00:00:24 <ihope> (Should I call it Encyclopedia to annoy people like calling it Wiki annoys me? :-P)
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03:45:30 <lament> i have never seen anyone refer to the wikipedia as "wiki"
03:47:17 <pikhq> I've referred to it as *a* wiki, though. . .
03:47:28 <pikhq> (which, of course, it is)
03:49:16 <GregorR> Whenever somebody generically calls it "wiki" I stab them.
03:55:40 <pikhq> Bah. Violence over IP.
03:55:45 <pikhq> We'll call it VoIP.
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04:10:03 <Figs> holy crap, have you guys seen this?
04:10:03 <Figs> http://www.luckywhitegirl.com/2005/11/medium_rare_ele.html
04:10:27 <Figs> seriously, keeping the computer in the over *tsk tsk*
04:16:06 <Figs> *ding fries are done...*
04:18:35 <pikhq> Remarkably stupid.
04:18:50 <Figs> http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/09/strip_out_the_fans/
04:19:01 * pikhq would never trust her with anything more complex than an abacus ever again
04:20:29 <pikhq> "Can't find tomshardware.com"
04:20:35 <pikhq> Hmm. That was odd.
04:21:26 <Figs> yes, let's stick our PC into 8 gallons of cooking oil!
04:22:55 <pikhq> That's not exactly a new cooling system. . .
04:23:08 <Figs> it still looks like wtf
04:23:09 <pikhq> I believe some of the Crays were cooled in oil.
04:23:23 <pikhq> (highly filtered motor oil, but still)
04:23:51 <Figs> it just seems counter intuitive to me to dip your expensive hardware in cooking oil
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04:24:01 <Figs> it makes sense on one level but on the other, "WTF"
04:24:25 <pikhq> I don't think the *vegetable* oil would be a good idea; it could easily go rancid, after all.
04:24:36 <Figs> That reminds me of that deep fat fryer that doubled as a fish tank
04:24:49 <pikhq> Honestly. . . Do you *want* a rancid computer? :p
04:24:58 <Figs> Might keep theives from taking it
04:25:04 <Figs> "Eww, this computer is gross"
04:25:13 <Figs> "Let's take the TV instead, Ned"
04:25:28 <pikhq> "You mean the one that's inside that fish tank?"
04:25:50 <Figs> (Would you like an apple pie with that? *ding fries are done*)
04:26:36 <Figs> do you think this would void your warrenty if something broke?
04:26:56 <pikhq> BTW, Toms Hardware's website sucks balls.
04:27:01 <Figs> "Yes sir, I dipped my PC in cooking oil and your graphics card stopped working."
04:27:18 <cherez> That's a cruel thing to say about balls.
04:27:44 <pikhq> You're right; balls are too good for Toms Hardware.
04:28:13 <Figs> now we need to find a computer that runs better hot
04:28:22 <Figs> so it can double as a deep-fat fryer
04:29:00 <Figs> not only can you play your video games, but you can make french fries at the same time!
04:29:11 <Figs> just keep the fish tank under it :P
04:29:23 <Figs> mmm, that'd be weird
04:29:33 <Figs> fish tank oil/water computer
04:30:40 <Figs> great way to freak out your roomies ;p
04:30:54 <Figs> "WTF IS THAT THING?!"
04:30:58 <Figs> "It's my computer/fish tank"
04:36:44 <Sukoshi`> Obviously. Tom's Hardware is for gamers.
04:36:57 <pikhq> Sukoshi`: It's for people that like an article on 11 pages.
04:37:14 <pikhq> My preferred 'rig' involves more computing power than I could ever possibly need. . .
04:37:23 <pikhq> And keeping it until I actually *do* need more.
04:37:46 <bsmntbombdood> i hate that split-the-article-up-into-paragraphs-on-seppereate-pages shit
04:37:49 <Sukoshi`> That's not the Gamer Way though.
04:38:03 <pikhq> It's the sane way.
04:38:38 <pikhq> (the sane way also ends up using a 3-5 year old computer, and thinking "What, you guys are having lower performance on better boxes?")
04:38:44 <pikhq> Mmm. . . Gentoo. . .
04:39:36 <pikhq> Too easy to poke fun at Vista.
04:40:06 <Figs> reading about quantum computers make my head hurt :P
04:40:17 <Figs> http://www.ams.org/featurecolumn/archive/quantum-one.html
04:41:25 <Figs> I need to do more math :P
04:41:39 <Figs> two months and I've already forgotten so much
04:41:48 <Figs> damn ye, summer!
04:44:29 <Sukoshi`> I never understood the gamer philosophy at all.
04:44:36 <Sukoshi`> But then *shrug* most programmers probably don't.
04:44:57 <Figs> "Gamer Philosophy"?
04:45:30 <Figs> I usually don't
04:45:36 <Figs> but I've been playing a lot lately
04:45:59 <Figs> Cave Story, La-Mulana, A Game with a Kitty, etc
04:46:11 <Figs> Within a Deep Forest, Knytt...
04:46:45 <pikhq> My idea of good games involves an emulator. . .
04:47:20 <Figs> Seiken Densetsu 3 Secret of Mana!
04:47:35 <Figs> CronoTrigger? :P
04:48:10 <Figs> *starts humming Frog's Theme*
04:49:30 <Figs> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070806/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_germany_pencil
04:49:45 <Figs> seriously, what the bloody fuck?!
04:50:05 <Figs> 51 years with... geez
04:50:26 <Figs> how did I get 51? :S
04:53:40 <Figs> I have a really crazy idea
04:53:52 <Figs> for a game engine
04:54:09 <Sukoshi`> But mostly when my creative faculties don't work.
04:54:19 <Figs> It'd need my parser library... and I'd have to write two more libraries at least
04:54:56 <Figs> a file handler lib using the parser library, and a "database" lib using the other two
04:55:30 <Figs> *points out the word _engine_*
04:55:54 <pikhq> Yacc, STL, and a SQL.
04:56:02 <Sukoshi`> ... How is that any different from the hundreds of other C++ game engines out there? :P
04:56:39 <Figs> pikhq, more like Yacc, XML/DTD++, SQL inline
04:57:06 <Figs> the trick isn't so much that it'd be a game engine, in fact, it wouldn't be
04:57:09 <pikhq> I fail to see how XML handles *files*.
04:57:27 <Figs> that's where the ++ comes in
04:57:33 <Sukoshi`> So, it's a game engine that's not a game engine?
04:57:36 <Figs> using a meta-language to describe the contents of files
04:58:15 <Sukoshi`> Yet another Descriptive Idea from Figs.
04:58:24 <Sukoshi`> Hm. Is there any portal on the web where people propose OSS projects?
04:59:04 <Figs> Sukoshi` -- build one on google
04:59:11 <Figs> you have everything you need to do it
04:59:31 <Figs> Google.Code, Google.Groups, Google.Mail, Goole.Page(? can't remember the real name... is that it?)
04:59:38 <Sukoshi`> I've never done web programming, but I should.
04:59:55 <Sukoshi`> In fact, it would be a very convenient starting project.
05:00:03 <Sukoshi`> Any takers? I'll probably be writing it in Python.
05:00:24 <Figs> I'd be interested if I didn't have a couple dozen projects already
05:00:28 <Figs> and if I knew python :P
05:00:44 <Sukoshi`> I have yet to learn Python meself, but I hear that the core is very minimal.
05:00:52 <Figs> seriously though, I like this idea because it's a way to kill two birds with one stone
05:00:56 <Sukoshi`> Minimal enough that one can learn the language as one codes.
05:01:04 <Figs> it gives me a good reason to finish my insane parser library
05:01:28 <pikhq> But not because of the Python bit. . .
05:01:43 * pikhq went from "know nothing" to "able to do some hacking in it" in about 5 minutes
05:01:51 <Figs> you could be the first to figure out how to write a site in BrainFuck
05:01:53 <pikhq> Well, that's one thing.
05:02:02 <Figs> or has it been done?
05:02:06 <Sukoshi`> Dunno what's wrong with web programming.
05:02:07 <pikhq> It's obvious what to do.
05:02:25 <pikhq> Just make a Brainfuck HTTPD which runs from inetd.
05:02:44 <Figs> Do it, Do it, Do it, Do it, Do it...!
05:04:02 <Figs> wow, I wonder what it'd look like to look at the server-side source for a BF webpage...
05:06:51 <lament> Sukoshi`: what kind of web programming though, simple cgi or using some advanced framework?
05:07:09 <lament> because the former is a gigantic pain in the butt, and the latter involves learning way more than just the "core"
05:08:11 <Sukoshi`> I wanna stick to simple CGI, unless you want to use a framework.
05:08:19 <Sukoshi`> Because frameworks, IMO, are more annoying.
05:08:55 <lament> well, be prepared then, cgi is pretty awful
05:09:18 <Sukoshi`> But learning a framework is learning something that's simple-paradigm.
05:10:02 <Sukoshi`> I mean, this project isn't *that* complicated. We'll just be managing project proposals, proposal creators, proposal accepters, and maybe stuff like dates and categories.
05:10:17 <Sukoshi`> Most of it will bepend on a DB and basic HTML generation.
05:10:19 <lament> python is a very pleasant language though
05:31:57 <cherez> It's like the spa retreat of programming.
05:32:03 <Figs> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Rule+36
05:33:10 <Figs> wtf is "flrrd"?
05:36:34 <Figs> go replace every instance of the word "Fuck" in a forum post with "QUACK"
05:36:39 <Figs> it makes for unusual reading
05:36:47 <Figs> Go QUACK yourself.
05:37:00 <Figs> (BrainQUACK anyone? :S)
05:38:07 <lament> replacing words with other words commonly reads to unusual readings.
05:38:41 <Figs> I read an entire story where the F word had been censored to say "Gently caress"
05:38:52 <Figs> it took me a while to realize it wasn't just the author being quirky
05:39:04 <Figs> (forum censoring software... joy :P)
05:39:08 <lament> how do you say motherfucker then?
05:39:16 <lament> mothergently caresser?
05:39:25 <Figs> mothergently caress?
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05:50:19 <RodgerTheGreat> "Holy loving poo-poo. Gently caress me." -> "Holy fucking shit- fuck me."
05:50:49 <Figs> I think it was the SomethingAwful forums, but I don't know
05:50:57 <Figs> Might have been elsewhere
05:50:57 <RodgerTheGreat> lament: different forms of "fuck" generally map to different words
05:51:15 <RodgerTheGreat> I've spent a fair amount of time slowly learning to decode their replacements
05:51:31 <Figs> it was the Streetsweeper's Tale
05:51:52 <Figs> don't ask me how many times I've fucked that one up and said SweetStreeper's Tale
05:52:09 <Figs> I can't begin to guess.
05:52:49 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm not a forum member, but I like reading threads there when I'm bored
05:52:50 <Figs> I don't usually go there
05:52:53 <Figs> so I don't remember
05:52:53 <lament> RodgerTheGreat: but "fuck" itself could be a noun or a verb
05:53:15 <Figs> Gently Caress, batman!
05:53:29 <Figs> did they have a replacement for shit?
05:53:32 <RodgerTheGreat> the places the replacement doesn't fit in well are how you can start to crack the code
05:53:34 <Figs> I can't remember
05:54:02 <Figs> sockpuppet a guide?
05:54:24 <Figs> C-rap = crap, F-uck = fuck, S-hit = shit ... etc
05:56:21 <Sukoshi`> I hope Python is nice. I've Rubied, and it just feels like ... wannabe Smalltalk.
05:56:36 <lament> then you might not enjoy python as much :)
05:56:53 <lament> it's a lot less of a wannabe smalltalk, but it's not very different from ruby
05:56:57 <lament> it doesn't have blocks, though.
05:57:08 <RodgerTheGreat> I could whip up a PHP-based BF interpreter for BF CGI. I think that'd be easier than python.
05:57:21 <lament> instead all functions are first-class and you can pass them freely; there's no extra sugar
05:57:22 <Sukoshi`> Well, Ruby uses a lot of Smalltalk-ish features, especially blocks, that irk me in their obvious lack of power.
05:57:47 <lament> also, python has list comprehensions <3
05:58:21 <Sukoshi`> I previewed Perl over vacation, and it seemed quite nice, albeit the OOP seemed downright cryptic, and its overreliance on $, %, and @ is bleh.
05:58:46 <Sukoshi`> I totally grok the concept of using references in data structures too, because it's a C thing.
05:59:47 <Sukoshi`> The one major irk I had with my Python previewing was the forced indentation ... I've encountered enough Haskell situations where I fume because the indentation has caused me trouble where I've come to prefer brace syntax.
06:01:18 <Sukoshi`> Hopefully Emacs's python-mode is more mature than haskell-mode :P
06:02:27 <Sukoshi`> One last question as I continue my SAT studying: Is there a reason people constantly use SQL instead of writing, say, a database in Python, or C/++/Java if Python is too slow?
06:03:08 <Figs> I was just talking about writing a database in C++
06:03:49 <Figs> Don't expect mine to scale *too much*... it's not a goat, fish, or scientist.
06:06:48 <lament> Sukoshi`: explicit references are probably the biggest turn-off from perl for me
06:07:01 <bsmntbombdood> Sukoshi`: emacs handles python's indentation just fine, because it's a lot simpler than haskell's
06:07:02 <lament> Sukoshi`: python's indentation is somehow saner than haskell's
06:07:23 <lament> Sukoshi`: there's no that "beginning of next lexeme" junk, you just continue on the next line and tabulate
06:08:03 <lament> i suppose you could do that in haskell, too, but somehow everybody doesn't.
06:08:55 <Figs> hmm... I wonder
06:09:09 <Sukoshi`> Well, explicit references are pretty useful for efficiency, methinks.
06:09:16 <lament> Sukoshi`: i don't see how
06:09:21 <Sukoshi`> Although I would prefer an explicit value language rather.
06:09:22 <Figs> how would a language without an "if" keyword be?
06:09:26 <Figs> like, you use ? instead
06:09:29 <lament> Sukoshi`: either you access the reference, in which case you have to access it anyway.
06:09:37 <lament> Sukoshi`: or you don't access it, in which case you don't access it.
06:09:39 <Figs> foo? {bar} else {blah}
06:09:43 <lament> doesn't matter if it's explicit or not
06:10:03 <Figs> *put in spaces where appropriate
06:10:12 <Sukoshi`> Well, if you have loops where you access something hundreds or thousands of times, you may want to have the value is a variable waiting, rather than in a reference.
06:11:05 <Sukoshi`> That's why I'd prefer explicit value, that way in the cases where efficiency is needed, the value is explicitly stored, elsewise the reference is stored and looked up.
06:13:31 <Figs> that'd be interesting, but somehow, I think I've gotten myself too engrained with the C++ way of think that I'd fuck it up :P
06:13:50 <Figs> or at least _gently caress_ it up :P
06:14:10 * Figs starts doing pinky push-ups...
06:14:21 <lament> Sukoshi`: ah, but that's only possible for a limited set of primitive types for which you can have something OTHER than a reference.
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06:14:32 <lament> Sukoshi`: and python already does that for them.
06:15:28 <lament> Sukoshi`: and a difference of one C-level pointer resolution is really not something you should worry about in a very high-level garbage-collected language.
06:18:57 <lament> and the gain in elegance is enormous
06:19:10 <lament> instead of all those sigils, you just have one type of object
06:19:26 <lament> (like smalltalk and ruby)
06:22:52 <Figs> something about macros just clicked in my head
06:23:27 <Figs> I just realized how neat it'd be if I could write something to make
06:24:02 <Figs> stringify { foo " is a " blahtype }
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06:24:17 <Figs> instead of having to do
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06:24:32 <Figs> foo << " is a " << blahtype
06:26:38 <Figs> Sigil (Computer Programming) from wikipedia claims
06:26:40 <Figs> "In Fortran, all variables starting with the letters I, J, K, L, M and N are integers although Fortran refers to this as "implicit typing". (This is the source of the long tradition of using "i", "j", "k" etc as the loop indexes of "for loops" in many programming languagesfew of which have implicit typing)."
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06:29:33 <Figs> http://image.bayimg.com/cafmnaabf.jpg
06:40:40 <Figs> wow, I just realized how bad I am at shading
07:10:57 <Sukoshi`> Well, I always thought the programming `i' originates from math's summation notation?
07:12:40 <pikhq> That would be *why* Fortran had i through n as integers.
07:38:23 <Figs> totally wasted the evening again!
07:39:47 <Figs> very very very off topic, but wtf: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/08/06/worst-excuse-ever/
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10:36:04 <oklofok> though interpreters most are
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10:38:40 <oklofok> but one yourself can you make, easy is it like a pie
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10:45:22 <Feuermonster> I thought, I could translate it to C++ and compile it (extern) with a very small C++ Compiler.
10:45:37 <Feuermonster> But til now, i did not find a small c++ compiler.
10:46:48 <oklofok> the small ones are the best
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15:16:43 <ehird`> i have had a `cat /dev/urandom` scan recently
15:24:56 <SimonRC> The hard part to doing a cat scan is getting the cat to lie still on the scanner and not scratch the glass
15:27:16 <SimonRC> that would damage the scanner
15:27:28 <GregorR> http://www.choosemyhat.com/ ... DO IT! IT'S COOOOL!
15:29:49 <ehird`> <SimonRC> The hard part to doing a cat scan is getting the cat to lie still on the scanner and not scratch the glass <-- i have an overwhelming urge to put this on bash
15:30:14 <ehird`> well, and the two following messages
15:31:21 <RodgerTheGreat> the mods at bash suck. They've turned down all of the greatest quotes my friends and I have submitted
15:31:38 <ehird`> repeat that conversation with "gay nigga" in
15:32:16 <ehird`> <SimonRC> The hard part to doing a cat scan is getting the cat to lie still on the scanner and not scratch the glass
15:32:17 <ehird`> <RodgerTheGreat> SimonRC: this is why staple-guns were invented
15:32:17 <ehird`> <SimonRC> that would damage the scanner
15:32:38 <SimonRC> GregorR: How did Do not Put the Baby start?
15:33:55 * SimonRC imagines GregorR tuning up a Ukelele
15:35:06 <ehird`> Do not put the baby in the fantastic song
15:35:40 <RodgerTheGreat> I did this one: http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Pixel
15:36:21 <ehird`> i wrote lyrics, give me much moneys http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1186497006.html
15:37:02 <ehird`> actually i should just use the list of ones already on the site
15:42:15 <ehird`> http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1186497363.html okay!
15:42:35 <ehird`> that should last about 6-7 minutes..
15:43:11 <RodgerTheGreat> now, see if you can't rephrase it into something resembling regular meter or rhyme.
15:43:30 <ehird`> i could end every sentence with "voodoo"
15:43:48 <ehird`> Do not put the baby in the algebraic expression voodoo
15:43:54 <ehird`> Do not put the baby in the invisible box voodoo
15:44:02 <ehird`> Do not put the baby in the toilet voodoo
15:44:30 <RodgerTheGreat> if I were writing this, I'd make some kind of introductory segment that roughly explains what the song is about
15:46:46 <ehird`> http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1186497634.html done! :p
15:47:51 <RodgerTheGreat> GregorR: I think ehird` could benefit from some lyrical advice
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16:07:34 <SimonRC> GregorR: it seems that some acquatences of mine are helping your with your hat choice.
16:21:29 <GregorR> Wow, that's a lot of votes all of a sudden.
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16:30:12 <ihope> We get to choose GregorR's hat?
16:32:31 <ihope> I bet he'd be even more willing to wear custom hats if they were given rather than merely suggested to him.
16:33:51 <GregorR> [no leather, no coarse straw]
16:34:42 <ihope> main = do vote velvetHat; changeIPAdress; main
16:36:22 <ihope> I'm sure it's possible to change those things, seeing as how they occasionally change by themselves and I think I used to think I knew how to do it.
16:36:58 <SimonRC> disconnect and reconnect might work
16:37:11 <ihope> Yes, disconnect and reconnect might work.
16:37:17 <ihope> How would IPv6 do it?
16:37:41 <ihope> And why do I seem to still be using IPv4?
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16:39:13 <SimonRC> with IPv6 your ISP would give you 18446744073709551616 IP addresses
16:39:45 <SimonRC> that is a nice number to chant
16:39:59 <ihope> What's its log base 2?
16:41:01 <SimonRC> "1 8 4 4 // 6 7 4 4 // 0 7 // 3 7 // 0 9 // 5 5 // 1 6 // 1 6"
16:41:16 <SimonRC> I memorised it a while ago
16:42:06 <ihope> 3.14 159 265 35 8797, is it?
16:42:42 <SimonRC> sounds like a frikkin' insurance company phone number
16:43:17 <ihope> Whoa, it's, like, angles measured in degrees.
16:43:46 * SimonRC recalls the advert with the owl on it and the number ending "28 28 20" :-P
16:44:15 <ihope> I want to mentally calculate pi.
16:44:28 <ihope> Obviously, that probably requires a space-efficient algorithm.
16:45:17 <ihope> Darn our "practical" memory systems. Our distant ancestors didn't need to calculate pi mentally, so we can't.
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16:48:32 <ihope> Oh, isn't this a wonderful formula for pi? http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/d/6/c/d6cb2a82b42bc60c89ed0987778bcd47.png
16:48:52 <ihope> I'll just memorize that and use it.
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16:52:09 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: from memory?
16:52:24 <ihope> You're a nerd for having memorized it farther than 3.141592653589793238462643383279.
16:53:25 <SimonRC> but you don't know useful tthings like 2^0--2^16, 2^32, and 2^64
16:53:39 <SimonRC> or the mean number of days in a year (calculated that in my head)
16:53:59 <SimonRC> mean number of *weeks* in a year
16:54:51 <SimonRC> this means that the cycle of weekdays repeats every 400 years
16:55:08 <SimonRC> which means that some are more likely in various positions of the year than others are
16:55:08 <ihope> 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192.
16:55:31 <ihope> 16384, 32768, 65536!
16:55:50 <ihope> That one I don't know.
16:55:59 <SimonRC> 4294967296 = 2 * 2147483648
16:56:18 <SimonRC> and of course 2^64 = 18446744073709551616
16:56:21 <ihope> And about 16 billion billion. :-)
16:56:30 <ihope> Though apparently more like 18 billion billion.
16:56:44 <SimonRC> there needs to be a name for that...
16:56:58 <SimonRC> like kilo-inflation or something
16:57:34 <SimonRC> the way that powers of 2^10 diverge from the corresponding powers of 10^3
16:57:50 * SimonRC has to go shopping now :-(
16:58:23 <ihope> Well, the ratio grows exponentially.
16:58:36 <ihope> Pff. I have a handy little tool that helps me remember the alphabet.
16:58:46 <ihope> Here it is: QWERTYUIOPASDFGHJKLZXCVBNM
16:59:21 <RodgerTheGreat> ihope: it seems like a good idea to keep something with that list on your desk, for quick reference
16:59:50 <ihope> I usually use a laptop. It tends to move around.
17:00:54 <pikhq> --[+++++>->++<<]>----->[--<.+>] This is a little tool *I* use to remember the alphabet. :p
17:01:03 <ihope> I also know... um... the two last digits of Graham's number.
17:01:28 <ihope> In ternary, 00! >:-)
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17:02:52 <pikhq> Everyone, put on the NSFW faces!
17:06:06 <asiekierka> Not Safe For Not Safe For Asiekierka WorShipeRS
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17:16:45 <ihope> Okay, to find the last two digits of Graham's number, you need to take it mod 100...
17:18:17 -!- helios24_ has changed nick to helios24.
17:22:05 <ehird`> ihope: too suspenseful! just tell us the digits! :P
17:28:21 <ihope> And mod 7, and mod 1.
17:29:34 <ihope> Congruent to 42, mod 14, then.
17:30:40 <ehird`> 27*1.56 is roughly 42!
17:30:50 -!- jix_ has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
17:36:14 <ehird`> now give me significance of 14/9 :p
17:36:32 <ihope> It's a perfect square.
17:36:56 <ehird`> Aha! And backwards that is 234!
17:37:00 <ehird`> And ... 1 sucks, or something!
17:37:13 <ihope> Er, 14/9 = 1, 4, 9!
17:37:21 <ehird`> So 27*14/9 = 42 = the answer to life, the universe and everything
17:37:23 <ihope> Which is the square of 1, 2, 3!
17:37:37 <ehird`> g_64 contains the story of the universe!
17:37:46 <ehird`> or rather, everything up to the last two digits is the question
17:37:53 <ehird`> and it's encoded in a format related to 14/9!
17:38:59 <ihope> 40 = 2 * 5 * 4, so phi(40) = 1 * 4 * 4 = 16.
17:40:47 <ihope> G mod 100 = 3^G mod 100 = 3^(G mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^G mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(G mod 16) mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^G mod 16) mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^(G mod 8) mod 16) mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^(3^G mod 8) mod 16) mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^(3^(G mod 4) mod 8) mod 16) mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^(3^(3^G mod 4) mod 8) mod 16) mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^(3^(3^(G mod 2) mod 4) mod 8) mod 16) mod...
17:40:49 <ihope> ...40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^(3^(3^1 mod 4) mod 8) mod 16) mod 40) mod 100
17:41:04 <ihope> ...and the last equation, 3^(3^(3^(3^(3^1 mod 4) mod 8) mod 16) mod 40) mod 100, is the important one.
17:41:51 <ihope> (G = 3^G modulo any small enough number, where "small enough" means "much larger than 3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3".)
17:43:24 <ihope> 3^1 mod 4 is 3; 3^3 mod 8 is 3; 3^3 mod 16 is 11; 3^11 mod 40 is 27; 3^27 mod 100 is 87.
17:43:33 <ihope> So I was wrong: the last two digits are 87.
18:00:08 <ihope> I've heard that "6 * 9 = 42" was chosen arbitrarily.
18:00:46 <ehird`> but all real conspiracy theorists know that 6 * 9 = 42_13
18:03:15 <ihope> 6 * 9 = 42 modulo 6.
18:03:30 <ihope> That is, 6 * 7 = 6 * 9 modulo 6.
18:04:05 <ihope> Modulo 6, 6 = 0, therefore 6 * 7 = 0 * 7 and 6 * 9 = 0 * 9.
18:04:16 <ihope> 42 is really 0! Oh noes!
18:04:20 <ehird`> ok, everything for some random amount of time from now on is an improvised play
18:04:38 <ehird`> yes, i see this is going very well
18:04:47 <ihope> Um... how are you, then?
18:04:53 <ehird`> I am fine. How are your chickens?
18:05:04 <ihope> Dead, unfortunately.
18:05:23 <ehird`> You're meant to say "Fine", and then I tell you "Aha! That is where you are wrong - FOR THEY ARE DEAD!"
18:05:30 <ehird`> And then you say "What? But how?" and I say "I killed them!"
18:05:32 <ihope> Um, they're fine, then.
18:05:40 <ehird`> Aha! That is where you are wrong - FOR THEY ARE DEAD!
18:05:51 <ehird`> They died of food poisoning, unfortunately.
18:05:58 <ihope> Oh, that's a shame!
18:06:04 <ihope> What did they eat?
18:06:21 <ehird`> Um. You know. Just Mars.
18:06:30 <ehird`> The chocolate bar, that is, not the planet.
18:06:40 <ihope> Oh, I thought you were talking about the Roman god.
18:06:44 <ehird`> However, they tried to eat the planet first. The chocolate bar was just a compromise.
18:07:07 <ihope> And what did the bar contain that gave them food poisoning?
18:07:21 <ihope> I shall file a wedding gown!
18:07:33 <ehird`> ... Um... nothing... I really must go now! Just... uh... going to the Mars factory... yeah... why? er, no reason! bye!!!
18:07:43 <ihope> Say, did you kill them?
18:07:59 <ehird`> ... And now, you see, boss, I have put chicken-killing poison into all of the bars.
18:08:04 <ehird`> Soon, the world will be yours!
18:08:13 <ihope> (Am I the boss now?)
18:08:17 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: You! Say "Excellent!"
18:08:23 <ehird`> Alternatively, you are the boss, ihope.
18:08:30 <ehird`> It's a very dynamic company; the bosses just come and go.
18:08:37 <ehird`> Yes, indeed it is excellent... mwahahahaha...
18:08:45 <ehird`> *stage whisper: BUT I HAVE MY OWN PLANS...*
18:08:55 <ehird`> *cut scene to teenager inventing something*
18:08:59 <ehird`> OH! So that's how time travel works!
18:09:14 <ehird`> Any time travel cancels itself out so that what you did when you travelled was always true!
18:09:30 <ehird`> I'll just go and time travel now- *universe explodes in paradox*
18:09:41 <ehird`> My my, I just felt as if a universe died.
18:09:56 <ehird`> *stabs you with a knife*
18:10:03 <ihope> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
18:10:04 <ehird`> Mwahahahahahahahaha! Now the Earth will be MINE!
18:10:22 <ehird`> You, perilous fool, will die. But first... you must tell me the recipe!
18:10:44 <ehird`> ihope: But first.. you must tell me the recipe!
18:10:51 <ihope> Um, lemme think...
18:11:19 <ihope> Just mix this Instant Mix with a gallon of water and a large cup of sugar!
18:11:31 <ehird`> What does the Instant Mix contain?
18:11:39 <ehird`> TELL ME! *steadies knife at throat*
18:11:43 <ihope> It says on the label, doesn't it?
18:12:13 <ihope> Well then, that's what it contains!
18:12:20 <ehird`> Is that what the brown sticky stuff is, then?
18:12:37 <ehird`> Well, then obviously my poison was not needed!
18:12:42 <ehird`> The chickens must have died from eating manure...
18:12:52 <ehird`> THEN WHAT DID I PUT IN THE RECIPE?!!!!!
18:13:02 <ehird`> *checks bottle* Oh god. "HUMANKILL2000"
18:13:16 <ehird`> *change scene to farm*
18:13:23 <ehird`> So your chickens died?
18:13:40 <ehird`> Think it might have something to do with THIS? *holds up packet of manure*
18:13:57 <ihope> Why, how did you know?
18:14:26 <ehird`> You gave me this. *holds up HUMANKILL*
18:14:32 <ehird`> I ASKED FOR CHICKEN POISON?!
18:14:35 <ehird`> HOW DARE YOU BETRAY ME?!
18:14:47 <ihope> Sorry! I... must have made a mistake!
18:15:13 <ihope> ...Oh, it turns out CHICKENKILL is actually ridiculously expensive!
18:15:18 <ehird`> AVADA KEDAVRA! *universe disappears in a poof of genre-and-franchise-crossing*
18:15:26 <ihope> So by giving you HUMANKILL instead, I sav--
18:15:33 <ehird`> Say, this void is very nice. Don't you agree, little Grue?
18:15:45 <ihope> Are you a Grue, too?
18:15:47 <ehird`> Um... you know this void... does it happen to be dark?
18:15:58 <ihope> Isn't void devoid of most things?
18:15:59 <ehird`> Um, can Grues still eat in voids?
18:16:09 <ihope> I don't see why not, as long as they're dark voids.
18:16:18 <ehird`> Um... you can't run away in voids, can you?
18:16:19 <ihope> And if voids are devoid of most things, then they're devoid of light, so they're dark.
18:16:33 <ehird`> Um... you can't run away in voids, can you?
18:16:37 <ihope> Well, even if you could, if there's no bright place to run to...
18:16:43 <ihope> ...there's no point in running.
18:17:08 <ihope> Hmm, apparently not...
18:17:26 <ehird`> Oh look, pink fluffy elephant!
18:18:02 * ihope runs away in a ridiculous manner
18:18:07 <ehird`> But I am a nice mouse.
18:18:15 * ihope comes back in a ridiculous manner
18:18:32 <ihope> *teeth chatter in a ridiculous manner*
18:18:32 <ehird`> Just kidding! I WANT TO EAT YOU!
18:18:40 * ihope runs away in a ridiculous manner
18:18:45 * ehird` appears in front of you
18:19:01 * ihope stomps the mouse in a ridiculous manner
18:19:08 * ehird` appears in front of you
18:19:16 <ehird`> Hello! I am your future self
18:19:28 <ehird`> JESUS CHRIST IT'S A LION GET IN THE TIME MACHINE - HERE IS YOUR SCRIPT
18:19:35 <ehird`> *turns on time machine*
18:19:39 <ehird`> Hello! I am your future self
18:20:15 <ihope> Would you like me to give you all my money, sir?
18:20:24 <ehird`> I want you to give me all of your money!
18:20:59 <ihope> Shall I dance too, sir?
18:21:13 <ehird`> You should be in a quantum superposition of dancing and not dancing!
18:21:22 <ehird`> I should not be able to tell which you are in unless I look at you!
18:21:35 * ihope does a Hadamard transform, observes, and dances iff the result was 1
18:22:19 <ehird`> Hm. I have found the universes' admin panel
18:22:26 <ehird`> Look... "stars" subpanel!
18:22:34 <ehird`> Hmmm... "planets" *click*
18:22:44 <ehird`> Look! There's Earth! It's SOL3 here, though.
18:22:51 <ehird`> Hmm... I can mess about with its core.
18:23:08 <ihope> Turn it into antimatter!
18:23:13 <ehird`> I can "SJAKÓÁ", "ÁÁK", or "pÁ"
18:23:26 <ihope> Um... the last option seems the simplest.
18:23:36 <ehird`> *computer voice: EXPLODERATING CORE*
18:23:45 <ihope> We're on Earth, aren't we?
18:23:52 <ehird`> *BIG BALL OF FIRE IS NEW EARTH*
18:23:59 <ehird`> *EVERYTHING IMPLODES INTO ONE TINY DOT*
18:24:05 <ehird`> Well, I wonder what's going to ha-
18:24:28 <ehird`> Hm. I have found the universes' admin panel
18:25:09 <ehird`> http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1186507137.html Saved forever.
18:25:25 <ihope> And look, there's a Unicode character called "to slant; intricate; describe a writer's pen, lofty rocks; protruded rocks; resolute"!
18:26:29 <ihope> Um, lemme see here...
18:28:00 <ihope> The best I can manage: 㕊
18:28:14 <ehird`> just give me the html entity number :p
18:28:46 <ihope> 㕊 or 㕊
18:29:16 <ihope> And apparently it's 0xE3 0x95 0x8A in UTF-8.
18:29:39 <ihope> ~exec sys.stdout(u"\u354A")
18:29:40 <bsmnt_bot> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u354a' in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
18:29:41 <ehird`> um i need a font with it in
18:30:18 <ihope> Well, it's supported in Code2000 and DFSongStd.
18:31:03 <ehird`> what does it look like in them?
18:31:30 <ihope> Here, have a web page devoted to that character: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/354a/index.htm
18:31:48 <ihope> And an SVG sample: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/354a/sample.svg
18:32:47 <ehird`> oh, it's japanese or something
18:32:52 <ehird`> that's less interesting
18:33:10 <ihope> It's certainly Han.
18:33:31 <ihope> Indeed, less interesting.
18:33:45 <ihope> Maybe I can find some Klingon.
18:34:05 <ehird`> there should be a "making a simple conlang for beginners" tutorial
18:34:11 <ehird`> most of them drag on and are really boring =p
18:34:22 <ihope> How about "just make one"?
18:34:29 <ehird`> lament: that's a language
18:34:29 <lament> toki pona li pona li suli ala.
18:34:38 <ehird`> not a tutorial for designing conlangs
18:34:50 <lament> bsmntbombdood: but chose haskell instead?
18:35:06 <ehird`> ihope: i know english and around 3 phrases of lojban; and I know next to nothing about linguistics
18:35:09 * lament considers adding monads to toki pona
18:35:10 <ehird`> "not that hard" is not that true
18:35:20 * pikhq knows English, some Japanese, and some Esperanto
18:35:28 <ihope> Hey, it can be superficially different but really English at its core :-P
18:35:45 <ehird`> ihope: that isn't a real conlang though
18:35:51 <lament> ehird`: just like people who don't know anything but C shouldn't go around designing programming languages, people who don't know any linguistics and only speak one language shoudln't design conlangs.
18:36:03 <ehird`> lament: hey, just a small toy one
18:36:09 * pikhq *started* a conlang a few years back. . .
18:36:10 <lament> ehird`: learn basic linguistics, it's interesting and easy.
18:36:11 <ehird`> for getting the feel of conlang design
18:36:23 <ihope> Come up with a syntax for English!
18:36:24 <lament> ehird`: as well as being necessary for designing conlangs
18:36:26 <pikhq> The language itself didn't come very far, but the writing system was quite elegant.
18:36:38 <ehird`> well, sure, i know the very basics of linguistics
18:36:38 <lament> ehird`: read up on language typology
18:36:51 <pikhq> Pretty much, I discovered my grammar was superficially similar to Esperanto, and dropped it at that point.
18:37:00 <ihope> Here, have a rule: <sentence> -> <x : subject> <predicate x>
18:37:24 <lament> ehird`: for starters, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphological_typology
18:38:07 <lament> consider that a tutorial :)
18:38:08 <pikhq> Conlangs are fun. :)
18:40:37 <ihope> Languages of expression and languages of programming are very different.
18:41:06 <oklofok> (ihope) 3.14 159 265 35 8797, is it? <<< nope.
18:41:50 <oklofok> (bsmntbombdood) 3.141592653589793238462643383279501 <<< wrong again
18:50:38 -!- olsner has joined.
18:51:22 <oklofok> well, if that's right, then i'd have to be wrong.
18:51:32 <oklofok> so... you don't really stand a change
18:51:49 <ihope> After all, we all know that oklofok > bsmntbombdood.
18:52:18 <oklofok> 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944
18:52:35 <ihope> Also, it seems bsmntbombdood and bsmnt_bot are now bsb and bs_ rather than bb and b_, since Blejdfist sort of messed things up a little.
18:53:12 <oklofok> i actually learned till 120th digit, but i've forgotten them since i forgot to revise the next day
18:53:54 * olsner also once learned to 120 but is now back to just 60
18:53:54 <oklofok> i guess i didn't forget, i was just lazy
18:54:50 <oklofok> ah indeed, most people prolly do sequences of 6 digits
18:54:59 <oklofok> like 3.141592 653589 79...
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18:57:09 <olsner> I have a mixture of chunksizes... starting with two (I didn't set out to learn a lot of pi, just as much as could fit in a 64-bit float ;-), then a few groups of 3 or 4, then like pairs of 4's to 60, and 60-120 I memorized in 3's
18:57:41 <ihope> Too bad numbers like 4 have weird expansions. :-P
18:57:47 <ihope> And besides, everyone knows base e is better!
18:58:17 <olsner> 3 . 14 15 92 65 35 89 79 32 38 46 264 338 32 79 50 2884 1971 6939 (9375 1058) (2097 4944)
18:59:44 <ehird`> i'd start with 3 . 141592
18:59:49 <ehird`> seems more natural to me
19:00:21 <ehird`> 3 . 141592 6535 8979 3238 4626 33832 7950 2884 1971 6939 9375 1058 2097 4944
19:00:28 <ihope> Actually, I think it's 3.14 1 59 265 for me.
19:00:50 <olsner> ehird`: well, it's not natural, it's transcendental
19:00:53 <ehird`> maybe 3 . 14159 26535 8979 3238 4626 33832 7950 2884 1971 6939 9375 1058 2097 4944
19:01:00 <ehird`> olsner: har har har har har har har yawn
19:01:09 <ehird`> if i didn't like big blocks for some reason it'd be:
19:01:54 <ehird`> 3.14 159 265 3589 79 3238 4626 338 3279 502 884 197 169 399 375 105 820 974 944
19:11:06 <ihope> Maybe we should try to improvise a language.
19:11:43 <ihope> See what we can say without resorting to English at all.
19:12:46 <ihope> Is that in a language other than English?
19:13:14 <ihope> Podemos usar las otras lenguas, por supuesto. :-P
19:13:28 <ihope> But is it in any language at all?
19:13:35 <ihope> "Por supuesto" is "of course", I think.
19:13:47 <oklofok> i have really no vocabulary in spanish
19:14:01 <oklofok> i just know some grammar and pronunciation
19:14:08 <ihope> #implang for anybody who feels like participating.
19:14:15 <olsner> Podemos usar = let's use?
19:14:36 <oklofok> i always feel like everything
19:14:58 <ihope> You feel like everything?
19:15:04 <olsner> and what's 'otras' mean?
19:15:58 <lament> i learned 50 digits of pi using conway's method
19:17:34 <olsner> lament: you're 10 digits away from mine and oklofok's baseline, and 70 digits away from our max
19:18:48 <ihope> "otras" is "other", I think.
19:19:55 <olsner> seems I do know a little bit of spanish after all
19:22:53 <lament> olsner: i don't feel like learning any more, and 50 is a nice round number :)
19:23:01 <oklofok> (ihope) You feel like everything? <<< yes, i feel absolutely everything possible at all times
19:23:25 <olsner> lament: just pointing out that you're behind ;-)
19:23:35 <lament> olsner: actually i know all digits of pi
19:23:40 <lament> olsner: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
19:23:42 <ehird`> i want to be able to program my mental computer...
19:23:46 <ehird`> the gui we're given sucks!
19:24:04 <olsner> lament: har har har har hrrg
19:24:34 <ehird`> does it occur to anyone else that learning mathematics might be completely useless? our brains might have mathematics at the core, as a basis for our thoughts, so our maths is like doing computer arithmetic with string cat'ing :)
19:25:58 <lament> ehird`: if there was an easier / more "natural" way, it would have probably been discovered already.
19:27:03 <ehird`> lament: not really - it's like running windows on top of dos with no way to get into dos
19:27:28 <lament> ehird`: the reason people do math is first of all because it's practical
19:27:39 <lament> ehird`: if there was an easier way to achieve the same results, people would do that instead
19:28:04 <ehird`> alternatively, we haven't discovered the lower level of the brain yet so can't
19:28:33 <lament> right. Feel free to discover it.
19:28:50 <lament> But I feel that experienced mathematicians already work at that level.
19:29:01 <lament> at least the good ones.
19:29:48 <ehird`> oh shit, i just programmed in a viru-
19:35:51 <ihope> oklofok: I think so far, our improvised language is sort of failing. :-P
19:38:09 <oklofok> i'm just talking in german for fun :)
19:39:00 <olsner> oklofok: but on IRC, all that matters is what you're writing... and you seem to be writing english ;-)
19:39:34 <ihope> Is there anyone here who knows both a Romance language and a Germanic language other than English?
19:39:53 <oklofok> damn i wish i'd've learned spanish...
19:40:23 <oklofok> sind hier deutschsprechende leute?
19:40:30 <ihope> This is difficult indeed.
19:41:09 -!- GregorR has changed nick to GregOrr.
19:41:24 <olsner> ja ;-) ich bin nicht deutsch, aber ich kann es siemlich sprechen
19:42:14 -!- GregOrr has changed nick to GregorR.
19:42:32 <oklofok> that was... quite ziemlich gespracht..
19:42:34 <ihope> GregorR: who do you think you are?
19:43:22 <ihope> If you're Greg Orr, then who's Greg Orr supposed to be?
19:43:43 <oklofok> 'ziemlich' is kinda like the intersection of the meanings of 'quite' and 'rather'... if that makes any sense
19:43:49 <oklofok> you can't use it like that anyway
19:44:17 <olsner> and a few french phrases "je suis une pomplemousse avec deux jeune bleu", "je ne sais pas, j'aime tout le coleurs" ;-)
19:45:23 <olsner> oh, I forgot the 'gut'
19:45:49 <ihope> I think we're sort of expecting ourselves to become fluent in a completely made-up language.
19:46:38 <olsner> it just sounded right because the phrase I was aiming for also begins with 'siemlich'
19:48:35 <ihope> I think I'll go try to recruit some people for #implang.
19:49:00 <olsner> oklofok: whut? have I been making up german words?
19:49:53 <oklofok> hmm... i should read the rest of my german vocabulary
19:50:16 <olsner> but ziemlich is a word
19:50:33 <oklofok> that's like an hour... but why not irc for 5 days and use the rest of the summer for it.
19:55:23 <ihope> What we really need is a network where things like #implang are actually likely to get off the ground :-P
19:55:52 <olsner> and #implang would be like a channel where you mustn't speak any known language?
19:56:29 <ihope> Everything but English is allowed.
19:56:37 <ihope> I'm speaking Spanish, and I think oklofok is speaking German.
19:57:26 * olsner accidentily joined #impland instead
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20:11:19 <Sukoshi`> Python's list comprehension seems just like a not-as-powerful CL LOOP to me.
20:12:53 <oklofok> python's list comprehensions are ugly imo.... though i kinda like them
20:24:39 <lament> Sukoshi`: they come from haskell, in case you haven't noticed
20:35:26 <ehird`> #implang is doing well
20:35:28 <ehird`> we can say basic stuff
20:35:35 <ehird`> zolamuldon - "no words", words that mean no
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21:28:19 <cherez> CL LOOP is Turing equivalent, if I recall.
21:28:43 <cherez> Common Lisp's LOOP macro.
21:29:29 <cherez> It pretty much does anything any loop construct of any language will do.
21:33:27 <olsner> LOOP probably does everything from mapcar to forth's begin..while..while..repeat..else..then loop
21:34:12 <ihope> How is it defined?
21:36:09 <olsner> dunno ;-) as far as I understand forth, those control structures are just manipulations on some kind of control stack and can be combined virtually without limits
21:36:52 <ihope> You know what it's useful for, but not its properties?
21:39:27 <olsner> oh, you're asking about CL's LOOP, not about forth? I' not a big fan of loop so I've actually never used it ;-)
21:42:17 <pikhq> It's a macro which does all of the above.
21:44:10 <ihope> What does it take, what does it return?
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21:52:42 <bsmntbombdood> ihope: it takes a very complicated syntax, and returns whatever you want it to
21:53:21 <ehird`> #implang is doign very well
21:53:27 <ehird`> we can already have a simple conversation :)
21:55:10 <pikhq> Sorry, I saw it without the at least.
21:55:41 <pikhq> botcount(); returns 1, and 10^10 < 1.
21:56:13 <ihope> Is bsmnt_bot a real person?
21:57:32 <oklofok> there's 1 bot on this channel?
21:57:57 <ihope> 2 or 3, depending on whether you count bsmntbombdood?
21:58:22 <oklofok> yay, my bot was acknowledged
21:58:59 <ihope> Oh, and clog is a bot.
21:59:20 <oklofok> the definition of a bot is that it's nick ends in 'bot'!
22:00:36 <oklofok> err... something about your mom as a comeback.
22:00:59 <ihope> What does cmeme do?
22:08:39 -!- ihope has quit ("http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09").
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