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00:13:59 <esolangs> [[User:BestCoder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139682&oldid=138314 * BestCoder * (-1)
00:21:15 <esolangs> [[Corder]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139683 * BestCoder * (+218) Created page with "[[Recorder]] but you insert stuff == Inserting == x = hi[]hello x : [] no #x is now hinohello y = inseeeeeert y : e n # y is now insnnnnnnrt == Also here is unfunctioning == return y x: flip x y flip 2 3 # 3 2"
00:21:41 <esolangs> [[User:BestCoder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139684&oldid=139682 * BestCoder * (+16)
00:28:41 <esolangs> [[Reverser]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139685 * BestCoder * (+468) Created page with "my own reversible language == commands == out: output tuo: remove this from the output inp: input pni: undetermined so noop loop N c E: loop the following E c N pool: still loop stop: stop pots: start start: start trats: stop inc: increment cni: decrement
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01:28:02 <esolangs> [[Huhgolf]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139686 * BestCoder * (+188) Created page with "this is actually a bunch of languages == Programs == hello world: golfprint("hello world") add two numbers: golfa=input();b=input();print(a+b) huhgolf interpreter: golfexec(input()[4:])"
01:28:30 <esolangs> [[User:BestCoder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139687&oldid=139684 * BestCoder * (+17)
01:29:03 <esolangs> [[User:BestCoder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139688&oldid=139687 * BestCoder * (+18)
01:33:21 <esolangs> [[Cyclic automaton]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139689 * BestCoder * (+36) Created page with "like linear bounded but it is circle"
01:54:19 <esolangs> [[2 poets, 1 poem]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139690 * Tommyaweosme * (+381) Created page with "2 poets, 1 poem is a [[poetic (family)|poetic]] [[2 bits, 1 Byte|2 bits, 1 byte]]. == commands == 1-2 letters - don 00 3 letters - act 01 4 letters - jmp 10 5 letters - end 11 6 letters - pri (print) 20 7 letters - inc (increment) 21 8 letters - dec (
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04:10:14 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139691&oldid=139541 * Rosenthal * (+15) /* Summing 1~n */ Rename variables to match article convention and test
04:31:46 <esolangs> [[Icebox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139692 * DifferentDance8 * (+3525) My first esolang!
04:32:54 <esolangs> [[Icebox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139693&oldid=139692 * DifferentDance8 * (-28) According to esolang standards, this isn't a joke language
04:35:07 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139694&oldid=139576 * DifferentDance8 * (+54) add IceBox
04:38:49 <ais523> <fizzie> (Because I've definitely been unexpectedly logged out from the wiki as well.) ← I have a remember-me login cookie set, and have never been unexpectedly logged out, but I often get a "We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data" message, and need to resubmit the edit
04:39:09 <ais523> my guess is that it's the same problem, but different symptoms due to the different remember me setting
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04:53:45 <esolangs> [[C-4]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139695 * DifferentDance8 * (+1378) Created page with "'''C-4''' is a revolutionary programming language designed to bring self-destruction to a whole new level. Unlike traditional languages that merely execute code, C-4 goes a step further by ensuring that both itself and any program you attempt to run are promptly ann
04:54:47 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139696&oldid=139631 * DifferentDance8 * (+148)
04:57:06 <esolangs> [[User:DifferentDance8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139697&oldid=139513 * DifferentDance8 * (+108)
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05:31:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:Tweak]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139698 * Yayimhere * (+122) Created page with "how are commands changed??? [:~~~~:]"
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06:28:51 <esolangs> [[Icebox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139699&oldid=139693 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Example Programs */
06:29:22 <esolangs> [[C-4]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139700&oldid=139695 * Ractangle * (+22) /* Author's Note */
06:31:06 <esolangs> [[Category:Deadfish derivatives]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139701&oldid=116864 * Ractangle * (+22)
06:32:06 <esolangs> [[Category:Deadfish derivatives]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139702&oldid=139701 * Ractangle * (+41)
06:34:05 <esolangs> [[Category:Deadfish derivatives]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139703&oldid=139702 * Ractangle * (+85)
06:39:10 <esolangs> [[E++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139704&oldid=82115 * Ractangle * (+23)
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06:44:16 <esolangs> [[Enterprise]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139705&oldid=79655 * Ractangle * (+24) /* References */
06:52:53 <esolangs> [[FIFOrth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139706&oldid=85666 * Ractangle * (+0) /* What is FIFOrth */
06:53:42 <esolangs> [[FIFTH]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139707&oldid=31178 * Ractangle * (+24)
07:39:24 <esolangs> [[Ftack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139708&oldid=34507 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Computational class */
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07:47:07 <esolangs> [[Category theory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139709&oldid=104265 * Simple9371 * (+35) Generalize "sets" to "objects"
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08:08:08 <esolangs> [[Bubblegum]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139710&oldid=139640 * PkmnQ * (+12)
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08:29:33 <esolangs> [[Fuck-brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139711&oldid=122183 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Python */
08:35:59 <esolangs> [[FunctionsFTW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139712&oldid=114083 * Ractangle * (-5) /* Implementation */
08:47:25 <esolangs> [[@!+-()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139713&oldid=138282 * PkmnQ * (+54)
08:47:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * PkmnQ * moved [[@!+-() Turing-completness Proof]] to [[@!+-() Turing-completeness Proof]]: Misspelled title
08:49:16 <esolangs> [[A programming language is a system of notation for writing computer programs.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139716&oldid=131460 * PkmnQ * (+226)
08:49:28 <esolangs> [[A programming language is a system of notation for writing computer programs.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139717&oldid=139716 * PkmnQ * (+4) /* See also */
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09:53:00 <esolangs> [[He110!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139718&oldid=58736 * Ractangle * (+24) /* External resources */
09:56:40 <esolangs> [[Hello++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139719&oldid=117844 * Ractangle * (+24) /* See Also */
09:59:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:2KWLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139720&oldid=139641 * None1 * (+618) /* Comparison operators */
10:00:54 <esolangs> [[Talk:2KWLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139721&oldid=139720 * None1 * (+138) /* Comparison operators */
10:02:30 <esolangs> [[Talk:Gift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139722&oldid=139591 * None1 * (-2)
10:03:12 <esolangs> [[Hi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139723&oldid=131692 * Ractangle * (+46)
10:03:45 <esolangs> [[Hi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139724&oldid=139723 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Implementations */
10:04:27 <esolangs> [[Gift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139725&oldid=139484 * None1 * (+47) /* Examples */
10:12:30 <esolangs> [[Gift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139726&oldid=139725 * None1 * (+419) /* Examples */
10:12:47 <esolangs> [[Gift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139727&oldid=139726 * None1 * (+1)
10:12:54 <esolangs> [[8ial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139728&oldid=139572 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Syntax */
10:13:26 <esolangs> [[8ial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139729&oldid=139728 * Ractangle * (+4) /* Truth-machine */
10:13:47 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139730&oldid=139573 * Ractangle * (+5) /* 8ial */
10:23:30 <esolangs> [[HQ9+2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139731&oldid=91569 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Interpreters */
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10:30:23 <esolangs> [[Huby]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139732&oldid=90263 * Ractangle * (+24) /* External resources */
10:36:07 <esolangs> [[I hate your bf-derivative really I do]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139733&oldid=69678 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Hello, World! */
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10:42:46 <wib_jonas> in VBS, &HF000 is a 16-bit integer literal with negative value, so if x is a 32-bit integer then (&HF000 And x) won't just extract four bits of x, it will extract the top 20 bits, because &HF000 widens to &HFFFFF000&. I have to write (&HF000& And x) instead to extract just four bits. I knew this in theory but it's such an easy mistake to make, and
10:42:47 <wib_jonas> I wasted an hour trying to debug it yesterday, gave up, then spent an hour today to finally find the bug.
10:43:46 <wib_jonas> so just in case you want to know why in C, 0x7FFFFFFF has type int but 0x80000000 has type unsigned int, now you know, it's to avoid this exact stupid bug
10:48:30 <wib_jonas> mind you, you can still make this mistake in C: (0xF<<24 & x) is fine but (0xF<<28 & x) will extract the top 36 bits because 0xF<<28 is a signed int with negative value
10:50:56 <esolangs> [[Interdemento]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139734&oldid=59448 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Basics */
10:51:31 <esolangs> [[Interfrac]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139735&oldid=96976 * Ractangle * (+23) /* See also */
10:55:21 <esolangs> [[IRP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139736&oldid=106518 * Ractangle * (+24) /* See also */
10:55:53 <esolangs> [[IsThatAMotherFrickingSpecificAnimeReferenceLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139737&oldid=79200 * Ractangle * (+24) /* External resources */
10:57:42 <esolangs> [[Javascular]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139738&oldid=82415 * Ractangle * (+24) /* 5 is greater than 2 */
10:59:17 <esolangs> [[Keys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139739&oldid=75849 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Implementations */
10:59:45 <esolangs> [[User:King Ethan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139740&oldid=91220 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Interpreter */
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11:38:24 <esolangs> [[Odasjoi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139741&oldid=136309 * None1 * (+3) Use IPA
11:39:53 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139742&oldid=137780 * None1 * (+2) /* Etymology */ According to the formal pronounciation, using syllables instead of IPA, the e should pronounce a long vowel /i/
11:49:50 <esolangs> [[L.H.O.O.Q.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139743&oldid=59344 * Ractangle * (+22) /* External resources */
11:50:02 <esolangs> [[L.H.O.O.Q.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139744&oldid=139743 * Ractangle * (+2) /* External resources */
11:51:00 <esolangs> [[LAIDBACK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139745&oldid=31180 * Ractangle * (+24)
11:53:19 <fizzie> `(0xF<<28 & x)` also triggers UBSan warning, since it's technically undefined.
11:53:21 <HackEso> (0xF<<28? No such file or directory
11:53:25 <fizzie> ("runtime error: left shift of 15 by 28 places cannot be represented in type 'int'")
11:53:33 <fizzie> I forgot about ` being a prefix. :/
11:55:13 <fizzie> Here's a funny semi-obscure C89-to-C99 difference:
11:55:17 <fizzie> 22:00 <fizzie> ,cc -w -m32 -std=c89 printf("%d", 2147483648 > -1 ? 1 : 1000000);
11:55:19 <fizzie> 22:00 <candide> fizzie: 1000000
11:55:21 <fizzie> 22:00 <fizzie> ,cc -w -m32 -std=c99 printf("%d", 2147483648 > -1 ? 1 : 1000000);
11:55:23 <fizzie> 22:00 <candide> fizzie: 1
11:56:55 <fizzie> In C89, an unsuffixed decimal constant had the first type that can represent the value out of `int`, `long`, `unsigned long`; in C99 that was changed to `int`, `long`, `long long`, dropping the unsigned option.
11:58:21 <esolangs> [[Len(language,encoding)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139746&oldid=40884 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Example Hello World program */
11:59:02 <fizzie> It's also maybe a little bit of a gotcha that changing a constant from decimal to octal/hexadecimal can change its type.
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12:08:26 <esolangs> [[Len(language,encoding)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139747&oldid=139746 * None1 * (+51) /* Example Hello World program */
12:08:44 <esolangs> [[OCPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139748&oldid=122074 * None1 * (+55) /* See also */
12:12:36 <esolangs> [[Len(language,encoding)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139749&oldid=139747 * None1 * (+288)
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12:50:49 <esolangs> [[GolfText]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139750 * None1 * (+4339) Created page with "{{lang|a=User:None1|f=an esolang designed to output repetitive text using shorter code.}} ==Syntax== It is just [[text]], but LZMA compressed! ==Examples== ===[[99 bottles of beer]]=== <pre class="rectwrap"> FD 37 7A 58 5A 00 00 04 E6 D6 B4 46 02 00 21 01 16 00 00 00 74
12:52:46 <esolangs> [[Licorne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139751&oldid=45096 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Hello world */
12:56:36 <esolangs> [[LOLScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139752&oldid=36360 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Examples */
12:58:55 <esolangs> [[Magritte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139753&oldid=93975 * Ractangle * (+24) /* External resources */
13:05:23 <esolangs> [[Error quine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139754 * None1 * (+1636) Created page with "An '''error quine''' is a type of [[quine]] where the source code is printed as an error. ==How to write an error quine== Writing an error quine is much easier than writing a quine, you follow these steps: # Smash random keys on your keyboard. # Feed the error to the
13:05:47 <esolangs> [[Quine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139755&oldid=112375 * None1 * (+18) /* See also */
13:06:08 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139756&oldid=139619 * None1 * (+18) /* My Articles */
13:07:41 <esolangs> [[Error quine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139757&oldid=139754 * None1 * (+172)
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13:48:56 <esolangs> [[Turtle just want to dig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139758&oldid=134259 * Yayimhere * (+210)
13:58:00 <esolangs> [[GolfText]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139759&oldid=139750 * None1 * (+1) /* NOP */ percent not bytes
13:59:51 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139760&oldid=139696 * None1 * (+60) /* General languages */
14:00:37 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139761&oldid=139756 * None1 * (+67) /* My Esolangs */
14:02:24 <esolangs> [[Never Gonna Give You Up]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139762&oldid=138113 * None1 * (+50)
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14:10:54 <esolangs> [[Titanium]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139763 * Alx * (+22174) Created page with "<h1>Instruction Set Architecture</h1> This page is unfinished!!! W32 Titanium (formerly serialized as <code>ua-w32-titanium#nf</code>) is a 32-bit architecture written by [[User:Alx]] with native support for data width up to 128 bits, initially written as an extension to
14:10:57 <esolangs> [[GolfText]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139764&oldid=139759 * None1 * (+1531)
14:11:30 <esolangs> [[Titanium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139765&oldid=139763 * Alx * (+37502)
14:11:52 <esolangs> [[Never gonna give you up]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139766 * None1 * (+37) Redirected page to [[Never Gonna Give You Up]]
14:12:02 <esolangs> [[Titanium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139767&oldid=139765 * Alx * (+27566)
14:12:34 <esolangs> [[Titanium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139768&oldid=139767 * Alx * (+37279)
14:12:56 <esolangs> [[Titanium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139769&oldid=139768 * Alx * (+41628)
14:16:25 <esolangs> [[Blues++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139770&oldid=138521 * Faustify * (+481) Added system calls
14:33:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Chruffins * New user account
14:35:53 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139771&oldid=139636 * Chruffins * (+105) introducing chruffins
14:36:15 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139772&oldid=139771 * Chruffins * (+69)
14:38:27 <esolangs> [[9 bytes :I]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139773&oldid=127747 * Chruffins * (+71)
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14:41:57 <esolangs> [[None]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139774&oldid=119344 * Ractangle * (+6)
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14:47:49 <esolangs> [[NullScript 1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139775&oldid=99089 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Interpreter */
14:48:20 <esolangs> [[NullScript 2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139776&oldid=99087 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Interpreter */
14:49:19 <esolangs> [[Obj]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139777&oldid=91643 * Ractangle * (+24)
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15:32:39 <wWwwW> i made dis:https://esolangs.org/wiki/Turtle_just_want_to_dig
15:32:49 <wWwwW> what is a possible computation class
15:34:29 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139778&oldid=139472 * Yayimhere * (+30) /* esolangs */
15:36:55 <int-e> . o O ( "if the below space is a space" )
15:37:09 <int-e> this doesn't seem to compute anything
15:37:18 <esolangs> [[OOo CODE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139779&oldid=114802 * Ractangle * (+24) /* External resources */
15:37:46 <esolangs> [[Or++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139780&oldid=134926 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Implementations */
15:38:11 <wWwwW> why should it do computation?
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15:42:16 <esolangs> [[Pikalang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139781&oldid=44016 * Ractangle * (+24) /* External resources */
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15:43:48 <esolangs> [[POGAACK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139782&oldid=63952 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Implementation */
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17:46:13 <esolangs> [[QIRAML]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139783&oldid=69366 * Ractangle * (+24) /* External links */
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17:47:21 <esolangs> [[Quiler]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139784&oldid=35434 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Example */
17:50:54 <esolangs> [[Recursive]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139785&oldid=136558 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Crash the interpreter (for some interpreters) */
17:51:46 <esolangs> [[RENE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139786&oldid=73747 * Ractangle * (+22)
17:58:11 <esolangs> [[SARTRE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139787&oldid=58684 * Ractangle * (+24) /* External resources */
18:00:05 <JAA> How would you, say, add 1 and 2 in that language?
18:00:32 <wWwwW> idk. but i could ask the same thing about idk conways game of life
18:00:40 <esolangs> [[Segmentation fault]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139788&oldid=116500 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Python */
18:02:41 <wWwwW> even a infinite loop is computation
18:02:50 <wWwwW> but how much computation can it do?
18:04:12 <esolangs> [[SIMPLE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139789&oldid=83853 * Ractangle * (+24) /* References */
18:04:27 <JAA> People much more clever than me have figured out how to do addition and various other fun stuff in Game of Life.
18:04:45 <wWwwW> what im trying to say is
18:05:08 <wWwwW> but also nobody can say: "oh yea how could THIS do computation????"
18:05:31 <esolangs> [[SLOBOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139790&oldid=63941 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Languages inspired by this description */
18:06:11 <JAA> Maybe it's possible, yeah. That's why I'm asking. :-)
18:06:40 <wWwwW> a person i asked said it prop was
18:06:46 <JAA> Seems to me that you'd need to figure out how to compute things in it before being able to say anything about the computational class.
18:07:20 <wWwwW> i have made a looping counter already
18:07:56 <esolangs> [[Stoplight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139791&oldid=83917 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Interpreter */
18:08:34 <wWwwW> coutning number of spaces
18:08:40 <wWwwW> this is the counter value
18:09:23 <wWwwW> and increments every iteration
18:09:27 <esolangs> [[Tautology]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139792&oldid=35549 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Implementation */
18:09:56 <esolangs> [[Tech Support Scam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139793&oldid=105901 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Truth machine */
18:10:43 <JAA> Trying to understand the rules. So the turtle moves to the right. Then there's a bug under it, and it has spaces on both sides. So shouldn't the turtle eat the bug and the program terminate?
18:10:56 <JAA> > if there are space to the both left and right AND the below space is a space it will move down into it
18:10:57 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
18:11:22 <wWwwW> the way the bug moves
18:11:48 <wWwwW> the bug is defenitly needed
18:11:55 <JAA> So what does the situation look like after one move?
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18:14:27 <esolangs> [[The Language That Explodes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139794&oldid=87344 * Ractangle * (+24)
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18:16:37 <esolangs> [[Trans-dimensional]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139795&oldid=108654 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Interpreter */
18:17:20 <esolangs> [[TrumpScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139796&oldid=102553 * Ractangle * (+24) /* External resources */
18:20:03 <esolangs> [[Unary Except Every Zero Is Replaced with the Title of This Programming Language or, Alternately, Is Replaced with the Smallest Counter-Example to the Goldbach Conjecture. Compilers and Interpreters Only Have to Implement the Former Option]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139797&oldid=76710 * Ractangle * (+24) /* See Also */
18:21:44 <esolangs> [[Undefined]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139798&oldid=46607 * Ractangle * (+23)
18:22:05 <esolangs> [[Undefined behavior (language)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139799&oldid=83594 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Implementations */
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18:24:20 <esolangs> [[UnreadabIe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139800&oldid=62125 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Commands */
18:24:59 <esolangs> [[Unusable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139801&oldid=30748 * Ractangle * (+23)
18:27:49 <esolangs> [[VerboseFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139802&oldid=94831 * Ractangle * (+24) /* External resources */
18:28:42 <esolangs> [[WHY]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139803&oldid=58340 * Ractangle * (+23) /* WHYJIT */
18:32:43 <esolangs> [[Deadfish~]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139804&oldid=122294 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Sample Program */
18:34:01 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139805&oldid=139678 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Syntax */
18:37:09 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139806&oldid=139805 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Syntax */
18:52:06 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139807&oldid=139806 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Truth-machine */
18:53:18 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139808&oldid=139807 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Syntax */
18:54:27 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139809&oldid=139808 * Ractangle * (+46) /* Syntax */
18:54:40 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139810&oldid=139809 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Syntax */
18:55:40 <esolangs> [[Dish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139811&oldid=139810 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Examples */
18:56:51 <esolangs> [[CLFCE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139812&oldid=139383 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Commands */
18:57:05 <esolangs> [[CLFCE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139813&oldid=139812 * Ractangle * (+3) /* Commands */
19:00:14 <esolangs> [[U (PrySigneToFry)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139814&oldid=139084 * Ractangle * (-230) You already said that at the beginning
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19:14:21 <esolangs> [[Y/Y]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139815 * Ractangle * (+447) Created page with "'''Y/Y''' is an esolang created by [[User:Yayimhere]] (possibly) the only thing is known about this esolang is that it has an interpreter generated by AI. ==Syntax== :''The information is not fully done yet. You can contribute on adding more syntax info here'' {{cd|&}} pri
19:14:56 <esolangs> [[Y/Y]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139816&oldid=139815 * Ractangle * (+47)
19:16:08 <esolangs> [[Y/Y]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139817&oldid=139816 * Ractangle * (+76)
19:16:38 <esolangs> [[Y/Y]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139818&oldid=139817 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Interpreter */
19:17:05 <esolangs> [[Y/Y]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139819&oldid=139818 * Ractangle * (+35)
19:17:55 <esolangs> [[Y/Y]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139820&oldid=139819 * Ractangle * (+1)
19:21:49 <esolangs> [[Y/Y]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139821&oldid=139820 * Ractangle * (+83) /* Syntax */
19:23:12 <esolangs> [[Y/Y]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139822&oldid=139821 * Ractangle * (+49) /* Syntax */
19:23:29 <esolangs> [[Y/Y]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139823&oldid=139822 * Ractangle * (+8) /* Syntax */
19:25:20 <esolangs> [[Y/Y]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139824&oldid=139823 * Ractangle * (+41) /* Cat program */
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20:23:06 <esolangs> [[Talk:2KWLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139825&oldid=139721 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1103) Replies
20:26:26 <esolangs> [[2KWLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139826&oldid=138969 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+45) Operators, computational class
20:28:24 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * PythonshellDebugwindow * moved [[Icebox]] to [[IceBox]]: Fix capitalisation
20:30:00 <esolangs> [[IceBox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139829&oldid=139827 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+58) Distinguish confusion, add category
20:30:26 <esolangs> [[Ice box]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139830&oldid=123866 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+33) Distinguish confusion
20:34:42 <esolangs> [[Y/Y]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139831&oldid=139824 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+50) Stub, categories
20:36:25 <esolangs> [[Titanium]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139832&oldid=139769 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+72) Categories
20:39:07 <esolangs> [[2 poets, 1 poem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139833&oldid=139690 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+183) Categories
20:39:37 <esolangs> [[Cyclic automaton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139834&oldid=139689 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+38) Stub, link
20:41:14 <esolangs> [[Cyclic automaton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139835&oldid=139834 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+35) Category
20:42:47 <esolangs> [[Reverser]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139836&oldid=139685 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+107) Categories
20:44:59 <esolangs> [[I hate your bf-derivative really I do]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139837&oldid=139733 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+70) Categories
21:02:56 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Ractangle * uploaded "[[File:Something that managed to create this language.jpg]]"
21:19:59 <esolangs> [[Geography table]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139839 * Ractangle * (+419) Created page with "'''Geography table''' is an esolang based on this: <br>[[File:Something that managed to create this language.jpg|150px]] <br>created by [[User:Ractangle]] ==Syntax== Every program must start with a start form (or a start command). Bellow the start form, we have
21:23:09 <esolangs> [[Geography table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139840&oldid=139839 * Ractangle * (+129) /* Syntax */
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21:38:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Ractangle * uploaded "[[File:GTHWP.png]]"
21:38:52 <esolangs> [[Geography table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139842&oldid=139840 * Ractangle * (+47) /* Syntax */
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21:53:42 <zzo38> In DOS, Windows, and UNIX, a program's arguments are always a sequence of strings (C strings in the case of UNIX), and there are environment variables, etc. I had thought to make a better way that one of the forks of a program file indicates what type of initial message it expects. (At the low-level it is only a sequence of bytes and/or capabilities, but meanings are caused by higher level codes.)
21:54:46 <zzo38> The types might be: null, tagged union, structure, integer, floating point, C string, Pascal string, typed arrays, capabilities, typed capabilities. etc. (There are also further variants, e.g. signed vs unsigned integers, and different sizes of integers (including variable size).)
21:57:48 <zzo38> Do you have other comments about this, including other details about the types?
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22:31:29 <ais523> zzo38: I think taking capabilities as input is the most important part – that makes it possible for programs to state exactly what OS/privileged resources they're going to access
22:32:33 <ais523> in fact, I think that it would be correct for the shell to translate command-line arguments to capabilities using a standard convention, e.g. if you write a filename you get a capability to access that file, which is normally read-only, but using the -o option makes it write-only instead
22:32:33 <zzo38> Yes, that is one of the most important parts of my operating system design. (All programs must receive at least one capability as input otherwise it cannot do any I/O.)
22:33:12 <ais523> there needs to be some way for users to specify numerical and string options, etc., but I don't see an advantage from having the shell/OS translate them to different sorts of string or integer
22:33:22 <ais523> you can just pick a standard format and have the program translate, if it needs to
22:33:42 <ais523> maybe using just capabilities and strings is best
22:33:42 <zzo38> The use of the type of initial message should make it unnecessary to work that way; instead the command shell works much like other programming languages that have data types.
22:34:08 <ais523> you might want to look at Microsoft's PowerShell – IIRC it's a shell with typed command-line arguments (although it doesn't use capabilities)
22:35:28 <zzo38> Yes, I have seen it.
22:35:47 <ais523> a while ago I worked out a capability system in which there were four different relationships a program could have with a class of capability
22:36:37 <b_jonas> ais523: we can already pass open file descriptors to a process we exec, thus giving it the capability to read, or read and write, or append to the file. I've used that a few times, passing the number of the file descriptor in a command-line option to tell the program how to use which descriptor. Bash even has some nice syntax support for this, more of it in recent versions.
22:36:38 <ais523> a) it could grant itself the capability, even without being given the capability from outside; b) it inherited the capability from the program that ran it; c) it didn't have the capability by default, but could gain it by interacting with the user or a higher-privilege program; d) it couldn't gain the capability by any means
22:37:20 <ais523> although, some programs get confused if you call them with a set of open FDs other than exactly 0, 1, 2
22:37:44 <ais523> open FDs are an obvious way to implement capability passing, when the capabilities give access to a file or directory
22:38:46 <b_jonas> yeah, sometimes they erroneously pass them on to programs that they spawn, but this happen less if the program is explicitly designed to take descriptors this way than if you just try to pass --some-option=/dev/fd/$foo {foo}<$filename to a program that normally expects a filename
22:39:22 <ais523> and I think on Linux it would be possible to set up a syscall filter so that programs couldn't access files except by using existing FDs, and couldn't go upwards from existing directory FDs (basically you deny file-opening APIs other than openat2 and force it to use arguments that prevent going upwards)
22:40:03 <ais523> there's also the ergonomic issue of people normally writing "more filename" rather than "more < filename"
22:40:04 <zzo38> In my design, the only way for a program to receive a capability is to receive it from a message, which is either the initial message or a message received through another capability. Furthermore, capabilities are not distinguished from proxy capabilities; many features will use proxy capabilities and you can pass a different one than the one expected and the program will try to use it.
22:40:16 <ais523> and the issue of commands that take variable numbers of input files
22:40:19 <zzo38> (The low-level system knows nothing about types)
22:40:33 <ais523> I do agree that a proxy capability system is necessary
22:41:25 <b_jonas> ais523: I think you can do that by file system namespaces, so that the program sees nothing mounted other than what you really want to pass. similarly you can use network namespaces so it can't access network except possibly a specific local or tunnel network that you use to communicate with it, or through sockets that you pass into it
22:41:25 <ais523> are you aware of the Linux command/syscall unshare(1)/unshare(2)?
22:41:57 <ais523> b_jonas: in effect that is setting up a container – it would work but might be overly complicated? or might not be
22:42:29 <ais523> I think, e.g., programs should be able to put up a Save As dialog box and save to any location that the user specifies, if the user has access to write there
22:43:14 <ais523> and they should get the capability to do that "from the user", implemented via a program that asks the user where to save and manufactures capabilities to write to that location
22:43:23 <ais523> (sort of like sudo on a much lower-permissioned level)
22:43:24 <b_jonas> ais523: unshare(2) yes, that's one of the underlying syscalls for setting up namespaces; no for unshare(1)
22:44:09 <ais523> it's basically just a wrapper around unshare(2) but it makes screwing around with namespaces very easy
22:44:34 <ais523> I think of it like a proxy capability system, in that it can give the program capabilities within the container that the user running it doesn't have outside the container
22:44:52 <zzo38> My design does not have directory structures and file names, so there is no such thing a a "Save As" dialog box; however, for a more usual system you can implement Save As in the way that you describe it makes sense.
22:44:52 <b_jonas> though I think it's rare, normally you want clone(2) to set up namespaces instead. I wonder if there's a higher level wrapper that's like posix_spawn but supports that and more.
22:45:35 <b_jonas> I don't even really understand why unshare(2) exists really, but there's probably some niche use for it.
22:46:10 <ais523> I think it's so that a program can sandbox itslef
22:46:15 <ais523> as opposed to sandboxing a child process
22:49:18 <zzo38> I think that would be why unshare exists, although I think that it is going to be more complicated and messy than a purely capability-based system, that does not have name spaces and the other stuff like that.
22:51:07 <b_jonas> by the way as for clone, do you found it funny how pre-pthreads linuxthreads caused Linux to obsolete the orignal exit system call with a new call group_exit which _exit now calls, because the exit syscall has to be binary compatible with programs using old linuxthreads. Like, I understand why some system calls like lstat or statfs or getdents have like four binary incompatible generations of underlying
22:51:14 <b_jonas> syscalls implementing them, but exit (literally system call 1, as old as Unix) is the last syscall to which you'd expect this would happen.
22:51:48 <zzo38> I did not know that, since I had not used pre-pthreads linuxthreads
22:53:19 <b_jonas> the only saving grace is that those old syscalls can be removed in newly created architectures whose syscall ABI is entirely incompatible with existing architectures, but that has a very long half-life for old syscalls on popular architectures
22:54:29 <zzo38> About the typed initial messaged I had mentioned above, a problem with the shell converting file names like that is that it allows inadvertently giving capabilities that are not intended. The command shell being a programming language with types, will do it better.
22:54:30 <b_jonas> also technically sometimes you can remove some old syscalls with kernel compile options, which I know because I once did that accidentally with a kernel that I compiled and it caused everything to break
22:55:32 <zzo38> In some cases it might automatically convert types, e.g. the command shell programming language (also called "Command, Automation, and Query Language") might not have C strings, so it will convert a Pascal string to a C string if that is what the program uses and will result in an error message (without executing the program) if it contains a null byte.
22:55:47 <b_jonas> and when that happens, programs usually break without a good error message
22:56:44 <b_jonas> zzo38: yeah, that already happens. bash uses strings that can contain nul bytes, but has to convert the if you use one as a command-line argument to an external program or as an environment variable
22:57:59 <b_jonas> also when using a string as a filename. and it's not just bash, this happens with some other high-level languages too. it can lead to funny security vulnerabilities if you do it wrong.
22:59:09 <zzo38> I think Lisp has a separate filename type.
23:00:32 <zzo38> However, some programming languages have other problems with using strings as filenames, depending on how they differ from the filenames of the system; there are differences between operating systems and between programming languages. For example, some might require them to be Unicode strings, and then there is difference of case-sensitivity, etc.
23:00:41 <zzo38> So, my own system will not have file names.
23:04:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:2KWLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139843&oldid=139825 * None1 * (+272) /* Comparison operators */
23:04:41 <b_jonas> ok, I guess unshare makes sense at least partly, since most other syscalls in unix work that way, modifying the state of the current process instead of a newly spawned one. maybe the stuff like file system namespace and network namespace should be in unshared, while clone keeps only the stuff that fork normally unshares, most importantly CLONE_VM
23:06:07 <b_jonas> zzo38: sure, you can have a filename type, but at some point you still have to be able to convert a string to a filename
23:06:16 <zzo38> In order for emulation, network transparency, etc, also I would think that a common convention for endianness, etc will be defined for the data types in messages and files as well, so that they will be the same on alll computers. (A program may then internally convert the data to its own endianness, alignment, etc, if it wishes to perform its own computations using it (rather than merely pass it to someone else).)
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23:07:13 <b_jonas> and yes, unix uses byte strings as filenames, windows uses UCS-16 strings as filenames, unix updates file modification time at every write, windows doesn't, these are fundamental differences that we can't really fix and if you want portable programs you effectively have to support both cases explicitly.
23:10:35 <zzo38> Yes, you might sometimes need to convert a string to a file name. However, for many systems you could just accept text in files, command-line arguments, etc and just use those when you need anything beyond the program's own ASCII file names, and for the program's own ASCII file names to use a consistent case and never use file names with the other case, then it might work, but it is messy.
23:12:48 <zzo38> What my idea is to just not have file names at all. When you pass a file to a uxn program, it will be converted to a sequence of letters/numbers and then the uxn emulator will internally associate that name with that file temporarily. This also applies when a link to another file is read from a file, perhaps.
23:14:17 <zzo38> This also means that the C standard library will not have a fopen function, although fopencookie, fmemopen, etc are still available. There will be other functions to make a FILE object to access a capability that you have access to, though.
23:23:31 <zzo38> Are there data types that I had missed in the list that I had written above?
23:25:14 <zzo38> (It would still be possible to give a message that does not conform to the expected format, although you would have to use the command to deliberately send a raw message, then; normally it would use the specified formats)
23:26:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:SMATINY]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139844&oldid=8447 * Tommyaweosme * (+682) /* Infinite loops */
23:26:55 <esolangs> [[Talk:SMATINY]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139845&oldid=139844 * Tommyaweosme * (+2) the missing dots...
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23:45:19 <ais523> zzo38: I think most programs don't need to know the filename of the user files they operate on – however, programs often also have data files of their own, and need some way to identify them, so it makes sense to have a filename for those
23:46:26 <ais523> when a program does need to know the name of the file it's operating on, it's normally to show it to the user (and IMO programs should have a type specifically for "text that is shown to the user" so that it can contain formatting, be translated into other languages, etc.)
23:47:11 <ais523> but, sometimes a program wants to operate on an entire directory or directory tree, and filenames are useful there too
23:47:29 <zzo38> I had thought of such things too, and have thought of some other ways of doing some of these things.
23:50:20 <zzo38> Files can contain links to other files, so a program can contain links to its data files, or a configuration file might have. For operating on many files, a sequence of links is possible, too. For "text that is shown to the user", I had considered that too, because I had considered i18n. And, the Common Data Format (used for most files and for the command shell) also allows for rich text.
23:52:08 <zzo38> I think that the existing locale handling in many systems isn't that good, e.g. that paper size doesn't belong in the locale but rather in the printer driver configuration.
23:53:47 <zzo38> Money formats belong with the data file being displayed, and not with the locale either.
23:54:48 <ais523> hmm – I think money formats are a mix of the data and the user's locale
23:54:52 <zzo38> The language will belong with the locale, and so will date/time formats, although date/time formats should not need identifiers (using identifiers only limits them), and will not necessarily be a Gregorian calendar nor 24-hours (so "space age time keeping" would also be possible)
23:55:10 <zzo38> OK, you are probably right about money formats.
23:55:27 <ais523> an amount of money that's displayed as $5.20 in the USA should be displayed as US$5.20 in Canada (where $ normally mans something different) and 5,20 USD in France
23:56:05 <ais523> or maybe 5.20 USD in Canada, too
23:56:16 <ais523> it is hard to be unambiguous, often
23:56:57 <ais523> I agree with you that locale handling typically isn't very good, though
23:57:09 <zzo38> Yes, things like that is what I thought you meant
23:57:22 <ais523> with the paper size examples, WYSIWYG editors often have trouble because the paper size where the file is edited and where the file is printed are different
23:57:46 <ais523> and users aren't typically asked to specify the paper size when creating a document, even though this is important for WYSIWYG to work
23:58:04 <ais523> (I prefer WYSIWYM editors, usually, which have enough information to adapt the document to a different paper size)
23:59:03 <zzo38> A file that is formatted for a specific paper size would store that data of course, and the user would always be able to set this if it is necessary to do in the file, regardless of the printer driver configuration. (Not all files will be formatted for specific paper sizes.)