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01:27:36 <int-e> > sum [a | a <- [0..99], b <- [sum [0..a-1]..a-1], c <- [0..b-1]] -- becomes Σ[Σ[∞≤z<∞]∞≤a<∞]Σ[Σ[Σ[∞≤z<∞]∞≤x<a]x≤b<a]Σ[Σ[∞≤z<∞]∞≤c<c]a of length 57. Much better than 233.
01:30:58 <int-e> Err, that c<c should be c<b.
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02:53:22 <korvo> 1:12 on Super Metroid any%. Successfully skipping Grapple Beam now. Hardlocked the console twice in as many nights; no idea how it happened either time. Died to Phantoon once.
03:31:04 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * LynChern * New user account
04:28:43 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179189&oldid=179167 * LynChern * (+176) /* Introductions */
04:41:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179190 * LynChern * (+0) Created blank page
04:44:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179191&oldid=179190 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+120)
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05:19:38 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179192&oldid=179191 * LynChern * (+232)
05:22:00 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179193&oldid=179192 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+247) /* Regular Messages */
05:22:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179194&oldid=179193 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+1) /* Regular Messages */
05:22:56 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179195&oldid=179194 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+200) /* Regular Messages */
05:23:50 <esolangs> [[User talk:Dragoneater67]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179196&oldid=178619 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+140) /* new esolang i made */
05:25:02 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179197&oldid=179186 * Aadenboy * (-15) eradicate h1
05:25:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179198&oldid=179195 * LynChern * (+32) /* Regular Messages */
05:25:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179199&oldid=179198 * LynChern * (+84)
05:29:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179200&oldid=179199 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+156) /* Regular Messages */
05:32:18 <esolangs> [[User:Dragoneater67]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179201&oldid=179115 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+7) /* oranges oranges oranges */ why are oranges orange
05:38:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179202&oldid=179200 * LynChern * (-2) /* Notes */
05:41:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179203&oldid=179202 * LynChern * (+25) /* Test1 */ new section
05:45:15 <esolangs> [[Mhm!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179204&oldid=179048 * Aadenboy * (+679) /* Examples */ add multiplication example
05:51:36 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179205&oldid=179203 * LynChern * (-63) /* Notes */
05:54:44 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179206&oldid=179205 * LynChern * (-8)
05:55:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179207&oldid=179206 * LynChern * (+103) /* Test2 */ new section
05:56:17 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179208&oldid=179207 * LynChern * (-103)
05:58:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179209&oldid=179208 * LynChern * (-18)
06:02:18 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179210&oldid=179209 * LynChern * (-1)
06:03:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179211&oldid=179210 * LynChern * (+130) /* How to show the directory */ new section
06:04:08 <esolangs> [[Z++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179212&oldid=124708 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+9) +{{stub}} (no. specification whatsoever
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06:16:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179213&oldid=179211 * LynChern * (-130)
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06:26:15 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179214&oldid=178955 * Ultraslayyy * (+12) Added reference to the Penis language
06:29:24 <esolangs> [[Penis]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179215&oldid=179168 * Ultraslayyy * (+9)
06:49:44 <esolangs> [[User:LynChern/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179216 * LynChern * (+12) Created page with ""
06:53:28 <esolangs> [[User:LynChern/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179217&oldid=179216 * LynChern * (+9177)
06:55:09 <esolangs> [[User:LynChern/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179218&oldid=179217 * LynChern * (-518)
07:04:04 <esolangs> [[User talk:Timm]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179219 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+365) Created page with "Hey, just wanted to intervene I guess, and say that your articles are very underspecified! I'd be nice you could read some articles(like [[Underload]] for example, or [[Subleq]]), to see the amount of specification you need to describe your language. --
07:06:59 <esolangs> [[User talk:Timm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179220&oldid=179219 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+55)
07:10:16 <esolangs> [[Kiosk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179221&oldid=175882 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+28) /* Commands */
07:10:56 <esolangs> [[Kiosk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179222&oldid=179221 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+15) /* Commands */
07:15:50 <esolangs> [[Kiosk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179223&oldid=179222 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+41) /* Commands */
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08:09:39 <esolangs> [[DJ logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179224&oldid=159324 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+31)
08:09:53 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Yayimhere2(school) * moved [[DJ logic]] to [[User:Yayimhere/DJ logic]]
08:10:05 <esolangs> [[DJ logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179227&oldid=179226 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-37) Blanked the page
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09:37:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:LynChern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179228&oldid=179213 * DGCK81LNN * (+100) /* Regular Messages */
09:42:56 <esolangs> [[User:LynChern/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179229&oldid=179218 * LynChern * (+642) /* */
11:02:46 <esolangs> [[User:LynChern/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179230&oldid=179229 * LynChern * (+2) /* */
11:03:07 <esolangs> [[User:LynChern/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179231&oldid=179230 * LynChern * (+7) /* */
11:03:29 <esolangs> [[User:LynChern/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179232&oldid=179231 * LynChern * (-17) /* */
11:04:00 <esolangs> [[User:LynChern/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179233&oldid=179232 * LynChern * (+42) /* */
11:04:20 <esolangs> [[User:LynChern/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179234&oldid=179233 * LynChern * (+1) /* */
11:08:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:Septem Lingua]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179235&oldid=179159 * Qazwsxplm * (+170) /* Request dev */ new section
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11:11:43 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179236&oldid=179148 * Qazwsxplm * (+503) /* Sandbox */
11:12:03 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179237&oldid=179236 * Qazwsxplm * (-503) /* Sandbox */
11:14:01 <esolangs> [[User:LynChern/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179238&oldid=179234 * LynChern * (+29)
11:15:56 <esolangs> [[User:LynChern/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179239&oldid=179238 * LynChern * (-32) /* */
11:53:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179240&oldid=179237 * Qazwsxplm * (+844) /* Sandbox */
11:53:40 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179241&oldid=179240 * Qazwsxplm * (-844)
11:57:14 <esolangs> [[Septem Lingua]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179242&oldid=179060 * PrySigneToFry * (+0)
12:15:37 <esolangs> [[Talk:Whitespace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179243&oldid=144349 * 5anz * (+400) /* What's "Slide n items off the stack, keeping the top item (v0.3)" */
12:17:52 <esolangs> [[User:OfficialWatchOS7Alt]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179244&oldid=178879 * OfficialWatchOS7Alt * (+22)
12:19:06 <esolangs> [[Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179245&oldid=178020 * OfficialWatchOS7Alt * (+63) /* Criticisms */
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12:22:05 <esolangs> [[Thue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179246&oldid=179245 * Dragoneater67mobile * (-63) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/179245|179245]] by [[Special:Contributions/OfficialWatchOS7Alt|OfficialWatchOS7Alt]] ([[User talk:OfficialWatchOS7Alt|talk]]) -- not a valid criticizm since it targets the wiki, not the language itself
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15:26:16 <Yayimhere> wow, thattsa lot of people at once
15:29:45 <korvo> It's just a netsplit.
15:30:07 <korvo> Nicer clients can hide some of that. I only see half a dozen notices.
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15:48:27 <b_jonas> so I was looking at the documentation RISC-V RV64 instruction set, and it has a few interesting features that I'd like to mention.
15:49:45 <b_jonas> so this is a 64-bit instruction set, like x86_64, which means that memory addresses and general purpose registers (which hold scalar integers) are 64 bit wide. but you still want to be able to handle 32-bit arithmetic in such an instruction set. I thought there were two ways to do that, but RISC-V does a third way that I hadn't ever considered.
15:52:26 <b_jonas> So one thing you can do is to use the 64-bit operations for add/subtract, left shift, and possibly even low multiplication, and just ignore what goes in the high bits. But this means you have to mask the high bits off before you do a comparison or right shift.
15:52:28 <esolangs> [[Mhm!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179247&oldid=179204 * Aadenboy * (+67)
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15:54:30 <b_jonas> What x86_64 does is to provide 32-bit arithmetic operations too, and these zero-extend their results in the destination registers. This is slightly better, because the automatic zeroing means that you don't have to do anything extra to use the results as 32-bit unsigned array indexes, or to do unsigned comparisons on them, but it means you need signed comparison and arithmetic right shift instructions
15:54:36 <b_jonas> in 32-bit versions separate from the 64-bit ones. Which x86_64 does provide.
15:56:27 <b_jonas> Another thing to do, which is what MMIX recommends for some cases, is to store the 32-bit values in the *top* half of your 64-bit registers, with zeros in the bottom. This means you can use 64-bit add/subtract, left shift, unsigned compare and signed comparee instructions just fine. You always need an extra shift if you want to use such numbers as array indexes, but that's fine because you often want to
15:56:33 <b_jonas> shift an array index left anyway in other solutions.
15:57:59 <b_jonas> What RISC-V does is that it provides separate 32-bit add/subtract and shift instructions, but these *sign-extend* their result into the destination register. The big advantage of that is that you can now just use the 64-bit signed and unsigned compare instructions for 32-bit calculations too. And you can still use array indexes, only this time they're signed, which is sometimes better and sometimes
15:58:24 <b_jonas> Somehow I never considered the possibility of sign-extending by default, probably because I was so used to x86.
15:59:01 <b_jonas> The load instructions in RV64 come in 8/16/32/64 bit sizes and the first three exist in both sign-extending and zero-extending versions by the way.
16:00:31 <b_jonas> These are a pretty new instruction sets, so of course they have much less historical compatibility baggage and more hindsight in design than x86 or even ARM, and I quite like the design reall.
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16:22:41 <esolangs> [[Mhm!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179248&oldid=179247 * Aadenboy * (+699) /* Examples */ implement division
16:24:58 <Yayimhere> aadenboy: its always pointer juggling with you init lol
16:25:25 <Yayimhere> I need to try and program im my own languages again
16:25:46 <Yayimhere> they're just strangely abstract and hard to program in
16:26:24 <aadenboy> all of my esolangs are usualy made because I find them "fun" in some way
16:27:34 <Yayimhere> I just dont know how to make anything in them
16:28:03 <korvo> "Don't go chasing waterfalls," as the song warned me when I was your age.
16:28:47 <korvo> Make some stuff in Python first. ECMAScript if you want harder difficulty or Scratch for an easier time.
16:29:27 <aadenboy> never really tried python significantly
16:30:16 <Yayimhere> i have many problems with python but I have nobody to teach me anything else and guides just are a hard time. I tried Haskell but only local variables seems kinda... eh?
16:30:54 <korvo> Lua is alright but will teach you some bad habits; it's hard to build up lots of interesting structure in Lua, and also the table is a treacherous and wrong data structure.
16:30:59 <b_jonas> Yayimhere: if you have more specific questions (eg. about python) you can try to ask here
16:31:19 <Yayimhere> true, I just dont want to bug y'all
16:31:31 <korvo> Haskell is fine. We should *always* have that local-variables-only property; it's called "lexical scoping" and it means that you only have to read part of a program to understand that part.
16:33:20 <Yayimhere> it just inhibits my usual style of programming. I like to keep data around in variables. though maybe thats a habit to unlearn
16:34:31 <Yayimhere> ent issuebut this is an issue for me to
16:51:19 <esolangs> [[Mhm!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179249&oldid=179248 * Aadenboy * (+251) /* Division */ redo algorithm
16:51:37 <aadenboy> accidental modulo calculator as well
16:52:13 <korvo> Yayimhere: GHC Haskell (and Hugs and others) have REPLs, so you can do REPL-oriented development. There's nothing wrong with keeping a REPL open.
16:53:01 <esolangs> [[Mhm!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179250&oldid=179249 * Aadenboy * (+3) /* Division */ you fool that is 5 not 6
16:57:20 <esolangs> [[Mhm!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179251&oldid=179250 * Aadenboy * (-36) /* Division */
16:57:57 <aadenboy> oh actually that isn't hard to implement here
16:58:47 <Yayimhere> what format are ya using for numbers btw?
17:01:22 <esolangs> [[Mhm!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179252&oldid=179251 * Aadenboy * (+142) /* Division */ mod
17:01:41 <aadenboy> I'm finding padding with unusable cells is a good strategy
17:02:15 <aadenboy> and doesn't destroy the data itself thankfully
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17:23:38 <esolangs> [[Mathlang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179253&oldid=179029 * Esolang lover123 * (+62) stupid stuff
17:28:25 <esolangs> [[Mathlang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179254&oldid=179253 * Esolang lover123 * (-23)
17:33:46 <esolangs> [[False machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179255 * Esolang lover123 * (+270) Created page with "==What is a false machine?== A false machine is a program that was created by ??? it is simply a truth machine reversed. ===pseudo/fake code=== Input A If(A=0) { print (0) halt} else {Forever(print (1))} ==Implementations== [[Mathlang]] T T<1(2<3(
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17:37:05 <esolangs> [[Ink]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179256&oldid=178429 * Esolang lover123 * (+74) pink
17:40:44 <esolangs> [[Mathlang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179257&oldid=179254 * Esolang lover123 * (-61) what was i thinking?
17:43:26 <esolangs> [[Mathlang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179258&oldid=179257 * Esolang lover123 * (+19) please fix the ascii issue
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17:56:33 <ais523> korvo: I've never really liked REPLs because what I want to do is to gradually build up a program that I can use multiple times, with different data each time
17:57:16 <ais523> what I really want to do is experiment with program fragments that could go into an existing program, and when I find one, make it a permanent part of the program (then move onto the next part)
17:58:01 <ais523> so I think my preferred environment would be some sort of editor-like thing with panes/splits for the program, input, and output, and where the program mostly ran from start to end
17:58:14 <ais523> and where you could delete bits of the end of the program to rewind to before they were executed
17:58:27 <ais523> this is quite REPL-like in many ways but has a fundamentally different execution model
18:00:19 <b_jonas> ais523: yeah, I mostly just use two to four different terminals for this. in one I'm editing the program, in one I'm running the program, possibly if the program is slower running then I'll be examining the output in one while running it in another, possibly in one I'm reading manuals though these days those are more often in a browser.
18:00:27 <ais523> (you would also be able to replace the input data to run it on different data)
18:00:46 <ais523> b_jonas: my current workaround is basically this but without the caching
18:00:56 <ais523> so the program runs from the start every time
18:01:33 <ais523> it's both slow and inefficient
18:02:13 <b_jonas> yeah, that depends on what program
18:03:14 <ais523> often I'm dealing with a lot of data, of the order of magnitude where it takes tens of minutes or a few hours for a single computer to process it
18:03:37 <ais523> although that may be partly because I'm normally using Perl for this sort of thing, which is a particularly slow language
18:04:26 <ais523> one project I want to do is to do this sort of cached-program-execution model in a new language which is comparable to Perl 4 in feature set but without the edge cases that make it hard to implement efficiently (and possibly statically typed with type inference)
18:05:17 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mathlang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179259 * Esolang lover123 * (+230) added talk page
18:05:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mathlang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179260&oldid=179259 * Esolang lover123 * (+0) period
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18:15:09 <fizzie> That's a _little_ bit in the direction of "interactive notebooks" of the Jupyter mold, though there's no close analogue of an (efficient) rewind.
18:15:25 <fizzie> But they do generally have a "run from the beginning up to this cell" shortcut.
18:16:49 <b_jonas> I handled this mostly manually in my previous jobs. Split out the slow parts, cache their results, rerun manually only when needed.
18:16:50 <fizzie> I guess in practice you could occasionally re-run a smaller subset of the program to effectively rewind but without executing earlier (possibly more costly) steps.
18:18:02 <ais523> fizzie: Jupyter is something I had in mind as inspiration, but I don't think it's the same
18:19:20 <fizzie> I have used (Google) Colab (which is a Jupyter-based thing) for some ad-hoc data visualizations, a little bit like that, with a slow "pull data from various sources into a Pandas dataframe" step, and then a tail end of further data mangling and graph-building that can be re-executed quickly enough.
18:19:21 <esolangs> [[Language List]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179261 * Hotcrystal0 * (+27) Redirected page to [[Language list]]
18:19:55 <fizzie> Though it's entirely the user's responsibility to make sure the pristine copy of the collected data doesn't get lost.
18:21:15 <ais523> I feel like this is a gap in the programming language market
18:21:31 <ais523> (and resent that I'm not really able to dedicate enough concentration to implement it in a reasonable length of time)
18:24:40 <b_jonas> excuse me but doesn't Excel do this? recalculate only the cells whose dependencies change?
18:25:17 <ais523> yes – that's also a model I had in mind
18:25:58 <korvo> ais523: I coded up about half of a Cammy environment which allows composing and decomposing expressions with visual graphs. It's type-aware and can preview types corresponding to images and videos, so it's possible to incrementally assemble an image from small pieces.
18:26:05 <ais523> I guess functional reactive programming is the best direction to look in, possibly?
18:26:21 <korvo> It sucks, but that's mostly an issue of not having a strong-enough data model and a holistic environment with lots of standard-library code already written.
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18:27:28 <b_jonas> I don't feel like I really need this. I can just separate stuff out by hand, and either re-run slow parts by hand, or at least automate by hand re-running the slow parts only if their inputs have changed.
18:27:43 <ais523> anyway, I hate to leave mid-conversation but I'll be busy for an hour and a half or so
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18:28:08 <fizzie> There's apparently a spin-off of the Python notebook genre called marimo which, according to documentation, is based on (automatically) building a dependency DAG between the notebook cells, and (by default) auto-rerunning everything "downstream" when you change one cell: https://docs.marimo.io/guides/reactivity/
18:28:24 <fizzie> But it doesn't claim to track mutation, you're just recommended to avoid it.
18:28:52 <fizzie> A more functional language could be a more natural fit for that sort of thing.
18:44:08 <esolangs> [[Mathlang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179262&oldid=179258 * Esolang lover123 * (+266) and %
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19:18:06 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * PartyWumpus * New user account
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19:58:22 <esolangs> [[StrML]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179263 * SirBrahms * (+4274) Create Page
20:00:44 <esolangs> [[StrML]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179264&oldid=179263 * SirBrahms * (+40) Categorise
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20:01:50 <esolangs> [[StrML]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179265&oldid=179264 * SirBrahms * (+0) Categorise correctly this time
20:02:35 <esolangs> [[StrML]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179266&oldid=179265 * SirBrahms * (+27) Add unimplemented category
20:05:10 <esolangs> [[User:SirBrahms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179267&oldid=179093 * SirBrahms * (+34) Add StrML to user page
20:18:25 <ais523> I find that what I'm often doing is creating dictionaries and then iterating over them
20:19:00 <ais523> this sort of thing is easy to express in imperative languages and a bit harder to do functionally
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22:06:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179268&oldid=177600 * Int-e * (+1219) /* Golfing the addition function */ new section
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