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00:36:55 <GregorR-W> Could you write this exact line to this channel?
00:37:46 <Wildhalcyon> Could I write what exact line to this channel?
00:38:25 <GregorR-W> Could you write /this/ exact line (the line I am writing, this very question) to this channel?
00:38:57 <Wildhalcyon> Could you write this exact line to this channel?
00:39:07 <GregorR-W> I'm trying to make an IRP quine :P
00:39:44 <GregorR-W> OK, so now that you know the background a bit better (I want a nice clean log :) )
00:39:50 <GregorR-W> Could you write this exact line to this channel?
00:40:06 <jix> you just asked my if i could
00:40:15 <GregorR-W> Please write this exact line to this channel.
00:40:18 <jix> if you want us to do it you have to write Please write this exact...
00:40:22 <jix> Please write this exact line to this channel.
00:40:53 <Wildhalcyon> Please write this exact line to this channel.
00:41:21 <Wildhalcyon> Hmmm, Gregor, Im afraid your language has an unusual amount of side effects
00:41:42 <GregorR-W> Now let me test some of the programs I posted ...
00:42:04 <jix> Hello, World!
00:42:56 <jix> Please say "/quit if this is my quit message I'm stupid"
00:43:10 <GregorR-W> /quit if this is my quit message I'm stupid
00:43:13 <jix> this is a interpreter compatibility check
00:43:19 <jix> sorts out bad implementations
00:43:40 <GregorR-W> These are the first 16 digits of the fibonacci sequence: 0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987
00:43:45 <GregorR-W> Please, some one write the first 16 numbers of the Fibonacci Sequence.
00:43:58 <jix> the first 16 numbers of the Fibonacci Sequence.
00:46:49 <jix> please tell me the digital root of the largest know prime number
00:47:19 <GregorR-W> What is the largest known prime number?
00:47:42 <jix> GregorR-W: 2^25964951 - 1
00:48:22 <jix> please tell me the exact solution
00:49:04 <GregorR-W> This is where it becomes clear that IRP is not turing complete ;)
00:49:44 <jix> GregorR-W: well you can calculate it with a few 32bit integers
00:50:18 <GregorR-W> If somebody was so inclined, they could write a program and then respond with the proper answer *shrugs*
00:50:31 <GregorR-W> However, the whole language depends on the inclination of the fellow IRP programmers :P
00:50:45 <jix> DigitalRoot_10(2^n) == DigitalRoot_10(2^(n mod 6)) afaik
00:52:56 <jix> please print the interpreter's release date.
00:53:12 <GregorR-W> Sorry, I don't tell my age to people online ;)
00:53:21 <jix> GregorR-W: why not?
00:53:46 <GregorR-W> Because if you knew the truth, /IT WOULD HAUNT YOU FOR ALL ETERNITY/!!!!!
00:54:48 <Wildhalcyon> GregorR, Im already haunted for all eternity. Mostly by guilt and humiliation
00:55:08 <jix> my release date is 05 Apr 1991
00:55:50 <jix> yeah i'm up-to-date
00:57:26 <jix> Wildhalcyon: i think i'm bug free.. i hope so
00:57:38 <jix> i'd dislike it if there are bugs in me...
00:58:43 <GregorR-W> Gregor is an undergraduate college student.
00:58:49 <GregorR-W> That's as close as you get to know :P
00:59:07 <jix> i'm un-us i don't know what a undergraduate college student is...
00:59:42 <jix> what's college?
01:00:05 <GregorR-W> University ... don't know other international words for it.
01:00:51 <GregorR-W> (Well, actually, college != university, but they're used almost interchangeably in most scenarios)
01:01:18 * Wildhalcyon has attended both colleges and universities
01:01:38 <GregorR-W> A university is a conglomeration of colleges (at least, in the US)
01:02:15 <GregorR-W> So PSU, my university, has a college of engineering and computer science, a college of business, a college of education, etc.
01:02:40 <GregorR-W> But the terms are nowhere near that concrete :P
01:02:57 <GregorR-W> Dern you for making me realize that particular flaw in the English language :P
01:03:35 <Wildhalcyon> its not YOUR flaw with the language, its a flaw within the language itself
01:05:08 <GregorR-W> I claim this flaw in the name of Gregor Richards!
01:05:53 <jix> please give me 1000 Euro
01:06:01 <Wildhalcyon> It shall now be known as the Gregor Richards Ambiguity
01:06:21 <jix> hmm i think this feature isn't supported by any interpreter
01:13:38 <Wildhalcyon> So Im trying to decide how to deal with functions and threads
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01:17:49 <GregorR-W> You've awakened the gazebo! It catches and eats you.
01:31:26 <jix> calculate a prime number that is larger than the largest known prime number
01:53:45 <int-e> people are already spending more computing power on that than is good for them
01:54:33 <jix> i don't know what that is.. i'm feeling stupid now... http://redhanded.hobix.com/-h/hoodwinkDDayOneForcingTheHostToAttendTheParty.html
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02:19:26 <WildHalcyon> Anyone have any suggestions for character sets to use besides ASCII and Unicode? Something a lil' more.. erm... esoteric?
02:22:27 <int-e> it's interesting to compare ebcdic and ascii, and then look at the base64 character table.
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03:32:25 <calamari> well, my automata class won't be covering lambda calculus.. not even mentioned in the book
03:34:31 <int-e> but it doesn't belong to automata theory
03:46:17 <calamari> well the class is actually about the theory of computation
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03:46:35 <int-e> it belongs to that, yes.
03:46:45 <calamari> finite automata is just a part of the class
03:47:07 <int-e> finite automata are boring. hmm. let me guess, it does stack machines and turing machines, too?
03:47:25 <int-e> stack machines = push down automata.
03:47:26 <calamari> turing machines.. not sure about stack
03:47:36 <calamari> haven't been to the first class yet
03:50:19 <calamari> topics: Deterministic finite automata, Nondeterministic finite automata, Regular expressions, Nonregular languages (Pumping Lemma), Context-free grammars, Pushdown automata, Non-context-free languages, Turing machines, Decidability, Reducibility, Complexity (P/NP/NP-c)
03:52:13 <calamari> me bends a piece of memory into two stacks.. yay
03:52:40 <calamari> at least I assume that's what a stack machine is about
03:55:52 <int-e> a pushdown automaton has only a single stack
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03:56:15 <int-e> so it's computationally weaker than a turing machine but stronger than a finite state automaton
04:29:26 <calamari> hmm. wonder if 2 queues is enough
04:30:41 <calamari> seems like a circular queue would be
04:36:26 <calamari> no, couldn't possibly be.. because then memory would be finite
04:40:14 <calamari> hmm, queues alone don't seem like they are enough, because they'd have to be finite
04:42:46 <calamari> afk.. gotta think about this some more :)
04:44:41 <calamari> yeah.. seems that a stack can be emulated with 2 queues
04:45:02 <calamari> so it'd take 4 queues to be tc?
04:57:53 <int-e> a circular queue is enough if it can grow.
04:58:33 <int-e> which is easy using the same interface as a stack - push (on one end) and pop (from the other).
04:59:01 <calamari> right... that's what I was originally thinking.. but I for some reason thought it had to be fixed size
04:59:34 <calamari> I'm trying to think about 2 growing non-circular queues
05:05:04 <calamari> a queue is easily made to be circular, so I guess it doesn't matter
05:08:32 <int-e> it's a queue. the circularity is an implementation detail. right.
05:34:24 <GregorR> Time for the Unturing Test!
05:35:41 <GregorR> You declare the Unturing Test with about 10 people (staggered over time), and attach ELIZA to 5 of them. The other 5 you communicate with, trying to emulate ELIZA. If you fool any of the 5 that you did not attach ELIZA to, you are successfully Artificially Unintelligent!
05:38:44 <int-e> Is it because I did not attach eliza to I am successfully artificially
05:38:44 <int-e> unintelligent that you came to me?
05:47:47 <GregorR> How to you feel about I did not attach eliza?
05:47:58 <int-e> lol -> Can you elaborate on that?
05:48:27 <int-e> stupid emacs doctor mode.
05:48:36 <GregorR> I wonder if you can turn MegaHAL into ELIZA...
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06:00:40 <calamari> 0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610
06:01:38 <calamari> now you can update the IRP page ;)
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06:03:25 <WildHalcyon> Your talk on queues got me thinking calamari
06:03:47 <calamari> glad someone is.. not sure I am tonight :)
06:04:16 <WildHalcyon> Im just pondering other potential data structures that could be used
06:05:59 <WildHalcyon> I broke out my Data Structures book from undergrad to take a look at other options
06:06:56 * calamari hides from WildHalcyon's B-Tree
06:07:24 <WildHalcyon> you think a B-Tree is the worst up my sleeve?
06:08:29 * nooga wonders how's tokigun going with SADOL interpreter ;>
06:09:16 <WildHalcyon> right now, Im debating between a treap, a k-d tree, and a pairing heap
06:10:03 <WildHalcyon> hmm... fibonacci heaps seem pretty neat too
06:10:48 <WildHalcyon> Treaps are cool because they could be used to implement a sort of "bag" data structure
06:11:06 <WildHalcyon> You can put stuff in, but every time you pull something out, its random.
06:11:49 <WildHalcyon> Basically, its a stack with a push operation and a pop which pops randomly from the bag. Nice and nondeterministic
06:15:49 <WildHalcyon> Im not sure if it counts as being TC, because you're never GUARANTEED to get the result you want
06:32:04 <nooga> what are k-d trees?
06:34:57 <calamari> A way to hold two types of data and search for a combo of both
06:36:42 <calamari> the rows alternate between the two types.. i.e. when deciding which goes left and which goes right underneath it
06:37:59 <WildHalcyon> Right, essentially, a 2-d tree has two types, a 3-d tree has three types to search among, etc.
06:38:24 <calamari> so if the types are A and B.. the root would be based on A.. so if you had (A-1,4) it'd go left, (A+1,4) goes right. But, now.. the 2nd row is based on B.. so if B>4 go right, otherwise left
06:38:40 <calamari> hope that makes some kind of sense.. I have no really studied these trees :)
06:40:35 <WildHalcyon> That's pretty much it. At each level of the binary tree, sort based on different types of data
06:41:47 <calamari> hmm.. lets say BST bf... you'd have left/right/up
06:43:14 <calamari> but you'll also want to be able to manipulate the tree
06:46:34 <calamari> nah.. who cares if it's balanced :)
06:57:20 <calamari> hmm, maybe it's just been too long since data structures, but it doesn't seem like trees and arrays really mix, unless it's a non-bst
06:58:12 <nooga> how to say 'without any arguments' in one word?
07:02:32 <calamari> seems like there is a special word to describe that for asm intructions, but I can't think of it
07:04:28 <nooga> then i'll use 'argumentless'
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08:32:46 <nooga_> SADOL's homepage is almost done
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13:30:05 <nooga> r u there tokigun?
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14:12:46 <Keymaker> nooga: good to hear SADOL's page is almost done
14:13:00 <Keymaker> i checked the 'pre-version' or something; seemed interesting
14:18:49 <Keymaker> GregorR: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987
14:19:18 <GregorR> Wow, that program took a long time to run.
14:24:27 <Keymaker> i think i'll add my Unnecessary to joke languages list
14:28:20 <Keymaker> what is good word for 'source code'?
14:28:44 <GregorR> "source code" is an excellent word (OK, phrase) for "source code" :-P
14:30:01 <GregorR> If it wasn't 6:30AM here, I might be able to think of one.
14:30:34 <Keymaker> well, better get to work then >:)
14:32:23 <Keymaker> :) well, i guess i use 'program file' then
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16:58:59 <GregorR-W> Have I left this logged in all night?
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17:36:08 <jix> moin nooga
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17:48:12 <nooga> jix: i guess you're using apple computer huh?
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18:05:07 <jix> nooga: mac os x 10.4
18:07:01 <jix> but i used at least one version of all mayor versions starting with 7 (7.x,8.x,9.x,10.0.x,10.1.x,10.2.x,10.3.x,10.4.x)
18:07:16 <jix> nooga: why do you ask?
18:07:38 <nooga> ist's kinda exotic
18:07:56 <nooga> once i even wanted to buy a Mac Mini
18:08:30 <jix> it has poor graphic performance
18:08:54 <jix> to get all the osx eye-candy you need a better graphic card than the one of the mini
18:09:32 <jix> the mini graphic card has no core-image acceleration support
18:10:19 <nooga> i thought that the mini has got radeon 9200
18:10:42 <jix> hmm radeon 9200 is maybe too old for core-image acceleration
18:12:23 <jix> core image makes intensive use of fragment-shaders (the basic effects of the UI don't use them but the dashboard widget drop effect does)
18:16:04 <nooga> i've got nVidia gf4 MX 440 in my PC ;p
18:16:15 <jix> hmm is that good?
18:18:14 <jix> do you know that drop-in effect?
18:18:19 <jix> from dashboard
18:19:29 <jix> i made a video (mpeg 4) it's a bit slow because of screen recording
18:19:31 <jix> http://rapidshare.de/files/4292460/dropin.mp4.html
18:19:38 <jix> click on free and the download should start...
18:20:50 <jix> you have to wait a few seconds..
18:25:59 <jix> GregorR: my old gf2mx worked great too
18:26:07 <jix> i just missed this drop-in effect
18:26:48 <jix> and 80% of the quartz-composer effects (a developer tool for effect composition but i don't know any app that uses this)
18:27:30 <jix> and i can play games on higher resolutions now...(ati radeon 9800pro) *g*
18:29:43 <jix> nooga: do you have quicktime?
18:30:01 <jix> version 6 or newer?
18:30:18 <jix> video lan client works too
18:31:58 <GregorR-W> You people and your visual effects.
18:32:14 <jix> GregorR-W: *g*
18:32:23 <GregorR-W> How could that effect possibly be useful :P
18:32:43 <jix> GregorR-W: there is a simple answer...
18:33:07 <jix> GregorR-W: it wasn't meant to be useful.. it was meant to make windows user think "WOW LOL OMG! I want to have THAT!"
18:33:10 <nooga> i run windows without any effects :>
18:33:22 <nooga> i've got XP, but it looks like nt 4 :p
18:34:05 <nooga> MacOS X looks eyecandy
18:34:15 <jix> i have no problem with the effects because mac os x uses hw accelerated blitting for everything.. makes no difference if there is an alpha channel or not...
18:34:23 <nooga> i helped to develop SenseOS
18:35:00 <nooga> we wanted to make OpenGL GUI and make it look even better than MAcOS X ;p
18:35:11 <nooga> but the project has died
18:35:22 <jix> but someday i take 20 arm or ppc or custom processors and build my own computer with my own os ...
18:35:48 <nooga> currently we have GUI on VESA with complete API that looks exactly like BeAPI
18:35:57 <nooga> and some ports from unix
18:36:13 <jix> i don't know polish... can't read that...
18:37:04 <nooga> coreutils, binutils, makeutils, gcc, perl, bash, nano, mc, irssi, elinks etc etc.
18:37:26 <jix> nooga: i googled for SenseOS
18:37:40 <nooga> ah, it's completely dead
18:37:48 <jix> it has font anti-alliasing
18:37:49 <nooga> maybe i've got some screens
18:38:00 <jix> i've got some...
18:38:11 <jix> http://agentj.risp.pl/?Projekty:SenseOS:Screenshoty
18:38:57 <nooga> and freetype support ;p
18:42:12 <nooga> but it's f*in dead
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19:17:08 <nooga> http://nooga.int.pl/sadol/index.php
19:34:01 <nooga> pleeez say something
19:38:33 <nooga> say that you finished it !
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22:16:29 <jix> be careful with recursive forks
22:16:38 <WildHalcyon> As Ive mentioned more than is good for me, I'm creating a Funge-derivative which uses separate topological spaces for different functions, and each is given a label
22:17:32 <WildHalcyon> Im trying to think of a way in which to assign a cell to multiple function spaces simultaneously
22:20:19 <WildHalcyon> (reading the SNUSP spec again) Is it just me, or is there something... enchanting... about seeing the f-bomb dropped in what looks like an academic paper?
22:41:53 <jix> people should learn to use pdf(la)?tex
22:42:52 <jix> those =>dvi=>pdf things have no pdf specific features like links in the Contents and arn't nice on the screen
22:43:02 <jix> =>dvi=>ps=>pdf is even worse...
22:45:41 <jix> that is no fun!
22:46:32 <jix> this snusp sepc pdf is really fucked up
22:46:53 <jix> i select text.. copy it... and get %/]||]01}“¶}≠¶|¢ alike things...
22:51:33 <jix> made my own pdf out of the textfile
22:52:20 <nooga> wanna see a funny pic ;p ?
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22:53:44 <nooga> look, o'reilly has released a book about SADOL: http://nooga.int.pl/sadol/sadol.jpg
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22:56:28 <calamari> well, definitely to lambda calculus.. asked hte instructor and he said No :)
23:10:38 * nooga likes manipulations with photoshop :>
23:13:52 <WildHalcyon> fyi nooga, the word you're looking for is "painful"
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23:27:55 <nooga> WildHalcyon: but say, you like that cover
23:28:21 <calamari> nooga: ever find a better word than argumentless ?
23:29:08 <calamari> maybe that wasn't you.. sorry :)
23:29:40 <nooga> i just wrote 'argumentless'
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23:35:58 <WildHalcyon> Nooga, its alright... the fact that half the girl's head is cut off bothers me a bit
23:36:26 <nooga> i tried to find other
23:37:25 <nooga> but that one was the best: http://images.google.com/images?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Apl-PL%3Aofficial_s&q=dominatrix&hl=pl&btnG=Szukaj+obraz%C3%B3w ;p
23:45:55 <WildHalcyon> There was no way to reposition her on the cover though?
23:57:38 <nooga> what a stupid joke
23:57:52 <nooga> making false book covers :>