00:00:09 <alise> coppro: quick say something
00:01:07 -!- ineiros_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:01:44 <alise> coppro: ok, how about this: ping me in three seconds?
00:02:03 <alise> ok, has to be stornger
00:02:12 <alise> (I'm making X-Chat Suck Less.)
00:02:14 -!- distant_figure has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:02:40 <alise> Sgeo_: again! again!
00:02:55 <Sgeo_> alise, pong is a game
00:02:57 -!- ineiros_ has joined.
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00:04:38 <alise> Sgeo_: let's play aGAIN! that would be FUN!
00:05:17 <alise> Sgeo_: YOU HAVE TO PING ME THE ROPE
00:05:58 <alise> haha that was funny. i am hilarious
00:06:44 <Sgeo_> I am suddenly aware that I failed to include paddles
00:06:56 <Sgeo_> Or, whatever those paddle things are called, if they had names
00:07:59 -!- nooga_ has joined.
00:08:36 <alise> i can't seem to find the colour of the division line...
00:10:09 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:10:15 <Sgeo_> Yes, I know what you meant, I think
00:10:17 <alise> grr, i dunno if it's configurable
00:10:25 <alise> i'm making xchat look less horrific
00:13:17 <fungot> alise: i should really do c, do d" as " if(foo) a; b; else c; d;", but it's hard to let go of my ankle, willya
00:13:28 <alise> fungot: babble again
00:13:28 <fungot> alise: do not mention that io does not fnord fnord
00:13:30 <alise> fungot: babble again
00:13:31 <fungot> alise: xtofius drscheme is the ide thingy for) is one instruction: 0 days 4 hours 23 mins 39 secs signon: thu sep 14 fnord colin kernel: bttv0: using: fnord
00:13:40 <alise> fungot: babble again
00:13:43 <alise> fungot: babble again
00:14:33 <alise> "Want to pack JS and CSS really well? Convert it to a PNG and unpack it via Canvas"
00:14:34 <alise> there are no words
00:14:52 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Connection reset by peer review).
00:14:59 -!- alise has joined.
00:15:10 <alise> Sgeo_: make fungot babble plz
00:18:16 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
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00:19:55 <fungot> Sgeo_: oh well, ( 1)...)
00:20:00 <fungot> alise: ( catch throw, by the way, fnord
00:20:01 <fungot> alise: i thought about 2, but it is not important anymore.)
00:20:02 <fungot> alise: ( and yes, it did nothing when i hit submit
00:20:03 <fungot> alise: if i have a romanian friend who just graduated and his homepage was also at ccs.neu.edu. thanks
00:20:18 <Sgeo_> What style is it on?
00:20:18 -!- zeotrope_ has joined.
00:20:22 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
00:20:33 <Sgeo_> Lisp should be a style
00:20:50 -!- zeotrope has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:20:52 <Sgeo_> (define name "lisp")
00:21:06 <Sgeo_> I forgot the syntax for string literals in Scheme
00:21:25 <Sgeo_> ...So, what's wrong?
00:21:45 <Sgeo_> I thought Scheme is a Lisp
00:22:08 <alise> It's quite a way away from the other languages of the Lisp tradition.
00:22:26 <alise> god, I may just have to write my own IRC client, god help me.
00:22:34 <Sgeo_> alise, I like defaults
00:23:04 <Sgeo_> I don't like customizing stuff
00:23:12 <Sgeo_> Although I did switch the font to Dejavu Sans Mono
00:23:22 <alise> why are you telling me this?
00:23:37 <Sgeo_> Thought it would give you a headache. It didn't.
00:24:29 <Sgeo_> Because you... I don't know
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00:26:18 <alise> urgh, i wish there was a decent text-rendering library
00:26:26 <alise> like Pango but with less suckery?
00:26:31 <alise> pango sucks at jusified text i think
00:26:33 -!- chickenzilla has joined.
00:26:38 <alise> pikhq: is that true?
00:26:52 <Sgeo_> Dear Chrome: Stop ignoring random input!
00:27:20 <Sgeo_> Sometimes it will ignore context menu clicks
00:27:42 <Sgeo_> Sometimes it will fail to recognize that I typed something into the address bar
00:28:36 <pikhq> alise: Justified text? Yeah, everything but TeX sucks at justified text.
00:28:51 <alise> pikhq: but is Pango ok at it, or?
00:29:00 <alise> also, yeah, Bitstream Charter is amazing; i can confirm
00:32:38 <Sgeo_> Falcon has tabular computing!
00:32:45 * Sgeo_ sends alise a falcon
00:35:23 <pikhq> Hmm. The Gameboy has what amounts to an 8080 in it...
00:35:31 <pikhq> One could port CPM to it.
00:35:32 <alise> pikhq: i have what amounts to a broken table
00:36:09 <alise> great now it's broken the wrong way
01:13:32 <alise> @exp $f 0 := '(x => x)
01:13:32 <alise> @exp $f n := '(x => f $(exp f (n-1)))
01:13:37 <alise> WHAT'S THAT MACROS OH MY
01:14:55 <alise> @exp : ast(a -> a) -> nat -> ast(a -> a)
01:14:55 <alise> @exp $f 0 := '(x => x)
01:14:56 <alise> @exp $f n := '(x => f $(exp f (n-1)))
01:16:40 <alise> exp succ 3 == (x => succ (succ (succ x))))
01:17:03 * Sgeo_ CAPSLOCKS BY ACCIDENT
01:24:01 <alise> OH ACCIDENTAL CAPSLOCK ENVELOPED
01:29:09 <alise> Ugh! I need asyncore.
01:29:10 <alise> Sgeo_: make it god
01:29:33 <Sgeo_> Just because I used asyncore for something once...
01:30:14 <Sgeo_> a) This computer professor sent us word documents
01:30:26 <Sgeo_> b) for a class I was enrolled in several years ago
01:31:14 <Sgeo_> I think it's a broken form email
01:31:45 <Sgeo_> The attached document is about the correct class
01:32:46 <Sgeo_> Just got another email correcting it
01:32:55 <Sgeo_> alise, anyways, do you want to see my code?
01:35:50 <Sgeo_> Let's see if I can find it
01:36:12 <Sgeo_> Urgh, it's on my old computer
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01:42:30 <SgeoN1> Ancient Firefox just crashed
01:44:39 <alise> Sgeo_: http://pastie.org/1108844.txt?key=klmt98oegcgnkpdzdufxdq make this less insanely indented
01:46:07 <SgeoN1> My code is not for ircadmin, but for a different chat protocol
01:46:37 <alise> ACTIVE WORLDS CHAT
01:47:00 <alise> haver is kinda shit
01:47:04 <alise> it doesn't fix any of irc's actual problems
01:47:56 <SgeoN1> Also, an AW chat bot that didn't use the sdk would probably break some tos
01:49:17 <Sgeo_> SgeoN1 is obviously an imposter
01:49:31 <alise> wow asyncore.loop is retarded
01:49:43 <alise> why is the map a dictionary instead of a list
01:49:46 <alise> who knows? WHO THE FUCK KNOWS? HAHAHAHA
01:50:16 <Sgeo_> Let me download the fucking att.. there we go
01:51:25 <Sgeo_> raw_chat.py: http://pastie.org/private/4gmcayohanftkdt1tymzq
01:51:53 <Sgeo_> haverchat.py: http://pastie.org/private/26wqwowsye05pum4ftztg
01:52:13 -!- nooga_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:52:49 <Sgeo_> pyhaver.py, which doesn't use haverchat.py (hence nor raw_chat.py), but is a bit more tested: http://pastie.org/private/yuyd220kww6n5zlmvsguhw
01:52:54 <alise> asyncore != asynchat
01:53:17 <Sgeo_> asynchat requires direct use of asyncore
01:53:48 <alise> but only one function#
01:54:18 * Sgeo_ reads his code and decides alise has a point
01:56:23 <Sgeo_> May I ask why you need asyncore?
01:56:31 <Sgeo_> I mean, for non-asynchat reasons?
01:56:43 <alise> because asynchat sucks
01:56:49 <alise> consider e.g. multiple terminators
02:02:08 <Vorpal> I wonder how many years it take until ipv4 is optional in the linux kernel? Presumably it will die out some day, and turn into a "unless you know you want this, you don't" thing
02:02:41 <alise> ipv6 is a non-starter
02:02:50 <alise> what will happen is mass NATing
02:02:52 <alise> in fact it is happening already
02:02:59 <alise> whole ISPs on one NAT will happen soon enough
02:03:48 <Vorpal> alise, that would be a disaster for many people
02:04:04 <alise> ISPs have been fucking everything up for years
02:04:11 <alise> aren't you planning for that by now?
02:04:11 <Vorpal> alise, I need to be able to ssh home
02:04:20 <Vorpal> alise, well I do have an ipv6 tunnel at home
02:04:41 <Sgeo_> alise, you're a pessimist?
02:04:55 <Vorpal> alise, anyway we will run out of nat soon too... when data centers fail to allocate new ips
02:05:01 <Vorpal> and then ipv6 will be forced
02:05:33 <Vorpal> so yeah nating won't solve the issue
02:05:36 <Sgeo_> Well, all new application protocols will just have to mention the host name
02:06:08 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, I do think, and hope, ipv6 will be forced into use
02:06:17 <Vorpal> at most nating will delay it 2-3 years
02:06:32 <alise> <Sgeo_> alise, you're a pessimist?
02:06:45 <alise> no, i'm extrapolating based on existing trends and the unlikelihood of ipv6 adoption
02:06:58 <alise> plus a knowledge of how little ISPs care about customers
02:07:07 <alise> Vorpal: not if you start NATing entire countries
02:07:13 <Vorpal> alise, all major *OS*es support ipv6 out of box now though
02:07:21 <alise> that ISP infrastructure is not getting replaced
02:07:26 <Sgeo_> Surely ISPs have corporate customers
02:07:31 <alise> those old programs aren't getting updated
02:07:36 <alise> Sgeo_: indeed; they don't care either
02:07:50 <alise> Vorpal: btw, the opinions I am expressing are exactly identical to the ones ais523 expressed only days ago on this matter.
02:08:07 <Sgeo_> I'm going to go cry somewhere
02:13:58 <alise> i'm just gonna use http://docs.python.org/library/select.html
02:13:59 <alise> instead of asyncore
02:15:09 <Sgeo_> Hey, considering that you're working with sockets instead of pipes, your client can be Win32-compatible
02:15:52 <alise> Sgeo_: um. asyncore uses select()
02:16:04 <alise> Note File objects on Windows are not acceptable, but sockets are. On Windows, the underlying select() function is provided by the WinSock library, and does not handle file descriptors that don’t originate from WinSock.
02:16:05 <Sgeo_> alise, on sockets, I assume
02:16:11 <alise> who said i would use pipes
02:16:17 <alise> anyway, i will be using pipes at some point
02:16:20 <alise> for external commands
02:16:24 <alise> and i have 0 interest in windows compatibility
02:16:41 <Sgeo_> PSOX had to change its spec to avoid select to maintain theoretical Windows compatibility
02:17:05 <Vorpal> <alise> and i have 0 interest in windows compatibility <--- wait, didn't you say cfunge was stupid because it didn't support windows at one point
02:17:08 <alise> Sgeo_: how amazing.
02:17:15 <alise> Vorpal: as part of a larger complaint, probably.
02:17:27 <Sgeo_> Or alise is inconsistent
02:17:33 <alise> or, i just don't remember doing that
02:17:41 <alise> and assume past-me had eir reasons /or/ was trying to piss off Vorpal
02:17:43 <alise> the latter is very likely
02:17:51 <Vorpal> alise, yeah I think you complained about lots of other things that time too
02:18:16 <Vorpal> alise, still it seems a bit strange you have no interest in windows support now
02:19:03 <alise> it worked though didn't it
02:19:08 <Sgeo_> 1! 2! 3! 4! This is how we Vorpal-alise war!
02:19:10 <Vorpal> alise, you should be ashamed of yourself
02:19:29 <Vorpal> alise, and it didn't, if it had worked it would have been me implementing windows support
02:19:39 <Vorpal> alise, it was you who ported it to cygwin, remember?
02:19:49 <Vorpal> and that is hardly windows
02:19:59 <alise> Vorpal: it worked because you still remember
02:20:22 <Vorpal> alise, but then I have a good memory for some things
02:39:35 <Vorpal> challenge: use all meanings of affect and effect in a single sentence that doesn't sound _too_ contrived
02:52:41 <Sgeo_> "All students who have laptops on campus and would like to use the Farmingdale wireless have to have
02:52:41 <Sgeo_> installed the Symantec
02:52:41 <Sgeo_> Endpoint Protection AntiVirus."
02:57:21 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, tell them you have OS X?
02:57:37 <Vorpal> probably works better than saying linux
02:57:46 <Sgeo_> Just asked my professor
02:57:53 <Sgeo_> (Not that e likely knows or cares)
02:58:57 <Sgeo_> http://pastie.org/private/12ac73d3jdksp2djd9mapg
02:59:14 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, hm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symantec_Endpoint_Protection says it exists for linux
02:59:26 <pikhq> Sgeo_: Might I suggest going to a school with a less incompetent IT department?
02:59:41 <Vorpal> seems somewhat intrusive though
03:00:09 <Sgeo_> Laptop hybernating soon
03:00:19 <Sgeo_> pikhq, after I graduate from here
03:00:35 <Sgeo_> Vorpal, yes. Storing the contents of memory on disk
03:00:39 <Sgeo_> So that I might sleep
03:00:42 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, you fail at spelling
03:00:56 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, the word has no y afaik
03:01:03 <pikhq> Sgeo_: Inform them that installing any non-free software would be an unacceptable security risk, and ask for source code.
03:01:09 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, "hibernating" is what you mean
03:03:16 <pikhq> Also, Symantec sucks ass.
03:03:44 <SgeoN1> I'd rather boot into Linux than use Symantec
03:04:07 <pikhq> I'd rather apply nail to eye than use Symantec.
03:04:32 <SgeoN1> Then again, I think my current AV may be broken
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03:20:02 * SgeoN1 vaguely wonders where his dad is
03:32:18 <SgeoN1> In case anyone was worried or otherwise cares: don't be
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03:44:03 <alise> <pikhq> Sgeo_: Inform them that installing any non-free software would be an unacceptable security risk, and ask for source code.
03:44:06 <alise> "act intelligent to retards"
03:45:01 <alise> Vorpal: if you were writing an irc /client/ would you use select() or epoll() :-D
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03:46:39 <pikhq> alise: Okay, okay, fine. Walk through their office with a bulk eraser.
03:49:14 <alise> pikhq: Why is epoll() such a horrific API?
03:50:12 <pikhq> alise: Because fuck you.
03:50:20 <alise> i'll just use asyncore for now.
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04:00:20 <alise> oh right i don't have a handler for that yet
04:00:30 <alise> pikhq: behold my fearsome, entirely useless bot
04:00:38 <alise> it supports multiple servers!
04:01:34 <alise> pikhq: I agree... vejn. Now what does vejn mean?
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04:03:37 <alise> pikhq: Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 244
04:03:45 <alise> This is the most hideously complex IRC-echoer EVER.
04:03:58 <alise> It even loads plugins! Although it does fuck all with those plugins.
04:04:09 <pikhq> alise: That's not bad for getting a TCP/IP connection. :P
04:04:18 <alise> pikhq: Ha, you C programmer. :P
04:04:18 <pikhq> (I hates BSD sockets)
04:04:29 <alise> No BSD sockets here, all crappy crappy asyncore crap!
04:04:33 <pikhq> alise: What langauge?
04:04:45 <alise> It's shit, hooray!
04:05:25 <pikhq> Or, if you can stand the syntax and the typing and the pain, Erlang. :P
04:05:35 <alise> Haskell has several flaws that unfortunately make it unsuitable for botte. However, I /would/ rewrite it in [unnamed language #n].
04:06:05 <SgeoN1> What flaws does Haskell have for these purposes?
04:06:24 <alise> This language features SMP concurrent threads communciating in functionally safe ways, asynchronous everything but with continuations so it's not painful, a sane multiplexer that can do asynchronous socket IO etc. without each component knowing about each other at the core, and a good type system.
04:06:26 <SgeoN1> Vala if you want a compiled language?
04:06:39 <alise> Which actually /would/ make botte a very, very happy project.
04:06:48 <alise> Oh, and code reloading ala Erlang, too.
04:06:52 <alise> Unfortunately, this language does not exist.
04:07:13 <alise> Haskell just plain isn't suitable. :P
04:07:23 <SgeoN1> I never quite learner how code reloading works in Erlang
04:07:23 <pikhq> alise: Okay, you could *do* that in Haskell, but you'd have to write the infrastructure...
04:07:32 <pikhq> At which point you may as well make AliseLang.
04:07:35 <alise> pikhq: Not the good type system!
04:07:43 <alise> And, yeah, it is /theoretically/ possible in Haskell, but bleh.
04:07:47 <pikhq> alise: Okay, yeah, that's hard to extend.
04:07:49 <alise> I wouldn't want to be the one tasked to do it.
04:08:18 <alise> Therefore, I settle with the FFI That Thinks It's a Language; Python.
04:08:33 <SgeoN1> Just write an easy abstraction thing for asyncore
04:08:40 <alise> no, asyncore is shit underneath
04:09:03 <SgeoN1> I'd sleep but I'm hungey
04:09:08 <alise> pikhq: I need code structuring opinions! Should IRCClient handle joining channels on connect and the like, or the Bot that contains it?
04:09:23 <alise> I /think/ the client, since it's client-specific, but in some sense you could see the Bot as the overbearing, slightly creepy father of the clients. Aww.
04:09:34 <alise> The clients will have things like .say(target, message), so...
04:09:39 <alise> But still, I dunno how thick I want them to be.
04:09:43 <alise> I do think they should handle ghosting nicks.
04:09:58 <alise> But then I'm not sure where that leaves the bot, apart from handling and replying to messages... which is actually a pretty big deal I guess.
04:10:22 <SgeoN1> I take it irclib sucks?
04:10:30 <alise> and doesn't solve this problem besides
04:10:40 <pikhq> Not to mention NIH.
04:10:47 <alise> pikhq: To give you a sense of how good I'd like the type system to be: a complete, type-safe encoding of IRC.
04:10:49 <SgeoN1> Why not use Smalltalk?
04:10:52 <alise> Right down to the modes.
04:11:00 <alise> Nothing is a string apart from, well, message bodies.
04:11:05 <pikhq> alise: You could actually do this in Plof.
04:11:08 <alise> pikhq: I started doing this in Haskell but it was Quite Painful.
04:11:11 <alise> Uhh, Plof has no static type system :P
04:11:12 <pikhq> alise: You'd start by adding a type system.
04:11:17 <alise> SgeoN1: because it has absolutely 0 features suitable for this
04:11:23 <pikhq> No, but it is more flexible than Lisp.
04:11:29 <SgeoN1> Ok,type safety pretty much throws Smalltalk out, but Python too
04:11:29 <alise> pikhq: yeaaaah :P no thanks
04:11:40 <alise> I'm using Python because it's the lowest common denominator, as I said.
04:11:46 <alise> pikhq: By the way, start using Bitstream Charter for IRC. Now. :|
04:11:58 <alise> And ... everything
04:12:05 <SgeoN1> Alise, remind me tomorrow
04:12:19 <SgeoN1> Use that font for everything
04:13:19 <alise> It's damn good on-screen!
04:13:31 <SgeoN1> I sshould eat something, but there's not much I'm willing to eat
04:13:33 <alise> http://ccxvii.net/gargoyle/shots/tads-lcd.png (if LCD screen)
04:13:39 <alise> http://ccxvii.net/gargoyle/shots/tads-crt.png (if non-LCD)
04:13:55 <alise> What I am saying is: god damn look how beautiful it is, it's a beautiful serif almost optimised for screen.
04:14:02 <alise> (optimised for 300dpi 80s laser printers)
04:14:14 <alise> SgeoN1: YOU DON'T SAY!
04:14:23 <alise> (Luxi Mono is a nice serify monospaced font that goes well with it.)
04:14:54 <SgeoN1> Would Luxury work for Methadone?
04:16:04 <SgeoN1> I love autocorrect on this thing
04:16:35 <SgeoN1> Although what it tried to autocorrect was Nethack. It left NetHack aloneosh
04:18:58 * SgeoN1 puts an amulet of restful sleep on alise. Well, I think it's restful sleep. Could be Strangulation
04:20:43 <alise> Released under a licence which permits free distribution but not modification, the Luxi fonts are not free software. This led to their removal from Fedora as well as the Debian package of XFree86.
04:20:49 <alise> but luxi mono is really nice
04:21:59 <SgeoN1> What's the point of releasing free stuff if modification is allowed? If you don't want money, surely you want your stuff to be widely used...
04:22:14 <alise> if modification isn't allowed?
04:22:28 <alise> don't want their work tarnished
04:22:34 <alise> want to keep a good name for a high standard
04:22:44 <alise> don't want people piggybacking off their design
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04:27:45 <SgeoN1> My water's clean and my water's free, so Pond Erosa, you gonna thank me
04:28:25 <alise> Aieee, OpenBSD songs.
04:28:28 <alise> That's my cue to run ->
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04:29:41 <SgeoN1> Awesome, I can put alise to sleep on command
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13:00:15 <Ilari> Hah: "The stateOrProvinceName field needed to be the same in the CA certificate (None) and the request (None)".
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13:17:50 <pikhq> Everything has conspired against me to make me wake up at 6.
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13:28:04 <fizzie> A fiendish perspiracy. I mean, a conspiracy.
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13:51:03 <Vorpal> <pikhq> Everything has conspired against me to make me wake up at 6. <-- heh
13:53:15 <pikhq> Vorpal: SUN CAT NOISE ALLERGY
13:53:24 <pikhq> Here, take some word salad instead of an answer.
13:58:15 <Vorpal> pikhq, in Sweden we have these things called "rullgardin" that guards against sun cats. Google translate seem to suggest "1. pulldown 2. blind 3. shade" for it
13:59:15 <Vorpal> that is assuming sun cat means the same as in Swedish
13:59:25 <Vorpal> would be hilarious if it didn't
14:03:18 <fizzie> Allergy for the noises made by the sun cats.
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15:07:52 <pikhq> Alas, poor Yorick, I knew him well.
15:10:08 <Sgeo> Alas, poor Yorick, e hears that a lot
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16:00:19 <Vorpal> <pikhq> Alas, poor Yorick, I knew him well. <-- what?
16:01:05 <Vorpal> oh Shakespear misquoting
16:01:18 <Vorpal> ' The opening words are very commonly misquoted as "Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him well." '
16:02:48 <Vorpal> wikipedia claims it is: "Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy; he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! My gorge rises at it. Here hung those lips that I have kissed I know not how oft. Where be your gibes now? (Hamlet, V.i)"
16:20:18 <Vorpal> fizzie, I took what I'd like to call a cloudorama (sounds better than "cloud panorama"), I have no idea how it will turn out, but parallax should not be the main issue... Will take a bit to process it
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16:20:35 <Vorpal> some quite interesting cloud shapes today
16:21:29 <Vorpal> hm forgot to set constant exposure, might have some problems with that
16:21:32 <Vorpal> oh well, we will see...
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16:30:11 <yorick> Vorpal: I'm used to people misquoting it
16:31:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, incidentally, is it possible to capture a whole rainbow without distorting perspective?
16:31:15 <Vorpal> yorick, I can't make much sense of the correct quote, but then I'm not a native English speaker... So this quite dated English is a bit problematic...
16:31:49 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, define distorting perspective.
16:31:53 <yorick> Vorpal: I think more people have this problem
16:32:00 * yorick thinks this channel contains geeks
16:32:06 <Vorpal> yorick, probably, I don't think pikhq does though
16:32:27 <yorick> Vorpal: in fact, I've only heard it correctly the first time once :)
16:32:35 <yorick> by someone who played the role in a play
16:32:39 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, define "noticeably" in precise mathematical terms :P
16:33:25 <yorick> I used to be all like "OMG you misquoted", but I gave up on that
16:33:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Honestly, why didn't Shakespeare put the best-known line from the play into it?
16:34:15 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, anyway I have no clue, presumably if you printed the image large and put it up on a curved wall it would work
16:34:32 <Vorpal> that would require you to stand at a specific point though
16:35:34 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, that would be possible with a moderate fisheye lens. Then you could use hugin or similar softwares to correct it
16:39:09 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, from a fisheye? Yes by your definition of "distorting perspective"
16:39:20 <Vorpal> but all lenses distort perspective more or less
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16:43:01 <Phantom_Hoover> i.e. if you showed it to someone on the street, would they notice the distortion.
16:46:37 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, doubtful, he had a white cane (not sure if it means the same over there, but here it is used by blind people)
16:47:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, are you really so unaware of other cultures that you assume that everything is utterly different?
16:48:39 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what? I just assume things might be different over there when I don't know otherwise
16:49:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, but you do it so much that it becomes rather ridiculous.
16:49:22 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, if you meant the "blinds" thing above, that was a joke yes
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16:55:16 <alise> X! and R! and R R R!
16:58:59 <alise> Can someone please tell me why X-Chat doesn't let you configure a colour?
17:01:45 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: or, at least, people who suck at ui design
17:02:56 <alise> unless I find a decent client, well, I'll be forced to write that smart IRC lib and a decently-designed IRC client on top of it
17:03:06 <alise> what gargoyle does for IF, for IRC!
17:03:21 <alise> Interactive Fiction.
17:03:27 <alise> You know, text adventures. But more literary.
17:03:43 <alise> Gargoyle is an interpreter for them that actually pays attention to typography: http://ccxvii.net/gargoyle/screenshots.html
17:04:03 <alise> Which is, you know, quite important for literature.
17:04:22 <alise> Some of them just put unantialiased Arial without line spacing in a big window, white on blue.
17:05:09 <alise> Well, it is, though, it's like Helvetica but ugly.
17:05:14 <alise> And /unantialiased/ Arial...
17:05:21 <alise> Well, let's just say that I've never seen more jaggy lines.
17:05:45 <Phantom_Hoover> I have seen people saying that antialiasing is a terrible thing.
17:05:46 <alise> http://orvp.net/xchat/simplyglyphed/simplyglyphed-compact.png
17:05:52 <alise> A midsummer night's IRC.
17:06:13 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Tuomov sharse that opinion. But then tuomov is my designated "person who pisses everyone off but is intelligent enough that I should read what he says to broaden my horizons".
17:06:50 <alise> Tuomov Valkonen, author of Ion3.
17:06:59 <alise> You know, that tiling window manager that you heard about when he changed the license to a crazy non-FOSS one.
17:07:33 <alise> Distro maintainers.
17:07:53 <alise> I don't necessarily agree with his opinions; it's just that he gives enough intelligent justification for most of them -- if you ignore the abrasiveness -- that it's worth reading.
17:07:58 <alise> Although he's taken his blog down as of late.
17:08:03 <alise> Sorry, his "not a blog".
17:12:39 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Uh, it said that you couldn't call derivative works "ion", and that if a distrobution's package was older than, I think, 30 days, it had to give the user a big glaring warning and point them to the website.
17:12:49 <alise> (Originally, iirc, it said that distros had to update within N days of a release.)
17:12:55 <alise> It was more to stop distros packaging it altogether than to get better packaging.
17:13:08 <alise> (Since, obviously, none of them wanted to package non-FOSS software in the first place, let alone comply with the terms.)
17:13:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, the name bit seems reminiscent of what Mozilla does, so not completely crazy.
17:13:23 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: We're talking any single code change at all here.
17:14:28 <alise> Yes, well, it wasn't intended to be sane.
17:15:35 <alise> Basically. Anyway, that isn't really the important part; his blog was.
17:15:56 <alise> Underneath the fuming moron lay someone with actually good ideas (along with some kooky ones, but all well-justified).
17:16:13 <alise> So I decided, to balance out the self-affirming crap I, like everyone, read, I'd read his blog too.
17:16:23 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Well, just some ones I didn't agree with, really.
17:16:32 <alise> But he had arguments in various stages of compelling for all of them.
17:16:37 <alise> Certainly an intelligent guy.
17:17:00 <alise> For instance, I disagreed that antialiasing sucked and bitmap fonts were superior on current screens, but I at least respected the opinion.
17:17:18 <alise> He switched to Windows from Linux right before he gave up on his blog. Even that managed to be slightly convincing as to its sanity.
17:20:23 <alise> Unfortunately no archive.
17:20:36 <alise> Even the Internet Archive has maybe one or two posts; I don't know their URLs, so I can't help you.
17:21:02 <alise> I would email tuomov@iki.fi if you want to read any of it. Although he'll probably yell at you.
17:21:04 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Well, maybe not.
17:21:09 <alise> Pages are there in the archive.
17:21:12 <alise> Just not recent pages.
17:21:16 <alise> robots.txt blocks even old ones, I think.
17:21:34 <Phantom_Hoover> No, only versions of pages post-adding of restrictions.
17:23:03 <alise> http://web.archive.org/web/20070513131756/http://modeemi.fi/~tuomov/b/ The last archive is from 2007.
17:23:38 <alise> His best posts aren't there.
17:23:49 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: He might have just blocked all robots to e.g. keep Google out.
17:24:08 <alise> The requested URL /~tuomov/robots.txt was not found on this server.
17:24:14 <alise> Although /b/ is not found too.
17:24:18 <alise> So he may have just nuked it.
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17:34:16 <alise> the g is fucke'st up
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17:37:31 <alise> lol, default freetype subpixel rendering is so bad it's comical
17:37:40 <alise> like "gouge my eyes out with a rusty fork" comical
17:38:15 <Vorpal> alise, you told us this several times before
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17:38:52 <alise> Vorpal: no, i said freetype patched rendering is bad
17:39:06 <alise> unpatched freetype rendering is, in a literally visible to every single person way, colour fringing on /every single vertical line/
17:39:17 <alise> sublime in its hideousness
17:39:19 <Vorpal> alise, patched? you mean the patent thingy?
17:39:26 <alise> or a non-patented patch
17:39:28 <Vorpal> you claimed both the patent free and the patent ones were horrible
17:40:00 <alise> i was meaning the patched, patent-free ones
17:40:11 <Vorpal> patched with what patch?
17:40:11 <alise> world-wide userbase of totally unpatched freetype set to subpixel is 0
17:40:30 <Vorpal> alise, the one that fix a typo in a comment? ;P
17:40:46 <alise> "3DNow!™ Instructions are Being Deprecated"
17:40:51 <alise> and not being included in future processors
17:41:24 <Vorpal> alise, this is like the first time x86 breaks backward compat then
17:41:31 <alise> it's not exactly x86 :-P
17:41:39 <alise> anyway who writes x86-64 code that uses 3DNow!???
17:41:46 <alise> of course it could be 32-bit code being run i guess
17:41:53 <Vorpal> yes that is what I meant
17:42:05 <Vorpal> 32-bit x86 code which uses 3dnow is quite plausible
17:42:05 <alise> still ... everything has an SSE path
17:42:11 <alise> no popular software ran just on AMD
17:42:23 <alise> [Now we will see how many cowboys just checked for 'AUTHENTICAMD' and assumed 3DNow as a result.]]
17:42:24 <alise> is the real problem
17:43:07 <alise> i wonder why it's AUTHENTICAMD, to distinguish from ACTUALLYFAKESORRYAMD?
17:43:09 <Vorpal> alise, unbalanced [ and ]
17:43:38 <Vorpal> it is actually AuthenticAMD
17:43:48 <alise> ActuallyFakeSorryAMD
17:43:58 <Vorpal> alise, why is it GenuineIntel
17:44:07 <Vorpal> alise, also that string is too long
17:44:38 <Vorpal> notice AuthenticAMD and GenuineIntel has exactly the same length
17:45:26 <Vorpal> alise, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPUID#EAX.3D0:_Get_vendor_ID
17:45:37 <Vorpal> CyrixInstead is quite nice
17:46:06 <alise> does it have to be alphanum?
17:46:28 <Sgeo> alise, why do OpenBSD songs scare you so?
17:46:53 <alise> Sgeo: they're shit.
17:47:14 <alise> Hell, Vorpal, you like OpenBSD.
17:47:21 <alise> Tell me, Vorpal, exactly how shitty are the release songs?
17:47:24 <Vorpal> alise, I didn't say I liked their release songs
17:47:30 <alise> I never said that either.
17:47:31 <Vorpal> alise, I said I liked the OS
17:47:32 <alise> How terrible are they?
17:47:39 <alise> Just, 1 to 10 scale.
17:47:56 <Vorpal> alise, well, iirc 3.6 is quite passable considering. But the rest... -2 ?
17:48:07 <Vorpal> and considering is "considering it is country western"
17:48:09 <alise> Even OpenBSD fans cannot stand the release songs.
17:48:21 <Vorpal> alise, I'm not a "fan" as such
17:48:22 <alise> Vorpal: But all country/western has the exact same level of shittiness; infinite!
17:48:27 <Vorpal> I think it is a decent OS
17:48:33 <Vorpal> but calling me a fan is taking it too far
17:48:50 * Vorpal turns on a table top fan
17:49:00 <alise> Fan fan fan fan fan fan fan fan fan...
17:49:13 <Vorpal> alise, why are you speaking in Swedish now?
17:49:27 <alise> Wir fan fan fan auf der Autobahn
17:49:42 <alise> Kraftwerk reference.
17:49:44 <alise> It's actually *fahren.
17:50:11 <Vorpal> alise, sv:fan = {en:fan,en:devil,en:damn}
17:50:26 <alise> http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html
17:50:30 <Vorpal> alise, though not en:fan in the sense of "device moving air"
17:50:38 <Vorpal> alise, for that it would be sv:fläkt
17:51:03 <alise> [[The Apache group started from the humble beginnings of just being 'a patchy' set of changes to a completely free web server of dubious quality. But the years have changed them, and what they supply is now quite non-free... released under a license so entangled in legalese that we have absolutely no doubt that there are encumbrances hidden within. Legal terms protect. Who are they protecting? Not your f
17:51:08 <alise> they're calling Apache non-free
17:51:19 <Vorpal> alise, at least they stopped the commentary
17:51:27 <alise> In 2004, it appears.
17:52:59 <Vorpal> no, 4.4 has commentary
17:53:16 <alise> They called Apache non-free in 2004.
17:53:37 <Vorpal> alise, it has a less bsdy license than they like
17:53:45 <Vorpal> they call gpl non-free too... so what do you expect?
17:53:58 <Sgeo> What license was XFree86 under? BSD with advertising?
17:54:54 <alise> after they changed
17:55:09 <alise> Versions of XFree86 up to and including some release candidates for 4.4.0 were under the MIT License, a permissive, non-copyleft free software license. XFree86 4.4 was released in February 2004 with a change to the license: the addition of a credit clause,[15] similar to that in the original BSD license,[16] but broader in scope. Many projects relying on XFree86 found the new license unacceptable,[17] an
17:55:09 <alise> d the Free Software Foundation considers it incompatible with the version 2 of the GNU General Public License, but compatible with version 3.[18] The XFree86 Project states that the license is "as GPL compatible as any and all previous versions were", but does not mention which version or versions of the GPL this is valid for.[19]
17:55:16 <alise> http://www.xfree86.org/legal/licenses.html
17:55:21 <alise> it's similar to BSD4, yes.
17:56:27 <Vorpal> BSD-700 would be the GPL I think
17:57:49 <alise> "Using vacuous schema" --nXML.
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17:59:21 <alise> tramp /sudo:: is awesome
17:59:26 <alise> C-x C-f /sudo::/etc/fonts/local.conf
18:01:03 <Vorpal> alise, ... that wasn't what I meant
18:01:17 <Vorpal> alise, what I meant was what distro you are editing /etc/fonts/local.conf on
18:01:42 <alise> ubuntu comes with a basically decent lcd patch by default so i don't need to fuck about with this as much
18:01:47 <alise> (it still has some borkenness though)
18:02:31 <Vorpal> alise, OR you could turn off subpixel :P
18:02:43 <Vorpal> less colour distortion
18:02:54 <alise> no colour distortion with a high dpi display like i have and a good patch
18:02:59 <alise> unhinted non-subpixel is an non-starter
18:03:03 <alise> too low resolution
18:03:09 <alise> (and hinting is destroying my fonts)
18:03:29 <alise> for a gentoo user, you sure do hate it when people prefer other settings to the ones you use.
18:03:45 <alise> for instance http://ccxvii.net/gargoyle/shots/tads-lcd.png
18:03:50 <alise> has absolutely 0 visible colour distortion.
18:03:54 <Vorpal> alise, the point of typefaces on screen is to make text readable IMO. Sure for logos you might have somewhat different requirements, but apart from that..
18:04:03 <alise> and hinting is making the type unreadable
18:04:16 <Vorpal> alise, I find full hinting on dejavu works very well
18:04:18 <alise> mostly because freetype sucks at hinting
18:04:25 <Vorpal> I quite like hand-made bitmapped fonts too
18:04:26 <alise> look Vorpal i really don't give half a shit what you like in your fonts or not
18:04:33 <alise> so please stop trying to convert me
18:04:40 <Vorpal> alise, opengenera has some awesome bitmapped fonts
18:05:04 <Vorpal> alise, that text is blurry though.
18:05:14 <Vorpal> alise, this is on a 96 DPI TFT monitor
18:05:38 <alise> this is a 128 ppi TFT display of good quality
18:05:47 <alise> it is not blurry here.
18:05:53 <alise> it looks exactly like a book
18:06:23 <Vorpal> alise, what is that strange text adventure btw
18:06:32 <alise> text adventure != interactive fiction
18:06:40 <alise> people stopped making text adventures a while ago
18:06:42 <Vorpal> alise, it looked like a text adventure
18:06:51 <alise> interactive fiction is text adventures
18:07:04 <alise> much more like a novel
18:07:23 <alise> Vorpal just dislikes it
18:07:31 <Vorpal> alise, I like the good old text adventures
18:09:36 <Phantom_Hoover> General rule: someone who says "good old" is speaking through nostalgia, rather than reality.
18:09:57 <alise> I can't get past the start of "Spider and Web".
18:11:51 <fizzie> Hey, now that I have separate X screens and no Xinerama nonsense (because turning Xine on makes X segfault...), maybe I could finally get per-screen subpixel orderings and/or settings.
18:12:08 <alise> No Xinerama nonsense? Why, you could use ion3!
18:12:15 <alise> (Just because I listen to him doesn't mean I can't mock him.)
18:12:24 <alise> fizzie: But, wait, why would you turn on Xine?
18:13:40 <fizzie> Oh, it was a needlessly confusing abbreviation for "Xinerama" there. :p
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18:16:43 <Sgeo> Oh, and I was thinking Xinerama was some home entertainment thing
18:20:37 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> General rule: someone who says "good old" is speaking through nostalgia, rather than reality. <-- XD
18:21:05 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, maybe, but I can't be nostalgic over something I discovered way after I discovered their replacements (games with graphics)
18:24:08 <alise> <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, maybe, but I can't be nostalgic over something I discovered way after I discovered their replacements (games with graphics) ;; yes you can
18:24:14 <alise> you can be nostalgic over things you weren't even born for
18:24:15 <Sgeo> Xinerama sounds like some fancy program that uses Xine
18:24:39 <alise> Also, if you pronounce it in a certain way, it sounds like "Cine[ma-]rama."
18:27:04 <Sgeo> Dealing with some idiot who thinks that since an old channel isn't supposed to be actively used (a lot of people still idle there), he can keep asking for it, day after day
18:28:00 <Sgeo> #secondlife on EFNet
18:28:07 <Sgeo> Moved to ##secondlife on Freenode
18:28:21 <Sgeo> And he just changed the topic in the latter to ask the question
18:28:26 <Sgeo> After I changed it back
18:28:47 <alise> Sgeo: i'll defend the topic :P
18:28:49 <alise> if you put it back one time
18:29:01 <alise> See, I'm totally altruistic.
18:30:19 <alise> Sgeo: just pretend i'm a bot
18:31:05 <alise> Sgeo: stop talking to him, he's clearly trolling
18:31:26 <Sgeo> alise, by persistently and continually asking the same thing every so often?
18:31:39 <alise> and provoking you to field utterly pointless questions
18:31:42 <alise> enough that you sigh in here
18:31:48 <alise> just say nothing and he'll get bored.
18:32:01 <Sgeo> No, apparently he doesn't
18:32:18 <Sgeo> He asks for the room regardless of whether or not anyone responds
18:32:38 <alise> and i'll change the topic back
18:32:42 <alise> but eventually, he will get bored.
18:33:01 <Sgeo> I mean, in EFNet he asks
18:33:04 <Sgeo> Every few hours
18:33:10 <Sgeo> Regardless of the response
18:33:21 <alise> but he can't do that all his life
18:33:25 <alise> so at some point he will give up
18:33:31 <alise> this will be soon, due to finite patience.
18:33:53 <Sgeo> I think he started weeks ago
18:33:56 <Sgeo> Or maybe days, not sure
18:34:13 <alise> no op around to +b?
18:34:15 <Sgeo> Before August 13th
18:34:22 <Sgeo> In EFNet, just Gigs
18:34:43 <Sgeo> E hasn't been active in either channel, afaict
18:36:34 <alise> you just provoked him
18:39:23 <alise> Did You Know: There's an implementation of RFC5514?
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18:44:24 <alise> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5514
18:47:43 <alise> Sgeo: feeding. stop
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18:51:02 <alise> Sgeo: ok, he's clearly a worthless troll, i've succumbed but i'm stopping now and so should you
18:53:39 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, the interesting stuff was on the Freenode side
18:54:22 <Sgeo> And that's past tense
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19:04:03 <alise> I think I'm just going to install GNOME.
19:04:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Anyone who knows care to tell me what the difference betwixt CS and CIS is?
19:04:45 <alise> I think CIS is like CS' retarded little brother.
19:04:51 -!- alise has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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19:05:14 <alise> Yeah ... I'm thinkin' ... GNOME would be the least painful option at the moment.
19:06:40 <Sgeo> CIS is basically what I'm in. Little theory
19:06:55 <alise> CIS = Software engineering -- the Retarded Name edition, then.
19:08:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, if you don't like theory, why do you hang out here?
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19:08:30 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, learn to parse
19:08:37 <Sgeo> CIS has little theory
19:09:23 <Sgeo> Hence, the pain
19:11:43 <Sgeo> Because the college's CS department was shutting down
19:12:11 <Sgeo> Also, I didn't really know the difference back then
19:12:30 <Sgeo> And if I did, I would probably have leaned towards "practical" anyway :/
19:12:51 <Sgeo> But yeah, CS shutting down, and having no real choice of college...
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19:29:06 <alise> does gnome depend on gstreamer these days?
19:29:27 <alise> pikhq: Hey, you know MuPDF?
19:29:40 <alise> Yeah, it's the same guy who does Gargoyle.
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19:30:05 -!- olsner has joined.
19:31:04 <alise> "Typeset -- various typesetting software; hyphenation and TeX-style line breaking"
19:31:07 <alise> Awesome! C code for it!
19:31:21 <alise> dis guy iz mah hero
19:35:12 <pikhq> Winter break be over
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19:44:53 <alise> sun12x22 is a nice console font.
19:45:09 <alise> ``And it has `UNIX QUOTES'! Ooh, and a nice Q, too.''
19:47:23 <Sgeo> http://www.stationv3.com/
19:47:28 <alise> JFS! The most amazingly amazing filesystem that nobody uses ever!
19:47:30 <olsner> hmm, still up, this is becoming a quite long sunday
19:48:00 <fizzie> I used a rather large-amount-of-pixels Sun font on the SparcStation, the few times I actually had a monitor plugged in it. I remember it being quite nice.
19:48:04 <alise> Monday: The longest Sunday.
19:48:15 <alise> fizzie: It somehow manages to pull off serifs and not look jaggy.
19:49:00 <alise> Sgeo: I will now attempt to read that ON THE FRAMEBUFFER FUCK YEAH.
19:49:21 <alise> `links -g' representin'
19:49:44 <Sgeo> IT'S OVER NO OUTPUT!!!
19:50:13 <alise> Sgeo: poper still going on?
19:50:19 <Sgeo> There was some activity
19:50:45 <Sgeo> And talk about the history of EFNet#secondlife
19:50:53 <Sgeo> And about how I was banned from there once
19:53:00 <Sgeo> I talked about my apparently misnamed product too much maybe
19:53:58 <Sgeo> I don't remember the details of their argument, but I guess arguably "antiposeball" is inaccurate as it doesn't destroy poseballs
19:54:40 <alise> ``That makes absolutely no sense,'' said the Quite Elegant Benefactor.
19:55:05 <alise> Ooh, we need reverse semicolons.
19:55:10 <alise> ``They would be classy.;;
19:55:50 * Sgeo goes to try DCSS
19:56:32 <alise> ``Distributed CSS''
19:57:05 <Sgeo> ``which echo hi
19:57:16 <Sgeo> I just realized that that makes no sense
19:58:38 <alise> ``Although I do wonder if this font isn't intended for text more than terminal output...''
19:59:18 <Sgeo> alise is a backquote addict!
19:59:26 <Sgeo> More than I'm a virtual world addict!
20:00:27 <Sgeo> Well, my DCSS experience is off to a good start
20:00:31 <Sgeo> I can't even register sgeo!
20:01:05 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
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20:53:58 <fizzie> The only RPG system I've tried out: http://everything2.com/title/LMERP
20:55:28 -!- alise has joined.
20:55:33 <alise> I just installed liboobs.
20:55:40 <alise> (I'm pretty sure that's unintentional.)
20:56:23 <alise> Review of stock GNOME: It's pretty okay. (Better than Ubuntu GNOME.)
20:57:01 <Sgeo> alise, so far, Crawl seems to be intended to be playable without spoilers, but is supposedly harder than spoiled NetHack
20:57:11 <pikhq> alise: Not surprising.
20:57:15 <Vorpal> alise, old, I mentioned it a few weeks ago
20:57:17 <alise> Sgeo: It also gives you a headache.
20:57:18 <pikhq> Ubuntu loves to make things shitty.
20:57:22 <alise> Vorpal: what, liboobs?
20:57:28 <alise> Vorpal: didn't realise
20:57:56 <Vorpal> alise, I said I thought that the chance of that being unintentional were damn small iirc
20:58:14 <alise> True, there actually seems to be no other reason to name it like that.
20:58:17 <Vorpal> alise, not sure you were here then, but I thought you log read
20:58:20 <alise> So we have a very boob-appreciating GNOME developer.
20:58:25 <alise> Vorpal: yes, but sometimes I skip logs
20:58:31 <alise> I read for fun, not to keep updated
20:58:36 <alise> Pretty sure I can start fam in the background, I can probably get away with starting HAL in the background...
20:58:41 <alise> GDM needs dbus or it won't start.
20:58:49 <alise> (Need HAL to mount stuff from Nautilus; alas.)
20:59:00 <Vorpal> alise, why not use gamin?
20:59:20 <Vorpal> alise, yes but gamin is a drop-in ABI compatible replacement for fam
20:59:30 <Vorpal> alise, which doesn't need a daemon running as root
20:59:39 <Vorpal> with all the security problems it implies
20:59:41 <alise> Presumably it needs a daemon running as $you?
21:00:02 <Vorpal> alise, normally it doesn't, it uses kernel apis, but when it needs it, it will automagically start it
21:00:08 <alise> I am, uh, not terribly worried about FAM security.
21:00:21 <alise> Vorpal: so I can just install gamin and not configure anything?
21:00:21 <Vorpal> alise, pretty sure all major distros, including ubuntu, switched to gamin
21:00:35 <Vorpal> alise, just remove the fam daemon from startup
21:00:57 <alise> it's not in startup, but i won't bother uninstalling fam, probably
21:01:16 <alise> DAEMONS=(syslog-ng !netfs @network @crond @hal dbus)
21:01:19 <Vorpal> alise, well it installs libfam.so so you can't have boths at once
21:01:26 <alise> yeah, pacman told me
21:01:34 <alise> hopefully gnome will remove the hal dependency soon.
21:01:39 <alise> since it's basically being deprecated
21:01:47 <Vorpal> alise, my DAEMONS is: DAEMONS=(syslog-ng @sensors @gpm @smartd @alsa network @iptables @ntpd @hal @ddclient @sshd aiccu @crond @ip6tables @denyhosts @postfix @mdadm @cpufreq @radvd)
21:01:54 <alise> Vorpal: you're a lunatic
21:02:00 <alise> DAEMONS=(syslog-ng !netfs @network @crond @hal dbus)
21:02:08 <Vorpal> alise, I have a lot more stuff to start
21:02:27 <alise> "speaking of HAL, time to install OSS"
21:02:28 <Vorpal> alise, you don't need an ipv6 tunnel obviously
21:02:30 <alise> (not really, gonna get clyde first)
21:02:36 <alise> Vorpal: nor do you, you just want one for the geek cred
21:02:49 <Vorpal> alise, actually I do, I use some ipv6 only irc servers
21:02:49 <Sgeo> I'm having a bit of fun with this
21:03:06 <alise> Vorpal: ok, but that's because they're run by nerds who /really/ want the geek cred to the point of being stupid about it
21:04:07 <Vorpal> alise, anyway I need all those damons
21:04:12 <Vorpal> alise, well maybe not gpm
21:04:15 <Vorpal> but apart from that yes
21:04:36 <Vorpal> and gpm is nice to have
21:04:45 <alise> I need all those Matt Damons
21:04:51 <alise> you don't need alsa >:)
21:05:01 <Vorpal> alise, well I want my mixer levels restored
21:05:11 <Vorpal> alise, and I get low latency with alsa
21:05:12 <alise> ossv4! the only sound system that rhymes with "whore"!
21:05:15 <Vorpal> so I have no issues with using it
21:05:32 <alise> I use ESD on OSSv4, oh yeah.
21:05:36 <alise> I use ESD on OSSv3, oh yeah.
21:05:48 <alise> I run Linux with the first prerelease of E17!
21:05:52 <alise> I browse with Mozilla!
21:06:04 <alise> I am the very model of an early-2000s Linux user!
21:06:52 <alise> Stupid Epiphany, listening to DPI settings.
21:07:00 <alise> The web isn't built for your idealistic notions.
21:07:20 <alise> Vorpal: if you have a high-dpi monitor then Epiphany will go "Ooh! That means I can render pt-size fonts correctly!"
21:07:25 <Vorpal> alise, besides you won't have your time set over network
21:07:28 <alise> result: websites designed on already high-dpi screens with browsers that don't do this,
21:07:28 <Vorpal> you need ntpd for that
21:07:35 <alise> get sized too small
21:07:45 <alise> i don't know why small instead of big
21:08:02 <alise> Vorpal: yeah, but i synced with ntp at the start and i think my system clock is quite good at ticking :P
21:08:21 <alise> it's default font settings in gnome it listens to
21:08:23 <alise> including font size
21:08:26 <alise> so default font size ends up not being 16px
21:08:27 <Vorpal> alise, well I run software that needs +/- a few seconds accuracy
21:08:31 <alise> so relatively-sized websites bork
21:08:44 <alise> Vorpal: yes, my clock doesn't tick out that much without waiting a good long while I'll bet
21:09:03 <Vorpal> alise, doesn't cups need hal iirc?
21:09:09 <Vorpal> or was it dbus it needed
21:09:18 <alise> i don't have a printer
21:09:24 <alise> it'd have to be a network printer too as i have no printer port :P
21:09:40 <alise> probably dbus, i doubt apple would depend on hal
21:09:43 <Vorpal> anyway <alise> DAEMONS=(syslog-ng !netfs @network @crond @hal dbus) is wrong because the hal script will start dbus and you will probably get a race condition there
21:09:55 <alise> Vorpal: one of them will fail to start dbus, no biggie
21:10:03 <Sgeo> alise, remember how I had to tell you that a wand was speed monster
21:10:09 <Sgeo> Crawl would do that for you
21:10:25 <Vorpal> alise, I'm not sure if arch init scripts do locking properly
21:10:29 <alise> metacity is quite corrigible
21:10:44 <alise> i was trying to say acceptable
21:10:50 <alise> but that isn't actually what not-incorrigible means
21:10:57 <alise> incorrigible = broken beyond the point of acceptability
21:11:01 <alise> corrigible = broken but fixable
21:11:58 <Vorpal> alise, how is metacity broken?
21:12:08 <Vorpal> alise, I find it nice and non-intrusive
21:12:08 <alise> Vorpal: fun fact: before I installed ttf-dejavu, while gnome-extras was installing -- at this point GNOME was using bitmapped fonts -- it installed evince, which caused gsfonts to install. This caused the whole desktop to switch to using the ghostscript Helvetica.
21:12:12 <alise> It was ... comical.
21:12:21 <alise> as i said, corrigible didn't have the meaning I'd like it to
21:12:44 <alise> i appear to have gotten myself addicted to my mouse-bindings setup though
21:12:59 <alise> where middle click = close window, right click = minimise/iconify, and alt+right-drag resizes
21:13:07 <alise> (as well as alt+left-drag moving)
21:13:18 <alise> those middle and right clicks are on the window title that is
21:13:39 <alise> [ehird@dinky conf.d]$ sudo ln -s ../conf.avail/70-no-bitmaps.conf .
21:13:51 <alise> Stupid fucking "helvetica".
21:15:45 <alise> HAHA I THINK I DEFEATED FEEBLE GNOME
21:15:54 <alise> :root { font-size: 16px } -- my user stylesheet
21:16:27 <Vorpal> alise, ghostscript helvetica is quite nasty iirc?
21:16:38 <alise> which is why it was so amusing
21:16:58 <Vorpal> alise, and if even I think a font is nasty, it must be horrible to you
21:17:06 <alise> now to figure out why Epiphany's documentation LIES about putting %{width=CHARS} at the end of a bookmark URL will make its toolbar textbox thing wider
21:17:23 <alise> Vorpal: well ... it was better than bitmapped helvetica at the size gnome was using it at
21:17:33 <alise> that is, the size gnome was using bitmapped helvetica at
21:17:41 <Vorpal> alise, you just proved font relativity
21:17:51 <alise> just call me Alistein
21:18:24 <alise> WHY DO YOU LIE, GNOME?!
21:19:17 <Vorpal> alise, why not just use firefox?
21:19:37 <alise> Firefox is slow and crashy. And, well, I'm trying to sign up to the GNOME cult here! Failing this, I'll just use Midori.
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21:21:21 <alise> Strange. AliseLang#72 isn't solidifying in my head. Perhaps it's already solid...
21:21:45 <Vorpal> alise, how many have you implemented of those?
21:22:01 <alise> Uh, 0. AliseLang is the term for my current pet head-language.
21:22:09 <alise> If it's implemented it gets named and therefore ceases to be an AliseLang.
21:22:20 <alise> Crazy secret: I don't actually keep track of them!
21:23:18 <alise> Vorpal: Besides, I'd like to see you implement a compiler for a language with a good type system (above Hindley-Milner), Erlang-style code reloading, processes that communicate in a functionally pure way, and a reactor at the core multiplexing all sorts of internal and external IO including automatic epoll() on sockets and the like.
21:23:18 <Vorpal> i didn't think you did
21:23:43 <Vorpal> alise, yeah I meant how many aliselangs have been implemented so far
21:24:08 <Vorpal> alise, oh and erlang does the automatic epoll()
21:24:27 <alise> yeah, unfortunately it sucks at everything else that I like :P
21:24:41 <Vorpal> alise, you could make a new language targeting BEAM
21:24:48 <Vorpal> (beam being the erlang vm)
21:25:02 <Vorpal> that new language's compiler could do the type checking and so on
21:25:19 <alise> yeah, but the architecture would be too different wrt. the processes due to it being more functionally-oriented.
21:25:33 <Vorpal> alise, the last "it" refers to?
21:26:53 <alise> X.org 8 success story, btw:
21:27:06 <alise> I installed X.org. I installed xf86-video-intel. I ran "startx". Everything worked. All I had to do is set my keymap.
21:27:21 <alise> This is what happens when you kick HAL out of the house for being a bum.
21:27:45 <Vorpal> <alise> I installed X.org. I installed xf86-video-intel. I ran "startx". Everything worked. All I had to do is set my keymap. <-- yes and?
21:27:57 <Vorpal> alise, are you surprised in any way?
21:28:01 <alise> Well, in previous versions of X.org nothing worked because it used HAL and HAL sucked shit.
21:28:09 <alise> And you had to create an xorg.conf.
21:28:19 <alise> So, yeah, I am surprised that 8 now doesn't suck in that manner.
21:28:19 <Vorpal> alise, even with HAL you just had to set keymap, oh and tell it stop touching joysticks
21:28:27 <alise> Nope, with HAL it would often not allow me to press keys.
21:28:29 <alise> Or move the mouse.
21:28:33 <alise> Even to do Ctrl+Alt+F1.
21:28:47 <Vorpal> alise, I heard synaptics is a PITA with xorg 8 however
21:28:58 * alise enables the trackpad
21:29:12 <Vorpal> alise, synaptics driver?
21:29:14 <alise> a bit jaggedy acceleration but that's just a user settings problem
21:29:21 <Vorpal> alise, that explains it
21:29:27 <Vorpal> alise, I meant the real synaptics driver
21:29:36 <alise> well evdev works fine, seemingly
21:29:52 <Vorpal> alise, it doesn't do all the stuff like palm detection
21:30:00 * alise decides to play a game: Let's See How "Empathy" Still Sucks!
21:30:20 <alise> Attempted to open "Accounts". Nothing happens! Eternal sadness!
21:30:25 <alise> Connection: Impossible!
21:30:33 <alise> It's so intuitive!
21:30:35 <Vorpal> what the fuck is "empathy"?
21:30:46 <alise> The New New Super Hyper IM Client in GNOME.
21:30:51 <alise> It's, uh, not very mature.
21:30:55 <Vorpal> alise, what is wrong with pidgin?
21:31:14 <alise> Everything. More or less. People who use Pidgin grow to be suicidal and then eventually just develop a mortal hatred yet deep dependence on it.
21:31:18 <Vorpal> isn't pidgin gtk anyway
21:31:19 <alise> Empathy, if it /worked/, would be better.
21:31:33 <alise> [ehird@dinky ~]$ empathy-accounts [ehird@dinky ~]$
21:31:45 <Vorpal> alise, someone fail at newlines there
21:32:02 <alise> although sometimes terminals do that to me
21:32:09 <Vorpal> alise, why aren't you using a real irc client?
21:32:18 <alise> haven't got one installed yet
21:32:22 <alise> i connected while still getting gnome up
21:32:27 <alise> (I just reinstalled, since I had a bunch of stuff installed.)
21:32:37 <alise> Vorpal: Or ... I, Arsey!
21:32:50 <Vorpal> <alise> (I just reinstalled, since I had a bunch of stuff installed.) <-- wait, is this supposed to make any sense?
21:32:59 <alise> Well, I have to name my awesomely typo-knowledgical client /something/.
21:33:06 <alise> Vorpal: Not really. I just had a ton of crap and decided to start over with GNOME as the base.
21:33:11 <alise> Rather than remove the stuff I no longer needed.
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21:34:10 <alise> "Bug report: empathy-accounts does nothing. Literally nothing."
21:34:33 <fizzie> There was also that "telepathy" thing; I can never keep it and empathy straight.
21:34:33 <alise> System -> Preferences -> Messaging and VOIP Accounts
21:34:36 <alise> Maybe this will pop it up.
21:34:48 <alise> fizzie: Telepathy is the underlying super-heterosexual-magic library/thing underlying Empathy.
21:34:54 <alise> It is not the most workituding of software.
21:35:11 <fizzie> It runs the IM stuff in N900, unless I misremember. :p
21:36:00 <fizzie> You can mangle libpurple's protocols into the mix somehow, though.
21:36:08 <alise> I just realised I can use GNOME PackageKit with clyde :sweet:
21:36:18 <alise> fizzie: Oh, maybe I need to install some Protocols Fuck Yeah,
21:36:44 <alise> extra/telepathy-butterfly 0.5.12-1 (telepathy) A MSN connection manager for Telepathy
21:36:53 <alise> You can tell it's modern software because they use abstract names to refer to things like MSN.
21:36:56 <Vorpal> alise, did you strace it
21:36:59 <alise> Their logo is a butterfly, so dude, let's call it butterfly.
21:37:05 <alise> extra/telepathy-gabble 0.8.14-1 (telepathy) A Jabber/XMPP connection manager for Telepathy
21:37:09 <alise> No logo? Just make some shit up!
21:37:18 <alise> Vorpal: nope, I'm just gonna install telepathy-BEAUTIFUL-BEAUTIFUL-BUTTERFLY
21:37:36 <Vorpal> alise, err, that reference seems familiar, can't place it
21:37:40 <alise> [ehird@dinky ~]$ clyde -S telepathy-beautiful-beautiful-butterfly ;; I actually typed this by mistake
21:38:11 <alise> Not a Discworld reference, I don't know if it's a reference; if it is, it wasn't intentional, or at least subconscious.
21:38:21 <alise> Vorpal: clyde is the only sane pacman-with-AUR that exists.
21:38:27 <alise> It uses libalpm instead of Let's Just Call Pacman.
21:38:35 <alise> It's what all the kids are using.
21:39:24 <Vorpal> alise, yaourt is using libalpm too iirc for some parts of it?
21:39:26 <fizzie> dpkg-query -l '*butter*' => account-plugin-butterfly 0.8, telepathy-butterfly 0.5.4-1maemo0.
21:39:53 <alise> Vorpal: Well, possibly. But yaourt is the slowest thing in existence, and clyde does All That But Better.
21:40:03 <alise> fizzie: Yay butter.
21:40:18 <Vorpal> alise, does it show recent comments?
21:40:54 <fizzie> I wonder what msn-pecan's name is referring to.
21:41:07 <fizzie> "Why msn-pecan? The short answer is: there are many problems with the Pidgin development team. It's basically impossible to implement anything there."
21:41:24 <Vorpal> alise, did it do that for you?
21:41:27 <fizzie> If only we could extract clean, renewable energy from all the complaining done by software developers.
21:41:45 <alise> Vorpal: If you gave it some -Q switch, probably.
21:41:47 <alise> Not when doing -S.
21:41:53 <alise> But, uh, you might be able to script it.
21:42:04 <alise> As a bonus, it's 1,000,000x faster and like, actually maintained.
21:42:15 <alise> fizzie: Hey, I resemble that remark.
21:42:15 <Vorpal> alise, besides yaourt is fast for me (have about 5 packages there)
21:42:24 <Vorpal> and I use pacman unless specifically doing AUR stuff
21:44:01 <alise> (have about 5 packages there) ; eh?
21:45:02 <fizzie> alise: Yes, you could power a small country (or at least a biggish city) all by yourself.
21:45:23 <alise> I should run for the presidency.
21:45:27 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
21:45:52 <alise> "Elect alise: your policy is so shit, CO2 will actually start getting sucked back up into machines."
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21:46:47 <alise> I think Ubuntu may ship with msn-pecan; it says WLM there instead of MSN, iirc.
21:47:11 <alise> "How msn-pecan fixed a 6 year old bug, how Pidgin didn’t, and stole the fix" ;; Open source software: It's THEFT.
21:47:47 <fizzie> Loose codes sink ships.
21:48:13 <fizzie> The comments part was a bit amusing.
21:48:39 <alise> "He changed his mind when I explained that the core parts of libpurple’s (Pidgin) msn were either developed or refined by me anyway, and therefore, Pidgin devs probably didn’t have the expertise required to identify this problem."
21:48:44 <alise> I am God, and Pidgin developers are mere Peasants.
21:48:52 <alise> They Cannot Understand My Perfect Code.
21:48:53 <fizzie> "(18:31:37) felipec left the room
21:48:53 <fizzie> (18:32:21) khc: actually, I knew what was required to fix that timeout bug before that, but that discussion prompted me to actually do it"
21:49:18 <alise> A thief *and* a liar!
21:53:00 <alise> Hmm, it seems not-so-certain that the pacman packagekit thing will actually call out instead of using libalpm, which would not allow clyde to work its AUR magic.
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22:03:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Perhaps I should try proving some trivial computational equivalences with some esolangs in Coq.
22:08:03 <distant_figure> Could anyone tell me the name of the game wherein you have to propose and vote on rules to win?
22:20:37 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:22:54 <oerjan> but he is never around. he can be emailed in emergencies.
22:23:27 <oerjan> i don't think anyone else has more than wiki admin access
22:23:44 <Phantom_Hoover> It's just something that would be really really useful.
22:23:51 <oerjan> (those are ais523 and keymaker)
22:24:05 <Phantom_Hoover> I mean, it's a CS wiki with no way of rendering mathematical notation.
22:24:22 <oerjan> yeah that's a bit awkward
22:24:49 <Phantom_Hoover> So why can't we get MediaWiki's built-in TeX renderer installed?
22:25:37 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, graue?
22:25:58 <Vorpal> oh yeah oerjan answered that
22:26:15 <fizzie> It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a graue.
22:26:42 <Vorpal> fizzie, did you see MC Frontalot rapping about infocom btw?
22:26:46 * oerjan isn't sure if he's supposed to make that public
22:26:59 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, ask oerjan to contact graue about this then
22:27:11 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, learn to delegate
22:27:12 <fizzie> There's an email address on the front page.
22:27:21 -!- cheater99 has joined.
22:27:24 <fizzie> http://esolangs.org/ has a "please contact graue" mailto link.
22:27:24 <oerjan> delegating to me is a hopeless proposition
22:30:11 <Vorpal> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarhj
22:30:19 <Vorpal> http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=159&artikel=3942754
22:30:32 <Vorpal> I was in that room a few months ago
22:32:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
22:32:11 <Vorpal> oerjan, yes but I mean, lucky it didn't happen when I was in there
22:34:03 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, "Ceiling fell down in auditorium"
22:34:17 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I attended lectures in that room during last spring
22:34:47 <oerjan> *MWAHAHAHA* now i know where Vorpal is
22:34:53 <Vorpal> oerjan, you knew this before
22:34:54 <oerjan> until i forget again, that is
22:35:09 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, oh, there were no lectures, that starts next week
22:35:17 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, yes that means I'm somewhere near there
22:35:59 <oerjan> Vorpal: all i recall from before is that you denied being at uppsala
22:36:14 <Vorpal> oerjan, well yeah Uppsala != Örebro
22:36:23 <Vorpal> oerjan, and that was like today or yesterday
22:36:27 <fizzie> Possibly you should invest a bit more on maintenance and repairs there...
22:36:29 <oerjan> yes, thus logical consistency is saved
22:36:44 <oerjan> fizzie: but but, that would cost money!
22:36:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, was supposedly renovated in 1995
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22:36:58 <Vorpal> fizzie, company who did it is now out of business
22:37:16 <oerjan> yeah and _why_ did they go out of business, we may ask
22:37:31 <Vorpal> na.se (local paper) writes that they were going to inspect all other ceilings built with the same technique.
22:37:38 <Vorpal> http://na.se/nyheter/2.2503/1.928537-innertak-rasade-pa-universitetet
22:38:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Since it's not TC, and all programs halt, which isn't necessary for FSA and PDA.
22:39:07 <oerjan> bah it's näse in swedish
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22:39:29 <Vorpal> considering the huge amounts of snow this winter I can only be glad it didn't fall down then
22:39:37 <Vorpal> since then I had lectures there
22:39:42 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: it can definitely compute things like ackermann, i believe
22:40:09 <oerjan> you need to prove things well ordered for such iirc
22:40:32 <oerjan> um the brackets problem? matching brackets?
22:40:42 <oerjan> that's _very_ low compared to ackermann.
22:40:51 <oerjan> not more than LOGSPACE
22:41:37 <oerjan> above primitive recursive, for ackermann
22:41:50 <oerjan> which means it's far beyond say EXPTIME
22:42:05 <oerjan> or EXPSPACE for that matter
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22:42:31 <Vorpal> oerjan, btw I felt the last iwc was a bit stony
22:42:45 <Vorpal> (not sure that pun works in English)
22:43:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Esolangs seem to be appallingly poor wrt different CCs.
22:43:43 <Phantom_Hoover> They seem to be limited entirely to PDAs, FSAs and TMs.
22:43:53 <Vorpal> oerjan, that would be "on drugs" afaik?
22:44:00 <Vorpal> oerjan, which is completely different
22:44:36 <Vorpal> oerjan, I meant more like "a bit awkward", though not exactly that either.
22:44:43 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: well it's a bit awkward to get most others without having a cutoff function of some sort?
22:45:33 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what CC is deadfish
22:45:35 <oerjan> well there are various examples i guess.
22:45:47 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, and what CC is HQ9+ ?
22:46:06 <oerjan> deadfish is more than FSA, perhaps more than PDA
22:46:08 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, is that a rigorous CC?
22:46:18 <Vorpal> oerjan, how can it be that?
22:46:35 <Vorpal> does it have any flow control?
22:46:39 <oerjan> well "more than" as in contains things outside it, not as in contains all of it
22:47:23 <Phantom_Hoover> However, I say "trivial" because it has no flow control whatsoever.
22:47:28 <Vorpal> oerjan, so they are overlapping sets
22:47:31 <oerjan> i don't _expect_ you can do squaring, increment and decrement with a PDA, although maybe there is a clever way
22:47:49 <Vorpal> why can't we have strict subsets
22:48:35 <oerjan> hm the Q command of HQ9+ might be awkward to get inside PDA too
22:48:37 <Vorpal> hm what about bounded data storage but infinite code storage?
22:49:28 <Phantom_Hoover> You just print the source from whatever little cache you have it in.
22:49:38 <oerjan> Vorpal: um what does that even mean, if code is fixed at the outset it gives you nothing infinite for a given program, otherwise you might have full lambda calculus...
22:50:17 <Sgeo_> Corpses are NOT food
22:50:28 * Sgeo_ attempts to drill that into himself
22:50:37 <oerjan> yes, but PDA's have no cache to put the source in. you can print it once forward and once backward, is about all.
22:51:20 <oerjan> oh and if you interleave it with Q commands it gets even more awkward
22:51:40 <Vorpal> oerjan, a FSM could do multiplication, no?
22:52:17 <pikhq> Or Flying Spaghetti Monster.
22:52:31 <Vorpal> but in this case not so
22:52:43 <pikhq> I'm quite positive the FSM could do multiplication.
22:53:15 <Vorpal> isn't a BSM in the same CC as a FSA?
22:53:30 <Vorpal> and since computers are BSM and they can do multiplication...
22:54:27 <oerjan> you cannot do multiplication an unlimited number of times though
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22:54:49 <Vorpal> oerjan, true, you will run out of memory, or states, at some point
22:55:52 <oerjan> in deadfish, iisssssss (n s'es) gives you 2^(2^n), or 2^n bits. which means deadfish is inside EXPSPACE, i believe
22:56:09 <oerjan> as a function of program size
23:00:31 <oerjan> and an o command after that would print Theta(2^n) digits, so it needs at _least_ EXPTIME.
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23:28:21 <pikhq> *sigh* The US's treatment of post-secondary education.
23:28:32 <alise> The US's treatment of ARCHAEOLOGY.
23:28:50 <pikhq> Near as I can tell, the *simplest* way to go to college in the US without being in debt forever is to get married.
23:29:07 <alise> Get married ... to a horse.
23:29:34 <alise> Can I get a verily
23:29:45 <pikhq> By being married, you can apply for financial aid based on your *own* assets and income. Rather than yours *and* your parents.
23:29:53 -!- alise has quit (Client Quit).
23:30:16 <pikhq> (because you suddenly cease to be a "dependent" according to the financial aid department)
23:31:10 -!- alise has joined.
23:31:43 <alise> Or the popular hit TV show, "that's what I call archaeology"?
23:32:16 <pikhq> Alternately, one could kill your parents and hide the evidence.
23:32:17 <alise> Can I get an AFFIRMATIVE?!
23:32:21 <alise> pikhq: Always the best advice
23:32:44 <alise> Violence is never discouragable.
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23:34:16 <alise> pikhq: DejaVu Sans sucks so much when not hinted.
23:34:25 <alise> What kind of crazy person designs a font that /only works when hinted/ and isn't Microsoft?
23:39:14 <Sgeo_> alise, watch me somehow survive Crawl!
23:39:21 <Sgeo_> On, um, the server
23:39:35 <alise> Sgeo_: anyway, it still gives me a headache
23:39:39 <alise> keeping to the middle square like that
23:39:46 <alise> although iirc you can disable that
23:40:27 <pikhq> Mmm, Mountain Dew...
23:40:52 <Sgeo_> ##crawl says that the Crawl wiki is horrible
23:40:58 <Sgeo_> Either out of date or otherwise wrong
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23:41:39 <alise> Sgeo_: you can fix that middle square thing right??
23:41:48 <Sgeo_> alise, I have no idea
23:42:00 <Sgeo_> But levels are rather huge anyway
23:42:10 <alise> Sgeo_: doesn't it give you a headache?
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23:45:22 <alise> Archaeology: ILLEGAL IN SEVENTEEN STATES
23:45:30 <SgeoN1> What, just because I'm not playing right now?
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23:46:00 <SgeoN1> Obviously, Archaeology is illegal because of me
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23:50:08 <alise> "Good call. PayPal is a festering shit-filled ass boil on the bloated rotting carcass of a dead syphilitic whore floating in a fetid pool of vomit, piss, and misery."
23:50:16 <alise> pikhq: My italic DejaVu Sans is serifed. Explain.
23:53:56 <alise> (Only God can explain.)
23:55:13 <alise> ==> Edit fontconfig.install (highly recommended for security reasons)? [Y/n] y
23:55:13 <alise> gedit: error while loading shared libraries: libcairo.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
23:55:18 <alise> (meant to say n anyway)
23:55:26 <alise> pikhq: I think it's because I nuked fontconfig.
23:55:32 <alise> But, wait, it's happening in Epiphany too.
23:55:49 <alise> (Epiphany seems to be using the old versions of stuff.)
23:58:36 <oerjan> alise: it was initially intended to be a DeusVult Sans with ser_aphs_, but god made some horrible misspellings
23:59:38 <SgeoN1> My dad's AV claimed that 7zip may be suspicious