←2010-04-28 2010-04-29 2010-04-30→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:06:13 <AnMaster> night
00:06:35 <AnMaster> <uorygl> Huh, Wikipedia says that the Scandinavian cross symbolizes Christianity. <-- sounds familiar
00:06:53 <AnMaster> if you mean in the Swedish, Danish, Norwegian and Finnish flags?
00:07:36 <AnMaster> probably Icelandic too
00:07:40 <uorygl> Yep.
00:07:52 <AnMaster> uorygl, well, probably not vandalism
00:07:59 <AnMaster> ais523, ^
00:08:09 <ais523> hmm
00:10:11 <uorygl> I guess it seems most plausible that they all just copied Denmark.
00:10:29 <AnMaster> <coppro> http://www.theweathernetwork.com/fourteenday/caon0512?ref=qlink_st_14day <-- ais523 filters URLS
00:10:29 <uorygl> As for the origin of Denmark's flag, I guess it just fell from the sky or something.
00:10:31 <AnMaster> URLs*
00:10:32 <AnMaster> on irc
00:10:44 <coppro> oh
00:10:48 <coppro> how lame
00:10:58 <AnMaster> uorygl, the cross does iirc symbolise that thing
00:11:04 <AnMaster> coppro, you tell him
00:11:15 <coppro> ais523: how lame
00:11:23 <AnMaster> coppro, as a counter action I suggest filtering any urls he paste on irc
00:11:28 <AnMaster> I have already begun that
00:11:30 <ais523> AnMaster: "counter action"?
00:11:35 <ais523> is there some sort of ignore war going on here?
00:11:41 <coppro> apparently you filter URLs
00:11:50 <ais523> yes, because I rarely or never click on them anyway
00:11:55 <AnMaster> ais523, just url filtering wall
00:11:57 <AnMaster> war*
00:12:47 * uorygl checks his /ignores.
00:12:50 <ais523> I don't see why blocking parts of my comments is particularly helpful to you
00:13:09 <ais523> have my URLs become less valuable just because I don't read other people's?
00:13:10 <uorygl> I'm not dropping all messages containing the phrase "free will". This is unacceptable.
00:13:56 <ais523> definitely
00:13:59 <AnMaster> uorygl, XD
00:14:02 <oklopol> ais523: if you make it official that AnMaster can't communicate to you by giving you links, it's only fair he does that too
00:14:05 <ais523> just search-and-replace it to "slave labor"
00:14:21 <oklopol> because often it's nicer to give a link than to do a copypaste via brain
00:14:57 <uorygl> `echo free will
00:14:58 <HackEgo> free will
00:14:58 <AnMaster> oklopol, yes I might in future paste the html source with data uris for images in /msg to ais
00:15:00 <uorygl> `echo expensive will
00:15:01 <HackEgo> expensive will
00:15:05 <uorygl> Success.
00:15:09 <AnMaster> heh
00:15:45 <ais523> AnMaster: they'd have to be very small images
00:15:56 <AnMaster> ais523, oh? or a very long /msg
00:16:07 <ais523> AnMaster: IRC has a limit of 510 characters per line, you should know that
00:16:20 <AnMaster> ais523, yes but html could handle a line break in the middle, no?
00:16:34 <ais523> oh, I thought you meant just posting a single image
00:16:45 <AnMaster> data:blahblah
00:16:50 <AnMaster> blahblah
00:16:52 <AnMaster> like that
00:16:54 <AnMaster> should work
00:17:08 <ais523> well, you'd just get throttled by Freenode
00:17:27 <AnMaster> ais523, yes but my irc has built in rate limiting
00:17:33 <AnMaster> so it would just continue for a long time
00:17:40 <ais523> if someone was spamming me in /msg, I might ignore them for a while until it ended
00:17:56 <ais523> which would be a pity, because it means I'd miss half the conversation here; maybe I'd logread
00:18:25 <AnMaster> hah
00:18:32 <AnMaster> ais523, where the URLs would be anyway
00:18:36 <AnMaster> ais523, also see what oklopol said
00:18:40 <AnMaster> <oklopol> ais523: if you make it official that AnMaster can't communicate to you by giving you links, it's only fair he does that too
00:18:43 <AnMaster> that is true
00:18:46 <AnMaster> and now, night œ
00:18:48 <AnMaster> →*
00:18:58 <ais523> well, he couldn't communicate with me via links before, because I never clicked on them after all
00:20:05 <ais523> it's probably just fairer to make that explicit
00:53:34 <oklopol> yes, and in fact up to this point he's just ignored all your links silently, too
00:54:31 <oklopol> that's not true ofc, and anyway i just wanted to clarify what his reasons were
00:55:15 <oklopol> sevenfold
00:55:19 <oklopol> sevenfold glium
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01:44:21 <uorygl> So, I guess I'm going to make a processor.
01:44:44 <uorygl> Does anyone know of any good Verilog simulators?
01:44:49 <uorygl> If not, I'll just get Icarus.
01:50:24 <uorygl> I hope it works on the Mac.
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03:50:48 <oerjan> <uorygl> `translatefromto no en armktokhund <-- no such word in norwegian
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03:51:07 <oerjan> "arm" is arm though, and "hund" is dog
03:51:57 <oerjan> arm can also mean poor, that's a bit archaic.
03:54:47 <oerjan> <uorygl> Aww, "sletteloggen".
03:54:54 <oerjan> the deletion log
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03:57:28 <oerjan> <uorygl> Huh, Wikipedia says that the Scandinavian cross symbolizes Christianity. <-- for the flag? of course, what else would it be?
03:57:52 <oerjan> the danish and probably swedish flags go back to the middle age, the rest are patterned on them
03:59:35 <oerjan> in fact i recall reading claims that the danish flag is based on a crusade one.
03:59:52 <oerjan> i don't quite recall it being from a reliable source though
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04:01:54 <oerjan> heh there's a legend for it falling from heaven
04:06:03 <oerjan> the knights hospitaller (from the crusades) have a rather similar flag
04:06:47 <oerjan> "A theory brought forth by the Danish historian Adolf Ditlev Jørgensen in 1875 in his book "Danebroges Oprindelse" is that the Danish flag _is_ the banner of the Knights Hospitaller."
04:07:17 <oerjan> although the real gist you get from the danish flag article is "nobody knows"
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04:17:06 <pikhq> Adolf... What an unfortunate name nowadays.
04:17:22 <oerjan> yes
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04:17:46 <pikhq> Darn Hitler, killing off a name and a mustache style.
04:20:27 <Gregor> And all that other nasty stuff he did too, but come on, did he really have to kill Chaplin 'stache?
04:21:19 <oerjan> well look at the bright side, chaplin used the similarity for all it was worth
04:22:23 <pikhq> And his crimes against Esperanto.
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07:36:30 <uorygl> `translate Internet on Internet Internetissä.
07:36:31 <HackEgo> Internet Internet is the Internet.
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07:36:53 <uorygl> Well, that didn't really work.
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07:38:44 <uorygl> `translate keskellä
07:38:46 <HackEgo> in the middle
07:39:00 <uorygl> `translate keskellä yötä
07:39:01 <HackEgo> middle of the night
07:39:09 <uorygl> How efficient.
07:40:03 <uorygl> `translate Aurinko paistaa keskellä yötä.
07:40:05 <HackEgo> The sun is shining in the middle of the night.
07:41:04 <uorygl> `translate Aurinko paistaa taistelemaan.
07:41:06 <HackEgo> The sun shines to fight.
07:41:14 <uorygl> That's less efficient.
07:47:56 <uorygl> `translate Doug löytyi kivi, loisti
07:47:58 <HackEgo> Doug found the stone, shone
07:52:17 <uorygl> `translate Olen kivi. Kun puhutaan itse kautta Google Translate, olen usein kutsua itseäni kivi, koska jos minä itseäni rock, Google Translate voisi kääntää se "rock". "Rock" ei suomalainen sana "rock".
07:52:19 <HackEgo> &quot;Rock&quot; is a Finnish word &quot;rock&quot;.
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07:53:42 <fizzie> If you *want* to say "Doug found the stone, shone", a more grammatiik way would be "Doug löysi kiven, loisti."
07:54:20 <uorygl> I think I wanted to say "Doug found a rock that was shining".
07:54:25 <fizzie> But "Doug löytyi, kivi loisti" is perfectly well for "Doug was found, the stone shone".
07:54:31 <fizzie> "Doug löysi loistavan kiven", in that case.
07:54:53 <fizzie> Although "loistava" can be both "shiny" and... something like "wonderful".
07:55:01 <fizzie> Or maybe "brilliant" is closer.
07:55:11 <uorygl> I wonder why I was given "Doug löytyi kivi, loisti", then.
07:55:38 <uorygl> I guess Google Translate is stupid.
07:55:39 <fizzie> Your translation system might be... imperfect. Shock, horror.
07:56:11 <uorygl> So, I guess "kiven" is the accusative and "kivi" is the nominative?
07:56:59 <fizzie> Yes. Though "kiven" is also the genitive.
07:57:11 <fizzie> Not that rocks have that many possessions.
07:57:34 <uorygl> Do you put it before or after the thing possessed?
07:57:54 <fizzie> Before.
07:58:19 <uorygl> So would "kiven kivi loisti" mean "the rock's rock shone"?
07:58:40 <fizzie> Yes, that sounds correct, if a bit silly.
07:58:45 <fizzie> In the semantic sense, that is.
07:58:53 <uorygl> Well, I only know one noun. :)
07:59:38 <fizzie> For "Doug found a shiny stone" translate.google gives me "Doug löytyi kiiltävä kivi", which is closer. It's a bit like "Doug was found a shiny stone". It seems to have a problem understanding that Doug's the one doing the finding, not the one that is found.
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08:00:07 <fizzie> Of course it's a purely/mostly statistical translation thing, as far as I know.
08:00:15 <uorygl> How do you say "dog"? Maybe I'd like to talk about the dog's rock.
08:00:29 <fizzie> Koira.
08:00:34 <fizzie> Do dogs have rocks?
08:00:42 <uorygl> Only rarely.
08:00:50 <fizzie> I would have thought bones.
08:01:00 <uorygl> So, is it "koiran kivi"?
08:01:04 <fizzie> Yes.
08:01:53 <uorygl> Now it would be nice to get some verbs in.
08:02:30 <uorygl> What are "the dog lifts the rock", and "the dog lifts the bone"?
08:03:00 <fizzie> "Koira nostaa kiven", "koira nostaa luun" would be the ones I think of first.
08:04:37 <uorygl> What if I'm lifting the dog? Can I still use nostaa, or is it something else for a first-person person?
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08:05:38 <fizzie> It's "nostan". "Minä nostan, sinä nostat, hän nostaa; me nostamme, te nostatte, he nostavat"; I lift, you lift, he/she/it lifts; we lift, you (plural) lift, they lift.
08:06:20 <uorygl> Huh, the plurals are shorter than the singulars.
08:06:34 <uorygl> Minä nostan koiran.
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08:07:14 <uorygl> What if I give the bone to the dog?
08:08:05 <fizzie> "(Minä) annan koiralle luun", or "annan luun koiralle"; the word order is not so very critical there, I think, it's more about what do you want to emphasize, the dog or the bone.
08:08:27 <fizzie> The same difference as in "give the dog a bone", or "give a bone to the dog", I guess.
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08:09:29 <uorygl> And how about if the dog gives me the bone?
08:09:52 <uorygl> Koira annaa luun something?
08:10:10 <fizzie> "Koira antaa minulle luun", or "koira antaa luun minulle".
08:10:29 <fizzie> Annan, annat, antaa; annamme, annatte, antavat.
08:11:12 <uorygl> Huh.
08:11:26 <uorygl> What's the conjugation of nostaa?
08:11:36 <uorygl> Oh, you gave that.
08:11:54 <augur> heyo
08:11:55 <fizzie> Yes, though it lacks the more uncommon cases.
08:12:26 <uorygl> Okay, the conjugations look the same, except that the stem "ann" becomes "ant" in the third person.
08:12:43 <uorygl> Or maybe the stem is "an" and it just uses slightly different suffices.
08:12:44 <fizzie> "Nostaos" = "oh, please lift" according to Wikipedia translation. "Archaic and/or poetic." Haven't seen it much anywhere.
08:12:46 <uorygl> Suffixes.
08:13:10 <uorygl> "Oh, please lift" does sound rather archair and/or poetic. :)
08:13:47 <uorygl> I guess I shouldn't worry too much about conjugating verbs right.
08:14:26 <fizzie> "Nostakoon koira luun" = "let the dog lift the bone", in the imperative-command sense of 'let', not the permit-the-dog one.
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08:14:58 <fizzie> "Koira nostanee luun" = "the dog is likely to lift the bone".
08:15:12 <fizzie> Whoever designed this stuff went a bit overboard with the cases.
08:15:29 <uorygl> Indeed.
08:16:27 * uorygl ponders dogs, rocks, bones, shining, giving, and lifting for a moment.
08:17:12 <uorygl> Koira, kivi... the bone hasn't done anything yet, so I don't know its nominative. Is it luu?
08:17:18 <fizzie> Yes.
08:18:16 <fizzie> If something's made out of bone, though, it's "luuta"; "kivi on luuta" = "the rock is made out of bone". Unfortunately "luuta" is also the nominative of "broom".
08:18:34 <uorygl> Koira, kivi, luu, loisti, annaa, nostaa.
08:18:57 <uorygl> Does the sentence "kivi on luuta" contain a verb?
08:19:33 <fizzie> "on" is a verb.
08:19:54 <fizzie> Third-person singular indicative present form of "olla", "to be".
08:20:04 * uorygl nods.
08:20:26 <uorygl> So what's the conjugation of that?
08:21:05 <fizzie> Uh. Olen, olet, on; olemme, olette, ovat.
08:21:26 <uorygl> Minä olen koiran.
08:22:01 <fizzie> That would be something like "the dog owns me"; it's just "minä olen koira" if you want to be the dog.
08:22:25 <uorygl> Is that the nominative on "koira" there?
08:22:47 <fizzie> Yes, I guess.
08:23:36 <uorygl> So, how about "my head is made out of rock"?
08:24:05 <fizzie> "Pääni on tehty kivestä" if you want explicitly "made out of rock"; alternatively, "pääni on kiveä".
08:24:44 <uorygl> "Pääni" is "my head"?
08:24:54 <fizzie> Yes. "Pää" is the nominative there.
08:25:13 <uorygl> Then you just tack on "ni" to mean "my"?
08:26:17 <augur> http://i.imgur.com/rb7Xz.jpg
08:26:18 <fizzie> Yes, that would work for most things.
08:26:32 <fizzie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possessive_suffix#Finnish
08:26:49 <uorygl> Then how about...
08:27:05 <uorygl> Koiranni pää on luuta.
08:27:49 <fizzie> "Koirani", but otherwise that's correct for "my dog is a bone-head". Well, maybe not exactly the same meaning.
08:27:57 <fizzie> That would be "koirani on luupää".
08:28:34 <uorygl> You can concatenate nouns in this language, I see.
08:29:46 <uorygl> So, how about "the dog gets the bone"?
08:29:59 <fizzie> Kolmivaihekilowattituntimittari is one reasonably commonly trumped long-compound-word. (It's an electricity meter -- presumably measuring in kWh units -- for three-phase electrcity.)
08:30:17 <fizzie> "Koira saa luun."
08:30:47 <uorygl> "The dog eats the dog-food"?
08:30:58 <fizzie> "Koira syö koiranruokaa."
08:31:06 <fizzie> Also, I eat some lunch now, so not here for a while.
08:31:16 <fizzie> (Hopefully it won't be dog-food.)
08:31:27 <uorygl> I was just trying to figure out how to dismiss myself for food-eating purposes. :)
08:31:36 <fizzie> Good timing.
08:31:37 <uorygl> (I probably could have phrased that better.)
08:32:20 <uorygl> I want to say "Minä san ruokaa."
08:33:12 <uorygl> But anyway, it's 3 AM over here, so I should probably begin sleeping soon, eh?
08:33:40 <uorygl> Yötä.
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09:10:22 <fizzie> It's "minä saan", but nights, anyhow.
09:22:00 <Axtens> kya ho rha hai?
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13:05:27 <fizzie> Here's an amazon.com review for "Image Processing: Analysis and Machine Vision", third edition, a textbook on one of our courses:
13:05:27 <fizzie> "Fascinating and gripping.
13:05:27 <fizzie> Very few books make me laugh out loud. Even fewer make me weep. This fabulous book took me to both these extremes in the first chapter. Rarely is seen a talent as manifest as Sonika's achieved without losing the freshness and vibrance of a much younger author.
13:05:27 <fizzie> Sonika has shunned the jaded cynicism of many of his more mature contemporaries. Influences such as Gordon and Hhleghh are easy to spot, yet there also lies the deeper, warm tones of giants like Stewart or Brown.
13:05:29 <fizzie> Buy 'Image Processing, Analysis and Machine Vision' now, but finish whatever you're currently reading first. Anything after this will only disappoint you."
13:05:41 <fizzie> That's some serious praise for an image processing textbook.
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14:50:44 <fizzie> Misread an Amazon title recommendation as "Purely Fictional Data Structures". (Unsurprisingly, they were functional instead. I might have bought a book on fictional ones.)
14:58:57 <AnMaster> <uorygl> Does anyone know of any good Verilog simulators? <-- why not VHDL?
15:00:07 <AnMaster> <oerjan> <uorygl> `translatefromto no en armktokhund <-- no such word in norwegian <-- nor in Swedish, without the k it would have been several concatenated words (which is valid in Swedish) but with a nonsense meaning
15:01:41 <AnMaster> <pikhq> And his crimes against Esperanto. <-- that I haven't heard about
15:02:06 <AnMaster> <uorygl> `translate keskellä <-- Finnish?
15:02:36 <oerjan> no, clearly it's upper left mongolian
15:02:39 <AnMaster> <uorygl> That's less efficient. <-- why are you comparing to English there?
15:03:22 <oerjan> translation always tends to make things longer, regardless of direction
15:03:55 <AnMaster> <uorygl> I guess Google Translate is stupid. <-- yes, usually
15:07:34 <AnMaster> <uorygl> How do you say "dog"? Maybe I'd like to talk about the dog's rock. <-- isn't the classical thing to learn to talk about in a foreign language something completely useless?
15:07:38 <AnMaster> unlike that
15:08:06 <AnMaster> oerjan, hm
15:08:29 <AnMaster> oh btw, wrt removing k in "armktokhund", only the first k
15:08:43 <AnMaster> oerjan, does Norwegian have "tok"?
15:08:53 * AnMaster is unsure how to properly translate it to English
15:09:11 <oerjan> AnMaster: i don't think so. what does it mean?
15:09:34 <AnMaster> "madman" is _way_ too strong, "eccentric" sounds like some rich person.
15:09:40 <AnMaster> hm
15:09:44 <fizzie> fi:keskellä is about en:"in the middle".
15:09:45 <oerjan> tokig means silly in swedish iirc
15:09:49 <AnMaster> oerjan, yes
15:09:49 <oerjan> or is that crazy
15:09:52 <AnMaster> well
15:09:54 <AnMaster> oerjan, both
15:10:13 <AnMaster> it depends on context I guess
15:10:32 <AnMaster> there isn't a 1:1 mapping
15:10:41 <AnMaster> oerjan, tok is a noun for someone who is tokig
15:10:47 <oerjan> mhm
15:10:47 <fizzie> Another Amazon recommendation: "How to Survive a Robot Uprising: Tips on Defending Yourself Against the Coming Rebellion". They must be trying to tell me something.
15:11:11 <AnMaster> why did I read that as "reboot surprising"?
15:11:19 <fizzie> Though why would they give me advance warning? Some kind of a dastardly plan.
15:11:44 <oerjan> AnMaster: the robots have already planted a chip in your brain so you have trouble recognizing it
15:11:58 <AnMaster> oerjan, hah
15:12:13 <oerjan> fizzie: it's le resistance, clearly
15:12:17 <AnMaster> true
15:12:43 <AnMaster> anyway, I guess English has no perfect mapping of sv:tok
15:13:28 <oerjan> i wonder if no:tosk is related, that means just a stupid person though
15:13:52 <AnMaster> it may or may not have a negative connotation, it kind of depends on how it is used
15:16:22 <AnMaster> from wikipedia "The 29 highest mountains in Norway are all in Jotunheimen, including the very highest - Galdhøpiggen (2469 m)." <-- doesn't "the highest 29" by definition include every subset of itself?
15:16:45 <oerjan> you'd think
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15:17:23 <AnMaster> in fact I would even say that generally all sets include all it's own subsets, by definition
15:17:42 <AnMaster> (or at least, trivially provable from definitions)
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15:19:55 <Rugxulo> hey, I don't remember ever hearing about a Brainf*** interpreter in Befunge-98 (but no, I didn't write it) ... http://fi.muni.cz/~xgoljer/bf.txt
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15:20:21 <fizzie> There's one in the bot, you know.
15:20:40 <fizzie> I think it's nowadays even linked from the wiki.
15:20:59 <fizzie> I haven't stand-alonized that version, though, like I have for the Underload one.
15:21:36 <AnMaster> !bf_txtgen Hello world
15:21:40 <AnMaster> ?
15:21:42 <AnMaster> !hel
15:21:43 <AnMaster> !help
15:21:43 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
15:21:43 <EgoBot> 108 ++++++++++[>+++++++>+>++++++++++>+++<<<<-]>++.>>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.<. [899]
15:21:48 <AnMaster> ah
15:21:49 <AnMaster> slow
15:21:58 <AnMaster> `bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>+>++++++++++>+++<<<<-]>++.>>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.<.
15:22:05 <HackEgo> No output.
15:22:14 <AnMaster> err
15:22:14 <AnMaster> ^bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>+>++++++++++>+++<<<<-]>++.>>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.<.
15:22:14 <fizzie> I'm going to hazard a guess that mine is more efficient; I translate the input brainfuck to a bytecode (collapsing consecutive +-<>s) and use a jump-table-based interpreter for the bytecode, instead of that long chain of ifs.
15:22:15 <AnMaster> fizzie, where is fungot
15:22:24 <AnMaster> alsso wtf
15:22:26 <AnMaster> also*
15:22:54 <AnMaster> fizzie, you fixed the collapsing of > but not < (or was it the other way around?)
15:23:09 <fizzie> Okay, that's still broken. :p
15:23:27 <AnMaster> fizzie, plus it doesn't reconnect on connection lost properly
15:23:42 <oerjan> AnMaster: Gregor's bots are always slow on the first command when they haven't been used for a while
15:23:50 <Rugxulo> BTW, anybody have VISBEF.ZIP (Visual Befunge)? original site is down and mirror is broken
15:23:56 <fizzie> That wouldn't have helped; it had hung up, not lost the connection. (It's anyone's guess why no time-out had interrupted it, though.)
15:23:58 <Rugxulo> gah, so annoying that stuff disappears!!
15:24:03 <AnMaster> oerjan, I wonder what else those computers run then, since presumably it is a cache effect
15:24:05 <AnMaster> + slow disk
15:24:15 <AnMaster> + not a lot of ram / a lot of other things wanting ram
15:24:46 <fizzie> I'm going to have to reconnectize, my hostmask's again broken. *Really* should fix those IPv6 reverse-DNS entries some day.
15:24:47 -!- fizzie has quit (Quit: jumpin' jumpin').
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15:24:50 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, visbef is for what OS?
15:24:57 <AnMaster> err, grammar
15:24:58 <Rugxulo> Win32
15:25:14 -!- fungot has joined.
15:25:22 <AnMaster> ah, then I know for sure I don't have a copy stored anywhere
15:25:24 <Rugxulo> BTW, you're right, Esolang wiki has the B98 Brainf*** interpreter ... but only on the Brainf*** page, not the Befunge page
15:25:42 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, does a page about C have every possible C program?
15:25:51 <fizzie> Rugxulo: I mean, the one in the bot is linked from the huge table of esolangs-implemented-in-other-esolangs.
15:26:00 <AnMaster> fizzie, where is that table?
15:26:05 <AnMaster> ^bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>+>++++++++++>+++<<<<-]>++.>>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.<.
15:26:05 <fungot> Hello world.
15:26:09 <fizzie> AnMaster: I couldn't find it the last time I looked. :)
15:26:14 <AnMaster> where did the . come from
15:26:20 <AnMaster> it wasn't in my original command
15:26:23 <AnMaster> fizzie, ^
15:26:35 <Rugxulo> heh, TECO version ;-)
15:26:41 <AnMaster> fizzie, so you could have dreamt it?
15:26:47 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, what? a TECO interpreter in befunge?
15:26:54 <AnMaster> (now THAT would be a nice idea)
15:26:59 <fizzie> AnMaster: The . is a newline, I think.
15:27:02 <AnMaster> ah
15:27:02 <Rugxulo> AnMaster, Brainf*** is arguably the most popular esolang ... so mentioning it isn't horrible (esp. since the Befunge page already mentions it)
15:27:07 <AnMaster> yes egobot adds newlines
15:27:11 <Rugxulo> no, Brainf*** in TECO
15:27:26 <AnMaster> ah
15:27:35 <oerjan> AnMaster: EsoInterpreters
15:28:22 <Rugxulo> BTW, somebody hacked my REXX B93 interpreter to be faster, but it needs a few compatibility tweaks before it will run on PCs
15:28:59 <Rugxulo> avoids the stack, though, not sure if that is for speed or not (at least it works around a 16-bit BREXX bug)
15:29:22 <Rugxulo> s/stack/REXX stack/
15:29:31 <AnMaster> what graph based esolangs are there? I don't mean graph rewriting, I mean like state machines represented as graphs, but not just plain old boring Moore/Mealy-automatons (which aren't esoteric)
15:29:56 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, REXX?
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15:31:25 <Rugxulo> what is your question, what is REXX or why?
15:31:52 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, what it is
15:32:23 <Rugxulo> (tech answer) replacement scripting lang for EXEC on mainframes (simple answer) something common on Amiga and OS/2
15:32:50 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, wait a sec, what does mainframes have to do with amiga?
15:33:05 <Rugxulo> nothing ... but REXX is an interpreted language, and several implementations exist
15:33:38 <Rugxulo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REXX
15:33:45 <AnMaster> and what do you mean with replacing EXEC? Was EXEC some other scripting language? Or do you mean exec as "execute other program"
15:34:04 <Rugxulo> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.rexx/topics?lnk=srg
15:34:09 <Rugxulo> it was another scripting language
15:34:19 <AnMaster> (which is exec or execv() or similar on most sane platforms, but is CreateProcessEx() on windows)
15:35:29 <Rugxulo> http://sourceforge.net/projects/oorexx/
15:35:38 <AnMaster> OO as in OOP?
15:35:45 <Rugxulo> optional, came later, but yes
15:36:05 <AnMaster> argh
15:36:49 <Rugxulo> TRL2 (level 4) in 1990, ANSI (level 5) in 1996, Object Rexx (level 6) in 1995-ish??? (and open-sourced in 2005 or so)
15:38:13 <fizzie> OT7, the level 7 Operating Thetan.
15:38:24 <fizzie> I don't know why that reminded me of.
15:39:07 <oerjan> object oriented thetan
15:39:17 * Rugxulo only barely learned any REXX two months ago, so is far from a pro
15:39:36 <fizzie> oerjan: They should start some sort of OOT levels, perhaps.
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15:46:45 <Rugxulo> AnMaster, they have 64-bit compiles for Linux of ooREXX ... although you're a Gentoo user, right?
15:47:20 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, arch linux since several months
15:47:30 <AnMaster> but I dislike OO
15:47:49 <AnMaster> plus I don't see why I would be interested in REXX at all currently
15:48:12 * oerjan realizes that the people who look for object-oriented K are going to be so disappointed
15:50:25 <Rugxulo> OO is optional, my B93 doesn't use it
15:51:00 <Rugxulo> is the Esolang wiki dead or is it still a good idea to update it?
15:51:21 * oerjan swats Rugxulo -----###
15:51:27 <fizzie> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges -- that doesn't look dead to me!
15:51:37 <oerjan> it's just resting!
15:51:48 <Rugxulo> well, I noticed a lot of errors and broken links and a few omissions, so ...
15:51:59 <fizzie> oerjan: That is not dead which can eternal lie!
15:52:28 <oerjan> Rugxulo: well the old stuff is not always very well maintained
15:52:36 <Rugxulo> I've still never heard anybody ever mention the "Betty compiler" :-/
15:52:39 <AnMaster> oerjan, it's pining for the fjords
15:53:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:53:43 <oerjan> the community is active enough to get some new stuff, but not to proofread the entire wiki regularly...
15:55:16 <oerjan> i sometimes help proofread new stuff, but other times i'm just too lazy
15:55:45 <Rugxulo> well, would it be horribly out of place if I (eventually) fixed a few errors myself?
15:55:54 <oerjan> of course not
15:56:19 <oerjan> i _do_ check recent changes, so if you do something egregious we'll revert it :D
15:57:00 <Rugxulo> no no, nothing bad (obviously), that would be crazy dumb
15:57:11 <Rugxulo> I just didn't want to step on any toes
15:57:47 <fizzie> Just few ads for your limb-enlargement pills, but nothing bad.
15:58:28 <oerjan> i generally don't edit user pages. and i wouldn't change fundamental definitions in other people's languages either. but all kinds of fixes and improved writing in the main article space is fine
15:59:11 <Rugxulo> broken links annoy me, but I guess a link to WayBack (if available) is better than nothing
15:59:12 <oerjan> i'm sometimes worried when an anonymous IP does major changes to a language - i cannot know if it's really the original author
16:00:13 <oerjan> yeah if someone just removes a link i often put it back as wayback
16:00:49 <oerjan> assuming there is no better one
16:01:33 <Rugxulo> AnMaster, you really need to mirror Cfunge since your server is always down :-P
16:01:54 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, it is gone, the official site is the launchpad project nowdays
16:02:09 <AnMaster> if there is a non-updated link somewhere it should be updated
16:02:50 <Rugxulo> Befunge page (duh) ;-)
16:03:02 <Rugxulo> who'd thunk it? ^_^
16:03:13 <AnMaster> I don't remember my login to the wiki
16:03:20 <AnMaster> in fact I haven't for years now
16:04:00 <oerjan> if you registered email back then you could get a new password, i think
16:04:08 <AnMaster> oerjan, well that's the problem
16:04:10 <AnMaster> I didn̈́t
16:04:14 <AnMaster> didn't*
16:07:41 -!- lereah_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:11:20 <Rugxulo> well, for instance, Underload page doesn't mention Keymaker's Brainf*** interpreter for it, which I think is a glaring omission
16:31:53 -!- augur has joined.
16:40:48 <Rugxulo> AnMaster, still here?
16:46:32 <Rugxulo> guess not
16:46:54 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.).
16:57:18 <AnMaster> back
16:57:21 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, I was away eating
16:57:30 <AnMaster> what did you want?
16:59:52 <oerjan> WHAT. DO YOU. WANT.
17:00:55 <AnMaster> oerjan, this sounds familiar... I can't place it
17:00:58 <AnMaster> what was it a reference to?
17:01:56 <oerjan> well technically girl genius
17:02:06 <oerjan> but really i just tried to sound similarly ominous
17:02:35 <AnMaster> oerjan, hm must have been somewhere else as I know I never read that webcomic
17:03:06 <oerjan> possibly it's been done before
17:03:18 <AnMaster> well yes, it doesn't require that much imagination
17:04:53 <oerjan> oh i was trying to look it up through tvtropes
17:05:23 <AnMaster> oerjan, many results?
17:05:31 <oerjan> and there it's listed as an example of "THIS! IS! SPARTA!" maybe that's what you were thinking of?
17:05:43 <AnMaster> oerjan, no, definitely not
17:05:53 <oerjan> i mean i was trying to find the precise comic
17:06:02 <AnMaster> oerjan, I see it in a hollow voice. Think death on discworld kind of voice
17:06:12 <AnMaster> but I'm pretty sure it isn't from discworld
17:06:16 <oerjan> http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051005
17:06:42 <oerjan> it wasn't actually all caps...
17:06:50 <oerjan> er wait it was
17:07:14 <oerjan> just like all the text, though
17:07:56 <oerjan> alas it's impossible to google for it, afaik
17:08:51 <oerjan> (and i missed a period.)
17:11:58 -!- tombom has joined.
17:13:01 <Rugxulo> AnMaster, sorry ... ran off when nobody was looking ^_^
17:16:03 -!- hiato has joined.
17:21:09 <Rugxulo> (bah, he's gone again)
17:44:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
17:50:16 -!- fax has joined.
17:50:37 <Rugxulo> yes
18:10:00 <augur> fax, welcome to three years ago.
18:10:29 <fax> aaugur
18:12:09 <augur> if you wish to ping me, dont misspell my name :|
18:17:12 <Rugxulo> (B93) is this code interesting? http://www.pastebin.org/192619
18:17:30 <Rugxulo> note that I didn't (yet) obfuscate it ;-)
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18:37:29 <Rugxulo> already, here it is, barely obfuscated but anyways ... http://www.pastebin.org/192674
18:38:08 <hiato> Rugxulo: I don't theink that does what I first thought it did
18:39:08 <Rugxulo> it doesn't really have much of a point ;-)
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19:13:29 <Rugxulo> ais523: did you know Keymaker wrote a Brainf*** version of Underload?
19:14:32 <ais523> Rugxulo: yes
19:14:41 <ais523> I even programmed it into EgoBot a while ago
19:14:45 <Rugxulo> well it wasn't listed on the wiki page, so ...
19:14:53 <ais523> after modifying it to run as an EgoBot daemon rather than a standalone script
19:15:10 <Rugxulo> what is EgoBot written in?
19:15:19 <fizzie> Oh, yes! Didn't we have that in fungot too? Before I wrote the native Underload interp in Befunge in it.
19:15:20 <fungot> fizzie: you're not a schweinpenis," you mean " common" as in a form that wraps some foreign code, and g as well for more complex examples what the...
19:15:40 <fizzie> It was... not fast, I think.
19:15:55 <fizzie> Which is perhaps understandable.
19:16:34 <fizzie> The fungot ^bf cycle-count limits meant you could run "(hello)S" and maybe a swap of two short strings or something, but not much more.
19:16:35 <fungot> fizzie: still input is broken as it always display prompt and so on
19:18:43 <ais523> Rugxulo: a mix of langs, IIRC
19:19:02 <fizzie> [2008-10-07 23:04:33] < ehird> ^ul (ass)S
19:19:02 <fizzie> [2008-10-07 23:04:39] < fungot> ass
19:19:02 <fizzie> [2008-10-07 23:03:09] < ais523> ^ul (:aSS):aSS
19:19:02 <fizzie> [2008-10-07 23:03:16] < fungot> ...out of time!
19:19:02 <fungot> fizzie: while haskell belongs to the fnord page, hopefully it didn't get violent, i guess
19:19:02 <fungot> fizzie: i got version 360, i'm not
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19:35:15 <Rugxulo> quine (needs stack to pop 0 and needs to be on first line where y=0): :0g,1+:94+`#@_
19:35:32 <Rugxulo> now wrap it up like this and it still works
19:35:35 <Rugxulo> ^ >
19:35:35 <Rugxulo> :0g,1+:94+`#@_
19:35:35 <Rugxulo> >"N":> #p #0 #\ #g #1 #: #: #: #- #1##_ ^
19:35:44 <Rugxulo> (okay, obviously IRC doesn't handle spaces well)
19:35:54 <Rugxulo> but you get the idea ;-)
19:37:20 <Rugxulo> side effect: should now work even if your interpreter doesn't pop 0
19:39:06 <fizzie> There's nothing "obviously" space-unfriendly about IRC, and I'm not sure what (if anything) is wrong re spaces there.
19:39:17 <fizzie> The > and ^ at the right edge align perfectly, if that's what you mean.
19:39:24 <Rugxulo> okay, maybe it's Opera, it just didn't keep the spaces aligned :-P
19:39:28 <Rugxulo> for me
19:39:37 <fizzie> That's possibly your fault for not using a monospaced font.
19:39:41 <Rugxulo> probably
19:40:36 <Rugxulo> anyways, I basically (for no reason) wanted a way to test the quine without assuming 0 is popped off empty stack, and just tested in purposely-broken interpreter ... works, so I'm happy
19:51:27 <fizzie> Rugxulo: Did I show you my graph?
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21:51:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm... How do you use wget on sites that Firefox open a download dialogue for?
21:51:41 <ais523> you copy the URL, and wget that
21:51:49 <ais523> you need to determine what it is some other way first
21:51:58 <ais523> like starting to download, then copy-pasting the URL shown in the download
21:53:42 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:54:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, that worked. Thanks.
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23:26:59 <ZeroOne> Hiya
23:27:24 <ZeroOne> How come the esolang wiki doesn't present a language of the week?
23:27:42 <ZeroOne> (or day, or month, for that matter)
23:27:54 <ais523> because nobody's set that up
23:28:00 <fax> also why would you want that
23:28:18 <ais523> ZeroOne: you can use the random page button, that might work a similar way
23:30:35 -!- coppro has joined.
23:30:40 <Gregor> ais523: lawl
23:30:49 <ZeroOne> fax: why does every other wiki have an x of the day/week/month/year?
23:32:28 <ZeroOne> I find it makes the main page more dynamic and attracts more visitors, not to mention it showcases some of the best work in the wiki
23:39:06 <ZeroOne> ais523: I could even set that up
23:39:19 <ais523> hmm, we need a featured article process
23:39:22 <ais523> many of the articles are junk
23:41:11 <ZeroOne> I thought the initial featured articles could be chosen based on [[Special:Popularpages]] and [[Special:Mostrevisions]]
23:43:09 <ZeroOne> (and using the random page button wouldn't really work for the exact reason you just mentioned)
23:43:16 <Gregor> There, I fixed it.
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23:53:41 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Hey! Listen!).
23:54:00 <Sgeo> Several of my classmates got in trouble [nothing serious, they're just under more scrutiny] for something I did.
23:54:42 <ais523> ouch, what was it?
23:54:43 <Gregor> So kill them to cover your tracks.
23:54:44 <Sgeo> No one here works in the IT dept. of any schools in NY, right?
23:55:26 <Sgeo> So some of my classmates are wall'ing on the school's Linux system
23:55:36 <Sgeo> And I say that I will spam the next person to wall
23:55:57 <Sgeo> So someone walls, and I do yes | write theirlogin
23:56:16 <Sgeo> They discover that closing the SSH client, and going to log in again, fixes it
23:56:43 <Sgeo> So I hastily decide to make an infinite loop that will keep doing yes | write theirlogin, in the background
23:57:19 <Sgeo> Took a couple of iterations, but then, for one of them, other uninvolved students start saying that nothing's working
23:57:25 <Sgeo> Everything was slowed down to a halt.
23:57:28 <Sgeo> This was on Tuesday.l
23:57:57 <Sgeo> On Thursday, we learn that someone who was doing work from home complained. The people sending broadcast messages were put on a list.
23:58:11 * Sgeo did not send any broadcast messages..
23:58:30 <pikhq> ... Your IT department lets arbitrary users wall?
23:58:41 <pikhq> Dang, that's dumb.
23:58:51 <Sgeo> Not anymore
23:59:02 -!- nooga has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
23:59:10 <Sgeo> The binary was deleted, apparently
23:59:34 <pikhq> That's dumbtarded.
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