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00:51:39 <esolangs> [[Slantfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187879&oldid=187776 * Cordership * (+4) /* Truth-machine */
00:52:52 <esolangs> [[Slantfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187880&oldid=187879 * Cordership * (+1) /* Looping counter */
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00:54:50 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187881&oldid=187841 * Cordership * (-5) /* Syntax */
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00:55:51 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187882&oldid=187881 * Cordership * (-5) /* Looping counter */
00:56:23 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187883&oldid=187882 * Cordership * (+3) /* Looping counter */
00:59:16 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187884&oldid=187883 * Cordership * (+140) /* Syntax */
00:59:40 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187885&oldid=187884 * Cordership * (-15) /* Looping counter */
01:03:13 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187886&oldid=187885 * Cordership * (+212) /* Syntax */
01:04:10 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187887&oldid=187886 * Cordership * (+15) /* Looping counter */
01:10:19 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187888&oldid=187887 * Cordership * (-204) /* Syntax */
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02:40:48 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187889&oldid=187888 * Cordership * (+83) /* Syntax */
02:42:04 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187890&oldid=187889 * Cordership * (+108) /* Factorials */
02:47:50 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187891&oldid=187890 * Cordership * (+3) /* Syntax */
04:05:05 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187892&oldid=187891 * Cordership * (+343) /* Examples */
04:05:37 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187893&oldid=187892 * Cordership * (+32) /* Syntax */
04:06:11 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187894&oldid=187893 * Cordership * (-24) /* A+B Problem */
04:26:53 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187895&oldid=187894 * Cordership * (-232) /* Factorials */
04:27:07 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187896&oldid=187895 * Cordership * (-5) /* Factorial version 2 */
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04:30:21 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187897&oldid=187896 * Cordership * (+46) /* Kolakoski sequence */
04:30:46 <esolangs> [[Esomath]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187898&oldid=187872 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+69) categorization, by the way we have the infobox proglang template if you were looking for an infobox
04:31:14 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187899&oldid=187897 * Cordership * (-14) /* Truth-machine */
04:33:15 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187900&oldid=185203 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+199) /* Polynomix */ One for each year) (----
04:34:04 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187901&oldid=187899 * Cordership * (-14) /* Check even/odd */
04:43:43 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187902&oldid=187901 * Cordership * (+5) /* Disan count */
04:47:40 <esolangs> [[Interpret Esolangs Online]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187903&oldid=187862 * None1 * (+11) /* Introduction */
04:49:43 <esolangs> [[Gofe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187904&oldid=185280 * None1 * (+132) /* Implementation */
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04:55:51 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187905&oldid=187902 * Cordership * (+196) /* Syntax */
04:57:21 <esolangs> [[Polynomix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187906&oldid=187817 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+634) /* 99 bottles of beer */ One for each year) (----
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05:21:23 <esolangs> [[Nilad]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=187907 * None1 * (+1248) Created page with "{{lang|a=User:None1|f=a derivative of [[Minsky Machine]] where commands take no arguments}} ==Name of the language== The name Nilad comes from the documentation of [[Brain-Flak]] where the word means "functions that take 0 arguments". ==Memory== There are three unbounded ac
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08:21:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ACanOfDrPepper * New user account
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09:11:31 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187908&oldid=187873 * None1 * (+12) /* N */
09:17:22 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187909&oldid=187856 * None1 * (+85) /* My Esolangs */
09:29:28 <esolangs> [[Meow/libs/math.meow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187910&oldid=169064 * None1 * (+0)
09:30:59 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187911&oldid=187909 * None1 * (+28) /* My Esolangs */
09:32:46 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187912&oldid=187911 * None1 * (-39) /* Meow */
09:33:58 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187913&oldid=187912 * None1 * (-142) /* Meow */
09:35:16 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187914&oldid=187913 * None1 * (+139) /* My Esolangs */
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10:41:13 <esolangs> [[Nilad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187915&oldid=187907 * None1 * (+413)
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13:34:39 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again Chapter IX]]": running a language description page through a translator and back just creates a duplicate page that is harder to read and doesn't help to document the language; content has been archived externally to this site
13:34:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Translated ZhongWen/None1 again3]]": running a language description page through a translator and back just creates a duplicate page that is harder to read and doesn't help to document the language; content has been archived externally to this site
13:35:14 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Translated ZhongWen/None1]]": running a language description page through a translator and back just creates a duplicate page that is harder to read and doesn't help to document the language; content has been archived externally to this site
13:35:14 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Talk:Translated ZhongWen/None1]]": Deleted together with the associated page with reason: running a language description page through a translator and back just creates a duplicate page that is harder to read and doesn't help to document the language; content has been archived externally to this site
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14:49:09 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187916&oldid=186340 * DGCK81LNN * (-86) /* Koishi runtime specific */
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15:46:21 <esolangs> [[Mhm!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187917&oldid=180713 * Aadenboy * (-14) /* Commands */
16:16:12 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187918&oldid=187562 * Bobby Jacobs * (+10) Maybe, we should call S' a converse starling, in accordance with the converse warbler.
16:17:41 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187919&oldid=187918 * Bobby Jacobs * (-22)
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16:31:03 <esolangs> [[SLet 8]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=187920 * I am islptng * (+23) Redirected page to [[Polynomix]]
16:31:24 <esolangs> [[SLet 6]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=187921 * I am islptng * (+24) Redirected page to [[SletScript]]
16:32:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187922&oldid=186566 * Bobby Jacobs * (+887) /* The bird S' */ new section
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19:19:00 <b_jonas> the poor wiki machine is suffering so much
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20:15:25 <b_jonas> oh hey, it changed from HTTP 502 to 504. that's progress.
20:20:07 <fizzie> Ugh. This time the usual 5pm "spike" has just kept going: https://zem.fi/tmp/traffic.png
20:20:17 <fizzie> Normally it starts at 5pm and ends at 8pm local time.
20:23:03 <fizzie> 99+% of requests get a fast 403 and yet it's still totally overloaded.
20:26:18 <fizzie> Might try adding a few more patterns to the logged-in-or-verified-only list, though I'm not sure how much it helps. I see a bunch of limit=250 / limit=500 / limit=1000 style URLs, which are probably expensive to generate.
20:26:52 <b_jonas> fizzie: what timezone is local time?
20:27:47 <fizzie> I don't remember if it was the same 5pm local time when we weren't in summertime, and I only keep those charts for 14 days.
20:49:23 <fizzie> So it seems. Sampled 5 requests just now, and they're from consumer-sounding networks of ISPs in Spain, DRC, Qatar, Argentina and Jordan, respectively.
20:55:59 <fizzie> One thing I'd like to explore is to have two distinct PHP worker pools (currently it's just one with 5 concurrent tasks) and route the logged-in/verified users into a different one, that way it might be able to still serve real people even when this sort of thing *gestures frustratedly around* is going on.
21:00:40 <fizzie> There's really not that many requests *not* getting a 403 right now, I do wonder what's keeping it so busy. There's probably some way of monitoring this from the PHP side as well.
21:11:27 <FreeFull> I hate that the web has turned into this
21:11:50 <esolangs> [[Cornucopia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187923&oldid=187093 * Hakerh400 * (+4137) Add more examples; add references to formal proofs
21:15:12 <fizzie> Well, either they stopped naturally, or the changes did something, since it does seem a little more responsive now.
21:15:21 <fizzie> Traffic peaked at 100 reqs/s though.
21:18:55 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cornucopia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187924&oldid=187128 * Hakerh400 * (+428)
21:19:54 <b_jonas> "DRC, Qatar, Argentia, Jordan" wow
21:20:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cornucopia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187925&oldid=187924 * Hakerh400 * (+123)
21:21:41 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cornucopia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187926&oldid=187925 * Hakerh400 * (-1)
21:23:08 <fizzie> Next five: UK, Pakistan, Brazil x3 (all three different ISPs though).
21:23:12 <fizzie> Such an international community.
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21:24:57 <FreeFull> How are you detecting them? Are they using the same user agent?
21:26:33 <korvo> fizzie: I forget; are there token buckets? I remember mentioning it but the conversation moved past it last time IIRC.
21:35:52 <fizzie> FreeFull: No, the user agents are presumably randomly generated plausible ones. And I'm not really *detecting* them. The rules that give them 403s is just "any expensive page without one of the two cookies", one being the MediaWiki session one and the other this new verification thing. Those example locations were just any old (non-cookie) requests, so it's not entirely impossible one of them may
21:35:56 <fizzie> Though honestly it's rather unlikely a real person would be looking at, say, Special:RecentChangesLinked for "Anti-Plushie language".
21:37:16 <fizzie> I don't have any explicit token-bucket style rate limiting set up, and I don't exactly know how the combination of web server and PHP execution mechanism deals with congestion.
21:37:36 <FreeFull> TIL about plushie completeness
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21:43:18 <korvo> I wish that we had some sort of art category for [[Plushie-complete]] and similar bullshit. I can appreciate it artistically, but references to it should not litter the (serious) languages.
21:43:51 <korvo> (Y'know, from that massive page, [[(serious) language list]].)
21:48:04 <korvo> fizzie: Makes sense. I don't remember how to do it offhand, but I'm pretty sure Linux and BSD both have a way to set up basic bounded queues, maybe with token buckets?, so that each /8 or /16 gets its own bucket. This might sound unhelpful, but if only big pages are being generated then this would end up preserving the few /8 and /16 which are well-behaved, kind of like reserved inodes for root.
21:49:49 <korvo> Being literally Google-brained, I'd imagine that at the Web-server level there's a way to (statistically?) detect expensive queries and give all of those the "Expensive Queries" bucket, regardless of source. So ordinary article views, which hopefully are cheap?, would go via a bigger "Cheap Queries" bucket.
21:52:28 <korvo> fizzie: Oh! "congestion" and "big pages" made me think of bufferbloat. Vampires, stairs, protected, etc. Recent Linux has improved a lot; if you have at least Linux 5.x, consider these sysctls: https://bpa.st/ZVVA
21:55:54 <korvo> I run these at home, in the cloud, pretty much everywhere I run NixOS. Wouldn't recommend something like this if I didn't already use it.
21:59:18 <korvo> FreeFull: Oh, in case you haven't admined MediaWiki before, Lucky 10000: MW is *not* a lightweight service. Its footprint is legendary. We are fortunate that the DB is fast and that there's only a few Web frontends; if we had lots of frontends then we'd have lots of DB traffic.
21:59:42 <FreeFull> I haven't admined mediawiki, but yeah, I heard some pages are quite heavy
22:00:05 <FreeFull> The other people who complain about load are those running git web frontends
22:00:15 <FreeFull> But this is definitely impacting everyone
22:00:26 <fizzie> I sort of suspect the bottleneck is between the web server and PHP (in terms of actual network bandwidth it's not that much traffic), but I guess I might as well.
22:00:49 <fizzie> I had to turn the HackEso Mercurial web frontend just plain off for similar reasons.
22:00:52 <FreeFull> All to do what, train another crappy LLM?
22:01:31 <fizzie> That's the general assumption I guess, hard to think of any other reason for all this.
22:03:54 <fizzie> Here's the charts after adding more pages to the login-or-verification-required list: https://zem.fi/tmp/traffic2.png
22:04:07 <fizzie> So they certainly haven't let up, pretty much the opposite (I guess due to more requests being fast 403s).
22:04:32 <fizzie> I wonder if an artificial delay on the 403 page would actually lower the incoming request rate then.
22:14:13 <korvo> Yesss. Give in to the daaahk siiide. *evil chuckle*
22:23:18 <FreeFull> I wonder what would happen if you just close the connection instead of serving anything
22:28:06 <korvo> Either a retry from the same IP, or retry from another IP, depending on spider configuration, up to some timeout which apparently is configured in fucking hours for these dorks.
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22:30:05 <korvo> BTW "dorking" is the technical term for making these sorts of autogenerated queries meant to probe deep into a website's data. Very funny coincidence, or good explainer for the origin of the name? You decide.
22:31:46 <korvo> Has anybody else, this entire time, had intrusive thoughts like "wow, I really hope I didn't acidentally configure a cronjob on the machine in the garage to curl esolangs wiki incessantly for hours at a time"?
22:39:34 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * NuclearPasta * New user account
22:40:33 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187927&oldid=183837 * Miui * (+103) /* Mathematics */
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22:42:28 <b_jonas> korvo: no, I'm more careful about that sort of thing this time and my scripts would give up after a bunch of failures. back when I was young I made a script to automatically explore in the web-based game, and left it running every day from an atjob, then a few years later I found that the new maintainers of the game have decided that using bots is not allowed and banned my user, but the script didn't
22:42:34 <b_jonas> have adequate safeguards to stop running so it was still trying to submit moves in the game every day
22:42:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=187928&oldid=187865 * NuclearPasta * (+188) /* Introductions */
22:43:51 <korvo> Oh wow, that much have been stressful. Those games really do invite a lot of abuse with their refresh-heavy schemes.
22:45:59 <b_jonas> to be clear the script didn't get me anything useful in the game. it explored the map in a spiral pattern with a ship, the map has an island on every point of a square grid, but islands that are unused just get deleted and a new random island regenerated in its place after a while so the exploration didn't even get me any useful information other than perhaps some player-controlled islands which weren't
22:46:05 <b_jonas> useful to me in the early game.
22:46:33 <b_jonas> what I learned from this is a bit of how to debug programs, and how HTTP works.
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