←2016-08-13 2016-08-14 2016-08-15→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:05:55 -!- carado has joined.
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00:56:07 <quintopia> helloerjan
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00:57:51 <boily> @metar CYUL
00:57:51 <lambdabot> CYUL 132342Z 04010G30KT 280V060 4SM R06L/3000VP6000FT/D R06R/3500VP6000FT/D RA BR FEW005 BKN024 OVC040 20/19 A2975 RMK SF2SC5NS1 PRESFR SLP076 DENSITY ALT 800FT
00:58:23 <quintopia> coily!
00:58:45 <quintopia> what to do with a saturday night?
00:58:50 <oerjan> hellopia. hellonolongerboilyng.
00:59:08 <fizzie> @metar KBOS
00:59:09 <lambdabot> KBOS 132354Z 06008KT 7SM OVC007 21/19 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP129 60000 T02060189 10228 20200 55004
00:59:16 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
00:59:16 <lambdabot> ENVA 132350Z 31005KT 9999 FEW026 SCT052 10/07 Q1011 RMK WIND 670FT 28011KT
00:59:17 <fizzie> It was surprisingly humane today.
00:59:28 <oerjan> @messages-
00:59:28 <lambdabot> gamemanj said 1h 45m 17s ago: Yes, overthinking is something I am proud of.
00:59:33 <quintopia> oerjan: you can't confirm that. it could be boiling rain
00:59:47 <oerjan> quintopia: i looked at the temperature hth
01:00:02 <gamemanj> oerjan: found you
01:00:06 <gamemanj> Boo!
01:00:18 * gamemanj was hoping to scare oerjan
01:00:21 <quintopia> oerjan: the thermometer could be inside a box, protected from the boiling water?
01:00:46 <quintopia> we'll have to check again in a few minutes to be sure
01:01:52 <oerjan> quintopia: i think you're confusing this with the alderaan forecast hth
01:02:12 <boily> hellørjan! nolongerboily?
01:02:38 <boily> gamellomanj. did you know that oerjan is unscarable hth
01:02:41 <oerjan> boily_ng_ hth
01:02:50 <boily> boilyng???
01:02:59 <oerjan> um is unscarable the same as unscareable
01:03:03 <gamemanj> boily-ng. A more refined boily for a better age.
01:03:05 <boily> quinthellopia! eating is a good activity.
01:03:27 <gamemanj> (Brought to you by the developers of aircrack-ng, presumably.)
01:04:01 <quintopia> boily: whats for supper?
01:04:05 * boily munches on edible stuff. *munch* *munch* *munch*
01:04:12 <gamemanj> "edible stuff"
01:04:23 <gamemanj> Is this stuff green biscuits?
01:04:38 <boily> leftovers from lunch. rice, beef, tofu and zucchini, bean sprouts and carrots.
01:04:43 <quintopia> :O
01:04:51 <boily> no, the only green part is zucchinal hth
01:05:04 <quintopia> i had a bag of hot wings flavored pretzels. so...yeah
01:05:08 <quintopia> now what?
01:05:20 * oerjan is neither unscareable nor unscarable, but if you have to test either i prefer the former hth hth
01:05:21 <boily> still eating ^^
01:05:27 <oerjan> oops
01:05:53 <oerjan> also wiktionary doesn't think scarable exists.
01:05:58 <quintopia> unscarable doesn't sound like a real word
01:06:05 <quintopia> itym unscarrable
01:06:24 <boily> unscrabble.
01:06:28 <quintopia> unscorable
01:07:10 <quintopia> boily: that's it! that's the ticket! but i probably would pwn you at english scrabble, and you'd wipe the floor with me in french
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01:07:38 <oerjan> i also fail to find any real uses of "scarable" because they're swamped by either dictionary SEO or typos
01:07:57 <oerjan> (or perhaps no one's ever used it)
01:08:19 <quintopia> it's an #esoteric hapax legemenon!
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01:08:36 <fizzie> oerjan: An un-scarab.
01:09:05 <oerjan> quintopia: oh, i guess the real word would be spelt unscarrable. checking...
01:09:22 <gamemanj> Unscrabble.
01:09:40 <gamemanj> It's like scrabble, but you have to make anything that isn't a word in any language in the universe.
01:09:51 <gamemanj> Which makes it excessively difficult.
01:10:14 <oerjan> scarrable gives at least one genuine hit, although wiktionary still doesn't know it.
01:10:57 <oerjan> technically the hit was "un-scarrable"
01:11:09 <quintopia> nah it's easy. you just invent an alphabet on the spot, assign to them sounds that are extremely difficult to make (e.g. the sound of a baby eating a puppy as they are torn about by tidal forces inside a black hole), and string them together randomly
01:13:25 <gamemanj> quintopia: You also have to map these to English letters for reasons which should hopefully be obvious if you've ever seen a Scrabble set.
01:14:34 <quintopia> gamemanj: whoever said unscrabble involved a scrabble set?
01:14:40 <oerjan> <quintopia> itym unscarrable <-- damn i did it again.
01:14:44 <gamemanj> quintopia: I guess nobody.
01:14:53 <zzo38> What you need is a chess set.
01:15:00 <gamemanj> ...
01:15:16 <oerjan> <quintopia> boily: that's it! that's the ticket! but i probably would pwn you at english scrabble, and you'd wipe the floor with me in french <-- norwegian hth
01:15:54 <oerjan> also, *legomenon.
01:16:02 <quintopia> oerjan: both of us cheating with a dictionary takes all the fun out of it
01:16:23 * oerjan only knows that word because of narbonic.
01:16:45 <zzo38> When I play Scrabble I always do both player will use the Scrabble dictionary
01:17:00 * quintopia .oO(it seems to take oerjan about 10 seconds per line to logread)
01:17:07 <zzo38> Time limits could help too though
01:17:08 <moon_> i made a nodejs sandbox for my bot, and its pretty strong, i was wondering if you guys would help me find some exploits so i can try to patch them
01:17:20 * gamemanj .oO( speech bubbles! cool! )
01:17:59 <quintopia> that was a thought bubble. we don't need speech bubbles since we aren't being drawn into boxes on the chat, so every other text is assumed to be speech
01:18:36 * oerjan thinks zzo38 could design a chess game isomorphic to scrabble. probably.
01:19:29 <quintopia> if anyone could...
01:19:35 <oerjan> quintopia: my backscroll reading may not always be chronological hth
01:19:52 <quintopia> oerjan: you seem to comment on it in chronological order tho
01:20:08 <oerjan> MAYBE
01:20:56 <oerjan> what i mean is that sometimes, i only go back because i realize i had been skipping stuff.
01:21:20 <zzo38> moon_: You would have to be careful if you want to make a Node.js sandbox properly secure. One thing to do is to ensure that the prototype of the sandbox object is null, and don't put any other objects from the outside into the sandbox.
01:21:55 <zzo38> (But this can make it difficult to do anything meaningful, so you figure it out.....)
01:22:07 * oerjan wonders if anyone's ever made an irc client that uses speech bubbles
01:22:31 <olsner> microsoft has
01:22:32 <zzo38> oerjan: I think Microsoft Comic Chat might? I don't know though
01:22:55 -!- moon_ has quit (Quit: See ya later, [INSERT_NAME_HERE]).
01:23:04 <quintopia> yep looks like it
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01:23:22 <olsner> it crashes with common IRC servers (e.g. freenode), but puckipedia has a proxy to work around it
01:24:18 <oerjan> fancy
01:25:23 <zzo38> I don't know if possibly the V8 debugging interface might be usable for making a Node.js sandbox
01:25:55 <zzo38> Writing an extension in C++ might also help, if you know how to do that
01:30:33 <zzo38> One thing I don't know if it works, because I have not tried, is to create function outside of the sandbox, and then a function inside the sandbox wraps it (perhaps create a function that takes a function and returns a function, and call it) and passes only primitives between the inside and outside.
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01:33:02 <zzo38> Running sandboxed scripts in a separate process is also something that has been suggested, so you can also try that.
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01:47:38 <quintopia> boily is still camped in here eh
01:48:07 * gamemanj gives boily a tent
01:53:41 * boily wraps himself in the tent
02:01:13 <oerjan> i don't think that was gamemanj's intent
02:01:58 <gamemanj> oerjan: I don't mind.
02:02:21 <boily> off to night coma!
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02:03:26 <gamemanj> boily and his chickens
02:07:29 <quintopia> this one was particularly attractive
02:07:53 * oerjan looks at quintopia suspiciously
02:08:16 * gamemanj also looks at quintopia suspiciously
02:08:37 <gamemanj> (*writes "if oerjan looks at someone suspiciously, there's usually a reason." into book*)
02:08:48 <oerjan> truthy
02:09:32 <gamemanj> maybe quintopia was referring to night coma
02:09:58 <oerjan> dubious hth
02:11:04 <gamemanj> well, there's an obvious solution to that
02:11:21 <gamemanj> quintopia: define "this one" in your message, "this one was particularly attractive"
02:12:42 -!- oerjan has set topic: The supercogitating channel | The interdisciplinary strange loop of Esoteric Programming Language Design and Deployment | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
02:15:06 <quintopia> unattractive chickens don't wear garterbelts hth
02:18:33 * gamemanj underlines the line about oerjan's suspicions usually being correct
02:18:56 * gamemanj then adds an additional note in the margin: "c.KTW/SJ-night"
02:21:37 * oerjan looks at gamemanj's note suspiciously
02:27:46 <quintopia> what's the fastest way to find the smallest power of 2 greater than x?
02:29:22 <gamemanj> Depends what you're implementing it in.
02:29:23 <quintopia> i mean, would it be faster to try right shift it until i get zero? or it with a left-shifted 1 til zero? god help if its actually do a log?
02:29:36 <quintopia> let's say cython
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02:29:47 <gamemanj> A shift will do it. If it does it fast, is another thing entirely.
02:29:59 <gamemanj> Technically the "fastest" implementation would be dependent on value size.
02:30:23 <gamemanj> If you had 256 values, you may - or may not - find that an array is faster than doing the calculations.
02:30:24 <quintopia> oh apparently python has a .bit_length()
02:30:25 <quintopia> neat
02:30:51 <oerjan> didn't we already establish on a previous occasion that processors have specific instructions for this hth
02:31:21 <gamemanj> oerjan: I don't know why, it's a rare - and not that slow - operation...
02:31:24 <quintopia> and you didn't invite me????
02:32:07 <oerjan> gamemanj: well it may be useful in code that needs to be particularly fast
02:32:22 <gamemanj> Yes, but why would someone need that operation?
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02:32:42 <oerjan> gamemanj: to implement bigints, say
02:33:00 <zzo38> Please look at information relating to TAVERN VM and tell me if it is any good and other comment such as if there is any mistake or unclear. Do you think that 32K cells (each cell stores a signed 16-bit number) is sufficient for the program code for a text adventure game and other arbitrary read-only data? (RAM, vocabulary, and most text, would be stored in separate address spaces)
02:33:00 <gamemanj> Potentially. On the other hand, how do you feed in the number to this operation?
02:33:04 <oerjan> you want to know what's the first bit you need to start working at
02:33:40 <gamemanj> zzo38: Worst case scenario, you can cheat the system, especially if the program code can read from text/vocab memory.
02:33:54 <gamemanj> zzo38: Like, write a brainfuck interpreter in program memory,
02:34:15 <gamemanj> zzo38: then put your *actual program* into a different address space.
02:34:52 <zzo38> Program code cannot read anything from text or vocab memory; it can read and write RAM, although RAM is also limited to 32K cells.
02:36:36 <zzo38> Adding an extension that would act like Z-machine's DIROUT 3 would allow reading from text memory, although another possible extension would just to allow reading text memory directly, which would be simpler and faster.
02:37:26 <zzo38> (Text memory is also limited to 32K cells, although the text is packed, and the text memory is also bankswitched, so you can store a lot of data in there.)
02:39:09 <zzo38> Adding a feature code and instruction opcode for TXT@ would allow to read the text memory; we can add this idea into the bug tracker or wiki.
02:39:24 <quintopia> how does text packing work? my best guess was always just "limiting text to a narrow range of ascii so that some bits can be discarded from each character"
02:40:02 <zzo38> You can look at the documentation if you want to know its working.
02:41:56 <zzo38> Vocabulary packing does limit text to a narrow range of ASCII though; the VOCAB.BIN lump maps vocabulary words to signed 16-bit numbers (any word not listed has a value of zero).
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03:13:04 <hppavilion[1]> Hm...
03:24:05 <hppavilion[1]> Do any known people have a finite Erdos-Shusaku-Morley-Bacon number?
03:24:38 <oerjan> what are shusaku and morley again
03:24:48 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Go and Chess
03:25:39 <hppavilion[1]> (Hm, would the existence of a Go-playing AI that plays against Shusaku make anyone able to have a Shusaku number of 1?)
03:27:32 <oerjan> how would you do that when he's been dead over a century twh
03:29:01 <oerjan> quintopia: is this another one of those voight-kampff test questions
03:29:36 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: See, I was afraid someone would say that
03:29:41 <oerjan> heh
03:30:17 <hppavilion[1]> `? twh
03:30:37 <HackEgo> twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.
03:30:42 <hppavilion[1]> `tomfoolery twh
03:30:44 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
03:32:12 <oerjan> `addquote <int-e> I couldn't help thinking that maybe if one considers the ramifications in full detail it will turn out that overthinking is often not helpful and therefore, not something to be proud of.
03:32:17 <HackEgo> 1286) <int-e> I couldn't help thinking that maybe if one considers the ramifications in full detail it will turn out that overthinking is often not helpful and therefore, not something to be proud of.
03:37:05 <oerjan> @ask myname <myname> there is a petition in germany to give an equal amount of male and female names to potatoes ... <-- does that include spelling it as Kartoffel/innen twh
03:37:05 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
03:37:57 <gamemanj> nothing wrong with overthinking
03:38:27 <oerjan> `? gamemanj
03:38:31 <HackEgo> gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here.
03:38:52 <oerjan> `learn_append gamemanj He will overthink everything except whether overthinking is wrong.
03:38:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'gamemanj': gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here. He will overthink everything except whether overthinking is wrong.
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03:39:37 <oerjan> `slwd gamemanj sb exb, exb
03:39:39 <HackEgo> usage: sled file//script
03:39:45 <oerjan> `slwd gamemanj//sb exb, exb
03:39:50 <HackEgo> wisdom/gamemanj//gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here. He will overthink everything, except whether overthinking is wrong.
03:40:01 <gamemanj> ...go on, explain what you are doing
03:40:13 <oerjan> i am amending your wisdom entry hth
03:40:42 <gamemanj> That's an interesting method of adding one comma...
03:42:09 <oerjan> well the alternative would be copy/pasting
03:42:28 <gamemanj> I'm kind of wondering how "sb exb, exb" works
03:42:44 <gamemanj> and if it's actually an esoteric language, like a cyclic tag system or something
03:43:02 <oerjan> the trick is that sed's s command allows almost any delimiter character, in this case b
03:43:28 <gamemanj> ah
03:43:36 * gamemanj gets out his TODO list
03:44:08 * gamemanj writes "Send patch to maxpowa/Inumuta so that it interprets everything beginning with 's' as a replacement. This, of course, is simply a side effect of proper interpretation."
03:44:22 <oerjan> wat.
03:44:48 <orin> My font now has playing cards!
03:44:50 <orin> 🂠🂡🂢🂣🂤🂥🂦🂧🂨🂩🂪🂫🂬🂭🂮🂱🂲🂳🂴🂵🂶🂷🂸🂹🂺🂻🂼🂽🂾
03:44:54 <orin> 🃁🃂🃃🃄🃅🃆🃇🃈🃉🃊🃋🃌🃍🃎🃏🃑🃒🃓🃔🃕🃖🃗🃘🃙🃚🃛🃜🃝🃞🃟
03:45:00 <gamemanj> Yay!!!!
03:45:11 <gamemanj> 🃑
03:45:15 <gamemanj> which card is this
03:45:21 <orin> ace of clubs
03:45:37 <gamemanj> ...I'm not good with cards.
03:45:45 <gamemanj> This was what I meant to copy: 🂡
03:46:13 <oerjan> gamemanj: hm i guess i forgot to ask whether you want to be assumed male, but since you didn't protest i assume that's all right.
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03:47:11 * oerjan might be overthinking that.
03:47:33 <gamemanj> oerjan: I try to catch myself when I make assumptions too (though if someone else uses a gender pronoun in reference to someone, I'll base any further communications on that)
03:47:44 <orin> I also added a bunch of those crazy Shift-JIS characters
03:48:43 <orin> ㋌㋍㋎㋏㎙㎚㎛㎜㎝㎞㎟
03:48:43 <orin> ㎠㎡㎢㎣㎤㎥㎦㎧㎨㎩㎪㎫㎬㎭㎮㎯㎰㎱㎲㎳㎴㎵㎶㎷㎸㎹㎺㎻㎼㎽㎾㎿
03:48:46 <orin> ㏀㏁㏂㏃㏄㏅㏆㏇㏈㏉㏊㏋㏌㏍㏎㏏㏐㏑㏒㏓㏔㏕㏖㏗㏘㏙㏚㏛㏜㏝
03:49:25 <zzo38> I thought of a idea of new kind of format of Magic: the Gathering cards. Select a block and play block constructed, but before the game starts add a Rochester draft and then sealed, the draft/sealed consisting entirely of cards whioch are not legal in the constructed block being played (banned cards may be included in the draft/sealed).
03:50:35 <zzo38> Your constructed deck may include a 15-card sideboard. Whatever your constructed deck size is (not counting sideboard) is your minimum deck size (which may be reduced by conspiracies), and whatever your constructed sideboard includes is your minimum sideboard size.
03:51:07 * oerjan suddenly notices the "man" in gamemanj's nick
03:51:52 <zzo38> Play is then scored per-duel ante, with each card legal in the block worth 2 points, and other cards worth 1 point each, and the game worth 1 point.
03:52:33 <zzo38> Do you like this?
03:53:38 <orin> Ok, I just noticed that I drew ㎱ as rs instead of ns. I have no idea how that happened
03:54:43 <zzo38> Conspiracies that are placed into the command zone at the beginning of the game do not count toward your minimum sideboard size.
03:55:07 <gamemanj> orin: Does your font editor allow out of bounds drawing?
03:55:13 <orin> yes
03:55:21 <gamemanj> Then it is clear.
03:55:47 <orin> and somtimes I have stray pixels in a character
03:56:27 <orin> I forgot to finish my program that catches stray pixels
03:57:10 <zzo38> You can add additional conventional basic lands into your deck when creating it after draft/sealed or when altering the deck by exchanging cards with sideboard, but these extra lands will be lost if they are ever placed into the sideboard.
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03:57:22 <orin> > ㏒(2)
03:57:23 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input ‘㏒’
03:58:17 <orin> > let ㏒=log in ㏒(2)
03:58:18 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error in let binding: missing required 'in'
03:58:48 <orin> > let ㏒=log; in ㏒(2)
03:58:50 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error in let binding: missing required 'in'
03:59:26 <orin> is it just me or is this let not the same as lisp let
04:00:30 -!- Jafet has joined.
04:00:51 <zzo38> I don't know how is lisp let
04:01:24 <gamemanj> > "㏒" == "log"
04:01:25 <lambdabot> False
04:01:34 <gamemanj> That makes it quite clear...
04:02:28 <orin> > let ㏒ = log in ㏒(2)
04:02:30 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error in let binding: missing required 'in'
04:03:31 <orin> gamemanj: in lisp you can make a temporary variable with the let function. but haskell doesn't seem to work like that
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04:04:55 <orin> > let ㏒ = 1 in ㏒
04:04:56 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error in let binding: missing required 'in'
04:05:10 <orin> > let x = 1 in x
04:05:12 <lambdabot> 1
04:05:26 <orin> que?
04:06:09 <orin> > let ㄋ = 1 in ㄋ
04:06:11 <lambdabot> 1
04:06:14 <Jafet> > let a ㏒ b = log a / log b in (㏒2) 4
04:06:16 <lambdabot> 2.0
04:06:43 <orin> Jafet: I see, it thinks ㏒ is a symbol?
04:06:52 <orin> weird
04:06:52 <Jafet> > generalCategory '㏒'
04:06:54 <lambdabot> OtherSymbol
04:07:03 <Jafet> `unicode ㏒
04:07:10 <HackEgo> U+33D2 SQUARE LOG \ UTF-8: e3 8f 92 UTF-16BE: 33d2 Decimal: &#13266; \ ㏒ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <square> 006C 006F 0067
04:07:50 <Jafet> does that grow from square trees?
04:08:39 <orin> ㏊㏊㏊
04:08:43 <gamemanj> yes, but they cost a lot of money to buy
04:09:05 <orin>
04:09:08 <gamemanj> £4,480... the price started going up after Minecraft became popular
04:09:35 <gamemanj> (Note: My last two messages may have been... complete and obvious lies.)
04:10:53 <orin> ⛉⛊⛋⛌
04:11:50 <oerjan> `unicode ㏒
04:12:01 <HackEgo> U+0020 SPACE \ UTF-8: 20 UTF-16BE: 0020 Decimal: &#32; \ \ Category: Zs (Separator, Space) \ Bidi: WS (Whitespace) \ \ U+33D2 SQUARE LOG \ UTF-8: e3 8f 92 UTF-16BE: 33d2 Decimal: &#13266; \ ㏒ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <square> 006C 006F 0067
04:12:40 <FreeFull> That symbol is a pain to write
04:12:58 <orin>
04:13:55 <orin>
04:14:48 <orin> ㎜㋌
04:15:07 <orin> millimetres of mercury
04:15:19 <orin> weird unit
04:15:59 <orin> as for why the japanese wanted SI units to fit into a kanji space... I have no goddamn clue
04:16:42 <oerjan> orin: the ghc compiler defers to the unicode standard for categorizing non-ascii characters. which left a few rare usages breaking when the unicode standard changed how it treats ... superscript numbers, i think it was.
04:16:58 <pikhq> So you can approximate Japanese typesetting rules with little more than half and full width characters.
04:17:05 <FreeFull> > let 𐌹𐌾𐌶 x = log x in 𐌹𐌾𐌶 10
04:17:06 <lambdabot> 2.302585092994046
04:17:52 <oerjan> > generalCategory '²'
04:17:54 <lambdabot> OtherNumber
04:17:59 <orin> FreeFull: wow you used some characters that aren't in my font! wow!
04:18:13 <pikhq> Namely, that an SI unit fits 1 kanji cell, especially when doing vertical writing.
04:18:24 <oerjan> hm did they fix that for 8.0
04:18:36 <FreeFull> orin: Gothic
04:18:52 <oerjan> > let x² = 4 in x²
04:18:54 <lambdabot> 4
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04:20:12 <FreeFull> > let a ▼ b = log a / log b in (▼ 10) 100
04:20:14 <lambdabot> 2.0
04:20:16 <oerjan> or wait, maybe it was combining letter chars in general
04:20:25 <FreeFull> orin: Is this one in your font?
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04:20:44 <orin> yup, a downward triangle
04:22:03 <orin> pikhq: I see, for vertical writing
04:22:34 <orin> it would by annoying to have si units be sideways within a vertical text
04:22:56 <orin> (it's already annoying when it happens with names)
04:22:59 <oerjan> ^ord ́
04:22:59 <fungot> 32 204 129
04:23:05 <oerjan> `ord ́
04:23:09 <HackEgo> 32 769
04:23:35 <oerjan> > generalCategory $ last " ́"
04:23:36 <lambdabot> NonSpacingMark
04:24:08 <oerjan> > var $ 'a'++drop 1 " ́"
04:24:09 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘[Char]’ with actual type ‘Char’
04:24:09 <lambdabot> In the first argument of ‘(++)’, namely ‘'a'’
04:24:09 <lambdabot> In the second argument of ‘($)’, namely ‘'a' ++ drop 1 " \769"’
04:24:13 <oerjan> oops
04:24:17 <oerjan> > var $ 'a':drop 1 " ́"
04:24:19 <lambdabot>
04:24:31 <oerjan> > let á = 1 in á
04:24:32 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:6: lexical error at character '\769'
04:24:36 <oerjan> nope
04:24:41 <oerjan> still broken, that
04:26:11 <quintopia> oerjan: is the one about playing chess with dead men a voight-kampff question? no. is the question about text packing a voight-kampff question? definitely not. is the presentation of the concept of an attractive chicken in a garterbelt a secret voight-kampff test? definitely!
04:29:17 <oerjan> quintopia: thx tdh
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04:37:49 <orin> argh firefox is being a vixen
04:37:57 <Jafet> so, would that chicken pass the voight-kampff test?
04:38:05 <orin> not working for me the way I want
04:38:24 <zzo38> What is working wrong and what way do you want to work?
04:38:31 <gamemanj> question, what's a voight-kampff test?
04:38:48 <orin> It isn't showing my font, it's showing some other font
04:39:05 <zzo38> gamemanj: I think they will tell you in Wikipedia; I looked it up it redirect to a different file it tell you what it means.
04:40:44 <orin> specifically, It's showing some of the characters in courier new
04:41:23 <gamemanj> orin: Are these characters always in pairs?
04:41:46 <shachaf> where is coppro/scshunt twh
04:42:34 <zzo38> orin: Then use a different program to test the font
04:43:01 <zzo38> Another thing to try is to try making a SVG document and see if it will display using the proper font if you do that.
04:43:37 <orin> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm <-- this displays ok for me in chrome, but in firefox
04:44:47 <orin> http://orenwatson.be/ARGH.PNG <-- I see this
04:45:44 <gamemanj> orin: It shows up in the correct Oren-Approved International Font for me
04:46:05 <zzo38> Is there possibility to download bitmap font?
04:46:17 <orin> gamemanj: in firefox?
04:46:21 <alercah> orin: red dragon mahjong tile is broken I think
04:46:21 <gamemanj> In firefox.
04:46:30 <gamemanj> Firefox version 48.0,
04:46:31 <alercah> also joker playing card
04:46:33 <gamemanj> on Arch Linux,
04:47:06 <gamemanj> ...I don't think there are any more details to state.
04:47:35 <orin> Huh. so maybe my install of firefox is broken
04:47:45 <orin> (windows 7)
04:48:07 <gamemanj> Who knows. Maybe it just doesn't like webfonts.
04:48:32 <orin> gamemanj: well I have the same version of firefox
04:49:05 <gamemanj> I'll just go searching through about:settings.
04:49:22 <gamemanj> Oh, wait, it's "about:config".
04:50:12 <gamemanj> gfx.downloadable_fonts
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04:50:40 <gamemanj> (useful elements: .disable_cache, .enabled, .woff2.enabled)
04:51:38 <gamemanj> gfx.missing_fonts.notify is also a potentially useful setting.
04:59:05 <orin> finagling with the css...
04:59:56 <orin> reveals that chrome exhibits the same behaviour if I reorder the fonts to font-family: monospace, neoletters
05:00:29 <orin> but firefox appears to be taking the system monospace font first, even if the css says otherwise
05:00:59 <zzo38> The Infocom/runic area of UTCE still has ten unused slots, so these may be filled with additional common runes not yet included, as well as possibly the Verne runes.
05:01:28 <zzo38> orin: Did you try using the font in a SVG document instead of a HTML document and see if it works better?
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05:02:40 <zzo38> (I don't know if it works or not, but you could try it)
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05:08:12 <orin> zzo38: I think the problem is in firefox, not the font
05:08:28 <orin> It works fine in Chrome, and in this terminal session as well
05:11:41 <orin> possibly something is wrong with my css
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05:12:20 <orin> but it worked in linux
05:12:25 <orin> so wtf
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05:16:41 <quintopia> so...what's the best way to take a very long list of strings, and find the longest one that matches at position 0 of another list? I have two thoughts, but would like to hear other thoughts.
05:16:50 <quintopia> *of another string
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05:18:40 <gamemanj> quintopia: Does the very long list of strings change often, or does the other string change often?
05:19:07 <quintopia> the long list is persistent. the other string changes
05:19:31 <gamemanj> Perhaps pre-sort the long list so that the longer strings are first. That way, when a string matches, you can immediately return.
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05:20:15 <quintopia> that was one of my thoughts
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05:21:14 <quintopia> it still requires a linear search through the whole thing every time, and, for each thing in the list, a linear time string comparison
05:21:21 <quintopia> so it's definitely slow as balls
05:21:29 <quintopia> should i use a trie y/n
05:21:30 <gamemanj> You could try turning the list of strings into a tree.
05:22:14 <gamemanj> ...
05:24:17 <quintopia> or maybe i should use a DAFSA
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05:28:48 <quintopia> yeah a DAFSA is probs the way to go. But compiling one from a list will be a pain. I hope someone has done this before and published it...
05:29:09 <quintopia> oh hey nice https://pypi.python.org/pypi/DAWG/0.7.1
05:49:33 <quintopia> IT'S SO GOOD
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05:54:58 <zzo38> It might take up more memory if converted to a tree, unless some compact representation of the tree in memory is used which can also be processed easily; one idea is to allow each node to contain multiple characters instead of necessarily only one per node.
05:57:24 <zzo38> orin: Three of the Powerline characters you have are things I intended already to include in the Texas Instruments block for UTCE (the TI-92 has some of them in its character set), so I may include the others also.
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07:04:24 <almightynsx> im complacent and irritable because Im trying to live a great life for god. im seeing visions, ive astral projected and I want to learn everything on the internet. I have a plan to study all subjects online but I am stirr crazy wait on the time I can pursue this objective. I have no friends because of what i believe in and im lonelier than a kid with nothing to do
07:04:34 <almightynsx> im desperate. what should i do, INTERNET?
07:04:52 <nortti> `welcome almightynsx
07:04:59 <HackEgo> almightynsx: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
07:05:45 <hppavilion[1]> ...dafuq?
07:05:55 <hppavilion[1]> almightynsx: Have you been diagnosed with anything?
07:05:55 <almightynsx> DEFUQ YOU
07:05:58 <pikhq> almightynsx: Well, to start with there is no god.
07:05:59 <almightynsx> yes
07:06:03 <hppavilion[1]> :D
07:06:21 <almightynsx> ive been diagnosed with schizophrenia
07:06:44 <hppavilion[1]> Sounds about right
07:07:10 <zzo38> Not everyone is atheist, but if you are seeing stuff that is not there then it is hallucinations, regardless of how good or bad it is, it is still hallucinations I think.
07:07:22 <hppavilion[1]> Start with http://timecube.2enp.com/
07:08:38 <zzo38> (I consider myself as panendeist)
07:08:52 <almightynsx> but the visions i have I believe are real
07:09:35 <pikhq> I have no reason to believe they are real, and have reason to believe that your senses are fallible.
07:09:47 <zzo38> Everyone's senses can be fallible.
07:09:49 <almightynsx> being in esoteric channel you should all know the visions can be real when practiced right in the context of mysicism or new age spirituality
07:10:10 <almightynsx> ok how can i prove they are not fallible
07:10:19 <zzo38> Maybe, but it is still hallucination, and still you cannot know for sure
07:10:21 <hppavilion[1]> almightynsx: Have you tried reading time cube?
07:10:33 <pikhq> You can't, because I can demonstrate human senses are fallible.
07:10:38 <hppavilion[1]> That's just the thing; the fallibility of the senses is unfalsifiable
07:10:38 <almightynsx> no seems boring
07:10:39 <zzo38> almightynsx: You can't; the best way is scientific method if possible, but even that is not perfect; only mathematics is perfect.
07:10:41 <pikhq> This is a channel for esoteric programming languages, not for esotericism.
07:11:02 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Well, proving they're infallible is unfalsifiable. Proving they're fallible is trivial. :)
07:11:14 <almightynsx> oh i thought it was all esoteric topics
07:11:16 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Yep xD
07:11:43 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Though, really, all esotericness would likely still be accepted
07:11:57 <zzo38> Yes pikhq is correct. (Of course we are not always on topic (often we are not), but still, we are not the one to know a lot about esotericism in this channel, so if you ask you are unlikely to get the answer you are looking for I think)
07:12:00 <hppavilion[1]> Esolangs are just what happen when your application of esotericism is in programming
07:12:22 <zzo38> But if you have a question, the best thing to do is to ask.
07:12:24 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: "Esotericism" tends to entail certain religious, mystic, or spiritual practices.
07:12:30 <hppavilion[1]> almightynsx: Also, learning "everything on the internet" is impossible
07:12:34 <zzo38> Even if, nobody knows the answers!
07:12:35 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Oh, really?
07:12:35 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Esoteric programming has little to do with that.
07:12:41 <hppavilion[1]> Huh
07:12:49 <hppavilion[1]> I thought Esotericism was basically the same as surrealism
07:13:00 <hppavilion[1]> (like Dali surrealism)
07:13:32 <pikhq> No, it refers to "secret knowledge".
07:13:35 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
07:13:42 <almightynsx> its just a secret teaching for the occult
07:13:50 <hppavilion[1]> almightynsx: Here's a list of every website on the internet, which may be of use: http://www.internetlivestats.com/watch/websites/
07:14:11 <Jafet> wait, so this isn't the channel for esoteric projection? or channelling projects?
07:14:16 <zzo38> I doubt you can have a proper list of every website on the internet, and even if you do have it, it is not the entire internet anyways.
07:14:32 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, wait
07:14:32 <pikhq> We're using "esoteric" in a vastly more literal sense, to say "intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people".
07:14:34 <zzo38> Jafet: It isn't, but if you have a question, ask anyways. Probably nobody knows, but how do you know until it is asked?
07:14:39 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently it isn't linky
07:14:43 <almightynsx> i have develpoed a study plan to learn almost study on the internet
07:14:51 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: yeah
07:14:55 <hppavilion[1]> But it's a start
07:14:55 <pikhq> If you can apply esotericism to esoteric programming languages, though, I will be damned pleased.
07:14:58 <zzo38> Nevertheless it is probably better to ask elsewhere if there is a better place to ask.
07:15:07 <pikhq> almightynsx: I suggest starting with formal logic, personally.
07:15:38 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Good idea
07:15:50 <hppavilion[1]> almightynsx: Learn formal logic; this is 100% the best place to start
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07:17:53 <almightynsx> thank you all for your support'
07:17:59 <zzo38> Formal logic is good, but how good it is, depend what you want to do.
07:19:06 <zzo38> Mathematics is perfect, but to figure out how the laws of physics are working you must make the scientific experiment, and such experiment is not as perfect as mathematics.
07:22:21 <zzo38> I think many people in this channel is atheist, but what is the actual proportion (approximately)?
07:23:20 <pikhq> Not sure. Probably much higher than average.
07:23:50 <zzo38> I think that the average must be the average of something. Average of what?
07:24:01 <pikhq> Average in the population at large.
07:24:33 <zzo38> All human population of the world or only of English speaking people or what?
07:25:25 <pikhq> Dunno. I was figuring more of the IRC-using population, TBH.
07:25:31 <zzo38> OK
07:25:50 <oerjan> isn't the IRC-using population also more likely to be atheist?
07:25:56 <zzo38> Now I know what you mean now, I think.
07:26:02 <zzo38> oerjan: I don't know?
07:26:18 <oerjan> simply from being nerdy
07:26:29 <pikhq> oerjan: Yes, that much is true.
07:27:49 <zzo38> Although I do not consider myself atheist but I consider myself as panendeist, although since it is difficult to know exactly what such classifications are meaning and some people's classifications may consider my beliefs as atheist even though I don't quite think so.
07:27:54 <almightynsx> anyone want to socialize on facebook?
07:28:44 <zzo38> I don't.
07:29:02 <zzo38> I don't use Facebook
07:30:11 <oerjan> i don't have the impression facebook is popular here, either. (i don't have it.)
07:30:32 <pikhq> I think I'm friends on Facebook with all the #esoteric people who use Facebook. :P
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07:41:43 <zzo38> I should to invent Unusenet it is same protocol NNTP like Usenet but the name is always start "un" optionally followed by a number, and then the dot, and then the rest of the name. If the number is specified then it specifies how to find the central server, for example if the name is "un2.net.example.aaa.bbbb" then the central server is "example.net".
07:42:57 <almightynsx> all add me on facebook almightynsx@yahoo.com
07:43:44 <zzo38> I don't use Facebook so I won't do that
07:44:09 <shachaf> If Facebook added Gopher support would you use it?
07:45:52 <zzo38> No
07:46:07 <shachaf> What would it take?
07:46:34 <zzo38> Facebook is not useful to me.
07:47:08 <shachaf> Don't you want to connect with friends and the world around you?
07:48:15 <almightynsx> yes but no one likes me because of the topics i am dealing with in my life
07:48:17 <zzo38> I can do that just by talking to them, although in many cases I do not need to.
07:48:42 <almightynsx> new age spirituality, visions of god, learning everything on the internet
07:49:11 <zzo38> As has been said before, you cannot "learn everything on the internet".
07:49:24 <almightynsx> i can too
07:49:29 <almightynsx> and ill prove that one day
07:49:33 <almightynsx> when i do it
07:50:32 <zzo38> Either way you try to parse that, it won't work even if you are success you will still fail.
07:50:46 <almightynsx> nope
07:54:10 <zzo38> Maybe you can find a book about such thing as new age spirituality, visions of god, but possibly you don't find? Then you must write a book. But of course book is not the only one, also computer, too.
07:55:51 <zzo38> If you are trying to ask other people how to interpret whatever hallucinations you are having, then I do not know how I could possibly answer such question, because I am not you.
07:58:00 <almightynsx> hmm
07:58:03 <almightynsx> good advise
07:58:53 <almightynsx> i just want to know advise on how to go about learning everything on the internet and if my visions are because im schizophrenic or because god loves me
08:00:30 <zzo38> Probably it is because schizophrenic (although I am not a doctor and do not know much of schizophrenia so I cannot say this properly), but maybe there can be possibility to be both? Or, they can be inspire you for such thing.
08:02:01 <almightynsx> i see the devil and talk to him audiably and i wonder why im not like the rest of the world
08:02:06 <almightynsx> why i see these things
08:02:41 <zzo38> Try asking a doctor and see if they know the answer. Possibly they don't, but I think it is worth a try.
08:03:12 <almightynsx> i go to see my doctor in two days
08:03:17 <zzo38> OK
08:03:17 <almightynsx> ill ask then
08:03:26 <almightynsx> but they dont know much about hullucinations
08:03:42 <zzo38> Ask someone who does know.
08:04:53 <zzo38> But you cannot learning everything on the internet; there are many different protocols, port numbers, file formats, languages, passwords, encrypted data, and other stuff; and also temporal, which also makes it impossible.
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08:05:21 <almightynsx> have you heard of opencourseware?
08:05:57 <zzo38> Yes, and I think you can learn some things from that
08:06:33 <almightynsx> im going to spend 5-10 years learning all the internet opencourseware
08:06:56 <zzo38> Well, I suppose you can do that at least.
08:08:42 <almightynsx> i think if i combined all the sciences and learn them all i would know all science which in on is all conscience con=with science=knowledge
08:09:09 <zzo38> No, that is impossible.
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08:09:32 <zzo38> Also, just if the word can be combine like such does not even make it possible.
08:10:58 <almightynsx> lol
08:11:11 <zzo38> It seems it is how etymology of "conscience", but just because it is how etymology does not do.
08:11:23 <almightynsx> well i would have a very good working knowledge of the universe, would you think?
08:12:04 <zzo38> The more you know, more you can know that you don't know.
08:12:36 <shachaf> The less you know, more you can know that you don't know.
08:13:52 <almightynsx> interesting
08:13:54 <zzo38> Partially, but also if you know then it must be something you know. Even all law of physics and stuff all scientist even won't know perfectly!
08:14:04 <almightynsx> i know that i wont know all but i atleast will know alot
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08:14:39 <almightynsx> what do you think of the plan though? any advise on the idea of learning all opencourseware?
08:14:40 <zzo38> Yes, you would know more than if you don't study it at all.
08:14:54 <zzo38> It is good to learn.
08:15:08 <almightynsx> im scared in going to die if i learn all that
08:15:13 <zzo38> I don't know how much is all opencourseware anyways though, so I cannot answer.
08:15:29 <zzo38> Everyone will die regardless; it is the matter of time.
08:16:41 <almightynsx> well im a christian a bigger question that ive pondered is i might go to hell for learning all of this. what do you say to that?
08:16:59 <zzo38> I think that is irrelevant.
08:17:11 <zzo38> I also do not think that is how it is supposed to work anyways.
08:17:39 <zzo38> (Also I am not Christian)
08:17:50 <zzo38> What denomination are you anyways though?
08:18:01 <almightynsx> non denom
08:18:26 <zzo38> OK
08:19:45 <almightynsx> whys that important
08:20:26 <zzo38> To see why you might expect to go to hell for learning all of this, mainly.
08:21:02 <almightynsx> what did you learn from it?
08:21:11 <almightynsx> any advise on that would be detrimental
08:22:20 <zzo38> That you are nondenominational Christian. I do not actually know a lot about such things anyways to answer such question, but if answer is posted, then it can help if anyone does know how to answer your question better based on that
08:22:43 <almightynsx> hmm
08:29:35 <almightynsx> thanks for the advise this is the best conversation ive had in awhile
08:31:14 <zzo38> Sometimes by hallucination can be inspiration of something, such as, I think Principia Discordia was written like that.
08:32:31 <zzo38> Even when you are sleeping, can be dream and can be hallucination and that too can be inspiration of something, such as, I have seen a chess puzzle that was claimed to be invented in that way.
08:33:22 <almightynsx> i live my dreams
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08:34:05 <almightynsx> i dream, remember them and believe w/e im dreaming about has very important implications to my life. i live and act this way in my dreams and believe they are real
08:35:30 <almightynsx> recently i was dreaming of crossing railroad tracks while carrying something and a woman was chasing me to make me stop. then when i finally gave in to her my heart felt immensely great when i did that action in my dream i even woke up and started thinking and talking about it
08:35:56 <almightynsx> i feel my dreams are real some how
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09:04:03 <baordog> !boobies
09:04:10 <baordog> Wrong room :/
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10:27:25 <gamemanj> "Principia Discordia"... I've heard of it, and have a way to check against it's calendar via an extremely indirect method, should it matter, but I don't understand what it's "about". Is today Zaraday, or was that yesterday?
10:28:36 <gamemanj> (Oh. It seems that the reference provider is not one, but two days out. Unfortunate.)
10:39:57 <gamemanj> For that matter, what is Zaraday...
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11:13:10 <shachaf> orin: SoundHound was finally useful to me.
11:18:04 <shachaf> soundpooch
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12:59:08 <fizzie> gamemanj: A holyday named after the apostle Zarathud hth
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13:27:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CSL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49139 * Actuallyallama * (+1565) first version of page
13:28:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CSL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49140&oldid=49139 * Actuallyallama * (+63) added implementation link
13:32:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CSL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49141&oldid=49140 * Actuallyallama * (+519) added more information
13:34:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CSL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49142&oldid=49141 * Actuallyallama * (+47) Added file extension info
13:35:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Actuallyallama]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49143&oldid=47293 * Actuallyallama * (+80) actual info!
13:38:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CSL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49144&oldid=49142 * Actuallyallama * (+136)
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14:01:32 <boily> `wisdom
14:01:53 <HackEgo> superexponential growth//Superexponential growth? SUPEREXPONENTIAL GROWTH?! HOLY CRAP!!!
14:05:41 <alercah> superexponential growth is not as crazy as busy beaver growth hth
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14:07:49 <boily> fluffy critters of the Canadian forest are fundamentally crazy.
14:07:58 <boily> also known as the FCCFFC theorem.
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15:03:17 <orin> I solved the problem with firefox by deleting firefox and installing a fresh copy
15:04:11 <orin> rm -rf first, ask questions later
15:04:55 <Jafet> so you literally outfoxed it
15:05:05 <gamemanj> someone should make a version of "rm" which acts like those things from Stargate
15:05:25 <gamemanj> shoot once to stun, twice to kill, three times... IDK what happens on three times, but it would probably remove all traces.
15:07:26 <myname> it's called a recycle bin
15:08:40 <orin> myname: I used the recycle bin, acutally, since this is a windows 7 computer
15:09:23 <myname> maybe you could've just created a new profile
15:11:33 <orin> maybe...
15:11:39 <orin> I'll try that
15:42:30 <orin> yep, worked!
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19:31:36 <moonythedwarf_> arf_> isowner(from,(dat) => {try {client.say(dat[0], eval(dat[2]));} catch (er) {client.say(dat[1], er);}},(dat) => {client.say(dat[0],"Permission denied")},[to,from,mdata.rest])
19:31:41 <moonythedwarf_> did i overdo it?
19:31:51 <moonythedwarf_> s/arf_>/ /
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19:53:24 <zzo38> gamemanj: I have implemented the Discordian calendar in ifMUD too
19:53:49 <zzo38> However, it uses the server's timezone, and does not include holidays other than St.Tib's day.
19:55:33 <zzo38> (St.Tib's day is a intercalary day)
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21:04:14 <gamemanj> zzo38: I'll note that if I ever go to ifMUD.
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21:58:21 <Zarutian> are turtle graphics strings considered esolangs in somesense? Specially if they started out as the result of a Lindenmeyer-system substitution?
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22:02:55 <gamemanj> Maybe if you defined the "complete" language (defining the Lindenmeyer-system definition language, and the accepted turtle graphics results) as an esolang?
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22:53:53 <hppavilion[1]> When human cloning is a thing, how will it fit into a family?
22:54:07 <hppavilion[1]> Like, what's your clone's wife called?
22:54:32 <hppavilion[1]> A clone is genetically the same as a twin sibling (unless you modify their genes), but they can be several years younger
22:54:48 <hppavilion[1]> So you might treat them as a brother/sister, making a clone's wife your sister-in-law
22:55:08 <hppavilion[1]> (wait...)
22:56:16 <hppavilion[1]> 52% of identical twins that have one gay member are both gay
22:56:19 <hppavilion[1]> So that settles that
22:56:33 <hppavilion[1]> There's no all-powerful gay gene that singlehandedly determines orientation
22:57:31 <myname> wait, what?
22:57:46 <myname> do you have a source for that 52%
22:58:00 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Crap, no
22:58:04 <hppavilion[1]> Just wikipedia xD
22:58:08 <hppavilion[1]> I will check the citation
22:58:20 <myname> what article
22:58:23 <hppavilion[1]> Bailey JM, Pillard, RC (1991). "A Genetic Study of Male Sexual Orientation". Archives of General Psychiatry. 48 (12): 1089–96. doi:10.1001/archpsyc.1991.01810360053008. PMID 1845227.
22:58:47 <myname> meh, 1991
22:58:53 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, yeah
22:58:56 <hppavilion[1]> The study has been criticized for possible selection bias, in that gay twins are more likely to participate
22:59:04 <myname> i wonder if a repeating study will,yield the same result
22:59:11 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Good idea
22:59:27 <hppavilion[1]> But 52% is still rather far away from ~100%
22:59:28 <myname> 52% sounds like way too high
22:59:40 <hppavilion[1]> myname: This is only when at least one is gay
22:59:59 <myname> so‹
23:00:23 <myname> if ypu count these as independent or close, it should be way less
23:00:23 <hppavilion[1]> myname: As in, if you identical twin is gay, the study finds that in 52% of cases, you're gay too
23:00:34 <myname> i understood
23:00:36 <hppavilion[1]> OK
23:01:37 <hppavilion[1]> And since identical twins' DNA is virtually identical, this casts /serious/ doubt on the idea of a "gay gene"
23:02:27 <hppavilion[1]> (keep in mind, I'm not saying that this means that- since being gay is the result of nurture- this changes anything about gay rights; just because it's not genetic doesn't mean it's invalid; but now we can't use the gay gene argument any more)
23:02:36 <hppavilion[1]> "we" being those of us who would
23:03:05 <myname> the thing is, if it has _nothing_ to do with genes (which is what i'd assume) it should be way more towards the general percentage
23:03:45 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Yes
23:04:19 <hppavilion[1]> myname: But this is just debunking the typical interpretation of a "gay gene"- some sort of all-powerful gene that, when active, makes you gay in 100% of cases and when not present makes you straight
23:04:25 <hppavilion[1]> (how this explains bisexuals, I don't know)
23:04:43 <hppavilion[1]> Where, no matter how you're raised, the presence of such a gene will make you gay
23:05:01 <myname> what wikipedia article is this from
23:05:02 <hppavilion[1]> On a related note
23:05:16 <hppavilion[1]> myname: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Twin_studies
23:05:28 <hppavilion[1]> I'm probably jumping to conclusions too fast
23:05:33 <hppavilion[1]> But on a related note
23:06:20 <hppavilion[1]> I've heard that transgender...ness is the result of your mothers body giving too much or too little testosterone to a developing fetus, causing its body to develop incorrectly against its genes
23:06:46 <hppavilion[1]> (Not sure if this is true, and it probably isn't. But it might be. I don't know.)
23:07:06 <hppavilion[1]> But this leads me to wondering if identical twins have ever developed where that happened to one but not the other
23:07:20 <hppavilion[1]> Causing identical twins of different genders
23:07:59 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, wait, a later study (2000) found results closer to the population average
23:08:23 <myname> i am wondering how many of those gay twins are attracted to each other
23:08:40 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Let's not think about that
23:08:50 <myname> what number was it
23:08:54 <hppavilion[1]> [4]
23:09:05 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Probably 100% of them when they also have narcissistic personality disorder
23:09:21 <pecan> lol
23:09:49 <myname> the 2000 study
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23:19:16 <hppavilion[1]> Situs inversus is interesting
23:19:57 <hppavilion[1]> Do americans with Situs inversus use their left had when pledging allegiance to the flag of the united states of america in life and in death?
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