00:03:36 <olsner> hmm, (>>=)(+)($), ((+)>>=($)) or (($)=<<(+))?
00:05:00 <zzo38> I think it would be like ((+)>>=id) which is like (join(+)) so it is doubling
00:05:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:05:45 <zzo38> Can you figure out any of these sequences of natural numbers?
00:05:51 <zzo38> 663, 896, 84733, 3687, 3473, 749, ...?
00:05:55 <zzo38> 17, 13, 5, 18, 20, 25, 21, ...?
00:06:03 <zzo38> 1, 6, 10, 2, 5, 4, 9, 0, 8, 50, 40, 7, 60, 80, 11, ...?
00:06:25 <zzo38> 2, 4, 6, 30, 32, 34, 36, 40, 42, 44, 46, ...?
00:06:30 <zzo38> 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 9, 5, 1, 1, 0, 55, ...?
00:06:41 <oerjan> @oeis 663, 896, 84733, 3687, 3473, 749
00:06:41 <olsner> nothing rings a bell yet
00:06:53 <oerjan> @oeis 17, 13, 5, 18, 20, 25, 21
00:06:53 <lambdabot> Numerical equivalents of the words zero, one, two, three, ... on touch-tone ...
00:06:53 <lambdabot> [9376,663,896,84733,3687,3483,749,73836,34448,6463,836,353836,893583,8447833...
00:06:54 <zzo38> Try to figure out without OEIS.
00:07:22 <oerjan> @oeis 17,13,5,18,20,25,21
00:07:27 <zzo38> O perhaps I did a typing mistake?
00:07:47 <olsner> I think oerjan is just needing to figure out how @oeis works
00:07:59 <oerjan> no 3473 should have been 3483
00:07:59 <zzo38> (I just made them up and do not remember all of them myself)
00:08:04 <oerjan> @oeis 663, 896, 84733, 3687, 3483, 749
00:08:04 <lambdabot> Numerical equivalents of the words zero, one, two, three, ... on touch-tone ...
00:08:05 <lambdabot> [9376,663,896,84733,3687,3483,749,73836,34448,6463,836,353836,893583,8447833...
00:09:05 <oerjan> zzo38: the second also seems to have a type, i get qmertyu
00:09:19 <zzo38> oerjan: I will fix that one too then.
00:09:34 <zzo38> (These are some I have on my computer.)
00:10:55 <oerjan> that 2,4,6,30 one i have this weird feeling it's been mentioned before
00:11:12 <zzo38> Maybe it has. But I forget what it means too
00:11:57 <oerjan> after 30, it seems to only skip 38 and is otherwise linear
00:17:12 <zzo38> I have read about different tests for a pseudo random number generator, of a few such as with dice and so on. Would a Fourier transform help at all?
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01:09:57 <kmc> what block cipher mode is used by OpenSSL cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256?
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01:19:59 <oerjan> hm i suspect the anonymous ip who once cleaned up IINC was me
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01:22:41 <kmc> apparently it is "TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256"
01:22:57 <kmc> it's too much to expect that all the CBC modes should have "CBC" in the unique id
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02:05:04 <kmc> ~metar KBOS
02:05:27 <kmc> well anyway we're up to +SN now
02:09:17 <kmc> why does googling -4^(1/4) produce 822,000 porn links and nothing else
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02:47:08 <zzo38> kmc: Maybe you need an equal sign afterward; did you try that?
02:48:22 <zzo38> Have anyone else in here ever using LodePNG?
02:49:03 <zzo38> (If so, in C or C++?)
02:54:53 <oerjan> `run echo test | fueue ')[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$6-%0]][~~~)*[)~(:+~~-)+1]---256%):]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][~~)<~~~(]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$7--1]][~~~)%[~~)~:(+-)(~)+-1*256]+-~)255:]~[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][))(($3~)<(]~[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~[[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][48H])~!]]]]]]]]][)[H]][33H]'
03:17:44 <zzo38> If all of the channels of VGM are enabled then how many channels will there be?
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03:45:03 <Arc_Koen> Sgeo: so basically it assumes it's a time so far back in the past that it can't compute the difference?
03:57:33 <oerjan> `run echo -n test | fueue ')[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][~~)<~~~(]~[)$--1[$8~)$4<[)$$6-%0[)]]<]~)~:~[!~)~~[)[)$--1[)~~~[)$4~[~):~~[~:~)~[)$$6-%0~~[$~])~]<~]<~<]$3~[)$~~~%~~)]<~(~~<]~~<<~[0]]<<<:]][1)[)[)$--%0[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][][))$11~<<~:(~:<]])[))(($3~)<(]]]]]~[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~[[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][48H])~!]]]]][)[H]][33H] '
03:57:44 <oerjan> `run echo -n anothertest | fueue ')[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][~~)<~~~(]~[)$--1[$8~)$4<[)$$6-%0[)]]<]~)~:~[!~)~~[)[)$--1[)~~~[)$4~[~):~~[~:~)~[)$$6-%0~~[$~])~]<~]<~<]$3~[)$~~~%~~)]<~(~~<]~~<<~[0]]<<<:]][1)[)[)$--%0[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][][))$11~<<~:(~:<]])[))(($3~)<(]]]]]~[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~[[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][48H])~!]]]]][)[H]][33H] '
03:58:39 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mlist: not found
03:58:41 <oerjan> (that was ,[>,]<. btw)
03:58:43 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hlist: not found
03:58:51 <HackEgo> Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
03:59:51 <HackEgo> /bin/ls: cannot access *list: No such file or directory \ /bin/ls: cannot access *list: No such file or directory
03:59:58 <HackEgo> bin/list \ bin/makelist \ bin/olist \ bin/slist
04:00:09 <HackEgo> echo 'tail -n +2 $0 | xargs echo; exit 0' >$1;chmod +x $1
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04:17:15 <kmc> 1 ft of snow accumulation and no sign of it slowing down
04:19:09 <shachaf> It turns out shachaf.net expired in Oct
04:19:53 <kmc> oh, you didn't before?
04:20:00 <kmc> conchafulations!
04:20:02 <shachaf> I had that jumble of letters.
04:20:19 <shachaf> Now I have to become an ISP, right?
04:21:18 <zzo38> The maximum channels in a VGM file using all chips must be a lot; especially since most of them can be doubled. Even the OPL4 alone supports 42 channels (I think it does).
04:21:59 <DH____> If you do, can I connect though you? Bound to be more reliable than Virgin Media...
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04:28:37 <kmc> can you get shach.af
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04:29:12 <shachaf> Yes, but it's $100/year or something.
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04:38:10 <zzo38> How much money do you want to pay for it?
04:42:24 <Sgeo> Presumably less than $100/year
04:42:45 <shachaf> Apparently I can get it for $78/year.
04:42:49 <Sgeo> 100$/year seems nicer to write since the unit is really $/year and nice to have the unit all together like that
04:44:35 * oerjan prepares to watch Sgeo apply that to parentheses
04:46:45 <shachaf> Yes, for the last day or something?
04:46:45 <oerjan> ok i _was_ making food for a few minutes
05:19:28 <kmc> shachaf: it's not snowing in CA is it
05:19:58 <shachaf> It was ~12° and sunny today.
05:23:34 <shachaf> Also that's a TILDE, not a HYPHEN-MINUS.
05:25:36 <shachaf> monqy: do you understand adjunctions
05:25:44 <shachaf> "i dont have much intuition for them..........."
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05:29:00 <kmc> hyphen-tilde
05:29:54 <shachaf> kmc: is dnscurve "the future"
05:31:28 <kmc> i... don't know
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05:31:54 <kmc> does 'future' here mean 'actual future' or 'epcot'
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05:33:49 <kmc> it's the "70s vision of the year 2000" theme park at disney world
05:56:12 <HackEgo> Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
05:57:14 <shachaf> Sgeo: By the way am I on the pbfcomics.com update list?
05:57:55 <oerjan> `run echo more test | fueue ')[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~[[49 33H])[))$12~[:]<<$4~~~<[)$--1[$8~)$4<[)$$6-%0[)]]<]~)~:~]~[!~)~~[)[)$--1[)~~~[)$4~[~):~~[~:~)~[)$$6-%0~~[$~])~]<~]<~<]$3~[)$~~~%~~)]<~(~~<]~~<<~[0]]<<<:]]]<<[1)]]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$7--1]][~~~)%[~~)~:(+-)(~)+-1*256]+-~)255:]~[[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][50 33H])~!]]]]][))$11~<<~:(~:<][)[[48 33H])~[)[H]]~~!]!]'
05:59:22 <oerjan> (that was +[,.] in yet a more primitive form)
06:01:12 <oerjan> (obviously "primitive" is something very different from "shorter")
06:01:52 <Sgeo> shachaf, I don't check PBF. So no.
06:01:56 <Sgeo> Thanks for telling me though
06:02:04 <quintopia> oerjan: are you eliminating instructions?
06:02:30 <oerjan> by "primitive" i mean earlier in the parsing stage
06:02:41 <shachaf> Sgeo: Please put me on the PBF list.
06:02:58 <Sgeo> There is no PBF list. There will never be a PBF list.
06:04:09 <oerjan> basically i am simulating the point just after parsing the ], while faking the final EOF read.
06:05:03 <shachaf> `run echo 'tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit' > bin/pbflist; chmod +x bin/pbflist
06:05:03 <oerjan> or ! read if you use the +[,.]!more test convention
06:05:09 <shachaf> `run echo shachaf >> bin/pbflist
06:05:20 <shachaf> `run echo Sgeo >> bin/pbflist
06:05:24 <shachaf> `run echo quintopia >> bin/pbflist
06:05:50 * Sgeo does not mind being on the PBF list. But I will not be the one to trigger it.
06:06:06 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: supermegalist: not found
06:06:38 <shachaf> `run echo 'tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit' > bin/emptylist; chmod +x bin/emptylist
06:06:49 <shachaf> `run cp bin/{empty,supermega}list
06:06:57 <shachaf> `run echo shachaf >> bin/supermegalist
06:07:52 <shachaf> `run mv bin/{supermega,sm}list
06:08:05 <shachaf> `run echo $'monqy\nelliott' >> bin/smlist
06:08:22 <monqy> unfortunately super mega has not updated
06:09:24 <shachaf> monqy: should i get a odmaininame in afghanistan
06:15:19 <monqy> super mega resonates with me deeply at a personal level
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06:45:38 <oerjan> `run echo also test | fueue '):[)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][))(($3~)<(]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$7--1]][~~~)%[~~)~:(+-)(~)+-1*256]+-~)255:]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][~~)<~~~(]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$6-%0]][~~~)*[)~(:+~~-)+1]---256%):]~]][)~~[)[[50 33H])~[)[H]]~~!]!][]!]!]!]!]!]!]!][[0]:[[0]<:
06:45:42 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
06:46:53 <oerjan> just a little too long
06:48:12 <oerjan> `run echo also test | fueue '):[)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][))(($3~)<(]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$7--1]][~~~)%[~~)~:(+-)(~)+-1*256]+-~)255:]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~]][)~~[)[[50 33H])~[)[H]]~~!]!][]!]!]!]!]!][[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][49 33H])~!][48 33H] '
07:00:37 <oerjan> `run echo also test | fueue '):[)~~[~:~~~)<[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$7--1]][~~~)%[~~)~:(+-)(~)+-1*256]+-~)255:]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~]][)[[50 33H])~[)[H]]~~!]!]!]!]!][[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][49 33H])~!][48 33H] '
07:04:18 <oerjan> `run echo also test | fueue '):[)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][))(($3~)<(]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$6-%0]][~~~)*[)~(:+~~-)+1]---256%):]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~]][)[[50 33H])~[)[H]]~~!]!]!]!]!]!][[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][49 33H])~!][48 33H] '
07:07:20 <shachaf> monqy: why do subtyping people say covariant instead of monotonic
07:07:33 <shachaf> "wouldnt that be a more obvious" name
07:07:33 <oerjan> `run echo also test | fueue '):[)~~[~:~~~)<[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][~~)<~~~(]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~]][)[[50 33H])~[)[H]]~~!]!]!]!]!]!][[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][49 33H])~!][48 33H] '
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07:09:58 <monqy> shachaf: probably they sometimes say monotonic/antimonotonic? but i don't know "why" they say covariant/contravariant
07:10:37 <shachaf> imo the category theory words should be monotonic too............
07:10:42 <shachaf> everyone knows what that means
07:10:51 <shachaf> and covariant/contravariant are confusing
07:10:57 <shachaf> they both start with co!!!!
07:14:47 <shachaf> monqy: does "monotone functor"/ "monotonic functor" mean anything in category theory
07:18:16 <quintopia> "You have a problem and decide to use threads. have two Now problems. you"
07:30:26 * pikhq reaches new levels of laziness...
07:30:54 <pikhq> IRC from bed is a very different experience.
07:30:59 <pikhq> Profoundly, profoundly lazy.
07:31:04 <monqy> it sounds uncomfortable
07:31:52 <pikhq> Wireless keyboard to my computer that's a mere few feet away.
07:31:59 <pikhq> It's just damned lazy.
07:32:59 <pikhq> Tiny bit hard to read though.
07:33:43 <pikhq> I'm pretty sure I need to get an eye appointment done sometime, though, so...
07:34:00 <pikhq> My refractive error has changed somewhat.
07:35:18 <oklopol> my previous apartment was slightly tiny
07:35:41 <oklopol> so my bed was my kitchen table and my computer chair and also everything else
07:36:27 <oklopol> now i don't even have a computer in the bed*room* :(
07:36:54 <pikhq> Why, the bedroom's the only space that is my own.
07:37:23 <pikhq> Mother's basement.
07:37:26 <oklopol> my bedroom isn't really mine either :(
07:37:57 <monqy> i have a bedroom but i sleep in a little side-room on the floor
07:38:43 <pikhq> One of these days, I will move out, and it will be delightful.
07:38:43 <monqy> better ventillation
07:39:38 <oklopol> so last night i realized how to solve a problem with an article. then i slept for 9 hours. i have no idea what the solution was.
07:39:44 <pikhq> Though probably not alone per se; it would seem most likely, given life, that it'd just be me moving in with my girlfriend.
07:40:12 <oklopol> do realize you will not have a bedroom then.
07:40:39 <pikhq> Not to myself, no.
07:40:44 <shachaf> oklopol: The solution was: sleep for 9 hours.
07:40:49 <oklopol> it's like living with your mother but she sleeps in your bed and occasionally asks that you help with the cooking.
07:41:42 <oklopol> shachaf: oh that's actually a good point. maybe i should consider thinking about the problem instead of trying to remember last night.
07:43:08 <pikhq> For starters, my mom is not quite nerdy enough to be video chatting with me while playing a video game. :P
07:43:59 <oklopol> yes and the sex is usually much less awkward
07:44:09 <Sgeo> http://web.mit.edu/jgross/Public/brahm-lullaby-quirrel.mp3
07:44:54 <pikhq> Mechanics are also rather different, I imagine, but that's just my particular life circumstances being strange.
07:45:40 <oklopol> Sgeo: i'm starting to feel drowsy
07:45:46 <pikhq> She's trans. *Pretty* sure my mom isn't. :P
07:46:34 <quintopia> pikhq: you should check that. your mom i mean.
07:47:03 <oklopol> my ex had a trans girlfriend for a while
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07:47:47 <oklopol> or maybe not girlfriend and more like friend.
07:47:49 <pikhq> Other way 'round would be a boyfriend. *shrug*
07:48:47 <oklopol> and maybe not friend and more like acquaintance.
07:50:22 <zzo38> I don't like wireless computer so I have the keyboard, mouse, internet, display, printer, etc, is wired.
07:50:45 <zzo38> The router supports wireless but that is used to connect my brother's computer; my own is wired to the router.
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07:55:14 <zzo38> Do you know when the next Kaiji anime season is being released with subtitles?
07:55:34 <shachaf> zzo38: which comic lists do you want to be on
07:57:21 <zzo38> shachaf: Akagi, and Kaiji.
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08:16:41 <zzo38> What is your opinions on neutral monism?
08:18:58 <Sgeo> I'm a materialist
08:19:18 <Sgeo> (or, arguable, some other term that encompasses the fact that energy does exist)
08:20:48 <zzo38> Of course energy exists but it is not necessarily fundamental. (Or is that not what you mean by "energy"?)
08:22:32 <Sgeo> "sociologists have studied [MissingNo.'s] impact on players."
08:22:45 <Sgeo> zzo38, by energy I mean the sort of energy that the Sun emits
08:23:11 <zzo38> Sgeo: So same as I mean, the energy described by physics.
08:23:20 <Sgeo> Not the word used as a metaphor for spirit by people who misunderstand science and wonder "where does the energy go when someone dies"
08:25:32 <Sgeo> "It really says something about Pokmon fans that they took what is a potentially game-ruining glitch and used it as a shortcut to level up their Pokmon,"
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08:38:21 <HackEgo> Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
08:40:14 <pikhq> Sgeo: That's still philosophical materialism.
08:40:32 <pikhq> "Materialism" is more-or-less the standpoint that physics governs all.
08:40:46 <pikhq> That's not how it'd be phrased usually, but that gets the sense of it better.
08:41:41 <zzo38> Physics is made of mathematics.
08:42:18 <Sgeo> What, Tegmark-style?
08:42:36 <zzo38> What is Tegmark-style?
08:42:44 <Sgeo> Hmm, does a Tegmark multiverse go against materialism?
08:43:04 <pikhq> I do not know enough about the implications of that to answer.
08:43:30 <pikhq> (I know what you refer to, I just don't know the full implications to a degree I could answer)
08:45:03 <zzo38> OK, I see what Tegmark classification is.
08:45:11 <Sgeo> http://space.mit.edu/home/tegmark/multiverse.jpg
08:45:16 <Sgeo> In particular level 4
08:46:01 <zzo38> I looked it up in Wikipedia and it is something same as what I have read in a magazine article once.
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12:24:34 <Sgeo> Language idea: A language where you write CPS-style code manually, but the syntax of the language is such that it feels natural
12:26:50 <oklopol> how much heat can a human handle?
12:27:40 <oklopol> 100 celsius is just fine even with high humidity, but if you put something in 200 celsius it's black after 20 minutes
12:28:24 <oklopol> well perhaps 20 minutes in high humidity 100 celsius is also dangerous, we don't have a very good sauna here so my intuition is not very calibrated.
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12:58:46 <fizzie> I think there is some research on that.
13:00:20 <fizzie> It's like 67 °C in the sauna in our building, though.
13:01:38 <Sgeo> Aww where's jconn?
13:02:01 <Sgeo> jconn is also not in #jsoftware
13:05:00 <fizzie> fungot: You know about bots, any clues?
13:05:00 <fungot> fizzie: they say that eggs, pancakes and juice are just a touch.
13:05:21 <fizzie> Yeah, I don't think that really helps.
13:20:49 <ion> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21559589/databases.png
13:36:05 <Sgeo> "Getting the character (byte) at position N:"
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13:47:33 * Sgeo is now reading about a different Io language
13:49:30 <elliott> 12:24:33 <Sgeo> Language idea: A language where you write CPS-style code manually, but the syntax of the language is such that it feels natural
13:49:31 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
13:55:07 <elliott> @tell oerjan re: * oerjan is still annoyed by whoever replaced his carefully crafted ASCII graph without crossing edges with a picture with crossing edges, even if it's prettier graphics
13:55:12 <elliott> @tell oerjan http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Eodermdrome&diff=22229&oldid=14568
14:13:16 <Sgeo> By changing Io's stdlib, could I make it such that non-name-colliding monkeypatching is possible?
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14:19:42 <Sgeo> http://web.media.mit.edu/~lieber/Lieberary/OOP/Act-1/Concurrent-OOP-in-Act-1.html makes references to old languages. I think it's old
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14:40:04 <Sgeo> .... at least one other person in #yfl has toyed with Atomo
14:40:08 <Sgeo> I think I feel at home
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17:14:49 <nortti> traceroute 216.81.59.173
17:16:07 <Taneb> What an interesting route
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17:33:34 * Sgeo vaguely wonders what kmc thinks about Io. It reminds me vaguely of Kernel
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17:54:06 <Taneb> Saying that, PietBot is dead
17:55:29 <jconn> Taneb: |value error: help
17:55:37 <jconn> Taneb: |value error: pi
17:56:06 <jconn> Taneb: |domain error
18:00:23 -!- boily has joined.
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18:02:15 <Sgeo> ) /:~ 'Hi boily'
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18:07:03 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
18:07:13 -!- boily has joined.
18:07:45 <boily> show that I'm an IRC addict now, I guess. came in to work on a saturday, absentmindedly start weechat in screen.
18:08:32 <boily> Sgeo: hi! weren't you Adaing instead of Jing?
18:08:45 <boily> elliott: I ain't no hillbilly. much too cold to be one.
18:11:01 <Taneb> `learn sgeolang currently is either J or Io.
18:12:09 <Sgeo> Unless it's Cecil
18:12:11 <Sgeo> Or the other Io
18:12:20 <Sgeo> Or maybe Diesel. Does Diesel still exist?
18:12:31 <Sgeo> It's been a while since I broke my brain failing to understand gBeta
18:13:42 <boily> there are multiple ioes?
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18:18:01 <Sgeo> Ok, I like Io's exception stuff
18:18:19 <Sgeo> pretty cool to just wrap something in try and it returns an exception if there was.... wait
18:18:58 <elliott> which io are you looking at
18:19:00 <elliott> is it the continuation one
18:19:32 <Sgeo> That's what I meant by the "other" Io though
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18:29:20 <Taneb> There exists at least one relatively simple number system with single radix such that 1111 + 1100 = 1011
18:29:46 <Taneb> (well, there may be)
18:29:56 <Taneb> (just I've made a mistake that means that I'm wrong)
18:30:28 <Taneb> 11011 + 11000 = 10011
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18:39:53 <kmc> i 'love' reading copy-pasted code
18:40:01 <kmc> it's like one of those 'spot the differences' picture puzzles
18:44:11 <Sgeo> I have been guilty of copy/pasted code
18:44:17 <Sgeo> Including in that Tcl code I wrote
18:44:28 <Sgeo> Probably why Transcriptic never talked to me again :'(
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20:19:38 <lambdabot> elliott said 6h 24m 32s ago: re: * oerjan is still annoyed by whoever replaced his carefully crafted ASCII graph without crossing edges with a picture with crossing edges, even if it's prettier
20:19:38 <lambdabot> elliott said 6h 24m 26s ago: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Eodermdrome&diff=22229&oldid=14568
20:19:51 <oerjan> elliott: yeah i already checked
20:21:16 <fizzie> oerjan: I've complained about the edge-crossings-for-a-planar-graph problem before. I wonder if it's automagically generated.
20:22:14 <oerjan> i assume timwi just put it into some graph visualizer
20:23:30 <oerjan> from the ascii graph i made, it was almost trivial to read out all the properties listed.
20:25:09 <oerjan> but it _is_ prettier graphics too :(
20:25:36 <fizzie> Clearly you must both do it in your layout but with prettier graphics.
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20:31:53 <oerjan> but timwi obviously didn't upload it in an easily editable format
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20:33:08 <oerjan> my brain protests against learning a drawing program for this.
20:33:30 <oerjan> (MS Paint's quality was obviously inadequate, i tried.)
20:34:33 <oerjan> and my memories of getting letters placed just right in xfig are not positive.
20:35:07 <oerjan> elliott: i don't actually know those either. you can do line drawing?
20:35:45 <elliott> with enough hacks you can do anything!
20:35:50 <elliott> unfortunately without enough hacks, you can't do anything.
20:36:09 <oerjan> well what my brain protests against is really anything that isn't just point and click.
20:38:00 <elliott> open an on-screen keyboard
20:39:00 <oerjan> i mean point and click to get lines to start and end in the right place. and also to adjust automatically when i move the boxes. actually xfig _could_ do that... too bad i'm on windows now.
20:39:03 <kmc> imo learning the basics of using inkscape was a good time investment
20:39:25 <fizzie> oerjan: There are point-and-click things online. Like draw.io or something.
20:39:40 <kmc> xfig sucks
20:39:58 <kmc> inkscape may suck on windows / mac though
20:40:04 <kmc> it is pretty usable on linux
20:40:26 <oerjan> kmc: please don't discuss this subject in ways that discourage me further. thank you.
20:42:50 <kmc> or just pirate illustrator
20:43:22 <fizzie> I didn't see a reasonable argument against any of the things like draw.io that you can just point a browser at and draw.
20:43:39 <ais523> oerjan: many of the microsoft office programs can do that; powerpoint is probably the best at it that's relatively cheap
20:43:45 <ais523> (visio is better but it's mindboggingly expensive)
20:43:45 <kmc> actually you can pirate Adobe Creative Suite CS2 from Adobe's own website
20:43:55 <ais523> kmc: yeah but you're not supposed to
20:44:05 <kmc> that's why i said "pirate" and not "legally download"
20:44:09 <oerjan> i don't have any office programs
20:44:59 <ais523> what you really need is a vector drawing program
20:45:15 <ais523> inkscape's the best known, I think, but I don't know much about it
20:45:17 <fizzie> No, you need a graph drawing program, of which there are quite a few.
20:46:25 <fizzie> The one in draw.io lets you make one node, then draw a connection from it to empty space, and when you release it, it creates a duplicate of the node you started from, meaning you get to specify the shape and size you want just once.
20:46:27 <ais523> I don't actually know what oerjan's problem is, because I haven't checked scrollback
20:46:37 <fizzie> (Then you double-click and edit the label, and that's about it.)
20:46:44 <ais523> before when I joined, I mean
20:46:53 <oerjan> ais523: i want to fix the eodermdrome initial graph drawing
20:47:29 <elliott> hm, so if you care about efficiency, ST actually mixes two *different* concerns that require rank-2 to be safe...
20:48:30 <fizzie> It works fine for me, which admittedly isn't helpful. (I'm twiddling together a graph there at the moment, just for the funs.)
20:48:58 <zzo38> Isn't there the "DOT" graph visualization?
20:49:38 <oerjan> fizzie: oh it worked when i changed https to http in the google link
20:50:03 <kmc> zzo38: yes, it's okay if you want to put no effort into the layout, but it often does things stupidly and there aren't good tools for adjusting it
20:50:07 <kmc> not that i've found anyway
20:51:21 <Sgeo> I'm an idiot. I just forced myself into a position where I have to explain monads to C# people
20:51:22 <fizzie> kmc: It comes with a tool. Oh, you said "good tools". Never mind, then.
20:52:47 <monqy> sgeo can you explain monads to me
20:56:49 <kmc> which tool does it come with?
20:57:23 <c00kiemon5ter> monqy, this is about that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0EF0VTs9Dc
20:57:36 <fizzie> oerjan: Something like https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130209-eoderm.png for example would follow your layout but with boxes.
20:57:43 <monqy> c00kiemon5ter: so i hear
21:00:05 <oerjan> fizzie: almost perfect, but would it be hard to get the letters slightly lower down in the boxes?
21:00:06 <Sgeo> "Sgeo please say another word for monad (if not atom,particle mean)"
21:00:29 <oerjan> also ideally -t-h- should be a straight line, i think
21:00:33 <fizzie> oerjan: Curiously enough, they are in the interface; PNG export made them be in the current stupid place. I'll try some other export.
21:00:41 <fizzie> oerjan: Though now that I look at your ASCII graph, I can't help noticing there's no edge between r and o.
21:01:00 <fizzie> It was that goes-around-the-whole-thing one.
21:01:23 <oerjan> right, it seemed impossible not to have one of those
21:04:02 <ais523> Sgeo: there are any number of monad tutorials you could link them to…
21:04:22 <Sgeo> I should do that
21:05:24 <oerjan> fizzie: it seems like the "y" is perfectly placed, but the rest gets skewed because of missing under or extra over parts
21:07:23 <fizzie> oerjan: I think it has just put the letter baselines in the middle of the box. I'll see if something can be done. Is https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130209-eoderm2.png layoutwise okay, though?
21:08:48 <ais523> has there been any feedback on my omnipotent BF Joust program? or the one before?
21:08:58 <ais523> I even went and wrote them up, now I want someone to comment on them >:(
21:09:11 <Sgeo> (For the lazy)
21:09:57 <fizzie> oerjan: Last I looked at Timwi's version, it seemed to me that with very few edits it would've made an edge-crossing-free graph with somewhat more equal edge lengths. (If only it were sensibly editable.)
21:09:57 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies#2013
21:10:57 <oerjan> fizzie: yes i noticed you didn't need too many changes, although i think you'd force a long curve then too
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21:12:13 <oerjan> fizzie: as for your layout it's okay but i'd ideally like the placement to be more symmetric along each major line.
21:12:34 <Sgeo> ais523, I don't understand the terminology well enough :(
21:13:05 <fizzie> oerjan: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130209-eoderm3.png has letters in a slightly more reasonable positions (it's from the SVG export), though arguably now they're a little too low.
21:13:20 <ais523> Sgeo: well that entire page is about explaining it, but I can talk you through it myself if you ask questions
21:13:48 <Sgeo> meh, I'll read it later
21:13:56 <Sgeo> My eye hurts a little from lack of sleep
21:14:55 <Sgeo> < move the tape pointer away from the opponent
21:14:55 <Sgeo> > move the tape pointer toward the opponent
21:14:57 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant `mode' (imported from Text.PrettyPr...
21:15:24 <Sgeo> Imagine if < and > moved away and from the opponent's current memory pointer, rather than goal
21:15:56 <Taneb> How would they behave when the two players are in the same place
21:16:41 <ais523> that sounds like a good way to make it impossible for anyone to win
21:17:09 <ais523> I think you have to understand BF Joust to propose random changes to it and have them make sense
21:17:15 <ais523> impomatic: what's special about that IP?
21:17:16 <Sgeo> Could be toward/away from enemy goal in that case. Not a good solution, but there will be some implications
21:17:39 <impomatic> ais523: trace it and you'll see :-P
21:18:04 <ais523> I guess I can advertise my new BF Joust program at impomatic too, now he's here
21:18:31 <oerjan> fizzie: i guess it's a _bit_ better. can you move the t-h more vertically like the j-x and the v more horizontally like the q? ideally i'd like the l-a-z-y-d to be symmetrically placed between the e and o, but it might be hard to fit with the rest on the right
21:18:46 <ais523> impomatic: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies#2013
21:19:04 <fizzie> oerjan: I had made an alternative, more "griddy" look of https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130209-eoderm4.png before you said that.
21:19:04 <impomatic> ais523: Definitely, looking now :-)
21:19:40 <Sgeo> impomatic, wtf
21:19:59 <fizzie> I could make that one a bit more symmetric.
21:20:25 <oerjan> fizzie: hm yes if you move l-a-z-y-d in that a bit, it would look nice in a different way.
21:23:20 <fizzie> oerjan: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130209-eoderm5.png has l-a-z-y-d symmetric w.r.t. e/o, though I did fiddle with the o-w-n-f-o loop a bit too.
21:23:42 <oerjan> <ais523> Sgeo: there are any number of monad tutorials you could link them to… <-- i suddenly wonder if there's a monad tutorial for stoners
21:27:25 * ais523 defines the "any number" as the number of currently existing monad tutorials; it changes over time
21:27:47 <oerjan> fizzie: i say you upload that one :)
21:28:26 * impomatic wonders if it's possible to mimic space_hotel's decoy to confuse omnipotence :-P
21:28:46 <fizzie> I suppose I will need to pngcrunch it, because that has been done to the existing file too.
21:29:28 <fizzie> Also it currently has a transparent background, but maybe that is not a problem.
21:29:58 <oerjan> we'll have to check that
21:30:46 <oerjan> the current graph is on a white background anyway
21:31:10 <oerjan> i dunno if there are skins that make it different
21:34:27 <oerjan> <shachaf> and covariant/contravariant are confusing <-- just use "variant" and "ntravariant" hth
21:35:24 <fizzie> It is (hopefully) done. Also made the version on the page to be the native size now that it's somewhat smaller overall; though it's still a bit bigger than what it was before.
21:36:22 <oerjan> um i thought it looked smaller.
21:36:49 <fizzie> oerjan: Yes, but the old one was with |300px on the page.
21:37:39 <oerjan> i was looking at an old diff, which confused me
21:37:50 <oerjan> (the picture changed but not the page)
21:38:17 <fizzie> I don't know if the official way would've been to upload a different picture, and use that.
21:38:28 <fizzie> Since it's not really a new "version" of the previous picture.
21:38:28 <oerjan> fizzie: it's been a pleasure working with you sir (cackles madly)
21:38:59 <oerjan> (the work others do for you is the best)
21:39:17 <fizzie> (Also maybe the recommended way working with Mediawiki would've been to insert the SVG version and let it create the rasterizations? I don't know. It's all so multimedia these days.)
21:39:43 <oerjan> fizzie: oh right it probably is.
21:39:50 <oerjan> ais523 probably knows better.
21:40:13 <ais523> MediaWiki comes with optional SVG rasterization, I don't know if Esolang has it instaled
21:40:24 <ais523> if it does, you just upload the SVG file and everything just works
21:42:08 <fizzie> ais523: If it's installed, and you include an uploaded SVG image on a page, does it actually put a raster version on the page, or does it expect browsers these days to manage SVG?
21:43:02 <ais523> it puts a raster version on the page
21:43:44 <oerjan> hm isn't it a bit bad that mediawiki historical article versions are shown with new versions of pictures?
21:45:03 <oerjan> probably that applies to templates too.
21:45:32 <ais523> oerjan: indeed, it does
21:46:05 <oerjan> perhaps it would be even more confusing the other way.
21:46:17 <fizzie> [[".svg" is not a permitted file type. Permitted file types are png, gif, jpg, jpeg.]] I guess that's a no-go. (Well, less work for me.)
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21:47:29 <oerjan> is there a way to link to the original editable version of a picture?
21:50:11 <ais523> elliott: you need to install an extension, I think
21:51:11 <shachaf> What's a good way to have email at my domain name?
21:51:39 <oerjan> you actually bought shach.af?
21:51:50 <kmc> shachaf: a lot of registrars will run free email forwarding for you
21:51:52 <kmc> that is the lazy way
21:52:06 <Sgeo> The sooner I'm not dependent on my dad's money the better
21:53:59 <shachaf> Maybe I should get hachaf.net so I can have the emails s@hachaf.net and t@hachaf.net (for when people want to thank me).
21:54:08 <ais523> the harder way is to hire or buy a mailserver, and point the domain name at the mailserver
21:54:22 <ais523> that's what I did with nethack4.org
21:54:26 <ais523> (which is a lots-of-things server)
21:54:35 <ais523> (although mostly nethack 4)
21:56:54 <fizzie> The middling way is presumably then to buy a mail redirection service you can point your own domain to. (I'm sure there are some.)
21:57:40 <fizzie> ais523: Incidentally, does MediaWiki have a "git blame" style view? I remember seeing a thing like that in something, but it might've been Confluence or some-such.
21:57:54 <ais523> fizzie: not by default
21:57:58 <ais523> there's probably an extension that does it by now
21:58:00 <kmc> when i was in high school i thought it great fun to run my own DNS and MX and such
21:58:09 <kmc> now it all seems like a total pain
21:58:11 <ais523> I don't run my own DNS
21:58:16 <ais523> do run my own mailserver, though
21:58:36 <kmc> i used djb approved software
21:58:37 <kmc> for everything
21:58:50 <kmc> djbdns, qmail, publicfile
21:58:59 <kmc> on openbsd
21:59:10 <kmc> i was one of the cool kids in high school for sure
22:00:07 <oerjan> fizzie: what's git blame? i found on wikipedia an option for a button that gives you much more readable diffs for confusing edits
22:00:12 <kmc> is that djb's wacky init system that nobody else uses?
22:01:05 <fizzie> oerjan: The same as "svn annotate", it gives you a copy of the file with every line annotated with the revision (and committer) when it was last changed.
22:01:08 <elliott> djb doesnt have an init system
22:01:14 <elliott> there's daemontools that you can run as pid 1 if you do hackery
22:02:09 <kmc> by init system i meant not a replacement for /sbin/init but, like, a daemonizer
22:02:14 <kmc> poor choice of words
22:02:17 <kmc> anyway yes i used that thing
22:02:26 <oerjan> (wikEdDiff in the Gadget section, btw)
22:02:51 <elliott> kmc: /package is his weirdo packaging system
22:03:16 <fizzie> oerjan: Not quite, no. It's (sometimes) useful when the question you have is "who's responsible for this piece of text". (Of course sometimes all it tells you is who fixed the commas in it.)
22:03:46 <ais523> oerjan: the gadget things are written entirely in JS and CSS
22:04:10 <shachaf> Maybe I should get an SSL certificate.
22:04:13 <ais523> in fact, there's a large amount of stuff done like that that would be better done server-side, because of the ratio of the number of people who can work on client-side extensions, and on server-side extensions
22:04:53 <kmc> shachaf: http://www.startssl.com/ will give you one for free
22:05:21 <kmc> anyway yes
22:05:31 <kmc> you should run a HTTPS-only website with HSTS
22:05:37 <shachaf> If you can get one for free why do some people charge lots of money for them?
22:05:44 <kmc> and only allow RC4 and GCM-mode AES
22:05:48 <fizzie> You don't get all that much for free from StartSSL.
22:05:49 <kmc> i don't know
22:05:53 <oerjan> ais523: i think i saw someone desiring to merge that diff gadget into mediawiki proper, but it would require rewriting it in PHP. or maybe it was something else.
22:05:55 <kmc> wildcard certs is one
22:06:08 <kmc> StartSSL will give you a cert that is good for www.shachaf.net and shachaf.net but not *.shachaf.net
22:06:15 <kmc> you can however request another one with s/www/whatever/
22:06:20 <oerjan> s/desiring to/desiring that someone/
22:06:26 <ais523> wildcard certs are a scam
22:06:33 <fizzie> It also won't give you a cert that's good for www.shachaf.net, shachaf.net and servername.shachaf.net at the same time.
22:06:38 <ais523> there's no technical reason why they cost a lot more than specific certs
22:07:00 <ais523> but the certificate companies can get away with charging more for them, so they do
22:07:07 <kmc> it's all, just, bits, man
22:07:11 <ais523> a small fee to allow for verification cost would be reasonable
22:07:16 <kmc> do you consider anything where pricing is set demand-side to be a 'scam'
22:07:16 <ais523> but they charge more than that /and/ they don't verify :)
22:08:40 <fizzie> As for getting multiple certificates for your different names, you need to use a not-supported-everywhere SSL/TLS extension (SNI) in order to use those with a single IP address.
22:09:08 <kmc> why's that?
22:09:12 <fizzie> "As of November 2012, the only major user bases whose browsers do not support SNI appear to be users of Internet Explorer 8 or below on Windows XP and versions of Java before 1.7 on any operating system."
22:09:24 <shachaf> As of November 2012, the only major user bases whose browsers do not support SNI appear to be users of Internet Explorer 8 or below on Windows XP and versions of Java before 1.7 on any operating system.
22:09:36 <kmc> oh server name whatever
22:09:43 <kmc> because SSL setup happens before a HTTP Host: header is sent, right
22:10:17 <fizzie> Admittedly it *is* quite widely supported by now.
22:10:46 <fizzie> Also you don't get anything else than an email address inserted into the free StartSSL certificate.
22:10:56 <fizzie> On the other hand, nobody will look at the certificate contents ever either, so...
22:10:56 <oerjan> <Sgeo> Language idea: A language where you write CPS-style code manually, but the syntax of the language is such that it feels natural <-- that's essentially levin's IO (not the modern language called IO)
22:12:41 <oerjan> fizzie: the "or below" is redundant, since IE >= 9 doesn't work on XP.
22:12:51 <ais523> elliott: good idea or bad idea? I wanted to restart Chromium without losing my currently opened tabs
22:12:57 <ais523> so I did killall -SEGV chromium-browser
22:13:03 <ais523> so it would think it had crashed, and try to recover
22:13:03 <elliott> ais523: I do killall -9 chromium
22:13:06 <oerjan> elliott: hm is that writing it manually though?
22:13:08 <fizzie> oerjan: I suppose then the "8" is redundant too.
22:13:18 <elliott> oerjan: seems like a fairly ill-defined notion
22:13:26 <elliott> oerjan: do is at least the "most general" CPS notation
22:14:11 <oerjan> elliott: well ok >>= is CPS, so i guess.
22:14:43 <elliott> oerjan: right, and do notation never uses "return"
22:14:50 <elliott> (+ fail, but for irrelevant reasons)
22:14:56 <elliott> (+ (>>), but that's obviously irrelevant also)
22:15:00 <shachaf> do notation is writing CPS manually.
22:15:06 <fizzie> It's not terribly expensive to go through StartSSL's identity validation, after which you can generate as many certificates as you like -- with expiration dates up to two years in the future -- during the 350 days that it's valid, and get your own name on them. (Apparently it's $60 now; I think it used to be cheaper.)
22:15:12 <oerjan> i suspect Java 1.7 isn't supported on XP either, i keep getting patches for 1.6 and no suggestion to upgrade.
22:15:20 <elliott> shachaf: That's the point.
22:15:54 <shachaf> elliott: Right. I'm agreeing with you(/whoever said it).
22:16:32 <elliott> oerjan: my understanding is that the continuation IO language defines ; to basically be a pass-a-continuation lambda, right?
22:16:39 <elliott> that's how I see do notation
22:16:46 <elliott> (except you write the lambda's parameter a statement early)
22:16:57 <oerjan> <ais523> so I did killall -SEGV chromium-browser <-- well did it work?
22:17:08 <elliott> do { foo -> x; bar -> y; return z } -- I can imagine this as a possible alternate do notation syntax
22:17:14 <ais523> it'd be nice if there was a less obscure way to do that
22:17:17 <elliott> where you have lambda syntax (-> var; body)
22:17:28 <shachaf> What about idiom brackets?
22:17:33 <elliott> so you can see that's literally writing CPS, the "do" part now does nothing
22:17:55 <shachaf> There's always the monad-embed sort of CPSing.
22:17:59 <elliott> shachaf: Applicatives are do notation where you never reference any of the variables you bind until the last statement.
22:18:16 <oerjan> elliott: IO syntax is iirc f x y -> var ; g z ...
22:18:25 <shachaf> And also the last statement is return.
22:18:45 <oerjan> where -> vars ; ... is a continuation.
22:19:02 <shachaf> do notation isn't strictly CPS.
22:20:02 <oerjan> (and the -> vars is optional if the continuation takes no arguments)
22:21:24 <elliott> oerjan: so it's what I said
22:21:31 <elliott> you can just change the tokens and get
22:21:47 <oerjan> i guess the difference with IO is you only have m () values, not m a)
22:22:01 <elliott> so if you accept that Io is writing continuations "manually" and "directly" as can be
22:22:08 <elliott> the only leap to do notation is that you move where the variable is bound
22:22:19 <elliott> which IMO is completely syntactic enough to still be direct
22:24:13 <oerjan> you need f x y $ \ var -> g z ... to get syntactically correct haskell though
22:25:15 <elliott> oerjan: yes. but that's just an issue of operator precedence, really
22:25:29 <elliott> consider $ \ as one token if you like
22:26:44 <oerjan> well it's an issue of those right-gobbling expression forms not being acceptable directly as arguments to functions, only operators. but minor difference.
22:29:11 <oerjan> <oklopol> how much heat can a human handle? <-- i think they pretty much settled that at that fateful "sports" event, no?
22:29:54 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Sauna_Championships
22:30:04 <oerjan> i guess the _dry_ case may still be open, hth
22:31:24 <oerjan> two nicks and both idle
22:32:07 <oerjan> or wait is high humidity supposedly worse
22:32:19 <oerjan> i guess i'll leave the science to the finns.
22:32:57 <FreeFull> Humidity makes sweating less effective
22:33:45 <oerjan> * Sgeo is now reading about a different Io language <-- hey no fair finding the solution before i tell you
22:34:08 <elliott> oerjan: I knew he said that all along and was hiding it from you
22:35:53 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:35:55 <oerjan> <Sgeo> By changing Io's stdlib, could I make it such that non-name-colliding monkeypatching is possible? <-- is hygienic monkeypatching a known term, please say yes
22:36:15 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
22:36:49 <oerjan> sadly google search is not optimistic
22:37:14 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:39:07 <Sgeo> Do Scala implicit conversions count?
22:40:10 <oerjan> <nortti> traceroute 216.81.59.173
22:40:36 <oerjan> had to add -m 100 (actually 64)
22:40:50 <Sgeo> I originally thought that nortti intended to type that into console to do stuff
22:40:56 <Sgeo> When impomatic said it is when I tried it
22:41:22 <Taneb> My interesting traceroute comment referred to elliott's hi
22:41:39 <oerjan> when impomatic said it is when i pasted it into a terminal window, then forgot about it until i found nortti in the logs.
22:41:49 <elliott> bash: traceroute: command not found
22:42:27 <oerjan> might be under something administrative?
22:42:49 * oerjan doesn't remember what that prefix is
22:43:58 <Sgeo> oerjan, oh, didn't realize there was more to it than the little I saw
22:44:01 <elliott> sudo: traceroute: command not found
22:44:22 <oerjan> yeah without -m it got cut off early
22:45:46 <oerjan> elliott: it's not restricted here at nvg...
22:46:59 <elliott> i just dont have it installed
22:48:04 <oerjan> never actually reached the 216.81.59.173 IP btw
22:49:08 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
22:52:23 <oerjan> elliott: http://sprunge.us/dNgW
22:52:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:53:11 <oerjan> WARNING: it feels better to do it yourself with traceroute.
23:01:56 <fizzie> "tracepath" is what I did it with.
23:02:05 <fizzie> It seems to have ended up being installed by default, unlike traceroute.
23:03:13 <fizzie> (ubuntu-standard depends on iputils-tracepath, but not on traceroute/inetutils-traceroute.)
23:45:59 <fizzie> oerjan: I had that graph editor open, so I clicked together also a straight-lines-only crossing-free version starting from the Timwi layout; I don't think it's æsthetically an improvement, but I'm sure it'd win in some metrics: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130209-eoderm8.png
23:50:41 <fizzie> (It's also even more compact.)
23:52:32 <FreeFull> Can you supply a non-planar graph to eodermdrone?
23:54:38 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:56:31 <Taneb> I don't think abcdeacebda is planar, for example
23:56:48 -!- Frooxius has joined.
23:57:10 <fizzie> I was this || close to giving a much longer K_5.
23:57:15 <fizzie> (I suppose that's what it is?)
23:57:35 <fizzie> Ooooh, I never knew *that*.
23:57:55 <fizzie> It's like onions upon onions.
23:58:50 <Sgeo> ) '+';'-' @. 0
23:58:51 <jconn> Sgeo: |domain error
23:58:51 <jconn> Sgeo: | '+'; '-'@.0