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00:26:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:Smalltalk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140775&oldid=140772 * Tommyaweosme * (+230)
00:29:06 <esolangs> [[Memorial language list]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140776 * Tommyaweosme * (+219) Created page with "This is a fourth list that lists memorial languages, i.e. ones that are memorial of 9/11, world war II, any major online war event, etc. == Non-Alphanumeric == [[bbtos|BRING BACK THE OLD SANDBOX]] == 0-9 == == A-Z =="
00:35:21 <esolangs> [[ bits, 0 Bytes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140777&oldid=136843 * Tommyaweosme * (+100) /* Command */
00:35:40 <esolangs> [[ bits, 0 Bytes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140778&oldid=140777 * Tommyaweosme * (+3) /* Commands */
00:38:40 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140779 * DifferentDance8 * (+745) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=[[File:Snakel_logo.png|20px|alt=Snakel]]}} {{stub}} :''This is an interpretation made by [[User:DifferentDance8]] and thus may or may not be accurate to the actual language'' [[File:Snakel_logo.png|20px|alt=Snakel]] is an esolang that would've
00:39:31 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140780&oldid=140779 * DifferentDance8 * (+93)
00:41:18 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140781&oldid=140441 * DifferentDance8 * (+231) /* I was born 3 years before you! */ new section
00:59:13 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/BRING BACK THE OLD SANDBOX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140782&oldid=130046 * Tommyaweosme * (+1117) biggest update in years
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00:59:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140783&oldid=140781 * Tommyaweosme * (+217) /* I was born 3 years before you! */
00:59:59 <int-e> korvo: well this is fun. >+++++++[-[-[->>[+>]+<[<]<]+>+[>]]>+<<] takes over 3 ↑ 8135830269 steps.
01:00:00 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140784&oldid=139932 * Tommyaweosme * (+13)
01:01:48 <korvo> int-e: Oh wow. Congrats. This is exciting stuff indeed. Those [>] and [<] sleds are suggestive.
01:04:19 <int-e> (I had an inspiration for implementing a bastardized Ackermann function)
01:05:30 <int-e> heck it even works with byte-sized cells
01:05:43 <int-e> because the one number that grows really big is stored in unary
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01:14:18 <int-e> oh the +< can be replaced by just +
01:44:07 <esolangs> [[User:Int-e/BFBB]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140785 * Int-e * (+1693) analysis of a busy Brainfuck program
01:44:19 <int-e> korvo: for you: https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Int-e/BFBB
01:47:50 <korvo> int-e: I'm cackling with delight. Well done.
01:49:24 <esolangs> [[User:Int-e/BFBB]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140786&oldid=140785 * Int-e * (+0) fox typo
01:51:17 <esolangs> [[PIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140787&oldid=140715 * MihaiEso * (+45)
01:58:20 <esolangs> [[User:Int-e/BFBB]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140788&oldid=140786 * Int-e * (+160) Oh this would be better.
02:05:47 <int-e> korvo: obviously I'm wondering whether I'm reinventing a wheel here. it's hard to search for such things
02:08:32 <esolangs> [[PIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140789&oldid=140787 * MihaiEso * (+37)
02:10:24 <esolangs> [[User:Int-e/BFBB]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140790&oldid=140788 * Int-e * (+17) fix another typo-of-sorts
02:13:26 <korvo> It's new to me, at least.
02:38:51 <esolangs> [[User:Int-e/BFBB]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140791&oldid=140790 * Int-e * (+479) Actually analysing the modified version was surprisingly easy.
02:41:42 <int-e> korvo: Not sure if you see esolangs, I updated the page with a 37 character candidate (instead of 38) that has almost the same number of steps.
02:41:53 <int-e> I should sleep though.
02:43:18 <int-e> (I actually don't know whether that will result in more steps or fewer; probably fewer, but it'll be close anyway)
02:44:17 <esolangs> [[User:Int-e/BFBB]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140792&oldid=140791 * Int-e * (+2) no longer a TODO
02:44:57 <esolangs> [[User:Int-e/BFBB]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140793&oldid=140792 * Int-e * (-5) /* About */ ...grammar
02:49:56 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * MihaiEso * uploaded "[[File:PIX logo.png]]": [[PIX]]'s official logo. Created by [[User:MihaiEso|myself!]]
02:49:58 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:1986]]": unapproved category (and redundant to existing categories)
02:53:50 <korvo> int-e: Yeah, I see them. Have a good night.
02:55:36 <esolangs> [[1L]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140795&oldid=138806 * Ais523 * (+15) +[[Turn Left]]
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03:06:28 <esolangs> [[PIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140796&oldid=140789 * MihaiEso * (+974) Added official logo, as PNG and PIX!
03:07:05 <esolangs> [[PIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140797&oldid=140796 * MihaiEso * (+3) /* Minecraft official site favicon */
03:23:17 <esolangs> [[Lenum]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140798&oldid=140750 * Iddi01 * (+6) /* Bf loop equivalent */ I'd meant "relay point"
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03:40:37 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140799&oldid=128490 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+968) /* commands */
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03:48:58 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140800&oldid=140709 * Iddi01 * (+141) Added some languages, still too few
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04:51:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140801&oldid=76896 * Yayimhere * (+91) /* A seperate algorithm page? */
04:53:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:Macro]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140802 * Yayimhere * (+46) Created page with "can macros be nested. can i do: a -> (a -> b)"
05:18:37 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/BRING BACK THE OLD SANDBOX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140803&oldid=140782 * MihaiEso * (+52) /* ^ENGLISH */
05:19:41 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/BRING BACK THE OLD SANDBOX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140804&oldid=140803 * MihaiEso * (+48) /* JAVASCRIPT */
05:23:27 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/BRING BACK THE OLD SANDBOX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140805&oldid=140804 * MihaiEso * (+12) /* HTML */
05:25:02 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/BRING BACK THE OLD SANDBOX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140806&oldid=140805 * MihaiEso * (+110) /* BASIC */
05:28:17 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/BRING BACK THE OLD SANDBOX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140807&oldid=140806 * MihaiEso * (-20) /* BASIC (MIHAI POPA) */
05:29:37 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/BRING BACK THE OLD SANDBOX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140808&oldid=140807 * MihaiEso * (+87) /* EMOJILANG */
05:29:53 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/BRING BACK THE OLD SANDBOX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140809&oldid=140808 * MihaiEso * (-13) /* BASIC (MIHAI POPA) */
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05:31:04 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/BRING BACK THE OLD SANDBOX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140810&oldid=140809 * MihaiEso * (+105)
05:32:13 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/BRING BACK THE OLD SANDBOX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140811&oldid=140810 * MihaiEso * (+12) /* GAME OF LIFE */
05:33:06 <esolangs> [[Lenum]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140812&oldid=140798 * Iddi01 * (+307) /* Examples */ looping counter and f-seq
05:58:10 <esolangs> [[Talk:Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140813&oldid=140741 * Iddi01 * (+403) /* Semi-serious language list */
06:05:01 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140814&oldid=140780 * Ractangle * (+18)
06:05:40 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140815&oldid=140800 * Iddi01 * (+70) Change criteria according to suggestions
06:08:02 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[Snakel]] to [[Snakel (DifferentDance8)]]
06:11:49 <esolangs> [[Snakel (Ractangle)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140818 * Ractangle * (+125) Created page with "Snakel (or '''Python''' in our universe) is an esolang created by [[User: Ractangle]] in 2024 (or in 1989 by Remomple Tengle)"
06:12:00 <esolangs> [[Snakel (Ractangle)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140819&oldid=140818 * Ractangle * (+9)
06:13:40 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140820&oldid=140817 * Ractangle * (+85) Removed redirect to [[Snakel (DifferentDance8)]]
06:15:23 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140821&oldid=140820 * Ractangle * (+43)
06:15:50 <esolangs> [[Snakel (Ractangle)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140822&oldid=140819 * Ractangle * (+26)
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06:56:10 <esolangs> [[Snakel (DifferentDance8)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140823&oldid=140816 * DifferentDance8 * (+22)
07:22:08 <esolangs> [[Talk:!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140824&oldid=140801 * PkmnQ * (+190)
07:35:57 <esolangs> [[Talk:Uppercase=Lowercase]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140825&oldid=136518 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+284)
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07:56:27 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140826&oldid=140799 * Ractangle * (-771) /* commands */
08:35:44 <esolangs> [[Malbolge Unshackled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140827&oldid=128056 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+60) /* Computational class */
08:51:27 <esolangs> [[Snakel (Ractangle)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140828&oldid=140822 * Ractangle * (+57)
08:52:07 <esolangs> [[Snakel (Ractangle)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140829&oldid=140828 * Ractangle * (+11)
08:56:03 <esolangs> [[Snakel (DifferentDance8)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140830&oldid=140823 * Ractangle * (-18)
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10:34:57 <int-e> korvo: on https://mostawesomedude.github.io/bb-gauge/brainfuck.html you should probably clarify whether cells can become negative
10:36:58 <int-e> Oh actually it doesn't specify the range of values in a cell at all. I thought it said that it was unbounded but I misread yesterday; that was about the number of cells.
10:38:09 <int-e> And, from discussion with tromp just now, it's unclear what happens with a program like <+ ...is the program illegal, or does it halt on the first step? or maybe the < becomes a no-op... there are some wild possibilities here.
10:51:45 <tromp> wildest possibility: use opcodes , and . as well, providing access to binary input that follows the bf program following an unmatched ] separator
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11:21:22 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140831 * PrySigneToFry * (+4231) Created page with "''''(s y ...... ma?) is designed by PSTF. It is designed for use SC to express [[Sakana]]. == Commands == Unlike Deadfish, this Esolang has commands for handling input, and it uses a memory tape(I call the cell "x") and 4 accumulators(a, b, c, and d). {| class="wikita
11:22:31 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140832&oldid=140740 * PrySigneToFry * (+25)
11:26:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140833&oldid=140783 * PrySigneToFry * (+751) /* If you want, make this scarier. */ new section
11:31:05 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140834&oldid=140815 * None1 * (+14) /* B */ Befunge-93 will count in the modified rules
11:33:06 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140835&oldid=140834 * None1 * (+16) /* Non-alphabetic */
11:37:52 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140836&oldid=140835 * None1 * (+20) /* G */
11:39:20 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140837&oldid=140836 * None1 * (+26) /* T */
11:49:39 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140838&oldid=140832 * None1 * (+33) /* See also */
11:50:52 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140839&oldid=140837 * None1 * (+12) /* P */
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11:52:07 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140840&oldid=140839 * None1 * (+16) /* I */
11:56:26 <esolangs> [[Talk:Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140841&oldid=139535 * None1 * (+384) /* Someone should change the featured language. */
11:56:36 <APic> Celebrate Bureflux! Hail Erïs!
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12:04:54 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140842&oldid=140831 * None1 * (-13) /* See also */
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12:14:02 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140843&oldid=140826 * None1 * (+46) /* commands */
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12:56:24 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140844&oldid=138694 * None1 * (-93)
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13:28:20 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/PSTF Again1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140845 * PrySigneToFry * (+1528) Created page with "Translated ZhongWen/PSTF Again 1 is designed by PSTF, and it is crazier version of [[Translated ZhongWen/MihaiEso]]. 1. Take this "program" <pre> > b __ > + > > rwy'n"d->a> 1kg ..."
13:28:51 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140846&oldid=139136 * PrySigneToFry * (+43)
13:31:05 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/PSTF Again1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140847&oldid=140845 * MihaiEso * (+45)
13:47:12 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140848 * MihaiEso * (+2237) Created page with "Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again is designed by MihaiEso, and it is crazier version of [[Translated ZhongWen/PSTF Again1]]. ~~~~ 1. Take this "program", which BTW looks bad. <pre> []79777yy8166666663 []7977 MaroFajro MMA KIO ..."
13:47:33 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140849&oldid=140848 * MihaiEso * (-87)
13:49:06 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140850&oldid=140722 * MihaiEso * (+83) /* Horribly translated variants */
13:57:34 <esolangs> [[+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140851 * None1 * (+3394) Created page with "'''+''' is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]], it is an extension to [[]]. ==Stack== In addition to the original accumulator in , + has a stack, popping from the stack returns 0. Both the stack and the accumulator store unbounded signed values. ==Commands== <pre> Command Me
13:58:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140852&oldid=133761 * None1 * (+273) /* I think this can add even more commands, not only , , , and . */
13:59:10 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140853&oldid=135252 * None1 * (+38) /* See also */
14:00:39 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140854&oldid=140838 * None1 * (+38) /* Non-alphabetic */
14:01:36 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140855&oldid=140724 * None1 * (+91) /* My Esolangs */
14:04:53 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again5]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140856 * MihaiEso * (+986) Created page with "[[Translated ORK/None1 again6|This]] is not crazy enough, so let's be crazier with more crappy translations! 1. Take this crappy, original text: <pre> ! The meaning of Japan and Japan humanity. ! Rubber, two, rig, fox cgi Limited only ! The meaning
14:07:21 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140857&oldid=140850 * MihaiEso * (+56) /* Horribly translated variants */
14:10:43 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/None1 again6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140858&oldid=140718 * MihaiEso * (+66)
14:14:34 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * None1 * uploaded "[[File:Pkdck.png]]": [[+]] by [[User:None1]]
14:15:04 <esolangs> [[+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140860&oldid=140851 * None1 * (+62)
14:25:22 <esolangs> [[Subleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140861&oldid=134240 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+97) Added wayback links
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14:34:39 <esolangs> [[Malbolge Unshackled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140862&oldid=140827 * PkmnQ * (+29) /* Computational class */
14:36:15 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/PSTF Again2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140863 * PrySigneToFry * (+1609) Created page with "[[Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again|]] 1. Drag that big sh*t out <pre> 8166666663 [] Spirit ..."
14:36:39 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140864&oldid=140849 * PrySigneToFry * (+45)
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14:37:27 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140865&oldid=140857 * PrySigneToFry * (+43)
14:48:31 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140866&oldid=140864 * MihaiEso * (-4)
14:53:16 <esolangs> [[Malbolge Unshackled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140867&oldid=140862 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+0)
14:53:28 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/PSTF Again2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140868&oldid=140863 * MihaiEso * (+46)
15:04:41 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/PSTF Again10]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140869 * PrySigneToFry * (+1032) Created page with "It's a big piece of sh1t that more shitty than [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again5]]. 1. Drag out the ruins that have passed through the apocalypse <pre> ! Issue # 1 is the last issue of this year's General Intentions. ! We couldn't save ourselves.
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15:05:57 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140870&oldid=140865 * PrySigneToFry * (+57)
15:09:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:Unname4798]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140871&oldid=140713 * PrySigneToFry * (+4) warring
15:12:13 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * S7rayCat * New user account
15:12:58 <korvo> int-e, tromp: You're right, I should specify what's going on. Not sure if I'll get to that today, but it's easy enough to do soon.
15:18:15 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140872&oldid=140654 * S7rayCat * (+210)
15:18:16 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140873 * MihaiEso * (+2045) Created page with "Made [[Translated ZhongWen/PSTF Again1]] more rubbish 1. Drag this rubbish program <pre> ^[yY] _ ..."
15:19:19 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/PSTF Again10]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140874&oldid=140869 * MihaiEso * (+39)
15:19:55 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140875&oldid=140872 * S7rayCat * (+6)
15:21:43 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140876&oldid=140873 * MihaiEso * (+0)
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15:29:42 <esolangs> [[User talk:Unname4798]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140877&oldid=140871 * Unname4798 * (-23) H4XXOR is Not a Number
15:30:16 <korvo> S7rayCat: Morning.
15:30:40 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again6]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140878 * MihaiEso * (+1068) Created page with "It's a big piece of rubbish that is worse than [[Translated ORK/PSTF Again10]]. 1. Drag this. <pre> Place it on the pillow and pour in a column of mustard. I'm very angry if someone is here, but you're sharing too much. Place it on the pillow and p
15:31:32 <S7rayCat> btw, does anyone have an interpreter for cubed that's runable on a rpi4
15:31:56 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140879&oldid=140870 * MihaiEso * (+103) /* Horribly translated variants */
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16:05:18 <esolangs> [[Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140880&oldid=138712 * Ractangle * (+20) [[User:None1]] Technically us non admins can also edit the page. Probably
16:05:26 <esolangs> [[Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140881&oldid=140880 * Ractangle * (-20)
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16:38:58 <PCWWWWW> i got a pretty weird idea for an esolang
16:39:30 <PCWWWWW> and tries to make or recognie it has syntax and run it as a program
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17:13:19 <Sgeo> How many esolangs emit video? I'm pondering getting a MiSTer FPGA, and it would be cool to implement something in it. BytePusher would probably be the first, I've done a wasm vm for it, and it's graphical
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17:17:15 <b_jonas> Sgeo: https://esolangs.org/wiki/BMOW_1 has a custom graphics card
17:17:33 <b_jonas> with *two* different modes: bitmap and tile/character-based
17:17:46 <korvo> Like, *must* emit video? Cammy can be interpreted as producing animations, and I have a CPU emulator, but I haven't done a GPU version yet, let alone FPGA stuff.
17:18:06 <b_jonas> making a graphics card is impressive on its own, but making one with two modes really shows that BMOW wanted to go the distance
17:19:12 <korvo> Okay, BMOW-1 is rad. This has made my day. What an effort.
17:19:15 <Sgeo> I feel like emitting video is less likely to break my brain than emitting text. Although I'd probably just... borrow from the PDP-1 core or something
17:19:34 <b_jonas> and https://www.bigmessowires.com/cpu-in-a-cpld/ has some kind of display, but I'm not sure of the details
17:19:35 <Sgeo> I know little about electronics
17:20:07 <Sgeo> Like, a tutorial about Verilog mentioned pull-up resistors, and I... uh. I don't get it.
17:20:18 <Sgeo> pull-up and pull-down resistors are sort of... defaults?
17:22:02 <b_jonas> https://www.linusakesson.net/scene/bitbanger/index.php emits video but I don't think it counts as a programming language in any sense
17:22:57 <b_jonas> there are some 2D https://esolangs.org/wiki/Cellular_automaton that you may count
17:23:33 <Sgeo> https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Life_MiSTer GOL is implemented for MiSTer
17:24:31 <b_jonas> obviously with any capable language that can output bits you could write a program that outputs a file that you can easily interpret as graphics, raw or with headers at your choice
17:25:48 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140899&oldid=133024 * TJC games * (+8) /* All functions */
17:26:37 <b_jonas> oh, https://esolangs.org/wiki/MIX_(Knuth)#MIXPC_extensions apparently has bitmap output but with an embarrassingly small resolution of 80×40 px resolution
17:27:26 <b_jonas> I have output an ascii art maze from an esolang program at one point, does that count?
17:28:24 <b_jonas> then there's https://esolangs.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_esoteric_programming_languages#Ken_Knowlton's_languages
17:29:28 <korvo> There's a couple environments like tixy or shadertoy that host small pure programs in languages like ES or GLSL, and I assume that that's *not* what you're looking for, not least because they aren't intended to compile to FPGA.
17:30:12 <korvo> At the same time, I can't ignore that there's a fairly generic way to compile pure languages to digital logic: http://conal.net/papers/compiling-to-categories/compiling-to-categories.pdf
17:31:30 <b_jonas> I also had vague plans for a language that inputs and outputs pixel graphics, but I haven't developed any of it
17:42:33 <PCWWWWW> can i get an answer maybe perhaps idk. like feedback(and if its possible)
17:50:40 <korvo> PCWWWWW: It's an incoherent question. A language is merely a set of sentences; you're confusing the algorithm of an interpreter with the language which it recognizes.
17:51:13 <korvo> It's an instance of Do What I Mean (DWIM), a famous failed computing paradigm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DWIM
17:51:56 <PCWWWWW> first try to find some syntax with a predifined function and mane up the lang
17:52:06 <PCWWWWW> then intepret the rest of the code after some delimiter
17:52:25 <korvo> As in literate programming?
17:55:09 <korvo> PCWWWWW: What's the goal here? Your original phrasing was very generic.
17:56:06 <PCWWWWW> my goal is to bascially make everything runnable
17:56:49 <korvo> Oh. Yeah, that's not workable.
17:57:22 <korvo> I thought you were thinking of something more like https://gist.github.com/trauber/4955706 or https://github.com/vijithassar/lit
17:57:27 <PCWWWWW> to make a new lang every time kinda but also not
17:59:02 <korvo> I think that you often want to shift the burden of formality to the computer.
17:59:48 <PCWWWWW> talking about me or generally
18:00:15 <korvo> Talking about a pattern in your projects.
18:00:34 <korvo> Computers aren't magic. They're abstract symbol-manipulation robots.
18:02:24 <korvo> A pile of symbols doesn't have a meaning. We, the humans, assign meaning to the symbols.
18:02:35 <korvo> So what exactly are you hoping will happen when you give a pile of symbols to the computer?
18:03:51 <PCWWWWW> well. im trying in this way
18:04:28 <PCWWWWW> you have some *function* that the first program is assumed to be
18:04:48 <PCWWWWW> no the computer *tries* to find patterns
18:04:59 <PCWWWWW> that compute that *function*
18:07:47 <korvo> Unfortunately, sometimes a sentence is a member of two languages. So, let's assume that we've taught the computer our culture somehow (language modeling, whatever) and it's got an idea of what a proglang looks like.
18:09:25 <korvo> `x = 7; y = 2; print(x/y)` is valid Python 2 and Python 3, printing different results. Both flavors of Python have been culturally popular. Which one would your program pick and why?
18:09:28 <HackEso> x? No such file or directory
18:11:10 <PCWWWWW> prop python 2 since its simpler(i think) cuz then it easier to construct from the code. if we know the result or thing it computes
18:11:51 <korvo> Okay, yeah, this is a hopeless desire and I think that you should modify it to something more tractable.
18:12:33 <PCWWWWW> idk even know im rlly just beugn the idea
18:14:21 <korvo> I don't think iterating on this idea will help. I think that you're at a common stage for beginners and that you need to get past the hope that the computer can do any thinking for you.
18:15:14 <korvo> A program is a *specification* of what the computer ought to do. To the degree that the program is formalized, the computer's behavior is constrained. What you're asking for is to somehow instruct the computer without specification, as if it were a human laborer.
18:16:00 <korvo> (And even then many people would argue that labor is required to encode abstract desires into a specification for what a human ought to do. There's no free lunch here.)
18:17:33 <PCWWWWW> lets say we ave the function the first program needs to compile be idk
18:17:55 <HackEso> print("hello? No such file or directory
18:18:31 <b_jonas> `python3 -cprint("hello world")
18:18:31 <PCWWWWW> just map earch char to one the of the commands ith the last one being the chars left
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18:21:49 <korvo> PCWWWWW92: Yeah, that's not going to be implementable. What are the semantics? Is "this" a Unicode string, for example? How is the computer supposed to figure that out?
18:22:34 <PCWWWWW92> a functon that maps each char of one string
18:22:49 <PCWWWWW92> (the chars of the other are the commands)
18:23:30 <korvo> You're assuming a particular ALGOL-ish paradigm which isn't universal. What should happen with this relatively famous program? {⊃1 ⍵ ∨.∧ 3 4 = +/ +⌿ ¯1 0 1 ∘.⊖ ¯1 0 1 ⌽¨ ⊂⍵}
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18:24:57 <PCWWWWW92> idk. idk anything about APL other than that it exists
18:25:12 <korvo> PCWWWWW92: Did you recognize that syntax offhand or did you search for it?
18:25:38 <korvo> I know that my questions are mean, but I'm hoping that you're starting to see why we propose that you *implement* your designs.
18:26:18 <korvo> I don't believe that. But fine, let's assume that you're incapable of implementing proglangs. Why are you designing them?
18:27:13 <korvo> Why do you think programmers design and implement proglangs? It's not a matter of sanity, although folks will often make jokes about that.
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18:27:51 <int-e> keeping busy isn't the same as keeping yourself sane
18:29:01 <korvo> PCWWWWW92: I didn't ask you about your reasons. I'm asking you to empathize with the rest of the community of programmers; why do you think *they* do it?
18:29:20 <PCWWWWW92> idk. to make something intresting?
18:30:12 <korvo> Nope. They do it in order to *collaborate*, to *shorten programs*, to *verify properties* and achieve *automatic safety*, to enable *abstractions*, and to make *legible* or *documented* parts of their systems.
18:31:03 <korvo> Otherwise we'd just use assembler. Real programmers don't mind, as long as they're paid by the hour and not merely by the line.
18:32:40 <korvo> PCWWWWW92: All that said, I don't want to discourage you from making conlangs. It's an important art form. There's nothing wrong with conlangs that a computer can interpret.
18:32:55 <korvo> But this idea of yours isn't even a conlang.
18:33:57 <korvo> Try removing "stupid" from your vocabulary; intelligence is probably not a real thing. Also "just" means "I believe". So you're saying "I believe it's an idea." I believe it's an idea too!
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18:35:19 <korvo> You think I'm being silly. I think I'm accurately summarizing the works of 20th-century philosopher Robert Pirsig. We aren't the same.
18:36:13 <korvo> BTW Pirsig wrote FORTRAN manuals as one of his dayjobs. He understood stuff like the software-hardware distinction and the difference between languages, programs, and computers.
18:40:53 <PCWWWWW> underload but its only : , ^ , * and the P Q R L stuff
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18:53:58 <int-e> Sgeo: Real hardware is dirty. IIUC pull-up transistors can pull a line (typically connected to ground with a resistor to make it default to low) up to Vcc. You can have several such transistors on a single line. You even have tri-state outputs that can be either disconnected, pull down, or pull up. There are weak and strong versions of these too... strong versions can override weak versions. I...
18:54:04 <int-e> ...also think that this is mostly for low-speed buses. Internally you're usually using CMOS (which in a way have both pull-up and pull-down transistors for every signal, and no resistors). And on high-speed buses you also want to pull signals up and down actively, so again you won't have many resistors driving signals.
18:55:21 <Sgeo> I need a tutorial on electronics, I think
18:55:32 <Sgeo> And no kids songs that incorrectly claim "You can't violate Ohm's law"
18:56:31 <int-e> I'm not a hardware guy. I did enjoy the topic though... used to borrow Hennessy-Patterson for a while, though the only thing that stuck was the idea of carry prediction to reduce the critical path length in multi-bit adders.
18:57:06 <int-e> Sgeo: If you violate Ohm's law you get blue smoke.
18:58:14 <int-e> (Ohm's law breaks down catastrophically when a resistor overheats. That includes low-resistance resistors like wires or metal contacts, which are the things that tend to burn up in a short circuit.)
18:59:39 <b_jonas> I don't know much about electronics. I work in a job where a lot of my co-workers do electronics, but I do the software side, so at most I have to know not to touch wires that may be live.
19:03:07 <int-e> "up to Vcc" - minus a threshold voltage whose name I'd have to look up that is required to pass through the transistor itself.
19:06:35 <int-e> The other thing I remember was that hardware people play tricks with the geometry of the gates of FETs to make logical ands and ors and even mixes thereof with a single source and drain.
19:07:26 <int-e> Which was fun too. It won't come up in Verilog, it's way lower level than that.
19:08:46 <int-e> I have, sadly, never actually touched Verilog.
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20:14:55 <esolangs> [[Yayimhere-like esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140901&oldid=138962 * Ractangle * (+12) /* Looping counter */
20:15:36 <esolangs> [[Yayimhere-like esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140902&oldid=140901 * Ractangle * (+14) /* Looping counter */
20:16:19 <esolangs> [[Yayimhere-like esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140903&oldid=140902 * Ractangle * (-11) /* syntax */
20:19:51 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140904&oldid=140276 * Ractangle * (+32) /* Brain-Flak */
20:23:10 <esolangs> [[EsoFmt]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140905&oldid=136132 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Interpreter */
20:25:12 <esolangs> [[TTML]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140906&oldid=71014 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Example */
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20:37:06 <esolangs> [[Plurple]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140908&oldid=120928 * Ractangle * (+25) /* Why Plurple? */
20:53:40 <esolangs> [[Zone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140909&oldid=103687 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Implementation */
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21:10:38 <esolangs> [[Tapelang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140911&oldid=100159 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+134) Link, categories
21:12:48 <esolangs> [[Talk:Uppercase=Lowercase]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140912&oldid=140825 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+46) Unsigned
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22:01:41 <ais523> Sgeo_: so I have a degree in electronics, if that's helpful for anything?
22:02:44 <ais523> also, I would argue that theoretically Ohm's law is a definition and thus can't be violated by definition – but some of the numbers that you plug into it might have unexpected values, if you're doing something weird
22:07:23 <ais523> e.g. if you buy a 470 ohm resistor from a shop, it won't be guaranteed to have a resistance of 470 ohms in all possible circumstances – just the circumstances in which that sort of resistor is normally used
22:07:30 <b_jonas> ais523: not really, because I know they also give those degrees to incompetent people
22:08:11 <ais523> well, this was a combined bachelor's+master's degree, I think if you're incompetent you only get the bachelor's portion
22:08:41 <b_jonas> well sure, those resistors usually have a voltage limit because they can just melt if you send lots of currents through it
22:09:02 <ais523> after two years the pass mark went up from 40% to 50%, including retroactively (if I'd had too many scores between 40% and 50% I would have had to change to bachelor's only at that point)
22:09:40 <ais523> that said, it was clear that some of the students in the group project were better than others
22:09:51 <b_jonas> ais523: perhaps that is so now, but I saw this back before the Bologna system was introduced here so the degrees were 5 year program ones, and I think you're old enough for that
22:10:25 <ais523> it probably varies a lot from country to country and decade to decade
22:10:47 <b_jonas> and between universities and between the programs in those universities, yes
22:11:27 <ais523> I was starting to move more into CS by the end of my degree, though
22:11:54 <b_jonas> I mean some of the universities keep renaming themeslves every five years just to try to confuse employers that the degrees that they give out are real
22:12:08 <ais523> I like to joke that my Master's thesis was about writing a compiler for a particular computational model, and my PhD thesis was about figuring out why it worked
22:13:09 <b_jonas> I mean that was still normal in my father's time: back then there was no separate CS education, so everyone who studied software programming got a degree saying electric engineering
22:13:23 <b_jonas> so my father has an electric engineering degree
22:13:42 <ais523> for my PhD I went to look up lots of old books on computer science, but they were filed under "philosophy" because computers hadn't been invented at the time
22:14:02 <ais523> and so the weird sorts of logic they were defining weren't obviously useful for anything
22:14:33 <ais523> in particular I was working with affine logic a lot, which doesn't really make much sense if you try to make logical sense of the real world with it
22:14:54 <ais523> this was a bit before Rust was created, so I feel like I got a head start in terms of understanding it
22:15:15 <ais523> err, not sure about the actual creation date, but before it became widely known, at least
22:15:47 <b_jonas> https://i.giantitp.com//comics/oots/oots1099.png “I'm an astronomer, not an adventurer. (There aren't a lot of dwarven organizations that offer funding for looking at the sky.)”
22:17:10 <b_jonas> fizzie: you asked for the webserver to break outside of work time, right?
22:20:14 <ais523> b_jonas: anyway, my degree is explicitly a degree in electronics even though the university also offered computer science and software engineering degrees
22:21:02 <ais523> this was partly because I wasn't sure what I wanted to be doing yet, and it is much cheaper to study CS on your own than it is to study electronics on your own – doing the degree meant that I could borrow expensive equipment from the university if I needed it
22:21:37 <b_jonas> sure, but they still count as close enough that people often work in related areas with those degrees
22:22:03 <ais523> (and I was much more careful with it than most – I don't think I've destroyed anything more expensive than a cheap mass-produced capacitor or diode)
22:22:33 <ais523> (in the course of doing electronics on it, at least)
22:22:45 <ais523> I defintely have set at least one diode on fire, it is easy to do by mistake
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22:25:12 <b_jonas> fizzie: oops, looks like it's working again
22:45:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Space * New user account
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