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00:08:14 <bsmntbombdood_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Direct-blood-transfusion.jpg
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00:36:39 <pikhq> GregorR: Normal blood transfusions are about as safe, actually. The only difference is a bag and shipping between donor and receipient.
00:37:00 <Slereah_> Normal blood transfusions have a screening procedure
00:37:13 <GregorR> And you can be sure you won't get any EVIL GAY BLOOD.
00:41:19 <Slereah_> Trust me, you don't want to be hit on by a zombie
00:41:45 <GregorR> Only gay zombies hit on people, or there are no female zombies? :P
00:42:09 <GregorR> Or, if I can judge by my past, I am only capable of being hit on by men?
00:42:36 <oerjan> <AnMaster> damn oerjan isn't here <-- i haven't listened to the iwc podcasts actually, should do that some time
00:43:13 <AnMaster> oerjan, the first one is horrible though
00:43:49 <oerjan> i recall reading they have horrible volume control, or something
00:45:10 <AnMaster> ehird, any idea about how to get high res timer for MIDI working under ubuntu?
00:45:18 <AnMaster> rosegarden is giving me errors
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00:45:29 <AnMaster> only way seems to build a custom kernel
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00:45:54 <ehird> AnMaster: what's the issue
00:46:21 <AnMaster> ehird, rosegarden needs a 1000 Hz kernel or a snd-rtctimer kernel to be able to record midi
00:46:30 <ehird> ubuntu studio has a realtime kernel
00:46:34 <ehird> it might be packaged in ubuntu
00:46:46 <ehird> The real-time kernel included with Ubuntu Studio 9.04 is modified for intensive audio, video or graphics work. The scheduler allows applications to request immediate CPU time, which can drastically reduce audio latency[2]. The 8.10 release lacks this real-time kernel, but it has been reimplemented in the 9.04 release.
00:47:49 <pikhq> The realtime patches will be integrated in $SOON.
00:47:49 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway for MIDI I don't need all that, just snd-rtctimer
00:48:13 <AnMaster> since I'm only doing MIDI I don't even need to bother about jack here
00:48:13 <ehird> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/317120
00:48:27 <ehird> aren't .kos like dynamic kernel objects?
00:48:36 <ehird> so you could just compile snd-rtctimer
00:49:12 <AnMaster> ehird, read a few comments below
00:49:24 <AnMaster> ehird, comment 3 to be specific
00:49:37 <ehird> not sure; ask on ubuntuforums?
00:49:51 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm doing it on my desktop
00:50:00 <ehird> AnMaster: by the way, I found out what the foo..bar stuff in the k life is
00:50:43 <ehird> basically, every variable (K has a whole directory tree of variables; foo.bar.baz is a dictionary as in foo[`bar][`baz] etc) has a set of attributes
00:50:53 <ehird> which is a dictionary of auxiliary information
00:50:56 <ehird> it's referenced as var.
00:51:01 <ehird> to get the attribute x
00:51:14 <AnMaster> ehird, my desktop has a 2.6.30 kernel, which handles the issue
00:51:22 <ehird> and i gather that the GUI uses these to define things about how to display and manipulate stuff
00:51:31 <ehird> since `show$2, just shows 2
00:51:35 <ehird> as opposed to, like, other ways of showing it, i guess
00:51:38 <ehird> haven't got that far yet
00:52:07 <ehird> AnMaster: if you didn't want to know, you could have not asked
00:52:23 <AnMaster> ehird, well, I didn't know it would be like that
00:52:33 <ehird> would you prefer a kitten or something?
00:52:43 <AnMaster> ehird, would have preferred a one-liner
00:53:01 <ehird> Quick; give me the Erlang spec in one line.
00:53:59 <AnMaster> I wonder what tempo http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/CthulhuIsComingToTown.pdf is in...
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00:54:10 * AnMaster tries to determine by listening
00:54:18 <ehird> same as santa clause is coming to down
00:54:42 <AnMaster> ehird, I mean, I know Swedish xmas songs
00:54:44 <ehird> aren't all the iwc songs parodies.
00:54:57 <AnMaster> "We wish you a merry Christmas"
00:55:19 <AnMaster> and there are some both in Swedish and English
00:55:32 <AnMaster> ehird, some I notice, others I just wouldn't know
00:55:43 <AnMaster> however I noticed choice of music was very odd in a few
00:56:02 <AnMaster> http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/podcast017.html
00:56:43 <AnMaster> which is definitely not wedding music
00:57:07 <AnMaster> a famous classical music piece yes, but NOT wedding music
00:57:15 <AnMaster> maybe I should contact DMM about that
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00:57:52 <AnMaster> oh wait, it seems it is in America
01:00:20 <GregorR> Love and carriage, love and carriage; go together like a horse and marriage!
01:01:11 <AnMaster> anyway, to me Canon sounds definitely wrong for wedding music
01:01:32 <AnMaster> GregorR, could you record http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/CthulhuIsComingToTown.pdf :D
01:02:29 <GregorR> Looks like just another rendition of Santa Claus is Coming to Town, with different lyrics ... no great purpose in replaying that.
01:03:59 <AnMaster> GregorR, kay. got a link to "santa claus is coming to town"?
01:04:06 <AnMaster> since I don't know this piece of music
01:04:19 <GregorR> I guess it's too American slash Hooray Commercialism :P
01:04:27 <GregorR> `google youtube santa claus is coming to town
01:04:29 <HackEgo> \ [15]YouTube - Santa Claus is Coming to Town
01:04:58 <ehird> it's a very bad song
01:05:34 <GregorR> But, but, he's making a list!
01:05:41 <AnMaster> I like the IWC rendition of it
01:05:42 <ehird> I wonder why youtube seems to list a bunch of bruce springsteen ones first
01:05:50 <ehird> after a brief listen it seems i've mostly heard the jackson 5 rendition
01:06:23 <GregorR> Every time I look for a song on YouTube, the top results are always the Three Tenors, and I always wind up disappointed.
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01:07:04 * AnMaster tries to figure out which computer has which set of headphones connected
01:07:14 <AnMaster> one of them has onboard and a sound card
01:07:51 <ehird> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS1Yysc9qHo
01:08:01 <ehird> warning: bad song.
01:09:03 <ehird> in K you can make strings show as buttons instead of strings
01:09:05 <ehird> and that evaluates them on click
01:09:07 <ehird> i love how dynamic it is
01:09:09 <ehird> oklopol would love it
01:09:23 <ehird> it exactly fits his "show the object directly with metadata about how it's shown" thingy
01:10:16 <AnMaster> <ehird> I wonder why youtube seems to list a bunch of bruce springsteen ones first <-- those seems better than the one you linked...
01:10:29 <ehird> that doesn't mean they're the most common rendition
01:10:42 <ehird> which is generally the thing you'd want to know when someone says "what does this sound like"
01:10:58 <AnMaster> ehird, actually the bruce springsteen one sound a bit familiar
01:11:09 <ehird> Maybe sweden has better musical tastes than the uk then
01:11:37 <AnMaster> ehird, actually I think it is my parents who have better musical taste simply.
01:12:54 <AnMaster> ehird, extensive vinyl collection. Well, not extreme. Just about 1.5 meters of shelf space or so
01:14:01 <AnMaster> would change the first one to match one starting with s
01:14:55 <AnMaster> would then add the original missing / to <AnMaster> s/oh/on
01:15:06 <AnMaster> ehird, what? don't you know sed?
01:15:12 <FireFly> [02:14:36] <AnMaster> <AnMaster> /^s/s/$/\//
01:15:20 <FireFly> Isn't that too many (non-escaped) forward slashes?
01:15:32 <ehird> no, s is a sed command
01:15:37 <ehird> coming after the position change
01:15:39 <FireFly> Or am I missing something?
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01:15:53 <AnMaster> only applies on line with the word foo
01:16:09 <FireFly> so a matcher and a substitution regex, combined?
01:16:27 <AnMaster> FireFly, lots of more commands supported
01:16:40 <FireFly> I've only ever used sed for s///
01:16:48 <FireFly> Guess I should read about it some day
01:17:07 <AnMaster> FireFly, I don't know much more than s p and q
01:20:11 <ehird> the code is just so short
01:20:21 <AnMaster> ehird, I need synergy to forward sound too
01:20:39 <ehird> surely there's a networked sound daemon.
01:20:43 <ehird> also, it sounds like you want plan 9
01:20:47 <ehird> everything is networked and shared!
01:20:54 <ehird> just do the equivalent of
01:20:55 <AnMaster> ehird, sure. except with a GUI I can stand
01:21:01 <ehird> 'bind /n/desktop/sound /dev/sound'
01:21:06 <ehird> and your sound goes to the desktop
01:21:10 <ehird> AnMaster: Plan 9's UI is great.
01:21:13 <AnMaster> ehird, which soundcard on the desktop
01:21:14 <ehird> you're just not used to it.
01:21:22 <ehird> AnMaster: ehh, there's prolly something for that
01:21:24 <ehird> I was giving an example
01:21:35 <ehird> AnMaster: ehh, there's prolly something for that
01:21:35 <ehird> AnMaster: ehh, there's prolly something for that
01:21:37 <AnMaster> I use *hardware mixer* on desktop
01:21:38 <ehird> I was giving an example
01:21:58 <AnMaster> but, I need something that I can run most software on
01:22:06 <ehird> plan 9 has a posix emulation environment :P
01:22:06 <AnMaster> and that can handle wlan and so on
01:22:14 <AnMaster> ehird, can it handle my wlan? ;P
01:22:19 <ehird> almost certainly not.
01:22:45 <AnMaster> ehird, there you go then. I wonder if making plan9 handle stuff or adding those concepts to linux would be easiest
01:23:09 <ehird> Glendix is trying to build Plan 9 on top of the Linux kernel but it's not pretty.
01:23:16 <AnMaster> ehird, and yes, I would like to be able to treat them as one computer at times, and as different computers at other times
01:23:31 <AnMaster> ehird, since one is running KDE and the other gnome, clearly trying to combine them isn't trivial
01:23:44 <ehird> K's variable hierarchy is basically a filesystem, it's interesting
01:23:48 <ehird> perhaps filesystems aren't all bad...
01:24:17 <AnMaster> ehird, if they were a bad concept, it wouldn't be so common
01:24:24 <ehird> ..................
01:24:26 <AnMaster> I mean, sure some would still use it
01:24:33 <ehird> [01:24] AnMaster: ehird, if they were a bad concept, it wouldn't be so common
01:24:36 <ehird> You are everything wrong with everything.
01:24:42 <ehird> Aren't you an atheist, I recall?
01:24:44 <oklopol> for being common, you need to be a *local* optimum, you don't need to be a global optimum
01:24:51 <ehird> You know that >90% of the population is religious?
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01:24:56 <ehird> So it obviously can't be a bad concept.
01:25:03 <ehird> So why aren't you religious?
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01:25:40 <AnMaster> ehird, SHOULD there be sound and solid proof I'm prepared to change my point of view.
01:26:02 <AnMaster> however, I don't find that likely
01:26:02 <ehird> You are justifying filesystems by saying "if they weren't an okay idea, they wouldn't be so common."
01:26:11 <ehird> I am justifying religion by saying "if it wasn't an okay idea, it wouldn't be so common".
01:26:23 <ehird> You are saying that using filesystems is good because of this.
01:26:27 <ehird> And should be done.
01:26:29 <AnMaster> ehird, well, I believe in that computer scientists are at least not completely irrational
01:26:30 <ehird> So why aren't you religious?
01:26:46 <AnMaster> it takes a certain amount of intelligence to program a computer
01:26:51 <ehird> AnMaster: I don't believe that.
01:27:02 <ehird> A cursory glance at any modern "architecture" can dispel any myth of sanity.
01:27:12 <ehird> We're *used* to APIs not doing what they say and breaking in random ways.
01:27:18 <AnMaster> sure, there are stupid ones, but even the plain english creator needs to be able to understand a few bits of basic
01:27:19 <ehird> We build things around making working around this less painful.
01:27:34 <ehird> Modern CS produced Java.
01:27:38 <ehird> It is simply not sane.
01:28:02 <AnMaster> ehird, um... depends. the uni I'm going to also uses python in some cources
01:28:18 <ehird> ...what part are you contradicting?
01:28:31 <ehird> Modern CS, inarguably, produced Java.
01:28:39 <ehird> Modern CS, inarguably, does the other things I said.
01:28:42 <AnMaster> ehird, well that could be true
01:28:52 <ehird> AnMaster: do you know how many programmers work on windows?
01:29:40 <AnMaster> ehird, why haven't one of the old smart ones (joke intended) suggested anything new? Or have Knuth suggested a replacement for file systems for example?
01:29:50 <ehird> Knuth's work doesn't use filesystems.
01:29:52 <AnMaster> maybe he has, and I'm just ignorant
01:30:03 <ehird> It's entirely algorithmic,.
01:30:08 <AnMaster> ehird, well, in his day-to-day usage of computers he would still end up using them
01:30:21 <ehird> AnMaster: yeah, and one of the original unix guys uses windows as his day to day OS
01:30:24 <AnMaster> ehird, so while his book might not cover them
01:30:25 <ehird> with plan 9 in a window
01:30:34 <ehird> that doesn't mean he thinks windows is a good model of an OS.
01:30:46 <ehird> and it doesn't mean that by not suggesting something better, he thinks it's good
01:31:24 <pikhq> ehird: Modern CS did not produce Java.
01:31:33 <pikhq> Modern "software engineering" produced Java.
01:31:51 <ehird> pikhq: If you think they differ outside of the very best institutions then you're blind...
01:31:51 <AnMaster> ehird, doing nothing about it won't make it better
01:32:17 <pikhq> ehird: It's a result of much software engineering getting labeled as computer science that you say that.
01:32:30 <AnMaster> clearly this could be taken into a communist discussion
01:32:34 <pikhq> When, in fact, the two are about as different as calculation and mathematics.
01:32:47 <ehird> pikhq: Going by your definition, CS barely exists.
01:32:55 <AnMaster> something about standing up to the oppression of microsoft
01:32:57 <ehird> (Only slightly more than the imaginary 0 at the end of 0.9 recurring.)
01:33:10 <ehird> AnMaster: Consent by silence? brb, rapefest →
01:33:32 <pikhq> ehird: Yes, "computer science" as I consider it is a field of mathematics.
01:33:52 <ehird> Anyway, then, CS didn't produce filesystems.
01:33:57 <ehird> He was referring to CS people as liking filesystems.
01:34:07 <ehird> So, your definition of CS isn't the one he was using, at least, so I will not use it wrt him.
01:34:25 <ehird> The modern CS that likes filesystems is insane; although K is showing that at least filesystems may not be inherently insane.
01:34:26 <AnMaster> well, who produced file systems then
01:34:45 <AnMaster> ehird, thought you weren't religious?
01:35:03 <ehird> Yes, well, I cannot think of any other explanation.
01:35:08 <ehird> Maybe Russell's Teapot dunnit.
01:35:25 <AnMaster> ehird, hm... evil teapot overlord?
01:35:35 <AnMaster> I think you may be on to something
01:35:50 <ehird> Flying Spaghetti Monster is a NWO Illuminati conspiracy !
01:35:52 <pikhq> I'll just say that filesystems are not a UNIX invention.
01:35:58 <ehird> Russell's Teapot is what "They" don't want you to know about
01:36:00 <AnMaster> least you will suddenly be visited by SNMP Men in Black
01:36:08 <ehird> Read more about the reptilian teapot conspiracy>>>
01:36:34 <AnMaster> that doesn't even look like a link
01:36:48 <ehird> Erm... <i> is italics.
01:36:51 <ehird> I was joking because of the <i/>.
01:36:52 <pikhq> Actually, who *did* invent filesystems?
01:36:58 <ehird> The conspiracists websites are uh, bad
01:37:20 <AnMaster> anywya, did ANYONE get my pun above
01:37:53 <pikhq> I'm still not sure, but apparently Ritchie invented the *hierarchical* filesystem.
01:38:00 <AnMaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_information_base http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_In_Black
01:38:20 <oklopol> right, thought it'd be something like that
01:39:13 <ehird> AnMaster: Task Load Automation?
01:39:31 <AnMaster> ehird, did you make that one up just now, or does it actually exist?
01:39:49 <pikhq> IBM. IBM invented filesystems.
01:39:52 <pikhq> That explains so much.
01:40:37 <pikhq> AnMaster: Sun is a UNIX vendor.
01:40:44 <ehird> Sun are slightly more sane... in that they've always emphasised the network.
01:40:45 <pikhq> That's the first thing they did.
01:41:03 <pikhq> So. It's not likely that they'd invent filesystems in general.
01:41:10 <AnMaster> those auto generated by virtualbox's configure tools
01:42:40 <ehird> [[Atkinson [author of hypercard - e] recalled engineers at Apple drawing network schematics in the form of a bunch of boxes linked together. Sun engineers, however, first drew the network's backbone and then hung boxes off of it. It's a critical difference, and he feels it hindered him.]]
01:42:40 <ehird> http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mac/commentary/cultofmac/2002/08/54370
01:42:57 <ehird> and their work on thin clients etc, although i don't like thin clients they were good to explore
01:43:22 <ehird> Hypercard's pretty neato.
01:43:33 <AnMaster> ehird, I only saw "hypercard player"
01:43:42 <ehird> I never saw either!
01:43:59 <AnMaster> ehird, so tell me. why is it neato
01:44:31 <ehird> Eh, read the article, but.
01:44:46 <ehird> It was sort of like a database and sort of like hypertext
01:44:49 <ehird> and sort of like a collection of objects
01:44:56 <ehird> and sort of like a programming language with a GUI
01:45:07 <AnMaster> ehird, there were these silly cards
01:45:18 <AnMaster> everything seemed based on pages yes
01:45:35 <AnMaster> don't remember details about that though
01:45:38 <ehird> Yes, well, I never claimed it was perfect.
01:46:02 <ehird> The Myst computer game franchise, initially released as a HyperCard stack and included bundled with some Macs (for example the Performa 5300), still lives on, making HyperCard a facilitating technology for starting one of the best-selling computer games of all time.[citation needed]
01:46:02 <ehird> According to Ward Cunningham, the inventor of Wikis, the wiki concept can be traced back to a HyperCard stack he wrote in the late 1980s, making HyperCard one of the grandparents of the Wiki idea.[7][8][9]
01:46:06 <ehird> haha, Myst was originally in hypercard?
01:46:27 <Sgeo> Is http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=206 supposed to be difficult?
01:46:40 <AnMaster> ehird, so not fixed size I guess
01:46:43 <ehird> Sgeo: did your script take more than 1 minute to run?
01:46:52 <ehird> AnMaster: why do you say that?
01:46:57 * Sgeo didn't try it yet, but it looks like it's easy to bruteforce
01:47:06 <ehird> [01:46] AnMaster: ehird, so not fixed size I guess
01:47:07 <AnMaster> ehird, because myst runs full screen
01:47:16 <ehird> ... they didn't say released
01:47:40 <AnMaster> ehird, yes it is a hyercard stack on the cd
01:47:54 <AnMaster> I was a bit surprised when I found it out
01:48:06 <ehird> The original Macintosh version of Myst was constructed in HyperCard. Each Age was a unique HyperCard stack. Navigation was handled by the internal button system and HyperTalk scripts, with image and QuickTime movie display passed off to various plugins; essentially, Myst functions as a series of separate multimedia slides linked together by commands
01:48:12 <ehird> so it was fixed size, I guess
01:48:28 * pikhq discovers Haiku OS...
01:48:45 <AnMaster> ehird, well. I meant fixed size hypercard main window
01:48:50 <pikhq> They aim to have binary compatibility with BeOS. Because of this, it is built with both GCC 4 and GCC 2.
01:49:08 <AnMaster> ehird, well, discovering it I meant
01:49:14 <AnMaster> ehird, what about that "scan vinyl" one
01:49:16 <ehird> goodbye, cruel world!
01:49:47 <AnMaster> ehird, just pointing out you are as inconsistent as I am :P
01:51:38 <AnMaster> ehird, pretty sure you said so
01:51:49 <AnMaster> ehird, it is well worth playing
01:52:00 <AnMaster> sure, it is old by today's standards
01:52:09 <AnMaster> it was advanced, 256 colour graphics
01:52:32 <AnMaster> and it had a black border around even at 640x480
01:53:36 <pikhq> ehird: You would be amused to note that MULTICS had orthagonal persistence.
01:53:49 <ehird> orthagonal? is that like orthogonal gonads
01:54:22 <ehird> Multics implemented a single level store for data access, discarding the clear distinction between files (called segments in Multics) and process memory. The memory of a process consisted solely of segments which were mapped into its address space. To read or write to them, the process simply used normal CPU instructions, and the operating system took care of making sure that all the modifications were saved to disk. In POSIX terminology, it was as if every f
01:54:35 <ehird> So, an actually sane system.
01:54:42 <ehird> oklopol: try K, you'll like its gui
01:55:40 <oklopol> ehird: is it easy to get on windows :\
01:55:49 <ehird> AnMaster: that is not the important part...........
01:55:55 <oklopol> i mean let's face it, it needs to be easy to install :)
01:56:05 <ehird> oklopol: http://nsl.com/misc/int/ grab kwin.zip and kdoc.zip
01:56:16 <ehird> follow kusr.pdf; it introduces everything and the gui and shit
01:56:30 <AnMaster> <ehird> Multics implemented a single level store for data access, discarding the clear distinction between files (called segments in Multics) and process memory. The memory of a process consisted solely of segments which were mapped into its address space. To read or write to them, the process simply used normal CPU instructions, and the operating system took care of making sure that all the modificat
01:56:30 <AnMaster> ions were saved to disk. In POSIX terminology, it was as if every
01:56:31 <oklopol> introduces the language se well?
01:56:36 <ehird> AnMaster: wikipedia
01:56:50 <ehird> AnMaster: multics.
01:57:11 <ehird> oklopol: a lot of it is similar to j, 'cept not so many mathematical functions
01:57:20 <ehird> btw the awesome stuff about the gui comes a bit after the start
01:57:29 <ehird> but you literally show objects directly
01:57:35 <ehird> and they have metaattributes controlling how they're showed
01:57:40 <ehird> and they all autoupdate when they change anywhere
01:58:29 <ehird> oklopol: and gui code is ridiculously short in it
01:58:37 <ehird> i mean, it's literally as easy to code a gui as to code a console app in another lang
02:00:43 <AnMaster> ehird, how hard is it to code a console app in it then
02:00:55 <ehird> i don't even know if there is a print function
02:01:24 <ehird> the gui mode lis beautiful
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02:01:58 <AnMaster> ehird, what about layout and such
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02:02:14 <ehird> elegantly and without introducing new concepts
02:02:23 <ehird> AnMaster: well the widgets themselves aren't terribly pretty, but
02:02:31 <AnMaster> without you having to tell how they should line up
02:02:38 <ehird> http://nsl.com/papers/life/o001.png
02:08:14 <oklopol> ehird: k doesn't have bignums?
02:08:31 <ehird> doesn't have by default i think
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02:34:34 <oklopol> i haven't played with it that much yet
02:34:45 <oklopol> i'm wasting my time in many other ways as well
02:38:15 * Sgeo slaps himself for a stupid off-by-one error
02:38:51 * Sgeo accidentally counted 1 as a prime
02:40:27 <Sgeo> Also, it may have taken 2 min to come up with an answer, and in the thread, I'm seeing answers determined in seconds
02:40:39 <ehird> anything over 1m means you failed.
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02:50:11 <oerjan> thai ming is of the essence
03:03:57 * coppro can't believe he's doing what he's doing
03:05:31 <oerjan> you wicked, wicked man
03:06:06 <coppro> reinstalling every package on my computer is sure to cause headaches
03:13:43 <Sgeo> coppro, why are you doing it?
03:15:21 <coppro> Sgeo: my system's become increasingly unstable. I want to rule out FS/disk corruption, which means I did a badblocks scan, and now need to make sure all the system files are correct
03:17:32 <coppro> since clearly the FS scan was insufficient
03:18:46 <oerjan> it's probably due to radioactivity. check your house for radon pollution.
03:19:35 <pikhq> No, no, no. Don't listen to that fool.
03:19:42 <pikhq> It is *definitely* due to radioactivity.
03:19:46 <pikhq> Evacuate the country.
03:19:52 <pikhq> Possibly also the continent.
03:20:05 <oerjan> You mean the solar system.
03:20:06 <pikhq> If you want to be really sure, move to the moon.
03:20:21 <coppro> oerjan: I'd believe that if the Windows partition were showing any signs of instability
03:20:26 <pikhq> oerjan: I should have specified.
03:20:42 <pikhq> oerjan: The Moon, after sending it to Alpha Centauri.
03:21:57 <oerjan> that'll only keep us safe for four years or so, though.
03:22:09 <pikhq> Though it might be safer to move it out of the galaxy.
03:22:22 <oerjan> yes, that may be best.
03:22:48 <coppro> if this doesn't work, what do you think I should try? Probably not a hardware issue (see: Windows) though I rarely use Windows in a taxing manner
03:23:02 <coppro> it's not a drivers issue; I've tried with older kernels and it's still unstable
03:24:15 <oerjan> try reversing the polarity.
03:24:30 <coppro> I know! I'll try logarithms!
03:27:57 <coppro> pikhq: currently trying
03:28:15 <pikhq> coppro: No, I mean logarithms fix everything.
03:28:35 <coppro> except they are bad for passing yourself off as an engineer
03:29:02 <oklopol> is coppro's thing keeping to the issue no matter how little others actually contribute except for puns and jokes
03:29:56 <coppro> yes, I appear to make the bizarre assumption that a conversation will stay ontopic
03:30:06 <coppro> really, what am I thinking?
03:30:32 <oerjan> i recall a conversation that stayed ontopic once. i think it was back in '96 or so...
03:31:04 <oerjan> it's only a vague recall, as usual.
03:31:17 <oklopol> i mean "it might be radioactive" "no, i don't think so, windows isn't affected" ... "reorganize solar system!" "what if that doesn't work, drivers blah blah"
03:31:43 <oklopol> that's just great stuff, i'm a copprophiliac already
03:32:24 * coppro wonders if that would be funnier if he didn't get the joke
03:32:39 <oklopol> coppro: mostly it was not a joke
03:32:49 <coppro> oklopol: the "copprophiliac" line
03:33:36 <oklopol> i just wanted to mention i appreciated your way of conversing with lunatics, that line was just security by obscurity
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03:34:19 <coppro> quick! grab a deep-fryer!
03:34:21 <oklopol> wait, calamari's are a bit bigger than fireflies maybe
03:34:31 <oerjan> but but i might get ink on the swatter!
03:34:48 <oklopol> used it a lot before the swatter
03:35:13 <oerjan> i think the swatter was first. well, the first swatter.
03:35:35 <oklopol> well i just assumed because the swatter is the most recent thingie
03:36:04 <coppro> the deep-fryer isn't for swatting :(
03:36:14 <oerjan> wait it's not a frying pan, it's a sauce pan
03:37:14 <oerjan> i'm afraid i have nothing deep, it won't fit on a line
03:39:20 <oerjan> oklopol doing pushups?
03:39:26 <oklopol> well i'm guessing it's some sorta spider
03:40:22 <calamari> in my absense I see I've been swatted, fried, and deep-fried
03:40:59 <oklopol> calamari: well what do you expect, having been idle for over 5 minutes
03:41:40 <oerjan> it liveth without a liver!
03:41:51 <coppro> calamari: impressive. Usually swatting alone is good to remove a squid's self-awareness, but you seem to have even noticed the deep-frying!
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03:47:52 <oklopol> we're playing name an algo
03:47:54 <oerjan> oklopol: i see you are going with the flow
03:48:23 <oklopol> oerjan: i see you can infer a lot from what i'm typing.
03:50:56 <oerjan> eek what have i started
03:51:21 <oklopol> you seem to know your algos
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03:52:01 <oklopol> i have no idea what the things after RLE are
03:52:29 <oklopol> guess i know vle too, then
03:53:29 <Mnemosyne> wonderful compression algo for monochrome displays
03:53:55 <Mnemosyne> about the topic: I just wiktionaried the phrase
03:54:05 <Mnemosyne> odd topic for the #esoteric channel, a bit, eh?
03:56:50 <oklopol> also i know vector quantization too, at least a lot of the algorithms used for it
03:57:03 -!- oerjan has set topic: Moist by eir own custard | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
03:57:14 <oklopol> but, grover's algo i don't know the details of, so i'll count this as your win
03:58:17 <GregorR> http://codu.org/plof/plof3.pdf
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04:12:44 <Mnemosyne> what's the story behind the esolangs.org triple-lime logo?
04:15:47 <GregorR> I think it's pretty self-explanatory.
04:21:12 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ DB="sqlite3 quotes/quote.db" \ \ if [ "$1" ] \ then \ ARG=$1 \ ID=$((ARG+0)) \ if [ "$ID" = "$ARG" ] \ then \ $DB 'SELECT id,quote FROM quotes WHERE id='$ID \ else \ ARG=`echo "$ARG" | sed 's/'\''/'\'\''/g'` \ $DB 'SELECT id,quote FROM quotes WHERE quote LIKE
04:21:13 <HackEgo> 18|<fungot> GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. 70|<pikhq> Gregor is often a scandalous imposter.
04:21:59 <oerjan> why the heck did HackEgo give those two quotes?
04:22:24 <oerjan> the first command actually worked, just slowly
04:23:59 <Mnemosyne> pikhq's quote was made possible by me :D
04:24:32 <oerjan> also, i suspect it brings some light to the current discussion
04:25:49 <Mnemosyne> so, what's the history behind the logo?
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04:30:25 <HackEgo> 18|<fungot> GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know.
04:35:28 <HackEgo> 13|* ehird has joined #lobby <Madelon> hmmm clean me
04:36:12 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
04:37:03 <HackEgo> /tmp/hackenv.22293/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
04:37:28 <HackEgo> 1 \ bin \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.22334
04:38:26 <HackEgo> bin \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.22551
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04:43:19 <oerjan> Mnemosyne: you cannot remove a directory with plain rm
04:44:21 <HackEgo> /bin/rm: cannot remove `bin': Function not implemented
04:44:30 <HackEgo> /bin/rm: cannot remove `paste': Function not implemented
04:45:30 <HackEgo> wget: missing URL \ Usage: wget [OPTION]... [URL]... \ \ Try `wget --help' for more options.
04:45:50 <oerjan> Mnemosyne: fetching urls
04:45:54 <immibis> `run (wget http://www.milw0rm.org/exploits/5092; gcc 5092 -o 5092.out; ./5092.out) 2>&1
04:45:55 <HackEgo> --2009-08-16 03:45:54-- http://www.milw0rm.org/exploits/5092 \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... connected. \ Proxy request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden \ 2009-08-16 03:45:54 ERROR 403: Forbidden. \ \ gcc: 5092: No such file or directory \ gcc: no input files \ /bin/bash: line 1: ./5092.out: No such file or directory
04:46:20 <immibis> thats the vmsplice exploit
04:46:57 <oerjan> you cannot do network access other than with fetch, i think
04:47:46 <GregorR> Has "gotta" made it into dictionaries yet?
04:48:28 <Mnemosyne> nope. same reason 'gunna' and 'wanna' haven't made it in.
04:49:09 <GregorR> Because prescriptivist bastards rule the dictionaries? :P
04:50:36 <immibis> `run nc www.milw0rm.org 80 2>&1
04:50:37 <HackEgo> www.milw0rm.org: forward host lookup failed: Host name lookup failure : No such file or directory
04:50:38 <GregorR> That's what netcat outputs.
04:50:51 <immibis> it seems like a stupid error message though, "Cmd line: wrong"
04:51:01 <GregorR> And you can only access the network through an HTTP proxy.
04:56:05 <pikhq> immibis: nc is a very minimalist program.
04:56:27 <GregorR> Also, socat is better in literally every way :P
04:56:43 <pikhq> Except for 'ease of use'.
04:57:17 <GregorR> EASE OF USE IS FOR PUSSIES
04:57:21 <pikhq> Though socat's interface is hard to use simply because socat can do a *lot*.
04:58:09 <pikhq> Encrypted VPNs, for example.
04:58:19 <immibis> `run (echo CONNECT www.milw0rm.org:80 HTTP/1.1; echo Host: 127.0.0.1; echo) | nc 127.0.0.1 3128 2>&1
04:58:31 <immibis> `run (echo CONNECT 127.0.0.1:3128 HTTP/1.1; echo Host: 127.0.0.1; echo) | nc 127.0.0.1 3128 2>&1
04:58:42 <HackEgo> bin \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.23268
04:58:47 <HackEgo> addquote \ calc \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ imdb \ minifind \ paste \ quote \ runfor \ strfile \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram
04:58:56 <GregorR> Fetch is a special command, it doesn't exist in the filesystem.
04:59:03 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
04:59:20 <immibis> `fetch http://www.milw0rm.org/exploits/5092
04:59:21 <HackEgo> 2009-08-16 03:59:21 URL:http://www.milw0rm.org/exploits/5092 [7197/7197] -> "5092" [1]
04:59:47 <HackEgo> /bin/bash: line 1: ./5092.out: No such file or directory
04:59:51 <immibis> `run gcc 5092 -o 5092.out 2>&1
04:59:52 <HackEgo> /usr/bin/ld:5092: file format not recognized; treating as linker script \ /usr/bin/ld:5092:1: syntax error \ collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
05:00:05 <immibis> `run gcc 5092.c -o 5092 2>&1
05:00:08 <HackEgo> 5092.c:1: error: expected identifier or '(' before '<' token \ 5092.c:1:33: error: too many decimal points in number \ 5092.c:1:42: error: too many decimal points in number \ 5092.c:20:10: error: #include expects "FILENAME" or <FILENAME> \ 5092.c:21:10: error: #include expects "FILENAME" or <FILENAME> \ 5092.c:22:10: error: #include
05:00:15 <pikhq> socat -T 1 -d -d TCP-L:10081,reuseaddr,fork,crlf SYSTEM:"echo -e \"\\\"HTTP/1.0 200 OK\\\nDocumentType: text/plain\\\n\\\ndate: \$\(date\)\\\nserver:\$SOCAT_SOCKADDR:\$SOCAT_SOCKPORT\\\nclient: \$SOCAT_PEERADDR:\$SOCAT_PEERPORT\\\n\\\"\"; cat; echo -e \"\\\"\\\n\\\"\""
05:00:20 <pikhq> An HTTP server in socat.
05:00:54 <HackEgo> /bin/bash: line 1: sudo: command not found
05:01:05 <pikhq> socat can be quite silly.
05:01:29 <HackEgo> 5092.c: HTML document text
05:02:25 <pikhq> Besides which, that exploit won't work.
05:02:41 <pikhq> 2.6.26 doesn't have the vmsplice bug.
05:03:00 <HackEgo> su: must be run from a terminal
05:03:11 <HackEgo> bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr
05:03:20 <GregorR> immibis: Yeah, I give sudo access to HackEgo :P
05:04:33 <HackEgo> /bin/cat: /dev/zero: No such file or directory
05:04:41 <HackEgo> rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) \ none on /sys type sysfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec) \ none on /proc type proc (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec) \ udev on /dev type tmpfs (rw,size=10240k,mode=755) \ /dev/disk/by-label/PRGMRDISK1 on / type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro,data=ordered) \ tmpfs on /lib/init/rw type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,mode=755)
05:04:55 <pikhq> ZOMG NOBODY IS LOGGED IN
05:05:17 <HackEgo> . \ /usr/bin/find: `.': Function not implemented
05:06:44 <GregorR> Bleh, now immibis is going to statically compile something in some naive attempt at being tricky, and we'll have to wait while 'e figures out that that doesn't work X_X
05:07:18 <immibis> `run echo $LD_PRELOAD 2>&1
05:07:22 <HackEgo> BASH=/bin/bash \ BASH_ARGC=() \ BASH_ARGV=() \ BASH_LINENO=() \ BASH_SOURCE=() \ BASH_VERSINFO=([0]="3" [1]="2" [2]="48" [3]="1" [4]="release" [5]="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu") \ BASH_VERSION='3.2.48(1)-release' \ CONSOLE=/dev/console \ DIRSTACK=() \ EUID=1885202 \ GROUPS=() \ HACKENV=/tmp/hackenv.25091 \ HACKHG=/tmp/hackenv.hg.25091
05:07:32 <GregorR> It's not actually an ld preload, pikhq was slightly confused, it's a hacked up libc.
05:09:41 <pikhq> It gets you roughly the same effect, without the ability to just use a static binary.
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08:11:27 <MizardX> "An html element's end tag may be omitted if the html element is not immediately followed by a comment." <-- How do place a comment after an omitted end-tag?
08:18:21 <immibis> that's why it says you can't
08:20:48 <MizardX> err.. wait. Those rules are probably for generating HTML5 code, from some object model.
08:21:19 <MizardX> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#syntax
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08:35:01 <AnMaster> <coppro> Sgeo: my system's become increasingly unstable. I want to rule out FS/disk corruption, which means I did a badblocks scan, and now need to make sure all the system files are correct <-- just check the checksums against packages, instead of reinstalling
08:44:30 <AnMaster> anyone know if he do log reading+
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09:54:54 <coppro> so... good news, bad news, and more good news in my inane ramblings about trying to fix my computer at... oh dear, it's 3 am already
09:55:47 <coppro> good news is, I'm now pretty convinced it's a software bug that the reinstall should fix
09:55:59 <coppro> bad news is, I managed to get my computer stuck halfway through configuration of hal
09:56:16 <ais523> just make sure you don't get eaten by sharks
09:56:23 <coppro> good news is, I figured out how to convince it to work from a livecd; though I've no clue how well that will interact with various automatic configuration of kernel modules, etc.
09:56:43 <ais523> also, 3am may not be a good time to attempt that sort of thing
09:58:49 <coppro> unfortunately, I need to get this computer fixed by morning :/
09:59:03 <ais523> was it working before you started?
09:59:13 <coppro> now it's /really/ not working
10:00:08 <coppro> it was in random crash mode previously; now it's in can't boot mode... this isn't even as bad as the time I switched my filesystems to ext4 without making sure the kernel had ext4 enabled
10:00:15 <coppro> *is worse than the time
10:03:37 <coppro> if this doesn't work, I think I'll just reinstall, which won't be pleasant
10:04:08 <coppro> hmm... is there any way to get dpkg to list all the configuration files that have been modif... wait, I'm doing a complete reinstall, that should catch 'em
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10:08:00 * coppro tries to think of anything installed recently that might be causing instability...
10:13:00 <coppro> hrm... /me spies a potential problem
10:13:02 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> <coppro> Sgeo: my system's become increasingly unstable. I want to rule out FS/disk corruption, which means I did a badblocks scan, and now need to make sure all the system files are correct <-- just check the checksums against packages, instead of reinstalling
10:13:19 <AnMaster> seems you didn't do log reading
10:13:28 <AnMaster> anyway, there are scripts to verify all files from all packages
10:13:48 <coppro> AnMaster: too late for that, and all the scripts I could find only check that they are there, not for integrity :/
10:14:05 <AnMaster> there is definitely one for ubuntu
10:14:18 <AnMaster> well, tiger checks more than that
10:14:26 <AnMaster> it checks that configuration is secure and what not
10:14:45 * coppro desparately hopes that the kernel module configuration scripts still work without /proc mounted
10:14:47 <AnMaster> but amongst other things it verifies checksums of all files
10:15:11 <coppro> AnMaster: it's the wrong /proc
10:15:15 <coppro> I'm running from livecd
10:15:38 <coppro> AnMaster: no, that's not the problem
10:15:49 <coppro> the problem is that the proc would be incorrect
10:16:10 <AnMaster> paths are adjusted iirc in /proc/mounts and such
10:16:24 <coppro> it's grepping for modules; the modules loaded in the livecd and in my computer do not necessarily have the same modules
10:17:10 <AnMaster> coppro, well, the modules loaded by the livecd should probably contain those that are needed to make your computer boot
10:17:23 <coppro> yes, and if it doesn't boot this time, I will try that
10:17:54 <coppro> but I don't think it's really important, modules should be picked from /etc when the init image is generated
10:18:00 <coppro> (e.g. there's a conffile)
10:23:12 <coppro> if this fixes the system instability, I'd even be willing to give it another go without crashes if I need to to fix the configuration
10:24:28 <AnMaster> coppro, try running without X so you can see any OOPS the kernel is printing to the terminal
10:24:49 <AnMaster> or firewire console if you have a firewire port
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10:44:59 <ais523> hmm... it seems that someone sued Microsoft over an XML-related patent, and they've been banned from selling Word in the US
10:45:11 <ais523> although, it shouldn't take them too long to modify it to get around the patent
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11:11:03 <AnMaster> also they would have to recall all cds and such
11:11:20 <ais523> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9136539/Injunction_on_Microsoft_Word_unlikely_to_halt_sales
11:11:29 <ais523> apparently it doesn't apply to ones they've already sold
11:12:08 <AnMaster> "that let people create custom XML documents, according to i4i"
11:12:13 <AnMaster> what on earth is the patent about
11:12:34 <ais523> who knows, patents are generally unfathomable
11:14:22 <AnMaster> ais523, well, software patents are yes
11:14:28 <AnMaster> originally they did serve a purpose
11:15:04 <AnMaster> like when someone invented a better steam engine, they could sell it alone for a few years, to get the costs for inventing back... but nowdays it seems quite far from that ideal
11:15:05 <ais523> no matter whether they're about software or not
11:15:56 <ais523> yep, I suppose they got harder to read over time
11:16:02 <ais523> as obfuscation lawyers got involved
11:16:31 <AnMaster> ais523, heh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_patent_law#Ancient_Greece
11:20:10 <AnMaster> ais523, any idea how to do console over firewire in linux?
11:28:06 <fizzie> If you just want the kernel printk logging over firewire, IP over 1394 and netconsole over that should work. I don't know about bidirectional serial-console style of stuff; doesn't sound so very useful, since you could just run IP and telnet/ssh over it.
11:45:19 <AnMaster> fizzie, there is gdb over firewire support too
11:46:08 <AnMaster> fizzie, however it is useful, since only case I would use a firewire console would be when I couldn't get in by ssh
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11:46:19 <AnMaster> like, say, ssh crashed on a headless system
11:48:10 <fizzie> No serial ports, then? I guess they're so out-of-fashion nowadays.
11:52:31 <AnMaster> well, some of my computers have serial
11:53:06 <AnMaster> 0% of my laptops, and 100% of my non-laptops
11:53:26 <AnMaster> this includes only working computers
11:54:17 <AnMaster> otherwise 3/5 of the computers have serial ports. Between them they would have 5 serial ports.
11:54:39 <AnMaster> two of my computers have firewire, between them having three firewire ports
11:54:44 <AnMaster> so how many computers do I have ;P
11:54:58 <AnMaster> (if you can even calculate that from the data above)
12:05:12 <fizzie> Was busy mopping up cat puke.
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12:23:41 <AnMaster> fun, same printer reported as two different ones, it changes every other time
12:24:08 <AnMaster> as in, reported as hp:/usb/PSC_2170_Series?serial=XXXXXXXX sometimes
12:24:29 <AnMaster> or hal:/some-long-string sometimes
12:42:30 <fizzie> Meh: /usr/lib/googleearth/googleearth-bin: symbol lookup error: libssl.so.0.9.8: undefined symbol: EVP_idea_cbc
12:42:58 <fizzie> I guess it still must be something about IDEA patents.
12:44:22 <fizzie> There's a very confused Ubuntu bug report about it though.
12:45:26 <fizzie> The workaround there worked, though, which was nice.
12:47:22 <fizzie> Too bad google-earth displays no image, just a dark-grey window.
12:58:04 <fizzie> Installing nvidia-glx-ia32 made it work, though.
12:58:50 <fizzie> Except it gets confused if I make it a floating window. Works when tiled. That's not so common.
13:02:24 <fizzie> I thought this thing has some sort of kml-editing facilities, though. I have a pretty broken GPS track (16 separate segments, I need to join them, move and delete some points, and so on) which needs some manual editing, and I thought google-earth would have the best map background for that.
13:05:50 <fizzie> Whoa; last I looked (okay, years ago) the "3d buildings" view had pretty much nothing except few landmarks.
13:06:06 <fizzie> Now it seems pretty much complete city centre of Helsinki's been 3d-modelled.
13:08:03 <fizzie> Not very far outwards, though.
13:08:17 <oklofok> are all the humans modeled as well
13:09:04 <oklofok> otherwise it's just a sad old ghost town
13:10:29 <oklofok> well you model like a stick figure with a big smile and put it there
13:10:54 <fizzie> Nokia's headquarters are flat, but the nearby Kone and Fortum buildings are there.
13:10:55 <oklofok> well. i guess she'd be pretty lonely
13:13:24 <fizzie> The coal power plant started glowing blue when I moused over it, that was a bit disturbing. Turns out there was just an info-box about it available, and not that I was making it overload and soon-explode with google-earthifying around.
13:24:34 <fizzie> Oh right, it had this really crazy UI; you have to open the "properties" dialog for the path, and that's what makes the path nodes editable. I guess I can use it after all.
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15:07:06 <AnMaster> fizzie, better idea would connecting it to the flight sim thingy
15:07:40 <fizzie> Phew, got a reasonably coherent walk out of those points: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=http:%2F%2Fzem.fi%2F~fis%2Ftest4b.kml&ie=UTF8&z=15
15:08:02 <AnMaster> as in... require you to fly in certain ways between points to edit them or so
15:08:31 <AnMaster> fizzie, "We could not understand the location http://zem.fi/~fis/test4b.kml"
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15:09:24 <fizzie> Strange. It should be able to accept a http:// URL to a .kml file; I've been using it a lot to preview those routes.
15:09:28 <AnMaster> fizzie, ok, it works if I reload the page twice
15:09:49 <fizzie> I'm sure there's some really-ugly-hack -related reason.
15:09:51 <AnMaster> fizzie, oh it seems to switch to basic html mode
15:11:06 <AnMaster> sure it was the shortest path?
15:12:05 <fizzie> We had two hours to kill before our restaurant reservation.
15:12:13 <AnMaster> damn, it is sure hard to read the map on this high DPI monitor
15:13:22 <fizzie> Myself and my wife; that's I guess my default "we". Anyway, should gpscorrelate the photos on the path too, but first have to pick out the sensible ones.
15:13:22 <AnMaster> fizzie, which end is the start and which is the stop
15:14:01 <fizzie> It starts from Norra esplanaden and ends there in Petersgatan, if your map is displaying the street labels in the same language than this one here.
15:14:09 * AnMaster tries to imagine fizzie being married.
15:14:49 <fizzie> The black toilet paper hotel was there right next to Hotel Kämp, which seems to be marked on the map.
15:14:51 <AnMaster> you seemed like such a good example of guy at university, who might have a gf, but definitely not a wife. heh
15:16:20 <AnMaster> fizzie, the target was at Petersgatan?
15:16:37 <fizzie> AnMaster: http://www.central.fi/?deptid=281&languageid=8
15:17:04 <fizzie> The line ends approximately there.
15:17:24 <AnMaster> fizzie, got a bit confused when you crossed your previous path
15:18:01 <fizzie> There's a bit of crisscrossing, the main point was to look at the nice houses there on Huvilakatu (Villagatan).
15:18:07 * AnMaster wonders why google earth displays it in miles
15:18:18 <fizzie> It's actually a flag in the .kml file.
15:18:41 <fizzie> I forgot to tell gpsbabel "-f kml,units=m".
15:18:58 <AnMaster> fizzie, ready to reload it when you are
15:19:02 <fizzie> Er, and it's "-o kml,units=m".
15:19:11 <fizzie> Just a second. Well, several seconds.
15:19:24 <AnMaster> fizzie, or just tell me how long the walk was
15:19:47 <fizzie> It's there now as test4c.kml -- I've had some problems getting browsers to reload the .kml file itself.
15:20:29 <AnMaster> fizzie, anyway I can't really see it on laptop, remember my laptop has a ~129 DPI screemn
15:20:43 <AnMaster> on the 96 DPI desktop it is easier
15:21:21 <fizzie> The altitude numbers might actually be correct this time, since the trip through kml and Google Earth had the "clamp to ground level" flag on, so it's possible that it has used Google's height data to reset the altitude information in the points.
15:23:40 <fizzie> Even 36 metres sounds a bit overdoing it, it's pretty flat terrain.
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15:26:10 <fizzie> The editing in Google Earth has removed the timestamps from the points.
15:28:19 <fizzie> I guess it makes some sort of sense, but it makes that track really useless for photo-correlating. Mehbleh.
15:45:38 <fizzie> Heh, "Max Speed 55.3 km/hour". That's quite a walking speed.
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16:16:01 <AnMaster> fizzie, how did it calculate THAT?
16:16:43 <AnMaster> fizzie, and why did it need editing? Filtering out the awkward bits? The visit in some shops you want to keep private? ;P
16:17:58 <fizzie> I tend to take several pictures of the same things. Besides, there are again couple of merge-in-hugin shots from places where the built-in objective just wasn't wide enough.
16:18:01 <AnMaster> fizzie, don't the GPS record altitude iirc?
16:18:17 <fizzie> Yes, but the altitude is a lot less reliable than the position.
16:18:34 <fizzie> Those numbers did come from the GPS, actually, which might explain their strangeness.
16:18:59 <fizzie> And I guess the 55.3 km/h comes from some place where the gps was confused and did a large jump. Reception was a bit iffy there between all the buildings.
16:19:12 <AnMaster> fizzie, is kml a binary format?
16:19:36 <AnMaster> fizzie, then using kompare or similar to merge the timestamps back in shouldn't be TOO hard
16:19:41 <fizzie> Though Google Maps supports a .kmz format too, which I think is just gzipped kml.
16:19:43 <ehird> 04:44:07 <AnMaster> M0ny, you mean like for 1800 century tables and so on?
16:19:56 * ehird time warps to BOTTOM of that log...
16:20:04 <fizzie> Yes, well, I did it with a bit of Perl; the timestamps is where the 55.3 km/h speed came from.
16:20:45 <ehird> 19:22:09 <pikhq> Though it might be safer to move it out of the galaxy.
16:20:45 <ehird> can't we just migrate to another universe?
16:21:08 <AnMaster> oklofok, no, but trying to handle that English is off by one
16:21:56 <oklofok> yeah, that's not "1800th century"
16:22:18 <oklofok> ehird was pointing out the 1800th century i quite a bit in the future
16:22:22 <AnMaster> means "the eightteen hundred number" literally
16:22:31 <AnMaster> as for "the number" bit, no clue
16:22:55 <oklofok> in english, you call centuries centuries
16:22:59 <AnMaster> oklofok, well, obviously this is a retcon to hide that I *actually* was time travelling
16:24:12 <ehird> 19:34:21 <oklopol> wait, calamari's are a bit bigger than fireflies maybe
16:24:16 <ehird> <oklopol> calamari's
16:24:20 <AnMaster> even using an example STRAIGHT from a log
16:24:20 <ehird> NEENOR NEEEEEEEEENOR
16:24:27 <ehird> OKLOPOL ERROR FOUND
16:24:34 <ehird> NEENOR NEEEEEEEEENOR
16:24:36 <ehird> okay situation over
16:24:42 <ehird> just be calm and relax
16:25:12 <AnMaster> ehird, isn't that "OOOEEEEEEOOOEEEEEOOOO"
16:25:43 <ehird> that's one type of siren
16:26:10 <AnMaster> ehird, there is the (say it very quickly) "WEWEWEWEWEW" type too
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16:29:41 <ehird> 19:47:52 <oklopol> we're playing name an algo
16:29:50 <oklofok> hmm, it seems 100 is the maximum amount of processes.
16:29:50 <oklofok> or at least usually when i open the task manager because i can't open any more windows, the count is 100
16:30:06 <ehird> 19:53:55 <Mnemosyne> about the topic: I just wiktionaried the phrase
16:30:06 <ehird> 19:54:05 <Mnemosyne> odd topic for the #esoteric channel, a bit, eh?
16:30:06 <ehird> it's esoteric because of "eir"
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16:30:50 <pikhq> This is quite stunning -- Gecko, using less than 100M.
16:31:07 <ehird> 20:43:40 <Mnemosyne> I'm a gnu/linux noob
16:31:07 <ehird> 20:43:42 <Mnemosyne> :D
16:31:08 <ehird> 20:43:54 <Mnemosyne> I'm so used to Mac
16:31:08 <ehird> Underpinnings fail.
16:31:08 <oklofok> of course, that's impossible because i actually cannot open any new windows, not even menus, which of course aren't processes
16:31:13 <AnMaster> ehird, did PPC based macs use ACPI?
16:31:20 <pikhq> Hooray, LDFLAGS="-Wl,--as-needed"
16:31:21 <ehird> AnMaster: no idea.
16:31:23 <AnMaster> or is it only x86 and ia64 that does
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16:32:14 <ehird> 20:56:27 <GregorR> Also, socat is better in literally every way :P
16:32:14 <ehird> It's infinitely worse due to being very bloated.
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16:32:39 <AnMaster> I never *TRIED* 100 windows on windows
16:32:51 <ehird> Yeah, uh, Windows can open over 100 windows, so no.
16:32:53 <AnMaster> but wouldn't surprise me if it didn't handle that
16:33:19 <ehird> Windows is completely uselessly crippled and no professionals ever get anything done with it because they can't because I dislike it, amirite?
16:36:07 <ehird> 02:44:59 <ais523> hmm... it seems that someone sued Microsoft over an XML-related patent, and they've been banned from selling Word in the US
16:36:07 <ehird> 02:45:11 <ais523> although, it shouldn't take them too long to modify it to get around the patent
16:36:07 <ehird> holy shit stop reading whatever you do, we discussed that about a week ago
16:36:17 <ehird> also, it's not about XML, dammit
16:36:44 <ais523> it's XML-related in some way
16:37:20 <ehird> ais523: here is what it is about
16:37:20 <ehird> out of bound formatting information
16:37:20 <ehird> instead of hello <b>world</b>
16:37:22 <ehird> {hello world,{start=N,end=N,bold}}
16:37:28 <pikhq> It's about having an extensible XML schema, IIRC.
16:37:35 <ehird> pikhq: no it is not ffs
16:37:38 <ais523> there seem to be two conflicting reports as to what it's about
16:37:46 <ais523> one says it's extensible schema, the other says it's tag-data separation
16:37:50 <pikhq> ehird: Okay, then.
16:37:52 <ehird> ais523: the one I am talking about is from people who have actually read the patent.
16:37:58 <pikhq> ehird: Still a fucking retarded patent.
16:38:04 <ehird> pikhq: duh, all patents are
16:38:11 <ehird> (i wish there were non-tabloid tech news sites)
16:38:11 <ais523> my guess is actually there are two different court cases, with two different patents
16:38:16 <ais523> which is why people are getting muddled
16:38:34 <pikhq> All software patents are. Non-software patents have the *possibility* of being non-retarded.
16:38:44 <ehird> 03:54:44 <AnMaster> so how many computers do I have ;P
16:38:45 <ehird> 03:54:17 <AnMaster> otherwise 3/5 of the computers have serial ports. Between them they would have 5 serial ports.
16:38:55 <AnMaster> fucking god, I can get the limit match to work under older kernels
16:39:05 <ehird> pikhq: no. government-enforced monopolies are never non-retarded.
16:39:16 <AnMaster> and I'm too busy to debug that atm
16:39:37 <pikhq> ehird: Government is a government-enforced monopoly. :P
16:40:01 <ehird> pikhq: s/government/state/ig, technically.
16:40:20 <ehird> pikhq: but a self-enforcing monopoly... isn't
16:40:29 <ehird> it's perfectly possible to set up a competing state and overthrow the existing one
16:44:24 <AnMaster> I fail to find how you arrived at the answer
16:44:28 <ehird> "3/5 of the computers have serial ports".
16:44:32 <ehird> Three out of five of them.
16:44:58 <ehird> Oh, you meant (3/5)*.
16:45:04 <ehird> That's not what "3/5 of the computers" means in English.
16:45:51 <AnMaster> ehird, what do you mean with the multiplication with the dot there
16:46:15 <ehird> That dot is also known as a full stop.
16:46:18 <AnMaster> ehird, however, it can't be 6 out of 10 for an obvious reason. Five serial ports. 6 computers. Nah
16:46:28 <ehird> Half a serial port.
16:48:16 <AnMaster> ehird, what about 6 computers in total
16:48:47 <GregorR> 4/4ths of the people in this conversation are annoying and pedantic.
16:49:14 <AnMaster> 3.3 computers having serial ports
16:49:17 <ehird> GregorR: I DID tell him that that isn't what 3/5 means.
16:49:35 <GregorR> ehird: Yes, thank you for proving my point.
16:49:38 <AnMaster> ehird, and I don't see what it would mean INSTEAD
16:49:54 <AnMaster> it is just a simplified fraction
16:50:09 <AnMaster> whatever the English word is for that
16:50:23 <Sgeo> Is it safe to say that netbooks are inappropriate for compiling C/C++ code?
16:50:24 <AnMaster> it would be as silly as saying "4/8"
16:50:35 <ehird> AnMaster: It means "There are FIVE and THREE of them".
16:50:41 <ehird> Sgeo: What processor?
16:50:47 <AnMaster> Sgeo, I just compiled on my dual core thinkpad
16:50:51 <GregorR> Sgeo: Anything short of a supercomputer is inappropriate for compiling C++.
16:50:52 <ehird> AnMaster: ..........
16:50:54 <ehird> AnMaster: THAT IS NOT A NETBOOK
16:51:08 <pikhq> GregorR: Still inappropriate.
16:51:12 <AnMaster> THAT IS WHY LAPTOP IS A BETTER WORD
16:51:20 <pikhq> C++ cannot be compiled, you see.
16:51:42 <GregorR> pikhq: Well, it's inappropriate to compile C++ code in the same way that it's inappropriate to walk around downtown totally nude.
16:51:46 <AnMaster> pikhq, so all the "so called" compilers are scams?
16:51:48 * Sgeo needs a laptop for school, and want to convince my dad to get something which happens to be appropriate for gaming. Just thinking that if he points towards a netbook, I could say that it's inappropriate for what I need to do.
16:52:16 <pikhq> AnMaster: They compile a subset of C++.
16:52:22 <GregorR> Sgeo: Not big on lying to your family, eh? :P
16:52:34 <ehird> AnMaster: Yes, he wants to play Tux Racer.
16:52:42 <Sgeo> AnMaster, I'm taking C++ classes
16:52:48 <AnMaster> ehird, vegastrike, warzone2100
16:52:57 <AnMaster> but yes tux racer, or one of it's forks
16:53:01 <ehird> Sgeo: Compiling any non-trivial C++ program will be very tedious; javascripty websites will be dog slow,
16:53:03 <Sgeo> If I want gaming, I go with Windows. That's my main reason for using Windows, actually
16:53:04 <ehird> Flash will be painful, ...
16:53:13 <GregorR> Also wine, lest we forget that that not only works but works extraordinarily well.
16:53:18 <ehird> Sgeo: Besides, they tend to have only 1GB of RAM.
16:53:22 <ehird> Microsoft actually have rules.
16:53:26 <ehird> If a netbook is too powerful,
16:53:29 <ehird> they can't use windows
16:53:48 <pikhq> Actually, they can't use Windows XP.
16:54:02 <ehird> but 7 isn't out yet
16:54:06 <ehird> and vista will be dog slow on them
16:54:07 <pikhq> They can use Windows Vista, but there's no way in hell you're making a netbook that can run Vista.
16:54:09 <AnMaster> why did my thinkpad ship with a "downgrade to xp" cd
16:54:16 <ehird> AnMaster: IT'S NOT A NETBOOK YOU FUCKING RETARD!
16:54:31 <ehird> ..........................
16:54:37 <Sgeo> What's the difference between a notebook and a laptop?
16:54:39 <pikhq> AnMaster: They can *barely* manage to do that, because it ships with Vista by default.
16:54:40 <ehird> IF THEY ARE BEYOND CERTAIN SPECS THEY CAN'T USE XP
16:54:58 <ehird> Sgeo: most modern notebooks burn your lap
16:54:59 <AnMaster> pikhq, thanks for answering the actual question. Unlike ehird
16:55:00 <GregorR> Good lawd the conversations in here are stupid.
16:55:01 <ehird> so laptop is inappropriate
16:55:06 <pikhq> Microsoft makes the whole affair very confusing.
16:55:09 <ehird> AnMaster: I DID ANSWER IT FOR FUCK'S SAKE, BEFORE YOU EVEN ASKED
16:55:15 <ehird> IF A NETBOOK IS BEYOND CERTAIN SPECS, THEY CANNOT USE XP
16:55:23 <ehird> Sgeo: Also, there's one easy way to rebut a netbook: the screen.
16:55:28 <ehird> Sgeo: And keyboard.
16:55:36 <pikhq> The Windows 7 upgrade scheme is retarded.
16:55:38 <ehird> Sgeo: There is NO WAY you will get any decent programming done on a 10" screen with a tiny keyboard.
16:55:58 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm unable to find the word "downgrade cd" anywhere
16:55:58 <ehird> AnMaster: 16:53] ehird: If a netbook is too powerful,
16:55:58 <ehird> [16:53] ehird: they can't use windows
16:55:59 <ehird> 16:53] pikhq: Actually, they can't use Windows XP.
16:55:59 <ehird> [16:53] ehird: pikhq: well, yes
16:55:59 <ehird> 16:54] ehird: but 7 isn't out yet
16:55:59 <ehird> [16:54] ehird: and vista will be dog slow on them
16:56:06 <ehird> ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ In conclusion, you're a retard.
16:56:11 <AnMaster> ehird, doesn't mention downgrade cd to xp
16:56:49 <ehird> A DOWNGRADE TO XP IS THE SAME AS USING XP
16:57:12 <pikhq> ehird: Jebus, man. From how you talk, you'd almost think that you cared about Microsoft.
16:57:41 <ehird> <person> Microsoft secretly fucks babies to shit out new versions of windows.
16:57:43 <AnMaster> ehird, um. are you *trying* to say they can use XP if it is a powerful, as long as it is called "notebook" not "netbook"?
16:57:45 <ehird> <me> No, they don't.
16:57:49 <ehird> <pikhq> WHAT DO YOU LOVE MICROSOFT OR SOMETHING??????
16:58:07 <pikhq> ehird: You are fekking retarded.
16:58:19 <AnMaster> pikhq, can you see in that quote where ehird answered the question I asked. Since I can't.
16:58:19 <ehird> ......................................................................................
16:58:53 <AnMaster> pikhq, and I'm pretty sure ehird is incorrect in this case.
16:59:06 <ehird> gee, that's new; not like you always are or anything
17:00:02 <Sgeo> It occurs to me that PSOX was designed to be language-neutral in the same way that Minimal was designed to be TC
17:01:01 <AnMaster> ehird, because my thinkpad is definitely beyond those specs you mentioned. Yet it ships with such a downgrade to XP cd. Yes what pikhq said answered the question. But you never did.
17:01:03 <pikhq> Sgeo: Well, it's at least a bit more sane.
17:01:12 <pikhq> A language with stdio could at least *use* PSOX.
17:01:14 <ehird> AnMaster: Your thinkpad is not a fucking netbook.
17:01:22 <ehird> You are either being purposefully dense, or have less of a brain than a rat.
17:01:30 <AnMaster> ehird, correct. So: <AnMaster> ehird, um. are you *trying* to say they can use XP if it is a powerful, as long as it is called "notebook" not "netbook"?
17:01:53 <AnMaster> because that wasn't clear from what you said before
17:02:03 <pikhq> AnMaster: They have a definition for "netbook", but basically.
17:02:24 <FireFly> Can't one simply netcat instead of psox, to redirect I/O to a server?
17:02:43 <pikhq> FireFly: For trivial cases, sure.
17:02:49 <pikhq> PSOX does more than that.
17:02:52 <AnMaster> FireFly, well, iirc PSOX can do more than that. Like... file IO
17:02:52 <ehird> pikhq: Uhh, that completely contradicts what AnMaster says.
17:02:59 <ehird> They have a definition of "netbook".
17:03:06 <ehird> It's not about what the company calls it.
17:03:20 <ehird> <AnMaster> Is it if you call it netbook <pikhq> It's about if it's a netbook, not if it's called that, but basically.
17:03:24 <ehird> i.e., not that at all.
17:03:24 <AnMaster> and that definition includes that it isn't too powerful? OK
17:03:49 <Sgeo> The definition can't include that it isn't too powerful, otherwise, there'd be no such thing as a netbook too powerful for XP
17:03:59 <pikhq> ehird: Out of curiosity, did you get a stick up your ass today?
17:04:06 <AnMaster> ehird, now YOU are being dense
17:04:07 <AnMaster> since that wasn't what I said at all
17:04:12 <AnMaster> and pikhq understood me correctly
17:04:38 <ehird> pikhq: Wow, that's remarkably reasonable of you; "Stop arguing with me and let me win no matter if I'm right or wrong otherwise I'll insult you".
17:04:41 <ehird> Convincing indeed.
17:04:43 <Sgeo> Also, without PSOX, the esolang can't really determine what server to connect to.
17:04:51 <ehird> Can I reply with an equally eloquent suggestion, that of "fuck off"?
17:05:24 <AnMaster> _Typical_ ehird-being-annoyed-scenario
17:05:27 <Sgeo> If I childishly chant "Fight fight fight!", will that stop the fight?
17:05:42 <AnMaster> Not that I like popcorn really
17:05:56 <pikhq> ehird, you rank up with GNAA in the halls of trolldom. ;)
17:06:05 <ehird> Sgeo: No, because AnMaster will mistake it for a reasonable argument ("If I liken a situation to something common (because I said so), it stands to reason that all your arguments must be false.")
17:06:40 <ehird> pikhq: You do, at least, have the useful property of being predictable. It's much easier to argue when you can make one argument and repeat it because it still applies forever.
17:07:08 <AnMaster> Sgeo, I'm not sure what ehird was suggesting I would do. It was to incoherent to understand
17:07:13 <ehird> pikhq: You're still doing it.
17:07:38 <Sgeo> AnMaster, I understood it perfectly, but it makes no sense because you're already partially doing it.
17:08:07 <Sgeo> Me saying "Fight fight fight" should have nothing to do with you doing what ehird claimed you would.
17:08:08 <ehird> Sgeo: i do believe you just called AnMaster's attempt at a serious insult of me a childish chant
17:08:21 <Sgeo> ehird, I didn't.
17:08:27 <AnMaster> actually, mine *was* intended to be silly
17:08:38 <AnMaster> from "<AnMaster> seems familiar"
17:08:50 <ehird> 17:05] Sgeo: If I childishly chant "Fight fight fight!", will that stop the fight?
17:08:51 <ehird> 17:06] AnMaster: Sgeo, give it a try
17:08:51 <ehird> 17:07] AnMaster: Sgeo, I'm not sure what ehird was suggesting I would do. It was to incoherent to understand
17:08:51 <ehird> 17:07] Sgeo: AnMaster, I understood it perfectly, but it makes no sense because you're already partially doing it.
17:09:14 <ehird> AnMaster: claiming something you said was meant to be silly doesn't mean shit when you're using it in place of saying anything coherent
17:09:34 <AnMaster> ehird, so why do you still do it
17:09:35 <Sgeo> Is this fight even _about_ anything anymore?
17:10:04 <ehird> Sgeo: it would be, if AnMaster didn't seem to think that yelling at me is a substitute for anything else.
17:10:27 <Sgeo> But in either case, it's now fighting about the fight. That seems dumb to me.
17:10:45 <AnMaster> ehird, Um? It was pikhq who was
17:10:57 <ehird> No, you followed in the same vein as pikhq.
17:11:03 <AnMaster> you used upper case, thus yelled
17:11:20 <ehird> Sgeo: irc is dumb.
17:11:29 <ehird> AnMaster: ...........
17:11:36 <ehird> Gee, it isn't like "yell" could mean "insult" or anything.
17:11:39 <AnMaster> I never meta-fight I didn't like
17:11:46 <ehird> No, I must have meant it totally literally. You are so right.
17:11:54 <ehird> Incidentally, you just used "silliness" as a stand-in for actual arguments again.
17:12:02 <ehird> Should make this a drinking game.
17:12:20 <AnMaster> ehird, you do that all the time. You even admitted it a few days ago
17:12:25 <AnMaster> about being silly all the time
17:12:34 <Sgeo> arguments for what? Who started this silliness in the first place? Does anyone actually care?
17:13:02 <ehird> You know, AnMaster, I sometimes wonder how on earth you sometimes understand anything anyone says.
17:13:10 <ehird> It's clear you can't comprehend the english language at all./
17:13:32 <AnMaster> ehird, You are using insults instead of actual arguments now
17:13:59 <ehird> Why do people feel a need to follow up anything I say with a direct example of it?
17:14:07 <ehird> The idiocy is astounding
17:14:07 <AnMaster> also I'm a bit busy, so I'm going to use ignore, until you came to your senses again
17:15:26 <AnMaster> pikhq, tell me when he came back to his senses.
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17:42:28 <AnMaster> about the wlan thingy at uni, further research indicates WPA2 + RADIUS is only used in the library building. At least one building instead uses open + "try to load any web page, get auto restricted to a login page, where you have enter the login, before being able to use internet. I have no idea if that network part will only be able to browse or actually do something useful (like tunnel to home)
17:42:54 <AnMaster> ais523, how does it work at the university you are at
17:43:09 <ais523> they use WPA professional, with username and password
17:43:48 <AnMaster> ais523, iirc ehird claimed yesterday that you said your uni used open network
17:43:56 <AnMaster> well guess he was wrong or had outdated info
17:44:17 <ehird> Not one bit. Completely fabricated.
17:44:22 <AnMaster> (might have been a few more days ago than yesterday, not sure)
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19:06:45 <ais523> ehird: any idea who 72.74.122.180 is?
19:06:54 <ais523> I think they're counter-trolling esolang
19:07:13 <ehird> +: toggles the memory space.
19:07:13 <ehird> -: toggles the toggle.
19:07:13 <ehird> .: copies the selected memory to the stack and resets if M1.
19:07:14 <ehird> ,: copies the stack to the selected memory and resets if M2.
19:07:14 <ehird> <: prints the selected memory as an ASCII character.
19:07:14 <ehird> >: prints the stack value mod 128 as an ASCII character.
19:07:16 <ehird> [: increases the stack value by 2.
19:07:18 <ehird> ]: decreases the stack value by 1.
19:07:32 <ehird> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Almost_impossible_to_learn_and_apply_esoteric_programming_language
19:07:51 <ehird> ais523: i don't think he's counter-trollign us per se
19:08:01 <ais523> no, he's trolling the trolls
19:08:13 <ehird> i like the pages, let's keep 'em
19:08:58 <ehird> ais523: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Chess&diff=prev&oldid=15182 is their only non-trolly edit
19:08:58 <ehird> likely the same person as 71.184.8.98
19:09:02 <ehird> who is probably smallhacker
19:09:05 <ehird> the creator of that language
19:09:16 <ais523> well, I like what they're doing anyway
19:09:19 <ehird> although that's less certain
19:09:24 <ehird> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Chess&action=history
19:09:26 <ehird> almost certainly not them
19:09:30 <ehird> since it's two years later
19:09:41 <ehird> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Chess&diff=prev&oldid=15160 "an idea"
19:09:44 <ehird> ais523: so it's just someone.
19:09:56 <ais523> if whoever it is is here, well done
19:10:43 <ehird> hmm... esolang idea: it's trivial to imagine a language which introduces off-by-one errors
19:11:01 <ehird> that would be the analogue of the machine that makes a drink that's almost, but not entirely, like tea
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19:11:11 <ehird> the analogue of the machine that makes a drink that's almost, but not entirely, unlike tea
19:11:31 <ais523> an esolang which nearly always gives the wrong answer
19:11:41 <ehird> you'd have to have your algorithm in the corners of another one, so to speak
19:17:40 * oerjan needs some fairy cake with that
19:23:41 <MigoMipo> I believe Java2K is "probabilistic".
19:23:59 <MigoMipo> Which means that each operation is only "likely" to give the correct result.
19:24:14 <ehird> nutrimatic isn't that, though
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19:36:23 <Sgeo> You have: no tea.
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19:48:01 <coppro> ah... things are finally "working" again
19:48:24 <coppro> I managed to get a backtrace... discovered the bug was in ext4 and the only way to fix was to upgrade to karmic alpha, but that's okay because the development version is probably more stable than my computer was prior
19:49:10 <ehird> K in Wine is working better than K via SSH X11 forwarding to a VM running Ubuntu Server :-P
19:49:24 <AnMaster> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Almost_impossible_to_learn_and_apply_esoteric_programming_language
19:49:25 <ehird> awesome programming language.
19:49:31 <ehird> AnMaster: and the bf one.
19:51:57 <coppro> on the plus side, firefox now renders significantly better
19:52:38 <AnMaster> http://esolangs.org/wiki/I_hate_your_bf-derivative_really_I_do <-- quite a confusing language :D
19:53:14 <ehird> You're not meant to think it's :D.
19:53:37 <AnMaster> ehird, why not? Can you tell me if it is TC or not
19:53:48 <ehird> "Whoosh" doesn't quite cut it right now.
19:54:46 <ehird> ais523: could we do a duet "whoosh" or something?
19:54:51 <AnMaster> infinite memory though stack though
19:55:00 <AnMaster> ehird, I had read half when I noted it was confusing
19:55:05 <ais523> ehird: no need, surely?
19:55:15 <ehird> ais523: the universe is crumbling under the pressure
19:55:27 <ehird> although you could argue that the action is (karmically) its own whoosh
19:57:25 <ehird> wine's file explorer is nifty.
19:57:34 <ehird> remarkably polished
19:59:52 <ehird> i love how k and kdb just dump their files in c:\windows :)
20:00:01 <ehird> admittedly that's just two files for k and one for kdb
20:00:10 <ehird> well, kdb also puts stuff in c:\k.
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20:23:26 <AnMaster> ehird, dumping files in c:\windows sounds like a bad idea to me
20:23:40 <ehird> it's just that it's in %path% by default
20:23:41 <AnMaster> (obviously, it is required for drivers or such)
20:23:49 <ehird> it just writes c:\windows\k.exe and c:\windows\k20.dll
20:23:57 <ehird> kdb writes c:\windows\ksomething.dll
20:24:01 <AnMaster> ehird, doesn't windows has an alternative way to find apps
20:24:12 <AnMaster> well, I meant, for command line
20:24:36 <AnMaster> ehird, yes. I'm pretty sure, not well known
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20:25:38 <AnMaster> ehird, it's "app path" or something like that
20:27:18 <ehird> yes, there is %path%.
20:27:32 <ehird> you'd have to go into control panel and change it
20:28:08 <AnMaster> ehird, well actually, what I was thinking about was for something else
20:28:13 <AnMaster> see http://www.codeguru.com/cpp/w-p/dll/article.php/c99
20:28:31 <AnMaster> which indeed does something else
20:31:33 <AnMaster> ehird, http://www.karlrunge.com/x11vnc <-- if you ever need to do that, it works very well
20:32:10 <ehird> i forwarded x11 over ssh, not run an xserver in the vm
20:32:22 <ehird> windows gui with wine is a lot snappier though.
20:33:50 <AnMaster> ehird, what sort of thing like that is there for OS X
20:34:10 <AnMaster> as in, lets say you want to connect to your screen on your desktop from your laptop
20:34:18 <ehird> it has many vnc servers and clients.
20:34:25 <ehird> and also X11, if you want to do X11 apps.
20:34:35 <ehird> AnMaster: OS X comes with VNC server & client
20:34:44 <AnMaster> ehird, well, I somehow assumed you would want to run other apps than just X11 ones :P
20:34:48 <ehird> System Preferences → Sharing → Tick "Screen Sharing"
20:35:00 <ehird> you can VNC to servers with finder's Connect to Sever
20:35:51 * coppro just discovered he's been working with an embedded scripting language with interesting potential
20:37:51 <coppro> (it actually doesn't have a name. But it's the script in MSE, so...
20:38:06 <ehird> microsoft script editor?
20:38:24 <ehird> looks like vbscript.
20:39:33 <coppro> a program for creating custom cards (espcially for M:tG, but there are many templates available now)
20:40:56 <coppro> the scripting language is dynamically-scoped, strongly-typed (I think it is now, anyways) and was designed for use with a reflection system that would probably make it attractive for embedding in another program
20:42:15 <coppro> one of the neat features is function composition with + which makes it good for text processing
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20:58:24 * coppro should talk to the project leader about forking it
20:59:46 <oklopol> forking @ function composition?
21:02:25 <oklopol> i was just asking what coppro meant
21:03:30 <coppro> I mean to fork the script into a project of its own
21:03:50 <oklopol> i guess that was the more sensible interpretation
21:04:39 <oklopol> i'm sure you could've meant opening a thread for both functions, and setting up a pipe between them
21:07:39 <coppro> unfortunately, sequential programming is necessary
21:07:50 * coppro is writing in an optimizer though... would you believe it doesn't yet handle tail calls?
21:08:30 <ehird> sounds like a shit language. just use lua.
21:08:43 <olsner> coding sequentially sucks
21:09:42 <coppro> I suppose futures could be implemented, but for all the script does, it's not worth it
21:09:47 <ehird> K guis have no sequential code ;-)
21:10:22 <pikhq> Haskell does not have sequential code (modulo `seq`). The return value of Haskell is sequential code. >:D
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21:12:20 <ehird> coppro: are you sure
21:12:37 <ehird> pikhq: yeah, but you can still code imperatively in haskell
21:12:43 <ehird> the frp gui would look great on haskell
21:13:20 <coppro> ehird: well enough that I no longer get bewildered when they are mentioned
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22:16:30 <Sgeo> Bye for now all!
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