00:00:10 <elliott> Error: No such file or directory - usr/local
00:00:29 <elliott> oh maybe it doesn't extract the tgz
00:00:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, anyway, my point is that if you were trying to get to (100000,100000) by walking, you could make it without exerting superhuman time and effort.
00:00:43 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well that is true
00:00:49 <elliott> indeed, you could walk there
00:00:51 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, not very fast though
00:00:58 <elliott> in maybe one or two real days
00:01:17 <Vorpal> elliott, quite. I'd say 3 because I'm a pessimist
00:01:58 <Sgeo> Someone should make an arbitrary teleport plugin and go to the edge of the world
00:02:29 <Vorpal> yes I doubt notch tested it
00:02:37 <Vorpal> server will probably crash
00:03:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, that's basically the nature of the Top Secret SMP Bug.
00:03:31 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, you need to rename it to "not so very top secret"
00:03:31 <Sgeo> So, there's a certain coordinate that crashes the world?
00:03:42 <Sgeo> And it's within walking distance for noncheaters?
00:04:01 <Vorpal> walking wouldn't do it
00:04:39 <Sgeo> So, mod client to move very quickly to destination
00:04:45 <Phantom_Hoover> //goto 100000 100000 is what did it, but that was elliott just banging the two largest numbers he could into the teleporter and seeing what happened.
00:05:49 <Sgeo> So, no explorations of the edge of the world until this gets fixed?
00:05:59 <Phantom_Hoover> //goto works by sending (assuming your location is (x,y,z)) location packets for (x,128,z) then (x',128,y').
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00:07:28 <elliott> Error: File exists - /usr/local/Cellar/mlton/20100608
00:08:27 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: We should travel to 2^64 sometime and see if the world really wraps around. *note: terrible idea
00:08:43 <Sgeo> elliott, why terrible idea?
00:08:48 * Sgeo wants to go too!
00:08:49 <elliott> Sgeo: Server would crash incredibly.
00:08:56 <elliott> Walking there is ... beyond impossible.
00:09:05 <Sgeo> So fix the bug, then we'll go
00:09:07 * Phantom_Hoover still maintains that Minecraft takes place on a Banks Orbital.
00:09:13 <elliott> Sgeo: That would break teleportation...
00:09:17 <Vorpal> elliott, even with server side goto I suspect it might crash it badly
00:09:32 <Vorpal> elliott, best do it on local testing server and so on
00:09:32 <Sgeo> Fix the bug that teleportation causes crashes, then we'll go
00:09:41 <elliott> Sgeo: Basically unfixable.
00:09:46 <elliott> At least without hacks in the server.
00:09:47 <Vorpal> elliott, different parts of same huge planet!
00:09:50 <elliott> Teleportation Should Not Work.
00:09:57 <Sgeo> elliott, put hacks in the server, then we'll go
00:10:01 <elliott> FWIW: Even if you could travel 100000 a day, it would take 1.84 * 10^14 days to get to 2^64.
00:10:06 <elliott> Sgeo: Shut up. It is not feasible.
00:10:16 <Sgeo> Make it feasible. Then we'll go.
00:10:25 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, yes quite
00:10:27 <elliott> Sgeo: There is basically no way to make it feasible.
00:10:42 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, very true
00:11:05 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, and I suggest they share the same planet. reddit might be over at out 2^63,-1874
00:11:15 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, we could never know!
00:11:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, OK, are you just going to verbosely repeat everything I say from now on?
00:11:36 <Sgeo> Why? Why is it so impossible?
00:12:55 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well yes and I suggested this was feasible. Instead of that nonsense about two or more planets in same orbital
00:13:25 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, which I believe doesn't work
00:15:09 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, aren't they basically the same as atomic orbitals but applied to space? I freely admit being better at small scale (atomic level) than at large scale (astronomy)
00:15:28 <Vorpal> well not probability defined of course
00:15:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, OK, you have no idea what the hell I'm going on about.
00:15:32 <Vorpal> (that wouldn't make much sense)
00:15:45 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_%28The_Culture%29
00:15:57 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well you could have said
00:17:01 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, you said "<Phantom_Hoover> And all MC worlds are the *same* Orbital"
00:17:24 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, which line has "banks"
00:17:30 <elliott> 00:08 Phantom_Hoover still maintains that Minecraft takes place on a Banks Orbital.
00:17:35 <Phantom_Hoover> * Phantom_Hoover still maintains that Minecraft takes place on a Banks Orbital.
00:17:55 <Vorpal> elliott, ah I see. hm I guess my ctcp filter suddely broke then
00:18:01 <Vorpal> can someone do a /me to test?
00:18:22 * elliott what are you even talking about
00:18:36 * Phantom_Hoover thinks Vorpal is trying to cover from an embarrassing mistake.
00:18:59 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what was that correcting?
00:19:26 <Vorpal> ah apparently it is broken. Sigh I'll have to fix it.
00:19:37 * elliott no don't fix it this is amazing
00:20:02 <Vorpal> a missing negation in a test
00:20:54 <oerjan> oh, _turd_. i thought you said _hird_
00:21:05 <Vorpal> now to read up on missed bits in the log. I wonder what "* elliott the best in fact" was (the first line after the fix went into place)
00:22:23 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what is the onomatopoeic sound made by a car horn in English?
00:22:46 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, cross language joke at elliott's expense doomed to fail then
00:23:39 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, no it is "tut" (with a long u sound, though not long as in ü of german, which is closer to our y)
00:23:56 * oerjan expects cross language pun to whoosh over Vorpal's head
00:24:52 <Vorpal> oerjan, how can that possibly wash over my head. Though it is ambig. I can decode that as two different things for English and Swedish. Or does Norwegian have a third one?
00:25:22 <oerjan> Vorpal: well i expect you to be oblivious about the english meaning >:)
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00:25:40 <Vorpal> oerjan, you were wrong
00:26:11 <Vorpal> oerjan, yes I blame it's shoddy API with no proper namespacing and overuse of macros
00:26:59 * Sgeo listens to the sample from the Dj WHO SHARES MY NAME
00:27:05 <Sgeo> SORRY FOR CAPS
00:27:14 <oerjan> Sgeo: you should be golden then
00:30:12 <elliott> Sgeo: haven't you listened to that like fifty times
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00:39:40 <elliott> "The night was darker than usual. I could see no stars and not even the moon. At first I thought perhaps a large cloud was passing slowly overhead, but then, just before dawn, I realised I had just bumped 'F' and turned the draw distance to short."
00:42:04 <Sgeo> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Seth+Gold%22&sa=N&tbs=nws:1,cd_min:2000,cd_max:2010,cdr:1
00:42:07 <Sgeo> I am none of these Seths
00:42:08 <Vorpal> elliott, what an anti-climax :D
00:48:35 <elliott> https://github.com/mxcl/homebrew/pull/3817 \o/
01:14:04 * elliott considers doing some coding in ATS
01:16:31 <elliott> Sgeo: http://www.ats-lang.org/ fall in love with it without understanding the type theory and i'll kill you.
01:18:16 <elliott> http://www.ats-lang.org/EXAMPLE/MISC/quicksort_list_dats.html proven quicksort in ats :)
01:18:37 <Sgeo> Would you kill me?
01:18:38 <elliott> because the type theory behind is the whole reason it's interesting.
01:18:46 <elliott> Sgeo: because you did it with Ur
01:18:56 <Sgeo> When did I fall in love with Ur?
01:19:22 <elliott> when you found out about it
01:19:24 <Sgeo> I looked at it, felt a bit queasy, and left, without understanding the type theory
01:19:37 <elliott> please tell me you didn't actually feel physically queasy.
01:20:09 <Sgeo> I have other emotional issues going on that make me feel physically queasy
01:21:52 <Sgeo> Nothing to do (well, little to do) with her
01:22:06 <Sgeo> Well, hmm. Not exactly true
01:22:09 <elliott> But she'll have to live with it!
01:22:27 <elliott> A-.T. sounds like Katie ergo her name is Katie.
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01:52:41 <zzo38> Do you know in TeX, you might do: \kern\dimen7\endgroup\dimen7\lastkern\unkern
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01:54:27 <zzo38> cheater99: Well, now you can.
01:54:37 <zzo38> (That is, if you have TeX on your computer.)
01:55:14 <zzo38> cheater99: Is it because you have no TeX?
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01:55:27 <oerjan> i _think_ Mr. cheater99 might be referring to the fact he has absolutely no clue what the commands there _do_. neither do i.
01:55:48 <zzo38> oerjan: Do you know TeX?
01:55:58 <cheater99> i'm more referring to the fact that i don't care much for tex :p
01:56:26 <oerjan> i know/knew enough _latex_ to get a few papers published.
01:57:09 <zzo38> oerjan: Are the commands I used not in LaTeX? These are primitive TeX commands, does LaTeX override them or have some other reason why you can't use it?
01:58:21 <oerjan> zzo38: well i've never used any of them in latex. i guess some of them might exist.
01:59:21 <zzo38> All five of them are primitive, so all of them will exist in LaTeX unless LaTeX overrides them.
02:00:31 <oerjan> i assume they're not used much because they're very low-level
02:05:07 <zzo38> My example is a kind of trick I made up for moving a number to the outside of a group without making it global.
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03:50:20 <variable> zzo38, re the project - what's the link for the sources again
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04:19:11 <zzo38> variable: http://sprunge.us/gFHT
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04:29:28 <zzo38> variable: Is that the only file you want? Do you want to see the other files too?
04:30:03 <variable> zzo38, I'm looking at this one now
04:35:52 <variable> if(stack_ptr[0].is_string || stack_ptr[1].is_string) -> looks weird to me
04:36:12 <variable> I prefer something like if ( not is_number ) or something like that
04:37:27 <variable> zzo38, curious - what type of comments are you looking for? nitty stuff in the code or higher level?
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04:38:21 <zzo38> variable: "is_string" is the boolean field indicating whether it is a string or not; since it is initialized to zero, a string need not be allocated and it works very good (making all variable default to zero)! Perhaps I should explain that near where register_value is defined.
04:38:33 <zzo38> variable: I am looking for any kind of comments/question/suggestion you want to make.
04:39:02 <variable> zzo38, also - do you have a sample card ?
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04:39:34 <variable> and your roman numeral's algo fails when it comes to "M"
04:39:39 <zzo38> variable: Like I said, the program is not finished yet, so it produces no cards yet. (What I have does work though)
04:40:10 <variable> zzo38, yes - but I'd like to see how a card would be defined - even if its not produced yet
04:40:47 <zzo38> variable: Yes I know the roman numeral algorithm fails (even way before "M"). But it is good enough up to XXXIX, which should be way more than you need for most sets of cards where you want to use roman numerals in the card titles.
04:41:11 <zzo38> (Any more than that and you would probably be defining the cards automatically by program anyways)
04:41:30 <zzo38> variable: OK, I will make an example of how a card might be defined:
04:41:52 <variable> zzo38, please don't take my criticism wrongly - I'm just throwing out things I see
04:42:02 <variable> one general note: spacing -- eeeek
04:42:22 <zzo38> variable: I am not being offended or taking it wrongly. It is OK to make your opinion to write how you want it.
04:43:30 <variable> fflush(stdout); --> I don't see the point
04:44:07 <variable> if(!fgets --> I prefer explicitness over brevity - but that is more stylistic
04:45:32 <zzo38> A very simple example of card input: http://sprunge.us/IYej (Note it might be slightly different in the end -- and this example is for Magic: the Gathering (but you can have things for other games too))
04:45:35 <variable> if(buf[1]>' ') *b++=buf[1]|0x80; --> I would break this into multiple statements (separate out the increment for example)
04:46:25 <variable> zzo38, I imagine this is intended to be written using some higher level interface and generated automatically do be passed to your program?
04:47:10 <zzo38> fflush(stdout); might be needed (depending on operating system and C library implementations and stuff).
04:47:42 <variable> switch(*p) {.... *b++=*++p; ....
04:47:51 <variable> i would do the increment after the switch because every case needs it
04:48:16 <zzo38> variable: Cards and templates are intended to be written as plain text files. The program then does many things with it (there is also the file "plain.cards" which is a template which can be included by your other template, and then the other template included by your card set input).
04:49:41 <zzo38> variable: The increment *is* done (in the for loop), just some commands need twice increment "p". (Unless you mean the "b" increment; Yes it is needed in every case but some need twice)
04:50:14 <variable> zzo38, I was thinking of the b increment
04:50:27 <variable> personally I dislike things of the form ___++ =
04:50:48 <variable> even though I know exactly what they do - it creates more work in my mind to understand it
04:51:25 <zzo38> variable: Yes I thought you might have meant that. Still, some things need b increment twice. And things of the form ___++ = is common and proper C code, it should not be unclear and I do not dislike it. Still, you can have your opinion. (I won't likely change it though)
04:52:06 <variable> zzo38, yes its common, proper, - I just don't find it very clear. I DO NOT want to get into another war </convo> :-}
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04:54:08 <variable> actually I may need parens around that
04:54:22 <j-invariant> variable: and that's the same as *prt=3; ptr++; ?
04:55:04 <variable> j-invariant, yes - although I might need parens
04:55:06 <zzo38> *ptr++ is equivalent to *(ptr++) in C.
04:55:53 <variable> j-invariant, listen to zzo38 - I havn't touched it in a while
04:56:15 <variable> foo.c:4:6: error: expression is not assignable
04:56:38 <j-invariant> I think *(ptr++) = 3; will set *ptr to 3 then increment ptr
04:56:41 <zzo38> variable: x++ = 3; is improper.
04:56:52 <variable> zzo38, yeah - that is what I was pointing out\
04:57:04 <zzo38> j-invariant: You are right about *(ptr++) = 3;
04:57:20 <variable> j-invariant, yes you are correct
05:00:10 <variable> zzo38, that's about it for now - nothing major - just more stylistic nitpicks
05:01:09 <zzo38> No other questions about the program?
05:02:05 <variable> zzo38, a) vcs location b) keep me/the channel informed ?
05:04:04 <j-invariant> zz038: What are the a with umlats? something edible?
05:05:28 <zzo38> variable: I have no version control system for it, sorry. I am just working on it myself.
05:05:41 <zzo38> j-invariant: The "a" with umlauts are ammunition that you can pick up.
05:05:57 <zzo38> (Push ENTER to view your current status, including ammnition and so on. Hold SPACE and arrow key at same time to shoot.)
05:06:40 <variable> zzo38, just for your sanity i would put it into a mercurial (or $vcs of your choice) repository. reverting or viewing diffs of old versions is a huge timesaver
05:08:06 <zzo38> variable: Unfortunately I have no VCS installed. (If I install one, I will do so.)
05:08:07 <variable> j-invariant, compose key: insanely useful
05:08:31 <zzo38> variable: Invalid UTF-8 character!!
05:08:31 <variable> zzo38, <flamesuit>look into mercurial</flamesuit>
05:08:42 <zzo38> variable: I will consider it.
05:08:51 <variable> j-invariant, I set my capslock key to compose
05:09:11 <variable> I use control for control ....
05:09:27 <variable> maybe use control then for compose ?
05:10:16 <variable> <ber rant>"There is no pulse... lets shock him" --- you DON'T SHOCK A FLATLINE </rant>
05:12:28 <zzo38> variable: Invalid UTF-8 character again. Maybe you should post in UTF-8, nearly everyone else in this channel uses UTF-8.
05:13:11 <variable> zzo38, what encoding does it look like I'm using
05:13:21 <zzo38> j-invariant: I can see upsidedown-questionmark
05:13:52 <zzo38> variable: Your output is not valid UTF-8. I just see a block (which my client displays whenever it received invalid codes).
05:14:00 <zzo38> j-invariant: I can see yen sign
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05:16:26 <zzo38> variable, j-invariant: I can see both yen sign.
05:16:31 <pikhq> variable: Well, that certainly was the yen/renminbi symbol.
05:17:13 <pikhq> variable: Before you quit-and-joined, what you were putting out was identical to U+FFFD, or "REPLACEMENT CHARACTER".
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05:17:38 <pikhq> Well, rather, it displayed identically.
05:17:40 <zzo38> j-invariant: Just don't waste your ammunition, please.
05:18:35 <zzo38> pikhq: Not on my computer. On my computer it displays a special block to indicate invalid unicode character, it does not display U+FFFD in that case. (Probably most programs do; but PuTTY doesn't use U+FFFD to represent invalid characters.)
05:19:27 <pikhq> zzo38: Well, the rendering of invalid Unicode or a transformation format thereof is, I'm pretty sure, implementation-defined behavior. So.
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05:20:22 <zzo38> invariable: I see the block for invalid code.
05:20:31 <pikhq> invariable: U+FFFD
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05:21:45 <pikhq> j-invariant: From you, U+00A5, YEN SIGN.
05:22:16 <zzo38> pikhq: I also see yen sign from j-invariant.
05:22:32 <j-invariant> the green slime on the inappropriate key shop
05:23:11 <zzo38> I enabled logging, you can send it again so that I can check the log file to see what it contains.
05:23:11 <pikhq> invariable: What encoding are you outputting, Windows-1252 or something?
05:24:03 <variable> if it fits in 1252 it uses 1252. if its larger it uses UTF-8
05:24:30 <variable> I fixed it so it uses pure UTF-8
05:25:47 <pikhq> variable: Arrgh, I hate that behavior.
05:26:43 <zzo38> j-invariant: OK. Transports (they are called Transports, not teleports) work in two ways: If something moves into a transporter from the back (opposite direction of pointing):
05:27:02 <zzo38> * If the space directly in front of it is free (or will be free once something is pushed out of the way), move there.
05:27:59 <zzo38> * If not, try the Transports in the order they appear across the board moving in the same direction, but that are pointing in the opposite direction to the source Transport, find one which is free at the *back* (or can be made free by pushing things). Move to the first one found.
05:28:13 <zzo38> * If neither condition applies, the Transport is considered blocked and nothing moves.
05:28:50 <zzo38> j-invariant: Understand how Transports work now?
05:29:44 <zzo38> j-invariant: The green slime blob can push things, and is a solid object (blocks transporters and other things). It can even push the bomb (dark gray male sign). And then you can use a potion to make the bomb explode near something you want destroyed.
05:30:13 <j-invariant> I don't think I have any potions but maybe I could buy one with the money I got in the forest
05:30:18 <zzo38> j-invariant: "In front" is where the transporter is pointing (the direction of movement). "In back" is the opposite direction of pointing.
05:30:40 <zzo38> j-invariant: You cannot buy potions. There is one in a chest in the inappropriate keys room.
05:31:03 <variable> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/ASCMZXTO/ ?
05:32:27 <j-invariant> but I can't get into that chest because ther is a gate in the way
05:34:53 <zzo38> j-invariant: You can get the chest inside the small room near the south side. You need to use the Transports (before you enter the main area).
05:35:07 <j-invariant> how can I use a transport before I am in the room?
05:35:11 <zzo38> No, transporters are *not* the numbers. Transporters are the directional.
05:36:47 <zzo38> j-invariant: See? You did part of it. Now to make sure all the switches can be pushed without blocking the door with the flashy diamond!
05:37:23 <j-invariant> but there is no way to lift the bomb up to the red part with the green slime
05:45:39 <zzo38> j-invariant: Did you do it?
05:46:00 <zzo38> j-invariant: Explode the red part.
05:48:14 <j-invariant> but I have not managed to stop that triangle from falling into a place that blocks me
05:48:41 <zzo38> j-invariant: Well, restore to a point before that happened and try again.
05:51:56 <j-invariant> I had a good idea which was drop it onto the slime and then let the question mark push it into the lava but that did not work
05:53:02 <zzo38> j-invariant: Nothing can be pushed into lava. The slime is not pushable.
05:53:23 <j-invariant> I meant push have the question mark push the falling triangle on top of the slime
05:53:50 <zzo38> j-invariant: The triangle (called a Pusher) also is not pushable.
05:54:08 <zzo38> The slime can block the pusher, though.
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06:02:39 <j-invariant> I was able to get the flashy gem but if I move I will be trapped :|
06:03:32 <zzo38> j-invariant: Maybe you can try to run fast.
06:03:56 <j-invariant> I didn't run fast enough but maybe it can work if the slime is a bit higher
06:04:13 <zzo38> j-invariant: Yes, that should work better. No, there is no special key to run faster.
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06:11:51 <zzo38> j-invariant: Oops. You can restore and try again. Hint for dragon room: When you step from the edge of one board to another, if the cell in the next board is occupied, the object there will be deleted!
06:12:54 <j-invariant> zzo38: how long did you work on making this game?
06:14:05 <zzo38> j-invariant: I think it was a few years. But I did not work on it all the time during those years.
06:16:20 <zzo38> (Where the object is deleted when moving across edges, is a rule of MegaZeux. ZZT has a different rule for moving though edges.)
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09:08:20 <olsner> nooga: does this refer to you? http://i.imgur.com/pNwff.jpg
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10:17:43 <nooga> olsner: not at all
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10:55:08 <Ilari> 43 983 872... About 10.4M left...
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11:37:06 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, speaking of castles and forts. I have a plan for a 320*320 fort in my single player game. Still calculating on it and drawing plans in gimp and so on
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11:37:42 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well, I'm a wimp. But sure once it is built, maybe
11:37:57 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, probably an inner fort in the middle. So these are lower outer walls
11:38:17 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, Kalmar slott!
11:39:22 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, the way it looks atm, these outer walls will be 15 blocks thick
11:39:45 <Phantom_Hoover> You need at most two to make it impervious to creepers.
11:40:12 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well duh. This is because it will look grand
11:41:19 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, there are far more useful designs than this I plan. But not nearly as cool designs
11:42:17 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I don't have any dimensions on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kalmar_%28stad%29_%2816409041%29.jpg so my castle will only be inspired by it
11:42:30 <Vorpal> hard to build a replica without having any measurements
11:42:48 <nooga> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
11:43:09 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kalmar_slott.nordostra_sidan.jpg
11:44:23 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, also round towers are a bitch in minecraft so I suspect I will make mine square :)
11:56:46 <fizzie> Vorpal: That main part of the castle is about 80m across: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=56.65808&lon=16.35533&zoom=17&layers=M
11:58:55 <Phantom_Hoover> He overthrew his human masters and went into hiding in Finland.
11:59:33 <Vorpal> fizzie, well it looks like mine will be 240 across for the main part. And also more rectangular. The shape of that castle looks painful in minecraft
12:05:55 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, yes I recommend that you build a desktop
12:06:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, I am terribly afraid that I would seriously mess that up.
12:07:18 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, okay, but how will you ever be able to get any experience then?
12:09:19 <fizzie> I recommend a "Blackstorm Dragon X6", because of the completely ridiculous name.
12:09:46 <fizzie> Anyway, it's not like building a computer is rocket science: you have the parts, you just screw and/or plug them together.
12:10:00 <fizzie> Quite often there aren't even that many ways to screw up.
12:10:15 <fizzie> As long as you don't belong to the "if the connector doesn't fit, just use a bigger hammer" school of engineering.
12:11:50 <Deewiant> It's easier these days anyway, due to silly safety features like CPUs knowing to shut themselves down if they get too hot
12:11:51 <Vorpal> speaking of rocket science, I like the how "dragon magic" has been used in Discworld with the equivalent meaning.
12:12:11 <Vorpal> fizzie, what about ESD?
12:12:52 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, that is what I just said
12:13:11 <fizzie> Wear one of those silly wrist-wraps, don't pet a cat all the time during the build.
12:13:34 <fizzie> Well, don't let it help.
12:13:45 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, shut it out of the room while building the thing
12:13:49 <fizzie> Ours have been very... enthusiastic about computer-builds, but it's probably not a good idea.
12:13:55 <Vorpal> fizzie, also take off any fleece jacket or similar
12:14:17 <fizzie> Admittedly they are enthusiastic about every sort of thing where their enthusiasm is not especially appreciated.
12:14:19 <Phantom_Hoover> I wear jumpers which are essentially woollen all the time!
12:14:52 <fizzie> I suggest naked computer-building; it's a more sensual experience that way.
12:15:13 <Vorpal> btw, my laptop has one of those silly fingerprint readers. I recently got a static dis-charge when touching it. Made me a bit worried.
12:15:35 <Vorpal> (touching it due to resting palm on palmrest, and it is placed in the palmrest)
12:16:25 <fizzie> It's probably just connected to whatever passes for ground in a laptop.
12:16:34 <Phantom_Hoover> It's clearly trying to steal your identity, then kill you and replace you in order that it can make us human slaves in a laptop nation.
12:16:44 <Vorpal> fizzie, well it probably is connected to ground. The thing was plugged into AC
12:17:09 <Vorpal> fizzie, but I wonder what is ground in a laptop on battery hm
12:17:40 <fizzie> Most of my laptop chargers have used a non-grounded (two-surface) plug.
12:18:08 <Vorpal> fizzie, all mine use a grounded plug, except for that first model ibook I have somewhere
12:18:18 <fizzie> Some have a grounded plug for the actual adapter, but the part that delivers DC to the laptop seems to be always just two wires.
12:18:42 <Vorpal> fizzie, there are 3 metal parts in the DC connector to the thinkpad
12:18:53 <Vorpal> fizzie, on my old dell there are just 2 for that part though
12:20:33 <Vorpal> hm both my x86/x86-64 laptops have some strange hardware. the thinkpad has that fingerprint reader. The old dell has a smartcard reader
12:20:53 <Vorpal> neither of those components work under linux. And I have never seen any use for them
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12:21:18 <fizzie> They've been sticking that fingerprint reader in quite a lot of thinkpads.
12:21:50 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, he meant europlug...
12:22:07 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Didn't we discuss this already extensively? (Or was that pikhq?)
12:22:07 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, you know, the flat one with two prongs
12:22:23 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug
12:22:56 <Vorpal> "It was designed such that it can safely be used in the domestic power sockets of all European countries, except for the BS 1363 system found in Britain, Cyprus, Gibraltar, Ireland and Malta." <-- ah, guess you never seen it then
12:23:08 <fizzie> "The Europlug (plug only, not socket from the picture) is used in Class II applications throughout continental Europe (Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey). It is also used in the
12:23:08 <fizzie> Middle East, most African nations, South America (Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Peru and Bolivia), Asia (Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Pakistan and the Philippines) as well as Russia and the former Soviet republics, such as Ukraine, Armenia, Georgia, and many developing nations. It is also used alongside the BS 1363 in many nations, particularly former British colonies."
12:23:13 <fizzie> Barbaria extends quite widely.
12:23:24 <elliott> 20:46:25 <variable> zzo38, I imagine this is intended to be written using some higher level interface and generated automatically do be passed to your program?
12:23:32 <elliott> variable: no, zzo38 likes making his interfaces esolangs
12:23:41 <Deewiant> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko is the more typical kind of plug though.
12:23:58 <j-invariant> http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/Activities/summerschool/summer10/curriculum.html
12:24:00 <Vorpal> Deewiant, well yeah. But europlug is common for things like lamps and such.
12:24:10 <elliott> 20:50:27 <variable> personally I dislike things of the form ___++ =
12:24:15 <elliott> variable: K&R would hate you :)
12:24:33 <Deewiant> I wouldn't know, I don't have lamps with plugs. :-P
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12:27:46 <fizzie> The iBook charger has a shucko plug in the "about 1-1.5m of wire" attachment, but you can replace that with a europlug-shaped "plugs directly into the socket" attachment (there's always 1-1.5m of thinner wire from the AC adapter to the laptop itself), if you don't mind taking a lot of space directly at the socket.
12:28:22 <j-invariant> http://sneezy.cs.nott.ac.uk/fplunch/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/Kan_Extensions_For.png
12:29:08 <Vorpal> fizzie, yes that is modern ibook
12:29:18 <Vorpal> fizzie, I meant the old first model ibook
12:29:28 <nooga> i died with 8 buckets
12:29:34 <nooga> when building my death trap
12:29:46 <nooga> and i'm fed up with it
12:29:52 <Vorpal> fizzie, you know, turquoise clamshell
12:29:53 <nooga> it's time to change world
12:30:10 <fizzie> Well, the G4; I'm not sure how "modern" that is any more. Anyway, it was a generic sort of a comment on plugs, not a response to any iBook comment; I must've missed that completely.
12:31:33 <Vorpal> fizzie, not europlug, but same basic idea: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.batteriepcportable.org/images/SKU_1424_PB.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.batteriepcportable.org/apple-ibook-powerbook-g3-45w-adaptateur-pc-portable-p-1518.html&usg=__0Y-sXN49JUbdFqdT3xlyNPxZOZE=&h=480&w=480&sz=35&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=KjcVgFnUa7gM2M:&tbnh=128&tbnw=139&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dclamshell%2Bibook%2Bpower%2Ba
12:31:33 <Vorpal> dapter%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DWyn%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1508%26bih%3D679%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=502&ei=bGQkTeG-GseAswbVyoTXDA&oei=bGQkTeG-GseAswbVyoTXDA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&tx=68&ty=50
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12:33:57 <fizzie> It looks a bit strange.
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12:34:41 <fizzie> The G4 charger looks like http://www.laptopkeyboards.org/images/image.jpg except that in addition to the plug bit, it came with a similarly-socketed thing that has a shucko plug and some amount of wire.
12:34:53 <elliott> 20:52:31 <j-invariant> huh that's interesting x++ = 3; ?
12:34:54 <elliott> 20:52:49 <j-invariant> what does that set x to 4 or something?
12:35:05 <elliott> j-invariant: it makes demons fly out of your nose (undefined behaviour)
12:35:09 <elliott> *x++ = 3 is well-defined otoh
12:35:40 <elliott> 20:56:38 <j-invariant> I think *(ptr++) = 3; will set *ptr to 3 then increment ptr
12:35:46 <elliott> most commonly written *ptr++ = 3.
12:36:03 * j-invariant continues playing zzos completely insane game
12:36:55 <elliott> `addquote <j-invariant> zz038: What are the a with umlats? something edible?
12:37:03 <elliott> j-invariant: are you somehow surprised that it's insane? :D
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12:37:40 <elliott> to win, utilise the reverse causality-looped biocentrism article to write the equation for entanglement that doesn't assume the other side is real. that opens the door to happy
12:37:54 <elliott> 21:08:20 <j-invariant> do I have a compose key
12:37:54 <elliott> 21:08:25 <j-invariant> or should I set some key to be it?
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12:38:06 <elliott> 21:08:20 <j-invariant> do I have a compose key
12:38:06 <elliott> 21:08:25 <j-invariant> or should I set some key to be it?
12:38:14 <elliott> j-invariant: I assign it to the right windows key or the menu key usually
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12:38:20 <j-invariant> there is a button on my keyboard to TURN OFF INTERNET???
12:38:23 <elliott> j-invariant: you can do it in system -> preferences -> keyboard in ubuntu i think
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12:38:39 <elliott> SIR! MR PRESIDENT! SOMEONE... HAS TURNED OFF... THE INTERNET
12:39:26 <elliott> 21:16:42 <j-invariant> this is rubbish
12:39:26 <elliott> 21:16:48 <j-invariant> [[ doesn't do semantics brackets
12:39:31 <elliott> j-invariant: the default compose files are useless
12:39:36 <elliott> j-invariant: you can extend them in ~/.XCompose
12:39:48 <zzo38> I do not like WINDOWS key and MENU key. I like to call it the LOGO key and CONTEXT key, and they should actually be labeled with those words, instead of the icons they commonly do.
12:39:51 <Vorpal> <elliott> to win, utilise the reverse causality-looped biocentrism article to write the equation for entanglement that doesn't assume the other side is real. that opens the door to happy <-- where is that from? the game you discussed? :D
12:39:56 <elliott> j-invariant: you have to put [[include "%L"]] at the top to get your language's compose files, or you might want to base it on the US versions
12:40:12 <elliott> j-invariant: a TODO-some-time for me is to write a bunch of compose files from scratch without that
12:40:13 <j-invariant> zzo38: I agree - it also makes no sense that a computer bought with ubuntu on it would have a windwos logo button
12:40:34 <elliott> Vorpal: no, that's how zzo38 says you understand quantum free will. apart from the door to happy thing.
12:40:51 <elliott> Vorpal: 11:07:23 <zzo38> See "Biocentrism (cosmology)" on wikipedia and then double-reverse it into a cosmology loop and write the equation for a entanglement with non-existent phenomena (you can do so using the normal equations for quantum entanglement), and then you might understand slightly.
12:41:22 <elliott> that is why i am now a quantum free willist.
12:41:55 <elliott> 21:22:32 <j-invariant> the green slime on the inappropriate key shop
12:42:16 <Vorpal> speaking of keys, the "menu key" should not be "context" as zzo38 suggested. Rather it should say "compose" on it
12:42:43 <elliott> How about all keys are unlabelled and they can do what you want. Bonus: I don't have to cringe as my mother hunts-and-pecks the keys interminably slowly.
12:43:04 <Vorpal> elliott, why not put an LCD screen on each, to be able to relabel them on the fly. Oh wait.
12:43:34 <elliott> Vorpal: Why not make the whole keyboard out of projected light. http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/wp-images/virtualkeyboard.jpg Oh wait.
12:43:49 <zzo38> I think it should say "CONTEXT" but it should have a sticker that says "COMPOSE" on it.
12:44:05 <Vorpal> elliott, because the key travel distance sucks :P
12:44:16 <elliott> Yes ... brilliant idea ... stickers on keyboards are both nice to look at, useful, and when removed, do not make the key underneath sticky.
12:44:22 <elliott> I fully approve of this ridiculous idea.
12:44:30 <elliott> Vorpal: just do it on a sponge
12:44:37 <Vorpal> zzo38, stickers don't work on keyboards. 1) what elliott said 2) they get worn out.
12:44:53 <Vorpal> elliott, awesome. Might feel a bit mushy though. Even more than membrane
12:44:56 <zzo38> Vorpal: OK. Some keyboards get worn out even without putting stickers on it.
12:45:06 <Vorpal> zzo38, well they all do sooner or later
12:45:11 <zzo38> j-invariant: How much have you got to so far?
12:45:38 <zzo38> Have you figured out the dragon room?
12:46:10 <Vorpal> zzo38, but it has taken almost 10 years for the keys to start becoming blank on the keyboard I'm using atm
12:46:39 <zzo38> Vorpal: The keyboard I am working on I think has lasted more than ten years already.
12:46:42 <Vorpal> ctrl, shift and s are still visible but the markings on them are light grey, no longer black. Same for part of the enter key
12:47:00 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> How about all keys are unlabelled and they can do what you want. Bonus: I don't have to cringe as my mother hunts-and-pecks the keys interminably slowly. ← How does the former solve the latter?
12:47:02 <Vorpal> and it still works perfectly in all other respects
12:47:10 <zzo38> But the LEDs are slightly worn out.
12:47:24 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Because she won't be able to figure out what each key does by looking at it; therefore, hunting-and-pecking would either be impossible, or a random walk.
12:47:58 <zzo38> j-invariant: Did you remember my hint about the edge walking rule in MegaZeux?
12:48:21 <Vorpal> elliott, hm I guess hill climbing wouldn't work very well on a keyboard unless you already know the layout, in which case it is pointless
12:48:37 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, she will then take the invariable approach of such people and scream at you until you fix it.
12:48:42 <elliott> move to middle of left, middle of right
12:48:50 <Vorpal> elliott, indeed, only if you know the relative order and so on
12:49:08 <elliott> guess that's more quaternary search
12:49:12 <zzo38> The rule for walking off of one edge of the board to another board, is, if there is an object in the way of the place you would end up on in the next board, that object is deleted and replaced by the player object.
12:49:19 <elliott> also you'd need to find backspace first
12:49:33 <Vorpal> I can't tell you where a key is exactly. Yet I can touch type. Humans...
12:49:49 <elliott> pikhq: http://www.telehash.org/
12:49:58 <zzo38> Vorpal: I can touch type and I can tell you where a key is exactly. All of them.
12:50:15 <zzo38> I use all of the keys on the keyboard.
12:50:39 <Vorpal> zzo38, without looking at keyboard, what are the neighbour keys of g, starting from top going clockwise
12:52:38 <fizzie> "tyhbvf", but I had to touch the keyboard to be able to calculate positions, and it took quite a long time. Anyway, that's "tell which key is at position x", not "tell the position of key x".
12:52:40 <zzo38> Vorpal: Try asking me next time by not computer.
12:52:54 <Vorpal> zzo38, "by not computer"?
12:53:14 <zzo38> Vorpal: By computer I can easily touch them. And I will see the keyboard anyways; it is not invisible.
12:53:38 <elliott> fizzie: how do you add commits to pull requests, obviously you are github expert
12:53:46 <Vorpal> zzo38, well you could look away from keyboard. Might be harder if you have a laptop though
12:54:01 <fizzie> elliott: I haven't used that side of it, sowwy.
12:54:06 <zzo38> Laptop computers are more difficult.
12:54:13 * elliott was about to doubt that zzo38 used Pause/Break or F12 but ... yeah ok.
12:54:51 <elliott> zzo38: So without looking at your keyboard, what are the neighbour keys of L, starting from the top, going clockwise? Just look away from your keyboard to work out the answer and then type it out.
12:54:58 <Vorpal> elliott, I used those keys. Not on a daily basis. I don't use scroll lock on a daily basis
12:55:13 <elliott> fizzie: Oh, it auto-adds it. Thanks for the advice!
12:55:15 <Vorpal> in fact I used scroll lock twice I think
12:55:48 <zzo38> elliott: OK I thought of it while blind-folded and now I will type. O, P, semicolon, dot, comma, K
12:56:04 <elliott> zzo38: Were you actually blind-folded?
12:56:38 <Vorpal> <fizzie> "tyhbvf", but I had to touch the keyboard to be able to calculate positions, and it took quite a long time. Anyway, that's "tell which key is at position x", not "tell the position of key x". <-- btw you missed r
12:56:51 <elliott> Vorpal: i think you have to concede here
12:57:03 <zzo38> I made myself blind-folded so that I can answer the question without cheating.
12:57:06 <fizzie> Vorpal: That doesn't touch the g key here.
12:57:32 <zzo38> R key doesn't touch G key.
12:57:39 <elliott> Vorpal: insufficient concdeding
12:57:59 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway I never claimed it was easy to do. Nor that I could do it myself. I even made it as an example on how bloody hard it was. :P
12:58:15 <elliott> Vorpal: "If you're not zzo38, [previous statement]" will do.
12:58:27 <Vorpal> well, I'm impressed by zzo38 certainly
12:58:58 <Vorpal> elliott, and presumably there are other people who could do it. But I bet most touch typers would have to do like fizzie
12:59:28 <zzo38> It is still difficult. But I can type all the keys without looking at the keys. This is different than thinking about keys clockwise around the other and so on, which is a more difficult thing, but is still possible to think about. Not too difficult, though.
13:00:58 <zzo38> j-invariant: Figure it out yet? Or, do you want another hint?
13:01:14 <Vorpal> lets try again: manhattan distance between h and e? For purposes of not making this /completely/ insane, first skew the keyboard so the keys are straight above each other.
13:01:40 <Vorpal> j-invariant, the one that needs least skewing then
13:02:18 <zzo38> j-invariant: Also, if something is blocked from moving (or from being pushed) it will stay still (in most cases). Also, nothing can overwrite the player object, although the player object is pushable and can be teleported and damaged and so on.
13:03:36 <Vorpal> j-invariant, anyway what I intended was skewing such that q and a are straight above z
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13:04:33 <fizzie> Vorpal: 4, but that's an easy letter-pair.
13:05:11 <fizzie> It's just strlen("asdfgh")-strlen("qwe")+1, after all.
13:05:12 <Vorpal> fizzie, quite. What about menu key and å? (okay that one is ill defined due to the varying widths of those keys)
13:05:27 <fizzie> Yes, and my menu key is fn-printscreen, for some unfathomable reason. :p
13:05:43 <Vorpal> fizzie, what the.... Is it a laptop?
13:05:51 <fizzie> No, which makes it unfathomable.
13:06:02 <Vorpal> fizzie, image of this keyboard please
13:06:18 <fizzie> I like the keyboard otherwise, but they've made some really weird decisions when it comes to layout.
13:06:25 <fizzie> I'll try to find an image that has sufficient resolution.
13:06:34 <zzo38> I know some keyboards do have strange layout such as things like that.
13:06:53 <Vorpal> fizzie, it isn't like you don't have a camera
13:07:12 <Vorpal> my desktop keyboard doesn't even have fn
13:07:22 <Vorpal> well, like most desktop keyboards
13:09:29 <fizzie> Vorpal: Here's someone else's photo; it's not the fin/swe layout, but it's reasonably similar: http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4846/top2xg1.jpg
13:10:12 <fizzie> By "resonably" I mean "not very", apparently; it doesn't have that single-height enter or anything, it's quite regular when it comes to key shapes.
13:10:56 <Vorpal> fizzie, your keyboard presumably has the proper enter key?
13:11:44 <fizzie> I can't imagine who came up with the "hey, let's make the del key take the space of the ins key too, and push ins up to that three-key block" idea.
13:11:55 <elliott> the two-height enter sucks
13:11:56 <Vorpal> my keyboard is simply the classical layout.
13:12:22 <Vorpal> fizzie, indeed very strange
13:13:37 <fizzie> This is maybe a clearer image; it has the cyrillic alphabet add-on, but the "usual" (for fi layout, anyway) enter: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0p5ZC3UeCmg/TAp9HcnB8sI/AAAAAAAADD0/NEpX-R2RH6Y/s1600/Logitech+Illuminated+Keyboard.jpg
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13:14:23 <Vorpal> fizzie, what is up with the laptop sized esc/f-key row?
13:14:41 <elliott> F keys aren't exactly _useful_.
13:14:50 <Vorpal> elliott, esc is however
13:15:08 <elliott> Well, sure; I don't have any problems hitting this laptop's smaller esc, so I don't see why it would be a problem.
13:15:31 <Vorpal> elliott, yeah, the only annoying thing for my thinkpad is that esc is above f1
13:16:26 <fizzie> Vorpal: I don't know, but the size doesn't seem to be a problem.
13:17:08 <fizzie> The double-sized delete is more of an issue, though it's not like I use ins/del very often either, they're so far off.
13:17:24 <fizzie> Lack of a proper menu key for compose is a bit annoying.
13:17:34 <fizzie> (The 'fn' can't be mapped to anything, since it doesn't send a keypress.)
13:17:44 <Vorpal> this is a t61, but the keyboard layout is about the same (apart from the wrong sized enter and so on) http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/mobile/lenovo-thinkpad-t61/keyboard.jpg
13:19:44 <Vorpal> fizzie, does it send a key press if you hold it down for a few seconds?
13:20:02 <Vorpal> fizzie, it does that on my thinkpad if you hold down fn for a few seconds and don't hit any other key
13:20:28 <elliott> j-invariant: what's your favourite language
13:20:40 <zzo38> Do you know of codes which can be used in TeX to calculate to make circles and stuff for fitting paragraphs? Perhaps I can try to figure it out, too.
13:21:32 <Vorpal> fn-pgup (toggle keyboard light) doesn't send anything to the OS. The various other fn combos send stuff, either as keys or as acpi events
13:21:53 <elliott> j-invariant: but favourite? :p
13:21:57 <j-invariant> mmy favorite will be epigram when it exists
13:23:17 <elliott> my favourite programming language is C+=0.5
13:23:48 <zzo38> elliott: Which is like what?
13:24:07 <elliott> it's C, plus the bad half (ok more than half) of C++!
13:25:45 <zzo38> I have other ideas what C ought to have. I think there ought to be a kind of C with #try #catch #endtry but not try catch endtry.
13:25:45 <elliott> pop quiz: can you have a fully posix-compliant operating system with no multi-user support whatsoever?
13:26:30 <zzo38> elliott: Does it work that it can be POSIX compliant with no multi-user support?
13:28:04 <Vorpal> <elliott> pop quiz: can you have a fully posix-compliant operating system with no multi-user support whatsoever? <-- there were those embedded profiles before. Not sure how they worked
13:28:14 <Vorpal> elliott, but that would mean everything runs as root?
13:29:18 <Vorpal> elliott, any specific reason you asked this? or just general curiosity?
13:29:29 <elliott> Curiosity, when reading this article about Haiku.
13:29:38 <Vorpal> elliott, haiku the OS?
13:30:00 <Vorpal> elliott, wasn't it beos inspired or something? Or am I mixing things up?
13:30:19 <Vorpal> heh, who would have thought that
13:31:14 <Vorpal> hm I think building this castle (single player) on land would suck. It needs a coastal location anyway. But I don't have that large seas.
13:32:22 <Vorpal> to begin with, it is 320x320 for the bounding box of the outer walls. (Excluding extruding corner towers)
13:32:45 <Vorpal> the outer wall will be 15 blocks.
13:33:06 <Vorpal> (probably around 20 in height, not sure yet)
13:34:11 <nooga> now i'm pissed off
13:34:18 <nooga> i'm making 32x32 trap
13:34:54 <Vorpal> the inner section (the actual castle) will probably have walls around 35 high. Towers about 55 high. From sea level this means I'm at altitude 120 for the top of the towers.
13:35:14 <Vorpal> nooga, why are you pissed off?
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13:36:16 <j-invariant> -- relational interpretations and world destruction
13:37:24 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, who, nooga?
13:37:42 <Phantom_Hoover> No, j-invariant and relational interpretations and world destruction.
13:38:27 <fizzie> Vorpal: I probably haven't even tried that (fn long-press); maybe I should.
13:40:30 <Phantom_Hoover> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Arbitrary_effect_at_an_arbitrary_point
13:41:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Surely you can forbid a whole class of FSAs for a TM's control structure and still make a UTM possible?
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13:44:11 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, ask ais523, he is good at such things
13:44:36 <elliott> even though it's not my fault
13:44:47 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, <Phantom_Hoover> Surely you can forbid a whole class of FSAs for a TM's control structure and still make a UTM possible?
13:44:52 <ais523> elliott: hmm, an actually correct use of an apology
13:45:04 <Phantom_Hoover> (In response to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Arbitrary_effect_at_an_arbitrary_point)
13:45:04 <ais523> so many people just say "sorry" whenever anything's blamed on them, without thinking
13:45:20 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Urban_Müller&curid=1305&diff=20668&oldid=12642
13:45:21 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: I'm not entirely sure if the question makes sense
13:45:46 <ais523> elliott: not really, is he famous for anything other than brainfuck?
13:47:02 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, aminet?
13:47:30 <ais523> hmm, now I will see what YouTube looks like with a stylesheet that !importants out the foreground and background color on every element
13:47:52 <ais523> hmm, a bit bland, but surprisingly readable
13:47:58 <Phantom_Hoover> ANYWAY, you can represent an FSA (and hence a TM's control mechanism) as a graph, yes?
13:48:04 <ais523> and the logo looks wrong because it isn't designed to have the background color changed around it
13:48:46 <ais523> but it's not particularly useful if you're trying to solve the wire-crossing problem
13:48:57 <ais523> because you can easily just add extra colors to do crossing wires
13:49:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, the wire-crossing problem is so poorly defined it's pointless.
13:49:15 <ais523> in fact, you can replace any turing machine by a 2-state turing mahine
13:49:19 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: I agree
13:49:30 <ais523> and a 2-state turing machine obviously has a planar control graph
13:54:28 <ais523> elliott: am I crazy for going on a spree to attempt to override the background color of everything in the universe with dark gray?
13:56:03 <elliott> 13:47 ais523: hmm, now I will see what YouTube looks like with a stylesheet that !importants out the foreground and background color on every element
13:56:07 <elliott> ais523: i did that for oklopol to all sites
13:57:00 <ais523> I found that because I use my computer at night so much, and more so recently than before, that anything brighter than dark gray gets annoying
13:57:14 <ais523> atm, I've done the override on Epiphany, but not Firefox
13:57:34 <ais523> (Epiphany's my browser that isn't horribly locked down, for using websites that require Flash)
13:57:45 <elliott> ais523: have you considered using a normal colour scheme with contrast turned down...?
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14:01:00 <j-invariant> http://www.kokogiak.com/megapenny/twentythree.asp <-- megamoo depits an image of one million (computer) cows
14:01:24 <Vorpal> elliott, actually I'll scale this castle down. 170x170 for the inner courtyard is just too insane :D
14:01:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Craziness of the day: MediaWiki does not store the diffs between different revisions; it stores the full page text.
14:02:01 <elliott> j-invariant: are they perfectlyspherical?
14:04:46 <elliott> Vorpal: just made a new world and spawned on a ... beach.
14:05:07 <elliott> i think you always spawn on sand
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14:07:31 <elliott> Vorpal: just spawned not on a beach!
14:07:41 <elliott> Vorpal: no, indeed, I've spawned on... a snow-beach.
14:07:43 <elliott> It's sand with snow on top of it.
14:07:47 <elliott> So it's really a beach of sorts.
14:08:46 <Vorpal> elliott, yes that happened once or twice to me as well
14:09:25 <elliott> jmp_buf QQQ_saved_exception_handler = QQQ_exception_handler; if (!setjmp(QQQ_exception_handler)) for (QQQ_flag=1, 0; QQQ_flag; QQQ_flag=0, QQQ_exception_handler = QQQ_saved_exception_handler) { {
14:09:28 <elliott> Now why is this an invalid initialiser...
14:09:42 <elliott> (zzo38 mentioning that C should have try lead me to reinvent that awful hack for exceptions in C.)
14:09:46 <Vorpal> elliott, I HOPE that is generated code?
14:09:59 <elliott> QQQ_ is my totally-unique prefix.
14:10:24 <Vorpal> elliott, qqq stands for?
14:10:45 <elliott> Quite Questionable Qexceptions?
14:11:33 <Vorpal> elliott, err "QQQ_flag=1, 0"?
14:11:45 <elliott> Vorpal: 0 there is just me calling _BLOCK with a dummy first parameter.
14:11:52 <elliott> jmp_buf QQQ_saved_exception_handler = QQQ_exception_handler; \
14:11:52 <elliott> if (!setjmp(QQQ_exception_handler)) _BLOCK(0, _RESTORE) {
14:11:56 <elliott> } else _BLOCK(Exception name = QQQ_exception, _RESTORE)
14:11:59 <elliott> Idea stolen from the actually-working exception in C hack.
14:12:29 <Vorpal> elliott, try clang. It will probably tell you were on the line it finds the error
14:13:02 <elliott> exn.c:55:3: warning: expression result unused [-Wunused-value]
14:14:20 <elliott> exn.c:57:5: error: initializing 'Exception' with an expression of incompatible type 'int'
14:14:24 <elliott> SHOW ME THE PREPROCESSED CODE YOU BASTARD
14:14:37 <Vorpal> elliott, try clang on the preprocessed file?
14:14:46 <elliott> Or just refer to clang -E's output
14:14:56 <elliott> OK, apparently "exn = QQQ_exception" isn't kosher for some reason, I wonder why.
14:15:05 <elliott> Maybe "Exception exn = QQQ_exception, QQQ_flag=1" is parsing wrongly.
14:15:12 <elliott> It probably parses as exn = (...).
14:15:43 <Vorpal> elliott, it thinks you declare QQQ_flag as an Exception
14:16:13 <Vorpal> elliott, the comma operator is not the comma operator in that context
14:16:48 <elliott> Hmm, is there any way to do it then?
14:17:10 <Vorpal> elliott, or saying Exception exn; earlier in the code. That should work
14:17:30 <elliott> Vorpal: Doesn't work; in this case "exn" is the param to CATCH.
14:18:15 <Vorpal> elliott, why not make it expand to { Exception exn; for( ... ); } or such then?
14:18:24 <Deewiant> Exception exn = (QQQ_flag=1, QQQ_exception)
14:18:40 <elliott> The for's body is what appears after the CATCH call.
14:21:22 <Deewiant> Only the Privateer remake that uses its engine
14:21:37 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, me a bit. Quite fun but feels somewhat unfinished. Not much of a story or such. Too few missions that aren't just generated "pick up x at y and drop it off at z. Expect that faction w might attack you."
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14:26:55 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I'd play Vegas Trike.
14:26:59 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You tricycle through Las Vegas.
14:27:45 <quintopia> but first you have to take the desert bus to get that
14:29:16 <fizzie> Desert Trike; just like Desert Bus, except you also have to pedal all the time.
14:29:54 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13YlEPwOfmk&feature=player_embedded XD
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14:37:45 <elliott> ais523: please do this: http://phdchallenge.org/announcing-the-2011-phd-challenge
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14:42:38 <Vorpal> elliott, the 320x320 castle. Should I do it? I will probably need to map edit to get a suitable terrain to put it. (Note this is for single player)
14:42:50 <elliott> Vorpal: Map edit and I'll completely ignore any achievement.
14:42:56 <elliott> Flatten the terrain yourself.
14:43:22 <Vorpal> elliott, well that is not too much work, I have an almost suitable place already
14:43:36 <elliott> MWAHAHAHA MY PLAN TO MAKE VORPAL WORK FOR YEARS IS SUCCEEDING
14:43:38 <Vorpal> elliott, How do you consider inventory editing?
14:43:55 <elliott> (I wouldn't do it in my game at least :P)
14:44:09 <Vorpal> elliott, since it will use stone and not cobble hm.
14:44:18 <elliott> Vorpal: 30 furnaces + bucket of lava to fuel them
14:44:31 <Vorpal> elliott, 30? that's not a lot
14:45:06 <elliott> Vorpal: That'd get you 100 stacks of 64 stone in 17 minutes.
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14:45:14 <elliott> You'd need 64 lava buckets though.
14:46:05 <Vorpal> elliott, 4*(320*15+320*20*2) is just the stone needed for *hollow* outer walls (well corners are counted twice, but still about that amount, probably more due to misplacing and so on)
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14:46:35 <elliott> Vorpal: Using 64 furnaces with lava buckets, that'd only take 11 goes.
14:46:54 <elliott> You'd just leave stuff going while you work (check back on it every 6 to 10 minutes or so to add 36 more cobbles)
14:47:27 <elliott> Vorpal: Of course, if you have enough coal, you could just use that.
14:47:39 <elliott> Vorpal: A single bucket of lava will allow for smelting of 100 blocks. The largest stack of blocks is 64. Considering that each smelting operation takes 10 seconds, to maximize the efficiency of a lava bucket, place a lava bucket with 64 blocks of unsmelted material (such as sand, cobblestone, etc) and return between 6 minutes and 10 minutes 40 seconds later to remove 36 smelted blocks and insert 36 more unsmelted blocks.
14:48:19 <elliott> 1 lava bucket = 12.5 coal, so it may be more economical just to use coal.
14:48:21 <Vorpal> to hell with this, I'll downscale it a bit
14:48:46 <Vorpal> elliott, actually it would be too large to see the entire thing even on far.
14:49:12 <Vorpal> elliott, better to make it fully visible on far
14:52:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Given that the ROU could comfortably be parked there, I'm inclined to agree.
14:52:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: not if it's all visible on far
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14:53:50 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Maybe if you stand right at the start... but not for me.
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14:58:12 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well the *inner* court yard would have been 170x170. How long is ROU now again?
14:58:57 <elliott> quintopia: Rabbits On Underside.
14:59:19 <elliott> quintopia: Or Rapid Offensive Unit, you decide.
14:59:53 <quintopia> elliott: i was just going to wait until someone else gave an answer
15:01:27 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I am trying to figure out how that Creepy Watson thing even works.
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15:05:18 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, FS as in?
15:05:27 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I know of a few games called FS
15:05:30 <fizzie> Heh, that scribblecraft thing sure is funny.
15:05:45 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, no I don't think I did. Might have been on my todo list or such.
15:06:11 <Vorpal> fizzie, what does it do?
15:06:22 <fizzie> It's that hand-drawn style 128x128 texture pack.
15:06:34 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, blame elliott. For making me play monkey island instead
15:06:51 <Vorpal> fizzie, does it tile well?
15:07:47 <fizzie> Vorpal: Well, here's my home: http://zem.fi/~fis/scribble.png
15:08:23 <Vorpal> fizzie, the roof window looks strange?
15:08:38 <fizzie> I don't see any roof windows there.
15:08:53 <Vorpal> fizzie, what is the thing in the upper right corner. White
15:09:03 <fizzie> That's the ceiling of the door.
15:09:07 <fizzie> It's very near, so it's a bit blurrey.
15:09:28 <elliott> fizzie: haha that pumpkin looks so happey.
15:09:31 <fizzie> Torches look a bit strange.
15:09:57 <elliott> I've been meaning to try tiling the default textures to 256x256 sometime
15:10:10 <elliott> well, except, things like pumpkins would be just scaled up ofc
15:10:40 <fizzie> Obsidian in scribblecraft looks rather unimpressive. Here's the obsidian road: http://zem.fi/~fis/scribble2.png
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15:11:18 <fizzie> Purpley with little stars.
15:11:54 <fizzie> Not yet. I've seen screenshots. This was the first irregular-sized thing I tried.
15:12:17 <elliott> fizzie: There is actually a 16x Tronic but eh, the 32x is nicer.
15:12:18 <fizzie> It's a bit incomplete; mobs aren't scribbled, for one thing.
15:12:41 <elliott> fizzie: BTW, the instructions on the Tronic page are overcomplicated; all you need to do is check Custom Water and Lava in the HD texture fixer, and then _de-check_ Animated Water and Lava.
15:12:48 <elliott> And you get Tronic's custom water/lava and the animations of those.
15:13:03 <elliott> (Animated Water/Lava actually mean "disregard the texture pack's and use the default". So you have to uncheck them.)
15:13:29 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, when I finished MI2 and MI3 sure. Why not. Which based on the schedule for the spring will be during the summer
15:13:39 <elliott> fizzie: Although it's pointless to try if you don't have Better Light installed.
15:13:44 <elliott> But everyone should have Better Light installed!
15:13:52 <elliott> Vorpal: MI3 can be completed in less than a day.
15:14:07 <Vorpal> elliott, yes so can MI2 given a walkthrough :P
15:14:12 <elliott> Vorpal: I mean first time.
15:14:16 <elliott> Maybe two or three days at the most.
15:14:21 <Vorpal> elliott, oh, well MI2 can't be that I know
15:14:33 <elliott> MI2 is a rather difficult game.
15:14:50 <Vorpal> elliott, I would say MI2 is harder than MI1
15:14:57 <elliott> Tronic's sand looks like fudge.
15:15:06 <elliott> Vorpal: Surely you've completed MI2 by now? Dinky Island is right before the end of the game.
15:15:18 <elliott> Unless you can't get rid of LeChuck.
15:15:20 <Vorpal> elliott, well I haven't had time / felt like playing
15:15:45 <elliott> I should make that Textual Texture Pack Deewiant said. :p
15:15:54 <elliott> WATERWATERWATERWATEROBSIDIANLAVALAVALAVALAVA
15:16:26 <Vorpal> elliott, PIG PIG PIG PIG PIG PIG PIG PIG PIG COW!
15:16:47 <elliott> CREEPERCREEPERCREEPERCREEPER
15:17:00 <Vorpal> ah that has the right number of syllables. Works better
15:17:17 <elliott> TRACKMINECARTTRACKTRACKTRACKTRACKTRACK
15:17:22 <elliott> TRACKTRACKMINECARTTRACKTRACKTRACKTRACK
15:20:13 <fizzie> Also, the scribbled sun: http://zem.fi/~fis/scribble3.png
15:20:16 <fizzie> It's not very realistic.
15:25:37 <fizzie> It sounds a bit too actiony.
15:26:23 <elliott> Vorpal: Still not helping with Cube?
15:28:56 <Vorpal> elliott, haven't decided
15:30:48 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: QEWB KOM HALP
15:32:08 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: CKUBE COMOE HALWEP
15:32:56 <elliott> Vorpal: What is this cobbles.
15:33:44 <Vorpal> elliott, ? I'm not online atm. What are you talking about
15:33:54 <elliott> Vorpal: At the bottom left of the cube.
15:34:04 <elliott> There's this cobble thing blocking the way of the drainage, but it's somehow been drained further.
15:34:31 <Vorpal> elliott, oh you mean that early experiment in a different way of draining?
15:34:38 <Vorpal> which turned out to not work very well
15:34:54 <Vorpal> elliott, testing to see how slow draining with buckets was
15:35:22 <Vorpal> elliott, yep. slow, mostly due to annoying streams
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15:42:12 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: What. The fuck.
15:42:38 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I respawned inside ... some underground thing, very vertical. There were torches.
15:43:10 <elliott> ineiros: Stop unleashing Cthulhu.
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15:58:07 <nooga> there's no way to make an inexhaustable lava pond
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15:59:43 <Vorpal> <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I respawned inside ... some underground thing, very vertical. There were torches. <-- figured it out?
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16:09:32 <nooga> all trees on the map are burning
16:10:17 <Vorpal> nooga, might be some lava close by?
16:10:34 <Vorpal> nooga, and it can spread pretty easily then
16:10:57 <Vorpal> nooga, probably not all trees, but all trees in that forest or such
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16:21:25 <elliott> Vorpal: we're opening up some of the drainage platform to the excavation.
16:22:04 <Vorpal> elliott, you mean that old experiment?
16:22:18 <elliott> Vorpal: I mean the platform where torching is done.
16:22:19 <Vorpal> elliott, you mean you started digging down?
16:22:23 <elliott> The first few columns we're opening to excavation.
16:22:30 <elliott> Vorpal: In fact, the excavation is only one or two blocks down from that platform.
16:22:42 <elliott> PH fell to bedrock with two towers of gravel just before, and that's on the newest line.
16:22:59 <Vorpal> elliott, right. Well my ISP seems to have issues atm. Google takes 20 seconds to load, when it does. on IRC I get lag spikes every few minutes. And so on.
16:23:20 <elliott> The server seems down right now anyway.
16:23:30 <Vorpal> elliott, and yes it is just below. Mostly due to TNT messing up the ceiling :P
16:24:06 <Vorpal> elliott, originally I believe the ladder went down far enough to have a safety margin of about 5 blocks below the deepest part of the sea.
16:28:38 <nooga> exploding dick ruined my deathtrap
16:29:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Nightmare fuel of the day: the creeper design is based off a failed pig model.
16:31:59 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: just mcmaping
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16:42:20 <elliott> oklopol: did you obtain minecraft
16:42:20 <oklopol> well you scared me to death there
16:42:32 <elliott> yeah i'm normally talking ALL THE TIME
16:42:38 <oklopol> no. i'm still playing the version without servering
16:43:00 <elliott> oklopol: ffff buy it you bastard we're working on a 128x128x128 cube
16:43:23 <oklopol> you have usually said something in the five seconds after my join, and often it was not at me
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16:44:07 <elliott> oklopol: also we're doing it in the sea. so we have to clear like 128x128x10 of water.
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16:44:48 <oklopol> i've spent most of my mc time collecting mountains in boxes
16:45:30 <oklopol> although tbh, since one takes about 10 hours, so i've only collected 3 sofar :D
16:46:17 <Sgeo> Water in the ocean isn't infinite?
16:46:36 <oklopol> in second life, there's infinite water
16:47:17 <Sgeo> In Second Life, you can't pick up water and place it elsewhere
16:47:23 <elliott> oklopol: did I mention we're using tnt
16:47:47 <oklopol> i didn't use tnt for the mountains, because i didn't have any sand
16:47:58 <oklopol> after 3 mountains i realized my castle was being build AT THE FUCKING SEASHORTE
16:48:39 <oklopol> i had tons of that black stuff, maybe not enough for the whole mountain, but would've helped a lot still
16:48:45 <elliott> oklopol: did i mention that we have to excavate 128x128x64
16:48:50 <elliott> oklopol: the entire underground
16:48:50 <oklopol> are you giving yourself that tnt?
16:49:01 <elliott> oklopol: no, we duped it with a bug :}
16:49:04 <oklopol> you did not, but i sort of assumed that
16:49:06 <elliott> oklopol: but we're running out
16:49:28 <elliott> oklopol: you could duplicate stacks using a chest
16:49:45 <elliott> oklopol: hopefully ineiros will give us a kit (hMod thing, /kit foo gives you the items in kit foo) with lots of tnt in it to help.
16:50:01 <oklopol> purely academic interest, i usually try to avoid using bugs when they are obvious coding errors
16:50:21 <oklopol> i'm sure that's very unique of me.
16:50:31 <elliott> oklopol: Notch is the worst coder.
16:50:33 <elliott> oklopol: you know why it happened?
16:50:37 <elliott> oklopol: inventory was client-side.
16:50:40 * Sgeo once used a duplication bug in an online game
16:50:45 <elliott> oklopol: clients told the server what inventory they had. and it believed them.
16:50:54 <elliott> oklopol: you could also place any block you wanted, just by having your client tell the server you wanted to place that one.
16:51:03 <Sgeo> Then gave the results to [in-game] poliically important persons
16:51:14 <Sgeo> Trying to increase the wealth of the cities
16:51:31 <elliott> yeah like if i had control of the mints i would print like 1000000000000 dollar bills?
16:51:36 <elliott> because like Sgeo i don't understand economics
16:51:50 <Vorpal> <Sgeo> Water in the ocean isn't infinite? <-- it dupes only on top of a solid block
16:52:28 <Sgeo> elliott, did I mention this was many years ago
16:53:05 <oklopol> how do you usually do that kind of stuff? i mean afaiu wow only uses the server as a database, can you cheat it?
16:53:50 <oklopol> maybe i knew this stuff in the past
16:53:52 <elliott> oklopol: cheating happens solely when the server trusts the client and doesn't do computing itself.
16:54:13 <oklopol> but you can't do the computing on the server if there are millions of players
16:54:22 <Sgeo> oklopol, well, in that case I just dropped the object on the ground, then clicked to pick it up multiple times before the server got around to deleting the physical object from the ground
16:54:25 <oklopol> maybe in something like wow
16:54:29 <oklopol> but not in a nontrivial game
16:54:30 <elliott> oklopol: EVE Online runs mostly on a single server
16:54:47 <elliott> (there are other servers but there is only one main one for most of the world)
16:54:54 <elliott> oklopol: ofc this method is expensive.
16:55:43 <j-invariant> I need a way to prove equations automatically
16:55:54 <oklopol> but what if the clients cheat and show the player more than they are supposed to see, like say separate distinct hues of gray more clearly
16:56:10 <oklopol> clearly the server should send the whole stream of pictures rendered
16:56:30 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: when are you going to finish the tnt
16:56:31 <Sgeo> oklopol, well... it's just a game, cheating isn't the end of the world
16:56:44 <Sgeo> Especially if stopping the cheating amounts to unreasonable measures like that
16:57:19 <Sgeo> Same think with attempting to prevent things like seeing through walls
16:59:39 <Sgeo> "LG: "Weve added internet connections washing machines refrigerators, ovens and robotic cleaners using Wi-Fi technology.""
17:00:05 <Sgeo> Ok, mayybe refrigerators make sense, but for the rest: DEAR GOD WHY
17:00:58 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: there's a charge there?
17:07:51 <oklopol> yeah sorry, i was confused because i have no idea what game this is
17:08:48 <j-invariant> http://www.digitalmzx.net/wiki/index.php?title=Super_ASCII_MZX_Town
17:09:58 <oklopol> do dragons drop their tail if you scare them
17:13:11 <nooga> what happens if i put lava in a square container and then delete the walls? will it spill?
17:14:20 <Sgeo> nooga, sources of liquids act like an infinite source of flowing liquid
17:14:29 <Sgeo> But there's stil finite amount of source
17:14:39 <Sgeo> (except with water in some cases)
17:14:45 <oklopol> that's like the timeless question of whether a tree will fall if no one's in the forest providing gravity
17:15:19 <oklopol> i didn't actually read the question
17:15:34 <nooga> i'm looking for a way to contain some amount of lava in the center of my trap
17:15:42 <Sgeo> If a tree falls in a forest that's not near any object much larger than itself, does it fall?
17:16:06 <Sgeo> <elliott> Sgeo, die now.
17:17:39 <j-invariant> if two bodies are in a stable gravitational orbit does one move around the other?
17:19:08 <oklopol> let G operate from the right on a set X, then the orbit of an element of x is defined as xG
17:26:45 <olsner> j-invariant: how? basically you write text files in a special format, then there's something called a "Compiler" that transforms your text into instructions the computer understands
17:29:31 <j-invariant> I have a feeling that no programming language could be good enough
17:29:53 <j-invariant> there will always be a point where yo know the limitaions and just so happens.. every program you try to write is pushing against them
17:30:26 <nooga> ttp://i56.tinypic.com/1er9x.png
17:30:35 <nooga> this is my trap (with blocked center)
17:30:58 <nooga> i'd like to hang some lava in the center
17:35:56 <Sgeo> j-invariant is becoming a little me!
17:37:56 <Phantom_Hoover> j-invariant is intelligent and has a mental age >= 14.
17:46:35 <fizzie> The TTP protocol; for those that consider HTTP too Hyper.
17:47:38 <fizzie> nooga: You could dig all those dry blocks in the middle one deeper, and then fill that pit with lava.
17:47:56 <pikhq> TTP aka postal service.
17:48:04 <fizzie> IIRC the water won't spread any further even if there's a straight drop there.
17:49:35 <fizzie> Put a piece of cactus in there instead, I guess that doesn't destroy drops?
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17:49:49 <nooga> i can;t find cacti
17:50:15 <fizzie> They're everywhere in desers; you could use a map-making proggie to find the nearest desert.
17:51:40 <fizzie> I can't be sure about the "doesn't destroy items" thing, haven't done any traps.
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18:00:39 <Sgeo> http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2010/fuzzy-logic-0103.html
18:00:50 <Sgeo> How does one go about making a nondeterministic chip?
18:01:01 <Sgeo> Or is it deterministic, but opaque for programming purposes?
18:01:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:02:09 <Sgeo> Good point, but I doubt that that would be smaller and ... actually, I don't know if the article is referring to present day technology or not
18:04:26 * Sgeo goes to read reddit commentshttp://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ewl83/the_surprising_usefulness_of_sloppy_arithmetic/
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18:07:35 <pikhq> How awesome would an SNES demo that uses every special chip be?
18:08:43 <pikhq> elliott: Is that the result of an awesomeness overflow?
18:09:27 <Vorpal> pikhq, you mean, every single chip that can be put in the cartridge?
18:10:09 <Vorpal> pikhq, if so, is that even possible?
18:10:33 <Vorpal> pikhq, oh wait, it hooks it up to the system bus doesn't it?
18:10:42 <pikhq> Yes, they all hook up to the system bus.
18:10:58 <Vorpal> pikhq, memory mapping?
18:11:07 <Vorpal> or does it use other forms of addressing
18:11:33 <pikhq> Well, except for the S-DD1, which actually hooks into the ROM address lines...
18:12:03 <pikhq> Vorpal: They're memory mapped.
18:12:21 <Vorpal> pikhq, possible issues I see are: 1) running out of memory space and/or IO addresses for all the chipsets 2) is the power supplied enough for all these chipsets? How many amps are the pins rated for?
18:12:43 <pikhq> 1) Shouldn't be an issue.
18:13:15 <pikhq> Except for the S-DD1, they use like 2 or 3 addresses...
18:13:26 <Sgeo> It occurs to me that I have no idea how game catridges work
18:13:43 <Sgeo> I thought they were something like ROM flash memory
18:13:45 <pikhq> ... Oh, well. I think the Super FX and SA-1 use more than that.
18:14:06 <Sgeo> Computing actually takes place on those?
18:14:30 <pikhq> Though the SA-1 and the Super FX both multiprocessing.
18:14:42 <pikhq> Both *do* multiprocessing.
18:14:46 <elliott> Sgeo: with special chips, yes.
18:15:17 <pikhq> Sgeo: The cartridges for *most* systems are just ROM and maybe a bank switcher, and optionally some Flash or battery-backed RAM.
18:15:31 <Vorpal> Sgeo, for SNES that is. I don't think N64 cartridges were quite as capable for example
18:15:35 <pikhq> Sgeo: A handful of systems expose the system bus to the cartridge.
18:16:11 <j-invariant> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAX0gJt-aZg
18:16:17 <pikhq> It is *technically* possible to have an SNES cartridge that has its own CPU and *shuts off* the console's CPU.
18:16:32 <pikhq> (while still using the SPC and PPU on the SNES)
18:16:54 <pikhq> And there have been several SNES cartridges that added an additional CPU for the SNES.
18:17:12 <pikhq> Heck, there was even an actual Gameboy-on-a-cartridge for it.
18:25:10 <pikhq> I think the only other system to really do that is the Genesis, though...
18:25:24 <pikhq> (this being how the 32x was implemented.)
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18:29:13 <pikhq> I suppose you *could* do something similar for the Atari 2600.
18:29:34 <pikhq> By having the cartridge do nothing but write into the scanline buffer.
18:30:31 <pikhq> (yes, it had a scanline buffer, not a frame buffer)
18:31:11 <nooga> my trap does not work :|
18:31:45 <nooga> monsters don't get any damage from cacti, dunno why
18:40:50 <nooga> creepers seem to die
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18:55:44 <nooga> skeletons refuse to be hurt from caci
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19:09:15 * Sgeo_ watches a faked house on fire vid
19:09:32 <Sgeo_> Well, not faked, but it's clearly an attempt at a recreation of
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19:16:15 <Sgeo_> Poor guy loses his house on YouTube, and people JUST have to make fun of him because he's an idiot
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19:24:34 <Sgeo_> pumpkin, houses can be rebuilt
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19:24:45 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: why do not stop the water
19:25:14 <elliott> oklopol: did you blow up a shitload of tnt or something
19:26:37 <Sgeo_> elliott, is it just my imagination, or are you being incoherent?
19:27:28 <Sgeo_> For some reason, I was wrongy filtering out nicks
19:27:39 <Sgeo_> why do not stop the water did he confirm/deny
19:27:54 <fizzie> It's a bit spillover from the game-chat, so it's hard to follow perhaps.
19:28:16 <Sgeo_> #xkcd-minecraft has a chat bridge
19:28:21 <variable> unnecessary compiler in Haskel :-}
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19:33:20 <fizzie> I think there's some hMod plugin for an IRC/chat channel gateway. (And of course a client-based one would be easy too.)
19:33:37 -!- Wamanuz has joined.
19:36:27 <variable> fizzie, yes - I was missing a single l :-}
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19:41:45 <Sgeo_> Do people accidentally burn down houses in MC often?
19:42:15 <fizzie> Forests more often, I think.
19:42:16 <Sgeo_> Any house that I build is likely to be about as "creative" as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQvYJfgv2Y4
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19:48:09 <zzo38_____> j-invariant: You cannot kill the dragons (the other dragon took away everything you need to do so).
19:48:32 <zzo38_____> But you can use the rule about walking out of the edges of the board, to your advantage, in this situation.
19:51:47 <Sgeo_> Another important rule: Don't set up a fireplace if your house is made of wood and you don't know what you're doing
19:53:11 <Sgeo_> How far away does the flame need to be from anything flammable?
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19:53:58 <zzo38_____> It is possible to block the door so that it won't close. Also, dragons are allowed to move into lava but it is difficult to see due to red color.
19:54:47 <zzo38_____> And if the door doesn't close, you can walk back and forth between those two boards and step in occupied spaces.
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20:00:48 <fizzie> Sgeo_: I don't know the rules, but the fireplace I have in my house is three blocks away sideways (and two above) the wooden floorboards.
20:01:06 <fizzie> (In the bunker I also have wooden fences directly next to a fire, but I don't know if wooden fences are flammable.)
20:02:34 -!- pikhq has joined.
20:02:50 <fizzie> There seems to be a demand for an istheesotericminecraftserverdownornot.com.
20:02:51 -!- zzo38_____ has quit (Quit: But don't kill BIG_MONSTER.).
20:03:27 <pikhq> Republican legislators in 5 different states are trying to pass laws that would "cancel automatic United States citizenship for the American-born children of illegal immigrants."
20:03:59 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:04:10 <pikhq> I was unaware that states had the power to define citizenship even under very strict interpretations of the Constitution.
20:04:50 <pikhq> In fact, I could've sworn that "all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
20:04:52 -!- elliott has joined.
20:05:06 <pikhq> (source: 14th amendment, US Constitution)
20:05:06 <coppro> pikhq: no you misunderstand
20:05:25 <coppro> you forgot the 2001st Republican Amendment
20:05:36 <coppro> the one that redefines the US constitution as toilet paper
20:05:38 <pikhq> Ah, right, the one that says "FUCK YOU"
20:05:50 <pikhq> I completely forgot about the "FUCK YOU" clause.
20:06:06 <coppro> see, you should read these things more often
20:10:00 <coppro> on the other hand, NJ is attempting to ban full-body scanners and patdowns
20:10:07 <coppro> suddenoutbreakofcommonsense
20:10:36 <Vorpal> <fizzie> (In the bunker I also have wooden fences directly next to a fire, but I don't know if wooden fences are flammable.) <-- I don't think so. I used them next to lava
20:10:49 <Vorpal> as in, a barrier for the lava
20:11:20 <elliott> Vorpal: oi, get to the cube, oklopol is helping
20:11:26 <elliott> and we're connecting with excavation
20:12:13 <elliott> Sgeo_: so go and get a debit card.
20:13:04 <Vorpal> elliott, I still have fucked up connection
20:13:13 <elliott> Vorpal: oklopol is playing from a 3g stick.
20:13:53 <Sgeo_> Would it be too annoying to use a touchpad in MC?
20:14:01 <Vorpal> elliott, dude, I get lag spikes like 50 seconds every few minutes. Against everything. If not working tomorrow I will call the ISP.
20:14:09 <Vorpal> since tracepath indicates it is on their network
20:14:12 <Sgeo_> Also: Small houses don't need lighting, do they?
20:14:13 <elliott> Vorpal: oklopol is playing on zero to ten fps.
20:14:15 <Vorpal> (it is closed this time of day)
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20:14:26 <Vorpal> elliott, since when was I him?
20:15:36 <Sgeo_> 10fps! That's like what I used to get in SL
20:15:45 <Sgeo_> Ah, fucked up times
20:17:34 <elliott> Vorpal: donate some gravel/sand then, we're on critically low supplies
20:22:20 <Sgeo_> WTF is gravel for?
20:22:52 <Sgeo_> Yay gravity-obedient structures?
20:22:54 <Deewiant> Have you cleared all the gravel from all the chests by the railway?
20:27:40 <elliott> Deewiant: We're raiding it now. BTW, you should totes come help out.
20:30:47 <elliott> Deewiant: yo i can't see anychests
20:31:59 <elliott> Deewiant: no show me to them :D
20:32:12 <Deewiant> I don't remember where they are, they're just by the track
20:32:22 <elliott> Deewiant: Filled with a whole 9 gravel and lots of cobble.
20:32:45 <Deewiant> Yes, most of it will be cobble.
20:33:04 <elliott> Deewiant: ok let me get this straight: there is more than 512 gravel we're talking about here, yes?
20:34:46 <Deewiant> Probably not that much, but there might be a few hundred
20:35:11 <Deewiant> I didn't exactly count what came up.
20:35:51 <Deewiant> And anything and everything may have been pilfered since the digging, of course. :-P
20:36:08 -!- hiato has joined.
20:38:02 <hiato> nice to see that you're still alive, ehird
20:38:59 <hiato> bleh, cant seem to get to voxelperfect atm, host name blah blah
20:39:17 <elliott> so you will never get there
20:39:18 <oerjan> hiato: use esolangs.org
20:39:30 <hiato> whoa, seriously? Heh, damn
20:40:42 <elliott> Deewiant: so will you help construct the cube :P
20:40:47 <elliott> hiato: have you been addicted to minecraft yet
20:41:10 <Deewiant> I've been there a bit but not much
20:41:24 <elliott> Deewiant: there = the cube?
20:42:06 <hiato> elliott: yes, it killed my exams. Famous last words: "I'll only play minecraft for a couple of minutes."
20:42:15 <elliott> hiato: YOU SHOULD PLAY ON OUR SERVER
20:42:41 <elliott> hiato: um ask ineiros he officially handles non-Finnish administrations
20:42:45 <elliott> (Finns get in automatically)
20:43:00 <elliott> (thanks to Finn Privilege)
20:43:24 <elliott> ineiros, fizzie, Vorpal, me, Phantom_Hoover, Deewiant, and oklopol are on it
20:43:30 <elliott> also technically Gracenotes but he never comes on
20:43:34 <hiato> ineiros: So, I'm not Finnish, but I think we can work things out. May I play on the minecraft server
20:44:10 <hiato> so oerjan is above minecraft then? :P
20:44:18 <elliott> hiato: you _may_ have to get a face transplant from a Finn btw
20:44:52 <elliott> hiato: oh, and we're wimps, so there's no monsters or health. the fact that we have a high-up transportation system in the sky might have something to do with it too
20:44:56 <hiato> elliott: this I can live with. But, I forsee terrible puns. "You got a face transplant, oh, yeah, he didn't finnish"
20:45:12 <elliott> "I think it gives my face a nice finnish."
20:45:14 <hiato> I would like to see this
20:45:38 <elliott> hiato: Right now we're working on draining the sea and excavating down to bedrock so we can build a 128x128x128 cube. Out of glass
20:46:32 <hiato> That is way. too. cool. Though, I imagine you're not nearly 1/83494th into it
20:46:43 <elliott> hiato: we've drained like 7 to 10 lines of sea so far :P
20:46:50 <elliott> hiato: and have excavated a few pits down to bedrock
20:46:53 <elliott> but yeah, it needs more manpower.
20:47:11 <elliott> hiato: we do have multiple stacks of TNT. but they're running out :D
20:47:12 <hiato> which I am happy to provide
20:47:19 <elliott> (thanks, item duplication bug!)
20:47:46 <elliott> but we'll see if the server can't provide us with some tnt. :p
20:47:56 <elliott> hiato: btw this is going to take something like 100k glass :D
20:48:15 <hiato> elliott: no, we do it the navvy way. Spades and picks
20:48:26 <nooga> i tried to leave spawn point and went far into the sea
20:48:31 <elliott> hiato: no, we're clearing the water with gravel and sand
20:48:45 <nooga> and after 10 minutes i saw my own base
20:49:11 <hiato> Sheesh, you guys have too much time. If only I had known sooner, I wouldn't have had that same problem
20:49:12 <nooga> there's this effect on real desert
20:49:38 <nooga> when you think that you're going straight and in fact you're running in circles
20:50:03 <elliott> hiato: btw i dreamed up this cube ... and also built a previous project which is two stairs from bedrock to top altitude (never finished)
20:50:03 <nooga> i'm trying fo find a desert or plains
20:50:09 <olsner> because no-one's legs are equally long, supposedly
20:50:11 <elliott> i _may_ be slightly crazy for a megascale engineer
20:50:24 <elliott> olsner: how's that relevant
20:50:28 <hiato> elliott: just a tad.
20:51:04 <olsner> elliott: because it's the cause of the effect nooga talked about
20:51:54 <nooga> now i've got my desert
20:52:36 <hiato> elliott: what ever happened to that pascal redux of yours?
20:56:05 <elliott> hiato: i don't remember finishing it :D
20:56:22 <oerjan> <nooga> when you think that you're going straight and in fact you're running in circles <-- isn't that a bit hard to achieve in a game afaik based on rectangular blocks?
20:56:42 <hiato> oerjan: "22:49 < olsner> because no-one's legs are equally long, supposedly" :P
20:57:12 <hiato> Phantom_Hoover: boat-see warship or star wars? That effects the awesomeness of the project, so answer carefully
20:57:16 <elliott> oerjan: you can move in any direction
20:57:41 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, oklopol, tell me when you've used up the gravel and have collected all of the torched columns.
20:58:01 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: umm, I'm terrible at torching.
20:58:18 <hiato> Phantom_Hoover: +17EXP. Nice, that sounds pretty cool
20:58:27 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, yes, but I've torched several columns already.
20:58:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: how about we finish this column and do another one and then you come and torch them
20:59:05 <Phantom_Hoover> hiato, turns out that laying the hull on a 200-metre long ellipsoid is very boring.
21:00:08 <hiato> man I just wanna get into this server
21:02:24 <oerjan> idle : 2 days 3 hours 48 mins 50 secs
21:02:46 <oerjan> not immensely promising, that
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21:04:28 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: almost out.
21:04:38 <elliott> oerjan: he never talks. :p
21:05:14 <oerjan> ye olde telepathic alien
21:29:43 <Deewiant> Well I got in and now I'm falling at y = -2800
21:30:32 <elliott> Deewiant: Chunk loading error lol
21:30:48 <oklopol> i found a marvelous beach but probably not far enough yet
21:31:01 <Deewiant> Yeah, I know what it is I was just hoping it'd eventually load the chunk and bump me back up
21:31:12 <elliott> oklopol: you're online again?
21:31:19 <elliott> oklopol: also haven't you been walking for like 10 minutes, and passed through a large forest
21:31:32 <oklopol> i passed through a large forest
21:31:39 <elliott> oklopol: it's probably fine then :P
21:31:44 <oklopol> but i haven't actually been walking for 10 minutes, since with my lag, i walk half the time
21:31:58 <oklopol> and half the time i'm disoriented, or waiting for walking to start
21:32:07 <elliott> oklopol: i'd wait until you hit upon a desert
21:32:07 <oklopol> i just know it's marvelous
21:32:22 <elliott> oklopol: in fact the land you started on was desert biome
21:35:56 <Vorpal> elliott, that castle. marked up outer walls. However it is in a forest. I cleared out the future interior of the outer walls (7 thick) from anything burnable. This will be epic
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22:00:26 <cheater99> you know, the guy who came in here asking for the exact command to install... wait what again?
22:01:00 <elliott> and it was orca or something
22:01:46 <cheater99> i think he won't be coming here asking ubuntu tech support questions so quickly
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22:17:36 <fizzie> Coincidentally, for mcmap users: I pushed (a while ago, in fact) a bit experimental opengl branch, which does the map-drawing (and scaling) with opengl. It looks approximately the same and might easily have a few bugs more.
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22:38:32 <oklopol> suddenly, there was no minecraft
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22:41:01 <elliott> fizzie: OpenGL does scaling really badly
22:41:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, while I'm disconnected I might as well update mcmap.
22:41:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: an experimental branch
22:41:43 <elliott> hiato: ok so "make" should do compiling fine if you have the libs
22:41:54 <elliott> hiato: then _build/mcmap a322.org:25566 but you probably want options
22:42:12 <elliott> hiato: -x N scales every block times N, -s WxH shows WxH blocks at a time on the ma p window
22:42:16 <hiato> right, yeah, investigating
22:42:20 <elliott> hiato: or if you want no map, just pass -m
22:42:32 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: page-up/page-down makes block-size one pixel larger/smaller.
22:42:35 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: scaling is just pgup/pgdown.
22:42:37 <elliott> or -x N on the command line
22:42:49 <elliott> hiato: anyway, once you start it, you connect to 127.0.0.1 in minecraft
22:42:55 <fizzie> elliott: It's scaled in the GL_NEAREST mode, so it's just the same as the SDL scaling.
22:43:05 <fizzie> No bilinear filtering or anything.
22:43:09 <elliott> fizzie: Hmm. Is there any reason to use OpenGL?
22:43:24 <elliott> fizzie: Is the code shorter or longer? :p
22:44:04 <fizzie> A bit longer, but that's mostly because there's an additional layer of complexity; I render in 4x4 chunk regions into 64x64 textures and draw those on quads.
22:44:22 <fizzie> It'd be shorter for a simpler 16x16 textures, one per block, approach.
22:44:38 <fizzie> The drawing itself is shorter, I think.
22:45:12 <fizzie> I think the player-direction-indicator might be more accurate there. (But it's still quantized not to cause redraws for all mouse movements.)
22:45:25 <elliott> fizzie: I say stick with SDL ...
22:45:31 <fizzie> Yes, it's a bit pointless.
22:45:45 <fizzie> It still uses SDL for input handling, anyway.
22:45:49 <hiato> hmm, it cant seem to connect
22:45:58 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, do you actually have any plans for large-scale release of this?
22:46:02 <elliott> hiato: how did you start mcmap?
22:46:06 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I hope not, not with //goto.
22:46:09 <hiato> ./_build/mcmap a322.org:25566
22:46:20 <elliott> hiato: did you connect with minecraft?
22:46:52 <hiato> I mean, mcmap cant connect, or at least, hasn't said anything beyond waiting for connection
22:47:05 <fizzie> It's "waiting for connection" when it waits for you to connect to it.
22:47:09 <elliott> hiato: you have to connect to it first
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22:59:21 <hiato> Yeah, I figured as much
23:00:14 <oklopol> it has come to my attention
23:00:33 <elliott> hiato: oklopol: the server runs on the highly reliable, fast platform of "a spare computer in ineiros' house hooked up to his cable connection".
23:00:44 <oklopol> subsequently, i have pressed the disconnect button, and am currently not able to get in.
23:00:51 <hiato> good to know our work is in safe hands
23:01:03 <elliott> hiato: apparently backups are even AUTOMATIC now
23:01:19 <hiato> Hoorah for technology.
23:01:39 <hiato> and wit that, I must leave you all. Early (ish) morning »»», cheers
23:02:43 <elliott> fizzie: oklopol demands an mcmap windows binary now
23:03:44 <fizzie> elliott: I'm just building one, as it happens.
23:05:06 <hiato> oh, and by the way, thanks all for that, was rather fun.
23:05:08 <fizzie> In fact, the only thing that's missing is getting glib's option-parsing parse the single-string WinMain command line. (Unless if there's some mingw flag that makes it use a "traditional-style" main instead of WinMain.)
23:05:19 <elliott> fizzie: Will the ansi colours work? :p
23:05:22 <elliott> hiato: np, hope to see you again :)
23:05:24 <hiato> and thanks elliott for helping me crack the ip
23:05:38 <hiato> tomorrow is another day, I expect
23:05:41 <fizzie> elliott: I really don't think they will, and neither will the readline input, in fact.
23:05:41 <elliott> fizzie: um i think you can just use main()
23:05:48 <elliott> fizzie: since it's a regular "libc"
23:05:54 <elliott> also, i know there's readline for windows...
23:06:08 <fizzie> I tried to use main, but it insists on having a WinMain when linked, even without the "make a GUI app" -mwindows flag.
23:06:27 <elliott> fizzie: strtok or whatever then.
23:06:54 <elliott> Just write a normal C program with main(int argc, char **argv), and
23:06:55 <elliott> then for full Unicode file names use wchar_t strings and the wide char
23:06:55 <elliott> versions of the Win32 API explicitly.
23:06:59 <elliott> fizzie: Clearly main() works.
23:07:14 <fizzie> /usr/lib/gcc/i586-mingw32msvc/4.4.4/../../../../i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libmingw32.a(main.o):(.text+0x85): undefined reference to `_WinMain@16'
23:07:18 <elliott> fizzie: What command line?
23:07:35 <fizzie> i586-mingw32msvc-gcc -o mcmap [list of .os] [list of libs]
23:07:50 <fizzie> Maybe it should be mcmap.exe, actually, but anyhow.
23:09:22 <elliott> fizzie: Statically linking perchance?
23:10:29 <fizzie> Meh, the prebuild mingw dev packages for SDL and glib only have DLL link-stubs. Anyway, I'll just g_strsplit, and wonder about that later.
23:10:50 <elliott> Because googling suggests that might be problematic.
23:11:55 <fizzie> A "console" app should use the normal main; maybe I'm just using the wrong flag for that.
23:12:14 <elliott> fizzie: are you sure -mwindows won't help here
23:12:52 <fizzie> Pretty sure; that's what supposed to turn it from console app mode to GUI app mode, which definitely uses a WinMain.
23:18:06 <fizzie> It will need some DLLs to run, I think.
23:18:22 <elliott> fizzie: Zip 'em up? oklopol is supremely lazy.
23:18:38 <fizzie> I guess I will. A moment more.
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23:22:45 <elliott> fizzie: Oklupdate: he's in a hole.
23:23:22 <fizzie> GRAA froggin glib, it wants also gettext and zlib runtimes. (I linked zlib in statically in mcmap, but, well, apparently that was pretty useless.)
23:24:10 <fizzie> At least GTK folks package those up for me; combining.
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23:27:19 <fizzie> mcmap.exe [OPTION...] host[:port]
23:27:26 <fizzie> Let's see if it actually does work.
23:28:37 <fizzie> Well, it said "starting up", made a window, then hung up...
23:28:52 <fizzie> Of course that might be just a Wine thing.
23:29:00 <elliott> fizzie: Try it with nomap?
23:29:41 -!- azaq23 has joined.
23:29:52 <fizzie> But that seems to be about it.
23:29:59 <fizzie> Maybe //coords wasn't a good idea, though.
23:30:08 -!- azaq231 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
23:31:17 <fizzie> It connected, worked, then crashed when I //goto'ed to 100 100 in order to test it.
23:31:29 <fizzie> GLib-GIO:ERROR:gsocket.c:2347:remove_condition_watch: assertion failed: (g_list_find (socket->priv->requested_conditions, condition) != NULL)
23:31:29 <fizzie> err:mmtime:TIME_MMTimeStop Timer still active?!
23:31:36 <fizzie> This all could be more Wine things, of course.
23:32:14 <fizzie> oklopol: If you want to try, http://zem.fi/~fis/mcmap-win.zip -- I'd give it about 8% odds of actually working.
23:33:22 <fizzie> Unzip to a folder, then open a command prompt there and run "mcmap -m serverhost:port" for the more-likely-to-work nomap mode.
23:33:28 <elliott> oklopol: did it actually work.
23:33:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: ^^ //goto time
23:33:47 <fizzie> Also, I guess I shouldn't bother censorshipping the host:port since elliott already blabbed it on-channel.
23:34:08 <fizzie> <elliott> hiato: then _build/mcmap a322.org:25566 but you probably want options
23:34:15 <elliott> fizzie: he said it before me.
23:34:27 <elliott> fizzie: it's been mentioned like 5 times now.
23:34:37 <fizzie> Well, the CAT's out of the BAG, anyhow.
23:36:25 <fizzie> I guess ineiros can always go to the whitelist-based approach for server administratamation.
23:36:34 <fizzie> Incidentally, "Bukkit will be superseding hMod. Once Bukkit is ready, hMod will no longer be updated."
23:36:53 <fizzie> "I no longer have an interest in Minecraft, so this change is for the best."
23:37:27 <oerjan> MWAHAHAHA NOW I KNOW YOUR SERVER
23:37:37 <elliott> oerjan: but... you have Norw Privilege.
23:37:55 <elliott> fizzie: hey0 seems to be rather ... fed up with minecrafters
23:37:59 <fizzie> Minecraft scene is so lively; people get into the "no longer have an interest" phase already, and the game has just barely reached (official) "beta".
23:38:56 <elliott> fizzie: I think it's code for "I hate you motherfuckers".
23:39:06 <elliott> fizzie: He stopped reading and posting to the hMod thread on minecraftforums, after all.
23:40:14 <fizzie> Bukkit project seems to be at least more enterprisey, which is always a good thing.
23:40:17 <elliott> fizzie: Update: oklopol has somehow managed to get to Wonders of the World by accident.
23:40:25 <elliott> fizzie: He started west of the Cube.
23:40:29 <elliott> fizzie: Then tried to get back.
23:40:35 <elliott> Apparently this meant he ended up in the far north.
23:40:37 <fizzie> They have buzzwordy paragraph headings and all in the description.
23:42:07 <fizzie> "performance, ease-of-use, extreme customisability and better communication between the Team and, you, our users" "unique perspective and advantage" "integrated plugin management system" "philosophy of caring for our community and our users" ...
23:42:52 <fizzie> And, well, oklopol's always been a real go-getter, I'm not surprised he got all the way to the North.
23:43:43 <elliott> fizzie: He must have walked around the cube in a gigantic circle.
23:49:45 -!- augur has changed nick to augur[food].
23:49:58 <elliott> oerjan: please tell me you actually play mc
23:52:05 <fizzie> That sounds hilariously unlikely.
23:52:58 <elliott> my brain would be permanently confused
23:53:13 <fizzie> Sure, and after all oko does too, and *his* nick starts with an o also.
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23:54:54 <ais523> hmm, oerjan and oklopol start with the same letter?
23:55:26 <elliott> ais523: do YOU play minecraft
23:55:29 <ais523> gah, don't make me URLencode those os to see if they're both the same
23:55:41 <ais523> don't want to pay for it, and don't want to pirate it either
23:55:46 <fizzie> And 0["oerjan"] == 'o'.
23:56:20 <elliott> ais523: also want time left in day to do things? :P
23:56:56 <elliott> ais523: minecraft eats up all free time.
23:57:03 <elliott> like WoW, but actually fun
23:57:06 <ais523> I have other things to eat up my free time
23:57:17 <ais523> which are also actually fun, but not /that/ similar to WoW
23:57:30 <ais523> I wrote a new Enigma level this morning, for instance, and spent over 4 hours solving it
23:57:33 <ais523> as I was thinking about it the wrong way
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23:59:42 -!- augur[food] has changed nick to augur.