00:01:11 <Ilari> No, its something that's just plain unimaginable for those that didn't live through it... :->
00:01:46 <fizzie> Right, just like the Wii.
00:04:04 <ehird_> Ilari: you can't say that if you didn't, did you :P
00:04:12 <ehird_> (although i wouldn't be surprised if you did)
00:06:22 <Ilari> There are things in world that one knows that are just plain unimaginable... They are so far from everyday experience that all mental approximations about them fail...
00:07:15 <ehird_> I don't really think that applies to WWII, although of course there are assumptions in that statement.
00:07:38 <ehird_> Being in any war is scary; you don't care if 10 other countries will be obliterated too if the threat is that yours might be.
00:13:22 <Ilari> Also, civilization failure level events are really scary (the end of the world as we know it)...
00:14:21 <ehird_> stop trying to shatter my illusion that society will be just fine in the ~70 years i have left.
00:14:41 <ehird_> well, maybe even 70 years, being young.
00:14:59 <Sgeo> Oooh, Haskell lets me manipulate floating point stuff easily
00:15:03 <Sgeo> I've been looking for that
00:15:07 <ehird_> no more than any language
00:15:47 <Sgeo> http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/base/Prelude.html#t%3ARealFloat
00:15:52 <Ilari> If civilization fails in wide enough area at once, the death toll is going to be HORRIBLE. Spanish flu caused a couple in remote areas. IIRC, 90% of population died in those cases.
00:16:01 <ehird_> Sgeo: yah, every language has that dude.
00:16:19 <ehird_> Ilari: become a hermit y/n
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00:16:49 <Sgeo> There's a function equivalent to decodeFloat in Python?
00:17:17 <Ilari> That's a task for hardcore survivalists... I'm not one of those... :-)
00:17:22 <Sgeo> Ok, this is not what I was expecting
00:18:07 <ehird_> i like civilisation mostly.
00:20:08 <ehird_> AnMaster: i was wrong, there is a t30
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00:21:13 <Ilari> The tendency seems to be that as technology processes, the safety margins in civilization shrink. And as consequence, civilization becomes more and more vulernable to unexpected external events.
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00:22:54 <ehird_> western civilisation seems to be happily bumbling along for quite a while now
00:26:37 <Ilari> Global-level or even regional-level massive disturbances are rare. I was refering to magitude of those required for massive trouble decreasing...
00:27:20 <ehird_> just saying that we've been lucky so far.
00:27:46 <Ilari> You really think modern civilization wouldn't be in serious trouble with 1918-level pandemic? If that's not enough, what about black-deth level (and both have happened and mostly didn't take down civilization)?
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00:29:15 <ehird_> Ilari: Of course it'd be in trouble.
00:29:25 <ehird_> I'm just saying that we've had a continuous western society for a long time.
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00:33:26 <Ilari> The reason those disasters are rare is because there aren't that many possible (known) causes for those. Severe pandemic, Supervolcano, Very powerful magnetic storm...
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00:37:22 <Ilari> Last exceedingly powerful magnetic storm was year 1859. Auroras all the way to Hawaii. Telegraph systems getting fried by the energy coupling into wires. Wires spontaneously short-circuiting by excess voltage...
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02:16:48 <ehird_> Does anyone even use Gib?
02:17:53 <ehird_> As opposed to Gb (gigabits), where 1 Gb = 119.2 MiB.
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02:35:32 <ehird> http://www.somasuite.org/screenshot/somax11_2.png worst interface ever
02:40:42 <Sgeo> What's a calendar doing in there?
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02:43:34 <Ilari> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000734.html
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02:52:55 <Gregor> ehird: What the flying fuck?
02:53:30 <oerjan> what the flying fuck: the worst cartoon character ever
02:53:33 <ehird> Gregor: i know right
02:53:39 <ehird> it's something to do with music
02:54:14 <ehird> subtle hilarious detail: there's a *whole menu* for NextSong
02:54:24 <ehird> this thing can queue up songs so flexibly it needed a menu
02:55:35 <Gregor> That screenshot is on the site for that program?!
02:55:49 <Gregor> Like, this is what they think is a GOOD screenshot for the program?
02:56:28 <ehird> Gregor: that's the "SomaX" program though. their mere SomaPlayer is much simpler: http://www.somasuite.org/screenshot/soma_session.jpg
02:56:57 <ehird> also, their two architecture designs:
02:56:58 <ehird> http://www.somasuite.org/screenshot/somagrafico.png
02:57:02 <ehird> http://www.somasuite.org/screenshot/somagrafico2.png
02:57:08 <ehird> can you say astronomic complexity?!
02:57:35 <ehird> i think the stick figure in the latter is more appropriate than they could possibly know
02:57:51 <Gregor> Their architecture design involves storming a castle.
02:58:01 <ehird> a castle of complexity!
02:58:14 <ehird> they forgot the dragon, also known as their UI.
02:58:26 <ehird> it should be in front of the moat of lava, representing a moat of lava.
02:59:32 <ehird> *Seems to be perfect.*
02:59:33 <ehird> --http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/procmail/procmail-11/procmail/src/procmail.c
02:59:38 <ehird> (just click it and scroll, I dare you)
03:02:24 <Gregor> I love that "Palinsesti" is the only untranslated word.
03:02:38 <ehird> i have a horrible feeling it's not meant to be translated
03:02:55 <Gregor> It's a word entirely unique to SomaX.
03:03:03 <ehird> maybe they couldn't think of any other way to spice up the word "Listings"
03:03:08 <ehird> so they just translated it to italian.
03:03:26 <ehird> your brand has to PENETRATE your users
03:03:31 <ehird> even if it's just a single feature.
03:03:53 <ehird> I love the "Stop for:"
03:04:00 <ehird> You know, just in case you want a few seconds or a few hours of silence.
03:04:17 <ehird> Or want to watch that YouTube video and then listen to music STRAIGHT AFTER.
03:05:12 <Gregor> I CANNOT TOLERATE A MILLISECOND OF SILENCE
03:05:28 <ehird> it ought to include an option to click the mouse button at a certain time
03:05:41 <ehird> so you can just position your cursor over the youtube play button after setting up a silence
03:07:12 <ehird> how else will you laugh at the hilarity of that porn video immediately seguing into rick astley
03:08:45 <ehird> THIS IS A CRUCIAL FEATURE
03:08:54 <ehird> in fact it should embed the video in the pane so you can see it happen
03:09:03 <ehird> it needs a youtube downloader & viewer built in for this
03:09:07 <ehird> wait, wait, we're inventing emacs here
03:09:27 <ehird> M-x play-youtube-video-then-play-audio-file
03:09:59 <ehird> it's the 5th most common emacs operation, after M-x find-integer-returning-functions-with-a-string-argument-and-replace-their-third-word-with-if
03:11:02 <oerjan> i have this vague feeling you may not be entirely serious there
03:11:43 <ehird> anyway, I might be moving. what's up with that.
03:11:52 <ehird> the answer is: elephants.
03:11:56 <ehird> elephants are up with that.
03:12:01 <oerjan> good. you probably need exercise.
03:12:18 <ehird> "I haven't slept for ten days, because that would be too long."
03:12:59 <oerjan> now if we are talking about moving elephants, then that might be a bit too much exercise.
03:14:13 <oerjan> otoh if you are moving because of an elephant infestation, then why haven't i seen it in the news?
03:14:25 <ehird> because norway is in a bubble
03:14:29 <oerjan> the pøssibilities are endless
03:14:39 <ehird> the pøssibilities indeed.
03:14:46 <oerjan> (that ø was by accident but i decided to keep it)
03:14:58 <ehird> i was about to ask
03:15:02 <oerjan> or rather, i erased then reentered it
03:15:06 <Gregor> Ten years from now, of oerjan's son: <oerjan> (that ø was by accident but i decided to keep it)
03:15:20 <Gregor> (oerjan will name his son "ø", btw)
03:15:41 <ehird> no, it'll be "bumble bumble at 48 i am so old i am practically collapsing with mental fog bumble bumble"
03:15:53 <oerjan> that might not be wise, since it basically means "er" in norwegian
03:16:03 <ehird> "What's your name?" "Er."
03:16:09 <ehird> "You don't your name?" "Yes I do!"
03:16:12 <ehird> "What is it then?" "Er."
03:16:21 <ehird> "..." "I told you! It's er!"
03:16:37 <ehird> I accidentally the er.
03:17:12 <oerjan> otoh the chance of my having a son is somewhere below the chance of earth being hit by an asteroid.
03:18:00 <ehird> it turns out that body of literature we fed the singularity was mostly rape-based fanfiction. turns out you're the 7,302th smartest person alive.
03:18:26 <ehird> i am not entirely sure how an AI has children, though
03:18:34 <ehird> oerjan: i don't even know.
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03:39:20 <Gregor> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
03:39:36 <ehird> except it's timeouting now.
03:40:04 * Sgeo wishes Haskell had good use as a language to know for a career
03:40:35 <ehird> Sgeo: it does, if you start your own company or work for e.g. Galois or Well-Typed
03:40:47 <ehird> if you want to sit in a cubicle following irrational demands from your incompetent boss, sure, it's useless
03:41:20 <Sgeo> ehird, considering that I have no desire to be a manager...
03:41:44 <ehird> sgeo excels at non-sequiturs
03:42:08 <Sgeo> "if you want to sit in a cubicle following irrational demands from your incompetent boss" I'm not exactly going to be running a company any time soon
03:42:23 <ehird> <ehird> Sgeo: it does, if you start your own company or work for e.g. Galois or Well-Typed
03:42:44 <ehird> the latter has absolutely no relation to your line, and the former - you can't exactly "manage" a startup with as many employees as are countable on your hand...
03:42:48 <Sgeo> You imply that Galois and Well-Typed does not have incompetant managers?
03:43:20 <ehird> considering Galois is dons + some people and use Haskell basically exclusively, and Well-Typed is a two-person Haskell consultancy firm, I'd say they're very competent
03:43:46 <Tinned_Tuna> what a useless nugget of info from my equally useless head ;-)
03:43:48 <Sgeo> Chance of me getting a job with Galois or Well-Typed = 0, then
03:43:49 <ehird> So, I'd say that Haskell is only useless for an easy but depressing career.
03:44:05 <ehird> And if you want such a career, why bother souring your programming hobby by association?
03:44:45 <Sgeo> So that on my resume, I can say I am proficient with $lang
03:44:56 <ehird> Non-sequitur yet again.
03:45:20 <ehird> (a) you want a non-soul-crushing programming career, i.e. joining a good company, which gives the possibility to use a language like Haskell, or founding a startup,
03:45:32 <ehird> (b) you want a soul-crushing programming career in a big company in a boring language
03:45:45 <ehird> if (b), then there are plenty similar jobs that don't make you sour your programming hobby by association with your job
03:46:07 <ehird> so any paths leading to "Haskell is totally useless for a career" are simply bad ones
03:46:36 <Tinned_Tuna> I'd say Haskell is useless for some careers
03:46:46 <Sgeo> But how do I gain experience with a language used for (b) without making it part of my hobby programming?
03:47:04 <ehird> Sgeo: you're talking incoherently
03:47:28 <ehird> having a soul-crushing bigcorp job in a boring programming language = you lose the will to program for fun
03:47:50 <ehird> if you don't wish to lose the will to program for run, either go for a decent programming job (= possibility of using Haskell or similar languages) or go for a non-programming job
03:47:56 <ehird> essentially, (b) is the worst imaginable path
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07:21:22 * oerjan looks at the topic and thinks #esoteric keeps sliding towards the other interpretation...
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07:38:12 <zzo38> But I think there is something wrong with the speaker in my computer
07:38:16 <zzo38> I think I dropped the speaker by accident and now it is mixed up?
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07:56:12 * Rugxulo sucks at chess and still beat the Befunge one
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09:27:31 <AnMaster> there is a chess computer in befunge?
09:27:46 <AnMaster> or chess program I guess is a better term here
10:02:00 <fungot> AnMaster: violet's lips moved silently. part of her was certain that the noise was as wrong as ii and ii making v. what shall we do now?' said
10:02:06 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld* europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
10:02:19 <fungot> AnMaster: " well, you see, if all a human thinks about is gold, it told his fingers.
10:02:34 <AnMaster> fizzie, I fear that style didn't work out too well
10:03:32 <fizzie> Not really. Disoptimal parameters? Maybe I should try retraining with the varikn stuff.
10:06:06 <HackEgo> 23|<fizzie after embedding some of his department research into fungot> Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it.
10:06:34 <fizzie> No, I mean: http://varikn.forge.pascal-network.org/
10:07:02 <AnMaster> aha, variable gram size model thing
10:07:39 <fizzie> Urrr, the "ct" style I think. But that's not directly comparable, since there was so little ct data.
10:07:53 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
10:07:58 <fungot> AnMaster: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone?! then i'll repair the masamune!
10:08:21 <AnMaster> heh (yeah I have played a bit of that game since)
10:08:52 <AnMaster> fungot, why was it called crisis arm btw?
10:08:52 <fungot> AnMaster: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... are you all right? of course! you were so young! you ran around saying " daddy! the children are going!
10:08:55 <fizzie> The varikn model-trainer is the only one that's in the fungot repository, since I haven't managed to clean up the messy C++ code I used for the other styles.
10:08:55 <fungot> fizzie: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...
10:09:21 <fizzie> "and our child, it's ancient history now".
10:09:35 <AnMaster> fizzie, near immortal must have said it
10:10:13 <AnMaster> also even though I played the game to near the end (haven't had time for the final boss yet, but finished all but one side quest)...
10:10:27 <AnMaster> some stuff of course is but...
10:10:39 <AnMaster> maybe fungot messed it up a lot
10:10:39 <fungot> AnMaster: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alon
10:10:43 <fungot> Ans: we are looking to achieve a shorter life span... lavos will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place...
10:10:57 <AnMaster> fizzie, was that second one supposed to happen
10:11:12 <fizzie> As in, "no, it was not supposed to happen".
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10:11:47 <AnMaster> fizzie, thought that "An¨¬s¶·Ÿ:" seems like fspace corruption
10:12:17 <fizzie> Yes; it was obviously "AnMaster:" first.
10:12:24 <AnMaster> "we are looking to achieve a shorter life span..."
10:13:02 -!- AnMaster has set topic: #esoteric: <fungot> we are looking to achieve a shorter life span... | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
10:14:25 <fizzie> I'm guessing the later part was from: "That Gate leads to 1999 A.D... It leads to the "Day of Lavos"... Go there only if you're looking to achieve a shorter life span... Lavos will help you leave this mortal coil."
10:14:35 <fizzie> Which is what you get from the "bucket" in end of time.
10:15:17 <AnMaster> sounds like translation failure
10:15:26 <fizzie> No, it's an English idiom.
10:15:29 <AnMaster> oh btw the snes version differs quite a bit in translation from the DS version.
10:15:42 <fizzie> "Derived from 16th Century English, "coil" refers to tumults or troubles. Used idiomatically, the phrase means 'the bustle and turmoil of this mortal life.'"
10:16:07 <fizzie> Yes, it's a new translation; but the SNES version wasn't really a badly broken one either.
10:16:42 <fizzie> "What a beautiful day! The Black Omen sure sparkles in the sun! What a great day for laundry!"
10:17:05 <AnMaster> fizzie, that sounds like the original yeah
10:17:27 <fizzie> I don't know, it's so hilarious it might even be pretty close to the original.
10:17:31 <AnMaster> I didn't get very far in the DS version due to the DS emu I used sucking badly (very very poor framerate)
10:17:50 <AnMaster> fizzie, anyway, any traces of how that bug with the bot above might have happened?
10:17:55 <fizzie> The DS-only quests are a bit boring.
10:19:08 <fizzie> Well, there is the raw log, but it's not really that helpful: https://pastee.org/gypyw
10:20:56 <fizzie> I'm guessing the babble-generator wrote somewhere it shouldn't have, but it's pretty hard to reproduce, without a log of the random numbers involved in producing that sentence.
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10:23:21 <AnMaster> fizzie, what do you call the "the"-form of a noun? It's "bestämd form" in Swedish, but I need the English term for it
10:23:39 <AnMaster> and same for the "a"/"an" form
10:24:07 <fizzie> "The" is called the "definite article", while a/an is the "indefinite article"; I'm not sure if it's just directly those for the noun too.
10:24:30 <AnMaster> fizzie, well in Swedish definite article is based on a suffix
10:24:42 <AnMaster> and I need to discuss a Swedish mistranslation in a bug report to a game here
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10:35:07 <AnMaster> fizzie, I wonder if the bug in the bot is reproducible btw
10:35:23 <AnMaster> and/or if it is a cfunge bug. hm
10:35:28 <AnMaster> maybe fungot messed it up a lot
10:35:28 <fungot> AnMaster: in the middle ages, sir slush!... i grow so tired. we can talk. we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away!
10:36:32 <fizzie> I'm guessing it's a fungot bug, the text generation is pretty messy.
10:36:32 <fungot> fizzie: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch.
10:37:06 <fizzie> fungot: Don't you start threatening me. And what hatch?
10:37:06 <fungot> fizzie: the real queen's safe, right! right. wrong! please return, you will some day! the black wind...
10:37:22 <fizzie> It's like talking to a wall.
10:37:26 <AnMaster> is the text from the snes or DS version?
10:37:33 <fizzie> SNES version, I think.
10:38:16 <fizzie> Could be wrong, though. It was just some fan-transcript from the web; hopefully extracted from the ROM, but I guess it's possible someone did it manually.
10:38:18 <AnMaster> it might be interesting to base it on input. look pick a word in the input phrase and see if found and then start the text generation on that
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10:38:50 <fungot> AnMaster: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch. we must now carry out his sentence. hold your horses! i want to dance! ladeedadeeda! got some spending so much of his time doing research on lavos. but you have it...determination, i mean...
10:39:13 <fungot> AnMaster: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...!
10:39:25 <AnMaster> fungot, stop repeating yourself...
10:39:25 <fungot> AnMaster: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him!
10:39:46 <fizzie> Yes, it would, but it'd need a reverse mapping from text to tokens, which I don't have.
10:39:57 <AnMaster> fungot, you need to go to an asylum I think...
10:39:57 <fungot> AnMaster: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped!!
10:41:09 <fizzie> That "he's really a tricycle" is pretty hilarious out-of-context like that. (Though the bot overuses it a bit.)
10:42:43 <AnMaster> fizzie, what was the contex t?
10:44:08 <fizzie> It's from one of the endings; the one where Marle and Lucca are watching a slideshows. It's referring to THE MAN! of course.
10:44:55 <fizzie> http://mangahelpers.com/t/shrimpy/releases/12409
10:46:02 <fizzie> Also notable for being probably the only place where Crono says something.
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12:21:12 <AnMaster> fizzie, actually looking at that raw log from fungot makes it looks like the buffer wasn't properly cleared the first time
12:21:25 <AnMaster> when could it overwrite the buffer with odd chars
12:26:46 <fizzie> Well, I do use some of the input IRC message buffers as temporary storage when they're no longer needed. Nothing should really write to the actual SOCK 'R' buffer, from which it extracts newline-separated IRC messages.
12:27:21 <fizzie> But that's just a "should".
12:29:13 <fizzie> I use line 0 for reading in data; then I copy full newline-terminated messages out of it into line 3, then extract the message parts to lines 4-x (prefix, command, options); the message handlers then reuse line 3 for constructing the reply message, when a reply is needed.
12:32:02 <fizzie> I would guess in most cases I have a constant 'p' offset, or at least a constant Y coordinate, which should make accidentally writing to wrong place pretty unlikely. But there might still be bugs.
12:35:21 <fizzie> Oh well; time for some outdoorsy things. →
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14:34:24 <oerjan> <augur> oklopol! <-- i think i haven't seen him in a while
14:37:55 <oerjan> AnMaster: There is no such thing as iwc </mib>
14:42:19 <oerjan> also, one should never ask kyros rhetorical questions.
14:43:20 <oerjan> that probably goes for several other characters too
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15:42:53 <Deewiant> http://nermal.org/misc/javascript.jpg
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17:27:18 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> http://nermal.org/misc/javascript.jpg <-- huh
17:50:01 <Deewiant> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT1XuB95qMk&fmt=18 + headphones = awesome
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20:45:45 <Rugxulo> why is AnMaster's site always down?
21:03:38 <augur> hes hosting from home and his mom shuts off his computer when he falls asleep X3
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21:14:10 <Rugxulo> Panu should host more files at the Esolang archive (e.g. Bashfunge) so they aren't lost to the ages :-P
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21:58:53 <Sgeo> At least it's not so belated that impomatic had already left
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22:04:37 <Rugxulo> whatcha been messin' with?
22:05:05 <impomatic> Um, not much at the moment. I've been pretty lazy.
22:05:29 <impomatic> Well, I made a new website but that doesn't count as programming.
22:06:22 <Sgeo> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iRnW_PP9RtYpGgoc5KZiwY84hjrQD9AVNJ303
22:15:30 <Rugxulo> Wikipedia is already updated with it, heh
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23:19:55 <Rugxulo> cool link: http://shinh.skr.jp/obf/
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