00:00:09 <shachaf> "i was getting "withdrawal""
00:00:19 <monqy> i saw you saying it earlier today!!! or maybe late last night depending on how you look at it
00:00:30 <monqy> a few hours "a long time"
00:00:48 <Bike> Sgeo_: you realize that makes you better for hiring than anything else.
00:01:11 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:01:14 <Sgeo_> All PHP familiarity I have comes from having taken one class...
00:01:23 <Sgeo_> Well, I guess not _all_
00:01:32 <Sgeo_> Also used it in Senior Project a little
00:01:33 <olsner> you have had classes in php? :S
00:01:35 <Sgeo_> Actually, very little
00:01:49 <Sgeo_> Most of the coding I did was Javascript
00:02:05 <olsner> (are you the one studying at the farming university?)
00:02:53 <Sgeo_> It's at a place called Farmingdale.
00:03:05 <Sgeo_> The university used to be about farming but now it isn't.
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00:12:25 <Fiora> huh. pouring a liquid into a light cup on a low-friction counter causes the liquid to slosh back and forth, which causes the cup to jump back and forth along the counter for a few seconds until the liquid settles
00:13:05 <Sgeo_> I used to be amused by the glowing door when I hover over it in MS Allegiance
00:13:10 <Sgeo_> I may be more easily amused than Fiora
00:13:40 <olsner> the moving cup can be amusing for a short time (liquids should have no power over solid matter!), but will not amuse for long
00:14:23 <elliott> Fiora: how low-friction are we talking here
00:15:31 <Fiora> um. it's just a plastic counter finish, I'm not sure
00:15:42 <Fiora> but the kind of thing you can slide your hand along and it feels really super smooth
00:16:43 <Bike> http://vixra.org/ hey, this site is still around!
00:16:53 <olsner> i.e. it's not quite as low-friction as pitch is viscous
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00:18:35 <elliott> Bike: this is the quack arxiv right
00:19:08 <Bike> «he Fifth Function of University: “Neutrosophic e-Function” of Communication-Collaboration-Integration of University in the Information Age»
00:20:17 <shachaf> I thought arxiv was the quack arxiv.
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00:22:31 <shachaf> "Abstract: Young stars like the Sun are hollow. An illustration is provided."
00:22:41 <shachaf> http://vixra.org/pdf/1301.0109v1.pdf
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00:37:42 <Sgeo_> kmc, quick question: Is whitespace outside of commands relevant at all?
00:49:02 <olsner> depends on the language (HTH)
00:51:56 <kmc> Sgeo_: in latex?
00:52:55 * Sgeo_ was almost about to wonder if there's a Try Ruby until I remembered that's where the trend came from
00:52:55 <kmc> well having whitespace is different from not having any
00:53:15 <kmc> and two newlines in a row (i.e. blank line) starts a new paragraph
00:53:38 <kmc> and some environments can redefine things so that whitespace matters
00:53:40 <kmc> e.g. verbatim
00:53:48 <kmc> but mostly whitespace does not matter
00:54:27 <shachaf> see? whitespace is not so hard
00:54:32 <shachaf> i'm a big fan of it in fact
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01:02:42 <kmc> Fiora: yeah, coupled oscillators are fun
01:03:40 <kmc> though maybe this is not one
01:04:46 <kmc> what if you attach the cup to some springs too
01:21:36 <Sgeo_> My resume is already running 2 pages
01:22:46 <Jafet> Fiora: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWToUATLGzs
01:27:12 <Bike> jafet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCp7bL-AWvw#t=1m35s
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01:33:04 <Jafet> Poem symphonique for 100 metronomes and a fancy sweeping machine thing
01:33:51 <Sgeo_> I can't make it fin
01:34:39 <Sgeo_> Maybe I should comment out the extra stuff?
01:35:45 <Bike> is it ever not?
01:36:43 <Jafet> Yo momma so big, she needed two exponential substitutions
01:38:02 <kmc> yeah those metronomes are the best
01:39:01 <Sgeo_> How do I make this fit on one page https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/resume-censored.pdf?w=AADIvu8kdZ7VAVENqHkmKRekbKWh07MscyyuspAin5TmhQ
01:41:15 <kmc> do i need to sign into dropbox
01:41:20 <Sgeo_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16240872/resume-censored.pdf
01:41:30 <Sgeo_> No, I just copied the wrong link
01:42:09 <kmc> make e.g. "PSOX \n Developer: 2007-2008" into one line
01:42:39 <kmc> also your Skills section is about 5 lines and could shrink to two
01:42:47 <kmc> with fewer headings and such
01:42:56 <kmc> people know that Linux is an Operating System and not a Computer Language
01:43:43 <kmc> and you could condense the three bulletpoints under Education onto one line
01:48:53 <Bike> Phantom__Hoover: "experience using off-line editing systems in for rapid debugging in real-world applications"
01:50:05 <Sgeo_> Does successfully guessing that \\ is related to newline count for anything/
01:50:51 <Bike> yes, it makes you a "pattern-oriented problem solver"
01:51:07 <Bike> also why did you escape the backslash
01:51:19 <Sgeo_> Because that was in the template
01:56:23 <Sgeo_> I got it to all fit!
01:56:59 <kmc> patern-oriented object programming system or POOPS
01:57:06 <kmc> you're welcome Sgeo_
02:00:09 <Sgeo_> I also shrunk the font
02:04:07 <zzo38> I have read that Spartan FPGA has multiple clock signals, and that Amber runs as 40 MHz, and that in Virtex it runs twice as fast (but it also says they have changed it so now only Spartan is supported). Can it be made other things that can work faster than these speeds? What is the maximum speed?
02:05:34 <zzo38> What changes need to be made to run on different FPGA?
02:10:15 <Sgeo_> Crud how do I unapply for a job on LinkedIn
02:10:31 <Sgeo_> I just noticed that the one I sent a resume to is in San Francisco
02:10:43 <Bike> what's wrong with sanfran, eh
02:11:00 <Bike> it's an adventure!
02:12:17 <Sgeo_> It seems awesome though.
02:12:18 <Sgeo_> "Exceptional coding skills. Mastery of several major programming languages (i.e., Ruby, Python, Java, etc) and experience with different programming paradigms. Exposure to functional programming is a must, as is understanding when it's not the right answer to a problem"
02:12:33 <Sgeo_> "Ability to rapidly learn new systems and languages as needed. You know what is meant by "C-like" and "ML-like" languages."
02:13:02 <Bike> turns out to be implementing standard ML in php
02:13:36 <kmc> SF is a pretty cool city
02:13:47 <Sgeo_> I don't think I have the experience they want
02:14:16 <kmc> Sgeo_: you should still interview
02:14:20 <kmc> free trip to SF
02:14:30 <kmc> practice interviewing
02:14:45 <Sgeo_> I should learn how to write cover letters
02:14:51 <Sgeo_> I didn't write a cover letter for this one
02:14:54 <Sgeo_> Just attached resume and sent
02:16:24 <kmc> i don't know any secret to it
02:16:41 <kmc> just say why you're interested in the job and highlight any particularly relevant skills or experience
02:16:59 <Sgeo_> A bit too late to do that for this one though :(
02:17:11 <kmc> remember the purpose of resume / cover letter is not to get you the job, just to get you the interview
02:17:24 <kmc> or usually just a phone call
02:18:11 <copumpkin> or a giant check to disappear and never be heard from again
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02:26:58 <kmc> http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2011/10/27/whats-the-easiest-way-to-get-a-novelty-check-5x2-or-similar-across-the-country/
02:32:19 <copumpkin> that's some useful knowledge right there
02:34:14 <copumpkin> http://www.reddit.com/r/Blacksmith/comments/16t49n/damascus_steel_theories/c7z6ih9
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02:41:23 <Bike> Sgeo_: you're dooooomed
02:41:38 <Sgeo_> Probably lack of cover letter was worse
02:52:01 <Bike> http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/zebdeming/Bladesmithing/IMAG0110.jpg <-- well, that puts thiings in perspective
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03:03:43 <hagb4rd> brothers and sisters of the pale forest
03:04:07 <hagb4rd> who among you will run with the hunt?
03:04:20 <Bike> is this a sex thing?
03:05:07 <hagb4rd> yes dionysos and his legion
03:06:24 <hagb4rd> now night arrives with its purpuour legions
03:06:54 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cause: not found
03:07:08 <hagb4rd> i`ll enter the town of my birth
03:09:12 <hagb4rd> it's good to have you here..
03:15:44 <Jafet> It's a fungot thing
03:15:45 <fungot> Jafet: so i never found the effort to configure? newbie here!! put this on!! i'm walking in my sleep, but nothing terrible either.
03:23:38 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
03:23:47 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
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03:26:48 <fungot> Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages)
03:27:00 <Jafet> fungot: is this a sex thing
03:27:01 <fungot> Jafet: isn't fnord " fnord style= " color: fnord 16:12, 22 may 2008 ( utc
03:27:51 <Sgeo_> Wait, which 1/1256th?
03:28:05 <Sgeo_> I cannot type the fraction
03:28:10 <Sgeo_> I had to backspace
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03:28:43 <Bike> The sexiest 1/256th imo
03:42:29 <zzo38> I like some of the GNU extensions in C and some of the C99 stuff; however I have my own idea also for some extensions, such as additional preprocessor commands, struct/union types with parameters and if blocks and static members, operator overloading (but different and more limited than C++), etc
03:43:10 <zzo38> Such as, you can overload unary ! but not binary && and || and the result type of ! must be int and the value should be 0 or 1 only
03:43:43 <zzo38> Comparison overloading is == and < only, both sides being the same type, and the result being boolean (like above)
03:46:11 <zzo38> You also cannot overload [] and assignment operators and . and -> and , but can overload unary * for both reading and writing.
03:46:24 <zzo38> (But the type has to be the same reading and writing)
03:49:15 <Sgeo_> It occurs to me that using a generator could be almost as simple as list comprehensions
03:49:46 <zzo38> Overloading [] is not used, because instead if you write x[y] it acts same like *(x+y)
03:52:28 <zzo38> For example you might write struct abc(a,const int b) { a data[b]; if(__builtin_types_compatible_p(a,char)) { int x; int y; int z; } };
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03:54:23 <zzo38> Still, mine is not C2, it is mostly compatible with C instead so it can be used as extension, it can be called "High-C", and does not have all of the high-level features, only a few but no extra runtime stuff.
03:54:34 <Bike> is that supposed to be like a generic?
03:55:39 <zzo38> Is what supposed to be like a generic? What is a generic?
03:55:57 <Bike> Your code fragment. Like generics in C++.
03:58:05 <zzo38> Well, yes it is kind of
03:58:14 <zzo38> Not exactly the same, but there are some similarities
03:58:38 <Bike> I mean, just in that you have a type variable (and an integer parameter for that matter).
03:59:01 <Bike> Not sure I entirely understand how the conditional works. I assume that's compile time, but it's pretty different from usual declarations...
03:59:19 <zzo38> Yes, compile time conditional
04:01:26 <Bike> I mean, the having declarations in a block like that.
04:03:20 <zzo38> Yes it is different from plain C
04:03:33 <zzo38> __builtin_types_compatible_p is also different from plain C, it is a GNU extension.
04:03:44 <Bike> Right. The syntax just seems a bit confusing to me.
04:07:35 <zzo38> But it is based on C89 with some GNU extensions and some C99 stuff, rather than being based on C99 or C11.
04:08:24 <zzo38> Some things may be similar to C++ but will have a different meaning in C, such as a structure with no members is size zero in C (instead of one which it is in C++, I think?).
04:09:09 <shachaf> jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj
04:09:52 <zzo38> (If all the members are static, then it is also zero size.)
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04:22:25 <Sgeo_> And then apply the suggestions that my friend gave me about my resume
04:22:53 <zzo38> Some C99 stuff is also available as GNU extensions. Some C99 stuff (including some which is GNU extensions), I think shouldn't belong so they should be removed (although a compiler still might support it as extensions).
04:27:13 <Bike> shachaf: bault?
04:27:33 <lambdabot> cmccann says: some people blame themselves, some people blame the language, but the people who really know what they're doing blame shachaf.
04:38:50 <zzo38> And then it should allow, when using typeof and sizeof, you can use . and a member name after the type to mean the type of that member, and using * prefix for type pointed to. Should also be allow, static members of struct/union can be accessed by the value, or by using the type and . and the member.
04:40:14 <zzo38> Even with existing GNU extension you can do like: typedef struct kk { int a[0]; } kk; and then later if you have a variable kk k; to make typeof(*k.a) I think you can then make something like that if it is useful to you. It can be done with sizeof too
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05:02:06 <zzo38> How would you think about these kind of extensions?
05:23:16 <kmc> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/16/las_vegas_phones/ "Phones lost and stolen in Las Vegas are mistakenly telling their owners they're at the house of one Wayne Dobson, who's getting pretty angry at the late night demands and visits from the police."
05:24:06 <Bike> "victims refused to believe the technology could be faulty"
05:24:19 <kmc> who ever heard of computers having bugs
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06:38:15 <Jafet> They're not computers, kmc, they're phones
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06:39:23 <kmc> 'Kramer buys the wrong kind of bath salts, has a bad bath, tries to return them. Elaine's coworkers mock her for using her phone as a phone.'
06:40:22 <Bike> "I've been Google bombed, Jerry! My Google… it's ruined."
06:46:28 <kmc> i don't know if there is any actual show taking a seinfeld approach to human interaction in the internet age
06:46:39 <kmc> seems like fertile territory
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07:40:42 <augur> http://decovo.wordpress.com
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09:19:45 <elliott> oerjan: please name my language
09:20:41 <oerjan> short for "elliott's really interesting calculus"
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09:24:45 <Jafet> Expressive language for international cultures
09:30:46 <elliott> oerjan: okay. now name it again
09:32:13 <oerjan> flaco, for formal language administrating categorical objects
09:32:59 <oerjan> or perhaps flawless computing
09:35:32 <oerjan> moss, for massively objective security system
09:37:38 <oerjan> functional immutable nominal dependent urelement system
09:38:49 <oerjan> theorem expressions seamlessly computing objects
09:40:15 <zzo38> elliott: What is your language?
09:40:58 <elliott> oerjan: how about something that acronyms to oerjan
09:42:19 <oerjan> ominously effective random jostling approximating numbers
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12:39:12 <olsner> elliott: have you made a language?
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14:06:39 <Sgeo_> "Interviews are occurring early next week, so if are a Python/JavaScript Engineer apply now!"
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14:47:12 <mroman> I just recently divided Python by JavaScript.
14:55:53 <Sgeo_> I fell asleep instead of eating dinner
14:56:07 <Sgeo_> Had computer on mute so never heard alarm that was supposed to wake me after 30 minute nap
14:56:11 <Sgeo_> So now making dinner for breakfast
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15:03:37 <Sgeo_> http://hypirion.com/swearjure (yes shachaf, this is Clojure related)
15:10:14 <mroman> c00kiemon5ter: Well, it raised a GPF.
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15:21:53 <mroman> Well, never be lazy documenting stuff.
15:22:34 <mroman> "RA: Defined as sapd2.0./av!!". I have no idea what I did there.
15:32:30 <elliott> Collapsing kinds and types Blurring the distinction between
15:32:30 <elliott> types and kinds is convenient, but is it wise? It is well known that
15:32:30 <elliott> type systems that include the Γ ty
15:32:32 <elliott> logics [Girard 1972]. Does that cause trouble here?
15:32:35 <elliott> The answer is no because FC, even without these extensions,
15:33:19 <elliott> "Some fear that the world may end if we do this. However, this is okay, because the world has already ended."
15:42:46 <elliott> Hmm, I'm going to regret this file being called ~/tmp/thesis.pdf.
15:42:55 <elliott> Maybe I should move it to ~/file so it's more descriptive.
15:44:37 <Sgeo_> So ell?iott?s aren't just involved with Haskell. There's an Eliot involved with Smalltalk
15:45:57 <olsner> you know, they're all the same elliott
15:47:43 <fizzie> fungot: Has the world already ended?
15:47:44 <fungot> fizzie: which have come from this mor region. user:scott moorescott moore 13:58, 13 oct 2004 ( utc))
15:48:18 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
15:48:27 <fungot> c00kiemon5ter: the wiki page
15:49:11 <olsner> fizzie: how old are those irc logs?
15:49:18 <fizzie> He's up the Wiki page.
15:50:54 <fizzie> File timestamps say "Aug 28 2008" but I don't know if that's true.
15:51:09 <fungot> c00kiemon5ter: it took me a sec to actually read
15:51:26 <fizzie> fungot: But what was the answer?
15:51:27 <fungot> fizzie: japan has had a plt bias, but my second thought ( after " that sucks") was that one page further, and also
15:53:01 <olsner> fungot: how old are you?
15:53:01 <fungot> olsner: does tcl have live objects?'
15:54:43 <fizzie> fungot: That some kind of an euphemism?
15:54:44 <fungot> fizzie: oklopol is really smiling! what's the target audience for that? or do you have
15:55:00 <elliott> Wow, rare for it to give a name of an #esotericer.
15:55:31 <olsner> everyone should be able to appreciate the smiling oklo
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16:46:58 <elliott> @tell oerjan could you tell me about the thing where you can infer rank-2 types. also can you remind me to keep reading thesis.pdf? you're the best
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17:22:25 <lambdabot> elliott said 35m 27s ago: could you tell me about the thing where you can infer rank-2 types. also can you remind me to keep reading thesis.pdf? you're the best
17:25:33 <oerjan> i have vaguely heard about the first thing. please keep reading the latter.
17:27:00 * oerjan wonders if it isn't against the spirit of comments on a postcard to link to tvtropes pages that actually exist
17:28:37 <oerjan> oh wait it doesn't. never mind.
17:28:53 <oerjan> i think it may have existed at one time.
17:33:27 <oerjan> <fizzie> File timestamps say "Aug 28 2008" but I don't know if that's true. <-- time for a regeneration?
17:37:41 <Vorpal> hm, I wonder what -march=native will do when using distcc... Probably bad stuff
17:48:31 <fizzie> oerjan: But then it wouldn't be the same again. :/
17:49:09 <oerjan> are you saying the channel has deteriorated.
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17:52:46 <olsner> Vorpal: doesn't distcc already require every system in the cluster to be exactly the same?
17:52:58 <Taneb> Man, I really suck at everything
17:52:59 <lambdabot> Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
17:56:19 <Taneb> Also, seeing how much computer trouble I've had recently I shouldn't have tried to upgrade to Ubuntu 12.10
17:57:05 <Taneb> It now doesn't boot
17:57:09 <Deewiant> "distcc does not require all machines to share a filesystem, have synchronized clocks, or to have the same libraries or header files installed. They can even have different processors or operating systems, if cross-compilers are installed."
17:57:18 <Vorpal> oerjan, I'm using a cross compiler on one machine atm for example
17:57:36 <oerjan> I DON'T CARE NANANANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU
17:57:54 <Vorpal> I just offload work from my Raspberry Pi using distcc
17:58:04 <Vorpal> so I set up distcc on my desktop to use a cross compiler
17:58:55 <Vorpal> Deewiant, the issue is o<tab> and "most recent to speak matches first"
17:59:16 <olsner> tip: read your message before pressing enter
17:59:24 <Deewiant> No, the issue is that people blindly tab-complete without reading the result
17:59:58 <Vorpal> hey, it works most of the time
18:07:01 <zzo38> There is program "dragonegg" to use LLVM with the GCC parsers, to compile Ada and Fortran and so on. But what if you want to use LLVM parsers and optimizers and have it compile using GCC, such as to support many targets which LLVM does not support (such as MMIX, ARMv2, etc)?
18:11:11 <olsner> you might be able to get something working by having llvm output C code
18:12:57 <zzo38> They refused to add supports for those targets to LLVM, that is why I need GCC.
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18:31:02 <oerjan> Taneb: my underload to fueue conversion worked on all the programs i tested :) (after upping the C interpreter's buffer size to 10000.)
18:33:00 <oerjan> morse-thue (slightly changed to avoid lone S) and kolakoski in particular.
18:33:17 <oerjan> oh and the decimal fibonacci.
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18:48:47 <Taneb> I wonder how my interpreter will handle it...
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20:32:12 <fizzie> That's somewhat weird; snes9x has lost gamepad support. It works in the configuration dialogs, but not in the actual thing.
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21:03:05 <kmc> https://sites.google.com/site/sophieinnorthkorea/
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21:07:27 <copumpkin> fun stuff, but the page is structured kinda weirdly
21:08:57 * Sgeo_ wonders if Self is better than Smalltalk
21:09:48 <Bike> figure out if emacs is better than vi while you're at it
21:14:34 <copumpkin> there's a lot of good stuff in that
21:14:53 <kmc> the structure is ok in this case because it's a number of mostly unrelated anecdotes
21:16:49 <Sgeo_> There are a lot of Ruby/Smalltalk flamewars on the Wiki
21:21:33 <Sgeo_> "in which they described a system called Us where objects were subjective rather than objective. "
21:22:10 <Sgeo_> Randall B Smith and David Ungar
21:22:17 <Sgeo_> http://blog.selflanguage.org/2011/09/08/self-us-and-perspectives-on-objects-2/
21:24:45 <Bike> hm, that's kinda neat, think i'd rather use a non-objecty system though
21:28:08 <fizzie> FreeFull: "Snes9x version: 1.53, GTK+ port version: 82"
21:28:23 <fizzie> FreeFull: Though it used to work, and I don't *think* I had updated it.
21:30:13 <fizzie> In quasi-related news, out of curiosity I plugged in a "DualShock 3" controller (with an USB-OTG cable) to this completely stock device, and it highlighted a thing on the screen and let me use the arrow keys and buttons to navigate around. Weird.
21:31:26 <Sgeo_> Bike, I think you would not be a fan of the current Self implementation
21:31:35 <Sgeo_> Although, I guess, not Squeak ugly
21:33:02 <Bike> despite my silliness, visual appearance honestly isn't a high priority of mine.
21:53:15 <c00kiemon5ter> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24R8JObNNQ4 <- 3 parts
21:53:21 <fizzie> Aw, (unlike comments to the contrary) it doesn't quite do the automagical Bluetoothing of the controller too. :/
21:53:26 <c00kiemon5ter> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awQDLoOnkdI + 7 parts
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22:05:03 <Taneb> I seriously suck at upgrading things on computers
22:05:32 <Taneb> Yeah, my computer won't boot now
22:05:48 <Taneb> My laptop won't either, for completely separate reasons
22:06:00 <Taneb> Tried to upgrade to Ubuntu 12.10 from 12.04
22:06:24 <fizzie> Taneb: Extrapolating from your recent status reports, I'd say soon your house will fall down or something like that.
22:06:52 <Taneb> fizzie, that's not completely out of the question.
22:08:42 <Taneb> In other news, I got a letter from the computer science department of Loughborough University that says they're going to give me an offer
22:08:58 <Taneb> (a university offer thing)
22:09:59 <Taneb> So, it's not all doom and gloom
22:12:33 <Taneb> Which one's "grad"
22:12:43 <Bike> The one after undergrad.
22:12:44 <Taneb> I know which ones "undergrad" and "postgrad" are
22:12:55 <Taneb> Yeah, just undergrad
22:13:32 <Taneb> If they said they wanted me to do grad there I'd probably avoid it because they've got me mixed up with someone who's actually competent
22:15:17 <Taneb> Who's the person who's rendered two computers unusable in the past week, one of them twice?
22:15:43 <Bike> grad work in CS has very little to do with actual computers as i understand
22:15:45 <Bike> let alone Ubuntu
22:16:08 <Bike> it's like how the better you get at math, the less likely you are to remember your multiplication tables
22:16:31 <Taneb> The other week, I touched a computer and it crashed
22:16:49 <Taneb> I had never seen the computer before
22:16:56 <Taneb> I think I'm cursed or something
22:17:00 <monqy> depends on what you mean by cs, what you mean by actual computers
22:17:03 <Bike> Maybe it was just shy.
22:17:29 <monqy> theres stuff like architecture that's kind of like actual computers??
22:18:01 <Bike> monqy: like computers that are actually going to be used by muggles like myself by the time you finish your thesis?
22:18:24 <Taneb> Anyway, everything I touch crumbles to dust
22:18:40 <Bike> i mean you could Actually Build a computer out of pipes and crabs but I wouldn't call it an "actual computer" in this why am I thinking about this so much fuck fuck fuck
22:19:06 <Bike> Taneb: same went for ozymandias and he still got to build hugeass statues of himself.
22:20:12 <Taneb> That sounds like a life plan
22:20:23 <fizzie> I think the terms involving "grad" are a bit weird.
22:20:51 <Bike> they're very weird.
22:21:13 <monqy> you've got your phd students and you've got your whatever else
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22:21:18 <fizzie> We didn't use to have a "bachelor's degree" equivalent here, it was all just five-year master's stuff, so "post-grad" tended to mean someone doing a doctoral degree.
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22:22:25 <Bike> fizzie: Did most people get postsecondary education?
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22:23:01 <fizzie> Bike: Well, I mean... there were other tertiary education choices, but the university degrees didn't have the halfway options.
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22:23:22 <Bike> What were the other choices? And were they common?
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22:24:43 <HackEgo> Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot
22:25:36 <Taneb> Sgeo_: on a related subject, I've actually got one of my IRL friends to read Homestuck
22:26:16 <Sgeo_> I've been trying to get most of my RL friends to read Homestuck. My gf read up to the start of Act 5
22:27:36 <Taneb> Did the trolls put her off?
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22:30:41 <Taneb> In other other other news, I'm going to be in an adaptation of Hamlet
22:31:17 <Taneb> Playing Polonius and the Ghost
22:32:36 <kmc> <Bike> grad work in CS has very little to do with actual computers as i understand
22:32:39 <kmc> it really depends
22:32:47 <kmc> lots of things get lumped under "CS"
22:33:31 <Bike> but i think there's more wacky experimental stuff than there is people working on version control or something?
22:33:59 <shachaf> Plenty of wacky experimental things have to do with actual computers.
22:34:11 <kmc> and there's plenty of esoteric theory in version control, haven't you heard of darcs ;)
22:34:13 <shachaf> (Also there are plenty of wacky experimental version control things.)
22:34:14 <Taneb> Like those people trying to make a computer out of water
22:34:35 <Bike> we've done that a few times, or do you mean a good one
22:34:39 <kmc> i keep hearing about MVCC
22:34:52 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MONIAC_Computer
22:34:57 <Bike> MONIAC is actually pretty cool lookin'
22:35:01 <Bike> and also what i was thinking of yes
22:37:02 <Sgeo_> Dropbox doesn't version binaries :(
22:38:11 <Taneb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics was what I was thinking of
22:38:58 <Bike> billiard ball computers continue to be the best analogy
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22:52:09 <zzo38> I have now recorded the most recent Dungeons&Dragons.
22:54:11 <kmc> perfectly frictionless reversible energy-neutral billiard ball computers
22:54:46 <Bike> i actually prefer the ones based on crab swarming, but we don't always get what we want.
22:56:37 <kmc> crab swarming?
22:57:47 <fizzie> What is WRONG with this gamepad. :/
22:58:01 <Taneb> Soldier crabs can be used as a computer
22:58:18 <Taneb> And bathroom tiles are turing-complete, which I find hilarious for some reason
22:58:59 <Taneb> ...I probably ought to figure out how to fix my computer
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22:59:52 <Taneb> Sgeo_: I've rendered two computers useless in the past week, one of them twice
23:00:00 <Taneb> I really suck at everything
23:00:46 <Sgeo_> How are bathroom tiles turing-complete?
23:01:09 <monqy> what does it mean for bathroom tiles to be turing-complete
23:01:10 <Taneb> It's to do with repeating patterns
23:01:12 <fizzie> Hmmkay, the gamepad problem was apparently because gamepad 2 had the same buttons configured, and that took precedence or something.
23:01:31 <Taneb> monqy: you can't predict whether some kinds of patterns repeat
23:02:09 <Sgeo_> "But in 1966, Robert Berger proved that no such algorithm existed, by showing how to translate any Turing machine into a set of Wang tiles that tiles the plane if and only if the Turing machine does not halt."
23:04:28 <kmc> you have a set of possible tiles, and each tile has rules for which other tiles can appear adjacent on each of the sides
23:05:02 <monqy> that's doesn't mean bathroom tiles are "turing complete" (what would that even mean???)
23:05:05 <kmc> for any turing machine and input to that turing machine, you can construct such a set of tiles such that there's an infinite tiling of the plane iff the turing machine doesn't halt
23:05:30 <kmc> it's a pretty easy reduction
23:05:36 <monqy> something about colorless green ideas & sleeping furiously
23:06:12 <Taneb> monqy: bathroom tiles are Turing complete for some interpretations of bathroom tiles and Turing-completeness
23:06:54 <kmc> you have a tile type for each 3-tuple whose elements are drawn from (tape characters `union` head states)
23:07:58 <HackEgo> Dude2: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
23:08:52 <kmc> the horizontal rules enforce that each row looks like ABC BCD CDE DEF etc., so you can read it across as a single turing machine state ABCDEF (where each of these letters could be a tape character or a head state, indicating the head is over the next tape character)
23:09:14 <kmc> and the vertical rules just implement the behavior of a turing machine
23:09:16 <kmc> AND NOW YOU KNOW
23:10:34 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_correspondence_problem is another fun, slightly similar undecidable decision problem
23:10:49 <shachaf> the horizontal rules are remarkably simple
23:10:55 <shachaf> not sure if i love the vertical rules as much
23:11:06 <kmc> is this crypto-beaky again
23:12:03 <kmc> i can go into more detail about the vertical rules if you like
23:12:42 <shachaf> It was just crypto-beaky. :-(
23:15:40 <Sgeo_> Bike, are you the Bike or Bikes on cmubash.org
23:16:20 <Sgeo_> ...I don't know if there is a Bike in that community
23:16:27 <Sgeo_> Just a lot of talk about bikes.
23:16:57 <kmc> i've got a bike, you can ride it if you like, it's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good!
23:17:37 -!- Dude2 has left.
23:17:51 <shachaf> I guess Dude2 didn't feel welcome enough.
23:17:59 <Taneb> And Peter Cushing lives in Whitstable
23:18:14 <kmc> i got a CTCP TIME from him (?) though
23:20:05 <Sgeo_> o.O I'm on cmubash
23:20:11 <Sgeo_> I don't know how this makes me feel
23:20:16 <monqy> did you say a funny thing
23:21:01 <Sgeo_> No but someone else said something that's kind of sort of not really funny in response to what I said
23:21:41 <monqy> sort of not really funny
23:21:49 <monqy> does that mean it's also sort of really funny
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23:26:19 <Sgeo_> http://cmubash.org/?3862
23:26:56 <kmc> that tiles thing was on a problem set in theory of computation class
23:26:58 <kmc> good times
23:27:16 <kmc> we also had to show that 3-coloring graphs is NP-complete but they gave us a SAT gadget for that so it wasn't too hard
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23:30:08 <Sgeo_> Maybe if I start getting into Smalltalk I should just accept that it's likely to be rather imperative
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