00:01:16 <elliott> oklopol: WHY DID YOU GO IN THERE AGAIN
00:01:19 <elliott> oklopol: climb up the stairs
00:01:33 <oklopol> well i figured it's faster to go from there than walk to spawn
00:01:44 <elliott> but falling in it does not help
00:01:46 <oklopol> well, that's why i went there
00:01:56 <oklopol> i was walking on the tracks
00:02:02 <oklopol> and noticed the entrance to ineiros' hole
00:10:24 <elliott> oklopol: be there in a second
00:15:07 <variable> Learn you a Haskell is amazing
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00:22:14 <elliott> fizzie: Can you please give oklopol a lesson in basic navigation. He is worse at it than me.
00:22:50 <elliott> fizzie: Or at least, I don't believe I could be within short-(or-maybe-normal)-viewing-range of the cube, go into the sea right next to it, claim to see nothing, and then become completely out of sight for someone on far 30 seconds later.
00:23:15 <elliott> and i'm terrible at navigation
00:26:09 <fizzie> I'm not the guy to ask, since I'd lose my own head without having it shown on a mcmap window.
00:27:25 <elliott> oklopol: is it down again.
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00:58:16 <elliott> oklopol: is it down again?
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01:30:11 <Vorpal> elliott, is it possible to change mcmap from using // to something else? I was going to try out this hmod plugin on my local test server: http://forum.hey0.net/showthread.php?tid=94
01:30:36 <elliott> Perfectly possible but I like // and I'm not changing it. Grep the source or convince fizzie. :p
01:30:54 <Vorpal> elliott, right, I assume it is just one place to change it? Some define or such
01:31:12 <Vorpal> elliott, if not I could make a patch that makes it just a define to change it. Would you accept that?
01:31:23 <elliott> i wouldn't, but fizzie might. i certainly wouldn't like it if the usage messages
01:31:26 <elliott> got a hideous define in them
01:31:41 <elliott> Code/mcmap/main.c: && p->bytes[3] == '/' && p->bytes[4] == '/')
01:31:41 <elliott> Code/mcmap/world.c:if (t >= 3 && p[0] == '/' && p[1] == '/')
01:31:41 <Vorpal> elliott, well what about a command line option then
01:31:44 <elliott> those are the two places to change.
01:31:50 <elliott> making that a strcmp would be irritating.
01:32:17 <Vorpal> elliott, wouldn't need to be strcmp. The first char would always be /. It would just be a case of changing the second char
01:32:32 <elliott> but what if I wanted my prefix to be "^å"?
01:32:34 <Vorpal> elliott, and I agree that // is a good default.
01:32:53 <Vorpal> elliott, then you could patch the source. / is very commandy after all :)
01:33:08 <elliott> Vorpal: if it was just a define to change the second char, and you left the usage messages saying //foo no matter what to simplify the code, sure, i'd apply it
01:33:24 <Vorpal> elliott, the messages, aren't they just strings
01:33:27 <elliott> have you got any spare torches? ph has ours in his inventory i think and we need to torch sand.
01:33:30 <Vorpal> hm wait you would need to stringify
01:33:34 <Vorpal> that would be annoying
01:33:51 <Vorpal> elliott, sounds like a bad idea ;P
01:34:00 <elliott> Vorpal: got any spare torches?
01:34:07 <Vorpal> any #define char sounds bad
01:34:16 <elliott> Vorpal: to use for torching.
01:34:30 <elliott> you can have them back when ph gives us our torches back.
01:34:51 <Vorpal> elliott, well no, I carry the raw resources around. I don't carry more than a handful of actual torches
01:35:00 <Vorpal> but I can't login atm. elliott you can have them tomorrow
01:35:11 <elliott> Vorpal: right, well, it's kind of a pressing need.
01:35:13 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway, surely you found a shitload of coal by now?
01:35:22 <elliott> Vorpal: uh why i've been working on the cube
01:35:32 <Vorpal> elliott, when digging below it?
01:35:50 <elliott> excavation is on hold until tnt kit anyway
01:35:54 <Sgeo_> Ecological practices would eliminate your need for coal!
01:36:10 <elliott> Sgeo_: got a better way to remove long columns of gravel/sand?
01:36:27 <Vorpal> elliott, but this makes no sense. those are reused
01:36:35 <elliott> Vorpal: ph has them in his inventory, as i said.
01:36:43 <Vorpal> elliott, tell him to hand it back?
01:36:51 <Vorpal> elliott, I get route not found :P
01:36:59 <Vorpal> elliott, my internet *is* screwed up
01:37:02 <elliott> have you tried in the last hour
01:37:09 <Vorpal> elliott, I tried after you asked me
01:37:12 <Sgeo_> elliott, how do you use coal to do that?
01:37:17 <Vorpal> elliott, like 2 minutes ago
01:37:48 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway don't you have a stack of coal and a stack of logs in your inventory?
01:38:21 * Vorpal decides to use /7 for mcmap
01:39:02 <Sgeo_> "**Torches can be placed on the block if fast graphics is on. Switching to fast graphics, placing the torch and then switching back to fancy will not remove the torch.
01:39:30 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, it can be placed on leaves in both now I think
01:39:36 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, that bit should be updated
01:39:47 <Sgeo_> Why was there ever a difference?
01:39:52 <Sgeo_> Notch quality coding/
01:39:57 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, handled as glass
01:40:14 <elliott> Sgeo_: buy the fucking game and come do our drudge work for us
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01:46:04 <Vorpal> elliott, I first parsed that as "fucking-game"
01:46:21 <Sgeo_> Vorpal's turning into me!
01:46:26 <elliott> "do all the fucking for us, we'll handle the interesting stuff"
01:47:02 <Vorpal> elliott, i didn't get that far before backtracking though :P
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01:58:21 <oklopol> can one of my female buddies come on the server
02:01:06 <oklopol> that's who i'm asking mainly
02:02:30 <fizzie> Be prepared to wait a while for the answer, also.
02:03:33 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
02:37:01 <oklopol> fizzie: stopped playing already
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03:11:43 <Gregor> PHRASE O' THE DAY: "Spices is arsenic, dude!"
03:15:38 <oerjan> ...is there some reference i'm not getting :D
03:17:16 <pikhq> oerjan: No, it's just freaking hilarious and winsome.
03:22:35 <Gregor> It is a reference, but it's way too "in-joke" to just me and some people in PDX :P
03:24:05 <oerjan> "PDX can refer to Portland, Oregon"
03:24:41 * oerjan vaguely recalls Gregor is from there but swats him for the obscure acronym nevertheless -----###
03:24:57 <Gregor> It's not an acronym, it's an international airport code :P
03:26:37 <pikhq> oerjan: But it doesn't expand to anything.
03:26:55 <pikhq> It's just a pointer to the airport in Portland, Oregon.
03:27:02 <Sgeo_> Gregor, and other people who've seen your Facebook statuses?
03:27:13 <pikhq> Gregor: Even without the in-joke-ness, it's pretty winsome. So.
03:27:17 <Vorpal> <Gregor> It's not an acronym, it's an international airport code :P <-- no?
03:27:26 <Vorpal> Gregor, the international ones are 4-letters
03:29:01 <pikhq> Vorpal: There's multiple airport codes, and multiple international airport codes.
03:29:19 <Vorpal> pikhq, it is the widely used one
03:29:23 * Sgeo_ wants to play Minecraft multiplayer NAO
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03:29:27 <pikhq> Vorpal: IATA is also an international airport code that is widely used.
03:29:40 <pikhq> Vorpal: And Portland has PDX.
03:29:51 <Vorpal> pikhq, "Most countries use ICAO codes, not IATA codes, in their official aeronautical publications."
03:30:16 <pikhq> The US, to be contrary, uses its own.
03:30:29 <Vorpal> pikhq, thus I forgotten about IATA because you never see it used widely
03:30:56 <pikhq> Most of the time, but not always, it's identical to the IATA code, but the FAA code is completely distinct.
03:31:55 <Vorpal> pikhq, ICAO is way way more common than IATA
03:32:57 <pikhq> Except in the US, where FAA which is usually identical to IATA is more common.
03:33:03 <pikhq> Because we hate you.
03:33:16 <Vorpal> pikhq, not for international flights though :P
03:33:42 <pikhq> I don't remember the flight codes used on my last international flight, so I can't say.
03:34:02 <Vorpal> pikhq, I meant for navigation and so on. I don't care about luggage :P
03:34:38 <pikhq> Well, for navigation... English is the used language. Because we hate you. :P
03:34:55 <Vorpal> pikhq, well it is in many fields
03:35:06 <pikhq> OUR HATRED IS VAST!
03:35:21 <Vorpal> pikhq, ta det språk som jag använde nyss till exempel.
03:35:55 <Vorpal> (try google translate, it will probably be hilarious)
03:36:00 <Sgeo_> http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/ewr1a/so_i_have_a_new_way_to_play_minecraft/c1bkh2k
03:36:44 <pikhq> Take the language that I used recently for example. English again. And so on!
03:36:59 <pikhq> That is astoundingly close to being comprehensible.
03:37:28 <pikhq> I bet machine translation between Germanic languages is easier than the general case.
03:38:14 <Vorpal> <Sgeo_> http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/ewr1a/so_i_have_a_new_way_to_play_minecraft/c1bkh2k <-- tried that on smaller scale
03:38:23 <variable> pikhq, not necc. using google's algorithms
03:38:33 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, as in, a few minutes in nether and then 4-5 hours to trek home
03:38:42 <variable> pikhq, for most language parsing based translators you would be right
03:38:54 <Sgeo_> Vorpal, 4-5 HOURS?
03:38:56 <variable> but Google does not parse the language in order to translae
03:39:00 <Vorpal> <pikhq> Take the language that I used recently for example. English again. And so on! <-- quite indeed
03:39:05 <Vorpal> pikhq, it made perfect sense
03:39:20 <pikhq> variable: Presumably because even just naively "translating" the words verbatim would get you in the ballpark.
03:39:41 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, yes. There was a huge lake in the way and some pretty sights. And the terrain was very uneven.
03:39:48 <variable> pikhq, I read a few whitepapers on how google does translation
03:39:54 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, I could probably have managed 1-2 hours if I had rushed
03:40:03 <pikhq> Ah, yeah, Google's is statistical based on its crawling, isn't it?
03:40:28 <variable> they take "known good" translations (such as wikipedia)
03:41:03 <variable> and use some very interesting models to figure out which _phrases_ translate roughly to other phrases
03:41:18 <variable> ie: google does NOT know which words are nouns and which verbs
03:41:53 <pikhq> And that's why you get hilarious translations from it sometimes.
03:42:00 <pikhq> IIRC something like Venice → New York.
03:42:34 <variable> pikhq, one of the funniest things to do is to translate from Eng -> French -> Eng -> French -> Eng ...
03:42:48 <Vorpal> variable, leads to curios results sometimes. Such as "the official denied any knowledge of" turning into "the official denied not knowing anything about" (approx) once when I translated from Norwegian to Swedish.
03:43:25 <Vorpal> variable, and that was not iterative
03:43:59 <variable> Vorpal, you can "correct" the translations and over time Google will learn the new phrases
03:44:10 <Vorpal> pikhq, other known ones: inch -> cm. TT -> AP (TT is a Swedish news agency, AP is a completely different one)
03:44:46 <variable> because google doesn't know what it is translating
03:45:00 <Vorpal> variable, now I just hope they don't do sv:mil -> en:mile. Because a Swedish mile is 10 km
03:45:02 <variable> it only knows that the two phrases occur at the right places in multiple documents
03:45:27 <Vorpal> which is even more off than km
03:45:30 <pikhq> Vorpal: That probably depends on time period.
03:45:52 <Vorpal> pikhq, oh, length of mile
03:45:56 <Vorpal> pikhq, I meant modern mile
03:46:11 <Vorpal> pikhq, as you might say "it is 10 mile to that city" or such
03:46:16 <oerjan> `translatefromto no sv Tjenestemannen benektet ethvert kjennskap til
03:46:31 <Vorpal> oerjan, hackego not here
03:46:36 <pikhq> Hmm. Actually, the traditional Swedish mil unit was actually close to 10 km.
03:46:50 <Vorpal> pikhq, possibly. I'm no history expert.
03:47:00 <pikhq> According to Wikipedia, that is.
03:47:15 <pikhq> variable: Yeah, Ørjan.
03:47:17 <Vorpal> pikhq, but a modern Swedish mil is 10 km
03:47:31 <pikhq> Vorpal: Instead of 10,688 m.
03:47:43 <oerjan> variable: that was just attempting to reconstruct Vorpal's example
03:47:44 <pikhq> (11,295 m in Norway)
03:47:46 <variable> oerjan, how do you pronounce ø ?
03:47:46 <Vorpal> pikhq, there were different mil iirc
03:47:57 <Vorpal> pikhq, like, for different purposes
03:48:10 <pikhq> That was the, ah, "land mile" or "long mile".
03:48:22 <Vorpal> pikhq, travel by coach-mil I think?
03:48:28 <Vorpal> pikhq, vs. a few other land ones
03:48:30 <variable> oerjan, if you can give me a good recording to listen to that would be awesome!
03:48:32 <pikhq> Vorpal: I bet you had stuff like the nautical mile as well, and of course the statue mile.
03:48:42 <Vorpal> pikhq, statue, could be it
03:48:46 <variable> also - anyone here speak Persian ?
03:48:49 <oerjan> variable: low frontal rounded. also i have no microphone.
03:49:18 <oerjan> or possibly mid frontal rounded, somewhere around there
03:49:18 <Vorpal> oerjan, don't you pronounce it like ö?
03:49:18 <pikhq> The statute mile being, of course, 1,609.344 m.
03:49:46 <Vorpal> pikhq, what was the point of statue mile?
03:49:59 <Sgeo_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11847921/Images/Games/Minecraft/screenshots/Heatsink.jpg why isn't the water flowing?
03:50:05 <oerjan> Vorpal: pretty close yes, i'm sure there is _some_ difference...
03:50:11 <pikhq> Vorpal: Defined by Act of Parliament!
03:50:50 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, proably it flows down due to hole?
03:50:56 <pikhq> To define a standard system of measurements across Her Majesty's Realm.
03:50:59 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, check wiki for rules on water
03:51:49 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, nice building though
03:51:59 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, and it is flowing. Right down
03:52:49 <Sgeo_> Vorpal, I saw you the first time
03:53:32 <Sgeo_> You didn't need to repeat yourself
03:53:37 <pikhq> The US, to be contrary, also has the survey foot.
03:53:40 <pikhq> And related units.
03:53:55 <pikhq> Which are *almost* identical.
03:54:55 <pikhq> God, I hate the US's units.
03:55:18 <pikhq> variable: As am I.
03:55:39 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, relevant page is http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Fluids
03:55:46 <pikhq> Near Colorado Springs, CO.
03:56:02 <variable> pikhq, I'm from the center of the world: New York :-}
03:56:12 <pikhq> Oh, sure, be near population. :P
03:56:59 <pikhq> Well. I suppose I'm near population. One of the few regions of population density in, oh, the surrounding few-hundred-kilometer radius.
03:58:09 <Sgeo_> My dad's claiming that with my study habits, I would not have survived at a decent college, and it's the post-graduate college that matters anyway
03:58:27 <variable> Sgeo_, grad school matters the most
03:58:39 <variable> Sgeo_, curious - which uni are you in?
03:58:43 <pikhq> Seriously, the nearest place of notable population going west is a 920 kilometer drive...
03:59:00 <variable> Sgeo_, I'm in SUNY Binghamton :-)
03:59:00 <Sgeo_> Where the professors are idiots, the students are idiots
03:59:26 <pikhq> West, it's... 967 km.
03:59:36 <variable> Sgeo_, you could probably transfer around the SUNYs fairly easily
03:59:56 <pikhq> Vorpal: The US is freaking huge, and the west is sparsely populated.
04:00:05 <Sgeo_> variable, taking Computer Programming/Information Systems, need to work out if it's viable to do CS at Stony Brook for post-grad
04:00:33 <Vorpal> pikhq, it is like 200 km to Stockholm from here... And I consider that far. Well not as far as going to north Sweden.
04:00:46 <pikhq> Vorpal: Look at a map of the US on Google Maps. Realise that that's about the size of Europe.
04:01:43 <pikhq> For me to go to the capital of the US would be a 28 hour trip driving straight...
04:02:24 <Vorpal> pikhq, take the sleeper train. Oh wait.
04:02:53 <variable> pikhq, I'm in the real capital of the US..... if I wanted to go to the political capital on the other hand..... </joke>
04:03:10 <pikhq> variable: You could actually take a train there.
04:03:22 * Sgeo_ suddenly wants to build a huge automatic elevator
04:03:31 <variable> pikhq, yes, I'm aware. I was joking about NY being the captial
04:03:42 <Sgeo_> Including automatic rests for breathing as needed
04:04:05 <pikhq> variable: Well, it is the *largest* city in the US.
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04:06:05 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, you mean boatlevator?
04:06:14 <Sgeo_> Vorpal, there are other kinds?
04:06:26 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, no breathing rests required. Even when going from bottom to top of map
04:06:30 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, it is too fast for that
04:06:58 <Sgeo_> Awwww, I wanted to build breathing rests
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04:07:03 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, you could try out the one I have at my place on the server. When you buy the game and ineiros let you on
04:07:05 <Sgeo_> Remove the ceiling!
04:07:10 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, it goes nearly to the top
04:07:42 <Vorpal> I think it is alt 4 -> alt 110 or something like that
04:09:51 <Sgeo_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pDe7CKGgWA&feature=related actually says that it's the need to collect resources that makes MC interesting
04:11:07 <Sgeo_> Person doesn't know how to make scaffolds
04:13:01 <Sgeo_> Well, actually, I guess that works
04:13:01 <pikhq> There's a customary US fluid ounce and a food nutrition labelling US fluid ounce.
04:13:07 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, boat loop is simple
04:13:11 <Sgeo_> Probably better, too. Easy to remove
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04:13:29 <Sgeo_> Vorpal, I'm talking about the method this person is using to get back up when he fell
04:13:30 <pikhq> The customary once is *defined as* 29.5735295625 mL. The labelling one is 30 mL.
04:13:32 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, it you come on the server tomorrow I can show you
04:13:56 <Sgeo_> Vorpal, no chance I'll get MC by tomorrow
04:15:33 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, in my method that is no issue. You dig two spiral staircases down. one 2x2, one 2x3. Separated by 5 blocks. then connect them at the bottom . Close up top of 2x3. Place water along the far edge. Fix bottom end of loop (this is hardest). Remove stairs in the holes, starting from top. Finally Open up top of 2x3 so water can flow down as well
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04:22:02 <Sgeo_> It will be possible to use redstone to have music blocks play, right?/
04:22:48 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, as far as I heard yes
04:23:18 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, anyway I prefer a larger loop variant
04:23:30 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, more reliable, more time to get out and in of
04:24:21 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, besides in total it needs 2x5 digging, not 2x9. Though the 2x5 is spread out into two separate holes with some distance in between
04:29:30 <Sgeo_> No elevators on the Reddit servers
04:30:01 <Sgeo_> What happens if you use lava (not banned) and accidentally start a forest fire?
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04:38:22 <Sgeo_> <Sgeo_> Is the current vocab system the final system that will be in Factor 1.0?
04:38:29 <Sgeo_> I don't know why I bothered to ask
04:38:40 <Sgeo_> Hey, shutup shat up!
04:39:09 <Sgeo_> Ok, "shat" is almost certainly not .. does "shut" as a past tense work?
04:40:54 <oerjan> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shut
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04:57:01 <Mathnerd314> a programming language with *portals*... that would be interesting
04:57:54 <Sgeo> Mathnerd314, oooooooooshowme
04:58:12 * Sgeo falls in love with a possibly not yet existent language
05:00:40 <oerjan> might be useful for distributed programming
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05:08:08 <Mathnerd314> curses, there's already a portal programming language: http://www.google.com/search?tbo=1&tbs=bks%3A1&q=editions%3Aeqevfg0_XtQC
05:13:34 * Sgeo falls in love with PORTAL
05:14:52 <Sgeo> Why haven't I heard of PORTAL before?
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05:37:02 <Mathnerd314> because it's an esoteric research language that nobody uses?
05:39:04 -!- azaq231 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
05:45:35 <pikhq> Mathnerd314: I do believe this is #esoteric.
05:45:44 <pikhq> Esoteric languages are sort of our thing.
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06:16:24 * oerjan chuckles at r/circlejerk's latest antics
06:16:46 -!- pikhq has joined.
06:17:45 <oerjan> http://www.reddit.com/r/circlejerk/comments/ewmac/for_every_500_upvotes_this_submission_gets_i_will/
06:17:52 <Sgeo> AFAICT, PORTAL was meant to be a practical language
06:21:19 <Sgeo> http://www.theonion.com/articles/who-was-i-and-why-was-i-important-again,18715/?utm_souce=popbox this is what elliott wants me to be
06:25:04 <pikhq> I still love that the US's national anthem is originally a drinking song.
06:28:43 <Gregor> Mythbusters sez: Sneeze into your elbow.
06:30:04 <pikhq> pikhq says: next performance of the US national anthem, be sure to sing "To Anacreon in Heav'n, where he sat in full glee" ...
06:50:20 <Sgeo> I think I should just sneeze on the nearest hatted person
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07:36:18 * Sgeo suddenly realizes the obvious reason that shutup wasn't talking
07:36:36 <Sgeo> <shutup> Shut up about shutup!
07:36:54 <Sgeo> oerjan, elliott not being online to run the bot
07:37:09 <Sgeo> And updog's presense here disproves my theory
07:37:24 <Sgeo> Unless... shutup gets its cues from elliott's client
07:37:34 <oerjan> hm i thought it could be updog too...
07:37:47 <Sgeo> shutup is, in fact, awake
07:38:16 <Sgeo> Don't know why I didn't get a response earlier
07:38:20 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
07:38:29 <Sgeo> <Sgeo_> Is the current vocab system the final system that will be in Factor 1.0?
07:39:20 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
07:39:36 * Sgeo glares at the kicked updog menacingly
07:39:44 <Sgeo> Well, at least we know that oerjan kicks dogs
07:40:32 <Sgeo> So yeah, updog feeds shutup
07:44:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
07:46:02 <Sgeo> Got yet another Spam IM with a suspicious message
07:46:08 <Sgeo> This time, I plan on clicking
07:46:18 * Sgeo downloads TinyCore
07:51:14 <Sgeo> Now, as soon as I figure out how to install a browser on this thing
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08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:02:28 * Sgeo gets it working
08:02:50 <Sgeo> It's a thing claiming to give a free Blackberry Torch
08:13:49 <Sgeo> Started lagging out :/
08:14:01 <Sgeo> Also started fearing that maybe Freenode decided I was a spammer or somesuch
08:14:40 <Sgeo> j-invariant, was expecting malware or ... what do those fake contest things DO, exactly?
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08:52:47 <j-invariant> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specker_sequence
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12:10:01 <Sgeo> It's distressing that I couldn't figure out how to change the resolution in SLAX
12:12:42 <Sgeo> http://tinymelinux.com/doku.php/download#bittorrent-recommended
12:12:50 <Sgeo> I don't see a torrent on that page
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12:19:34 <Sgeo> VirtualBox is beginning to piss me off
12:39:27 <Sgeo> SimplyMEPIS has THREE seeders
12:39:27 <cheater99> at least it's not doing anything unexpected
12:39:30 <Sgeo> That's depressing
12:39:46 <Sgeo> Even f****n JOLICLOUD has more
12:39:48 <cheater99> what's simplymepis? (i can't use the web right now)
12:40:19 <Sgeo> Because I'm exploring Linux distros right now
12:40:43 <Sgeo> Or.. did you mean for this channel?
12:40:55 <cheater99> what have you found to be noteworthy so far?
12:41:14 <Sgeo> The download hasn't finished yet
12:41:32 <cheater99> but you may have tried other linuces
12:41:43 <Sgeo> SLAX is still using KDE 3.something
12:42:00 <Sgeo> Saw something in the forums suggesting that it doesn't have latest ntfs-3g or somesuch
12:42:20 <Sgeo> TinyCore boots up REALLY FRIGGEN FAST
12:42:31 <cheater99> i mean as far as *interesting* things, not "things that ubuntu does easily"
12:44:10 <Sgeo> I've decided that my honeymoon with VirtualBox is over.
12:44:14 <cheater99> what other distros have you tried?
12:44:17 <Sgeo> I'm about to download VMWare Server
12:44:46 <Sgeo> Recently, or in the past?
12:45:23 <Sgeo> Um, just TinyCore and SLAX
12:45:27 <cheater99> to me it feels like most distros try and fail at copying several of the big ones
12:50:31 <Sgeo> Dear VMWare: I live in Schenectady. Love, Sgeo.
12:50:48 <Sgeo> [Note: I do not live in Schenectady]
13:06:13 <Sgeo> They do seem to check that the city you put in is real
13:06:28 <Sgeo> I didn't test whether or not it requires the matching ZIP code
13:06:43 <Sgeo> I put in 12345, which is for General Electric in Schnectady
13:08:49 <Sgeo> To find one I like!
13:09:52 * Sgeo misparsed that at first
13:10:26 <Sgeo> Relatively stupid stuff, mostly
13:11:01 <Sgeo> Only one I ever HATED that I can remember is Linux XP
13:16:31 <Sgeo> Why does VMWare Server feel a need to download a Java Runtime Environment?
13:16:45 <Sgeo> VirtualBox maybe I'd understand
13:17:03 * Sgeo wants to shoot Su.. oh wait, Oracle did that and is now being evil
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13:43:57 <Sgeo> So: VMWare Server now makes your computer into a server, and the UI is a webpage
13:44:02 <Sgeo> Why didn't I see this coming?
13:47:52 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, because visibility inside your blood fursuit is poor.
13:48:18 * Phantom_Hoover restarts XChat to get the bloody thing to register my default nick changes.
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13:49:59 <Sgeo> I'm pretty sure pikhq warned me about this, but I ignored him because I thought he was talking about crappy internal architecture
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14:35:37 * Sgeo lols at the existence of ipv6-literal.net
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15:00:06 <Vorpal> fizzie, a question about mcmap: does water really block tp? Because when you ended up sub-surface in an unloaded chunk tp out of there would be /very/ useful
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15:03:52 <fizzie> I'll fix that thing at some point.
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15:04:39 <oklopol> how's that win version coming
15:05:22 <oklopol> would be nice to get home, i managed to convince myself i had a way to look at coordinates as much as i like, and decided to take a random walk
15:05:41 <Vorpal> oklopol, you can use f3 to see coords
15:05:41 <oklopol> then turns out once i started using my great idea, i had a constant amount of look-ups :D
15:05:51 <oklopol> or you can, 5 times in a game
15:06:02 <Vorpal> oklopol, not you confused me
15:06:14 <oklopol> a red square goes on top of the numbers
15:06:24 <Vorpal> oklopol, ah yes, I heard that was a problem on smaller screens
15:06:25 <fizzie> You just have a too small window.
15:06:39 <Vorpal> oklopol, the graph thingy I assume?
15:06:43 <oklopol> too small resolution more like
15:07:01 <Vorpal> oklopol, it is fine with a maximised window on my 24" desktop monitor ;)
15:07:03 <fizzie> Anyhows, I don't know about the win binary, did it not work?
15:07:15 <oklopol> as i said, this is a very old crt
15:07:27 <oklopol> oh i didn't know it existed yet
15:07:41 <fizzie> It is probably very buggy.
15:08:04 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/~fis/mcmap-win.zip if I remember right.
15:08:19 <fizzie> The no-map mode might work if you just need a //goto.
15:08:46 <fizzie> For me it crashed on //goto, but it looked like it actually teleported first, so it might sorta-work.
15:08:47 <oklopol> all i want is to look at coordinates
15:09:05 <fizzie> Well, I don't think that works in nomap mode yet.
15:09:20 <fizzie> I can fixize that after I get home.
15:09:41 <Vorpal> fizzie, a feature request would be to turn the second letter of the command prefix into a #define or command line option. I was trying out a hmod plugin on my local test server that uses // as prefix. I patched it locally but it seems rather hackish. And // is a good default for most people.
15:09:49 <oklopol> i have to constantly look up to know where north is, because i can't see any landmarks with tiny, and it's very hard to keep track locally because whenever i move my mouse, one second later, all that is collected into a random turn
15:10:15 <fizzie> There is a /compass command, right.
15:10:18 <oklopol> (constantly look up and switch to normal)
15:10:26 <fizzie> It tells you which way you are looking at.
15:10:37 <fizzie> Doesn't tell you where you are, though.
15:11:53 <oklopol> maybe when i randomly find my way back, and no, i don't want your help and annoying comments
15:12:01 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, idea: get worldedit hmod plugin. stand next to water, use //drain 128
15:12:58 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, worldedit *is* an in-game map editor
15:13:00 <oklopol> btw there was a random boat in the water, i decided to steal it since they are practically free
15:13:14 <oklopol> that was a few blocks south
15:13:20 <Vorpal> oklopol, in the water where btw?
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15:13:44 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, it works better than the free standing ones I tried.
15:14:08 <oklopol> also, i should probably continue playing, i just randomly bumped into one of your bridges
15:14:11 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, indeed, I didn't claim it was. Was just a general statement.
15:14:12 <Phantom_Hoover> The point of this is to build it with legitimate-but-for-kits methods.
15:14:22 <oklopol> hours of walking in the dark and suddenly: bridge.
15:14:27 <Vorpal> oklopol, bridges hm. Must be near spawn?
15:14:33 <Vorpal> oklopol, or wait. Very far south?
15:15:02 <Vorpal> oklopol, do you have an in-game compass (those always point towards spawn)
15:15:11 <oklopol> gonna try to see if there's something familiar there, being near spawn has been a rather confusing experience, since i've always been following a guy who randomly jumps 30 blocks at a time and calls me a retard
15:15:15 <Vorpal> using that and /compass you could tell general direction from spawn
15:15:22 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, if you don't have a compass I can give you one.
15:15:39 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, same. But I have to do some RL stuff now. bbs
15:15:46 <oklopol> might be fun i guess, i wish there was an in-game coordinate gadget
15:16:50 <oklopol> Vorpal: i'm not very far south anymore, see i tried to get back by going north, but then i just ended up playing with the boat till i got lost
15:17:02 <oklopol> because it was so much fun
15:17:40 <oklopol> i've always just swim, but when i suddenly found a boat, was hard not to try it
15:17:41 <Vorpal> oklopol, well there is f3 ;P
15:18:02 <Vorpal> oklopol, they are quite hard to control when laggy
15:18:05 <oklopol> well this is the biggest resolution i've got, and the crt is already blurring things a lot
15:18:09 <Vorpal> oklopol, they work a lot better in single player thus
15:18:23 <oklopol> well i have both lag and very low fps
15:18:57 <oklopol> my internet is crappy, i have a very old crt, and my computer is a tiny little laptop not exactly meant for gaming, can't handle most flash games
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15:30:10 <Vorpal> fizzie, "bus error" when trying to connect sometimes, randomly pretty much.
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16:02:39 <Phantom_Hoover> <Vorpal> oklopol, ah yes, I heard that was a problem on smaller screens
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16:08:10 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well on a large screen it never goes on top of the coords. even when the CPU is bogged down by mc
16:11:17 <fizzie> In my vertically oriented window it does not seem to be a problem either.
16:11:33 <fizzie> Does it scale the text too or just the GUI elements?
16:12:06 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I lost connection it seems
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16:12:22 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, down for you too?
16:14:08 <Sgeo> I just confused "The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai: Across the Eighth Dimension" with Tron
16:15:14 * Sgeo has never seen either Tron or The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai
16:16:11 <Sgeo> ("Is that not so?" "Yes, that is not so.")
16:16:40 <Sgeo> WTF, googling for that quote and Pratchett gives nothing
16:16:46 <Sgeo> I KNOW I saw it in Thief of Time
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16:46:54 <Vorpal> <Sgeo> ("Is that not so?" "Yes, that is not so.") <-- 1) without quotes the words are probably too generic to give a good result. 2) with quotes a tiny comma difference or such would probably result in not getting the result
16:47:06 <Vorpal> I don't remember that quote btw
16:48:45 <Sgeo> They were trying to convince... someone.. of something...
16:49:13 <Sgeo> Making excuses for why they weren't eating
16:49:20 <Sgeo> It was supposedly against their religion
16:49:29 <Sgeo> To eat the food that was being offered
16:59:34 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:08:43 <Sgeo> oerjan * (oerjan - 1) * (oerjan - 2) ..
17:12:16 -!- elliott has joined.
17:13:09 <Sgeo> elliott, we know all your secrets!
17:13:17 <Sgeo> [Ok, just one]
17:13:39 <oklopol> elliott we missed you in mc
17:15:00 <oklopol> yeah, we were all like if only this guy was here
17:15:59 <elliott> 19:58:09 <Sgeo_> My dad's claiming that with my study habits, I would not have survived at a decent college, and it's the post-graduate college that matters anyway
17:16:01 <oklopol> it involved tnt, stupidity, and the destruction of all your dreams
17:16:04 <elliott> Sgeo: your dad claims so many things
17:16:58 <oklopol> see we figured it'd be even faster to torch with tnt, because tnt blows up a much bigger area than a torch
17:18:39 <oerjan> <Vorpal> <Sgeo> ("Is that not so?" "Yes, that is not so.") <-- 1) without quotes the words are probably too generic to give a good result. 2) with quotes a tiny comma difference or such would probably result in not getting the result
17:18:56 <oerjan> i don't think google considers punctuation much even with quotes
17:19:10 <Sgeo> elliott, oerjan kicked it
17:19:14 <oerjan> elliott: WE DID AN EXPERIMENT
17:19:16 <Sgeo> Meaning I can say Factor all I want!
17:19:37 <Sgeo> Factor Active Worlds Smalltalk Newspeak
17:20:03 <elliott> ok, looks like updog being kicked broke shutup since they run on the same service supervisor
17:20:08 <oerjan> elliott: it was FOR SCIENCE
17:20:28 <oerjan> elliott: well that is what you _say_
17:20:40 <Sgeo> elliott, you're still trying to hide shutup being fed by updog?
17:20:45 <Sgeo> It's so obvious now
17:20:55 <elliott> what is ... obvious about putting two words together
17:21:01 <elliott> oerjan: are you going to continue to be opaque or are you going to tell me what you're talking about?
17:21:23 <oerjan> elliott: it is obvious that shutup had to get sgeo's channel message information through _someone_ in this channel
17:21:41 <elliott> oerjan: you realise that updog is a0
17:21:57 <Sgeo> 10 line Ruby scripts can't feed other scripts now/
17:21:59 <oerjan> and since it didn't shut up when _you_ were away, updog was the main suspect
17:22:14 <elliott> oerjan: http://sprunge.us/dcFS
17:22:33 <elliott> i lied, it's actually 12 lines.
17:23:25 <Sgeo> Prove it. Run shutup without running updog
17:23:45 <elliott> that would involve editing the service. also, i don't particularly feel like proving anyhting to you
17:24:17 <elliott> ok, clearly updog isn't _banned_
17:24:37 <elliott> oerjan: if you're just looking for someone to ban there's plenty of other things you could
17:24:40 <oerjan> of course not, poor updog never did anything wrong
17:24:40 <Sgeo> elliott, it was an experiment, not ... bannishment
17:25:02 <Sgeo> <ellliott> Such as Sgeo
17:25:40 * Sgeo blinks at extraneous ls
17:25:51 <Sgeo> Well, just one l is extraneous
17:26:03 <oklopol> and there's one too much t
17:26:27 <oklopol> sure, but perhaps not today
17:26:48 <oklopol> i have Important Things irl
17:27:02 -!- updog has joined.
17:27:17 <Sgeo> Guess shutup isn't awake yet
17:27:21 <elliott> whoops, what's that, your stupid conspiracy theory isn't true?!! ZOMG
17:27:25 <elliott> and shutup has been online all this time
17:27:25 <oerjan> well shutup it _there_
17:27:48 <elliott> it broke because shutup is run on the same service to conserve memory on my _256 MiB_ vps, tyvm
17:28:01 <oerjan> Sgeo: you _do_ realize it is trivial for elliott to change anything and even lie about what code he is running if he wishes?
17:28:05 <elliott> meaning their network connections interact rather oddly
17:28:18 <elliott> oerjan: are you going to continue being paranoid?
17:28:36 <Sgeo> elliott, the other explanation for how shutup works is... magic?
17:28:41 <oklopol> i got stuck in minecraft mode
17:28:49 <Sgeo> oklopol, whenever I say certain things, shutup tells me to shutup
17:28:49 <elliott> if you don't _mind_, i'd like to restart it so that shutup starts working again
17:28:53 <oerjan> elliott: not really. but the fact that shutup has to get its information from _someone_ in the channel remains. i doubt you have a freenode server running.
17:28:53 <elliott> but i won't bother if you're going to kick updog
17:29:43 <elliott> oerjan: so are you going to ban updog if i restart the instance so that shutup unbreaks?
17:29:56 <Sgeo> I think I've said Factor Smalltalk Active Worlds etc. etc. more now that shutup exists...
17:29:57 <oerjan> elliott: that was only for an experiment. there is no point in repeating it.
17:30:22 -!- updog has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:30:39 <oerjan> since Sgeo can ignore shutup any time he wants, i see no point in actually intervening.
17:30:41 <elliott> i'm restarting them, as i said.
17:32:07 -!- updog has joined.
17:32:42 <Vorpal> oerjan, did you kick it?
17:33:13 <Sgeo> Vorpal, updog was kicked for an experiment to see if shutup would stop reacting to my Newspeak and Active Worlds obsessions
17:33:18 <Vorpal> oerjan, because that should leave it connected. Meaning that nonsense about network connections interacting seem even less plausible than if it had been disconnected
17:33:24 <Sgeo> shutup now gives notices
17:33:37 <elliott> Vorpal: I'm really uninterested in conspiracy theories.
17:33:48 <Vorpal> elliott, so how does it work then? Just wondering.
17:33:59 <oerjan> Vorpal: well it's not _entirely_ implausible that it caused something in elliott's setup to break ;D
17:33:59 <elliott> if I told you, what fun would it be for me?
17:34:17 <elliott> j-invariant: if you buy it, you can come on our server and do menial work on the cube forever
17:34:23 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, seriously, did you actually go to a crap college because your dad said so?
17:34:36 <elliott> j-invariant: if it's a pirated copy it won't work
17:34:42 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Sgeo does everything because his dad said so
17:34:50 <Sgeo> I wasn't aware it would be crap, but I pretty much went there because my dad said to
17:34:57 <elliott> j-invariant: ah. ask ineiros for the address
17:35:08 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Sgeo regularly checks with his dad if it's OK to keep breathing.
17:35:21 <elliott> j-invariant: you neither have Finn privilege or South African privilege so you have to go through normal channels
17:35:22 <Phantom_Hoover> The worst part is that there's actually an intelligent person in there somewhere, kept down by a barrage of conditioned stupidity.
17:36:31 <oerjan> Vorpal: i can even imagine him being honest about what code updog is running, as long as he has something listening in between :)
17:36:53 <oerjan> although i don't precisely know how to do that myself
17:37:02 <elliott> oerjan: or maybe -- JUST maybe -- it works in a way you haven't thought of yet
17:37:26 <Sgeo> elliott, you said it doesn't read logs on the web... does it use mercurial at all?
17:37:28 <oerjan> elliott: well listening to one of the logs i think would be too resource intensive
17:37:29 <j-invariant> I have this ominous feeling that is was a huge mistake to buy this and I will not have any time for anything else :|
17:37:39 <elliott> Sgeo: no, gregor would know if it did
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17:37:45 <oerjan> oh you've already denied that
17:37:51 <elliott> j-invariant: welcome to the rest of your life
17:38:43 <oerjan> elliott: i can imagine many ways to set it up, but no plausible ones that don't require an accomplice on the channel
17:38:59 <oerjan> of course it doesn't have to be updog.
17:39:07 <elliott> i am master of the implausible
17:39:20 <oerjan> but it _is_ suspicious that it stopped when i kicked updog.
17:40:03 <Sgeo> Of course, if elliott wanted, he could switch it over to him then remove updog, as a "demonstration" that it wasn't updog
17:40:14 <oerjan> hey, we have lambdabot
17:40:29 <elliott> Sgeo: zomg, you should like, write an essay about that
17:40:58 <Sgeo> How can lambdabot be an accomplice?
17:41:14 <Sgeo> elliott, I got a 100% on the essay
17:41:25 <elliott> Sgeo: and now you are applying your learnings to updog
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17:43:27 <Sgeo> >updog< Factor
17:43:27 <Sgeo> -shutup- Shut up about Factor!
17:43:39 <elliott> Sgeo: as i said, sharing the same connection
17:44:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Sgeo_not_really.
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17:45:25 <Sgeo> elliott, I'd ask you how that even makes sense in any way whatsoever other than updog being the source, but
17:46:01 <Sgeo> Seriously.. are you not running a normal OS on that machine, just wrote your own hastily written network stack?
17:46:12 <j-invariant> aww I think my computer is too slow to actually run this game
17:46:32 <elliott> j-invariant: go into options
17:46:35 <elliott> rendering distance short or tiny
17:47:07 <elliott> silly haskell invaders, this is secretly #minecraft
17:47:29 <oklopol> how do you know i don't give him the logs
17:47:38 <elliott> oklopol: OMG DON'T TELL THEM
17:47:47 <oerjan> Sgeo: i don't know if lambdabot can be an accomplice but that _is_ why i was browsing the channel member listing ;D
17:48:05 <elliott> oklopol: what the fuck, man, your big chest is actually full
17:48:38 <Sgeo> oklopol, well, given the evidence, there's a LOT pointing to updog currently being the accomplice
17:48:48 <Sgeo> A parking lot even
17:49:34 <Sgeo> elliott, bad pun
17:50:35 <oklopol> or full of sand and gravel
17:50:43 <elliott> i just filled it up to the max
17:50:58 <oklopol> a big box full of multiple things is not a pure box, and is useless
17:51:06 <elliott> oklopol: i didn't put the gravel there
17:51:07 <oklopol> you should make another box for gravel
17:51:11 <Vorpal> <elliott> silly haskell invaders, this is secretly #minecraft <-- actually it is #would-be-offtopic-if-anyone-ever-was-on-topic but freenode limits the name length so we had to go for something else
17:52:15 <Sgeo> elliott, how broken is your custom network stack?
17:52:27 <elliott> Sgeo: pretty broken. also, it's not a "network stack".
17:53:57 <Sgeo> You do realize that you're not convincing anyone, right?
17:54:30 <elliott> j-invariant: might be, might not
17:54:37 <elliott> j-invariant: not if it's on multiplayer ofc
17:54:44 <elliott> j-invariant: i can see someone building that by hand
17:54:49 <elliott> it's not a "huge" project to do so
17:54:52 <oklopol> Sgeo_not_really: i just do alright? :\
17:55:10 -!- Sgeo_not_really has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover.
17:55:56 <oklopol> sounds likely that the ellipse has been computed unmanually
17:58:33 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, feel free to test shutup by msg'ing updog
17:59:05 <elliott> he's not called Sgeo, it would do nothing.
17:59:14 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Sgeo_.
17:59:18 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo_test.
17:59:31 -!- Sgeo_test has changed nick to Sgeo.
17:59:40 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Sgeo_.
17:59:53 <Sgeo_> Hmm, would he need to be identified to PM?
18:01:49 <elliott> oklopol: build us a chest for gravel, i have more sand to put in
18:02:07 <oklopol> i'll build you a forest of chests when i get to it
18:02:32 <oklopol> i'll plant a 256x256 forest and replace log with chests
18:02:46 <oklopol> ...so you can't open any of them
18:03:52 <elliott> oklopol: "THIS LARGE CHEST IS FULL OF DIAMOND. TOO BAD I PUT BEDROCK ON TOP."
18:04:22 <oklopol> i've never a diamond box .(
18:05:16 * Sgeo_ acts pseudooffended
18:06:39 <cheater99> elliott: there was no specific quantifier :-D
18:06:45 <Sgeo_> cheater99, if elliott's telling the truth, AND updog and shutup are running on it... he's failing miserably
18:07:09 <elliott> cheater99: kitten or installing ubuntu on this laptop or what
18:07:40 <Sgeo_> In order for you to be telling the truth about updog not being shutup's source, shutup must be confusing updog's input with its own
18:07:47 <Sgeo_> Which is a sign of dementia at the OS level
18:08:46 * Sgeo_ suddenly wants DementedOS
18:09:52 <cheater99> elliott: how is ubuntu laptop coming along?
18:10:09 <elliott> cheater99: not at all until someone responds to my ubuntuforums post
18:10:19 * Sgeo_ wonders when he'll receive the email from PayPal describing why, exactly, someone who makes $38/year is not eligible for their credit card thing
18:10:21 <elliott> which seems unlikely, at this point
18:10:32 <elliott> Sgeo_: just get a debit card
18:10:57 <elliott> also, isn't it fairly obvious?
18:11:39 <elliott> Sgeo_: so get a debit card?
18:11:54 <elliott> oh wait i forgot you'd have to ask your father ... because 21 year olds can't get debit cards
18:12:51 -!- cal153 has joined.
18:12:51 <oklopol> Sgeo_: just send them money with a bank transfer
18:13:48 <elliott> oklopol: no he'd have to ask his dad
18:13:52 <elliott> and his dad thinks bank transfers are bad
18:17:13 <elliott> fizzie: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=54784
18:17:37 <elliott> fizzie: I have to say, that animation under Usage is something I would love to see in your mcmap.
18:18:08 <Sgeo_> elliott, .... tbh I told my dad that I was angry and that I was going to go get a debit card... and he said he'll look into it, he's going to Wal-Mart anyway, so he'll get one for me
18:21:02 <fizzie> Well, I could easily have an "surface except up to max-height" mode, but I don't have an isometric view at all.
18:21:39 <oklopol> elliott: how would his dad know if he gets a bank account and makes a transfer
18:21:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:22:05 <elliott> oklopol: well Sgeo_ would ask him of course
18:23:07 <elliott> fizzie: i'd add it, except I only do _easy_ work
18:23:19 <fizzie> Oh, that's an offline map-browser thing? The word "live" confused me.
18:23:38 <elliott> fizzie: Having said that... an isometric mode would be amazing... albeit slow.
18:23:53 <fizzie> "From the file menu you can select Worlds 1-5 from single-player minecraft on your system or any world folder, including server worlds."
18:24:37 <elliott> What; M-x new-frame makes the font reset.
18:25:02 <elliott> fizzie: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/107712/MCMap%20Screenshots/ss5.png Also this would be nice in real-time. :
18:25:42 <fizzie> I'll consider isometricry and/or other prettification things too. And some sort of block-finder, that could be nice too.
18:26:08 <oklopol> you guys take the venture out of adventure
18:26:28 <elliott> oklopol: i don't actually use mcmap's mapping
18:26:34 <elliott> i just use it for the //goto
18:26:57 <oklopol> well, i understand that, although i'd prefer minecarts that are easier to use
18:27:28 <elliott> oklopol: are you _sure_ you're right clicking them :D
18:28:06 <oklopol> you push them, then you right click a random number of times, and hope an odd number of clicks is done, then you wait to see something, and you'll know whether you're in the cart or whether the cart has run away
18:28:28 <elliott> oklopol: you push them, you right click once, and you wait
18:28:28 <oklopol> hope, because every fifth click works
18:28:36 <elliott> if it fails it's because ineiros is skyping
18:29:15 <oklopol> okay, so maybe minecarts are special like that
18:29:49 <oklopol> but sometimes it takes me a few minutes to get a click to work
18:30:07 <fizzie> I might just prefer preset warp destinations; maybe I'll have ineiros finally add some when he visits.
18:30:18 <oklopol> god i love complaining about this, i'm like an old lady telling everyone how much her hips her
18:31:12 <oklopol> anyway previous is corrected
18:31:25 <fizzie> Her hip hurt herds her.
18:31:47 <elliott> 04:44:10 <Sgeo> I've decided that my honeymoon with VirtualBox is over.
18:31:51 <elliott> the marriage breaks down already
18:32:06 <elliott> i guess all that cheating on Vorpal VirtualBox did just got too much
18:32:59 <elliott> Vorpal: Sgeo_ broke up with VirtualBox and started a new love affair with VMWare
18:33:07 <elliott> I assume it's because of all the time VirtualBox is spending with YOU
18:33:21 <Vorpal> elliott, gah. vmware is even worse. Though I am looking for a good alternative to virtualbox what with oracle and so on now
18:33:27 <elliott> Vorpal: vmware SERVER no less
18:33:31 <oklopol> did inva enter server btw?
18:33:44 <Sgeo_> I decided to shoot VMWare Server before I ever touched her
18:33:51 <elliott> oklopol: i'm telling him to ask ineiros, but you could just tell j-invariant the address
18:33:55 <elliott> you're oklopol so nobody would blame you
18:34:07 <Vorpal> elliott, I used that.. back before virtualbox exited (or at least before it was well known). But yeah it is annoying. And isn't modern versions browser based too
18:34:12 <Vorpal> (never used modern versions)
18:34:25 <Sgeo_> Vorpal, yes. Yes it is.
18:34:27 <elliott> 05:49:59 <Sgeo> I'm pretty sure pikhq warned me about this, but I ignored him because I thought he was talking about crappy internal architecture
18:34:31 <elliott> water blocks toilet paper, yup
18:34:35 <elliott> 07:00:06 <Vorpal> fizzie, a question about mcmap: does water really block tp? Because when you ended up sub-surface in an unloaded chunk tp out of there would be /very/ useful
18:34:57 <elliott> 07:05:22 <oklopol> would be nice to get home, i managed to convince myself i had a way to look at coordinates as much as i like, and decided to take a random walk
18:35:11 <elliott> 07:06:14 <oklopol> a red square goes on top of the numbers
18:35:11 <elliott> 07:06:24 <Vorpal> oklopol, ah yes, I heard that was a problem on smaller screens
18:35:13 <elliott> it isn't the fucking screen size
18:35:18 <elliott> more cpu usage = it blocks the indicator
18:35:20 <pikhq> VMware Server before their *revolting* AJAX UI wasn't bad.
18:35:22 <oklopol> i don't have any place yet
18:35:42 <pikhq> It wasn't the greatest thing ever, but it had an entirely usable and working GTK UI, and it just plain worked.
18:35:49 <Vorpal> elliott, actually screen size matters too, this system is bogged down under mc, but the screen is large.
18:35:56 <pikhq> Now, it doesn't fucking work and it HAS ITS OWN COPY OF EVERYTHING
18:36:02 <oklopol> oh well obviously mc uses up all my cpu, so maybe i should just force it to be low while reading coords
18:36:21 <elliott> oklopol: or just use mcmap and //coords when fizzie makes a working windows binary :p
18:36:25 <elliott> 07:12:01 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, idea: get worldedit hmod plugin. stand next to water, use //drain 128
18:36:28 <elliott> Vorpal: cuboid plugin does that.
18:36:42 <elliott> "minecraft would be so much better if we didn't have to mine or craft!"
18:36:46 <fizzie> oklopol: Did you try out the win-binary, incidentally?
18:36:51 <elliott> fizzie: he just wants coords
18:36:58 <elliott> 07:08:19 <fizzie> The no-map mode might work if you just need a //goto.
18:36:58 <elliott> 07:08:46 <fizzie> For me it crashed on //goto, but it looked like it actually teleported first, so it might sorta-work.
18:36:58 <elliott> 07:08:47 <oklopol> all i want is to look at coordinates
18:37:00 <oklopol> i have a windows binary, forgot about ti
18:37:01 <elliott> 07:09:05 <fizzie> Well, I don't think that works in nomap mode yet.
18:37:03 <elliott> 07:09:20 <fizzie> I can fixize that after I get home.
18:37:34 <Vorpal> elliott, cuboid is less well written from what I read. Not quite notch quality but buggier definitely. (And worldedit has more features as well.)
18:38:02 <elliott> Vorpal: i only know cuboid from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaigDxHBKbA, which is my favourite video ever
18:38:02 <fizzie> elliott: Well, you do get coords in the mappy mode, but I guess that's less likely to work. Anyway, just came home.
18:38:21 <elliott> Vorpal: so if worldedit can do that then SURE
18:38:31 <pikhq> Sony claims they'll be "fixing the issues" with the PS3 using a network update.
18:39:23 <Sgeo_> pikhq, I should have listened to you
18:39:32 <elliott> pikhq: it can be effective.
18:39:47 <pikhq> Yeah, the only thing that could do anything about this is: adding a new layer of signing onto new games plus a whitelist for all the old games. *On a new revision of hardware.*
18:39:49 <elliott> pikhq: means that for anyone who hasn't yet homebrew'd the console, the only way to do it is hardware modding
18:40:26 <elliott> pikhq: i.e., there's three types of machine: updated ones, can't be hacked except by hardware mods; already-hacked ones; and new ones, which are invulnerable
18:40:27 <Vorpal> elliott, can't answer until I watched video. But one think I did was select a huge area (200x200) then expand the selection to bottom of map and replace everything but air with stone. Worked perfectly and as happened so fast it seemed instant.
18:40:29 <elliott> in an idael situation (for sony)
18:40:44 <elliott> j-invariant: mine stuff, build a shelter, get armour, find a nice mountain, start a mine
18:40:48 <elliott> j-invariant: make farms, kill bad things
18:40:51 <elliott> j-invariant: build interesting stuff
18:40:53 <pikhq> elliott: This, of course, presumes that Sony does it perfectly.
18:41:12 <pikhq> That is, creates new keys and a whitelist, and introduces *no new vulnerabilities*.
18:41:28 <elliott> oklopol: you should be hideously irresponsible with the server address right now!
18:41:34 <pikhq> Oh, and the new keys would of course have to be in the mask for future CPUs.
18:41:34 <elliott> or j-invariant could just read the logs i guess :P
18:41:45 <coppro> and also invalidates the old keys
18:41:47 <pikhq> It'll be several months before we start seeing that.
18:41:56 <pikhq> coppro: "Whitelist".
18:42:13 <Vorpal> elliott, yes it can fill a selection with lava like that.
18:42:22 <elliott> just make a hacker which has the exact same signature as a legit game.
18:42:30 <coppro> oh, also, this totally assumes that they don't use a cracked PS3 to download the update and pick it apart
18:42:30 <Vorpal> elliott, something like //set lava after making a selection
18:42:31 <elliott> Vorpal: i linked it because it was funny not because i thought worldedit couldn't do it
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18:42:51 <Vorpal> elliott, oh I must have misinterpreted your line "<elliott> Vorpal: so if worldedit can do that then SURE" then
18:42:53 <pikhq> All this will only prevent homebrew from happening on new consoles, anyways.
18:43:03 <elliott> Vorpal: if worldedit can generate SUCH HILARITY then sure.
18:43:09 <pikhq> The update *will have to be* encrypted with the old keys.
18:43:12 <Sgeo_> Hmm, I guess it's a bit late for me to buy a PS3?
18:43:19 <elliott> Sgeo_: not if you do it NOW
18:43:19 <coppro> pikhq: but then they can break the new keys
18:43:22 <pikhq> Which means that you will *have* the new keys.
18:43:28 <coppro> since the new keys will have to be encoded in the same way
18:43:31 <pikhq> So piracy on old hardware will happen forever and ever.
18:43:41 <coppro> so then piracy on new keys will happen the same way
18:43:47 <elliott> fizzie: i am trying to figure out how to do the packet_id enum in SML sanely :D
18:43:50 <pikhq> And there is literally nothing Sony can do about it at all.
18:44:01 <elliott> j-invariant: there is definitely not the address of the minecraft server in yesterday's logs.
18:44:06 <Sgeo_> pikhq, you will have the public keys though, which shouldn't be private, so? Oh, unless you intercept it?
18:44:08 <fizzie> elliott: Oh, you're actually doing the ML rewrite?
18:44:15 <elliott> fizzie: well i'm... toying with the idea :D
18:44:19 <elliott> fizzie: it might not actually include the map part
18:44:20 <Vorpal> elliott, also worldedit can generate snowfall. Might be useful up around dw's place
18:44:27 <pikhq> Sgeo_: The public keys are sufficient for doing piracy on cracked firmware.
18:44:28 <elliott> Sgeo_: it's symmetric encryption
18:44:42 <Sgeo_> elliott, that seems... stupid
18:44:55 <pikhq> elliott: It's assymmetric, but all PS3s have the public key.
18:44:55 <elliott> Sony, stupid? haha you lie
18:45:03 <oklopol> would be nice if you could just disable the bad thingies in some areas
18:45:04 <fizzie> Okay, I have now produced a Windows mcmap binary that has working //coords, and it worked for me (in nomap mode) under Wine: http://zem.fi/~fis/mcmap-win.zip
18:45:14 <pikhq> It's *supposed* to be in a SPU that you can't normally access.
18:45:27 <elliott> oklopol: "mcmap -cm a322.org:25566" in a cmd window
18:45:32 <Sgeo_> "The public keys are sufficient for doing piracy on cracked firmware."
18:45:32 <elliott> oklopol: then connect to 127.0.0.1 with minecraft
18:45:36 <elliott> oklopol: and do //coords in chat
18:45:44 <coppro> They can just replicate the attack method on the new keys on old hardware, can't they?
18:45:46 <Sgeo_> How does that make.. I'm confused
18:45:55 <elliott> coppro: not if sony redoes the encryption without stupid
18:45:58 <fizzie> I think it should have a Win32-specific launch dialog where you enter the host/port and select the options, since aren't Windows users in general rather uncomfortable with the command line?
18:46:02 <pikhq> Sgeo_: Decrypt stuff with the new keys, and run it on firmware that doesn't do the key check.
18:46:34 <elliott> fizzie: does mcmap give up permanently whenever it sees an invalid password?
18:46:36 <pikhq> coppro: The key revealing actually came because Sony did their signing algorithm retardedly.
18:46:46 <elliott> I suppose I could have each packet ID written twice (one in the data type, one in an int -> packet_id converter)
18:46:50 <pikhq> coppro: It's actually not anything on the PS3 itself at *all*.
18:47:03 <elliott> 18:45 fizzie: I think it should have a Win32-specific launch dialog where you enter the host/port and select the options, since aren't Windows users in general rather uncomfortable with the command line?
18:47:08 <j-invariant> this just makes me want to design some weird 2D cellular automata
18:47:10 <elliott> fizzie: do you _want_ to encourage clueless windows users to use this?
18:47:20 <elliott> j-invariant: do it in redstone
18:47:24 <pikhq> Anyways. Sony's "security" architecture is positively retarded.
18:47:50 <pikhq> Fun fact: with arbitrary code execution *at all*, you can decrypt everything ever even without access to the keys that you shouldn't be able to access.
18:47:56 <elliott> j-invariant: everything in your life is minecraftn ow
18:47:58 <fizzie> elliott: Market adoption, I hear it's important. And it gives up permanently whenever the TCP connection is closed. (It doesn't look at the login packets otherwise, except for reading the player entity ID out of it.)
18:48:10 <pikhq> The decryption SPU can be used as a decryption oracle so long as you're running code.
18:48:14 <elliott> fizzie: what does it do if it sees an invalid packet?
18:48:20 <j-invariant> "Category theory is a popular framework for expressing abstract properties of
18:48:34 <pikhq> Seriously, the PS3 is fucked 15 different ways.
18:48:45 <fizzie> elliott: Well, yes, because it's impossible to guess where the invalid packet would end. I guess it could *try* to resync, but I'm not sure how likely that is to work.
18:48:51 <Sgeo_> fizzie, elliott is morally opposed to anything that is popular.
18:49:02 <elliott> Sgeo_: um are you _defending_ Windows
18:49:14 <pikhq> Oh, and there will *be* arbitrary code execution exploits: you write software for it in C.
18:49:21 <elliott> i'm just saying that the kind of people who won't open cmd.exe to type "mcmap blah" are the kind of people who are going to produce the whining fizzie loathes so
18:49:37 <fizzie> Maybe they can't figure out where to whine.
18:49:48 <fizzie> If they whine, say, on the minecraft forums, that's not a loss for me.
18:49:52 <elliott> fizzie: Sgeo_'s right here.
18:50:02 <elliott> fizzie: do you really want to touch the win32 api? :-)
18:50:12 <fizzie> It's been a while; it might be nostalgick.
18:50:14 <elliott> I hear it is _quite_ loathesome.
18:50:45 <fizzie> I already looked at the dialog resource script file format, it's very awful. (MinGW of course doesn't have a dialog designer thing.)
18:51:26 <fizzie> A Win binary without the mapping feature might not be very popular, though.
18:51:34 <elliott> fizzie: Just do it all with those OK/Cancel default MsgBoxes.
18:51:35 <fizzie> And of course there's the denial-of-service thing.
18:51:43 <elliott> fizzie: "Is the first bit of the address 0?"
18:52:20 <elliott> fizzie: Yes, I think //goto is rather good justification for never letting this out ever. (Even if you removed it, just takes one intrepid commit-logger...)
18:52:29 <elliott> Especially since it has been verified to do Awful Things.
18:52:57 <Sgeo_> Can't Notch make //goto ineffective over the relevent distances?
18:53:11 <elliott> Sgeo_: The reason //goto works is because his server architecture is completely broken.
18:53:20 <elliott> I do not expect he could redesign it to be less broken, as he is an idiot.
18:53:54 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo.
18:53:55 <fizzie> Again, his todo list hints that //goto is pretty likely to be nerfed in the future.
18:54:32 <elliott> fizzie: You still haven't shown why really.
18:54:37 <elliott> Sgeo: Telling you that seems ... unwise.
18:54:38 <fizzie> A simple maximum-speed check for PLAYER_MOVE messages would make it unworkable.
18:54:51 <elliott> fizzie: What entry in his todo list implies it'll be fixed?
18:54:55 <Sgeo> ...it's just PLAYER_MOVE messages?
18:55:21 <fizzie> elliott: The highest-priority "Make the server check for flying, no clip and increased speed." one?
18:55:22 <oerjan> > fix(([1,2]++).drop 2.(uncurry replicate=<<).flip zip(cycle[1,2]))
18:55:23 <lambdabot> [1,2,2,1,1,2,1,2,2,1,2,2,1,1,2,1,1,2,2,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,2,1,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,2,1,...
18:55:26 <elliott> Sgeo: It works by sending 20 of them with subtly invalid fields that confuse the server in a specific way.
18:55:31 <elliott> Sgeo: There, now don't abuse it.
18:55:41 <elliott> fizzie: Hmm, isn't that from the Classic era?
18:55:47 <elliott> fizzie: I know flying was ubiquitous then.
18:55:57 <elliott> fizzie: I don't think noclip is possible with Alpha, but it was with Classic.
18:56:10 <fizzie> Well, the context is "Before beta", so technically speaking all three things should be already done. :p
18:56:26 <fizzie> (I think he's sort of given up with that toodledo list.)
18:57:07 <fizzie> "While we [Mojang] were doing this [having a strategy meeting], there was a film crew on place (since Monday, actually), documenting and interviewing."
18:57:17 <fizzie> Ooh, expect a "Minecraft: the making of" hip-cumentary.
18:57:26 <fizzie> (It's like a documentary, except more hip.)
18:58:08 <elliott> Vorpal: have you excavated recently by any chance?
18:58:09 <fizzie> "Oh, and I’ve finally committed the Music Blocks to the repository.
18:58:09 <fizzie> (Oh, wait, no, I didn’t.. Doing so broke git, so we’re changing to svn because git is horrible and evil)"
18:58:19 <elliott> fizzie: ...did he say that.
18:58:21 <elliott> fizzie: Did Notch say that.
18:58:26 <elliott> fizzie: Please tell me Notch didn't say that.
18:58:28 <fizzie> Yes, it's in his glob.
18:58:35 <elliott> fizzie: I'm going to punch him IRL.
18:58:42 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, when it seems imminent that it will be fixed, we make the server crash bug public and watch the anarchy.
18:58:42 <elliott> fizzie: He has circlejerks^Wmeetups, right?
18:58:52 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Evil, but ... fun. But evil.
18:59:05 <fizzie> I don't know, but probably some sort of events, yes.
18:59:49 <elliott> fizzie: OK. So theoretically I could go and punch him.
18:59:52 <elliott> Unless he has fan bodyguards?
19:01:02 <elliott> "If this gets a bunch of upvotes, I'll write and record a concept album about Creepers, and release it for free in February."
19:01:05 <elliott> I am going to punch everyone.
19:01:41 <elliott> "I'm kind of sad to see him diss git like that. I really enjoy it, and it has lots of advantages over svn. It's a shame he ran into problems. (But.. svn?? There are other options, man! It's not like you're committing large binary files!)"
19:01:45 <elliott> Now, please, bet on the following statement:
19:01:53 <elliott> "Notch is committing large binary files to the Minecraft repository."
19:02:54 <elliott> fizzie: Phantom_Hoover: Also bet on: "Adventure mode will exist in the first post-beta release."
19:03:05 <fizzie> "Music Blocks" does sound pretty much like large binary files.
19:03:34 <elliott> fizzie: Music blocks is this new block type he's adding.
19:04:01 <elliott> Ha, apparently they're trying to "come up with a release date" for Minecraft already.
19:04:08 <elliott> Vorpal: Are all Swedes stupid, or is my sample size just deficient?
19:04:43 <Vorpal> elliott, me and olsner aren't stupid
19:04:50 <elliott> Oh, right, olsner isn't stupid.
19:04:53 <elliott> Maybe just most Swedes then.
19:05:23 <elliott> 18:57 fizzie: "Oh, and I’ve finally committed the Music Blocks to the repository.
19:05:23 <elliott> 18:57 fizzie: (Oh, wait, no, I didn’t.. Doing so broke git, so we’re changing to svn because git is horrible and evil)"
19:05:26 <elliott> Because Notch has no brain.
19:05:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:05:48 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:06:03 <elliott> Notch has stolen the concept of Minecraft from the world; nobody can ever execute it properly, because the accusations of plagiarism will be non-stop.
19:06:57 <oerjan> <Vorpal> elliott, me and olsner aren't stupid <-- you _have_ to be the straight man, don't you? :D
19:07:23 <elliott> oerjan: i do wonder if he really missed my "subtle" insult, or whether he just decided to ignore it for the sake of anti-comedy
19:07:35 <elliott> (anti-comedy is not the result of anti-jokes, it is the result of being anti-joke)
19:07:58 <oerjan> anti-jokes are, of course, hilarious.
19:08:55 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, FWIW, I added "Complaining About People Not Liking The Show" to MC's TV Tropes page.
19:09:22 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: THAT IS A SUBJECTIVE TROPE
19:09:42 <Sgeo> Notch's fans seem to be using the Diaspora excuse to excuse his issues
19:10:10 <elliott> "Was originally a Spiritual Successor of the free Infiniminer"
19:10:19 <elliott> Zach must fucking hate Notch.
19:10:42 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: BTW, Survival Test is now completely gone.
19:14:24 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: snpidcoc).
19:14:35 -!- coppro has joined.
19:15:08 <elliott> fizzie: Can you force ineiros' IP to change to something really easily-guessable?
19:16:07 <elliott> oklopol: DON'T WORRY IF YOU'RE GOING ON THE SERVER I'M AT THE SPAWN TO HELP GUIDE YOU >:D
19:17:14 <elliott> fizzie: "Somewhat averted by Alpha Update 1.0.15. Wood and other flammable blocks now catch fire up to three blocks away from lava."
19:17:45 <elliott> fizzie: Hey, I just realised all the slogan texts are gone, it just says "finally beta now" (just realised: just read on the tv tropes page)
19:21:51 <oklopol> "<elliott> oklopol: DON'T WORRY IF YOU'RE GOING ON THE SERVER I'M AT THE SPAWN TO HELP GUIDE YOU >:D" <<< i am not at spawn tho
19:22:41 <fizzie> Interesting; the "Finally beta!" string comes from a try { ... } catch (Exception e) { l = "Finally beta!"; } code-structure.
19:23:04 <fizzie> Even though the /title/splashes.txt is still there in the .jar.
19:23:10 <fizzie> I don't know how he's hardcodeded it.
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19:24:02 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, BtW, http://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Eric_S._Raymond&diff=709079&oldid=708724
19:24:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Seen, and mentioned to you ages ago.
19:24:20 <elliott> It's better than before, so I won't argue.
19:24:24 <elliott> (before = before i edited)
19:24:49 <Phantom_Hoover> You could argue that his work in computing is generally respectable.
19:25:10 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, uh, fetchmail.
19:25:13 <oklopol> "<elliott> oklopol: "mcmap -cm a322.org:25566" in a cmd window" <<< it just tells me how to use mcmap
19:25:24 <elliott> oklopol: what did you type, in full
19:25:30 <elliott> did ou type -exactly- that :P
19:25:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Someone have a link summing up MC's stupid technical problems?
19:26:02 <fizzie> Oh, no, it doesn't: it actually comes from something like try { ...; l = splashes.get(rnd.nextInt(splashes.size())); goto bleh; } catch (Exception e) { bleh: l = "Finally beta!"; } ... assuming I read the bytecode right. So it actually selects a random splash, then rewrites it with that.
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19:26:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Or just a series of links to examples of Notch's idiocy.
19:26:35 <fizzie> oklopol: That's weirdistic. But admittedly I have only tried it with wine. What about "mcmap dummy -cm a322.org:25566"?
19:27:09 <fizzie> Though I guess that won't hep, since it'd anyway just miss the -cm part.
19:27:29 <elliott> 19:25 Phantom_Hoover: Someone have a link summing up MC's stupid technical problems?
19:27:37 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: why do you assume the badness of things is always summed up in links
19:27:47 <fizzie> (I manually split the command line I get from GetCommandLine() at spaces, since that one includes the program name, unlike the WinMain lpCmdLine param.)
19:28:05 <Phantom_Hoover> I want at least *some* evidence before I call Notch an idiot.
19:28:06 <fizzie> I should just figure out how to make mingw build a binary with a traditional "main".
19:28:11 <fizzie> Or add that launcher dialog!
19:28:19 <elliott> fizzie: Well it's _meant_ to just work. :p
19:28:31 <elliott> That :D was from the bleh: thing.
19:28:59 <fizzie> Yes, but it doesn't want to "just work" for me.
19:29:10 <Vorpal> <oerjan> <Vorpal> elliott, me and olsner aren't stupid <-- you _have_ to be the straight man, don't you? :D <-- hah
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19:29:42 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: look at random pages on minecraft wiki, "pigs stopped working after the halloween update due to the texture of cobblestone being changed"
19:30:55 <elliott> please tell me that's true
19:30:55 <fizzie> MinGW crt1.c supposedly has this:
19:30:57 <fizzie> * Call the main function. If the user does not supply one
19:30:57 <fizzie> * the one in the 'libmingw32.a' library will be linked in, and
19:30:57 <fizzie> * that one calls WinMain. See main.c in the 'lib' dir
19:31:02 <elliott> oklopol: i would really like that to be actually true
19:31:06 <elliott> oklopol: i can actaully believe it
19:31:09 <oklopol> that would be pretty awesome.
19:31:16 <fizzie> So yes, it's supposed to use a user-supplied main when there is one.
19:31:22 <oklopol> what was that problem with trees inflooping cause by something unrelated
19:31:27 <elliott> oklopol: turns out he procedurally generated the pig texture based on the cobblestone one, obviously
19:31:34 <elliott> and also, stores state in the unused parts of the texture
19:31:48 <elliott> oklopol: or, better: the pig and cobblestone code is completely unrelated
19:31:53 <elliott> and the pig code doesn't even touch the texture code
19:31:59 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: note: this is lies
19:32:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: just very true lies
19:32:37 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: it isn't real
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19:33:35 <pikhq> Republicans in the House read the US Constitution upon opening the current session of Congress...
19:33:42 <pikhq> *And intentionally omitted parts*.
19:33:51 <oklopol> oaky leaf decay caused infloops in leaves. still kind of weird that was not something he could just quickly fix.
19:33:58 <fizzie> elliott: Oh, I think it's a SDL problem, in fact. The SDL.h header does: #if defined(__WIN32__) ... #define main SDL_main ...; and then there's supposed to be some sort of a SDL winmain.c that calls it. How very messy.
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19:34:02 <elliott> oklopol: ah yes, leaf decay is very oaky.
19:34:09 <pikhq> Including the ⅗ths compromise...
19:34:11 <elliott> fizzie: I had to do stuff with that once
19:34:17 <cheater99> elliott: where is your ubuntuforums post?
19:34:18 <elliott> fizzie: just rename main to SLD_main
19:34:24 <elliott> cheater99: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1658418
19:34:32 <pikhq> (which stated that, for the purposes of the census, a slave will be considered ⅗ths of a person.)
19:34:35 <elliott> fizzie: and it'll Work Out Perfectly IIRC
19:34:51 <oklopol> if i don't disable the map, what'll happen?
19:34:55 <oklopol> i don't have the balls to try myself
19:34:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, I'd still like some examples of completely stupid bugs.
19:34:59 <elliott> oklopol: you'll probably die
19:35:04 <elliott> oklopol: but i'd wait until fizzie fizes :P
19:35:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: placing torches on leaves used to only work in fancy...or was it fast
19:35:18 <oklopol> is the shop open i want stuff
19:35:19 <elliott> but it worked when you put it back
19:35:31 <elliott> as in they didn't disappear
19:35:56 <Phantom_Hoover> It pains me to say this, but I can't add the trope with that evidence.
19:36:37 <oklopol> the fact he clearly codes every new enemy from scratch should be evidence enough
19:36:49 <oklopol> there's tons of evidence for that: every object works slightly differently
19:37:15 <oklopol> details do, even though the relevant things are the same for them
19:37:39 <oklopol> well, i'm not being very helpful, but the point is it's weird if no one has collected this stuff in a list
19:37:46 <oklopol> there's evidence everywhere
19:40:11 <fizzie> elliott: Well, it only works if with SDL_main if I also statically link in -lSDLmain, and I'm not sure I want to do that. I guess it's sort-of recommended-by-some, but it breaks e.g. the otherwise legal "int main(void)". (And -lSDLmain is not part of SDL's pkg-config flags.) I think I'll just crudely work-around it in the win32 build, that one is allowed to be ugly.
19:40:39 <elliott> fizzie: Okay, but I think it's like that for a Reason.
19:40:43 <elliott> fizzie: SDL needs special initialising on win32 I think.
19:41:54 <oklopol> took a random page: "Currently, slimes cannot spawn naturally, but this will most likely be fixed." <<< why the fuck do they have their own spawning code?
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19:42:27 <oklopol> and what the fuck is hard about using a function to calculate prob of appearing from height, and then adding a certain kind of tile on the map
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19:42:34 <cheater99> maybe he wants to make them into puddings
19:42:34 <oklopol> how the fuck can you have a bug in that
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19:46:05 <fizzie> So did oko get it started or what actually happened?
19:46:45 <elliott> He's not on the server at least.
19:47:47 <elliott> fizzie: Well, he hasn't tried it since the first error afaik.
19:47:57 <fizzie> This time I got even the mappy version started, and there's a map and all, but then it hung up after two chat messages and downloading most of the initial chunks.
19:48:32 <fizzie> Something is probably wrong there, but Wine-testing is so crummy.
19:49:16 <fizzie> He can try the same URL again, it has a "regular" main now so maybe the command line args work too. (Then again, maybe not.)
19:49:20 <ais523> hmm, according to Slashdot, converting the string "2.2250738585072011e-308" into a floating point number sends PHP 5.2 and 5.3 into an infinite loop
19:49:32 <ais523> so it's not /just/ Excel that has problems with float stringification
19:49:48 <ais523> again, you wonder how that was discovered...
19:51:22 <elliott> ais523: welcome to three days ago
19:53:57 <cheater99> elliott: have you tried resizing the existing mac partition(s) and putting a new partition on there?
19:55:01 <elliott> cheater99: Uhh, I did that before any of this ... you do realise my issue is actually getting the LiveCD booted, right?
19:55:24 <cheater99> elliott: so you don't want ubuntu permanently on your laptop?
19:55:39 <elliott> cheater99: You have a way to install Ubuntu without booting the live media now?
19:55:45 <elliott> I'm not about to use Wubi.
19:56:00 <cheater99> elliott: install ubuntu on another computer, and clone the partition over
19:56:04 <cheater99> i've done that 1304758203475 times
19:56:23 <elliott> I don't have any even vaguely-similar hardware. plus, the fstab would be fucked up and probably all kinds of shit would break subtly.
19:56:28 <elliott> (since the fstab uses guids nowadays.)
19:56:36 <fizzie> oklopol, elliott: If it still doesn't work, I'll just build a windows binary that hardcodes the command line options.
19:56:42 <cheater99> i've been swapping the same hard drive between 3 different cpu architectures
19:56:51 <elliott> cheater99: cpu is irrelevant.
19:56:53 <cheater99> it works straight away (well i have to reboot once)
19:57:01 <elliott> cheater99: bootloader installation
19:57:03 <elliott> I have no other EFI machines
19:57:27 <cheater99> i believe there is the grub installer for macos too
19:57:46 <elliott> cheater99: yeaaaah no, it's probably grub-efi
19:57:59 <cheater99> you can tell it to install grub on disk n partition k and it does it all automagically
19:57:59 <elliott> i really only want to go the live-media route.
19:58:02 <elliott> it should not be difficult.
19:58:14 <cheater99> what's grub-efi and why is it bad?
19:58:15 <oklopol> macos is what mcdonald's calls tacos
19:58:25 <elliott> cheater99: grub-efi is grub-efi and it's bad because linux efi support sucks
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19:58:54 <cheater99> i'm not apple-compatible, i don't know those things
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19:59:29 <elliott> cheater99: if you don't know what efi is, the chances of you being able to help me are close to 0.
19:59:34 <elliott> considering it's basically the entire problem
19:59:44 <cheater99> elliott: well if you explain it to me then i will know it!
19:59:56 <fizzie> oklopol: When it says "waiting for connection", it means you have to start minecraft and connect to 127.0.0.1.
20:00:05 <fizzie> (Or presumably "localhost".)
20:00:05 <elliott> cheater99: dentistry is about toothcare. can you give me a filling?
20:01:15 <cheater99> elliott: so you don't want grub at all, yes?
20:01:35 <elliott> i want normal grub, as the ubuntu live media installs perfectly on macs when it is booted.
20:01:51 <cheater99> elliott: i don't think it's a special grub that there is
20:02:12 <elliott> cheater99: Yes, there is, grub-efi.
20:02:29 <cheater99> elliott: what about running ubuntu in parallels
20:02:38 <elliott> i want to run ubuntu as my main os. also, parallels is crap.
20:02:58 <cheater99> elliott: you can run it in parallels, have the normal grub install stuff, and you could boot ubuntu.
20:03:26 <elliott> cheater99: considering parallels emulates a "normal" BIOS PC, I'd put the chances of that working fairly low ... but more importantly, I don't think parallels can read/write to an existing system partition
20:04:12 <cheater99> can you on mac set another partition as "bootable" like on pcs?
20:04:40 -!- pumpkin has joined.
20:05:51 <elliott> cheater99: umm, sort of. but that wouldn't help.
20:06:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
20:06:17 <cheater99> but then you could write grub to just the linux partition, and make that partition bootable ("sort of")
20:06:21 <oklopol> when someone talks, it crashes, i think
20:06:29 <elliott> fizzie: you didn't make it use readline did you
20:06:33 <fizzie> oklopol: I've noticed something like that too.
20:06:35 <elliott> cheater99: i already wrote grub to a partition, sort of
20:06:39 <elliott> i could only find a floppy image of grub 1
20:07:06 <cheater99> i think maybe grub 2 could be better, sort of?
20:07:16 <fizzie> Most of console.c's #ifdef'd out, it just uses the "write to file descriptor 1" approach of consolying.
20:07:28 <fizzie> (It shouldn't have the readline thread started or anything.)
20:07:42 <cheater99> Yes this is fixable by doing a smc reset. This should fix your USB ports:
20:07:42 <cheater99> Note: Portable computers that have a battery you should not remove on your own include MacBook Pro (Early 2009) and later, all models of MacBook Air, and MacBook (Late 2009).
20:07:42 <cheater99> 2. Plug in the MagSafe power adapter to a power source, connecting it to the Mac if its not already connected.
20:07:43 <cheater99> 3. On the built-in keyboard, press the (left side) Shift-Control-Option keys and the power button at the same time.
20:07:46 <cheater99> 4. Release all the keys and the power button at the same time.
20:07:50 <cheater99> 5. Press the power button to turn on the computer. Note: The LED on the MagSafe power adapter does not change states or temporarily turn-off when you reset the SMC.
20:07:55 <cheater99> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964
20:08:07 <elliott> cheater99: what is that from. you could have just linked me.
20:08:17 <cheater99> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1465614
20:08:27 <elliott> it sounds suspiciously similar to "ZAP THE PRAM" of yore
20:08:42 <elliott> cheater99: yeah no, my usb ports work fine.
20:08:45 <elliott> "Hrrrrm...I'm having a problem with the superdrive version. After about a few minutes of booting from the Live-CD (both Ubuntu 10.04 and an old version of Gparted) the superdrive goes dead and the usb port will not work again without a COPS reset. When booted into OS X the superdrive works fine copying whole data DVD's onto the harddrive... any thoughts?"
20:08:48 <elliott> the usb ports work absolutely fine
20:09:02 <cheater99> maybe they only stop working when you're trying to boot
20:09:03 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: there's a guy in scotland i need you to kill
20:09:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: http://mikemcquaid.com/
20:09:58 <cheater99> which version of macbook air do you have?
20:10:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Can't be bothered sifting through the blog; outline why he needs to die.
20:10:21 <elliott> he's complaining about my commit for stupid reasons and is a dick in other pull requests
20:10:22 <elliott> https://github.com/mxcl/homebrew/pull/3817
20:10:35 <elliott> cheater99: it is literally days old
20:11:06 <cheater99> it sounds like the time i have created a reset button for my commodore
20:11:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: tl;dr imagine if you packaged ghc in a source distro, using the binaries like some other packages do in the source distro, rather than actually building from source,
20:11:12 <cheater99> EFI booting is explained in Brian Tarricones MacBookAir3,1 Gentoo install report : http://spurint.org/misc/installing-g...-macbookair31/
20:11:12 <cheater99> Basically, it requires a patch to force EFI booting in physical mode rather than virtual mode.
20:11:13 <cheater99> It's a very interesting read for anyone tweaking his/her MBA3,*
20:11:19 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: and you got a complaint when submitting it:
20:11:19 <cheater99> source: http://art.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10202692
20:11:25 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: "Please use the binaries to build GHC from source."
20:11:38 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: i.e.: "Make lots of computation happen to produce bit-identical binaries."
20:11:45 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: note that there is no customistaion of the build possible in this case
20:11:55 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: this is exactly what's happening, except it's MLton which is basically the same
20:12:14 <elliott> technically MLton builds with SML/NJ, but no point downloading another compiler to build a really-slow bootstrapper.
20:12:33 <cheater99> elliott: also, are you using the usual installation iso for ubuntu, or the "alternative cd"?
20:12:50 <elliott> cheater99: the usual iso, and i don't want to use the alternative cd. i have an ethernet adapter so i can use that for the install.
20:13:03 <elliott> i don't want to efi boot, as i've said
20:13:11 <cheater99> elliott: there are people saying that they couldn't succeed with the usual but alternative worked
20:13:13 <elliott> [[If you ever make it to Sedona, AZ, I owe you a beer. Why doesn't the wiki say "You just spent an insane amount of money on Apple hardware, save yourself some pain and spring for the Superdrive and ethernet dongle" then direct folks to the Alternate CD? Would have saved me much aggravation. Thanks.]]
20:13:27 <elliott> i don't want to spend 60 fucking pounds just to install ubuntu
20:13:43 <cheater99> is alternative going to do efi boot?
20:14:07 <elliott> cheater99: i mean re that thing you quoted
20:14:40 <elliott> when i bought this i kinda assumed that ubuntu had improved mac support since 2007/2008
20:14:49 <elliott> (i realise it's not really their fault but still)
20:15:36 <cheater99> i think in london you can also loan out mac hardware probably
20:15:57 <elliott> i'm not in london. and why would i want to do that
20:16:53 <cheater99> i was gonna say go to the mac store off oxford circus and nag them until they give you a superdrive for a sec
20:18:54 <elliott> fizzie: i just wrote packet id parsing functions, then realised that this packet_type thing should really just be a packet ADT :D
20:19:08 <elliott> fizzie: except that translating that from your C will be fun since you don't name any of the packet items
20:19:53 <fizzie> You could use that Haskell implementation as a base, it has data-type-ish packets. Though I don't think I really saw much names there either.
20:20:08 <elliott> ais523: was it you i discussed zooko's triangle with? maybe not
20:20:14 <elliott> fizzie: well i don't actually need names come to think of it
20:20:16 <elliott> fizzie: got a link to that haskell?
20:20:32 <fizzie> I'm not sure if it's updated to the beta protocol.
20:21:32 <fizzie> I got the early protocol bits from https://gist.github.com/727175 -- then the rest from that one wiki.)
20:21:49 <elliott> fizzie: Hmm, wait, I'll have to parse every parser manually won't I if I do this.
20:23:13 <elliott> fizzie: Erm, that is, I'll have to parse even similar-parametered ones separately.
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20:31:34 <elliott> do sha512 digests ever contain nul bytes?
20:33:40 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, where does that guy you want me to kill live?
20:33:59 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: specifically, broughty ferry.
20:35:07 <elliott> void packet_free(gpointer packet);
20:35:11 <elliott> fizzie: Shouldn't that be packet_t *?
20:35:42 * Phantom_Hoover realises that he has no idea where Dundee actually *is*.
20:37:21 <Phantom_Hoover> OTOH, she refused to kidnap Edwin Brady, even though that would be far less work, so that's not likely.
20:37:37 <fizzie> I would guess approximately 22.16% of SHA-512 digests contain at least one 0 byte.
20:38:05 * Phantom_Hoover remembers, with growing horror, that he has a copy of The Emperor's New Mind.
20:38:21 <fizzie> elliott: It's a gpointer so that it can be used as a free-func in one of the containers, I forget where. (Probably the queues.)
20:40:36 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, also, you're re-hired as HHI Selector Of Components.
20:40:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: What do they do.
20:41:22 <elliott> base(n, "0123456789abcdefghijklmnopqrstvuwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ")
20:41:29 <elliott> anyone got a longer digit set that doesn't have ugly shit in it? :)
20:42:05 <Vorpal> elliott, which ones are ugly?
20:42:27 <Vorpal> elliott, all symbols? or are some okay?
20:42:49 <Vorpal> elliott, add the greek letters
20:42:59 <Vorpal> elliott, what are you planning to use this for?
20:43:36 <elliott> Vorpal: A semi-clone of fizzie's pastebin thing, except instead of doing the useless task of URL shortening as well as pastebinning, mine does private pastebinning and image hosting.
20:43:47 <elliott> Vorpal: Except I want to make the URLs hashes, rather than evil imperative sequential IDs.
20:43:55 <elliott> But I want short-ish URLs. :P
20:44:13 <Vorpal> elliott, what about adding _ and - then?
20:44:17 <elliott> Even a 32-char prefix (of a 64-char SHA-1 hash) in base 62 (0-9a-zA-Z) gives things like "8azxrfY2khCG23lFERXRWh3i4Zu".
20:44:21 <elliott> Vorpal: Those are ugly. Especially when repeated.
20:44:30 <Vorpal> elliott, well at least they won't be url encoded :P
20:44:38 <elliott> 0..15 gives: ny6WsmDgQfcMWrngBmLZO6
20:44:39 <Vorpal> elliott, the greek letters would be
20:44:42 <elliott> Oh, and by -char I mean byte.
20:44:54 <elliott> How good is a 64-bit prefix of SHA-1? :P
20:45:05 <fizzie> As good as a 64-bit hash.
20:45:14 <elliott> Vorpal: Um, greek letters in URLs work fine, just not Greek domains. And even those might.
20:45:30 <Vorpal> elliott, they will end up encoded as %nn surely?
20:45:48 <elliott> Sheesh, even a 12-bit hash gives "ny6WsmDgQfcMWrngBmLZO6".
20:46:07 <Vorpal> elliott, a counter does have some advantages :P
20:46:14 <fizzie> I liked the "shortest unconflicting prefix, lookup oldest-first" thing, but it does have the "URLs get longer as time passes" property.
20:46:34 <elliott> fizzie: And is also EVIL and STATEFUL.
20:46:52 <elliott> fizzie: Is that what your thing does?
20:47:01 <Vorpal> elliott, just paste data uris instead. Self contained! (though it completely missed all the other points
20:47:06 <fizzie> No, I think my thing just generates a random fixed-length ID when you dont' specify one.
20:47:13 <elliott> variable: it'll look like /etc/shadow
20:47:26 <variable> elliott, ls: /etc/shadow: No such file or directory
20:47:48 <variable> why don't you just want to use a sequential numeric id?
20:48:11 <elliott> 20:46 variable: elliott, ls: /etc/shadow: No such file or directory
20:48:17 <elliott> would you have preferred I said /etc/master.passwd?
20:48:34 <Vorpal> elliott, that's what freebsd calls it too btw
20:48:37 <elliott> sequential numeric IDs are evil and stateful, duh.
20:48:40 <elliott> Vorpal: that's why i said it.
20:48:43 <elliott> variable is a BSD zealot :p
20:48:53 <Vorpal> elliott, I thought it was what os x uses
20:49:14 <elliott> But there's probably some LDAP database somewhere that it _really_ uses. ;-)
20:49:23 <elliott> # Note that this file is consulted directly only when the system is running
20:49:23 <elliott> # in single-user mode. At other times this information is provided by
20:49:30 <Vorpal> elliott, ldap for local, so screwed
20:49:31 <variable> elliott, and more than likely it would be possible to change one and not the other
20:49:42 <elliott> Apple's Open Directory architecture includes source code for both direc-
20:49:42 <elliott> tory client access and directory servers. Open Directory forms the foun-
20:49:42 <elliott> dation of how Mac OS X accesses all authoritative configuration informa-
20:49:44 <elliott> tion (users, groups, mounts, managed desktop data, etc.). Mac OS X
20:49:45 <elliott> obtains this information via abstraction APIs, enabling use of virtually
20:49:46 * Phantom_Hoover undermines Mt. Vorpal's security system with some redstone torches and some TNT.
20:49:47 <elliott> any directory system. Configuration of Open Directory is done through
20:49:50 <elliott> the Directory Utility applications in /Applications/Utilities. This
20:49:52 <elliott> application can configure plugin settings, including turning on/off vari-
20:49:55 <elliott> Vorpal: Seems it's some custom thing.
20:49:58 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Woo, now we'll never get a TNT kit.
20:50:24 <fizzie> It's LDAP-compatible, though.
20:50:29 <fizzie> At least to some extent.
20:50:35 <Phantom_Hoover> I used the torches for the undermining; I simply *have* some TNT.
20:50:58 <elliott> fizzie: Apple — compatible — to some extent — never a good sign.
20:53:19 <elliott> fizzie: So, a 40 bit hash -- it'll totally last forever right?
20:53:43 <elliott> A 48-bit hash is about as high as I'l go.
20:53:45 <fizzie> You're reasonably likely to have collisions when you have around 2^20 entries.
20:54:42 <fizzie> And to think: if only we wouldn't celebrate birthdays, there would be no birthday paradox, and we could get by with half as long hash functions. (What do you mean it doesn't work that way?)
20:55:18 <elliott> fizzie: I'm more asking whether a 40-bit hash might cause me problems if, say, SHA-1 is broken. OK, OK, that'll only help for intentional collisions.
20:55:34 <variable> Are there any quote bots here?
20:55:43 <elliott> variable: hackego; `quote is the main command, it also greps if you give it an argument
20:55:48 <elliott> unless it's a number in which case you have to parenthesis it
20:55:50 <fizzie> If you worry about intentional collisions, 40 bits is quite bruteforceable even without breaking SHA-1.
20:56:01 <elliott> "`pastequotes [optional grep]" and "`pastenquotes" are also quite nice
20:56:10 <variable> elliott, no I want to remember one
20:56:11 <elliott> variable: are you trying to add it? :)
20:56:22 <elliott> pikhq: 40 bit prefixes of SHA-1 hashes to identify every entry in a combined pastebin/image database
20:56:33 <elliott> pikhq: or should i go for a prefix of an SHA-2 function. or just increase the size
20:56:42 <variable> elliott, will it only add the last one - or could I say to remember one from before
20:56:50 <elliott> variable: um you have to type it in manually
20:57:03 <elliott> `addquote <fizzie> And to think: if only we wouldn't celebrate birthdays, there would be no birthday paradox, and we could get by with half as long hash functions. (What do you mean it doesn't work that way?)
20:57:06 <variable> elliott, ah. I was thinking of something like !grab user :-}
20:58:02 <fizzie> Where is hackego, anyway?
20:58:37 <Phantom_Hoover> !heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllppppppppppp
20:58:49 <Gregor> I stabbed 'im with a filet knife.
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20:59:16 <elliott> `addquote <fizzie> And to think: if only we wouldn't celebrate birthdays, there would be no birthday paradox, and we could get by with half as long hash functions. (What do you mean it doesn't work that way?)
20:59:39 <HackEgo> 261) <fizzie> And to think: if only we wouldn't celebrate birthdays, there would be no birthday paradox, and we could get by with half as long hash functions. (What do you mean it doesn't work that way?)
20:59:39 <Gregor> Mine to stab and/or filet.
20:59:48 <HackEgo> 183) <ais523> you should be eating corpses more
20:59:56 <HackEgo> 32) <ais523> after all, what are DVD players for?
20:59:58 <HackEgo> 226) <Phantom_Hoover> [...] I'm just widening the shaft to be 4x2 or so.
21:00:00 <HackEgo> 100) <Ami> Discrimination fields ACTIVATE.
21:00:02 <HackEgo> 165) <cheater99> you don't have an urethra, you're a girl.
21:00:10 <Phantom_Hoover> <variable> elliott, ah. I was thinking of something like !grab user :-}
21:00:16 <elliott> The quotes are of ... mixed quality.
21:00:22 <elliott> I *did* clean them up before! but somehow it hasn't helped
21:00:51 <EgoBot> sh read p; if [ "x$p" = "x" ]; then p=5; fi; echo "scale=$p; a(1)*4;" | BC_LINE_LENGTH=490 bc -l | tr -d '\\'
21:01:54 <EgoBot> Interpreter grab installed.
21:02:02 <HackEgo> 209) <fungot> elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. \ 212) <fungot> elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. \ 221) <Gregor> elliott: My university has
21:02:17 <elliott> That is, um, not quite what grab was meant to do, methinks.
21:02:31 <elliott> `quote <(elliott|ehird)[^>]+>
21:02:53 <variable> Phantom_Hoover, `grab user is supposed to `addquote the last thing user said
21:03:17 <EgoBot> Interpreter grab deleted.
21:03:20 <Gregor> Can't be done by da botses.
21:03:46 <variable> EgoBot, you got it WRONG - your missing digits
21:04:01 <Gregor> variable: They strictly react to their relevant activation character, they don't record anything else.
21:04:30 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Define something.
21:06:42 <HackEgo> 221) <Gregor> elliott: My university has two Poultry Science buildings. <Gregor> Two!
21:09:44 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: I think a(1) is precise up to the given "scale", it's just that it takes a(1)*4 there. See, 3.14156/4 = 0.78539; that's... well, actually that's only a truncated five-significant-digits of a(1), not a rounded one. There's that too.
21:09:55 <Vorpal> Ilari, it kept counting up insanely fast
21:10:27 <Vorpal> ineiros, I logged off when minecraft started swap trashing from it
21:10:35 <fizzie> That's a lot of players.
21:10:51 <Vorpal> fizzie, except mcmap didn't report a lot of players showing up
21:11:27 <Vorpal> and now server seems down
21:12:04 <Vorpal> oklopol, you were on just before that happened. Is it down?
21:12:08 <Vorpal> did you see the same thing?
21:13:32 <oerjan> ...there really _are_ no quotes by him?
21:13:53 <HackEgo> 7) <oerjan> what, you mean that wasn't your real name? <Warrigal> Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 19) <oerjan> ehird has gone insane, clearly. \ 21) <fungot> oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really
21:14:08 <oerjan> i don't think that grep is entirely accurate...
21:14:54 <elliott> i think < may be a special char
21:15:01 <elliott> or maybe it's still broken
21:15:04 <elliott> i think it was broken at one point
21:15:04 <oerjan> elliott: [<]oe should have matched <oerjan>, no?
21:15:14 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6107
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21:18:50 <elliott> could file(1) be enough to detect programming languages, I wonder?
21:19:54 <Vorpal> elliott, for some certainly: #!/bin/sh is a definitely clue for the first line
21:20:06 <elliott> Vorpal: I mean with the default db -- I recall file tells me "C source" sometimes
21:20:15 <elliott> but the file here I have is OS X file which is ~limited, so i'll ssh into rutian to check
21:20:24 <variable> elliott, you need to have a good magic database
21:20:30 <variable> but yes - it could be good enough
21:20:38 <Phantom_Hoover> The order in which Oolite loads OXPs is non-deterministic.
21:20:41 <variable> elliott, but if you want something even better - look at ohloh
21:20:42 <elliott> well ubuntu file can't detect ruby code at least
21:20:50 <Vorpal> elliott, but then it identifies charset and such, and that isn't using the magic db iirc
21:21:03 <elliott> variable: ohloh tends to get things wildly wrong in my experience :-D
21:21:12 <elliott> variable: and i doubt they have some open source software to do the magic
21:21:33 <Vorpal> elliott, mostly ohloh mixes up C and C++, though it was worse before
21:21:48 <Vorpal> elliott, and yes their software for doing that is/was FOSS
21:21:57 <elliott> their site is hell to navigate so links would be nice :D
21:21:58 <Vorpal> it does basic line counting stuff too
21:22:08 <Vorpal> elliott, google for "ohcount" iirc
21:22:22 <elliott> all I need is language detection for single streams of text, for my pastebin
21:22:24 <variable> http://sourceforge.net/p/ohloh/oh-count/ci/452d902d8f69afc10eecb2e382b0f39cc2342e92/tree/
21:22:28 <elliott> I imagine using the file extension would be more practical, though :)
21:22:53 <elliott> huh, that does not look like normal sourceforge.
21:23:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: this semi-useless site.
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21:29:36 * Phantom_Hoover decides to poke into Oolite's code just to show that fixing the loading order would be trivial.
21:29:56 <oerjan> > fix((0:).tail.(([[0,1],[1,0]]!!)=<<))
21:29:58 <lambdabot> [0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,...
21:30:14 <variable> elliott, ohloh used to be owned by sourceforge
21:30:22 <elliott> variable: oh. that explains the suckage.
21:30:27 <oklopol> hmmhm, so i guess fizzie stopped working on the win version
21:30:38 <elliott> you just didn't redownload
21:30:39 <elliott> i even pinged you about it
21:30:56 <oklopol> i think i downloaded that version and it didn't wokr
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21:31:06 <oklopol> at least i downloaded one after fizzie said it works
21:31:14 <oklopol> unfortunately it crashed when someone talked
21:31:26 <elliott> oklopol: didn't he redo it
21:31:31 <oklopol> so i can prolly use it now
21:31:41 <oklopol> i'll just hope none of you play today
21:32:21 <fizzie> No, I didn't "redo" it, since I'm not sure why it crashes.
21:32:31 <fizzie> I'll try to get it working, though.
21:32:43 <fizzie> But not today; I'll be un-internetted fri/sat/sun, and have to do some packing before.
21:33:06 <fizzie> It's comforting to know that when it crashes in Wine, it in fact crashes also in real life, because then I can perhaps test it locally too.
21:35:06 <elliott> fizzie: how can you ever be uninternetted WHY
21:35:17 <elliott> wait are you moving, can i come visit, oklopol will come too
21:35:29 <fizzie> No, no, it's just the Stockholm trip I mentioned.
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21:38:57 <elliott> fizzie: so err i don't quite understand zpaste, does it store pastes in files
21:39:40 <fizzie> Named after, well, the name.
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21:49:46 <cheater99> are we talking about the stockholm syndrome?
21:54:24 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, you have failed in your duties as Selector Of Components.
21:58:34 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: What's your budget again? £3?
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21:59:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Wasn't it £800?
22:00:16 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: And ... general requirements? :P
22:00:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Doesn't crash when I play Oolite with the Griff ships.
22:01:18 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You could get that for £300. :p
22:05:52 <elliott> pikhq: When taking a short (40 or 48-bit) prefix of a hash function, is it best to take a prefix of SHA-1 or one of the SHA-2 functions? If the latter, which?
22:06:25 <oklopol> how do you usually walk from the cube, or do you always /spawn?
22:06:57 <elliott> oklopol: walk from to where
22:07:23 <oklopol> well, anywhere, it's pretty disconnected from the others
22:07:33 <oklopol> which are mostly near spawn
22:08:40 <elliott> hmm i wonder where mount hoover is relative to cube
22:08:43 <elliott> i think it's quite close in one axis
22:08:49 <elliott> and a bit of a walk in the other
22:10:32 <elliott> oklopol: i'd just walk back to spawn really
22:10:48 <elliott> oklopol: i'd walk to ineiros and use the minecart system ... except getting into ineiros' pit from below is hard
22:11:01 <oklopol> yeah, that's why i'm asking
22:11:03 <elliott> but the minecart system is connected to pretty much anywhere, so if you get on there you're golden, assuming lag is low enough
22:11:18 <elliott> oklopol: you could make a hole outside ineiros' pit that leads near the minecart station there :D
22:11:19 <Deewiant> The track to my place is probably nearest, it's how I go to the cube.
22:11:20 <oklopol> because i couldn't find a way there, so anyway i decided i'll just walk at random until i find something, it's worked for me sofar
22:11:31 <elliott> after all Phantom_Hoover did the connecting, not ineiros
22:11:39 <elliott> Deewiant: you go to your house, and then walk to the cube?
22:11:45 <elliott> that must take a long time surely
22:11:54 <Deewiant> No, I start from spawn, minecart to around x = -200, then walk the rest.
22:12:47 <elliott> Deewiant: er how, the express doesn't have any stops?
22:12:50 <elliott> do you just sit there monitoring F3
22:13:01 <elliott> Deewiant: how do you get out
22:13:28 <Deewiant> I've dug two sets of stairs out (the second because I couldn't find the first; at the top I noticed it was about two blocks to the side)
22:13:29 <elliott> Deewiant: how I do it is: go to ineiros, jump out the northern end, walk over the tiny hill there, then just go west to the cube (about 400 zs away)
22:13:38 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: what's your way?
22:13:45 <Deewiant> My way is probably faster than yours then
22:13:50 <Deewiant> Given that it's also around 400 zs
22:13:52 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: uh sort of.
22:13:55 <elliott> i don't really use it much :D
22:14:12 <elliott> Deewiant: yeah but mine doesn't involve holding down F3 and gettin' all twichy
22:14:19 <pikhq> The US military is *cutting its budget*.
22:14:26 <elliott> pikhq: also, hell is chilly
22:14:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Turn it on, with map mode, then walk to fizzie's, then to that weird dirt thing in the sky, then to the Hall of Midas, then to the cube.
22:14:43 <Deewiant> elliott: It's not twitchy, just click once at around 200. :-P
22:15:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: "weird dirt thing in the sky"?
22:16:12 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: you mean the one with the tree?
22:16:16 <j-invariant> elliott: "Indeed, the pretty printer is too stupid to rename identifiers in case of clash. The result is incomprehensible output as you witnessed. A possible workaround is to try and name identifiers everywhere in the input.
22:16:28 <elliott> j-invariant: where's that from :D
22:16:37 <j-invariant> http://www.reddit.com/r/dependent_types/comments/efb3y/micro_agda_a_simplistic_language_with_native/c1bolme?context=3
22:16:39 <elliott> pikhq: PREFIX SHA-1 OR SHA-2
22:16:53 <pikhq> BECAUSE HIGHER NUMBERS ARE BETTER DOOD
22:17:02 <elliott> ais523: do you know anything about this
22:18:23 <pikhq> $178 billion cut in war spending.
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22:18:54 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Partly to make the US budget more balanced, partly because it's a bunch of stuff that is completely unneeded.
22:19:33 <pikhq> And Republicans are upset about it.
22:19:38 <pikhq> "We're in two wars!"
22:19:54 <elliott> j-invariant: i love how that reddit discussion is about the difficult task of proving that 0 is not 1
22:19:58 <pikhq> ... And nearly insolvent, and the military budget is half the budget.
22:20:33 <fizzie> There is indeed a weird dirt thing; I've wondered about it. What's it supposed to be?
22:20:47 <j-invariant> elliott: thies thing has horrible code duplication
22:20:58 <oklopol> but even with the usual set theoretic construction definition of complex numbers, isn't 0 != 1 trivial?
22:21:03 <j-invariant> elliott: yeah you can't prove that in this language :P
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22:21:16 <oklopol> i know 1 != 2 is almost direct at least
22:21:20 <elliott> j-invariant: hey it represents dependent values as their folds
22:21:34 <elliott> oklopol: lol @ specifying it on complexes
22:21:45 <Phantom_Hoover> I just know that from it you can see the Hall of Midas on the map.
22:22:01 <oklopol> if you use something like successor functions, then 0 != 1 is basically by def
22:22:10 <elliott> pikhq: sha-224, 256, 384 or 512
22:22:18 <oklopol> and if you're doing reals, might as well do complexes
22:22:56 <oklopol> or probably it's trivial but hell of a chore for some technical reason?
22:23:10 <pikhq> elliott: Laik, higher numbers better
22:23:28 <elliott> pikhq: laik, clearly the 512 thing has all its hash info spread out whereas 256 is more compact
22:23:34 <elliott> so taking a prefix of 256 is more useful
22:24:02 <oklopol> so it's by definition, but you can't access the definition
22:24:14 <elliott> 00:51:58 <AnMaster> I have decided to use spivak on IRC, all over.
22:24:16 <elliott> Vorpal: that didn't work out
22:24:29 <elliott> j-invariant: can you prove true /= false in uagda?
22:26:09 <fizzie> elliott: Well, SHA-224 == SHA-256 except with different initial state and it's "pre-truncated" by omitting one 32-bit word at the end, so for truncation purposes it's pretty likely SHA-224 and SHA-256 are essentially equivalent; the same for SHA-384 vs. SHA-512.
22:26:38 <fizzie> The truncated versions aren't even any faster to compute.
22:26:41 <elliott> fizzie: Well, right. I'm just wondering whether it's better to take a small prefix of SHA-1, SHA-256, or HSA
22:26:57 <elliott> j-invariant: can you prove (\sf zf -> zf) /= (\n sf zf -> sf (n sf zf)) in Coq given uhh I forget the name of the axiom
22:27:06 <elliott> forall f g,(f=g)<->(forall x, f x = g x)
22:27:33 <elliott> (exists x, f x /= gx) -> (f/=g) from that
22:28:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: If and only if it's lined with obsidian.
22:28:22 <elliott> I do not want any "accidental" breakages that leave LavaLite flooded everywhere.
22:28:35 <j-invariant> this is so annoying, I can't see how to make this code print out names properly
22:29:24 <Vorpal> <elliott> Vorpal: that didn't work out <-- indeed
22:29:45 <elliott> i might just start calling everyone and everything "it"
22:29:45 <oklopol> what's the biggest cave in the world?
22:30:02 <elliott> there are tons of massive cavern systems that keep connecting to things you didn't know about :D
22:30:08 <oklopol> sorry, manmade hole in earth
22:30:28 <oklopol> i mean in terms of blocks removed
22:30:36 <oklopol> i guess the whole fucking system is connected
22:30:53 <fizzie> Most of that is "natural" cavernetics, though.
22:31:01 <oklopol> but anyway, at subtree, the actual number of blocks removed did not look like that much
22:31:07 <fizzie> I would think Vorpal's mines have the largest number of blocks removed.
22:31:24 <elliott> oklopol: well ineiros' pit basically... vorpal's mines don't count as holes since
22:31:31 <elliott> i don't know what they count as; a diagnosis?
22:31:38 <oklopol> erm, ineiros' pit is not very big
22:31:43 <Vorpal> fizzie, what about the old mines?
22:31:44 <fizzie> oklopol: It's very deep, though.
22:31:46 <elliott> oklopol: um it goes down to near bedrock
22:31:53 <elliott> oklopol: very near in fact
22:32:02 <elliott> oklopol: and it's on a high mountain
22:32:09 <oklopol> i've built like 10 caves like that, never from a mountain tho
22:32:15 <oklopol> but point is, that is not that many blocks
22:32:18 <Vorpal> <elliott> oklopol: well ineiros' pit basically... vorpal's mines don't count as holes since <-- why not
22:32:25 <elliott> Vorpal: because they're not hollow
22:32:38 <oklopol> possibly never as big, because i just do it when i wanna start underground mining
22:32:51 <oklopol> i mean, in area, which of course means much less blocks
22:33:20 <elliott> oklopol: well. the stairs aren't really holes
22:33:23 <elliott> they're ... diagonal holes :D
22:34:07 <fizzie> oklopol: http://zem.fi/~fis/miney.png -- that thing top-right is I think parts of Vorpal's mines. (But I'm no expert on them.)
22:34:25 <fizzie> The mine tunnels aren't that many blocks either, I guess.
22:34:41 <fizzie> But I don't think we have very large man-made holes there.
22:34:42 <oklopol> more than ineiros' pit surely
22:35:19 <oklopol> they were definitely tons longer than 128
22:35:38 <j-invariant> people should just fix their code for me :(
22:35:40 <oklopol> and maybe like sixth of the area? can't really assess
22:36:26 <Vorpal> <fizzie> oklopol: http://zem.fi/~fis/miney.png -- that thing top-right is I think parts of Vorpal's mines. (But I'm no expert on them.) <-- yep
22:36:33 <fizzie> oklopol: It's composed of rather thin tunnels, though.
22:37:16 <oklopol> so if i make mines like that, people can just look at them with an editor?
22:37:19 <Vorpal> fizzie, nice view of my tree farm too there.
22:37:33 <fizzie> It's hard to get a good grasp of block-volumes from the slices generated by mcmap.
22:37:34 <Vorpal> oklopol, fizzie is using mcmap
22:37:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, I have no clue about the block volumes either
22:37:56 <oklopol> i thought you needed to have been there, but clearly fizzie hasn't gone to your mines
22:38:20 <elliott> fizzie: so do i prefix SHA-1, SHA-256 or SHA-512 INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW
22:38:23 <fizzie> oklopol: I have, in fact, but I didn't this time. The region shown there is the region the server sends chunks for when you stand there in the middle.
22:38:24 <Vorpal> oklopol, he is on ground somewhere near
22:38:27 <elliott> oklopol: you just need to go close enough
22:38:35 <fizzie> Vorpal: On top of your mountain, in fact.
22:39:37 <fizzie> Random thought: I could have mcmap generate a "minecraft-compatible" world-dump, though; then you could "play" in there, and also run all those pretty-picture offline mapmakers if you wanted. (Though of course only the regions you had walked around in mcmap.)
22:40:15 <fizzie> I've forgotten whether you got the terrain-generation seed out of the handshake packets; it might've been there. (And it might have not.)
22:40:52 <Vorpal> fizzie, even if you do, my mines are in pre-halloween but iirc a tiny section crosses into post-halloween
22:41:31 <fizzie> Yes, you'd get discontinuatitities there, but less. And of course I could make mcmap able to "overwrite" an existing world-dump if you already went and moved around in there.
22:41:49 <fizzie> Yes, the map seed is in fact there.
22:42:42 <fizzie> Incidentally, I did put a launcher-option-setting dialog in the win32 port, with pure win32 api. Mwah-ahaha. (But I didn't fix the crashing bugs. Priorities, priorities...)
22:43:28 <elliott> fizzie: Ooh, ooh, make sure to misspell words, make the padding all weird, have checkboxes for things that should be radio buttons, and ideally have only one button, "Do it", and have the actual action controlled by other elements of the interface.
22:43:37 <elliott> fizzie: Writing "Username:" as "UserName :" gets extra bonus points.
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22:43:48 <fizzie> It is very weird when it comes to control-positioning.
22:44:04 <elliott> fizzie: As well as using a title like "::[ McMAP v.3.2 ] by fizzie:: [Connect]"
22:45:23 <j-invariant> elliott: would it be cheeky to fix the bug in such a horrible way that he feels the need to rewrite the whole thing better rather than applying it?
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22:45:48 <elliott> j-invariant: you social engineer, you
22:46:57 <elliott> j-invariant: please tell me you can get quuxquuxquux
22:47:42 <elliott> j-invariant: why not just make it use '
22:50:39 <elliott> pikhq: Coreutils in HASKELL -- best idea or worst idea or worst idea or best worst idea
22:50:52 <pikhq> elliott: Both. Simultaneously.
22:51:02 <elliott> pikhq: HERE'S MY CAT IMPLEMENTATION
22:51:09 <elliott> main = putStr =<< getContents
22:51:22 <elliott> oh wait should probably disable buffering before doing that
22:52:05 <elliott> pikhq: well i have something to tell you brother
22:52:18 <elliott> TOO PUSSY FOR THAT? WELL THEN FUCK OFF
22:52:30 <pikhq> Well, that makes cat useless...
22:54:23 <elliott> Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air:~ ehird$ <foo.sml
22:54:23 <elliott> Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air:~ ehird$
22:54:27 <elliott> I don't know what shell that works on.
22:54:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: No. It's like a cat: it repeats everything you say.
22:54:44 <elliott> Or was that a parrot? Same thing, anyway.
22:55:02 <pikhq> elliott: Huh, thought most shells did that.
22:55:02 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: IT IS GREAT it says "polly wants a cracker" a lot and sometimes i let it out of its cage.
22:55:08 <pikhq> elliott: Well, it does work in zsh.
22:55:10 <elliott> pikhq: using bash 3 here :D
22:55:18 <elliott> pikhq: Oh, zsh is totally crazy with pipelines.
22:55:22 <elliott> pikhq: Try this: "cat <x <y <z".
22:55:27 <elliott> pikhq: In fact, "<x <y <z" should work.
22:55:33 <elliott> Yes, zsh has cat built into its pipelines.
22:55:35 <elliott> Because it's fucking crazy.
22:55:44 <pikhq> Sure enough, it does.
22:55:44 <elliott> pikhq: Did I mention that multiple outputs does "tee"?
22:55:53 <pikhq> And yes, I'm well aware of that.
22:56:06 <elliott> Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air% <foo.sml <foo.sml >x >y
22:56:07 <elliott> Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air% <x <y
22:56:07 <elliott> fun main = print "Hello, world!\n"
22:56:08 <elliott> fun main = print "Hello, world!\n"
22:56:10 <elliott> fun main = print "Hello, world!\n"
22:56:12 <elliott> fun main = print "Hello, world!\n"
22:56:36 <Mathnerd314> just another example of the shift from libraries tolanguages
22:57:13 <elliott> zsh has always been crazy, there's no "shift"
22:57:19 <elliott> and shells hardly have "libraries"
22:57:22 <elliott> they've always built shit in.
22:57:49 <elliott> fizzie: DO I PREFIX SHA-1, SHA-256, OR SHA-512, I AM LITERALLY IMPLODING RIGHT NOW?
23:00:40 <Mathnerd314> elliott: the question is whether more people use zsh
23:01:17 <j-invariant> right now maybe I can figure out this silly thing
23:02:40 <Mathnerd314> elliott: than weak shells with less-powerful input languages
23:03:03 <elliott> Mathnerd314: zsh is vastly less popular than bash. also, a less bloated shell is not "weaker".
23:03:09 <elliott> shells are, after all, an interface to unix.
23:03:22 <elliott> "<x <y <z" is also something you would never see in zsh on its own; "cat x y z" does the job perfectly well.
23:04:06 <elliott> ">x >y" is also fairly pointless as "| tee x >y" does the job just as well.
23:04:44 <fizzie> elliott: Oh, right, that. Well, I mean, theoretically speaking SHA-512 will have a larger safety margin (more rounds and so on) when it comes to getting breaked so that you can solve it faster than brute-force, but if your truncation is small enough to be practically bruteforceable then it really doesn't matter.
23:05:38 <elliott> fizzie: sha256 is a lot faster, at least (when applied to large images; though I am using the hideously efficient pure library. I'll try a binding.)
23:06:08 <fizzie> I might just go with a truncated SHA-256, it's cheaper to compute than SHA-512 and all. And I'm sure hashing speed will of course be your bottleneck.
23:06:25 <elliott> fizzie: It will, yes, my network is instant.
23:07:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I have a feeling that OS X users tend to use zsh. I don't know why.
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23:07:36 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I blame your heritage.
23:07:40 <Vorpal> elliott, what will you do in case of a collision?
23:07:42 <pikhq> elliott: That combines with every *other* redirection thing, though.
23:07:53 <Vorpal> elliott, on the truncated hash I mean
23:07:58 <elliott> Vorpal: *** OH GOD HASH COLLISION: WHY GOD WHY
23:08:07 <elliott> Vorpal: The likely of a hash collision with 40 or 48 bits is pretty unlikely :p
23:08:09 <pikhq> elliott: >(x) >(y)
23:08:14 <elliott> If I wasn't _specifically_ trying to break shit.
23:08:19 <Vorpal> elliott, so it will properly refuse upload of the collided file then?
23:08:20 <elliott> pikhq: Clearly | should be sugar for >(...).
23:08:24 <oerjan> <elliott> main = putStr =<< getContents <-- you mean main = interact id >:)
23:08:29 <elliott> oerjan: i was considering that :)
23:08:39 <Vorpal> elliott, how will it handle exact dupe
23:08:48 <elliott> Vorpal: What do you mean. Uploading the same file twice?
23:08:58 <elliott> It'll just barf out and say there's a hash collision, probably. :p
23:09:09 <elliott> I might make it say "This has already been added! ...or else there's a hash collision."
23:09:13 <elliott> It is, after all, single-user.
23:11:38 <Vorpal> fizzie, why leave the game? :/
23:11:54 <j-invariant> elliott: after before before http://pastebin.com/swa5r518
23:11:55 <fizzie> Vorpal: Early morning tomorrow, have a boat to catch.
23:12:23 <elliott> fizzie: a boat? you so zany
23:12:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, hope it doesn't break. But in case it does bring 4 wood
23:12:27 <elliott> fizzie: don't finns have zeppelins
23:12:59 <elliott> anyone know a country with lax border checks?
23:13:02 <elliott> we can have an esoteric meetup there
23:14:21 <Sgeo> elliott, what's your opinion of TinyCore?
23:14:23 <oerjan> elliott: you cannot have zeppelins in worlds where the nazis have lost the war, duh
23:14:36 <fizzie> elliott: You only need about a million pasted items before the probability of having at least one collision in there starts to get close to 50%, for a 40-bit hash.
23:14:45 <elliott> Sgeo: It's not called TinyCore, for one.
23:14:53 <elliott> oerjan: untrue (c.f. His Dark Materials)
23:14:59 <oerjan> simple time traveler axiom
23:15:13 <oerjan> elliott: i haven't read that SO IT DOESN'T EXIST
23:15:17 <oklopol> how rare is clay? i don't remember seeing any on your map before this, and all i've done is walked around at random for hours
23:15:18 <fizzie> I guess for private use it's not too bad.
23:15:30 <fizzie> oklopol: Quite a lot of nearby clay has been snarfed up.
23:15:47 * Phantom_Hoover is very upset that zeppelins never took off (har har).
23:15:52 <fizzie> (But it is a bit on the rare side too.)
23:16:11 <oklopol> i don't never be in the near.
23:16:39 <fizzie> Clay pretty much only happens near sandy beaches.
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23:16:54 <Sgeo> Did I even eat breakfast today?
23:16:57 <Sgeo> I don't think so
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23:17:20 <Vorpal> <fizzie> Clay pretty much only happens near sandy beaches. <-- also in deserts
23:17:26 <elliott> oerjan: you'd hate his dark materials, it's preachy-atheist :)
23:17:39 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: but i thought they were the bomb!
23:18:11 <j-invariant> stick + coal --> burning torch ... makes sense
23:18:54 <fizzie> And four ingots of iron and a pile of redstone dust -> compass! Also obvious!
23:19:48 <fizzie> A diamond inside some planks -> jukebox! Equally clear!
23:20:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Clearly you mash a quarter of a bit of coal into a quarter of a stick.
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23:20:54 <fizzie> You have to place a torch before it starts giving out any light. Obvious!
23:21:04 <oerjan> to light stick, right click
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23:21:54 <fizzie> (Though did the better-light mod add a carried-torch light source too? Maybe I am just imagining things. There is at least one handheld-torch-light mod.)
23:22:14 <fizzie> oerjan: But where should I write "click" to?
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23:22:47 <elliott> j-invariant: met a creeper yet?
23:22:55 <elliott> fizzie: no, better light doesn't add that
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23:23:26 <j-invariant> yes I drilled into the side of a mountain and there was a lava stream below so I went that way and then this guy jumps out of nowhere and blows up right next to me LOL
23:23:39 <elliott> j-invariant: did you see his face
23:23:42 <elliott> j-invariant: his horrifying
23:23:44 <elliott> j-invariant: horrifying face
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23:25:52 <Vorpal> elliott, you just broke oklopol trying to get coord when you spoke
23:26:02 <Vorpal> he *just* rejoined with mcmap
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23:32:19 <cheater99> nice, gdmflexiserver has an easter egg
23:33:19 <elliott> cheater99: btw i'm just gonna buy a superdrive
23:33:32 <elliott> i've already given apple >£1k, what's £60 more, sigh
23:33:39 <cheater99> elliott: i thought in case you ever need to measure \pi in a rudimentary setup that only has sh and gdmflexiserver.
23:35:25 <cheater99> elliott: ubuntu is free, think of it as still being cheaper than windows vista.. and you get a free disk drive!
23:35:44 <cheater99> today i found out we've got a 10" hard drive in another room
23:36:03 <cheater99> it's huge and bulky and the metal casing is like 2cm thick cast iron
23:36:28 <cheater99> it could survive an atomic blast ez
23:38:17 <variable> http://rigaux.org/language-study/syntax-across-languages --> people here might be interested
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