←2012-05-31 2012-06-01 2012-06-02→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:20:08 <itidus20> the problem with porting is that you don't do any design
00:22:33 <itidus20> the word design here is really terrible, but i mean it as, for instance, cat is a design
00:23:27 <itidus20> and then someone can be asked to port cat
00:27:31 <itidus20> ang.wikipedia.org = nglisc :-s
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01:02:57 <elliott> hi
01:04:29 <oerjan> ho
01:04:31 <itidus20> hmm
01:04:55 <itidus20> it's dubious how many blizzard games have anglo-saxon wikipedia pages
01:12:30 <itidus20> ah.. the one guy created 9 pages about blizzard, and also created the category
01:18:38 <itidus20> humm.. ok he created the video games category too, so it's all very boring
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01:30:17 <elliott> Slereah!
01:34:45 <Slereah> Me!
01:35:55 <elliott> Slereah!
01:46:54 <quintopia> elliott: what kind of food. dont have money.
01:46:59 <elliott> what
01:47:07 <quintopia> halp
01:47:17 <elliott> what
01:47:44 <quintopia> what food to buy
01:47:52 <quintopia> cheap good food
01:48:00 <elliott> edible
01:48:01 <elliott> fod
01:48:02 <elliott> food
01:48:10 <quintopia> yes
01:48:13 <quintopia> good criterion
01:48:18 <quintopia> i'll make list:
01:48:22 <quintopia> -cheap
01:48:24 <quintopia> -good
01:48:26 <quintopia> -edible
01:48:38 <oerjan> pick two!
01:48:50 <quintopia> oerjan: halp
01:49:22 * oerjan hands quintopia some delicious poison for free
01:50:09 <quintopia> poison? i have decided that edible is more important than good
01:50:21 <oerjan> ah.
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02:59:55 <itidus20> bread and milk
03:01:10 <elliott> hi
03:02:52 <itidus20> and you are to drink the milk from a ceramic mug, and rip off pieces of the bread with your bare hands
03:03:15 * oerjan recalls when he used to browse the reddit frontpage and r/all, there were sometimes posts about how to get enough food with very little money
03:03:45 <itidus20> quintopia's critereon are pretty lousy
03:04:14 <quintopia> itidus20: criteria
03:04:20 <quintopia> is the plural
03:04:23 <itidus20> oh
03:04:47 <elliott> oerjan: /r/frugal?
03:04:53 <elliott> they're a bit nutty, I think :P
03:05:05 <oerjan> was about to link it :P
03:05:11 <itidus20> focus on optimizing sources of nutrients such as protein and carbohydrates, as well as vitamins and minerals
03:05:32 <itidus20> edible and good is for the rich
03:05:42 <oerjan> http://www.reddit.com/r/Frugal/comments/u13qa/we_rfrugal_week_1_frugal_food/ was linked in the sidebar
03:07:28 <itidus20> "Some people value time over money, and others money over time" hmm thats one way of putting it, another way of putting it is that employed people have less time and more money, and vice versa
03:07:44 <oerjan> from there you can find http://www.reddit.com/r/budgetfood
03:08:02 <itidus20> except some people on welfare have a good life and some people on welfare do not
03:08:56 <itidus20> and, the reason for _that_ is that some people on welfare have parasites around them
03:09:07 <elliott> hi
03:09:08 <oerjan> elliott: although i wasn't originally thinking so much about r/frugal as about "help i only have $NN for the next 3 weeks how can i survive?"
03:09:18 <oerjan> (approximate title there)
03:10:34 <itidus20> in other words, valuing time over money is more of a function of circumstances than an exercize in free will
03:12:07 <itidus20> what i really mean is that, some poeple have more time than money, and others have more money than time
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03:12:35 <itidus20> and they "value" that which they have less of
03:16:42 <elliott> o'reilly have published a book on dwarf fortress
03:16:45 <elliott> ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
03:16:50 <elliott> monqy: help
03:17:07 <monqy> w
03:17:08 <monqy> what
03:17:12 <elliott> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920022565.do
03:17:13 <oerjan> orly?
03:17:18 <monqy> whhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
03:17:20 <elliott> i don't
03:17:20 <elliott> understand
03:17:49 <elliott> but i think i'm going to have to buy it so i can point to the turning point in civilisation in the future when we all live in houses made out of cellophane and breathe glass and mate with antennae
03:18:09 <elliott> @ask Phantom_Hoover http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920022565.do ???????????????
03:18:09 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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03:26:14 <itidus20> i found this while looking up that http://i37.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0530/c2/04e811128cee4d89747f9621a5756fc2.jpeg
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03:44:24 <tswett> elliott: your name is now Robert J! Lake. As such, you are no longer my baby nephew.
03:44:32 <elliott> ok
03:45:19 <tswett> Okay, so. This language in which all computation is carried out via rounding errors.
03:46:08 <tswett> I think a program should consists of a list of instructions that are looped through forever. The program will have access to an arbitrary but finite number of variables each capable of holding an arbitrary non-negative integer.
03:46:29 <tswett> Every variable is initialized to 1.
03:47:38 <tswett> There are three instructions: "add Y to X", "multiply X by 2^(Y/3) and round", and "divide X by 2^(Y/3) and round".
03:47:50 <tswett> That's the language.
03:49:25 <tswett> It might be Turing-complete. I have no idea how one would go about proving it either way.
03:50:03 <tswett> Also, the name of a variable must consist entirely of numerals, and the first of these cannot be 0.
03:53:21 <tswett> I guess we'll make that "round down", to avoid ambiguity.
03:56:23 <tswett> Here's a program, I guess: http://pastie.org/4005760
03:56:56 <tswett> After n > 0 iterations, 1 has the value 1, 2 has the value 3, 3 has the value 2^n, and 4 has the value 2^(n+1) - 1. I think.
03:59:08 <elliott> For the benefit of future generations:
03:59:08 <elliott> [[
03:59:09 <elliott> 2 >> 2
03:59:10 <elliott> 2 += 1
03:59:12 <elliott> 2 += 1
03:59:14 <elliott> 2 += 1
03:59:16 <elliott> 3 << 2
03:59:18 <elliott> 4 += 3
03:59:20 <elliott> ]]
04:10:14 <tswett> Okay, I don't think multiplication by 2^(1/3) is actually a useful operation.
04:10:37 <tswett> So, let's do the same, except these are the operations:
04:10:58 <tswett> "subtract Y from X", "calculate the number of groups of order X".
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05:22:45 <zzo38> ?messages
05:22:46 <lambdabot> shachaf asked 2d 1h 9m 16s ago: hi
05:22:46 <lambdabot> Taneb asked 10h 53m 45s ago: What does fair do?
05:26:06 <zzo38> Taneb: Read the document for MonadLogic for some information about >>- it is a fair junction or something like that; fair ["Hello", "World"] = "HWeolrllod"; fair ["Hello", "World", "12345"] = "HWe1lol2or3l4d5"
05:26:22 <zzo38> So it is something like join but using a different order
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06:09:08 <itidus20> FORTRAN's tragic fate has been its wide acceptance. APL is a mistake. students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.
06:09:23 <elliott> hi
06:09:29 <itidus20> LISP has assisted a number of our most gifted fellow humans in thinking previously impossible thoughts.
06:12:37 <itidus20> The use of COBOL cripples the mind
06:13:07 <elliott> hi
06:13:36 <shachaf> elliott: You know Control.Concurrent.Spawn?
06:13:41 <elliott> yes
06:13:58 <shachaf> What's the way you're supposed to use "pool"?
06:14:17 <shachaf> I was thinking of do { runOne <- pool limit; parMapIO_ (runOne . foo) [1..n] }, but that still spawns n threads most of which do nothing at any point in time, which seems like it might not be strictly necessary.
06:14:27 <elliott> you realise kmc is in here right
06:14:38 <shachaf> Yes, but he's not responding.
06:14:43 <shachaf> (In the other channel, at least.)
06:14:44 <elliott> shachaf: anyway that sounds correct to me
06:15:03 <shachaf> But spawning a million threads is annoying when most of them are just waiting on the QSem.
06:15:08 <itidus20> full PL/1, with its growth characteristics of a dangerous tumor, could turn out to be a fatal disease.
06:15:10 <shachaf> In particular it means that my program is slow and takes 100% CPU
06:15:42 <elliott> shachaf: does runOne do that?
06:17:18 <shachaf> parMapIO_ does
06:24:30 <shachaf> [no comment]
06:24:39 <elliott> im slep
06:25:04 <shachaf> O, now I see.
06:25:05 <shachaf> zzo38?
06:25:30 <zzo38> shachaf: OK?
06:25:38 <itidus20> catch some z's?
06:25:47 <shachaf> zzo38: Any ideas?
06:25:54 <itidus20> oh
06:25:57 <zzo38> Idea of...?
06:26:09 <shachaf> How pool is supposed to be used.
06:26:15 <zzo38> I don't know.
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08:19:10 <shachaf> `quote monqy.*hit
08:19:18 <HackEgo> 815) <Sgeo> hack and back? <Patashu> works on anything much slower than you <monqy> at the cost of: guilt, hating yourself, me sending you the message "hi" <Patashu> am I also forbidden to cast mephitic cloud and cblink <monqy> i will also send you "hi" if you: kite excessively, use mephitic cloud, -yes \ 829) <monqy> imagine hitting a brick wall really really hard but you don't do anything to it. instead you explode.
08:19:28 <shachaf> `quote monqy.*brick.wall
08:19:32 <HackEgo> 829) <monqy> imagine hitting a brick wall really really hard but you don't do anything to it. instead you explode. <monqy> that's what it's like for people who hit you
08:29:45 <shachaf> monqy: "i quoted you in another channel"
08:29:53 <monqy> oh no what happened
08:30:01 <shachaf> not hing
08:30:50 <monqy> do you have logs of what happened it's my quote I want to know!!
08:31:32 <shachaf> 01:19 <shachaf> <monqy> imagine hitting a brick wall really really hard but you don't do anything to it. instead you explode. <monqy> that's what it's like for people who hit you
08:31:36 <shachaf> 01:19 <shachaf> I want something like that, except for sending SIGHUP instead of hitting
08:31:47 <shachaf> Because my process is getting a SIGHUP and I don't know why. :-(
08:32:01 <monqy> :(
08:32:08 <itidus20> so there was some ants today
08:32:21 <itidus20> but, they .. apparently lost interest
08:33:03 <itidus20> should i feel rejected or relieved
08:33:30 <itidus20> unless THEY were the scouts
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09:43:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh for...
09:43:15 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
09:43:30 <Phantom_Hoover> I get Bastion from the HiB and the checksum's wrong.
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09:52:29 <fizzie> Wasn't it some sort of ridiculous size.
09:52:32 <fizzie> I think many of them were.
09:52:35 <fizzie> Like, gigabytes.
09:52:55 <nortti> what!? gigabytes?
09:53:31 <nortti> I only got HD that has over 512MB 6 years ago
09:59:20 <fizzie> For the Linux versions, Amnesia: The Dark Descent is "1.1 GB", Bastion "1019 MB", and Psychonauts "4.1 GB".
09:59:40 <fizzie> LIMBO and that Sword & Sorcery thing are rather smaller.
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10:02:26 <labbekak> > 1 + 1
10:02:27 <lambdabot> 2
10:02:31 <labbekak> phew
10:04:10 <fizzie> What a relief.
10:04:37 <labbekak> hallelujah praise the lord
10:04:38 <fizzie> > let 1 + 1 = 3 in 1 + 1
10:04:39 <lambdabot> 3
10:04:44 <labbekak> > let 1 = 2
10:04:45 <lambdabot> not an expression: `let 1 = 2'
10:05:03 <labbekak> 0.o
10:05:15 <labbekak> what did you do
10:05:18 <labbekak> you broke it
10:05:28 <fizzie> No, you didn't give it a complete expression.
10:05:38 <labbekak> ah
10:05:38 <fizzie> > let 1 = 2 in 1 -- sadly, it is still just 1
10:05:40 <lambdabot> 1
10:05:48 <labbekak> :(
10:06:01 <labbekak> i cant express myself completely if i cant set 1 to 2
10:09:38 <labbekak> > foldl + [1..10]
10:09:39 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `(a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> a'
10:09:39 <lambdabot> again...
10:09:53 <itidus20> there are 2+2 lights!
10:10:11 <labbekak> let 2+2=5 in 2+2
10:10:20 <labbekak> > let 2+2=5 in 2+2
10:10:21 <lambdabot> 5
10:10:29 <itidus20> no.. lambdabot is wrong
10:10:40 <itidus20> there are 4 lights
10:10:42 <labbekak> hes a robot
10:10:44 <labbekak> he cant be wrong
10:10:50 <labbekak> your human
10:10:52 <labbekak> your wrong
10:11:31 <itidus20> humm
10:11:39 <itidus20> > let 2+2=5 in 2+3
10:11:40 <lambdabot> *Exception: <interactive>:3:4-8: Non-exhaustive patterns in function +
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10:12:12 <labbekak> i agree lambdabot
10:12:21 <itidus20> > let 2+2=5 in 1+3
10:12:21 <labbekak> itidus is wrong
10:12:22 <lambdabot> *Exception: <interactive>:3:4-8: Non-exhaustive patterns in function +
10:12:35 <labbekak> > 'a'
10:12:36 <lambdabot> 'a'
10:12:42 <labbekak> > 'a' + 1
10:12:43 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Char)
10:12:43 <lambdabot> arising from the literal `1...
10:13:04 <itidus20> > let 2+2=5 in 4
10:13:06 <lambdabot> 4
10:13:25 <labbekak> > chr $ ord 'a' + 1
10:13:26 <lambdabot> 'b'
10:13:48 <itidus20> > let 2+2=5 in 5-1
10:13:49 <lambdabot> 4
10:14:19 <labbekak> > (chr . (+1) . ord) 'a'
10:14:21 <lambdabot> 'b'
10:14:27 <itidus20> don't mind me. i don't know haskell and i'm extremely bored
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10:14:42 <labbekak> thats oke
10:14:44 <labbekak> same here
10:14:47 <itidus20> yay
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10:15:06 <labbekak> > map (chr.(+1).ord) "Same here"
10:15:06 <fizzie> > succ 'a'
10:15:08 <lambdabot> can't find file: L.hs
10:15:09 <lambdabot> "Tbnf!ifsf"
10:15:22 <fizzie> That was a confusion.
10:15:25 <fizzie> > succ 'a'
10:15:26 <lambdabot> 'b'
10:15:31 <labbekak> ooh nice
10:15:40 <labbekak> map succ "Same here"
10:15:45 <labbekak> > map succ "Same here"
10:15:46 <lambdabot> "Tbnf!ifsf"
10:15:48 <fizzie> Works for any Enum.
10:15:53 <fizzie> :t succ
10:15:53 <itidus20> > succ succ 'a'
10:15:54 <lambdabot> forall a. (Enum a) => a -> a
10:15:54 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum (GHC.Types.Char -> GHC.Types.Char))
10:15:54 <lambdabot> arisi...
10:16:18 <labbekak> > succ succ succ 'a'
10:16:19 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum (GHC.Types.Char -> GHC.Types.Char))
10:16:19 <lambdabot> arisi...
10:16:28 <fizzie> > succ . succ . succ $ 'a' -- keep on sucking.
10:16:29 <lambdabot> 'd'
10:16:41 <labbekak> ah
10:16:50 <Deewiant> > iterate succ 'a' !! 10
10:16:51 <lambdabot> 'k'
10:17:01 <fizzie> Deewiant: So efficient.
10:17:19 <labbekak> > let twice f = f . f in twice succ 'a'
10:17:21 <lambdabot> 'c'
10:17:26 <Deewiant> > ['a'..] !! 10
10:17:27 <lambdabot> 'k'
10:17:52 <itidus20> > 'k'
10:17:53 <lambdabot> 'k'
10:18:30 <itidus20> > k
10:18:31 <lambdabot> k
10:18:40 <labbekak> > let power f n = f . f . f .. n in power succ 10 'a'
10:18:41 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `..'
10:18:44 <labbekak> how to do this?
10:18:45 <itidus20> >'k'
10:19:56 <labbekak> > [1..]
10:19:57 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28...
10:20:14 <fizzie> > succ (maxBound :: Char) -- TO OUTER LIMITS ... AND BEYOND
10:20:15 <lambdabot> *Exception: Prelude.Enum.Char.succ: bad argument
10:20:17 <fizzie> Aw.
10:20:25 <itidus20> > Haskell Curry
10:20:26 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `Haskell'Not in scope: data constructor `Cur...
10:20:27 <labbekak> :(
10:20:39 <labbekak> > i am awesome
10:20:40 <Deewiant> > chr . (+1) . ord $ '\x10ffff'
10:20:41 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `am'Not in scope: `awesome'
10:20:43 <lambdabot> *Exception: Prelude.chr: bad argument: 1114112
10:21:55 <fizzie> Deewiant: \x110000 is the name of the $deity.
10:22:30 <Deewiant> > '\x110000'
10:22:31 <lambdabot> <no location info>:
10:22:31 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at chara...
10:22:51 <labbekak> > let power f n r = if n == 1 then r else power f (n-1) (f . r)
10:22:52 <lambdabot> not an expression: `let power f n r = if n == 1 then r else power f (n-1) (...
10:23:18 <labbekak> > let power f n r = if n == 1 then r else power f (n-1) (f . r) in power succ 10 () 'a'
10:23:19 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `f a' against inferred type `()'
10:23:30 <labbekak> > let power f n r = if n == 1 then r else power f (n-1) (f . r) in power succ 10 succ 'a'
10:23:32 <lambdabot> 'k'
10:23:35 <Deewiant> > unsafeCoerce 0x110000 :: Char
10:23:35 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `unsafeCoerce'
10:23:45 <Deewiant> '\1114112'
10:24:55 <labbekak> > map (chr . (ord 'A' + ) . ord) "Albert"
10:24:56 <lambdabot> "\130\173\163\166\179\181"
10:25:24 <fizzie> Deewiant: Haskell is just not good enough to express it.
10:25:52 <labbekak> > map (1+) [1..]
10:25:53 <lambdabot> [2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,2...
10:26:13 <labbekak> this lambdabot is a clever fella
10:26:33 <qfr> What language is that
10:26:36 <labbekak> Haskell
10:26:39 <qfr> I'm just kidding
10:26:46 <labbekak> ITS NOT FUNNY
10:27:27 <labbekak> > let "hes just kidding" = "ok" in "hes just kidding"
10:27:28 <lambdabot> "hes just kidding"
10:28:12 <labbekak> > i = 5
10:28:13 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `='
10:28:23 <labbekak> > let i = 5
10:28:24 <lambdabot> not an expression: `let i = 5'
10:28:31 <labbekak> > global i = 5
10:28:32 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `='
10:28:34 <labbekak> pff
10:29:45 <labbekak> > "I" > "You"
10:29:46 <lambdabot> False
10:29:49 <labbekak> 0.o
10:29:51 <labbekak> damn
10:30:35 <labbekak> > "Albert" `max` "lambdabot"
10:30:36 <lambdabot> "lambdabot"
10:30:42 <labbekak> lambdabot: hey
10:31:06 <Deewiant> @vixen hey
10:31:06 <lambdabot> This is a great day for France!
10:31:06 <fizzie> A proud bot.
10:31:48 <labbekak> I wish I had a lambdabot, I would take her to the park.
10:32:01 <fizzie> fungot: What do you think of your fellow bot?
10:32:01 <fungot> fizzie: dd does binary doesn't it? :) fnord je? :) taken me all night to watch this show!"
10:32:15 <fizzie> Uh...
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11:20:45 <labbekak> _niels: hey!
11:20:49 <labbekak> > 1+ 1
11:20:50 <lambdabot> 2
11:21:22 <labbekak> _niels: try it out
11:22:13 <_niels> > reverse "trebla olleh"
11:22:14 <lambdabot> "hello albert"
11:22:19 <labbekak> :D
11:22:55 <labbekak> > (succ . reverse) "slein olleh"
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11:22:56 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum [GHC.Types.Char])
11:22:56 <lambdabot> arising from a use of `...
11:22:59 -!- DH____ has joined.
11:24:06 <labbekak> > let 1+1=2 in 1+1
11:24:07 <lambdabot> 2
11:24:41 <labbekak> > let 1+1=3 in 1+1
11:24:42 <lambdabot> 3
11:24:55 -!- labbekak has left.
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11:26:17 <fizzie> Taneb: You've been talked to.
11:26:22 <Taneb> Hello!
11:26:23 <Taneb> Aaah!
11:26:27 <Taneb> @messags?
11:26:27 <lambdabot> Sorry, no messages today.
11:26:34 <Taneb> That typo works!?
11:26:38 <fizzie> 08:26 <zzo38> Taneb: Read the document for MonadLogic for some information about >>- it is a fair junction or something like that; fair ["Hello", "World"] = "HWeolrllod"; fair ["Hello", "World", "12345"] = "HWe1lol2or3l4d5"
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11:26:43 <fizzie> 08:26 <zzo38> So it is something like join but using a different order
11:27:01 <fizzie> The regular sort of talked to, not via the bot.
11:27:19 <Taneb> FSVO of talked to
11:28:16 <Taneb> Also regular
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11:38:43 <Taneb> Thanks, past zzo38!
11:38:54 -!- Frooxius|TabletP has joined.
11:44:11 <fizzie> The once and future zzo38. (I don't recall what that references.)
11:44:30 <Taneb> Arthurian mythology
11:44:37 <Taneb> King Arthur, the once and future king
11:44:39 <Taneb> I think
11:44:55 <fizzie> Yes, I think so too, though I believe via something else.
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12:04:59 <Taneb> It was a short story by someone, I think
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13:06:10 <Taneb> Hello!
13:06:21 <oerjan> hi
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13:07:25 <boily> hi!
13:07:25 <lambdabot> boily: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
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15:58:14 <elliott> hi
15:58:15 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 7 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
16:02:03 <Gregor> @tell elliott And now you have 8.
16:02:03 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
16:02:38 <elliott> hi
16:02:39 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
16:02:41 <elliott> wrong!!!!
16:06:15 <Gregor> :'(
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18:28:32 <Taneb> Hello
18:28:40 <Taneb> I've just realised I am unable to program in C
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18:38:39 <ais523> Taneb: do you see this as a problem?
18:38:54 <Taneb> I see it as a mild annoyance
18:39:17 <Taneb> It means I'm not going to win the IOCCC any time soon
18:40:35 <Gregor> #1 reason to program in C, obviously.
18:40:41 <Taneb> Definitely
18:45:43 <Sgeo__> I kind of hate VXJunkies, because it traps people who think it's real
18:46:06 <kmc> what is it
18:46:22 <Sgeo__> http://www.reddit.com/r/VXJunkies
18:46:26 <kmc> does not help
18:47:10 <Sgeo__> http://www.reddit.com/r/VXJunkies/comments/rt7pa/new_to_vx_help/
18:47:26 <elliott> this just in: Sgeo__ "hates jokes; they're misleading"
18:47:52 <kmc> so this is just
18:47:54 <kmc> fake science?
18:48:02 <Sgeo__> I more hate not actually explaining the joke to people who don't get it and think it's real
18:48:20 <Sgeo__> kmc, fake ... some sort of principle machines
18:48:39 <Sgeo__> The FAQ http://www.reddit.com/r/VXJunkies/comments/ewihz/
18:50:17 <ais523> hmm, time for an "am I crazy or not" question: reducing the number of bugs Splint finds in my code by finding false positives and patching Splint to detect them correctly
18:50:20 <Sgeo__> Sent two messages to people in that subreddit who may have thought it was real
18:50:59 <Sgeo__> ais523, would these be general use patches or would their general use result in false negatives?
18:51:22 <ais523> they're meant to be general use, although (obviously) might be buggy
18:51:44 <ais523> amazingly, I managed to get two false positives in the same line
18:52:04 <nortti_> yay. got staticaly linked sash to work.
18:53:16 <ais523> /* at file scope */ typedef /*@dependent@*/ int* dependentint_p; static dependent_int global_array_of_dependent_ints[10]; /*@dependent@*/ int *foo(void) {return global_array_of_dependent_ints[5];}
18:53:46 <ais523> the bugs were a) it was checking to see if the global was owned, rather than owned /or/ dependent; b) it was checking the annotation on the array itself, rather than the array's elements
18:54:09 <ais523> meanwhile, I have replaced a bunch of for loops with do-while loops because Splint is a little braindead with respect to loops
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18:55:09 <ais523> `?welcome Wallabee
18:55:12 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?welcome: not found
18:55:20 <ais523> `welcome Wallabee
18:55:23 <HackEgo> Wallabee: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
18:55:56 <ais523> hmm, dreadnaught is now beating everything but counterpoke? ouch
18:56:02 <ais523> looks like I made counterpoke just in time
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19:10:10 <Sgeo__> ais523, Wallabee is probably Gregor
19:10:30 <Gregor> Nope.
19:10:52 * ais523 vaguely accuses itidus20 of being Gregor
19:11:08 <Sgeo__> Well, Gregor is a wallabee
19:11:14 <Gregor> No, I'm Lawlabee.
19:11:17 <Gregor> The Wallaby.
19:11:24 <Gregor> My species is still spelled properly.
19:18:13 <kmc> @remember mrwright Some people, when faced with a problem, say "I know, I'll use transfinite induction over the ordinals!" Now they have a class-sized collection of problems.
19:18:13 <lambdabot> It is forever etched in my memory.
19:19:29 <elliott> heh
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19:41:56 <david_werecat> I just learnt that parameter optimization is VERY slow...
19:42:41 <Taneb> Gregor: CRAZY SUGGESTION: !bf_joust_test
19:43:49 <david_werecat> I'm using an offline compiled version of EgoJoust to run the tests, although it would be nice to have a server function to do the same.
19:45:47 <david_werecat> Hmmm... even after half an hour my optimizer still hasn't found a better configuration.
19:46:54 <Taneb> Maybe you've reached the optimum
19:47:30 <david_werecat> I doubt it, the version up right now is barely optimized at all.
19:48:00 <david_werecat> So... more waiting!
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19:54:42 <ais523> hmm, egojoust is quite slow, isn't it?
19:55:06 <elliott> hackego doesn't use egojoust
19:55:11 <elliott> and egojoust is very buggy
19:55:13 <elliott> so why are you using it
19:55:21 <elliott> http://git.zem.fi/chainlance
19:55:49 <ais523> chainlance is an entirely viable option
19:56:13 <elliott> especially since it's what egobot actually uses :P
19:57:30 <tswett> Would anyone mind if I rambled inanely for a while?
19:59:17 <david_werecat> !bfjoust dreadnought http://tinypaste.com/2ae75e0f/save.php?hash=32765885219c22e699c610e7ac7d6d28
19:59:21 <EgoBot> ​Score for david_werecat_dreadnought: 0.0
19:59:31 <david_werecat> Wait, what?
20:00:04 <tswett> A part of your soul ties you to the next world, or maybe to the last. This world is just illusion, trying to change you.
20:00:50 <david_werecat> !bfjoust dreadnought http://tinypaste.com/d65f4df7/save.php?hash=f803e31d09c9d25051a6cff3bc4ea235
20:00:53 <EgoBot> ​Score for david_werecat_dreadnought: 66.8
20:01:28 <david_werecat> Okay, my optimizer is making it worse.
20:01:59 <david_werecat> !bfjoust dreadnought http://tinypaste.com/89f64fa2/save.php?hash=2f8298684e97f172e414d2a18789d7af
20:02:04 <EgoBot> ​Score for david_werecat_dreadnought: 70.9
20:02:14 <MSleep> /anick MSleep
20:02:17 <MSleep> doof
20:02:24 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude.
20:02:39 <tswett> What is the "next world"? Presumably it's where you go when you die, or something like that. Does everyone go to the same "next world", or are there different ones for different people?
20:03:16 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
20:03:57 <quintopia> tswett: not every goes to the next world, but you certainly cant get there if you die
20:04:14 <quintopia> you have to beat world 1 to get to world 2
20:04:31 <quintopia> you might can skip some worlds if you find a warp room
20:04:41 <quintopia> but if you die its game over
20:04:53 <tswett> Oh, of course.
20:05:28 <tswett> Are all of the worlds just illusion, or only some of them?
20:05:40 <Taneb> quintopia, you start with free lives, though, and get another live every hundred coins or when you eat a special mushroom
20:05:54 <Taneb> *three
20:05:56 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
20:07:42 <quintopia> Taneb: you're not reallydead until all lives are gone. just set back a bit. the karma cycle ofrebirth goes on.
20:23:52 <Taneb> True, hmm
20:24:18 <ais523> so, the whole UEFI thing is causing a row again
20:24:56 <ais523> because although on x86 (and not ARM) the bootloaders are meant to be open to new user-specified keys, you have to muck around in the BIOS to enable them
20:25:08 <ais523> so Microsoft offered to sign Fedora's bootloader with Microsoft's key
20:25:13 <ais523> and there's a huge row about whether Fedora are selling out or not
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20:26:09 <ais523> any opinons here? it's a pretty interesting mess
20:26:22 <kmc> i'm starting to think the openness of the PC platform is a historical accident which will not be repated
20:26:35 <Sgeo__> kmc, well, now I'm depressed
20:27:17 <elliott> hi
20:27:26 <ais523> hi elliott
20:27:34 <ais523> what's your opinion on the UEFI thing?
20:27:57 <elliott> what about it
20:28:33 <ais523> <ais523> so Microsoft offered to sign Fedora's bootloader with Microsoft's key
20:29:29 <ais523> (not using pronouns because nobody would parse it correctly if I did)
20:30:00 <elliott> right, I read the blog post thing
20:30:05 <elliott> it's not really "offer"
20:30:11 <elliott> they sell it
20:30:14 <elliott> afaict
20:30:32 <ais523> no, Fedora had to pay $99 (once), but to Verisign not Microsoft
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20:32:57 <ais523> hmm, I actually think it's Microsoft genuinely trying to help
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20:33:51 <kmc> at least we can take comfort in the fact that computer security is terrible
20:34:03 <kmc> and so even in the future when it's necessary to root your own laptop, it will be possible to do so
20:34:45 <kmc> i mean this "secure boot" thing is pretty silly; are they really going to remove every feature and bug in the Linux kernel which allows root to execute code as ring0?
20:36:51 <pikhq_> ais523: Yes, it's just pretty damned shitty.
20:38:24 <pikhq_> It doesn't improve security notably, it just makes things fairly inconvenient.
20:38:58 <pikhq_> (if an attacker is at the point where they could mess with the bootloader, they already own your box.)
20:39:26 <kmc> yeah, that's the point...
20:39:38 <kmc> this is why you want the bootloader to be cryptographically signed, in theory
20:39:53 <pikhq_> Except they own the box *even without touching the bootloader*.
20:39:59 <kmc> signed against a private key which is stored in a TPM chip or such
20:40:04 <kmc> pikhq_: how so
20:40:09 <pikhq_> libc is suspect.
20:40:19 <kmc> presumably you have an encrypted disk
20:40:22 <kmc> if you care about this stuff
20:40:41 <pikhq_> Okay, true, then you're good if it's someone with physical access to your box.
20:40:45 <kmc> these discussions always devolve into "well, they *COULD* break out an ion deposition cannon and screw with the transistors on your CPU"
20:40:55 <nortti_> ELKS is pretty awesome. It also shows how much bloat new apps have. I got a out of memory error when trying to start vi because I tried to start it under ash that was running on top of sash instead of directly from sash
20:40:56 <kmc> missing the point that security is about relative threat and countermeasure costs
20:40:59 <kmc> and there are no absolutes
20:41:13 <pikhq_> If it's a remote attacker, yeah, your OS install is utterly suspect, even without the ability to mess with the bootloader.
20:41:20 <kmc> nortti_: nobody cares that vim uses 2 megs of ram instead of 1
20:41:22 <kmc> go back to 1985
20:42:01 <pikhq_> kmc: 'Scuse me, I'm offended that zlib has crc32 in 100k instead of 100 bytes.
20:42:16 <kmc> yes all this "bloated" software, so horrible that we're optimizing for the very expensive human time instead of very cheap computer resources
20:42:37 <pikhq_> (note that to get 100k crc32 you have to pessimize human time as well as computer resources)
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20:42:53 <nortti_> kmc: I meant vi. Vim wouldn't even start (64kB limit for .text)
20:43:05 <kmc> pikhq_: that sounds like actually shit code
20:43:19 <kmc> whereas the usual whining about "bloat" is about fine code which omg doesn't use every cycle to maximum efficiency!!!
20:43:31 <pikhq_> kmc: Yes. When I talk about "bloated code" I mostly refer to stuff that is *actually a large quantity of code*.
20:43:46 <pikhq_> Because 99% of the time the metric that matters is how much code there is for humans to deal with.
20:43:56 <kmc> ok, well that's not what nortti_ was talking about
20:44:09 <pikhq_> Though he'd probably have better luck with smaller human code size.
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20:44:56 <pikhq_> nortti_: Which vi are you using?
20:45:35 <nortti_> pikhq_: you meant on ELKS? I am not completely sure
20:45:54 <pikhq_> (not that ELKS is anything but a curiosity at this point)
20:46:03 <ais523> oh well, I just submitted the story to Slashdot, mostly because I'm really interested in the resulting comments
20:46:04 <nortti_> on slitaz I use busybox vi
20:46:06 <kmc> i mean programming with restricted resources is a fun challenge
20:46:11 <kmc> and is sometimes required for embedded systems
20:46:44 <pikhq_> Though we're in a weird land where some embedded systems beat out 10 year old workstations.
20:47:15 <nortti_> ais523: that UEFI secure boit story?
20:47:21 <pikhq_> Though, I'm not sure you can call "ARM in everything" "embedded" anymore.
20:47:21 <ais523> nortti_: yes
20:47:54 <ais523> I had a 50% success rate for Slashdot submissions before this one
20:47:55 <kmc> but it's dumb when programmers get all smug and serious about a desktop app using 1 MB of RAM, which is $0.005 of RAM at current prices
20:47:58 <ais523> let's see if it gets accepted or rejected
20:48:06 <kmc> anyway I've made this point enough times
20:48:14 <kmc> nortti_ seems oblivious or maybe I'm just misunderstanding their motivations
20:48:28 <fizzie> You mean this http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/05/31/190217/red-hat-will-pay-microsoft-to-get-past-uefi-restrictions story?
20:48:48 <nortti_> pikhq_: yeah. Also the feeling when you realize that the speed of the phone your friend whines about is actually faster than your computer's
20:48:56 <pikhq_> kmc: 1MiB of RAM? Heck, I might use that as a buffer.
20:49:32 <pikhq_> (okay, okay, only if that's actually sane.)
20:49:57 <ais523> fizzie: I looked for it, pity the search is still bad
20:50:06 <ais523> oh well, at least it /still/ has a 50% chance of being accepted :)
20:50:13 <fizzie> I used this thing called Google.
20:50:14 <nortti_> I try to limit my programs to 64kB code+64kB stack&heap
20:50:31 <pikhq_> nortti_: You're a bit nuts.
20:50:55 <kmc> ==
20:51:19 <nortti_> pikhq_: yes I am
20:51:54 <pikhq_> nortti_: More-so given that *even considering 8086's limitations* that sucker has no business being restricted to a single real mode segment per code, stack, heap.
20:52:28 <pikhq_> Sure, the addressing gets really ridiculous, but eh.
20:53:29 <ais523> my own prediction is that someone will find a way to jailbreak the UEFI protection pretty quickly
20:53:38 <ais523> perhaps using bugs in Microsoft's bootloader
20:54:13 <nortti_> well I want my code to run on all of my *nix systems including MINIX 1. Now I'll just hope I don't install lunix on my c64
20:55:16 <nortti_> pikhq_: it is more of a limitation in bcc
20:55:26 <nortti_> +under ELKS
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20:59:41 <Phantom__Hoover> OK um
21:00:19 <Phantom__Hoover> what the fuck is the point in a screen lock that includes a screensaver that is literally a transparent window moving around the screen
21:00:48 <ais523> Phantom__Hoover: it doesn't stop people looking at your screen, but it does stop them giving commands to it
21:02:01 <Phantom__Hoover> I... would quite like it if they can't look at my screen, and I'm especially unhappy that it's not made clear that it can randomly decide to stop doing that.
21:04:40 -!- Patashu has joined.
21:05:02 <ais523> oh, I thought it was an option, rather than something that happens randomly
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21:12:45 <zzo38> Are you sure, you cannot turn off those things?
21:12:59 <zzo38> If it include some screensaver, can you add/remove some?
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21:45:56 <elliott> Patashu: help
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22:07:24 <monqy> @messages?
22:07:24 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 10 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
22:07:32 <monqy> oh dear
22:08:14 <elliott> hi monqy
22:08:16 <elliott> i died a few times
22:08:43 <monqy> did you permadie
22:08:45 <elliott> no
22:08:48 <elliott> the ogak is playing right now
22:08:55 <elliott> it's had "quality elliptic help"
22:09:00 <elliott> it's only died like 8 times so far anyway
22:09:07 <elliott> i also did orc on another one
22:09:07 <elliott> and
22:09:11 <elliott> have to do lair on another one but it's almost dead
22:09:17 <elliott> i gave more info in lambdabot and henzell messages :P
22:09:42 <elliott> monqy: also you will be pleased to know:
22:09:45 <elliott> the ogak has 5 gscs or so
22:09:51 <elliott> "ready for a tukima's party"
22:10:19 <monqy> yaey
22:11:50 <elliott> monqy: are you watching
22:11:55 <elliott> it;s DISCOBRADECAPELLO on cao
22:12:37 <monqy> yes
22:12:47 <elliott> monqy: do you have any suggestions
22:12:54 <elliott> also i followed syraine's ogak guide it went "great"
22:13:10 <elliott> monqy: the guide is
22:13:18 <elliott> train m&f and fighting, focus m&f, m&f until 12, fighting until 8, then fighting -> invocations
22:13:19 <elliott> except
22:13:21 <elliott> i died repeatedly
22:13:26 <elliott> so i stopped following it because it's terrible
22:13:28 <elliott> and just trained invo instead
22:13:30 <elliott> and syraine was really sad
22:14:01 <elliott> monqy: additionally, help
22:14:36 <monqy> team CHAOSTALK spreadsheet. fewn. syraine. mission 1. Comments: F_)ck FeWn
22:15:07 <elliott> yes
22:15:12 <elliott> i watched it
22:15:12 <elliott> it was
22:15:14 <elliott> beautiful
22:15:46 <elliott> monqy: btw i was going to disto the gsc
22:15:48 <elliott> but tukima's :(
22:16:14 <monqy> yeah that's the only problem with tukimas ogak
22:16:44 <monqy> could disto it and just unwield once tukimas. worst case we get glowed to hell
22:16:44 <elliott> monqy: apart from having to train to 27 hexes, apparently
22:16:52 <monqy> yeah that's the worst part
22:16:54 <elliott> monqy: have you forgotten: abyss
22:17:08 <elliott> monqy: btw i fell down a shaft from like D:7 to D:11
22:17:09 <elliott> it was "gr8"
22:17:15 <monqy> elliott: lugonu, elliott
22:17:20 <elliott> oh right
22:17:25 <elliott> lugonu is so great!!!
22:17:27 <elliott> my favourite god
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22:30:04 <elliott> monqy: the pan lords names were created in lowercase
22:30:12 <elliott> "ha" -judge of username competition
23:04:33 <Phantom___Hoover> @ping
23:04:34 <lambdabot> pong
23:07:22 <elliott> monqy: how is the vpar going
23:10:43 <elliott> monqy: btw feel free to put rc stuff on the ogak
23:10:49 <elliott> as long as it doesn't end up looking like squarelos
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23:27:41 <david_werecat> elliott: Thanks for letting me know about gearlance. It's working much better.
23:27:49 <elliott> \o/
23:27:49 <myndzi> |
23:27:49 <myndzi> /<
23:27:57 <elliott> Does the wiki still talk about egojoust?
23:28:01 <elliott> It should probably be updated.
23:28:13 <zzo38> How to do gamma correction by integer arithmetic?
23:28:24 <ais523> any of the lances or juiced are reasonable for running tests
23:28:32 <ais523> (I use juiced because I wrote it and it has some nifty features for testing)
23:28:56 <elliott> i'll still finish lance some day
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23:29:53 <david_werecat> Fun fact: The current configuration of dreadnought is nearly optimal, even though I barely optimized it.
23:30:23 <zzo38> How to gamma/contrast/brightness table by integer arithmetic?
23:31:13 <ais523> david_werecat: can't think of any way to beat counterpoke without losing a huge amount of ground to everything else?
23:31:42 <david_werecat> ais523: Indeed.
23:31:50 <ais523> so, I've come to the conclusion that the main difference between counterpoke and things like ffspg is that it sets the decoys much nearer the square it pokes
23:32:17 <ais523> which means that the opponent has to be leaving evidence of their motion for it to work well
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23:32:45 <david_werecat> Actually, I have a test version that doesn't leave a trail.
23:33:00 <david_werecat> It beats counterpoke, but only makes 3rd place.
23:33:17 <zzo38> I realized I do have C documentation in my computer, in Cygwin, so I will use that
23:33:31 <david_werecat> Counterpoke still does well, even without a trail, though.
23:33:32 <ais523> not leaving a trail leaves you vulnerable to regular rushes, unless you set large decoys
23:33:38 <zzo38> (It doesn't answer the gamma/contrast/brightness question, though)
23:33:44 <ais523> and indeed, the second half is optimized against trail-free programs
23:33:53 <ais523> on the basis that it wouldn't even be reached for trailing programs
23:36:22 <david_werecat> It's strange that counterpoke is so low on the list.
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23:37:46 <ais523> indeed
23:38:00 <ais523> right next to insidious, which is a much more hopeless strategy
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23:39:04 <Gregor> Beaten out by ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys ;)
23:42:22 <david_werecat> !bfjoust dreadnought http://tinypaste.com/65b19928/save.php?hash=7cc9e6cd41212521c6ab0d41cf88767e
23:42:26 <EgoBot> ​Score for david_werecat_dreadnought: 71.2
23:42:58 <david_werecat> Gained .3 points, still losing to counterpoke.
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23:44:07 <elliott> ais523: so do you still think bf joust is broken?
23:48:02 <ais523> elliott: it's not as healthy as it could be
23:50:02 <oerjan> it's not dead it's just resting
23:53:26 <ais523> haha, counterpoke falls off the tape against anticipation
23:53:37 <ais523> looks like counter-shudder isn't so useless after all :)
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