00:00:17 <ehird> Switching from a crufty 90s PS/2 rubber dome affair and a two-button-without-even-scroll-wheel 90s PS/2 ball mice on an uber-cheap felt pad to a mechanical keyswitch board and a Razer mouse on a glass mousing pad won't help you not suck :P
00:01:41 -!- oklokok has joined.
00:01:49 <ehird> I wonder why so many mice use discrete scrollwheels.
00:01:57 <ehird> Whussamatter with smooth continuous scrolling
00:02:15 <Gregor> I lurrrrrrrrrrrve discrete scrollwheels.
00:02:23 <Gregor> Lots of things actually make use of the discrete steps.
00:02:34 <Gregor> Although that's chicken-and-egg.
00:02:34 <ehird> What examples, if you may?
00:02:52 <Gregor> Idonno, honestly, as my scroll wheel broke a few months ago and I'm far too lazy/cheap to replace my mouse :P
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00:03:20 <ehird> The only things I can think of are Emacs (and scrolling that with a wheel is an exercise in what the fuck) and iTunes (snaps scrolling to the lines of the library table)
00:03:34 <Gregor> Oh, I remember one thing I did a fekk of a lot, was switch between virtual desktops with the scroll wheel.
00:03:38 <ehird> The former is a crapshoot anyway, the latter wouldn't really make any difference
00:03:41 <Gregor> Which was discrete for obvious reasons.
00:04:04 <ehird> Gregor: That's true. It could just be continuous with a big enough space for each, though. It isn't trivial to click the mouse wheel only one.
00:04:38 <Gregor> I'm not really arguing either way, I just think that it's more useful than you're letting on, albeit harmful to the things it doesn't help with.
00:05:12 <ehird> The MX Revolution lets you click down the scroll wheel to switch between them XD
00:05:19 <ehird> And in continuous mode, you can flick it and it'll keep rolling.
00:06:01 <ehird> OTOH that means you can't click the scroll wheel. Then again, that's not very ergonomic in the first place.
00:06:12 <Gregor> I click the scroll wheel a LOT.
00:06:26 <ehird> No, you click the middle button.
00:06:37 <ehird> That happens to be assigned to the scroll wheel, which is a mouse button in yoour mouse.
00:06:37 <Gregor> Yes, but since that's embedded into the scroll wheel, there.
00:07:02 <Gregor> A three-button mouse with a scroll wheel separate from the middle button would also be acceptable.
00:07:03 <ehird> Gregor: The point is that it's a separate button just below the wheel in the MX Revolution, and the scroll wheel is a mechanical button to switch between continuous/descreet.
00:07:19 <ehird> And this may be a good thing, because clicking the scroll wheel doesn't seem a terribly finger-friendly move to me.
00:07:58 <ehird> OTOH, hitting the button below might require moving one of my fingers off the scroll wheel; sure, having it elevated above the two on the other buttons isn't ergonomic, but it's so damn convenient to be able to do everything at once.
00:15:33 <fizzie> Tramp has been horreebly slow for me; admittedly I've only tried it with org-mode's icalendar-export feature. I've just been using sshfs instead.
00:16:21 <fizzie> There were some "this is how to speed it up" tricks in the TRAMP manual, though.
00:18:02 -!- SimonRC has joined.
00:18:11 <fizzie> (Given that "How could I speed up tramp?" is the third question on the FAQ, right after "where do I get it" and "what does it work on", I'm not the only one who's been bothered by the slowness.
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00:19:53 <ehird> Well, I don't actually recommend using tramp, you understand, but it's gotta be faster than emacs-over-ssh.
00:20:29 <fizzie> Emacs-with-X-over-ssh, certainly. Terminal-Emacs-over-ssh should be fine though.
00:21:24 <fizzie> (And I also have to admit being one of the discrete-wheel lovers, but that again is probably just a matter of what one is accustomed to. "Scroll wheel is middle button" feels reasonably natural nowadays, though it felt pretty strange back when they actually started putting wheels on all mice.)
00:23:01 <fizzie> I used to have a rather funkily shaped three-button no-wheel Logitech.
00:24:35 <fizzie> I think it had some sort of rounded-triangleish shape.
00:25:55 <fizzie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Logitech_3_buttons_mouse.jpeg maybe except with a pattern instead of just plain white.
00:44:28 <ehird> "kernel msg: ebtables bug: please report to author: The table doesn't like its own initial data, lol"
00:44:47 <ehird> (If they have kernel.org, surely I can refer to it as "kernel".)
00:45:24 <ehird> drivers/parisc/superio.c: DBGINIT("_superio_\probe: WTF? Fire Extinguisher?\n");
00:45:25 <ehird> fs/autofs/inode.c: /* Can this call block? - WTF cares? s is locked. */
00:45:31 <ehird> net/atm/ioctl.c: /* WTF? I don't even want to *think* about making this
00:46:11 <ehird> printk("ufsreadsuper: fucking Sun blows me\n"); 2.0.38 /usr/src/linux/fs/ufs/ufssuper.c
00:46:18 <ehird> will we ever find all the fun things in the kernel.
00:53:15 <augur> the preposition "to"
00:53:23 <augur> apparently has the semantics
00:53:43 <ehird> your mom has semantics. like, in bed.
00:54:16 <augur> (e -> t) -> (e -> t) -> ((e -> t) -> (e -> t) -> (e -> t)) -> e -> t
00:55:26 <augur> well, its actually not TOO bad
00:55:26 <oerjan> i say kill it with fire.
00:56:00 <augur> (e -> t) is the type of common noun phrases (so we might abbrviate it in those instances as NP)
00:56:09 <augur> so this is sort of
00:56:13 <augur> NP -> NP -> (NP -> NP -> e -> t) -> e -> t
00:56:17 <oerjan> !haskell :t \f g h -> h f g
00:56:23 <EgoBot> \f g h -> h f g :: t -> t1 -> (t -> t1 -> t2) -> t2
00:56:30 <augur> NP -> NP -> e -> t is the type of a ditransitive verb
00:56:52 <augur> like "give" in "john gave frank a hat"
00:57:00 <augur> so we can just abbreviate that DTV
00:57:08 <augur> so "to" is NP -> NP -> DTV -> e -> t
00:57:28 <augur> that is, take to NPs (as in [give [the book [to [frank]]]]
00:57:49 <augur> and then take a ditransitive verb
00:57:58 <augur> and apply the ditransitive verb to the NPs
00:57:59 <augur> and get back a verb phrase (e -> t)
00:58:18 <augur> in those terms, it doesnt seem so weird, ey?
00:58:26 <augur> but in explicit terms!
01:02:36 <augur> i think YOU should shut up
01:03:05 <ehird> i love how you always give me an opportunity to dictate intonation and timing over IRC
01:03:17 <augur> i was in the bathroom.
01:03:18 <ehird> it's expressive in a way "augur. augur? shut up." isn't
01:03:22 <ehird> you get a FEEL for it!
01:03:27 <augur> but if you want to think of it as that, go ahead
01:03:31 <ehird> AND YET it is even more expressive than "augur. augur. shut up."
01:03:40 <ehird> THAT IS MERELY REDUNDANT, NOT EMPHASIS-FILLED
01:04:16 <ehird> But, it would seem AWKWARD and perhaps even INAPPROPRIATE in the context of any other talking! It requires someone with a liberal use of lowercase, newlines and lack of punctuation to pull off!
01:08:46 <ehird> OH THIS IS A PUN YOU SEE
01:08:55 <ehird> I. A LINGUISTIC TERM
01:08:59 <ehird> II. A COMPUTER SCIENCE TERM
01:09:09 <ehird> III. A COMMON INTERNET ACRONYM FOR "NO PROBLEM"
01:09:39 <augur> its also the logical counterpart to P, which is the shorthand for "preposition" which is the class of words that the word "to" belongs to!
01:09:42 <ehird> Since augur is a linguist, this channel is (ostensibly) about computer science, and we are on IRC, a common medium for such shorthand, this (non-sexual!) triple entrende brings much humour!
01:10:08 <ehird> Additionally, since NP was brought up in a linguistic sense earlier,
01:10:08 <augur> i'd have a triple entendre with you ehird
01:10:28 <ehird> and in fact in the context of the things that caused me to tell augur to shut up in my most delightful fashion,
01:10:38 <ehird> it has an extra punly zest!
01:17:32 <oerjan> although, being gay, he cannot be a very cunning linguist
01:22:47 <augur> actually i know some really hot transboys
01:23:01 <augur> and in those cases it wouldnt bother me.
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01:28:08 <Sgeo> TWO EXPERIENCEd POLISH GIRL WIll ClEAN YOUR HOUSE OFFICE OR APARTMENT PlEASE CAll
01:28:50 <Sgeo> ^^got that in the main, on loose leaf, not in an envelope. It was not xeroxed (I forgot the generic word for that)
01:29:12 <augur> with the weird capitalization?
01:29:23 <Sgeo> Although it looks somewhat better as written
01:29:39 <Sgeo> Oh wait, APARTMEnT not APARTMENT
01:29:49 <Sgeo> Although the N is as big as the rest of the letters
01:30:06 <augur> i see no magic code!
01:31:28 <augur> manually doing type inference is fun
01:43:04 <augur> its also quote enjoyable to try and use types to infer semantics
01:46:17 <ehird> <italics>HOW IS THE AUGUR</italics> goddamn we need +c or -c whichever it is
01:46:34 <ehird> That was me correcting **AUGURY to *AUGURY
01:46:51 <Sgeo> ...I'm about to tell my teacher how to not make either "using namespace std" or "std::whatever" required on modern compilers
01:47:00 <Sgeo> Is this a horrible sin that I'm about to commit?
01:49:21 <Sgeo> Using .h in the name of the header file
01:49:32 <Sgeo> #include <iostream.h> instead of #include <iostream>
01:49:35 <pikhq> ... Namespace fail.
01:50:21 <pikhq> I was hoping for "Use 'import std' instead of headers".
01:51:41 <pikhq> (headers are t3h suck. Nothing other than C should ever use them -- and C is only allowed to because it's absurdly old.)
01:52:41 <Sgeo> pikhq, does C++ have import?
01:52:51 <pikhq> It has no excuse, though.
02:00:11 <ehird> pikhq: Hey hey, import considered harmful!
02:00:45 <ehird> http://gbracha.blogspot.com/2009/06/ban-on-imports.html
02:00:45 <ehird> http://gbracha.blogspot.com/2009/07/ban-on-imports-continued.html
02:00:50 <pikhq> ehird: Compared with headers, though?
02:00:54 <ehird> Keep up wit da programming avant garde, mon :P
02:01:14 <pikhq> Headers are a freaking archaicism.
02:01:19 <ehird> pikhq: "Porn!" "2girls1cup? Eww. I was hoping for goatse."
02:08:10 <coppro> There are plans to get rid of headers for C++
02:08:20 <coppro> or more accurately, provide a better approach
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02:22:25 <pikhq> Do those plans involve getting rid of C++?
02:22:49 <ehird> You know, we have two people in this channel who do not dislike C++.
02:23:26 * pikhq gets out the tar, feathers
02:23:35 <ehird> coppro, and Sgeo. I fear that this 5.56% coalition is threatening our national security.
02:24:00 * Sgeo wants a language that is true to the metal
02:24:13 * pikhq hands Sgeo an assembler
02:24:14 <Sgeo> I should probably learn assembler
02:24:25 <ehird> Why do you want such a language?
02:24:32 <pikhq> You will then want to torch your metal to the ground.
02:24:33 <ehird> The metal of an x86 *sucks*.
02:24:34 <Sgeo> ehird, to learn!
02:24:50 <ehird> Learn meaningless bullshit without even any fun retro benefit? Awesome
02:25:25 <Sgeo> How is learning more about how my computer works "meaningless"?
02:25:38 <ehird> Learning x86 assembly doesn't do that.
02:25:43 <ehird> It's just as abstract as any language.
02:25:52 <Sgeo> How is assembly abstract?
02:26:03 <pikhq> If you really want to know how it works, start doing some circuit design.
02:26:06 <ehird> All the details about how computer chips actually do things are hidden; assembly is a symbolic language, just a crappy one.
02:26:11 <ehird> Assembly isn't even the lowest code level
02:26:27 <ehird> Assembly instructions are implemented in the architecture-specific, proprietary, read-only microcode.
02:26:32 <ehird> And even that is abstract!
02:27:04 <ehird> The only way to learn how processors work is chip design.
02:27:04 <pikhq> It elides over such details as 'what is 0' and 'what is 1'.
02:27:17 <ehird> Anything else is just learning the arbitrary details of the horrible not-even-base language the brain-damaged industry inflicted on us.
02:28:53 <ehird> Waking up from a dream and going "dammit, that doesn't actually exist" is annoying.
02:30:14 <oerjan> Waking up from a dream and going "dammit, i hope that doesn't exist", perhaps less so
02:32:00 <Sgeo> Can C++ be mechanically turned to C?
02:32:40 <ehird> That is why Cfront is a hoax.
02:32:42 <pikhq> Once upon a time it could.
02:32:56 <ehird> pikhq: "I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too."
02:33:20 <pikhq> Oh, they still have Cfront? *shudder*
02:33:22 <ehird> Unless C++'s compilation results actually require infinite memory :P
02:33:31 <ehird> pikhq: Of course you can translate C++ to C mechanically, I mean
02:34:36 <Sgeo> According to Wikipedia, Cfront is dead, but there's something else
02:35:09 <ehird> Whatever you're trying to do, don't.
02:35:19 <Sgeo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comeau_C/C%2B%2B
02:35:26 <Sgeo> ehird, don't learn>
02:35:30 <ehird> In fact I might as well hereby revoke your programming license before you do any more crap.
02:35:37 <ehird> TURNS OUT I HAVE THAT POWER
02:35:54 <ehird> Sgeo: So when are you starting your research on the intimate properties of fecal matter?
02:44:53 <Sgeo> Would there be any point in learning Pascal?
02:52:54 <ehird> [[The programming language Pascal has become the dominant language of instruction in computer science education. It has also strongly influenced languages developed subsequently, in particular Ada.
02:52:55 <ehird> Pascal was originally intended primarily as a teaching language, but it has been more and more often recommended as a language for serious programming as well, for example, for system programming tasks and even operating systems.
02:52:55 <ehird> Pascal, at least in its standard form, is just plain not suitable for serious programming. This paper discusses my personal discovery of some of the reasons why.]]
02:52:55 <ehird> — Brian W. Kernighan, April 2, 1981, "Why Pascal is Not My Favorite Programming Language"
02:55:23 * Sgeo vaguely wonders what an Avatar the Last Airbender video is doing in the section of his favorites that predate knowledge of what Avatar even is
02:57:07 <Sgeo> I only have 20 videos favorited between September 2008 and March 2009? WTF?
03:01:06 <Sgeo> [[There's a school in my neighbourhood that tells children that they may answer any question with 'god' and it will always be the right answer -_-;; Yup, education...]]
03:01:13 <Sgeo> ~A YouTube comment
03:05:09 <Ilari> Even if propaganda is not that blatant, there's a lot of it in elementary school...
03:16:33 <ehird> Ilari: education is propaganda
03:16:40 <ehird> Sgeo: "Who do you hate? "God"
03:16:44 <ehird> "Who doesn't exist?" "God"
03:16:50 <ehird> "Who had sex with yo momma last night?" "God!"
03:17:02 <oerjan> "Who killed John F. Kennedy?"
03:17:16 <oerjan> (but then he was a liberal so...)
03:17:26 <Ilari> What was the Mark Twain quote about School and education again...
03:17:47 <oerjan> i never let school get in the way of my education?
03:22:23 <Ilari> And that propaganda includes "educational" videos, which are pure unsound propaganda.
03:23:14 <ehird> A rather vague statement; care to clarify "'educational' videos"?
03:24:37 <Ilari> Videos which pretend to tell about something, but instead are disinformation.
03:25:18 <ehird> I don't disagree, but for instance…
03:25:44 <Ilari> Pretty much any Health ed. video.
03:26:06 <Ilari> Especially if about what to eat.
03:26:26 <ehird> Oh, not this topic again
03:26:51 <Ilari> Also, history videos might be those as well.
03:26:53 <ehird> I'm fairly sure the official healthy eating material isn't purposefully malicious disinformation, even if it is misguided
03:27:51 * Sgeo needs to see a nutritionist
03:28:51 <Sgeo> My current food intake: Cheerios, chicken sandwich with lettuce and onions on school days, and pasta with cheese
03:29:35 <ehird> Don't be dissin' Cheerios. I don't care if you weren't dissin' Cheerios, you had Cheerios in a sentence vaguely related to dissin' and that is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN
03:29:59 <Ilari> Well, there are those that genuinely believe current party line about "healthy eating". And there are those that do know better but still parrot the party line.
03:30:37 <ehird> You know, I think this is the first food pyramid conspiracy I've heard of. Does it have the All-Seeing Eye on it? :-P
03:31:12 <Warrigal> I have not yet forgotten that proper food is a luxury.
03:31:22 <Sgeo> Counting ones in comics, I've heard of others
03:31:26 <Sgeo> Well, one other
03:31:30 <Warrigal> It's a luxury I have access to about five times a week.
03:31:51 <Warrigal> There's a buffet place on campus that I go to the majority of the time.
03:32:09 <Sgeo> Warrigal, you go to college 5 times a week?
03:32:55 <Warrigal> Which would have been a stupid plan, had it been the plan.
03:32:55 * ehird holds down ⌘A, watches the "Edit" menu's text switch from black to white (and the background from slate-blueish to blue) so fast that it goes weird colours
03:33:59 <ehird> The colour-fringing from the subpixel antialiasing that it only does in the blue+white form for some reason becomes visible too.
03:35:20 <Ilari> Its more like that big business can buy both goverment and media. And also corrupt patient organizations.
03:35:59 <ehird> I can't resist. what's your opinion on fluoride
03:36:02 <Ilari> This food pyramid thing is just one manifestation of that.
03:38:08 <Ilari> ehird: Haven't got data on typical concentrations, toxicity and accumulation characteristics. So not real opinion.
03:38:25 <ehird> Specifically its addition to toothpaste and the water supplies
03:39:52 <Ilari> Want another example of big business buying (at least goverment and to lesser extent media): Global warming.
03:40:51 <ehird> Are you saying as in "Al Gore is a hypocrite" or "Climate change is a lie"
03:41:00 <ehird> Because I can agree with the first but not the second
03:42:10 <Ilari> More like "Climate change is real, and previous worst case estimates often prove optimistic"... But no action...
03:42:54 <Ilari> events of summer 2007 shot pretty much all ice models to hell. Etc.
03:43:10 <ehird> What, we have to DO things to stop it happening?! I am shocked. :P
03:44:31 <Ilari> Well, there are things about climate forecasts I don't agree with. But those involve inputs to models, not the models themselves.
03:49:35 <Ilari> Oh, and also I think climate models are too optimistic due to simplifications they make (especially effects not modelled).
03:50:09 <Ilari> Optimistic => underpredicts change.
03:50:33 <ehird> It's a good thing that "we're severely fucked" and "we're severely hugely fucked" can both only be solved by massive societal changes that will account for both.
03:50:45 <ehird> And, well, it's also a bad thing due to massive societal changes being hard.
03:50:56 <ehird> Let's get to work on a Dyson sphere.
03:51:35 <Ilari> Agree on at least being "severly fucked".
03:56:04 <Ilari> And also some parts of world have quite high population densities which can barely be supported today with industrial farming... In case of widespread system distruption, things could get VERY ugly.
03:57:01 * ehird wonders what http://typophile.com/files/sbpx_3996.png and http://typophile.com/files/roman_tr_5609.png look like on a CRT — legible handmade 3 pixel x-height entirely RGB subpixel font
03:57:54 <ehird> Probably like smudges. I can actually read most of the text in the first one sitting at a normal distance... "Lorim ipsum dolor sit am(something)- (something) ipsum miha on Typohil.com"
03:58:16 <ehird> Of course, it'd be easier to read if there wasn't that intentional typo to test its legibility.
03:58:18 <Ilari> Almost readable (mostly being too small).
03:58:32 <ehird> At least I think the typo is intentional.
03:58:59 <ehird> Ilari: I guess the fact that the general shape is still right even viewed monochromatically helps.
03:59:12 * ehird uses Sim Daltonism to see what it looks like with various forms of colourblindness
03:59:20 * ehird turns off Flux for accurate colour reproduction while doing so
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04:00:36 * Sgeo decides to get rid of his current Emacs installation and install EmacsW32
04:00:45 <ehird> Oh, apparently Color Oracle might be better.
04:00:55 <ehird> Sgeo: The best place to download EmacsW32 is at http://vim.org/
04:01:03 <Ilari> BTW: Applying red-green colorblindness filter to color within RGB gamut can result color outside it.
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04:02:00 <Sgeo> Emacs has a vim emulator, apparently
04:02:07 <Sgeo> So why ever use vim if emacs is installed?
04:02:43 <ehird> Yeah, it's just a bit too smudged.
04:02:49 <ehird> Sgeo: You really have to ask that?
04:03:08 <ehird> Ignoring entirely your incredibly brain-damaged conclusion, it does not have a vim emulator.
04:03:16 <ehird> It has viper, which assigns a subset of vim keys to similar emacs operations.
04:03:21 <ehird> Just editing commands.
04:03:58 <Sgeo> What else is there to vim besides editing commands?
04:04:07 <ehird> ..................
04:04:13 <Sgeo> And saving, and stuff
04:04:15 <ehird> `addquote <Sgeo> What else is there to vim besides editing commands?
04:04:16 <HackEgo> 89|<Sgeo> What else is there to vim besides editing commands?
04:04:21 <ehird> Gregor: (because he needs to see this for the lulz)
04:04:25 <ehird> And, uh, stop talking about editors.
04:04:44 <Gregor> ... what else ... is ther e... to vim ... ... besides editing commands???
04:05:03 <coppro> we should make an esoteric editor channel
04:05:03 <ehird> [04:02] Sgeo: Emacs has a vim emulator, apparently
04:05:03 <ehird> [04:02] Sgeo: So why ever use vim if emacs is installed?
04:05:13 <coppro> for things like butterfly coding
04:09:34 <Sgeo> WHY would I ever want to use the Win key for Meta?
04:09:55 <ehird> Because Emacs has super as well as meta.
04:10:01 <ehird> Also, why would you ever want to:
04:10:05 <ehird> (a) play tetris in your editor?
04:10:15 <ehird> (b) I'd go on, but listing all the ridiculous bloat emacs has is old hat.
04:10:24 <coppro> win key for meta is very sensible
04:10:29 <coppro> don't see why you'd want otherwis
04:10:32 <ehird> (c) The point is that if you're surprised by it, combined with your ignorance of vim,
04:10:38 <ehird> (d) why are you recommending emacs to people?
04:10:47 <coppro> what would you prefer? Context menu key for meta?
04:10:48 <ehird> (e) This list is not actually one. Fun fact.
04:10:57 <ehird> coppro: The most common is alt...
04:11:06 <coppro> alt is for alt, thankyouverymuch
04:11:13 <ehird> And what does alt do?
04:11:17 <ehird> Oh yeah, auxillary keyboard shortcuts.
04:11:19 <Sgeo> coppro, I'd like Win+D to minimize everything, even if I'm in emacs
04:11:26 <coppro> mostly modifies other keyboard shortcuts
04:11:35 <ehird> BTW, on Lisp Machine keyboards Control was where Alt is on modern machines. And Meta is where Control is.
04:11:52 <coppro> I've gotten used to Ctrl+Alt for most application shortcuts, for instance, because that's all Windows allows
04:11:55 <ehird> WIMP-style interfaces (apart from OS X) also use Control for most commands and Alt less often.
04:12:04 <ehird> So the positioning of them on most keyboards is completely backwards.
04:12:25 <ehird> Window, icon, menu, pointer.
04:12:39 <ehird> (Or weakly interacting massive particle, an astonishingly apropos term from physics.)
04:13:32 <ehird> (WIMP applications are large — they duplicate a lot of functionality and generally you switch "to" them; they are particles in of themselves in this way. They don't have a unified way to plug into other applications, so you do everything from within them and then go through tedious save/load or export/import processes, etc…)
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04:43:45 <Sgeo> Yesterday and Today's User Friendly look like they're going in a morbid direction :/
04:46:40 <ehird> UserFriendly still exists? Oh yeah, I forgot, it has to; otherwise the universe would have no unifying source of suck.
04:47:36 * Sgeo watches a YouTube video via VLC
04:48:54 <ehird> "Piracy Payback, a website that collects donations from downloaders and distributes them to rightsholder organizations in Europe and North America"
04:48:57 <ehird> Oh boy I can't wait!
04:49:07 <ehird> I'll donate negative dollars.
04:52:20 <Sgeo> Right-clicking my desktop when using a DirectX wallpaper thing was not so helpful
04:53:28 <ehird> DirectX wallpaper?
04:53:48 <ehird> Seriously, I'm just wondering if you filled your cranium with bees or something instead of the usual brain matter...
04:53:54 <ehird> DirectX. Wallpaper.
04:54:25 <Sgeo> ehird, I'm just experimenting
04:54:50 <ehird> "I'm just experimenting with eating nothing but dog excrement, you see." :P
04:56:05 <Sgeo> At any rate, this is an awesome video
04:56:17 <ehird> "Where were we, if we're here with her now? Whether weather interfered, enter "fear" to affect an effect. It's their problem its hair's there, Hare. Poop.
04:56:17 <ehird> Were where we, if were hear wither now? Weather whether enter "fear", interfere to effect an affect. Its there problem it's here's their, Here. Shit."
04:57:02 <ehird> I love the gratuitous poop/shit.
04:57:11 <ehird> …don't take that out of context.
04:57:26 <ehird> I wonder if I should get into the habit of using proper apostrophes and quotes and stuff, but those extra modifier keys are so much work.
05:01:22 <Sgeo> Why is whether or not VLC can open a YouTube video seemingly random?
05:01:39 <ehird> Your mother is random, so it turns out.
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05:30:16 <Sgeo> Warrigal: If I were to run an IRC bot, would you be angry?
05:32:18 <Sgeo> ehird, on normish
05:32:29 <ehird> I don't think even Warrigal could have inferred that context.
05:37:57 <coppro> therefore, just run your bot, and Warrigal can pass a proposal (or use sudo magic, same thing) if e disagrees
05:47:38 <ehird> such codenomics generally have the metarule "don't be a dick".
05:48:42 <ehird> [INTERLUDE: Safari crashes, I hit “Relaunch”, and then click History → Reopen All Windows from Last Session, all while wondering why that isn’t the default.]
05:48:59 <ehird> The magical “uncrash” button!
05:49:36 <ehird> I click the same link, and it crashes again. I wonder if I should upgrade Safari. Rebooting is so hard, though…
05:50:21 <ehird> Heh, and it asks me if I want to temporarily reset Safari’s settings because it crashed after relaunching from a crash.
05:50:27 <ehird> Nah; I think I’ll instead try clicking again.
05:51:03 <ehird> [clicks the magical uncrash button] Bam bam bam bam pow! A series of windows pop up and proceed to desperately load pages.
05:54:44 <ehird> I’m reading some miscellaneous windows I had floating about and closing those that I’m done with; maybe some spring cleaning will coerce Safari into opening that page.
05:55:01 <ehird> (I’m not even *that* interested in reading the page, but you know, get me started on a project…)
05:55:02 <Sgeo> ....Joel got the Emacs and vi bindings backwards
05:55:12 <Sgeo> "Emacs fanatics memorized ":q!" (and nothing else) in case they ever found themselves stuck in vi by mistake, while vi users memorized "C-x C-c" (Emacs even has its own way to represent control characters)."
05:55:16 <Sgeo> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000061.html
05:55:34 <oerjan> Sgeo: erm, that's correct
05:55:50 <ehird> The users of one editor just memorise the quit command for the other.
05:56:00 <Sgeo> I misread that line
05:56:00 <ehird> Anyway, Joel Spolsky is an idiot, by the way.
05:56:06 <Sgeo> >.> I'll shut up now
05:56:08 <Sgeo> ehird, hm, howso?
05:56:31 <ehird> His older stuff has more merit, but generally his articles fall into one of two categories: the first, obvious, and the second, idiotic. The second has one notable subcategory: Microsoft apologia.
05:57:28 <ehird> I feel more intelligent when typing in correct English with full use of appropriate typography. I wonder why that is.
05:58:25 <ehird> Heh — [[Fine, so, it's stunningly beautiful]] in response to http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/pictures/Quit_Soap.gif; our definitions of “stunningly beautiful” must differ, Joel. Then again, maybe everyone was crazy in 2000.
05:58:26 <oerjan> thats just retarded ehird
05:58:54 <ehird> oerjan: My mind instantly categorised that line as “augur”; I had to override my recognition engine and look at the name purposefully.
05:59:30 <Sgeo> ehird, I think it's attractive
05:59:37 <augur> when do i say things like that
05:59:40 <oerjan> you'd otherwise think a linguist would use correct punctuation...
05:59:55 <ehird> oerjan: <augur> oerjan: actually, no!
06:00:07 <ehird> oerjan: <augur> [long-winded rant that nobody cares about]
06:00:08 <augur> oerjan: actually, no!
06:00:34 <augur> [non-rant because im watching dark angel]
06:00:41 * augur rapes ehird like the cunt bitch he is
06:00:44 <ehird> augur: You conspicuously omit punctuation and capitalisation; I don’t know of anyone else in here that says “thats”. Plus, you often refer to me by appending my name unadorned to the end of a message.
06:00:55 <ehird> Also, you never agree with me. :P
06:01:20 <augur> i agree with you plenty, ehird
06:01:36 <ehird> Also, wrong on both accounts! I am neither a vagina (nor do I have one), nor am I a female dog.
06:02:03 <oerjan> i am not sure about the dog part
06:02:11 <augur> or that vagina part
06:02:13 <ehird> IN A WORLD WHERE I RESPOND TO SUCH QUERIES SERIOUSLY: Also, wrong on both accounts! I am not female, which is a prerequisite for being either a cunt or a bitch.
06:02:32 <ehird> oerjan: On the internet, nobody knows you’re an unfunny cartoon?
06:02:52 <ehird> I assume you refer to http://www.ricklatona.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/picresized_1229584137_youreadog.gif.
06:02:56 <augur> ehird, sure they do. thats why they know it about you!
06:02:59 * oerjan doesn't recall the original cartoon for that meme
06:03:05 <ehird> (I like the filename; “youreadog”.)
06:03:13 <ehird> oerjan: I believe it is that comic. It fails to be funny.
06:03:29 <ehird> Or humorous, maybe it fails to be humorous. I’m no wording nazi!
06:03:41 <ehird> There’s probably a fancy linguist term for “wording”. augur?
06:03:56 <augur> i dont know, im not a wording nazi either
06:05:37 <ehird> Okay, no, seriously, I will break with British punctuation for “pedophile”.
06:06:08 <oerjan> i think philology is like philosophy, the -logy is not actually in its usual suffix sense but means "of words"
06:07:34 <augur> or its study of philo!
06:07:42 <ehird> Philology, astrology; what’s the difference. (4, according to the Levenshtein distance.)
06:07:46 -!- ehird has left (?).
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06:08:09 <augur> which i guess is "love of" right?
06:08:18 <ehird> That part and join was a political statement… uh, on the nature of fat-fingeredness, I guess.
06:08:48 <oerjan> philology has the composition backwards from modern germanic languages
06:08:54 <oerjan> or something like that
06:09:05 <oerjan> (like english or norwegian)
06:09:26 <oerjan> and yes, greek is not germanic
06:10:38 <ehird> Ugh, Verdana’s {’} is so ugly.
06:10:53 <ehird> (I should probably come up with a better of quoting odd stuff than {…}.)
06:11:45 <oerjan> you lost your way there, i think
06:15:08 <ehird> oerjan: I’m not responsible for any serial killing I do in your name if you don’t explain the joke. :P
06:15:24 <Gregor> https://codu.org/projects/gjs/hg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/app/test.js I'M EVIL and now I'm going to sleep.
06:15:35 <ehird> oerjan: I… lost my +way?
06:15:56 <ehird> Gregor: What’s so evil, apart from the include() idiocy?
06:16:14 <ehird> Waitwaitwait, is this making a JSMIPS display?
06:16:24 <Gregor> lawl, no, although it could technically go in that direction.
06:16:31 <ehird> What’s the point, then?
06:16:36 <ehird> Looks just like a <canvas> to me.
06:16:42 <Gregor> This is a snippet of JS code that (with the GJS framework) runs both in a web browser and as an application.
06:17:04 <ehird> That’s… pretty pointless, yep.
06:18:38 <ehird> oerjan: Incidentally, are my wonderful typographical flourishes showing up as full stops to you?
06:19:21 <ehird> (I hate the name “full stop”; why can’t it be something graceful like “asterisk”, “ampersand”, “hyphen”, “ellipsis”, “octothorpe”, …?)
06:19:41 <oerjan> what's wrong with period?
06:20:17 <ehird> IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE WHERE I SEND MESSAGES SO THAT THEY LOOK AS THEY WOULD RENDERED BY OERJAN’S CLIENT IN THE REGULAR UNIVERSE: (I hate the name .full stop.; why can.t it be something graceful like .asterisk., .ampersand., .hyphen., .ellipsis., .octothorpe., .?)
06:20:33 <ehird> oerjan: They’re sexist, only women get them. Plus, I hear they’re rather uncomfortable.
06:20:46 <oerjan> no, your quotes turn into " mostly
06:20:48 <ehird> …which is, incidentally, my answer to both meanings of that question.
06:21:07 <ehird> oerjan: Ah. Then that message was written IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE WHERE I LIE.
06:21:30 <oerjan> your ellipsis, on the other hand, turns into full stops (3 of them)
06:21:58 <oerjan> while anything irssi doesn't actually understand turns into ?
06:22:43 <ehird> I thought Unicode jiggery-pokery, at least the non-understood variety, was turned into full stops by your client.
06:22:51 <ehird> You’ve that that in the past, I think.
06:22:57 <ehird> Well, more than think; I’m fairly sure.
06:23:15 <oerjan> your grammar is seriously deteriorating
06:23:21 <ehird> Alright then. Any reason why you won’t set up your terminal to be all UTF-8? :P
06:23:34 <ehird> oerjan: I don’t see how it’s deteriorating at all.
06:23:44 <oerjan> <ehird> You've that that in the past, I think.
06:24:13 <ehird> (Perl regular expression syntax is so… uncouth.)
06:24:22 <ehird> (That’s a rightwards-pointing arrow, by the way.)
06:25:39 <AnMaster> <ehird> [18:03] AnMaster: fizzie, sucks if you prefer lightly toasted bread :P
06:25:39 <AnMaster> <ehird> MILDLY BROWN! MILDLY BROWN!
06:25:44 <ehird> oerjan: I’d rather have nitpicked “all UTF-8”.
06:25:59 <ehird> AnMaster: Toast should be mildly brown! Unless you’re toasting brown bread, in which case it should be, uh, brown.
06:26:24 <ehird> oerjan: As in, it’s rendered as {->}, or it’s a single glyph that resembles {->}?
06:26:26 <AnMaster> ehird, no... it should be "slightly brown" which is one step lower
06:26:47 <ehird> AnMaster: Heretic. Die. Burn. Fire. Brimstone. Suffering. Eternal. Go. Now.
06:27:25 <ehird> Incidentally, I hear eternal fire and brimstone makes for some *excellent* toast.
06:27:25 <oerjan> toast, a rarely noticed but fierce english holy war
06:29:24 <ehird> But sometimes they don’t make sense
06:30:00 * oerjan swats ehird for bungling the meter on the last line -----###
06:30:40 <ehird> That’s the joke! Stop swatting me. It’s an adaptation of a common joke!
06:30:52 <ehird> NORMALLY IT SAYS “REFRIGERATOR” INSTEAD OF “BURMA-SHAVE”!
06:31:17 <oerjan> I AM FULLY AWARE. AUM. ALSO, -----###
06:31:41 <ehird> Also, is http://xkcd.com/647/ meant to be funny or something? Rare is the 8-year-old who would say such a thing without being told to (as in the hover text), and you could probably get a good portion of 6-year-olds to say the same, albeit possibly simplified.
06:31:59 <oerjan> my first impression was "empty"
06:32:06 <oerjan> no content worth mentioning
06:32:19 <ehird> So is the joke “Hey, there are kids born after 9/11 who are OLD ENOUGH TO SUCCESSFULLY CARRY OUT INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN TO THEM BY AN ADULT!”?
06:32:25 <ehird> Because… that’s not actually funny.
06:32:33 <ehird> Oh, wait, it’s xkcd.
06:33:21 <ehird> oerjan: Also, did you seriously just give a damning critique of an xkcd comic?
06:33:24 <ehird> Because… that’s not like you.
06:33:58 <ehird> (I’ve said “Because…” twice in two minutes! What has become of this world‽)
06:34:10 <ehird> (Okay, okay, no more interrobangs, I swear, STOP SWATTING ME)
06:35:12 <oerjan> interrobangs show up as ? incidentally.
06:35:43 <ehird> It was “What has become of this world[interrobang]”.
06:35:46 <ehird> oerjan: Who, me or you?
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06:38:08 <ehird> http://www.mezzacotta.net/?p=230
06:39:22 <ehird> I finally re-clicked that link. Safari promptly crashed.
06:43:59 <ehird> http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?pid=fkb10487
06:44:32 <ehird> So, I *can* replace the Windows key, albeit for a ridiculous price and a lot of waste.
06:45:05 <ehird> Furthermore, if the non-Otaku edition comes back in stock I can just get two of those replacement sets; one to make the keycaps blank, and another to replace the Windows keys.
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06:50:58 <oklopol> also nothing wrong with the xkcd imo
06:52:38 <ehird> oklopol: Nothing… “wrong” with it, but it isn’t funny.
06:53:28 <ehird> That is generally considered a floor for a comic (from “comedy”). :P
06:53:45 <ehird> Homonym typos are so weird, and your mom is homo in bed. Uhh.
06:53:54 <ehird> And I... guess that’s weird?
06:55:15 <oklopol> took quite a second to realize those two are homonyms
06:55:26 <oklopol> perhaps partly because i pronounce the r a bit
06:55:35 <oklopol> hello ehird you're an ircer dude
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06:55:43 <ehird> Yeah I believe so!!
06:55:48 <ehird> I totally am. Rad.
06:55:49 <oklopol> maybe i should start introducing others to others
06:56:05 <oklopol> hi ehird, the guy who came in is FireFly!
06:56:14 <ehird> Back to proper grammar now.
06:56:22 <ehird> oklopol: Total dude? I am intrigued by this concept.
06:56:29 <ehird> What is a total dude?
06:56:48 <oklopol> don't ask me, i just introduce
06:57:24 <ehird> oklopol's a Finnish total introducer.
06:57:30 <ehird> Introducer, transducer, what is the difference.
06:58:11 <ehird> FireFly: Is your typing POSITIVELY HARDCORE with MANLY QWERTY, LAYOUT OF KINGS?†
06:58:27 <ehird> † I am only saying this because I’ve (half-heartedly) tried, and failed, to switch to Dvorak.
06:58:54 <FireFly> Actually, I still _can_ write on Qwerty, though semi-slow
07:00:22 <oklopol> i once tried to switch to dvorak, but i did it using software, which always leads to stopping to use said software after a few days
07:00:45 <ehird> oklopol: Heh, why?
07:01:06 <ehird> Not that I expect a coherent answer; I mean, you *are* oklopol.
07:01:14 <oklopol> why change? i hate qwerty, not as much as i hate the fact the rows of keys aren't aligned sensibly, but i hate it.
07:01:37 <ehird> That staggering is stupid, indeed. But the latter.
07:01:54 <ehird> oklopol: Do you hunt-and-peck or touch type?
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07:06:10 <ehird> THE WORLD WILL NEVER KNOW.
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07:26:09 <Rugxulo> I know mtve is never here, but ...
07:26:21 <Rugxulo> seems his eta_hello.bef works in Emacs' Befunge-mode.el (just really really slow)
07:26:22 <ehird> You should probably try to email him.
07:27:00 <ehird> Also, *-mode is a mode to edit *, not a mode to run *.
07:28:51 <ehird> Then it shouldn’t be called befunge-mode.
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07:35:56 <Rugxulo> hmmm, Win32 Emacs whines: "Args out of range"
07:36:02 <Rugxulo> yet it works in the DJGPP build :-P
07:36:11 -!- ehird has joined.
07:36:30 <Rugxulo> you missed my report: "args out of range" (Win32) while DJGPP works fine
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07:47:00 <Rugxulo> okay, take it back, works in Win32 Emacs too ;-)
07:48:38 <ehird> Win32 Emacs = EmacsW32 or regular Emacs?
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07:48:48 <oklopol> ehird: something in-between
07:49:13 <ehird> EmacsW32 = CVS Emacs + Windows-helping patches.
07:49:20 <Rugxulo> GNU Emacs 23.1.1 (i386-mingw-nt6.0.6002) of 2009-07-29 on SOFT-MJASON
07:49:21 <oklopol> i move my hands around the kb
07:49:22 <ehird> Should be merged into mainline but won’t be.
07:49:34 <oklopol> i would learn to touch type if i had a proper keyboard
07:49:43 <ehird> oklopol: I class touch-typing as typing without having to think where the keys are, fuck everything else
07:49:49 <ehird> Who cares about the home row?
07:49:53 <oklopol> well obviously i don't think where keys are
07:50:07 <oklopol> but moving my hands leads to me making a lot of mistakes
07:50:51 <oklopol> also i have to look when pressing some of the special chars
07:52:06 <ehird> I know where !, @, #, $, %, &, ( and ) are on the top row.
07:52:09 <ehird> Maybe ^ at a stretch.
07:52:23 <ehird> I always have to look to get *; usually I just use the numpad version.
07:52:32 <ehird> But I know where all the other special keys are.
07:53:09 <oklopol> i use * for corrections, so it's basically my middle name
07:53:25 <ehird> oklopol * omniovorol
07:53:32 <ehird> Or however you spell it.
07:54:37 <Rugxulo> easy to remember 'cause vi uses Ctrl-6 (or Ctrl-^) to switch files (aka, :e#)
07:55:04 <Rugxulo> P.S. ehird, ever used Acrobat Reader for DOS 8-)
07:55:10 <ehird> Yeah, but I can't touch-type numbers on the top row.
07:55:17 <ehird> So I can't go, oh, this is 6.
07:55:20 <ehird> Well, I did just there.
07:55:38 <ehird> Rugxulo: No. I hope to never use another version of Reader in my life.
07:55:43 <Rugxulo> well, the whole reason for a numpad is that it's easier to type numbers, right?
07:55:47 <ehird> I used to, back in the 5 days, iirc, but I was young and naive.
07:55:55 <ehird> Boy it took a long time to start up.
07:56:02 <Rugxulo> ehird, it's an old (DOS/4G-based??) version that doesn't accept modern .PDFs, heh, it's kinda a bad joke
07:56:05 <ehird> Rugxulo: No, it's easier to type *solely* numbers, and LONG strings of numbers.
07:56:21 <ehird> It's manifestly much slower when you add in the time it takes to move to the numpad and back.
07:56:22 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
07:56:32 <ehird> Besides, it's negligible unless you're tallying numbers all day.
07:56:58 <Rugxulo> anyways, got this old CD-ROM game (Falcon 3.0) which had Acroread for DOS and separately Win 3.1 version ('cause the manual was in .PDF)
07:57:00 <oklopol> and you can't stand using it anyway because it's hand racist
07:57:28 <ehird> Cross your hands and try to type
07:57:43 <ehird> It'd suptrermrliucikbfgyadiujb
07:57:48 <ehird> It's supremely confusing.
07:58:06 <ehird> Hey! Fun idea time! Can Windows 3.11 run on FreeDOS?
07:58:07 <Rugxulo> I think the Lynx is the only (or one of the only) reversable portable gaming machines
07:58:10 <ehird> It can run on DOSBox.
07:58:21 <Rugxulo> ehird, in /S "standard mode", yes, but not in 386 enhanced
07:58:30 <ehird> Oh, so in boring DOS-compatibility mode only?
07:58:33 <Rugxulo> too many undocumented things, and apparently the developers aren't interested
07:58:34 <ehird> THAT IS LAME LIKE A LAME THING
07:58:34 <oklopol> okay i'm not very fluent at cross-typing
07:58:54 <ehird> `addquote <oklopol> hmm, this is hard
07:58:57 <HackEgo> 90|<oklopol> hmm, this is hard
07:59:03 <ehird> IMMORTALISED FOREVER
07:59:09 <HackEgo> 75|* ehird disables javascript
07:59:12 <HackEgo> 20|<Warrigal> I'm the mug guy.
07:59:15 <HackEgo> 67|<Deewiant> Reality isn't a part of physics
07:59:17 <HackEgo> 60|<Sgeo> Mafia's addictin
07:59:20 <HackEgo> 68|<ehird> thanks AnMaster
07:59:23 <HackEgo> 73|<AnMaster> ehird, well yes probably
07:59:27 <ehird> GIVE ME A TWO-LINED ONE
07:59:29 <HackEgo> 84|<Warrigal> Porn. <Warrigal> There, see?
07:59:33 <ehird> Yay. ...wait, what?
07:59:33 <oklopol> ehird: did you master cross-typing right away?
07:59:40 <ehird> oklopol: No, I did it for only one line:
07:59:47 <ehird> [07:57] ehird: It'd suptrermrliucikbfgyadiujb
07:59:56 <ehird> Trying to type "It's supremely confusing."
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08:00:04 <HackEgo> 31|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <oerjan> In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, ehird has taste"
08:00:13 <HackEgo> 4|<lament> i read paths as penis :(
08:00:17 <HackEgo> 14|<reddit user "othermatt"> So what you're saying is that I shouldn't lick my iPhone but instead I should rub it on my eyes first and then lick my eyeballs?
08:00:22 <HackEgo> 17|<GKennethR-L> :d <(I can lick my nose!)
08:00:28 <HackEgo> 74|<oklopol> GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your soda beer?
08:00:33 <ehird> It looks like it's licking its eyes
08:00:36 <ehird> And look at the previous one
08:00:41 <ehird> HACKEGO YOU ARE *FREAKING* ME OUT
08:00:42 <Rugxulo> itsj siuoptrimsweluy ciom,nfiuasimnfg
08:00:56 <HackEgo> 1|<Aftran> I've always wanted to kill someone. >.>
08:01:07 <ehird> #1. That's, like, a one in 75 chance.
08:01:15 <ehird> Correction. One in 90, exactly.
08:01:23 <oklopol> i just make a mistake every 3 letters
08:01:35 <ehird> FreeDOS is able to run Microsoft Windows 1.0 and 2.0 releases. Windows 3.x releases, which had support for i386 processors, can be run in 386 Enhanced Mode since FreeDOS kernel build 2037[21].
08:01:52 <Rugxulo> no, I don't think that's correct
08:02:01 <ehird> 2039 came out this August
08:02:01 <Rugxulo> 2037 had experimental changes, too many actually
08:02:17 <Rugxulo> but it's buggy and doesn't contain everything 2037 had (yet) although they started to try merging COUNTRY.SYS support
08:02:23 <Rugxulo> 2037 was never properly vetted
08:02:41 <Sgeo> Why am I still awake?
08:02:54 <Rugxulo> 2037 "WinKern" exists but I never tested it, and from what I heard, it only worked well in /S 286 mode (any DOS shells crashed)
08:03:24 <Sgeo> Also, I probably won't do it, but I'm thinking of making an LSL interpreter in LSL
08:03:33 <Rugxulo> 2039 had regressions in both Breadbox Ensemble and finddisk (and maybe other things)
08:03:48 * Rugxulo wants to maybe write an ETA interpreter in x86 asm
08:03:49 <Sgeo> (Or at least a something-similar-to-LSL interpreter... LSL doesn't have multidimensional lists...)
08:04:23 <Rugxulo> I guess I'm part of the "I don't really like Win 3.1 anyways"
08:04:40 <ehird> Sgeo: You can only do multidimensional lists if the language has support for them?
08:04:45 <ehird> Are you *sure* you're a programmer?
08:05:29 <Rugxulo> there are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those that don't
08:05:54 <Sgeo> ehird, assuming I'm not fixing the size, and I don't want to go through the list moving everything around just to increase the size
08:06:27 <ehird> Rugxulo: That was funny in 1980.
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08:16:33 * Rugxulo wonders why it got so quiet
08:17:25 <Sgeo> I suppose I could um... actually, understanding memory management might help me
08:17:47 <Sgeo> Well, good night all
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08:30:09 <ehird> Rugxulo: nothing to say
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09:04:37 <fizzie> Based on the country this box was sent from, there's either the power supply for that web server laptop, or a letter-bomb from ehird.
09:05:20 <fizzie> If there's a mention in the news about an explosion, at least you know who to blame.
09:06:29 <fizzie> Well, it looks like a power supply to me. It could still be a bomb in disguise; I guess I won't know until I get home and plug it in.
09:07:11 <ehird> Who says it can't be both? Cough. Um, I mean, no comment.
09:07:53 <fizzie> If it's going to explode, actually working as a power supply seems, I don't know, a bit superfluous.
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09:34:18 <ehird> fizzie: It will explode ... in some years, when it dies.
09:34:27 <ehird> It will be a very small explosion.
09:36:49 <ehird> fizzie: Sorry, did I say something?
09:36:51 <ehird> I mean no comment.
09:43:22 <fizzie> Oh, and speaking of broken things, the monitor arrived back today, with no real explanations what was wrong with it. The parts list in the receipt says something like "UF3300 10V", 2 pieces; and the job-done field says "No power. Repaired."
09:44:09 <fizzie> Hmm, or maybe it was 3300UF 10V, in which case it could mean a 3300 µF capacitor.
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12:05:21 <Warrigal> Grr, everybody I want to talk to is absent.
12:06:17 <Warrigal> Sgeo: I would be extremely content if you were to do that. oerjan: are you saying the order of affixes in Greek-derived words like "philosophy" is language-dependent?
12:06:54 <Warrigal> Hmm, no, oerjan's not saying that.
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12:37:52 <ehird> Concise report of using Ubuntu for quite a few days full-time and not really thinking about OS X, then using OS X for a day or two: GNOME has a high level of crafted usability. But OS X has an intangible comfiness to it. Sorry, it looks like I'm stuck with proprietary software for another day.
12:39:04 <ehird> Also, someone really needs to write an iTunes replacement that's actually Mac-like.
12:47:55 <ehird> Ooh, Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Now I can ignore all future results for it.
12:48:07 <ehird> Thank you for taking that mental load off me, committee!
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13:15:25 <oklopol> so you think they made such a great decision further awardings will not have been earned, in comparison
13:16:05 <oklopol> i want to talk to everyone that is absent
13:16:42 <ehird> oklopol: no, more like Obama is a totally bullshit choice
13:17:13 <ehird> you may have known i meant that and are joking, but you never know
13:19:08 <oklopol> i always thought of the piece thing as a bullshit award anyway
13:19:39 <ehird> it is a bit silly to give out an award i guess
13:19:51 <ehird> but at least the awardees actually fit the description beforehand
13:20:13 <oklopol> what had obama supposedly done to deserve it?
13:21:03 <oklopol> i mean i have no idea what's happened after his election, anywhere in the world, except for the few random pieces of news that have managed to penetrate my closed eyelids
13:21:29 <ehird> i guess he's said he's going to close guantanamo bay!
13:21:45 <ehird> also continued all those, you know, wars, and actually have the US kill more people than before
13:23:11 <oklopol> well you can't stop a war before you've properly won
13:23:44 <ehird> incidentally, OS fight! you have a word in a document. what are the quickest steps to looking it up on wikipedia
13:24:26 <ehird> OS X: hover over it. ⌃⌘D. click "More…". click Wikipedia.
13:25:15 <ehird> i'm thinkin' pretty much give up now here
13:25:16 <oklopol> what i do is i double-click, copy, go to google, and write "word wikipedia i am an cool wikipedia"
13:25:29 <ehird> yah, those aren't complete results
13:25:33 <oklopol> then usually i get crappy results and remove whatever random i added
13:25:35 <ehird> here's the actual steps for those:
13:26:11 <ehird> double click it. right click. click "Copy". control-t. google.com. ctrl-v. type " wikipedia". enter. click the first relevant link.
13:26:19 <ehird> bonus: the last step involves a large cognitive load!
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13:27:05 <oklopol> also i usually have IE closed because otherwise i have a hard time opening other programs
13:27:10 <Deewiant> double-click, control-c, (N*) alt-tab, control-t, type "w ", control-v, enter.
13:27:14 <oklopol> you see vista can handle about 8 windows
13:27:26 <oklopol> after that opening them fails
13:27:29 <oklopol> and you have to close a few
13:27:49 <Deewiant> N depends on the windows open and their alt-tab order.
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13:28:06 <ehird> OS X's is cooler because it displays in the pretty Dictionary interface.
13:28:36 <ehird> http://imgur.com/Jc6wK.png
13:28:55 <ehird> (which also marks the first OS vendor to officially endorse Wikipedia, I'm pretty sure)
13:28:57 <ehird> oklopol: your mom is hideous
13:29:02 <ehird> but i don't complain about it on IRC
13:29:06 <ehird> also, by hideous you mean lovely.
13:29:25 <ehird> I MAY HAVE ENABLED YOUR MONOSPACE FETISH BUT I CANNOT SUPPORT IT
13:29:30 <oklopol> my internet connection is so slow i suck as an ircer if i actually wait for pages to load before commenting
13:30:06 <oklopol> well you can't just wait and see where the opponent hits the ball
13:30:12 <oklopol> you have to read his movements
13:30:16 <ehird> the wikipedia tab is surprisingly capable, handles infoboxes and everything just fine
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13:30:25 <ehird> and opens image pages and stuff in a browser
13:30:31 <ehird> http://imgur.com/Jc6wK.png
13:30:52 <ehird> from the OS-included-and-integrated Dictionary.app
13:31:16 <ais523> doesn't seem to be much in common between the definitions
13:31:23 <ais523> additionally, it seems to get its info from Wikipedia
13:31:25 <ais523> but I knew that already
13:31:26 <ehird> ais523: look at the tab bar or title bar
13:31:47 <ehird> [13:23] ehird: incidentally, OS fight! you have a word in a document. what are the quickest steps to looking it up on wikipedia
13:31:47 <ehird> [13:24] ehird: OS X: hover over it. ⌃⌘D. click "More…". click Wikipedia.
13:31:49 <ehird> is what brought it up
13:31:52 <ais523> gah, Windows 7 has started booting to a blank screen again
13:32:08 <ais523> also, Ubuntu doesn't do anything like that by default
13:32:10 <Deewiant> ehird: You're forgetting "move your hand to the mouse", btw.
13:32:10 <ehird> (⌃⌘D pops up a little definition below the word, and More… starts Dictionary on it; Wikipedia switches the tab)
13:32:26 <ais523> although I could almost certainly write a compiz script to do it
13:32:30 <ehird> Deewiant: That's implied in any mouse action. Besides, plug in a ThinkPad USB keyboard and use the TrackPoint. :P
13:32:54 <ehird> Who cares with a non-numpadded keyboard or a notebook, anyway? The latency is low there; not ideal, but low.
13:33:07 <ehird> Anyway, OS X uses the mouse so much that switching to it becomes a highly optimised act. :P
13:33:10 <Deewiant> No, because those keyboards suck in most if not every other way :-P
13:33:38 <ehird> Deewiant: Buy a Unicomp with a nub mouse
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13:33:47 <ehird> Buckling spring sucks, but is acceptable for latency pedants!
13:33:49 <Deewiant> No, because those keyboards suck in many other ways :-P
13:33:55 <ehird> fizzie: you pop up a console window now?
13:34:01 <Deewiant> And their nub reportedly sucks too
13:34:13 <ehird> Deewiant: I'm pretty sure I'm the only person allowed to like mechanical keyswitches but not buckling springs.
13:34:16 <fizzie> ehird: My home-router/irc-bouncer stopped responding.
13:34:33 <ehird> the joke ------------>
13:34:36 <Deewiant> ehird: That's not what I was referring to.
13:35:03 <ehird> Deewiant: How do they suck in other ways? Also, it is keeping guard of the happiness.
13:35:13 <ehird> In case anyone tries to steal it.
13:35:32 <Deewiant> Suboptimal key layout, numpadness, groove on caps lock
13:35:42 <oklopol> fizzie: on the plus side, you're quite close to finding happiness
13:35:46 <Deewiant> Possibly something else, that's just off the top of my head :-P
13:35:46 <ehird> US layout is so optimal, bitch; granted; granted.
13:35:52 <ehird> Why do they put grooves on caps locks, btw?
13:35:55 <fizzie> oklopol: Yes, I just need to look up.
13:36:06 <ehird> fizzie: THE BUNNY WILL GET YOU
13:36:11 <Deewiant> To prevent people from pressing it accidentally when they press 'a'
13:36:52 <ehird> GAIN, DEEWIANT, I DON'T SEE WHY THAT'S A PROBLEM
13:38:49 <ehird> i wanted to support unicomp but all their keyboards are suboptimal
13:39:09 <ehird> it seems that nobody but filco realises that ergonomics does not have to imply a blatant disregard for economy of space
13:39:18 <Deewiant> All keyboards are suboptimal though
13:40:29 <oklopol> i've heard they're good once you learn to use them, but everyone i know who has one only uses it as a last resort, and sucks at it
13:40:42 <ehird> Nub mice are mostly utter crap.
13:40:49 <ehird> Exceptions: Uhh. ThinkPads.
13:41:32 <ehird> oklopol: But really, nub mice themselves are slower than touchpads, which are slower than regular mice. But when combined with typing, they are fast.
13:41:33 <oklopol> i want to control my comp by 10 nubs, one for each finger
13:41:49 <ehird> You're no longer either typing or mousing, both become integrated, and mouse-based interfaces become even more awesome.
13:42:02 <ehird> Deewiant: Me too, but statistics show they're faster.
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13:42:20 <ehird> The only touchpad I have seen that does not repulse me is the one in the new MacBook Pro.
13:42:25 <Deewiant> Statistics use normal people :-P
13:42:37 <ehird> It's huge, glass-covered, the whole thing's a button and it's multi-touch. Wonderful.
13:42:51 <fizzie> 10 nub mice combined with 10 separate (differently-coloured) cursors. Now *that's* efficiency!
13:43:00 <ehird> As a pointing device, possibly superior to regular mice. And it has a lower latency time than real mice.
13:43:10 <ehird> oklopol: whut's the :DDDDDDDDDDDDDs
13:43:21 <oklopol> ehird: fizzie's awesome idea
13:43:28 <ehird> why differently coloured
13:43:34 <ehird> you know which way you're pushing them.
13:43:41 <ehird> you know which way you're pushing them.
13:43:49 <ehird> BE A REAL FUCKING MAN
13:43:55 <oklopol> so that you can superimpose 10 guis
13:43:59 <ehird> in fact all pointers should just be one pixel
13:44:04 <ehird> and that pixel is the pixel that is activated
13:44:24 <ehird> it should be an inverted pixel, because it's important to know what colour is behind the pointer
13:44:35 <ehird> also because any given colour would be arbitrary
13:44:37 <Deewiant> Except that seeing one pixel out of 2.3 million is damn hard
13:44:58 <ehird> It's for real men.
13:45:21 <Deewiant> Real men don't need a pointer at all, they remember where they left it
13:45:42 <ehird> Compelling argument
13:45:52 <ehird> Maybe we can compromise with a half-pixel-squared pointer.
13:46:03 <ehird> Well, okay, two-thirds-pixel-squared.
13:46:16 <ehird> (Think: subpixels.)
13:46:44 <ehird> Well, not squared I guess.
13:46:44 <ehird> Or the other way around, whatever
13:47:52 <ehird> Anyway, Filco flaws less irrelevant than nublessness: Keys are still staggered in that age-old, fucking-stupid arrangement.
13:48:37 <ehird> The second column (after main, before numpad) is arranged in an arbitrary fashion and has a lot of unused space.
13:48:45 <ehird> THAT FUCKING VISTA BUMP AAAAAAAAAAARGH
13:48:53 <oklopol> good to know someone else finds that complain worthy too
13:49:11 <ehird> Useless menu key (would be non-retarded as a modifier key if it was on the left side too)
13:49:12 <ehird> And probably more I could mention if I actually had one
13:49:54 <ehird> oklopol: Get a Kinesis Advantage. They even advertise their vertical layout :P http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/benefits.htm
13:49:58 <ehird> Of course, a lot else changes too...
13:51:01 <oklopol> (reversed order of those to a less standard one)
13:51:21 <ehird> the kinesis is 5x4 (regular dimension format :P)
13:51:26 <ehird> times two, obviously
13:51:27 <ehird> plus some extra shit
13:51:40 <ehird> also, they use Cherry brown switches
13:51:47 <oklopol> i've been playing with matrices a lot this week
13:51:54 <ehird> so the Advantage classes as a Real Fucking Keyboard with the caveat that it does not go CLICK
13:52:01 <ehird> so it's only a lower-denizen Real Fucking Keyboard
13:52:52 <oklopol> anyway need to do a thing, i'm not gonna tell you what, but it has to do with matrices
13:53:00 <ehird> sexually abuse them?
13:53:18 <oklopol> yeah i'm gonna punish their eigenvalues
13:53:40 <ehird> anyway I'd love to switch to a Kinesis Advantage with Dvorak, but I'm such a lazy bastard that a Filco Majestouch should do for now
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14:12:05 <ehird> I hereby decree a new law of the School of Traditional Multi-Pass Compilation is Fucking Stupid for Performance:
14:12:43 <ehird> If you can't compile (KDE|X11) within 15 minutes on a modern dual-core computer (running in parallel), with a regular 7200rpm desktop disk, you suck.
14:13:10 <ehird> note: all C[++] compilers in the world now suck
14:23:26 <ehird> Deewiant: Theoretically, that Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Click Otaku could be obtained directly from Asia, right?
14:23:29 <ehird> Since elitekeyboards just import.
14:24:06 <Deewiant> If you make an order for 1000 units, probably :-P
14:24:06 <ehird> (Huh, apparently some Majestouches are available in Bluetooth. Now that'd be fun.)
14:24:18 <ehird> But the FILCO branding is so... consumer!
14:25:40 <ehird> "SteelSeries 7G redefines “anti-ghosting" by supporting as many simultaneous key presses as there are keys on the keyboard."
14:25:40 <ehird> — http://www.steelseries.com/us/products/keyboards/7g/information
14:25:40 <ehird> Well, that answers my question.
14:27:35 <ehird> I can see why linear switches are useful for gaming; now the Blacks are justified to me.
14:27:42 <ehird> <ehird> […]now the [b]lacks are justified to me.
14:28:26 <fizzie> I was going to say "isn't that what gaming keyboards always say in their advertisement blurbs?", but apparently it even isn't; a randomly picked Razer keyboard says it supports "up to an unprecedented 10 buttons at one go without the "ghosting" effect (For a conventional keyboard, signal failure occurs when three to four keys are pressed simultaneously)"
14:28:33 <fizzie> 10 doesn't sound so very impressive to me.
14:28:55 <ehird> They usually support N-key rollover, which isn't "you can press every key on the board at once".
14:29:34 <fizzie> A computer keyboard circuit that allows any number of keys to be pressed in succession without having to lift a finger from any of the previous keys."
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14:30:07 <ehird> I've forgotten the difference, but I'm sure there is one. Oi Deewiant.
14:30:59 <Deewiant> The 'N' is often a specific number but if it's just 'N' it's that, isn't it?
14:31:22 <fizzie> Deewiant: Well, it seems that they quite freely use the term "N-key rollover" even when their N is actually a smallish integer.
14:31:24 <ehird> Every single key? I mean all of them.
14:31:29 <ehird> Not just alphanumeric.
14:31:32 <ehird> At the same time, all at once.
14:31:35 <ehird> NOT one after another.
14:31:35 <fizzie> That's what the definition says.
14:31:38 <ehird> Which I'd guess is easier.
14:31:42 <ehird> And is what the definition says.
14:32:36 <fizzie> "any number of keys without having to lift a finger from any of the previous keys"; that means you can have all the K-1 keys of the keyboard pressed, and it still will correctly detect the last key.
14:33:00 <ehird> That doesn't imply using a metal plate to smash every single key at once.
14:36:09 <fizzie> They're still going to actually connect in some particular order. But yes, I guess it's possible that it could fail to detect multiple keys getting pressed during some (very) short scanning interval. Not sure that's very likely though.
14:40:07 <fizzie> If you're going to bother with making each key independently scannable, one would hope you'd spare the tiny bit of logic needed to handle an arbitrary number of them changing state at the same time. But I'm no keyboard manufacturer.
14:41:40 <ehird> every key should have a separate controller
14:44:24 <fizzie> Yes. A 105-USB-cable trunk would be a sight to behold.
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14:46:20 <ehird> what if i want to press more than 6 keys at once on my one key
14:47:20 <ehird> I like ADB because its diagram is so simple!
14:47:31 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/eb/ADB_Icon.svg
14:47:38 <ehird> Can't get more trivial than that
14:48:38 <ehird> Admittedly the S-Video inserter-cables are rather fragile.
14:49:19 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Apple_ADB_Keyboard.jpg
14:49:36 <ehird> Hey Caps-Lock-becomes-Control people! Dislike Apple? YOU MUST COMPROMISE
14:49:42 <fizzie> I was just thinking that in a regular computer, you're more likely to find 105 USB ports than 105 ADB ports. Though maybe the probabilities are marginal enough in both cases.
14:49:51 <ehird> (That ~` key is in a truly ridiculous place.)
14:50:21 <ehird> (And what is with that reset key? And the caps lock, for that matter? And the |\ key?)
14:50:23 <ehird> (FURTHERMORE, what is the deal with airline food?
14:51:12 <fizzie> At least the cursor key layout is more sensible than, say, in a C64.
14:51:34 <ehird> "Anonymous Apple ADB Keyboard: it's saner than the C64."
14:51:47 <ehird> Apple's standards sure have improved over the years. :P
14:52:44 <ehird> "The Apple Lisa: Sometimes less painful than putting a hedgehog corpse filled with tapeworms and boiliilng water up your arsehole!"
14:53:17 <ehird> "Apple I: Does not always melt you into a vat of pure agony!"
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14:54:27 <fizzie> I like the power button key, though; it was used (with modifiers) for debuggery sort of tasks. (In models without the programmer's switch.)
14:55:03 <fizzie> Wasn't there some sort of "shift-power" shortcut to show active elements in a hypercard stack, or do I just misremember?
14:55:57 <ehird> Who knows? What I DO know is that the Apple IIc had a switch to switch from QWERTY to Dvorak and back again!
14:56:14 <ehird> I find it so awesome that that'd be an easily-accessible switch on mass-market consumer hardware.
15:04:32 <AnMaster> ⤳ U+2933 WAVE ARROW POINTING DIRECTLY RIGHT
15:04:39 <AnMaster> I wonder why they pointed out "directly" there
15:05:02 <ais523> maybe there's a WAVE ARROW POINTING APPROXIMATELY IGHT
15:05:54 <ais523> incidentally, I had a go at writing a Feather interpreter
15:06:02 <ais523> the one I have atm doesn't work, but I think I know what's wrong
15:06:54 <ais523> the issue is that causality loops are all very well in Feather, but tend not to work in Scheme
15:07:27 <AnMaster> ais523, know how to fix it though?
15:07:46 <AnMaster> ais523, also, why scheme? Supposedly any TC language would work
15:07:49 <ais523> the issue is with the first generation of bootstrapping, if I make the change I think
15:07:52 <ais523> and because scheme has call/cc
15:07:57 <ais523> and first-class functions
15:08:14 <AnMaster> ais523, you can in theory implement that in, say, C too. Would be quite a bit more work though
15:08:15 <ehird> ais523: wild speculation - the only way to run Feather programs acceptably will be via a custom-written C vm, because using retroactivity blows up supermegaexponentially when using scheme
15:08:23 <ehird> (i.e., because you have to fudge it with call/cc)
15:08:25 <ais523> ehird: I'm almost certain that'll be the case
15:08:46 <ehird> I'll be disappointed if it isn't :P
15:08:50 <ais523> but having something working at all will be good to be able to prove that the language will work
15:09:11 <ais523> I have crazy ideas of optimising Feather interps which involve using diff-based call/cc
15:09:19 <ais523> as in, it works out what would change in the program, rather than rerunning
15:09:25 <ehird> sweet, Dictionary's Wikipedia support can search
15:09:36 <ehird> as opposed to just view a named page
15:09:58 <AnMaster> ais523, can't you bootstrap in multiple steps, each one slightly more advanced than the further? And then more or less hide the lower layers at some point.
15:10:12 <ehird> "Can't you just abstract?"
15:10:15 <ais523> AnMaster: that's what I am doing
15:10:15 <ehird> what a useless question...
15:10:24 <ehird> "Why no, in fact I cannot abstract at all."
15:10:27 <ais523> in fact, I now have something like three stages of Feather interpretation
15:10:36 <AnMaster> <ehird> sweet, Dictionary's Wikipedia support can search <-- what is wrong with just using wikipedia straight away?
15:10:51 <ais523> a Feather seed (what I'm writing, it is something that doesn't obey all the rules of Feather, but /can/ be retroactively modified so it does)
15:11:02 <ais523> a Feather kernel (something that implements a subset of Feather sufficient to bootstrap to the whole thing)
15:11:03 <fizzie> AnMaster: There is a LEFTWARDS WAVE ARROW; I guess they wanted to be more specific.
15:11:11 <ais523> and a Feather interpreter (which implements the whole thing)
15:11:24 <AnMaster> oh btw I have here a python module using tkinter that gives strange errors under linux but works flawlessly under windows. No it doesn't use any platform specific features as far as I can tell. No I didn't write it.
15:11:52 <AnMaster> one of the strange errors: "RuntimeError: Calling Tcl from different appartment" [sic]
15:12:00 <fizzie> Especially since the leftwards wave arrow, ↜, points into a bit upwardish direction; there's an obvious market niche for a straight-left wave-arrow.
15:12:33 <ehird> AnMaster: 1. Integration with the Dictionary/Thesaurus/Apple terminology — for instance, if you look up a word in "All", it'll have multiple entries inlined, including the Wikipedia one. 2. Native OS X interface: cleaner, more minimal, and with a more dictionary-like font. I wouldn't use it to read [[Barack Obama]], but for looking up terminology it's wonderful. 3. Bonus reason: ⌃⌘D while hovering over the word pops up the little inline definition. From
15:12:33 <ehird> it's Two Clicks to Wikipedia['s Article](TM): click "More…", click "Wikipedia".
15:12:47 <AnMaster> ehird, oh you are back on OS X? How comes?
15:13:06 <ehird> I needed to reboot into OS X to do something and I'm both too lazy to reboot and perfectly happy.
15:13:07 <fizzie> AnMaster: 219C, 219D; the basic "Arrows" block.
15:13:26 <fizzie> ehird: How did you manage to avoid the BUNNY?!
15:13:29 <ehird> AnMaster: Dictionary actually comes with OS X, so it's pretty cool seeing "All Dictionary Thesaurus Apple Wikipedia".
15:13:42 <ehird> fizzie: I DON'T KNOW MAN
15:13:51 <oklopol> AnMaster: an insanely funny inside joke
15:14:00 <ehird> Super-duper-hilarious.
15:14:33 <ehird> Mmmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaaaaybe.
15:15:05 <ehird> It's not an inside joke if AnMaster knows.
15:15:36 <AnMaster> ehird, sure, but then I'm inside too. But, for example, lots of people not in this channel are outside it
15:15:51 <ehird> Yes, but you ruin humour, you see.
15:16:00 <ehird> The "inside"' part isn't lost; the "joke" part is.
15:16:33 <ehird> Aaaaand this is why I wish I'd never replied to fizzie
15:16:40 <AnMaster> it is impossible to destroy something as flawless as a "Super-duper-hilarious" joke.
15:17:02 <ehird> Which just means that you'll justify you massacre by pointing out that, in your opinion, it was not so hilarious.
15:18:29 <AnMaster> ehird, no I won't discuss it at all
15:18:59 * ehird upgrades a bunch of stuff, braces for restart.
15:19:56 <ehird> Additionally! It is annoying how there is no real alternative to iTunes.
15:21:16 <ehird> Okay, time to install + restart.
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15:26:10 <AnMaster> of course you wouldn't want that
15:26:23 <AnMaster> so what about rythmbox? Does it exist for OS X?
15:26:38 <oklopol> at least on vista, with my version, you can't start two instances of vlc at the same time
15:26:44 <oklopol> that alone makes it a crappy program
15:26:52 <AnMaster> oklopol, um... works for for me on linux
15:27:07 <AnMaster> oklopol, I think it is a setting
15:27:45 <oklopol> maybe. unfortunately they chose the wrong default, making the program crappy!
15:28:05 <AnMaster> oklopol, I just checked on a blank user account
15:28:35 <oklopol> you and your superior oses
15:28:54 <AnMaster> oklopol, it would be trivial to switch you know :P
15:29:08 <oklopol> i'm probably going to have to switch to linux to get the default changed
15:30:23 <oklopol> :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
15:30:35 -!- ehird has joined.
15:30:45 <AnMaster> ehird, also what about rythmbox on OS X?
15:31:27 <ehird> To start with, GTK.
15:31:46 <AnMaster> ehird, and you can't live with mixed toolkits?
15:31:46 <ehird> To second with, yeah I already said GTK, forget that.
15:31:52 <ais523> I use rhythmbox to play background music, although it's unnecessarily complicated for what I want
15:32:12 <ehird> AnMaster: So... by "What about Rhythmbox?" your point is "CAN RHYTHMBOX EXECUTE ON OS X COMPUTERS?"
15:32:19 <ais523> (and I never really got Amarok to work, not to mention it does a different job well from the job I want it to do)
15:32:21 <ehird> Well gee Einstein, I'm kinda thinking every fucking Unix player ever can.
15:32:27 <ehird> Wow, that makes them all Mac alternatives to iTunes!
15:32:43 <ehird> You're a genius and a master of human-computer interaction design, how consistency affects it, and oh so many things.
15:32:56 <ais523> actually, I think Rhythmbox does have built-in music-purchasing ability (linking to a couple of websites)
15:33:04 <ais523> but ofc that doesn't make it an iTunes equivalent
15:33:17 <ehird> Meanwhile, no, Rhythmbox is not an alternative to iTunes *on the Mac* because iTunes has, among its mandatory features, being Mac-like. At least it used to be, now not so much, thus the need for an alternative.
15:33:23 <AnMaster> just say that I have no problems with mixing athena widgets, gtk widgets and QT widgets all one screen at once
15:33:39 <Deewiant> ehird: So what's wrong with iTunes?
15:33:50 <ehird> Can you shut the fuck up and stop pretending you know what you talk about? Congratulations, you can run more than one toolkit on the same screen, get the fuck off your godadmn high horse.
15:34:13 <AnMaster> ehird, huh? what have I said to made you so annoyed
15:34:20 <ehird> Deewiant: As of 9 (and in previous versions too, although less so), massive UI inconsistency with the rest of the OS.
15:34:39 * ais523 wonders why there isn't yet some program to convert UI behaviour from one toolkit to another
15:34:41 <ehird> Plus, bloatedness, slowness, and general pushiing-of-iTunes-Store-in-your-faceness.
15:34:48 <Deewiant> ehird: I thought you just said it's Mac-like? :-P
15:34:57 <ehird> "being Mac-like. At least it used to be, now not so much, thus the need for an alternative."
15:35:09 <ehird> I wish people's parsing engines would go beyond single sentences.
15:35:15 <ais523> AnMaster: like qtgtkstyle or whatever it's called
15:35:26 <oklopol> yeah if only everyone wasn't such a fucking retard
15:35:28 <AnMaster> ais523, well those only work semi-okish at best
15:35:28 <ais523> but converting interface conventions too
15:35:46 <ais523> you'd need strong AI to make it perfect, but you could probably do reasonably well just using heuristics
15:35:52 <Deewiant> ehird: Point was that you say it's a mandatory feature and yet you still evidently use it
15:36:00 <ehird> QGtkStyle changes widgets, that's it.
15:36:10 <ehird> Deewiant: Thus why I want an alternative? Gaasp.
15:36:13 <AnMaster> ais523, like rearanging what menu you find "settings/preferences" in?
15:36:24 <ehird> i.e., I just upgraded to iTunes 9 and am officially Sick Of This Shit.
15:36:41 <ehird> Quick Google later, alternative OS X players scene is identical to in 2005.
15:36:42 <Deewiant> I just think it's weird to call something a "mandatory feature" and use something that does not provide it
15:36:48 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, and changing the order of dialog box options between GTK and Qt (which can be done algorithmically, I think by swapping the two rightmost)
15:36:51 <Deewiant> But if you just upgraded, that makes sense.
15:36:53 <ehird> I'd rather not use it is the whole point.
15:36:57 <AnMaster> ehird, suggestions 1) find one 2) write your own 3) at least stop complaining
15:37:35 <ehird> AnMaster: 1) Impossible; doesn't exist. 2) Don't have the massive devotion of time. 3) Yeah, and why isn't Ebert making a movie better than Transformers 2 instead of whining all the time?
15:37:59 <ais523> complaining can be useful
15:38:02 <ehird> You'd think that perhaps proficiency in creation of a type of object is not required to criticise instances of that type or something!
15:38:03 <ais523> it lets developers know what users want
15:38:19 <ehird> ais523: Somehow I doubt Applel would listen to anything I say :P
15:38:56 <ehird> Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell let's just end this conversation on that note AND ANYWAY
15:39:00 <ehird> So what is the haps today my folks
15:39:17 <oklopol> i should go, but i'm not going
15:39:17 <AnMaster> ehird, oh and I haven't seen the movie you mentioned.
15:39:48 <AnMaster> ais523, well sure, but then this is the wrong place. Afaik there is no one working at apple in here...
15:39:50 <ehird> It has recently (a few seconds ago) come to my attention that there are situations for which one "whoosh" is simply not enough, no matter how many {o}s are added.
15:40:08 <ehird> Lazyweb: Bludgeoning whoosh. do it now.
15:40:19 <ais523> ehird: it's not quite a whoosh; it's something related but marginally differnet
15:40:32 <ais523> because it's not humour involved, but sarcasm
15:41:00 <ehird> Well, point 1 was not knowing who Ebert was, point 2 was latching onto Transformers 2 as an incredibly important part of my sarcasm-based argument
15:41:21 <ehird> Point 3 was then mentioning him haven't seeing Transformers 2 as if that's, you know, something other than the only course of action that leaves you sane at the end
15:41:26 <AnMaster> ehird, did I say it was important
15:41:40 <ehird> Hey, you forgot to capitalise those two lines, and you forgot the full stops at the end.
15:41:44 <ehird> What do you mean that's not important.
15:41:51 <ehird> Did I say it was important?
15:41:59 <ais523> IRC has a different grammar to ordinary speech
15:42:25 <ehird> ais523: Congrats, you just did the same thing as AnMaster.
15:42:30 <ehird> I think I have a headache.
15:42:30 <ais523> strangely, on IRC I find that I use the following algorithm to determine grammar: calculate a correct English sentence; lowercase the first letter unless it's part of a proper noun; remove the final full stop
15:42:46 <ais523> also, I tend to use sentence fragments more than I would in formal speech
15:42:55 <AnMaster> ais523, sounds similar to what I do then.
15:43:11 <ais523> oh, I don't remove the final full stop if there isn't one
15:43:22 <ais523> and sometimes replace final ? with /, although that's just a really common typo for me
15:43:32 <AnMaster> ais523, due to keyboard layout?
15:43:40 <oklopol> ais523: what if you have two sentences in one line? Do you do like this?
15:43:44 <ais523> AnMaster: ? and / are on the same key
15:43:50 <ehird> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////////////////////////////////////////////\//////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////\\\\\\\/////////////\\\\\//////\\\//////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\///////\\\\\\///////////\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\////////
15:43:51 <ehird> \\\\/////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\//////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\/////////////\////////////////////////\////////////////////////\\\\\\////////////
15:43:55 <ais523> oklopol: this line has two sentences. I write it like thsi
15:44:00 <oklopol> \\\\\\\\\\\//////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
15:44:04 <oklopol> ais523: I was a bad choice
15:44:12 <ehird> haha i was just thinking that
15:44:14 <ais523> but it would be a capital letter there
15:44:33 <ais523> it seems my IRC modifications only affect the start and end of a line...
15:45:00 <oklopol> also now i *really* have to leave
15:45:04 <ais523> I noticed it was weird the first time I caught myself doing it
15:45:13 <AnMaster> ooh lets talk about something interesting if oklopol is leaving
15:46:03 <ais523> AnMaster: in this channel/
15:46:09 <ehird> Who is ooh, and why are they allowing us to do something grammatically incorrect?
15:46:26 <ehird> In fact it might not even be us doing the thing; it is not specified.
15:46:27 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, I mentioned that before
15:46:31 <ais523> it's a very common typo for me
15:46:36 <ais523> missing the shift when I type / to get a ?
15:46:48 <AnMaster> ais523, yes but I couldn't resist the slightly complex sed expression
15:46:48 <ais523> normally I backspace to the / and correct it
15:46:58 <ais523> but on IRC, I've already typed the newline before I notice the error
15:47:02 <oklopol> AnMaster: you wouldn't dare
15:47:19 <ehird> Don't worrry, AnMaster is incapable of talking about anything interesting. :P
15:47:35 <AnMaster> oklopol, I'm to kind to actually do it.
15:47:41 <oklopol> well i was going to continue with 'and by dare i of course mean "be able to"', but thought it was more mean than it was funny
15:47:47 <ehird> ais523: You correct that but not "ooh lets"?
15:48:03 <oklopol> ehird: you made a worse error a few minutes ago
15:48:11 <ehird> oklopol: yes, but I don't care
15:48:11 <ais523> I suppose, missing punctuation annoys me less than missing letters
15:48:22 <oklopol> "ehird: Point 3 was then mentioning him haven't seeing Transformers 2..."
15:48:22 <AnMaster> <ehird> ais523: You correct that but not "ooh lets"? <-- what is wrong with that
15:48:29 <ais523> AnMaster: should be "let's"
15:48:36 <oklopol> should it be "not having", or am i misparsing
15:48:37 <ehird> oklopol: should have been "having not seen"
15:49:02 <ehird> You'd think you'd have learned the basic principles of the English langauge by now...
15:49:16 <AnMaster> ehird, it is a bit hard to figure out what exactly the ' swallows
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15:49:27 <AnMaster> is there any consistent rule for it?
15:49:43 <oklopol> AnMaster: "let's" = "let us"
15:49:45 <ehird> augur omits all punctuation.
15:49:51 <ehird> AnMaster: "lets" is clearly derived from let.
15:49:54 <AnMaster> oklopol, sure, but "it's" = "it us"? then?
15:49:59 <ehird> And it clearly isn't a plural lets.
15:50:04 <oklopol> "lets" = 3rd person let, that never has a "'".
15:50:11 <ehird> Nor is it in a place where "lets" as in enables or allows would fit.
15:50:14 <ehird> Therefore, lets is not correct.
15:50:19 -!- ais523 has joined.
15:50:20 <ehird> What is a verbose alternative? Let us.
15:50:20 <AnMaster> <ehird> AnMaster: "lets" is clearly derived from let. <-- agreed. But "it's" and "let's" isn't consistent at all.
15:50:23 <oklopol> AnMaster: "its" & "it's" is an exception to the rule, as are most pronouns
15:50:23 <ehird> So clearly, the result is let's.
15:50:38 <ehird> isn't is singular.
15:50:42 <ehird> This is simple stuff.
15:50:46 <ehird> AnMaster: Anyway, ' doesn't stand for a constant string.
15:50:50 <ehird> It stands for [elided obvious shit].
15:51:07 <AnMaster> ehird, the obviousness can be discussed.
15:51:22 <ehird> Only if you have no grasp of English.
15:51:29 <ais523> "it's" isn't an exception, it means "it is"; "its" is an exception, though
15:51:29 <oklopol> it is always obvious, because there's just a small set of things you use it for.
15:51:37 <ehird> Should I try and speak Swedish and complain about all the inconsistencies?
15:51:46 <oklopol> ais523: yes, i meant "its" is the exception
15:51:50 <AnMaster> ehird, sure, some of them annoy me too
15:51:56 <ehird> Presumably you'd retort that it's easy once you know them, which applies to English too. This stuff isn't hard.
15:52:48 <ehird> FAIL! That guy can't type instantly! Therefore, I will use "fail" as an interjection, thus placing my estimated maturity roughly at the level of a 7-year-old.
15:52:52 <ehird> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\]]
15:53:31 <AnMaster> ehird, oops, tried to talk more on your own level, hoping the message would get through better then
15:54:02 <ais523> wow, I was just k-lined on slashnet
15:54:02 <ehird> You know, your excuses are almost believable enough to be distinguishable from 0 in a floating-point number.
15:54:07 <AnMaster> you can see if someone sent a message several seconds before. At least you seem to tell *me* that.. So claiming now that you can't is hypocrisy.
15:54:10 <ehird> ais523: presumably auutomatically
15:54:10 <ais523> my connection kept dropping
15:54:16 <ais523> and some automatic system thought I was trying to DOS it
15:54:33 <ais523> it let me back on after a minute, though
15:54:38 <ehird> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]}}}}}}"""""""""
15:54:55 <ehird> no, I think I just broke a key
15:54:58 <AnMaster> ais523, no, he is unusually nasty
15:55:04 <ehird> I swear I didn't do anything!
15:55:15 <ehird> this is what happens when you buy cheap keyboards
15:55:17 <AnMaster> ais523, he has been quite a bit nicer over the last week or two
15:55:21 <ehird> now when will http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87mcnpek be back in stock...
15:55:36 <AnMaster> so the "not running OS X" theory seems to hold up well
15:55:39 <ehird> AnMaster: Turns out that I'm a dick or not based on how much people (ok, I'll be honest, just one) are idiots.
15:55:55 <ehird> Oh wow, you still really believe that me using OS X somehow makes me more of a jerk.
15:55:55 <ais523> actually, I went and looked through keyboards available today, and decided that none of them really fit my requirements, which are quite different from ehird's
15:56:13 <AnMaster> ehird, causal observation points in that direction.
15:56:25 <ais523> (they are: works, doesn't collapse [OK, ehird probably has those two too], are white rather than black or are stupidly coloured, and don't have lots of extra random buttons for no reason)
15:56:36 <ehird> Correlation is not causation, you small-minded dimwit! Especially not with such a tiny sample size...
15:56:42 <AnMaster> <ehird> now when will http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87mcnpek be back in stock... <-- das keyboard ripoff?
15:56:54 <ehird> I *hate* people who equate post hoc with propter hoc.
15:57:15 <ehird> AnMaster: Das Keyboard was not the first and will not be the last. That model is identical to the non-Otaku version but comes with the blank key caps.
15:57:25 <ehird> Specifically: http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87mceb
15:57:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
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15:57:41 <ehird> Differences from the Das Keyboard: better keyswitches, no numberpad, smaller, ...
15:57:55 <ehird> Yay, I fixed the key. Popped right back on.
15:57:55 <AnMaster> ehird, better key switches? hm?
15:58:04 <ehird> AnMaster: Mechanical key switches. Clicky.
15:58:15 <ehird> Not membrane shit.
15:58:18 <AnMaster> "no numpad" and "smaller" seems to be disadvantages
15:58:28 <AnMaster> ehird, hm thought das keyboard was clicky?
15:58:34 <ais523> AnMaster: your hands are probably about twice as big as ehird's
15:58:40 <ehird> Yes, these are BETTER.
15:58:41 <ais523> from what I've heard in this channel
15:58:46 <ais523> so ehird would want a small keyboard, you'd want a big one
15:58:52 <ehird> AnMaster: The numpad is useless, takes up desk space and inhibits mouse/keyboard switching.
15:58:56 <ehird> AND the key sizes do not change.
15:58:59 <ehird> Smaller = less useless border around the keys.
15:59:08 <ehird> Which is unquestionably a good thing.
15:59:29 <ehird> Technically the switches aren't better, just the plate they're mouhnted to.
16:08:31 <AnMaster> <ehird> AnMaster: The numpad is useless, takes up desk space and inhibits mouse/keyboard switching. <-- no it isn't. Some old style 2D games for example
16:09:01 <AnMaster> as for switching? not very common operation unless you are image editing
16:09:27 <AnMaster> <ehird> Smaller = less useless border around the keys. <-- good idea. Mine has about 5 mm on the left and right side, acceptable to me
16:10:11 <AnMaster> ais523, as for you finding a keyboard. What sort of keyboard collapses?
16:10:19 <AnMaster> I mean, sounds like it would go on warranty
16:10:32 <AnMaster> ais523, and is a white keyboard really that hard to find?
16:10:33 <ais523> the B and Y keys didn't work on my very first computer
16:10:41 <ais523> although it was a BBC Model B that was obsolete when I got it
16:10:46 <ais523> and yes, white keyboards are really that hard to find
16:11:11 <ais523> in fact, they already knew it was broken
16:11:11 -!- ehird_ has joined.
16:11:16 <ais523> it cost £20 as a result
16:11:30 <ehird_> Oh, I missed a lot of text.
16:11:34 <ais523> but I just rebound a couple of the function keys to act as B and Y
16:11:37 <ehird_> 08:08:31 <AnMaster> <ehird> AnMaster: The numpad is useless, takes up desk space and inhibits mouse/keyboard switching. <-- no it isn't. Some old style 2D games for example
16:11:38 <ehird_> 08:09:01 <AnMaster> as for switching? not very common operation unless you are image editing
16:11:42 <ehird_> (1) Irrelevant, remap keys
16:11:58 <AnMaster> ehird_, 1 is relevant since most other keys are already in use
16:11:59 <ehird_> (2) No, mouse/keyboard switching is incredibly common, I don't care about your X11/KDE bubble
16:12:04 <AnMaster> thus you want those extra keys
16:12:11 <AnMaster> since otherwise you couldn't fit it inside
16:12:29 <ehird_> ais523: what's wrong with black, anyway?
16:12:33 <AnMaster> ehird_, ask ais if he switches a lot
16:12:59 <ehird_> AnMaster: Funnily enough, I don't give a fuck about what ais does, except I never state it in such strong terms because he never argues against my product decisions withh his usage anecdotes.
16:13:08 <ehird_> *with, goddamn chattering.
16:13:18 <ehird_> I imagine he uses the mouse more than you.
16:13:41 <ehird_> ais523: I don't care, feel free to stay out of this retarded pettiness.
16:13:59 <AnMaster> actually I wonder if I can switch desktops in synergy with a keycombo... would be useful
16:14:12 <AnMaster> because that has increased the switching for me recently
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16:17:23 <ais523_> ehird_: I don't care that you don't care what I do
16:17:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:17:27 <ais523_> because you have no reason to, relaly
16:17:29 <ehird_> I don't care that you don't etc.
16:17:29 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
16:17:42 <ais523> I don't insist that the way I do things are the best for you
16:17:43 <ehird_> ais523: I meant that AnMaster was questioning you, and you could feel free not ot bother because I don't care
16:17:47 <ais523> in fact, I suspect they usually aren't
16:18:09 <AnMaster> <ais523> I don't insist that the way I do things are the best for you <-- nor do I.
16:18:20 <ehird_> <AnMaster> But ehird does with his FASCIST GNOME
16:18:39 <ais523> this really isn't the time for a Gnome/KDE flamewar
16:18:47 <AnMaster> ehird_, I guess that is supposed to be some sort of joke
16:19:12 <ehird_> ais523: Can we have something fun, like a VMS vs IRIX war?
16:19:30 <ais523> oh well, the Earth hasn't been destroyed in retaliation yet
16:19:30 <ehird_> "My excrement is *so* *much* *better* than your excrement."
16:19:30 <ais523> it seems we're having an Earth vs. Moon war
16:19:51 <ais523> we could do darcs vs. git, I'm good at that one, but it may be a bit too mainstream
16:19:57 <ehird_> I thought that was Mars. You know, the 2x2 tic-tac-toe war?
16:20:08 <ais523> 2x2 tic-tac-toe is rather ridiculous...
16:20:11 <ehird_> (You know you've made it when you can make reference to your old lo-fi webcomics.)
16:20:24 <ais523> heh, reminds me of rock-scissors
16:20:27 <ehird_> ais523: Ah! But! If your opponent is set to win, just apply some HP Win Sauce!
16:20:30 <ais523> which is like rock-paper-scissors, but without the paper
16:20:34 <ehird_> It cleans that game right up!
16:20:38 <coppro> ais523: Mercurial is upset at you now
16:20:41 <ehird_> It's how we valiantly defeated the Martians.
16:20:48 <ehird_> coppro: Nobody cares about Mercurial, though.
16:20:49 -!- ehird has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
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16:20:51 <ehird> It's exceedingly mediocre!
16:20:55 <ehird> Whoa, auto-ghosting.
16:21:06 <ais523> coppro: most people who try to persuade me to switch from darcs are git fans
16:21:22 <ehird> ais523: I've actually changed heart in that war recently, I think
16:21:31 <ais523> which side are you on now?
16:21:35 <ehird> I'm not sure I'm going to use darcs for stuff, for practical reasons, but the UI is differenti n a legitimate way
16:21:38 <ais523> (I can't actually remember which side you were on before)
16:21:51 <ehird> as in, I think the paradigm is equally legitimate, if not more legitimate, than git's
16:21:54 <ais523> and I'm the first to admit that darcs isn't production-ready yet, and possibly never will be
16:21:57 <ehird> although perhaps not the implementation of it
16:22:12 <ehird> the "git" stereotype is hilariously 2005 nowadays.
16:22:17 <ehird> It's so inscrutable! but it's not.
16:22:24 <ais523> also, git rebase --interactive is amazing, and fixes many of the issues I have with git
16:22:44 <ais523> as in, it's a command that removes most of the "why can't I do this"ness in git, by letting me do it
16:22:51 <ais523> even if it is a bit more long-winded than it ought to be
16:23:37 <ehird> git's internal architecture is nice, and its command-set lets you Get Things Done, plus its implementation is less hilariously crippled than darcs. but darcs' interface *platonic ideal paradigm* is superior, if not its application of it.
16:23:51 <AnMaster> ais523, I find that rebaseing doesn't really fit into the VCS idea. Why? Because it changes the supposedly non-changeable history...
16:23:52 <ehird> I'm not convinced patch theory is worth all the bother
16:24:09 <ais523> AnMaster: agreed; although, to a darcs fan, it changes unimportant details that shouldn't even exist
16:24:22 <ehird> AnMaster: I doubt you foudn anything because found implieis a practical approach, whereas I suspect you read about what rebase does and decided that without using it.
16:24:30 <ehird> *found, *implies, *fuck this fucking keyboard
16:25:29 <AnMaster> of course I tried it. was maybe 5 or 6 months ago
16:25:49 <ehird> Yes, but finding it doesn't fit into the usual VCS paradigm implies some sort of practical usage for a while to make such a deduction.
16:25:51 <AnMaster> ais523, what shouldn't exist? rebasing? yes agreed
16:25:56 <ehird> He didn't say that.
16:26:02 <ehird> He didn't even imply anything close to that, although indirectly he did.
16:27:20 <Warrigal> 'If a first-class player is a Shoe and there is no Avatar shaped like em, an Avatar shaped like em and 1,500 snelfus are awarded to em.'
16:27:26 <Warrigal> 'For any Shoe, "eir Avatar" refers to an Avatar owned by em, not an Avatar shaped like em.'
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16:32:04 <ehird> Remarks On Flash in OS X After Using Ubuntu: Hey, it uses a bunch of CPU, but at least the audio is synchronized with the video.
16:33:33 <ais523_> ehird: it's even more fun if you put it to full screen (on Ubuntu, that is)
16:33:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:33:42 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
16:33:44 <ehird> You have Intel graphics, I assume.
16:33:54 <ehird> I am truley sorry for your lots; try zooming in with shitpiz. I mean Compiz.
16:34:06 <ehird> It works better, presumably.
16:34:07 <ais523> compiz doesn't even work with GLUT
16:34:11 <ais523> what's the chance it works with Flash?
16:34:11 <ehird> Well, apparently, not presumably.
16:34:17 <ehird> Um, it works fine.
16:34:18 <ehird> I can attest to that.
16:34:26 <ehird> Just super-scrollwheel into the Flash.
16:34:43 <ais523> oh, I meant the compiz/GLUT thing
16:34:43 <ehird> Anyway, I have an aaaaaaaaaaaancient ATI card, from the time the dinosaurs ruled... ...2006.
16:34:53 <ehird> So ATI themselves will have nothing to do with my wretched kind!
16:34:58 <ehird> fglrx, the only decent driver, gone.
16:35:05 <ehird> radeonhd? No workage for you!
16:35:16 <ehird> radeon? Man, tearing windows while resizing is so... trippy... man...
16:36:04 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:39:07 <AnMaster> <ehird> Remarks On Flash in OS X After Using Ubuntu: Hey, it uses a bunch of CPU, but at least the audio is synchronized with the video. <-- vlc can play youtube videos just fine for example
16:39:21 * ehird stares at mds in Activity Monitor, apparently indexing the newfound gigantic lack of TeX on my system.
16:40:10 <ehird> AnMaster: That's nice. I would indeed like to do extra work with extra clicks to use a player with an inferior UI to QuickTime (QuickTime X supports FLV, but I don't have Snow Leopard), and still be unable to participate in fun content such as http://tane.us/
16:40:28 <ais523> yay, apparently https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/197820 is fixed in Karmic
16:40:37 <ehird> Hmm, no, wait, I'd prefer to use Adobe's evil proprietary monopolising CPU-hogging player. I wonder how those GNASH guys are getting on OH BOY!
16:41:19 <ehird> ais523: why use Compiz, incidentally?
16:41:40 <ehird> it has inferior window placement to Metacity and is otherwise just candy, mostly useless and productivity-hampering
16:41:56 <ais523> ehird: my CPU is rather slow, Compiz is more responsive
16:42:09 <ais523> also, it's good at noticing when programs lock up
16:42:14 <ehird> ais523: because it's compositing; you can make metacity compositing, too
16:42:27 <ehird> gconf-editor, apps/metacity/general/compositing_manager I believe
16:42:33 <ehird> tick, and as a bonus you get window shadows
16:42:39 <ais523> if I wanted to mess with settings, though, I'd use KdE
16:42:43 <ehird> without all of compiz's bad window placement and extreme bugginess
16:43:04 <ehird> ais523: it seems like flicking one setting to avoid compiz's bag of bad is not against GNOME's philosophy
16:43:11 <ehird> and extremist positions are rarely correct
16:43:30 <ehird> it should probably be a Metacity preference in the future
16:43:36 <ehird> but with Metacity being replaced by Mutter that's unlikely to happen
16:44:49 <oerjan> <Warrigal> Sgeo: I would be extremely content if you were to do that. oerjan: are you saying the order of affixes in Greek-derived words like "philosophy" is language-dependent?
16:45:26 <oerjan> no, i'm saying the original greeks did not seem to keep a fixed order.
16:46:37 <Warrigal> They seemed to use right-branching more often, though. Left-branching words like "philosophy" have always bugged me.
16:46:49 <Warrigal> Especially since it seems to be the prefix philo- with the base sophy.
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16:52:26 <blarumyrran> On http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet.html , i dont really understand the "The interpreter finds the codel of the current colour block on that edge which is furthest to the CC's direction of the DP's direction of travel. (Visualise this as standing on the program and walking in the direction of the DP; see table at right.)"
16:53:57 <ais523> but I need to figure it out myself first
16:54:21 <ais523> basically, suppose you have a codel with a wide edge
16:54:26 <ais523> say, you have a 10x10 square red codel
16:54:28 <ais523> which you're in at the moment
16:54:31 <ais523> and you're going to the right
16:54:42 <ais523> and, there's a 5x5 blue codel and a 5x5 green codel immediately to its right
16:54:57 <ais523> what that's saying is that the codel chooser chooses which one of those is chosen as the next one
16:55:01 <blarumyrran> And it chooses the uppest one if the cc is left?
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17:14:29 <ehird> Torrents: ~90KiB, 0.7KiB, >400KiB within one second.
17:14:44 * ais523 writes a new page on the esolang wiki
17:14:47 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Suffolk
17:14:52 <ais523> I decided to make a TC language based on Norfuck
17:15:05 <ehird> surely you mean Suffuck
17:15:26 <ais523> although, I may have misspelt the name
17:15:33 <ais523> it's a pronunciation joke
17:16:07 <oerjan> either that, or suffolk is a really, really sucky place
17:16:22 <ehird> I made the norfuck/norfolk connection too
17:16:53 <ais523> oerjan: it isn't that bad
17:16:57 <blarumyrran> I first read Norfuck as Norfolk in the above sentence
17:17:11 <ais523> IIRC, it has the new road markings visibility test road
17:17:15 <ais523> which is great fun to drive down
17:17:25 <ais523> basically, they're looking for an alternative to cat's eyes
17:17:29 <ais523> for various sorts of road markings
17:17:40 <ais523> so they have a few miles of road which has loads of experimental road markings on
17:17:44 <ais523> some of which are really quite pretty
17:18:33 <ehird> is distracting you from the road really so clever :P
17:18:53 <ais523> those ones possibly won't be used
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17:21:35 <ehird> Hey, within a few hundred KiBs of maxing out my connection.
17:21:47 <ehird> I wish this wasn't surprising for torrents.
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17:24:02 <oerjan> in the meantime, ais523 is mining out his connection
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17:35:48 <ehird> ais523: btw, you were talking about firefox consistency with new tab modifiers?
17:36:30 <ehird> ais523: Safari does pretty well with that — for instance, command-enter submits this form into a new tab
17:36:45 <ehird> seemingly useless, but it leaves your original text intact, in case you're spamming or something I guess
17:37:40 <ehird> No; since Safari 4, (and I disagree with this change) the refresh "button" is at the end of the URL field, and command-click on a text field = not a button, so = drag = rearrange toolbar
17:37:47 <ehird> Command-back/forwards buttons work, though!
17:37:56 <ehird> I can think of a few uses for that.
17:38:17 <ehird> And, well, I can't exactly press ⌘⌘R.
17:38:22 <ais523> ehird: I do control-back quite a lot in Firefox
17:38:40 <ehird> ais523: does it work when clicking the buttons? (control-click back)
17:38:45 <Deewiant> Control-backspace doesn't work though
17:39:18 <ais523> (I use control-click rather than middle-click because middle-clicking seems rather shaky with this mouse)
17:40:10 <ehird> Middle clicking buttons does fuck all in OS X, and Safari doesn't break very many UI conventions.
17:40:27 <ehird> I wonder what modifier-stop should do.
17:40:36 <ehird> Show the pre-reload page in a new tab, and keep reloading?
17:40:45 <ehird> How deliciously useless!
17:41:01 <ais523> actually, that could be potentially useful
17:41:14 <ais523> one of the websites here uses some sort of meta refresh if you give an incorrect password
17:41:25 <ais523> rather than just not logging you in, it instead logs you out on a timer
17:41:29 <ais523> for no reason I can think of
17:41:48 <ais523> I think none of the buttons on the resulting page are functional, so it isn't actually a security risk
17:42:05 <ehird> Cmd-Home works in Safari
17:42:21 <ehird> Nor I, I made one just to se
17:42:27 <ehird> Home pages are rather archaic
17:43:18 * ehird tries something that can't possibly work
17:43:40 <ehird> Awesome! It opened a new tab in a new tab.
17:43:49 <Deewiant> I don't have a new tab button either
17:43:57 <ais523> ehird: if only that created nested tabs
17:44:07 <ehird> Deewiant: I do, at the end of my tab bar.
17:44:11 <ehird> It's very discrete.
17:44:24 <ais523> IE7 and Konqueror have new tab buttons; Firefox and Epiphany don't
17:44:27 <ehird> Not really much of a button, I guess; but then the whole tab bar is non-standard.
17:44:47 <ehird> Deewiant: You can't do that in Safari because seriously, it's a tiny little pixeled cross.
17:45:27 <ehird> (History and Bookmarks display as special pages (still using the native UI) in Safari)
17:45:38 <Deewiant> I don't have to check to know that works
17:45:45 <ehird> Predictably, so does bookmarks
17:45:51 <ehird> Deewiant: Check how what works?
17:46:11 <Deewiant> ehird: Not how. "that" = history in new tab.
17:46:23 -!- ais523_ has joined.
17:46:34 <ehird> History normally pops up as a window in Firefox, which just confuses that.
17:46:45 <ehird> Because it's not really the "done thing"
17:47:04 <ehird> Well, in my impression.
17:47:08 * ehird attempts the world's silliest operation... Print in a new tab!
17:47:23 <ehird> It helpfully lets me rearrange the print button.
17:47:43 <Deewiant> My Firefox is so customized I don't know the defaults
17:48:05 <ehird> Cmd-New tab toolbar button = Rearrange yay
17:48:43 <ehird> ais523_: have you ever wanted to zoom text... in a new tab
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17:54:56 <ehird> um is it just dsfjkgdfg me or is os x not underlining spelling mistakes any more
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18:01:06 <blarumyrran> An os that by itself underlines spelling mistakes everywhere?
18:02:54 <ehird> Um, in regular user-input fields, yes.
18:03:05 -!- ais523_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:03:10 <ehird> You know, as opposed to every web browser, messaging client, email program, oh, you know... everything... using its own.
18:03:22 <ehird> Well, every unless it's been disabled, obviously.
18:04:16 -!- oerjan has quit ("Later").
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18:06:35 <ais523_> tell that to the routers around here
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18:13:48 <pikhq> ... A Nobel Peace Prize for Obama?
18:14:21 <pikhq> What has he done, other than be the first black President of the United States, that's even all that historically relevant?
18:14:25 <ais523> it seems that the news reporter on CBS thought it was a practical joke when it came up on the autocue
18:16:51 <ehird> ais523: so, I think I've found a more interesting holy war for this channel to participate in when we want one
18:17:48 <ehird> ais523: Nethack vs Angband
18:18:03 <ehird> unfortunately, it's likely to be massively crooked to Nethack
18:18:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:18:15 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:18:22 <ais523> aw, I disconnected just before you could tell me what it was
18:18:26 <ehird> [18:16] ehird: ais523: so, I think I've found a more interesting holy war for this channel to participate in when we want one
18:18:26 <Deewiant> Why angband in particular as the opponent
18:18:26 <ehird> [18:16] ehird: also more obscure
18:18:26 <ehird> [18:17] ehird: ais523: Nethack vs Angband
18:18:27 <ehird> [18:18] ehird: unfortunately, it's likely to be massively crooked to Nethack
18:18:35 <Deewiant> Why angband in particular as the opponent
18:18:39 <ais523> NetHack vs Crawl could be an interesting one
18:18:44 <ais523> I've been in channels with that one happening a lot
18:18:49 <ehird> Deewiant: Because I've seen at least one Angband player diss' (jokingly) Nethack, plus they're quite similar and still relatively actively developed
18:18:52 <ais523> except, I've been arguing on the side of they're two different things
18:18:56 <ais523> and so not in competition
18:19:06 <ehird> I think Angband is the same sort of thing as Nethack
18:19:13 <ais523> I had a NetHack vs. Angband discussion in RL a while ago
18:19:23 <ehird> Nononono, GET A FLAMETHROWER.
18:19:25 <ais523> the other person had played Angband but not NetHack
18:19:31 <ais523> and thought that NetHack was probably superior
18:19:35 <ais523> and based on what he said, I agreed
18:19:42 <ais523> you need two sides for a flamewar
18:19:50 <ais523> also, why are you calling NetHack actively developed?
18:19:57 <ehird> It is, it's just never released
18:20:17 <ehird> Anyway, it's not like the slow releases are anything new; it's ticking exactly on release schedule
18:20:25 <ehird> ("Release like 7 years after the previous one")
18:20:27 <ais523> this one's even slower than the others
18:20:28 <blarumyrran> I played some roguelike once, one of those, i dont remember which one
18:20:35 <ehird> "You hasst not seen it, Angband? But perhapss you have seen one like it, the filthy, filthy NetHack, yess, full of such stupids and jokeses, and no Smeagol! We hates it for ever! But we loves Angband, yess, Angband has Smeagol and the fat hobbitses and yes, it has my preciouss! We loves it, Angband!"
18:20:36 <ehird> — http://ridiculousfish.com/blog/archives/2007/04/13/42/
18:20:39 <ehird> I think it's pretty hard to rebut that
18:20:57 <ehird> (Also featured: Most obnoxious blog theme ever)
18:21:10 <ehird> (I much preferred his old design. Bring a text browser or disable CSS feature.)
18:21:17 <blarumyrran> It has a ridiculous amount of shortcut keys necessary to play. I was a necromancer yet i only figured out how to hit things with a stick. I got eaten by some canines. I deleted the game & never looked at a rougelike again.
18:21:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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18:22:30 <ehird> what did you last see
18:22:45 <ais523> [18:20] <blarumyrran> I played some roguelike once, one of those, i dont remember which one
18:22:46 <ais523> [18:20] <ais523> it's already been 7 years
18:23:07 <ehird> [18:20] ehird: "You hasst not seen it, Angband? But perhapss you have seen one like it, the filthy, filthy NetHack, yess, full of such stupids and jokeses, and no Smeagol! We hates it for ever! But we loves Angband, yess, Angband has Smeagol and the fat hobbitses and yes, it has my preciouss! We loves it, Angband!"
18:23:08 <ehird> [18:20] ehird: — http://ridiculousfish.com/blog/archives/2007/04/13/42/
18:23:08 <ehird> [18:20] ehird: I think it's pretty hard to rebut that
18:23:08 <ehird> [18:20] ehird: (Also featured: Most obnoxious blog theme ever)
18:23:10 <ehird> [18:21] ehird: (I much preferred his old design. Bring a text browser or disable CSS feature.)
18:23:12 <ehird> [18:21] blarumyrran: It has a ridiculous amount of shortcut keys necessary to play. I was a necromancer yet i only figured out how to hit things with a stick. I got eaten by some canines. I deleted the game & never looked at a rougelike again.
18:23:19 <ehird> Woop, according to Flux the sun just set
18:23:31 <ehird> Everything looks red now, as it will for some minutes
18:23:41 <ehird> Well, orangey red. PapayaWhip. It looks PapayaWhip.
18:23:52 <ehird> Sun appears to be out to my eyes.
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18:24:28 <ais523_> [18:22] <ehird> what did you last see
18:24:30 <ais523_> [18:22] [CTCP] Received Version request from freenode-connect.
18:24:32 <ais523_> [18:22] <ais523> [18:20] <blarumyrran> I played some roguelike once, one of those, i dont remember which one
18:24:36 <ais523_> [18:22] <ais523> [18:20] <ais523> it's already been 7 years
18:24:38 <ais523_> [18:22] <ais523> (I wasn't responding to blarumyrran there, btw)
18:24:42 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
18:24:56 <blarumyrran> It wouldve been a strange answer if you were
18:24:57 <ehird> [18:22] blarumyrran: Didnt see that
18:24:57 <ehird> [18:23] ehird: [18:20] ehird: "You hasst not seen it, Angband? But perhapss you have seen one like it, the filthy, filthy NetHack, yess, full of such stupids and jokeses, and no Smeagol! We hates it for ever! But we loves Angband, yess, Angband has Smeagol and the fat hobbitses and yes, it has my preciouss! We loves it, Angband!"
18:24:57 <ehird> [18:23] ehird: [18:20] ehird: — http://ridiculousfish.com/blog/archives/2007/04/13/42/
18:24:58 <ehird> [18:23] ehird: [18:20] ehird: I think it's pretty hard to rebut that
18:24:59 <ehird> [18:23] ehird: [18:20] ehird: :P
18:24:59 <ehird> [18:23] ehird: [18:20] ehird: (Also featured: Most obnoxious blog theme ever)
18:25:01 <ehird> [18:23] ehird: [18:21] ehird: (I much preferred his old design. Bring a text browser or disable CSS feature.)
18:25:04 <ehird> [18:23] ehird: [18:21] blarumyrran: It has a ridiculous amount of shortcut keys necessary to play. I was a necromancer yet i only figured out how to hit things with a stick. I got eaten by some canines. I deleted the game & never looked at a rougelike again.
18:25:08 <ehird> [18:23] ehird: Woop, according to Flux the sun just set
18:25:10 <ehird> [18:23] ehird: Everything looks red now, as it will for some minutes
18:25:12 <ehird> [18:23] ehird: Well, orangey red. PapayaWhip. It looks PapayaWhip.
18:25:14 <ehird> [18:23] ehird: Sun appears to be out to my eyes.
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18:25:37 <ais523> AngBand takes itself too seriously
18:25:47 <ehird> ais523: did you see all those lines?
18:25:49 <ais523> sorry, too used to capitalising NetHack
18:26:23 <ehird> ais523: Angband has had a bot player for a long time
18:26:34 <ehird> and has been made into an OS X screensaver
18:26:38 <ehird> that's either a pro or a con, depending
18:26:48 <ehird> pro in that it has innovative roguelike technology
18:26:56 <ehird> con in that it must not be _that_ hard to code one
18:27:03 <ehird> latter is invalid if it turns out someone just decided to first
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18:28:15 <ais523_> [18:25] <ehird> ais523: did you see all those lines?
18:28:17 <ais523_> [18:25] <ais523> sorry, too used to capitalising NetHack
18:28:19 <ais523_> [18:25] <ais523> and yes I did
18:28:22 <ehird> just tell me the last line
18:28:23 <ais523_> [18:26] <ais523> blarumyrran: sounds like you were playing Slash'EM
18:28:39 <ais523_> I paste in a bunch so it comes out before my connection drops
18:28:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Nick collision from services.).
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18:28:57 <ais523> just like I developed the habit of scping my email from Normish
18:29:17 <ehird> [18:26] ehird: ais523: Angband has had a bot player for a long time
18:29:18 <ehird> [18:26] ehird: and has been made into an OS X screensaver
18:29:18 <ehird> [18:26] ehird: that's either a pro or a con, depending
18:29:18 <ehird> [18:26] ehird: pro in that it has innovative roguelike technology
18:29:18 <ehird> [18:26] ehird: con in that it must not be _that_ hard to code one
18:29:19 <ehird> [18:27] ehird: latter is invalid if it turns out someone just decided to first
18:29:47 <ais523> Angband is very easy to grind in, apparently
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18:30:22 <ehird> [[Sure, the graphics might be lacking and the sound is non-existant, but the gameplay is great and non-repetitive. Well, not too repetitive at any rate. Actually some of the time you feel like you’re going through the motions, but that’s not *all* of the time.]]
18:30:23 <ehird> — comment on http://ridiculousfish.com/blog/archives/2007/04/13/42/
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18:34:16 <ehird> ais523: cut that shit out
18:34:20 <ehird> arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh
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18:44:12 * ehird attempts, to no avail, to find a thingy
18:59:01 -!- Sgeo has joined.
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19:05:14 <Deewiant> ehird: Stop posting inaccurate info to reddit
19:05:54 * ehird attempts to think of when he last did that
19:05:58 <ehird> Nope, sorry. I'm flawless.
19:06:08 <ehird> Flawless like a diamond. A flawless diamond.
19:06:28 <AnMaster> yay finally a nice pastebin (except no syntax highlighting): http://sprunge.us/
19:06:57 <ehird> I made a reddit comment that recently?
19:07:43 <Deewiant> Anyway, the reason I wanted you to stop was because you forced me to respond, so you should find it easily if you care.
19:07:45 <ehird> So I did. "Stop posting inaccurate info" is a rather dickish way of saying "you did indeed correct his mistaking of one puzzle for another, but you do NOT FOLLOW INTIMATE SUDOKU KNOWLEDGE! HA!"
19:08:26 <Deewiant> You're almost always a dick here so I don't mind being dickish to you.
19:08:39 <ehird> Then I won't bother correcting the post.
19:09:19 <ehird> Then I don't know why you pointed it out to me.
19:09:53 <Deewiant> Because I figured I'd chat a bit, I guess
19:10:03 <ehird> Some definition of chat
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19:16:57 <FireFly> " (except no syntax highlighting)"
19:17:05 <FireFly> "add ?<lang> to resulting url for line numbers and syntax highlighting"
19:17:08 <Sgeo> ehird, in what way is Joel wrong/an idiot?
19:17:23 <ehird> talk about some latency
19:18:31 <ehird> but here, have some funtimes, because i'm a lazy asswipe and can't be arsed to do anything else: http://diveintomark.org/archives/2008/03/18/translation-from-ms-speak-to-english-of-selected-portions-of-joel-spolskys-martin-headsets
19:19:03 <ehird> also, he associates with jeff atwood through running stack overflow (a hilariously useless site, coded incompetently) with him
19:19:11 <ehird> and if you ask why jeff atwood is an idiot, there is no hope for you
19:20:00 <AnMaster> FireFly, weird, but doesn't actually add colours...
19:20:14 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:20:25 <ehird> I'm sure you can handle not skimming it
19:22:59 -!- adam_d has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:23:27 -!- ehird has quit.
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19:27:20 <ehird> bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): Inappropriate ioctl for device
19:27:20 <ehird> bash: no job control in this shell
19:27:22 <ehird> Wonder what that means.
19:28:17 <Sgeo> Talking piano! http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/09/mechanical-piano-hacked-to-talk-says-nothing-youd-be-intereste/
19:29:17 <ehird> "We're just wondering how Black Moth Super Rainbow will ever fit this thing onto their tour van."
19:29:17 <ehird> i feel so hipster for knowing who that is :(
19:31:30 <AnMaster> is it something you will go woosh about me not knowing=
19:31:46 <ehird> or do you mean "hipsterr"
19:32:24 <AnMaster> as for hipster, of course I know what that is
19:35:42 <fizziew> Caught signal 11. Server aborting
19:35:48 <fizziew> It would be nice if something ever worked.
19:36:15 <AnMaster> fizziew, what was it that crashed there?
19:36:25 <ehird> fizziew: MAYBE YOU COULD DEBUG MY BASH PROBLEM
19:36:43 <fizziew> AnMaster: X, of course; haven't you seen a crash message like that?
19:37:00 <fizziew> Goes and dies in "xf86EnterServerState+0x5b8".
19:37:08 <AnMaster> fizziew, nah, when X crashed it tended to require sysrq for recovery
19:37:27 <AnMaster> might be due to nvidia drivers
19:38:10 <AnMaster> <Sgeo> Talking piano! http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/09/mechanical-piano-hacked-to-talk-says-nothing-youd-be-intereste/ <-- the video link on the linked page is broken?
19:38:27 <Sgeo> AnMaster, works here
19:38:37 <AnMaster> Sgeo, "http://wstreaming.zdf.de/3sat/veryhigh/091002_klavier_kuz.asx"?
19:38:44 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muCPjK4nGY4
19:38:54 <AnMaster> oh I followed the link on the bottom there
19:39:01 <AnMaster> due to now seeing any other video due to no js
19:39:19 <ehird> I wonder if the text on http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QW-CHEATSHEET&Category_Code=QW is legible IRL.
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19:40:16 <Deewiant> That pic is legible enough so the bigger one on the shirt definitely is unless their printing quality sucks
19:41:27 <ehird> The small text in that image is so not legible.
19:41:59 <Deewiant> I can read it all without requiring a zoom-in
19:42:09 <ehird> Buy a higher ppi display, sit back.
19:42:10 <Deewiant> The smallest at the bottom left is tricky but not impossible to read
19:42:44 <Deewiant> Regardless, it'll be bigger on the shirt
19:43:30 <ehird> Kind of irrelevant, since they don't make XXXXXXXXXXXXS shirts, so none of them would fit anyway. :P
19:45:59 <fizzie> Yes, when it crashes; but when it doesn't even start, in my case you can usually find a segfault like that in the Xorg.log.
19:46:42 <fizzie> Works if I leave the Radeon card (well, chip) out of the configuration, but that's not fun.
19:53:29 <ehird> i have a feeling that oklopol drunk is boring oklopol!
19:54:37 <ehird> "AJ: FidoNet relay forgot to pay their modem line's phone bill, evite got delayed"
19:54:38 <ehird> — http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150378896878&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
19:55:32 <fizzie> Oh, and the web server laptop boots with the new power supply, but kernel-panicks somewhere in the IPv6 code.
19:55:48 <oklopol> usually it's just old gay guys
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19:56:08 <ehird> well hit her successfully
19:56:19 <ehird> fizzie: by bomb i meant subtle breaker
19:56:27 <ehird> actually i meant no comment
19:56:51 <AnMaster> ehird, about that shirt... I checked it and you can't build all the stuff just based on it. In particular, it doesn't mention *how* when you get to around radio and such
19:56:55 <oklopol> i can't hit her because i'm so drunk i said no
19:57:09 <ehird> AnMaster: Yes. Because you buy that shirt to actually go back in time to use.
19:57:14 <fizzie> I have four LVM snapshots of the system, and I don't know which one to mount.
19:57:17 <ehird> Not for the humour/nerd factor or anything, noooooooooppppppppppe.
19:57:49 <ehird> Deewiant: Another entry in the modifier+click tabbing debate! Right click on text, hold command, click Search with Google. Bam! Tabbed.
19:58:12 <ehird> Handling a modifier key on a menu item. I think that's pretty damn devoted to consistency.
19:58:20 <ehird> Deewiant: Can you hold alt to download the search results?
19:59:01 <Deewiant> Does alt ever do that in Firefox?
19:59:24 <ehird> Well, no, but it does in Safari. SAFARI WINS THIS ROUND! :P
20:00:07 <Deewiant> I can't say I feel the need for it
20:00:28 <ehird> Clicking to download an audio file instead of showing an embedded player.
20:01:12 <Deewiant> I usually try to normal-click it first anyway
20:01:50 <Deewiant> Since these days you never know if a link leads to an HTML page which redirects to the actual download
20:02:32 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:02:35 <ehird> Deewiant: Bit annoying in non-Pro QuickTime 7, where you can't save media files from an embedded page; you have to go back and download them.
20:02:50 -!- oklopol has joined.
20:02:53 <ehird> Thankfully QuickTime X abolished the Pro b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t but I don't have the snowier Leppadz.
20:04:55 -!- fungot has joined.
20:05:07 <fungot> ehird: i guess i'll look at this beast:
20:05:10 <fungot> ehird: gregorr disappeared! :) " needs planning" website here :p) and all other numbers are a superset of x that can happen
20:05:14 <fungot> ehird: beginning to end" yet he rates it highly compatible body of real-world scheme code.) ( though i couldn't imaging that they like the visual diversity of infix languages. something similar applies to scheme. that doesn't necessarily get you to do
20:05:16 <fungot> ehird: ( textmate.) have lower precedence than the bitwise operators have such low precedence?
20:05:30 <ehird> Deewiant: Are you sure? Try it
20:05:44 <fungot> Deewiant: " pretty fast" is more than just c, it's dlopen(). if it's computable, it's compilable.
20:05:46 <ehird> fungot more like fungHOT
20:05:47 <fungot> ehird: uh. that doesn't make much sense to use reactions explicitly ( e.g.,
20:05:58 <AnMaster> hm turns out that vlc on a youtube link works directly
20:06:00 <fizzie> It's just a STRN "strstr" call to see if it's being talked to.
20:06:24 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
20:06:30 <oklopol> ehird: you're probably right that i'm boring when i'm drunk, can't really follow the discussion
20:06:37 <AnMaster> fizzie, is irc the default? or is it saved?
20:06:56 <fizzie> It's the default. It's not saved. I think.
20:07:06 <ehird> Perian + Flip4Mac > VLC
20:07:19 <ehird> Strictly in the context of OS X, you understand.
20:07:32 <ehird> Although VLC is unacceptable in general due to its inability to handle softsubs properly.
20:08:07 <fizzie> 34 non-persistent state init
20:08:07 <fizzie> 35 > 000f-p 010f-p 0"cri.nib.ledom"00fe+-P v
20:08:07 <fizzie> 36 v p-+aa000 P-+ff00"tokens.bin.irc"0 <
20:08:07 <fizzie> 38 load the babble model list
20:08:08 <fizzie> 39 > 0ccc**00"tsil.selyts"#vi$$$$v
20:08:18 <ehird> Perian uses ffmpeg and so handles them perfectly while using the normal QuickTime UI, which is pretty neato.
20:08:32 <fizzie> It seems to set model.bin.irc / tokens.bin.irc to the default file names.
20:08:37 <ehird> Although that's not really a practical approach on other OSs, because all their native players suck.
20:08:44 <ehird> Well, totem is acceptable.
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20:11:37 <AnMaster> <ehird> Although VLC is unacceptable in general due to its inability to handle softsubs properly. <-- what are softsubs
20:11:50 <ehird> Subtitles that aren't hardcoded into the video data.
20:12:03 <ehird> VLC wantonly disregards their formatting, and displays them in a jaggedy, ugly font.
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20:12:20 <ehird> AnMaster: I am not surprised.
20:12:20 -!- comex_ has joined.
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20:12:20 <ehird> Anyway, it's a total dealbreaker.
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20:12:48 <AnMaster> ehird, totem refuses to play *.aac here for example
20:12:58 <ehird> That's just a codec issue.
20:13:06 <ehird> Install faad or something, I guess.
20:13:08 <AnMaster> ehird, tried installed all the non-free codecs things
20:13:28 <ehird> Personally I'd just use mplayer.
20:13:34 <ehird> maybe with its built-in gtk gui
20:13:45 <ehird> It handles softsubs correctly and plays everything, so yeah.
20:13:58 <ehird> Also, it has the most important feature of VLC; coloured ASCII output.
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20:14:41 <Deewiant> And I keep VLC around for stuff that mplayer doesn't like
20:14:44 <ehird> I saw smplayer onne time. Looked overly comoplex and oh so Qt.
20:14:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I run into that sort of stuff quite a lot
20:15:06 <ehird> Deewiant: Compared to mplayer's default GUI.
20:15:09 <AnMaster> Deewiant, heck I even run into stuff that only xine handles
20:15:15 <Deewiant> Does it even have a GUI by default?
20:15:17 <ehird> Admittedly I'm a minimalist.
20:15:20 <ehird> Deewiant: It ships with one.
20:15:27 <Deewiant> gmplayer? I thought it was separate
20:15:43 <ehird> MPlayer has --enable-gtk2
20:15:57 <ehird> I think gmplayer is separate though
20:15:59 <Deewiant> But anyway, there was some issue with gmplayer which is why I switched to smplayer
20:16:10 <AnMaster> ehird, mplayer <youtube url> doesn't work
20:16:26 <ehird> AnMaster: I have Flash so I don't really care.
20:19:41 <ehird> I wonder if I DDoS elitekeyboards.com they might quickly put all models back in stock.
20:19:43 <ehird> That is a stupid idea.
20:20:38 <AnMaster> ehird, there is no logic behind that
20:20:52 <ehird> They could sense my wishes.
20:21:29 <ehird> What are the kids into nowadays? Porn? Emoticons? Emoticon porn?
20:21:49 <ehird> Porn involving emoticons solving CAPTCHAs.
20:21:51 <AnMaster> ehird, you should know better than me. You are more of a kid than I am
20:21:55 <ehird> ActiveX control... written.
20:22:04 <ehird> Shady marketing campaign... is a go go.
20:22:17 <ehird> Central control IRC channel... totally friggin' established.
20:25:02 <ehird> [20:24] Sgeo: /version Wooble
20:25:02 <ehird> — presumably a /query
20:25:25 <ehird> Oh, not a mistake.
20:26:18 <AnMaster> ehird, also what was the reply?
20:26:33 <ehird> Wooble is this guy. He's a jerk :P
20:26:59 <fizzie> Heh, you're one to say. Uh, I mean...
20:27:12 <ehird> Yes, but he's a jerk to me consistently. :P
20:27:18 <ehird> ALSO I AM NOT ALONE IN MY OPINIONS
20:36:56 <AnMaster> few things are so annoying in a 3D game as when the walking animation actually doesn't match up with the speed the unit is moving at
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20:38:35 <AnMaster> <ehird> Yes, but he's a jerk to me consistently. :P <-- I can understand him
20:38:48 <ehird> To me is kind of redundant, he's a jerk in general
20:38:53 -!- FireFly has joined.
20:38:54 <ehird> But yeah, fuck you too
20:39:09 <AnMaster> ehird, he could easily turn in one around you.
20:39:26 <ehird> I guess those days of mailing list messages when I don't speak are all lies and deceit.
20:43:41 * ehird realises how to view the comments on geekhack.org
20:50:08 <AnMaster> ehird, err... what? it seems like a normal forum?
20:50:10 <ehird> Deewiant: The "3847 comments" link just links to the same page
20:50:20 <ehird> AnMaster: Clearly you have not clicked enough,.
20:50:46 <ehird> Deewiant: Say, is there a PS/2→USB adapter that doesn't use the keyboard protocol, so that it can support N-key rollover with a custom driver?
20:51:08 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Why ask me, ehird obviously has the site nearby
20:51:16 <Sgeo> Dang it, what's that 3d printer video that ehird linked to once?
20:51:25 <ehird> youtube.com/something
20:51:37 <ehird> Deewiant: I have no PS/2 ports, you see
20:51:46 <Sgeo> "This account is closed. "
20:51:48 <Deewiant> Then you're stuck with 6-key rollover
20:51:56 <Sgeo> There really was a user named "something"
20:52:02 <ehird> Deewiant: But there's no theoretical reason for that!
20:52:06 <Deewiant> But you probably are anyway since you probably won't code the driverr
20:52:16 <AnMaster> most PS/2 keyboards seems to have that limit too
20:52:26 <ehird> No, most keyboards handle 4 keys
20:52:27 <Sgeo> youtube.com/god
20:52:35 <AnMaster> ehird, well yeah, 4 rather than 6
20:52:45 <ehird> Deewiant: Yes, but if it was available for buybuy, it would be available to downloadload
20:52:55 <ehird> Unless people HATE OS X WITH A FIERY BURNIN' PASSHIN'
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20:56:42 <ehird> THE "WHAT THE FRIGGIN HELL" HUMAN-COMPUTER INTERFACE PORT SPECIFICATION
20:56:56 <ehird> All values are 8-bit.
20:57:19 <ehird> 00 XX XX — keyboard pressed XX XX
20:57:41 <ehird> 01 XX YY — mouse moved in direction XX,YY from centre
20:57:56 <ehird> 02 XX — mouse button XX pressed
20:58:08 <ehird> 03 onwards — extension defined
20:58:09 <ehird> Use IEC 169-2 connectors.
20:58:54 <ehird> Example innovation: Your keyboard can have a mouse port and multiplex it into one stream!
20:59:01 <ehird> Two mice controlling the same pointer!
20:59:26 <ehird> Requires everything to have a separate power supply!
21:00:09 <AnMaster> <ehird> Requires everything to have a separate power supply! <-- is this about PS/2?
21:00:20 <ehird> No, THE "WHAT THE FRIGGIN HELL" HUMAN-COMPUTER INTERFACE PORT SPECIFICATION
21:00:27 <ehird> See 20:56 to recently
21:00:43 <AnMaster> is that something you made up just now
21:00:44 <ehird> IEC 169-2 connectors = TV cable
21:00:59 <AnMaster> no one would do keyboard or mouse over THAT
21:01:14 <ehird> It's just in the IRC logs.
21:01:16 <ehird> It's only a few lines.
21:02:10 <ehird> As a bonus, you can do a joystick or whatever without using any extensions. Use multiple cables, use mouse movements and buttons on all of them, write a driver to mix them all up!\
21:02:28 <ehird> I was trying to invent the one HID protocol simpler than Apple Desktop Bus.
21:02:46 <ehird> So why not remove such useless things as computer-to-device communication?
21:03:15 <ehird> Additionally: ADB connectors (same as S-Video) have four prongs. IEC 169-2 only has one.
21:03:18 <ehird> It is clearly simpler.
21:04:08 <ehird> Admittedly a two-pin solution would be acceptable, for delivering power.
21:04:32 <ehird> The smallest Mini-DIN is 3-pin.
21:07:16 <ehird> Deewiant: http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/11706/subcatid/0/id/132564
21:07:26 <ehird> The TrackPoint will be good, if not the keyboard :P
21:07:33 <ehird> COULD BE WORSE THOUGH
21:07:42 <ehird> Also: http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/categories.main/parentcat/9244
21:09:40 <ehird> [[It's not without its problems though. On my keyboard I get the occasional key bounce, where a key is registered twice when it's only pressed once. But it's pretty rare, and hasn't happened often enough to be annoying yet.]]
21:09:45 <ehird> Talking about brown cherries
21:09:51 <ehird> Deewiant: Not sure your decision was the best :-P
21:10:07 <Deewiant> My numpad has been fine thus far
21:10:07 <SimonRC> is "brown cherries" a euphamism?
21:10:15 <Deewiant> AAAnd reaally, annythinig isi betterrr than this sccraap.
21:10:16 <ehird> Let's pretend it is
21:10:22 <ehird> What on earth is it an euphemism for
21:10:28 <ehird> Deewiant: Does that really happen every linle?
21:10:37 <ehird> SimonRC: (They're a brand of mechanical keyswitch.)
21:10:42 <Deewiant> Not quite every, but often enoughh to be annnoying.
21:11:05 <ehird> I like how it morphed crarp into scrap
21:11:05 <Deewiant> I meaan, sosmething haappensss every line, but thhe truly baddd sshssit dodesn't alwaays happen.
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21:11:39 <ehird> Maybe I should pick myself up an Apple Extended Keyboard [II]; original ALPS keyswitches!
21:12:02 <Deewiant> Truly bad = like that 'morph', where the bounce is registered after I've already pressed (and got registered) another key
21:12:24 <Deewiant> And when that happens several times a row.
21:12:26 <SimonRC> I get that with my o key at work sometimes
21:12:58 <SimonRC> It happens enough for comedy and to give my KB a bit of character (NPI)
21:13:09 <SimonRC> but not enough to be annoying
21:13:24 <ehird> No Personal Interaction?
21:13:55 <ehird> Ah yes, the ever-popular contradiction in terms.
21:14:09 <SimonRC> I mean, I creted that sentance without intending a pun
21:14:39 <Deewiant> It's useful to say "I didn't say this to make a joke even if you read it as one"
21:14:41 <ehird> Because when you noticed the pun, you still sent the line like that
21:14:51 <ehird> The only purpose of "NPI" is "hey, notice my pun!"
21:15:16 <Deewiant> It's not always easy to modify the sentence so that there is no pun
21:15:27 <ehird> So what's the matter iwth leaving the pun as-is
21:15:29 <Deewiant> So just stick NPI there and leave it
21:15:54 <Deewiant> Because if it's read as an intended pun, it may not be taken as seriously as intended.
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21:18:17 * Sgeo realizes that there is another list of songs that will automatically, upon me hearing them, endear themselves to me
21:18:21 <Sgeo> The WebTV background songs
21:19:00 <AnMaster> ehird, there? Python debugger question. How do you make it single step into a thread that is created. Rather than continue single stepping in the main thread
21:19:18 <ehird> party line: don't use threads in python, world of pain
21:19:23 <ehird> beyond that, ask #python, don't know
21:19:43 <ehird> I recommend print debugging.
21:19:46 <AnMaster> oh and it works on windows, by pure chance.
21:20:09 <Sgeo> ehird, without threads, how do I have the same Python program both receive ... um, I don't think I thought out my plans too well
21:20:48 <AnMaster> or this might even qualify for a "wut?"
21:21:02 <Sgeo> I wanted to have a python program both be an IRC bot and do something else, but the something else is "receive http stuff"
21:21:02 <ehird> sgeo is one giant whut.
21:21:06 <fizzie> I've done some threads in Python, and it wasn't that painful, compared to, say, threads in Perl.
21:21:12 <AnMaster> <ehird> sgeo is one giant whut. <-- agreed.
21:21:44 <AnMaster> fizzie, it is using the _thread module (was "thread" in python 2.x and yes it is broken there too..)
21:21:48 <ehird> fizzie: GIL = your threads are running in lockstep
21:22:03 <AnMaster> ehird, except when a C module says it can run freely
21:22:25 <AnMaster> ehird, some C modules *can* do that, when waiting for IO
21:22:26 <Sgeo> What's wrong with lockstep threads?
21:22:43 <AnMaster> Sgeo, um, you don't gain any speed with multi-core setups for example
21:22:59 <ehird> this is actually a revelation to Sgeo .
21:23:00 <fizzie> ehird: It doesn't really matter; the threads were still a more pleasant abstraction (relatively speaking) than some sort of select-based multiplexplexatron.
21:23:15 <AnMaster> ehird, sure it wasn't some kind of bad humour?
21:23:15 <ehird> fizzie: see multiprocessing module, a non-python language, .
21:23:20 <Sgeo> ehird, it's obvious if I come to think of it, but I didn't think of it
21:23:37 <ehird> You can tell when Sgeo is joking because it's less funny than a three year old's.
21:23:50 <AnMaster> ehird, so I'm *more* funny than Sgeo?
21:23:59 <ehird> INCIDENTALLY SGEO how do you feel about being my human punching bag
21:24:06 <ehird> just capitalistic trade, you know
21:24:11 <AnMaster> ehird, hey, I thought I was that one
21:24:18 <ehird> AnMaster: As much as it pains me to say it, yes
21:24:21 <ehird> Also, no, I mean literal
21:24:27 <ehird> I just yell at you when you're stupid.
21:25:02 <Deewiant> Literal punching bag? You mean you physically punch Sgeo around?
21:25:31 <ehird> And he is attached to a chain.
21:25:41 <ehird> I am currently waiting finalisation of the deal.
21:26:23 <Deewiant> So it's not necessarily a done deal
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21:26:47 <ehird> augur: You know, I'd take a prescriptivist over your uncouth writings.
21:27:26 <augur> youre still funny :)
21:27:48 <ehird> i hear that funniness is a pet peeve of a robot.
21:28:35 <augur> youve heard wrong sir!
21:32:37 <ehird> I like how Safari 4.0.3's URL completion is instant instead of delayed.
21:40:21 <AnMaster> <augur> ehird youre funny <-- youre?
21:40:32 <ehird> augur abstains from punctuation.
21:40:54 <AnMaster> ehird, easy to disprove that statement: "<augur> youve heard wrong sir!" there is a "!" there
21:41:09 <AnMaster> it could have been a mistake by augur
21:41:18 <Sgeo> augur's ' key is broken
21:41:19 <ehird> 333333322222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222225555255555555555555555555555555555555555555555522222222222552222222222222222222222222222222002062222222222225222222222222222222222222222222222222222255555552222222255555588888885555555555555552555555555555555555
21:41:21 <augur> i use punctuation sporadically.
21:41:35 <augur> on and off, when i feel like it
21:41:35 <AnMaster> augur, would you write that way outside IRC?
21:41:42 <augur> often for disambiguating purposes
21:41:54 <AnMaster> augur, "on and off, when i feel like it" <-- remove that comma, or else! ;P
21:42:03 <ehird> 5555555555555000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000055556000000000000000000052222222222225222232123123231315645642222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222555555555555555555222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222255555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555
21:42:03 <ehird> 5555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555522222225555555555555555555555555555555555555554666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666665555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555
21:42:05 <augur> for instance, i try much to disambiguate "we are" we're from "be+PST" were
21:42:12 <Sgeo> ehird, what's with the number spam?
21:44:37 <Deewiant> 5'+'=1a'@*+'Ke'@f4+**+'Ke'@'e8'@*+**+*****
21:44:58 <ehird> 854444444444444444444444444444444444446666664522222222558888888888888888888885666555555555555555522222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222220002005555555555555555555555555555 yay
21:48:26 <ehird> 566655556632222222220220022222222222222 :(
21:48:39 <Deewiant> 'c2d'Of2+738*+'_4'@f2+**+"?7@/"6'@*+';39'@**+'q'`9'#6'@:**+**+'%4'@"9^@"*+"C2!"8**+***+*****+*******
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21:52:37 <Asztal> !haskell logBase 10 256
21:55:45 <ehird> 12312312312312312323123
21:56:00 <Deewiant> '/f4+'!ad'@**+f'h2'@f4+";#@"738*+**+d9"@}&"+**+*****+***
22:00:59 <AnMaster> wow how did I manage that. Python hung and only responded to SIGKILL...
22:06:24 <SimonRC> Deewiant: what is that line noise?
22:06:41 * SimonRC tries to figure out the syntax
22:06:43 <Deewiant> Funge-98 for the aforementioned integer
22:07:28 <Deewiant> Allowing ASCII character/string constants to get some values in less space.
22:07:41 <SimonRC> well, before that point I have figured out it was a postfix language, but I thought * must be "apply"
22:12:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, even I couldn't tell for sure that actually was befunge98. After all, it is hard to tell, what with all printable chars below ASCII 127 being mapped
22:13:07 <Deewiant> Can you think of anything else it could be, off the top of your head?
22:14:03 <ehird> perl line noise jokes, funny, in 1980, almost slightly
22:15:07 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:20:09 <AnMaster> <ehird> diaf <-- somehow I read that as '"die in a fucking" ... wait what? something is missing here... ...oh *fire*'
22:20:30 <ehird> Die in a fucking: die in an instance of sexual intercourse.
22:24:08 -!- adam_d has joined.
22:29:09 * Sgeo is glad that either no one saw, or no one cares, that he yes | write $someone
22:29:36 <ehird> that sentence made even less sense than your usual fare.
22:29:47 <ehird> did you start typing another at the end?
22:30:04 <Sgeo> Someone in my class write'd stuff to me, so I jokingly `yes | write em` (where em is this person's username)
22:30:07 <ehird> "that he yes | write $someone"
22:30:26 <Deewiant> ehird: He did 'yes | write $someone' where $someone is a username.
22:30:45 <Deewiant> And he also explained it before I did making my message redundant.
22:30:48 <ehird> anyway, uh, that's stupid
22:33:08 <Warrigal> AnMaster: "die in a fucking" is a complete sentence. >.>
22:33:31 <AnMaster> depressing comment from python source
22:33:37 <ehird> I wonder what that >.> is supposed to represent; "and I have been known to do it!"?
22:33:38 <AnMaster> /* This has no reason to be in this file except that adding new files is a
22:34:06 <AnMaster> but they switched didn't they?
22:34:26 <Sgeo> Oh, the interpreter's source. I was wondering, since /* */ isn't exactly Python
22:34:49 <ehird> AnMaster: yes... later on
22:34:49 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Page closed").
22:35:05 <Sgeo> Maybe I should read that stuff
22:35:14 <Sgeo> Learn a bit of C, and how interpreters work
22:35:27 <ehird> Your brain might break.
22:35:41 <AnMaster> Python interpreter source is not a good place to learn C
22:35:48 <ehird> I wonder if I'm implanting future suicidal tendencies in Sgeo.
22:35:54 <ehird> That would be fun. Also horrific, but fun.
22:35:56 <AnMaster> what with the rather horrible and macro-rich C that is used.
22:36:24 <AnMaster> yes it does the job, no it isn't pretty.
22:36:41 <ehird> god, the tenkeyless filcos are so pretty
22:36:47 <ehird> they look like something out of NeXT
22:36:50 <AnMaster> ehird, why the name tenkeyless?
22:37:00 <ehird> Because they lack the numpads.
22:37:16 <Sgeo> ehird, I don't take what you say so personally that it would cause me to hurt myself
22:37:18 <AnMaster> PyTypeObject PyDictProxy_Type = {
22:37:18 <AnMaster> PyVarObject_HEAD_INIT(&PyType_Type, 0)
22:37:23 <ehird> http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2730&stc=1&d=1245452778; bottom one is filco tenkeyless
22:37:28 <AnMaster> initialising part of the struct using a macro
22:37:38 <ehird> http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87meb
22:37:46 <ehird> Bonus: Blank keys, http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87mcnpek
22:38:00 <ehird> (That blue thing is a capless ESC key)
22:38:14 <ehird> So tiny and yet so clickety-clack!
22:38:38 <AnMaster> <ehird> http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2730&stc=1&d=1245452778; bottom one is filco tenkeyless <-- what is that thing that says "fiskars"? Isn't that some company that makes knives and snow shovels and what not?
22:39:23 <SimonRC> ... I bind the digits to my 10 desktops
22:39:31 <fizzie> Scissors, isn't that what they're most known of.
22:39:46 <ehird> SimonRC: you have problems
22:39:47 <fizzie> (It's a Finnish company.)
22:39:49 <AnMaster> ehird, btw what is "filco"? googling yeilds unrelated stuff
22:39:54 <ehird> AnMaster: Keyboard company.
22:40:15 <ehird> Makes those beautiful keyboards, + a non-tenkeyless version which has a FILCO logo on the actual main board and stuff, making them ugly and suck.
22:40:16 <AnMaster> so not "FILCO Farm & Sport" then
22:40:27 <ehird> (But, you know, good if you like that sort of thing, which also means you're a Nazi.)
22:40:56 <SimonRC> 1 for eclipse, one for spodding, one for email, one for work web browsing, and 1-2 pairs for requirements + implementation desktops
22:41:02 <ehird> Also, a major floor is that solid dome on the Vista key. Solution: Buy $30 whole key replacement set, nab the alt key for the left hand side and the menu key for the right hand side.
22:41:04 <SimonRC> these are double-monitor desktops BTW
22:41:08 <ehird> Identical sizing = voila!
22:41:14 <ehird> Works best with a blank ("Otaku") model of course.
22:41:19 <ehird> SimonRC: Argh! I did that earlier today too.
22:41:25 <ehird> Aslo, your main problem is Eclipse.
22:41:41 <SimonRC> suggest an alternative to Eclipse
22:41:42 <ehird> Your second main problem is that I have no idea what spodding is.
22:42:19 <ehird> SimonRC: Castration, unanesthetized amputation...
22:42:29 <SimonRC> oh, and I have a desktop to hold the music player and the terminal I play quake from
22:42:37 <ehird> SimonRC: Genital torture..
22:42:43 <ehird> You know, all good stand-ins for Eclipse.
22:43:02 <SimonRC> I meant something I can write Java with
22:43:11 <ehird> Right, that's what I meant.
22:43:27 <ehird> Anyway, how small is your monitor?
22:44:11 <SimonRC> well, at work I have a pair of 1280*???
22:44:30 <ehird> Heh... I have one 1680x1050 and consider it small.
22:45:07 <SimonRC> .. while the Chairman and upper management are stuck with old CRTs hooked up to their laptops
22:45:17 <ehird> (Other flaws with Filco boards: staggered keys (of course, this being ubiquitous, you can hardly complain), bit of wasted space in the arrow-keys-and-miscellaneous-shit column due to traditional layout, Bluetooth versions seem scarce (the cord kinda ruins that dinky NeXT look, and Bluetooth keyboards don't lag like radio ones. But then again, it's kinda endearing.). Probably some others.)
22:46:02 <ehird> (I haven't actually used them, due to having not bought mine yet due to it being out of stock.)
22:46:10 <ehird> SimonRC: Look at q, a, z or equivalent dvorak keys (first key in row).
22:46:15 <ehird> See the diagonal pattern?
22:46:29 <ehird> It's a useless artefact of history, and we could do without its crookedness.
22:46:39 <AnMaster> <SimonRC> .. while the Chairman and upper management are stuck with old CRTs hooked up to their laptops <-- how strange
22:47:00 <ehird> AnMaster: What, laptops hooked up to their old CRTs?
22:47:04 <ehird> Like, the old CRT is their computer?
22:47:06 <SimonRC> devs need the computing opwer more, so they get better computers
22:47:08 <ehird> And their laptops provide the I/O devices?
22:48:04 <ehird> I'm so glad CRTs are dead.
22:48:29 <AnMaster> ehird, nah, you still see them every now and then
22:48:31 <ehird> "What about the LEDs - some people were really bugged by the bright blue LEDs on the Filco Brown Cherry board." Whiners. Just disconnect the LEDs!
22:48:38 <SimonRC> they have very deep desks (diagonal corners), and I think they are quite hi-res monitors, so why replace them?
22:48:43 <ehird> But ow — http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2707&stc=1&d=1245359002 — the browns do indeed pack some lightage.
22:49:16 <ehird> That's its two eyes, you know. It's watching you.
22:49:40 <AnMaster> ehird, those have round windows keys
22:49:52 <ehird> Yes, with a solid dome.
22:50:07 <ehird> So get a replacement set, and use the alt key for the left side one and the menu key for the right.
22:50:07 <ehird> Same sizes == voila!
22:50:08 <AnMaster> ehird, trust me, they are horrible to type on
22:50:18 <ehird> I've used them. I'm detailing a solution, so STFU.
22:50:31 <ehird> (Works best on the blank ("Otaku") boards, of course, since then they're indistinguishable.)
22:50:44 <ehird> Admittedly the replacement sets cost $30, but I'm that adamant about These Things.
22:51:08 <Gregor> https://codu.org/projects/gjs/hg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/test.js
22:51:20 <ehird> You continue to hit new points of pointlessosity!
22:51:36 <ehird> (Side note: pointlessosity. Best word ever, or GREATEST word ever?)
22:52:50 <ehird> Anyway, depending on how Deewiant likes his browns I might get them + two otaku replacement keycaps (one to blank it, the other to provide the alt/menu keys to dud out the windows keys). Pricey, but less pricey than the time it'd take to wait for the blues to get back in stock.
22:53:15 <Sgeo> http://normish.org/sgeo/quotes.txt
22:53:19 <ehird> (Brown = tactile (rebounds), no click sound (sound comes from bottoming out). Blue = tactile, click sound. Brown requires 5 grams less force to activate.)
22:53:37 <ehird> Sgeo: What a waste of time :P
22:54:02 * Sgeo just needs to figure out crontab
22:54:36 <ehird> Crontab is like a 30-second job to figure out every time I use it because I don't care enough to remember it. Do you not know about manpages or something?
22:55:04 <SimonRC> I just can't see the word "Otaku" without thinking of (adverts maybe NSFW!) http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Otaku
22:55:22 <ehird> AnMaster: Meaning?
22:55:36 <AnMaster> ehird, it won't be followed by anything
22:55:41 <ehird> AnMaster: "Look at all that fuel and money you're wasting getting a whole replacement set"?
22:55:47 <ehird> I AM YOUNG AND CAVALIER
22:56:01 <ehird> SimonRC: Yes, well, that's the implication innit.
22:56:12 <ehird> Or rather, the company as asian and only uber-nerds want black keycaps.
22:56:30 <ehird> Add in some social isolation and the company location and you're close enough to otaku so what the fuck, let's just brand the keyboards that way!
22:56:32 <AnMaster> ehird, btw what was that about the bunny before?
22:57:03 <ehird> Nothing, AnMaster.
22:57:30 <ehird> Well. That's your problem.
22:57:45 <Sgeo> Ok, quotes.txt should update every 30 minutes
22:58:10 <ehird> We don't add quotes every 30 minutes, Sgeo.
22:58:27 * Sgeo doesn't like lag time
22:59:39 <ehird> 30 minutes is a pretty long lag time for that, then.
23:00:33 <Sgeo> I don't want to tax Gregor's server
23:00:49 <AnMaster> um what about a passive daemon?
23:00:58 <Gregor> If you want to set up an hg server, I could set it up to push to you.
23:00:59 <AnMaster> with notification rather than polling
23:01:34 <Sgeo> How easy/difficult would that be?
23:01:41 <ehird> Electricity should be polling-based; then our infrastructure would be.
23:01:54 <Gregor> Sgeo: Depends on how much experience you have.
23:02:00 <AnMaster> Gregor, are those hackego quotes?
23:02:06 <AnMaster> if so, where the hell is some of those from
23:02:15 <Sgeo> AnMaster, Sine
23:02:17 <AnMaster> pretty sure not all of those are from in here
23:02:39 <Warrigal> Doesn't Aftran frequent this channel? :-P
23:02:51 <ehird> Miya came here once or twice.
23:03:39 <Sgeo> Warrigal's trying to bring someone in here
23:03:40 <AnMaster> ehird, how insane in python is it to delay calling __init__ of the object you inherit from until later. As in, not in from your own __init__ but from somewhere else.
23:03:59 <ehird> AnMaster: Uh, Java does that too.
23:04:01 <ehird> C++ as well I think.
23:04:22 <AnMaster> ehird, well I meant... *not call parent constructor in your own constructor*
23:04:23 <ehird> AnMaster: You have to call your superclass' __init__ inside your own.
23:04:33 <ehird> If you don't you are retarded and should be shot with a poker.
23:04:42 <AnMaster> ehird, I need to do it in another thread though
23:05:00 <AnMaster> ehird, not my code originally, just trying to fix it
23:06:21 -!- adam_d has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:06:34 <Sgeo> Hm, I don't see how to make crontab run something every minute, without spec... wait, * for all would work, I guess
23:06:39 <Sgeo> What if I wanted every other minute?
23:06:52 <SimonRC> there is a syntax for "only odd numbers" and the like
23:07:07 <ehird> Normish is gonna love you.
23:07:19 <Gregor> You really ought to set up an hg server :P
23:07:34 <Sgeo> Ok, how do I go about doing that?
23:07:41 <Gregor> 1) Make sure hg is installed.
23:08:02 <Sgeo> I'm pretty sure it's not
23:08:11 <Gregor> 2) Put hgweb.cgi (customized properly) somewhere with a rel---
23:08:14 <Gregor> Well then you're fekked.
23:08:18 <ehird> "Is /etc an ok place to do that?"
23:08:29 <Sgeo> ehird, I'm not an idiot
23:08:40 <Sgeo> Everything would be in a subdirectory of my home directory
23:08:50 <ehird> "~/.emacs.d/ is fine right?"
23:11:15 <AnMaster> ehird, I ran into this: http://sprunge.us/QWgh <-- what the hell does that python syntax do.
23:11:44 <AnMaster> ehird, well what makes the "for" at the end bit
23:11:59 <AnMaster> it is some sort of list comperhension?
23:12:02 <ehird> Umm... you really shouldn't be maintaining Python code if you don't know about list comprehensions.
23:12:09 <ehird> Like, stop. Now. rtft.
23:12:17 <Gregor> SpiderMonkey is FRIGGIN' HUGE.
23:12:31 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm not "maintaining" it, just trying to understand it.,
23:12:33 <Gregor> Is V8 smaller? As easy to use?
23:12:34 <ehird> It's like an ENERGY DRINK for your NADS^WADS^WAPPLICATIONS
23:12:48 <ehird> And zzoooooooooooooooom like a billion times faster.
23:12:58 <ehird> Also x86 only! Ha ha other processors suck flaming cocks.
23:13:05 <ehird> AnMaster: Change it to an inline if if you can.
23:13:21 <ehird> or/and is inscrutable and fails if foo can be false in (... or foo)
23:13:40 <ehird> 'wall' if y in (0,7) else x in (0,7)
23:13:54 <ehird> (Better to use immutable tuples for those ins, I think)
23:13:59 <Sgeo> I must be misreading it. It will always be wall
23:14:03 <ehird> Same with the random.choice
23:14:07 <ehird> AnMaster: *are; yes.
23:14:13 <ehird> Because they're expressions, not statements.
23:14:24 <Gregor> ehird: Oh yeah, x86-only. I remember going through engines and not choosing V8 for some reason.
23:14:28 <AnMaster> ehird, and that is no issue due to working with 3.1
23:14:33 <ehird> Gregor: Ehh, who cares?
23:14:42 <ehird> Gregor: Fastest in existence, lightweight, simple
23:14:52 <ehird> Gregor: Yeah, uh, it supports _64.
23:15:09 <ehird> Chromium has a 64-bit version.
23:15:14 <ehird> Maybe it runs the code as 32-bit there. Who cares, though?
23:15:27 <ehird> Are these silly JS toys going to be accessing over 4GiB of RAM?
23:16:18 <Gregor> They might be better-compiled with more registers :P
23:16:19 <ehird> Besides, speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.
23:16:31 <ehird> SpiderMonkey is like the slowest thing that was ever slow in slowland.
23:16:43 <ehird> And hogging. And bloated. And complex and bleaaaaaaaargh. Basically it's Mozilla :P
23:16:51 <AnMaster> ehird, in a few years I guess considering the current trend in bloated websites the answer will be yes
23:16:57 <SimonRC> ehird: stop confusing me by referring to a differen SM than the one my company makes ;-)
23:17:20 <ehird> SimonRC: I blame me. No wait, I blame your company. :P
23:17:26 * SimonRC recalls the resons why TBL made HTML very non-turing-complete
23:18:12 <ehird> Easy editing for one, I'd assume.
23:18:22 <ehird> Since WorldWideWeb was a WYSIWYG editor, too.
23:18:26 <SimonRC> AnMaster: http://corefiling.com/products/spidermonkey.html
23:18:35 <ehird> He means t he reasons.
23:18:36 <Sgeo> I misread [0,7] as range(0,7)
23:19:00 <ehird> SimonRC: I died and went to enterprise buzzspeak hell.
23:19:09 <ehird> As far as I can tell this SpiderMonkey runs Java on your system and then proceeds to semanticise nothing.
23:19:27 <AnMaster> SimonRC, I meant "* SimonRC recalls the resons why TBL made HTML very non-turing-complete"
23:19:37 <SimonRC> these are all technical terms
23:19:47 <ehird> "Intuitive, consistent user interface" // suuure
23:19:54 <ehird> AnMaster: It's the SpiderMonkey his company makes.
23:19:59 <ehird> As opposed to the JS engine we were talking about.
23:20:01 <SimonRC> AnMaster: that was supposed to be for ehird , oops
23:20:09 <ehird> [23:16] SimonRC: ehird: stop confusing me by referring to a differen SM than the one my company makes ;-)
23:20:16 <Gregor> Incidentally, there's tracemonkey.
23:20:36 <ehird> Gregor: Still slow.
23:20:39 <ehird> All the other properties remain.
23:20:44 <SimonRC> AnMaster: I don't have Weaving The Web to hand, but ISTR one of the main ones was that web pages shouldn't be able to loop forever or crash
23:20:49 <ehird> SimonRC: how much does the Enterprise edition actually cost?
23:20:53 <ehird> it's "contact us for quote"
23:21:26 <ehird> 5 bajillion megabucks?
23:22:00 <AnMaster> SimonRC, so what the hell is that buzzwordridden page actually about
23:22:11 <ehird> In all fairness, AnMaster,
23:22:33 <ehird> "So what the hell is that buzzwordridden page titled Python's Object Model actually about"
23:22:38 <ehird> "In normal language, I'm not a programmer"
23:22:43 <ehird> Unreasonable, right?
23:23:09 <AnMaster> ehird, true I guess. Still what about a simplification.
23:23:30 <AnMaster> plus you said "<ehird> SimonRC: I died and went to enterprise buzzspeak hell." above :P
23:23:40 <ehird> s/Python's Object Model/High-speed tensor wave-particle reactions in a quantum vacuum 4-space with N2x5R5 symmetry/
23:23:43 <Sgeo> ehird, what's wrong with Joel's articles?
23:23:44 <SimonRC> AnMaster: it is a program for editing XBRL taxonomies, which define what stuff you can have in an XBRL document, which is a standardised way of recording accounts and things.
23:23:45 <ehird> s/programmer/physicist/
23:23:53 <ehird> AnMaster: Yes, jokingly
23:24:05 <ehird> SimonRC: so basically it edits database schemas.
23:24:05 <AnMaster> SimonRC, ah. accounts as in user accounts?
23:24:38 <ehird> "what stuff you can have" = valid components and facets of the components of an entry
23:24:47 <ehird> recording accounts and things = list of entries
23:25:14 <AnMaster> ehird, no, XRBL metaschema taxonomg[sic from the editions table on that page]
23:25:16 * pikhq just learned CMake.
23:25:25 <SimonRC> I don't knoe the details; I don't work on that product.
23:25:39 <ehird> pikhq: But it's abominable.
23:25:52 <pikhq> Cmake 2.6 seems to not have much that's abominable.
23:26:00 <AnMaster> pikhq, you mean 2.6.3 and later
23:26:03 <pikhq> AnMaster: Not bad.
23:26:13 <AnMaster> because if didn't support () inside before 2.6.3
23:26:21 <ehird> pikhq: I prescribe 43.57floz of Haskellin a day, take for seven weeks.
23:26:34 <ehird> Please report on whether your mental anomalies subside by then.
23:26:43 <pikhq> ehird: I should be more specific: not bad *for a C build system*.
23:26:49 <AnMaster> ehird, hey, I could do this for OS X too :P
23:26:51 <ehird> Have you SEEN the internals, pikhq?
23:27:01 <ehird> RUN! RUN! FIRE AND BRIMSTONE! SAME MAKERS WHO MADE A GCC TO XML THING!
23:27:08 <AnMaster> ehird, please read python internals before you mention that again :P
23:27:11 <ehird> AnMaster: Good luck!
23:27:18 <ehird> Also, Python is a relatively sane bytecode VM.
23:27:19 <Sgeo> What does that even MEAN?
23:27:27 <ehird> gcc parse tree fuck... thingie
23:27:39 <AnMaster> Sgeo, well it dumps the parse tree as XML iirc
23:28:05 <Sgeo> So humans interested in learning can learn, or is it meant to have a "useful" purpose?
23:28:21 <AnMaster> Sgeo, that isn't human readable
23:28:28 <pikhq> ehird: You do realise that the only notable alternative is a god-awful kludge of Make, shell, and M4, right?
23:28:38 <AnMaster> besides, gcc can already dump to a more readable format
23:28:42 <ehird> pikhq: Well, SCon— no, wait, SCons sucks.
23:29:11 <Sgeo> So what is the point, exactly?
23:29:31 <ehird> pikhq: Just write it in fucking Make, it's horrific but just keep it simple and deal with the bullshit... it's less than what autotools piles on you. Have a config.mk for user-definable things, you know, it's just like INI files. And then if you must, a simple shell-based detector for certain OS features.
23:29:37 <ehird> (That writes out a platform.mk, or whatever.)
23:30:02 <pikhq> ehird: But doing a proper makefile is quite a bit more work...
23:30:06 <AnMaster> ehird, a lot of work I see no reason to spend when there is something that can do this a lot faster for me
23:30:25 <AnMaster> with all the features like make clean working automagically
23:30:28 <pikhq> (I have done this same damned project using straight make, Cmake, and Autotools.)
23:30:33 <ehird> I've seen the size of cfunge's cmake configuration files... it is absolutely not a simpler, smaller solution.
23:30:36 * SimonRC has read some of the Nethack code
23:30:48 <AnMaster> <ehird> I've seen the size of cfunge's cmake configuration files... it is absolutely not a simpler, smaller solution. <-- that may not be representative
23:30:55 <pikhq> In order of preference: Cmake, make, and Autotools.
23:31:01 <ehird> AnMaster: I have also read other projects.
23:31:17 <ehird> KDE is so fucked up I'm not even going to bother looking at it.
23:31:20 <pikhq> Make is annoying. Cmake is decent. Autotools is... awful.
23:31:33 <pikhq> Yeah, KDE really fails at build-systems.
23:31:54 <SimonRC> huge shell script that makes really nasty makefile, AFAICT
23:32:19 <ehird> The shit that cmake and autotools hand to you... and you get to use a language specific to that system, not widely understood... a dependency, in the case of cmake, on cmake. Plus code complexity, no real shortening for non-trivial stuff over a simple, clean Makefile + a simple shell script...
23:32:26 <ehird> All a bunch of crap because nobody thinks of anything else.
23:32:33 <ehird> The Real Solution is to stop using C, of course. :P
23:32:50 <AnMaster> SimonRC, there is no .sh on it
23:32:53 <SimonRC> it is the first part of "./configure.sh ; make ; make install"
23:33:10 <AnMaster> SimonRC, what OS have you been using...
23:33:22 <pikhq> ehird: Definitely the proper solution.
23:33:40 <pikhq> Pity that we tend to use OSes that assume much C.
23:33:44 <SimonRC> I saw it while compiling ghc I think
23:33:46 <AnMaster> SimonRC, not *nix recently I guess
23:34:07 <ehird> "irssi v0.8.10-rc5 - running on Linux x86_64"
23:34:27 <AnMaster> that is worse than even autotools
23:34:41 <AnMaster> ehird, it's worse than autotools
23:34:46 <ehird> http://olsner.se/2008/03/29/ant-sucks/ pretty much covers it
23:34:51 <AnMaster> at least autotool *does the job*
23:34:55 <ehird> ant doesn't bother to do any of the things that make a build system useful
23:34:56 <SimonRC> now WTF does it say x86_64
23:34:59 <ehird> just not at all, it just omits them
23:35:02 <SimonRC> I didn;t think this was a 64-bit system
23:35:07 <ehird> you get to deal with its quirks and verbosities!
23:35:09 <ehird> shweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
23:35:16 <ehird> schweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
23:35:21 <ehird> wow it did aligned.
23:35:45 <AnMaster> due to you dropping one char and adding another
23:35:46 <ehird> proporntional font
23:35:53 <ehird> i didn't do it intentionallly
23:36:00 <ehird> i just held down e for what seemed like a good time
23:36:06 <ehird> i must be an autistic savant
23:36:08 <SimonRC> ant is targeted at typical Java programmers and has the syntax of XML
23:36:22 <AnMaster> SimonRC, it doesn't even do proper rebuilds
23:36:24 <olsner> ehird: omg I got linked
23:36:32 <SimonRC> AnMaster: we use some other stuff with it
23:36:44 <AnMaster> SimonRC, what then is the point of ant at all
23:36:45 <ehird> olsner: i know right! you haven't posted anything since july 2008, you should do something about that. it's illegal not to
23:36:47 <SimonRC> it works well for us at the moment
23:36:48 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:36:49 <ehird> AnMaster: stupidity
23:37:16 <olsner> ehird: yeah... I have a vague plan to post something at some point though
23:37:20 <pikhq> ... Holy fuck. Ant doesn't even do rebuilds?
23:37:28 <pikhq> What's the advantage over a shell script, exactly?
23:37:43 <ehird> pikhq: Shell script? Fuck that shit! X! M! L!
23:37:49 <pikhq> ehird: So, there isn't one.
23:37:59 <pikhq> Freaking Java programmers.
23:38:01 <olsner> pikhq: the rebuild is about the second thing you build into an ant script... since it doesn't do dependencies, you never get things properly built
23:38:06 <oerjan> AnMaster: read it hours ago, now if i could just remember it...
23:38:06 <SimonRC> ant handles multiple configurations?
23:38:14 <olsner> ant rebuild! problem solved :(
23:38:15 <ehird> Ooh ooh, but you can have multiple targets, SO IT IS ONLY LIKE TWICE AS LONG AS A CASE...ESAC ON $1
23:38:35 <ehird> i love darwin's expression in the last panel
23:38:46 <SimonRC> ant is portable between unix and windows?
23:39:04 <olsner> kind of, but so is bash
23:39:14 <ehird> bash is portable to cygwin
23:39:16 <ehird> which doesn't count
23:39:34 <oerjan> ehird: dammit i thought i was going to get away with not looking it up again
23:39:39 <Sgeo> Somewhat relevant: http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/4361/99557.aspx
23:39:56 <olsner> hmm, let's say this: ant is about equally useless on both windows and unix
23:41:01 <Sgeo> Got mercurial installed on normish, Gregor
23:41:17 <ehird> olsner: Portable uselessness!
23:41:40 <Gregor> Sgeo: Next step: Choose your hg directory, and hg init there.
23:42:07 <oerjan> ""Monkey's uncle" dates to before 1847, when it appears as the name of a character in a farce played in London . This precedes the publication in 1859 of Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species. "I'll be a monkey's uncle" dates from after 1926, the date of the widely publicized Scopes Trial in the United States, where the term first appears. It appears in print starting in the 1930s."
23:43:20 <ehird> [23:42] pikhq: Sgeo Ploffing?
23:43:21 <ehird> [23:42] Gregor: pikhq: Unrelated.
23:43:21 <ehird> [23:43] Sgeo: Done
23:43:27 <ehird> I scratched my head at those three lines.
23:43:38 <ehird> What does it all mean, an army of sneezing wangs stalks my nightmare.
23:43:53 <pikhq> "Ploffing" in this context means "working on Plof".
23:43:57 <Gregor> Sgeo: Then find hgweb.cgi (it's probably installed somewhere, and it's all over the webernets) and put that into some web-accessible cgi dir.
23:44:00 <pikhq> Which is in a Mercurial repo.
23:44:03 <ehird> Yes. I figured that out after I realised they were unconnected as a whole.
23:44:23 <Sgeo> I don't know if normish has a web-accessible cgi dir
23:44:33 <Sgeo> What is hgweb.cgi for, anyway>?
23:45:10 <ehird> UGH, Gregor. Your use of the... VERNACULAR.
23:45:48 <Gregor> Sgeo: It's somewhere to push the hg repo to via http. Otherwise you'll need to either run a server or give me ssh access.
23:47:17 <Sgeo> AddHandler cgi-script .cgi
23:47:52 <Gregor> Sgeo: Then you just have to make an htpasswd file with some predetermined username and password, and a short .htaccess file I'll send you via PM
23:48:31 * ehird whimsically designs the loudest, most clicky keyboard ever
23:48:57 <Sgeo> I know zilch about Apache
23:49:07 <ehird> Gregor: Congrats, Sgeo just wasted your time.
23:49:27 <Sgeo> Should I look up how to makie an htpasswd, or is there a tool for that
23:49:56 <Gregor> htpasswd -c .../bleh.htpasswd <username>
23:58:37 <ehird> http://tagloot.com/
23:58:42 <ehird> Keyboard and mouse made out of actual bamboo.
23:58:50 <ehird> Yes, including the keycaps.
23:59:46 <ehird> "Keys are made of plastic, however they are colored to give you the impression that they are made of bamboo"