00:00:04 <salpynx> re. ssll, I think some creators of 'good' languages felt slighted that their jokes were not being acknowledged? I think some of the most interesting language are doign something 'funny', but legitimately interesting too
00:01:28 <korvo> It's a spectrum. Even on the most serious end, proglangs usually have silly punny names; the popular languages are e.g. Python, C, Java, C♯, which have interesting stories behind them. I generally hold off on documenting/implementing a language until I have a good name.
00:02:34 <korvo> Okay, it's speedrunning time. Have a good night, y'all.
00:03:12 <ais523> salpynx: there's a genuine field of study of esolangs as art – this isn't the way I primarily view them but some people do
00:03:23 <ais523> (but it's different from studying esolang *specifications* as art)
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00:10:47 <salpynx> having a clear ontology of concepts would help, I feel like I've only just understood that some users are really only interested in creating specifications, whereas I'd been linking the specs and language because I'm not sure how to unlink them. Computation model and language also gets tricky, TWM and Minsky machines come to mind as difficult to pigeon hole
00:12:38 <ais523> IMO there's a clear distinction between a specification (which exists as a method of communication, to convey your notion of how a language works to other people), and something that is designed to resemble a specification but isn't linked to a language (which exists basically because language specifications can be an art form but the language actually existing isn't necessarily an essential part of the art)
00:17:15 <salpynx> right, so it's something taking the _form_ of a language specification, without necessary functioning as one, or that being the primary purpose
00:23:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182005&oldid=182004 * Hotcrystal0 * (+398)
00:32:05 <salpynx> I don't quite get that last comment on the page then, creating languages from scratch _is_ allowed. Seems likre there's some confusion about what we are talking about. Creating the page before the language exists at any level is the problem
00:33:29 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182006&oldid=181873 * Tommyaweosme * (+0)
00:33:33 <salpynx> maybe there is a legitimate confustion about what a language is? Maybe there's a view that all you need is a name, then a 'spec'. The name is enough to create a page, then the spec is jsut what gets written on the page?
00:34:28 <salpynx> too many typos sorry, I need to go get food to focus!
00:35:46 <salpynx> esolangs should be educational too, if there's a way to communicate some of this better, we'd all likely benefit
00:39:19 <ais523> one reason I don't like the user-edited languages is that they typically don't have any sort of plan to create a command set that could be used for programming with
00:40:08 <ais523> when I create a language based on a set of commands, I am typically looking for a set that's sufficient to accomplish the goal I had for the language but without anything that's unnecessary towards that goal
00:50:30 <b_jonas> ok, devil's advocate. the page for efghij specifically claims that users can define additions. would you want to delete that page?
00:51:24 <ais523> b_jonas: no because it's already a usable language
00:51:54 <ais523> the reason to delete user-edited pages is because they don't tend to lead to usable languages, if something already is a usable language that reason doesn't apply
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01:32:20 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182007&oldid=182005 * Tommyaweosme * (+215) /* How would "esolanging" work after this? */
01:49:12 <esolangs> [[Infinite commands???]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182008&oldid=173585 * Tommyaweosme * (+12) /* Interpreter */
02:01:06 <esolangs> [[Windy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182009&oldid=180650 * Sisobus * (+35) change github repo path
02:10:49 <salpynx> focusing back on behaviour rather than content: would restricting new user accounts to 5 edits a day (use them wisely!), then unlimited after some period of time solve all the practical problems at a system level?
02:11:02 <salpynx> I'd hate to resonisbile for some rigid rule that deleted efghij because I can't communicate clearly. The community has a bunch of unwritten rules that we've all broken with a wink and a nod. To clarify them has me worrying about ontologies and definitions, and zen-like "the page is a finger pointing at the moon, not the moon" koans, when ppl who likely need this level of specific guidance don't care.
02:13:45 <ais523> I'm not sure an edits/day restriction would have the intended effect, except to make reviewing pages easier
02:16:00 <salpynx> it'd reduce the sustained adrenaline rush or whatever fuels the excitement of an endless blank canvas of a permissive fully open wiki, and enforce more thoughtful edits since they are a limited resource
02:20:23 <salpynx> break the payoff and engagement loop, by altering the game design and reward more thoughtful play styles
02:22:30 <salpynx> "make reviewing pages easier" is a pretty decent goal, and there were 'broken windows' complaints brought up on IRC and the recent talk page where Randomm page and recent edits can look like 100% low quality. A slowdown would allow other content to shine through
02:22:45 <salpynx> ... just a though, slightly outside the box
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02:51:48 <b_jonas> I don't think limiting edits per day would help much, unless it's extreme, like no edits at all other than the Intro page until your account is two months old
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03:19:52 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182010&oldid=182007 * Salpynx * (+1612) /* Collaborative languages */ simple requirement: main subject space pages be 'articles' about the named topic
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04:03:57 <esolangs> [[Monte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182011&oldid=174165 * Corbin * (+402) Explain the name pun.
04:05:05 <esolangs> [[Monte]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182012&oldid=182011 * Corbin * (+32) Add section for references.
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06:03:35 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182013&oldid=182010 * Olus2000 * (+526) /* Pages that are themselves art */ deleting is fine, rewriting is effort
06:11:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CTFFuck2 Developer * New user account
06:14:42 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182014&oldid=181957 * CTFFuck2 Developer * (+138) /* Introductions */
06:16:14 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182015&oldid=182014 * CTFFuck2 Developer * (+113) /* Introductions */
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07:05:11 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182016&oldid=182015 * CTFFuck2 Developer * (+0) /* Introductions */
07:12:04 <esolangs> [[CTFFuck2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=182017 * CTFFuck2 Developer * (+770) Created page with "CTFFuck2 is a circular-buffer and linear-memory-based language. ==Syntax== CTFFuck2 interpreter will automatically skip any non-decimal characters, which means you can simply write as many comments as you want(Though we suggest that you should format it firs
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07:54:09 <esolangs> [[CTFFuck2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182018&oldid=182017 * CTFFuck2 Developer * (+171) /* Syntax */
08:05:12 <esolangs> [[CTFFuck2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182019&oldid=182018 * CTFFuck2 Developer * (+1198) /* Syntax */
08:36:25 <esolangs> [[DODO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182020&oldid=182001 * QuantumV * (+0) /* Var Ops */
08:37:02 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Doeimos * New user account
08:42:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182021&oldid=182016 * Doeimos * (+163)
08:44:17 <esolangs> [[DODO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182022&oldid=182020 * Doeimos * (+3) quantum you forgot to fix this one lalala
09:27:04 <esolangs> [[DODO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182023&oldid=182022 * QuantumV * (+24)
09:46:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Vikyhugo * New user account
10:14:21 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182024&oldid=182021 * Vikyhugo * (+173) Introduction
10:15:21 <esolangs> [[BitBitJump]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182025&oldid=176237 * Vikyhugo * (+9) Changed Oleg Mazonka's page deadlink to wayback link
10:53:57 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182026&oldid=182013 * Hotcrystal0 * (+535) /* The big problem */ new section
10:54:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182027&oldid=182026 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
11:18:46 <esolangs> [[Ako's Simple Coding Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182028&oldid=178523 * Bandori * (-320)
11:37:11 <esolangs> [[User:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182029&oldid=181871 * Miui * (-372) /* "esolangs" */
11:39:42 <esolangs> [[Talk:Important lesbian virtual machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182030&oldid=181949 * Miui * (+92) /* import as from lang */
11:39:59 <esolangs> [[Talk:Important lesbian virtual machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182031&oldid=182030 * Miui * (+78) /* import as from lang */
11:44:03 <esolangs> [[Oragami]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182032&oldid=181514 * Miui * (+37) /* Computational Class */
11:44:22 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * FrostCube * New user account
11:51:13 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182033&oldid=182024 * FrostCube * (+176)
12:02:39 <esolangs> [[User:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182034&oldid=182029 * Miui * (-64)
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13:36:54 <esolangs> [[User:Xyzzy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182035&oldid=146188 * Xyzzy * (-100)
13:49:31 <esolangs> [[DODO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182036&oldid=182023 * QuantumV * (+52) forgot len
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14:45:26 <esolangs> [[DODO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182037&oldid=182036 * QuantumV * (+145) /* Instructions */
14:45:42 <esolangs> [[DODO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182038&oldid=182037 * QuantumV * (+13) /* Instructions */
14:45:53 <esolangs> [[DODO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182039&oldid=182038 * QuantumV * (-1) /* Instructions */
14:49:01 <esolangs> [[DODO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182040&oldid=182039 * QuantumV * (+542) /* Examples */
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14:55:31 <esolangs> [[Talk:Important lesbian virtual machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182041&oldid=182031 * Ais523 * (-8) do not forge other users' signatures
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14:56:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182042&oldid=181631 * Ais523 * (+211) /* Warnings */ do not forge other users' signatures
14:56:44 <Guest19> oh i was gonna report that but i guess ais523 is faster
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15:17:58 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/issue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182043&oldid=170369 * Aadenboy * (+485) add category page creation
15:23:58 <esolangs> [[Mhm!/Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182044&oldid=180701 * Aadenboy * (+1735) add visualization of the tree
15:33:41 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182045&oldid=180706 * Aadenboy * (-23)
16:00:26 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182046&oldid=182027 * Corbin * (+753) /* The big problem */
16:04:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182047&oldid=182042 * Miui * (+330) /* My Opinion */ new section
16:06:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:Miui]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182048&oldid=182047 * Miui * (+1) /* My Opinion */
16:10:26 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182049&oldid=182046 * Miui * (+114) /* Regarding any potential mass deletions */
16:10:46 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182050&oldid=182049 * Miui * (+70) /* Regarding any potential mass deletions */
16:13:49 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182051&oldid=182050 * Corbin * (+1706) /* How would "esolanging" work after this? */
16:17:12 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182052&oldid=182051 * Corbin * (+484) /* Regarding any potential mass deletions */
16:23:53 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182053&oldid=182052 * Miui * (+434) /* Regarding any potential mass deletions */
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17:16:38 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mecksbui * New user account
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17:56:16 <esolangs> [[Fading Shout]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=182054 * Ais523 * (+12800) new language
17:56:58 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182055&oldid=181808 * Ais523 * (+19) /* F */ +[[Fading Shout]]
17:57:32 <esolangs> [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182056&oldid=164992 * Ais523 * (+18) +[[Fading Shout]]
17:58:12 <esolangs> [[Feed the Chaos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182057&oldid=157803 * Ais523 * (+19) /* See also */ link to [[Fading Shout]] which was inspired by this language
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18:07:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182058&oldid=182048 * Miui * (+146) /* My Opinion */
18:14:16 <esolangs> [[User talk:Miui]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182059&oldid=182058 * Miui * (+297) /* Archimedean Memory Systems=(Archival Registrars) */
18:17:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182060&oldid=182059 * Miui * (+222) /* My Opinion */
18:17:38 <esolangs> [[Fading Shout]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182061&oldid=182054 * Ais523 * (+714) /* Relationship to Collatz functions */ give a brief summary of GF(2)[X] so that people don't have to try to figure it out from a somewhat technical pair of Wikipedia articles
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18:20:08 <esolangs> [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182062&oldid=182060 * Miui * (+115) /* 1 Joke per diem on sliding scale of user priviledge after assessment of moderation/administration tax */ new section
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18:32:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182063&oldid=182062 * Miui * (+167) /* My Opinion */
18:36:49 <esolangs> [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182064&oldid=182063 * Miui * (+221) /* Seealso */
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18:42:41 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182065&oldid=182053 * Blashyrkh * (-1140) /* Program examples (Category:Examples) */ I had no intent to advertise. I got the idea, Corbin
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18:49:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182066&oldid=182064 * Miui * (+138) /* 1 Joke per diem on sliding scale of user priviledge after assessment of moderation/administration tax */
18:57:32 <esolangs> [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182067&oldid=182066 * Miui * (+139) /* Todays's joke */
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19:26:22 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182068&oldid=180900 * CodePentuplets48 * (+578)
19:27:46 <esolangs> [[Unary/Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182069&oldid=181104 * CodePentuplets48 * (+16)
19:28:46 <esolangs> [[Unary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182070&oldid=170808 * CodePentuplets48 * (+48)
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19:34:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182071&oldid=181997 * CodePentuplets48 * (+90)
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20:48:06 <esolangs> [[Cyclical]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182073&oldid=181690 * Broxol * (+644)
20:48:28 <esolangs> [[Cyclical]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182074&oldid=182073 * Broxol * (+0) /* EXCEPTIONS */
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21:37:07 <esolangs> [[XXLogic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=182075 * CodePentuplets48 * (+1019) Created page with "'''XXLogic''' is a logic-based esolang I did because why not? {| class="wikitable" |+ Commands |- ! Instruction !! Meaning |- | A, N, X, R, O || AND, NOT, XOR, NOR, and OR gates (in that order) |- | S || Swaps the 2 wires coming into it. |- | I || Input |- | O
21:37:23 <esolangs> [[XXLogic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182076&oldid=182075 * CodePentuplets48 * (+18)
21:37:38 <esolangs> [[User talk:Salpynx]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182077&oldid=181488 * Salpynx * (+1964) thoughts on From; an LLM ate 70% of the verbiage of my micro-essay. (Original available on request)
21:43:51 <int-e> fungot: how far is 16 from infinity?
21:43:51 <fungot> int-e: but well, it sure hasn't been garbage collected yet.
21:47:53 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182078&oldid=182065 * Blashyrkh * (+293) /* The big problem */
21:54:28 <int-e> (I'm toying with what's effectively a sandbox mode in shapez 2 and there's an item that "produces an infinite amount of fluid" which I've now measured to produce 16 units [throughput of a fluid launcher, which is the most basic fluid interface after pipes; pipes don't have a throughput limit])
22:05:11 <esolangs> [[User:CodePentuplets48/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=182079 * CodePentuplets48 * (+749) Created page with "DO NOT CRITICIZE OR REMOVE ANY CONTENT FOUND HERE.<br><br> ''x''<br> '''x'''<br> '''''x'''''<br> ==x== ===x=== ====x==== =====x===== [[x]]<br> x <br> . <br><br> HELP THE X'S HAVE TAKEN OVER<br><br> existence.you failed to compile.<br> NO
22:12:37 <esolangs> [[Talk:A bliss-pit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182080&oldid=180961 * Miui * (+379) /* Seeking a worthwhile Hamiltonian StegFuck pixel-art motif to use as a progging portal */ new section
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22:16:44 <esolangs> [[User:CodePentuplets48/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182081&oldid=182079 * CodePentuplets48 * (+27)
22:25:02 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * True * New user account
22:41:18 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182082&oldid=182078 * Ais523 * (+1416) /* How would "esolanging" work after this? */ some thoughts
22:43:20 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182083&oldid=182082 * Ais523 * (+621) /* How would "esolanging" work after this? */ r to Corbin
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23:09:21 <esolangs> [[User:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182084&oldid=182072 * Miui * (+811) /* favorite esoquotes */
23:12:31 <ais523> topicality thing is leading to some interesting discussion, hopefully we can get a consensus eventually although I think maybe there are some viewpoints that will need to compromise with each other
23:12:50 <ais523> I posted a couple of esolangs recently – spent most of today proving https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fading_Shout TC
23:13:22 <ais523> I might need to give it a textual syntax at some point, it doesn't conceputally need one but it would be hard to write an interpreter otherwise
23:13:49 <ais523> I'm never quite sure what to do about syntaxes when it comes to entirely mathematical languages
23:14:14 <ais523> (i.e. that exist to be a mathematical object that is studied)
23:14:40 <ais523> they sort-of need a syntax so that you can write programs in them, write compilers into them, and write interpreters (all of which are useful for such languages) but in a sense the syntax doesn't really matter
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23:16:55 <aadenboy> reading through the article atm
23:17:10 <ais523> esolangs are a weird topic because different parts of it become important depending on what you're doing, for some languages a good syntax is critical, for others pretty much anything would work
23:18:14 <aadenboy> hah only being able to move to the right reminds me of [[Countable]]
23:18:49 <aadenboy> only one pointer though... can't move back
23:19:04 <ais523> the data structure is one that I don't think has a name yet, expressing it in terms of a tape was the easiest way to explain it
23:19:57 <ais523> data structures that work kind-of like that is what I've been studying because it's the hard part in trying to do anything with consistent Collatz / Feed the Chaos, the only data storage works like that but is more complicated, so I wanted to practice on a simple version
23:20:58 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Feed_the_Chaos
23:21:06 <salpynx> that's a language, not a proposed wiki guideline ;)
23:21:45 <ais523> for some context, a few people have been iterating over all mathematical problems, in order from simplest by some measure to most complex, to find the simplest one they can't solve
23:22:07 <ais523> and doing this with a few different measures tends to always come up with the same sort of problem, which is determining what happens to a Collatz function where all the multipliers are the same
23:23:24 <ais523> we know Collatz functions are TC if the multipliers can vary (even if the additive terms are the same), but having all the multipliers the same and varying the additive term isn't obviously TC, and that question seems important enough to encourage me to want to solve it (but difficult enough that I'm not sure I can)
23:25:09 <ais523> and the TCness proof for Fading Shout is bizarre, I don't think I've done one that looks like it before (in that it lets a lot of semi-uncontrolled tape changes happen and just focuses on identifying the few tape changes that contain important information, which it does primarily by looking at the tape location mod 63 and whether various numbers have an odd or even length when written in binary)
23:28:47 <Acid190> Tape? Like...tape spindles that fill the room 70 years ago?
23:28:58 <aadenboy> thought came up: would [[Arbitrary memory emulation]] be in-scope with the current draft?
23:29:29 <ais523> Acid190: when we talk about tape in esolangs we're normally talking about Turing-machine-style tapes, which are like an idealised version of magnetic tape storage
23:29:30 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
23:29:41 <ais523> they do much the same thing but are infinitely long
23:30:07 <ais523> aadenboy: it's a programming technique
23:30:12 <Acid190> Infinitely long tape, got it.
23:30:33 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182085&oldid=182083 * Hotcrystal0 * (+313)
23:30:43 <aadenboy> I wonder if there's a more proper name for it
23:30:46 <ais523> "Articles can be written here that contain information that is useful for understanding esoteric programming, or designing/analysing/programming in esoteric programming languages." – it's included generically but not called out as something that's specifically allowed
23:31:54 <esolangs> [[Arbitrary memory emulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182086&oldid=179596 * Ais523 * (+14) /* Notes */ change category to the more appropriate [[Category:Programming techniques]]
23:32:18 <Acid190> Unfortunately we have had to restrict certain expensive pages (diffs, old article versions) to logged-in users only, due to excessive amounts of automated traffic. Please ensure you have logged in and then try again.
23:32:32 <Acid190> Expensive amounts of automated traffic?
23:33:00 <ais523> yes – basically every website on the Internet is getting hammered with tens of requests per second as scraper bots try to load every page they can find a URL for
23:33:21 <ais523> this only started a couple of years ago, most people suspect it's related to AI
23:33:35 <Acid190> I'll admit, it was my first thought.
23:34:35 <Acid190> Not that they can't handle the throughput, but that they don't like scrapers. Which, no problem.
23:34:40 <ais523> so all the pages that can appear in lots of different variations (e.g. you can diff any two versions of a page against each other, so the number of possibilities is quadratic in the size of the page), especially if they're expensive for the server to calculate, are login-only now to stop the scrapers bringing the server down
23:35:03 <ais523> even with all the locks the wiki *still* struggles to stay up at times of high scraper activity
23:35:36 <aadenboy> it's been performing better recently
23:36:20 <ais523> the server admin says that it's OK most of the day but goes down once per day because more scrapers target it then for some reason
23:36:52 <ais523> (i.e. the person who runs the hardware, rather than me who just moderates)
23:36:52 <Acid190> Well, they're adaptive, doesn't make it right. Unsung heroes filling the virtual "genius".
23:37:04 <aadenboy> I mean generally across the recent week
23:37:19 <aadenboy> something about an additional filter, lemme see if I can find it
23:38:22 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182087&oldid=182085 * Salpynx * (+25) /* Collaborative languages */ minor wording fix in my post
23:38:39 <int-e> I beleive page history (but not diffs) used to be visible until very recently.
23:39:00 <aadenboy> https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2026-05.html#liq
23:39:47 <ais523> it crosses my mind that hiding history pages from scraperbots may make it much harder for them to find URLs to scrape, as most of them are only linked from history and contributinos
23:42:17 <esolangs> [[User:Broxol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182088&oldid=181682 * Broxol * (+18)
23:50:29 <fizzie> "Expensive" was perhaps not the best word to use in that message. It just meant expensive in the sense of relative CPU cost compared to other types of requests, not expensive in the sense of costing money to serve.
23:51:49 <aadenboy> fizzie: hah my mind turned to expensive mediawiki parser functions instead of either of those two (specifically this message)
23:52:16 <int-e> Hmm, I'm realizing I know next to nothing about the storage story of Mediawiki. (I probably don't want to know either. :P)
23:53:00 <aadenboy> int-e: that's the one thing I would rather stay a black box
23:53:30 <fizzie> Or that, yes. Basically, I just picked the ones which had a high $request_time in nginx logs.
23:54:44 <fizzie> Also I've just experimentally re-enabled the history listing (but not the individual old revisions or diffs).
23:54:59 <fizzie> The spike of traffic still happens like clockwork at 5pm local time, which is pretty bizarre.
23:56:26 <int-e> fizzie: thanks, I'm often using that to check who edited those pages. (of course I can log in as well, but it's extra effort)