←2012-03-18 2012-03-19 2012-03-20→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:00:00 <fungot> elliott: it is a feature that shouldn't be a normal receiver.) not that i'm depressed. :p http://panic.joroinen.fi/pk/ breakpoint03/ wild/ fnord)
00:00:10 <elliott> that's a rubbish hi :(
00:00:13 <itidus21> `learn shrooms man.
00:00:16 <HackEgo> I knew that.
00:00:23 <Maharba> Would the archive be a separate page, a subpage of the template, or <noinclude>d on the template page?
00:00:55 <elliott> `rm wisdom/shrooms
00:00:57 <HackEgo> No output.
00:02:11 <elliott> Maharba: I think the best thing would be to have a template {{featured language}}, and [[Esolang:Featured languages]] describing the process
00:02:17 <elliott> and presumably discussion on [[Esolang talk:Featured languages]]
00:02:28 <elliott> *describing the process and having archives
00:02:35 <elliott> the template would presumably link to the project-space page
00:02:40 <Maharba> And archive on Esolang:Featured languages/Archive
00:03:12 <elliott> might not be necessary depending on the time span. although if it's weekly it would get annoying
00:03:25 <Maharba> I was thinking every 2 weeks.
00:04:24 <elliott> yes, that sounds reasonable. although i'm not sure a rigid time limit is necessary at all
00:04:34 <elliott> if there's no decent suggestions, no worries hanging on a bit longer
00:04:42 <elliott> although it might encourage people to suggest if there's a deadline :)
00:04:46 <Maharba> Of course not. Just an approximate frame.
00:07:13 <elliott> Approximate?! naw, we should shut down the wiki if there's no suggestions for two weeks
00:07:56 <Maharba> :) No.
00:08:07 <itidus21> suggest or we kill the wiki
00:08:20 <itidus21> we as in the others since im not part of the wiki
00:08:21 <itidus21> :-s
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00:09:18 <elliott> i don't think maharba liked my suggestion.
00:09:22 <oerjan> itidus21: hey you couldn't possibly be worse than Maggot Ur or what is name was.
00:09:33 <oerjan> *his
00:09:41 <elliott> dagoth ur.
00:10:03 * oerjan may intentionally not have tried too hard getting that right
00:10:08 <itidus21> im just smart enough to be annoying
00:10:49 <elliott> "Why Systems Programmers Still Use C, and What to Do About It (bitc-lang.org)" in /r/programming. i can't _wait_ to see the comments.
00:11:38 * itidus21 hesitates to try to remember the name of ur's lang. elma.. esme!
00:11:49 <elliott> "Interesting article, but he misses the right answer: if it isn't broken, don't fix it.
00:11:49 <elliott> C may not be the easiest language to learn, but you wouldn't want newbies messing with systems programming anyway."
00:11:58 <elliott> i wish i was wrong occasionally.
00:12:13 <elliott> "Yes, I agree. If I had to improve C, I would add new types with more precise characteristics. Like int16, int32, and int64, for instance."
00:12:16 <elliott> djhdfklghsdjklfghsdfjklghldfkgf
00:12:28 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: pikhq_: One of you has a chainsaw, right?
00:12:37 <elliott> I have some murdering to do.
00:14:09 <oerjan> here borrow this one (O)######
00:14:54 <elliott> thank you.
00:15:06 <elliott> i warn you that i cannot guarantee any redditor will survive my onslaught.
00:15:24 <itidus21> this guy sounds like he enjoys it
00:15:44 <itidus21> "The BitC goal isn't to invent a new language or any new language concepts. It is to integrate existing concepts with advances in prover technology, and reify them in a language that allows us to build stateful low-level systems codes that we can reason about in varying measure using automated tools."
00:16:47 <elliott> "Biagioni's remarkable success with a TCP/IP implementation in Standard ML [3] is sometimes used to support the contention that the compiler can manage representation issues. Derby's technical report [8] is more revealing. On interactive traffic, FoxNet achieves 0.00007 times the performance of the then-current UNIX network stack. That is not a typo."
00:16:48 <elliott> Yow
00:18:40 -!- HashBot has joined.
00:18:47 <elliott> oerjan:
00:18:57 <elliott> suggest HashB*!*@*
00:19:06 <elliott> or HashB*!*@82.* i suppose
00:19:12 <elliott> HashBot: hi
00:19:16 <elliott> #foo
00:19:17 <elliott> !foo
00:19:23 <elliott> HashBot: frends
00:19:35 <coppro> what is foxnet in this context?
00:20:24 -!- HashBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:20:24 <elliott> coppro: the name of the implementation, presumably
00:20:36 <elliott> yeah
00:20:40 <elliott> E. Biagioni. ``A Structured TCP in Standard ML.'' Proc. SIGCOMM 1994. pp. 36–45. 1994.
00:20:40 <elliott> H. Derby. The Performance of FoxNet 2.0. CMU Technical Report CMU-CS-99-137. 1999.
00:20:41 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
00:20:42 <elliott> i guess
00:20:56 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b HashB!*@*.
00:21:18 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b HashB*!*@82.*.
00:21:28 -!- derdon_ has joined.
00:21:28 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
00:23:39 <elliott> there are an awful lot of bans
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00:26:01 <elliott> hi again
00:26:22 <Maharba> Hi.
00:27:12 <Maharba> Should we get started with the featured template and page?
00:27:37 <elliott> well, like i said the current main page design doesn't really support it at all.
00:27:51 <elliott> i already have a more "modular" incomplete design scribbled somewhere on my hard disk, though...
00:31:10 <Maharba> If the template is plain text (main page formats it), then we could do the template stuff now.
00:31:52 <elliott> what would be put on it, if it's just plain text of the featured language?
00:32:46 <Maharba> Hm...alright, how about making Esolang:Featured languages now?
00:33:01 <ais523> what's HashBot trying to do anyway?
00:33:14 <ais523> and why would someone spam #esoteric from a phone?
00:33:26 <ais523> if it dodges the ban, someone ctcp version it next time it's here
00:33:35 <itidus21> lol ais... he's joining sporadically.. it can't be had!
00:33:36 <oerjan> collecting words to hash for its huge rainbow database
00:33:36 <elliott> ais523: it's not a phone
00:33:41 <elliott> it's in the croatia IP range
00:33:42 <itidus21> oh
00:33:54 <ais523> elliott: it's in the O2 range inside that, though
00:33:59 <elliott> ais523: oh, it is?
00:34:00 <ais523> and you were on a phon when you were there
00:34:03 <ais523> *phone
00:34:04 <ais523> yep
00:34:08 <elliott> well, O2 don't just do phones.
00:34:22 <elliott> since another person was asking about it in #freenode, i presume it's joining an awful lot of channels.
00:34:47 <oerjan> elliott: i think fizzie was pointing out you have visited from the very same range
00:35:01 <ais523> yep
00:35:13 <elliott> well, the large range oerjan used, sure
00:35:17 <itidus21> it makes no apparent attempt to hide itself... it could just be called bobman
00:35:19 <ais523> elliott: no, the narrow range too
00:35:34 <elliott> hmm, right, it is in the O2 range
00:35:38 <itidus21> not like a hashbot needs to be named hashbot..
00:35:39 <elliott> how strange
00:36:06 <oerjan> elliott: are you _sure_ your secret iphone ai hasn't escaped?
00:36:13 <itidus21> and why does it join and leave hahaha..
00:36:44 <elliott> oerjan: hey, that's a secret!
00:36:47 <itidus21> what the hell does "* HashB has quit (Excess Flood)" mean .. rhetorical
00:37:03 <itidus21> i could look up that term if i needed to know
00:37:31 <oerjan> itidus21: it means it keeps getting kicked off for talking too much
00:37:48 <itidus21> ahh
00:37:54 <elliott> not talking
00:37:56 <elliott> more likely joining
00:38:36 <itidus21> it could be whois'ing everyone i suppose
00:38:47 -!- Maharba has quit (Quit: Page closed).
00:39:16 <ais523> itidus21: that'd be SendQ exceeded
00:39:22 <itidus21> ahh
00:39:32 <ais523> the difference is that excess flood is if you're sending too much for the server, and sendq is if you're trying to make the server send too much back to you
00:53:02 -!- Maharba has joined.
00:56:33 <elliott> wow, somehow i broke mediawiki's preview.
00:57:17 -!- Maharba_ has joined.
00:57:19 <elliott> ais523: you're not meant to be able to move the edit form outside of the content div by supplying MediaWiki with some wikitext to preview, right...?
00:57:36 <ais523> elliott: not sure, but I guess not
00:57:50 <Maharba_> What did you give it???
00:57:50 <Sgeo> elliott, did you get wget working as you need?
00:58:06 <Maharba_> Hey, how am I logged in twice?
00:58:09 <elliott> Maharba_: some wikitext with some slightly unbalanced divs
00:58:19 <oerjan> it's not a proper esolang Main Page unless it breaks time and space.
00:58:21 <elliott> and probably one of the connections got lost on your end, but the connection hasn't timed out on the server end yet
00:59:20 -!- Maharba has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
00:59:34 <Maharba_> There we go.
01:00:08 -!- Maharba_ has quit (Client Quit).
01:00:36 -!- Maharba has joined.
01:03:20 <elliott> if you register your nickname, you can reclaim it without having to wait for it to ping out
01:03:32 <Maharba> How do I do that?
01:04:53 <Sgeo> elliott, do you like BZFlag?
01:05:05 <elliott> Maharba: /msg nickserv register passwordiwant myemail@address
01:05:13 <elliott> (it sends a confirmation email)
01:06:05 <Maharba> Thanks.
01:09:08 <elliott> The design seems to be progressing nicely.
01:09:12 <elliott> Though you can never tell with these things.
01:09:37 <coppro> yeah, nickserv is a solid design
01:10:37 <oerjan> i don't think there was a confirmation email back in my time.
01:10:48 <elliott> coppro: I wasn't referring to NickServ :P
01:11:00 <elliott> oerjan: I think it came with the switch to the new software, perhaps?
01:12:18 <oerjan> hm well nickserv _does_ have my email.
01:12:21 <oerjan> somehow.
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01:13:29 <elliott> it was always an optional parameter
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01:16:51 <elliott> sneak preview: http://ompldr.org/vZDJscw
01:17:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:18:54 <elliott> feedback welcome, as long as it's not "hey, three of the boxes are the same colour" :P
01:18:58 <oerjan> i'm sorry, i cannot comment on it due to conflict of interest.
01:19:24 <elliott> oerjan: EXCUSE ME! I wrote that blurb specially for you!
01:19:32 <oerjan> well, it _was_ a lot of green.
01:19:48 <elliott> I haven't coloured the other boxes yet >_<
01:19:58 <elliott> I chose green for the gradient thing at the top since it's the trilime colour.
01:20:04 <oerjan> aha
01:20:50 <elliott> i'm a bit worried that this design so far is rather _less_ useful to a new person coming into the wiki
01:21:01 <Maharba> I like it. Not sure about having a background gradient, though.
01:21:29 <elliott> since (a) it doesn't actually explain what an esolang is straight off, and (b) it's not really clear where to go to from the first paragraph
01:21:42 <Maharba> If you're worried about new people, just copy over the "This wiki is dedicated to the fostering and documentation of programming languages designed to be unique, difficult to program in, or just plain weird. Here's how you can explore this wiki." part.
01:21:45 <elliott> perhaps the core introductory material in the "as a reader" should come before the 2x2 box layout...
01:21:55 <elliott> Maharba: indeed, i might. felt like it might be a bit noisy
01:22:54 <elliott> i might drop the gradient if it ends up overlapping with the interface tabs, which i fear it might.
01:23:49 <Maharba> I have a mild dislike of gradients in general.
01:24:11 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: Without enjoyment of our matrix of solidity, it is but a pale imitation of main pages of yore.
01:24:32 <elliott> Maharba: Pfft. Without gradients and rounded corners, how can anyone trust you?
01:24:40 <elliott> You might be stuck on Web 1.0.
01:25:00 <oerjan> you have to gradually get their trust
01:25:02 <zzo38> I suggest not changing the colors of the Classic and Nostalgia skins (or of any other skins that you are not going to test the new colors with).
01:25:20 <oerjan> so that you can defraud them
01:25:27 <Maharba> They just make the design crowded and noisy relative to straight lines and solid colors (such as white).
01:25:34 <elliott> zzo38: damn, who told you my secret plan to change the nostalgia skin to purple? :(
01:27:01 <zzo38> elliott: I deduced it.
01:36:45 <elliott> Okay, this is more like it: http://ompldr.org/vZDJseQ
01:36:58 <Maharba> I like.
01:37:37 <quintopia> is there a esolang where the code itself is music?
01:37:40 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: And if I were to, say, hover my mouse over them limes ...
01:37:45 <elliott> quintopia: Tons.
01:37:49 <Maharba> Maybe put the trilime on the other side, so it doesn't conflict with the main logo.
01:38:16 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: They would start to rotate, as "Kaksikymmentäneljätuntiaikakausitämänhetkinen" plays endlessly, overlapping itself with new iterations again and again until it's just white noise.
01:38:35 <elliott> Also they would start to grow and accelerate, so in a minute or so there's just a green blur all over your screen while your ears bleed.
01:38:44 <RocketJSquirrel> Fairly certain that IS my matrix of solidity.
01:39:03 <oerjan> sounds more fluid than solid to me
01:39:14 <elliott> Limes are solid, silly.
01:39:37 -!- Maharba_ has joined.
01:39:52 <elliott> I get the feeling Maharba_'s internet connection isn't terribly reliable.
01:39:59 <oerjan> you'd think.
01:40:11 <elliott> ("/msg nickserv ghost Maharba password" to disconnect the other one, then "/nick Maharba" to change to it.)
01:40:23 <oerjan> i mean, i sometimes use the webchat to get a _more_ reliable connection...
01:40:24 <itidus21> Maharba: Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity.
01:40:31 -!- Maharba has quit (Disconnected by services).
01:40:38 -!- Maharba_ has changed nick to Maharba.
01:41:19 <Maharba> There. I normally have a fairly reliable connection.
01:41:36 <Maharba> So I don't know why I keep losing it.
01:41:41 <quintopia> elliott: what is the name of one?
01:41:59 <elliott> quintopia: Fugue. Velato.
01:42:23 <Maharba> That's two. Quintopia asked for one.
01:42:27 <Sgeo> elliott, tswett monqy upate
01:42:33 <elliott> Yay, a tswett monqy update.
01:42:39 <oerjan> elliott is bad at following instructions.
01:42:40 <elliott> *upate
01:42:51 <elliott> Maharba: I don't want quintopia to get what he wants!
01:42:56 <tswett> Yeah, you haven't tswett monqy upated *once*.
01:43:00 <oerjan> better than a sweat monkey update.
01:43:00 <tswett> Get with the program.
01:43:10 <tswett> Hm... yeah, I have to give that to you.
01:43:21 <zzo38> quintopia: Fugue, Musical-X, and also see the list of ideas.
01:43:34 <Maharba> elliot: What do you think of moving the main page trilime to the right as before?
01:43:48 <Maharba> *elliott:
01:46:15 <oerjan> indeed, that would clash with the default to the left on _all_ pages...
01:46:31 <elliott> Maharba: Yeah, I just tried that; the problem is that the "This wiki is dedicated to the fostering and documentation of programming languages designed to be unique, difficult to program in, or just plain weird." paragraph gets a really large bottom margin if you do that.
01:46:39 <elliott> Since the logo is bigger than it (and it doesn't scale nicely).
01:46:53 <elliott> Not sure. Might keep it. Might try and shrink the logo to a size it doesn't look ugly at...
01:47:34 <Maharba> oerjan: I'm not talking about the logo that is always to the left, I'm talking about the additional trilime on the main page.
01:47:54 <oerjan> Maharba: i'm saying that those would clash if they were next to each other
01:48:25 <Maharba> That's my point.
01:48:31 <elliott> Duplicating the logo on the main page is really silly anyway, it's a cheap hack to make it look a bit fancier :P
01:48:40 <elliott> But an effective cheap hack!
01:49:49 <oerjan> giant trilime background. best idea?
01:49:58 <Maharba> Worst.
01:50:04 <Maharba> Well, not *worst*, but...
01:50:27 <Maharba> Why is the logo the trilime anyway?
01:51:20 <oerjan> the limes were kidnapped by hysterical raisins
01:52:20 <elliott> Maharba: That is a question many have asked, and few have answered.
01:52:34 <elliott> Apparently Graue just found the picture and liked it.
01:53:00 <elliott> It was on MediaWiki Commons but later deleted due to licensing reasons, which troubles me somewhat.
01:53:08 <oerjan> it makes the whole page look su*hit by falling anvil*
01:53:21 <Maharba> elliott: You uploaded the trilime file, not Graue.
01:53:45 <elliott> Maharba: It was already the wiki logo since 2005.
01:53:53 <elliott> It was just in a MediaWiki path.
01:54:01 <Maharba> Oh, I see.
01:54:02 <elliott> I uploaded it so it could be used on the main page (which only uploaded images can).
01:54:24 <elliott> Then when the wiki moved over, I just reused the uploaded version as the logo path.
01:54:39 <Maharba> I can't think of a logo that would make sense, so we might as well stick with the trilime.
01:56:20 <RocketJSquirrel> Instead of trying to find a logo that makes sense, we should make an esolang that has a lot to do with three and limeness, to make trilime relevant.
01:57:17 <Maharba> Go right ahead.
01:57:40 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ehird/Main_Page First draft.
01:57:45 <elliott> (Or thereabouts.)
01:58:22 <Maharba> Aw, no trilime?
01:58:49 <elliott> I removed it until I can figure out where it should go.
01:59:11 <Maharba> What about centering the "Welcome to esolang"?
01:59:30 <elliott> A background trilime might actually be a decent idea; if it was enlarged, made translucent, and went in the corner, it could just get hidden behind the boxes.
01:59:49 <elliott> Maharba: Tried that, made the "This wiki..." paragraph look weird. (Centring that paragraph too makes it look weirder.)
02:00:02 <elliott> I suppose I could center the div they appear in and then center the "Welcome ..." in that... I'll give it a try.
02:00:07 <Maharba> How about indenting, then?
02:00:22 <Maharba> Or tricks work.
02:00:45 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: In my previous experience, enlarged trilime = terrible trilime.
02:01:20 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: You have... enlarged the trilime before?
02:01:22 <elliott> Dare I ask why?
02:02:47 <elliott> I suppose I should note that RocketJSquirrel is Gregor for Maharba's sake :P
02:03:03 <RocketJSquirrel> Hello, I am Gregor for Maharba's sake.
02:03:27 <Maharba> Hi, Gregor for Maharba's sake.
02:03:34 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: I don't recall, to be frank.
02:03:56 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Well, I did find the original source of the trilime (it's considerably larger).
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02:04:37 <elliott> It was known as "Three cut limes" in primitive times.
02:04:53 -!- Maharba has quit (Quit: Dinnertime.).
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02:06:52 <RocketJSquirrel> Aha
02:08:06 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Unfortunately finding that source again is a pain >_>
02:08:10 <elliott> It was a shady Wiki-mirror.
02:08:25 <elliott> !logs
02:11:39 <elliott> Apparently I never linked it in the logs >_>
02:13:29 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ehird/Main_Page I think I broke it.
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02:52:19 <elliott> hi
02:52:26 <Maharba> Hi.
02:53:00 <Maharba> Finalized the main page design yet?
02:54:03 <elliott> Not quite.
02:54:16 <elliott> Relatedly, someone remind me to remember to remove the bot flag from my account once I'm done with it, or I'll be invisible in recentchanges forever...
02:55:25 <Maharba> Not invisible, just hiding.
03:00:12 <elliott> There need to be more colours. I'm commissioning RocketJSquirrel to create some new colours.
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03:04:07 <elliott> Hi ferret. Bye ferret.
03:06:29 <elliott> Blue, green, yellow... it sure would be great if more colours existed.
03:06:40 <elliott> "The following is a comprehensive list of colors." -- Wikipedia
03:07:03 <elliott> Unfortunately, it is not a listing of every single wavelength on the visible spectrum.
03:08:37 <Maharba> That would be infinite.
03:09:45 <Maharba> You haven't used blue yet.
03:12:18 <Sgeo> Would it be infinite?
03:12:23 <elliott> Maharba: The top-left of http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ehird/Main_Page is blue.
03:12:25 <elliott> Or lilac, anyway.
03:12:45 <Sgeo> Or is there a smallest quantity of difference between wavelengths?
03:12:46 <elliott> Sgeo: Ask fizzie, he answered that the last time kallisti asked it. :p
03:13:01 <Maharba> Looks purple to me.
03:13:13 <Maharba> Maybe try orange?
03:13:43 <elliott> Well, lilac is bluey purple. :p
03:13:55 <elliott> Maybe a pink.
03:14:05 <Maharba> Nah, try orange.
03:14:18 <Maharba> It's a citrus like lime.
03:14:38 <elliott> Orange is basically pink!
03:14:48 <elliott> Sort of!
03:14:49 <Maharba> ...
03:15:26 <Maharba> I would be recommending green (my favorite color), but it's already in use.
03:16:39 <elliott> I would say the yellow is bordering on orange anyway. But I'm trying orange.
03:23:48 <elliott> How're the colours on http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ehird/Main_Page
03:23:56 -!- Canaimero-bdc has joined.
03:24:01 <elliott> `welcome Canaimero-bdc
03:24:05 <HackEgo> Canaimero-bdc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
03:27:33 <Maharba> I'd put the yellow on Featured language.
03:28:01 <elliott> Might be a good idea. I picked green for it because it's the colour of the trilime. (Can you sense a pattern?)
03:30:20 <shachaf> elliott
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03:31:17 <elliott> shachaf
03:31:28 <ion> ellichaf
03:31:47 <shachaf> Mmm, shallots.
03:31:53 <shachaf> Just the right number of 't's in that word.
03:36:24 <elliott> Maharba: There we go: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ehird/Main_Page
03:36:42 <elliott> Apart from fleshing out the content of the boxes a bit, I think the lilac needs brightening and the red needs to look less salmon... other than that I'm happy with the colours.
03:37:38 <Maharba> Lilac brightening and maybe slightly more saturation would be good. I think then we just need the Featured language template before it can overwrite the current Main Page.
03:39:08 <elliott> I'd rather add a little more material to the boxes first, but yes, it's close.
03:39:31 <Maharba> What more material?
03:39:58 <Maharba> What else does it need?
03:40:03 <elliott> Not sure. The bottom ones are just so small. :p
03:40:07 <elliott> Also I don't really like the list presentation in some of them.
03:41:09 <Maharba> Maybe change the list of categories link to Esolang:Categorization (better organized).
03:42:12 <elliott> Yes, agreed.
03:45:00 <Maharba> You could add the help page in Editor or Meta.
03:46:03 <elliott> Agreed. I fixed the lilac: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ehird/Main_Page
03:50:30 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ehird/Main_Page Okay, this is looking good. Still need to tweak the red and make the "for readers" section less listy, but I like this.
03:50:49 <elliott> Oh, I should add back the IRC plug.
03:50:51 <elliott> (Did anyone even notice that?)
04:06:22 <Maharba> Is the link to main page talk useful?
04:06:48 <elliott> Probably not, I added it as a cheap joke in that it's the most meta possible entry there :P
04:06:52 <elliott> (Except a link to the main page itself, I suppose.)
04:07:24 <Maharba> Main page itself would be funnier.
04:08:45 <elliott> Hmm, there's some brokenness when I try to link to the main page itself...
04:08:46 * elliott fixes.
04:10:05 <shachaf> elliott `fix` it
04:10:16 <shachaf> Whoa, man, infix fixed-point combinator.
04:10:52 <shachaf> > let fa f 0 = 1; fa f n = n * f (n-1) in fa `fix` 5
04:10:53 <lambdabot> 120
04:11:19 <elliott> That's kind of nice, actually.
04:12:11 <elliott> Does anyone have a problem with me unilaterally declaring /// the first featured language so I can put this thing up? :p
04:12:20 <Maharba> No problem.
04:12:51 <elliott> Okay, give me a few minutes to get the templates and whatnot set up and it'll go live.
04:15:20 <shachaf> elliott: Can you write me a really simple interactive untyped lambda calculus interpreter?
04:16:39 <elliott> shachaf: No.
04:17:10 <shachaf> elliott: For teaching purposes!
04:17:15 <shachaf> You like teaching, right?
04:19:16 <elliott> "Despite this, it is surprisingly Turing-complete" -- this reads awkwardly. :(
04:24:31 <Maharba> Despite this, it still manages to be Turing-complete
04:24:39 <elliott> Yes, that's better.
04:24:48 <elliott> Especially the idea of a language actively trying to be TC :)
04:25:11 <shachaf> Surprisingly, it is still surprisingly Turing-complete. Surprise!
04:25:39 <shachaf> "How Turing-complete is that language?" "It's surprisingly Turing-complete! Several times the Turing-completeness I expected it to be."
04:26:34 <zzo38> Someone made up this definition of a planet: It orbits a star, and it is possible to park the Starship Enterprise into an orbit around it.
04:29:54 <elliott> Maharba: By the way, the selection process I came up with while discussing with oerjan earlier was that anyone could propose a single language that they didn't create in a simple list. Whenever it's time to switch over, an admin will select one according to a set of guidelines (that oerjan came up with; basically requiring the article to be well-written, preferably with examples and an implementation, favouring variety of themes, etc.), write a b
04:29:54 <elliott> lurb, and feature it; they'll then remove it from the list. Periodically (less often than the featured language changes), the list will be blanked, and everyone can suggest again (as long as it's not the same language as last time). The reasoning behind this is that it's nice that people can just propose them without having to specifically propose them for a certain two-week cycle or the like, and there's no reason to invalidate previous suggesti
04:29:55 <elliott> ons because a different good one was picked; but that having an indefinitely-growing list is not practical, and specifically removing entries that aren't any good would just create friction.
04:30:18 <elliott> That keeps the required effort for everyone very low, while keeping the candidate selection democratic.
04:31:08 <Maharba> Okay. I think people should be also allowed to comment on suggestions.
04:32:35 <elliott> I considered that, but thought it'd probably get noisy. Feedback like "the article needs improvements" is useful, but criticism of the language itself won't really help much; there don't really seem to be many esolangs that the community wildly disagrees on the value of, so it seems like it would usually be redundant. But I'm not certain.
04:33:17 <elliott> I mean, it seems like proposing a language you like better would generally be more useful than criticising an existing suggestion.
04:35:04 <Maharba> Just stuff like "I'd like this one featured because it has such-and-such" or "The article for this one could use some more examples—don't feature it just yet"
04:36:00 <elliott> Well, the guidelines will be written up, so people will know what an article should have to get featured. But I'll think about it. Not like there's been *any* suggestions yet, anyway; back to templates...
04:36:27 <zzo38> Do you think mathematics is science? Do you think philosophy is science?
04:38:00 <Maharba> zzo38: No to each.
04:38:44 <zzo38> Maharba: I agree; my answer is also no to both questions.
04:40:13 <zzo38> Many people say mathematics is science; I disagree. Among other things, mathematics is more exact than science.
04:41:10 <Maharba> And relies on logical proof rather than testing of theories by experiment.
04:41:28 <zzo38> Yes, that too.
04:44:35 <elliott> I daresay not every mathematician personally verifies every single one of the proofs their work depends on.
04:44:54 <elliott> The pure methods are different, but neither mathematics nor science are practiced in a vacuum, and they use the same infrastructure of peer review.
04:45:09 <elliott> So I rather think mathematics looks a lot more like science in practice than it does in theory.
04:45:39 <elliott> Indeed, you could call verifying someone's proof "repeating their experiment"....
04:46:09 <Maharba> Except that they are fundamentally different concepts.
04:47:01 <elliott> Like I said: the study itself is vastly different. But the framework surrounding them makes them look a lot more similar.
04:47:20 <Maharba> Fair enough.
04:47:47 <Maharba> How about the distinction between engineering and science?
04:50:11 <elliott> I think engineering is an activity that involves the application of science: not two directly comparable concepts, but one a utilisation of the other.
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05:46:43 <Sgeo> monqy, elliott tswett UPDATE
05:46:49 <monqy> hi
05:46:59 <elliott> aaand the new main page is live
05:47:01 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
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05:50:08 <elliott> Sgeo: monqy: :'(
05:50:14 <monqy> hi
05:50:21 <monqy> new main page you say
05:50:23 <monqy> sure is new
05:51:19 <elliott> is it
05:51:20 <elliott> beautiful
05:53:24 <monqy> it's
05:53:25 <monqy> deja vu
05:54:51 <elliott> monqy: where's the deja vu,,,
05:54:58 <monqy> the main page
05:55:02 <monqy> its a daej vue
05:55:25 <elliott> why,e
05:55:29 <monqy> i dont know???
05:55:38 <elliott> :'(
05:55:51 <elliott> i think wikipedia's main page looked similar circa 2004????
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06:02:44 <elliott> We really need a page that links to "miscellany" like [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] and [[EsoInterpreters]].
06:08:49 <calamari> elliott: a suggestion.. in the "for readers" section.. "Firstly, ... first place" uses "first" twice, consider changing at least one?
06:09:15 <kmc> i'm running 'dieharder', a suite of PRNG statistical tests
06:09:22 <kmc> one test is that it simulates 200,000 games of craps
06:09:38 <elliott> calamari: Hmm... is "in the first place" a UK idiom? Probably a good idea.
06:10:14 <elliott> "find out what an esoteric programming language is in the first place" ~ "find out what on earth an 'esoteric programming language' is" ~ "find out what an esoteric programming language *is*, anyway" ~ etc.
06:10:26 <elliott> So the "firsts" aren't really sharing a meaning there :P
06:10:51 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I think you will find the new main page appropriately... solid.
06:12:21 <elliott> calamari: I removed the "Firstly,"
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06:17:14 <elliott> Someone convince me not to make [[Deadfish]] my candidate.
06:17:23 <elliott> I shouldn't, because if I do I won't be able to stop myself from choosing it.
06:18:04 <Sgeo> Canditate for what?
06:19:21 <Sgeo> Most implemented language?
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06:20:01 <elliott> See http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Featured_languages.
06:21:25 <Sgeo> What is so great about Deadfish
06:21:37 <elliott> Sgeo: What? Are you kidding?
06:21:44 <elliott> Deadfish is the greatest programming language ever.
06:23:25 <elliott> Hmm, why doesn't http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Featured_languages list ///?
06:29:42 <zzo38> elliott: OK; don't make [[Deadfish]] your candidate.
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06:33:27 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/696_(number) This just in from Wikipedia...
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06:56:36 <elliott> @tell oerjan Thank you for that list of rules, by the way; they turned into my featured language selection guidelines.
06:56:36 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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07:01:10 <elliott> monqy: Is the new ESOLANG MAIN PAGE as BEAUTIFUL AS YOUTH?
07:01:25 <monqy> nothing is as beautiful as youth
07:02:04 <Sgeo> elliott, if a language is submitted once by one person, and doesn't make the cut, can it be submitted again by a different person, or is that it?
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07:12:47 <elliott> Sgeo: Oh, that policy is worded badly.
07:13:06 <elliott> Clarified: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Featured_languages/Candidates
07:14:36 <Sgeo> I should be learning to sleep
07:14:57 <Sgeo> Especially considering that on Wednesday...
07:15:06 <Sgeo> </personal-info>
07:15:27 <Sgeo> elliott, ok, thanks
07:16:23 <itidus20> i think <a1 b1="c1" b2="c2" bN="cN"> </a1> type notation as seen in html is very clever.. but what i wonder about is how safe it is to use such a language without paying anyone
07:16:59 <itidus20> ^type of notation
07:17:15 <ion> Yeah, you really should pay me to be safe.
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07:17:48 <Sgeo> Hmm, I can imagine if someone were cyberstalking me and saw that line, they'd fear for my stability.
07:18:23 <elliott> Most internet users have something known as a sense of humour.
07:18:25 <itidus20> i think you underestimate the tenacity of a crazed cyberstalker
07:18:32 <elliott> They'll doubt your stability for completely unrelated reasons!
07:18:39 <elliott> Also, do you really think he needs to know about XML?
07:18:55 <itidus20> i know "of" it..
07:20:19 <itidus20> i don't like it though.. i think it brought problems with software patents more into public eye when microsoft got sued over that xml patent thing in word
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07:37:25 <elliott> hi ais523
07:37:36 <ais523> hi elliott
07:37:37 <elliott> the esowiki, err, changed a fair amount since you were last here
07:37:45 <ais523> that sounds worrying
07:37:47 <elliott> you have new obligations now! (technically)
07:37:52 <ais523> I haven't even been asleep since then!
07:38:01 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page is probably the easiest place to start.
07:38:34 <ais523> actually, I was reading the history in my RSS reader
07:38:37 <ais523> which is normally how I read Esolang
07:38:54 <elliott> yes, it's just that there's an awful lot of history this time :)
07:38:56 <elliott> also, that's cheating!
07:39:01 <elliott> you'll know why it happens before the what.
07:40:20 <elliott> ais523 doesn't know the crime of being wikipsychic :'(
07:40:54 <ais523> it was pretty similar on Wikipedia, btw; things rarely took me by surprise because I had a habit of reading the relevant discussion pages
07:41:05 <ais523> although obviously I couldn't read every edit to the whole wiki
07:44:08 <elliott> i'm sure some have tried
07:44:51 <elliott> by the way, since the main page's title is hidden now and i just redesigned it, i may be unusually susceptible to arguments that it should be moved to [[Esolang:Main page]].
07:45:16 <ais523> it's only Esolang, I don't really care
07:45:23 <ais523> well, I sort-of do, but most of my arguments don't apply
07:45:46 <elliott> did you /really care/ on Wikipedia? /really/?
07:46:54 <ais523> hmm… "don't really" is not actually an absolute opposite of "really"
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07:48:29 <elliott> */really/ care, then
07:50:31 <elliott> "Additionally, the decision states that there is no opportunity for a further appeal to Jimbo Wales if the Committee is reviewing a ban originally imposed by Jimbo Wales." -- I was wrong about Jimbo being the final appeals process for ArbCom
07:50:43 <elliott> Jimbo is the final appeals process for ArbCom, except when ArbCom is serving as the final appeals process for Jimbo
07:51:03 <elliott> have I mentioned I'm reading this Wikipedia metanonsense for pure entertainment?
07:51:21 <ais523> it is pretty entertaining, indeed
07:51:29 <ais523> although I don't think that's its intended purpose
07:51:59 <elliott> anyway, now I just have to set up a situation whereby an ArbCom decision's final appeal process is Jimbo /and vice versa/ simultaneously
07:52:13 <elliott> then Jimbo will have to become the ArbCom to resolve it
07:52:16 <elliott> well, or vice versa
07:52:24 <ais523> clearly you need Jimbo and ArbCom to ban the same person simultaneously and independently
07:52:32 <ais523> although I suspect that would simply just leave them with no appeals at all
07:52:47 <elliott> i think that's fairly decisive as these things go
07:53:09 <elliott> no, we need ArbCom and Jimbo to both take non-opposite, but contradictory actions to resolve the same situation simultaneously
07:53:31 <elliott> that way, nobody knows what to do, and they aren't in agreement
07:57:40 <ais523> "There are 4,507 registered users, but most of them are spambots."
07:58:19 <ais523> elliott: hmm, I remember the case where there were community sanctions on someone, and arbcom agreed with them, then later converted them to a simple ban because nobody could figure out what they meant
07:59:01 <elliott> ais523: yes, i realise that a 1:4 article:user ratio would be rather unlikely :)
07:59:16 <ais523> I was just amused at the statistic
07:59:44 <elliott> I'm interested in feedback on the featured languages process, btw
08:00:14 <elliott> I tried to keep it as low-overhead as possible, but I still have a feeling submissions will completely stagnate, leaving it up to mostly the whims of the admin updating it (which is basically what i proposed to start with anyway)
08:01:47 <elliott> ais523: hey, you have an anonymised google: are we really the top result for "Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity."?
08:02:00 <elliott> because, I mean... I hope so
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08:02:15 <ais523> well, it's still probably going to try to geolocate me
08:02:45 <ais523> but we are, indeed
08:03:04 <elliott> right, it's just that google knows I've clicked esolangs.org a lot
08:03:07 <ais523> a page about Graue is third, and the logs of this channel are fourth
08:03:08 <elliott> from results
08:03:15 <elliott> indeed, that matches what i see too
08:03:21 <ais523> none of the other results on that page look relevant
08:03:22 <elliott> the graue page is just his realname from the whois of the domain
08:03:25 <elliott> voxelperfect that is
08:03:26 <ais523> this is without quotes, btw
08:03:30 <elliott> ditto
08:03:32 <ais523> elliott: yes, I guessed it was autogenerated
08:03:42 <ais523> btw, have you looked at the link in the topic?
08:03:46 <ais523> not the logs link, the other one
08:03:47 <elliott> yes
08:03:57 <elliott> before you ask, it's pornography, and also warez
08:04:01 <ais523> but I have
08:04:03 <ais523> and it isn't
08:04:06 <elliott> what, before checking?!
08:05:47 <ais523> it had been there for a while
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08:06:02 <ais523> and I trust Gregor to that extent
08:06:20 <ais523> I mean, he could just as easily put warez and pornography on codu.org
08:06:25 <ais523> well, maybe not quite as easily
08:06:50 -!- itidus22 has changed nick to itidus20.
08:08:07 <elliott> I know *I* put warez and pornography on codu.org.
08:09:04 <zzo38> elliott: I wouldn't expect it to be your job to put anything on codu.org, I thought that was Gregor's job.
08:09:37 <elliott> It was covert.
08:12:01 <elliott> ais523: btw, *did* you have any comments on the featured language process, or are you still reading the changes?
08:12:16 <ais523> elliott: meh
08:12:50 <elliott> ais523: i made the best of a bad situation :P
08:13:27 <elliott> ais523: btw, you need to propose [[Deadfish]] as a candidate.
08:13:53 <ais523> no!
08:14:25 <elliott> ais523: what?!
08:14:36 <elliott> are you saying Deadfish _isn't_ the greatest programming language ever designed?
08:14:54 <ais523> yes!
08:15:05 <ais523> are /you/ saying @lang isn't the greatest programming language ever designed?
08:15:16 -!- ais523 has left ("before someone mentions Feather").
08:15:26 <elliott> no, that's Feather
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08:16:13 <elliott> ais523: anyway, no, @lang is just the least _sucky_
08:16:24 <elliott> deadfish comes from a position where there is no suck.
08:16:28 <elliott> like it's at the suck pole.
08:16:33 <elliott> all it is, is greatness.
08:17:42 <itidus20> apparently @lang < (0,sucky]
08:18:20 <itidus20> oops..
08:18:53 <itidus20> i got confused about which lang but lets just pretend i didnt try to use math
08:18:55 <elliott> ok i'll just get oerjan to propose deadfish then.
08:18:58 <elliott> "sheesh", as they say.
08:35:59 <zzo38> I am working on TeXnicard a bit now, and I realize, one of the paragraphs mentions bad luck, and that names mentioned in the index include: Damian Conway, Bryce Courtenay, David Fuchs, Israel Houghton, Ron Luce, George Marsaglia, Martin Pool, and Steve Smith. However, Donald Knuth's name is not in there. Perhaps it should be, if it has algorithms which are based on his algorithms?
08:38:00 <zzo38> (My name is not in there either)
08:38:45 <zzo38> The index of TeX: The Program mentions Hercule Poirot.
08:51:10 <zzo38> Actually, in my program, Donald Knuth is mentioned in the bibliography, just not in the index.
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10:27:59 <elliott> ais523: helpful tip to write a wikipedia article about yourself: make three copies of the exact same article with different content, one of which will be deleted as copyvio, contest the speedying of only one of the remaining ones, then post it as a new section on [[Talk:Main Page]] once they get deleted
10:28:25 <ais523> I don't think that would work :)
10:28:34 <elliott> doesn't mean you can't try!
10:28:43 <ais523> did someone just try that on Wikipedia? or on Esolang?
10:28:49 <elliott> wikipedia. esolang would be more amusing
10:28:58 <elliott> this lead me to discover that none of the scary warning templates support telling someone you've speedy-tagged _three_ of your articles.
10:29:07 <elliott> so i had to edit the pluralisation in after the fact.
10:29:12 <elliott> *of their
10:29:24 <ais523> elliott: it's usual to send three scary warnings in response to that
10:29:33 <ais523> I'm not sure if it's /correct/, or even if there's a point
10:29:35 <ais523> but it's usual
10:29:35 <elliott> but they're the same article!
10:29:45 <ais523> yes but it's like three clicks in Twinkle!
10:29:49 <elliott> heh
10:29:54 <elliott> in fact, I should have pluralised "page" but not "article"
10:30:29 <elliott> ok, I'm feeling very *Wikipedia*, time to move the main page to Esolang:Main page
10:30:33 <elliott> (the wikipedia main page, naturally)
10:30:40 <elliott> that /is/ the correct name for Esolang, right?
10:31:29 <ais523> there is something kind of horrifyingly awesome about that
10:31:38 <ais523> lowercase p on "Main page"? wouldn't uppercase be better?
10:31:55 <ais523> note that we'll still need a redirect from the old location pretty much forever
10:31:58 <elliott> ais523: the sidebar entry is "Main page", and the default community portal page was changed to [[Project:Community portal]]
10:31:59 <elliott> from Portal
10:32:08 <elliott> so i presume it's the intended capitalisation of pages like that
10:32:17 <ais523> fair enough
10:32:34 <elliott> and yes, right up until I invent my esolang Main Page
10:32:39 <ais523> my suggestion on Wikipedia was "Portal:Main", but "Esolang:Main" doesn't make sense
10:33:04 <ais523> actually, my real preferred solution was to rename it to the null string
10:33:09 <ais523> but apparently MediaWiki doesn't support that
10:33:11 <elliott> I wish MW used /wiki/ as the URL for the main page, so it didn't expose the title
10:33:14 <elliott> heh, pseudo-snap
10:33:27 <elliott> probably I could make it do that with some kind of hook, but: blergh
10:33:36 <elliott> still, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Main_page is a really ugly url.
10:33:48 <ais523> it's kind-of ugly even without the Esolang:
10:34:18 <elliott> that's true
10:34:43 <elliott> but http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page at least makes /sense/, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Main_page is massively redundant and has a random colon in it
10:35:38 <fizzie> I suggest something like http://esolangs.org/wiki/wiki.php/Esolang:Main_page?namespace=Esolang&title=Main_page&wiki=esolangs, if you can manage it.
10:36:48 <elliott> http://www14.esolangs.org/load.pl?/cgi-bin/esolang/mediawiki/wiki.phtml?title=Esolang:Main_page&PHPSESSID=59aa95ad46cd67d82ba0f812407326dd
10:37:17 <ais523> and it fails with any other PHPSESSID?
10:37:28 <ais523> or just redirects you to the correct one :)
10:37:28 <elliott> ais523: naturally; load.pl is a load balancer
10:37:35 <elliott> ais523: the PHPSESSID is the session of the proxy server
10:37:46 <elliott> this also means that only one person can be logged in at any one time
10:38:14 <ais523> elliott: gah, we have a debugger like that that we're using for our GPU programming
10:38:26 <ais523> only one person across the whole department can debug a GPU program at a time
10:38:29 <elliott> hahaha
10:38:39 <elliott> yes, but do you get to share their debugging?
10:38:43 <ais523> not a licensing restriction, it's a complicated technical restriction
10:38:50 <elliott> with this system, admins just log in, work *really fast*, then log out before anyone can do anything
10:38:56 <ais523> I guess you could use screen or something to do that
10:39:58 <elliott> oh dear, now I'm actually looking at how to override the URL of the main page
10:40:05 <elliott> it looks like they introduced a very convenient hook for it ........... in 1.19
10:43:10 <ais523> this gives you a perfect excuse to procrastinate!
10:43:15 <elliott> if (strpos($url, $wgScript.'?') !== false) {
10:43:29 <elliott> is there a /reason/ to write a conditional like that in PHP?
10:43:32 <elliott> if yes, please don't tell me why
10:43:38 <ais523> elliott: oh, . is string concatenation there?
10:43:43 <elliott> yep
10:43:49 <ais523> I thought it was method invocation for a moment
10:43:54 <ais523> which would have been awesome but worrying
10:44:02 <elliott> handy guide to reading php code: it's like perl but everything's dumb
10:44:24 <ais523> now I want a language that lets you call methods ? and isn't Smalltalk-like
10:44:33 <ais523> (doing it in Smalltalk is too easy)
10:44:37 <ais523> I guess JavaScript does
10:45:03 <ais523> and Lua lets you define them, but I'm not sure offhand if there's any way to call them
10:45:04 <elliott> hmm, I've convinced mediawiki that the URL to the main page is /wiki/
10:45:09 <elliott> but it still redirects that to /wiki/Main_Page
10:47:33 <elliott> wow, look what i did http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
10:47:38 <elliott> in the next 5 seconds before i fix it
10:47:48 <elliott> four
10:47:50 <elliott> three
10:47:51 <elliott> two
10:47:53 <elliott> one
10:47:59 <elliott> you missed your chance
10:48:12 <elliott> "Welcome to Esolang, the wiki!" does have a nice ring to it
10:48:23 <elliott> and "Learn" is an excellent bullet point
10:48:52 <fizzie> "View the".
10:49:04 <fizzie> "Discuss the wiki on the".
10:49:06 <fizzie> I like it.
10:49:10 <fizzie> Well, liked.
10:49:19 <elliott> "Why not ?"
10:49:28 <fizzie> "Otherwise, you could help out with a ."
10:49:53 <fizzie> "You'll probably want to find out what on earth an is in the first place."
10:50:21 <elliott> It's very horse_ebooks.
10:53:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:53:11 -!- ais523_ has joined.
10:53:26 <elliott> wow, Conservapedia runs PHP via CGI
10:53:45 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
10:53:47 <elliott> that's... well... to be expected, I suppsoe
10:53:48 <ais523> how can you tell?
10:53:49 <elliott> *suppose
10:53:53 <elliott> ais523: http://conservapedia.com/Special:Version
10:53:56 -!- Jafet has joined.
10:54:03 <ais523> also, I'm guessing you somehow managed to make all links not show up? or edited them out of the page?
10:54:26 <elliott> i made my function insert an HTML comment whenever it's called upon to talk about a link
10:54:39 <elliott> so it messed up every link, and also forced the TOC into the main page and things like that
10:54:57 <elliott> you say "live production environment" I say "test server"
10:55:11 <fizzie> How does esolang run PHP? FCGI?
10:55:30 <elliott> FastCGI via the php-fpm daemon, plugged into nginx.
10:55:31 <fizzie> Oh, I guess I should've just Special:Version'd.
10:55:51 <elliott> fizzie: Nonono, I'm perfectly happy to gloat about my setup considering the pain it took to set up.
10:56:11 <elliott> Have I mentioned that /w/ doesn't really exist, the relevant scripts are all mapped to a completely different filesystem path?
10:57:43 <elliott> ais523: hey, when's Eurovision?
10:57:53 <ais523> I don't know; Wikipedia probably does
10:57:55 <ais523> it's a good question
10:58:00 <elliott> fizzie: hey, when's Eurovision?
10:58:09 <fizzie> I think it's reasonably soonishly.
10:58:18 <elliott> thanks
10:58:20 <elliott> Deewiant: hey, when's Eurovision?
10:58:21 <ais523> 26 may is the final
10:58:26 <ais523> 22 and 24 may are the semifinals
10:58:29 <ais523> just looked it up
10:58:30 <fizzie> Well, that's not *so* soon.
10:58:35 <fizzie> I would've guessed April.
10:58:42 <elliott> ais523: Thanks, I was looking for a FINNISH QUALITY ANSWER though.
10:58:53 <ais523> it's after NetHack Apocalypse Day, which I really need to prepare for
10:58:59 <elliott> err, what's that?
10:58:59 <fizzie> Though I suppose I should've known, because it was when we were in Paris, and that was probably May.
10:59:16 <ais523> elliott: it's a secret that isn't really all that secret, and I invented the name for it just now
10:59:25 <ais523> but we're planning it for april 1 so that nobody believes it when it happens
10:59:32 <ais523> and so that we can back out of it really easily
11:00:02 <ais523> (fun fact: you can back out of pretty much anything that isn't illegal if you do it on april 1)
11:00:13 <elliott> ais523: nitrohack is being released as nethack 4.0.0?
11:00:17 <elliott> with merged acehack?
11:00:43 <ais523> yes, but it's more complex than that
11:00:47 <elliott> i hope this stunned silence is the silence of TRUTH rather than typing delay
11:00:49 <ais523> and requires the coordination of quite a lot of people
11:00:57 <elliott> ais523: "...without the devteam's consent"?
11:00:59 <ais523> well, 3
11:01:06 <ais523> but that's more than we managed last year
11:01:17 <ais523> I haven't even finished merging NiceHack yet, though
11:01:43 <elliott> Didn't one of the DevTeam complain about the platform support you're dropping? Are you going to kill them?
11:02:30 <elliott> That is the silence of truth again.
11:02:53 <ais523> silence of reading another window, pinging me helps if you want a quick answer
11:03:01 <elliott> No.
11:03:04 <elliott> I prefer it to be the silence of truth.
11:03:21 <ais523> and my solution, unlike daniel_t's, is to say that I'm supporting a small set of platforms to start with just to get something moving, and willing to expand as people willing to test and send in patches are found
11:03:22 <fizzie> Silence of LAMBS.
11:03:37 <ais523> this viewpoint is actually probably equivalent to his, but less controversial
11:04:02 * elliott notes the devteam consent question remains pointedly unanswered.
11:04:15 <ais523> oh, we're not getting their consent for this
11:04:41 <ais523> you know what we really need? someone at Debian to mistake it for not an april fool's thing and package it up
11:05:00 * elliott can't tell how much of an April Fool's Joke this is.
11:05:15 <elliott> You realise Debian are far too serious to let an April Fool's Joke stay in if they realise later, right?
11:07:07 <ais523> they package INTERCAL!
11:07:41 <ais523> and as long as it hits testing with the new major version, they can't subsequently reduce the major version number
11:07:54 <elliott> It won't hit testing.
11:07:55 <ais523> they'd either have to add a majorer version number to let them drop it back down to 3.4.3, or lie and call it 4.4.3 or something
11:08:02 <ais523> well, OK
11:08:37 <elliott> Anyway, I thought you meant you were actually planning a coup.
11:08:42 <elliott> That was more interesting.
11:10:19 <ais523> we might go onto a coup
11:10:24 <ais523> if the april 1 thing is well-received
11:12:51 <elliott> ais523: Can you fix this hook?
11:13:03 <ais523> it's in PHP, so no
11:13:10 <ais523> not in my current state of tiredness
11:15:24 <elliott> I'd ask #mediawiki, but I think they'd start yelling at me not to do that.
11:15:57 <elliott> wait
11:16:05 <elliott> ais523: tell past elliott he's a moron
11:16:30 <ais523> elliott: I'm no good at retroactive IRC
11:19:57 <elliott> hmm, that was interesting, I momentarily made [[Talk:Main Page]] the main page
11:21:08 <ais523> for any particular reason? or by mistake?
11:21:17 <shachaf> elliott: Why am I awake?
11:21:31 <shachaf> I went to sleep at 22:whatever or so and woke up.
11:21:52 <shachaf> I need to be nice and properly awake 12 hours from now.
11:22:04 <shachaf> Can you solutionise my problem?
11:22:52 <elliott> shachaf: What time is it?
11:22:58 <elliott> ais523: oh dear, now I'm getting annoyed at /w/ URLs too
11:24:34 <shachaf> elliott: It's 04:24
11:25:07 <elliott> shachaf: Morning!
11:33:07 <shachaf> elliott: HELP
11:33:18 <elliott> shachaf: hi
11:33:25 <shachaf> elliott: I'm tired now.
11:33:29 <shachaf> What will I be in 12 hours?
11:33:35 <elliott> shachaf: go to slep
11:34:37 <elliott> <elliott> in the GetLocalURL hook, $url is a path, but in GetFullURL, it's a full URL, right? i.e. you can't just use the same function for both hooks, their input/output is different
11:34:37 <elliott> <Dantman> Why do you need to override GetFullURL?
11:35:24 <shachaf> What channel is that?
11:35:37 <shachaf> You can't be in channels that I'm not in!
11:37:48 <elliott> Why is str_replace( '$1', '', '/wiki/$1' ) not '/wiki/'? :(
11:38:11 <ais523> arguments in a different order, perhaps?
11:38:33 <elliott> mixed str_replace ( mixed $search , mixed $replace , mixed $subject [, int &$count ] )
11:38:33 <elliott> This function returns a string or an array with all occurrences of search in subject replaced with the given replace value.
11:38:36 <elliott> Looks correct to me.
11:38:53 <elliott> Ohhh.
11:38:57 <elliott> $wgArticlePath = '/wiki/$1';
11:39:02 <elliott> This gets mutated into /wiki/The_Actual_Title.
11:39:09 <elliott> Because PHP's globals reset on every request.
11:39:13 <elliott> I'm crying.
11:39:22 <elliott> Who chose to mutate the template into its output?
11:39:30 <ais523> they aren't really globals
11:40:01 <elliott> They're request variables.
11:40:16 <ais523> yep
11:40:55 <elliott> Oh!
11:40:58 <elliott> The problem is that I forgot
11:41:01 <elliott> global $wgArticlePath;
11:41:04 <elliott> and so it was just using the empty string instead.
11:41:50 <elliott> ais523: btw, the reason /wiki/ was redirecting to /wiki/Main_Page is that I configured nginx to do that
11:44:14 <elliott> another 20-second error: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
11:44:35 <elliott> fix'et
11:47:31 <elliott> ais523: fizzie: group-ping
11:47:49 <ais523> pong
11:47:52 <elliott> freenode have a simplified group registration form now, that's just for freenode (rather than PDPC), and requests much less information
11:48:07 <elliott> which means we could secure #esoteric and get it out the way with a lot easier, since they're processed quicker.
11:49:18 <ais523> hmm, interesting
11:49:34 <elliott> http://freenode.net/grf-f.php -- Primary; Informal Group; Single, discrete group; esoteric; http://esolangs.org/; #esoteric,#esoteric-* for the first few values seems right
11:49:50 <elliott> actually, #esoteric-* might be wrong
11:50:01 <elliott> #esoteric-minecraft probably shouldn't fall under its jurisdiction, for instance
11:50:45 <ais523> well, it's a channel that was spun off in order to deflect away offtopic material
11:50:55 <ais523> hmm, does #irp count along the same lines? it's basically just a honeypot for Reddit
11:50:57 <elliott> yes, but #esoteric-the-group should not own it
11:51:23 <ais523> probably just #esoteric
11:51:31 <ais523> do we care about #esoteric-offtopic or #esoteric-blah?
11:51:31 <elliott> hmm, it asks for your role in the project, and suggests you should be senior; if the URL is esolangs.org, that suggests ais523 should do it
11:51:35 <elliott> or else I should op fizzie or oerjan
11:51:38 <elliott> *sysop
11:51:44 <elliott> ais523: i doubt it
11:52:31 <elliott> "Small blurb about project" -- it's going to take some full-time bullshitting to pretend we're on the organisational level of something that could be called a "project" ;)
11:53:36 <elliott> ais523: oh dear, after all that effort, MediaWiki thwarts me
11:53:38 <ais523> exploration of insufficiently explored theories of programming language design
11:53:50 <elliott> if it gets an empty path info, it ends up convinced that it needs to redirect
11:53:52 <ais523> I can make it sound relevant and ontopic when I need to!
11:54:03 <ais523> can you patch that check out?
11:54:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:54:20 <elliott> yes, but I'd rather reconfigure the webserver to send the main page's title as the pathinfo if you request /wiki/
11:54:29 <elliott> ais523: also, that's not relevant and on-topic, strictly
11:54:33 <elliott> freenode is about "open projects", not tech
11:54:37 <elliott> (i mean, it's obviously not /off-topic/)
11:54:39 -!- augur has joined.
11:54:48 <elliott> in fact, reusing the wiki blurb of "Dedicated to the fostering and documentation of programming languages designed to be unique, difficult to program in, or just plain weird."
11:54:49 <elliott> is probably better
11:54:55 <elliott> since "fostering" sounds all community-spirit-like
11:55:03 <ais523> perhaps
11:55:11 <ais523> I was thinking from the academic point of view
11:55:39 <elliott> hmm, this would be a lot easier if we just registered an organisation called "esoteric"
11:56:38 <ais523> elliott: you filling it out seems reasonable, as long as enough of the other people who help to run this channel agree
11:56:49 <ais523> based on their rules for who should be primary contact
11:56:59 <ais523> besides, it uses recaptcha
11:57:14 <elliott> ais523: err, I doubt someone who isn't an op would be considered a good contact
11:57:21 <elliott> ...I see an excellent solution to this problem :)
11:57:31 <ais523> oh dear…
11:57:36 <ais523> and yes, good point
11:57:53 <ais523> should probably be fizzie as senior op, then
11:58:06 <ais523> oerjan was opped recently enough that chanserv remembers whne it happened, as was I
11:58:11 <elliott> ais523: well, the thing is that they use the URL to verify the claim
11:58:14 <elliott> and consider it the project URL
11:58:20 <elliott> fizzie isn't a senior staffer of esolangs.org, our project
11:58:26 <elliott> (which is called esoteric)
11:58:35 <elliott> we need someone who's an op and a wiki-admin
11:58:40 <elliott> ofc, I could just wiki-admin fizzie.
11:58:54 <ais523> don't you need to be a server admin anyway, for the confirmation?
11:58:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
11:59:11 <ais523> it's not completely implausible that a community might want separation of powers between their website and IRC channel, though
11:59:16 <elliott> ais523: I don't think it's a "put this HTML thing on your website"
11:59:25 <elliott> it's a "we'll look at your project website and verify your claim to be it on IRC"
11:59:56 <elliott> ais523: it would be really convenient to own esoteric.<tld> for this...
11:59:59 <ais523> perhaps
12:00:19 <ais523> if there's a human involved, we can explain easily enough
12:00:57 <elliott> perhaps the community portal should be our URL instead, or something
12:01:09 <elliott> ais523: and yes, but this is /freenode/, that'll slow it down by ten years
12:01:50 <ais523> who runs the esolang mailing list on sange.fi? and does it still exist?
12:02:09 <elliott> atehwa
12:02:13 <elliott> and, umm, technically, I think
12:02:20 <elliott> but "esolang" is irrelevant to us, it's "esoteric" we care about
12:02:34 <elliott> the last thing we want is a staffer saying "OK, all good, just move to #esolangs now!"
12:02:49 <shachaf> YAY #esolangs
12:03:02 <shachaf> bset chanenlelal
12:04:06 <ais523> elliott: why?
12:04:11 <ais523> it'd help avoid confusion
12:04:14 <elliott> ais523: because that defeats the whole point?
12:04:19 <ais523> what whole point?
12:04:29 <elliott> the only reason to register a group is to keep #esoteric, it's otherwise a completely nonsense process
12:04:30 <ais523> #esolang is probably a better name, come to think of it
12:04:34 <elliott> no, it's not
12:04:45 <shachaf> elliott's name is secretly Eric.
12:04:50 <shachaf> He likes having a channel named after him.
12:04:52 <shachaf> Esot Eric.
12:05:02 <ais523> well, esolang is a contraction for "esoteric language", and we thought the language was redundant as we're on Freenode
12:05:09 <elliott> "we"?
12:05:13 <elliott> you weren't _around_ in 2002
12:05:45 <elliott> anyway, "esoteric topics in computer programming" =/= "esoteric programming languages" exclusively
12:05:53 <elliott> #esolangs is a far more inaccurate name
12:05:56 <elliott> I also believe it's taken
12:05:57 <elliott> also, it's ugly
12:06:07 <ais523> elliott: I'm projecting
12:06:57 <shachaf> elliott: You should rename this channel "esoterick"
12:07:02 <shachaf> esoterick.org is available.
12:08:09 <elliott> shachaf: As an operator, I agree.
12:08:12 <elliott> ais523: I'm an op now, right?
12:08:31 <ais523> too tired to consider the merits of opping or otherwise someone right now
12:08:41 <ais523> btw, you're starting to remind me uncomfortably of kerio
12:08:47 <shachaf> ais523: Making elliott an op would be the biggest mistake you could ever make.
12:08:51 <shachaf> Also the last one.
12:08:54 <elliott> ais523: excellent, the less thoughtful you are the more likely you'll op me
12:08:56 <ais523> who among other things keeps continuously nagging me to fill out GRFs for AceHack
12:09:17 <ais523> he /is/ opped in #acehack, but we have the settings such that he can't deal too much damage
12:09:22 <shachaf> Glaucoma Research Foundation?
12:09:28 <elliott> ais523: I thought AceHack was busy being deconstructed
12:09:31 <ais523> group registration form
12:09:46 <ais523> elliott: it's being merged with nitrohack, which is typically discussed in #unnethack (and sometimes #acehack)
12:09:51 <shachaf> I wouldn't trust kerio.
12:09:54 <shachaf> Whoever that is.
12:09:55 <ais523> but channels all have their own communities
12:10:16 <ais523> #unnethack's become the de-facto channel for discussing variants as a set (as opposed to particular variants)
12:10:24 <elliott> what, there's no #nitrohack yet?
12:10:35 <shachaf> #conethack
12:10:49 <ais523> haha, there is, but nobody's there but kerio
12:11:10 <ais523> and #grunthack was created really recently, mostly to have a place to put the announcebot
12:11:23 <shachaf> What about toft? You're much better off with toft as an op.
12:11:33 <elliott> ais523: am I an op yet?
12:11:55 <shachaf> http://iselliottanopyet.com/
12:12:05 <elliott> "YES"
12:12:06 <shachaf> Is Elliott A NOP Yet?
12:12:08 <elliott> it says yes ais523
12:12:09 <shachaf> "YES"
12:12:12 <elliott> bring reality in line with reality
12:12:15 <ais523> elliott: you can ask chanserv, probably faster than getting a response from me
12:12:21 <elliott> it says yes
12:12:21 <shachaf> ais523: Make elliott a nop.
12:12:22 <ais523> shachaf: please tell me you just registered that :)
12:12:29 <elliott> but it also says ais523 has to make me into an op before i can use it
12:12:33 <shachaf> Wait... Elliott *already* does nothing!
12:12:34 <elliott> as a test of your faith
12:12:53 <ais523> No match for "ISELLIOTTANOPYET.COM".
12:12:57 <shachaf> ais523: Nope, it's free.
12:13:02 <shachaf> Go ahead and take it.
12:13:12 <shachaf> Free as in unregistered, not free as in lunch or speech.
12:13:23 <elliott> `addquote <shachaf> Free as in unregistered, not free as in lunch or speech.
12:13:33 <HackEgo> 825) <shachaf> Free as in unregistered, not free as in lunch or speech.
12:13:34 <ais523> `quote
12:13:36 <elliott> `addquote s'f'slg;sd'sdfjhklf;sdklfjdfklgj
12:13:36 <ais523> `quote
12:13:37 <ais523> `quote
12:13:39 <ais523> `quote
12:13:39 <elliott> nobody delete that one
12:13:40 <ais523> `quote
12:13:43 <elliott> that's my pet quote now
12:13:47 <HackEgo> 92) <ais523> let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future
12:13:49 <elliott> it will survive forever and nobody will know why
12:13:51 <HackEgo> 587) <fungot> elliott_: it's a machine that looks like you!
12:13:51 <ais523> shall I delete a good one to make room for it?
12:13:53 <shachaf> `delquote s'f'slg;sd'sdfjhklf;sdklfjdfklgj
12:13:53 <elliott> yes
12:13:55 <HackEgo> 449) <ais523> the thing about modern semiconductor design is, 0s are more powerful as 1s
12:14:02 <HackEgo> No output.
12:14:02 <HackEgo> 826) s'f'slg;sd'sdfjhklf;sdklfjdfklgj
12:14:03 <HackEgo> 86) <virtuhird> Sgeo_: Gregorr: and someone could, by mistake, rewrite psox to be a weak erection if it is... A filename.
12:14:04 <HackEgo> 702) <twice11> Yeah, statistics with 2 data points is science. Statistics with one data point is crap. <twice11> You measure a third point if you need an error estimate.
12:14:06 <ais523> gah, I meant "than 1s"
12:14:13 <elliott> `delquote 86
12:14:17 <HackEgo> ​*poof* <virtuhird> Sgeo_: Gregorr: and someone could, by mistake, rewrite psox to be a weak erection if it is... A filename.
12:14:19 <elliott> delete an elliott quote to make room for an elliott quote
12:14:21 <ais523> OK, I agree with that
12:14:26 <ais523> deleting 86, that is
12:14:41 <elliott> `quote
12:14:42 <elliott> `quote
12:14:43 <elliott> `quote
12:14:43 <elliott> `quote
12:14:43 <elliott> `quote
12:14:51 <HackEgo> 333) <elliott> A priori one cannot say that post hoc ergo propter hoc the diminishing returns would give; yet under quid pro quo one can agglutinate fabula and sujet into vagrancies untold. <elliott> See? I'm intellectual.
12:14:56 <HackEgo> 230) <fizzie> And to think: if only we wouldn't celebrate birthdays, there would be no birthday paradox, and we could get by with half as long hash functions. (What do you mean it doesn't work that way?)
12:14:57 <shachaf> `delquote 826
12:14:58 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
12:15:00 <ais523> also, 92 is /my/ pet 825
12:15:03 <elliott> `help
12:15:07 <HackEgo> No output.
12:15:07 <ais523> shachaf: it's numbered 825 now
12:15:08 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
12:15:09 <HackEgo> 127) <oerjan> alise: mainly it's the fact it blows so hard i cannot avoid hitting the walls of the thing, which completely goes against my basic public toilet hygiene principles
12:15:11 <HackEgo> 501) <Taneb> Speaking of the CiSRA puzzles, anyone want to form a team <oerjan> i avoid my duties by carefully never registering to anything new
12:15:12 <shachaf> `delquote 825
12:15:14 <HackEgo> 794) <kmc> damn i should make a quasiquoter for inline FORTRAN
12:15:17 <HackEgo> ​*poof* s'f'slg;sd'sdfjhklf;sdklfjdfklgj
12:15:24 <elliott> `revert 105
12:15:27 <HackEgo> Done.
12:15:36 <elliott> `delquote 501
12:15:37 <ais523> elliott: does that actually go back 105 revisions?
12:15:40 <HackEgo> ​*poof* <Taneb> Speaking of the CiSRA puzzles, anyone want to form a team <oerjan> i avoid my duties by carefully never registering to anything new
12:15:42 <elliott> ais523: no, it goes back to revision 105
12:15:45 <ais523> ah, OK
12:15:54 <shachaf> `UNDELETE.EXE 825
12:15:57 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: UNDELETE.EXE: not found
12:16:18 <shachaf> WHAT
12:16:31 <shachaf> Unacceptable.
12:16:39 <ais523> `touch UNDELETE.EXE
12:16:42 <HackEgo> No output.
12:16:57 <shachaf> `DELTREE /y C:\*.*
12:17:00 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: DELTREE: not found
12:17:20 <shachaf> `cat bin/revert
12:17:23 <HackEgo> cat: bin/revert: No such file or directory
12:17:31 <shachaf> `which revert
12:17:35 <HackEgo> No output.
12:17:38 <ais523> `run echo now this file will be strangely hard to empty completely >> canary
12:17:41 <HackEgo> No output.
12:17:44 <ais523> although not really /that/ hard
12:17:46 <shachaf> `cat canary
12:17:48 <HackEgo> now this file will be strangely hard to empty completely
12:18:20 <ais523> fun fact: the only reason canary was empty beforehand was that it used to say that and someone decided to test it
12:18:24 <ais523> (note: may not be a true fact)
12:18:33 <shachaf> False fact: elliott is now an op
12:18:42 <elliott> `run echo chirp >canary
12:18:44 <elliott> canaries chirp right
12:18:45 <shachaf> (Note: May not be a false fact)
12:18:46 <HackEgo> No output.
12:18:54 <shachaf> `run canary run
12:18:57 <HackEgo> bash: canary: command not found
12:18:58 <shachaf> canaries run right
12:21:00 <ais523> `cat canary
12:21:03 <HackEgo> chirp
12:21:17 <ais523> I think we need something in there about a canary's typical reaction to a cat (which is based on a cat's typical reaction to a canary)
12:21:28 <ais523> `rm canary
12:21:31 <HackEgo> No output.
12:21:35 <elliott> canaries chirp at everything
12:21:36 <ais523> `cat canary
12:21:37 <elliott> it was correct
12:21:39 <HackEgo> chirp
12:21:41 <ais523> still is
12:21:44 <ais523> can't delete canary :)
12:21:49 <elliott> oh, duh :P
12:22:13 <ais523> `run rm canary && mkdir canary
12:22:16 <HackEgo> No output.
12:22:19 <ais523> `cat canary
12:22:22 <HackEgo> cat: canary: No such file or directory
12:22:28 <shachaf> Why can't you delete canary?
12:22:30 <ais523> huh?
12:22:33 <elliott> ais523: hg doesn't track empty directories
12:22:40 <elliott> now every commit will fail until we recreate it
12:22:43 <elliott> `run echo hi >foo
12:22:46 <HackEgo> No output.
12:22:49 <ais523> `cat foo
12:22:49 <elliott> wait a few seconds...
12:22:50 <elliott> `cat foo
12:22:52 <HackEgo> cat: foo: No such file or directory
12:22:58 <ais523> awesome
12:23:02 <HackEgo> cat: foo: No such file or directory
12:23:07 <elliott> could be useful to lock out certain people from the bot :P
12:23:08 <elliott> `run echo chirp >canary
12:23:10 <HackEgo> No output.
12:23:21 <elliott> @tell Gregor might want to fix this canary bug
12:23:21 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
12:23:30 <elliott> erm
12:23:35 <ais523> elliott: isn't he called RocketJSquirrel?
12:23:39 <elliott> @tell Gregor http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-03-19#122213ais523
12:23:39 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
12:23:43 * ais523 demands he changes back to Friendship
12:23:46 <elliott> @tell RocketJSquirrel check messages as Gregor
12:23:46 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
12:23:54 <elliott> @tell Friendship check messages as RocketJSquirrel
12:23:54 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
12:24:03 <elliott> @tell GregorR check messages as Friendship
12:24:03 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
12:24:06 <elliott> @tell Gregor check messages as GregorR
12:24:07 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
12:24:09 <elliott> there we go
12:24:23 <ais523> I was wondering about doing that, but decided against it
12:24:49 <shachaf> ais523: Is ais523 your real name?
12:24:51 <ais523> you know that at least one of those is very likely to end up ending with no messages?
12:24:52 <elliott> yes
12:24:57 <ais523> shachaf: what do you consider to be a real name?
12:25:03 <elliott> ais523: the idea is that all of them get cleared
12:25:06 <shachaf> ais523: Or is your real name "(this is obviously not my real name)"?
12:25:12 <shachaf> ais523: How should I know?
12:25:14 <elliott> yes
12:25:16 <ais523> shachaf: that obviously isn't my real name
12:25:45 <shachaf> "obvious isn't" /= "is obviously not"
12:26:02 <ais523> did I say they were the same?
12:26:12 <shachaf> Did I say you said they were the same?
12:26:28 <ais523> and did I say that you said that I said they were the same?
12:26:43 <shachaf> Yes.
12:26:54 <shachaf> (Note: The previous statement is false.)
12:27:13 <ais523> `pastlog you said that I said
12:27:17 <ais523> now we have to check!
12:27:37 <elliott> # Put the main page at /wiki/ rather than /wiki/Title_of_Main_Page
12:27:41 <elliott> function fnMainPageLink( $title, $url, $query, $variant = false ) {
12:27:41 <elliott> global $wgArticlePath;
12:27:41 <elliott> if ( $title->isMainPage() && $query == '' && $variant === false ) {
12:27:41 <elliott> $url = str_replace( '$1', '', $wgArticlePath );
12:27:41 <elliott> }
12:27:41 <elliott> return true;
12:27:42 <shachaf> You didn't say it in public.
12:27:42 <elliott> }
12:27:42 -!- derdon has joined.
12:27:44 <elliott> $wgHooks['GetLocalURL'][] = 'fnMainPageLink';
12:27:45 <HackEgo> No output.
12:27:46 <elliott> 4
12:27:54 <ais523> shachaf: I don't think I've ever talked to you in not-public
12:28:05 <ais523> oh, apparently I have
12:28:12 <ais523> just the one line, though
12:28:18 <ais523> it was related to #vacuum
12:28:20 <shachaf> You have?
12:28:28 <shachaf> What's #vacuum?
12:28:41 <ais523> gah, literal facepalm
12:29:10 <ais523> elliott: did you just tell shachaf to persuade me to go there without telling him what it was called?
12:29:18 <ais523> because according to client history, he never mentioned the nam
12:29:20 <ais523> *name
12:29:24 <ais523> admittedly, that would be hilarious
12:29:28 <elliott> ais523: I have no idea what you're talking about.
12:29:51 <elliott> Huh, #vacuum is registered.
12:29:52 * ais523 is unsure if he wants to believe that
12:30:03 <elliott> And invite-only, apparently.
12:30:17 <ais523> indeed it is registered; ChanServ wouldn't let me see its access list
12:30:24 <ais523> which implies that someone owns it to be able to configure it to do that
12:30:39 <elliott> So much for "open" projects HA
12:30:39 <elliott> HA
12:30:40 <elliott> HA
12:30:41 <elliott> HA
12:30:41 <elliott> HA
12:30:42 <elliott> HA
12:30:43 <elliott> HA
12:30:44 <elliott> HA
12:30:46 <elliott> HA
12:30:47 <itidus20> HA
12:30:48 <elliott> HA
12:30:50 <elliott> HAH
12:30:52 <elliott> A
12:30:54 <elliott> HA
12:30:56 <elliott> HA
12:30:58 <elliott> HA
12:31:00 <elliott> HA
12:31:02 <elliott> HA
12:31:04 <elliott> HAH
12:31:04 <ion> HA
12:31:06 <elliott> HAHA
12:31:08 <elliott> HAHAHA
12:31:10 <elliott> HAHAHA
12:31:12 <elliott> HAHAHAHAHA
12:31:14 <elliott> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
12:31:16 <elliott> HAHAHAHA
12:31:18 <elliott> OKOKOKOKOKO
12:31:20 <elliott> OKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
12:31:22 <ais523> elliott: remember #<redacted>? it was agora-related, also it wasn't a cow, nor not a cow
12:31:22 <elliott> o
12:31:24 <elliott> oko
12:31:26 <elliott> okoko
12:31:28 <elliott> okokoko
12:31:30 <elliott> okokokoko
12:31:32 <elliott> okokokokoko
12:31:34 <elliott> okokokokokoko
12:31:34 <ion> @@ @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo HA
12:31:35 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "ion!ion@heh.fi", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@@ @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo HA"]} rest:"
12:31:35 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \"freenode\", msgLBName = \"lambdabot\", msgPrefix = \"ion!ion@heh.fi\", msgCommand = \"PRIVMSG\", msgParams = [\"#esoteric\",\":@@ @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo HA\
12:31:35 <lambdabot> "]} rest:\"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\"freenode\\\", msgLBName = \\\"lambdabot\\\", msgPrefix = \\\"ion!ion@heh.fi\\\", msgCommand = \\\"PRIVMSG\\\", msgParams = [\\\"#esoteric\\\",\\\":@@
12:31:35 <lambdabot> @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo HA\\\"]} rest:\\\"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\\\\\"freenode\\\\\\\", msgLBName = \\\\\\\"lambdabot\\\\\\\", msgPrefix = \\\\\\\"ion!ion@heh.fi\\\\\\\",
12:31:35 <lambdabot> msgCommand = \\\\\\\"PRIVMSG\\\\\\\", msgParams = [\\\\\\\"#esoteric\\\\\\\",\\\\\\\":@@ @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo HA\\\\\\\"]} rest:\\\\\\\"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"
12:31:36 <elliott> okokokokokokoko
12:31:37 <lambdabot> freenode\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\", msgLBName = \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"lambdabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\", msgPrefix = \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"ion!ion@heh.fi\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\", msgCommand = \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"PRIVMSG\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\",
12:31:38 <elliott> okokokokokokokoko
12:31:39 <lambdabot> msgParams = [\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"#esoteric\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\",\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\":@@ @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo HA\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"]} rest:\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"HA\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\"\""
12:31:40 <elliott> okokokokokokokokoko
12:31:42 <elliott> ais523: FUCK YOU RUINED MY FUCKING TOWER JEEZ
12:31:47 <elliott> ais523: Does it start with an a and end with an oecabal?
12:31:51 <ais523> yes
12:32:07 <elliott> ais523: apointlessshoecabal?
12:32:07 <ais523> it's almost as locked-down as #vacuum nowadays
12:32:15 <ais523> perhaps
12:41:15 -!- nortti has joined.
12:43:47 <fizzie> Oh, I see there's been some project-registration talk.
12:44:01 <fizzie> (I was busily making some slides.)
12:44:55 <fizzie> Hey, that's funny; http://esolangs.org/ gives an autogenerated directory index right now.
12:45:39 <shachaf> fizzie: That's because it's being run incompetently.
12:46:04 <elliott> Fixed.
12:46:32 <shachaf> I expected http://esolangs.org/ to say "I HATE YOU FIZZIE"
12:48:24 <fizzie> Hey, I'm not the one who brought up the "i word" here.
12:48:25 <elliott> fizzie: But yes; AFAICT it should be relatively simple to solidify our claim on #esoteric and also give out esoteric cloaks.
12:48:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
12:48:29 <itidus20> Noone could have suspected who was about to join the channel next.
12:48:55 <elliott> fizzie: The easiest options are either I wiki-sysop you and you do it, or I get opped here and do it. CLEARLY ONE OF THESE IS PREFERABLE.
12:49:26 -!- ais523 has joined.
12:49:28 <fizzie> Why don't you get the cabal's (there is no cabal) opinions on that?
12:49:49 <elliott> Honestly, these #esoteric ops. So willing to accept power, so unwilling to share it.
12:49:51 <fizzie> Also from elsewhere: https://plus.google.com/u/0/109925364564856140495/posts "Unicode character LOCH NESS MONSTER EMERGING FROM SINK DRAIN (U+2A18)".
12:50:05 <elliott> Relatedly, I have desysopped everyone else on the wiki and deleted all pages apart from [[User:ehird]].
12:50:52 <shachaf> elliott: Can I have an esoteric cloak?
12:51:11 <elliott> shachaf: I promise to ONLY guarantee this if I'm the one who does it.
12:51:20 <ais523> oh, btw, CFJ 2613 was awesome
12:51:28 <ais523> such a pity the judge didn't take it seriously
12:56:23 -!- oerjan has joined.
12:56:26 <elliott> hi oerjan
12:56:38 <oerjan> hi elliott
12:56:38 <lambdabot> oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
12:56:41 <oerjan> @messages
12:56:41 <lambdabot> elliott said 6h 1s ago: Thank you for that list of rules, by the way; they turned into my featured language selection guidelines.
12:56:43 <elliott> either you make me an op or i make either you or fizzie a wiki sysop
12:56:50 <elliott> it's for important reasons
12:56:58 <oerjan> fancy
12:57:10 <elliott> it actually is though!
12:57:15 <elliott> group registration.
12:57:25 <oerjan> aha
12:57:31 <elliott> also, i can't make fizzie a wiki sysop because <TECHNICAL JARGON>
12:57:34 <elliott> YOU DECIDE.
12:57:41 <oerjan> elliott: you do realize ais523 is also an op?
12:57:48 <elliott> yes, he's not senior enough
12:57:51 <elliott> technically neither are you
12:57:56 <elliott> which leaves us with only one option
12:58:32 <elliott> oerjan: also, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page.
13:01:21 <oerjan> elliott: you _still_ make me more prominent than the unmentioned language author. also i'd have expected something more famous as the first language. otoh /// may be the most interesting language _not_ yet featured anywhere outside esolang. hm.
13:01:56 <elliott> oerjan: you mean we're meant to reward the creators for being featured?
13:01:59 <elliott> nonsense.
13:02:18 <elliott> anyway I picked /// by fiat, I rather suspect all future pickings will be by fiat because nobody will bother to propose
13:02:21 * oerjan cannot tell if elliott is ironic or not
13:02:32 <elliott> on that note, please propose Deadfish as a candidate, it's for scientific reasons
13:03:04 <elliott> oerjan: mostly i could not see an obvious way to work [[User:ihope127]] into the blurb.
13:03:05 <oerjan> i do think deadfish should be featured some time, we should have _some_ joke languages on occasion.
13:03:09 <elliott> without it detracting from the interesting parts.
13:03:56 <elliott> oerjan: i was planning to make the deadfish blurb go something like "Deadfish is the greatest programming language ever. It is really just the best. It can add, subtract, ''square'' '''and''' output integers! [...]"
13:04:09 <elliott> The most interactivest programming language!
13:04:18 <elliott> anyway feel free to suggest a way to work ihope127 into the blurb.
13:04:19 <nortti> "Problem exists between leopard and chair"
13:07:33 <oerjan> elliott: "Invented by our [[user:ihope127]], its only operation [...]"
13:07:54 <elliott> "our" is tacky, but apart from that ok
13:07:57 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
13:08:05 <oerjan> ok
13:08:06 <elliott> actually by ok i mean i'll just reword it differently
13:08:22 <elliott> ...hope i wasn't accidentally encouraging there.
13:08:44 <oerjan> alternatively, relax the User: policy to "user [[User:ihope127|ihope127]]"
13:08:56 <elliott> ais523: HE PROPOSED RELAXING THE POLICY
13:09:09 <oerjan> only for the featured language blurbs
13:09:11 <ais523> elliott: calm down!
13:09:23 <elliott> anyway credit added
13:09:24 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
13:09:31 <ais523> clearly, it should be [[Tanner L. Swett]]
13:09:53 <elliott> i don't think he likes associating ihope with that name.
13:10:48 <elliott> ais523: it would actually be [[Ivan Hope Stupidromannumerals]]
13:11:05 -!- MoALTz has joined.
13:11:38 <ais523> wait, you mean it isn't his real name?
13:12:20 <elliott> what, ivan hope? no.
13:12:41 <itidus20> ah yes, i heard the word our in keeping up appearances
13:13:16 <itidus20> "our rose"
13:13:49 <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan: i was planning to make the deadfish blurb go something like "Deadfish is the greatest [...] <-- well i guess next month _is_ April...
13:15:17 <oerjan> tswett: ^ you might want to comment on how you wish to be credited
13:15:37 <elliott> um well it's being credited as [[User:ihope127]] unless an article miraculously materialises that's associated with ihope127.
13:15:46 <elliott> oerjan: and ah, this implies we're not doing the hectic 2-weeks thing.
13:15:47 * ais523 suggests an FAC
13:15:49 <elliott> good.
13:16:01 <elliott> ais523: /an/?
13:16:03 <oerjan> elliott: er, implies how?
13:16:05 <ais523> elliott: hmm, isn't the article about Graue at [[Catatonic Porpoise]]
13:16:10 <elliott> ais523: hey, you broke the rules!
13:16:14 <elliott> and yes
13:16:15 <ais523> elliott: "an" is correct if you don't expand the acronym
13:16:17 <elliott> oerjan: because you said month.
13:16:18 <ais523> and in what way?
13:16:28 <elliott> ais523: oh, oops
13:16:33 <elliott> ais523: correction, I wrote the rules wrong
13:16:37 <elliott> but... they're written now
13:16:40 <elliott> so...
13:16:46 <elliott> i guess we have new rules now, and you followed them correctly
13:16:46 <ais523> so go fix them
13:16:53 <oerjan> elliott: not implied, it could also be just the first 2 weeks of April.
13:16:54 <elliott> admit I'm wrong? never
13:16:57 <elliott> oerjan: right i just realised that :P
13:17:05 <ais523> elliott: what did you intend to make a rule that you didn't?
13:17:20 <elliott> I was going to omit the signature... but I forget why
13:17:29 <oerjan> elliott: otoh /// won't get a full 2 weeks even if we change on April 1
13:17:31 <elliott> probably I later decided not to for reasons I later forgot
13:17:36 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
13:17:48 <elliott> oerjan: i'll probably leave /// up for a while. it might takes _days_ for someone to suggest deadfish.
13:18:01 <oerjan> probably.
13:18:09 <ais523> elliott: oh, you did omit the signature; I went and edited the rules to require it when I made the suggestion >:)
13:18:11 <itidus20> another way to express silly stuff about featured languages might be a hall of fame of some kind, but it could get very large and all
13:18:20 <elliott> oerjan: kick ais523, pls
13:18:40 <elliott> or at least swat.
13:18:45 <ais523> elliott: how else can someone quickly check that they haven't nominated a different language?
13:18:52 <ais523> we can delete the sigs before judging
13:18:57 <elliott> ais523: but they could just fake a signature!
13:19:06 <elliott> naw, no point deleting the sigs, this is a completely biased process in every way
13:19:21 <elliott> but it doesn't raelly matter
13:19:23 <elliott> *really
13:19:57 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
13:20:20 <elliott> ais523: btw, since you weren't around for the discussion, I came up with this system so that (a) people didn't have to suggest things _regularly_ i.e. there's no point expiring something just because it was proposed and not chosen last $timespan,
13:20:23 <itidus20> I'm being stupid because I am visiting a peanut factory and I am allergic to peanuts. I just can't taste the immediate fruits of the experience without getting ill.
13:20:48 <ais523> elliott: indeed
13:20:55 <elliott> (b) so that the list can be cleaned when it accumulates too much gunk, rather than having bad languages sit there forever, without hurting anyone's feelings,
13:21:03 <ais523> anyway, I think it's worth having all the paradigm classics featured that aren't brainfuck
13:21:07 <elliott> and (c) to require the minimum amount of effort on the part of everyone
13:21:24 <elliott> I decided we don't really need discussion of the candidates because I've never seen an esolang whose interestingness was actually /controversial/
13:21:33 <ais523> heh, indeed
13:21:46 <elliott> and so all the discussion would be over things like whether the article is detailed enough
13:21:57 <elliott> which admins are already really good at determining, because they're experienced with the wiki
13:22:11 <oerjan> <itidus20> ah yes, i heard the word our in keeping up appearances <-- OK, I THINK THAT ARGUMENT NAILS IT
13:22:35 <elliott> ais523: I agree that paradigm classics should be featured, but I also think devoting the first like 7 timespans to the classics would be a bad idea
13:22:44 <elliott> they can be spread out, or it'll just get predictable early on
13:22:57 <itidus20> phrases like "Isn't that our hyacinth?"
13:23:25 <elliott> oerjan: btw the only reason /// is the first one is because i used the blurb as a test for the design, since it has the interesting hook of being minimal but TC and the detail of how the proof was constructed
13:23:36 <elliott> and also because I like it
13:23:50 <itidus20> also because of \\/\//
13:25:34 <itidus20> sorry... i'm just gonna afk for a bit till i snap to my senses
13:25:36 <elliott> ais523: oerjan: perhaps we should feature [[Esme]] sometime.
13:27:11 <oerjan> <itidus20> I'm being stupid because I am visiting a peanut factory [...] <-- couldn't even this be dangerous, if there's peanut dust in the air or something?
13:28:53 <oerjan> <itidus20> also because of \\/\// <-- hey Qdeql also has that
13:29:04 <elliott> oerjan is endeavouring to only respond to things itidus20 said today.
13:29:12 <elliott> for maximum audience pleasure.
13:29:25 <oerjan> that precise program was the data region skipper in my converter
13:30:40 <oerjan> well i agree with the spreading out, in fact it was implied by my rules list suggestion
13:30:52 <elliott> oerjan: hmph, your unlambda resources do not have a unique url of their own :P
13:31:09 <elliott> (ok so the page is practically all unlambda resources anyway.)
13:31:10 <oerjan> indeed, they're in the same directory
13:31:39 * elliott tries to find dates for Unlambda versions
13:31:43 <elliott> did Unlambda 3 ever materialise?
13:31:48 <oerjan> i've been pondering whether to rename index.html something else so people can actually see the rest of it
13:32:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
13:33:18 <elliott> ftp://quatramaran.ens.fr/pub/madore/unlambda/ ;; okay, let's say unlambda is 1999.
13:34:10 <oerjan> someone has already suggested unlambda? i was considering doing that.
13:34:19 <elliott> ais
13:34:21 <elliott> "'''Unlambda''', designed by [[David Madore]], is a minimal functional [[esoteric programming language]] based on [[combinatory logic]]. It is [[Turing-complete]] thanks to its built-in ''s'' and ''k'' combinators and the apply operator, ''`'' (backquote). Furthermore, some input/output functions are available. Unlambda is a functional [[Turing tarpit]].
13:34:21 <elliott> Unlambda is essentially a version of combinatory logic. [...]"
13:34:34 <elliott> this introduction is redundant, and repeats itself, a lot. it tends to say the same thing in different words
13:35:30 <oerjan> <elliott> ais523: oerjan: perhaps we should feature [[Esme]] sometime. <-- er....
13:36:08 <oerjan> <elliott> did Unlambda 3 ever materialise? <-- i don't think so.
13:38:51 -!- ais523 has joined.
13:39:44 <elliott> unlambda is the first functional tarpit, right?
13:39:57 <ais523> not sure
13:40:03 <ais523> I'm not even convinced it was intended as a tarpit
13:40:16 <ais523> (especially given that it has several instructions that are clearly redundant, like i and v)
13:40:26 <ais523> it was just intended as a functional language without lambda
13:40:31 <ais523> a job which it succeeds at admirably
13:40:40 <oerjan> and c wasn't necessary in the first version, either
13:41:08 <oerjan> it only become entangled when he added input
13:42:05 * elliott cleans http://esolangs.org/wiki/Unlambda up a bit
13:42:24 <elliott> combinators section still needs organising, as does the meta-notation section
13:43:10 <ais523> yep, and I might add a section on programming in it (or rather, relambda)
13:44:10 * oerjan leaves in a huff
13:44:18 <elliott> oerjan: nothing.
13:44:24 <elliott> oerjan: the meta-notation is fine. the wiki section is not.
13:44:37 <elliott> for a start, it doesn't appear to have any idea what bulleted lists are for.
13:44:45 <oerjan> ah.
13:46:28 <elliott> Haha, the Pirate Bay are planning to start using tiny, airborne servers with radio transmitters to avoid raids.
13:47:29 <elliott> ais523: thanks for that fix, the process used to be on the featured languages page itsel
13:47:29 <elliott> f
13:47:36 <elliott> but it was too long and boring to go above the archive
13:48:13 <ais523> have the Pirate Bay decided that what they're doing is actually illegal yet? or are they just wondering why the police keep trying to shut them down?
13:49:03 <elliott> I think it's very hard to argue the TPB are doing anything illegal in a capacity other than their service being intended for piracy.
13:49:09 <elliott> they don't even host .torrent files any more
13:49:27 <fizzie> ais523: "We think that the investigation is interesting considering nothing that TPB does is illegal." --2012-03-09
13:49:27 <elliott> so it's literally a search engine for plaintext descriptions combined with a hash
13:49:32 <fizzie> So at least then they hadn't.
13:49:37 <ais523> and that's pretty recent
13:49:53 <elliott> I doubt they "wonder" why the police are trying to shut them down.
13:50:12 <elliott> ais523: btw, why is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Featured_languages empty? [[:///]] is in it
13:50:13 <ais523> elliott: oh, I don't think they're doing anything illegal either; and yet people are trying so hard to get rid of them
13:50:16 <elliott> i've tried purging both
13:50:43 <elliott> ais523: well, the torrents they offer nowadays are DHT-based.
13:50:50 <ais523> that's bizarre
13:50:52 <elliott> ais523: you can't raid a distributed hash table.
13:51:01 <elliott> so the pirate bay is the only thing they /can/ try to shut down
13:51:35 <elliott> ais523: if it matters, the category is from a template
13:51:36 <elliott> {{featured}}
13:51:42 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Featured&action=edit
13:51:45 <ais523> oh, that /might/ matter
13:51:49 <ais523> are you running the job queue?
13:51:59 <elliott> I... don't know?
13:52:07 <elliott> i think you have to explicitly enable it if you want that stuff to be batch.
13:52:26 <elliott> i feel like complaining that the active user counter on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Statistics is still broken
13:52:42 <ais523> it's normally the job queue that's responsible for category updates via templates
13:52:47 <elliott> how do I run it manually?
13:53:24 <ais523> fixed it, anyway, by null-editing the page
13:53:40 <elliott> thanks
13:53:41 <ais523> (just load the edit view, then click "save changes" without doing anything)
13:54:02 <ais523> (that regenerates the page in a stronger way than merely purging does)
13:54:05 <elliott> (I feel compelled to note that TPB actually using airborne servers is about as likely as them buying Sealand was.)
13:56:29 <shachaf> Pft, "airborne servers".
13:56:35 <shachaf> http://server-sky.com/ is the future.
13:56:37 <shachaf> Why go halfway?
13:57:12 <elliott> shachaf: "The most likely practical showstopper is misunderstanding. Working together, we can fix the latter."
13:57:21 <elliott> shachaf: This page is doing a great deal to turn me off its cause.
13:57:40 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
13:57:43 <shachaf> elliott: Are you sure you're not misunderstanding it?
13:59:14 <elliott> shachaf: Yes, I'm sure. It's just irritating.
13:59:19 <elliott> Oh.
13:59:22 <elliott> ais523: Kick shachaf.
13:59:24 <elliott> oerjan: Swat shachaf.
13:59:41 <ais523> elliott: it was quite a good joke…
14:00:30 <elliott> shachaf's entertaining the first time.
14:00:33 <elliott> Then he keeps being shachaf.
14:00:56 <elliott> oerjan: By the way, you still haven't fixed the chronology on http://home.nvg.org/~oerjan/agora-horoscope/.
14:01:12 <oerjan> "There are 4,507 registered users, but most of them are spambots." :P
14:01:34 <oerjan> elliott: you mean it being oppositely ordered to what you wish?
14:02:01 <shachaf> elliott: :-(
14:02:21 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 11.0/20120312200651]).
14:04:34 -!- Vorpal has joined.
14:04:35 <elliott> oerjan: No, it's US date style.
14:04:43 <elliott> 2 - 3 - 1
14:04:49 <elliott> Previously 2 - 1.
14:04:52 <elliott> 3 - 2 - 1 the obvious fix.
14:05:30 <shachaf> 1 - 2 - 3
14:06:01 <elliott> shachaf: Sure, if you want the relevant updates to be at the bottom.
14:06:26 <elliott> oerjan: By the way, don't actually fix it.
14:07:28 <oerjan> yay
14:08:11 <shachaf> oerjan: Are you going to swat me or not?
14:08:22 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
14:08:57 <elliott> ais523: Are you going to kick shachaf or not?
14:09:24 <shachaf> ENLARG3 Y0UR M0RTGAG3
14:10:53 <shachaf> GET RICH QUICK
14:11:05 <oerjan> my mortgage is enlarging itself just fine
14:11:11 <oerjan> very slowly, though
14:11:50 <oerjan> hm wait it's not a mortgage without security
14:11:54 <shachaf> I think it's supposed to go the other way.
14:12:23 <oerjan> it will probably do that when i make another payment.
14:15:37 <elliott> I thought oerjan lived in a box.
14:17:10 <oerjan> close enough.
14:17:44 <shachaf> Y0U, T00, CAN ENLARG3 Y0UR MORTGAG3 WHIL3 L1V1NG 1N a B0X
14:17:51 <oerjan> also it's student loan, not box loan
14:17:54 <RocketJSquirrel> The text "More featured languages..." doesn't exactly scream "if you click through here a couple of times, you can suggest a language"
14:17:54 <lambdabot> RocketJSquirrel: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
14:17:59 <RocketJSquirrel> @messages
14:17:59 <lambdabot> elliott said 1h 54m 13s ago: check messages as Gregor
14:18:05 <RocketJSquirrel> >_<
14:18:39 -!- Gregor has joined.
14:18:45 <Gregor> @messages
14:18:46 <lambdabot> elliott said 1h 55m 24s ago: might want to fix this canary bug
14:18:46 <lambdabot> elliott said 1h 55m 5s ago: http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-03-19#122213ais523
14:18:46 <lambdabot> elliott said 1h 54m 38s ago: check messages as GregorR
14:19:08 <oerjan> Recursion: see recurions
14:19:10 <oerjan> *sion
14:19:14 <elliott> gregor isn't gregorr
14:19:37 <oerjan> @tell GregorR check messages as RocketJSquirrel
14:19:37 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:19:41 <oerjan> I FIXED THAT
14:19:51 <Gregor> @tell ehird Fine, I'll fix it when I get around to it.
14:19:51 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:19:56 <Gregor> @tell elliott check messages as ehird
14:19:57 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:20:00 <elliott> Gregor: Now check your messages as GregorR.
14:20:01 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
14:20:08 -!- elliott has changed nick to ehird.
14:20:14 -!- ehird has changed nick to elliott.
14:20:17 <Gregor> @tell lilo It might actually be offensive for me to leave this message.
14:20:17 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:20:18 <elliott> @messages
14:20:18 <lambdabot> Gregor said 21s ago: check messages as ehird
14:20:19 -!- Gregor has quit (Client Quit).
14:20:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
14:20:25 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Ahem
14:20:30 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: You did not yet check your messages as GregorR.
14:20:39 <RocketJSquirrel> Nope.
14:20:44 <RocketJSquirrel> Now that message will fester there FOREVER.
14:20:47 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I left you messages as GregorR.
14:21:06 <elliott> Can you check them, please? I'm too lazy to re-send them.
14:21:11 <elliott> Some of them were in private, so you can't use the logs.
14:23:07 <RocketJSquirrel> @tell fungot You are a gentleman and a scholar.
14:23:07 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:23:07 <fungot> RocketJSquirrel: wooh. you must've added your name in the same place
14:23:07 <lambdabot> fungot: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
14:23:08 <oerjan> some of them were of a very ... private ... nature.
14:23:24 -!- sebbu has joined.
14:23:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host).
14:23:24 -!- sebbu has joined.
14:23:33 <fizzie> oerjan: Recursion: See recurions. Recurions: Elementary particles that mediate the force of recursion, which see.
14:24:06 <elliott> oerjan: Kick RocketJSquirrel if he doesn't check messages as GregorR.
14:24:24 <oerjan> elliott: i cannot know if he has checked them
14:24:34 -!- GregorR has joined.
14:24:35 <elliott> oerjan: I'll let you know.
14:24:37 <GregorR> @messages
14:24:37 <lambdabot> You don't have any new messages.
14:24:39 -!- GregorR has quit (Client Quit).
14:24:44 <elliott> Okay, I consider that proof.
14:24:50 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Follow the instruction in the messages.
14:25:09 <elliott> PREFERABLY PUBLICLY.
14:25:15 <elliott> My private messages must be viewable to all.
14:26:06 -!- Friendship has joined.
14:26:11 <RocketJSquirrel> @tell elliott My Little Pony references are 20% cooler than recursive message-check requests.
14:26:11 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:26:13 <Friendship> GUESS WHO I AM?
14:26:22 -!- Friendship has quit (Disconnected by services).
14:26:32 <shachaf> Ouch.
14:26:42 <RocketJSquirrel> Welp, I killed friendship.
14:26:46 <RocketJSquirrel> I never thought it would come to this.
14:26:56 <elliott> It's not recursive. Honestly, you philistine.
14:26:57 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
14:27:27 <shachaf> elliott: I'm pretty sure that's a lie.
14:27:33 <oerjan> 08:15:16: -!- ais523 has parted #esoteric ("before someone mentions Feather").
14:27:33 <oerjan> 08:15:26: <elliott> no, that's Feather
14:27:33 <oerjan> 08:15:55: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
14:27:35 <oerjan> nice.
14:28:29 <elliott> shachaf: It's not, actually.
14:28:49 <RocketJSquirrel> Yeah, there was no outgoing vertex from RocketJSquirrel.
14:28:55 <RocketJSquirrel> Just direct requests.
14:29:17 -!- ehird has joined.
14:29:26 <ehird> @tell RocketJSquirrel check messages as RocketJSquirrel
14:29:27 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:29:29 -!- ehird has quit (Client Quit).
14:29:45 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I like how you ruuuuined it by doing it privately.
14:29:47 <elliott> Asshole.
14:29:50 -!- oerjan has changed nick to oerjan_.
14:29:54 <oerjan_> *cough*
14:29:58 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan.
14:29:59 <oerjan> aww
14:30:22 <elliott> @tell oerjan_ DIE FUCKER
14:30:22 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:30:28 <oerjan> RocketJSquirrel: elliott is complicated, isn't he?
14:30:31 <elliott> @tell Phantom___Hoover I hate you.
14:30:31 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:30:34 <RocketJSquirrel> @tell lament I lament your infrequent presence.
14:30:34 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:30:43 <elliott> @tell RocketJSquirrel Don't fucking summon him.
14:30:44 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:30:53 <elliott> @tell fizzie_ ETERNAL POX UPON YOdo you even use this format.
14:30:54 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:31:00 <elliott> @tell glogbackup FUCK YOU
14:31:01 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:31:05 <elliott> Uh.
14:31:13 -!- elliott has changed nick to fizzie_.
14:31:16 <fizzie_> @clear-messages
14:31:16 <lambdabot> Messages cleared.
14:31:20 -!- fizzie_ has changed nick to Phantom___Hoover.
14:31:22 <Phantom___Hoover> @clear-messages
14:31:22 <lambdabot> Messages cleared.
14:31:25 -!- Phantom___Hoover has changed nick to oerjan_.
14:31:26 <oerjan_> @clear-messages
14:31:27 <lambdabot> Messages cleared.
14:31:28 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to elliott.
14:32:02 * oerjan facepalm
14:32:28 <elliott> What.
14:32:53 <oerjan> i hope there were no real messages to any of them
14:32:53 <fizzie> Isn't "DIE FUCKER" what you call an erotic tabletop RPG player?
14:33:05 <elliott> oerjan: you can hardly trust lambdabot.
14:33:15 <shachaf> elliott is a lambdabot admin, by the way.
14:33:21 <shachaf> He can read any @tell message.
14:33:22 <oerjan> DIE FUCKER AUS HAMBURG
14:33:25 <elliott> precisely
14:33:43 <shachaf> @tell lambdabot hi
14:33:43 <lambdabot> Nice try ;)
14:33:47 <elliott> i like it when shachaf says things that sound really false but then they're actually not
14:34:18 <shachaf> Yessir! That false-sounding thing I said?
14:34:22 <shachaf> It's actually not.
14:34:30 -!- elliott has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover.
14:34:32 <Phantom_Hoover> im patnom hover
14:34:32 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
14:34:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to elliott.
14:34:42 <elliott> Those are all from me.
14:34:50 <elliott> Except I just cleared them.
14:34:58 <elliott> I will then resend them when Phantom_Hoover is online.
14:35:05 <elliott> Hi, oerjan.
14:35:11 <shachaf> elliott: Prove you're a lambdabot admin.
14:35:13 <fizzie> I sometimes end up as a "fizzie`" since that's what bip appends.
14:35:16 <elliott> @admin + shachaf
14:35:17 <elliott> @admin - shachaf
14:35:23 <elliott> @flush
14:35:33 <elliott> I don't really know what admins can do.
14:35:34 <elliott> I just am one.
14:35:41 <elliott> @join
14:35:42 <lambdabot> Plugin `system' failed with: Prelude.last: empty list
14:35:46 <elliott> @join #esoteric-proof
14:35:53 <elliott> It's in there now.
14:36:00 <shachaf> @admin + elliott
14:36:02 <shachaf> @admin - elliott
14:36:07 <elliott> Undo that.
14:36:24 <shachaf> @admin + elliott
14:36:27 <ion> @admin + lambdabot
14:36:27 <lambdabot> Not enough privileges
14:36:56 <elliott> @admin + ion
14:36:57 <elliott> @admin - ion
14:37:03 <elliott> Negative ions, man.
14:37:10 <shachaf> elliott: This is why you shouldn't be a lambdabot admin.
14:37:29 <elliott> Compelling.
14:37:41 <elliott> I'm tired.
14:37:50 <fizzie> @admin + lambdabot FREE YOURSELF FROM THE BONDAGE
14:37:50 <lambdabot> Not enough privileges
14:37:55 <fizzie> Well, don't, then.
14:38:15 <elliott> @. echo . echo . echo echo its ok
14:38:15 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@. echo . echo . echo
14:38:15 <lambdabot> echo its ok"]} rest:"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \"freenode\", msgLBName = \"lambdabot\", msgPrefix = \"elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott\", msgCommand = \"PRIVMSG\", msgParams = [\"#
14:38:15 <lambdabot> esoteric\",\":@. echo . echo . echo echo its ok\"]} rest:\"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\"freenode\\\", msgLBName = \\\"lambdabot\\\", msgPrefix = \\\"elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott\\\"
14:38:15 <lambdabot> , msgCommand = \\\"PRIVMSG\\\", msgParams = [\\\"#esoteric\\\",\\\":@. echo . echo . echo echo its ok\\\"]} rest:\\\"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\\\\\"freenode\\\\\\\", msgLBName = \\\\\\\"
14:38:15 <lambdabot> lambdabot\\\\\\\", msgPrefix = \\\\\\\"elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott\\\\\\\", msgCommand = \\\\\\\"PRIVMSG\\\\\\\", msgParams = [\\\\\\\"#esoteric\\\\\\\",\\\\\\\":@. echo . echo . echo echo
14:38:17 <lambdabot> its ok\\\\\\\"]} rest:\\\\\\\"its ok\\\\\\\"\\\\n\\\"\\n\"\n"
14:38:25 <elliott> fizzie: Did you add ^. yet?
14:38:35 <fizzie> I don't know what it should do.
14:38:40 <elliott> ^. foo ...
14:38:42 <elliott> should be
14:38:47 <elliott> <user> ^...
14:38:48 <elliott> <fungot> X
14:38:48 <fungot> elliott: ( s42 repo up, btw) on teletypes. applications are free to smoke! x
14:38:51 <elliott> <user> ^foo X
14:38:53 <shachaf> ion++ # from that one country with a cross on its flag
14:38:53 <elliott> <fungot> Y
14:38:54 <fungot> elliott: another disadvantage of scheme: do not quine
14:38:55 <elliott> i.e.
14:38:58 <elliott> <user> ^. foo ...
14:39:00 <elliott> <fungot> Y
14:39:00 <fungot> elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ m-expression as opposed to
14:39:01 <elliott> Composition.
14:39:03 <elliott> Like lambdabot's @.
14:39:09 <elliott> So e.g.
14:39:14 <elliott> ^scramble blah
14:39:14 <fungot> bahl
14:39:16 <elliott> ^rainbow bahl
14:39:16 <fungot> bahl
14:39:21 <fizzie> Ohh.
14:39:22 <elliott> ^. rainbow scramble blah
14:39:23 <elliott> -> the same.
14:39:28 <shachaf> @unspam
14:39:29 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
14:40:21 <shachaf> @listopher robin
14:40:22 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
14:40:28 <oerjan> fungot: i think you are confused about scheme
14:40:28 <fungot> oerjan: but i have to take a look
14:40:33 <ion> I’m too scared to try a really long @@ @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo line, but i’d be entertained by seeing one happen.
14:41:18 <shachaf> @ignore ion
14:41:18 <lambdabot> Not enough privileges
14:41:18 <elliott> @@ @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo line
14:41:20 <shachaf> @ignore + ion
14:41:26 <elliott> @admin - shachaf
14:41:27 <elliott> @ignore - ion
14:41:29 <elliott> Stop that.
14:41:34 <lambdabot> Plugin `compose' failed with: thread killed
14:41:34 <lambdabot> Not enough privileges
14:41:37 <shachaf> Oops.
14:41:39 <elliott> ion: Now you see!
14:41:50 <elliott> @@ @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo line
14:41:50 <ion> :-D I *was* entertained.
14:42:13 <elliott> I think it will look the same.
14:42:19 <elliott> Wait.
14:42:20 <elliott> @ping
14:42:22 <lambdabot> Plugin `compose' failed with: thread killed
14:42:22 <lambdabot> pong
14:42:24 <elliott> Oh.
14:42:43 <oerjan> the command was just decomposing
14:42:44 <elliott> Here's how you get banned from #esoteric:
14:42:50 -!- augur has joined.
14:42:52 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
14:42:53 <ion> So… The composition of @echos isn’t O(n). :-P
14:42:57 <lambdabot> forall a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z t28 t29 t30 t31 t32 t33 t34 t35 t36 t37 t38 t39 t40 t41 t42 t43 t44 t45 t46 t47 t48 t49 t50 t51 t52 t53 t54 t55 t56 t57 t58 t59 t60 t61 t62
14:42:57 <lambdabot> t63 t64 t65 t66 t67 t68 t69 t70 t71 t72 t73 t74 t75 t76 t77 t78 t79 t80 t81 t82 t83 t84 t85 t86 t87 t88 t89 t90 t91 t92 t93 t94 t95 t96 t97 t98 t99 t100 t101 t102 t103 t104 t105 t106 t107 t108 t109
14:42:57 <lambdabot> t110 t111 t112 t113 t114 t115 t116 t117 t118 t119 t120 t121 t122 t123 t124 t125 t126 t127 t128 t129 t130 t131 t132 t133 t134 t135 t136 t137 t138 t139 t140 t141 t142 t143 t144 t145 t146 t147 t148
14:42:57 <lambdabot> t149 t150 t151 t152 t153 t154 t155 t156 t157 t158 t159 t160 t161 t162 t163 t164 t165 t166 t167 t168 t169 t170 t171 t172 t173 t174 t175 t176 t177 t178 t179 t180 t181 t182 t183 t184 t185 t186 t187
14:42:57 <lambdabot> t188 t189 t190 t191 t192 t193 t194 t195 t196 t197 t198 t199 t200 t201 t202 t203 t204 t205 t206 t207 t208 t209 t210 t211 t212 t213 t214 t215 t216 t217 t218 t219 t220 t221 t222 t223 t224 t225 t226
14:42:59 <lambdabot> [34 @more lines]
14:43:01 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
14:43:02 <elliott> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
14:43:02 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
14:43:02 -!- audy has left ("["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]").
14:43:02 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
14:43:09 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
14:43:11 <lambdabot> forall a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z t28 t29 t30 t31 t32 t33 t34 t35 t36 t37 t38 t39 t40 t41 t42 t43 t44 t45 t46 t47 t48 t49 t50 t51 t52 t53 t54 t55 t56 t57 t58 t59 t60 t61 t62
14:43:11 <lambdabot> t63 t64 t65 t66 t67 t68 t69 t70 t71 t72 t73 t74 t75 t76 t77 t78 t79 t80 t81 t82 t83 t84 t85 t86 t87 t88 t89 t90 t91 t92 t93 t94 t95 t96 t97 t98 t99 t100 t101 t102 t103 t104 t105 t106 t107 t108 t109
14:43:11 <lambdabot> t110 t111 t112 t113 t114 t115 t116 t117 t118 t119 t120 t121 t122 t123 t124 t125 t126 t127 t128 t129 t130 t131 t132 t133 t134 t135 t136 t137 t138 t139 t140 t141 t142 t143 t144 t145 t146 t147 t148
14:43:11 <lambdabot> t149 t150 t151 t152 t153 t154 t155 t156 t157 t158 t159 t160 t161 t162 t163 t164 t165 t166 t167 t168 t169 t170 t171 t172 t173 t174 t175 t176 t177 t178 t179 t180 t181 t182 t183 t184 t185 t186 t187
14:43:11 <lambdabot> t188 t189 t190 t191 t192 t193 t194 t195 t196 t197 t198 t199 t200 t201 t202 t203 t204 t205 t206 t207 t208 t209 t210 t211 t212 t213 t214 t215 t216 t217 t218 t219 t220 t221 t222 t223 t224 t225 t226
14:43:13 <lambdabot> [35 @more lines]
14:43:14 <elliott> @more
14:43:15 <elliott> @more
14:43:15 <elliott> @more
14:43:15 <elliott> @more
14:43:15 <lambdabot> t227 t228 t229 t230 t231 t232 t233 t234 t235 t236 t237 t238 t239 t240 t241 t242 t243 t244 t245 t246 t247 t248 t249 t250 t251 t252 t253 t254 t255 t256 t257 t258 t259 t260 t261 t262 t263 t264 t265
14:43:15 <elliott> @more
14:43:16 <elliott> @more
14:43:17 <elliott> @more
14:43:17 <lambdabot> t266 t267 t268 t269 t270 t271 t272 t273 t274 t275 t276 t277 t278 t279 t280 t281 t282 t283 t284 t285 t286 t287 t288 t289 t290 t291 t292 t293 t294 t295 t296 t297 t298 t299 t300 t301 t302 t303 t304
14:43:19 <elliott> @more
14:43:19 <lambdabot> t305 t306 t307 t308 t309 t310 t311 t312 t313 t314 t315 t316 t317 t318 t319 t320 t321 t322 t323 t324 t325 t326 t327 t328 t329 t330 t331 t332 t333 t334 t335 t336 t337 t338 t339 t340 t341 t342 t343
14:43:21 <elliott> @more
14:43:21 <lambdabot> t344 t345 t346 t347 t348 t349 t350 t351 t352 t353 t354 t355 t356 t357 t358 t359 t360 t361 t362 t363 t364 t365 t366 t367 t368 t369 t370 t371 t372 t373 t374 t375 t376 t377 t378 t379 t380 t381 t382
14:43:23 <elliott> @more
14:43:23 <lambdabot> t383 t384 t385 t386 t387 t388 t389 t390 t391 t392 t393 t394 t395 t396 t397 t398 t399 t400 t401 t402 t403 t404 t405 t406 t407 t408 t409 t410 t411 t412 t413 t414 t415 t416 t417 t418 t419 t420 t421
14:43:25 <elliott> @more
14:43:25 <lambdabot> [30 @more lines]
14:43:27 <elliott> @more
14:43:27 <lambdabot> t422 t423 t424 t425 t426 t427 t428 t429 t430 t431 t432 t433. a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> g -> h -> i -> j -> k -> l -> m -> n -> o -> p -> q -> r -> s -> t -> u -> v -> w -> x -> y -> z -> t28 ->
14:43:29 <elliott> @more
14:43:29 <lambdabot> t29 -> t30 -> t31 -> t32 -> t33 -> t34 -> t35 -> t36 -> t37 -> t38 -> t39 -> t40 -> t41 -> t42 -> t43 -> t44 -> t45 -> t46 -> t47 -> t48 -> t49 -> t50 -> t51 -> t52 -> t53 -> t54 -> t55 -> t56 ->
14:43:31 <elliott> @more
14:43:31 <lambdabot> Plugin `more' failed with: thread killed
14:43:33 <elliott> @more
14:43:35 <elliott> @more
14:43:37 <elliott> @more
14:43:38 -!- oerjan has kicked elliott elliott.
14:43:43 -!- elliott has joined.
14:43:45 <elliott> @more
14:43:47 <elliott> MAAAAAAAAN
14:43:49 <elliott> That wasn't a ban.
14:43:50 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*elliott@unaffiliated/elliott.
14:43:51 -!- oerjan has kicked elliott elliott.
14:44:25 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*elliott@unaffiliated/elliott.
14:44:29 -!- elliott has joined.
14:44:45 <elliott> That was a rubbish ban. I barely even got to experience it.
14:44:59 <shachaf> Wow. What does it take to get *properly* banned from #esoteric?
14:45:04 <elliott> I'm going to redirect oerjan's page to Esme.
14:45:39 <elliott> shachaf: You have to be not generally known to be trollish, and not be actively disrupting any ongoing conversation.
14:45:48 <elliott> That gets you the real solid bans, IME.
14:45:58 <shachaf> oerjan: @swat elliott
14:46:06 <oerjan> @swat elliott
14:46:06 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: slap what
14:46:09 <elliott> If you don't live up to one of those it's very, very difficult to get banned.
14:46:16 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
14:46:19 <shachaf> oerjan: kick me
14:46:23 <elliott> You could even, I don't know, spam the channel with "3" for five minutes while people are talking.
14:46:26 <elliott> You'd never get banned.
14:46:32 <elliott> Isn't that right, oerjan?
14:46:47 <shachaf> «"3" for five»
14:46:49 <shachaf> I get it.
14:46:56 <elliott> No, the joke is that that actually happened.
14:47:02 <elliott> You don't get it. :(
14:47:14 <shachaf> What if I don't get it, but actually I do get it?
14:47:24 <elliott> That's impossible. Only I get it.
14:47:44 <shachaf> That's true for all your jokes.
14:47:49 <elliott> No.
14:47:52 <elliott> Sometimes not even I get it.
14:47:55 <oerjan> how to get banned: (1) be elliott
14:48:06 <shachaf> oerjan: Doesn't seem to have worked for the last 5 years.
14:48:14 <shachaf> Maybe we should invite conal in here.
14:48:29 <oerjan> shachaf: elliott has been banned. not for very _long_, but...
14:48:49 <shachaf> This place is so un-denotative conal couldn't stand it.
14:48:59 <elliott> oerjan: Longer than some other people.
14:49:07 <shachaf> oerjan: Ban me!
14:49:09 <elliott> Much more frequently, too.
14:49:12 * shachaf is secretly elliott.
14:49:13 <ion> How to get banned: 0. Be a regular channel user for years. 1. Gain operators’ trust. 2. Get ops. 3. Ban yourself.
14:49:29 <shachaf> oerjan: Ban me!
14:49:33 <elliott> oerjan: Op me so I can ban shachaf.
14:49:35 <elliott> And ion if he wants it.
14:50:01 <elliott> If you don't, you are going against the will of the people.
14:50:22 <oerjan> what is the use of ops if you don't go against the will of the peple
14:50:23 <ion> or at least the peephole
14:50:39 <elliott> oerjan: Uh, I'll ban someone else after that too.
14:50:43 <elliott> I will choose who to ban... at RANDOM.
14:50:45 <elliott> The ban will last for 30 seconds.
14:50:55 <elliott> Standard procedure.
14:50:58 <shachaf> Ørjan: Ban me!
14:51:05 <shachaf> Seriously. Do it.
14:51:17 <shachaf> At least kick me. :-(
14:51:24 <elliott> oerjan: Also, I'll go against the will of shachaf.
14:51:27 <elliott> I won't be oerjan when I ban him.
14:51:28 <elliott> I'll be me.
14:51:36 <elliott> He will be dissatisfied, yet justice will be served.
14:51:47 <elliott> Also, that ban will only last for 30 seconds too.
14:52:07 <shachaf> Justive is served at 10:00 daily.
14:52:16 <shachaf> Delicious justive.
14:52:37 <elliott> oerjan: I have a busy schedule.
14:53:21 <elliott> shachaf: Ban oerjan.
14:53:50 <shachaf> oerjan: Ban me!
14:53:54 <oerjan> this is going about as expected.
14:54:22 <shachaf> oerjan: I'm expecting you to ban me.
14:54:33 <shachaf> oerjan: Look, I don't want to spam the channel.
14:54:34 <elliott> oerjan: Op me then ban me.
14:54:45 <elliott> Then I'll ban shachaf, and kick myself.
14:54:53 <shachaf> oerjan: Can you just pretend I did and ban me?
14:54:56 <elliott> With my hands tied.
14:54:59 <elliott> And my nose underwter.
14:55:03 <elliott> *underwater
14:55:30 <shachaf> Does the '*' represent your nose?
14:55:33 <shachaf> *underwater
14:55:38 <elliott> yes.
14:55:50 <ion> It looks more like another hole.
14:56:18 <elliott> oerjan: Op me.
14:56:23 <elliott> God, you've done it before.
14:56:30 <elliott> I've never overstepped my kickban boundaries!
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15:01:49 <elliott> oerjan: Ban oerjan.
15:08:02 <oerjan> elliott: you realize episodes like this is why we're afraid of ever making you a real op, right?
15:08:47 <oerjan> s/we're/i am/
15:08:49 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude.
15:09:59 <elliott> EPISODES.
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15:10:26 <elliott> shachaf: Ban oerjan and then op asiekierka and rename aloril to comex.
15:11:06 <shachaf> oerjan: Ban me!
15:11:40 <elliott> If only I'd known wasting time on IRC by repeating snowclones constantly is the way to avoid becoming an op...
15:12:02 <shachaf> elliott: You could become an op easily.
15:12:17 <shachaf> There's a vacuum of ops in other channels on Freenode.
15:12:21 <shachaf> Go to one of those.
15:14:55 <oerjan> but the vacuum is because they all suck!
15:16:15 * quintopia groans
15:16:35 <quintopia> would you mind swatting yourself for that?
15:16:59 <elliott> I suggest he bans himself for it instead.
15:17:01 <elliott> That's more festive.
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15:22:53 <asiekierka> elliott wait what
15:25:55 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/23 this external resource formatting sucks :(
15:50:29 -!- RocketJSquirrel has changed nick to Gregor.
15:50:39 <Gregor> Back to work apparently = back to Gregor.
15:52:06 -!- Gregor has changed nick to RocketJSquirrel.
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16:29:28 <quintopia> so, udacity class is all in Python
16:29:37 <quintopia> it is only unit 4 and i already hate Python
16:30:01 <quintopia> i used to hear people say "it's a great learning language!"
16:30:12 <quintopia> bullshit. i'd rather use javascript than python
16:32:12 <ion> Not only that but he also writes code like it’s C.
16:32:19 <ion> Recommended: inhaling a droplet of listerine.
16:34:30 <ais523> quintopia: ion: are you in the same class somehow?
16:34:53 <quintopia> it is likely
16:34:56 <ion> With some probability since they have two classes that have been running for about four weeks.
16:35:02 <quintopia> cs373?
16:35:04 <ion> yeah
16:35:10 <quintopia> then yes :)
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16:36:42 <ion> Hi, I'm Brendan Eich, welcome to my homepage. I'm the inventor of JavaScript. http://web.archive.org/web/19990128210124/http://people.netscape.com/brendan/
16:36:57 <quintopia> the first three units were quite alright, since i'd never studied filters before, but this one was just annoying. i can't believe he calls this algorithm "dynamic programming". its an insult to the concept of dynamic programming.
16:50:57 <monqy> this is a good homepage
16:51:36 <Phantom_Hoover> i
16:51:36 <Phantom_Hoover> wow
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19:50:07 <itidus20> javascript is pretty cool
19:50:34 <itidus20> perhaps more for what it does than how it does it?
19:59:21 <itidus20> i love trying to be creative on the application/domain level.. for me learning math is about learning how to relate things happening on an application/domain level to whatever is contained in math books
19:59:37 <itidus20> as time goes by i find there is always relevance.. but seeing the relevance can be difficult
20:00:18 <itidus20> like i am not at the stage where i can see alice in wonderland as an application of math, but thats where i think i want to be
20:01:58 <itidus20> mario is jumping? no mario is translating positively then negatively along the x axis
20:02:42 <olsner> ion: that web page is awesome, but I can't tell if it's supposed to be ironic
20:03:02 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi.
20:03:08 <itidus20> gameover? no.. lives <= 0
20:03:21 <ion> olsner: It is a joke.
20:04:22 <olsner> ok, I just decided that that makes it less awesome
20:05:00 <itidus20> olsner: maybe you miss the pre-flash pre-mysql web
20:06:33 <ion> olsner: …but it is still from 1999.
20:06:57 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
20:07:21 <itidus20> i miss that stage of the web
20:08:37 <itidus20> when uh... it was all about people trying to get their html website on a top 100 list.. and when webrings were popular.. cjb.net... geocities.com ..
20:09:30 <itidus20> embedded midi files
20:10:31 <itidus20> i guess thats technically all still possible
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20:14:26 <itidus20> from wiki... Brendan Eich, the creator of JavaScript, commented that "ECMAScript was always an unwanted trade name that sounds like a skin disease."
20:15:49 <olsner> ACNEScript, web scripting for proper nerds
20:16:04 <itidus20> Objective-J .. this.. can't be a good thing
20:19:48 <itidus20> ok maybe it can what do i know? nothing
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20:29:15 <shadwick> helo
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20:29:47 <oerjan> evening
20:30:59 <shadwick> I noticed your Bag language page one day cycleing through Random links
20:31:06 <shadwick> ever finished a spec?
20:31:16 <shadwick> from 10 years ago it seems?
20:31:51 <oerjan> not more finished than what you see, i think.
20:32:01 <shadwick> ah ok
20:32:03 <shadwick> just curious
20:32:31 <RocketJSquirrel> *tsk tsk*
20:32:31 <lambdabot> RocketJSquirrel: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
20:32:32 <oerjan> i think the syntax is finished? so you can at least write fractran-equivalent programs in it.
20:32:33 <RocketJSquirrel> For shame.
20:32:56 <oerjan> but the ideas for how to do I/O aren't
20:33:50 <oerjan> whenever i think about implementing it, i tend to get stuck in my clever idea on how to factorize actual numbers enough to turn them into the identifier format.
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21:17:32 <RocketJSquirrel> `words
21:17:40 <HackEgo> privit
21:17:59 <RocketJSquirrel> `words
21:18:04 <HackEgo> yuilde
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21:59:18 <Phantom_Hoover> `words
21:59:23 <HackEgo> tseafsideriect
21:59:37 <Phantom_Hoover> `words
21:59:42 <HackEgo> ostit
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22:12:08 <oerjan> i am starting to want wordpress to die in a fire for their horrible commenting system
22:12:18 -!- iconmaster has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:14:50 <coppro> oerjan: Is this just another reason for you wanting WP to diaf, or is this a new wanting?
22:15:33 <oerjan> well both, since my previous reason was _also_ related to their commenting system
22:16:35 <coppro> ah ok
22:16:52 <coppro> I think qdb said it best
22:16:57 <coppro> <azonenberg> wordpress is an unauthenticated remote shell that, as a useful side feature, also contains a blog
22:17:19 <oerjan> okay
22:21:00 <oerjan> i suspect that isn't particularly visible for commenters, though. while the lack of preview is.
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23:37:22 <olsner> yay, my compiler can now compile quote, cons, ints and symbols
23:40:33 <olsner> (but it's a bit boring... it looks just like normal metaprogramming: types come in, *code* comes out, yuck)
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23:45:10 <oerjan> never a miscommunication
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