00:00:12 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to Lune-aVulff.
00:01:25 <AnMaster> oerjan, hm... that sounds extremely familiar...
00:02:20 <AnMaster> but "au claire de la lune" isn't the name of it
00:02:44 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Au_Clair_de_la_Lune
00:02:52 <AnMaster> well I haven't heard of that folk song before
00:03:06 <AnMaster> I have heard Clair de lune by Debussy though
00:03:36 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun.
00:04:38 <ehird> Lune-aVulff: do we have compose yet?
00:04:54 <Lune-aVulff> ... do ... we ... have ... compose ... yet ...
00:06:13 <AnMaster> ehird, Three. Two. One. Igntion. We have compose. <cue: cheers from control room>
00:06:28 <ehird> !swedish Because, you see, I want to do things like Swedish^2.
00:06:29 <EgoBot> Becoose-a, yuoo see-a, I vunt tu du theengs leeke-a Svedeesh^2. Bork Bork Bork!
00:06:34 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clair_de_Lune
00:06:34 <ehird> !swedish Becoose-a, yuoo see-a, I vunt tu du theengs leeke-a Svedeesh^2. Bork Bork Bork!
00:06:35 <EgoBot> Becuuse-a-a, yoouu see-a-a, I foont too doo zeeengs leeke-a-a Sfedeesh^2. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork!
00:06:45 <ehird> !swedish Becuuse-a-a, yoouu see-a-a, I foont too doo zeeengs leeke-a-a Sfedeesh^2. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork!
00:06:46 <EgoBot> Becoooose-a-a-a, yuuoooo see-a-a-a, I fuunt tuu duu zeeengs leeke-a-a-a Sffedeesh^2. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork!
00:06:54 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
00:06:59 <EgoBot> userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
00:07:05 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: bc bct bfbignum brit chiqrsx9p choo dc echo google gregor hello num ook plot rot13 sadbf slashes swedish yodawg
00:07:14 <ehird> !swedish Hello, world! This is a test.
00:07:14 <EgoBot> Hellu, vurld! Thees is a test. Bork Bork Bork!
00:07:16 <AnMaster> Lune-aVulff, you need to add an UK English parody one
00:07:18 <ehird> !brit Hellu, vurld! Thees is a test. Bork Bork Bork!
00:07:19 <EgoBot> 'ellu, vurld! Oi! Fees is a test. Bork Bork Bork! Oi!
00:07:39 <ehird> !brit AnMaster: We already have one, that is the truth.
00:07:39 <EgoBot> AnMaster: We already 'ave one, that is the bloody truth.
00:07:48 <AnMaster> ehird, ah I didn't know about it
00:07:55 <EgoBot> This is 'ow real Brits go on.
00:08:01 <ehird> That is just expanding all contractions, and pronouncing it in Received Pronunciation.
00:08:31 <ehird> !brit AnMaster: This is basically accurate for Londoners.
00:08:32 <EgoBot> AnMaster: This is basically accurate for Cockneys.
00:08:56 <AnMaster> Lune-aVulff, where is that program from
00:09:13 <AnMaster> ehird, I tail at Cockneys rhymes
00:09:41 <ehird> AnMaster: To interpret them, just disregard the first word, and think of something that rhymes with the latter that fixes.
00:09:44 <ehird> "Go up the apples and pears."
00:09:47 <ehird> → "Go up the [pears]."
00:09:49 <AnMaster> Jun 7 00:53:27 tux /usr/sbin/gpm[4899]: *** info [daemon/processrequest.c(42)]:
00:09:49 <AnMaster> Jun 7 00:53:27 tux /usr/sbin/gpm[4899]: Request on 7 (console 0)
00:09:56 <ehird> You have to know 'em, really.
00:10:15 <AnMaster> ehird, hm... "stairs" rhyme with "pears"?
00:10:20 <ehird> Lune-aVulff: That talkfilters is by the same guy who did libconfig and that JVM server.
00:10:49 <Lune-aVulff> Did you think that "pears" sounded like "peers"?
00:10:50 <ehird> AnMaster: Stares. Pares.
00:11:11 <ehird> Lune-aVulff: [[The filters include austro, b1ff, brooklyn, chef, cockney, drawl, dubya, fudd, funetak, jethro, jive, kraut, pansy, pirate, postmodern, redneck, valspeak, and warez]]
00:11:16 <ehird> i'm going to add all of them now, ok?
00:11:25 <Lune-aVulff> ehird: Most of them are surprisingly lame :(
00:11:31 <AnMaster> ehird, same sounds as for airs and ears then?
00:11:36 <Lune-aVulff> ehird: I left it to those two because they're actually good.
00:11:48 <Lune-aVulff> AnMaster: So you have no understanding of English then? Got it :P
00:12:30 -!- Dewio has joined.
00:12:32 <EgoBot> Interpreter aol installed.
00:12:39 <EgoBot> 1"M AN AOL USER!!!!!!!!!!1
00:12:42 <ehird> Lune-aVulff: That's not AOL.
00:12:53 <ehird> I'm going to add them all with their proper names, harumph.
00:12:56 <oerjan> um ea and ee are usually the same sound in english aren't they
00:12:57 <AnMaster> Lune-aVulff, well there is something similiar in them
00:13:15 <AnMaster> Lune-aVulff, but not in US English right?
00:13:19 <EgoBot> Interpreter brit deleted.
00:13:22 <EgoBot> Interpreter aol deleted.
00:13:23 <ehird> !delinterp swedish
00:13:23 <EgoBot> Interpreter swedish deleted.
00:13:27 <ehird> !addinterp austro sh austro
00:13:27 <ehird> !addinterp b1ff sh b1ff
00:13:27 <EgoBot> Interpreter austro installed.
00:13:27 <EgoBot> Interpreter b1ff installed.
00:13:29 <ehird> !addinterp brooklyn sh brooklyn
00:13:29 <EgoBot> Interpreter brooklyn installed.
00:13:30 <ehird> !addinterp chef sh chef
00:13:31 <EgoBot> Interpreter chef installed.
00:13:33 <ehird> !addinterp cockney sh cockney
00:13:33 <EgoBot> Interpreter cockney installed.
00:13:34 <ehird> !addinterp drawl sh drawl
00:13:35 <EgoBot> Interpreter drawl installed.
00:13:36 <ehird> !addinterp dubya sh dubya
00:13:37 <EgoBot> Interpreter dubya installed.
00:13:39 <ehird> !addinterp fudd sh fudd
00:13:39 <EgoBot> Interpreter fudd installed.
00:13:40 <ehird> !addinterp funetak sh funetak
00:13:41 <EgoBot> Interpreter funetak installed.
00:13:43 <ehird> !addinterp jehtro sh jehtro
00:13:43 <EgoBot> Interpreter jehtro installed.
00:13:44 <ehird> !addinterp kraut sh kraut
00:13:45 <EgoBot> Interpreter kraut installed.
00:13:46 <ehird> !addinterp pansy sh pansy
00:13:47 <EgoBot> Interpreter pansy installed.
00:13:48 <ehird> !addinterp pirate sh pirate
00:13:49 <EgoBot> Interpreter pirate installed.
00:13:51 <ehird> !addinterp postmodern sh postmodern
00:13:51 <EgoBot> Interpreter postmodern installed.
00:13:52 <ehird> !addinterp redneck sh redneck
00:13:53 <EgoBot> Interpreter redneck installed.
00:13:53 <AnMaster> because that one is just his !swedish
00:13:54 <ehird> !addinterp valspeak sh valspeak
00:13:55 <EgoBot> Interpreter valspeak installed.
00:13:57 <ehird> !addinterp warez sh warez
00:13:57 <EgoBot> Interpreter warez installed.
00:14:01 <ehird> Lune-aVulff: Sorry, bit late.
00:14:03 <ehird> AnMaster: I deleted those.
00:14:10 <ehird> Shut up, I didn't know about it.
00:14:15 <ehird> I'd already sent the lines off.
00:14:32 <ehird> GregorR: Did not say strategery.
00:14:42 <Lune-aVulff> ehird: See, dubya is one of the lame ones. I can't find something that it changes.
00:14:46 <ehird> AnMaster: Give a shit I don't.
00:14:57 <ehird> !dubya We are at war with the Iranic terrorists.
00:14:57 <EgoBot> We is at war with the Iranically evildoers. Stay the course!
00:14:59 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
00:15:00 <ehird> !dubya We are at war with the Islamic terrorists.
00:15:01 <EgoBot> We is at war with the Islamically bad guys.
00:15:06 <EgoBot> userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
00:15:12 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney dc drawl dubya echo fudd funetak google gregor hello jehtro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern redneck rot13 sadbf slashes valspeak warez yodawg
00:15:17 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
00:15:19 <ehird> !valspeak Val speak? What?
00:15:20 -!- Lune-aVulff has quit ("Leaving").
00:15:27 <ehird> !valspeak What is valspeak, I wonder?
00:15:28 <EgoBot> What is valspeak, fer shure I wonder?
00:15:36 <ehird> !postmodern The objects are ontologically categorized
00:15:36 <EgoBot> Tted Kennedy objects are ontologically categorized
00:15:37 <AnMaster> !postmodern So what is this then?
00:15:38 <EgoBot> So what is semiotically this semiotically then?
00:15:59 <AnMaster> ehird, what is this "postmodern"
00:16:03 <ehird> google postmodernism
00:16:24 <ehird> !postmodern The objects are ontologically categorized by the literature-social relation that is so common to these works, so that a new theory based on inter-spatial relationships can be developed and refined in according with the principles of reductionism.
00:16:24 <EgoBot> Tted Kennedy objects are ontologically categorized by tted Kennedy literature-social relation that deconstructed is semiotically so common to these works, so that deconstructed a postmodern theory based on inter-spatial relationships can be developed and refined in the penetrated space of according with tted Kennedy principles of reductionism.
00:16:34 <ehird> Okay, uh, that cold do better.
00:17:02 <ehird> !drawl I have a drawl, 'tis true.
00:17:02 <EgoBot> Ahv uh drawl, 'tis true.
00:17:04 <AnMaster> ehird, Hm... I know parts of postmodernism
00:17:25 <ehird> AnMaster: Postmodernism is a load of bullshit involving words like "ontological", "semiotic" and other bullshit.
00:17:47 <oerjan> !postmodern Would you like a cup of coffee, dear?
00:17:47 <EgoBot> Would you like a cup of coffee, dear?
00:18:03 <ehird> !pirate YARRRRRRRR
00:18:09 <ehird> !pirate Well, it sure does work.
00:18:09 <EgoBot> Well, it sure does work, I'll warrant ye.
00:18:40 <AnMaster> ehird, hm. Not only I believe after reading the WP article about it
00:19:05 <ehird> AnMaster: If you can read a few paragraphs of the article "Postmodernism" and your brain has not turned into goo, it was already goo.
00:19:29 <ehird> AnMaster: see, for instance, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair
00:19:42 <oerjan> !postmodern In order to create goo, insert brain in slot no. 4
00:19:43 <EgoBot> In the penetrated space of order to create goo, insert brain the penetrated space of in the penetrated space of slot no. 4
00:19:47 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_wars, too.
00:20:00 <ehird> "They like evidence and reason but we like word masturbation."
00:20:40 <ehird> I might write a filter for that
00:20:56 <ehird> "The green grass is so beautiful! Oh, and the blue sky! This is so perfect, I want to be here forever."
00:21:21 <ehird> "The green grass is so beautiful, schmeautiful. Oh, and the blue sky, shmy! This is so perfect, schmerfect, I want to be here forever."
00:21:25 <ehird> AnMaster: I'm not gone :P
00:22:03 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney dc drawl dubya echo fudd funetak google gregor hello jehtro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern redneck rot13 sadbf slashes valspeak warez yodawg
00:22:23 <ehird> !pansy Oh! That hurts! You touched me!
00:22:23 <EgoBot> Oh. Mmmh, yeth! That hurtth. Mmmh, yeth! You touched me. Mmmh, yeth!
00:22:55 <ehird> !fudd I'm hunting rabbits.
00:23:03 <ehird> !fudd It's rabbit season.
00:23:03 <EgoBot> It's wabbit season, uh-hah-hah-hah.
00:23:16 <oerjan> !redneck Please stand still so I can hit you.
00:23:17 <EgoBot> Please stand still so Ah kin hit yew.
00:23:22 <ehird> AnMaster: Elmer Fudd.
00:23:33 <ehird> The vegetarian Bugs Bunny-hunter.
00:23:46 <AnMaster> ehird, I have only seen Swedish translation
00:23:55 <AnMaster> so I don't even remember the Swedish name
00:23:58 <ehird> !fudd Be very very quiet, I'm hunting rabbits.
00:23:58 <EgoBot> Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting wabbits.
00:24:03 <ehird> It forgot the hahs.
00:24:21 -!- Dewi has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)).
00:25:18 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:25:35 <AnMaster> ehird, they lost that when adding Swedish voices instead
00:25:52 <AnMaster> he had some other speech impediment iirc.
00:26:50 <ehird> That's what it had in... in thingy, you know, English.
00:29:00 <AnMaster> ehird, post-modernism in design and novels is something different from that though
00:29:03 -!- pikhq has quit (Connection timed out).
00:31:29 <AnMaster> "The term postmodern is described by Merriam-Webster as meaning either "of, relating to, or being an era after a modern one" or "of, relating to, or being any of various movements in reaction to modernism that are typically characterized by a return to traditional materials and forms (as in architecture) or by ironic self-reference and absurdity (as in literature)", or finally "of, relating to, or bei
00:31:29 <AnMaster> ng a theory that involves a radical reappraisal of modern assumptions about culture, identity, history, or language"."
00:31:36 <AnMaster> I have run into the second meaning
00:32:02 <AnMaster> and I even seen Discworld classified as post-modern
00:36:28 <AnMaster> ehird, Seems like postmodernism in Swedish have a slightly wider meaning
00:42:26 <oerjan> And the Ehird said: Thou shalt not start a sentence with "And". And everyone begot mightily confused.
00:43:11 <GregorR> And what's so wrong with starting sentences with 'and'?
00:43:59 <GregorR> Do you complain about ending sentences with prepositions?
00:44:24 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq.
00:44:38 <ehird> GregorR: No, that's fine/
00:44:40 <oerjan> I think prepositions are a perfectly appropriate thing to end sentences with.
00:44:42 <AnMaster> I think someone else asked that before....
00:45:03 <pikhq> Do you complain about split infinitives?
00:45:31 <GregorR> oerjan: Way to make that sentence as awkward as possible to prove a point about it not being awkward :P
00:45:31 <pikhq> psygnisfive: Care to beat ehird?
00:45:44 <AnMaster> pikhq, And to boldly use "and" at the start of sentences where no one used "and" before?
00:45:44 <lament> ah, it's futile to powerlessly complain...
00:45:47 <ehird> psygnisfive will fight with me against and-starters! He is not evil!
00:46:36 <oerjan> GregorR: And please, is what we aim to.
00:46:54 <AnMaster> pikhq, I have, as a non-native speaker, troubles detecting split infinitives. To me they sound perfectly normal
00:47:23 <AnMaster> <GregorR> oerjan: Way to make that sentence as awkward as possible to prove a point about it not being awkward :P <-- um your was somehow. But not oerjan's
00:47:46 <ehird> psygnisfive: I hate sentences starting with and
00:47:48 <ehird> the evil masses do not
00:47:52 <ehird> WE WILL FIGHT! TOGETHER!
00:47:58 <ehird> FOR CORRECTNESS AND PROSPERITY!
00:48:11 <pikhq> AnMaster: They are, in fact, quite normal.
00:48:26 <oerjan> And correctness and prosperity is what we will fight for!
00:48:33 <psygnisfive> ehird: noone cares what you think because you're 13.
00:48:34 <lament> I hate sentences *ending* with and.
00:48:36 <AnMaster> And lo and behold. psygnisfive disagreed with ehird.
00:48:49 <pikhq> AnMaster: The complaints about split infinitives were started by some bloody bastards that decided to start applying Latin grammar rules to English.
00:48:49 <ehird> AnMaster: That's a rather odd definition of disagreeing.
00:48:59 <ehird> psygnisfive: I'M ALMOST 14
00:49:14 <psygnisfive> whats that? sorry, i dont care what you think.
00:50:16 <ehird> AnMaster: He hasn't disagreed with me.
00:50:18 <ehird> He's just joking about my age
00:50:39 <psygnisfive> why bother disagreeing with a child who knows nothing of the world
00:50:46 <oerjan> And be, or not to, that is the question.
00:50:47 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, so what do you think about sentences starting with and?
00:51:00 <ehird> I'm a bunny rabbit, incidentally.
00:51:06 <AnMaster> oerjan, that is stretching it...
00:51:26 * ehird continues state of bunnyness.
00:51:26 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, just not used a lot in formal English right?
00:51:27 <oerjan> sorry, that should be, "And be, that is the question, or not to."
00:51:43 <psygnisfive> anmaster: it depends alot on who's formal english.
00:51:44 <AnMaster> oerjan, err. Is that all third at once
00:51:56 <ehird> psygnisfive: 'a lot'
00:52:03 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, so you disagree with ehird then
00:52:17 <ehird> AnMaster: he also uses "alot", which isn't a word.
00:52:39 <ehird> Common misspelling of a lot.
00:52:45 <ehird> Common misspelling of a lot.
00:52:46 <ehird> http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/alot.html
00:52:49 <ehird> Perhaps this common spelling error began because there does exist in English a word spelled “allot” which is a verb meaning to apportion or grant. The correct form, with “a” and “lot” separated by a space is perhaps not often encountered in print because formal writers usually use other expressions such as “a great deal,” “often,” etc.
00:52:53 <ehird> psygnisfive: Wiktionary and /errors/ disagree with you.
00:53:00 <AnMaster> Alot is a town and a nagar panchayat in Ratlam district in the state of Madhya Pradesh, India.
00:53:07 <ehird> pikhq: Even you, surely, will agree that "alot" is not a word.
00:53:12 <psygnisfive> anmaster, hey, guess what, "until" is a misspelling of "on till"
00:53:21 <pikhq> Alot is a misspelling of a word.
00:53:35 <pikhq> Or the result of someone who accidentally the space.
00:53:45 <psygnisfive> luckily, languages themselves dont care about "acceptance", only usage.
00:53:55 <ehird> pikhq: Pfft! You're not nearly descriptivist enough! If we can sample text messages, we will see the true english!
00:53:59 <ehird> thx 4 dat, psygnisfive
00:54:03 <ehird> u tort me a gud lesson
00:54:07 <pikhq> AnMaster: Yes. Slashdot meme.
00:54:11 <ehird> now i no wot english is
00:54:19 <pikhq> psygnisfive: Exceptions made for those languages that have official language bodies. (French) :p
00:54:25 <ehird> http://encyclopediadramatica.com/I_accidentally_X
00:54:39 <pikhq> ehird: Didn't know it was a meme from 4chan initially.
00:54:49 <psygnisfive> just because some twats get together and declare themselves to be the keepers of French doesnt mean shit
00:54:51 <pikhq> ehird: Doesn't surprise me.
00:54:56 <ehird> pikhq: 4chan→reddit→slowpoke valley (it's old in the previous two now)→slashdot
00:55:01 <pikhq> 4chan is the literal asshole of the Internet.
00:55:12 <pikhq> All shit comes out of it.
00:55:16 <psygnisfive> I declare myself to be the sole authority on the English language, with fiat to declare what is and isn't English.
00:55:27 <pikhq> psygnisfive: Fuck off.
00:55:28 <AnMaster> pikhq, ah yes. Except now it won't. See that recent xkcd.
00:55:36 <oerjan> psygnisfive: the norwegian _parliament_ actually passed a law changing our number system from german to english style ordering :)
00:55:55 <psygnisfive> the only thing that matters is what people do.
00:56:00 <oerjan> it still hasn't taken completely
00:56:15 <ehird> 00:55 pikhq: 4chan is the literal asshole of the Internet.
00:56:18 <oerjan> psygnisfive: treogfemti vs. femtitre
00:56:23 <ehird> It does not have any of the anatomical features of an anus.
00:56:28 <AnMaster> <pikhq> psygnisfive: Exceptions made for those languages that have official language bodies. (French) :p <-- Hm... I'm not sure what you mean. But it is possible Sweden has such a thing
00:56:41 <pikhq> The idea is that people tell the "official" defining bodies to fuck off.
00:57:06 <pikhq> AnMaster: Something like the Academie Française? (might've misspelt that; I don't know French)
00:57:07 <oerjan> psygnisfive: german 53 is "drei und fünfzig" iirc
00:57:09 <psygnisfive> its just that the language doesnt magically change because some guys in an office declared it to have.
00:57:11 <pikhq> psygnisfive: Well, yes. They just ignore them.
00:57:24 <psygnisfive> assuming they even know about the proclamation
00:57:27 <AnMaster> ah yes http://www.sprakradet.se/
00:57:31 <ehird> Theory: "I'm a linguist" is a socially acceptable excuse to rape the English language.
00:57:35 <oerjan> norwegian used to use the same order as german, then the parliament wanted to change it to english
00:57:40 <AnMaster> <pikhq> AnMaster: Something like the Academie Française? (might've misspelt that; I don't know French) <-- no clue
00:58:07 <oerjan> psygnisfive: still "tretten"
00:58:08 <pikhq> One can't be said to rape English, anyway.
00:58:19 <ehird> pikhq: Sure you can, metaphorically.
00:58:23 <AnMaster> ehird, you just say this because psygnisfive proved you wrong. And that is your usual style.
00:58:34 <ehird> AnMaster: I'm complaining about his usage of "alot", you dimwit.
00:58:43 <psygnisfive> anmaster: ehird just wants me to bunny cuddle him
00:58:50 <ehird> Are you so pathetic that you have to latch on to any time some random person that you believe to be authoritative says I'm wrong?
00:58:51 <pikhq> English is a freaking slut. It pleasures anyone, as would a harlot.
00:58:57 <ehird> Is that seriously the only goddamn method of argument you have?
00:59:05 <ehird> Argumentum appeal to good-looking authority?
00:59:14 <pikhq> There is nothing, and I mean *nothing* sacrosanct about English.
00:59:16 <psygnisfive> pikhq: english is a good neighbor, you take that back! >|
00:59:29 <AnMaster> http://www.sprakradet.se/international btw
00:59:36 <AnMaster> not sure if that is the same thing basically
01:00:06 <AnMaster> since I have no clue what this "Academie Française" does.
01:00:17 <pikhq> psygnisfive: It is the unholy amalgamate of Old Norse, Latin, French, Norman, Celtic, Old Norse, etc.
01:00:22 <ehird> Gooogle doesn't exist.
01:00:23 <pikhq> AnMaster: Defines French.
01:00:25 <ehird> Gooooooooooooooooogle.
01:00:26 <AnMaster> <oerjan> norwegian used to use the same order as german, then the parliament wanted to change it to english <-- What is the German order? Is it for dates and such?
01:00:44 <pikhq> psygnisfive: It has had two seperate Norse influences, IIRC.
01:00:51 <pikhq> And yes, I forgot to mention Old English.
01:01:09 <psygnisfive> the overwhelming majority of those influences are lexical.
01:01:19 <psygnisfive> lexical adoption is the most trivial sort, and also the most uninteresting.
01:01:54 <AnMaster> <ehird> Is that seriously the only goddamn method of argument you have? <-- no
01:02:01 <ehird> AnMaster: Seems to be
01:02:07 <pikhq> Especially since Old English and Old Norse /were/ mutually intelligible.
01:02:07 <psygnisfive> celtic did, however, have some minor syntactic affects on english
01:02:25 <oerjan> AnMaster: numbers, 21-99 except the round ones
01:02:59 <pikhq> And we know that the Norman Invasion had some freaking massive affects on English.
01:03:04 <oerjan> acht und siebzig, i think
01:03:09 <AnMaster> oerjan, or what do you mean the "order"... I mean the lowest number is lowest
01:03:38 <AnMaster> oerjan, I fail to see what part of the number "order" was changed
01:03:41 <oerjan> AnMaster: big vs. little endian, essentially, but only for the ones vs. tens part
01:04:04 <AnMaster> oerjan, ah like "twenty one" vs "one twenty"?
01:04:19 <AnMaster> oerjan, I remember Danish has a HORRIBLE system for that
01:04:30 <psygnisfive> except, perhaps, via the destruction of the english case system, if that can be attributed to the norman invasion
01:04:34 <AnMaster> something like "5 and four-tweties"
01:04:35 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:05:17 <ehird> Think class, except it
01:05:21 <psygnisfive> all the germanic languages made extensive use of case
01:05:21 <pikhq> psygnisfive: Wasn't Norman's grammar already rather Germanic, anyways?
01:05:22 <ehird> 's determined by your birth and you can't change it.
01:05:23 <ehird> If you didn't know.
01:05:38 <ehird> I was wondering what caste had to do with english
01:06:03 <AnMaster> ehird, I know what "kast" is, isn't it used in India still
01:06:04 <oerjan> AnMaster: worse, 78 is åtteoghalvfjerds iirc
01:06:12 <psygnisfive> case is what distinguishes words like "he" and "him", "I" and "me", etc.
01:06:15 <ehird> AnMaster: Think so.
01:06:15 <AnMaster> but he SAID "case", which is what confused me
01:06:23 <AnMaster> <psygnisfive> also, no, not class.
01:06:42 <ehird> I thought he had typo'd by missing a letter as he did previously.
01:06:45 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, you have them in those examples?
01:06:57 <ehird> Your insistence on always "winning" against me to show how much of an idiot I am is laughable; please spend your time elsewhere.
01:07:02 <AnMaster> "<psygnisfive> case is what distinguishes words like "he" and "him", "I" and "me", etc."
01:07:17 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
01:07:26 <psygnisfive> oh, well, yes, english has remnant case in the pronominal domain
01:07:29 <pikhq> Old English had much more case.
01:07:39 <psygnisfive> modern icelandic has an extensive case system
01:07:46 <psygnisfive> its the only germany language that retains this.
01:08:01 <oerjan> psygnisfive: german also as case
01:08:36 <psygnisfive> case is just a system of marking arguments of a verb.
01:08:40 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, well that is what I'm asking
01:08:46 <AnMaster> since you say am/are/is isn't case
01:08:53 <oerjan> psygnisfive: also prepositions
01:09:02 <psygnisfive> theres no clear understanding of what case really does
01:09:16 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, the "s" on "he writes"?
01:09:23 <ehird> ABRAHAM LINCOLN WAS AN ARAB DONKEY
01:09:25 <psygnisfive> anmaster: thats still subject-verb agreement.
01:09:32 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, then English need varargs
01:09:38 <psygnisfive> verbs have some fixed number of arguments, like, functions
01:09:42 <oerjan> AnMaster: verbs don't have case
01:09:51 <psygnisfive> and the verb assigns case to each of its arguments
01:09:54 <oerjan> nouns and adjectives can have
01:10:03 <ehird> 01:09 AnMaster: psygnisfive, then English need varargs
01:10:09 <psygnisfive> sort of like if you had argument "names" that had to be explicit in the function call, to some sense.
01:10:27 <ehird> psygnisfive: smalltalk has that.
01:10:33 <ehird> fooBar: baz andQuux: dsfjksdf
01:10:34 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, so when you change the form of an adjective depending on if the noun you are describing is singular or plural. Is that case?
01:10:43 <ehird> although python's foo(a=b,c=d) without positional args would be more of a mapping
01:11:06 <psygnisfive> more like bit(nom = dog, acc = man) or bit(nom = man, obl = dog)
01:11:32 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, mhm. Swedish has that one.
01:11:33 <ehird> psygnisfive: Bitnomdogaccman?
01:11:44 <oerjan> psygnisfive: adjectives can agree in case too
01:11:50 <AnMaster> (and yes probably 4chan originally)
01:12:12 <ehird> AnMaster: no, lolcat fags.
01:12:14 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, so how is "he" a case
01:12:30 <pikhq> psygnisfive: Hmm. Sure enough... Norman itself was the unholy amalgamate of Old French and Old Norse.
01:12:34 <psygnisfive> "he" is the nominative case version of the first person singular masculine pronoun
01:12:39 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> "<psygnisfive> case is what distinguishes words like "he" and "him", "I" and "me", etc."
01:13:01 <oerjan> psygnisfive: third person
01:13:10 <AnMaster> jag/mig in Swedish for example then
01:13:57 <psygnisfive> a gloss is a sort of "translation" or "definition" of sorts.
01:14:08 <oerjan> where is ais523's butterfly net when we need it
01:14:40 <AnMaster> oerjan, also it was a joke fully in your style
01:15:52 <oerjan> that'll be SEK 154 in royalties, then
01:16:51 <AnMaster> oerjan, also it is a parody, thus fair use
01:17:09 <oerjan> fair use is a US-only concept
01:17:28 <AnMaster> I'm connected to a freenode server hosted in US.
01:17:38 <AnMaster> plus, Sweden does iirc have something similiar
01:18:26 <psygnisfive> what other ling stuff can i explain for you today
01:18:34 <oerjan> parodies, piratees, what's the difference
01:19:39 <oerjan> psygnisfive: sorry, my brain is full
01:20:23 <AnMaster> Bittorrent is clearly all one big parody
01:20:42 <oerjan> norway had one of those in a recent election
01:20:55 <oerjan> Det politiske parti, i think it was called
01:21:21 <AnMaster> oerjan, what did they stand for. And did they get any mandate?
01:21:31 <AnMaster> (or whatever the English word is)
01:21:34 <oerjan> they were dangerously close, or something :D
01:21:43 <AnMaster> oerjan, wow. But what did they stand for
01:22:08 <oerjan> i recall something about their representatives promising to vote according to polls
01:22:35 <ehird> Piratparodypartiet.
01:22:37 <ehird> The best of both worlds.
01:22:43 <ehird> Also alliterative.
01:22:45 <oerjan> http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Det_Politiske_Parti
01:23:26 <oerjan> sort of a shadow government
01:24:34 <AnMaster> "The Political Party was active only in the general election of 2001."
01:25:06 <AnMaster> oerjan, translate: "Da partiet ikke har meldt overføring til Partiregisteret, falt partinavnet ut som registrert partinavn etter stortingsvalget 2005."
01:25:43 <AnMaster> plus I want HIGH QUALITY translation
01:26:08 <Asztal> it's not too bad for closely-related languages
01:26:58 <AnMaster> "falt partinavnet ut som registrert partinavn" was the bit I failed to understand
01:27:06 <Asztal> OK, not a great translation :P
01:27:20 <Asztal> yes, google translate messes that bit up, I think
01:27:31 <oerjan> "Since the party didn't get recorded in the Party Register, the name became unregistered after parliament elections of 2005
01:27:56 <AnMaster> saying something like "killing the party's name"
01:28:35 <AnMaster> "dead parts name as a registered partys name"
01:28:53 <AnMaster> ehird, so see why I didn't use google translate
01:28:54 <lament> here in canada we have a Work Less Party
01:29:00 <lament> and today it's throwing a big party
01:29:04 <lament> the work less party party
01:29:36 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Monster_Raving_Loony_Party
01:34:49 <ehird> lament: they should throw a party about that party
01:34:54 <ehird> the work less party party party
01:35:35 <oerjan> <ehird> AnMaster: 2+2=4[citation needed HAHAHAHA I'M SO WITTY I CAN REFERENCE WIKIPEDIA] <-- i cannot give a citation for that but i hear there is a good proof for 1+1=2 in Principia Mathematica
01:35:59 <ehird> i have The Principa but I'd prefer Principa Mathematica
01:36:07 <ehird> anyone want to swap?
01:36:37 <oerjan> i think technically they both have titles starting with "Principia Mathematica", don't they?
01:36:37 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophiae_Naturalis_Principia_Mathematica that is
01:36:49 <ehird> i have that, and I would prefer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica
01:37:02 * oerjan doesn't have either, alas
01:37:47 <AnMaster> googling for "The Principia" gives "& Discordia" ...
01:38:14 <ehird> AnMaster: Principia Discordia.
01:38:20 <ehird> The religious text of Discordianism.
01:38:32 <AnMaster> just odd that it listed it at top
01:38:38 <AnMaster> and no I weren't logged in to gmail
01:41:13 <oerjan> AnMaster: presumably it's a big religion in sweden
01:42:16 <AnMaster> oerjan, hey I was just playing along.
01:42:28 <oerjan> you KNOW we cannot tell with you
01:42:48 <AnMaster> oerjan, thus I like to surprise you :)
01:43:01 <oerjan> also, you cannot tell with ehird, i've noticed :D
01:43:39 <AnMaster> oerjan, I can tell with you most of the time
01:45:05 <AnMaster> http://www63.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Religion+in+Sweden
01:45:37 <AnMaster> http://www63.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=percentage+Religion+in+Sweden
01:46:39 <oerjan> only one percentage :D
01:47:00 <AnMaster> same for http://www63.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=percentages+Religion+in+Sweden
01:47:14 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: what psu usage does your machine have?
01:47:15 <AnMaster> and http://www63.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=percentages+religions+in+Sweden
01:47:17 <ehird> http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine
01:47:31 <ehird> at 85% tdp, 90% load, no capacitor aging, my planned rig clocks 451W
01:47:43 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: put your components in, twiddle with tdp/load/capacitor aging, get estimated wattage back
01:47:56 <oerjan> the "Input interpretation" is identical, still one has a number...
01:48:29 <ehird> 100% tdp, 100% load, no capacitor aging: 521W
01:48:47 <AnMaster> why does W|A thinks it is a minority language
01:48:53 <ehird> that + 30% capacitor aging = 677W
01:49:05 <ehird> that + more realistic 20% = 625W
01:49:15 <oerjan> AnMaster: there may be some dispute on that point
01:49:35 <ehird> conclusion: even if you have 2xGTX285 in SLI and an i7 975 XE...
01:49:39 <ehird> you don't need 800W.
01:49:59 <oerjan> "Scanian was previously classified as a regional language by SIL International, but before the latest update, the Swedish representative to ISO/TC-37, the technical committee overseeing ISO 639, required that Scanian be removed from the ISO/DIS 639-3, the draft just prior to the final draft FDIS, or a positive vote from Sweden would not be forthcoming."
01:50:28 <oerjan> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanian dialects)
01:50:39 <oerjan> *(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanian_dialects)
01:50:49 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: nuh-uh; more power in a PSU = louder, and less green.
01:50:58 <ehird> admittedly green doesn't apply for these types of systems under load
01:51:02 <ehird> but for idle web browsing and IRCing...
01:51:16 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: it's not like a bigger power supply uses more power when it's not needed...
01:51:25 <oerjan> AnMaster: google gave me a redirect and i did some broken cut/paste to get the main article name
01:51:29 <ehird> sure, but lower rating tends to = better efficiency
01:51:50 * oerjan realizes he could have copied from the "Article" tab link
01:51:55 <AnMaster> oerjan, well... Skånska isn't that far off from "main" Swedish
01:51:58 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: but seriously. all that + 30% capacitor + 100% TDP + 100% load - so if you run your system at 100% load of every single component for multiple years - you're just sucking up 677W
01:52:09 <ehird> and that's a super-high power computer
01:52:13 <AnMaster> perfectly possible to understand for someone not from Skåne
01:52:17 <ehird> conclusion: 800W+ psus are crocks. :P
01:52:36 <oerjan> AnMaster: "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy"
01:52:42 <AnMaster> oerjan, while for example Samiska is harder to understand
01:52:58 <oerjan> it is from a separate ... yes
01:53:30 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: so how do you justify >800W psus with that exactly?
01:54:36 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: dude... 2xSLI of GTX285 plus i7 975 XE plus 100% load of every single component (more or less impossible) for years, with a bordering-on-unreasonable capacitor aging value...
01:54:42 <ehird> 677W... so I don't see how 800W can be good
01:55:23 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: no, I've used many calcs + own calculations
01:55:30 <ehird> it's more-or-less correct
01:55:46 <pikhq> Hmm. In WWII, the British were really, really good at handling German spies.
01:56:03 <pikhq> All but one defected.
01:56:10 <pikhq> (that one committed suicide)
01:56:15 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: shit, you can run an i7 920 + mid-range graphics card on a ~380W psu
01:56:42 <pikhq> Half of them defected on reaching Britain -- and none of them sent messages to Germany.
01:57:00 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: you do know that the vast majority of configurations have (unrealistic) absolute peaks of ~200W?
01:57:00 <bsmntbombdood> and remember, wattage ratings are pretty much the sole comparison people have between psus == greatly inflated
01:57:19 <ehird> no, they're not inflated
01:57:27 <ehird> you can run N watts on an N watt psu, always
01:57:35 <ehird> anything else would be driven out of the market
02:37:58 <GregorR> LA LA LA LA LAAAAAAAAAAAAA
03:05:40 <Sgeo> http://goatse.cx/hello.jpg
03:06:17 <oerjan> yes, we really do want to click that link, don't we.
03:07:10 <oerjan> i cannot click it, i've got this pain down my right diodes
03:08:41 <Sgeo> oerjan, /nick Marvin ?
03:09:36 <oerjan> why should i imposter our city's dear beloved ex-major?
03:09:55 <Sgeo> What's _that_ a reference to?
03:10:15 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Wiseth
03:16:34 <oerjan> i guess that's as close a pronunciation as i should expect from an american
03:17:11 <GregorR> If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for Sweden.
03:17:37 <GregorR> If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for Norway.
03:18:28 * oerjan secretly wants to trick texas into passing a constitutional amendment that all state matters must be written in the language of Jesus
03:19:38 <oerjan> alas, there is that pesky US 1st amendment i guess
03:28:37 -!- mtd has quit ("leaving").
04:35:15 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
04:42:31 <GregorR> http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Skillfully+Level+Jig
04:52:03 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving...").
04:58:59 -!- mtd has joined.
05:42:22 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
06:34:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
06:51:56 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Connection timed out).
06:53:04 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
07:21:27 -!- bsmntbombdood__ has joined.
07:21:46 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Nick collision from services.).
07:21:59 -!- bsmntbombdood__ has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
07:38:02 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined.
07:51:18 -!- bsmntbombdood__ has joined.
07:53:20 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:57:37 -!- _bsmntbombdood has joined.
07:57:59 -!- _bsmntbombdood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:07:16 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
08:08:24 -!- bsmntbombdood__ has quit (Connection timed out).
09:03:53 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:08:08 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
09:30:15 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
09:39:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
09:57:57 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:58:18 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
10:16:42 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
10:17:19 -!- Corun has joined.
10:33:46 -!- ais523 has joined.
10:37:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
10:58:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
11:00:27 -!- ais523 has joined.
11:02:46 -!- tombom has joined.
11:06:51 -!- tombom has quit (Client Quit).
11:09:25 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
11:16:03 -!- tombom has joined.
11:16:11 -!- FireFly has joined.
11:31:03 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
11:40:34 -!- ais523_ has joined.
11:42:39 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
11:49:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Nick collision from services.).
11:49:44 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
11:59:24 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
12:05:42 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2").
12:19:03 -!- ais523 has quit.
12:19:13 -!- ais523 has joined.
12:28:54 -!- ais523 has quit.
12:30:07 -!- ais523 has joined.
12:39:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:15:42 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:16:36 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
13:31:32 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:58:52 -!- oerjan has joined.
14:01:10 -!- Judofyr has joined.
14:04:14 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
14:05:43 -!- M0ny has joined.
14:46:40 -!- Judofyr_ has joined.
14:56:19 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away.
15:02:02 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
15:03:48 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:06:25 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun.
15:13:02 -!- EgoBot has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
15:13:02 -!- Gracenotes has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
15:13:02 -!- GregorR has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
15:13:02 -!- dbc has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
15:39:57 -!- EgoBot has joined.
15:39:57 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
15:39:57 -!- GregorR has joined.
15:39:57 -!- dbc has joined.
15:40:43 -!- Judofyr_ has changed nick to Judofyr.
16:16:10 <GregorR> Spam subject line: "Look here or get AIDs"
16:19:24 -!- leonid_ has joined.
16:19:30 -!- leonid_ has left (?).
16:36:09 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
16:36:34 -!- GregorR has quit ("Leaving").
16:36:51 -!- GregorR has joined.
16:49:08 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
17:13:38 -!- coppro has joined.
17:21:23 -!- FireFly has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:26:07 -!- FireFly has joined.
18:31:03 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:34:23 -!- whtspc has joined.
18:40:42 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
18:43:02 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:44:18 -!- jix has joined.
19:04:37 -!- kar8nga has joined.
19:07:23 * SimonRC just listened to The Euphio Question on the Radio.
19:08:53 <SimonRC> It answers the Fermi paradox, with only a little reading between the lines
19:09:26 -!- whtspc_ has joined.
19:09:43 <SimonRC> also, it seems, someone has put it online: http://aofisonfire.blogspot.com/2007/08/euphio-question.html
19:11:04 <GregorR> Anybody want to write a Masterpiece with me? :P
19:11:21 <ais523> what sort of masterpiece?
19:11:39 <ais523> technically speaking, a masterpiece is something a craftsman did or made to prove they were worthy of becoming a master
19:12:02 <ais523> in which case, my masterpiece is technically speaking a compiler from bSCI to Idealized Algol
19:12:10 <GregorR> http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/
19:12:54 <pikhq> ais523: That is impressive.
19:12:55 <ais523> GregorR: seems interesting, but not right now
19:13:04 <ais523> do people agree on tempo and key beforehand?
19:13:08 <ais523> or is that left to chance too?
19:14:48 <GregorR> ais523: Tempo is agreed on, key is chance.
19:15:04 <ais523> and time signature, likewise chance?
19:15:13 <GregorR> Time signature can't be chance due to how MIDI works.
19:15:31 <GregorR> But there's technically nothing stopping you from just ignoring the time signature in the MIDI and doing whatever TF you want :P
19:15:43 <ais523> I thought the time signature wasn't compulsory
19:15:49 <ais523> it's more a sort of comment with a defined meaning
19:16:13 <GregorR> MIDI records things like tempo in terms of quarter notes, regardless of the time signature, so it can get a bit wonky.
19:16:36 <GregorR> Which is why it works much better to just agree on a time signature ;)
19:16:48 <GregorR> We've been doing these for years, and found that setting the tempo and time signature is an E_GOODIDEA.
19:16:56 <SimonRC> I thought Midi worked in 1/128 sec
19:17:09 <GregorR> SimonRC: What a nice happy idealism :P
19:17:33 <SimonRC> GregorR: what, the story or what I just said
19:18:46 <SimonRC> does this mean that the action of concatenating two arbitrary bits of midi music is not trivial?
19:20:01 <GregorR> In a MIDI file it's nontrivial, I don't know about MIDI streams (e.g. talking to a MIDI device)
19:21:19 * SimonRC indicates that people might want to look at Haskore -- the Haskell music-manipulating library -- which can output MIDI
19:21:21 <ais523> streams don't have timing information at all
19:21:28 <ais523> so they're quite a bit easier
19:21:32 <GregorR> ais523: That's sort of what I guessed.
19:21:41 <SimonRC> how do you get notes to come on simultaneously?
19:21:53 <ais523> SimonRC: you send both the on messages at around the same time
19:21:57 <ais523> and send the off messages later
19:22:36 <SimonRC> ah, I guess the data rate is high enough that there is no noticeable delay between the on messages
19:23:36 * GregorR adds optional key to Masterpiece Machine.
19:23:45 <pikhq> SimonRC: The data rate is some 6kbps.
19:26:10 -!- whtspc_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]").
19:28:33 <fizzie> And there's that running-status thing so you can send a single "note-on" message followed by six data bytes specifying three "simultaneous" notes.
19:30:23 -!- whtspc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:41:37 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?).
19:52:01 -!- tetha has quit (Nick collision from services.).
19:52:11 -!- tetha has joined.
20:00:52 <jix> what is the currently best optimizing bf compiler?
20:02:54 <ais523> AnMaster would probably claim in-between beats it
20:02:57 <ais523> or has it not caught up yet?
20:03:46 <AnMaster> esotope is better at most stuff. in-between is rather close to getting as good. And in a few specific cases it does better. Some constructs.
20:04:19 <ehird> 19:18:28 * oerjan secretly wants to trick texas into passing a constitutional amendment that all state matters must be written in the language of Jesus
20:04:28 <ehird> yhwh dhrhwnr kfdrfkdjnf
20:05:40 <SimonRC> does that say anythign in particular?
20:06:16 <jix> hmmm i want to write my own optimizing bf compiler
20:06:29 <jix> since my last one is a few years old
20:06:37 <ehird> SimonRC: Hebrew doesn't have vowels LAWLZ
20:06:39 <ehird> 11:16:48 <GregorR> We've been doing these for years, and found that setting the tempo and time signature is an E_GOODIDEA.
20:06:43 <ehird> it's an error good idea?
20:06:54 <ehird> also, hi SimonRC, haven't seen you talk for a while
20:06:56 <jix> and quite messy
20:07:00 <tetha> jix: including SSA-form and other hilarious overkill?
20:07:08 <SimonRC> ehird: it takes up a lot of time
20:07:26 <ehird> SimonRC: you must live very fast :P
20:07:37 <jix> tetha: i don't know what it is
20:07:45 <jix> tetha: but from the letters i'd say yes
20:07:49 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:08:03 <jix> i'd guess it's translating into dest = src1 op src2 operations
20:08:10 <jix> optimizing/transforming them
20:08:17 <SimonRC> ehird: I can't really do anything else if I care about missign out on IRC conversations
20:08:20 <jix> and each dest is only used once
20:08:21 <tetha> ssa == static single assignement form
20:08:40 <tetha> it simplifies some analyzations and optimizations
20:08:53 <ehird> fun fact: continuation passing style = ssa
20:10:29 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:15:39 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:22:12 <MizardX> About the Billiard Ball Machine you highlighted me for a few hours ago: It doesn't have anything to do with quantum mechanics. It is just a notation the autor adopted because it probably was convenient at the time... and I don't really know anything about quantum mechanics other than a few facts about the schrödinger equation.
20:22:54 <MizardX> Well... 20 hours is a few...
20:23:00 -!- tombom has joined.
20:23:02 <ehird> *MizardX is not dead*
20:23:09 * ehird pushes those two lines together
20:25:42 <ehird> SimonRC: he said schrödinger and quantum mechanics QED.
20:26:16 <MizardX> That is how much I know about it...
20:26:52 <ehird> A MOUNTAIN OF INVISIBLE QUANTUMS
20:30:13 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2").
20:31:50 -!- tombom has joined.
20:34:54 -!- tombom has quit (Client Quit).
20:44:37 -!- olsner has joined.
20:57:14 -!- Slereah has joined.
20:59:41 -!- M0ny has quit ("Read error: 182 (Connection reset by beer)").
21:12:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:12:37 -!- GuestGoldenDog has joined.
21:16:08 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:16:09 -!- GuestGoldenDog has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:20:54 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
21:21:09 -!- GuestGoldenDog has joined.
21:21:10 -!- GuestGoldenDog has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:21:24 -!- GuestGoldenDog has joined.
21:21:39 -!- GuestGoldenDog has changed nick to Slereah.
21:24:13 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:24:26 -!- Slereah has joined.
21:37:21 -!- psygnisfive has joined.
22:00:45 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:02:53 <tetha> hm, implementing context-transforming automatas is charming and would reduce the implementation of a lot of esoteric languages to very few lines
22:04:07 <tetha> oerjan: basically you could transform a program into it's control flow graph, annotate that with implementations of the basic operations and tell it to evaluate with a base context
22:06:43 * oerjan realizes his brain is in that horrible mush state again
22:07:19 <tetha> SimonRC: e.g. brainfuck: you need a parser, a representation of the state (tape + head position) and an implementation for each opcode and you're done, given this library
22:07:30 <oerjan> the tiniest irritating noise, and it becomes _painful_ to think
22:09:00 <oerjan> tetha: sounds pretty much like how i do tiny interpreters in haskell
22:09:10 <ehird> 22:04 tetha: oerjan: basically you could transform a program into it's control flow graph, annotate that with implementations of the basic operations and tell it to evaluate with a base context ← that's hot.
22:09:16 <tetha> oerjan: pretty much, yes
22:09:17 <ehird> oklopol would be all over that
22:13:11 <jix> the bf compiler i work on is/will be written in haskell
22:13:23 <oerjan> <ehird> SimonRC: Hebrew doesn't have vowels LAWLZ
22:13:36 <oerjan> the language of Jesus was probably aramaic, not hebrew
22:13:44 <ehird> aramic is a derivative of hebrew
22:13:47 <ehird> "Pirate Party Wins and Enters The European Parliament"
22:14:05 <oerjan> although they are both semitic languages, so probably similar writing principles
22:14:23 <jix> the german pirate party didn't make it
22:14:43 <oerjan> ehird: not derivative, sister language
22:15:04 <ehird> jix: not surprising; Sweden's a lot more liberal
22:15:43 <jix> ehird: at leat in my city it was the strongest non etablished party
22:16:03 <tetha> in luebeck, it horribly lost :(
22:16:06 <jix> they got a bit over 1% here
22:16:53 <ehird> european parliament
22:17:04 <tetha> at least SOME sane people in there
22:17:26 <jix> tetha: in luebeck they are on place 6 too
22:18:06 <tetha> oh. curse you, firefox cache
22:18:19 <jix> tetha: you live in luebeck?
22:18:30 <jix> cool i'm going to move there later this year
22:18:51 <jix> are you studying there?
22:19:02 <tetha> yes, computer science, second master term
22:20:00 <jix> will start computer science there
22:20:17 <tetha> so you will have some saner study plan
22:25:39 <FireFly> The Pirate Party will get one spot, yeah
22:26:04 <SimonRC> has anyone read much of the VPRI's stuff?
22:26:48 <ehird> SimonRC: cola language ya mean?
22:26:57 -!- Slereah has quit.
22:27:01 <ehird> always been too buzzwordy and all-encompassing when I've looked at it
22:28:58 <SimonRC> first I thought that it would be nice for the language parser to be available to me, or rather for all its parts to be available to build new specialised parsers from
22:29:24 <SimonRC> then I realised that the smug you-know-what weenies have been going on about this for decades
22:29:41 <SimonRC> and indeed the non-smug non-weenie ones
22:30:03 <SimonRC> but the problem I see now in Java is partly attitude
22:30:13 -!- Slereah has joined.
22:30:38 <SimonRC> they don't want to add things like lambdas even though the JVM would suport them
22:31:05 <SimonRC> and quite recently I have found a reasonable use for run-time compilation
22:52:57 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server").
23:08:03 -!- coppro has joined.
23:28:30 <jix> anyone knows some haskell here? ... is there something like a monad... except an operator like >>= but with type M a -> (a -> M a) -> M a instead of M a -> (a -> M b) -> (M b)
23:29:09 <jix> like a monad where a computation can't change the type
23:29:32 <oerjan> obviously you can define such a thing
23:29:49 <jix> but if there is a typeclass for such things already
23:29:54 <jix> i'd use that
23:30:01 <oerjan> note however that then you cannot change the a at all within a single composed computation
23:30:46 <oerjan> so it's really sort of M -> (a -> M) -> M
23:31:31 <oerjan> where you just happen to be able to parametrize on A
23:32:02 <SimonRC> can you express it as a comonad?
23:32:02 <oerjan> could be swapped into (A -> M) -> M -> M
23:32:15 <oerjan> i cannot quite think of anything
23:33:36 <oerjan> SimonRC: comonads still have varying a and b, just in the "other direction"
23:33:36 <SimonRC> things that look a bit like monads but aren't sometimes turn out to be comonads
23:33:41 <jix> it's like a special case of a monad
23:33:59 <oerjan> a state transition seems a bit similar
23:34:19 <oerjan> like, just the state part of a State monad, but without the return value
23:35:08 <oerjan> in fact there is a generalization of "parametrized" monads just to be able to do things like changing the state type during a state monad computation
23:35:13 <jix> hmmm if such a thing exists
23:35:27 <jix> every monad is such a thing
23:35:45 <jix> (exists as in is in the haskell "stdlib")
23:35:45 <oerjan> so State a (), for example
23:35:59 <oerjan> or StateT a m () for any monad m
23:36:31 <oerjan> hm wait that also gives a state out
23:36:51 <jix> and it would make sense to define things which touch only one type... like return for it instead of monad
23:36:54 <jix> but that isn't the case
23:37:02 <jix> so i assume it isn't there
23:37:33 <jix> i need it for a thing that stores multiple values
23:37:39 <oerjan> it sort of requires functional dependency M -> A
23:37:40 <jix> and i want to do computations to some of them
23:37:50 <jix> but not all
23:39:13 <oerjan> jix: but in a sense your M a's do contain a's in them?
23:40:55 <jix> can't be i'm the first who needs something like that
23:42:10 <jix> it would make sense to move everything of monad that has just one free type (or whatever they are called) into that thing
23:42:27 <jix> and define the things with more than one free type for it with a different name
23:42:31 <jix> then make monad an instance of it
23:42:32 <oerjan> well the question is why can't you just use a monad?
23:42:35 <SimonRC> this may sound like a dumb question...
23:43:00 * oerjan swats SimonRC for his stupidity -----###
23:43:13 <jix> SimonRC: i asked that question myself
23:44:02 <jix> oerjan: take the list monad
23:44:14 <jix> oerjan: you want >>= to apply only to the first element instead of all
23:44:20 <jix> but keep all the other elements
23:44:26 <jix> that's what i need exactly
23:44:44 <oerjan> jix: also, haskell's type classes don't support making every instance of an older type class into an instance of a newer without problems
23:45:01 <oerjan> jix: that example has nothing to do with _types_
23:45:17 <oerjan> only position, which is not a type thing
23:45:17 <jix> oerjan: well try to implement >>= for it
23:45:37 <jix> and you'll see the problem
23:45:43 <oerjan> huh? well apart from >>= already being defined for lists
23:45:48 <jix> you can't keep the elements you wan't to stay there
23:45:51 <jix> because they have the type a
23:45:58 <jix> where they should have the type b after >>=
23:46:14 <oerjan> oh ... i see, you want to _keep_ the others
23:46:53 <oerjan> you could do that by using "id" as what you did to the others
23:47:30 <jix> oerjan: nope
23:47:31 <jix> because i only have one >>=
23:48:01 <oerjan> something like it should work
23:49:04 <oerjan> this would of course totally break the monad laws, even restricted to a single type
23:49:28 <jix> uhm i'm pretty sure what i want to do follows the monad laws
23:52:07 <jix> (when restricted to a single type)
23:52:07 <oerjan> does it? (x >>= f) >>= g == x >>= (\a -> f a >>= g) ?
23:52:07 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving").
23:52:07 <oerjan> is the "do only to first element" a relevant example?
23:52:07 <jix> it is exactly what i want
23:52:07 <ehird> jix: erm isn't this just a monad where the return type = the input type?
23:52:15 <jix> ehird: yeah
23:52:36 <ehird> butt :: m a -> (a -> m a) -> m a; butt = (>>=)
23:52:41 <oerjan> ehird: his problem is he cannot make it an actual monad instance
23:53:19 <ehird> class MonadBondage m where zoop :: a -> m a; butt :: m a -> (a -> m a) -> m a
23:53:42 <oerjan> ehird: he wants to know if it fits into something already existing
23:53:48 <jix> oerjan: no
23:54:00 <jix> oerjan: or i got you wrong
23:54:06 <ehird> it's like monad w/o functor
23:54:13 <oerjan> jix: then what the heck do you want
23:54:24 <oerjan> ehird: applicative subclasses functor
23:56:12 <jix> http://nopaste.com/p/aG1fE2Xa4 << this
23:56:12 <oerjan> jix: i think State [a] a is pretty close
23:56:12 <jix> (it doesn't work of course)
23:59:18 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:59:18 -!- nooga has joined.
23:59:18 <oerjan> what is the use of this?
23:59:34 <nooga> also, shoe on head
23:59:35 <jix> oerjan: i thought it would be a nice way to do the simple parsing stuff i have to do here
23:59:49 <nooga> jix: what are you up to?