * Ractangle * (+40) /* The powers of two */
21:00:30 <fizzie> int-e: I believe there's some sort of weirdness around the state storage that I've never really figured out.
21:01:21 <fizzie> Specifically, the configuration I inherited sets $wgMainCacheType = CACHE_ACCEL, and we don't set $wgSessionCacheType. According to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgSessionCacheType "[i]f $wgMainCacheType is set to CACHE_ACCEL and this is left at its default CACHE_ANYTHING, the cache used may not meet these requirements."
21:02:36 <fizzie> So I think it's quite possible there's a certain degree of luck involved in whether you stay logged in or not, depending on the whims of the web server, PHP, and other things of that nature.
21:04:26 <fizzie> Potentially I should set $wgSessionCacheType to CACHE_DB to use the database for persistent session storage, though I don't know if that has some performance implications.
21:04:51 <fizzie> (Because I've definitely been unexpectedly logged out from the wiki as well.)
21:05:26 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139673&oldid=139672 * Ractangle * (+83) /* The powers of two */
21:08:38 -!- tromp has joined.
21:09:40 <zzo38> How to make in C, that the end of a structure must be aligned (in the definition of the structure)?
21:14:43 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139674&oldid=139673 * Ractangle * (+121) /* Syntax */
21:15:57 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139675&oldid=139674 * Ractangle * (+5) /* Syntax */
21:17:19 <b_jonas> zzo38: just the end, or both the start and end?
21:18:05 <b_jonas> normally you get both the start and end to be aligned, since that's what the C compiler directly supports, and that way the structure works aligned in an array; I don't think you can make a partial structure that has alignment but doesn't fill out whole aligned blocks
21:18:08 <zzo38> I would think that the start would already be aligned if necessary
21:18:42 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139676&oldid=139675 * Ractangle * (+117) /* Syntax */
21:19:19 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139677&oldid=139676 * Ractangle * (-61) /* Syntax */
21:19:47 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139678&oldid=139677 * Ractangle * (+14) /* Syntax */
21:20:06 <zzo38> I do not mean in an array, though; I mean that if you put something at the address of the end of the structure, that it will be aligned regardless of what you put there (e.g. using malloc and memcpy, or something else like that)
21:23:32 <b_jonas> zzo38: in any case, in modern C you `#include <stdalign.h>` then put `alignas(32)` before the first data member in the struct type definition, replace 32 with the number of bytes that you want to align to. this makes that particular member aligned to at least 32 bytes, and as a consequence it also makes the start and end of the struct aligned to 32 bytes, with extra padding in the struct if necessary
21:24:30 <b_jonas> in earlier C you can sometimes use a compiler-specific attribute that works similar to alignas, or use a union with a built-in or library type that has the necessary alignment
21:24:35 <zzo38> I want the same alignment as malloc.
21:24:59 <fizzie> There's also `alignas (max_align_t)`, which I imagine should match `malloc`.
21:26:43 <zzo38> I don't know if I have that on my computer though
21:27:54 <fizzie> References: `malloc` returns memory that is "suitably aligned so that it may be assigned to a pointer to any type of object with a fundamental alignment requirement" (C11 7.22.3p1); a /fundamental alignment requirement/ is "an alignment less than or equal to the greatest alignment supported by the implementation in all contexts, which is equal to `_Alignof (max_align_t)`" (C11 6.2.8p2).
21:28:05 <b_jonas> zzo38: for max_align_t you need to `#include <stddef.h>` and (either use `-std=c11` or some similar compiler option, or define the correct feature request macro before you include anything)
21:30:14 <b_jonas> I guess you probably just want `-std=c11` or some higher compiler option, since you want the alignas keyword too, rather than the compiler-specific stuff, unless you're editing the rare old C source that you can't easily port to be C11-compatible (eg. because it calls prototype-less functions or declares functions without return type)
21:34:55 <zzo38> I also had some ideas of a variant of C programming language. I might be able to add extra steps before and after the preprocessor, but some things I would want to not have to do separately than the parser because I might want to e.g. handle custom members in structures, and to substitute when the C preprocessor reads files as input, etc. Can this be done without rewriting the entire compiler?
21:43:23 <zzo38> (Some such features can include: scoped macros, aliased definitions, custom definitions in structures, TRON strongs, etc)
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21:45:16 <b_jonas> zzo38: on extra steps before and after the preprocessor, see https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2024-09.html#lnrb
21:45:44 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139679&oldid=128498 * Aadenboy * (+1387) test
21:46:52 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139680&oldid=139679 * Aadenboy * (+3300) 2
21:46:56 <b_jonas> basically you can ask the compiler to do the preprocessing and the rest of the compilation separately. you should just usually make sure to pass mostly the same options to the preprocessing, compiling, and linking steps, unless you have a good reason to make the flags differ, because some options can influence all three steps, eg. define some predefined macros which can influence libraries to detect them
21:49:37 <b_jonas> in particular, both the preprocessor and compiler needs to know whether you're compiling C or C++, the language version of C or C++, the target CPU and even instruction set extensions, target operating system, whether threading is enabled, etc
21:49:54 <zzo38> I know I can do that, but some things might be difficult to implement in this way, such as to modify the included files that are read by the preprocessor
21:52:15 <zzo38> I had considered using -wrapper and -no-integrated-cpp to make all of the switches correct when wanting to add extra steps, although that only handles that part of it.
21:52:37 <b_jonas> there's at least an option to make the preprocessor show which files it's included, with full path, that can be helpful
21:54:28 <zzo38> The preprocessor will complain about unrecognized directives though, so that will need to be handled before the preprocessor reads the files, so then it might be necessary to handle #include separately
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22:52:37 <int-e> Fi-nally. I completed A Monster's Expedition (using the built-in hints for the last two snowmen)
22:54:06 <int-e> (I like those hints; they point to islands that you should focus on to make progress, which given the semi-open world nature of the game helps quite a bit.)
23:27:36 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139681&oldid=137730 * Aadenboy * (+18)