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01:09:15 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox/OotT ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163206&oldid=163205 * XP2PHOENIX * (+104)
01:13:57 <esolangs> [[User:Junkshipp/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163207&oldid=163201 * Junkshipp * (+410) /* Example code */
01:14:18 <esolangs> [[User:Junkshipp/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163208&oldid=163207 * Junkshipp * (+55) /* Example code */
01:50:13 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163209&oldid=163022 * PrySigneToFry * (+133)
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02:17:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox/OotT ideas]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163213 * Hotcrystal0 * (+297) Created page with "xp2, why wont you use this page to discuss? ~~~~"
02:17:42 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163214&oldid=153435 * Hotcrystal0 * (-620) Blanked the page
02:20:47 <esolangs> [[Thisthat]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163215&oldid=161078 * Aadenboy * (-22) /* Truth machine */ redundancy
02:29:20 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox/OotT ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163216&oldid=163212 * XP2PHOENIX * (+471) /* Ideas */
02:31:09 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox/OotT ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163217&oldid=163216 * Hotcrystal0 * (+41)
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03:14:01 <esolangs> [[User:/nil]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163225&oldid=163050 * PrySigneToFry * (+62)
03:16:21 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/wikipiss]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163226&oldid=160014 * Aadenboy * (+4721) more fuel for the fire
03:16:55 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/wikipiss]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163227&oldid=163226 * Aadenboy * (-4721) nevermind
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09:20:55 <esolangs> [[Bantas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163234&oldid=163233 * Muthym * (-15) /* Commands */
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10:16:05 <esolangs> [[DragonLang/Example]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163235 * PrySigneToFry * (+339) Created page with "{{Back|DragonLang}} = Hello, World! = I should take into account many people who don't know how to code. print("Hello, World!") = Collatz Sequence = <pre> let x <- int(input()); while x != 1: if x.odd() = true: print(f"3{x}+1={x*3+1}");
10:17:13 <esolangs> [[DragonLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163236&oldid=160947 * PrySigneToFry * (-9)
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11:05:38 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/A cubic box full of dried miscellaneous rock pieces form a beach for user's own playground]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163238&oldid=163181 * PrySigneToFry * (+115)
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11:58:32 <b_jonas> well now I'm running debian oldoldstable once again. sad.
11:59:54 <b_jonas> wait, they no longer officially support x86_32? that's a pity. there's still some cheap x86_32 hardware out there.
12:14:52 <b_jonas> when I get to it, I'll have to decide if I want to double-upgrade in place or reinstall. for now I'm leaning towards double-upgrade.
12:20:16 <esolangs> [[User:Junkshipp/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163239&oldid=163208 * Junkshipp * (-2) /* Notes */
12:21:38 <HackEso> Description:Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
12:21:55 <fizzie> That's I guess now oldoldoldstable.
12:23:11 <fizzie> (All the "real" installations I'm responsible for are on 12/bookworm, I just never get around to upgrading that container-like thing.)
12:27:18 <fizzie> Actually I wonder if it would make more sense to run that as an actual OCI image rather than a systemd-nspawn oddity. I think those get the same level of namespace-based isolation, and then it would be easier to just swap the base.
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12:35:18 <b_jonas> fizzie: https://www.debian.org/releases/ doesn't call it oldoldoldstable.
12:36:12 <b_jonas> also breaking that list with a "historic releases" headline is painful, it says I'm so old I belong into a museum because I ran those releases
12:36:45 <b_jonas> they may be running out of good character names in the franchise
12:37:09 <int-e> More Toy Story I see... but surely there are better names available?
12:38:06 <b_jonas> maybe they'll have to switch to a different classic movie or TV series, one that has much more character names
12:39:15 <b_jonas> Trixie would have been a good opportunity because it's also the name of a significant MLP character, and MLP has a TON of named characters, but it's too late if they named Forky and Duke
12:39:24 <int-e> Oh... part of the story is that they burned 8 names on 1.1 to 3.1
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12:41:56 <b_jonas> int-e: no, I think those are genuine separate releases, it's just that the world hadn't started the version number inflation yet, and it was completely normal for a project to have its major version number stay the same forever and the so-called minor version number changed when there's a huge incompatible change
12:42:15 <int-e> But they also have quie a few left. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toy_Story_characters
12:44:58 <int-e> And what do I know. Maybe Forky is a cool character? But without context it's just an... interesting label for a collection of software.
12:45:10 <b_jonas> int-e: some of them are ineligible. you can't call a release "RC" because everyone would read that as "release candidate".
12:45:39 <int-e> b_jonas: See that's the kind of logic that I thought would also apply to "forky" :P
12:47:46 <int-e> (And yeah, I saw "RC" and giggled for this reason.)
12:48:36 <int-e> (Ken and Barbie would probably be risky too. Not just because of trademark issues but also because you'd have to pick one before the other...)
12:54:48 <b_jonas> int-e: Ken and Barbie are from Toy Story 3. isn't that non-canon for the purpose of naming debian releases?
12:55:18 <b_jonas> I'm not into Toy Story, I don't know how many films the fans consider good
13:01:38 <ais523> b_jonas: I think they used all the Toy Story 1 characters before moving onto Toy Story 2, not sure though
13:06:42 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Game:Nonsense/End]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163240&oldid=159029 * PrySigneToFry * (+10) Change the link to a game
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13:10:59 <b_jonas> oh, stretch is apparently from Toy Story 3
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13:11:46 <b_jonas> and trixie. so Toy Story 3 is definitely allowed.
13:12:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[User:I am islptng/Game:Nonsense]]": not esolang-related, and edits by other users are destroying any purpose this group of subpages might originally have had
13:12:34 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[User:I am islptng/Game:Nonsense/1]]": not esolang-related, and edits by other users are destroying any purpose this group of subpages might originally have had
13:12:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[User:I am islptng/Game:Nonsense/2]]": not esolang-related, and edits by other users are destroying any purpose this group of subpages might originally have had
13:12:47 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[User:I am islptng/Game:Nonsense/End]]": not esolang-related, and edits by other users are destroying any purpose this group of subpages might originally have had
13:15:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Policy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163241&oldid=135794 * Ais523 * (+205) /* Policy summary */ clarify that it's inappropriate to use this website to host things unrelated to its purpose I suspect this has always been a rule, but not everyone seems to realise it exists
13:16:19 <ais523> I think I've seen at least two Toy Story films, but don't really remember
13:16:31 <ais523> they weren't particularly inspiring or memorable
13:17:25 <ais523> I assume that after running out of Toy Story characters, the next generalisation would be characters in other films by Pixar
13:17:55 <ais523> although maybe that would be unacceptable and there would be a need to persuade Pixar to release another Toy Story film, just so that Debian could continue
13:21:13 <b_jonas> I don't think that works well because most of the time Pixar sequels of sequels are bad
13:21:36 <ais523> well it'd still let Debian continue even if nobody watched it?
13:22:04 <b_jonas> naah, the characters introduced it wouldn't really count as canonical Toy Story characters
13:22:48 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163242&oldid=161992 * PrySigneToFry * (-38) Deleting a red link
13:23:03 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163243&oldid=163097 * C++DSUCKER * (+20)
13:23:28 <b_jonas> also I think they should pick a franchise from a publisher that's less aggressive with defending their trademarks than Disney.
13:23:49 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163244&oldid=162531 * PrySigneToFry * (+107) /* ... */ new section
13:24:02 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163245&oldid=163243 * C++DSUCKER * (+0)
13:25:59 <ais523> I think Disney didn't own Pixar at the time Debian started?
13:26:37 <b_jonas> but Disney owns it now, and they probably care more about *recent* trademarks, like from a new film
13:26:52 <ais523> also, things are only trademarked in a particular context, Disney is unlikely to trademark their characters in the context of computer software
13:27:06 <ais523> maybe they would though
13:27:33 <b_jonas> I wonder if Debian could get a cheap license with some publisher that allows them to use certain names and maybe even release release-specific merchandise, for some cut of the merch income to the publisher
13:28:00 <ais523> this lead to a high-profile incident when Apple the music label and Apple the computer manufacturer coexisted for years, then the computer manufacturer released iTunes and ended up intruding on the trademark context
13:28:03 <ais523> I forget how that one was resolved
13:29:22 <ais523> Wikipedia says that the computer company purchased the name from the music company, eventually
13:31:13 <ais523> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
13:59:35 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0 3rd time]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163246&oldid=159032 * Hotcrystal0 * (+7152)
14:04:27 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox/OotT ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163247&oldid=163223 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1389)
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14:45:21 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/A cubic box full of dried miscellaneous rock pieces form a beach for user's own playground]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163248&oldid=163238 * Pifrited * (+186) /* yxdyxxryi Lang */
14:50:16 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/A cubic box full of dried miscellaneous rock pieces form a beach for user's own playground]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163249&oldid=163248 * Pifrited * (+130)
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15:26:44 <korvo> Debian could always switch to year-oriented release numbers. It's not like anybody's going to confuse them for Ubuntu.
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16:00:33 <ais523> well, "trixie" does sound a lot like an Ubuntu version name – it isn't actually an adjective, but some of their adjectives are really obscure and it sounds like it could be an adjective that one hasn't heard of (it has the right sound in the ending, at least)
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17:18:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * MAKSZAB * New user account
17:18:59 <b_jonas> ais523: yeah, it's just spelled wrong, it would be "tricksy" if it's not a proper noun
17:19:20 <ais523> oh right, that is an adjective
17:20:13 <ais523> Ubuntu isn't far off T at the moment, maybe they could pick the phonetically same name as Debian
17:20:30 <b_jonas> I don't think they would want to
17:25:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163250&oldid=163105 * MAKSZAB * (+213)
17:26:59 <esolangs> [[User:MAKSZAB]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163251 * MAKSZAB * (+59) I exist
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17:42:23 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163252&oldid=163122 * Ractangle * (-5)
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17:57:03 <esolangs> [[MarkupL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163253&oldid=163195 * Ractangle * (-296)
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18:07:16 <esolangs> [[Stuley]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163254&oldid=152503 * Ractangle * (-113)
18:07:49 <esolangs> [[Stuley]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163255&oldid=163254 * Ractangle * (-6) /* Syntax */
18:41:43 <esolangs> [[Talk:Spellblocks]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163256 * WarzokERNST135 * (+134) Created page with "Did you make this on penguinmod ~~~~"
18:44:30 <esolangs> [[Talk:Spellblocks]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163257&oldid=163256 * WarzokERNST135 * (-134) Blanked the page
18:44:56 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * WarzokERNST135 * moved [[Talk:Spellblocks]] to [[Dfhjdsbfjhdsgfsdjhfbsdhhfbnshd]]: I dunno how to delete
18:45:43 <esolangs> [[Talk:Spellblocks]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163260&oldid=163259 * WarzokERNST135 * (-44) Blanked the page
19:04:58 <esolangs> [[Witsaff]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163261 * Corbin * (+3810) Stub an old note. Trying to clean out my old folders.
19:56:10 <esolangs> [[Witsaff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163262&oldid=163261 * Corbin * (+3861) All of the syntax in my notes. Examples are cribbed from partial descriptions of Zelda 3, Metroid 3, and Chrono Trigger which I drafted in 2023 and given here to public domain.
20:53:23 <esolangs> [[Fusion Tag]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163263&oldid=95386 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Implementations */ mini
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21:19:25 <esolangs> [[Witsaff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163264&oldid=163262 * Corbin * (+3824) Semantics. This is transposed from how I originally imagined it but I don't think it matters. I need to double-check some stuff before I finish this section, but it's mostly done.
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21:21:13 <esolangs> [[Fusion Tag]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163265&oldid=163263 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Implementations */ oops
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22:40:35 <b_jonas> wait, C23 gained the machine fixed integer types of arbitrary fixed number of bits width (not necessarily a whole number of bytes) from zig? I hadn't heard of this until today
22:40:43 <b_jonas> that's from zig, isn't it?
22:41:40 <zzo38> I don't know if it is; I thought it was LLVM
22:42:12 <b_jonas> the docs at https://gcc.gnu.org/projects/c-status.html#c23 say that it's supported by gcc 14
22:44:37 <fizzie> Yeah, although BITINT_MAXWIDTH ("maximum width of a bit-precise integer type") need only be "greater than or equal to the value of `ULLONG_WIDTH`", so they may not be especially wide.
22:44:54 <fizzie> GCC (at least on x86-64) makes it a lot higher, though.
22:45:05 <b_jonas> am I crazy if I think the best use of these is that now we kind of have a signed bool type? (as in, the true value is -1 if you cast it to a wider signed or unsigned type; though they don't behave like the bool type when casting *from* larger integer types to them)?
22:46:00 <fizzie> Rather lamely, they don't allow a signed _BitInt of width 1.
22:46:46 <int-e> https://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG14/www/docs/n2763.pdf primarily cites FPGAs, doesn't mention Zig at all
22:46:51 <fizzie> C23 6.7.3.1p4: "The value of /N/ for `unsigned _BitInt` shall be greater than or equal to 1. The value of /N/ for `_BitInt` shall be greater than or equal to 2."
22:46:56 <fizzie> I think it's a shame too.
22:50:44 <b_jonas> I care much more about C++ and rust than C, but Boost Endian only provides types whose width are the multiple of a byte, and Boost Multiprecision doesn't provide signed types without memory overhead, even though bit-precise should be implementible well enough in C++ without much language support
22:52:46 <b_jonas> as far as I can tell ziglang should have signed 1-byte integer. it doesn't explicitly mention this, but it does say arbitrary bit-width signed and unsigned, and mentions u1 in examples a few times
22:55:21 <b_jonas> I'm generally *against* notionally packing multiple small integers together into a struct or bit-granular array with language support, so I don't really want to use these for that, but I would like signed and unsigned bool types ephemeral in computations. we do kind of have them in C and C++ already, because I can write -(a<b) to get a signed int with value 0 or -1 in either (though the underlying type
22:57:11 <b_jonas> I should look at what else C23 adds
23:01:01 <fizzie> There's quite a few things; it's definitely a lot bigger change than C18 was.
23:01:03 <b_jonas> by the way, I wish the C++ standard added a standard type alias template for std::complex so that you can refer to it by a name that doesn't clash with the C keyword
23:01:39 <b_jonas> using the word complex for both is so stupid
23:02:19 <b_jonas> I don't think there's such a thing as C18. there's C17, which is basically the same as C11, similar to C90 vs C89
23:02:34 <b_jonas> I'll assume that was a typo
23:02:49 <fizzie> The official name includes 2018.
23:03:02 <fizzie> But I agree it's much more commonly, and somewhat officially, called C17.
23:04:03 <fizzie> C23 likewise became ISO/IEC 9899:2024.
23:07:01 <fizzie> One C23 feature, which probably won't even be particularly useful in practice but which I've wished to become a thing for long, is that you can now put storage class specifiers in compound literals, and specifically do something like `&(static const struct whatever){1, 2, 3}` to get an address of an unnamed object of static storage duration even inside a function.
23:45:34 <zzo38> I mostly still use gnu89, although I sometimes use gnu99 in case I use declarations of variables in the heading of a for loop in the definition of a macro. I do not have a compiler that supports the #embed command, although I might use that too if I did have it (although avoiding it also has the advantage that it can work even if you do not have the newest version of the C compiler)
23:46:32 <zzo38> I think I read somewhere that C23 (or was it a different version?) that specifies explicitly that if an initialization specifies {} with nothing in between then it will be zero, because older versions don't even though some C compilers will do that anyways. I and other people did not know that it does not already mean that.
23:47:16 <zzo38> They say that you will have to write {0} instead, but that isn't very good if the type is zero length array or something else that you cannot have the first item which is zero, so {} would be better
23:52:15 <fizzie> C23 does explicitly allow `{}` as a universal zero initializer, yes. Though `{0}` is also valid for any type in standard C; zero-length arrays are a nonstandard extension, and (because you're allowed to omit braces when initializing nested struct/union/array types, and 0 is a valid initializer for both arithmetic and pointer types) there's no type that wouldn't allow 0 as the first item in an
23:52:28 <fizzie> Versions before C23 didn't allow `{}` as a matter of syntax.