00:00:34 <elliott> oerjan: presumably they plugged that hole and that's why we don't hear about it any more :tinfoil:
00:01:41 <kmc> i feel bad that i don't care more about massive government surveilance
00:02:40 <kmc> i personally don't have anything to hide, but i like living in a free democratic society and not one where (say) journalists are imprisoned arbitrarily based on secret surveillance
00:02:53 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:03:20 <shachaf> how do you know you like it
00:06:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:07:36 <Fiora> elliott: oh, thanks! I hope it made sense to someone who a) wasn't me and b) wasn't bike who followed along as I poked at the code
00:15:36 -!- Bike has joined.
00:16:38 <oerjan> Bike: why are you stalking Fiora while she pokes at code please stop immediately hth
00:17:49 <oerjan> see what happens when you don't logread.
00:17:56 <shachaf> 17:06 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-38-181.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
00:17:59 <shachaf> 17:07 <Fiora> elliott: oh, thanks! I hope it made sense to someone who a) wasn't me and b) wasn't bike who followed along as I poked at the code
00:18:02 <shachaf> 17:15 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-38-181.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #esoteric
00:18:15 <Bike> glad we had this talk
00:18:27 <Fiora> bike was the one who suggested the life thing to begin with <.<
00:18:31 <Fiora> and we like, talked about hashlife and stuff
00:18:34 <Fiora> and he explained hashlife to me
00:18:58 <shachaf> hashlife? i think kmc is our expert on that (drugz joke)
00:19:13 -!- madbr has joined.
00:19:37 <Bike> so, a given game of life is going to have a lot of repetitious space, for example huge empty areas
00:20:02 <oerjan> Fiora: i hope you are not assuming i am serious. (ever.)
00:20:51 <Bike> uh, which technical details
00:21:22 <Fiora> basically you store life as a quadtree structure and take advantage of the fact that a block N spaces away from another block can't affect it for N time iterations? like the speed of light thing
00:22:40 <Phantom_Hoover> mm, so wait, do you work out how a given causally closed region evolves over <stepsize> generations then just iterate that?
00:22:47 <oerjan> life isn't a circle but a quadtree, check
00:22:52 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: not quite
00:23:31 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: each region of space 2^n across has an center 2^(n-1) width area that can be simulated 2^(n-2) steps ahead without reference to any other 2^n block
00:23:51 <madbr> I think I've figured why the pentium2 dominated and still dominates despite having such a low instruction-per-cycle count (4, 3 in older versions... the pentium 1 could do 2)
00:23:58 <madbr> speculative load/store
00:24:21 <Bike> i don't know if what you do is "iterat[ing] that" exactly, it's more like just frustrums in space time (band name etc)
00:24:45 <Bike> if you want 2^(n-3) or whatever ahead you can take the future of the future, yeah
00:25:01 <Fiora> doesn't nearly everything have speculative load-store nowadays?
00:25:17 <Fiora> oh. I guess I really only know x86 -_-
00:25:34 <madbr> not stuff like power6 (in order!)
00:25:36 <Fiora> I remember a thing in the optimization guides even about problems caused by too many cancelled/failed speculative loads and how to deal with them
00:25:40 <Fiora> and like how big the penalties are and stuff
00:26:22 <madbr> working on this design and memory aliasing is the big, big problem
00:26:59 <shachaf> Bike: have you considered moving to california
00:27:04 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: rather than iterating exactly it's more like you can go deeper and deeper into the future within a region while restricting the size of that future
00:27:31 <madbr> like, split branching (different iterations going different ways of a branch) is another problem but that's fixable
00:28:31 <madbr> memory aliasing is much worse and unless compilers are very good at guessing what can't alias I'm going to have to have some sort of software anti-alias or else compilers will never output optimized code
00:29:23 <madbr> which means I'd go from 2 memory opcodes (load, store) to 7 (load, load-lock, load-check, store, store-unlock, lock, unlock)
00:30:01 <madbr> plus probably having to save/load the state of the antialias buffer on interrupts (unless the interrupt handler doesn't use antialias)
00:32:00 <madbr> obviously this takes a dump on my instruction set design, which I'm trying to keep simple (ie I'm ending up with an almost perfect copy of mips :( )
00:33:01 <madbr> need to figure out a load/store antialias mechanism that isn't heinous
00:37:07 <madbr> memory access is so awful on CPU designs, it's probably the main thing that's holding back instructions-per-cycle
00:37:40 -!- kategory has quit (Quit: i spell kopumpkin with a k).
00:38:41 <madbr> if it weren't for that there would be no need for GPUs and every game wouldn't all look the same
00:39:05 <elliott> shachaf: help why did you version me
00:39:21 <shachaf> elliott: i might ask you the same question
00:40:05 <Sgeo> "Obama endorses herbal supplements"
00:40:30 <Sgeo> Seems like that could turn people away
00:40:31 <Fiora> elliott: oh, you're back, did you get my message...?
00:40:34 <Sgeo> Some people anyway
00:43:36 <elliott> once i figured out that the handwritten "lut" was a "lut" (i am awful at reading handwriting, always)
00:44:01 <elliott> also it might just be my browser but the first line shows as "(Or, “how I made Life 84 times faster, with )" here
00:44:26 <shachaf> i kept thinking "lut" was like "lub"
00:44:26 <kmc> yeah for me as well
00:44:40 <kmc> i really like the fish shaped script l
00:44:45 <Fiora> oops. going to fix that
00:44:51 <kmc> I think I picked up a fondness for it while hand-writing physics homeworks or something
00:45:11 <Fiora> sorry for my crappy mousewriting :p
00:45:22 <Fiora> (is that a good word for it? handwriting with a mouse? XD)
00:45:22 <kmc> oh, I was actually going to ask if you had a drawing tablet
00:45:34 <Fiora> I have one, but I scribbed those in free time at work <.<
00:45:36 <kmc> cause it's pretty smooth
00:46:16 <kmc> i should read the article a second time and focus on details more
00:46:29 <Fiora> I like it too. it's easier to tell apart from an I I think
00:46:34 <Fiora> especially with handwriting where you don't have serifs
00:46:45 <Fiora> (and it looks pretty)
00:46:53 <shachaf> i write the variable l that way too
00:47:03 <shachaf> mostly because my l is otherwise indistinguishable from a 1
00:47:05 <kmc> yeah I use it (and have seen it used) in LaTeX too
00:47:19 <kmc> i write a 1 with a big flag and base
00:54:16 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
00:54:33 <kmc> Fiora: hm so I'm trying to understand this http://media.tumblr.com/5da179ea25622b1cfe2c5beb0136babd/tumblr_inline_mnxxj1SBUP1qz4rgp.png
00:55:18 <kmc> what's the type of lut[x]?
00:55:41 <kmc> it's a vector of 8 bytes, each one a cell count?
00:56:09 <Fiora> it's a vector of 8 4-bit values, but when adding it the corner case could cause the values to overflow to 5 bits
00:56:21 <Fiora> so we just expand it to 8 bits per value, so each entry is a 64-bit (8x8bit)
00:56:42 <Fiora> (we'd probably have to do that anyways since pshufb takes 8-bit arguments)
00:57:11 <kmc> so when you say "= (E<<3) + (A+...+I)", that's the equation for each of those 8 counts?
00:57:18 <Fiora> Yeah, that's the idea
00:57:25 <kmc> for the respective A,...,I making up that neighborhood
00:57:36 <Fiora> so we get 8 of those with 3 lookups, basically.
00:57:53 -!- madbr has joined.
00:59:00 <Fiora> sorry, that one wasn't that clear, it kind of omits the whole simd thing of "we're actually doing this eight times"
00:59:26 <kmc> ah i see, so there's one set of LUTs that goes from cell rows to sums + current cell, and another LUT that goes from those back to new cell rows
00:59:43 <Fiora> Yeah, the last one is just 16 entries though.
00:59:53 <kmc> and you have to truncate to 4 bits for the second step, but that works out because the elements that alias happen to have the same value
00:59:56 <kmc> convenient :)
00:59:59 <Fiora> so I kind of feel like it's a different thing, since the other LUTs are 16 kilobytes XD
01:00:09 <Fiora> yup, that was a total accident by the way
01:00:13 <Fiora> that was not smartness
01:00:21 <Fiora> that was "oops totally overlooked that oh wait it works"
01:00:58 <kmc> did you profile the actual cache misses in this code?
01:01:44 <Fiora> I didn't do any profiling, but I think this should basically fit in cache?
01:02:00 <Fiora> it's 16 kilobytes of lookup table + the life board, I guess
01:02:10 <Fiora> so like I guess it'll overflow a bit but not too much?
01:02:27 <Fiora> it'd probably be pretty easy to profile though
01:02:39 <kmc> on linux you can use 'perf' to count cache misses
01:02:41 <kmc> don't know about windows
01:02:55 <Fiora> yeah, I use perf sometimes, I was just kind of lazy and didn't feel like copying it over to linux ^^;
01:03:07 <Fiora> I... guess I could do that now? XD
01:03:23 <shachaf> Your code compiles under x86_64-linux-gnu!
01:03:57 <Fiora> it's basically horrific code, like, I tuned the inner loop size for... what happened to be the size gcc would happily unroll at -O3 -_-
01:04:23 <kmc> that seems to be a fine heuristic
01:04:57 <shachaf> oprofile has some good profiling things
01:05:32 <Fiora> huh. gcc complains about aliasing in 4.8 @_@ I wonder why, the life board is uint8_t and it should be okay to dereference that as uint32_t
01:05:36 <Fiora> I guess it might just be wrong? :<
01:07:13 <kmc> it's safe because char* is exempt from strict aliasing rules?
01:07:35 <Fiora> I think so? I thought you could access anything as char and Some Other Type
01:08:12 <kmc> yeah I'm reading now that char and unsigned char are equivalent for this purpose, as well
01:08:18 <kmc> and uint8_t should be a typedef for unsigned char
01:08:35 <kmc> does the gcc warning give any more information?
01:09:34 <Fiora> Um... okay so... perf -e L1-dcache-load-misses I guess
01:09:59 <Fiora> it says there's... 820 events... 86.46% in the kernel... 8.93% in "fast"... 1.62% in "slow"
01:10:32 <Fiora> "life.c: In function ‘update_board_fast’:
01:10:33 <Fiora> life.c:99:9: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasi
01:10:35 <Fiora> ng rules [-Wstrict-aliasing] uintptr_t line1 = ((*(uint32_t*)&LIFE_PACKED(x-1, 0)) >> 3) & 0x3ff0; ^"
01:13:41 <shachaf> Sgeo: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/342326443193282560
01:14:15 <kmc> does carmack know about rust
01:14:47 <Sgeo> (Different tweet) "For reliability, I would take a GC'd and memory safe dynamic language over strong typing in C/C++, but it isn't too much to ask for both!"
01:15:20 <elliott> biased against ada's "strong typing" after reading about it having different types for indices into different arrays
01:15:30 <Sgeo> Actually, C and C++'s static typing kind of sucks
01:15:38 <kmc> if all goes well i will be a professional Rust programmer soon :)
01:15:41 <elliott> which (the source said and) struck me as missing the point
01:16:10 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
01:16:33 <Fiora> I remember using perf was really frustrating in general because I had to like, manually look up all the event codes in the intel handbook
01:16:45 <elliott> kmc should sneak me into mozilla, I am pretty short so we could just pose as one really tall person like in films
01:16:54 <Fiora> and it didn't seem to work with the precise events so they all had that thing where the results lag the instruction that actually caused it >_<
01:17:04 <Fiora> so you'd see a bunch of cache misses 30 lines after the thing that missed the cache
01:17:05 <kmc> elliott: i'm already really tall person :/
01:17:10 <kmc> Fiora: dang
01:17:13 <elliott> kmc: just say u had a growing spurt
01:17:26 <shachaf> Fiora: Yes, that's annoying.
01:17:40 <Fiora> it was kinda useful? but like it took a lot of poking and guessing
01:17:49 <shachaf> elliott: but what if kmc talks to people who aren't fools
01:18:01 <kmc> who is the greater fool
01:18:06 <Fiora> kmc's tall, he can just like, hide you inside of his trenchcoat
01:18:24 <elliott> a question I have never considered before today
01:18:47 <kmc> i've considered many times buying a trenchcoat
01:18:47 <elliott> i can start owning one if it's needed for operation mozilla
01:18:58 <shachaf> trenchcoat ownership is required for joining this channel
01:18:58 <kmc> elliott: you could also, like, apply to work at mozilla through the usual channels
01:19:07 * Fiora doesn't have one either
01:19:10 <elliott> kmc: that sounds kind of hard
01:19:30 <shachaf> kmc: i heard you have to know someone on the inside for them to care about your application........
01:19:44 <elliott> kmc: also I'm not sure a 17 year old w/o any relevant qualifications is in mozilla's "demographic"
01:19:45 <Bike> i thought i had a trenchcoat but it turned out to be a sport jacket sitting on another sport jacket's shoulders. very disappointing
01:19:54 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: if you think about it, california is basically strathclyde
01:20:02 <elliott> both unknowable. both eternal. both terrifying
01:20:18 <Bike> elliott: it's kind of weird that the only 17-year-old loser programmer i caan think of got hired by mozilla
01:20:20 <Fiora> qualifications: genius, from hexham, possibly cute
01:20:44 * Bike notes "possibly cute" on his resume
01:21:01 <shachaf> i can confirm that elliott is possibly cute
01:21:19 <kmc> i used to be a 17-year-old loser programmer
01:21:24 <kmc> now i am a 25-year-old winner programmer?
01:21:26 <Fiora> then you turned 18?
01:21:41 <Fiora> I-I didn't mean that as a burn!
01:22:28 <shachaf> maybe kmc turned winner before turning 18
01:22:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined.
01:22:37 <shachaf> i had a coworker who was 17 for a while
01:22:48 <Fiora> I think I was 17 once
01:22:51 <Fiora> I don't remember it much though
01:22:51 <shachaf> now he goes to caltech!!!! "kmc's future past self??"
01:23:17 <kmc> i went to caltech when i was 16 tho
01:23:24 <Fiora> kmc really is a genius
01:23:32 <kmc> only a little
01:23:33 <shachaf> kmc: he only went when he was 19 i think
01:23:40 <Bike> i know way too many motherfuckers who attended college early by which i mean: any
01:23:52 <kmc> too many motherfuckers in motherfucking college
01:23:59 <shachaf> Bike: you know me to balance it out!! hth
01:23:59 <Bike> get out of college!!
01:24:04 <Fiora> I... I attended when I was 17... I don't think it counts as early though because I didn't skip any high school
01:24:09 <Bike> shachaf: i also know myself
01:24:11 <kmc> i didn't skip any high school, only middle school
01:24:17 <elliott> 02:20:18 <Bike> elliott: it's kind of weird that the only 17-year-old loser programmer i caan think of got hired by mozilla
01:24:21 <Bike> Fiora: well so did i but that's just because of a clerical weirdness
01:24:22 <kmc> because middle school was beyond worthless
01:24:23 <Fiora> I skipped like um... a little bit of kindergarten I think
01:24:29 <Fiora> I don't remember >_<
01:24:29 <elliott> Bike: doing wonders for my self-esteem here!
01:24:44 <Bike> elliott: i dunno, bbeing jwz would be pretty cool.
01:24:50 <Bike> for example, he got the fuck out of that business
01:24:52 <elliott> 02:20:20 <Fiora> qualifications: genius, from hexham, possibly cute
01:24:59 <elliott> Fiora: who gave you this confidential information
01:25:12 <elliott> my own worst enemy.............
01:25:16 <kmc> did jwz work at netscape when he was 17
01:25:18 <kmc> is that the joke here
01:25:31 <Bike> he worked for netscape without having a degree
01:25:55 <Bike> am i kawaii? uguu
01:26:00 <kmc> he got out of the software industry and into the industry of cleaning up puke, dealing with flaky event promoters, and being harassed by the cops 24/7
01:26:09 <kmc> big step up imo
01:26:33 <elliott> i think i had like several opportunities to skip huge amounts of early school
01:26:45 <elliott> but turned them down because i didn't really know what was going on
01:26:54 <elliott> which is a bit annoying in retrospect
01:26:55 <Fiora> Bike: you can borrow some of my moe !
01:26:56 <Bike> good now you're not a huge nerd like kmc
01:27:05 <shachaf> elliott: how can you skip yourself
01:27:10 <Bike> Fiora: uh excuse you i ooze "the bish"
01:27:16 <kmc> Bike: have you read the DNA Lounge blog
01:27:24 <kmc> it's fairly entertaining
01:27:30 <Bike> i liked the fire department saga
01:27:37 <kmc> if you start at the beginning it's like 2 years of him bitching about every aspect of construction
01:27:50 <elliott> jwz seems like a nice guy, i mean as far as cynical jerks go
01:27:53 <kmc> with occasional neat technical interludes about electrical systems, or how they pump the beer through those big tubes
01:27:56 <Fiora> Bike: yes, you and your floofy hair
01:28:40 <Bike> elliott: it helps that he posts stupid youtube videos and such
01:29:37 <kmc> http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2001/01/juice2.html
01:30:07 <kmc> seven tubes of beer, one of antifreeze
01:30:11 <kmc> don't mess up the splice
01:31:25 <elliott> so, on to the crises of modern living
01:31:32 <elliott> i am using a different os than i normally do
01:31:56 <Bike> good package manager
01:31:59 <elliott> they display in full colour
01:32:29 <Bike> installation success!! [KANGXI RADICAL FIGHT]
01:32:34 <elliott> i think my whole worldview got destroyed and reconstructed from the ground up when i saw the package manager on my "other system" spontaneously render a mug of beer through my terminal
01:33:01 <Bike> i believe that was the original idea behind project MKULTRA as well
01:33:06 <kmc> is this Homebrew?
01:33:13 <kmc> it must be
01:33:38 <kmc> more like homebro
01:33:56 <elliott> if the package manager didn't have cutesy thematic reasons to choose a mug of beer of all things I think I might have just turned off the computer and moved to mexico
01:34:08 <kmc> no computers in mexico
01:34:24 <elliott> leave my whole life behind, start a new one with the single goal of avoiding all emoji reproduction devices
01:34:36 <elliott> kmc: are the homebrew developers bad too......
01:34:50 <elliott> i already hate'em because they rejected my MLton package for a bad reason years ago
01:34:51 <kmc> probably not really
01:35:02 <elliott> take that, people I don't know!!!!
01:35:28 <shachaf> <homebrew developers> we love you, elliott
01:35:29 <kmc> they override CFLAGS on every package with -Os because they read somewhere that this makes the code smaller and just as fast as -O2
01:35:36 <shachaf> <homebrew developers> we miss you at school
01:35:43 <shachaf> <homebrew developers> do you think i could -- help you?
01:35:47 <kmc> and they didn't bother to test this empirically or to determine whether it's logically possible from an understanding of computer science
01:35:52 <elliott> kmc: right i knew they did the overriding compiler flags globally thing
01:36:15 <kmc> also I'm told that they have lots of special case hacks for particular packages in the homebrew core, in order to make the 'recipes' for those packages look nice and 'elegant'
01:36:19 <elliott> but i figure, this is os x, everything is lawless and probably nothing is actually integrated as well as it seems and everything is a black box
01:36:40 <kmc> so, why are you using os x again?
01:36:58 <elliott> because it would be a pain to use my main computer
01:37:15 <elliott> also it's technically worse than this one in basically every conceivable way except for having a bigger screen and running xmonad
01:39:19 <Fiora> kmc: so like I threw a bit more profiling at it and it looks like it's a little latency-bound on the pshufb+pmovmskb+store bit, which is kind of unsurprising I guess
01:39:47 <Fiora> at least I think that's what "stalled-cycles-backend" means?
01:39:59 <Fiora> when it has nothing to execute so the backend stalls
01:40:03 <Fiora> but I might be wrong
01:41:00 <kmc> 'backend' is, like, the box that hands out uops to functional units, or something?
01:41:51 <Fiora> I think "frontend" is like the instruction decoder/dispatch
01:41:54 <Fiora> and "backend" is execution?
01:42:07 -!- mnoqy has joined.
01:42:16 <Fiora> so a frontend stall I think means "nothing to decode, the instruction queue is full and the backend is busy"
01:42:22 <Fiora> and backend means "nothing to execute" ?
01:42:37 <Fiora> which I guess would mean... "I can't grab something off the uop queue this cycle" or something
01:42:41 <Fiora> I have no idea >_<
01:42:56 <Fiora> I could maybe look up that manual again... <.<
01:44:03 <shachaf> SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW is such a great codepoint.
01:57:44 <shachaf> kmc: What's a good Unicode codepoint to represent mempty?
01:57:57 <shachaf> > foldMap NLeaf (S.fromList [1,2,3,4])
01:57:59 <kappabot> (((mempty * 1) * mempty) * 2) * ((mempty * 3) * ((mempty * 4) * mempty))
01:58:04 <elliott> kmc: more OS X stories: clicked from the homebrew FAQ to a stack overflow question about setting paths so that GUI applications see the installed command-line stuff; it recommends setting up a shell script to launch at startup that runs an emacs lisp(!) script that works out the paths and shells out to launchctl
01:58:08 <kmc> Fiora: would it make sense to interleave two copies of the computation using disjoint sets of xmm registers
01:58:21 <elliott> it literally has no particular reason to be using elisp. it's just using elisp as a scripting language. holy shit
01:58:32 <kmc> would that improve utilization of the execution units?
01:58:46 <kmc> elliott: lool
01:59:00 <kmc> this is just the idea of someone on SO right
01:59:02 <Bike> "aren't you supposed to use Guile now"
01:59:12 <elliott> well the FAQ recommends the answer!!
01:59:14 <elliott> (find-file "~/.MacOSX/environment.plist")
01:59:14 <elliott> (setq start (search-forward "<dict>\n"))
01:59:14 <elliott> (search-forward "</dict>")
01:59:19 <elliott> (delete-region start (point))
01:59:22 <elliott> this is not how you are meant to do scripting tasks. help
01:59:53 <Bike> is it also using regexps for xml
02:00:37 <kmc> esr approved
02:01:18 <elliott> all i want to do is use proof general in emacs
02:01:38 <Bike> maybe you need that elisp script
02:02:00 <mnoqy> does macos not play nice with using proof general in emacs
02:02:19 <elliott> mnoqy: it's more homebrew i think
02:02:29 <mnoqy> have you tried agda-mode
02:02:33 <elliott> emacs can't find coqtop & i'm not sure why
02:03:31 <elliott> mnoqy: do you know where proof general looks for executables
02:04:02 <elliott> the emacs exec-path executable doesn't contain /usr/local/bin
02:04:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
02:04:59 <mnoqy> is that where homebrew puts stuff
02:05:12 <elliott> it also chowns /usr/local to your user
02:08:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:09:01 <elliott> kmc: hey what do you call the two functions of an isomorphism
02:09:11 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_).
02:10:02 <Sgeo> static vs dynamic typing debate is boring. More fun is whether or not static analysis is important
02:10:07 <Sgeo> Racket vs Kernel
02:12:02 <Bike> we need static analysis done dynamically obviously
02:12:16 <mnoqy> elliott: "thisaway" and "thattaway". alt an isomorphism is just a morphism -with- an inverse--of course you'll be including the inverse as part of the evidence it has one but just a matter of framing the thought and names
02:12:45 <mnoqy> Bike: what does that mean
02:15:02 <elliott> mnoqy: btw is there a nice way to get all the accessors of a record to have their record argument implicit
02:16:15 <shachaf> "hey did u know you can have a morphism which is an epimorphism and a monomorphism but not an isomorphism................................"
02:20:06 <Sgeo> So, I have a prgmr account
02:20:10 <Sgeo> Need to figure out what to do with it
02:20:38 <mnoqy> shouldn't you have figured that out before bothering to get the account
02:20:47 <kmc> that's not the Sgeo way
02:21:14 <Sgeo> I had a few ideas, but not sure how well they would work out
02:21:22 <Sgeo> Quassel is apparently a memory hog??
02:21:34 <kmc> how much ram do you have
02:22:33 <elliott> mnoqy: hey wheres decidable defined
02:22:39 <Bike> http://24.media.tumblr.com/70dd6d342b3cfa171257ae5f5db630eb/tumblr_mmfer8mZZc1s11g07o1_500.png pictured: sgeo
02:23:02 <shachaf> @ty foldMap NLeaf -- best function
02:23:03 <kappabot> forall (t :: * -> *) a. Foldable t => t a -> Nonoid a
02:23:54 <Sgeo> Dammit "I love ... they're so easy" has no 'm's
02:24:27 <shachaf> mnoqy: don t help elliott help me
02:24:29 <kmc> kappabot eh
02:24:32 <mnoqy> elliott: yeah im suffering from that joke too. we all are
02:24:49 <kappabot> http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
02:24:56 <kmc> @listchans
02:24:56 <kappabot> #esoteric #haskell #haskell-blah #haskell-lens #scannedinavian weird#
02:25:01 <kmc> what is weird#
02:25:06 <shachaf> mnoqy: help me write Traversable t => NLeaf b -> t a -> t b..............................................
02:25:14 <kmc> is #scannedinavian the shapr personal channel
02:25:16 <Sgeo> I bet there's a right-to-left mark
02:25:16 <mnoqy> elliott: which decidable are you looking for theres like 2 and idk if one of them is even explicitly defined
02:25:23 <kmc> also what happened to lambdabot
02:25:28 <elliott> mnoqy: the decidable P := P \/ ~P one
02:25:35 <shachaf> weird# is /query with $PERSON hth
02:25:44 <shachaf> i was going to put a name in but i couldn't think of anyone i wanted to call weird
02:25:54 <mnoqy> elliott: Logic.Decidable cant you look at the stdlib page for like 1s
02:25:56 <shachaf> i don't really like insulting people or being mean to them
02:26:29 <mnoqy> itd take less time than bothering me about it!
02:26:49 <elliott> mnoqy: i have looking at the stdlib page for like 1s-itis.....
02:27:00 <mnoqy> maybe u should take the pills
02:51:52 -!- olsner has joined.
02:52:13 <shachaf> > nonoid $ M.fromList [(1,1),(2,2)]
02:52:23 <shachaf> > > renoid ((mempty <> N 'a') <> ((mempty <> N 'b') <> mempty)) (M.fromList [(1,1),(2,2)])
02:52:25 <kappabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input `>'
02:52:26 <shachaf> > renoid ((mempty <> N 'a') <> ((mempty <> N 'b') <> mempty)) (M.fromList [(1,1),(2,2)])
02:52:28 <kappabot> fromList *Exception: Renoid (<*>): invalid structure (expected NAppend)
02:53:53 <shachaf> I broke the Applicative laws by defining fmap = liftA!
02:54:13 <shachaf> > renoid ((mempty <> N 'a') <> ((mempty <> N 'b') <> mempty)) (M.fromList [(1,1),(2,2)])
02:54:46 <kappabot> forall (t :: * -> *) b a. Traversable t => Nonoid b -> t a -> t b
02:55:10 <shachaf> Er, I mean: I broke the Applicative laws. Therefore fmap = liftA was invalid.
02:55:52 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-zeCXlFPjk so i guess we can confirm that shachaf is cute
02:56:42 <shachaf> i'm a dog????????????????????
02:56:52 <shachaf> i'd rather be uncute than be a dog
02:57:04 <kmc> even a cool lawbreaking dog?
02:57:10 <kmc> that runs around a golf course
02:57:17 <shachaf> kmc: are you talking about achewood now
02:57:20 <kmc> that dog is so happy
02:57:26 <kmc> no i'm talking about the video that Bike linked!!!!!!
02:57:34 <shachaf> not watching dog videos hth
02:57:59 <kappabot> Did YOU find a DIGITAL WATCH in YOUR box of VELVEETA?
02:58:29 <kmc> this video is adorable
02:58:49 <Bike> he's so excited to destroy the moral fabric of society
02:59:39 <Sgeo> I should look into icecast streaming my .midis
02:59:42 <kmc> i think the point of dogs is that they're so happy all the time for no reason
02:59:48 <kmc> at least some dogs?
02:59:56 <kmc> it makes one happy just to be around such a creature
03:00:05 <kmc> 'might not work if they could talk'
03:00:25 <Bike> or if you read Where The Red Fern Grows too many times
03:00:32 <shachaf> kmc: you should read raymond smullyan's things....................
03:00:36 <shachaf> he talks about dogs and things
03:00:50 <shachaf> he even has an answer to "Does a dog have buddha nature?"
03:01:26 <kmc> glad that's settled
03:01:38 <Bike> cool, now i don't need to behead my disciple
03:02:52 <kmc> Fiora: I think the pseudocode assembly is slightly hard to follow; I don't know what line0[0] means exactly
03:03:06 <kmc> but the actual code is nice and readable! (once I found a 7z extracter :)
03:03:48 <elliott> kmc: you should use deco!!
03:03:52 <elliott> it's what the hip kids use to extract archives
03:03:55 <Bike> i didn't even know i had a 7z extractor but there's 7za for some reason
03:04:12 <Bike> it has the highest compression ratio, according to man. good format!!
03:04:28 <kmc> according to man and beast
03:04:44 <Bike> beast's manuals are pretty unreliable tbh
03:04:55 <kmc> BEAST and CRIME
03:07:42 <olsner> 7z is pretty crappy, except for the clever deflate compression that's able to make compatible zip files smaller
03:10:38 <olsner> (it's probably good at other kinds of compression too, but other programs can also do that)
03:15:29 <shachaf> kmc: I need an *alphanumeric* character to represent mempty.
03:17:32 <Bike> Why does it need to be alphanumeric, out of curiosity
03:17:53 <olsner> so that it is allowed as a haskell identifier I guess
03:18:38 <kappabot> 'h' ∙ ('e' ∙ ('l' ∙ ('l' ∙ ('o' ∙ ø))))
03:18:53 <kmc> hönan agda
03:19:12 <shachaf> > renoid ('h' ∙ ('e' ∙ ('l' ∙ ('l' ∙ ('o' ∙ ø))))) "eliot"
03:19:13 <kappabot> Couldn't match expected type `L.Nonoid b0'
03:19:33 <shachaf> Should I add Ns everywhere?
03:19:54 <kappabot> N 'h' ∙ (N 'e' ∙ (N 'l' ∙ (N 'l' ∙ (N 'o' ∙ ø))))
03:20:15 <shachaf> > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing]
03:20:23 <shachaf> I guess I need to get my precedence right.
03:20:28 <shachaf> > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing]
03:20:38 <shachaf> > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing]
03:20:43 <shachaf> > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing]
03:21:43 <shachaf> > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing]
03:28:16 -!- jconn has joined.
03:29:02 <Fiora> kmc: okay I'll go try to define those more clearly!
03:29:21 <Sgeo> I keep seeing jconn join but have never seen it leave
03:29:38 <Bike> `pastelog jcon.*has left
03:30:18 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3708
03:30:46 <Bike> you win this round
03:31:20 <Fiora> kmc: okay, added an extra paragraph, I hope that makes slightly more sense
03:31:36 <Fiora> and um, sorry for using 7z
03:31:38 <Fiora> I'm a dumb windows user
03:31:39 <kmc> that was quick!
03:31:56 <kmc> yeah, this makes more sense now
03:32:49 <Fiora> sorry, I kind of did that *flail flail must quickly add and fix things* thing <.<
03:33:07 <shachaf> are you apologizing for being too quick
03:34:04 <Fiora> I.... I guess I am
03:34:10 <Fiora> I'm apologizing for rushing it.
03:35:07 <Sgeo> What's wrong with 7z?
03:35:20 <Fiora> linux seems to like xz and windows likes 7z?
03:35:32 <Bike> nothing really, it's just not common on linux
03:35:44 <Fiora> and they're like, two variants of the same thing
03:36:14 <shachaf> So why wouldn't you use 7z?
03:36:20 <shachaf> Since you use Windows and all.
03:38:03 <Fiora> um... because I'm sending things to linux users I guess? :< I don't know
03:39:53 <kmc> it took about 2 seconds to install a 7z decompressor so, no worries
03:43:41 <shachaf> now when you need 7z and are pressed for time, you'll already have it
03:44:57 <olsner> e.g. when terrorists invade and the only vial of antidote is 7z compressed
03:53:40 <shachaf> > let! a = undefined in ()
03:54:04 <copumpkin> [23:53:37] <shachaf> OK, this isn't the channel for misleading syntax.
03:54:18 <mnoqy> shachaf: bang patterns?
03:54:32 <shachaf> mnoqy: it's let-bang obviously hth
03:54:46 <olsner> copumpkin: was that from #haskell?
03:55:44 <olsner> obviously this *is* the channel for misleading syntax
03:56:26 <shachaf> @let set! x y = y `seq` writeIORef x y
03:56:32 <shachaf> @let set!x y = y `seq` writeIORef x y
03:56:44 <shachaf> @ty let set! x y = y `seq` writeIORef x y in ()
03:57:13 <Bike> i don't get the problem with "let a = undefined in ()"?
03:57:32 <shachaf> > let set! x y = "hi" in ()
03:57:55 <Bike> doesn't that just...
03:58:01 <Bike> > let set! x y = "hi" in set! 4 5
03:58:02 <kappabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Arr.Array i0 e0'
03:58:15 <Bike> ok well i don't know anything
04:12:40 -!- comex has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me).
04:12:55 -!- comex has joined.
04:45:00 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving).
04:48:06 -!- conehead has joined.
04:54:29 -!- Puffball has joined.
04:58:33 -!- lifthras1ir has changed nick to lifthrasiir.
05:00:14 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
05:47:28 -!- SingingBoyo has joined.
05:51:35 <shachaf> "The defense of this practice offered by Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, who as chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee is supposed to be preventing this sort of overreaching, was absurd. She said on Thursday that the authorities need this information in case someone might become a terrorist in the future."
06:20:28 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
06:29:56 -!- function has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
06:35:27 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Gotta go).
06:47:50 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
06:59:21 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined.
07:04:25 -!- variable has joined.
07:35:22 -!- rntz^2_ has changed nick to rntz.
07:36:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
07:37:05 -!- ais523 has quit.
07:38:53 <HackEgo> rntz: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
07:48:18 -!- nooga_ has joined.
07:52:40 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
07:53:48 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
07:54:54 -!- nooodl_ has joined.
08:02:13 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
08:02:14 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
08:05:26 -!- olsner has joined.
08:12:09 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:20:20 -!- nooga_ has joined.
08:27:50 -!- olsner has joined.
08:40:43 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
08:52:56 -!- olsner has joined.
08:54:32 -!- nooodl has joined.
08:56:00 -!- Taneb has joined.
08:57:48 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
09:06:57 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
09:07:31 -!- kappabot has left.
09:10:52 -!- lambdabot has joined.
09:11:13 -!- olsner has joined.
09:25:20 -!- glogbackup has joined.
09:31:28 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
09:44:20 -!- olsner has joined.
09:59:53 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:12:21 -!- olsner has joined.
10:13:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
10:27:13 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
10:39:50 -!- olsner has joined.
10:47:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
10:51:38 -!- Taneb has joined.
10:59:55 -!- olsner has joined.
11:05:02 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
11:18:12 -!- olsner has joined.
11:29:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
11:30:51 -!- nooodl_ has joined.
11:32:59 <hagb4rd> how are things going oklodroog?
11:33:08 -!- Koen_ has joined.
11:34:04 <oklopol> we are finishing a 40 page paper on categories; i still don't know the definition of a monad, and i barely understand adjoint functors.
11:34:04 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:34:13 <hagb4rd> yes i'm doing good.. made some decicions i pushed forward too long
11:34:33 <hagb4rd> oh don't want to point that out
11:34:36 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
11:34:42 -!- jix has joined.
11:35:23 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje).
11:35:40 -!- Koen_ has joined.
11:41:41 -!- olsner has joined.
11:45:32 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello).
11:52:10 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
11:57:59 -!- ThePoster32 has joined.
11:57:59 <ThePoster32> Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info
11:57:59 -!- ThePoster32 has left.
12:04:20 -!- carado has joined.
12:04:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
12:05:26 -!- olsner has joined.
12:16:33 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
12:20:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
12:25:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
12:28:54 -!- olsner has joined.
12:33:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
12:33:28 -!- mnoqy has joined.
12:33:32 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
12:38:16 -!- quintopia has joined.
12:41:28 <oklopol> [14:57:48] <ThePoster32> Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info
12:42:06 <oklopol> in case someone here wants to take someone offline friends.
12:45:30 -!- olsner has joined.
12:50:08 <oklopol> okay i'm going to take offline friends
12:50:09 -!- oklopol has left.
12:50:17 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
13:01:29 -!- boily has joined.
13:01:58 <boily> @tell oerjan WHACK!
13:06:17 -!- ThePoster62 has joined.
13:06:17 <ThePoster62> Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info
13:06:17 <ThePoster62> http://ibooter.us || http://ibooter.info Join us !
13:06:17 -!- ThePoster62 has left.
13:08:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
13:13:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
13:17:39 <Phantom__Hoover> i should stop reading this but i can't and i continue to have this overwhelming urge to punch things
13:18:32 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover, imo read phantom-hoover.tumblr.com hth
13:19:03 <Taneb> i'm secretly fizzie
13:28:59 <mnoqy> i dont read "the oatmeal"
13:30:33 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
13:39:47 <elliott> Taneb: afaik, that never happened
13:40:12 <Taneb> I seem to recall being there when it did?
13:40:33 <Taneb> But saying that I sometimes insert myself into stories
13:40:51 <elliott> you might be thinking of the time when people fed a troll for ~10 minutes and they said they'd "learn haskell" and then never came back
13:41:05 <elliott> and then paraded this as somehow some kind of good way to deal with trolls
13:41:20 <elliott> hoo boy, new esolang "LOLScript"
13:41:29 <elliott> It is based off of the Lua scripting language and is similar to LOLCODE, though with more recent memes and stuff.
13:41:46 <mnoqy> thhanks for informing me i'll check it out
13:42:03 <Taneb> If he never came back, isn't that the definition of a good way of dealing with trolls?
13:42:09 <elliott> I like the idea of there being new revisions of the LOLCode standard adjusted to handle new memes
13:42:09 <Taneb> Maybe not the best way, but...
13:42:20 <elliott> Taneb: no because they occupied the channel for ages first
13:42:36 <elliott> the very first thing they said was obviously bannable, so...
13:42:53 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: replying to a statement made in another channel to avoid derailing the topic!!
13:43:11 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover, dunno, it never happened
13:43:42 <Taneb> elliott, I stand corrected
13:43:42 <Deewiant> Phantom__Hoover: 07.16:39:23 Taneb | Remember the time there was a troll in here and he ended up learning Haskell?
13:44:02 <mnoqy> urgh, lolscript is bad
13:44:08 <Taneb> I am in SO MANY CHANNELS it's scary
13:44:32 <elliott> homotopy type theory is so weird
13:44:59 <Phantom__Hoover> i'm pretty sure homotopy is ants walking around spheres and suc
13:45:17 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover, we are all nought but ants walking around spheres
13:45:24 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: it relates the type theory equality to homotopy
13:45:59 <Taneb> elliott, weird arcane pseudogeometry weird?
13:46:07 <Taneb> Problem Sleuth weird?
13:46:19 <Taneb> There are many kinds of weird
13:46:20 <Phantom__Hoover> remember that guy on /r/math who was talking about homotopy type theory
13:46:29 <Phantom__Hoover> and you were all like "oh well what does he know about constructivism"
13:47:03 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: like you have a type I
13:47:34 <elliott> and I-rec : forall P (a b : P), a = b -> I -> P
13:47:45 <elliott> where I-rec P a b H zero = a
13:48:15 <elliott> and this is somehow not a pointless waste of time because = represents ~paths~
13:48:49 <elliott> kmc: did you know you're a troll
13:58:40 <elliott> now you'll encourage people to do it the next time too
14:03:41 -!- ThePoster62 has joined.
14:03:41 <ThePoster62> Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info
14:03:42 <ThePoster62> http://ibooter.us || http://ibooter.info Join us !
14:03:42 -!- ThePoster62 has left.
14:06:29 <nooodl_> p.s. remember visual befunge
14:07:15 -!- Vorpal has joined.
14:08:53 <Vorpal> Strange, my RPi just rebooted by itself about an hour ago. Before I was home.
14:09:28 <Vorpal> There is nothing of note in the logs either
14:12:26 -!- jsvine has joined.
14:23:04 -!- oonbotti has joined.
14:31:02 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined.
14:33:52 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello).
14:34:33 -!- oerjan has joined.
14:34:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
14:38:21 -!- MindlessDrone has joined.
14:39:59 <oerjan> eek it's a drone everybody duck!
14:39:59 <lambdabot> oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
14:44:23 <oerjan> <elliott> mnoqy: btw is there a nice way to get all the accessors of a record to have their record argument implicit <-- that's what .. wildcards are for hth
14:44:46 <oerjan> (which i know you already hate, making this rather paradoxical)
14:45:22 <oerjan> unless this isn't haskell. i suppose it could be coq or something.
14:47:20 <oerjan> <shachaf> "hey did u know you can have a morphism which is an epimorphism and a monomorphism but not an isomorphism................................" <-- yes
14:47:45 <oerjan> not in Set, of course.
14:50:33 -!- ThePoster60 has joined.
14:50:33 <ThePoster60> Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info
14:50:34 <ThePoster60> http://ibooter.us || http://ibooter.info Join us !
14:50:34 -!- ThePoster60 has left.
14:50:56 <elliott> oerjan: you sshould ban 212.150.184.98 hth
14:51:43 <oerjan> has this happened before?
14:53:09 <coppro> will this happen again?
14:54:28 <oerjan> ooh the monoid example is so easy: "In the category of monoids, Mon, the inclusion map N → Z is a non-surjective epimorphism."
14:54:55 <oerjan> which is good since the topology example i was thinking of apparently is wrong
14:57:30 <oerjan> "It is a common mistake to believe that epimorphisms are either identical to surjections or that they are a better concept. Unfortunately this is rarely the case; epimorphisms can be very mysterious and have unexpected behavior. It is very difficult, for example, to classify all the epimorphisms of rings. In general, epimorphisms are their own unique concept, related to surjections but fundamentally different."
14:57:38 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
14:58:09 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@212.150.184.98.
14:58:29 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
15:01:27 <elliott> hmm, my down arrow key is not working perfectly.
15:01:50 <oerjan> it's just the down keeping you, man
15:02:55 <elliott> this is going to be a problem
15:05:39 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `NLeaf'
15:05:57 <oerjan> apparently it's a ver kappa thing
15:06:25 <oerjan> *+y i think my keys aren't working perfectly either
15:07:04 <elliott> Phantom___Hoover: recalling lines on irc!
15:08:30 <elliott> great, the down arrow key is just... not responding at all
15:08:39 <elliott> why the fuck do the keyboard problems always happen to me
15:09:29 <elliott> oerjan: do you know how to go down in the irc line history in irssi...
15:09:32 <elliott> (withotu using down arrow)
15:12:47 <oerjan> /bind whateveryouwant down
15:13:34 <oerjan> actually there's a /bind down forwardhistory
15:14:22 <elliott> oerjan: except it's unbearable elsewhere too.
15:14:27 <elliott> like, choosing URL completinos
15:14:45 -!- olsner has joined.
15:14:45 <elliott> also, I still use arrow keys out of habit when editing files :(
15:15:46 <Taneb> elliott, you should always have at least 2 backup keyboards!
15:15:52 <oerjan> * /bind whateveryouwant key down
15:21:05 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:27:33 <boily> nooodl_: please hold while we redirect your call... ♪
15:27:33 <lambdabot> boily: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
15:27:56 -!- metasepia has joined.
15:34:50 -!- conehead has joined.
15:36:38 -!- olsner has joined.
15:38:58 <oerjan> <elliott> I like the idea of there being new revisions of the LOLCode standard adjusted to handle new memes <-- does it include the harlem shake twh
15:39:46 <oerjan> `learn twh would help.
15:39:50 <Taneb> I used to do the harlem shake, but ain't nobody got time for that
15:41:25 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
15:47:09 <oerjan> Taneb: thx now i'm up to date
15:47:11 <boily> `? twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.
15:47:13 <HackEgo> twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.? ¯\(°_o)/¯
15:47:19 <boily> `learn twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.
15:47:47 <oerjan> `? misspellings of croissant
15:47:49 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
15:48:46 <oerjan> time for an apple, got to shake of these there darn doctors
15:53:22 <boily> let's do the haapple shake. *woob woob woob*
15:53:59 -!- olsner has joined.
15:56:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
15:57:21 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
16:00:01 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
16:01:11 -!- Taneb has joined.
16:02:07 <elliott> 'o;sfjklbe `p[eklvntzklgsm
16:02:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: [B: not found
16:02:09 <oerjan> did you do /bind space key down or something
16:02:37 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection timed out).
16:03:56 <oerjan> can you open the relevant setting file in an editor? actually open the editor and then the file, i guess
16:04:25 <elliott> i don't think there is such a file but i have downloaded some key remapping software that will maybe let me disable down key
16:05:50 <oerjan> i suppose this is somehow like writing without e, but worse
16:06:21 <coppro> elliott: you got spaces back!
16:07:00 <oerjan> oh so he did maybe i should pay attention
16:08:19 <oerjan> i wonder if someone has made puzzles based on most of your keyboard not working
16:09:35 <oerjan> say, having only the left half up to the "6" key
16:10:40 <oerjan> Taneb: how did you manage to press return twh
16:10:52 <Taneb> oerjan, I have at least two backup keyboards
16:11:15 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. (see also: d-modules)
16:12:05 <oerjan> `learn Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards. (see also: d-modules)
16:12:19 <oerjan> i felt this was important information.
16:12:23 <Taneb> (I actually do have two spare keyboards)
16:12:51 -!- olsner has joined.
16:12:57 <oerjan> i think this is important enough to stay in wisdom even if it is accurate.
16:13:07 <Taneb> (one's an old PS/2 keyboard because I can't edit BIOS settings with a USB one for some reason, and my PS/2 keyboard is really clacky)
16:16:21 <oerjan> his mind is going, he can feel it
16:17:11 <elliott> and i have a replacement down key
16:17:13 <elliott> in the form of shift-right
16:17:49 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
16:19:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
16:26:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
16:27:58 <Koen_> problems with iour keiboard, again?
16:29:21 -!- nooga_ has joined.
16:31:43 -!- olsner has joined.
16:40:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
16:41:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
16:52:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
16:53:04 -!- olsner has joined.
17:01:12 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
17:02:31 <quintopia> i've started using egojsout as a js benchmark
17:09:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
17:12:09 -!- ThePoster56 has joined.
17:12:09 <ThePoster56> Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info
17:12:09 -!- ThePoster56 has left.
17:13:44 -!- olsner has joined.
17:16:55 <elliott> maybe i should report it in #freenode
17:17:33 <oerjan> i assumed it was consistent since elliott asked me to ban the ip hth
17:18:07 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
17:18:21 -!- Taneb has joined.
17:18:25 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*@212.150.184.98.
17:18:32 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@212.150.184.*.
17:18:39 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
17:19:39 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
17:19:50 <oerjan> no reverse lookup even on 212.0.0.0
17:20:06 <oerjan> can't be important then.
17:21:41 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
17:21:54 <oerjan> elliott: did you report
17:22:08 <oerjan> is it showing up in #haskell as well?
17:22:43 <elliott> so i don't care enough to report :p
17:32:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
17:34:36 -!- olsner has joined.
17:43:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
18:22:46 -!- zzo38 has joined.
18:23:27 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: leaving).
18:30:26 -!- myname has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:30:52 -!- myname has joined.
18:43:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
18:45:15 -!- Bike has joined.
18:52:31 -!- FreeFull has joined.
19:00:38 <Phantom_Hoover> OK so having completed Gunpoint, the obvious question now is 'is it TC'
19:09:34 <oerjan> "In fact, the electric force trying to push the two protons in a helium nucleus apart is comparable to the weight of a truck!"
19:13:00 <Phantom_Hoover> aren't the two protons in a helium atom in the same 'place'
19:14:15 <FreeFull> At least, not if I understand the Pauli Exclusion Principle right
19:14:40 <FreeFull> Hmm, unless there is something differing between the two protons other than position
19:14:59 <oerjan> they don't have exact positions anyway
19:15:50 <oerjan> i'm reading http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/the-known-forces-of-nature/the-strength-of-the-known-forces/ btw
19:17:47 <Phantom_Hoover> The symmetries of a helium nucleus have no translational components.
19:18:24 <Phantom_Hoover> (I've read that the nucleus is spherically symmetric, so that seems accurate.)
19:19:21 <oerjan> well i take it that means the protons have the same _average_ position, which because they're waves doesn't mean they cannot also have a non-zero average distance.
19:21:05 <oerjan> or rather, their combined state is a wave function in 6 dimensions or so.
19:22:16 <elliott> they are not allowed to exist now
19:22:51 <oerjan> and that's if you assume the forces are weak enough that you can do with only quantum mechanics, not full quantum field theory; the article mentions something about that.
19:24:46 <boily> elliott: I knew that atoms were Canadian at heart.
19:26:05 <elliott> oerjan: do you understand homotopy type theory
19:26:12 <Fiora> energy is force-over-distance; isn't part of the reason the "force" is so strong because it's over a super super short distance?
19:26:37 <oerjan> elliott: even worse than i understand quantum field theory.
19:26:50 <Fiora> so like, breaking apart the two protons still requires a microscopic amount of energy, even though the force is macroscopic?
19:38:01 -!- coppro has joined.
19:51:39 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Quit: Leaving).
19:55:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Fiora, the strong force actually doesn't attenuate past a certain point
19:55:30 -!- TeruFSX has joined.
19:56:01 <Phantom_Hoover> if you have, like, a quark and an antiquark of complementary colour a metre apart in a vacuum they produce something like 10^5N of force
19:57:38 <Phantom_Hoover> the intranuclear forces do though because they're between bound quarks
19:58:01 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:05:05 <Fiora> Phantom_Hoover: I thought if you pull them too far apart you just get quark-antiquark pairs?
20:05:26 <Fiora> so you can't actually pull them a meter away from each other really
20:06:07 -!- Taneb has joined.
20:06:12 <Phantom_Hoover> they are pretty much constant beyond a certain distance, though
20:20:11 <nooodl_> guys http://i.imgur.com/X6XGqp8.png
20:33:22 <nooodl_> if you have pygame and wanna test this: http://bpaste.net/show/1pfyaHB9PS08lDoYRR2O/
20:33:48 <nooodl_> mind, it's very crashy at the moment.
20:34:21 <nooodl_> also the torus doesn't wrap yet...
20:35:44 <nooodl_> wait i'm a fucking idiot. it needs the graphics of course
20:36:07 <boily> File "chose.py", line 147
20:36:09 <boily> elif tile == 'add': bin_op(lambda a, b: a + b)
20:36:12 <boily> File "chose.py", line 35
20:36:14 <boily> def in_field((x, y)): return y < HEIGHT * 16
20:36:18 <boily> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
20:36:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
20:36:28 <nooodl_> no just in general; it won't run without the thingies
20:37:10 <nooodl_> also im bad for pasting the wrong thing
20:38:23 <nooodl_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15495351/visualbefunge.zip here
20:38:34 <nooodl_> boily: make sure you run it in python 2.7
20:38:55 <nooodl_> i think that second complaint is because python 3 removed the argument unpacking syntax
20:39:02 <nooodl_> (why did that happen???????)
20:39:22 <boily> the first complaint comes from python 2.7.5.
20:39:38 <boily> it chokes on the elif.
20:39:50 <nooodl_> yeah i've fixed that one now
20:41:14 <elliott> b/c pattern matching is too useful for guido
20:41:42 <nooodl_> and fucking, case statements, ugh
20:44:00 <elliott> case statements are pattern matching nooodl_!!
20:44:05 -!- SingingBoyo has joined.
20:44:07 <elliott> also sum types, I forgot sum types
20:44:44 <metasepia> Used to refer to that one previously mentioned.
20:47:44 -!- dessos has joined.
20:49:03 <boily> pyskellman, and his arch-nemesis, visualjavaman!
20:49:32 <nooodl_> if so i have some exciting interface things to explain!!
20:50:21 <boily> nooodl_: no can do. we're in a rush here, trying to buckle up patches for a release.
20:50:27 <boily> yeah for fun friday nights... :(
20:51:59 <boily> elliott: we're working on a [REDACTED] that will go in [REDACTED].
20:52:19 <elliott> boily: making me more curious is forbidden.
20:55:27 -!- Taneb has joined.
20:56:05 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
21:00:13 <oerjan> elliott: well as you clearly see, they're making an SCP hth
21:00:40 <boily> oerjan: if only. for now, all it does it sit here and spew various error messages.
21:04:00 <oerjan> that's what you _think_ it does.
21:06:34 <boily> twist: I don't think.
21:06:51 <oerjan> that may be for the best.
21:09:50 -!- olsner has joined.
21:11:35 -!- olsner_ has joined.
21:12:46 <boily> olsner_ is olsner's evil goatee twin.
21:13:06 <olsner_> are there two of me? which one am I?
21:14:13 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
21:14:46 <boily> olsner_: I think the barred version of you is the only one left.
21:14:57 <boily> what have you done? which crime have you perpetrated? you monster!
21:15:06 -!- olsner_ has changed nick to olsner.
21:18:16 <boily> and now you're evading law and impersonating an innocent bystander... what are the next unspeakable horrific limits you'll cross?
21:18:55 <olsner> I have done no such thing
21:19:46 <olsner> that olsner_ was horrible though
21:24:25 * boily wields his eviltwinon counter... *beep*... *beep*... *beep*... *BEEEEEEEEEEEP*!
21:25:11 <boily> the machine does not lie. obey the computer. please report to the nearest alpha-complex termination center. thanks for your gentle coöperation!
21:25:40 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:25:46 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone).
21:25:49 <boily> no, not Taneb, olsner.
21:26:45 <oerjan> twist: we are _all_ evil twins.
21:28:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
21:30:30 -!- mumm-ra has joined.
21:31:18 <boily> oerjan: speak for yourself. I'm a pure and chaste Canadian.
21:31:39 <oerjan> ok, all of us that _exist_ are evil twins.
21:33:00 <oerjan> i sense a flaw in the vowel recognition here
21:34:28 <HackEgo> Thanks, Dan Rather. Than Rather.
21:34:48 <elliott> what's the frequency, kenneth?
21:36:46 <oerjan> what's the vector, victor
21:37:43 <elliott> oh it's a reference to that film i haven't seen
21:38:04 <oerjan> isn't that like, everything.
21:38:11 <boily> http://youtu.be/50k_nl6Q4vs
21:38:29 <elliott> what isn't, like, everything?
21:41:57 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
21:44:45 <HackEgo> 2013-06-07 03:39:53: <kmc> it took about 2 seconds to install a 7z decompressor so, no worries
21:44:59 -!- mumm-ra has left.
21:44:59 <shachaf> what time zone are you in HackEgo
21:45:52 <shachaf> imo `seen should use my time zone
21:46:05 <shachaf> alt. say "so and so many billion years ago"
21:47:04 <oerjan> itym "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" hth
21:47:50 <oerjan> shachaf is the reincarnation of either darth vader or jar-jar binks
21:48:14 <oerjan> `learn itym "i think you mean" hth
21:48:20 <boily> I'd go with jar-jar. more safe.
21:49:19 <boily> if I ever get the urge to punch it, jar-jar is more squishy. all these electronics are sharp and may cut my knuckles off.
22:01:56 <shachaf> kmc: look at http://shachaf.net/sel.html with firefox
22:02:10 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:03:27 <kmc> 'applications of de bruijn sequences'
22:03:36 <shachaf> no de bruijn sequences necessary
22:03:53 <shachaf> a de bruijn sequence containing every possible n-character password would be p. big.......
22:04:08 <Fiora> what does it do in firefox?
22:04:42 <shachaf> It figures out your password as you search for it.
22:05:00 <Fiora> wow it breaks really badly when I try to select text
22:05:04 <Fiora> ... I think it crashed firefox :/
22:05:25 <Fiora> yeah, I had to kill it
22:05:48 <shachaf> Well, I didn't have to kill it.
22:05:55 <boily> my firefox must be special. it doesn't do much.
22:06:03 <shachaf> boily: Did you ^F-search for your password?
22:06:24 <boily> shachaf: I /-ed my password. I have pentadactyl :D
22:06:52 <elliott> shachaf: btw why does it use <pre>s weirdly
22:07:04 <boily> hey, I work at a linux promoting company, of course I'm a nerd.
22:07:32 <elliott> shachaf: well it does some weird thing turning it into <li>s???
22:07:53 <shachaf> the <li>s are inside a <ul>
22:08:05 <shachaf> and that's probably not actually necessary but i thought it was necessary before
22:08:22 <kmc> shachaf: you can probably do something adaptive to generate the text as the user searches for it
22:08:51 <shachaf> kmc: Yep, I thought of that but didn't want to bother.
22:09:03 <shachaf> But it can look as if you're really finding passwords in the document.
22:09:29 <nooodl_> is it supposed to just display the thing i'm searching for at the top of the page
22:09:54 <kmc> shachaf: one idea i liked from Tangled Web is, you do something that invokes a scary confirmation dialog (e.g. downloading an exe, granting camera privileges) and then you pop up a browser window over the dialog, with a link right over the "confirm" button in the dialog
22:10:08 <kmc> and you extrapolate mouse movements to determine when the user is about to click the button
22:10:12 <kmc> and close the window just before they do
22:10:16 -!- sacje has joined.
22:10:21 <kmc> click the innocuous link, i mean
22:10:24 <Fiora> that's incredibly evil
22:10:40 <Fiora> isnt there also like, a thing wher eyou get someone to click a link by putting a frame above it but making the click go through it?
22:11:06 <kmc> well, I know of the reverse, where you put the real target in an invisible iframe floating over the innocuous link
22:11:08 <boily> Fiora: I tried that one with the fram. never managed to pull it off, sadly.
22:11:10 <kmc> that's clickjacking
22:11:14 <kmc> but probably you can do both
22:11:15 <shachaf> Hmm, I once found a nice instance of that but I don't think I can talk about it.
22:11:46 <kmc> also you can like... embed an iframe of the target site, size and scroll it so that only a tiny part of the target link is visible, and plop that within an innocuous link
22:12:05 <Fiora> kmc: could you do that by picking a word on the target site and plopping it in another site?
22:12:11 <kmc> I think so
22:12:16 <Fiora> like if you need a link that says "foo", find a link on the other site that says "foo", and iframe it
22:12:19 <Fiora> to make it look like your foo link
22:13:05 <elliott> "Click here for more information about phishing attempts that get you to Close your Bank Account"
22:13:18 <elliott> too bad it only works if they click the last four words
22:13:27 <elliott> that would be the lamest phish ever really
22:14:05 <kmc> Fiora: did you see http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/yahh/
22:14:16 <boily> elliott: all phishes are lame. that's the point.
22:14:30 <Bike> small screen discrimination!!
22:14:50 <elliott> Fiora: it's really great, try playing it for a few minutes
22:14:52 <Fiora> oh, it hides links under the asteroids
22:15:20 <Bike> https://twitter.com/PRISM_NSA
22:15:25 <elliott> it actually does something really clever with the links, not just making you click them
22:15:53 <kmc> some of the asteroids are links, and they're visible iff you've visited that site
22:15:55 <elliott> i think the guy who made it has a blog post explaining it? maybe kmc has a link
22:16:12 <Fiora> oh, so it's a way of seeing which sites you've visited in the past?
22:16:14 <kmc> http://lcamtuf.blogspot.com/2013/05/some-harmless-old-fashioned-fun-with-css.html
22:16:22 <kmc> if you play long enough it pops up an alert telling you :3
22:17:32 <Fiora> so all the other asteroids are black, and so they don't appear
22:17:37 <Fiora> but ones corresponding to sites you've visited show up
22:17:41 <Fiora> because you can adjust the color
22:17:45 <Fiora> and the "link" is a circle
22:20:27 <Phantom_Hoover> so according to this thing i've visited playboy but not wikipedia
22:21:05 <boily> there is a disturbingly high number of mnoqy quotes in the learndb.
22:21:10 <Bike> why the hell would you visit playboy, there's so uch better porn out there
22:21:18 <Bike> bad imo, phantom
22:21:29 <Phantom_Hoover> well as ais pointed out the articles are actually the only reason to read it these days
22:21:37 <kmc> playboy was an early open source mirror
22:22:42 <shachaf> elliott: There you go, no <li>s.
22:22:58 <elliott> now my esolangs.org mirror of it is outdated!
22:23:59 -!- mnoqy has joined.
22:24:00 <shachaf> Is setInterval(go, 0); or function go() { ...; setTimeout(go, 0); } better?
22:24:37 <kmc> the latter is more flexible
22:25:08 <shachaf> I mean with 0 specifically.
22:25:12 <shachaf> I suppose it doesn't matter.
22:25:28 <kmc> i'm not sure
22:26:50 <shachaf> I don't think there are selection events so I just loop.
22:30:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
22:30:26 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:42:33 -!- nooga_ has joined.
22:48:17 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
22:50:30 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:53:50 <kmc> i thought there are such events
22:53:52 <kmc> but not sure
22:53:53 -!- ThePoster56 has joined.
22:53:53 <ThePoster56> Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info
22:53:53 -!- ThePoster56 has left.
22:54:09 <elliott> I nominate kmc to report that bot in #freenode
22:54:45 <oerjan> seems it changed to a completely different ip range
22:54:46 <elliott> I disnominate Phantom_Hoover from joining other IRC channels for any purpose ever :P
22:54:58 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
22:55:14 <elliott> however, opping me is fine
22:55:22 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b ThePoster*!*@*.
22:55:32 <Bike> @tell ThePoster56 normally i avoid complaining about grammar but that was incomprehensible!! how do you expect successful advertising with such a poor presentation
22:55:48 <oerjan> Bike: the last number part changes
22:56:00 <Bike> oerjan i'm.. not expecting them to actually read it...
22:56:41 <elliott> Bike. now lambdabot has to remember that FOREVER.
22:57:08 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!~COS@*.
22:57:15 <Bike> and what a memory it shall be.
22:57:32 <elliott> oerjan: um how about banning ThePoster* instead
22:57:38 <elliott> the hostname was LOL before
22:57:43 <oerjan> elliott: um i already did?
22:57:44 <elliott> in fact, why didn't I ask you to do that originally...
22:57:58 <elliott> i am quite blind, apparently :/
22:58:18 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@62.233.41.*.
22:58:18 <Bike> do we have *.aq banned
22:58:59 <Bike> nothing much to do in that freaking desert but make brainfuck derivatives
22:59:01 <Bike> you almost pity them
22:59:22 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
22:59:24 <Fiora> http://www.mcmurdodryvalleys.aq/
22:59:26 <Bike> but then they come back around with "hey!! i encoded [] as penguins!!!" and you remember why they're banned
22:59:37 <elliott> bike just wants to make sure i can't tell you guys about our fun adventures when we go to antarctica
23:00:04 <Bike> the dry valleys are the second most lifeless place i can think of on earth
23:00:24 <Bike> the biggest living things there are nematodes, closely followed by elliott (HEIGHT JOKE)
23:00:50 <elliott> i think i got taller recently, preemptive rip height jokes
23:01:02 <Fiora> oh come on he's taller than me <.<
23:01:15 <Bike> #1 is the polar plateau because there like aren't even microorganisms
23:02:02 <shachaf> but are there microörganisms
23:02:29 <Fiora> Bike: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/AntarcticaDomeCSnow.jpg wooooow
23:02:33 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
23:03:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
23:03:51 <Bike> Fiora: basically
23:04:17 <elliott> barren lifeless flat hellscapes are the best
23:04:34 <Fiora> also bike did you get bored making height jokes about me so it has to be about elliott now
23:04:38 <elliott> and that's why i live in hexham
23:04:43 <Fiora> not that I'm complaining but
23:05:01 <Bike> the only comparable picture i can think of is http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Northern_Chukotka.JPG but i bet there are nematodes
23:05:12 <Bike> Fiora: elliott is worse than you, so
23:09:22 <shachaf> hey you should make height jokes about me
23:09:42 <shachaf> make height jokes about kmc
23:09:58 <Fiora> worse than me at what? :<
23:10:25 <Bike> just in general
23:12:00 <shachaf> kmc: if you were a commercial gps you would be so off right now
23:12:43 <Fiora> I don't think he's worse than me...
23:19:07 <Phantom__Hoover> you're from america, with its boundless reclaimed meat and corn syrup
23:19:38 <Phantom__Hoover> elliott has lived on the measly, shrivelled mosses that grow on the scree from the coal mines
23:20:31 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: it is actually a moss mine, unfortunately the north ran out of coal
23:20:53 <Fiora> but why does this make him worse than me? or something
23:22:36 <Fiora> I..... I don't really get what you're imply but um okay
23:22:39 <Fiora> *what you're implying
23:22:56 <oerjan> Fiora: well look at the difference between north and south koreans
23:23:08 <shachaf> Fiora: i think this is still about height hth
23:23:16 <oerjan> the north ones don't have a source of protein, and so are short and evil
23:23:16 <Fiora> but I'm shorter than elliott...
23:23:54 <elliott> i should like actually measure how tall i am or something
23:23:55 <Phantom__Hoover> the measuring tapes in the north are shorter to save on tape costs
23:24:11 <elliott> given that i am in this weird indeterminate space between "uh I was short fairly recently" and "I guess I grew a little?"
23:24:26 <Fiora> well he said he used to be 5'2" or something and I don't think he's gotten shorter?
23:25:16 <oerjan> `frink 5 feet 2 inches -> m
23:25:22 <Phantom__Hoover> like i said, a northern foot is less than a california foot
23:25:25 <HackEgo> Conformance error \ Left side is: 48387/625000 (exactly 0.0774192) m^2 (area) \ Right side is: 1 m (length) \ Suggestion: divide left side by length \ or divide left side by area^(1/2) \ \ For help, type: units[length] \ or \ units[area] \ to list known units with
23:25:30 <oerjan> `frink 5 feet + 2 inches -> m
23:25:38 <HackEgo> 3937/2500 (exactly 1.5748)
23:26:05 <nooodl_> i wrote a unicode sonnet http://bpaste.net/show/olydVfuzIeXaGKTkVxlJ/
23:26:09 <nooodl_> it's not AS good but it's pretty good
23:26:17 <Sgeo> Isn't Apple stereotyped as being good at UI?
23:26:43 <Sgeo> What kind of brilliant UI decision is it to, if you accidentally press off the keyboard, erase everything that's been typed so far?
23:27:22 <shachaf> Are you sure it's a brilliant UI decision at all?
23:27:30 <shachaf> It sounds like it might not be brilliant, from the way you're talking.
23:27:57 <Sgeo> Maybe Apple isn't actually good at UI
23:28:01 <nooodl_> Traditionally, English poets employ iambic pentameter when writing sonnets,
23:28:04 <Sgeo> Or, at least, they're not perfect at UI
23:28:08 <Fiora> Phantom__Hoover: but I use meters
23:28:12 <Fiora> they don't change, do they? :<
23:28:19 <nooodl_> they're usually 14 verses long too!
23:28:40 <Phantom__Hoover> do you really think they can afford a metre of solid iridium-platinum alloy?
23:28:44 <nooodl_> nobody seems to agree on what rhyming scheme is most sonnet-y
23:28:48 <Fiora> That's the kilogram :<
23:29:07 <Fiora> ... I guess if the kilogram's smaller, that means I've lost weight? <.<
23:29:12 <elliott> the kilogram changing is the scariest thing on earth, imo
23:29:19 <Fiora> oh. was that before the whole speed of light meter thing?
23:29:44 <shachaf> nooodl_: imo write a pushking-style sonnet hth
23:29:56 <elliott> is civilisation v any good
23:31:18 <Fiora> elliott: it's really really addictive, there's good and bad things about it I guess but it's lots of fun?
23:31:24 <Fiora> I am eagerly awaiting the new expansion
23:31:40 <Fiora> and by awaiting I mean like, already preordered because firaxis owns me
23:31:41 <Phantom__Hoover> i guess it depends on whether you're judging it by the standard of grand strategy games or not
23:31:55 <elliott> I ask because apparently it is free for a weekend on steam
23:31:57 <Fiora> I don't think civ is really a grand strategy game, there's EU for that :p
23:31:59 <elliott> which I noticed solely by opening steam right now
23:32:08 <nooodl_> elliott: hello whats your steam
23:32:20 <elliott> P.S. my only Civilisation experience is watching nooodl_ play the original one while sleep deprived
23:32:47 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: uh this computer can run portal
23:32:52 <elliott> it probably can't run portal 2 very well
23:33:06 <mnoqy> free for a weekend as in you get it on weekend and then its free forever like with portal or does it stop being playable after the weekend
23:33:06 <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, have you tried turning all the graphics sliders down
23:33:34 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: i haven't even tried installing it
23:33:40 <Fiora> I preorder a lot of games, um, is that bad
23:34:53 <Fiora> but like... I've... probably kind of lost at least like 200 hours to civ 5
23:34:54 <Phantom__Hoover> Fiora, well with digital distribution it's kind of weird? and i've seen it criticised a lot for being used as a vehicle for scummy business practices
23:34:56 <Fiora> maybe even more to civ 4
23:35:25 <Fiora> Phantom__Hoover: I guess? I know a lot of companies (at least ones I tend to preorder from like NISA, Atlus, Aksys, etc) use preorders to judge how many copies they should print
23:35:32 <Fiora> plus there's discounts and stuff
23:37:04 <Phantom__Hoover> seems a bit weird to project physical sales based on digital preorders, but that's just a nitpick
23:37:32 <Fiora> True, I guess I don't really do digital preorders for those... I don't know if they even offer them
23:37:51 <Fiora> I kind of tend to preorder things that I know I'll end up getting anyways
23:39:00 <kmc> weird to think about people who are still getting taller
23:41:00 <Fiora> I think I stopped getting taller about 9 years ago :/
23:41:38 <Phantom__Hoover> i'm pretty sure i stopped getting taller but i just don't know any more
23:41:50 <shachaf> have i stopped getting taller
23:42:08 <shachaf> kmc grew glasses since the last time i saw him
23:42:11 <shachaf> so i guess he's still growing
23:42:31 <kmc> growing / decaying
23:42:49 <shachaf> growing glasses, decaying eyes
23:43:10 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
23:45:24 <Sgeo> kmc, here's a situation that Rebol can't handle nicely, but I don't think Kernal and Qoppa can handle it nicely either, you tell me:
23:45:27 <Fiora> I have glasses too... does that make me a cyborg?
23:45:32 -!- augur has joined.
23:45:50 <elliott> whoa I can become a cyborg if I get glasses?
23:46:13 <elliott> does anyone know how to ruin my eyesight, staring at a computer all day for most of my life doesn't seem to have worked
23:46:14 <Sgeo> Suppose you want an environment, that looks for set!s. Within this form that you're making, any symbols that are set! to are in their own scope, any that are not use the surrounding scope.
23:46:31 <elliott> or does it count if i get those fake glasses that don't actually do anything
23:46:48 <kmc> elliott: give it time
23:47:00 <Fiora> elliott: you can just get non-prescription ones, they're super cheap too
23:47:12 <Sgeo> That is, (context (print x) (set! x 0)) prints some kind of null value, no matter what the outside x is, but (context (print x)) prints the outside x
23:47:14 <Fiora> and they'll probably look cute on you! bonus
23:47:23 <Sgeo> Can you make such a thing in Kernel or Racket?
23:47:25 <mnoqy> get "google" glasses
23:47:32 <Sgeo> Erm, not Racket
23:47:35 <Sgeo> Kernel or Qoppa
23:48:24 <Fiora> eeesh, if you have good vision don't waste it <_>
23:48:34 <Fiora> being basically blind isn't fun
23:49:10 <Bike> Sgeo: just literal (set! ...) forms? also i already hate this
23:49:12 <mnoqy> i, too, can close my eyes and go to sleep and then see even better thhings because imd reaming
23:49:28 <elliott> i've worn (other people's) strong glasses for laffs before
23:49:38 <elliott> looks pretty much like what i'd imagine bad eyesight looks like
23:49:48 <Sgeo> Bike, fwiw I'm describing something you can't do in Rebol nicely
23:49:56 <mnoqy> i've had opportunitys to wear "google" glasses but iv declined them
23:50:47 <Bike> Sgeo: what is that worth and to whom
23:51:07 <shachaf> elliott: what kind glasses
23:51:07 <elliott> ion: haha, did that make you do /last ndit?
23:51:16 <shachaf> which way do you want to ruin your eyes
23:51:16 <elliott> shachaf: the uh... the glassy kind
23:51:31 <shachaf> yes but do you want to be uh nearsighted or farsighted or what
23:51:31 <ion> elliott: ^Rndit
23:52:27 <Fiora> I don't think either is very fun...
23:53:24 <ion> I love the Finnish word huoh. It’s kinda like sigh, but with more despair. There is no happy huoh.
23:53:39 <mnoqy> nooodl_: why did i have the opportunity or why did i decline
23:54:20 <mnoqy> i know someone who has them & i didnt ask to wear them when he was passing them around for everyone to wear
23:54:58 <shachaf> i know someone who has them 2
23:55:02 <shachaf> can we be in a club 2gether
23:56:06 <nooodl_> wow you guys have cool friends ugh
23:56:20 <nooodl_> anyway i don't think i'd ever wear them seriously
23:56:29 <nooodl_> like how much of a douche would you look like. honestly
23:56:37 <ion> shachaf: Irssi sucks in some regards, Weechat sucks in other regards. I don’t really find either considerably better than the other.
23:56:37 <shachaf> nooodl_: hey mnoqy is cool maybe he can be your friend
23:56:39 <nooodl_> i really wanna try them out once though
23:56:42 <mnoqy> nooodl_: have you seen how dorky they look
23:56:46 <mnoqy> A: superemely dorky
23:57:00 <nooodl_> "glass, do this dumb thing for me"
23:57:03 <elliott> ion: what are you responding to
23:57:11 <ion> elliott: shachaf’s CTCP commands
23:58:02 <shachaf> i was all like CTCP ION HEY WHAT'S UP WHAT IRC CLIENT SHOULD I USE
23:58:16 <ion> shachaf: You should totally write an IRC client that doesn’t suck. Perhaps you could write it in @.
23:58:28 <shachaf> ion: Maybe you should use sorear's IRC client!
23:59:10 <shachaf> https://github.com/sorear/soric/blob/master/MANUAL
23:59:16 <shachaf> I guess he's not even in here.
23:59:36 <elliott> an IRC client in @ would be so easy. you could use monoids