00:08:56 <hppavilion> I just cleared my inbox down to only 6 conversations in total
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01:24:24 <boily> @tell oerjan hellørjan.
01:24:33 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
01:31:39 <hppavilion> Just received an email from the Trump campaign where the 'Unsubscribe' button doesn't work. US law requires a working button. I cited law at them.
01:37:29 <ais523> hppavilion: you should report them to whoever you're meant to report that sort of thing to
01:37:36 <ais523> also why are the Trump campaign emailing you anyway?
01:38:12 <hppavilion> ais523: They made a survey for what you want to see happen at the debate. I filled it out. For fun.
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01:48:15 <HackEgo> keemyb: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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02:03:17 <hppavilion> What does #esoteric think of the Triangle of Power (the math notation)
02:05:34 <boily> triangle of power?
02:06:05 <hppavilion> (Also, I think I just stumbled on something better than big sigma/big pi/big whatever: basket notation, which is like big whatever BUT it can be applied to any operation- you write a basket (which looks like a large, more square version of union with an overline like in roots coming off the right side, terminating in a down-serif), above it goes your terminating condition (if you want it to go to infinity, write nothing), below is your
02:06:05 <hppavilion> initial state and- optionally- a semicolon followed by a filter (e.g. x%2 == 0), to the right (under the overline) is the formula, and inside the "basket" is the symbol for a binary operation or function
02:07:42 <hppavilion> You have an equilateral, upwards-pointing triangle (of course), in the bottom left is a base, at the top is a power, and in the bottom right is the result. A blank bottom right represents exponentiation, a blank bottom left represents rootation, and a blank pinnacle represents logation
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02:17:37 <Sgeo> hppavilion, have some criticism of it https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/4hv523/triangle_of_power_a_newly_created_mathematical/d2tmbxz
02:20:07 <hppavilion> Sgeo: Ah, yes, that didn't occur to me. I have been trying to decide if a more compact notation looks better- I'm thinking a[right-facing triangle]b for power, a[left-facing triangle]b for root, and a[vertical triangle]b for log.
02:27:14 <lambdabot> boily said 1d 16h 10m 21s ago: QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAA! I am even more unsynchronized as usual!
02:29:50 <FreeFull> hppavilion: I'm having trouble remembering which positions on the triangle correspond to which operation
02:30:10 <hppavilion> FreeFull: Yeah, I realized that, then I realized there's a simple fix
02:30:42 <hppavilion> (1) swap the compact symbols as given for root and log, (2) 'right is for root, left is for log'
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03:37:11 <\oren\> I've improved the jamo to prevent most of the collisions: http://www.orenwatson.be/hangulgeneratedtext.htm
03:39:09 <lifthrasiir> my firefox is broken while opening that url
03:39:32 <\oren\> I'm using firefox too, and it works.
03:40:03 <lifthrasiir> I'm not sure why, but my firefox has been very slow with certain monospace fonts
03:40:29 <lifthrasiir> I can confirm that it's due to fonts from profiling
03:40:43 <lifthrasiir> but have no clue why that happens (and why other fonts seem to be fine)
03:43:53 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: initial ㅌ sometimes seems to be indistinguishable from ㄷ (and ㅎ sometimes looks like ㆆ)
03:44:14 <lifthrasiir> the final consonant also occasionally blends with the vowels, but that is probably inevitable
03:44:37 <lifthrasiir> the overall shape seems to be fine otherwise, though I should describe it to be quirky
03:45:22 <\oren\> OnceI've generated a good enough in general thing, I'll go over them and adjust stuff
03:46:09 <lifthrasiir> always interesting to see a hangul font not from korea
03:54:37 <pikhq> lifthrasiir: It appears to be stylistically consistent with the other glyphs in oren's font, FWIW.
03:59:12 <\oren\> for the most part the characters in my font are in a sans-serif or "gothic" style
04:01:22 <\oren\> but sometimes I found it necessary to vary the stroke width in order for complex characters to fit in a 16 by 18 pixel space
04:02:16 <\oren\> when that isn't the case, the stroke width is two pixels.
04:12:06 <\oren\> hmmm I've almost solved the problems
04:12:18 <\oren\> just a bit more tweaking
04:13:36 <\oren\> I really don't want anything to collide
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05:07:42 <Sgeo> XKCD title text contains spoilers for a story.
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06:50:07 <shachaf> https://twitter.com/aisamanra/status/779057953542242304
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07:04:06 <wob_jonas> Today's xkcd is a metaphor for healthcare. "Hospitals are not worth at our scale. If an organ fails in a person, we just throw away the entire person." "Why mess with individual people? We just throw away the entire country if it's managed wrong."
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07:10:13 <shachaf> not jumping straight to H[-1](a, b)?
07:22:25 <hppavilion> shachaf: Not yet; I genuinely want to know what a^^-1 is
07:22:41 <shachaf> @google negative tetration
07:22:42 <lambdabot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetration
07:24:28 <pikhq> Hrm, apparently it's hard to meaningfully extend tetration to the reals.
07:26:40 <shachaf> That's what the link I posted says.
07:29:11 <pikhq> Yup. It provides some extensions, but they don't agree, they're not generally accepted, and they're not exactly simple.
07:29:56 <hppavilion> Huh, (b^r)^s cannot consistently hold if b can be real
07:31:29 <hppavilion> Because b can be negative; if r*s is an integer- but r and s aren't (e.g. r = 1/s), you get... weirdness, I guess. (-1^3/4)^4/3 is sqrt(i)^3, and from what I know ab
07:33:16 <hppavilion> *about imaginary numbers, sqrt(i) should be the point on the unit circle between 1 and i; so... 2a^2=1, a^2 = 0.5, a=sqrt(0.5); a ≈ 0.707+0.707i
07:33:57 <hppavilion> And you want to raise that to the power of 4/3... so cube root tesseracted...
07:36:55 <hppavilion> I got 0.5000000000000002+0.8660254037844386i, and accounting for rounding errors suggest it's about 0.5+0.8660254037844386i
07:37:16 <hppavilion> But if we just did -1^(3/4*4/3), we trivially just get -1
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08:03:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49756&oldid=49674 * Qwerp-Derp * (+2) Fixed formatting towards bottom of page
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08:41:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SMETANA To Infinity!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49757&oldid=49755 * Keymaker * (+97) Linked the brainfuck translations page.
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09:29:35 <izalove> chapter 1 exercise 17 in k&r
09:29:45 <izalove> write a program that prints all the lines longer than 80 characters
09:29:58 <izalove> yesterday a sort of challenge came up in ##c
09:30:20 <izalove> write the fastest program that solves that problem
09:30:52 <izalove> let's have some competition
09:33:29 <izalove> you can write it in any language
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09:39:10 <hppavilion> Games can often be PvP (Player vs Player, analogous to Man vs Man in stories), PvM (Player vs. Monster, similar but slightly different), or PvE (Player vs. Environment; similar to Man vs. Nature)
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09:39:42 <hppavilion> I want to see a game that's Pv< (Player vs. Self, like Man vs. Self); or, more interesting, PvS (Player vs. Society)
09:43:33 <myname> where would you put fahrenheit?
09:45:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tolilul * New user account
09:46:38 <myname> wob_jonas: i meant the game
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10:24:10 <HackEgo> bin/ftoc: Perl script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable
10:24:16 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl \ $f=0+$ARGV; printf"%.2f°F = %.2f°C",$f,($f-32)*5/9;
10:24:45 <Taneb> izalove, I might give that challenge a go
10:27:29 <Taneb> I might try Piet just for fun
10:28:03 <Taneb> Not going to win the speed that way, though
10:28:26 <izalove> dunno, maybe with a decently optimizing compiler
10:28:38 <myname> why not try to solve that golf challenge where you have to find the shortest unique prefix of each line in piet
10:29:06 <Taneb> It'd have to be hella optimizing to beat people doing it in C with like actual seriously developed compilers
10:29:15 <Taneb> But first, I need to get out of bed
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10:36:32 <lambdabot> boily said 9h 12m 7s ago: hellørjan.
10:53:46 <oerjan> `learn WTF means Welcome To Finland.
10:53:49 <HackEgo> Learned 'wtf': WTF means Welcome To Finland.
10:54:01 <oerjan> (stolen from a youtube comment)
10:54:27 <oerjan> (see <izalove> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHReqKRvonE you need to watch this video)
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11:24:17 <HackEgo> Duck typing means typing on a terminal blinding without an echo.
11:24:24 <HackEgo> Duck typing means typing on a terminal blindly without an echo.
11:24:50 <wob_jonas> and why does the first one say blinding?
11:24:55 <HackEgo> 2016-02-16 <b_jonas> learn Duck typing means typing on a terminal blinding without an echo.
11:25:05 <HackEgo> 2016-04-03 <b_jonas> slashlearn duck typing/Duck typing means typing on a terminal blindly without an echo. \ 2016-02-16 <b_jonas> slashlearn duck typing/Duck typing means typing on a terminal blinding without an echo.
11:25:09 <izalove> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trqbOAs6428 WATCH THIS ALL OF IT
11:26:21 * oerjan closes the trump thing
11:27:00 <oerjan> seriously, i'm trying to avoid this.
11:28:15 <oerjan> wob_jonas: i'm having trouble seeing the point of your entry. it is neither true nor punny afaict.
11:28:25 <HackEgo> co-np//co-NP, invented in Soviet Russia, is the class of decisions for which you are No Problem.
11:28:59 <wob_jonas> oerjan: it's a joke about how a duck's quack doesn't echo
11:29:17 <wob_jonas> probably a stupid joke, but a joke nonetheless
11:29:55 <boily> wellob_jellonas. didn't they even have the Mythbusters on it one time?
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11:47:48 <fizzie> It was even included in one variant of the opening credits.
11:48:03 <fizzie> Jamie saying "quack, damn you" to an uncoöperative duck.
12:05:42 <oerjan> <int-e> remember when this channel wasn't about politics? those were good times... <-- . o O ( should we have a vote on whether to ban politics until Nov 9 )
12:09:57 <oerjan> i suppose we aren't actually having flamewars though.
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12:36:44 <HackEgo> elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond
12:40:53 <wob_jonas> but yes, the many topics is why this channel is the best
12:41:14 <wob_jonas> there's crazy maths, fonts, esoteric languages, and more
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13:00:36 <wob_jonas> crazy maths including category theory
13:00:41 <HackEgo> Universal properties are the best.
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13:18:46 * Taneb is working on the izapietchallenge
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14:30:36 <izalove> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/35/24/87/352487048a5d8b4f9000f0baab53a6d1.jpg
14:30:51 <fungot> wob_jonas: you said it's not just a gtk interface.
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14:37:23 <fungot> int-e: obfuscation is possible in emacs, i will prepare something and return later, that'd be civil disobedience ignoring laws might be healthy, regardless of whether or not it is.
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14:42:06 <int-e> `` grep fungot /usr/share/dict/*
14:42:06 <fungot> int-e: i think you need to start going, the people haven't shown up on the freenode faq. it's not in ascii order.
14:42:07 <HackEgo> grep: /usr/share/dict/*: No such file or directory
14:42:54 <int-e> Oh yes, the freenode faq is quite hard to find.
14:43:27 <Taneb> izalove, I got kicked out the software lab and now I'm in a meeting
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14:49:59 <wob_jonas> "civil disobedience ignoring laws might be healthy, regardless of whether or not it is" -- well said, fungot
14:49:59 <fungot> wob_jonas: some kind of toy compiler/ interpreter
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15:49:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SMETANA To Infinity!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49758&oldid=49757 * Oerjan * (+0) /* Computational class */ sdrawkcab s'taht
15:55:43 <izalove> Taneb: i can't believe you'd do such a thing
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16:04:17 <\oren\> I don't even understand how some of the prices of things I buy are possible
16:05:03 <\oren\> I bought a thing to be shipped to my house from hong kong. Apparently, the thing and shipping it is a total of 2 canadian dollars
16:05:37 <\oren\> i mean, sure, it's just a usb thingy, but still. two dollars?
16:09:16 <izalove> it's not being carried on a silver plate
16:11:20 <\oren\> but still, they are moving a thing more than 10 megametres across the earth!
16:11:47 <\oren\> how is the cost per kilometre so low?
16:12:37 <izalove> they carry a shitton of them at a time
16:22:52 <wob_jonas> \oren\: I agree, it's totally impossible
16:23:31 <wob_jonas> post from China and Taiwan is magic
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17:07:11 <\oren\> Rodrigo Duterte once forced a south korean tourist to eat his cigarette.
17:11:07 <\oren\> smoking in public is banned in Davao City, so he saw fit to enact an immediate punishment
17:11:54 <wob_jonas> \oren\: was the cigarette still lit while the tourist ate it?
17:12:07 <\oren\> http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/09/23/495012102/criticized-abroad-philippines-leader-remains-hugely-popular-in-home-city
17:12:10 <wob_jonas> and did Rodrigo Duterte at least put away his own cigarette while he did that?
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17:39:16 <Taneb> Wow, I am out of practice of Piet
17:56:34 <izalove> if i have an array with n numbers, can you find the smallest difference between any two elements in less than O(n log n) ?
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17:57:30 <izalove> or should i just sort the thing?
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18:00:46 <Taneb> wob_jonas, Piet was the first programming language I learnt
18:01:08 <wob_jonas> why would you learn an esoteric programming language as your first language?
18:01:29 <Taneb> It's how I got into programming
18:01:35 <wob_jonas> there are perfectly good non-esoteric programming languages out that are hard to program
18:04:04 <wob_jonas> why didn't you just program Basic or something?
18:04:24 <Taneb> I'm heading out now, though
18:04:36 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
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19:14:40 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: perle: not found
19:14:42 <ais523> `perl-e print 9**(1/3)
19:14:59 <ais523> I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it's only slightly above 2
19:15:02 <ais523> `perl-e print 26**(1/3)
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21:16:32 <FireFly> Piet is a pretty interesting first language
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21:37:29 <lambdabot> https://oeis.org/A080601 Number of positions in which the 3 X 3 X 3 Rubik's ...
21:37:29 <lambdabot> [1,18,243,3240,43239,574908,7618438,100803036,1332343288,17596479795,2322480...
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22:02:09 <int-e> there are still 5 values missing
22:03:24 <shachaf> Yes. There are approxmations but I guess they don't belong on OEIS.
22:04:33 <int-e> 1 sqrt(2) e pi ...
22:04:57 <myname> sounds not very integery
22:05:17 <FreeFull> Due to the increasing number of duplicate positions
22:06:19 <int-e> myname: they are approximately integers... to some degree...
22:07:53 <FreeFull> The least integery number is (1+sqrt(5))/2
22:08:26 <shachaf> So polynomials are elements of a free ring?
22:08:35 <shachaf> And regular expressions are elements of a free Kleene algebra?
22:09:25 <int-e> > [((1 + sqrt 5)/2)^n/sqrt 5 | n <- [0..10]]
22:09:27 <lambdabot> [0.4472135954999579,0.7236067977499789,1.1708203932499368,1.8944271909999157...
22:09:36 <int-e> > drop 5 $ [((1 + sqrt 5)/2)^n/sqrt 5 | n <- [0..10]]
22:09:36 <FreeFull> Because multiplying it by a rational helps the least in making it integery
22:09:38 <lambdabot> [4.959674775249769,8.024922359499621,12.984597134749391,21.00951949424901,33...
22:09:53 <int-e> looks like a good approximate integer sequence to me.
22:10:04 <myname> FreeFull: so 1+sqrt(5) is the same
22:10:33 <FreeFull> Yeah, but if you divide it by two then the continued fraction is [1;1,1,1,1,1...]
22:10:36 <myname> since multiplying it by 1/2 will go to that
22:11:03 <myname> how makes it that any less integery as sqrt(2)?
22:11:46 <FreeFull> The continued fraction for sqrt(2) will converge a lot faster
22:12:21 <FreeFull> So you'll have good rational approximations
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22:16:45 <int-e> [1;2,2,2,2...] isn't *that* much better than phi though
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22:46:23 <Cale> > let fibs = 1 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) in zipWith (/) (tail fibs) fibs !! 20
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22:53:43 <int-e> duh, let x :: Foo; x = ... in x does not ensure that the resulting expression has type Foo.
22:54:12 <lambdabot> mueval-core: internal error: PAP object entered!
22:54:12 <lambdabot> (GHC version 8.0.1 for x86_64_unknown_linux)
22:54:12 <lambdabot> Please report this as a GHC bug: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/reportabug
22:54:27 <ais523> I wasn't expecting an ICE on an expression as short as that
22:54:31 <ais523> what does ?x do anyway?
22:54:44 <int-e> ais523: it's a lie, this is not ghc's fault.
22:54:56 <int-e> it's an implicit parameter
22:54:58 <ais523> ":: ()" isn't something that should type
22:55:25 <ais523> what a strange definition of ::
22:55:34 <int-e> :t show (?x :: ())
22:55:47 <ais523> :: is type annotation in Haskell
22:55:51 <izalove> why is there a limit on the number of open file descriptors per process?
22:55:54 <ais523> got it muddled with ocaml
22:56:26 <Cale> izalove: Because there is a limit on the number of open file descriptors for the whole system which is pretty restrictive usually.
22:56:45 <izalove> Cale: that's fine but why enforcing it on a per process basis?
22:57:11 <int-e> hint/mueval are assuming that show (?x :: ()) is a String, but here it's (?x::()) => String. They use unsafeCoerce to treat it as a String... and that causes the error.
22:57:17 <Cale> Well, just to limit the effect that any one process can have on the rest of the system, I would suppose.
22:57:27 <izalove> sortix doesn't have that limit
22:57:49 <Cale> You can usually set the per-process limit
22:58:00 <int-e> Which is all very nice but how does one fix this elegantly? Food for thought.
22:58:07 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘show_M72086211520596876424453’
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23:02:14 <int-e> yes it appears that type classes are resolved just eagerly enough that this is only happening for implicit parameters
23:03:35 <shachaf> int-e: Why was TypeApplications not enabled?
23:03:39 <shachaf> I vaguely remember there was some reason?
23:04:09 <int-e> It makes @ whitespace sensitive.
23:05:58 <int-e> > let foo (x @ ~(y:z)) = (x,y,z) in foo  -- it would break this, for example
23:06:00 <lambdabot> (,*Exception: <interactive>:3:5-30: Irrefutable pattern failed for pattern...
23:07:51 <int-e> you'd have to write the pattern as (x@ ~(y:z)) instead
23:08:21 <shachaf> So you're saying you just don't like the extension.
23:08:30 <shachaf> Not that there's any other reason not to turn it on in lambdabot.
23:10:43 <int-e> It's likely safe. But ugly.
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