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00:19:39 <Vorpal> I just realised why I utterly detest when people write "u" instead of "you" and similar stuff. It doesn't work in my brain since i read the letter "u" as it is pronounced in Swedish, and the word "you" as it is pronounced in English. So it ends up "sounding" like they are stupid (think Discworld troll speech but much worse).
00:23:08 <Vorpal> indeed when I read that you sound *really* stupid
00:29:27 <fizzie> I think "u mad" is the traditional reply to this?
00:30:19 <Vorpal> FreeFull, is that "oo" in English or Swedish?
00:30:43 <Vorpal> FreeFull, that has a different quality than the Swedish letter "u" though
00:30:49 <Vorpal> similar yes, but not quite
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00:31:12 <FreeFull> Vorpal: Is it similar to the polish u then?
00:32:05 <Vorpal> c00kiemon5ter, different phonemes yes
00:32:16 <Vorpal> anyway wasn't FreeFull Swedish? Or was it FireFly?
00:32:33 <FreeFull> I have no idea what FireFly is
00:32:42 <Vorpal> FreeFull, a person in this channel
00:32:50 <HackEgo> Sweden is the suburb capital of Norway. It's where all the Nobel prizes are announced, except the Math Prize.
00:33:04 <HackEgo> Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced.
00:33:13 <FreeFull> I know my nickserv account is older than his =P
00:33:19 <HackEgo> See `? for further details.
00:33:41 <HackEgo> Scotland is a country in northern Britain. It is known for having no true inhabitants. The official religion is hatheism. Phantom_Hoover looks after the FREEDOM.
00:34:11 <HackEgo> This wisdom entry had to be removed due to a DMCA takedown notice.
00:34:21 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, do you want Scotland to leave the UK btw? I seem to remember some party wanting to have a vote about that
00:35:00 <shachaf> oerjan: I demand a wisdom entry for California.
00:35:22 <Vorpal> shachaf, they had too many drugs to write one
00:35:51 <Gregor> `learn California is pronounced "Caliphate-ornery-I-A"
00:36:03 <olsner> `learn irc is useless.
00:36:19 <Vorpal> same as the Swedish spröd?
00:36:30 <olsner> probably more like crispy
00:36:39 <olsner> you know, like selleri is
00:37:05 <Vorpal> olsner, hm google translate suggests it means "crazy"
00:37:17 <Vorpal> Gregor, I would assume so
00:37:19 <Gregor> Because I wouldn't call celery crispy. Although I'm not sure why.
00:38:25 <Vorpal> google translate translates "sprø" to "crazy" but "sprø som selleri" to "spröd som selleri" which means "crisp as celery", and it fails translating it directly to English
00:38:45 <Vorpal> I don't trust google translate on this one
00:39:04 <Vorpal> I think it is kind of "meh"
00:39:36 <Gregor> Celery is crisp but not crispy.
00:40:00 <Vorpal> Gregor, do those words mean different things?
00:40:15 <Vorpal> because then it is an error in my translation from Swedish
00:40:18 <FreeFull> I don't know, celery is pretty crispy
00:40:23 <Vorpal> it should end up as "crispy"
00:40:32 <FreeFull> Maybe not as crispy as other stuff
00:40:57 <Vorpal> FreeFull, what about compared to crisps?
00:41:14 <FreeFull> Well, can you get crispier than crisps? Yes, but not easily
00:41:15 <fizzie> Curiously enough, it's also "selleri" in Finnish.
00:41:17 <olsner> there's also the rooty bulby kind of celery, I think that's neither crisp nor crispy
00:41:40 * c00kiemon5ter was pretty close, thinking of another word that starts with c
00:42:22 <Vorpal> fizzie, and in Swedish
00:42:51 <fizzie> Vorpal: That was the "also" bit.
00:43:17 <fizzie> Whereas en:cellar is fi:kellari. (I guess that's sv:källare?)
00:43:21 <Vorpal> fizzie, oh I thought it was "Norwegian also Finnish"
00:43:29 <Gregor> <Vorpal> Gregor, do those words mean different things? // Apparently they do to me!
00:43:32 <fizzie> I don't know if it's Norwegian.
00:43:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, well it was a Norwegian phrase we started with
00:43:59 <Vorpal> Gregor, well you are the native speaker, I assume you are correct
00:44:13 <Gregor> There's no such thing as "correct"
00:44:18 <Gregor> Everyone has their own interpretation of language.
00:45:27 <Vorpal> Gregor, by that token I can claim that "ashjawlkj seajfl wask gka" is a valid and very philosophical phrase in my interpretation of English. Pretty useless for communicating with anyone else though
00:46:05 <shachaf> It's one of those discussions.
00:46:30 <monqy> "those discussions" are cute
00:47:13 <olsner> some of them are cute, others are just about celery
00:47:26 * shachaf sentences Vorpal: Transportation for life! And then to be fined forty pound.
00:47:40 <Vorpal> olsner, speaking of philosophical :D
00:47:51 <Vorpal> well at least it sounded kind of deep
00:47:56 <shachaf> transportation for life is a pretty cool sentence imo
00:48:06 <shachaf> do you get to ride on trains
00:48:14 <Vorpal> shachaf, depends on what sort of transportation
00:48:22 <olsner> Vorpal: nothing deep about it, really
00:48:30 <shachaf> Vorpal: All it says is "transportation".
00:48:37 <shachaf> The Jury all cheered, though the Judge said he feared
00:48:37 <shachaf> That the phrase was not legally sound.
00:48:41 <Vorpal> shachaf, I mean, I wouldn't mind a free Tesla car.
00:49:15 <shachaf> Most people prefer their cars to be subservient.
00:49:16 <olsner> Vorpal: *this* is deep: FOUR SIMULTANEOUS TYPE SYSTEMS IN A SINGLE ROTATION OF THE LAMBDA CUBE
00:49:37 <Vorpal> olsner, no that is just a parody of time cube
00:50:06 <Vorpal> nice parody sure, but not very deep
00:50:20 <shachaf> The time cube is so deep that even parodies of it are below average.
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01:07:14 <Phantom__Hoover> <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, do you want Scotland to leave the UK btw? I seem to remember some party wanting to have a vote about that
01:07:28 <Phantom__Hoover> It is probably more convenient for me if it doesn't, so no.
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01:08:24 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, no true Scotsman would ever say that! (please read this in a highland dialect)
01:11:44 <Bike> Sgeo_: the fuck is cmubash
01:12:00 <Sgeo_> Bike, presumable a qdb for #cslounge
01:12:15 <Bike> well probably not unless someone is stalking me
01:13:49 <Fiora> http://cmubash.org/?3911 okay this is actually hilarious
01:14:20 <Bike> Sgeo_: http://cmubash.org/?3887 here this one is me
01:15:32 <Fiora> I though CMU was carnegie mellon?
01:16:03 <monqy> Carnegie Mellon Quote Database CMUQDB
01:16:07 <Sgeo_> "A CAPTCHA is a program that can generate and grade tests that it itself cannot pass. So it's like a lot of professors."
01:17:14 <Fiora> < kjones> i would argue that the dividing line between childhood and adulthood is knowing that you can have ice cream literally whenever you want, but not doing it
01:17:19 <Fiora> this is actually 100% accurate
01:17:27 <Bike> i have not yet passed that line.
01:19:44 <Fiora> >All I know about your personal lives is based on the distribution of bikes.
01:20:39 <Sgeo_> Bike, they totally love you
01:21:07 <Bike> if they loved me why would they use me as an out-of-band spying mechanism
01:21:07 <Sgeo_> Phantom__Hoover, there is some awesome context for that
01:22:11 <Sgeo_> http://pastie.org/5731384
01:23:58 <Fiora> I did a few more calculations, and... he was right. If the sun were made of gerbils their body heat would kill us.
01:24:04 <Fiora> this qdb is wonderful
01:25:51 <Fiora> Professor Sieg: This proof of the irrationality of root two was so guarded by the Pythagoreans that a member who disclosed the secret was drowned in the sea.
01:25:55 <Fiora> Girl in class: That's pretty harsh treatment for radicals.
01:27:11 <Bike> that's not the version of that anecdote I heard...
01:27:24 <Bike> also how many materials are denser than hydrogen but not dense enough to kill us when in sun form
01:33:14 <Fiora> hydrogen has that weird property that it takes about 5 billion years on average for any given nucleus to react
01:34:02 <Bike> thank goodness there's so much of it.
01:34:11 <Fiora> Quinn: So essentially you started without something that doesn't involve relativity and is non-physical, then applied that result to something which does involve relativity. So you assumed something, and its contradiction. If you do that you can prove anything.
01:34:15 <Fiora> kcleary: Well, I just solved some equations. Can't a boy dream?
01:34:18 <Fiora> Quinn: [pointing to his floor] This is the Physics department. If you want to solve equations the math department is that way, and you can go to Philosophy for dreaming.
01:34:21 <Fiora> kcleary: Well, now I'm insulted
01:34:23 <Fiora> Quinn: And for that you can go to the art department.
01:34:45 <Fiora> Michelle Hicks (33-104 TA): Can anyone tell me what the first law of thermodynamics is?
01:34:48 <Fiora> msarnoff: You do not talk about thermodynamics!
01:34:49 <Fiora> this place sounds wonderful
01:35:06 <Bike> mocking philosophy and art is so dorky, though
01:35:37 <monqy> good luck finding something in there that isn't so dorky
01:35:53 <Fiora> <Grimnir> $ cat "can of food"
01:35:54 <Fiora> <Grimnir> cat: cannot open can of food
01:36:05 <Bike> well you know, irritatingly dorky, rather than just a pun.
01:36:20 <Bike> Fiora: "Don't know how to make love. Stop."
01:37:52 <Bike> sgeo, are you a makefile? be honest.
01:38:26 <fizzie> "If I had a ( for every $ [target of mocking] spent, what would I have?" "Too many (s." (Also from one of those shell humour lists. Very few of these are ever applicable to any shells I have installed.)
01:39:04 <Fiora> * evilwombat <2.9999999999 floats
01:39:06 <Fiora> that's for you Bike
01:39:27 <Bike> isn't it more likely to be 2.999999996
01:39:38 <Fiora> ...... you are the pedantist
01:42:42 <fizzie> [03:42:20] <fizzie> ,cc printf("%.25f %.12f", nextafter(3,0), nextafterf(3,0))
01:42:42 <fizzie> [03:42:22] <candide> fizzie: 2.9999999999999995559107901 2.999999761581
01:43:02 <fizzie> Those are some of the likeliest values, arguably.
01:43:33 <Bike> i didn't even know those were functions :/
01:45:41 <fizzie> [03:45:28] <fizzie> ,cc float f = 3.0; --*(int*)&f; printf("%.12f", f); /* the *manly* way */
01:45:44 <fizzie> [03:45:30] <candide> fizzie: 2.999999761581
01:47:23 <monqy> that's a bit too manly for me
01:48:17 <Bike> why did i think the exponent was in the least significant part of the word...
01:50:21 <fizzie> It's (allegedly) specifically designed for ++ and -- to do the right thing even (IIRC) across the subnormal-to-normalized border, as long as you don't change sign.
01:50:24 <fizzie> [03:48:57] <fizzie> ,cc float f = 0; --*(int*)&f; printf("%.12f %.12f", f, nextafterf(0,-1));
01:50:27 <fizzie> [03:48:59] <candide> fizzie: -nan -0.000000000000
01:50:37 <fizzie> That's not quite so successful though.
01:51:17 <Fiora> I love the things you can do with float like that
01:51:36 <fizzie> It's also interesting that the next float after 0 to the negative direction is the -0.
01:51:51 <Bike> is that surprising?
01:52:13 <shachaf> i love/hate floating points
01:52:19 <fizzie> Well, the description does say "number less than x"
01:53:24 <Bike> "The nextafter() function computes the next representable double-precision floating-point value following x in the direction of y. Thus, if y is less than x, nextafter() returns the largest representable floating-point number less than x."
01:53:31 <Bike> the second sentence seems like kind of a mistake.
01:53:47 <Fiora> now I'm remembering all that stuff by the crazy float guy
01:54:00 <Bike> I wish there were more non-loony alternatives so I could compare them.
01:54:08 <fizzie> -0 is not less than 0, so...
01:54:26 <fizzie> Arguably it is "next", though.
01:54:41 <Bike> yeah, the first sentence seems better to me
01:55:10 <shachaf> Floating points have so many great properties.
01:55:13 <shachaf> How can they be so terrible?
01:55:29 <Fiora> maybe you could treat 0 as an infinitesimal value just above 0?
01:55:33 <Fiora> and -0 just below zero?
01:55:57 <fizzie> Bike: The standard doesn't say anything about "less than", so perhaps it's just a manpage author mistake.
01:55:58 <Bike> check out his faculty page, it's amazing
01:56:09 <Bike> fizzie: seems reasonable.
01:56:13 <Fiora> he invented x87, and is one of those people that cares only about a single topic in the world, redirects every conversation to that topic, and can ramble about nothing else
01:56:27 <Fiora> he is practically loony, it's kind of hilarious
01:57:05 <Bike> shachaf: Does floating point have badness that isn't attributable to people using it for things it should be used for (e.g. currency)? i mean, it's so complicated that people miss out on subtleties and make bad code, but
01:57:24 <Bike> Fiora: I thought "floats are actually ranges [around their nominal value]" was a standard mathematical interpretation.
01:57:30 <fizzie> Fiora: Must make e.g. discussions re where to go for lunch quite annoying.
01:57:52 <Phantom__Hoover> Bike, well there's the basic fact that it's generally taught as "the way to represent non-integer numbers".
01:57:53 <Fiora> "Hmm, I'd go to Subway, but their software might have floating point bugs, resulting in incorrect mixes of ingredients."
01:57:56 <Bike> "No, we have to have lunch at /noon/. Binary doesn't work so well with 11:00."
01:58:18 <Bike> Phantom__Hoover: yes, which sucks, but that's directly the fault of floating point.
01:58:58 <Fiora> I'm not sure fixed point would be better
01:59:02 <Phantom__Hoover> Where do you draw the line between floating point and common use and understanding of floating point?
01:59:12 <shachaf> Computable reals are the future.
01:59:27 <Bike> imo continued fractions 4 lyfe
02:00:03 <shachaf> surreals are "pretty cool imo"
02:00:08 <Bike> i don't think surreals are really computer ready...
02:00:24 <shachaf> but yesterday someone linked to http://types2004.lri.fr/SLIDES/mamane.pdf
02:00:25 <Bike> all them infinite sets for fractions 'n' shi
02:00:30 <Bike> And what's that?
02:00:50 <Bike> or was it irrationals you needed infinite sets for...
02:00:52 <shachaf> Bike: You don't need infinite sets for fractions, do you?
02:01:08 <shachaf> Or maybe you do in general.
02:01:12 <Bike> For ones like 1/3, I thought.
02:01:15 <Bike> It's been a while.
02:01:28 <shachaf> Right, that sounds reasonable.
02:02:57 <shachaf> I wonder whether my eyes are getting worse.
02:03:02 <shachaf> Also, there should be a ban on drums.
02:03:13 <shachaf> Especially playing music that involves drums in public places.
02:03:58 <shachaf> Seriously, people are playing drummy music and I was going to concentrate on something but I'm really unable to.
02:04:03 <Phantom__Hoover> this is what i'd expect from oerjan or fizzie or someone else old
02:04:14 <shachaf> Phantom__Hoover: I'm old. :-(
02:05:01 <shachaf> But the Judge said he never had summed up before;
02:05:01 <shachaf> So the Snark undertook it instead,
02:05:01 <shachaf> And summed it so well that it came to far more
02:05:01 <shachaf> Than the Witnesses ever had said!
02:09:02 <monqy> that's still pretty vague
02:09:14 <shachaf> the kind that go boom boom boom boom
02:09:28 <monqy> what is a drum, how is a drum used
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02:24:56 <monqy> but cymbals are not drums??????? we're not talking about those.
02:25:13 <Bike> they're still part of a drumset, which is a set of drums.
02:25:19 <shachaf> monqy: but wait what if i meant cymbals
02:25:27 <shachaf> monqy: did we ever narrow down what it was that i "really meant"??
02:25:37 <monqy> Q: did you mean cymbals
02:25:43 <monqy> A: no you said boom boom boom boom
02:25:48 <monqy> cymbals do not go boom
02:27:16 <Jafet> {snare, bass, tom, tom, unsafeCoerce hat, timpani, oil}
02:27:23 <Jafet> Wait that's not a set
02:27:51 <Jafet> monqy: nitroglycerin cymbals
02:28:19 <monqy> never seen one of those :o! do they have good sound
02:28:46 <Jafet> They're used in the overture of 2012
02:29:32 <Bike> 2012 overture? did russia get invaded again?
02:31:52 <Jafet> The russians now compose with tactical nuclear warheads
02:32:18 <Jafet> I wonder what a nuclear warhead sounds like
02:32:54 <Bike> you mean an explosion?
02:33:25 <Jafet> A nooh-ku-leer explosion
02:34:24 <Bike> mostly it sounds like a thousand trains going by, and then 700 mph winds and cars flying by and buildings falling, and then people screaming and crying. mostly the same as conventional bombing
02:36:31 <Jafet> You're talking about the environmental effects on the sound of an explosion
02:36:50 <Jafet> But what if you used warheads in the studio?
02:37:12 <Bike> you wouldn't hear anything because you'd be vaporized?
02:37:29 <Jafet> Ok, so we need better equipment
02:38:01 <Bike> at any reasonable range it'd destroy your eardrums, so there's that too
02:38:30 <monqy> how about an unreasonable range
02:39:26 <HackEgo> Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot
02:40:17 <Jafet> Bike: no one in a studio has intact eardrums anyway
02:40:38 <Jafet> That's why CDs are mixed at 0dB
02:40:53 <Bike> you work in weird studios.
02:41:19 <Jafet> You're just jealous that you can't use tactical nuclear warheads
02:44:12 <Phantom__Hoover> <Bike> mostly it sounds like a thousand trains going by, and then 700 mph winds and cars flying by and buildings falling, and then people screaming and crying. mostly the same as conventional bombing
02:45:03 <Bike> If you're far enough away to be alive? Sure.
02:45:05 <Jafet> Only the sissy japanese ever did that in response to a nuclear bombing
02:46:04 <shachaf> Fiora: You're too nice for ##c.
02:46:13 <shachaf> Have you considered insulting people a bit, to fit in?
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02:47:17 <Bike> what's shakin' in ##c
02:47:48 <Fiora> shachaf: I'm sorry :<
02:47:59 <Fiora> I try to spot when nobody else is helping someone
02:49:35 <Bike> nope, still boring
02:49:43 <Fiora> but it's really just a bunch of language lawyers being douchenozzles
02:50:06 <Jafet> shachaf: only Zhivago does that, you moron
02:50:25 <Fiora> did you just hear that
02:50:27 <Fiora> I INSULTED SOMEONE
02:50:50 <Jafet> I should try to use "douchenozzles"
02:50:53 <shachaf> You can't insult someone behind their back...
02:51:03 <Fiora> douchewaffle is I think my favorite
02:51:17 <shachaf> Fiora: Insult them to their face, you coward!
02:51:25 <Fiora> I'm sorry, I'm a coward :<
02:51:36 <shachaf> You could use a lot of practice at this.
02:51:41 <Bike> admirable effort though
02:51:57 <shachaf> Yes, that counts for something. Keep at it.
02:52:00 <Fiora> I'm sorry, my attempts to show dislike towards people turn into passive aggression usually ~_~
02:52:16 <shachaf> Anyway, nothing wrong with language lawyerism.
02:52:38 <Gregor> "douchewaffle" makes me read "douchewaffe", "waffe" as in "luftwaffe"
02:52:48 <shachaf> I got 0x$0.20 for language lawyering!
02:52:59 <Bike> it's kind of irritating when someone asks a question ill-conceived with the standard and they get an earful about standards before someone says "but here's how you do it anyway"
02:53:04 <Fiora> the douchwaffe, is that like, a squadron consisting entirely of MRAs or something?
02:53:23 <Fiora> Bike: in this case I think it's worse because the standards mistake was in the /assignment/, it isn't even their fault that the assignment was overly simplifying or anything
02:53:27 <shachaf> Bike: I can't tell which part you think is irritating.
02:53:34 <Fiora> but now they get to suffer as people go into a dumb language lawyer argument over something they didn't even do...
02:53:53 <Fiora> oh. "douchecanoe" is nice too
02:54:08 * shachaf senses a common theme here.
02:54:29 <shachaf> Fiora: To be fair, this person doesn't seem to have read all of the assignment.
02:54:56 <Fiora> I guess, but that never justifies being mean and confusing to people trying to learn things ._.
02:55:17 <shachaf> Do you see me being mean and confusing?
02:55:20 <shachaf> I only do that in #haskell!
02:55:22 <Fiora> I-I didn't mean you >_<
02:55:45 <shachaf> #haskell tries to hard to be friendly.
02:55:48 <shachaf> Someone has to balance it out.
02:55:53 <shachaf> (Well, that's Jafet's job.)
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03:07:41 <Bike> shachaf: the answers are more annoying than the questions, because the answerer should know better.
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03:08:27 <zzo38> The answer to life, the universe, and everything.
03:08:28 <Bike> The unhelpful, pedantic standards ones.
03:09:29 <Bike> I mean, explain the standard, sure, but try to help with the actual problem too.
03:10:41 <shachaf> Sometimes someone is so confused that there is no hope to give a direct answer to their question. They have to change their mindset.
03:11:10 <shachaf> Maybe this happens in #haskell more than ##c.
03:11:58 <Bike> that happens too, but there are still bad ways to respond to it.
03:14:07 <Bike> Like... if someone asks "Do I need to #include functions before I use them?" helpful answers might include "#include just pastes the file named right into the present file" (even though that's not completely true and doesn't cover translation units or anything) or "no, but you need to declare functions before you use them, and #include'd files often have these declarations in them"
03:14:32 <Bike> And not, I dunno, "You can't use preprocessor directives on function pointers"
03:15:38 <shachaf> Bike: Pft, functions aren't the same thing as function pointers.
03:17:45 <Bike> well there's that too, sometimes when people are pedantic they seem to interpret the "not even wrong" statement in a weird way like that («obviously they meant recursively calling the preprocessor on the constructed string «#include WXYZ» where WXYZ is the bytes of *nextfloatf»)
03:18:04 <Bike> maybe i just complain too much
03:18:54 <Fiora> you don't complain too much really ~_~
03:20:37 <Bike> no i think i'm just going to pipe /dev/mem to pacat until my brain melts
03:21:00 <Fiora> I mean I pretty much agree, it's like
03:21:09 <Fiora> the people in these channels don't seem interested in a) learning things or b) helping people
03:21:28 <Fiora> but just rather the satisfaction of comin up with the snarkiest, most irrelevant responses possible that don't help people
03:21:49 <Fiora> like "hah! look! I found a C standard error in your question to nitpick on so I don't have to actually answer you!"
03:21:56 <Fiora> and thus their brain fills with dopamine
03:24:06 <Bike> I guess it's the part about actually answering that bugs me. "Do I have to #include functions" includes a whole lot of conceptual errors but there's still a reasonable question in there.
03:24:27 <Bike> also dopamine is overrated imo
03:26:10 <Fiora> like how with the recent question they latched onto OMG INT ISNT 4 BYTES
03:29:04 <shachaf> I suspect you're describing people who aren't me, so talking about how I don't do all those things would be pointless.
03:29:44 <shachaf> But it seems like you're probably misrepresenting those people.
03:29:46 <Bike> you're the one who wanted complaining. if you want complaints about you you should have specified that! (this is a free complaint about you. if you want more please explicitly request them. thanks)
03:30:14 <shachaf> Or maybe it's just me assuming that people aren't awful for some reason.
03:31:00 <Bike> i think it's more that they don't know how to effectively answer questions than that they're awful
03:31:37 <shachaf> Part of it might be that when you've been in a channel for a long time, you tend to keep seeing the same questions from new people.
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03:31:48 <shachaf> And you get annoyed because you've answered that question hundreds of times, why can't they learn!
03:32:05 <monqy> universally accepted ##c norm to non-answer questions
03:32:15 <monqy> perpetuation of the natural way & also a joke
03:32:17 <Bike> Yeah, it is annoying, that's for sure.
03:33:06 <shachaf> Also people might just be in a bad mood because of drums playing in the background or something.
03:37:36 <Bike> yeah, where the hell do you live that this is a problem, it sounds sucky
03:37:43 <Bike> do you live in a metronome factory?
03:37:55 <shachaf> Metronomes are not as bad as drums.
03:38:10 <Bike> Yes but metronomes might attract drummers.
03:39:53 <monqy> like moths to a candle????
03:40:14 <shachaf> like crazy people to #esoteric????
03:40:35 <Bike> Yes except metronomes aren't usually on fire, and when they are it's usually not intentional, except when it is.
03:40:41 <Bike> Like for disposal maybe.
03:40:56 <shachaf> Bike: Did you play Zork Zero?
03:41:10 <shachaf> or monqy/Fiora/Sgeo/Phantom_Hoover
03:41:26 <monqy> i've played a bit of some zork maybe including zero years and years ago
03:41:29 <monqy> so i forget everything about it
03:41:31 <Sgeo> Haven't heard of Zork Zero. Have heard of Zork, never played it
03:41:33 <Bike> What monqy said.
03:41:36 <shachaf> Zork Zero is very different from the other Zorks.
03:41:39 <Phantom_Hoover> i think the only text-based thing i've played is the h2g2 game
03:42:20 <Bike> i played Shade. I think that's the only IF i've finished.
03:42:31 <shachaf> what about "enlightenment"
03:42:56 <shachaf> pretty short -- only one room
03:43:32 <Bike> just like shade whoa man
03:44:17 <shachaf> http://jayisgames.com/games/enlightenment/
03:44:26 <shachaf> "wow thats a lot of advertisements/??'"
03:44:48 <Bike> Oh I did play another one! That one where you wake up at like 9 AM and you're late to work.
03:45:05 <shachaf> Bike: wait is that called "real life"
03:45:21 <Bike> Only if you're a murderer.
03:45:23 <Bike> Are you a murderer?
03:45:38 <Bike> 'Comments or Questions about Enlightenment?' also
03:49:25 <Jafet> http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/Aisle
03:49:34 <kmc> hm so with this thing it would take only like $500k to take over the bitcoin network: http://www.butterflylabs.com/
03:49:41 <kmc> and you could probably DIY for less than $500k
03:49:53 <Sgeo> "Do you know Keegan McAllister on Twitter?"
03:49:59 <Sgeo> Uh, yes, that's why I followed him
03:50:15 <Fiora> DIY for less? it'd probably be hard to DIY a silicon chip...
03:50:17 <Sgeo> (Actually, my other Twitter account got that email)
03:50:24 <Sgeo> So it makes sense
03:50:25 <shachaf> kmc: Did you get a Twitter notification mentioning me?
03:50:40 <kmc> Fiora: by DIY i mean do your own design and then send it off to a commodity foundry
03:50:46 <Fiora> for under $500k? @_@
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03:52:44 <Fiora> I wonder what process they're using
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03:53:24 <Bike> I don't get how to finish Enlightenment.
03:53:44 <kmc> you can do a 'structured ASIC' for much less than $500k fixed cost, but the result might have a poor price:performance
03:54:06 <Jafet> What does "take over" mean
03:54:10 <Fiora> "structured ASIC"?
03:54:16 <kmc> Jafet: control which transactions are allowed
03:55:04 <kmc> yeah it's like an FPGA where the configuration is a custom metal layer in between standard semiconductor layers
03:55:11 <kmc> or something along those lines
03:55:15 <kmc> so a non-FP GA
03:55:55 <kmc> finding some sources saying $500k fixed cost is feasible for a 0.2 μm or bigger process
03:56:53 <Fiora> like... this thing claims 60 gh/s, while the best fpgas before did only like 100mh/s or 200mh/s
03:56:57 <Fiora> so that's nearly 1000 times faster
03:57:18 <Fiora> but I don't think asics arenormally 1000 times faster especially if they're on a way worse process..
03:57:24 <Fiora> but I might be wrong
03:58:15 <kmc> i don't know much about how process affects speed
03:58:19 <Jafet> 1000 FPGAs do 60 GH/s
03:58:30 <Jafet> The cycle speed is irrelevant
03:58:31 <kmc> SHA-256 core should not take up much area or require signals to go very far
04:00:10 <Jafet> About 90% area of an FPGA chip is interconnect
04:00:58 <Fiora> "2.8 tb/s total serial bandwidth" @_@
04:01:02 <Fiora> fpgas are insane nowadays
04:01:39 <kmc> seems like you could fabricate a bunch of small independent bitcoin cores, using cheap fab capacity on a not-cutting-edge process
04:01:51 <kmc> maybe on questionable wafers (who cares if one of your cores doesn't work?)
04:02:31 <Fiora> I'm guessing big ASICs probably work the same way? I mean they're massively parallel so they could probably disable a "core" in some way or another
04:02:49 <Jafet> Your CPU manufacturer already works this way
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04:03:19 <kmc> right but the size of die which is all-or-nothing for a Core processor is much higher than for a bitcoin processor
04:03:24 <shachaf> oerjan: Thanks for that --} trick, by the way. I use it all the time now.
04:03:31 <kmc> i mean if half the cache is bad then they sell it as a celeron or whatever
04:03:49 <Fiora> I don't think the defect rates are that high nowadays?
04:03:50 <kmc> but in general if you destroy 50% of the wafer then the product is 0% usable
04:04:04 <Fiora> last I heard they were hardware-disabling chunks of a lot of chips because they didn't have enough celerons
04:04:13 <kmc> whereas with a bunch of independent tiny SHA-256 cores, it might be almost 50% usable
04:04:16 <Fiora> because their defect rates were too good XD
04:04:25 <kmc> yeah you can always laser them out
04:04:33 <kmc> the 486-SX was a 486-DX with the FPU lasered out
04:04:39 <Fiora> and then there was that thing where Intel was selling software upgrades for their CPUs
04:04:43 <kmc> and the add-on FPU chip was just a 486-DX with the not-FPU lasered out >_<
04:05:00 <Fiora> http://www.anandtech.com/show/4621/intel-to-offer-cpu-upgrades-via-software-for-selected-models I wonder if they actually did this?
04:07:37 <kmc> i never heard about it happening
04:08:13 <Fiora> the link seems to be dead >_<
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04:15:15 <shachaf> Jafet: That's a whole extra character.
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04:46:51 <kmc> shachaf: what's the "--} trick"?
04:47:38 <shachaf> kmc: Putting a --} somewhere so you can comment out all the code to that point with {-
04:49:14 <kmc> huh, right, --} is not an operator, even though things like --+ are
04:49:40 <shachaf> kmc: If it was, I think you could still -- -}
04:49:50 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
04:50:04 <Bike> ...incorrect indentation?
04:50:07 <shachaf> "fix ur indentation Bike......"
04:50:25 <shachaf> Bike: Indentation in Haskell translates to {} and ; and ()
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04:50:32 <lambdabot> <no location info>: not an expression: `'
04:50:34 <shachaf> So GHC tends to treat unmatched parentheses and such as indentation errors.
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04:51:04 <shachaf> There's a simple rule to translate layout Haskell to non-layout Haskell.
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04:55:45 <kmc> there is one unfortunate case that makes it not simple
04:55:47 <kmc> but basically
04:55:59 <Bike> wait tell me the unfortunate case first, i love those
04:56:24 <kmc> 'A close brace is also inserted whenever the syntactic category containing the layout list ends; that is, if an illegal lexeme is encountered at a point where a close brace would be legal, a close brace is inserted. '
04:56:57 <kmc> by 'illegal lexeme' they mean a parse error
04:57:09 <kmc> so the de-layout-ifier needs feedback from the parser :/
04:57:19 <kmc> but i think you can mostly do without
04:57:25 <kmc> what are the cases where this rule is invoked?
04:58:57 <kmc> otherwise the rules are pretty simple. You remember the column of the first token after 'do' 'let' 'case', or 'in'. any line starting in the same column is prefixed with an implicit ';' and any line starting left of there is prefixed with a '}' to match the implicit '{' after that keyword
04:59:49 <kmc> shachaf: in what case does it translate to ()?
05:01:06 <Jafet> > let f = \x -> x in f ()
05:01:41 <kmc> that invokes the 'parse error' rule
05:04:25 <Jafet> > let _ * _ = () in a * b * c
05:05:03 <Jafet> > let {} in () == () == True
05:05:04 <lambdabot> cannot mix `GHC.Classes.==' [infix 4] and `GH...
05:05:38 <Jafet> So in haskell98, (() == () == True) is an error, but (let {} in () == () == True) is legal
05:05:47 <Jafet> "Thankfully ghc doesn't implement it"
05:06:13 <kmc> the latter parses as (let {} in () == ()) == True ?
05:06:51 <Jafet> http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/users_guide/bugs-and-infelicities.html#infelicities-syntax
05:07:04 <Bike> "infelicities". wow.
05:10:32 <Jafet> "It's a bug, but not in our software"
05:10:56 <shachaf> Except the people who write GHC and the people who write the report are the same people.
05:11:15 <shachaf> Admittedly this particular issue is not present in Haskell 2010.
05:11:31 <Jafet> That depends on your philosophical view, doesn't it
05:12:05 <shachaf> can you cross the same ghc developer twice
05:12:58 <shachaf> kmc: Did you see SPJ's technique for responding to feature requests?
05:13:00 <shachaf> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/7496
05:13:05 <Sgeo> I can almost smell the future pasta
05:25:24 <monqy> wow how'd you find it
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05:26:23 <Bike> a good radical
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05:27:00 <zzo38> What programming language(s) have registers named by letters A to Z, where the uppercase and lowercase indicate the same registers but modifies the command which uses them depending on the case?
05:27:25 <zzo38> PNG chunks use uppercase/lowercase letters to indicate bitfield of chunk name, but that isn't quite it.
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05:30:02 <kmc> radical radish
05:31:05 <zzo38> I mean such as using lowercase to load the value from the register and uppercase to store the value to the register, or using lowercase for negative numbers and uppercase for positive numbers, or whatever.
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05:54:45 <Sgeo> Am I a language hipster? I think I'm a language hipster.
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05:55:25 <Sgeo> Then again, I'm worse with games. If someone asks me what games I like, I literally start out disclaiming that it's unlikely they've heard of them. (Creatures comes to mind)
05:55:32 <Sgeo> Although I do like Portal and Portal 2, and those are popular
05:55:47 <shachaf> Somehow I've heard of Creatures.
05:56:00 <monqy> was it because of sgeo
05:56:16 <shachaf> oops am i using monqy's nose
05:56:26 <monqy> its ok i dont need a nose
05:56:42 <Sgeo> then how do you make a certain overused joke?
05:56:56 <shachaf> Sgeo: have you considered being a language tomator??
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05:57:20 <Sgeo> I have no idea what a tomator is
05:57:42 <oerjan> i say tomator, you say tomatah
05:58:29 <monqy> Sgeo: who makes what certain overused joke
05:59:22 <Sgeo> Was referring to "My dog has no nose! How does it smell? Terrible!"
06:02:06 <shachaf> Sgeo: how about: impossible creatures
06:02:10 <shachaf> is that the same as creatures
06:02:23 <Sgeo> No. Haven't heard of Impossible Creatures
06:02:40 <oerjan> @tell Taneb <Taneb> Who's the person who's rendered two computers unusable in the past week, one of them twice? <-- maybe you can be the wolfgang pauli of CS!
06:03:08 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qShEYneiYRI
06:03:17 <Sgeo> (note: Not listening to the audio right now)
06:03:44 <Sgeo> ...but the person fails at spelling
06:04:18 <Sgeo> I think e's 14, based on comments
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06:20:12 * oerjan detects a fungot failure
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06:26:48 <Sgeo> Smalltalk and Common Lisp keep wrongly tricking me into thinking that a language needs good support for certain reflective features (such as resumable exceptions) to have good debugger support (such as resuming from an exception in the debugger)
06:27:26 <Bike> you don't need any reflective features to do anything Am I Right
06:27:58 <shachaf> monqy: it just slipped out
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06:28:28 <Sgeo> Maybe reflective was the wrong word
06:28:29 <shachaf> monqy: are you the fun police!!
06:28:39 <monqy> i'm the beaky police.........
06:28:53 <Sgeo> <monqy> i'm the beaky
06:29:09 <Bike> ^rot13 funpolice
06:29:24 <Sgeo> erm, no fungot!
06:29:47 <kmc> why the long face
06:30:05 <monqy> sgeo what's the joke with your misquote of me..
06:30:28 <Sgeo> Does it technically count as a misquote or just an out of context quote?
06:30:34 <Bike> yeah sgeo what's the joke········
06:30:48 <oerjan> fizzie: fungot failure found
06:30:51 <Sgeo> Bike, with "no springs!" or with me deciding that taking monqy out of context was funny
06:31:00 <shachaf> hi································································································································
06:31:37 <Sgeo> MST3k reference for the springs thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJD0GTwLkVM
06:32:08 <Sgeo> And as for me thinking taking monqy out of context would be funny, I thought taking monqy out of context would be funny.
06:32:08 <Bike> oh i thought it was the rot13 of "fungot"
06:32:11 <Sgeo> I guess it wasn't
06:32:37 <oerjan> kmc: that tiling turing machine you describe in the logs, doesn't that require that a starting tile is present? whenever i think about how to encode a TM as tile it seems easy except for enforcing that you are not just tiling with a neverending tape without a machine head in it
06:32:43 <Sgeo> > length "fungot" == length "springs"
06:32:58 <Bike> eh close enough
06:33:03 <oerjan> unless you enforce that a particular tile must be used somewhere
06:33:57 <Bike> imo ghost ship
06:37:17 <oerjan> but the wang tile article on wikipedia doesn't seem to imply this is necessary.
06:37:26 <kmc> oerjan: yeah i don't remember this detail
06:37:37 <kmc> i think the varient on our problem set let you specify a seed tile
06:40:06 <oerjan> hm the page has a reference to jarkko kari, i think that's oklopol's advisor
06:44:42 <oerjan> i think i tried to get oklopol to explain this stuff once. or maybe he tried to explain it and i wasn't listening. in any case i still don't know how a seedless version works.
06:53:29 <HackEgo> California is pronounced "Caliphate-ornery-I-A"
06:54:08 <Bike> `cat wisdom/california
06:54:09 <HackEgo> California is pronounced "Caliphate-ornery-I-A"
06:55:29 <oerjan> `learn Oregon is the home of Oregano. Gregor used to take care of the color scheme, but then he left.
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07:08:45 <quintopia> so jigsaw puzzles are turing complete eh. not particularly surprising i guess
07:09:47 <Jafet> Only infinite ones
07:09:57 <kmc> hm i would also be interested to know how the seedless version works
07:09:58 <Jafet> I tried to buy one of those but they cost a lot
07:10:43 <kmc> maybe each tile also has a number saying how many steps left/right to the head
07:10:53 <kmc> and you have an infinite number of tile types but it's still r.e.
07:11:26 <kmc> i don't remember exactly what the wang tiles problem statement is
07:11:58 <Jafet> "Tesselation is a dick"
07:12:53 <kmc> quintopia: hmm but how do you encode allowing adjacency of a specific arbitrary subset of other pieces using the conventional notion of "jigsaw puzzle"
07:13:03 <Jafet> Actually, Wang's proof was wrong
07:13:29 <Jafet> Should have been called Berger tiles or something
07:13:39 <kmc> iirc this stuff comes up in practice with DNA / RNA computing
07:13:49 <Bike> bla bla Stigler
07:14:06 <kmc> and maybe the computing part isn't too interesting, but you can attach your nucleic acids chains to other molecules and thereby get them to self-assemble
07:14:06 <zzo38> Everything in mathematics is named after different people; I read this in some book.
07:14:14 <kmc> everything in mathematics is named after gauss
07:15:01 <kmc> my knowledge of this DNA self assembly thing is at "walked by a poster in a CS building six years ago" level
07:15:03 <oerjan> <Phantom__Hoover> this is what i'd expect from oerjan or fizzie or someone else old <-- I'M ALL WITH SHACHAF ON THE DRUM THING
07:15:05 <zzo38> I mean, different people than what some people think it should be.
07:15:16 <zzo38> However, if they are all same then it is difficult. So, they have to make it different.
07:15:34 <kmc> zzo38: in Holland the Curry-Howard Isomorphism is the Curry-Howard-de Bruijn Isomorphism
07:16:46 <Bike> de bruijn has indices anyway
07:16:48 <Jafet> I wonder how long the DNA analogues take to self-assemble
07:17:03 <kmc> there is also a Curry–Howard–Lambek correspondence
07:17:04 <Jafet> They probably don't assemble correctly and can't backtrack
07:17:29 <kmc> which is a three-way correspondence between logic, types, and cartesian closed caterogies
07:17:36 <kmc> categories too
07:17:38 <kmc> cat orgies
07:17:50 <oerjan> kmc: given that there are a finite number of tile types, i am pretty sure you could not encode distance from the head in any meaningful way.
07:18:15 <kmc> oerjan: yeah, i didn't know if we were talking about a problem with a finite tile set or just a computable or even r.e. tile set
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07:18:32 <oerjan> clearly finite, otherwise it would be trivial.
07:20:03 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_problem and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_tiles clearly say finite.
07:20:29 <kmc> mm right you could just have the whole state in one tile
07:20:58 <Jafet> The equivalence proof is probably similar to that for postcard systems
07:21:08 <oerjan> if it wasn't finite, all you needed to do was to encode (m,n) as part of the tile and throw out all at (0,0) that weren't your original seed tile
07:21:53 <oerjan> to reduce to the seeded version
07:24:49 <oerjan> <kmc> quintopia: hmm but how do you encode allowing adjacency of a specific arbitrary subset of other pieces using the conventional notion of "jigsaw puzzle" <-- i don't think it's too hard to recode color + intended NESW direction as a geometric pattern on the sides so that only N+S with matching colors can fit together, etc.
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07:29:36 <kmc> hmm right with wang tilings there is only one allowed color, not a set
07:29:45 <kmc> but you can reduce a set to single colors easily
07:30:26 <Jafet> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_correspondence_problem#Proof_sketch_of_undecidability
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07:34:19 <kmc> that's another fun problem but i'm not sure how much light it sheds on the wang tilings proof at the level of specificity we're talking
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07:35:45 <kmc> the PCP decision problem is a global property of the configuration of dominoes
07:36:16 <kmc> the wang tile problem is a local property of every pair of adjacent tiles
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07:40:08 <Jafet> The proof construction only encodes every sequence of three state transitions
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07:40:17 <Jafet> That's pretty local
07:40:30 <kmc> i'm not talking about the proof construction
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07:40:30 <Jafet> Or actually one state transition
07:40:31 <oerjan> i think if you did the PCP with a two-sided _infinite_ string, it would have a similar problem.
07:40:50 <kmc> i'm talking about the decision problem itself
07:40:56 <kmc> ignoring anything to do with turing machines
07:41:24 <kmc> the definition of the post correspondence problem
07:41:49 <kmc> can you stick together tiles such that the top string and the bottom string match?
07:42:01 <kmc> the top string and the bottom string are properties of the whole configuration
07:42:15 <kmc> they can get arbitrarily far out of sync and then come together at the end
07:42:28 <kmc> you can't just look at a neighborhood of 2 or n dominoes and say whether they could appear together or not
07:44:41 <kmc> this is unusually ontopic especially for me
07:44:48 <Jafet> The second dimension could be considered as the global constraint
07:44:55 <kmc> ah for the days when designing an esolang and proving it TC would get you a PhD
07:45:25 <Jafet> I think it could still get you a PhD
07:45:32 <Jafet> It just has to be more interesting than a brainfuck derivative
07:45:56 <kmc> well the first documented brainfuck-like language arose this way
07:46:30 <kmc> got to sleep, 'night all
07:57:39 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: Thanks for that --} trick, by the way. I use it all the time now. <-- yay
07:57:56 <oerjan> maybe i should use it myself some time.
07:58:10 <coppro> darn it I keep mixing up oerjan and oklopol :(
07:58:50 <oerjan> it is so e*hit by falling anvil*
08:00:10 <oklopol> yeah it's very easy to show tiling is undecidable with a seed tile, but otherwise things are complicated by the fact that if you're going to actually draw runs of a turing machine, you have to have a seed tile in every large enough pattern or there is a configuration without it
08:00:38 <oklopol> in particular things like "<kmc> maybe each tile also has a number saying how many steps left/right to the head" cannot be made to work
08:02:18 <oklopol> but the three basic techniques of making an aperiodic tiling can be easily turned into undecidability proofs
08:03:18 <oklopol> 1) robinson tilings, small set of tiles that, by a simple induction, just happen to draw nested, bigger and bigger, rectangles. you run a turing machine in every rectangle.
08:06:07 <oklopol> 2) self-similar tilesets. make a tile set that, just kinda in a brute force way, draws a periodic base tiling, on top of which, in each repeated pattern, a zone containing a turing maching and wires that connect it to its neighbors
08:06:53 <oklopol> now, the program this turing machine runs simulates a tiling like itself, with a larger computation zone (which simulates a tiling like itself with a larger computation zone, which...).
08:07:14 <oklopol> so you can imagine that's a bit hard to set up, but it's pretty neat.
08:09:13 <zzo38> I have added multiple selection questions into Internet Quiz Engine.
08:09:34 <oklopol> 3) Beatty sequences (my supervisor's technique :P), which is the only technique that isn't in any sense self-similar (although it relies on an undecidable property of turing machines whose proof is really hard).
08:09:54 <oklopol> (and which is kinda "self-similar", because it's really really recursive)
08:12:15 <oklopol> 3 is the only one whose proof doesn't require a horribly long case analysis which is omitted in all expositions that are under 30 pages.
08:13:51 <oklopol> the paper that does 2 just basically says what i said, plus they explain why a turing machine has time to set up this recursion.
08:15:27 <zzo38> Now I can circle item #014 on my comparison chart.
08:15:52 <oklopol> the original proof of 1 is like 50 pages, but it can be done in a less painful way
08:16:23 <zzo38> I also corrected a few other mistakes in the program, such as one mistake in the logic for doing time limits.
08:16:26 <oklopol> it's perhaps the easiest to check completely, in the sense that 3 requires you to check an old result on turing machines which everyone is afraid of
08:16:50 <zzo38> Why is everyone afraid of?
08:17:19 <Bike> because god is here
08:19:34 <oklopol> because it's a program written in 1966.
08:19:51 <oklopol> in the ancient programming language called the turing machine.
08:21:07 <oklopol> http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2269811?uid=3737976&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21101682430267
08:22:11 <Bike> a CS paper on JSTOR, now that is old
08:29:55 <kmc> oklopol: wow
08:35:53 <oklopol> PCP is also something that's studied a lot in our university
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08:36:28 <oklopol> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_correspondence_problem halava and hirvensalo are from here, salomaa is too but he's a bit old now.
08:36:57 <oerjan> <shachaf> Bike: Indentation in Haskell translates to {} and ; and () <-- no () actually
08:37:27 <oklopol> so you can imagine it was hard to keep the lecture that short
08:38:05 <shachaf> I mentioned () because GHC gives indentation errors on unmatched (
08:38:12 <shachaf> But it's not actually part of the layout.
08:38:57 <oklopol> the PCP undecidability proof is much easier than the tiling thing
08:39:24 <oklopol> tilings in general have the problem that it's fun to come up with tilings with some properties, but they are roughly as hard to verify as they are to come up with.
08:39:28 * oerjan recalls how PCP can be encoded in the ambiguity problem of CF grammars
08:39:45 <oklopol> well you can just directly draw a sequence of turing machine configurations on the top row
08:40:05 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:3: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
08:40:16 <oklopol> you have the row under it actually contain the bottoms of tiles which are currently writing the next configuration on the top row
08:40:22 <oklopol> so you can compare two rows locally
08:40:44 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't think ghc is trying to be too clever about understanding where indentation makes sense
08:41:47 <oklopol> so, anyway i have two colleagues which are, independently, constructing more and more complicated tile sets solving more and more complicated problems, which are harder and harder to explain. i try to stay away from that stuff.
08:42:09 <oklopol> i mean both are constructing a single tiling, which they still haven't published.
08:42:28 <oerjan> a mathematical black hole? :)
08:43:20 <oklopol> although we are publishing a paper with some tiling constructions now, but they are just fun little geometric things, so there's a chance someone reads them.
08:44:26 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:13: parse error on input `in'
08:45:00 <oklopol> there's a result that the if S is a countable Pi^0_1 set with cantor-bendixson rank \lambda, then there's a tile set with countably many tilings whose cantro-bendixson ran is \lambda+12. we do \lambda+5 so it's revolutionary.
08:46:13 <oklopol> plus we do some other things
08:46:54 <oklopol> cantor-bendixson ranks are awesome really
08:47:38 <oklopol> did i mention that in the conference proceedings of automata 2012, we wrote that as cantor-bendixon throughout
08:47:57 <oerjan> <kmc> otherwise the rules are pretty simple. You remember the column of the first token after 'do' 'let' 'case', or 'in'. [...] <-- of, not case, at least before they introduced lambdacase
08:48:30 <oklopol> i'll go do some game programming now.
08:51:49 <Bike> you are bad at sleeping
08:52:04 <kmc> oklopol: that stuff about aperiodic tilings is very interesting, thanks for explaining in some more detail & pointing the way to find more info
08:52:32 <kmc> a variety of factors have conspired to keep me awake
08:52:38 <oklopol> no prob. it's one of my favorite topic in the world. laso i'm bad at leaving.
08:53:28 <kmc> you really hate drums
08:53:31 <kmc> "drums did 9/11"
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08:53:57 <shachaf> far away from the boom boom boom of the drummer / it was midsummer / what a bummer / clementine
08:54:02 <monqy> drums are ok in moderation. when used with restraint. when supervised by an adult
08:54:25 <monqy> irresponsible adults do not count
08:54:46 <kmc> maybe there should be background checks and a waiting period to buy drums
08:55:00 <monqy> this is a good idea
08:55:01 <shachaf> drums don't keep people awake. people keep people awake
08:55:36 <monqy> this reminds me of the time i was trying to get to sleep but people kept firing fireworks. I was in ohio not california. I don't have that problem here.
08:55:45 <monqy> now that's nasty!!!
08:56:02 <shachaf> btw my rhyme is like the one from that one song by cole porter
08:56:06 <shachaf> which is really by tom lehrer
08:56:13 <shachaf> just in case you didn't notice
08:56:57 <kmc> ah yeah in summer 2011 my neighbors spent the entire month of june setting off fireworks
08:57:12 <shachaf> monqy: what were you doing in ohio??
08:57:17 <kmc> i was afraid that for july 4 they would blow up my entire house with a fuel air bomb or something
08:57:38 <monqy> shachaf: non-immediate family
08:57:56 <shachaf> i was in ohio once but just at an airport
08:58:37 <kmc> one of the factors is that the circuit breakr for my room keeps tripping and i have to get up and reset it
08:58:56 <kmc> there is not much load on this circuit at all, and nothing has changed recently
08:59:19 <kmc> although partially I must take my housemate's word for that; perhaps he's started clandestine marijuana cultivation in his room
08:59:26 <kmc> seems unlikely tho
08:59:33 <kmc> i think it is a bad arc fault detector
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09:05:36 <shachaf> Uh oh, your housemate might be engaging in interstate commerce?
09:06:21 <kmc> yeah, that's trouble
09:08:33 <kmc> good goatkcd today
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09:36:02 <kmc> actually this is kind of an unusual xkcd
09:36:39 <kmc> usually the drawing is the joke and the text underneath is an unfunny explanation of the joke
09:36:42 <kmc> this time it's the other way around
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09:44:00 <kmc> going to try again to sleep
09:45:18 <shachaf> Who's going to reset the circuit breaker without you?
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10:09:31 <Jafet> Since when did xkcd have only one alt text
10:09:52 <Jafet> (oglaf still has two)
10:10:42 <shachaf> Not that I read qwantz.com
10:11:15 <olsner> how do you see the second alt text? hover a second mouse over the image?
10:13:20 <nortti> hover 2 mouses over the image?
10:13:50 <shachaf> olsner: I'm not sure whether you're a cheap plastic imitation of oerjan or of oklopol.
10:16:00 <olsner> shachaf: one of my alt texts has the answer
10:17:26 <shachaf> And the other one has the other answer?
10:18:17 <olsner> the other ones have the other answers, yes... in fact, they all have different answers
10:21:35 <FreeFull> olsner: What you get when you hover the mouse over the image is the title text, not the alt text
10:21:35 <FreeFull> alt text is what displays if the image doesn't load
10:21:36 <FreeFull> To read the alt text on oglaf, you have to either read it quickly before the comic loads, or look at the source
10:23:35 <fizzie> Or, you know, use a browser that doesn't display images.
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10:56:25 <lambdabot> Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
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11:10:49 <FreeFull> http://gergo.erdi.hu/blog/2013-01-19-a_brainfuck_cpu_in_fpga/
11:11:23 <FreeFull> fizzie: Why would a browser that doesn't display images load the image?
11:14:13 <monqy> FreeFull: pretty sure the point is that it doesn't display images, so you can see their alt texts
11:15:29 <FreeFull> monqy: You still want to see the comics though
11:16:46 <Vorpal> speaking of alt texts. I can't read them on the phone (at least not in chrome for android), which makes reading xkcd from the phone totally pointless
11:16:57 <oerjan> i hear you don't want to see oglaf. at least not while at work.
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12:58:22 <Vorpal> Huh, why do I have a sit0 interface stuck in "UP" state with the addresses ::192.168.1.40/96 and ::127.0.0.1/96. ifconfig sit0 down does nothing...
13:01:48 <Vorpal> RTNETLINK answers: Operation not supported
13:02:00 <Vorpal> well that explains why it didn't work, no idea why it didn't work though
13:02:28 <Taneb> <Vorpal> well that explains why it didn't work, no idea why it didn't work though
13:02:34 <Taneb> Think about what you just said
13:03:12 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Away.
13:04:52 <Vorpal> Taneb|Away, okay "no idea why it isn't supported though"
13:04:59 <Vorpal> that is a better way to express that
13:20:20 -!- Taneb|Away has changed nick to Taneb.
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13:36:53 <Taneb> @tell ais523 That totally sucks!
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13:38:38 <c00kiemon5ter> if you give tmux to bind S it binds 's', but if you give it S-<some-key> it binds 'Shift' <.<
13:41:15 <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
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14:34:02 <Taneb> Well, I think I've found someone who had the same problem as I do
14:43:18 <Vorpal> Deewiant, what if you want a lower case s specifically?
14:44:01 <Vorpal> Deewiant, lowercase s and a 8 at the same time, s-8?
14:44:12 <Vorpal> wouldn't that not work according to c00kiemon5ter ?
14:44:34 <Deewiant> I don't think you can bind chords in any case...
14:46:51 <c00kiemon5ter> there is no distinction between lowercase and uppercase
14:47:59 <Deewiant> In :list-keys I have some different bindings for lower and upper case: D, L, and U are different from d, l, and u
14:55:13 <FreeFull> c00kiemon5ter: C-A would be with shift
14:56:24 <FreeFull> tmux supports unicode above the BMP
14:56:47 <FreeFull> tmux supports horizontal splitting without any patches
14:57:41 <c00kiemon5ter> BSD right, it is mainly developed by the OpenBSD people
14:58:09 <FreeFull> http://sourceforge.net/p/tmux/tmux-code/ci/master/tree/FAQ Read the first question
15:01:51 <elliott> Deewiant: Hah, what's your $TERM?
15:02:04 <Deewiant> elliott: rxvt-unicode-256color
15:02:18 <Deewiant> elliott: Doesn't fit in the char[20] of older screens
15:02:25 <Deewiant> elliott: It was fixed by making it char[40] IIRC
15:03:38 <c00kiemon5ter> the one thing screen does that I would like in tmux is re-painting the terminal according to the new size
15:04:07 <c00kiemon5ter> ie if you resize a terminal running screen, which had a wrapped line, then the line unfolds
15:04:46 <c00kiemon5ter> if you shrink the terminal with tmux, the line will be hidden,
15:11:25 <nortti> "Bravo! You have just written Forth in Brainfuck written in Forth."
15:33:06 <Vorpal> annoying that you can't use ping when testing a -m owner --uid style iptables rule
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16:19:46 <Sgeo> I should learn Coq
16:20:04 <Sgeo> If I can get over my prejudices of "I only want to learn languages that I can write general purpose programs in!"
16:20:24 <ais523> Sgeo: general purpose programs are actually quite hard to write, and not very useful when you do
16:20:31 <ais523> programs that do something in particular tend to be more useful
16:20:37 <ais523> and often you can find a language to fit them
16:21:02 <Sgeo> ais523, do implementations of computer languages count as general purpose programs?
16:21:42 <elliott> there are some general purpose prorgams written in coq
16:22:05 <ais523> Sgeo: yeah, that struck me as the most obvious way to write a general purpose program
16:27:36 <Sgeo> What sort of languages get used in life-or-death situations like medical equipment?
16:27:39 <Sgeo> Statically typed?
16:28:38 <kmc> Sgeo: http://www.foo.be/docs/tpj/issues/vol2_1/tpj0201-0004.html
16:28:44 <ais523> Sgeo: random win32 stuff written in C++, that can't be updated ever because only one version of it was certified
16:29:16 <kmc> yeah lab equipment (NMR machine etc) is often infested with malware because they can't upgrade the Windows XP instal
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16:29:32 <kmc> the network admins just firewall it off as best they can
16:29:37 <ais523> kmc: XP? 2000 is more common, or 3.1
16:29:39 <Sgeo> kmc, seen it, I assume it's not real based on the comment about "April, toward the beginning of the month."
16:30:24 <elliott> Sgeo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
16:34:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Have I mentioned the Berkely accelerator radiotherapy thing lately?
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17:25:37 <Sgeo> What's the canonical thing to do in an imperative language like Smalltalk for the use cases that list comprehensions have? Nested loops with the innermost one writing to an object stream?
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17:30:49 <olsner> use a different language?
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17:32:39 <Sgeo> There's an implementation of amb for Smalltalk, I guess that could be used
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18:27:24 <Bike> 2identify 14cki
18:27:25 <lambdabot> Bike: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
18:27:41 <oerjan> _someone_ needs to change their password hth
18:28:25 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services).
18:28:56 <elliott> @tell bike sorry i couldn't stop myself
18:29:12 <oerjan> elliott: it is so easy
18:29:36 -!- Bike has joined.
18:30:17 <Bike> thanks for that.
18:30:17 <lambdabot> Bike: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
18:31:59 <oerjan> elliott is np-complete
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18:57:05 <Vorpal> anyway "14cki" is such a terribly short password anyway.
18:57:59 <Bike> i'm not exactly concerned about IRC security.
18:59:11 <Vorpal> what the hell, if I su to another user I can't run screen -r since the pts of my terminal is not readable by that user
18:59:17 <Vorpal> that is kind of stupid
18:59:17 <elliott> i tried to ghost you immediately after that line
18:59:21 <elliott> would have been pretty good imo
18:59:47 <Vorpal> hm how do I deal with this...
19:00:14 <Bike> i mean i have no reputation or anything, the only thing i need a password for is for protecting the sanctity of bikes, and avoiding being disconnected by services by Bastards Like You
19:02:26 <Bike> Some things in life are important.
19:02:49 <Vorpal> heh, I connected a computer to a public IP and forgot to turn off logging of rejections in iptables. Pretty spammy result even with the rate limiting that is going on
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19:13:29 <Vorpal> elliott, have you any experience with either nfs or cifs (samba)? If so, is either of them significantly better/faster/less work/...?
19:13:39 <Vorpal> going to be between two linux boxes so...
19:14:11 <oerjan> <elliott> they are all crap
19:14:30 <Vorpal> probably we should use something from plan9 instead indeed but...
19:16:09 <Sgeo> Do IDEs have a negative impact on ability to metaprogram?
19:16:26 <Sgeo> doesNotUnderstand is often discouraged in Smalltalk I think because it negatively impacts tooling?
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19:17:13 <FreeFull> I can't say, never used an IDE much
19:17:20 <Bike> maybe you could ask a Ruby person
19:17:29 <olsner> IIUC, most people like it better when they're understood
19:17:30 <FreeFull> I think last time I've used an IDE was when I was looking at writing GBA code
19:17:37 <Bike> they apparently use those methods that get called when there's no method, a lot
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19:27:58 <Taneb> Well, this situation sucks mildly less
19:30:37 <Vorpal> Taneb, also are you connected as root, or did you just set the name to that
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19:35:13 <Taneb> I've managed to boot to a start-up disk thing
19:35:17 <Taneb> And connect to the internet
19:35:24 <Taneb> I can live like this, for a short while
19:37:01 <Vorpal> Taneb, what is going on?
19:37:28 <Taneb> I should never be allowed admin access on a computer
19:37:45 <Taneb> Tried to upgrade Ubuntu
19:39:49 <Taneb> Is Arch any better?
19:39:52 <Taneb> Because Arch hates me
19:39:54 <Phantom_Hoover> although i guess there was that time arch managed to break the kernel startup sequence or something
19:40:48 <Taneb> Gentoo also hates me
19:41:03 <Taneb> Haiku's alright about me but hates my wifi adapter
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19:45:14 <Taneb> Unfortunately, on this setup, I can't mess with my computer without leaving IRC
19:52:57 <Vorpal> <Taneb> Is Arch any better? <-- try debian?
19:53:15 <Vorpal> Taneb, anyway, wont boot in what way
19:53:22 <Vorpal> at what point does it fail?
19:53:41 <Vorpal> grub? kernel? finding root file system? in user space?
19:53:42 <Taneb> I can't recall off the top of my head, and I'd have to leave and come back to tell you
19:54:04 <Vorpal> Taneb, did it find the root file system?
19:54:26 <Taneb> I can, on Grub, say "Advanced options => root terminal"
19:54:27 <Vorpal> if it didn't you probably need to ajust the kernel command line in the grub config
19:54:36 <Taneb> But that ends up read only
19:54:46 <Taneb> But I can see all my files
19:54:51 <Vorpal> Taneb, you can remount / by doing mount -o rw,remount /
19:55:08 <Vorpal> rather than something grub specific
19:55:38 <Taneb> Right, I'll try that in a moment
19:55:53 <Vorpal> Taneb, anyway have you turned off boot splash image and such, they tend to hide vital info
19:56:00 <Vorpal> I never use that stuff thus
19:56:45 <Taneb> I'll try that suggestion then I'll film the boot process and borrow someone else's computer and upload it to youtube and link you
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19:57:06 <Vorpal> Taneb, well, I can look at that tomorrow evening at the earliest
19:57:15 <Vorpal> @tell Taneb, well, I can look at that tomorrow evening at the earliest. Going to sleep shortly.
19:57:48 <Vorpal> that I told "Tanb," right?
19:58:19 <Vorpal> @tell Taneb Well, I can look at that tomorrow evening at the earliest. Going to sleep shortly. Leave me a message with lambdabot. By the time you read this, I will be disconnected from my bouncer.
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20:11:41 <elliott> "He also confirmed that Mega had one million users on day one and said that “we cannot be stopped.” They’re re-enacting the arrest now – helicopters are everywhere. They just reenacted the arrest from last year. Currently a lot of dubstep, explosions and more."
20:14:28 <Sgeo> I just want my files that existed only on MegaUpload and my still yet to be recovered HD back
20:16:14 <Vorpal> elliott, what is this about helicopters? Megaupload fan fiction?
20:16:27 <elliott> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/01/20/kim-dotcom-officially-launches-the-new-mega-at-an-insane-press-event/
20:16:50 <Vorpal> wow that is one fat person on the screen
20:16:55 <elliott> Sgeo: I confidently predict that will never help.
20:16:58 <elliott> Sgeo: I confidently predict that will never happen.
20:17:33 <Sgeo> I could in theory recover the HD
20:17:56 <Vorpal> elliott, auto correct on a mobile device? Or what happened there?
20:19:16 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
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20:31:46 <elliott> "Megaupload would pay certain customers to upload their files but Dotcom explains that there were limitations to ensure that the rewards program was not used for piracy. He explains that users were not rewarded for files that were more than 100 MBs: “have you ever downloaded a movie larger…they don’t exist.”"
20:33:01 <elliott> Bike: Dubstep and explosions, man.
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20:38:18 <Taneb> Right, does "microcode: failed to load file amd-ucode/microcode_amd.bin" mean much to anyone
20:38:18 <lambdabot> Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:39:27 <Bike> that's a hell of an error
20:39:28 <Vorpal> This sucks, xorg won't do keycodes > 255, which my keyboard generates for some of the extra fancy keys (it is a MS Natural ergonomic keyboard).
20:39:47 <Vorpal> oh well, guess I can't use that group of buttons then
20:39:48 <Taneb> Or "kvm: disabled by bios"
20:40:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, I think your bootleg chinese GPU may have booted its last leg.
20:40:09 <Vorpal> <Taneb> Right, does "microcode: failed to load file amd-ucode/microcode_amd.bin" mean much to anyone <-- well
20:40:22 <Vorpal> and it definitely shouldn't be from the kernel itself
20:40:26 <Vorpal> maybe from the init ram fs
20:40:57 <Vorpal> <Taneb> Or "kvm: disabled by bios" <-- unlikely to fatal except to hardware virtualization
20:41:22 <Vorpal> I *think* the microcode is for the CPU, but if such it shouldn't be fatal
20:41:32 <Vorpal> if it is for the GPU.. hm not sure
20:41:58 <Vorpal> Taneb, do you have an AMD CPU (check /proc/cpuinfo) and/or an AMD GPU (check lspci)
20:42:28 <Taneb> I'm pretty sure the CPU is AMD
20:42:59 <Taneb> There's also "sp5100_tco: mmio address 0xfec000f0 already in use"
20:43:27 <Vorpal> google suggests "CONFIG_SP5100_TCO: AMD/ATI SP5100 TCO Timer/Watchdog"
20:44:06 <Taneb> I... don't think so
20:44:24 <Vorpal> Taneb, what is the last message before the crash?
20:44:58 <Taneb> The kvm disabled by bios one
20:45:22 <Taneb> Then there's just a blinking cursor in the top-left of a black screen
20:45:41 <Taneb> It restarts on C+A+D and powers down on the power button
20:45:49 <Vorpal> Taneb, does it accept any other input?
20:45:59 <Taneb> Not as far as I am aware
20:46:15 <Taneb> By which I mean "probably not, I've tried a whole bunch"
20:46:22 <Vorpal> Taneb, and it stayed like that for how long? Maybe you just need to wait a couple of seconds?
20:46:48 <Vorpal> or I guess you did that already?
20:46:49 <Taneb> 3 minutes until I stopped filming
20:46:52 <Taneb> Then about 10 after that
20:46:56 <Vorpal> then it is definitely broken
20:47:06 <Vorpal> I was thinking more like 5-10 seconds or such
20:47:36 <Vorpal> Taneb, yeah, copy your files from the disk to an external hdd or whatever, then reinstall. Or restore from your last backup
20:47:55 <Vorpal> Taneb, eh, it is PROBABLY fixable
20:48:02 <Vorpal> but I have no clue how
20:48:11 <Taneb> Heh, thanks anyway
20:48:14 <Vorpal> Taneb, you could try #ubuntu or the ubuntu forums
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20:49:11 <Vorpal> Taneb, the way I see it, it might not be worth spending days debugging when you could just reinstall it and restore your backed up package list. At least if you have fast internet to download it all again
20:49:44 <Taneb> Decent internet, but the only computer I can really get to it from is my family computer from 2006 running XP
20:49:46 <Vorpal> and your /home/whatever could just be copied across as is (make sure to fix the uid/gid though)
20:50:06 <Vorpal> Taneb, surely you have direct internet access from the broken computer?
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20:50:25 <Vorpal> is there a household without wifi anywhere
20:50:28 <Taneb> That's what I'm using right now
20:50:34 <Vorpal> Taneb, wifi can be quite fast
20:50:41 <Vorpal> faster than my ADSL at least
20:50:48 <Vorpal> won't match up to fibre of course
20:52:15 <Taneb> If anyone tries to work out what kind of a person I am from the videos on my camera, they'll have no idea
20:53:11 <Taneb> Video of three people, none of whom are me, two of whom are in Homestuck hoodies, the third in an angry birds hat, fighting over some glasses
20:53:27 <Taneb> Video of someone who is not me getting ready to sledge, then sledging down a hill
20:53:36 <Taneb> Video of someone's computer failing to boot up
20:54:11 <Vorpal> Taneb, well it tells me the person was, or knew someone who was, a linux user
20:54:23 <Vorpal> also is probably into geeky stuff
20:54:25 <zzo38> Only three videos? Yes, then I suppose they won't figure out a lot.
20:54:30 <Vorpal> given the homestuck stuff
20:54:40 <Taneb> zzo38: I got the camera for Christmas
20:54:52 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, or that yes
20:54:59 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover: seeing as all the people in that video were female, that's looking worryingly likely
20:55:22 <Taneb> I'd imagine at least one
20:55:34 <Taneb> But I don't really know the midlands
20:57:15 <Phantom_Hoover> we tried making our own hill out of snow but it just wasn't the same
20:57:22 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I live in one of the flatter regions of Sweden too
20:57:50 <Vorpal> doesn't vary more than maybe 5-10 meters around here
20:58:22 <Vorpal> I know one place where you can sledge near here. But that is about it
20:58:25 <Taneb> ...Hexham's built on a hill
20:58:54 <Taneb> Somewhat like Rome in that respect
20:59:21 <Taneb> Which is built on the famous seven hills of Rome, plus a few more
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21:17:05 <Sgeo> o.O Assembler code in Smalltalk
21:31:24 <Fiora> Bike: just, gosh, the whole cmubash site
21:31:29 <Fiora> "Your mom is so fat, she sat on a binary tree and turned it into a linked list in constant time!"
21:32:01 <Fiora> I feel terrible for laughing
21:38:13 <kmc> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBESuMICYAAvNn9.jpg:large
21:38:49 <Bike> what in the hell
21:40:46 <ion> kmc: Seems legit.
21:41:27 <kmc> is there some punchy term for "things that look like graphs but are actually totally meaningless decoration"?
21:42:08 <Fiora> http://benfry.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/piratesarecool4.gif I'm reminded of that
21:42:11 <fizzie> I've heard a word for that.
21:42:19 <fizzie> But I can't recall what it was.
21:42:34 <kmc> Fiora: that graph is a lot more legit
21:43:03 <kmc> it has actual labeled axes measuring things that could plausibly be quantified
21:43:32 <kmc> though i don't believe that there were only 17 pirates in year 2000
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21:43:46 <Sgeo> Quantity of the users?
21:44:01 <Bike> kmc: uh it says "approxiate" right there hello
21:44:02 <ion> http://lesantint.com/leng/rmx_advantages.html
21:44:22 <fizzie> The only word that comes to mind right now is "chartjunk", but that's a different thing. (It's the visual cruft in a chart that doesn't contribute anything.)
21:44:28 <ion> http://lesantint.com/leng/energy_source.html
21:44:51 <Sgeo> What is "deciphering"?
21:45:02 <kmc> oh my god these are great
21:45:04 <Sgeo> Deciphering when you have legitimate access?
21:45:10 <Bike> fuck it's a bmp
21:45:30 <Sgeo> In which case, I don't think you want slow systems unless it's a password hash
21:45:37 <Sgeo> Especially as slow as it seems to be trying to imply
21:45:49 <kmc> "The deciphering is conducted with the help of SUPER COMPUTERS"
21:46:05 <Bike> Work of a prototype of the generator is described by absolutely new class of mathematical functions developed by us in the course of studying of physical vacuum. Our workings out allow to create generators of energy of any capacity:... мcW, uW, W, kW, MW, GW, TW...
21:46:14 <Sgeo> Or do they mean illegitimately, in which case they don't describe by what mechanism (brute forcing, or what?)
21:46:46 <Bike> sgeo. this is garbage. don't even try.
21:46:51 <fizzie> See how many K's RMX has compared to banks?
21:47:14 <Bike> what the hell is мcW supposed to be anyway
21:47:28 <Bike> is uW supposed to be µW? there are just so many questions
21:47:42 <Sgeo> It's "Absolute cryptographic protection"
21:47:45 <fizzie> Bike: Millicentiwatts?
21:47:54 <Bike> the little M is cyrillic.
21:48:03 <Sgeo> Didn't know anything other than one-time pads were absolute
21:48:09 <fizzie> Yes, but it's still a small m.
21:48:17 <Sgeo> And if they are using one-time pads, how is anything representing a time to break in not "infinity"?
21:48:24 <Fiora> http://lesantint.com/images/energy_eng.JPG
21:48:49 <shachaf> "This circuit was performed by Tesla in 1933. The source of electrical power was developed and Tesla installed it into the car the internal combustion engine of which was eliminated and replaced by с и заменен на asynchronous motor. Tesla drove this car for two weeks."
21:48:57 <fizzie> Sgeo: Well, I mean, "THE PECULIARITY OF ABSOLUTE RMX SYSTEM CONISISTS IN THE FACT THAT IT CAN BE DECIPHERED NEVER AND BY NOBODY AT ANY LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT OF A SCIENCE AND COMPUTER FACILITIES !!!"
21:49:07 <fizzie> That does sound pretty absolute.
21:49:13 <Bike> shachaf: maybe because tesla was about as crazy as this, only also competent.
21:49:44 <kmc> "RMX is fully protects any computer network. It is impossible to consider the data from a network as direct connection or attack of hackers even by means of the super-computer. Absolute protection (hardware - program execution)."
21:50:49 <kmc> Fiora: o_O
21:50:55 <kmc> collapsing the false vacuum for fun and profit
21:51:21 <fizzie> Battle Programmer Shirase doesn't even *need* the super computer, though. I've seen this in a video.
21:51:32 <Fiora> There's something really amusing about "diagrams" that don't actually explain anything at all
21:51:56 <Bike> they help explain how out of it the creator is, at least.
21:53:01 <Sgeo> "Atomic spaying of any thickness."
21:53:24 <Sgeo> (from http://lesantint.com/leng/ )
21:53:39 <Sgeo> I assume they meant spraying
21:54:34 <kmc> you don't want those atoms breeding!
21:56:03 <fizzie> Responsible people spay their atoms to prevent unwanted molecules.
21:56:13 <kmc> unwanted fission
21:56:31 <fizzie> It is pretty bad if you have lots of unwanted fission going on in your house.
21:56:33 <kmc> http://lesantint.com/images/rmx8.JPG
21:57:01 <Bike> Wow, I recognize that stock photo.
21:57:03 <ion> http://lesantint.com/leng/transmutation.html a.k.a. alchemy?
21:57:18 <Bike> never seen anyone actually use it, rather than just finding it on shutterstock and laughing
21:57:20 <kmc> "FULL ABSOLUTE PROTECTION OF MICROCHIPS IMPLANTED INTO THE HUMAN !!!"
21:57:22 <fizzie> Bike: I was just about to ask whether you people thought they had posed for that picture themselves.
21:57:31 <kmc> well you can actually transmute elements
21:57:42 <kmc> "Necessity of inplantation of microchips every day is more and more obvious."
21:57:54 <kmc> http://lesantint.com/leng/rmx_application.html
21:58:01 <Bike> fizzie: nah "bad guy doing computer hacks holy shit" is common enough to make it lucrative as stock
21:58:11 <Bike> they just made it about as cheesy as possible for some reason
21:58:27 <fizzie> Maybe there's a niche for that, too.
21:58:35 <kmc> jokey articles about hackers, sure
21:58:54 <Bike> mostly i'm surprised that there's no watermark on it
21:59:00 <Bike> guess they actually paid?
21:59:38 <Bike> "THE PECULIARITY OF ABSOLUTE RMX SYSTEM CONISISTS IN THE FACT THAT IT CAN BE DECIPHERED NEVER AND BY NOBODY AT ANY LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT OF A SCIENCE AND COMPUTER FACILITIES !!!" my god
21:59:39 <kmc> http://lesantint.com/images/signalizaciya.JPG
21:59:44 <kmc> Cod-Grabber would be the worst superhero
22:00:06 <kmc> more of a basic occupation than a superpower
22:01:24 <Bike> like the fish?
22:01:26 <Bike> or the video game?
22:01:42 <kmc> i was thinking fish
22:02:06 <Bike> fish are kind of hard to grab, admittedly
22:02:29 <kmc> Bike: they probably torrented the image or photoshopped out the watermark
22:03:08 <Bike> are there really torrents of that? sad.
22:08:29 <Fiora> I guess cods are often found in torrents
22:08:53 <Bike> I only have so many underscores to put between hyphens, Fiora.
22:24:12 <Fiora> um um stop ruining horrifically awful jokes with logic
22:25:20 <elliott> thats literally what this channel is for Fiora
22:25:42 <Fiora> (I don't actually want people to stop that)
22:25:45 <Fiora> (because it's actually wonderful)_
22:25:50 <Phantom_Hoover> then you make awful jokes about the logic and the cycle continues
22:27:49 <kmc> "Makerbot chief exec Bre Pettis says the [MakerBot] printer could be used in space"
22:28:04 <kmc> also "It's my hope that if an apocalypse happens people will be ready with Makerbots, building the things they can't buy in stores."
22:28:17 <kmc> a kind of hilarious mental image of Bre trying to make plastic trinkets on generator power while armed bandits steal all his food and water and fuel and computers
22:29:43 <elliott> imo an "apocalypse" where you still have 3d printers doesn't really count
22:30:00 <kmc> get back to me when you can 3D print a working shotgun and some penicillin
22:30:23 <ion> I have seen the perfect presentation. I can die now in peace. http://lesantint.com/data/rmx_prezentation.ppt (Be sure to view it in something that can display the transitions and the animations and play the sounds.)
22:30:50 <kmc> yeah and get UFO MALWARE? no thanks
22:31:10 <kmc> russian UFO malware from the secret research base at Tunguska
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22:33:24 <kmc> elliott: if say a virus wiped out 99% of humans, governments and civilization would collapse, but individual people would still have access to advanced tech on a local scale
22:33:41 <kmc> however it might not do much good
22:34:10 <kmc> i think certain of the "maker" skills would be useful, but not so much 3D printing
22:34:38 <elliott> idk, tech relies on a lot of infrastructure
22:34:40 <monqy> zombie viruses???????
22:34:47 <elliott> I tend to assume everything will just explode
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22:34:52 <kmc> elliott: well 3D printers do and that's part of my claim
22:35:09 <kmc> but e.g. the ability to maintain basic internal combustion engines would be very useful
22:35:41 <Phantom_Hoover> you're not going to be short on spare parts though are you
22:35:50 <kmc> basic electronics skill to establish perimeter security for your base
22:36:28 <kmc> but i think the most useful skills are not part of the standard 'maker' palette
22:37:22 <kmc> medicine, agriculture, negotiation, management of small organizations in tense circumstances
22:37:44 <kmc> i shudder to think how noisebridge style government would work in an apocalypse.
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22:41:16 <kmc> obviously there is a fantasy here that 3D printers are saving the world rather than just being toys for rich people
22:41:50 <kmc> they may well eventually save the world but Bre is massively overstating the usefulness of the thing that they've made now because, well, he's a shameless self-promoter and has a business to run
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23:05:51 <Sgeo> On dice.com would I put 7 years of experience with Python even if I haven't used Python contiguously in those 7 years?
23:05:58 <Sgeo> How is experience counted?
23:06:42 <Sgeo> (Could probably put 9 but even though I've read about Python in 2003 that doesn't mean I've used it)
23:09:20 <Phantom_Hoover> i think nobody is going to do an experience audit on you
23:10:45 <Jafet> I don't think 9 years of experience in python means anything different to a year thereof
23:11:42 <Jafet> "I have experience with Seven of Nine"
23:11:57 <monqy> measurement of experience in years is silly anyway
23:12:23 <Sgeo> But it's what dice.com asks for, so
23:13:41 <kmc> these measures exist entirely to allow people who know nothing about Python to sort your résumé into the trash or not
23:13:50 <kmc> so you should pick the biggest number that is vaguley defensible
23:14:17 <kmc> once you get an actual interview they will try to assess your actual knowledge, not nitpick your choice of buzzwords and numbers on your resume
23:14:46 <kmc> you should only put a buzzword on if you are willing to talk about that thing in an interview
23:15:03 <kmc> but they are not going to be like "He said PROFICIENT in Python but he was only MODERATELY PROFICIENT! DOUBLE-FAIL!!"
23:16:07 <kmc> the part of your resume that is actually likely to come up in an interview is past experience (be it jobs, other projects, classes)
23:19:40 <kmc> your resume is an advertisement you write about yourself
23:19:50 <kmc> its purpose is to get you a phone call
23:20:01 <kmc> it's not the be-all end-all character sheet that defines whether you get the job
23:20:22 <Jafet> Isn't that because the past experience part of the résumé is where all the lies go
23:20:32 <kmc> i don't know
23:20:41 <kmc> people also lie about skills
23:21:01 <kmc> we had people come in who claimed to be 10+ years experienced C++ programmers who could not code fibonacci
23:21:13 <kmc> but it's not like we would have accepted those people if they had not lied
23:21:22 <shachaf> kmc: Clearly not enough IRC experience.
23:21:23 <kmc> lying just wasted some of their time and some of ours
23:21:30 <kmc> and maybe got them a free trip to $CITY so good for them
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23:24:29 <kmc> also I think finding jobs through dice.com etc. is not the preferred way
23:24:37 <kmc> it's much better to find jobs through your personal network if you can
23:25:13 <c00kiemon5ter> remember the kettle guy ? :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpbKGvjqsxM
23:25:27 <elliott> 23:15:03 <kmc> but they are not going to be like "He said PROFICIENT in Python but he was only MODERATELY PROFICIENT! DOUBLE-FAIL!!"
23:25:34 <elliott> kmc: imo this would be better
23:26:01 <kmc> how do you mean
23:26:06 <elliott> kmc: well it would be funnier
23:26:14 <kmc> it's not like "proficient" and "moderately proficient" mean anything objectively
23:26:26 <elliott> yes but it would be funnier
23:26:31 <kmc> yeah there's that
23:26:31 <elliott> not sure you are on my wavelength here
23:26:50 <kmc> i'm synced to the wavelength of your RMX human implant chip
23:28:20 <Fiora> moderately proficient python man, can write a bug-free fizzbuzz in a single bound
23:30:55 <Jafet> I hope not. That would imply more than one way to do it.
23:32:12 <Fiora> "faster than an overclocked prescott, more powerful than a tesla, and able to leap tall process stacks in a single bound"
23:36:26 * Fiora meant the GPU, but
23:37:59 <Sgeo> TopatoBlog! Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff Hardcover PRESS RELEASE http://goo.gl/fb/GWr8i
23:38:42 <HackEgo> Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot
23:38:42 <Sgeo> (not an update)
23:39:30 <Sgeo> http://media.tumblr.com/e975165f063347c452b9cc8810c54397/tumblr_inline_mgy6lvfbyu1qj5t81.jpg
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