00:01:36 <kipple> greg: is there a not equal comparator in the mathematician?
00:01:57 <kipple> or do I have to test for both greater and less?
00:03:11 <GregorR-L> And no, because that would be needless 8-D
00:03:40 <GregorR-L> How's this design: http://www.befunge.org/fyb/GregorR.html
00:03:41 <kipple> btw, there is a bug in the loop example in the spex
00:04:05 <kipple> If Fibonacci says it's greater then I am to loop.
00:04:15 <kipple> If Fibonacci says it's greater then I am to loop the number.
00:04:40 <GregorR-L> Loop loops that very same function with the same parameters etc.
00:04:53 <kipple> sure? didn't work for me
00:05:23 <GregorR-L> Hmm ....... just a sec, I've got to go for a few minutes, then I'll be back and we'll discuss.
00:06:27 <kipple> I think there is some css propery you can use to make the background code be unselectable....
00:19:57 <GregorR-L> So does the pointer to the image show right for both of you?
00:20:35 <GregorR-L> Are either of you NOT using Netscape, Mozilla or Firefox?
00:21:06 <GregorR-L> OK, so anyway, could you give me the code you were having looping issues with?
00:21:22 <kipple> it works fine. I just had to give it the parameter
00:22:18 <GregorR-L> I don't see how that could work, given what the compiler does ....
00:22:25 <GregorR-L> Could you send me the code anyway? :-P
00:22:47 <kipple> http://rune.krokodille.com/lang/beer.ork
00:23:37 <kipple> has someone else made it as well?
00:24:08 <pgimeno> GregorR-L: FYI, in Konqueror it does not work well
00:24:27 <GregorR-L> If Bob the Big Brain says it's greater then I am to sing the song. < this ought to be able to say "I am to loop"
00:24:56 <GregorR-L> That way, it will loop rather than recurse.
00:24:58 <kipple> that's a bit unclear in the spec
00:25:13 <GregorR-L> pgimeno: I have Konq here, so I'll look into it.
00:25:24 <kipple> it looks like loop is a function
00:27:36 <GregorR-L> Congrats kipple, you are the first person to write a fully-functional program in ORK other than myself 8-D
00:34:53 <kipple> can you do string concatenation?
00:36:07 <kipple> are there any examples using it?
00:36:56 <GregorR-L> D'OH ... I forgot to upload my newer spec too X-D
00:38:14 <kipple> sorry. was looking at a local copy :P
00:42:17 <kipple> what's the difference between There is [a variable called x] and I have [a variable called x] ?
00:53:34 <kipple> I have updated beer.ork so it doesn't say "1 bottles" anymore.
00:54:05 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
01:00:42 <GregorR-L> None, except that one may sound more PC.
01:00:50 <GregorR-L> IE: You don't usually "have" a mathematician, since that is a person.
01:03:43 <kipple> anyway, it was a bit painful to write in ORK :) so many words for so little ...
01:10:04 <kipple> writing a kipple interpreter must be cruel....
01:13:32 <kipple> so how do you manage to do stacks?
01:14:11 <GregorR-L> I don't think I introduced number arrays in the spec ...
01:14:20 <GregorR-L> But their design happens to be particularly condusive to stacks.
01:14:42 <GregorR-L> BTW, writing a complete spec is for the weak.
01:15:06 <kipple> source code is always a good spec :)
01:15:21 <GregorR-L> My BF interpreter uses number arrays.
01:17:21 <kipple> hmm. is it possible to do something like this:
01:17:27 <kipple> There is such a thing as a stack item.
01:17:28 <kipple> A stack item has an item below which is a stack item.
01:17:28 <kipple> A stack item has an item on top which is a stack item.
01:18:34 <GregorR-L> That would get you caught in an instanciation loop (if you will)
01:19:55 <GregorR-L> Gah, foiled by konqueror again >_O
01:20:45 <kipple> hmm. it looks worse in Opera now...
01:21:36 <kipple> what's the problem (are we thinking of the same?) ?
01:22:11 <GregorR-L> Mine is just inter-page links not working.
01:23:07 <GregorR-L> They're not on the uploaded version yet ;)
01:23:27 <kipple> the "This is Gregor" text is now aligned with the bottom of the image, and a bit hard to read with the ******* below it
01:25:14 <GregorR-L> Oh, it's actually on top of the code?
01:25:28 <GregorR-L> I did reallign it, I was hoping it wouldn't move around much :-P
01:28:05 <GregorR-L> http://www.befunge.org/fyb/GregorR.html < is the image stil malligned, and also, do the links work for you?
01:28:13 <GregorR-L> Just those top few links, to "2L" and "FYB"
01:28:38 <kipple> how is the image supposed to be aligned?
01:28:58 <GregorR-L> It should look sort of like it's sitting above the row of *********s
01:29:07 <GregorR-L> And the label should be at the same level
01:29:40 <GregorR-L> KDE and MacOSX users don't need links *shrugs*
01:30:39 <kipple> above as in on the line above or as overlapping?
01:31:31 <kipple> the rest of the text fits nice in firefox, but not i opera
01:32:34 <kipple> sorry. that should be yes
01:32:44 <kipple> now the text is screwed up in firefox as well
01:33:15 <kipple> IE is ever worse, but who cares ;)
01:33:32 <kipple> the "< This is Gregor" as well?
01:35:50 <kipple> screenshot: http://rune.krokodille.com/gregor.jpg
01:36:32 <GregorR-L> I was afraid it would be UP a line.
01:36:47 <kipple> you fixed it while I took the shot
01:37:14 <GregorR-L> OK, wait, the current version looks right in FF?
01:37:27 <kipple> not any more :) one line too low
01:37:45 <GregorR-L> There hasn't been a change since 5 minutes ago!
01:37:59 <kipple> it changes when I reload
01:38:26 <kipple> it switches between two versions rather randomly
01:40:04 <kipple> have you tried reloading many times in a row?
01:41:43 * kipple is downloading FF 1.03
01:43:43 <kipple> must be a windows thing
01:44:03 <kipple> i suspect it is a rounding error...
01:44:38 <kipple> a non-deterministic web design. that's esoteric :)
01:45:01 <GregorR-L> No, that's platform compatability at its best ;)
01:46:25 <kipple> hey! it works in Opera now!!
01:47:08 <GregorR-L> I separated them to hopefully make only one fail :-P
01:48:18 <kipple> what if you add an empty line below the image text. with only a for instance
01:48:42 <GregorR-L> Just a sec, I just thought of a possibility.
01:49:28 <GregorR-L> I just made it fail the same in my FFox :-P
01:51:28 <GregorR-L> Last try before I've gtg, refresh once more.
01:52:06 <kipple> fine in FF, not in Opera :(
01:52:22 <kipple> text is one line too high up in opera
01:53:12 <GregorR-L> OK, then I think I at least know what the browser consistancy issue is.
01:54:41 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving").
02:22:51 <GregorR> If my latest iteration doesn't work, I will eat my hat.
02:22:59 <GregorR> Any of them, take your pick: http://www.codu.org/hats.php
02:23:10 <GregorR> Gotta get my laptop up and upload it first though ;)
02:32:56 <GregorR> I'm betting kipple is asleep X-D
02:33:50 <GregorR> http://www.befunge.org/fyb/GregorR.html
02:33:54 <GregorR> So you're awake at 3:30AM?
02:35:03 <kipple> damn. your hat is safe ;)
02:37:22 -!- kipple has left (?).
03:22:23 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:09:22 -!- GregorR has joined.
05:18:03 -!- Keymaker has joined.
05:18:24 <Keymaker> i saw wonderful dream where i realized how Thue works.
05:18:34 <Keymaker> guess does it work the way i saw..?
05:19:05 <Keymaker> interesting stuff seems to have happened
05:19:17 <Keymaker> cool pages both gregor and pgimeno
05:19:43 <Keymaker> as well, cool to see kipple's 99bob
05:19:56 <Keymaker> and, too bad bitxtreme was a joke
05:57:40 <GregorR> I can'te believe I finally got the derned thing working in all browsers :)
05:58:51 <Keymaker> yeah, web design can be annoying
06:05:36 -!- GregorR-L has joined.
06:16:11 <Keymaker> you hear me day? you're stupdi!
06:16:38 <Keymaker> come on.. it wouldn't harm anyone to just skip one day :)
06:20:56 <GregorR-L> There would be no 99-bottles-of-beer in ORK!
06:21:43 * GregorR-L is still trying to decide whether to publish 1L
06:22:15 <Keymaker> yes. but if it would be skipped NOW.. :)
06:22:21 <Keymaker> i would avoid annoying shoocl day
06:23:07 <GregorR-L> Ah yes, the miracle of time zones.
06:23:25 <Keymaker> they are the most esoteric ones
06:23:39 <GregorR-L> Why is it that everybody on this channel is from Western Europe except me X-D
06:23:41 <Keymaker> where would be different timezones
06:23:56 <Keymaker> hehe we europeans are sramtsest
06:24:15 <GregorR-L> If me not so dumb, me take offense!
06:24:35 <Keymaker> somehow the instructions would be executed at different times depending on their place
06:24:55 <GregorR-L> And actually ofset by hours, so it could take as many as 24 hours to run a small program.
06:25:42 <Keymaker> not to mention making the interpreter do some stuff on background, like tirelesly computing pi to slow the work of computer..
06:30:00 <Keymaker> at least the breakfsat (that i usually skip) is good today: pizza from yesterday and some coca
06:30:38 <GregorR-L> Hmm ... somewhere between here and befunge.org, my HTML is being weirded.
06:32:29 <Keymaker> anyways; interesting job for you: write ORK interpreter in ORK :)
06:32:40 <Keymaker> should be possible since it's turing complete ;)
06:33:09 <GregorR-L> Also, more painful then I can possibly describe.
06:38:47 <Keymaker> i should finisf my bf in bf interpreter
06:38:47 <Keymaker> i'm typing with one hand and continuously making stupid mistakes
06:38:47 <Keymaker> (other hand is busy holding the pizza)
06:41:31 <GregorR-L> http://www.befunge.org/fyb/GregorR.html < pretty much complete now
06:42:41 <GregorR-L> Should I make my head bounce around in the background?
06:42:57 <GregorR-L> Ooooooooooooooooooh, I've got a better idea!
06:44:01 <Keymaker> the 2l hello world example can't be found
06:48:14 <Keymaker> seems that this day is, along with all the other annoying, cleaning day x{
06:48:37 <Keymaker> maybe i should clean before going to school.. hmm.
06:52:22 <GregorR-L> http://www.befunge.org/fyb/GregorR.html
06:54:29 <GregorR-L> Oh, I was thinking 2L at first, then later thought BF X-D
06:55:31 <puzzlet> http://puzzlet.org/tmp/braille.htm
06:55:40 <puzzlet> Conway's Game of Life in Braille patterns
06:57:11 <puzzlet> dot characters for the blind people
06:57:33 <GregorR-L> They're usually on walls engraved into metal, so blind people can read them with their hands.
06:57:49 <GregorR-L> Actually, embossed in metal I believe would be the correct term.
06:58:22 <Keymaker> too bad i can't get the script to work
06:58:31 <Keymaker> i'm currently in win and with FF
06:58:41 <GregorR-L> I'm using FF and it works fine for me.
06:58:55 <Keymaker> maybe i have some strange settings or something
06:59:12 <puzzlet> maybe you need to install some font?
06:59:23 <GregorR-L> Mayhaps it's a font that's (surprise!) not available on Windoze.
06:59:27 <puzzlet> http://home.att.net/~jameskass/code2000_page.htm
07:00:33 <Keymaker> hmm i'n not big fan of downloading things
07:00:45 <Keymaker> i'll try in linux in opera today later
07:05:13 <Keymaker> do you know this lang gregor? :
07:05:13 <Keymaker> http://www.veling.nl/anne/lang/hello/
07:05:32 <Keymaker> i should write new version of my bf hello world interpreter :)
07:06:43 <puzzlet> reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HQ9_Plus
07:29:16 <GregorR-L> You need to at least be able to increment the accumulator.
07:33:27 <Keymaker> see you later if i make it through this day :)
07:33:38 -!- Keymaker has quit ("Freedom!").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:02:39 -!- lament has joined.
08:03:25 -!- Xin_ has joined.
08:20:40 -!- rollman has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
08:29:13 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
08:46:17 -!- KnX has joined.
08:46:41 -!- calamari has joined.
09:16:50 -!- KnX has quit ("Faut que je trouve un quit message ...").
09:18:09 -!- KnX has joined.
10:28:08 <pgimeno> haha, "It was my professional opinion that the programming world needed an esoteric object oriented programming language (other than Java of course)"
10:38:22 * pgimeno ponders whether to write an ORK interpreter in either JavaScript, PHP or Python
10:38:38 <lament> normally i'd say python
10:38:44 <lament> but go ahead and do it in javascript :)
10:47:25 <pgimeno> I'd better concentrate in my current projects rather than queuing another one
10:48:17 <KnX> fork(life);
10:48:33 <pgimeno> child processes tend to be too rebel
10:49:03 <pgimeno> This is a known bug that will be fixed in Universe 1.1
11:16:06 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
12:01:26 -!- hashendgame has joined.
14:15:20 -!- hashendgame has quit ("Leaving").
14:16:46 -!- kipple has joined.
15:28:56 -!- Keymaker has joined.
15:29:03 <Keymaker> i'm alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
15:30:39 <KnX> good thing
15:34:57 <kipple> because you're addicted?
15:35:34 <kipple> repeat after me: My name is Keymaker, and I am an esoholic
15:35:53 <Keymaker> must.. get.. daily.. esoteric.. programs..
15:36:30 <Keymaker> (as well, i partly meant the question as philosophical joke :))
15:59:31 <puzzlet> i don't know -- i just made it up
16:00:10 <Keymaker> there seems to be some sfunge.com
16:06:51 <puzzlet> it just came out of my head when i saw esoholic thing on the irc client
16:07:13 <puzzlet> anyway, hi, i'm from Korea
16:07:40 <Keymaker> that seems to be the most exotic location
16:07:46 <Keymaker> where this channel is accessed
16:09:09 <puzzlet> here, esoteric language fans are very rare
16:10:37 <Keymaker> well, i haven't met any others than people in internet, so maybe they aren't very popular anywhere
16:11:01 <Keymaker> (or maybe there could be some i haven't met in internet, but doesn't interest me :p)
16:11:12 <fizzie> I've met at least two in real-life too.
16:11:33 <Keymaker> in what kind of circumstances?
16:13:08 <KnX> at the 1st world esolang meeting
16:13:08 <fizzie> Going to same school/university, mostly.
16:13:13 <KnX> ( they were three )
16:15:51 <puzzlet> there was an world esolang meeting?
16:16:27 <KnX> no but could be fun
16:16:51 <KnX> but very hard to do when you have about 3 fan for a country
16:17:18 <Keymaker> but think about the world.. there are at least 20!
16:18:41 <KnX> i'd love a program when you enter a list of people + adress , and calculates ( using internet ) , the least cost place of meeting
16:19:54 -!- Keymakere has joined.
16:20:11 <puzzlet> what would you do when the program gives places like Bombay?
16:20:41 <Keymakere> anyways, pretty good idea for a program
16:32:15 <GregorR> lament: When you finish an ORK interpreter, I will give you a round of applause. Just me, individually. I'm not sure if that counts as a round... But I will anyway.
16:34:46 <GregorR> OK, we'll get a round of 2.
16:36:09 <fizzie> 20! is already 2432902008176640000.
16:36:35 <GregorR> ...........................................................?
16:37:04 <fizzie> It's only been 20 minutes!
16:37:28 <fizzie> You people with your ten-second attention spans, sheesh. (Eh... was sorta-away.)
16:38:07 -!- Keymaker has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:38:20 -!- Keymakere has left (?).
16:40:05 -!- Kmkr has joined.
16:40:23 <Kmkr> grr this connection today..
16:41:11 <GregorR> Don't you have "Keymaker" registered?
16:41:26 <Kmkr> dunno what that is
16:41:45 <Kmkr> do i write that?
16:41:47 <fizzie> Not all network use these fancy services. :p
16:42:11 <fizzie> I personally come from ircnet, which doesn't run any.
16:42:54 <GregorR> Well, I was just suggesting this for Keymaker so [s]he could reclaim his/her name.
16:43:32 <Kmkr> i try that sometime
16:43:38 <Kmkr> probably too hard for me
16:43:43 <Kmkr> i can't use it probably
16:43:55 <Kmkr> in case there is lots of stuff to adjust etc.
16:44:03 -!- Kmkr has changed nick to Keymaker.
16:49:27 <Keymaker> the rewritten hello world interpreter is now ready
16:49:46 <Keymaker> this time i used checking the 'h' from binary
16:50:37 <Keymaker> (mainly because i was too lazy to make it a few inner loops to check if the data is 104. i'll do that new version sometime later.)
16:51:51 <Keymaker> ,[[->>[>]+<[-<]<]>>[<+>-]>[<<+>>-]>[<<<+>>>-]>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]>[<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>-]>[<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>-]>[<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>-]<<<<<<<<[<[-]>[-]]<[-[-[+++++++[>+++++++++<-]>.<++++[>+++++++<-]>+.+++++++..+++.<+++++++++[>---------<-]>++.<+++++[>+++++++++++<-]>.<+++[>++++++++<-]>.+++.------.--------.[-]<++++++++++.[-]]]],]
16:52:06 <Keymaker> unless i didn't accidentally delete any character
16:52:25 <Keymaker> as well, the "Hello World" (with new-line) is far from perfect
16:52:53 <Keymaker> but i find making program to output strings in bf extremely annoying
18:06:20 -!- GregorR-L has joined.
18:06:37 <GregorR-L> Or not to pay attention in class...
18:06:48 <GregorR-L> For is it nobler that I should pretend to be interested,
18:06:57 <GregorR-L> when the teacher is unknowingly talking about Brainfuck,
18:07:15 <GregorR-L> We're discussing Turing completeness :-P
18:07:42 <Keymaker> seems really interesting subject
18:07:48 <GregorR-L> And the Universal Register Machine.
18:10:23 <Keymaker> i'll be back soon, i go to shop to by groce.. errh chocolate cookies :)
18:10:37 <kipple> btw, Gregor, have you looked at HomeSpring?
18:10:58 <kipple> it's another lang that is insanely verbose and high level
18:11:21 <kipple> though in a very different way than ORK
18:11:57 <kipple> Universe of marshy force. Field sense
18:11:57 <kipple> shallows the hatchery saying Hello,. World!.
18:11:57 <kipple> Hydro. Power spring sometimes; snowmelt
18:11:57 <kipple> powers snowmelt always.
18:12:50 <kipple> http://www.rpi.edu/~bindej/hs.html
18:13:16 <kipple> the spec is a reather funny read :)
18:20:06 <GregorR-L> "In Homespring, the null program is not quine."
18:20:11 <GregorR-L> As the output to a null program X-D
18:21:23 <kipple> "... This allows you to avoid worrying about program style and focus on what programming is really about, the reproductive behavior of salmon" :D
18:41:37 -!- Keymaker has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:07:12 -!- Deanalator has joined.
19:07:55 -!- Deanalator has left (?).
19:16:43 <GregorR-L> A 2D programming language where you draw a stack, then physically move data above it and drop it in :-P
19:16:59 <GregorR-L> So you have to navigate your program pointer above the stack, then do a "drop" operation
19:17:17 <GregorR-L> Want to tell me where/how/when/what/why to upload my page?
19:17:46 <pgimeno> I'll do for you, just tell me where to get it from.
19:18:57 <kipple> what's wrong with where it is now?
19:18:59 <pgimeno> Sorry, that's what I can offer...
19:19:31 <pgimeno> kipple: see www.cats-eye.com
19:20:15 <GregorR-L> On one hand, I have no guaranteed uptime, etc.
19:20:25 <GregorR-L> On the other hand, I have no FTP or SFTP.
19:21:10 <pgimeno> or see http://cats-eye.mb.ca
19:21:23 <kipple> did you mean : http://catseye.mine.nu:8080/
19:21:53 <pgimeno> my point is: after some time, domains are abandoned... there are some cases in which the content is also lost
19:22:05 <pgimeno> (like Ben Olmstead's Malbolge pages)
19:22:20 <pgimeno> fortunately they are in the Wayback Machine but how long?
19:22:23 <kipple> and a big problem for us esoholics...
19:22:51 <pgimeno> I'm Pedro Gimeno and I'm esoholic
19:22:59 <kipple> which is why Wikipedia is so nice (as long as people don't delete )
19:23:20 <pgimeno> Wikipedia is not the place for keeping the esolangs, IMO
19:23:41 <kipple> agreed. but I haven't seen a good alternative
19:23:54 <pgimeno> now calamari has set up an esowiki
19:23:58 <GregorR-L> The alternative is to always host in several places.
19:24:13 <kipple> graue has also set up a wiki
19:24:39 <kipple> me neither, but he was here some weeks ago and talked about it
19:24:52 <kipple> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Main_Page
19:24:56 <kipple> where is the other wiki
19:25:30 <kipple> the problem with these wiki's is that thay may disappear at any time (which is unlikely with wikipedia)
19:25:31 <pgimeno> http://esowiki.kidsquid.com
19:26:08 <kipple> that one is much better
19:26:19 <pgimeno> but then we can't abuse it just for that reason either
19:27:12 <kipple> ideally we should have some mirroring system of esolang pages. especially specifications
19:27:52 <pgimeno> I talked to calamari on the subject, he says he plans on keeping the domain for long
19:27:59 <pgimeno> that'd be an excellent idea
19:28:17 <GregorR-L> pgimeno: Do you want to have a copy of all the code, etc, as well?
19:28:20 <kipple> yes, but we can't really know taht...
19:28:45 <pgimeno> GregorR-L: yes, I'd like to
19:28:46 <kipple> I also plan to keep my domain for life, but who can really tell...
19:29:40 <pgimeno> my domain is from a company, it can be moved but never deleted
19:30:22 <kipple> and what if the company goes under? or changes it's name?
19:30:50 <kipple> we should make our own Way Back Machine to archive esoteric pages....
19:30:51 <pgimeno> yeah, that may happen; in that case the links can become obsolete but the web will keep being maintained
19:31:00 <pgimeno> I keep a copy of everything I upload
19:31:25 <fizzie> I am not planning to get rid of befunge.org ever, but obviously I can't know what'll happen.
19:31:50 <pgimeno> fizzie, ok... will it always be your machine?
19:32:31 <pgimeno> home PCs are subject to HD crashes, for example
19:32:58 <pgimeno> and who cares about backups today anyway?
19:33:04 <kipple> my server did last week, but it seems to have recovered perfectly....
19:33:47 <kipple> but the big problem isn't crashes and backups. it's people loosing interest, and discontinuing their web site
19:34:33 <pgimeno> yeah, interest in esolangs tends to happen especially among young people
19:35:06 <GregorR-L> Who then spend their entire life trying to deny it ;)
19:35:23 <kipple> it does? I have no idea of the ages of people involved in esolags (except that I know several go to school currently)
19:35:24 <fizzie> I'll probably do raid-1 mirroring on the next box, but anyway. I guess if I ever get tired of hosting befunge.org (or keeping a web server at home), I'll try to consider some alternative arrangements.
19:36:21 <pgimeno> well, in some cases (e.g. Olmstead's) they are hosted in the univ or school and disappear when they leave
19:36:41 <pgimeno> that's just a guess on my side, kipple
19:37:12 <pgimeno> fizzie, that's good to know
19:37:26 <GregorR-L> http://www.befunge.org/fyb/GregorR.zip
19:38:39 <GregorR-L> fizzie: BTW, befunge.org seems to be weirding my line breaks for some reason.
19:38:50 <fizzie> The physical location of this server is likely to change quite much. (I'm probably moving few blocks further that road) in August, and there's an upper limit of 5/6 years (of which I've used 2) for these student apartments anyway.)
19:39:07 <fizzie> There's a spurious ) on the above line.
19:39:36 <pgimeno> so it will be intermittent for some time
19:39:43 <pgimeno> intermittently online, I mean
19:39:58 <fizzie> Well, yes. Downtimes shouldn't be longer than few hours, though.
19:40:06 <fizzie> I mean, I need my IRC.
19:40:28 <pgimeno> I'm fizzie and I'm an IRCoholic
19:41:09 <GregorR-L> pgimeno: Do you have a domain or subdomain for that site, btw?
19:41:30 <pgimeno> GregorR-L: no, sorry, that's the problem I mentioned about the long URL
19:41:47 <pgimeno> all I can do is set up a redirector when I have one
19:42:07 <GregorR-L> I own that domain name, but the hosting is lame >_>
19:42:34 <GregorR-L> Very small amount of space, low bandwidth, intermittent issues.
19:42:56 <pgimeno> uhm, yeah, sounds a bit lame
19:43:23 <GregorR-L> But anyway, that's the web host, not the domain host.
19:43:29 <GregorR-L> So if you want a redirect, I can set it up.
19:44:00 <pgimeno> my problem with redirection is that I have to do it myself
19:44:32 <pgimeno> I don't have/know software for that except Apache but installing Apache sounds like too much overhead
19:45:03 <pgimeno> see e.g. http://www.formauri.com/personal/pgimeno/ <- that's a redirector I have but it can only cope with www.formauri.com
19:45:28 <pgimeno> what do you mean whether my URL changes?
19:45:33 <GregorR-L> I can set up *.codu.org to forward wherever you want.
19:45:54 <fizzie> Between ~17.7. - 16.8. me and befunge.org will both be out of this place I'm living in now, because half of the apartment buildings here are being leased/something to this "IAAF World Championships in Athletics 2005" event. I've arranged a temporary location for the box, though, and hope I'll get to move to the next semi-permanent (at-least-a-year) place at the beginning of August.
19:46:57 <pgimeno> fizzie: ok, in any case I think you'll agree that it sounds a bit unstable for a permanent esolang page...
19:47:53 <pgimeno> GregorR-L: back to the subdomain... you'll probably want to set up gregorr.codu.org or what you want
19:47:56 <fizzie> Well, yes. I don't have any cheap high-quality hosting available, though, otherwise I'd point gehennom.org there.
19:48:20 <fizzie> Heh, mixing up my domains already.
19:48:55 <pgimeno> there are some free hostings around but they're full of advertisements
19:49:13 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving").
19:49:41 <pgimeno> hm, I'll discuss the subdomain later
19:50:16 <pgimeno> there's funpic.org for example, unlimited space and php + mysql
19:51:31 <pgimeno> but personally I hate pages full of ads
19:51:34 <fizzie> Mm-hmm. I've sometimes considered buying some quality hosting space. A local-ish provider (nebula.fi) has this (1GB of space, php+stuff, 25GB/month traffic recommendation) service that'd be 15eur/month, but since I don't have any content to host, I probably won't do that until I have a Real Job or something.
19:52:16 <pgimeno> oh, yeah, that's a problem :)
19:52:42 <fizzie> I have a local outgoing traffic limit of 14GB/month here, too, but esoteric language sites aren't exactly generating huge amounts of traffic. At least until someone slashdots them. :p
19:53:25 <fizzie> Oh, whoops, actually it's 14GB/week, not /month.
19:54:40 <fizzie> (And my web-serving IP has sent out 508498033 bytes during the last 7 days, so I'm not exactly very close to the limit yet.)
19:56:04 <pgimeno> I'm paying for this hosting, but I'm afraid of using MySQL (e.g. wiki or stuff) because if I move to another ISP the database won't be moved
19:56:31 <pgimeno> well, I can back it up and stuff but I don't like that idea much
19:57:42 <fizzie> Do they let you take an SQL dump of the db? That's relatively portable.
19:59:00 <pgimeno> I think so, problem is if it crashes or for some reason I can't take a chance of backing it up before the content is lost/deleted
20:01:14 <fizzie> Mmm-hmm. (I'm really waiting for postgresql 8 to get debianized, it features an online hot-backup thing. I have a database table of 9.5 million rows that can't be replaced. I periodically burn a DVD of it, but it's always such a major operation.)
20:02:04 <pgimeno> hum, sounds good, I wasn't aware of latest pgsql advances
20:03:30 <pgimeno> anyway, manual handling of the contents is the only way I plan to handle what I host, no wiki or stuff (that's why I asked GregorR for the files to post)
20:03:55 <pgimeno> oh damn, he uses absolute URLs instead of relative links
20:11:31 <fizzie> Heh, another planned service break affecting befunge.org at "16.5.2005 klo 17.00-18.30". FUNET has a borken router, it seems.
20:12:08 <pgimeno> what is FUNET? I've used many times ftp.funet.fi but don't know what it is
20:13:48 <fizzie> Finnish University [something-or-other] NETwork. Part of NORDUNET.
20:14:06 <fizzie> "Finnish University and Research Network", apparently.
20:14:23 <fizzie> I'm not sure where the R has gone.
20:14:39 <fizzie> Maybe they didn't like the sound of "FurNet".
20:15:34 -!- Kmkr has joined.
20:15:50 -!- Kmkr has changed nick to Keymaker.
20:16:05 <pgimeno> yeah, I recognized you at first :)
20:17:00 <pgimeno> wow, an ESMTP salute, cool
20:17:46 <Keymaker> btw, where you have that big database fizzie?
20:18:15 <fizzie> Er... I'd rather not say. It's a bit stupid. More than a bit, actually.
20:18:33 <fizzie> #esoteric/2003-01.log:[2003-01-05 15:47:17] < fizzie> EHLO fizzie
20:18:33 <fizzie> #esoteric/2003-01.log:[2003-01-05 16:25:29] < fizzie> I was kind of waiting for the EHLO answer, whether he supports 8BITMIME and so on.
20:18:40 <fizzie> I've done the esmpt greeting here earlier.
20:19:28 <pgimeno> is that the content of your database? irc logs? ;)
20:19:57 <fizzie> No, no, I only have ~half a gig of those.
20:20:05 <fizzie> And they're stored as flat-files, not in a db.
20:20:14 -!- Xin_ has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)).
20:20:34 <Keymaker> GregorR: nice idea about that 2D language where you actually need to collect stuff from the stack
20:21:19 <fizzie> 580M of irclogs in non-bzip2-tarballed directories.
20:22:59 <fizzie> Oh well, the "database" is in http://darkhive.gehennom.org/ (I wouldn't normally mention the URL, but since it's only readable for Finnish-speaking people...)
20:24:56 <fizzie> Possibly. I've been writing new statistics graphs for the stats/ thing lately.
20:25:59 <fizzie> Admittedly a catastrophic database failure of _that_ material might be just a good thing.
20:27:49 <Keymaker> ah, finally i found that one track from my harddrive..
20:28:01 <Keymaker> i should convert more of my cds to mp3
20:28:17 <Keymaker> (and to note, i don't share a bit.)
20:28:51 <kipple> I recently ripped my CD collection. glad to be finished :)
20:29:25 <Keymaker> i have a big bunch of german trance :p
20:29:43 <Keymaker> (the only music they sell so cheaply ;))
20:30:35 <kipple> heh. not much of that in my shelf :)
20:31:28 <kipple> Pink Floyd, Pixies, R.E.M., Mars Volta, Radiohead, PJ Harvey etc.....
20:32:09 <Keymaker> i see. (although don't know much about their music)
20:32:21 <kipple> gotta spend some time away from the computer now. Later.
20:40:35 <pgimeno> fizzie: excuse me but the link you gave sounds to me basically like this one: http://pikachize.eye-of-newt.com/pika.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formauri.es%2F
20:48:54 <fizzie> Yes, well... ours is a rather silly little language.
20:49:50 <fizzie> Oh, I just assume it sounds silly to non-speakers.
20:50:38 <fizzie> I mean, "entgegengegangen" sounds silly to me, but I'm sure it sounds reasonable and sensible for any possible *.de people here.
20:50:40 <Keymaker> it is silly for speakers as well :p
20:52:06 <Keymaker> i got an idea that maybe esolangs need somekind of creature as well
20:52:15 <Keymaker> like there is that tux penguin
20:52:38 <Keymaker> what about something esoteric animal?
20:54:44 <fizzie> Hm. I'm not sure what would be the most esoteric animal.
20:56:04 <pgimeno> well, the pgimeno is a rather esoteric animal
20:58:00 <Keymaker> that platypus seems fun and cute
20:58:04 <fizzie> There's a platypus on the cover of my "Object-Oriented Programming" book.
20:58:43 <fizzie> I think its author (Timothy Budd) has a habit of adding one to each of his books.
20:59:38 <Keymaker> hmm. i could attempt drawing it tomorrow.
21:01:07 <fizzie> The platypus's name is Phyl.
21:02:14 <Keymaker> anyways, imho it might be fun to have some animal as esolang mascot
21:02:27 <fizzie> In this one he uses it to demonstrate an exception where a child class overrides behaviour it inherits. It's a mammal, yet it lays eggs.
21:04:01 <fizzie> I don't like the book too much, but I guess that's not Phyl's fault.
21:08:42 -!- Keymaker has quit ("Freedom!").
21:09:18 <pgimeno> I need to leave now too, see you tomorrow
21:09:47 <pgimeno> oh, for GregorR: http://www.formauri.es/personal/GregorR/
21:10:09 <pgimeno> some details have still to be pinned down but it's there already
21:37:13 <lament> Taaus: http://helios.et.put.poznan.pl/%7Edzieciol/fx/Adam_Fulara-Goldberg_no_1.avi
22:11:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
23:48:55 <Taaus> lament: Oh. My. God... That's amazing!
23:49:20 <lament> looks way harder than piano
23:50:39 <Taaus> Hehe... Well... Learn to play it on the guitar! :)
23:51:21 <lament> i don't have a guitar like that :)
23:52:17 <Taaus> Just tape two guitars together. ;)
23:52:53 <lament> i can't play that on piano anyway :)
23:53:16 <Taaus> Oop. I gotta go. Thanks for the link... I'll have to look at that movie a dozen times.