←2010-09-26 2010-09-27 2010-09-28→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:06:55 <Sgeo> Assuming that evolution continues, as cosmic background radiation decreases, they may evolve to need less, or perhaps no, food
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00:19:28 <alise> oerjan: is "vrinsk" really your "neigh"
00:19:36 <alise> if so i have news for you, horses don't talk like that
00:20:15 <oerjan> heh :D
00:20:45 <oerjan> well it's a verb, i'm not sure it's supposed to onomatopoetic
00:21:33 <oerjan> well and a verbal noun
00:21:35 <Sgeo> alise, comment on my thoughts on cosmic background radiation
00:21:52 <alise> Sgeo: repeat them
00:21:56 <oerjan> "6 Noises Foreign Languages Suck At" :D
00:21:58 <Sgeo> Blargh
00:22:16 <Sgeo> But would lessen in intensive, as gliders from further away end up hitting more debris along the way
00:22:25 <Sgeo> They'd have their own cosmic background radiation
00:22:25 <alise> Sgeo: define cosmic background radiation
00:22:27 <alise> from what initial state?
00:22:29 <oerjan> alise: were you reading that cracked article? :D
00:22:32 <Sgeo> Random soup
00:22:44 <alise> oerjan: someone mentioned it because they read the article, now i am reading the cracked article
00:22:50 <Sgeo> Life might not be immortal: It might evolve to depend on the cosmic background radiation
00:22:51 <alise> article is a bit much of a word for cracked :P
00:22:54 <Sgeo> But would lessen in intensive, as gliders from further away end up hitting more debris along the way
00:23:00 <alise> Sgeo: "lesson in intensive"
00:23:02 <alise> *lessen
00:23:03 <Sgeo> Um, I think I'm repeating them out of order
00:23:54 <Sgeo> But so yeah, if life depends on the background radiation, which lessens... but if life continues to evolve, it may evolve to need less and less
00:28:16 <alise> oerjan: "smask"
00:28:18 <alise> you guys are terrible
00:28:35 <nooga> smask
00:29:23 <alise> [[What the hell kind of monster chickens do you have that are capable of a hard "G" sound?]]
00:31:20 <oerjan> wait what chickens?
00:31:55 <oerjan> (norwegian cocks weren't mentioned i think but they say "kykkeliky")
00:33:15 <alise> norwegian cocks hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ahem anyway
00:33:21 <alise> oerjan: it had "GHOO" in it
00:33:23 <oerjan> i'd like to point out that even if the english versions are not as funny, they're not really closer to the _real_ sounds
00:33:23 <alise> one of the languages
00:33:40 <alise> neigh is fucking closer than vrinsk :P
00:33:44 <oerjan> alise: er armenian was mentioned?
00:33:48 <alise> creak is closer than the other ones there
00:34:15 <oerjan> was that the floorboard thing? ("knirk")
00:35:07 <alise> the german one of that
00:35:31 <oerjan> i guess norwegian is intermediate there :D
00:36:44 <oerjan> oh and armenian has this weird dialect variation, kh in one dialect is g in the other, so those may be sound changes
00:37:57 * oerjan was looking up the only armenian song he knows once, it's either "kharoun kharoun" or "garun garun", dependently
00:39:03 <oerjan> (the ou/u thing may be more about transcription)
00:44:07 <alise> "Some programs in the archive have no associated copyright/license information.
00:44:07 <alise> In general, we assume that authors of these programs don't care how the
00:44:07 <alise> esolang community shares their programs, unless they've said otherwise, but it
00:44:07 <alise> would still be better to keep this clear."
00:44:14 <alise> hm, precedence for the wiki?
00:44:19 <alise> illegal precedence, but from the mouth of god nontheless
00:44:22 <alise> *nonetheless
00:44:27 <alise> *precedent
00:44:37 <alise> [[Of course, you are free to say "Hey, you jerks, stop distributing my
00:44:37 <alise> program!" Although that would be regrettable, such requests will be honored.]]
00:44:44 <alise> we've been more strict about public domain than graue intended, it seems
00:45:14 <oerjan> the wiki and archive are clearly separate
00:45:20 <ais523> yep
00:45:31 <alise> true :P
00:45:42 <alise> i'd say quoting a program on the wiki is less serious than archiving it
00:45:43 <oerjan> there is no requirement that things in the archive be public domain afaik
00:45:45 <ais523> you can't go around publishing non-PD things with a big "this is PD" notice
00:45:46 <alise> and so the policy should trickle down
00:45:48 <alise> but...
00:45:48 <ais523> even if they're something like BSD
00:45:49 <alise> ais523: well, true
00:48:01 <Sgeo> Should I donate PSOX to the public domain?
00:49:14 <ais523> I doubt it'll make any difference whether you do or not
00:49:59 <nooga> minix
00:50:04 <nooga> ever tried it?
00:54:10 <nooga> looks weird
00:54:21 <alise> `addquote <Sgeo> Should I donate PSOX to the public domain? <ais523> I doubt it'll make any difference whether you do or not
00:54:25 <nooga> even less practical than plan9
00:54:27 <alise> Let this be its eulogy and never be spoken of again.
00:54:30 <alise> err
00:54:33 <alise> minix is mostly standard unix
00:54:40 <alise> and its standard shell, ash, is used in quite a lot of minimal linux things
00:54:45 <alise> it's hardly less practical than plan 9
00:54:47 <ais523> Busybox!
00:54:51 <alise> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Minix_3.png
00:54:54 <ais523> not to mention, dash is an ash variant
00:55:09 <nooga> errr
00:55:20 <nooga> that screenshot confirms impracticalness
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00:55:28 <alise> not... really
00:55:31 <alise> it probably runs gnome
00:55:39 <nooga> ;f
00:55:40 <alise> if it runs X.org, twm, xv...
00:55:45 <alise> you have a stupid definition of impractical
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00:55:52 <alise> it may not be ubuntu, but it's very standard posix
00:55:56 <nooga> i doubt that it runs gnome
00:56:01 <nooga> maybe some old gnome
00:56:01 <alise> why do you doubt that?
00:56:05 <alise> kde fucking runs on windows
00:56:14 <alise> minix has a standard POSIX library set
00:56:15 <nooga> bo to kde
00:56:16 <alise> and X.org
00:56:20 <nooga> oops
00:56:22 <alise> of course it'll run gnome
00:56:26 <nooga> because that's kde
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00:57:11 <HackEgo> No output.
00:57:47 <nooga> google "gnome on minix"
00:58:04 <alise> you do realise gnome isn't even remotely linux specific
00:58:06 <alise> GNOME runs on HERD
00:58:08 <alise> *HURD
00:58:09 <alise> for fuck's sake
00:58:16 <alise> Minix is more conventional, and has better support for things, than Hurd
00:58:29 <nooga> turd
00:58:49 <nooga> i realise that gnome isn't linux specific
00:58:56 <alise> you have a warped conception of minix
00:59:08 <nooga> but there are some very certain problems with installing it on minix
00:59:21 <nooga> like, uh, no libs
00:59:36 <nooga> incompatible thingys and stuff (;D)
01:00:20 <oerjan> `echo hm...
01:00:26 <HackEgo> hm...
01:00:41 <pikhq> nooga: Someone's ignorant of Minix 3.
01:00:46 <pikhq> It's a full UNIX.
01:01:15 <nooga> ;F
01:01:28 <nooga> then it's worse than p9
01:01:34 <ais523> alise: well, KDE runs on Windows, which is even more noticeable
01:01:37 <ais523> at least to some extent
01:01:57 <alise> ais523: i said that :P
01:02:06 <alise> nooga: hurd has no libs either
01:02:09 <alise> :P
01:02:12 <ais523> alise: ah, yes
01:02:19 <ais523> towards the top of my current screen of scrollback, though
01:02:23 <ais523> and I didn't think of checking that far up
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01:03:48 <pikhq> alise: It's got Glibc.
01:04:19 <alise> true :P
01:04:20 <nooga> v
01:04:39 <nooga> i think i will try to code another os
01:04:55 <nooga> my previous 2 kernels were based on linux 0.1
01:05:00 <alise> lol
01:05:23 <alise> i might too
01:05:25 <nooga> it's hard to start with no code
01:05:26 <alise> well i am going to make many
01:05:29 <alise> as part of #mitosis
01:05:31 <alise> nooga: read a tutorial
01:05:41 <alise> osdev.org, osdever.net
01:05:54 <alise> http://www.osdever.net/tutorials/index
01:05:58 <alise> and the osdev wiki/forum
01:06:06 <nooga> i was trying to run ruby interpreter on bare metal
01:06:14 <nooga> and then write the rest in ruby
01:06:14 <alise> ew.
01:06:17 <nooga> just for sick fun
01:06:23 <alise> at least do a lisp, for god's sake man
01:06:27 * Sgeo is fantasizing about two civilizations fighting it out
01:06:55 <nooga> i could write basic lisp interpreter in asm
01:07:10 <Sgeo> Well, more like ships produced by one of them is toxic to the other, but I warn the other, so some refugees leave, and in retaliation, build chained Gosing guns
01:07:22 <alise> Sgeo: god fantasies are not healthy.
01:07:41 <alise> also, it's sick to let fighting and the like happen and then just take sides if you're fucking *God*
01:07:53 <pikhq> I'd say the hardest thing is getting paging & multitasking actually *working*.
01:08:06 <Sgeo> The most I did was try to warn one side of the upcoming catastrophy
01:08:12 <Sgeo> I didn't build the guns myself
01:08:20 <pikhq> That is, for getting a reasonably functioning kernel, not getting an extremely good one.
01:08:45 <pikhq> And the second hardest thing is dealing with the BS that is x86.
01:09:01 <nooga> well
01:09:07 <nooga> paging is a bit complicated
01:09:12 <nooga> because of hw mm
01:09:29 <nooga> hw mm can be confusing
01:09:51 <nooga> multitasking is not a big problem though
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01:10:07 <pikhq> Except on x86.
01:10:21 <nooga> the most stupid thing is that the fork function is much easier to write than exec
01:10:23 <pikhq> Okay, wrap that into the second hardest thing there. :P
01:10:24 <nooga> ;]
01:12:26 <nooga> uhm
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01:13:18 <Gregor> alise: FYI, attempting to upgrade 3.51 -> 4.0 results in the same error as before.
01:34:29 * Sgeo has homework he's been neglecting
01:34:41 <alise> Gregor: what error? just freezing?
01:34:49 <Gregor> Yeah
01:34:58 <alise> Gregor: upgrade it with file copies >:)
01:35:10 <Gregor> I half-considered doing that :P
01:40:16 <Sgeo> http://twistedphysics.typepad.com/cocktail_party_physics/2010/09/im-mad-as-hell.html
01:40:18 <Sgeo> I surrender.
01:40:29 <Sgeo> I surrender to the stupidity that has overtaken my country.
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01:59:47 <alise> Gregor: hmm
01:59:52 <alise> Gregor: we could use the exact version they did :)
01:59:58 <Gregor> I have.
02:00:02 <alise> Gregor: qemu version i mean
02:00:03 <alise> pikhq: I blame you, btw.
02:00:11 <Gregor> alise: I have.
02:00:20 <alise> Gregor: what about using the workstation version?
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02:01:14 <Gregor> I've tried using the ISO that the original post you sent had, I think that was WS.
02:02:25 <alise> with the precise version?
02:02:25 <alise> hmm
02:02:32 <alise> can you link me to the wiki page again?
02:02:34 <Gregor> OMGOMGOMG
02:02:40 <Gregor> I got one step farther than I have before.
02:02:42 <Gregor> Past that freeze.
02:03:15 <Gregor> http://hpoussineau.free.fr/qemu/qemu-system-mips64el-3.zip <-- alise: This is NOT the QEmu version he linked to, but it's NEXT to the QEmu version he linked to, and it's horribly slow, and it seems to be working more.
02:03:20 <Gregor> (In wine)
02:03:43 <alise> WAITWAITWAIT
02:03:44 <alise> I am the science officer
02:03:45 <alise> I do this
02:04:03 <Gregor> YOU LOSE I ALREADY AM SO HA
02:04:36 <Sgeo> Hmm, in a random soup, most of the universe would be a cloud of blocks and blinkers, right?
02:04:44 <Sgeo> So life will have to be ok with that
02:04:54 <Sgeo> Life might not be amenable to dead areas
02:05:14 <Sgeo> Isn't there a general name for blinkers and blocks?
02:05:21 <alise> Gregor: You sure do make providing you with materials a rewarding experience
02:05:48 <Gregor> alise: Dood I FOUND THE C++ COMPILER (and although I didn't link it directly to you I gave you sufficient clues to find it)
02:06:08 <alise> I netcatted you the freaking iso and found the wiki page
02:06:10 <alise> You can't top that :P
02:07:45 <alise> Gregor: Why does it hang at loading the setup?
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02:08:30 <alise> oh, there
02:08:48 <Gregor> alise: Like I said, it's REALLY slow.
02:08:51 <alise> no it isn't
02:08:54 <alise> fast enough for me
02:09:14 <Gregor> And yet you were wondering why it "hangs" :P
02:10:33 <Sgeo> Dammit
02:10:45 <Sgeo> What's the term that means either a blinker or a block?
02:10:48 <alise> Gregor: that was just a bug
02:10:51 <alise> Sgeo: butt
02:11:00 <alise> Gregor: I'm on to the bit of setup that usually hangs, ha
02:11:06 <alise> Can't catch me, I'm the gingerbread man
02:11:11 <alise> Gregor: Wow, it *does* get the colours wrong.
02:11:21 <alise> Gregor: Thankfully we can use the usual emulator after this.
02:11:26 <Gregor> I hope so.
02:11:38 <alise> It's 2:11 am; I have to be up at 9 am. Fun.
02:12:05 <alise> Gregor: give me a fucking product key
02:12:09 <Sgeo> Gregor, do you know?
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02:14:16 <Sgeo> Gmail is acting weird :(
02:16:25 <Sgeo> blonk
02:16:59 <alise> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:BitBitJump
02:17:04 <alise> Oleg's stupidity here makes me groan.
02:17:07 <Sgeo> Wait, only low density soups result in blonks?
02:25:51 <pikhq> Oleg? Stupidity?
02:25:55 <pikhq> Must be a different Oleg.
02:26:03 <alise> pikhq: It's the mazonka.com guy.
02:26:11 <alise> Being really stupid about what Turing-completeness is for some reason.
02:26:14 <lament> yeah i was worried enough that i had to go check the link
02:26:20 <alise> Also, can I just say that r.e.s. is the coolest person on the entire wiki?
02:26:23 <lament> it's not the oleg
02:26:29 <alise> heh
02:26:42 <alise> if Oleg turned out to be a drooling retard we'd all just shoot ourselves
02:26:44 <alise> nothing is sacred any more
02:27:10 <lament> yeah...
02:27:14 <pikhq> If the Oleg turned out to be a drooling retard I'd attempt to destroy all life.
02:27:14 <alise> *sniff*
02:27:15 <lament> i attended an oleg talk once
02:27:32 <alise> pikhq: I'd destroy all life in the type system.
02:27:40 <alise> "I attended an Oleg talk once in the type system."
02:27:44 <lament> the first five slides or so convinced everybody that there's a simple problem with a simple solution (i don't really remember what the problem was)
02:28:00 <lament> everyone was like, oh, i understand this
02:28:16 <lament> then he started presenting the solution and lost everyone in the audience
02:28:37 <pikhq> Yup, that's Oleg.
02:28:43 <pikhq> Smarter than you, I guarantee.
02:28:48 <lament> yeah pretty much
02:30:10 <alise> http://i.imgur.com/8kftu.png Looks like regular old Windows NT Server 4.0 right? WRONG. This is Windows NT Server 4.0's *MIPS VERSION* FUCK YEAH
02:31:39 <pikhq> Bitching.
02:32:44 <alise> http://imgur.com/qnAD4.png
02:39:40 <pikhq> By law, schools in the US must improve every year or risk being shut down.
02:40:04 <alise> XD
02:40:38 <alise> "But every four year old is writing papers showing errors in the latest quantum physics papers, and developing alternate, less flawed theories!"
02:40:42 <alise> "INSUFFICIENT"
02:40:54 <pikhq> Clearly we should shut down the awful school that's in the 99th percentile, and send the students to the much better school that went from 50% proficiency to 55% proficiency.
02:41:00 <pikhq> This is actually happening.
02:41:18 <alise> I will now install Visual C++ 2.0 on NT Server 4.0 for MIPS.
02:41:22 <alise> Because I'm just that fucking awesome.
02:42:19 <alise> "To reply to your latest request concerning your questions 1-3: they are all incoherent, as I already stated, because they do not refer to a well-defined concept of computability or computational power."
02:42:20 <alise> "If you do not answer the questions I asked at (Oleg 22:27, 15 September 2009) in yes/no form, I consider that as chickening, or mocking at me. In both cases no dialog is possible."
02:42:42 <alise> all russians are stupid! especially lament
02:43:04 <pikhq> This, BTW, is the result of a bill that Bush advocated, called "No Child Left Behind".
02:43:18 <alise> ah yes that thing
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02:58:24 <alise> [[The article refers to a bbj self-interpreter, which would be a single bbj program capable of interpreting all bbj programs. Excuse my scepticism, but I suspect that you are misusing the terminology, and that you have no such bbj self-interpreter. If you do have one, it could be neatly displayed by simply stating its wordsize and showing the program as a list of integers. For the benefit of those who don't wish to master your assembly language (which evid
02:58:24 <alise> ently does not produce bbj programs anyway), would you please post the self-interpreter here as such a list, or provide a link? It would be interesting to compare it to, say, Clive Gifford's subleq self-interpreter, which is a true OISC self-interpreter comprising a sequence of fewer than 120 integers. --r.e.s. (Talk) 11:44, 15 September 2009 (UTC)]]
02:58:30 <alise> i love how mocking his dryness is
03:00:38 <alise> pikhq: I now have VC++ 2.0.
03:02:03 <alise> http://i.imgur.com/K4Xv0.png
03:05:06 <alise> Goodnight.
03:05:06 <alise> Bye.
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04:04:12 <Sgeo> Dammit, why am I out of disk space
04:04:15 <Sgeo> 36KB left
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04:46:22 <Sgeo> I had to delete Factor
04:46:25 <Sgeo> I am going to cry
04:59:55 <lament> you know what's really awesome, the zeppelin knot
05:00:09 <lament> what's more, it's nearly unknown despite being so awesome
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05:07:30 <Sgeo> If there is a cloud of blonks, then my story doesn't work
05:07:45 <Sgeo> The guns' gliders would not make it to the civilization
05:07:59 <Sgeo> Well, maybe eventually it would clear a path. Doubt it though
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06:06:08 <Sgeo> Someone should do that experiment
06:06:29 <Sgeo> Chained Gospers vs cloud of blonks
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06:15:30 <Blonk> In a world of blonks, gliders do not cut it for eyesight
06:15:39 <Blonk> well, maybe a lot
06:15:45 <Blonk> Well, no
06:15:58 <Blonk> Since almost none would reach a destination of any distance
06:16:45 <Blonk> So we have a basis for determining what appears transparent: Anything that reacts like a blinker or block to the eyesight-pulse is transparent
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06:43:27 <Blonk> Hmm, the shape of the observable universe is square?
06:43:41 <Blonk> Although that's only at c, which is an attoscience notion
06:43:59 <Blonk> At slower speeds, with the sort of spaceships likely to exist at random, it's likely different
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06:58:33 <zzo38> Do you remember the day when the topic message has strange characters on it?
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07:08:30 <zzo38> Third World War can cause controversial issues, decimate the earth, destroy the world, and even cause extreme poverty and a famine! Worst of all, it will fail a Google test!
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07:45:05 <Vorpal> morning
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08:11:21 <Vorpal> bbl
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10:51:30 <nooga> ;f
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12:05:46 <oerjan> iwc (with annotation) XD
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13:05:53 <Sgeo> Bye for now all
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15:59:31 <Phantom_Hoover> 22:06:29 <Sgeo> Chained Gospers vs cloud of blonks
15:59:42 <Phantom_Hoover> I did that experiment when I discovered chained Gospers.
16:00:19 <Phantom_Hoover> The density of the oncoming stream tends to cause a growing cloud of ash, until it throws a glider back along the stream and destroys the gun.
16:01:11 <Sgeo> What does `ls' do on VMS
16:01:15 <Sgeo> I just tried it
16:01:17 <Sgeo> Things went strange
16:01:53 <Phantom_Hoover> 14:58:36 <Sgeo> Suppose a spacefiller does happen to be nearby
16:01:53 <Phantom_Hoover> 14:58:43 <Sgeo> It degrades due to debris
16:01:53 <Phantom_Hoover> 14:58:54 <Sgeo> But couldn't that flood the area with gliders?
16:02:10 <Phantom_Hoover> That's exactly what a burning agar causes.
16:02:30 <Phantom_Hoover> 15:05:56 <Ilari> What are CA rules with two slashes in them (in golly)? ← Generations rules.
16:02:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Third number is the number of states.
16:04:59 <Phantom_Hoover> 16:23:54 <Sgeo> But so yeah, if life depends on the background radiation, which lessens... but if life continues to evolve, it may evolve to need less and less
16:05:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Organism which needs to eat < organism with its own power supply.
16:06:35 <Phantom_Hoover> So evolution *should* result in self-powered organisms dominating.
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16:14:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Although I'm not confident that my model in which the primary competition is for space would favour intelligence.
16:14:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Evoloop tends to the smallest loops possible, which then dominate.
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16:34:35 <Phantom_Hoover> 22:43:27 <Blonk> Hmm, the shape of the observable universe is square?
16:34:36 <Phantom_Hoover> 22:43:41 <Blonk> Although that's only at c, which is an attoscience notion
16:34:36 <Phantom_Hoover> 22:43:59 <Blonk> At slower speeds, with the sort of spaceships likely to exist at random, it's likely different
16:34:38 <Phantom_Hoover> It's a diamond.
16:34:49 -!- Sgeo has joined.
16:34:56 <Sgeo> I hate everyone in my class
16:35:14 <Phantom_Hoover> The demonstrated speed limits for self-propagating objects into the vacuum are c/4 diagonally and c/2 orthogonally.
16:36:58 <Phantom_Hoover> More generally, any effect propagating into the vacuum must remain within a box formed by diagonal lines moving outwards at c/4.
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16:54:46 <Sgeo> I think my professor is tired
16:54:54 <Sgeo> "This is showing that digits are right-justified"
16:55:03 <Sgeo> (On a slide with a negative field-width)
17:02:25 <Sgeo> Is somefunction @somelist meant to pass an array as such to the function, or will somefunction choose to expand it? WHO THE FUCK KNOWS?
17:02:32 <Sgeo> YAY PERL
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17:11:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, you continue to effectively divert me from any form of computing as a career choice.
17:11:07 <nooga> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dj3se/a_c_program_that_prints_out_an_exact_copy_of/
17:11:22 <Phantom_Hoover> nooga, heh.
17:11:39 <Phantom_Hoover> # ruby l=92.chr;eval s="s=s.dump[r=1..-2].gsub(/("+l*4+"){4,}(?!\")/){|t|'\"+l*%d+\"'%(t .size/2)};5.times{s=s.dump[r]};puts\"# python\\nprint(\\\"# perl\\\\nprint(\\\\\\ \"# lua"+l*4+"nprint("+l*7+"\"(* ocaml *)"+l*8+"nprint_endline"+l*15+"\"-- haskel l"+l*16+"nimport Data.List;import Data.Bits;import Data.Char;main=putStrLn("+l*31 +"\"/* C */"+l*32+"n#include<stdio.h>"+l*32+"nint main(void){char*s[501]={"+
17:11:40 <Phantom_Hoover> l*31+ "\"++intercalate"+l*31+"\","+l*31+"\"(c(tail(init(show("+l*31+"\"/* Java */"+l*32 +"npublic class QuineRelay{public static void main(String[]a){String[]s={"+l*31+" \"++intercalate"+l*31+"\","+l*31+"\"(c("+l*31+"\"brainfuck"+l*64+"n++++++++[>++++ <-]+++++++++>>++++++++++"+l*31+"\"++(concat(snd(mapAccumL h 2("+l*31+"\"110"+l*31 +"\"++g(length s)++"+l*31+"\"22111211100111112021111102011112120012"+l*31+"\"
17:11:40 <Phantom_Hoover> ++co ncatMap("+l*32+"c->let d=ord c in if d<11then"+l*31+"\"21002"+l*31+"\"else"+l*31+ "\"111"+l*31+"\"++g d++"+l*31+"\"22102"+l*31+"\")s++"+l*31+"\"2100211101012021122 2211211101000120211021120221102111000110120211202"+l*31+"\"))))))++"+l*31+"\","+l *63+"\""+l*64+"n"+l*63+"\"};int i=0;for(;i<94;i++)System.out.print(s[i]);}}"+l*31 +"\")))))++"+l*31+"\",0};int i=0;for(;s[i];i++)printf("+l*63+"\"%s"+l*63+"\",s
17:11:47 <Phantom_Hoover> [i] );puts("+l*63+"\""+l*63+"\");return 0;}"+l*31+"\");c s=map("+l*32+"s->"+l*31+"\"" +l*63+"\""+l*31+"\"++s++"+l*31+"\""+l*63+"\""+l*31+"\")(unfoldr t s);t[]=Nothing; t s=Just(splitAt(if length s>w&&s!!w=='"+l*31+"\"'then 501else w)s);w=500;f 0=Not hing;f x=Just((if x`mod`2>0then '0'else '1'),x`div`2);g x= reverse (unfoldr f x); h p c=let d=ord c-48in(d,replicate(abs(p-d))(if d<p then '<'else '>')++"+l*31+"
17:11:52 <Phantom_Hoover> \" ."+l*31+"\");s="+l*31+"\"# ruby"+l*32+"n"+l*31+"\"++"+l*31+"\"l=92.chr;eval s=\"+ (z=l*31)+\"\\\"\"+s+z+\"\\\""+l*31+"\"++"+l*31+"\""+l*32+"n"+l*31+"\""+l*15+"\""+ l*7+"\")"+l*4+"n\\\\\\\")\\\")\"########### (c) Yusuke Endoh, 2009 ###########\n"
17:11:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Oops.
17:11:58 <Phantom_Hoover> I couldn't tell the length.
17:12:05 <Phantom_Hoover> You may disembowel be now.
17:12:11 <Phantom_Hoover> *me
17:12:15 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:13:03 <nooga> looks pretty cool
17:13:07 <alise> hi ais523
17:13:34 <alise> "is there a quine that compiles itself and runs and compiles the out put and run forever?" ;; ooh
17:13:37 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, was I being stupid?
17:13:44 <Sgeo> >.>
17:13:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, no.
17:13:51 <alise> ais523: quick, what's the standard perl quine?
17:13:59 <alise> the C-style one with printf, I guess
17:14:02 <ais523> alise: via cheating, or fairly?
17:14:08 <alise> ais523: fairly
17:14:12 <alise> like main(){char q=34, n=10,*a="main() {char q=34,n=10,*a=%c%s%c; printf(a,q,a,q,n);}%c";printf(a,q,a,q,n);}
17:14:20 <ais523> it's one of those two-identical-halves ones, IIRC
17:14:30 <Sgeo> Bye all
17:14:47 <ais523> print<<''x2,"\n"
17:14:48 <ais523> print<<''x2,"\n"
17:14:50 <ais523> followed by a blank line
17:15:04 <alise> $b='$b=%c%s%c;printf$b,39,$b,39;';printf$b,39,$b,39;
17:15:05 <ais523> (you can't send the blank line over IRC easily, but it's needed for the two halves to be identical, and also as a string terminator)
17:15:06 <alise> that's more like it
17:15:09 <alise> perl has sprintf, right?
17:15:12 <ais523> yep
17:15:19 <alise> $b='$b=%c%s%c;eval sprintf$b,39,$b,39;';eval sprintf$b,39,$b,39;
17:15:28 <alise> helloooo SMITH
17:15:31 <alise> or what was the language called
17:15:32 <alise> muriel?
17:15:35 <ais523> Muriel, yes
17:15:44 <ais523> SMITH was a similar concept, but based on cheat-quines
17:15:53 <alise> $b='$b=%c%s%c;print".\n"; eval sprintf$b,39,$b,39;';print".\n";eval sprintf$b,39,$b,39;
17:16:15 <alise> 08:34:38 <Phantom_Hoover> It's a diamond.
17:16:19 <alise> geometry of the infinite GoL plane, wonderful
17:16:34 <Phantom_Hoover> No, I'm referring to the observable universe.
17:16:38 <alise> 09:02:25 <Sgeo> Is somefunction @somelist meant to pass an array as such to the function, or will somefunction choose to expand it? WHO THE FUCK KNOWS?
17:16:40 <alise> 09:02:32 <Sgeo> YAY PERL
17:16:47 <alise> grumble @ people who misunderstand Perl
17:16:53 <alise> and think they're clever for hating on it
17:17:01 <alise> sure it sucks but... not *that* much :)
17:18:42 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:18:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Any language with TC-parsable syntax is fine by me.
17:19:30 <alise> ais523: did you see? I got NT 4.0 running on MIPS.
17:19:34 <alise> With Visual C++. Oh yeah.
17:19:48 <ais523> I didn't see, but I'm not surprised
17:19:51 <alise> A veritable smorgasbord of no applications at all are at my disposal.
17:20:28 <ais523> alise: re your Sgeo quote, I think it's quite sensible for a lang to do that if documentation for the function is available
17:21:22 <alise> ais523: if you care: i.imgur.com/8kftu.png, i.imgur.com/K4Xv0.png
17:21:32 <alise> I probably shouldn't circumvent your URL blocking. Sorry.
17:22:06 <alise> (Anyone: spot the joke and win points.)
17:22:12 <alise> (In one of the images.)
17:23:30 <quintopia> something to do with NT being really old, needing a DeLorean to reach the point in time where it's still cool?
17:23:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Not a terribly good one
17:23:45 <alise> it's just the DeLorean being a time machine
17:23:54 <alise> and both NT 4 and MIPS workstations being old
17:24:02 <alise> funnier if you don't dissect the unfunny version of the joke beforehand :P
17:24:18 <alise> ais523: fun fact, I had to *run QEMU in WINE* to get that installed.
17:24:35 <alise> An *old* version of QEMU.
17:25:45 <ais523> haha
17:25:45 <ais523> was this Linux WINE? or Windows WINE?
17:25:45 <alise> huh? I had to run WINE on the host Ubuntu, of course.
17:25:45 <alise> Nobody has compiled WINE for NT/MIPS because that's just silly.
17:25:45 <alise> So I'm not sure what you mean.
17:25:56 <ais523> alise: I thought it might be a way to deal with compatibility issues
17:26:19 <alise> Both old and new QEMUs didn't work, including the Windows binary linked to on the wiki page; but there was an older compiled version in the directory beside it that displayed colours wrongly, but actually got past the freeze in the installation.
17:26:23 <alise> And boy was it slow in WINE.
17:26:39 <alise> But somehow mine finished before Gregor's even though he started before I even downloaded it, so nyah.
17:26:51 <alise> Bah, silly thing, not remembering the date.
17:26:53 <alise> It's not 1601.
17:27:03 <ais523> alise: what do you think of Agora's new website by the way? (http://agoranomic.org/ for people who like convenient links to click on)
17:27:41 <alise> ais523: the two columns are unnecessarily confusing; it is unclear which to focus on at any given moment, and disrupts any natural reading order of the page.
17:28:00 <alise> they're pretty much an ultimate design fail right there, but I'll soldier on and look at the content
17:28:01 <ais523> alise: you focus on whichever one contains the information you want?
17:28:08 <alise> ais523: that does not help someone new to Agora.
17:28:25 <alise> or do you think we should put all paragraphs horizontal to each other, too, in case you want to look at some other one first?
17:28:40 <ais523> alise: it's because reading very long lines is really annoying
17:28:42 <alise> there's nothing stopping an experienced player using the scrollbar; for new players, it is distracting and confusing.
17:28:49 <alise> ais523: so make it one column with a reduced width
17:28:54 <alise> like, y'know, books
17:28:59 <ais523> that's ridiculously ugly and no website should do it
17:29:18 <ais523> do you think newspapers are a design fail?
17:29:31 <alise> right, well, you're not exactly someone i consider someone with great aesthetic tastes, no offence.
17:29:45 <alise> no, but newspapers have a very different purpose, and their text has a strict chronological order, just ordered for space
17:29:50 <alise> and it is purely a space-saving measure
17:29:57 <alise> I defer again to books, which are, of course, much nicer to read than newspapers
17:30:58 <alise> *newspapers.
17:31:27 <ais523> not really
17:32:30 <alise> Well, either you're wrong or my strong personal experience, the experience of pretty much everyone I know to exist apart from you, and centuries of refined typographical practice are wrong. People have just got used to crappy typography on screen.
17:33:41 <alise> speaking of nomic, [[On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:18 PM, ais523 <callforjudgement@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
17:33:41 <alise> > We normally don't care about such things, especially when there's a good
17:33:41 <alise> > reason. (An exception is if the Pariah does something like this; that's
17:33:41 <alise> > a risk which comes with being the Pariah.)
17:33:41 <alise> Another exception is if you recently NoVed a bunch of people for late reports.]]
17:33:42 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `if'
17:33:42 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `,'
17:33:42 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `)'
17:33:46 <alise> ah, Wooble
17:33:52 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:33:58 <ais523> alise: well, I'm one of those rare people who actually /reduces/ font size from the default
17:34:01 <alise> always carefully maintaining his well-nurtured reputation of being a complete and utter jerk
17:34:08 <ais523> also, why is lambdabot here?
17:34:15 <alise> ais523: because I asked someone to bring it back in here
17:34:17 <ais523> not that I mind, I'm just surprised
17:34:18 <alise> and it suddenly appeared
17:34:23 <alise> despite oerjan denying doing ita
17:34:25 <alise> *it
17:34:28 <alise> and nobody else coming forward
17:34:34 <alise> we had it for ages not too long ago
17:34:35 <alise> 2009, maybe
17:34:38 <alise> and i miss it
17:34:45 <alise> especially since !haskell is rather crappy
17:34:45 <Phantom_Hoover> 'Twas I who got the lambdabot.
17:34:52 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: ah, thankees
17:35:00 <alise> have you thanked lemmih on our behalf? if not, i will
17:35:16 <Phantom_Hoover> I can't remember by now...
17:35:23 <alise> lawl
17:35:27 <alise> I'll thank 'im anyway
17:35:30 <alise> did you do /msg or Haskell?
17:35:36 <alise> so I know which channel to respond in
17:35:40 <Phantom_Hoover> I can remember that he said it wasn't necessarily permanent.
17:35:45 <Phantom_Hoover> And it was in the channel.
17:35:51 <alise> we are on trial :P
17:35:52 <alise> Control Panel item: "Tape Devices"
17:38:07 <ais523> well, tar still assumes it's accessing a tape drive by default
17:38:17 <alise> heh, really?
17:38:26 -!- distant_figure has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
17:38:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Pointless backward compatibility is the POSIX spirit!
17:38:44 <ais523> alise: why do you think you have to add an f every single time?
17:38:58 <alise> ais523: ah, is the argument treated as a tape drive otherwise?
17:38:59 <alise> amazing
17:39:03 <alise> or do you have to pipe it in somehow?
17:39:11 <alise> you can't say </dev/foo, i don't think. maybe you can.
17:39:27 <ais523> I'm not sure how it works without f, as I've never tried to run tar on an actual tape drive
17:39:31 <Phantom_Hoover> One of the few things I actually agreed with in the GNU style guide was that full POSIX compliance is stupid as hell.
17:39:52 <alise> challenge: get a thesis published in both Ann. Agora and an actual journal
17:40:01 <ais523> alise: without f, it uses $TAPE, or stdin/stdout if it happens to be unset
17:40:09 <alise> (Annals of Agora, Proceedings of the Agoran Society...)
17:40:25 <alise> ais523: in the rare, rare case that $TAPE is unset :)
17:40:36 <ais523> it's unset on this laptop
17:40:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Since it has all sorts of idiocy, like 512B blocks for df rather than KB.
17:40:41 <ais523> but then, it doesn't actually have a tape drive
17:40:42 <alise> ais523: unthinkable
17:40:54 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: gnu du still does that iirc :)
17:41:21 <ais523> theory: the first version of any program should always require an option that's needed for the program to do anything useful
17:41:43 <alise> <dstcruz> clear
17:41:43 <alise> <dstcruz> ls
17:41:43 <alise> * dstcruz has quit (Quit: leaving)
17:41:45 <ais523> so that later one when people realise that the default options are braindead, you can make the option into a --traditional equivalent, and change the defaults to something saner
17:42:00 <ais523> alise: wrong window focused, do you think?
17:42:15 <alise> yes, but usually people aren't stupid enough to get *two* commands in
17:42:20 <alise> especially after clear fails to clear the window
17:42:39 <Phantom_Hoover> How is clear actually specified?
17:43:06 <alise> "clears the terminal"
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17:43:13 <alise> D:\>ping google.com
17:43:15 <alise> Bad IP address google.com.
17:43:18 <alise> Stupid NT 4 :P
17:43:32 <alise> Having said that I have no network, so maybe it'd work with one.
17:44:00 <alise> Can you believe this thing has IIS?
17:45:02 <alise> "Server: IIS 2.0 for Windows NT 4.0, MIPS architecture"
17:46:10 <ais523> alise: Windows is famous for having a bunch of services that it doesn't need, sitting there as security holes
17:46:32 <alise> IIS isn't exactly just a security hole
17:46:45 <alise> this is the server edition in 1996; it's practically guaranteed to be running a web server of some sort
17:46:49 <alise> besides, i selected to install it
17:47:21 <alise> UNDOCUMENTED(1) Mono Manual UNDOCUMENTED(1)
17:47:22 <alise> NAME
17:47:22 <alise> undocumented - No manpage for this program.
17:47:22 <alise> DESCRIPTION
17:47:22 <alise> This program does not have a manpage. Run this command with the help
17:47:22 <alise> switch to see what it does. For further information, refer to the .NET
17:47:24 <alise> documentation from the Mono project, located on http://www.go-
17:47:26 <alise> mono.com/docs/
17:47:28 <alise> Debian GNU/Linux January 15th, 2004 UNDOCUMENTED(1)
17:47:30 <alise> Manual page cli-wrapper(1) line 1/16 (END)
17:47:32 <alise> too good not to paste...
17:47:55 <alise> "Writing manual pages is quite easy, the format is described in man(7)." -- undocumented(7)
17:49:25 <fizzie> "Try the following options if you want more information: foo --help, foo -h, foo -?, info foo, whatis foo, apropos foo, dpkg --listfiles foo, dpkg --search foo, locate '*foo*', find / -name '*foo*'" -- I like how it gets more and more desperate
17:50:06 <ais523> fizzie: they missed apt-cache search
17:50:33 <ais523> which is admittedly quite an off-chance (relying on you having installed a package without using the package system, when it exists in that system)
17:50:50 <fizzie> Well, apt-cache search could find foo-doc, if it's a different package than foo.
17:51:02 <ais523> yep
17:51:15 <alise> *aptitude
17:51:17 <fizzie> (They do mention that you might want to look for a foo-doc package, but not in that list.)
17:51:22 <alise> aptitude is the Debian Project's official package manager :-)
17:51:34 <alise> apt has gone the way of dpkg(1) :P
17:51:44 -!- distant_figure has joined.
17:54:34 <alise> "I love the poor. I feel that the poor are more sensible when you see the antics of the rich. And for some reasons many Indians believe that creating wealth is sinful.
17:54:34 <alise> Anyway although I have several physical machines with me I still prefer not having to power them on, connect the power chord, the Ethernet chord, use a switch/hub and so on."
17:54:46 <alise> Non sequitur of the year.
17:55:42 <fizzie> He doesn't want to play the power chord.
17:58:13 <alise> Bah, why doesn't QEMU have a -serial modem?
17:58:27 <alise> Of course, I'm already using that for the mouse, but I could fix that.
17:58:28 <ais523> alise: dpkg(1) is still useful
17:58:38 <alise> ais523: yes, but it's not what you're meant to actually use when you can use something higher-level
17:58:43 <ais523> when you're messing with packages below the package-manager level
17:58:46 <alise> like apt, basically, except aptitude is almost identical; but them's the rules
18:01:02 <fizzie> What would "-serial modem" do, exactly? If you mean networking, I'm sure you can already get it going with a -serial into a fifo and pppd on the other end. (Admittedly manually twiddling with pppd might not be your idea of fun.)
18:01:26 <alise> fizzie: It would fake a serial modem, using the same sort of network as -net user does.
18:01:40 <alise> Basically, it'd let you add a modem on OSes that fail at Ethernet and get your network through that.
18:02:29 <fizzie> You don't need administrative privileges to run something like slirp, it's just more work than a single command line flag.
18:03:26 <alise> fizzie: Does slirp turn my beautiful fake-Ethernet WLAN connection into a serial modem stream?
18:03:57 -!- distant_figure has quit (Quit: underflow).
18:04:06 <fizzie> Yes, why not? It's sort of a "use the system's sockets to fake a ppp/slip link into stdin/stdout" thing.
18:04:28 <alise> Oh. Okay then.
18:04:33 <fizzie> I have no idea if it works on anything modern, though. :p
18:04:43 <alise> You mean on host or guest?
18:04:48 <alise> Because dude, the guest is Windows NT Server 4.0 for MIPS.
18:04:52 <fizzie> Host.
18:05:19 <fizzie> It says it works on "Linux glibc and libc5 systems", and seeing libc5 there doesn't fill me with confidence. But there seems to be a "slirp" Ubuntu package, so I guess it's okay.
18:05:27 -!- cal153 has joined.
18:05:58 <alise> All you have to remember is this: Once you run Slirp, your shell
18:05:58 <alise> account now looks exactly like a SLIP/PPP account (with some limita‐
18:05:58 <alise> tions of course). Any documentation that you have telling you how to
18:05:58 <alise> connect to a SLIP/PPP account is completely valid for Slirp as well.
18:06:10 <alise> It's in BETA! "(c) 1995,1996|"
18:06:12 <alise> *1996"
18:06:23 <alise> Well, five zeroes works to exit.
18:06:28 <Gregor> alise: AFAICT, NT 4 Terminal Server was never released for MIPS.
18:06:34 <Gregor> That makes me, like, ultra-unhappy, omg.
18:06:42 <alise> You can also "disconnect" Slirp by typing five 1's (one's), with a 1
18:06:43 <alise> second gap between each. This will disconnect Slirp from your shell's
18:06:43 <alise> terminal and put Slirp in the background. Later, you can type
18:06:43 <alise> slirp -l 0
18:06:43 <alise> to "reconnect" Slirp again.
18:06:44 <alise> So complicated.
18:06:47 <alise> Gregor: Workstation FTW
18:06:55 <alise> Gregor: Also ha ha @ using irrelevant details to diminish my accomplishment
18:06:57 <alise> I OWN YOU
18:07:10 <alise> I'm going to COMPILE A HELLO WORLD now
18:09:35 * Gregor reappears
18:09:39 <Gregor> What do you mean "Workstation FTW"
18:09:46 <Gregor> Workstation can't do terminal services :P
18:09:51 <Gregor> So it's an irrelevant comparison.
18:10:09 <alise> Terminal services is for losers. Also I've forgotten what it does.
18:10:30 <alise> Sweet MSVC.EXE crashed
18:10:46 <alise> [[The memory could not be "read".]] -- result of using the debugger on it
18:10:47 <Gregor> alise: rdesktop server
18:10:55 <Gregor> alise: Yeah, I get that too. Use it from command line.
18:10:58 <alise> "Read", if you know what I mean.
18:11:01 <alise> Gregor: But it *worked before!*
18:11:11 <Gregor> alise: It *worked from the custom QEmu*?
18:11:17 <alise> It worked from my host QEMU.
18:11:20 <Gregor> Oh
18:11:21 <alise> Which I am using now.
18:11:24 <Gregor> Hm, weird :P
18:11:26 <alise> You only need the WINE one for installation.
18:11:33 <alise> Gregor: Admittedly this was immediately post-install, before any reboot.
18:11:35 <alise> I WANT MY IDE
18:11:57 <alise> OH
18:11:59 <alise> It may require the CD.
18:12:06 <Gregor> Anyway, I want my rdesktop server.
18:12:06 <Gregor> I want to give people graphical remote-login accounts :P
18:12:08 <Gregor> To a f***ing NT 4 MIPS box.
18:12:14 <alise> Yes, because that's perfectly secure.
18:12:28 <Gregor> alise: It is if it's in MIPS QEmu and you have a backup of the disk image.
18:12:29 <alise> Gregor: Also, f u c k i n g.
18:14:03 <alise> I have no retort.
18:14:17 <alise> Other than your mom.
18:14:51 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
18:15:02 <alise> FUCK the uncancellable CHKDSK.
18:19:06 <fizzie> Gregor: What sort of MIPS systems does NT run on, incidentally? I have a SGI Indy (MIPS R4k, sort of ARC-y firmware) here, but I don't suppose they ever ported it to *that*?
18:20:29 <alise> fizzie: I know what my display driver and "BIOS" setup are.
18:20:31 -!- Deewiant has quit (Quit: Viivan loppu.).
18:20:33 <alise> "Microsoft Jazz"
18:20:41 -!- Deewiant has joined.
18:20:41 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_(computer)
18:20:45 <alise> The Jazz computer architecture was a motherboard and chipset design originally developed by Microsoft for use in developing Windows NT. The design was eventually used as the basis for most MIPS-based Windows NT systems.
18:20:52 <alise> MIPS Magnum
18:20:56 <alise> is what we use with qemu
18:21:00 <alise> an evolution of Jazz
18:21:04 <alise> but a compatible one
18:21:12 <alise> [insert jazz puns]
18:21:16 <alise> There were also some MIPS systems designed to run Windows NT and comply with the ARC standard, but nevertheless were not based on the Jazz platform:
18:21:16 <alise> DeskStation Tyne
18:21:16 <alise> NeTpower FASTseries Falcon
18:21:16 <alise> ShaBLAMM! NiTro-VLB
18:21:16 <alise> Siemens-Nixdorf RM-200, RM-300 and RM-400
18:21:21 <alise> fizzie: Do you have a ShaBLAMM! workstation?
18:21:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Still running NT in MIPS on QEMU in WINE?
18:21:43 <fizzie> Well, no; with that sort of name, I'm sure you'd have already noticed.
18:25:02 -!- FireFly has joined.
18:26:28 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: No WINE.
18:26:30 <alise> You only need that for the install.
18:26:37 <alise> Gregor: Blast! Why does it crash so!
18:31:19 <alise> fizzie: slirp is freaking complex.
18:31:39 <alise> So basically I'm gonna start slirp, give QEMU the right port...
18:32:46 <fizzie> It's supposed to be used so that you start your PPP dialer thingie, tell it to do manual login, dial up to your shell provider, log in normally, then run slirp and let the PPP dialer start the networking.
18:33:39 <alise> what's the slirp port?
18:33:40 <fizzie> I don't quite know what qemu's -serial can do; at least it has that tcp console, and you could run a listening netcat with "slirp" as the command.
18:33:46 <alise> ha
18:33:50 <alise> so slirp works like a normal tcp stream, right?
18:34:14 <fizzie> No, slirp speaks to stdin/stdout. It's your task to get those streams of it into qemu as a serial port.
18:37:34 <alise> qemu has a tcp-as-serial thing
18:37:41 <alise> i just mean, ehird@dinky:~/NT4$ nc -l -p 9090 -e /usr/bin/slirp
18:37:43 <alise> should work, right?
18:37:58 <fizzie> Yes, maybe.
18:38:06 <fizzie> It sounds at least something that has a chance of working.
18:38:07 <alise> seems so
18:38:10 <alise> or at least
18:38:11 <alise> i can connect
18:38:19 <alise> and get no response as i fail to know how to be a slip/ppp kinda guy
18:38:57 <fizzie> I don't think I've ever configured NT 4 to use dialup, either.
18:39:19 <alise> i meant connecting to slirp with netcat :)
18:39:40 <fizzie> Ah, okay.
18:41:17 <fizzie> Slirp's pretty tricky, there's magical addresses in that you can telnet (after connecting) to configure it, and you can bind programs into ports of, and redirect incoming ports (the slirp app will then bind listening sockets for those and forward the connections) and so on.
18:41:19 <Phantom_Hoover> THINGS THAT ANNOY ME: people with names that should be spelt complicatedly, but aren't.
18:42:31 <alise> I am still convinced that "sins" is a valid pronunciation of "science".
18:42:37 <alise> sci - si
18:42:39 <alise> en - n
18:42:40 <alise> ce - s
18:42:45 <alise> Jesus died for your science.
18:42:51 <alise> Just pronounce it as "sins" in that sentence, it totally makes sense.
18:43:01 * Gregor reappears
18:43:06 <Gregor> What's this about fizzie having a MIPS workstation?
18:43:20 <alise> fizzie
18:43:25 <alise> i wanna buy some of your old gear
18:43:26 <alise> :P
18:43:27 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie
18:43:32 <Gregor> fizzie
18:43:34 <Gregor> I want you
18:43:37 <alise> fizzle
18:43:38 * Phantom_Hoover has a friend who had a Micro at one point.
18:43:41 <alise> Gregor: "DEEPLY."
18:43:49 <Phantom_Hoover> I still haven't forced him to give me it.
18:43:57 <alise> I'm pretty sure he's married. Sorry Greg.
18:44:32 <fizzie> Gregor: They got rid of all the SGI Indy workstations at the university, gave them away to students.
18:44:36 <Gregor> alise: :(
18:44:40 <alise> Gregor: I am configuring ~dial-up networking~ because -net nic -net user doesn't work.
18:44:43 <alise> Gregor: DON'T WORRY I'M NOT MARRIED
18:44:43 <Gregor> fizzie: D'awww, lucky bastard
18:45:04 <alise> Hmm, it's checking COM1.
18:45:07 <alise> That's parallel port, right?
18:45:41 <fizzie> Gregor: I think they've now given out the O2 machines too, which were altogether more scifiy-looking.
18:46:14 <alise> lawl, I need to configure slirp's baud rate.
18:46:23 <fizzie> (I mean, a nickname for the Indy is "Indigo without the 'go'"; they're not *so* impressive.)
18:46:33 <alise> 28800 sounds good!
18:52:04 <alise> IT'S FINDERATING MY MODEM
18:52:08 <alise> [autodetect SLIP/CSLIP, MTU 1500, MRU 1500, 115200 baud]
18:52:10 <alise> 115200 baud
18:53:43 <alise> Gregor: Haha wow, DHCP over parallel port modem.
18:54:07 <Gregor> alise: Brain axplote
18:54:42 <alise> Gregor: DHCP over parallel port modem over local TCP socket (slirp, over local networking) over local IP
18:54:48 <alise> Hells yeah
18:54:55 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:55:00 <alise> I wonder if I can set it to infinite baud.
18:56:46 * Phantom_Hoover wonders how many people have made Avatar 2.
18:57:58 <alise> Gregor: modem software crashes hell yeah
18:59:00 <alise> Review of Windows NT Server 4.0 for MIPS' networking:
18:59:03 <alise> It am stupid and I no like it
19:00:40 <fizzie> You go too far! No control nature!
19:02:13 <alise> No! Am connect computers!
19:02:24 <alise> [events of the Terminator films, ordered chronologically]
19:02:28 <alise> Me go too far!
19:03:23 <fizzie> A seminar organizer introduced a visiting lecturer from Intel to us by saying "these are the guys who are building Skynet".
19:03:34 <Phantom_Hoover> What about the stuff that contradicts the other stuff?
19:05:32 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: That also happens.
19:05:56 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: You just *know* someone's formulated a consistent timeline for the entire canon.
19:06:02 <alise> See: Memory Alpha.
19:06:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Heh.
19:06:13 <Phantom_Hoover> See: Discworld.
19:06:47 <ais523> alise: apparently, official Myst canon, handed down by the people in charge, is that the first three games contradict the rest of the series because they are, in-universe, video games rather than things that actually happened
19:07:01 <ais523> a lot of Myst fans are rather infuriated by the way its canon workd
19:07:03 <ais523> *works
19:07:28 <alise> ais523: that's easily fixed
19:07:36 <ais523> how?
19:08:03 <alise> the first three Myst games are simply projections -- like "Star Trek" is a projection of the world of Star Trek on to our world -- of the same universe projected inside the canon of the fourth game onwards.
19:08:22 <alise> That is, there are the universes O (original three Myst games), N (everything after that) and X (our universe).
19:08:25 <Vorpal> <Gregor> alise: It is if it's in MIPS QEmu and you have a backup of the disk image.<-- nice
19:08:30 <ais523> hmm, perhaps
19:08:34 <Vorpal> Gregor, can I have such a login?
19:08:36 <alise> The original three Myst games depict events in universe O.
19:08:47 <Gregor> Vorpal: I don't have Terminal Server D-8
19:08:49 <alise> There is a projection of O in world N. It is fictional.
19:08:52 <alise> There is a projection of O in world X. It is fictional.
19:08:57 <alise> There is a projection of N in world X. It is fictional.
19:09:11 <ais523> the funny thing is that I can could come up with a plausible-ish story to explain the apparent contradictions between 1-2-3 and 4, if it wasn't for the developers trying to shut all that sort of thing down
19:09:20 <Vorpal> <Gregor> ALISE AND VORPAL SITTING IN A TREE, <-- self balanced binary tree, powered by the waste heat from us arguing?
19:09:21 <alise> ais523: see? two perfect universe canons, without any matryoshka stuff
19:09:37 <ais523> alise: hmm...
19:09:38 <Vorpal> Gregor, oh
19:09:38 <alise> ais523: I have no idea what the actual story is :)
19:10:07 <ais523> it doesn't help that the first four games are all obviously in the same continuity
19:10:12 <alise> ais523: i mean, let's put it this way: would you rather believe that Star Trek is an incomplete "mini-universe" inside our own, rather than a separate universe that we have windows into? because that's ridiculous
19:10:26 <alise> if you accept the windows-onto-a-universe view, which is pretty much how canon works...
19:10:28 <Gregor> Vorpal: I could give you a sort of lame console account.
19:10:32 <alise> then there's no contradiction with there being two windows in different universes
19:10:42 <alise> like there are multiple projections of one universe in our own
19:10:53 <ais523> yep, but how can you reuse characters when you do that?
19:10:58 <ais523> do they climb through the window or something?
19:11:00 <alise> (e.g. a game and a film taking place simultaneously, but focusing on different elements)
19:11:01 <alise> ais523: cameos
19:11:06 <alise> sort of
19:11:13 <alise> the characters in the first three games are separate people as in the fourth game onwards
19:11:19 <ais523> alise: well, it isn't a cameo, it's a case of having the same main NPC...
19:11:20 <alise> they're just _based on_ the fourth game characters onwards
19:11:35 <alise> just like we might have, I don't know, Adventures of William Shatner: The Person Who Talks Slowly
19:11:38 <alise> where he kills a bear
19:11:41 <ais523> hmm
19:11:55 <alise> if the main character in Myst 4 references actually doing things in the first three games, that's an issue. does e?
19:11:56 <ais523> I doubt this theory is any more satisfactory to the fans than the existing ones...
19:12:10 <ais523> alise: I'm not certain, but I think so
19:12:29 <ais523> the games are full of journals, which often contain events from past ages
19:12:34 <alise> ais523: then you can say that the first three games are dramatised versions of the real events in the "new" universe
19:12:46 <alise> so the contradictions are artistic license in the first three games created inside the "new" universe
19:12:47 <ais523> well, that's basically what the canon did
19:12:52 <alise> OR, the main character is delusional :)
19:12:55 <ais523> stating they were video games based on the events
19:12:57 <alise> and based eir life on games
19:13:17 <ais523> hmm, delusional narrator is actually the method World of Warcraft apparently uses to fix all inconsistencies in its history
19:13:24 <alise> haha
19:13:32 <alise> WoW is hardly a canon-rich game, though :P
19:13:49 <alise> real canon is a bit tricky in MMORPGs, I'd say...
19:14:06 <alise> Gregor: do you have networking working?
19:14:15 <Gregor> alise: Yeah, I never had any issue with it.
19:14:16 <alise> networking working king ing ng g
19:14:19 <alise> Gregor: what switches?
19:14:25 <Gregor> alise: -net nic -net user
19:14:26 <alise> maybe i shouldn't have told qemu i have a serial mouse
19:14:30 <alise> Gregor: how do you connect?
19:14:34 <alise> what is the ethernet address set as?
19:14:40 <alise> perhaps it's an issue in my later, faster version
19:15:55 <alise> "The studio had suggested O. J. Simpson for the role of the Terminator, but Cameron did not feel that Simpson would be believable as a killer." -- Wikipedia, "The Terminator"
19:16:44 <Gregor> alise: 123456789abc
19:16:55 <alise> Gregor: and this persists across reboots? does time?
19:18:33 <Gregor> alise: Ethernet address does. Time does not. Not sure why.
19:18:49 <alise> Time... is not persistent.
19:18:54 <alise> It is only an illusion we use to create... breakfast.
19:18:58 <Gregor> :P
19:19:06 <alise> An oh so pleasant illusion. Breakfast.
19:19:10 * alise meditates
19:19:42 <alise> Gregor: How much RAM has your fake server got dood? Oh my god the chains on the login screen are amazing in fucked up colour mode
19:19:45 <alise> They're so green and yellow
19:20:02 <alise> Gregor: Dood, how do you type ctrl+alt+delete in WINE
19:20:03 <Gregor> alise: 128MB
19:20:09 <alise> ME TOO RAM BUDDIES *HI5*
19:20:16 <Gregor> alise: ctrl+alt+3, "sendkey ctrl-alt-delete"
19:20:25 <alise> Whoa, I had no idea that existed.
19:20:26 <Gregor> Then ctrl+alt+1
19:20:27 <alise> Blind mown.
19:20:52 <Gregor> alise: Why are you running it in wine again?
19:21:04 <alise> Because it doesn't do networking outside of WINE?
19:21:08 <alise> I assumed you were using it in WINE too.
19:21:11 <alise> If not, uhh
19:21:17 <alise> We have the same QEMU and it's only broken for one of us
19:21:41 <Gregor> No, I only used wine for the install.
19:21:48 <alise> Then ... what QEMU version are you using?
19:21:54 <Gregor> 0.12.5 IIRC
19:22:21 <alise> Me too. wat.
19:22:27 <alise> SHOW ME UR CMD LINES
19:22:33 <Gregor> Idonno why it lurves me and hates you :P
19:22:41 <alise> I'm too young.
19:22:47 <Gregor> Maybe because yours failed during install, it just isn't configured.
19:22:51 <Gregor> So you need to ... configure it.
19:25:03 <nooga> larva
19:25:29 <nooga> lava
19:25:39 <nooga> laa
19:25:40 <nooga> aa
19:25:41 <nooga> a
19:25:44 <nooga>
19:25:46 <alise> Gregor: Do elaborate.
19:26:34 <alise> Gregor: So you can telnet to google.com?
19:26:44 <alise> Whoa, now I can.
19:27:03 <alise> Gregor: lawl i hate you for doing this
19:27:04 <nooga> chalk & soot
19:28:22 <nooga> whoa
19:28:23 <nooga> http://lkml.org/lkml/2010/4/1/128
19:28:24 <nooga> CTO
19:31:22 <fizzie> ^choo larva
19:31:23 <fungot> larva arva rva va a
19:32:19 <alise> ^choo archaeologists
19:32:19 <fungot> archaeologists rchaeologists chaeologists haeologists aeologists eologists ologists logists ogists gists ists sts ts s
19:32:24 <alise> ^choo archaeology
19:32:24 <fungot> archaeology rchaeology chaeology haeology aeology eology ology logy ogy gy y
19:32:30 <alise> ^echo archaeology
19:32:30 <fungot> archaeology archaeology
19:32:32 <alise> hmm
19:32:33 <alise> ^show
19:32:33 <fungot> echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord
19:32:39 <alise> ^cho archaeology
19:32:39 <fungot> archaeologyrchaeologychaeologyhaeologyaeologyeologyologylogyogygyy
19:32:44 <alise> ^scramble archaeologyrchaeologychaeologyhaeologyaeologyeologyologylogyogygyy
19:32:44 <fungot> acaooycaooyhelghelgaooyooylglgoyyyggyoyooglegleyooayooacglehrglehr
19:32:48 <alise> ^scramble archaeology rchaeology chaeology haeology aeology eology ology logy ogy gy y
19:32:48 <fungot> acaooyrhelg helg aooyaooyelg lg oyoyg yy g glyooyoo gle glehyooacyooac glehr
19:32:52 <alise> no apparent pattern
19:33:14 <nooga> tr to get doppler effect
19:33:19 <alise> ^choo We have killed all the children, sir.
19:33:19 <fungot> We have killed all the children, sir. e have killed all the children, sir. have killed all the children, sir. have killed all the children, sir. ave killed all the children, sir. ve killed all the children, ...
19:33:27 <alise> ^scramble We have killed all the children, sir. e have killed all the children, sir. have killed all the children, sir. have killed all the children, sir. ave killed all the children, sir. ve killed all the children,
19:33:27 <fungot> W aekle l h hlrn i.ehv ildaltecide,sr hv ildaltecide,sr aekle l h hlrn i.aekle l h hlrn i.v ildaltecide,nrlh h l elke rs,edicetladli v rs,edicetladli vh.i nrlh h l elkea .i nrlh h l elkea rs,edicetladli vhe
19:33:35 <alise> ^choo we have killed all the children sir
19:33:35 <fungot> we have killed all the children sir e have killed all the children sir have killed all the children sir have killed all the children sir ave killed all the children sir ve killed all the children sir e kill ...
19:33:40 <alise> ^scramble we have killed all the children sir e have killed all the children sir have killed all the children sir have killed all the children sir ave killed all the children sir ve killed all the children sir e kill
19:33:40 <fungot> w aekle l h hlrnsrehv ildaltecide i hv ildaltecide i aekle l h hlrnsraekle l h hlrnsrv ildaltecide i illkersnrlh h l elke i edicetladli v i edicetladli vhrsnrlh h l elkea rsnrlh h l elkea i edicetladli vhe
19:34:15 <nooga> arabic?
19:34:41 <alise> Gregor: Somehow, you have made my network work.
19:34:52 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, you killed all the children?
19:34:53 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: e993 i gave up long ago intercal-72 c-intercal clc-intercal j-intercal no version 0.28+ no no circumstances in which this done will affect which i/ o
19:34:58 <alise> Gregor: Link me to RawIRC, dood.
19:34:59 <Phantom_Hoover> That's a new one.
19:35:05 <Phantom_Hoover> ^style
19:35:05 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic* irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
19:35:12 <alise> Google in IE infiniloops :)
19:35:24 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: I recognised it
19:35:26 <ais523> *recognised
19:35:41 <alise> microsoft.com loads
19:35:44 <alise> in IE 2
19:35:47 <alise> today is a good day
19:35:57 <alise> the layout even half-works
19:36:03 <ais523> now I'm vaguely wondering if there are any IE 2 exploits still out there
19:36:12 <alise> it's actually laid out pretty damn well
19:36:17 <alise> even a horizontal menu bar
19:36:24 <alise> and the rest is linearly organised
19:37:42 <alise> Gregor: RawIRC, dood
19:37:42 <ais523> could be that microsoft.com is only tested in IE 2...
19:37:59 <alise> Gregor: Your website is Internet Explorer 2 Compatible(TM)
19:38:22 -!- olsner has joined.
19:39:11 <pikhq> ais523: I doubt there's any IE 2 exploits for NT 4 on... MIPS? PowerPC?
19:39:27 <ais523> pikhq: you'd be surprised
19:39:42 <ais523> meanwhile, I'm vaguely wondering at how Twitter managed to get exploited twice in a week
19:39:45 <pikhq> Well, rather, I doubt there's any *in the wild*.
19:39:48 <ais523> it was XSS the first time, not sure what it was second time
19:40:29 <alise> MIPS
19:40:44 <alise> Alpha is the coolest, having a dynamic x86 -> Alpha translation that actually cached it on disk
19:40:46 <alise> and that ran Office perfectly
19:41:04 <alise> so you'd run x86 Office the first time, it'd do some compiling, close it, reopen, opens instantly
19:41:05 <olsner> woah, that is cool
19:41:07 <alise> because it saved the translation
19:41:17 <alise> product from DEC
19:41:35 <alise> "One of the first thing you’ll find out, is that the Dec Alpha was popular non intel machine to run because of FX!32. This program from Dec, allowed for dynamic translation of 32bit binaries on the Alpha. So that you could run Office 97 for the i386 on the Alpha. And on the 2nd run it was effectively a native copy as it had been translated at that point."
19:42:20 <pikhq> That's actually pretty awesome.
19:43:06 <alise> now feed it self-modifying code >:)
19:43:11 <Vorpal> brb, restarting router due to it getting borked internal state
19:43:19 <alise> pikhq: link me to rawirc plz
19:43:34 <pikhq> alise: Donothaz
19:43:40 <alise> pikhq: YOU ARE WORST PERSON
19:44:03 <alise> WILL USE http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/install/WindowsNT4.0-MIPS/irc/ INSTEAD
19:45:01 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
19:45:10 <alise> /connect irc.freenode.net -> it connects to DALnet
19:46:30 -!- alips has joined.
19:46:43 <alips> MMY Nmf
19:46:48 <alips> wow i can't see the messages i type
19:46:50 <alips> that's impressive
19:47:07 <alips> abc
19:47:14 <alips> abc
19:47:30 <alips> Anyone want to teach me MFC programming circa NT 4? :P
19:47:35 <olsner> alips: you are not invisible and we can see you fine, just so you know :P
19:47:42 <alips> YOU CANNOT SEE ME
19:47:48 <alips> nbecbecause i fcannot see myself
19:47:54 <alise> cool, backspace doesn't work
19:47:56 <alips> teeSst
19:47:58 <olsner> haha
19:48:01 <alise> nor does delete
19:48:10 <olsner> now do the MFC and build you an IRC client
19:48:10 <alips> <CTCP>
19:48:17 * alips and ^A shows as a smiley face
19:48:29 <alips> olsner teach me he magic ways
19:48:32 <alips> the magic ways
19:48:43 <alips> i have a half-broken copy of visual c++ and a wild imagination
19:48:48 -!- Vorpal has joined.
19:48:50 <olsner> it's not magic, just MFC
19:48:52 <alips> version 2
19:48:58 <olsner> VC++ 2.0?
19:48:59 <alips> lol @Vorpal] \esoteric@
19:49:05 <alise> *"Vorpal] #esoteric"
19:49:08 <alise> it's totally a message
19:49:09 <alise> olsner: yep
19:49:14 <alise> also wild imagination version 2.0
19:49:15 <olsner> does that even come with MFC?
19:49:18 <alise> olsner: apparently
19:49:20 <alise> (C) 1994
19:49:32 <alise> olsner: feel free to link me to a better toolchain compiled for mips :D
19:49:49 <olsner> hmm... so fire up the application wizard and point-and-click yourself a UI?
19:49:52 <alips> I'm RISCin' my life out here!!
19:49:58 <alise> olsner: hell, i'd be fine with the console
19:50:02 <alise> dunno if it has a GUI designer :P
19:50:05 <alise> the ide's broken atm
19:50:07 <alise> gonna try reinstalling
19:50:13 <alips> AAAAAAAAAAA
19:50:15 -!- alips has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:50:32 <alise> woot, VC++ 2.0 doesn't have an uninstall entry
19:50:34 <alise> hope it has an uninstall program
19:51:02 <olsner> I really like raw Win32 better than MFC though, it's at least smaller/cleaner although you'll have to do more yourself
19:51:23 <Gregor> I don't think I've ever seen the word "clean" used to describe the Windows API
19:51:50 <olsner> do take note that I'm comparing it with MFC :)
19:52:09 <alise> olsner: i don't mind how ugly it is, as long as i have to write very little
19:52:27 <alise> ideally i'd bang cygwin/X on this
19:52:32 <alise> but SOMEONE (Gregor) hasn't compiled it yet
19:52:34 <olsner> maybe you can get QT or something sensible working
19:52:54 -!- Wamanuz has joined.
19:53:00 <alise> olsner: pfft
19:53:09 <alise> olsner: not only is it effectively Windows 95 plus *less compatibility*
19:53:12 <alise> it's freakin' MIPS
19:53:18 <alise> and probably lacks an API or two
19:53:28 -!- myndzi\ has joined.
19:53:28 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
19:53:52 <Gregor> I sincerely doubt that its API has any appreciable holes relative to NT4 on any other platform.
19:54:07 <pikhq> Gregor: Missing DirectX.
19:54:22 <Gregor> "relative to NT4 on any other platform."
19:54:36 <pikhq> I thought x86 NT4 could have DirectX?
19:54:47 <Gregor> I mean in the basic system, not as an addon.
19:54:51 <pikhq> Ah.
19:54:55 <pikhq> Then yeah.
19:55:06 <Gregor> Obviously there are lots of libraries available for x86 that aren't available for MIPS :P
19:55:08 <alise> Fair enough.
19:55:12 <alise> Gregor: So get compiling.
19:55:17 <Phantom_Hoover> DAMN YOU HARRY HILL
19:55:20 <Gregor> Get your face compiling.
19:55:26 <alise> 1.5 ofc not 1.7
19:55:33 <olsner> Phantom_Hoover: damn *you* harry hill
19:55:44 <Gregor> Harry Hill 1.5?
19:55:48 <Phantom_Hoover> I cannot hear the words "which is better" in any form without wanting to add "There's only one way to find out! FIGHT!"
19:56:55 <alise> OBTAIN IMMEDIATELY
19:57:27 <olsner> hmm, feels like I'm becoming tired and weird after too much being awake... too bad I have to finish the dexter episode first
19:57:35 <fizzie> Gregor: NT 4.0 had DirectX 2.0a included in it as a system component. (No Direct3D, though.) That's something that might be missing from the MIPS port, who knows.
19:57:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Windows is now the best OS ever.
19:58:12 <alise> olsner: dexter the american tv series thing?
19:58:31 <fizzie> alise: Does the kitten interact with esheep, though?
19:58:32 <olsner> alise: yep, the one
19:58:41 <alise> a friend is watching it right now x_x
19:58:45 <alise> olsner: are you sure you're not her?
19:59:04 <alise> fizzie: Unfortunately, nobody is cool enough to compile esheep for MIPS.
19:59:05 <olsner> oh, I had one of those desk-pets back in the windows 3.1 days
19:59:30 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neko_(computer_program)
19:59:55 <fizzie> alise: Hey, I had that cat.
20:00:12 <alise> Now you can have it on MIPS!
20:00:16 <alise> Your life is instantly better!
20:00:17 <fizzie> (Don't rememer in what. It seems very widely ported.)
20:00:34 <olsner> alise: if I've merely been hallucinating being me for all my life and is really your friend, then yes
20:01:06 <olsner> alise: am I? have I? really? you think that's reasonable?
20:01:35 <alise> olsner: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
20:01:49 <alise> Welcome to your new life; you will shortly be unplugged from your olsner-matrix into your new my-friend-matrix.
20:02:02 <olsner> I hope I'll like it
20:02:04 <alise> WHZIYWOOMPOKTP
20:02:09 <alise> (That's the sound effect.)
20:02:16 <alise> RIP olsner 1601--2010
20:02:33 <Phantom_Hoover> olsner, you're actually an initial state and an algorith,
20:02:37 <Phantom_Hoover> *algorithm
20:02:45 <olsner> alise: ooh, born at the very start of the windows epoch?
20:02:48 <alise> 2 is an initial state of 2 and an algorithm of f(x) = x
20:02:53 <fizzie> alise: I think that Indy has fsn -- of Jurassic Park fame -- running in Irix on that Indy, by the way.
20:02:59 <alise> olsner: so *that's* why NT Server 4 for MIPS thinks it's January 1601 at 12 am.
20:03:07 <alise> fizzie: Sweet.
20:03:16 <fizzie> I think that sentence has some unnecessary repetition going on, also.
20:03:17 <alise> fizzie: "I think that Indy has fsn running in Irix on that Indy"
20:03:27 <alise> I think that sentence has some unnecessary repetition going on in that sentence, also.
20:03:40 <olsner> alise: did you not possess this piece of information until now?
20:03:42 <fizzie> I was actually mangling it into something more coherent and mistakenly \r'd.
20:03:53 <alise> olsner: indeed not. now stop existing.
20:04:10 <olsner> all in due time... all in due time
20:04:42 <alise> I think VC++ 2 is uninstalled just by deleting the directory.
20:04:47 <alise> Suspiciously overly simple.
20:05:01 <olsner> what, that can't possibly not break your system completely
20:06:31 <alise> [KABOOM]
20:06:53 <alise> The readme had no information on uninstalling, it has no obvious uninstallation program and it left no Add/Remove Programs entry.
20:07:03 <alise> It is probably Microsoft's intention that it never be uninstalled at all.
20:07:06 <olsner> some things are not uninstallable
20:07:09 <alise> :D
20:07:21 <alise> "MSVC++ 2.0 has now permanently welded itself to your kernel."
20:07:39 <olsner> a bit like the metamorphosis installer that transforms an NT Server into a Domain Controller
20:08:23 <olsner> dunno if NT4 did that or if it started with w2k though
20:08:48 <alise> olsner: It's a domain controller by default here, dood.
20:08:52 <alise> Install-time option.
20:09:40 <olsner> oh, that makes heaps more sense than this command-line program you ran on Win2k
20:11:37 <fizzie> The cursed +2 Visual C compiler welds itself to your system!
20:11:42 <nooga> doodoodoodood
20:11:50 <nooga> ^cho doodoodoodood
20:11:50 <fungot> doodoodoodoodoodoodoodoododoodoodooddoodoodoodoodoodoododoodooddoodoodoodoododooddoodoododd
20:12:21 <alise> Why is it so slow right now.
20:12:22 <alise> ^cho dood
20:12:23 <fungot> doodoododd
20:12:26 <olsner> welcome to the Visual Studio/Windows NT 2.0/4.0 kernel/compiler
20:12:30 <alise> ^scramble doodoododd
20:12:30 <fungot> doodddoodo
20:12:39 <alise> ^scramble doodddoodo
20:12:39 <fungot> dododooddo
20:12:42 <alise> ^scramble dododooddo
20:12:43 <fungot> dddododooo
20:12:46 <alise> ^scramble dddododooo
20:12:46 <fungot> ddddoooood
20:12:51 <alise> ^scramble ddddoooood
20:12:51 <fungot> ddooodoodd
20:12:55 <alise> ^scramble ddooodoodd
20:12:55 <fungot> doooddodod
20:13:01 <alise> ^scramble doooddodod
20:13:02 <fungot> dodoodddoo
20:13:03 <olsner> ^scramble alisealisealise
20:13:03 <fungot> aielsaiesleiasl
20:13:05 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:13:06 <alise> ^scramble dodoodddoo
20:13:07 <fungot> ddodooddoo
20:13:09 <alise> ^scramble ddodooddoo
20:13:09 <fungot> doodoododd
20:13:11 <alise> Yay
20:13:13 <alise> A cycle!
20:13:26 <alise> what did we determine was the cycle length again? it was very trivial, n or 2n or something
20:13:30 <alise> for length of string
20:13:31 <alise> maybe n/2? no
20:13:35 <alise> not 2n either
20:13:36 <alise> hm
20:13:37 <oerjan> permutations of finite sets usually have cycles, alise
20:13:37 <alise> probably n
20:13:39 <alise> *hmm
20:13:42 <alise> oerjan: shaddap
20:13:48 <alise> now figure out the cycle length again (it's trivial, iirc)
20:14:04 <oerjan> alise: i wrote a haskell program for it iirc
20:14:12 <alise> (to scramble something, take two symbols from the head, place them on the output, then move in the middle and continue)
20:14:16 <alise> *move to the middle and continue)
20:14:20 <olsner> oh, all the bot spam reminds me... did I ever mention my irc-bot in sed? that was pretty fun
20:14:58 <alise> heh, nope
20:15:01 <alise> using nc -e, presumably?
20:15:05 <alise> or equivalent
20:15:11 <olsner> yes, equivalent
20:15:25 <olsner> my nc didn't have -e so I installed socat
20:15:41 <pikhq> Candidate for governor of Oregon feels that waitresses make too much.
20:15:52 <pikhq> Keep in mind that they generally make below minimum wage.
20:16:42 <alise> olsner: Hobbit netcat with -DGAPING_SECURITY_HOLE ftw :P
20:18:09 <pikhq> (any job in the US with a reasonable expectation of tips being paid can be paid below minimum wage)
20:18:26 <oerjan> Main> map scrseq [1..50]
20:18:26 <oerjan> [1,2,3,3,5,6,4,4,9,6,11,10,9,14,5,5,12,18,12,10,7,12,23,21,8,26,20,9,29,30,6,6,33,22,35,9,20,30,39,27,41,8,28,11,12,10,36,24,15,50] :: [Int]
20:18:57 <alise> oerjan: right, so completely random then
20:19:18 <oerjan> alise: at least i don't recall if we found a formula
20:19:40 <alise> pretty sure we did and then you said "oh that's fucking trivial you stupid moronic fuckface"
20:19:44 <alise> maybe with a few less expletives
20:19:48 <alise> completely random was a joke btw
20:20:01 <alise> what is scrseq n for a given n?
20:20:15 <oerjan> alise: oh we probably looked it up on OEIS
20:20:25 <alise> lol
20:20:39 -!- cheater99 has joined.
20:20:39 <alise> Least number m such that 2^m = +- 1 mod 2n + 1.
20:20:46 <alise> BUT OF COURSE
20:21:07 <alise> log_2(A160657(n) + 2) - 1 where A160657 is The period of a 2-by-4n rectangular oscillator in the 2x2 (B36/S125) Life-like cellular automaton.
20:21:09 <alise> which is interesting
20:21:13 <alise> although probably a coincidence
20:22:16 <oerjan> a003558 i guess, that's the name of the next function in the file
20:22:53 <Phantom_Hoover> What's scrseq?
20:23:03 <alise> yeah i found it
20:23:27 <oerjan> a function i wrote a long time ago for finding the cycle lengths of the scramble command
20:23:49 -!- Harpyon has joined.
20:23:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:23:58 <oerjan> scrseq n = pertest srmlebac [1..n+1]
20:24:26 <oerjan> (the definition of the functions pertest and srmlebac are left as an exercise ;D)
20:26:09 * Phantom_Hoover → biology
20:26:52 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: at 8:26 pm?
20:27:06 <alise> ^srmlebac srmlebac
20:27:06 <fungot> smeacblr
20:27:07 <nooga> oerjan: :D
20:27:08 <alise> ^srmlebac smeacblr
20:27:08 <fungot> seclrbam
20:27:11 <alise> ^srmlebac seclrbam
20:27:11 <fungot> scramble
20:27:13 <alise> (secular bam)
20:27:21 <Gregor> pikhq: Dudley Do-Wrong you mean?
20:27:27 <olsner> (peculiar ham)
20:27:29 <alise> MATHEMATICA
20:27:29 <alise> Suborder[a_, n_] := If[n>1 && GCD[a, n]==1, Min[MultiplicativeOrder[a, n, {-1, 1}]], 0]; Table[Suborder[2, 2n+1], {n, 0, 100}] - T. D. Noe (noe(AT)sspectra.com), Aug 02 2006
20:27:34 <alise> Sure wish there was a nicer way of writing that.
20:27:48 <alise> oerjan: so wait, i don't get it, what is the ordering of that sequence?
20:27:50 <nooga> oerjan: you sounded like an acedemic teacher for a moment
20:27:52 <alise> <oerjan> [1,2,3,3,5,6,4,4,9,6,11,10,9,14,5,5,12,18,12,10,7,12,23,21,8,26,20,9,29,30,6,6,33,22,35,9,20,30,39,27,41,8,28,11,12,10,36,24,15,50] :: [Int]
20:29:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Biology != sleep.
20:29:49 <Phantom_Hoover> It is the study of living organisms.
20:30:55 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: i never said sleep :P
20:31:06 <alise> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHqh6EpkpRs an interesting, musical look into the mind of an anti-vaccination crazy
20:32:57 <oerjan> pikhq: you might find it interesting that norway has no minimum wage law (afair), we just have very strong unions. there is however a law against "social dumping" which allows the government in some cases to declare that the union wage agreements must be applied to non-unionized workers/companies in the same field
20:33:34 <oerjan> (/me isn't sure of the english terminology for all this)
20:33:50 <pikhq> oerjan: All correct terminology, it seems.
20:34:08 <pikhq> oerjan: BTW, unlike in Norway, a minimum wage is *very* necessary.
20:34:27 <pikhq> Employers here seem to think that they're hiring slaves, except with money being traded.
20:34:35 <pikhq> alise: OH NOES IT HAS A LIVE VIRUS!
20:35:13 <Gregor> Purdue has two poultry science buildings.
20:35:28 <alise> pikhq: EVERYTHING IS OK
20:35:49 <oerjan> the law has been applied in particular to construction workers, because there are a number of firms that _try_ to treat polish (mainly) immigrant workers like that
20:36:00 <alise> THAT'S RARCISM
20:36:08 <Gregor> alise: Eh, they're pollacks.
20:36:12 <pikhq> oerjan: $2.50/hr is not-unusual for waiters.
20:36:17 <Gregor> They're like, 3/5ths of a person.
20:36:21 <alise> That video is utter pollacks.
20:36:26 <alise> HYUK HYUK
20:36:42 <oerjan> it's not that they're polish really, it's that they're not norwegian and so has a harder time finding out how to get their rights
20:36:43 <alise> Gregor: And that's 1/5th less than black people using AMERICAN MATHEMATICS!
20:36:50 <alise> oerjan: *have
20:36:55 <alise> do your languages not have a different term for has/have?
20:37:02 <alise> admittedly Vorpal is much, much worse about it, but then he's stupid
20:37:03 <oerjan> so unscrupulous employers abuse them
20:37:20 <Gregor> alise: No.
20:37:28 <oerjan> alise: norwegian has no person or number ending on verbs
20:37:31 <Gregor> alise: They're 3/5ths too, hence why I used that fraction :P
20:37:50 <alise> Oh, right.
20:37:59 <oerjan> (neither does swedish, although they seem to have lost it somewhat later than us i think)
20:38:01 <alise> I forgot; thought it was 3/4ths.
20:38:01 <alise> Well
20:38:12 <alise> oerjan: then Vorpal has no excuse :D
20:38:34 <olsner> oerjan: that was dropped long before my time at least
20:38:44 <alise> olsner: you're like 20 :P
20:38:50 <oerjan> alise: um how so? i think in swedish it's mainly for poetry or something
20:38:50 <alise> Gregor: Wow, it's going to install 173.74 megabytes.
20:39:03 <alise> Gregor: I had no idea VC++ 2.0 was so big. :-P
20:39:08 <alise> Although that's the full installation, so.
20:39:15 <alise> (Not even a standard option; you have to custom-configure it.)
20:39:20 <alise> oerjan: he gets has/have wrong all the time in English
20:39:21 <alise> whereas you don't
20:39:24 <Gregor> pikhq: BTW, in MOST states, the state minimum wage overrides the federal minimum wage regulation that allows waiters to earn less than minimum wage pre-tip. Oregon is such a state.
20:39:27 <alise> and you lost it earlier than them
20:39:30 <alise> so should be worse at it
20:39:37 <alise> even though that makes no sense, but
20:39:51 <oerjan> <alise> oerjan: so wait, i don't get it, what is the ordering of that sequence? <-- what?
20:39:53 <alise> Gregor: Dayum, I was hoping you were gonna say that states can set the minimum wage even lower.
20:39:57 <alise> That would be hilarious.
20:40:00 <alise> oerjan: of the scrambling sequence
20:40:03 <alise> the cycle length
20:40:04 <alise> what order is it
20:40:05 <alise> as in
20:40:12 <alise> oh
20:40:15 <alise> i guess it's length 1, length 2, ...
20:40:17 <Gregor> pikhq: Also, Oregon minimum wage rises automatically with inflation.
20:40:19 <alise> i guess i'm a bit stupid, also
20:40:33 <oerjan> nooga: well "left as an exercise" is of course academic, and can also be used as a joke when you're too lazy to write things out
20:40:46 <alise> groan, it installs into D:\WINNT\SYTSEM32
20:40:54 <alise> which is probably somehow the source of the crashing
20:41:27 <Gregor> alise: wtf?
20:41:35 <Gregor> alise: Installs what there?
20:41:41 <alise> Gregor: it has "System Files: D:\WINNT\SYSTEM32" in the directory selection thing, uneditable
20:41:44 <alise> in the where to install to box
20:41:48 <alise> implying that it installs some stuff into there
20:41:53 <alise> probably DLLs or LIBs or whatever
20:42:00 <Gregor> Sure, but DLLs should be fine :P
20:42:07 <olsner> alise: enjoy your VS symbiont
20:42:08 <alise> except that it crashes only after the first reboot
20:42:11 <alise> which makes no sense at all
20:42:14 <alise> so i am abandoning all logic
20:42:21 <Gregor> alise: It crashed immediately after install for me.
20:42:22 <alise> wait maybe it wants a valid product ID :-D
20:42:29 <nooga> oerjan: i understand, but usually teachers are lazy
20:42:30 <oerjan> Gregor: my impression is that polish people are generally looked at favorably in norway (unlike the roma(nians))
20:42:34 <olsner> or whatever you're installing (didn't you say you had VS installed already?)
20:42:51 <Gregor> oerjan: But ... but ... POLLACKS
20:42:51 <alise> Gregor: can I set the organisation to "Greg & Elliott Research Foundation"?
20:42:56 <alise> olsner: There's no VS this far back, noob :P
20:42:57 * Phantom_Hoover notes that those antivax people in the song use Comic Sans on their posters.
20:43:02 <nooga> what? :F
20:43:04 <Gregor> alise: My name is not Greg.
20:43:07 <oerjan> (the fact that norway has the lowest unemployment in europe probably helps)
20:43:09 <alise> Gregor: It is now, though.
20:43:10 <Gregor> alise: Also, GERF is a terrible name.
20:43:16 <alise> GERF X-D
20:43:34 <Gregor> It sounds like the wretching sound you make when throwing up spicy food.
20:44:00 <nooga> pollacks can be annoying
20:44:08 <olsner> alise: VC++ then? which is exactly what I mean when I say VS, usually
20:44:18 <nooga> good i'm not one of them ;]
20:44:24 <Gregor> olsner: VISUAL C SHARP DOT NET
20:44:44 <alise> Gregor: Fine, "Fantabtastic Ontological Richards New Intelligent Coding Apex Technologies Indicating Noodly Greatness"
20:45:28 <oerjan> alise: scrseq n tests the iterations of the list [1..n+1], so it starts with length 2
20:45:30 <olsner> Gregor: because NT is short for dotNeT
20:45:35 <Gregor> It will be the company underlying the Advanced Nonlinear Audio LIbrary and Sound Exchange for X11
20:46:30 <oerjan> alise: my has/have deteriorates when i am writing in a hurry, of course (like now when i'm far up in the backscroll)
20:46:46 <alise> Gregor: And the Fabricator Upsilon Cooking Kit, a miniature CPU fabricator that you can fit on to a large, sturdy table, with an eccentric, Victorian-style manual.
20:47:14 <nooga> cool
20:47:52 <nooga> laneialanamalanalamaianamama
20:48:03 <alise> And the "Pontificating Only Loquaciously And Never Dying", a miniature Furby-style Jesus.
20:48:10 <alise> nooga is the target market.
20:48:21 <nooga> f... you ;d
20:48:37 <alise> nooga: i am not entirely sure you are not missing the joke entirely
20:48:44 <nooga> even my grandma wouldn't buy that
20:48:50 <alise> nooga: fail
20:49:17 <nooga> alise: it's POLAND, i know ;p
20:49:24 <alise> \o/
20:50:12 <alise> ANALSEX, FUCK and POLAND, excellent products -- and all from FORNICATING, Incoproated. Your first choice for all kinds of shit.
20:50:50 <alise> Gregor: You broke something horribly.
20:51:02 <alise> I'm reinstalling. Maybe.
20:51:35 <Gregor> What ever happened to Furby.
20:51:44 <Gregor> alise: You should have kept backups of the hard disk and nvram.
20:51:55 <Gregor> mv c.img c000.img && qemu-img create -f qcow2 -b c000.img c.img
20:51:57 <alise> Gregor: You should never have got her pregnant.
20:51:58 <Gregor> what whaaaaaaaaaaaat
20:52:15 <alise> `addquote <alise> Gregor: You should never have got her pregnant. <Gregor> what whaaaaaaaaaaaat
20:52:18 <pikhq> Gregor: Still bullshit.
20:52:39 <alise> ^Cehird@dinky:~/NT4$ ls
20:52:39 <alise> ARCINST.EXE openbios-ppc-1.0+svn505 README.1ST
20:52:39 <alise> CD openbios-ppc_1.0+svn505.orig.tar.gz RISCOS.RAW
20:52:39 <alise> CONFTEST.EXE openbios-ppc_1.0+svn640-1_all.deb SETUP.EXE
20:52:41 <alise> foo pass setup.zip
20:52:43 <alise> mips.disk ppc_rom.bin shit
20:52:45 <alise> mipsel_bios.bin qemu-0.10.6 simulator.jar
20:52:47 <alise> mol- qemu-0.10.6.tar.gz WindowsNT4Server.iso
20:52:49 <alise> msvc20-mips.iso qemu-0.12.5
20:52:51 <alise> nvram qemu-0.12.5.tar.gz
20:52:53 <alise> SO MUCH CRAP
20:53:08 <Gregor> pikhq: It is still BS for a gubernatorial candidate to say that, yes, but he has relevant context.
20:53:48 <alise> "qemu-img create -f qcow2 -b c000.img c.img" ;; what does *this* do?
20:54:02 <Gregor> alise: Creates a COW image with c000.img as the backing image.
20:54:03 <HackEgo> 228|<alise> Gregor: You should never have got her pregnant. <Gregor> what whaaaaaaaaaaaat
20:54:31 <Gregor> pikhq: However, Oregon has the second-highest minimum wage in the country, only behind Washington (and only by 15 cents, though both grow by inflation so the gap will only get larger)
20:55:13 <alise> Gregor: Backing image?
20:56:05 <pikhq> Gregor: Aaand is it still a livable wage?
20:56:20 <pikhq> alise: It's copy on write, BTW.
20:57:05 <Vorpal> huh, apperently .smf is midi and actually more "correct" than the normal .mid
20:58:13 <Vorpal> <alise> do your languages not have a different term for has/have? <---- no why would they?
20:58:27 <Vorpal> <oerjan> (neither does swedish, although they seem to have lost it somewhat later than us i think) <-- we used to have that?
20:59:25 <Vorpal> alise, that strawman was so bad it was starwars-holiday-special-bad
20:59:44 <pikhq> So's your mother.
20:59:59 <Vorpal> hah
21:00:04 <alise> oh come on, you're at the very least intensely anti-american
21:00:28 <pikhq> alise: So're many Americans. Your point? :P
21:00:51 <alise> pikhq: at least they complain about things that *matter*
21:01:10 <alise> Vorpal just whines whenever anyone says "United States" and then doesn't also say a European country
21:01:20 <alise> because Sweden is as big and important as the United States of America
21:01:21 <Vorpal> that was at most anti-English, not anti-American specifically...
21:01:31 <alise> i'm just trying to piss you off
21:01:34 <alise> tbh
21:01:46 <pikhq> alise: Mmm, true.
21:02:31 <Gregor> alise: I'm not at home, check the logs.
21:02:37 <alise> Gregor: OKAY DUDEY DUDE
21:02:43 <Gregor> Ohwait I PMed it so it's not in the logs :P
21:02:46 <Gregor> Check your own log.
21:02:56 <alise> check your unborn mother's log
21:03:37 <alise> And I quote, "FUCKING 28997-OEM-0025957-49297"
21:03:44 <alise> [Gregor gets sent to jail]
21:03:47 <Vorpal> alise, you always are
21:03:47 <alise> *gaol
21:03:54 * pikhq hates Monkey audio
21:03:55 <alise> Vorpal: in my defence, it always works
21:03:57 <alise> pikhq: why?
21:04:00 <alise> apart from it sucking
21:04:00 <Vorpal> alise, since I was not whining at all it didn't really work
21:04:02 <pikhq> Erm. Monkey's audio
21:04:09 <pikhq> alise: "Monkey's Audio source can be included in GPL and open-source software, although Monkey's Audio itself will not be subjected to external licensing requirements or other viral source restrictions."
21:04:13 <pikhq> The fail is strong with this one.
21:04:17 <alise> oh yeah that
21:04:19 <Vorpal> alise, no, it did not change basic pissedoffness against you
21:04:28 <Vorpal> alise, I'm *always* pissed off with you
21:04:28 <pikhq> Also, some idiot made a torrent using .ape files instead of FLAC
21:04:31 <Vorpal> :P
21:04:45 <alise> Gregor: is 1024 concurrent connections really enough?
21:04:49 <alise> Gregor: I suggest 8096.
21:05:02 <Vorpal> pikhq, .ape?
21:05:31 <Vorpal> what a horrible pun
21:06:05 <pikhq> What moron uses Monkey's Audio for actual distribution, anyways?
21:06:31 <Vorpal> pikhq, apart from the legal issues, is it actually any good?
21:07:08 <alise> pretty sure it predates flac
21:07:23 <Gregor> alise: Fantastic since we can't even get ONE inbound connection usefully :P
21:07:27 <Vorpal> from what I remember wavpack is pretty good
21:07:44 <Vorpal> Gregor, connections for what?
21:07:52 <Gregor> Vorpal: NT 4 MIPS
21:07:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Potentially interesting idea: a conservative CA.
21:07:57 <Vorpal> ah
21:07:58 <alise> *NT Server 4 MIPS
21:08:05 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: it rejects evolution
21:08:17 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, no, it would make it more viable.
21:08:22 <pikhq> Vorpal: It's got a slightly higher compression ratio, and is much more expensive to decode.
21:08:33 <Phantom_Hoover> If all state transitions maintain cell counts, then organisms need food.
21:08:34 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: That's why I made my GC non-conservative.
21:08:39 <oerjan> Vorpal: example from swedish bible: 2 Mosebok 1:1 Och dessa äro namnen på Israels söner, som kommo till Egypten
21:08:41 <Vorpal> pikhq, hm
21:08:44 <pikhq> Vorpal: Specifically: decoding and encoding take the same time.
21:08:45 <Gregor> Err
21:08:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Which implies interesting selection pressures.
21:09:00 <Vorpal> pikhq, well, that is not uncommon. isn't it the case for bz2 too?
21:09:10 <alise> NetBEUI fuck yeah
21:09:13 <alise> Gregor: did you install NetBEUI?
21:09:18 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: i was joking
21:09:25 <pikhq> Vorpal: It sucks for an audio format, though.
21:09:30 <Gregor> Vorpal: But bz2 sucks arse, lzma for the win :P
21:09:42 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I got that.
21:09:43 <pikhq> Vorpal: FLAC, in comparison, can reasonably be decoded faster-than-realtime on a 50 MHz CPU.
21:09:58 <Gregor> alise: If that's an alternative to TCP/IP then no. If that's something else, then I installed it if it was on by default.
21:10:10 <alise> Gregor: it's one of the networking options
21:10:21 <Gregor> alise: As in, one of the networking PROTOCOLS?
21:10:28 <Gregor> alise: One that you can choose as well as TCP/IP?
21:10:29 <alise> Gregor: yes
21:10:31 <Vorpal> <Gregor> Vorpal: But bz2 sucks arse, lzma for the win :P <-- true
21:10:36 <Gregor> alise: I only enabled TCP/IP.
21:10:38 <Vorpal> but lzma hasn't been around that long
21:10:38 <alise> Gregor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetBIOS
21:10:41 <Vorpal> not on linux at least
21:10:43 <alise> but others are enabled by default
21:10:46 <Gregor> I DON'T CARE :P
21:10:50 <Vorpal> bz2 used to be the default choice just 2-3 years ago
21:10:54 <Gregor> alise: That was my only change from the default.
21:11:20 <alise> GREGOR: WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT
21:11:27 <Gregor> alise: I only wanted TCP/IP
21:11:30 <alise> FASCIST
21:11:36 <Vorpal> what
21:11:39 <Gregor> Welcome to 1998
21:11:49 <Vorpal> that's an absurd attack
21:12:17 <Vorpal> pikhq, how does wavpack and flac compare?
21:12:17 <fizzie> Gregor: But did you instal... IPX? (How could you live without!)
21:12:27 <Gregor> fizzie: I did not :P
21:12:43 <Vorpal> Gregor, what about SCTP over IPv6?
21:12:49 <Vorpal> (develop support if missing)
21:12:50 <Gregor> Vorpal: NT 4
21:12:54 <Gregor> :P
21:12:56 <Vorpal> Gregor, write the drivers for it!
21:13:02 <Vorpal> Gregor, it needs to be done!
21:13:23 <Vorpal> Gregor, tunneling over ipsec using X502 certificates of course :P
21:13:39 <Vorpal> probably painful to implement that
21:14:00 <alise> fizzie: *install, fascist
21:14:18 <Vorpal> alise, did you not notice the ...?
21:14:29 <Vorpal> alise, obviously he ended in the middle of a word
21:14:35 <alise> Oh, I s...
21:15:09 <Phantom_Hoover> What's tha- RADIATION WASH
21:15:50 <Gregor> Completing words is for the we--
21:15:52 <Vorpal> alise, inde...
21:16:17 <oerjan> Vorpal: if you look at http://sv.bibelsite.com/exodus/1-1.htm you see that the danish and norwegian versions have no plural endings. although they are/may be a couple decades younger. and the bible may of course be written more traditionally than other texts
21:17:07 <Vorpal> oerjan, well yes for var and such. But for "har" specifically I meant
21:17:17 * Phantom_Hoover wonders how you would go about designing a conservative CA.
21:17:35 <Vorpal> oerjan, I don't think it is "haro" at least
21:17:49 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, define what you mean by a conservative CA?
21:17:51 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: they surely must exist
21:17:51 <pikhq> Vorpal: Wavpack is very slightly better than FLAC, but less supported.
21:17:55 <alise> Vorpal: preserves cell count on all transitions
21:18:02 <Vorpal> alise, ah
21:18:06 <Phantom_Hoover> What alise said.
21:18:09 <oerjan> Vorpal: hm well "kommo" has a plural so it would be strange if har didn't
21:18:10 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: hmm, doesn't that mean that energy can never be created or destroyed? ME LIKEY
21:18:20 <Phantom_Hoover> That's why I was considering them.
21:18:23 <alise> means you need an infinite plane though if you want utopia :)
21:18:25 <Vorpal> well, there is an obvious one
21:18:27 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, ^
21:18:28 <alise> infinite plane tiled with food
21:18:31 <alise> Vorpal: "id", har har
21:18:33 <Vorpal> it won't be TC though
21:18:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, preferably an interesting one.
21:18:48 <alise> IIS supports gopher, so cool so COOL
21:18:52 <Vorpal> alise, that one too, but I didn't think of that one
21:18:59 <alise> Vorpal: invert?
21:19:05 <Vorpal> alise, I was thinking "move everything one cell left each turn"
21:19:34 <Vorpal> alise, and invert would not preserve it? Or what do you mean
21:19:46 <alise> left? wrapping, presumably
21:19:51 <alise> since CAs are neighbourhood-based
21:19:53 <alise> not global
21:19:57 <alise> that's sort of the point
21:20:02 <alise> also, true, invert wouldn't XD
21:20:04 <Vorpal> hm, more than 2 states
21:20:11 <alise> perfectly possible
21:20:14 <alise> transition rules get ugly though
21:20:17 <Vorpal> exactly
21:20:17 <oerjan> Vorpal: i would expect "havo", but that gives no hits
21:20:21 <alise> often done, though
21:20:22 <alise> see golly
21:20:36 <Vorpal> alise, it should be possible to do "move one left" by having more than 2 states, no?
21:20:50 <alise> Gregor: The WINE version remembers time. Er, wait, actually I haven't closed QEMU once.
21:20:52 <alise> Never mind.
21:20:58 <alise> Vorpal: Uhh, sure, I guess.
21:21:03 <alise> No.
21:21:06 <alise> Er, yes.
21:21:07 <Vorpal> alise, as long as you only count "any on" vs. "off"
21:21:07 <alise> Maybe.
21:21:08 <alise> yes.
21:21:10 <alise> Yes it would be
21:21:12 <alise> *Yes it would be.
21:21:23 <Vorpal> alise, it would be rather painful to get working I suspect
21:21:27 <alise> not really
21:21:31 <alise> you only need one colour
21:21:33 <alise> "absorb me"
21:21:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, it's easy enough if you drop some symmetries.
21:21:38 <alise> and the next generation,
21:21:45 <alise> the cell to the left can pull it to its side
21:21:47 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, hm?
21:21:48 <alise> and the one can die out
21:21:49 <alise> maaybe
21:21:51 <alise> no
21:21:52 <alise> hmm
21:21:52 <alise> not sure
21:22:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, the transition table is literally one line.
21:22:08 <Vorpal> alise, lets settle for "might be possible" then
21:22:34 <Phantom_Hoover> And some variable definitions.
21:22:59 <alise> it's possible. probably.
21:23:01 <alise> yes
21:23:02 <alise> yes it is possible
21:23:05 <alise> almost certainly
21:23:09 <alise> yes
21:23:10 <alise> it is
21:23:15 <alise> i... think
21:23:18 <Vorpal> alise, XD
21:23:23 <alise> stop that
21:23:24 <Vorpal> alise, this is getting absurd now you know
21:23:25 <alise> it hurts
21:23:30 <alise> it hurts my brain
21:23:37 <Vorpal> alise, who should stop what?
21:23:39 <alise> i don't like you
21:23:41 <alise> Vorpal: stop talking about it
21:23:43 <Phantom_Hoover> no_states:2
21:23:45 <alise> it is make me confuse
21:23:48 <Vorpal> alise, talking about what?
21:23:52 <Phantom_Hoover> neighborhood:vonNeumann
21:23:52 <alise> AAAAA
21:23:56 <Phantom_Hoover> symmetry:none
21:23:59 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, hm
21:24:07 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, neighborhood:vonNeumann ?
21:24:12 <Phantom_Hoover> var a, b, c={0,1}
21:24:19 <alise> ehird@dinky:~/Downloads/golly-2.1-src$ make -f makefile-gtk bgolly
21:24:19 <alise> g++ `wx-config --cxxflags` -O5 -DZLIB -DVERSION=2.1 -Wall -Wno-non-virtual-dtor -fno-strict-aliasing -c -o ObjGTK/bigint.o bigint.cpp
21:24:19 <alise> Assembler messages:
21:24:19 <alise> Fatal error: can't create ObjGTK/bigint.o: No such file or directory
21:24:21 <alise> Phail.
21:24:27 * alise compiles regular golly first
21:24:28 <Phantom_Hoover> 1,a,b,c,1
21:24:30 <alise> which creates the directory
21:24:31 <Phantom_Hoover> There we go.
21:24:36 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I just got the binary.
21:24:39 <Vorpal> alise, bgolly?
21:24:42 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: on linux? no thanks
21:24:46 <alise> Vorpal: batch version of golly
21:24:48 <alise> just compiling it for completeness
21:24:51 <Vorpal> alise, ah
21:25:12 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I was in a rush and couldn't be bothered kicking my way through 10^3 dependencies.
21:25:22 <alise> there's like 0 dependencies
21:25:24 <Vorpal> um it doesn't have that
21:25:25 <alise> you just install wxwidgets dev
21:25:28 <alise> Vorpal: ?
21:25:29 <Vorpal> gtk. that's about it iirc
21:25:31 <oerjan> "Plural forms of verbs were made optional in Swedish secondary schools in 1944 and had fully disappeared by 1970."
21:25:36 <alise> wxwidgets
21:25:37 <alise> not gtk
21:25:39 <Vorpal> ah
21:25:48 <alise> also optionally python and perl but you already have them :P
21:25:59 <oerjan> which is rather later than both the danish and norwegian in the previous link
21:26:18 <Vorpal> oerjan, hm, and what about "har"?
21:26:49 <Vorpal> oerjan, hm "hava" but that might be yet another archaic version. Don't think it is third person stuff at least
21:26:54 <oerjan> "The -om/-en forms were used in the 1917 Swedish translation of the Bible, although they had already been obsolete for a long time."
21:27:01 <alise> wxpython.cpp:330: error: ‘G_PyErr_SetString’ cannot be used as a function
21:27:03 <oerjan> (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Swedish_obsolete_verb_forms)
21:27:05 <alise> correction, needs python development libraries
21:27:11 <Vorpal> alise, x84-64?
21:27:14 -!- jcp has quit (Quit: Later).
21:27:15 <alise> yes. why?
21:27:19 <Vorpal> alise, then python support is broken in golly
21:27:22 <alise> x84 lol
21:27:24 <Vorpal> or at least was half a year ago
21:27:29 <alise> Vorpal: yeah half a year ago :P
21:27:29 <Vorpal> alise, oops
21:27:31 <alise> probably works now
21:27:33 <alise> i think it worked quite recently
21:27:34 <Vorpal> alise, ah
21:27:37 <alise> x86 is such an ugly name
21:27:39 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, there hasn't been a release lately.
21:27:44 <alise> as is x86-64
21:27:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Although it works with the 32-bit binary...
21:27:52 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Changes in version 2.1 (released September 2009)
21:28:05 <Phantom_Hoover> <6 months ago.
21:28:06 <Vorpal> alise, m68000 is a lot nicer
21:28:14 <alise> lawl
21:28:16 <alise> 68k is a nice name
21:28:18 <alise> so is ppc, alpha, mips
21:28:21 <alise> x86 is just fugly
21:28:28 <Vorpal> alise, I intentionally used it's full name :P
21:28:31 <alise> ia32 is "better" but intel-specific and ia64 doesn't mean what you think it means
21:28:58 <alise> maybe sa32/sa64, for standard architecture :P
21:29:02 <alise> pa32/pa64, pc architecture
21:29:18 <Vorpal> alise, I read the latter one has ppc first somehow
21:29:45 <alise> x86_64 is undoubtedly the ugliest name, though
21:29:57 <alise> can we *please* just let the underscore die anywhere within a km of prose?
21:30:00 <Vorpal> alise, wikipedia mentions these names for 68k: 680x0/m68k/68k/68K
21:30:08 <alise> 68k is obviously the most pleasing
21:30:23 <Vorpal> alise, and no we need the underscore to not break target triplets
21:30:30 <alise> oh, shut up
21:30:31 <oerjan> Vorpal: it might be hava, that page says most verbs used the same form as the infinitive (which was hava previously) and those are not listed
21:30:33 <alise> that's code
21:30:37 <Vorpal> alise, like x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu
21:30:39 <alise> and legacy design because of that flaw :P
21:30:40 <alise> but that's code
21:30:44 <alise> no need to *call* it that
21:30:55 <alise> x86-64 is infinitely preferable
21:31:10 <Vorpal> alise, yes we should all say "ex eight six underscore six four" :P
21:31:31 <alise> i pronounce it "ex eight six sixty-four"
21:31:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Some_said_the_world_should_end_in_fire
21:31:49 <Vorpal> alise, not eighty six?
21:31:49 <Phantom_Hoover> "ex eighty-six sixty-four"
21:32:00 <alise> wxperl.cpp:(.text+0x3f88): undefined reference to `Perl_newSV_type'
21:32:03 <alise> BUT I INSTALLED IT ;_;
21:32:05 <alise> Vorpal: no
21:32:12 <alise> because i call x86 "ex eight six"
21:32:20 <alise> it's not even eighty-six really
21:32:31 <alise> "80486"
21:32:31 <Vorpal> alise, hm I call x86 "ex åttiosex"
21:32:34 <alise> i mean sort of, but eh
21:32:37 <alise> attiosex
21:32:38 <Vorpal> (go on, have fun at Swedish)
21:32:41 <Vorpal> (I know you will)
21:32:43 <alise> sex in the attio
21:32:49 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, attosex.
21:32:51 <Vorpal> alise, en:six = sv:sex
21:33:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Don't let Sgeo hear.
21:33:07 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, ... ?
21:33:10 <Vorpal> what?
21:33:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, IT'S IN THE LOGS FROM YESTERDAY
21:33:24 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, if you had said augur instead I wounder have understood the joke
21:33:27 <Vorpal> but this makes no sense
21:33:39 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I don't log read unless I'm highlighted
21:34:03 <Vorpal> god I wish this ircd had +B
21:34:30 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, oh I would explain if you asked, nicely
21:34:38 <oerjan> Vorpal: ah found a nicely archaic one :D "Huru hava icke hjältarna fallit i striden!" (2 Samuelsbokem 1:25)
21:34:56 <Vorpal> oerjan, um... I'm not completely sure what it means
21:34:58 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, what's up with that Perl thing, by the way?
21:35:04 <Vorpal> the main message I get yes
21:35:09 <Vorpal> but not why it is "hava" there
21:35:09 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: LDFLAGS+=-lperl instead spits out wx errors
21:35:25 <oerjan> Vorpal: because hjältarna is plural?
21:35:47 <Vorpal> oerjan, isn't hava about infinitive or something such strange?
21:36:10 <oerjan> Vorpal: it's infinite _and_ plural, as i guessed above
21:36:19 <oerjan> most verbs used the same form for both
21:36:27 <Vorpal> oerjan, so what about present tense and plural?
21:36:39 <oerjan> well that's what i meant
21:36:42 <Vorpal> oh
21:36:55 <Vorpal> I thought you meant infinite-plural vs. present-plural
21:37:52 <oerjan> afaik infinitive hasn't had a plural since ancient times
21:37:56 <oerjan> if ever
21:38:22 <Vorpal> oerjan, ah
21:40:03 <oerjan> you will note that infinitive and (3rd person) plural coincide for most verbs in english and german as well
21:40:39 <alise> HOW INSTALL
21:41:04 <oerjan> *present plural
21:41:42 <Vorpal> anyway, what was that about sgeo
21:42:02 <oerjan> hm wait neither english nor german distinguish persons for plural verbs afair
21:42:02 <Vorpal> oerjan, not for have?
21:42:18 <nooga> hprmf
21:42:26 <Vorpal> oerjan, am/are/is?
21:42:32 <oerjan> Vorpal: to have, they have. zu haben, sie haben. i think they do.
21:42:42 <Vorpal> oerjan, "I have"
21:42:50 <Vorpal> it is only different there for third person singular
21:42:57 <oerjan> Vorpal: that's not infinitive!
21:43:16 <Vorpal> oerjan, oh right, thought we were talking about present tense again?
21:43:37 <oerjan> Vorpal: well i just chose 3rd person present plural as the form i was sure both english and german tended to make equal to the infinitive
21:43:54 <oerjan> (3rd person actually was redundant there)
21:43:56 <Vorpal> ah
21:44:18 <oerjan> english of course uses it for 1st and 2nd person singular too
21:44:44 <Vorpal> oerjan, I don't think Swedish handled third person singular different than first person singular though?
21:45:17 <Vorpal> oerjan, just singular/plural
21:45:29 <oerjan> Vorpal: not in relatively modern times, i guess. the page i linked _does_ mention it at one time distinguished different _plural_ persons
21:45:39 <Vorpal> ouch
21:45:44 <Vorpal> I'm glad I live now and not then
21:46:11 <oerjan> old norse distinguished all forms of course, to the degree that it could leave out pronouns iirc
21:46:39 <Vorpal> haha
21:47:24 <alise> The Golly application can be installed anywhere you like, but make
21:47:24 <alise> sure you move the whole folder because the various subfolders must
21:47:24 <alise> be kept with the application.
21:47:25 <oerjan> like several modern romance languages do (italian and i believe spanish)
21:47:27 <alise> I love how awful that is.
21:47:29 <alise> Don't you, Phantom_Hoover?
21:47:36 <Vorpal> oerjan, very risc I guess
21:47:43 <oerjan> risc?
21:47:50 <Vorpal> oerjan, yes
21:47:59 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I had to use a script to launch it.
21:48:04 <Vorpal> oerjan, few instructions, lots of flags
21:48:05 <oerjan> icelandic might still leave out pronouns, i'm not sure
21:48:20 <Vorpal> oerjan, icelandic is a class on it's own
21:48:45 <oerjan> well yeah but it's closer to old norse than any other living language
21:48:46 <Phantom_Hoover> I can't get around that effing Perl problem...
21:48:54 <alise> How can I test Python support?
21:48:57 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I got it working.
21:48:57 <Vorpal> oerjan, well actually Finnish might be able to compete with Icelandic in convolutedness
21:49:08 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: make clean && make -f makefile-gtk LDFLAGS+="-lperl $(wx-config --libs)"
21:49:11 <alise> erm
21:49:17 <alise> make -f makefile-gtk clean && make -f makefile-gtk LDFLAGS+="-lperl $(wx-config --libs)"
21:49:17 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, try one of the Python scripts?
21:49:23 <Vorpal> alise, that langtons-ant-in-life used python iirc
21:49:26 <alise> Okay.
21:49:31 <Vorpal> to set bg colours
21:49:38 <alise> Where is it?
21:49:41 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, there's a giant Python script collection!
21:49:43 <oerjan> well naturally. finnish has plenty of person endings, i don't recall if they leave out pronouns regularly though
21:49:44 <Vorpal> alise, in life
21:49:51 <Vorpal> alise, not in "other"
21:49:57 <Vorpal> alise, since it emulates it all in life iirc
21:49:58 <oerjan> hungarian does though, a slightly related language to finnish
21:50:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Just use the MWSS gun script.
21:50:07 <Vorpal> or what Phantom_Hoover said
21:50:19 <alise> They're all .rles.
21:50:22 <Vorpal> oerjan, ask fizzie ?
21:50:26 <Vorpal> fizzie, ?
21:50:37 <oerjan> fizzie: does finnish leave out many personal pronouns?
21:50:55 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, the Python scripts?
21:50:58 <alise> oh, lol
21:51:00 <alise> scripts were hidden
21:51:15 <alise> lacks Py_InitModule4.
21:51:15 <alise> hrm.
21:51:24 <alise> I'll build it 32-bit.
21:52:11 <Phantom_Hoover> So... Why not just use the binary?
21:52:28 <alise> Because that's not terribly reliable and why do they use -O5.
21:53:19 <Phantom_Hoover> To OPTIMISE things!
21:53:23 <alise> ehird@dinky:~/Downloads/golly-2.1-src$ make -f makefile-gtk CXXFLAGS+="-m32" LDFLAGS+="-m32 -lperl $(wx-config --libs)"
21:53:34 <alise> Okay, I need 32-bit wx libs.
21:53:48 <alise> Now how can I get them?
21:54:02 <Vorpal> alise, which compiler
21:54:12 <alise> What? g++.
21:54:19 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:54:21 <Vorpal> alise, I meant that they used -O5 with
21:54:23 -!- Slereah has quit.
21:54:24 <alise> Grr @ how few lib32 packages there are.
21:54:25 <alise> Vorpal: g++
21:54:25 <Vorpal> alise, iirc clang goes to 5
21:54:28 <Vorpal> wait
21:54:31 <Vorpal> that sounded familiar
21:54:33 <Vorpal> oh no
21:54:37 <Vorpal> is *THAT* was clang is about?
21:54:50 <Vorpal> very well, easy to beat then
21:54:54 <alise> 5 < 11
21:54:59 * Vorpal makes a fork that goes to 11
21:55:33 * Phantom_Hoover wonders why Py_Init4 was.
21:55:44 <Phantom_Hoover> DAMMIT I WANT 64-BIT GOLLY
21:55:46 <Vorpal> alise, ah it goes to -O4
21:55:50 <Vorpal> still, one more than gcc
21:55:54 <Vorpal> the pattern is obvious
21:56:01 <alise> InitModule, you mean.
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21:56:13 * alise downloads the binary in exasperation
21:56:32 <Ilari> Would likely be cool pattern: Still-life that when hit by one glider in suitable way transforms into caterpillar. :-)
21:56:52 <Vorpal> alise, basically the issue is that they try to load it dynamically and fail badly at handling python macro stuff
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21:57:18 <alise> 32-bit golly works
21:57:20 <alise> slowly as ever
21:57:28 <Vorpal> alise, golly isn't slow?
21:57:31 <alise> the UI sure is
21:57:36 <alise> sluggish
21:57:41 <Phantom_Hoover> The 64-bit one isn't.
21:57:47 <alise> yes it is
21:57:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Or not as much.
21:57:48 <Vorpal> alise, um, it is snappy for me on my thinkpad. 64-bit binary of course
21:57:50 <alise> i just tried the 64-bit one
21:57:58 <alise> and the 32-bit one
21:57:59 <alise> both sluggish UIs
21:58:07 <alise> well not that sluggish
21:58:09 <alise> 64-bit is more sluggish
21:58:14 <Vorpal> err
21:58:16 <Vorpal> what?
21:58:23 <Vorpal> alise, I never had that issue
21:58:39 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: is there a chained gosper gun anywhere in the standard collection?
21:58:44 <Phantom_Hoover> No.
21:59:13 <Phantom_Hoover> I invented it independently, but someone else probably did it, since it's pretty obvious..
21:59:47 <Phantom_Hoover> It's a matter of lining up multiple QB shuttles so they all interact to make the glider-producing reaction.
21:59:55 <alise> Do upload an rle file.
22:00:10 <alise> brb
22:01:17 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
22:02:28 <Phantom_Hoover> http://pastebin.com/kfH1mw7M
22:02:46 <Phantom_Hoover> That's a quadruple-barrel one.
22:03:26 <Phantom_Hoover> To add shuttles, delete the end block and add another shuttle when the previous end one reaches the right phase.
22:04:41 <nooga> Phantom_Hoover: what is that?
22:05:40 <Phantom_Hoover> So if you have QaQbB where B is a block and Qa and Qb are relevant phases of the shuttle, QaQb → QcQa → QcQaQbB
22:05:55 <Phantom_Hoover> nooga, extension to the Gosper glider gun
22:05:58 <nooga> what kind of CA is this?
22:06:06 <nooga> what are those symbols
22:06:09 <Phantom_Hoover> nooga, rle-encoded Life.
22:06:12 <nooga> ah
22:06:15 <Phantom_Hoover> *rle
22:06:21 <Phantom_Hoover> No encoded.
22:06:32 <Phantom_Hoover> No, wiat.
22:06:34 <Phantom_Hoover> *wait.
22:06:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah, forget the quandary.
22:07:11 <Phantom_Hoover> I think the Gosper gun principle can be extended to the twin bee guns.
22:07:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, it just exploded...
22:07:36 <Phantom_Hoover> AAAA
22:08:18 <olsner> gosper gun is a very fun word
22:08:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, fixed it.
22:08:52 <Phantom_Hoover> I may have flipped a cell accidentally....
22:08:53 <olsner> is it a gun for use by gospers (I'm thinking that would be something similar to a half-human gopher), or is it a gun that shoots gospers?
22:09:12 <Phantom_Hoover> olsner, it's a glider gun created by Bill Gosper.
22:09:16 <Vorpal> <olsner> gosper gun is a very fun word <-- not as fun as "gospel gun" though
22:09:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Life objects tend to have pretty cool names.
22:10:13 <Phantom_Hoover> That pastebin works, by the way.
22:10:16 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, such as: http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=134P39.1
22:10:19 <Phantom_Hoover> I messed up my local copu.
22:10:21 <Vorpal> that's a cool name I guess
22:10:21 <Phantom_Hoover> *copy
22:10:44 <Vorpal> (random click on the wiki got there there)
22:10:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, more like Herschel technology, the lightspeed telegraph etc.
22:11:12 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, that is not the majority though
22:11:19 <Phantom_Hoover> There's an oscillator called the pentadecathlon, and another called the candlefrobra.
22:12:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, interesting and useful objects have nice names, though.
22:13:14 <Phantom_Hoover> And the catacryst and metacatacryst. Mustn't forget them.
22:13:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Along with Corderships, powered by switch engines.
22:14:36 <olsner> switch engine, sounds like a kind of hyperdrive
22:15:15 <fizzie> oerjan: Yes, we do often leave out the pronouns in favour of suffixes.
22:15:44 <Phantom_Hoover> olsner, it's kind of a weird puffer.
22:15:55 <Phantom_Hoover> i.e. one with no spaceship backbone.
22:16:48 <Phantom_Hoover> (Most puffers work by having a bit of junk acting as the engine, which is stabilised by a spaceship escort.)
22:17:22 <olsner> this is quite awesome, terminologically speaking
22:17:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Corderships are a number of switch engines arranged so that they clean up their own debris.
22:17:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Although they can be made to do all sorts of cool things.
22:18:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Interestingly, Corderships can survive a couple of hits from a glider or other object.
22:19:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Although it takes out an engine or two and turns it into a puffer.
22:23:50 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself).
22:26:38 <Phantom_Hoover> IIRC there was a p14 gun somewhere, but I can't remember exactly.
22:26:48 <Phantom_Hoover> *pseudo-gun
22:27:00 <Phantom_Hoover> It spliced higher-period streams.
22:27:58 <Vorpal> night →
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22:38:19 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep
22:41:32 -!- Sgeo has joined.
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22:43:19 <alise> Gregor: I will now reinstall MSVC++.
22:43:21 <alise> And then never turn it off.
22:43:28 <Gregor> savevm
22:44:00 <alise> Gregor: Dude, this is NT. I think it was 95 -- no, 98 -- that a bug when if you left it on for too long it overflowed 2^32 ms and froze.
22:44:06 <alise> I don't have much better hopes for NT 4 on MIPS
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22:46:02 <olsner> 2^32ms is about 7 weeks
22:46:24 <olsner> but please do leave it on for 7 weeks just to see what happens to it
22:47:16 <Gregor> This is a server OS. I'm sure that there was a REAL MIPS NT 4 system that reliably ran for more than 7 weeks.
22:47:24 <alise> lawl
22:47:31 <olsner> maybe it was scheduled to reboot every 6 weeks
22:47:35 <alise> are you so sure about that, Gregor :P
22:47:42 <olsner> or just did anyway :P
22:47:47 <alise> this is Windows and ISS here, not exactly the paragon of stability
22:47:59 <alise> it probably crashes before you can ever reach 7 weeks uptime
22:48:02 <alise> or wait no
22:48:04 <alise> nothing supports NT 4
22:48:07 <alise> so we're safe
22:49:16 <Gregor> Hmmm.
22:49:20 <Gregor> Observation:
22:49:22 <nooga> :f
22:49:34 <Gregor> The Playstation Move controller is 100% more dildesque than the Wii controller.
22:49:39 <Gregor> Even taking the name "Wii" into account.
22:49:48 <alise> FIRST LOGON SO SLOW
22:49:59 <alise> Gregor: Do a comparative test and upload it to YouTube.
22:50:48 <alise> The sphere at the top is just so kooky.
22:50:55 <alise> Also how the hell am I meant to hit those four auxiliary buttons? They so tiny
22:51:59 <Gregor> A Comparative Study of the Utility as a Sexual Aid of Motion-Based Game Controllers for the Wii, PlayStation 3 and X-Box 360
22:53:24 <oerjan> this study is a wii bit out of the x-box
22:53:35 <alise> Gregor: WHY IS IT SO SLOW TO START WITH
22:53:36 <alise> pikhq: ha ha
22:53:42 <alise> Gregor: *Xbox, also
22:53:51 <alise> yes, that capitalisation is horrible
22:53:55 <alise> yes, it's the correct one
22:54:01 <oerjan> hy-phenation is a art
22:54:10 <Gregor> alise: This is a research paper, it was supposed to be intentionally wrongish :P
22:54:31 <alise> Bananas in My Space, or, A Comparative Study of the Utility as a Sexual Aid of Motion-Based Game Controllers for the Wii, PlayStation 3 and X-Box 360
22:54:58 <alise> A paper targeted at the cross-section of people who have read classic functional programming papers and want to use game console controllers as dildos.
22:55:03 <alise> ... wait, what the hell @ xbox 360
22:55:07 <alise> HOW DOES THAT EVEN
22:55:17 <alise> that does *not* go anywhere near anyone's anus. new rule.
22:55:22 <Gregor> :P
22:55:37 <alise> Natal/Kinect doesn't even have a controller, so lawl
22:55:45 <Gregor> Exactly ;)
22:56:37 <Gregor> The camera for it is a LITTLE bit dildesque.
22:57:24 <alise> Gregor: Reinstalling MSVC++2
22:57:29 <alise> *MSVC++ 2
22:57:32 <Gregor> lawl
22:57:36 <Gregor> Just use it from the console
22:57:37 <Gregor> Pussy
22:57:41 <alise> Noob
22:57:59 <alise> ...so basically, using Kinect's controller as a dildo = self-fisting
22:58:13 <alise> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/KinectSensor.png This is not a phallic camera at all, dude, what the hell are you on?
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23:02:28 <nooga> dildos
23:02:39 <nooga> i wonder how they produce them
23:03:39 <oerjan> clearly they use casts
23:05:18 <Gregor> I can't imagine it's more complicated than pouring something into a mold and allowing it to dry.
23:06:30 <nooga> but what!?
23:06:51 <Gregor> Idonno, some kind of molten soft plastic or something?
23:07:11 <nooga> eh
23:07:16 <nooga> try to melt goddamn plastic
23:07:30 <Gregor> ... use heat?
23:08:22 <alise> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Dankogai ;; we have a semi-famous guy on the wiki!
23:08:32 <alise> wait, no
23:08:33 <alise> really famous
23:08:40 <alise> pikhq: Former CTO of Livedoor is on our wiki. Apparently.
23:09:36 <nooga> Gregor: then it will burn
23:10:26 <alise> Gregor: Waddafuh? VC++ crashes from the start now.
23:10:47 <nooga> livedoor -> moon runes
23:11:21 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:13:27 <fizzie> There's that injection molding thing; I guess with many plastics you can't quite get it molten enough for regular cast molding, but it goes soft enough that you can use a suitable plunger-style tool to squirt it inside a mold.
23:14:12 <alise> Gregor: *How* can it break a second time like this?!
23:14:50 <alise> burnt plastic is cool
23:19:25 <oerjan> rubbish, it's hot. at least initially.
23:21:01 <fizzie> So... burnt plastic is cool, but rubbish in general is hot?
23:21:09 <fizzie> How confusing.
23:21:48 <oerjan> i was hoping you wouldn't notice that.
23:23:29 <alise> Gregor: Um, how do we extract archives on this thing?
23:23:51 <Gregor> alise: Archive O' Magic has tar and g[un]zip
23:24:01 <alise> Gregor: Archive O' Magic? XD
23:24:07 <alise> link me again?
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23:24:42 <Gregor> alise: Oh find it your damn self
23:25:05 <alise> http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/install/WindowsNT4.0-MIPS/
23:25:40 <alise> How to get a link there: bit.ly it and type the result out :P http://bit.ly/bhSZjs (gunzip)
23:26:01 <alise> Gregor: This is my favourite operating system.
23:26:04 <alise> You must port gelfload.
23:26:08 <alise> It would be exquisite.
23:26:20 <alise> LOL
23:26:22 <alise> bitly links don't work
23:26:33 <alise> http://tinyurl.com/3xogy4h
23:26:43 <alise> Nor tinyurl, crap.
23:27:12 <fizzie> Info-ZIP's zip/unzip seems to have NT/{Alpha,PPC,MIPS} binaries; though this was just a filename listing, didn't verify that they actually exist somewhere.
23:27:25 <alise> Gregor: You know... if you substitute words other than "MIPS" into that link... well...
23:27:47 <alise> ...not much, admittedly.
23:27:56 <Gregor> alise: Yeah, I already tried :P
23:28:02 <Gregor> alise: Not much there.
23:28:05 <alise> There's directories without the 4.0, too.
23:28:08 <alise> But with rachitectures.
23:28:22 <Gregor> You realize there's a directory listing, right? :P
23:29:10 <alise> Say, where the hell is the desktop stored?
23:30:30 <alise> Ew, in a huge directory.
23:31:21 <alise> Gregor: IE 2 STORES NO HISTORY AAAAA
23:31:47 <alise> Hmm, unzip would be nice.
23:31:52 <alise> (I'm trying to do lynx.)
23:32:11 <alise> Gregor: My SINGLE REQUEST is that you unzip, tar up, and upload a single file.
23:32:15 <alise> Or else.
23:32:35 <Gregor> Use netcat, lozor
23:33:41 <alise> Oh come on :P
23:35:28 <alise> tug.ctan.org (US) [FROZEN]
23:35:28 <alise> ftp.tex.ac.uk (UK) [FROZEN]
23:35:28 <alise> ftp.dante.de (Germany) [FROZEN]
23:35:29 <alise> SO SLOW
23:37:05 <alise> 331 Guest login ok, send your complete e-mail address as password.
23:37:07 <alise> Password: foo@bar
23:37:08 <alise> Bite me.
23:37:50 <alise> lawl they no longer carry it
23:38:02 <Gregor> http://codu.org/tmp/ncmips.tar
23:38:15 <alise> Gregor: I don't want netcat, dood
23:38:23 <alise> dooooooood
23:38:32 <Gregor> Well then SCREWWWWWWW YOUUUUUUUUUU
23:39:35 <alise> "FUCK YOU NETCAT"
23:40:02 <alise> As of 2009, the latest sources and binaries for Zip, UnZip, WiZ and MacZip (including encryption code) are available at ftp.info-zip.org and Info-ZIP's SourceForge site.
23:40:02 <alise> o
23:40:19 <Gregor> Why do you need zip so much?
23:40:33 <alise> To unpack the Lynx/Win32 sources. To compile them, y'see.
23:40:56 <Gregor> So download them on your desktop, extract and tar them, then transfer them via netcat.
23:40:57 <Gregor> Too simple to bother so much about.
23:41:05 <Gregor> Or hell, stick it on filebin.ca
23:41:13 <Gregor> If you're so netcat-incompetent.
23:41:20 <alise> i'm too LAZY
23:42:13 * alise looks for Info-Zip Win32 MIPS
23:42:20 <alise> ftp://ftp.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/win32/ PHAIL
23:42:40 <alise> zip23xN-mip.zip WinNT (MIPS R4000) executables and docs (no encryption)
23:42:40 <alise> zcr23xN-mip.zip WinNT (MIPS R4000) executables and docs (with encryption)
23:42:42 <alise> ".zip"
23:42:48 <alise> SO PHAILURE
23:43:01 <alise> 526906 Aug 12 1997 unz531xN-mip.exe UnZip 5.31, NT MIPS exes/docs
23:43:02 <alise> approve
23:44:03 <pikhq> alise: Why is it that music is the only thing with a commonly-supported, reasonable metadata format?
23:45:45 <pikhq> I mean, why is it that pretty much all we've got for video playing is "pick file. It movie."?
23:46:50 <pikhq> (whereas for most music players, that it's in a *file* is merely an implementation detail that sometimes gets shoved in your face)
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23:52:37 <alise> oh thank god i thought my connection failed
23:53:15 <alise> i have a serious internet addiction
23:53:18 <alise> pikhq: http://pastie.org/1185331.txt?key=mmcq0m8woxnooltgad4gpg
23:53:22 <alise> pikhq: relevant to you
23:53:36 <alise> the internet is just a so much better interface to the world than the world is :P
23:54:19 <alise> pikhq: actually a generic metadata-for-everything might not be such a terrible idea
23:54:22 <alise> not xml-based, though
23:55:12 <alise> pikhq: sorry the url is bad
23:55:38 <alise> never mind
23:55:39 <alise> i've got it
23:56:20 <alise> pikhq: btw i blame you entirely.
23:56:52 -!- Kordalien has joined.
23:56:54 <pikhq> Mmmmf.
23:57:28 <alise> pikhq: Mmmmf to what? Also, TOTALLY BLAMED
23:57:32 <pikhq> There is *less* sense in video not having reasonable metadata than, oh, anything else.
23:57:41 <pikhq> Well, except maybe music. That would be pain.
23:57:55 <alise> Indeed.
23:57:55 <alise> pikhq: BLAMED
23:59:06 <alise> pikhq will never ask me what I blame him for.
23:59:33 <alise> Whyy is filebin broken
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