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00:18:17 <oerjan> 01:15 elliott> one of the two steps from hell guys
00:18:17 <oerjan> 01:16 elliott> oerjan: is from trondheim
00:18:32 <oerjan> well hell _is_ only a half hour drive from trondheim.
00:27:18 <elliott> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:15:33 +0100
00:27:18 <elliott> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 7/5/10
00:27:18 <elliott> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
00:27:18 <elliott> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
00:27:21 <elliott> Subject: editor saved ``.git/COMMIT_EDITMSG''
00:27:23 <elliott> You were editing the file ".git/COMMIT_EDITMSG"
00:27:25 <elliott> at <Fri Oct 28 17:15> on the machine ``dinky''
00:27:27 <elliott> when the editor was killed.
00:27:29 <elliott> You can retrieve most of your changes to this file
00:27:31 <elliott> using the "recover" command of the editor.
00:27:33 <elliott> An easy way to do this is to give the command "vi -r .git/COMMIT_EDITMSG".
00:27:35 <elliott> This method also works using "ex" and "edit".
00:37:42 <Vorpal> elliott, ~/dead.letter is there because you don't have a MTA setup
00:37:50 <Vorpal> and something tried to mail
00:37:58 <elliott> i know what dead.letter is
00:38:12 <oerjan> elliott has killed many a letter
00:38:15 <Vorpal> so why did you paste it?
00:38:23 <elliott> because the letter is funny
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01:07:20 <oerjan> And time is running backwards. And so is the bride.
01:16:18 <elliott> oerjan: hey i was just /wondering/ about the dst when i said hmm
01:16:31 <elliott> s/just \/wondering\//\/just wondering\//
01:20:13 <elliott> assuming oerjan is referring to dst.
01:20:45 <oerjan> yes hack & slash is _so_ connected with dst
01:26:00 <oerjan> if you look at it objectivistically
01:34:21 <CakeProphet> if a tree falls on an objectivist and no one else hears it: does anyone else care?
01:34:55 <oerjan> depends where you buried the body.
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01:40:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found
01:40:51 <lambdabot> http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/index.html
01:44:15 <elliott> you're just not looking in the right place
01:44:36 <oerjan> but that doesn't help poor EgoBot
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02:12:04 <CakeProphet> do C++ templates make C++ kind of sort of dependently typed?
02:12:51 * oerjan looks worried at elliott
02:16:52 <CakeProphet> it's more like macro expansion than dependent types.
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02:23:05 <madbr> whee doing ARM assembly at work
02:28:26 <madbr> speed optimizing sound code :3
02:33:06 <monqy> CakeProphet:.....:(
02:33:45 <madbr> doing a reverb atm and it's a challenge :3
02:35:29 <CakeProphet> I'm sorry I've never dealt with dependent types so I don't know much about them. T<A, B, C, 4> looked kind of like dependent types.
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02:36:43 <monqy> CakeProphet: you know perfectly well what you did
02:36:49 <monqy> CakeProphet: do you feel no shame
02:41:14 <monqy> 19:26:08 < CakeProphet> you madbr o?
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02:42:55 <oerjan> CakeProphet: i suppose C++ templates would be dependently typed if they actually _had_ types.
02:43:56 <oerjan> wait why am i even speaking, i don't know c++ templates.
02:46:24 <CakeProphet> oerjan: right thus more like macro expansion
02:46:47 <CakeProphet> but kind of like dependent types if you think of templates as a kind of parametric type (which I think is a pretty reasonable analogy)
02:48:08 <CakeProphet> see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_metaprogramming
02:50:35 <CakeProphet> but unless you store the value parameters in a struct or something you don't really have access to the value at runtime.
02:52:39 <copumpkin> templates do allow you to do most of the things you can do in haskell's type system
02:52:46 <copumpkin> but that doesn't mean it's dependent
02:53:02 <CakeProphet> considering, uh, Haskell is not dependently typed. :P
02:53:15 <copumpkin> well, haskell approaches dependent types with GADTs
02:53:25 <copumpkin> they give you pseudo type-depending-on-value behavior
03:12:31 <elliott> monqy: as soon as https://github.com/pbrisbin/aurget/pull/4 is merged you should switch over to aurget :p
03:13:58 <monqy> once I need an aur, sure
03:15:12 <madbr> wonder if it would be possible to make an efficient dataflow oriented VLIW processor :D
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03:16:01 <oerjan> copumpkin: zzo38's recent logic experiments made me wonder - while haskell isn't dependently typed, is haskell's _type system_ dependently typed, with all the extensions heaped up so far...
03:16:38 <oerjan> as in, if you just ignore the values and look at the types as values
03:16:49 <copumpkin> then you'd have to see the types influencing kinds
03:16:58 <copumpkin> which they don't, because we don't even have kind polymorphism yet
03:17:02 <elliott> monqy: everyone always needs an aur
03:17:14 <copumpkin> but as far as values and types, it sort of already is dependently typed already
03:17:33 <oerjan> copumpkin: well someone is adding it, i think i saw...
03:17:54 <copumpkin> not sure how the GADT equivalent will work at the kind level
03:27:36 <oerjan> is this intended to allow things like making Data and Typeable kind polymorphic?
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03:35:23 <elliott> fun to see someone discussing your bug report minutes after you make it on IRC :P
03:35:33 <elliott> (without knowing you're there)
03:49:13 <elliott> Zero-Analogy Monad Tutorial (unknownparallel.com)
03:53:20 <oerjan> monads are like elliott-eating monsters
03:53:48 <Patashu> monads are like things that are difficult to explain
03:55:14 <coppro> elliott: I don't see a ZAMT there
03:55:20 <monqy> monads are like things that are easy to explain
03:55:29 <elliott> coppro: it was a paste from a reddit.com line
03:55:34 <elliott> "<elliott> no get it away from me" was my reaction
03:55:51 <elliott> anything i post that looks like a title and a domain in parens is me being snarky at programming reddit links :P
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04:19:57 <elliott> I can safely say that Vorpal was completely right about #archlinux and it is beyond even the wildest dreams of people who dream about really bad IRC channels.
04:20:17 <elliott> <ZipSplat> I typed: sudo rc.d start webmin -x
04:20:17 <elliott> <ZipSplat> And got nothing
04:20:17 <elliott> <zendeavor> stop trying to use webmic
04:20:17 <elliott> <ZipSplat> "getopt: invalid option -- 'x'"
04:20:22 <elliott> <lstarnes> you don't want that
04:20:24 <elliott> <ZipSplat> Why does everything suck?
04:20:26 <elliott> <lstarnes> sudo bash -x /etc/rc.d/webmin start
04:20:39 <elliott> THANKS ZENDEAVOR, I'M SURE ZIPSPLAT REALLY APPRECIATES YOUR HELP
04:21:12 <elliott> Patashu: this guy literally talks all the time
04:21:34 <elliott> like there hasn't been a five minute stretch when (a) I've been in #archlinux (b) he isn't talking every tenth line
04:21:56 <Patashu> clearly investigative journalism is required
04:21:59 <elliott> admittedly this ZipSplat guy is super annoying too :P
04:23:30 <oerjan> well neither is an op, it seems
04:23:57 <elliott> yeah, you should kline them. you're an ircop as well as a wiki admin, right?
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04:50:48 <elliott> <JCDenton> You know, I just came in here to say NetBeans had a sexy preloader, and now it's been half an hour
04:50:49 <elliott> <JCDenton> http://i.imgur.com/eRCu6.png That is seriously sexy though. Or maybe that's just because I love that shade of blue.
04:51:04 <elliott> Patashu: no seriously, any channel that allows more than three (there were earlier) messages of netbeans preloader praise is the worst
04:53:04 <elliott> <JCDenton> Why are so many IDE's Java powered anyways?
04:53:16 <elliott> netbeans is java??? so weird
05:03:37 <zzo38> The only effective control structure in the SQL reporting program I made is the for-each structure. It seem to be able to do most computations needed, but maybe there is something missing. Would it be needed? A virtual table that has an infinite number of records with values 0 for the first row, and then 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and so on... do you think it would help at all?
05:04:57 <Patashu> sometimes I wonder why that doesn't exist
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06:11:23 <fizzie> @tell Vorpal Re the triple fault, http://p.zem.fi/v6ll
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06:57:03 <elliott> fizzie: I like the not-in-the-usage "force".
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08:57:27 <Ngevd> @pl \x -> b ++ [x]
08:57:43 <lambdabot> forall a (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => a -> m a
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09:39:08 <Vorpal> Does anyone know a proper (as in, POSIX conforming) cat(1) in an esolang apart from the one I wrote in befunge98? I was cleaning up $HOME and just found it.
09:39:08 <lambdabot> Vorpal: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
09:40:37 <Vorpal> fizzie, " kbd Use the keyboard controller. cold reset (default)" <-- how does that even work
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10:58:31 <CakeProphet> I like how the language shootout has benchmarks on CINT
10:58:42 <CakeProphet> a good way to demonstrate the importance of implementation over language.
11:00:02 <CakeProphet> it's not like C has complex semantics when interpreted.
11:00:43 <CakeProphet> especially when carelessly coded... which is... often.
11:00:52 <Vorpal> C doesn't have complex semantics? Seriously?
11:01:08 <CakeProphet> I mean compared to perl I don't see what would slow it down so much at runtime
11:01:31 <CakeProphet> perhaps CINT is implemented in some poorly chosen language.
11:01:38 <CakeProphet> and is just a poorly implemented interpreter.
11:02:31 <CakeProphet> The language interpreted by CINT is actually something of a hybrid between C and C++, covering about 95% of ANSI C and 85% of C++. The syntax, however, is a bit more forgiving than either language. For example, the operator -> can be replaced by . with only an optional warning. In addition, statements on the command line do not need to end with a semi-colon, although this is necessary for statements in macros.
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11:04:29 <derdon> oh, thanks for welcoming me :)
11:05:03 <CakeProphet> I haven't seen you before. Are you new and stuff?
11:05:34 <fungot> CakeProphet: why would he have attempted?! decide!" on the floor tonight
11:05:35 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome: not found
11:06:07 <derdon> CakeProphet: I'm not really new, just a lurker in this channel ;)
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11:18:27 <derrik> some channels hate lurkers too
11:19:06 <derrik> i got my first kick on irc with message "lurking"
11:19:55 <derrik> i.e. for joining a channel and saying nothing for 15 minutes, while everybody else was also silent
11:20:48 <Vorpal> what was the transfer speed of a typical PC floppy drive btw? Anyone happens to know?
11:21:29 <Vorpal> must have been around a few kb/s
11:22:01 <Vorpal> olsner, yes but I'm looking for numbers here. Are we talking, say, 1 kb/s, 10 kb/s or 20 kb/s
11:22:29 <olsner> ISTR it took a few minutes to read (or format) the whole floppy
11:23:04 <Vorpal> formatting could have involved operations that took a different time than normal reading or writing
11:23:14 <Vorpal> but yeah, something like that
11:24:03 <olsner> so... 1440kB divided by something between 60s and 240s
11:24:58 <Vorpal> so between 6 and 24 kb/s approx?
11:28:30 <olsner> or look it up in the big table of storage device transfer speeds
11:28:58 <Vorpal> (who else would compile such a list?)
11:29:15 <olsner> I dunno, I haven't seen the list yet
11:29:38 <Vorpal> oh I thought you referred to some specific list you knew existed
11:30:00 <Vorpal> yeah wikipedia doesn't seem to have one
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11:31:09 <CakeProphet> Amount an unemployed Utah man is charging for the opportunity to hunt and kill him : $10,000
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11:47:52 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
11:57:45 <fizzie> Vorpal: The keyboard controller had an extra output pin they hooked up into the reboot like way back then, to provide a programmatic reset. Much like they did with the A20 gate.
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12:01:01 <fizzie> (Though I suppose the beep is a kinda-sorta keyboard-related thing.)
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12:39:36 <Ngevd> I've got a tuple of ([Int],[Char])
12:39:51 <Ngevd> Actually, I've got a bunch of those
12:40:22 <Ngevd> And I want to get rid of the ones with equal [Int] parts so it is unique
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12:52:02 <lambdabot> forall a b. (Eq a) => [(a, b)] -> [(a, b)]
12:53:14 <fizzie> > let l = [(1, "foo"), (2, "bar"), (1, "baz"), (3, "quux")] in nubBy ((==) `on` fst) l
12:53:25 <fizzie> I was just going to do that.
12:53:38 <fizzie> Deewiant is such a spoilamator.
12:53:59 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Why would that matter?
12:54:01 <lambdabot> forall a. (a -> a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a]
12:54:23 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, it doesn't, it's just hardly the best demonstration.
12:55:34 <fizzie> > let l = [([1], "foo"), ([2], "bar"), ([1], "baz"), ([3], "quux")] in nubBy ((==) `on` fst) l -- much improved.
12:55:35 <lambdabot> [([1],"foo"),([2],"bar"),([3],"quux")]
12:56:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Also, he said that he wanted to get rid of those with equal [Int] parts, not pick only one of them.
12:56:42 <fizzie> Well, I interpreted a bit.
12:57:24 <fizzie> Mostly from the "so it is unique" part, though admittedly completely removing multiple things would also match that.
12:58:42 <Ngevd> But it's not Phantom_Hoover's fault
12:58:49 <Ngevd> Also, I will go now
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14:38:50 <ais523> ooh, spam claiming to be from Microsoft
14:38:55 <ais523> I thought that died out years ago
14:44:46 <olsner> hmm, they broke the theme.. it sounds like they took the old theme and just added another theme on top of (or under) it
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16:40:46 <zzo38> Is this a proper way of representing a TFM font in Haskell? data Font = Font { fontName :: ByteString, fontChecksum :: Word32, atSize :: Word32, designSize :: Word32, fontDimen :: [Int32], firstChar :: Word8, leftBoundChar :: [LigKern], rightBoundChar :: Word8, characters :: [FontChar] } deriving (Eq, Show);
16:41:25 <zzo38> data FontChar = FontChar { charWidth :: Int32, charHeight :: Int32, charDepth :: Int32, charItalCorr :: Int32, charLarger :: Maybe Word8, charLigKern :: [LigKern], charExten :: Maybe Extensible } deriving (Eq, Show);
16:42:48 <zzo38> data LigKern = Kerning { lkChar :: Word8, kernDist :: Int32 } | Ligature { lkChar :: Word8, ligChar :: Word8, ligDelCur :: Bool, ligDelNext :: Bool, ligSkip :: Int } deriving (Eq, Show);
16:43:08 <zzo38> data Extensible = Extensible { extTop :: Word8, extMid :: Word8, extBot :: Word8, extRep :: Word8 } deriving (Eq, Show);
16:43:12 <ais523> do Americans really pronounce "buoy" as "booey"?
16:43:20 <ais523> or is it just this one particular American being crazy?
16:43:28 <ais523> (the UK pronunciation is "boy")
16:43:43 <zzo38> ais523: Probably it is more than one, and not only necessarily American.
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16:45:52 <Ngevd> I've written a crappy program to help me write Pietbot
16:46:26 <Ngevd> It's essentially a version of Dijkstra's algorithm, over the space of Piet programs that only use push 1, add, sub, mult, and dup
16:46:46 <Ngevd> It doesn't really work very well
16:47:42 <monqy> ais523: yeah I've only ever heard "booey"
16:48:15 <ais523> American English is bizarre sometimes
16:48:23 <ais523> but thanks for letting me know
16:48:32 <ais523> (I suppose British English is bizarre sometimes too)
16:49:51 <ais523> it's not like the word has a sensible spelling for either pronunciation
16:50:14 <Ngevd> Which word are we talking about?
16:50:36 <Ngevd> Definitely homophonic to "boy"
16:50:59 <Ngevd> Should be pronounce "boo-oi" if language was logical
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17:13:14 <evincar> Working on Even has given me a good idea for that other language I was working on, Very.
17:13:37 <evincar> I also found out that Unicode doesn't have a lot of the arrow symbols I want. :(
17:15:03 <Ngevd> Meanwhile, since IWC ended, I'm bingeing on Gunnerkrigg Court
17:16:29 <evincar> So, for a stack-based language, a good set of basic combinators is dup, swap, drop, quote, apply, compose.
17:16:53 <evincar> The problem with restricting it to stack-based operation is that you have to make a lot of unnecessary guarantees about sequence.
17:17:57 <evincar> If you make those (or any minimal set of) combinators into composition operations, then in, say, "x dup f g", you can perform f and g in parallel.
17:18:20 <evincar> You go from just composition into building a Big Damn DAG.
17:18:34 <evincar> I'm not even entirely sure it needs to be acyclic.
17:20:03 <Ngevd> I'm not too sure what you are on about
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17:25:58 <elliott> 09:40:37: <Vorpal> fizzie, " kbd Use the keyboard controller. cold reset (default)" <-- how does that even work
17:25:58 <elliott> 09:40:47: <Vorpal> I'm scared to look
17:26:04 <elliott> Vorpal: x86 does everything through the keyboard
17:27:52 <elliott> 11:31:09: <CakeProphet> Amount an unemployed Utah man is charging for the opportunity to hunt and kill him : $10,000
17:27:59 <elliott> amount CakeProphet is gullible: 100%
17:28:36 <Ngevd> There's an objective measure of gullibility now?
17:30:36 <olsner> Ngevd: it's measured in CakeProphets
17:39:37 <elliott> MERGE MY PULL REQUEST DAMMIT :|
17:41:42 <monqy> i always misread rosyarrow as roysarrow
17:42:07 <monqy> and it makes no sense
17:43:07 <elliott> Gregor: Yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
17:43:23 <elliott> Targets (8): glibc-2.14.1-1 gcc-libs-4.6.2-1 gcc-4.6.2-1 libltdl-2.4.2-2
17:43:23 <elliott> libpurple-2.10.0-3 libtool-2.4.2-2 pidgin-2.10.0-3
17:43:38 <elliott> How do core system packages even get upgraded this often.
17:44:39 <elliott> I wish Nix was actually pcsm instead so I could use NixOS.
17:45:34 <Vorpal> <elliott> Vorpal: x86 does everything through the keyboard <-- yeah, I forgot that
17:45:43 <Vorpal> elliott, it reminded me of the horrible A20 line
17:46:13 <Vorpal> elliott, and what scares me more is that it is still the default way of rebooting!
17:46:27 <elliott> Vorpal: You should have seen that reddit post.
17:46:42 <elliott> The one I can't find, about how Linux reboots.
17:46:53 <Vorpal> elliott, is that with or without kexec?
17:47:06 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway what does "grotty" mean?
17:47:09 <elliott> kexec doesn't actually involve a reboot.
17:47:12 <Vorpal> I seen you using it recently
17:47:23 <elliott> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/grotty
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18:13:32 <evincar> I've just seen this: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/dimitris/fc-kind-poly.pdf
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18:30:41 <elliott> I like how using GNOME apps in Xfce is now ultra-painful because of GTK3 themes.
18:31:32 <Vorpal> elliott, yes it sucks. I can live with it though, only eog and evince that have that issue for me. Don't use many gnome programs
18:31:36 <Vorpal> I use more KDE ones in fact
18:31:47 <elliott> For me it's file-roller and evince.
18:32:01 <Vorpal> ah, well I open file-roller sometimes
18:32:02 <elliott> Adwaita is in fact uglier than the Raleigh-esque "no theme" that it uses by default.
18:32:17 <Vorpal> elliott, Raleigh being?
18:32:25 <elliott> You know, the one that looks like Windows 95.
18:32:44 <Vorpal> elliott, and Adwaita is the weird GTK3 theme?
18:32:50 <Vorpal> that it defaults to normally
18:33:08 <elliott> It's the "standard" one. And, well, didn't default to it here; gnome-themes-standard isn't pulled in by the (tiny) xfce4 group.
18:33:15 <Vorpal> I forgot how that looked. I gave up on GNOME 3 after about half an hour of trying to get anything saneö.
18:33:16 <elliott> Although both gtk2 and gtk3 are.
18:33:19 <Madoka-Kaname> Because of some weird bug, I'm using a recolored Mist.
18:33:31 <elliott> It's the only acceptable colouration of Mist.
18:33:42 <Vorpal> I'm a clearlooks fan myself
18:33:59 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, given that Grey Mist only exists in your mind, apparently...
18:34:01 <Vorpal> Madoka-Kaname, what sort of computer?
18:34:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: People have used Grey Mist for years.
18:34:29 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, ISTR asking for a link, whereupon you told me it should be on my system, which it wasn't.
18:34:59 <elliott> Vorpal: NixOS doesn't let you roll back service state.
18:35:00 <Vorpal> Madoka-Kaname, just select old config in the grub menu and it will magically be back where it was before, modulo bootloader, which is quite a special case
18:35:12 <Vorpal> elliott, that is wrong then.
18:35:14 <elliott> Vorpal: This is because it is not pcsm.
18:35:24 <Vorpal> elliott, still it is better than most other distros currently available
18:35:29 <elliott> (You can rollback /default/ service state, I would think, but definitely not running service state.)
18:35:43 <Vorpal> Madoka-Kaname, I think it lets you rollback that too?
18:35:48 <Vorpal> Madoka-Kaname, it is not just kernel
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18:36:00 <Vorpal> Madoka-Kaname, it lets you rollback the system configuration because it is crazy awesome.
18:36:07 <Vorpal> Madoka-Kaname, not in nixos
18:36:16 <elliott> Anyway, what hopefully will happen is Clearlooks or whatever will be ported to GTK3 and then GTK2 will die.
18:36:36 <Vorpal> Madoka-Kaname, of course I'm a nixos fan. I'm not switching from arch just yet because of catalyst issues.
18:36:39 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Are you deliberately wasting my time?
18:37:15 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, you keep saying how fantastic it is and I can't find it for the life of me?
18:37:24 <elliott> [elliott@dinky esoteric]$ grep -r 'Grey Mist' . | grep sprunge
18:37:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah, you want me to grep the esoteric logs. This was completely clear from 'grep -r'.
18:38:15 <elliott> Nah, I leaked Grey Mist to #ubuntu and then never revealed it to any other channel again.
18:38:26 <elliott> It would be completely unreasonable to expect it to be in the logs of #esoteric.
18:38:55 -!- tiffany has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:38:59 <Phantom_Hoover> And it was also clear from 'grep -r' that you made the theme and distributed it here.
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18:57:16 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, Actually I seem to remember pikhq was involved in its creation too.
18:57:21 <Vorpal> I have a vague memory of it
18:57:55 <Vorpal> elliott, also... dinky as a hostname? heh
18:58:05 <Vorpal> are you going for cute or something?
18:58:28 <Vorpal> elliott, is that the Toshiba?
18:58:52 <Vorpal> I don't see any obvious meaning of that one
18:58:56 <elliott> My naming scheme is that I don't have a naming scheme.
18:59:19 <elliott> (I had spent about two days trying to think of a name so I just picked one at random and stuck with it.)
18:59:50 <elliott> Yay, I've almost wrangled Adwaita into something tolerable.
19:03:19 <Vorpal> quintopia, an irc channel named #esoteric
19:03:50 <quintopia> i haven't paid much attention here lately
19:05:14 <Vorpal> elliott, btw don't you like the win95 style? You said it was better than the default Adwaita. But it sounded like it was "oh Adwaita is so bad even the win95 style lack of theme that gtk3 defaults to is better"
19:05:39 <elliott> But I almost have Adwaita looking mostly like Clearloooks.
19:05:46 <Vorpal> elliott, I find it somewhat acceptable though somewhat jarring compared to everything else that I use, which either use gtk2 or qt with gtk2 backedn
19:05:55 <elliott> I ujst have to make the scrollbars smaller and more tolerable and make the menus slightly less awful.
19:06:11 <Vorpal> elliott, cool. Show me the screenshots and upload the modified theme somewhere
19:06:29 <Vorpal> elliott, btw can you keep separate gtk2 and gtk3 themes? Otherwise I will prefer getting the gtk2 one right for now
19:06:36 <Vorpal> so few things use gtk3
19:06:47 <elliott> You just dump shit into ~/.config/gtk-3.0.
19:07:02 <elliott> I should make a derived theme or w/e but I just copied all the Adwaita CSS and started hacking at it because I'm lazy :P
19:07:06 <Vorpal> elliott, it didn't seem to work out with a quick look at the GUI tools for it, but meh
19:07:16 <Vorpal> probably gnome's settings did something stupid
19:07:19 <Vorpal> like store it in gconf
19:07:29 <Vorpal> elliott, wait what, it is css!?
19:07:38 <Vorpal> I thought GTK themes used a custom format
19:07:48 <elliott> GTK 3 themes are an engine, like before, plus CSS.
19:07:57 <elliott> Vorpal: Dude, shut up, the old format was about 90 billion times worse.
19:08:02 <elliott> At least I already _know_ CSS.
19:08:11 <elliott> Same goes for Mutter (= Metacity 3) themes.
19:08:46 <Vorpal> elliott, I'm just saying CSS doesn't make that much sense for formatting stuff like scrollbar handle decoration
19:08:55 <Vorpal> postscript, that is the way to go
19:10:33 <Vorpal> elliott, a turing complete language for drawing windowing system, it makes perfect sense!
19:10:48 <Vorpal> hell, lets do postscript + vector displays
19:10:58 <elliott> Which is great because, in the first few OS X versions, screenshots were actually PDFs by default.
19:11:06 <Vorpal> elliott, you told me before
19:11:12 <elliott> (OK, with embedded bitmaps for window buttons and the like but still :P)
19:11:24 <Vorpal> elliott, I know postscript has been used for display in several systems
19:11:28 <elliott> I think they even "layered" it properly so you could plausibly eliminate a single window from the front.
19:11:40 <elliott> Vorpal: Yes, Quartz is the successor to Display PostScript or whatever from NeXT :P
19:13:35 <Vorpal> elliott, ouch. Just ouch
19:16:59 <elliott> I wonder if I can get a WebKit Inspector on the menus :P
19:17:50 -!- Taneb has joined.
19:18:34 <Taneb> Hey look, I lost connection momentarily
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19:21:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Madoka-Kaname, IT'S LIKE MY RETINAS STARTED HAEMORRHAGING
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19:27:23 <elliott> HOW THE FUCK DO I ADD BORDERS TO THIS MENU
19:36:06 * shachaf has no context whatsoever about whatever's going on in this channel.
19:36:19 <shachaf> I just thought a bit of invalid XML would improve the mood.
19:39:15 <Taneb> I told you we need an esoteric markup language!
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19:51:16 <Vorpal> <Madoka-Kaname> http://i42.tinypic.com/35ask5s.png < Too pink? =p <-- ouch
19:51:35 <Vorpal> well, the colours are kind of matched at least
19:52:16 <Vorpal> Madoka-Kaname, personally I go for a blue-grey theme
19:52:30 <Vorpal> standard clearlooks + blue-grey solid colour desktop bg
19:53:43 <Vorpal> Madoka-Kaname, I'm just not fond of pink
19:54:29 <Vorpal> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ultramarinepigment.jpg <-- like that
19:54:49 <Vorpal> doesn't look too good on this monitor
19:54:53 <Vorpal> looks better in real life
19:55:05 <Vorpal> I don't know, perhaps it is outside of sRGB?
19:56:41 <zzo38> Which is better: (\b -> if b == 0 then Nothing else Just (b, b-1)) or (\x -> guard (x /= 0) >> Just (x, x-1)) ?
19:58:06 <zzo38> Or this: (\x -> (x, x-1) <$ guard (x /= 0))
19:58:12 <shachaf> zzo38: Whichever one you like more.
19:58:42 <zzo38> I happen to like the third one but what is your opinions of it?
19:59:07 <Deewiant> I'd use ($>) if such a thing existed
19:59:20 <elliott> Deewiant: Another one for "combinators"? :-)
19:59:41 <evincar> I think there ought to be a standard function (I'm not creative with names) of type Bool -> a -> Maybe a that returns Nothing if its first argument false, otherwise Just its second argument.
19:59:45 <zzo38> Deewiant: You can write one then, if you want that one
19:59:45 <evincar> If such a thing exists, use that.
19:59:47 <Deewiant> elliott: Should be in base, given that the flipped one exists
20:00:01 <Deewiant> elliott: (Control.Applicative is in base right?)
20:00:03 <elliott> Deewiant: Everything in combinators should probably be in base.
20:00:11 <Deewiant> elliott: Yeah, but this even more so. :-P
20:00:47 <elliott> I wonder if (<*) =/= flip (*>) bothers anyone but fax.
20:00:50 <shachaf> (\b -> listToMaybe [(b,b-1) | b /= 0])
20:01:05 <elliott> shachaf: Monad comprehensions eliminate the listToMaybe part, no?
20:01:24 <elliott> What it sounds like zzo38 needs is safeMinus :: Integer -> Integer -> Maybe Integer
20:01:24 <shachaf> I thought I've give a Haskell solution, though.
20:01:33 <elliott> safeMinus m n = Just (m - n)
20:01:38 <zzo38> It does not have to be only for Maybe, it could be more general to use any MonadPlus (or Alternative, although it seem less useful with Alternative because of the lesser laws)
20:01:40 <elliott> \b -> (b,) <$> safeMinus b
20:01:45 <elliott> Booleans are evil, and whatnot.
20:01:51 <elliott> \b -> (b,) <$> safeMinus b 1
20:01:59 <elliott> ?pl \b -> (,) b <$> safeMinus b 1
20:02:00 <lambdabot> liftM2 (<$>) (,) (flip safeMinus 1)
20:02:12 <monqy> what's so safe about safe minus
20:02:14 <elliott> liftM2 (<$>) (,) $ safeSubtract 1
20:02:20 <elliott> monqy: It's safe if you think Integer = Natural.
20:03:45 <monqy> if n was always 1 it would work as a safepred though
20:04:19 <zzo38> Well, I prefer (\x -> (x, x-1) <$ guard (x /= 0)) rather than using list comprehensions and that stuff, but I suppose you can use whatever
20:05:18 <zzo38> Why does (<*) =/= flip (*>) bother anyone? It is supposed to be different (with some (not all) Applicatives); it useful both ways with parsing, for example.
20:08:57 <zzo38> Things such as Data.ByteString and Data.List and Data.Set have many common functions; why aren't these functions a class?
20:11:43 <elliott> <zzo38> Why does (<*) =/= flip (*>) bother anyone?
20:11:50 <elliott> flipped operator almost always means = fliped version of the non-flipped one
20:12:10 <elliott> (*>) = (>>) also so it's quite surprising that (<*) =/= (<<)
20:12:12 <lambdabot> Text.Html (<<) :: HTML a => (Html -> b) -> a -> b
20:12:12 <lambdabot> Text.XHtml.Frameset (<<) :: HTML a => (Html -> b) -> a -> b
20:12:12 <lambdabot> Text.XHtml.Strict (<<) :: HTML a => (Html -> b) -> a -> b
20:12:24 <oerjan> elliott: i don't think << exists
20:12:52 <shachaf> There's no way it could work like <*
20:12:57 <shachaf> Anyway, <* is actually useful.
20:13:30 <elliott> fax wanted it to be called (*<), which is hideous.
20:16:23 <Vorpal> (because, hey, why not)
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20:37:24 <fizzie> Re keyboard, I don't think there's much more than the keyboard itself, the rebooting, the A20 gate, and the PC speaker thing.
20:37:44 <oerjan> <ais523> (the UK pronunciation is "boy")
20:37:52 <oerjan> i sense great pun opportunities
20:38:06 <ais523> not really, it's actually quite hard to make a pun out of that
20:38:08 <ais523> although probably doable
20:38:13 <fizzie> oerjan: That's called a "pun-portunity".
20:38:16 <monqy> oh buoy here we go
20:38:22 <oerjan> something involving fishing, presumably
20:39:04 <oerjan> fizzie: a port-boyteau?
20:40:06 <oerjan> elliott: a pun on portmanteau
20:41:23 <fizzie> oerjan: Is the fact that you usually find buoys at ports part of the pun too?
20:41:53 <fizzie> Puns upon puns upon puns.
20:42:09 <fizzie> Within, not upon. I guess.
20:42:50 <elliott> fizzie: You know how to get this GTK 3 theming thing to work, right? I'm sure you're an expert.
20:42:51 <Taneb> Why do I deserve this pun ishment?
20:43:38 <monqy> Taneb: you retroactively deserve it for saying that
20:43:39 <fizzie> elliott: It used to be so that you just gtkrc and include and whatever and there was this thing to reload, but I suppose with three it's all so different.
20:43:42 <oerjan> elliott: i was about expecting to be kickbanned myself...
20:44:17 <fizzie> elliott: Oh, is it also HTML5 or 6 or 7 or so?
20:44:30 <elliott> fizzie: No, it's just CSS.
20:44:37 <elliott> I guess they have some internal XML representation to make that work?
20:44:42 <elliott> But yeah, the tags are named after the widget classes.
20:44:56 <fizzie> Sorry, I'm not exactly sobber. And I doubt I could help otherwise either.
20:44:56 <elliott> background-color: @theme_base_color;
20:45:54 <oerjan> finns never sob. they drown the tears in alcohol.
20:46:38 <olsner> they might sob if they ever got sobber though
20:46:52 <fizzie> elliott: Here's the useful. Perl, "use Gtk2; init Gtk2; my $ev = Gtk2::Gdk::Event->new('client-event'); $ev->message_type(Gtk2::Gdk::Atom->intern('_GTK_READ_RCFILES')); $ev->data_format(8);
20:46:59 <fizzie> Gtk2::Gdk::Event->send_clientmessage_toall($ev);
20:47:07 <elliott> fizzie: What... what does that do.
20:47:11 <fizzie> Sorry, I was going to paste all that on one line but didn't manage.
20:47:14 <elliott> Reload themes in all open windows?
20:47:35 <fizzie> You modify your .gtkrc2rc2rc2rc rc manually and then it refresh.
20:47:45 <elliott> You sure aren't very sobber.
20:48:02 <fizzie> Give me a break, it was like one litter of liter of tequila or something.
20:48:20 <fizzie> Also not just any but *Greek*.
20:48:31 <fizzie> It had lambdas and all.
20:48:41 <elliott> fizzie: How are you funnier when drunk nobody is ever funnier when drunk.
20:48:42 <oerjan> so it was functional tequila, i take
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20:49:54 <oerjan> the great keyboard hunter
20:50:29 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm just imagining fizzie staggering all over the channel.
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20:50:49 <fizzie> "Mee-eep", the cat said.
20:51:31 <elliott> This is like when fizzie started talking in lowercase but amazing instead of horrifying.
20:52:15 <Taneb> I'm pretty sure I'm "sobber"
20:52:43 * oerjan passes Taneb some kleenex
20:59:26 <fizzie> elliott: It is the fault of ineiros I think I say.
20:59:34 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> This is like when fizzie started talking in lowercase but amazing instead of horrifying.
20:59:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: He didn't use ANY PUNCTUATION.
21:00:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It wasn't like 2002.
21:00:12 <elliott> That was rational, punctuated, lowercase other-fizzie.
21:01:24 <fizzie> elliott: Not quite yet; actually not even 29 until April next year. But I suppose it's NEAR.
21:01:57 <elliott> fizzie is just exceptionally long-lasting.
21:02:36 <fizzie> It is only musicians that die at 27.
21:02:37 <Taneb> I've caught up on Gunnerkrigg Court
21:03:43 <elliott> Taneb: After starting... this morning?
21:04:04 <elliott> What is it with comics that are short.
21:04:10 <elliott> I do not even comprehend how they exist any more.
21:04:32 <Taneb> No, I just time-travelled multiple times
21:04:39 <Taneb> So I can read while I can read
21:05:03 <Taneb> That indent was important
21:05:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, how did you merge the parallel Tanebs into a single whole which read all of GK, rather than bits of it.
21:05:35 <zzo38> If you need a program to read Haskell file without an extension so it doesn't know .hs or .lhs format, you can make it treated as .lhs if the first character is one of > \ % because none of these character are valid as the first character of a Haskell program anyways
21:05:53 <Taneb> So, I'm a couple of weeks older than I was yesterday
21:06:11 <Taneb> Which means my birthday was today
21:07:00 <zzo38> Actually add < to that list as well
21:07:40 <Taneb> Okay, there is a sticker on my hand
21:07:55 <Taneb> It says "ENERGY STAR"
21:08:33 <Taneb> Could have been worse
21:08:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, no your birthday can't be in two weeks we 16-year-olds need to stick together.
21:09:00 <Taneb> It's on Thursday, young Phantom_Hoover
21:09:22 <Taneb> Although I will be delaying the celebrations until Saturday for personal reasons
21:09:39 <Phantom_Hoover> I'll take over later while elliott covers the retreat.
21:11:06 <monqy> i don't want to be 16 ;_; it's going to be horrible
21:11:15 <monqy> rip monqy "old age"
21:11:33 <Taneb> monqy "old age" rip
21:11:39 <elliott> monqy: I can assure you it's awful
21:13:10 <monqy> but I imagine 16 is worse
21:13:29 <Taneb> 16 is a fourth power
21:14:08 <monqy> 16 is a pretty okay number but there are just so many bad things that could happen
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21:14:41 <monqy> death by learning how to operate motor vehicles
21:15:22 <monqy> people start learning at 15 I think?? and can get a lisens at 16 / I just hope nobody notices me
21:15:24 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm planning to go insane when I'm allowed to get a driving licence.
21:16:02 <Taneb> It's going to go wrong, PH
21:16:18 <elliott> monqy: Why would you even bother.
21:16:18 <zzo38> Is Chinese New Year when the Sun and Moon are near 315 degrees? I thought I read somewhere but am not entirely sure how it works.
21:16:20 <Phantom_Hoover> From school information on road safety I understand that driving in your teens basically consists of endless melodrama and tragedy.
21:16:28 <monqy> elliott: my hope is that I don't have to bother
21:16:28 <Taneb> You're going to have all the materials you need to make a llama bone bracelet studded with bismuthite
21:16:34 <monqy> elliott: but my fear is that i'll have to bother
21:16:37 <elliott> monqy: Move somewhere with a rail system that actually exists.
21:16:37 <Taneb> It will menace with spikes of maple
21:16:42 <elliott> (Amtrak is actually made of pixie dust.)
21:16:47 <zzo38> I have always refused the driving license
21:16:51 <monqy> rail system sounds nice
21:17:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, no, if I was in a strange mood I would leave the bismuthinite alone.
21:17:38 <monqy> anything but me driving cars
21:17:45 <Phantom_Hoover> (Note: I am probably going to get lynched if anyone else from Edinburgh reads that.)
21:17:47 <Taneb> monqy, go to Sheffield!
21:18:04 <elliott> Sheffield is bad I can confirm.
21:18:16 <Phantom_Hoover> monqy, don't listen to his lies nobody goes to Sheffield voluntarily.
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21:18:27 <Taneb> You can do that with Melbourne /or/ Beamish!
21:18:29 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yes Beamish is where it is at.
21:18:32 <monqy> I don't know what any of these places are :(
21:18:40 <elliott> monqy has never heard of Melbourne.
21:18:42 <monqy> are they important
21:18:46 <elliott> (You have heard of Melbourne right.)
21:18:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Come to Edinburgh we have a bus company with a really detailed WP article.
21:18:48 <monqy> I've heard of melbourne by name
21:18:55 <elliott> It is a place in Scotland.
21:18:55 <monqy> I don't know what it is though
21:18:58 <Taneb> It was almost called Batmania
21:19:02 <monqy> is it a good place
21:19:06 <Phantom_Hoover> monqy, do you, and I cannot overstress the importance of this question, know where Scotland is?
21:19:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Tell monqy about the delights of Melbourne, Scotland.
21:19:14 <monqy> scotland's over there
21:19:22 <monqy> I'm miserable at geography
21:19:23 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oh, right.
21:19:27 <monqy> and I hate geography
21:19:33 <Taneb> Maybe it's Inverness...?
21:19:42 <monqy> I don't even know how usa geography works
21:19:57 <elliott> Taneb: You used to live in Melbourne, Scotland, right?
21:20:19 <elliott> (In the middle of London.)
21:20:30 <elliott> London is of course part of Canada.
21:21:02 <elliott> Daily reminder that British place names are so good.
21:21:35 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: No, that's Mexico.
21:22:09 <elliott> (I refer, of course, to the supermarket.)
21:22:15 <Taneb> Oh dear god if all of civilization is lost and future archeologists find this channel's logs they are going to be so educated
21:22:29 <elliott> We are doing a public service.
21:22:46 <Phantom_Hoover> The USA also has 5 Edinburghs and two other places with misspellings of it.
21:22:50 <Taneb> Iceland is, of course, near Argos
21:22:51 <elliott> Archaeologists: This is in fact a mating ritual.
21:23:06 <elliott> Taneb: Yes, the famous Aztec temple.
21:23:16 <zzo38> Do you like to make up lies that confuse future archaeologists?
21:23:30 <elliott> Archaeologists: zzo38 is a robot. Do not trust his lies.
21:23:42 <Taneb> We wouldn't bring ourselves down to the level of /cereal manufacturers/
21:23:51 <zzo38> Actually I asked a question.
21:23:53 <Taneb> We are a religious superclass
21:24:09 <zzo38> I am not trying to accuse anyone.
21:24:26 <zzo38> I am just saying something that I think I once saw some idea somewhere, I forget, was it on television?
21:24:40 <Phantom_Hoover> `addquote <zzo38> I am just saying something that I think I once saw some idea somewhere, I forget, was it on television?
21:24:43 <HackEgo> 702) <zzo38> I am just saying something that I think I once saw some idea somewhere, I forget, was it on television?
21:24:59 <HackEgo> 701) <Phantom_Hoover> I'd insult you behind your back, but I don't care which side of your back I insult you on.
21:25:11 <HackEgo> 450) <Phantom_Hoover> I go to clean up the shrapnel from a teabag and you're discussing the definition of god out of nowhere.
21:25:12 <Taneb> Television is of course, otherwise known has Mt Olympus
21:25:13 <HackEgo> 665) <fizzie> Spacegoat is the network-operations-optimized-for-latency-of-minutes-or-hours-due-to-light-speed-limits variant of scapegoat, to be used when you need to check out some code from the Mars colony. <fizzie> (I'm pretty sure we'll have established a Mars colony by the time scapegoat rolls out.)
21:25:24 <Phantom_Hoover> monqy, elliott is actually a sock I made to add quotes of me.
21:25:29 <HackEgo> 313) <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, incidentally, I started my explorations again after getting bored of the Himalayas.
21:25:29 <HackEgo> 290) <elliott> lol @ closed character set standard <elliott> "What does this codepoint represent?" "Nobody knows."
21:25:29 <HackEgo> 16) <fizzie after embedding some of his department research into fungot> Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it.
21:25:40 <elliott> But those are all good. :/
21:25:50 <monqy> or is he a robot sock
21:26:01 <elliott> I am actually a wooden robot sock given life.
21:26:02 <Phantom_Hoover> 665 is perhaps a bit wordy, but not deleteworthily so.
21:26:19 <HackEgo> 309) <fungot> elliott: there go my minutes of research!!
21:26:20 <HackEgo> 252) <elliott> in retrospect that wasn't even necessary, as communal readings of the Funge-98 spec do just a good job of getting rid of trolls
21:26:28 <HackEgo> 69) <fungot> i am sad ( of course by analogy) :) smileys)
21:26:31 <HackEgo> 187) <Vorpal> ais523, what is "MS Publisher"? <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, you don't want to know. <ais523> Vorpal: be glad that you don't know the answer <alise> Vorpal: "horrible"
21:26:31 <HackEgo> 462) * Sgeo mutters about broken toilets <Sgeo> #toilet is useless <monqy> is #toilet even a thing <Sgeo> I'm looking for help with toilets
21:26:53 <elliott> 187 and 252 are both not that good, but 187 is amusing in its simultaneejiaetity.
21:27:20 <HackEgo> 140) <Quas_NaArt> Because you're a Mac user. <lacota> I am! and proud of it to <lacota> My mouse has *no* buttons.
21:27:27 <HackEgo> 228) <elliott> oerjan: What, can girls aim their penises better?
21:27:36 <HackEgo> 544) <Phantom_Hoover> Riots in Glasgow would probably be reported as a sudden drop in crime.
21:27:36 <HackEgo> 147) <fungot> ais523: killer bunnies can be harmed by domesticated canines only.
21:27:36 <HackEgo> 600) <elliott> well, oerjan has a lot of opinions on this, so I'll hand it over to him
21:27:45 <elliott> Although it's sort of half amusing, it is practically my job to delete Sine quotes.
21:27:51 <olsner> I wonder what lead up to 228
21:28:03 <elliott> Ehh, none of them are that bad.
21:28:05 <elliott> Let's get something objectively bad.
21:28:08 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quot: not found
21:28:15 <HackEgo> 33) <augur> augur: pretty true.
21:28:19 <HackEgo> 333) <zzo38> elliott: I doubt water memory can last for even one second in a gravitational field (or even outside of a gravitational field), but other people think they can make water memory with telephones.
21:28:29 <HackEgo> 404) <fizzie> You make a fist, shake it at the sky, and shout "why, GNU, why?!" -- that is the standard reportig practice.
21:28:29 <HackEgo> 642) <oerjan> yes 5 is very infixr
21:28:29 <HackEgo> 530) <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds?
21:31:54 <oerjan> <zzo38> Do you like to make up lies that confuse future archaeologists? <-- hey i just personally checked that london _is_ part of canada.
21:32:12 <zzo38> Yes there is a place called London in Canada.
21:32:28 <Taneb> It's in Ontario, I believe
21:33:06 <Taneb> One webcomic I read for a bit then stopped and a character called something like "The Werewolf of London, Ontario"
21:42:14 <elliott> oerjan: Did you ever actually react to IWC.
21:43:33 <oerjan> you mean post to the forum? no.
21:44:07 <elliott> oerjan: Yes that's totally what I said.
21:44:46 <oerjan> yes. yes i did. in a private message to you, as i recall.
21:45:23 <elliott> huh. i don't actually remember that. but then i was really tired
21:45:33 <elliott> Unless you mean the three hours of continual sobbing.
21:45:43 <oerjan> it did not actually mention the word "iwc".
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21:46:07 <oerjan> ah yes, must have been that.
21:52:46 <zzo38> Do you know how to play E-Card? I will tell you. One player get four water energy cards and one fire energy card, the other player get four water energy cards and one leaf energy card. Both players put one card face-down. And then reveal them. If both are water energy card then you put it aside and play another face-down card.
21:53:48 <zzo38> Otherwise you count whoever gets one point according to the card played, and then you switch the hand you start with the cards that your opponent started with before. Play several rounds a predetermined even number, and then count whoever has more points wins.
21:57:50 -!- kmc_ has changed nick to kmc.
21:59:44 <zzo38> I noticed that the DVI units specification used in TeX is not in lowest terms; I tried changing the numbers in the DVI file to lowest terms and it still works.
22:00:28 <zzo38> In lowest terms it would be 396875/7400448
22:04:57 <zzo38> data PageObject = Special ByteString | Box [(Coordinates, PageObject)] | Character Font Word32 | Text Font String | Rule Int32 Int32 deriving (Eq, Show);
22:05:40 <zzo38> But I think the constructor for Text should not be String, because it could include kerns and the characters beyond 0x10FFFF
22:07:38 <zzo38> But it could include kerns and it can include characters beyond 255
22:08:12 <elliott> what is the element type, then?
22:09:11 <zzo38> I don't know. Maybe it should be [Either Int32 Word32] which would be sufficient, but I don't know if there is better way
22:11:04 <zzo38> What do you think about this?
22:21:11 <Vorpal> Left for signed and Right for unsigned? Seems slightly awkward to me. I never really liked Either in haskell. It feels to me that it doesn't really document the purpose of how it is used in the name and the type
22:21:38 <Vorpal> compare to Maybe, which is good. Why not just use Either Nothing YourType
22:22:01 <elliott> Either is good for error reporting.
22:22:09 <Vorpal> rather Either () YourType
22:22:53 <Vorpal> elliott, or Either YourType Void I guess
22:23:14 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `Void'
22:23:29 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class `Void'
22:23:59 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway, my point was not the exact translation between Either and Maybe, but that it feels awkward
22:24:15 <zzo38> No, Left for kerns and Right for characters.
22:24:44 <Vorpal> it is like those C system call APIs you run into sometimes: foo(int request, void *arg1, void *arg2, void *arg3)
22:25:02 <Vorpal> I think ioctl is actually varargs
22:25:10 <elliott> Either is useful for error reporting.
22:25:26 <Vorpal> elliott, as in Either Result ErrorDesc or such?
22:25:29 <elliott> parse :: String -> Either ParseError AST
22:25:30 <zzo38> Either () is like Maybe it is also a monad, doing some similar things.
22:25:51 <zzo38> But, Maybe can also be used for successor type
22:26:02 <elliott> try :: (Exception e) => IO a -> IO (Either e a)
22:27:30 <Vorpal> (oooh TB is doing a live stream first impression of "Cthulhu saves the world", I heard good thing about that game. Just in case anyone is interested. Find a link from yogscast to his channel)
22:27:33 <zzo38> The reason I have Left for signed and Right for unsigned is that the kerns can be negative or positive, but characters are only positive number
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22:33:40 <zzo38> Some people complained that I have a "SUMMON CTHULHU" command on IRC, but now you are going to complain about a different feature of my IRC, isn't it?
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22:49:41 <elliott> Taneb! It's so good to have you h- what am I saying.
22:50:26 <Taneb> In 4 days I will begin the preparations of 17-ness for you and Phantom_Hoover
22:50:52 <elliott> No you... can't become 17.
22:51:32 <Taneb> Just because you have a birthday either very late or very early in the academic year
22:53:57 <zzo38> To prevent it they would have to be dead. However, I see no reason to disallow becoming 17 years
22:54:33 <oerjan> i noticed someone else already did a prime pun
22:55:10 <Taneb> I did a different one
22:55:57 <Taneb> Semiprime and fourth power
22:56:13 <Taneb> ...Is 9 a semiprime?
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23:00:04 <Taneb|Hovercraft> I think the Arecibo message will just become some other civilization's Wow! signal
23:02:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
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23:04:50 <elliott> Taneb|Hovercraft: Arecibo is a bit more involved than Wow!... but also never going to get anywhere.
23:07:06 <Taneb|Hovercraft> It would be funny if the secret to FTL travel was accidently contained in the alternative layout of the Arecibo signal
23:09:37 <coppro> why aren't we broadcasting a repeating cycle of prime numbers yet?
23:11:43 <elliott> all our transmissions are just for show
23:13:39 <coppro> elliott: I said why not.
23:13:49 <elliott> coppro: uses money, power, equipment, ...
23:14:02 <coppro> elliott: has more benefit than SETI
23:14:12 <elliott> it has exactly the same (none)
23:14:28 <Taneb|Hovercraft> Unless the aliens are religious types who view prime numbers as evil
23:14:36 <elliott> there are a lot of stupid things, doesn't mean we should do more of them
23:14:51 <coppro> also will provide a beacon for earth for when we invent faster-than-light travel and outpace our ability to communicate
23:15:20 * coppro goes back under his bridge
23:15:22 <elliott> let's just send out prime numbers for a few billion years in anticipation for that :P
23:16:33 <elliott> I don't think I'm going to switch over to DST next year.
23:16:39 <elliott> Everyone else will just do things an hour off.
23:16:48 <elliott> Better than clocks changing.
23:16:53 <monqy> I wish I could make that choice
23:17:16 * oerjan hits Taneb|Hovercraft with the sledge-o-matic ======[]
23:17:26 <elliott> monqy: You can, as long as you're OK with other clocks being wrong.
23:17:40 <monqy> but other clocks are important :(
23:17:49 <oerjan> what part of _faster_ than light don't you understand
23:18:09 <elliott> oerjan: I was considering commenting on that, but thought that perhaps my grasp of physics was lacking :)
23:18:36 <elliott> Reddit can enable "occupy" movements to permanently shift power from corporations to people and move the world into a new era. Here's how: (self.politics)
23:18:36 <elliott> OK, my hate of /r/politics has turned into a love of its new comedic format.
23:18:48 <elliott> Taneb|Hovercraft: Why not 3 seconds?
23:20:37 <oerjan> just open a permanent wormhole with exotic spices.
23:22:53 <oerjan> we'll just use homeopathic methods to thin them out while increasing their efficiency
23:23:49 <coppro> I haven't been able to get decent melange in ages
23:24:18 <oerjan> Taneb|Hovercraft: well i hear dmm already fixed that for us
23:25:54 <elliott> <coppro> 'new comedic format'?
23:25:57 <elliott> observe: <elliott> Reddit can enable "occupy" movements to permanently shift power from corporations to people and move the world into a new era. Here's how: (self.politics)
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23:29:19 <zzo38> What is the most number of parameters you have used for a ... <$> ... <*> ... <*> ... <*> ... function?
23:30:28 <zzo38> Like how liftA2 has two (like f <$> x <*> y) and liftA3 with three, what is the most you have used?
23:31:42 <zzo38> I started writing the TFM reading program and I realized I used eleven.
23:32:37 <oerjan> ...that requires the function before <$> to take that many parameters, as well...
23:33:12 <zzo38> Yes it does. It takes thirteen parameters (two of which are specified before <$> to make eleven more required)
23:33:48 <oerjan> sounds like a candidate for splitting things up...
23:34:35 <zzo38> The way the TFM format is specified it can use all of them at once.
23:35:30 <elliott> http://thestallmandialogues.com/
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23:38:46 <elliott> these are actually physically painful to read
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23:41:35 <oerjan> i see. required reading.
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23:54:10 <elliott> so oerjan i hear that irregular webcomic is goign to start updating a regular rate... of...
23:54:12 <zzo38> Is string theory: science, philosophy, or mathematics?
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23:57:54 <Vorpal> elliott, don't you think it is sad?
23:58:22 <Ngevd> Crap, I'm back to Ngevd
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