00:10:54 <oerjan> the diæ̈resises are an integral part of #̈esoteric.
00:11:33 * oerjan just pasted that to see if the accents were showed properly in putty (at least the æ one was)
00:11:43 <oerjan> hm i think they both are
00:12:01 <oerjan> (the logs showed them separated)
00:19:21 <shachaf> your logreader is broken hth
00:22:44 <oerjan> <fizzie> (Also what are the attributes of a maximally Norwegian person?) <-- i think they have to spend a lot of time in the wilderness, preferably with skis on hth
00:24:09 <oerjan> shachaf: just for monowhyismybrainfailingme text, though
00:25:00 <shachaf> oerjan: your brain is infected by mononucleosis hth
00:26:40 <oerjan> shachaf: i also may have a slight headache
00:27:06 * oerjan fetched an apple to chase away the doctors
00:27:33 <shachaf> oerjan: apples are very dangerous when you're sick
00:29:01 <Fiora> phrase overheard at work: "they have to do the earthquake-bracing for the racks"
00:29:07 <Fiora> california is wonderful
00:31:23 <shachaf> kmc: did the wires end up catching it
00:32:31 <kmc> shachafffffff
00:32:34 <kmc> this behavior is v. confusing
00:33:07 <kmc> Fiora: I gotta figure out how to do that for the shelves in my room
00:33:21 <shachaf> i don't like making that k. of joke in every channel
00:33:34 <shachaf> maybe i'd be better off if i didn't make it in any channel............................
00:33:39 <kmc> shachaf: well I don't mind personally when it's re: a convo I'm in, but I figure others might mind (kmc the concern troll)
00:34:02 <elliott> do they actually have earthquakes you can feel in california
00:34:03 <Fiora> kmc: I don't remember like any actual earthquakes here
00:34:07 <elliott> somehow I cannot wrap my mind around this concept
00:34:15 <Fiora> elliott: I've felt two in recent memory (the past like, 3 years)
00:34:33 <kmc> I felt an earthquake in 3 years of living in Boston and never in 4 years of living in LA!
00:34:39 <Fiora> one was when the office I was in was on a higher floor (4th floor), so the building waved a bit even though the earthquake was small
00:34:40 <shachaf> kmc: do you mean people in this channel or in the other channel
00:35:04 <Fiora> the other one was literally directly under me at home, and very close to the surface, so it was like a sudden pulse (instead of shaking), and wasn't like, big or anything, just surprising
00:35:09 <shachaf> well, i figure it's no more confusing than e.g. zzo38
00:35:11 <Fiora> and weird since it felt nothing like a quake
00:35:27 <kmc> Fiora: my friend was worried because his apt building in SF is built on fill, so he looked up the engineering diagrams and it has 200 ft pilings down into bedrock
00:35:39 <kmc> so if the big one hits, the ground will liquify but he'll just be up on stilts
00:36:10 <kmc> also a BART tunnel runs thorugh the Hayward Fault and the plan for if a train is in the tunnel during an earthquake is basically "fuck"
00:36:22 <elliott> waving buildings is incredibly terrifying
00:36:32 <elliott> they should, like, nail them to the ground harder.
00:36:36 <kmc> like they have no plan... it would cost more to fix than the expected value of lives lost
00:36:39 <elliott> especially the skyscrapers.
00:36:44 <Fiora> elliott: the waving keeps them safer
00:36:48 <kmc> and while this sounds kind of terrible it's impossible to have a civilization without some logic of this form
00:36:53 <shachaf> elliott: imo nail the skyscrapers to the sky
00:36:56 <Fiora> like trees wave in wind
00:37:09 <shachaf> who ever heard of a skyquake
00:37:10 <Fiora> it's a little scary? but it doesn't wave much
00:37:18 <elliott> comfort is so much more important than safety ;_;
00:37:42 <elliott> okay how about nail the buildings down harder but also give everyone parachutes or something
00:38:06 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
00:38:12 <kmc> after 9/11 there were all kinds of daft schemes for skyscraper escape systems
00:38:17 <oerjan> <olsner> `translatetoerjan ei saa peittää <-- må ikke tildekkes hth
00:38:37 <oerjan> @tell olsner <olsner> `translatetoerjan ei saa peittää <-- må ikke tildekkes hth
00:39:05 <Fiora> "my epic monodialogue on alien bazongas" hussie.
00:40:28 <Fiora> homestuck update ¬_¬
00:43:10 <oerjan> shachaf: hjelper tørr hud
00:43:31 <oerjan> which is actually a swedish brand i think
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00:44:52 <shachaf> imo become hungarian and change your name to őrjan
00:46:03 <oerjan> my ø is actually short, so that would not be the proper accent even if transliterated
00:46:53 <shachaf> obviously it's short. if it was tall it would be written Ø
00:49:54 <oerjan> `? for further details
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00:56:36 <ion> Må ikke tildekkes. Får ej övertäckas. Do not cover. Ne pas couvrir. Ei saa peittää. Nicht zudecken. Niet afdekken. Non deve essere coperto. He hàkpbibàtb. Nezakryvat. Nie przykrywac. Neapklàt. Neuzdengti. Ne smije biti pokriveno. Kinni mitte katta.
00:59:18 <ion> I think one of them tries to be some kind of an approximation of Cyrillic letters.
01:01:42 <ion> HE HÀKPbIÀTb.
01:02:03 <shachaf> There should be a translate command that picks a random target language.
01:03:13 <Bike> in a thousand years, the only rosetta stone for translating this strange "English" into Double Polish is all the "do not cover" labels on a box
01:03:25 <kmc> Reverse Double Polish
01:03:45 <Bike> this is a family channel, kmc
01:05:06 <Gracenotes> it is a channel you can bring your family to
01:05:43 <Bike> right, like me and elliott's daughter, fiora
01:06:38 <shachaf> can i be your daughter too :'(
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01:18:30 <kmc> http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/crrnjbxt.html this "Removable Crossover" is insane
01:18:38 <kmc> esoteric trainz
01:19:49 <shachaf> ion: do you need a three-letter domain to get .fi
01:20:00 <Bike> http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/crrnjbxtehcrossover.jpg i'm scared kmc
01:20:04 <shachaf> it looks like you at least have to get ""special permission"" to get a two-letter .fi
01:21:39 <ion> kmc, bike: I like the filenames.
01:21:57 <ion> shachaf: Yeah, only two- and three-letter .fi names are allowed.
01:22:28 <ion> Just joking. What are you asking? :-P
01:22:42 <shachaf> i tried to register in.fi but it was rejected due to being a forbidden name or something
01:22:55 <shachaf> you have heh.fi so i thought maybe you know the regulations
01:23:01 <ion> I think they disallow <other tld>.fi
01:23:40 <shachaf> A quick whois suggests that s6.fi is "Domain not found" and in.fi is "Domain not available"
01:23:55 <shachaf> I read the PDF and it was kind of vague about this.
01:30:36 <kmc> shachaf: is it bad that I read that as ~"special permission"
01:30:38 <shachaf> In addition, certain words referred to in the Act (e.g. limited company, trademark) or abbreviations (e.g. oy, fi, com) cannot be registered as domain names.
01:31:08 <shachaf> kmc: as in an owned string thing?
01:32:39 <kmc> also → afk
01:32:47 <shachaf> kmc: soon the dreams will start
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01:58:38 <monotone> Well, there go my dreams of having the URL fi.fi/the/poodle any time soon.
02:04:58 <HackEgo> pbflist: shachaf Sgeo quintopia
02:05:23 <shachaf> elliott already `pbflisted.
02:05:56 <Sgeo> I didn't see it then
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02:10:35 <shachaf> we've already has slist and pbflist today...................when's olist coming
02:11:09 <ion> How does one add self to <foo>list again, and what are slist and olist?
02:11:50 <shachaf> slist is homestuck, olist is order of the stick
02:11:59 <shachaf> It depends on the implementation.
02:12:08 <shachaf> `run cat bin/slist | rot13
02:12:13 <HackEgo> rpub -a "$(onfranzr "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; gnvy -a+2 "$0" | knetf; rkvg \ Gnaro \ ngevd \ Atriq \ Svben \ abeggv \ Ftrb \ GungBgureCrefba \ nybg
02:12:25 <HackEgo> rpub -a "$(onfranzr "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; gnvy -a+2 "$0" | knetf; rkvg \ funpuns \ brewna \ Ftrb \ SverSyl
02:12:37 <monotone> Doing a "`run echo YOURNAMEHERE >> bin/slist" ought to be sufficient.
02:12:37 <shachaf> You can just echo ion >> bin/olist and so on.
02:13:03 <monotone> I was just looking at those wondering what the hell they were for, but now I've learned!
02:13:13 <ion> `run r13 <bin/pbflist
02:13:15 <HackEgo> rpub -a "$(onfranzr "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; gnvy -a+2 "$0" | knetf; rkvg \ funpuns \ Ftrb \ dhvagbcvn
02:13:29 <shachaf> r13ing pbflist doesn't help because I have /hilight funpuns :-(
02:13:39 <ion> `run echo ion >>bin/pbflist
02:13:54 <zzo38> If that is "slist" and "olist" then what is "pbflist" for?
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02:14:08 <shachaf> ion: There's also `pbflistdeluxe
02:14:11 <zzo38> Which stands for what?
02:14:17 <ion> zzo38: Perry Bible Fellowship
02:14:18 <shachaf> But that one costs $100/month to subscribe or something.
02:14:25 <ion> `pbflistdeluxe
02:14:53 <oerjan> looks like it needs better marketing
02:15:10 <shachaf> Well, pbf doesn't have very frequent updates.
02:15:33 <shachaf> Sometimes the issue is not the marketing but the product.
02:15:53 <shachaf> ion: Every available .fi has a digit in it. :-(
02:16:01 <shachaf> But there are 316 of them.
02:16:42 <ion> When getting my domain, i didn’t find any available two-letter one i would have preferred to the three-letter one i got.
02:16:42 <shachaf> I guess you went through this before acquiring heh.fi?
02:16:48 <elliott> I should re-figure out what one-letter-plus-ccTLD domains are still available one of these days
02:17:01 <zzo38> Sometimes my Dungeons&Dragons recordings is updated, although perhaps I should use a more consistent format like you have, so that you can filter on it if you want to access it.
02:17:02 <shachaf> There were some last time I checked.
02:17:14 <elliott> and then acquire one if it's still possible and they don't cost a billion pounds and they don't have draconian political problems
02:21:38 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobian_conjecture why is math hard
02:22:10 <zzo38> Because you cannot understand it perfectly.
02:22:56 <doesthiswork> this booklet describes an interesting language http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~rak/papers/newbook.pdf
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02:23:28 <shachaf> Bike: how celebrated is this problem
02:23:40 <shachaf> Bike: do people have Jacobian conjecture parties
02:23:48 <Bike> if not, we should have one.
02:25:52 <shachaf> hm sometimes it's surprising what problems are unsolved
02:26:13 <Bike> yes. that is actually the context this was presented to me in
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02:27:35 <shachaf> are any of these numbers good: 27 28 29 31 35 36 38 41 43 46 48 56 58 61 63 68 72 76 81 84 91 92 93 94 98
02:27:42 <shachaf> imagine them with .fi at the end
02:27:57 <Bike> hm. i like the look of 58.fi.
02:28:01 <Bike> but not 58.ro.
02:28:37 <shachaf> come on if you're going to be like that at least say Æsthetics
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02:29:47 <shachaf> 72 has a lot of factors but two of them are 3 (not really acceptable)
02:30:17 <shachaf> 48 is like a better 72 but it still has a 3 :'(
02:30:39 <shachaf> 27 is 3 3s "the worst number??" even though cubes are p. good
02:31:33 <shachaf> 81 is 4 3s is that better or worse than 3 3s
02:35:15 <shachaf> ion: Maybe I just can't get a .fi since I don't have a .fi (physical) address. :-(
02:35:53 <Jafet> Maybe you just need a .fi link layer address
02:36:45 <ion> shachaf: Oh. D-:
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03:25:23 <Fiora> http://ootbcomp.com/docs/belt/index.html this looks interesting but I can't stop looking at that guy's hair, wow
03:25:54 <Fiora> maybe if this follows that thing where programming language inventors have to have beards, his CPU design will be really successful
03:27:02 <Bike> a startup now emergingi from stealth mode.
03:27:22 <shachaf> haskell is doomed to fail now that Igloo quit msr :'(
03:27:52 <Bike> wow, he sounds like he looks
03:28:08 <Bike> "This is the most exciting new development in computing and hair fashion in ten years."
03:29:17 <Jafet> We've had about enough of all of this success.
03:30:04 <Bike> you can get a thousand DSPs for $17, huh
03:30:08 <shachaf> have you even seen Igloo's beard
03:32:44 <Bike> "Price: wild guess" lol
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03:35:24 <Bike> Fiora: up to explaining 33 ops/cycle. chip design is the most stunningly "no, you can't describe this with one number" field
03:36:32 <Bike> "really nasty things, like function calls"
03:37:26 * Fiora is bad and hasn't actually watched it <.<
03:38:01 <Bike> well, basically he put up "33 ops/cycle" but then explained that they're MIMD operations, they have to be independent, and it depends on the distribution of hardware on the chip (like, not 33 adds)
03:39:43 <Fiora> so it's just like typical x86 type of thing, except the architecture is designed to make more than just a couple per cycle feasible?
03:39:55 <Fiora> except like, without VLIWness?
03:39:58 <Bike> "typical x86 type of thing"?
03:40:17 <Fiora> ummmm multiple execution units and the ability to execute multiple instructions as long as they're of different types?
03:40:21 <Fiora> sorry, I wasn't clear
03:40:28 <Bike> oh, that seemed to be the intention, yes
03:40:55 <Bike> you s hould probably just listen to the talk instead of to me misinterpreting everything
03:41:19 <Bike> haswell has "nearly 500 possible sources" of operands, gosh
03:43:39 <Bike> he says routing sources to sinks is half of haswell's power use ._.
03:44:55 <Fiora> it's not surprising :/ I mean like OOE is basically a bunch of queues
03:46:11 <Bike> he says 500 sources is mostly for rename registers, so get rid of those i guess
03:46:27 <Fiora> yeah, that's the physical register file
03:47:24 <shachaf> i always thought OOE was implemented with magic dust
03:53:31 <Bike> this seems pretty hard to write assembly for (what a change)
04:00:00 <Sgeo> Can someone remind me why I rejected Smalltalk the last time I looked at Smalltalk?
04:00:12 <Sgeo> Because I'm getting into Smalltalk again
04:02:22 <Bike> "there's a canonical pain in the neck in instruction set. Called divide."
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04:22:58 <zzo38> Why don't you make a simpler one?
04:23:06 <Bike> a simpler what
04:23:16 <zzo38> A simpler CPU design
04:23:27 <Bike> did you see the link.
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06:25:46 <kmc> http://jerkcity.com/_jerkcity1681.html
06:27:38 <Bike> pictures carnot engine
06:52:03 <kmc> Harry Potter and the Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living
07:02:14 <kmc> shachaf: how hard do you think it would be to extract useful information from a 44.1 kHz 16 bit 2 channel raw PCM recording of speech, encrypted with AES-ECB with an unknown key?
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07:15:35 <shachaf> Hmm. That's like mapping every 16(/24/32) byte block to some unique identifier.
07:16:41 <shachaf> I don't know enough (i.e. anything) about audio to know. :-(
07:16:48 <shachaf> How much information is there in 16 bytes?
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07:22:54 <kmc> i did this with some music i had on my computer and about 0.4% of the resulting file consisted of blocks that occurred at least twice
07:23:00 <kmc> except that was only one channel
07:25:03 <kmc> you can recover speech from an encrypted VoIP channel using knowledge of the variable-bitrate codec in use http://www.cs.unc.edu/~fabian/papers/tissec2010.pdf
07:25:53 <zzo38> Can you vary the bitrate using the key?
07:26:55 <shachaf> Huh. Recover actual speech?
07:27:03 <kmc> i dunno read the paper
07:27:14 <kmc> zzo38: how do you mean
07:27:14 <shachaf> what am i paying you for hth
07:27:23 <kmc> your taxes pay my salary?
07:27:33 <shachaf> kmc: invent a voip client that sends only the bitrate
07:28:14 <zzo38> Can you protect against that by varying the bitrate by the key and/or using a different coded?
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07:43:37 <shachaf> kmc: Hmm, I tried recording a small PCM file and I'm not seeing any duplicates.
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07:45:29 <shachaf> (conclusion: ecb mode is safe)
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08:18:33 <fizzie> Aw, the paper "only" locates predefined phrases. (Still nice.)
08:19:07 <HackEgo> 663) <shachaf> fizzie: What kind of speech recognition do you do? <shachaf> If you only need to recognize famous speeches, like Churchill or something, it should be pretty easy.
08:19:32 <fizzie> Yes, it's that kind of.
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10:07:24 <itsy> I'm off to the Centre for Computing History in Cambridge tomorrow http://ComputingHistory.org.uk :-)
10:12:00 <itsy> Erm... I think this covers it http://about.me/john_metcalf
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11:19:59 <Jafet> <tree xmlns="http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul" ...>
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12:32:07 <quintopia> i got pbflisted. was it serious this time or another false alarm?
12:34:03 <fizzie> Traditional hellos from the Assembly event thing.
12:37:18 <fizzie> "Oh, cool. It's serious." -- things you rarely hear at the doctor's.
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12:43:59 <Jafet> "The Mozilla build process requires many tools that are not installed on most Windows systems. In addition to Visual Studio, you must install MozillaBuild, which is a bundle of software including just the right versions of bash, GNU make, autoconf, Mercurial, and much more."
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13:18:00 <boily> good quote-depleted morning!
13:19:41 <boily> @tell oerjan I kinda lost count of the recursion layers. are we still on a natural number, of have we reached reality?
13:20:54 <boily> the haskell weekly news only has a single quote.
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13:28:18 * boily pokes fizzie with a vietnamese wooden spatula
13:32:01 <fizzie> I bought a graphics card (special Assembly discount deal), and it came with... let's see... "Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Blacklist Digital Deluxe Edition" and "Metro: Last Light".
13:32:21 <fizzie> I have no idea what these are (except that they're games), but they're "not for resale".
13:34:18 <boily> ~duck splinter cell
13:34:18 <metasepia> Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell is a series of award-winning action-adventure stealth video games the first of which was released in 2002, and their tie-in novels.
13:34:25 <boily> ~duck metro last night
13:34:25 <metasepia> The Legend of Zelda HD Experience is an upcoming action game video game for the Wii U, Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 which is being developed by 4A Games.
13:34:46 <fizzie> I am not entirely sure that last one is helpful.
13:35:19 <fizzie> Unless "Metro: Last Night" is the same thing as The Legend of Zelda HD Experience.
13:36:05 <boily> well, the 4A Games part is correct.
13:36:20 <Fiora> splinter cell is like this long running series of spy game things? I think I played a tiny bit of one a long time ago, you could check the reviews on this one?
13:36:34 <fizzie> I don't really like shooting. Do these games feature any shooting?
13:37:00 <Fiora> they're both shooters
13:37:12 <boily> there is shooting, and all the gibs and splatter and gore and flying random fleshy bits.
13:38:08 <fizzie> Bleh. I'm not good at things where you have to do a thing.
13:38:27 <fizzie> But it's "not for resale", so they'll presumably shoot me if I try to sell them to someone.
13:38:32 <Fiora> (of like, the man-shoot variety, not the glowy-bullet-dodging variety)
13:38:51 <fizzie> Fiora: You mean, they're not shmups.
13:40:13 <fizzie> Also: the #esoteric presence bitmap visualization thing I made is not draggable on Android-touchscreen-Chrome.
13:40:19 <Fiora> sorry, I kinda just wanted an excuse to say glowy-bullet-dodging.
13:40:45 <fizzie> It's done with mousedown/mousemove/mouseup eventry, I guess that doesn't really happen here.
13:41:45 <fizzie> boily: A bitmap. You know, it's a map in time.
13:41:55 <fizzie> And "presence" means "being on-channel".
13:42:15 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/ircvis/esoteric/people_presence.html
13:42:39 <fizzie> You can check yourself out on there.
13:42:58 <fizzie> I only see up to 2009 and can't drag. :/
13:43:32 <Fiora> oooh, that's kind of cool.
13:43:59 <fizzie> Fiora: We can see when you sleep.
13:44:11 <fizzie> Also there seem to be some gaps.
13:45:29 <boily> elliott's traces are scary.
13:45:40 <fizzie> boily: As is only appropriate.
13:50:10 <Fiora> fizzie: when I sleep is not quite a secret :p though I also nap a lot too
13:50:47 <fizzie> Fiora: The naps would need to be quite regular in order to be visible.
13:51:52 <Fiora> oh, you can add multiple layers. is this a who-is-whose-alt tool? :P
13:52:47 <fizzie> I think it was already used to prove kmc is Taneb, or something like that.
13:53:50 <fizzie> In re layers, the blending is kinda wrong, so it's best to put a dark-ish color like red on the bottom, and a bright one (like turquoise) on top.
13:55:16 <boily> kmc: are you Taneb?
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14:37:46 <metasepia> Behind all the political rhetoric being hurled at us from abroad, we are
14:37:47 <metasepia> bringing home one unassailable fact -- [terrorism is] a crime by any civilized
14:37:47 <metasepia> standard, committed against innocent people, away from the scene of political
14:37:47 <metasepia> conflict, and must be dealt with as a crime. . . .
14:37:47 <metasepia> [I]n our recognition of the nature of terrorism as a crime lies our best hope
14:37:47 <metasepia> [L]et us use the tools that we have. Let us invoke the cooperation we have
14:37:48 <metasepia> the right to expect around the world, and with that cooperation let us shrink
14:37:48 <metasepia> the dark and dank areas of sanctuary until these cowardly marauders are held
14:37:49 <metasepia> to answer as criminals in an open and public trial for the crimes they have
14:37:49 <metasepia> committed, and receive the punishment they so richly deserve.
14:37:50 <metasepia> - William H. Webster, Director, Federal Bureau of Investigation, 15 Oct 1985
14:39:44 <metasepia> Fortune finishes the great quotations, #2
14:39:44 <metasepia> If at first you don't succeed, think how many people
14:39:56 <boily> hm. not a good fortunate day.
14:39:58 <metasepia> Your divination: "Clustering" to "Confining"
14:41:14 <boily> so, we gather together and get oppressed.
14:41:39 * boily stays away from any divinatory tool today as a safety measure
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14:56:36 <augur> so im reading dennett's intuition pumps
14:56:54 <augur> and ch 24 is basically an intro to register machines
14:57:25 <augur> which is fun, because now im thinking about how to write an advanced imperative language on top of it
14:59:57 <fizzie> Deewiant: What's this CTCP-version thing?
15:02:24 <Roujo> fizzie: It's a request for your client to identify itself
15:02:48 <fizzie> Roujo: Yes, yes, I know what it is; I was more curious about the whys.
15:02:55 <Roujo> fizzie: Oh. Sorry =P
15:03:10 <Jafet> Identify yourself, fizzie.
15:03:56 <Fiora> maybe Deewiant is trying to figure out which type of fizzie you are
15:03:59 <Fiora> like, a coke? pepsi?
15:04:24 <fizzie> Jafet: *beep* this is fizzie v0.9pre1+55e82e1eb131597ce6ef77ff775b2c2e5f4d6b45 -- all systems nominal *beep*
15:05:42 <Roujo> It's funny how systems are always either nominal or off-the-charts
15:07:08 <Jafet> Why use nominal systems when you can use significant ones.
15:08:02 <Fiora> *beep* this is Fiora v1.24 -- all systems kind of nominal, but needs food *beep*
15:11:19 <fizzie> Ooh, we've a post-1 version here.
15:14:51 <Fiora> yes, that's because I'm old'
15:16:09 <fizzie> I'm "old" too, and still a prerelease.
15:16:26 <fizzie> That said, someone should version oerjan too.
15:17:25 <Jafet> You should become a Mozilla project, they have nice version numbering.
15:17:48 <Fiora> I don't want my source code to be public though :/
15:17:54 <Fiora> that's kind of a little bit too invasive, you know?
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15:19:59 <Jafet> Hardly anyone bothers to read it anyway. I would be more worried about the imminent increase in size.
15:20:28 <Fiora> then they'd know about all my subroutines and all my weaknesses
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15:20:49 <Fiora> and they probably still couldn't really do anything useful! like fix that old feature request from years back to add cat ears
15:22:56 <Jafet> I'm sure you can get cat ears as an external "add-on".
15:23:22 <Fiora> and there's still that bug where it falls asleep constantly throughout the day
15:23:42 <Jafet> You would not be the first Mozilla product to have this problem
15:24:00 <Fiora> and the emotion engine really could use some tuning
15:24:26 <boily> I could use some tuna.
15:24:45 <boily> delicious, 美味しい tunafish...
15:26:58 <Fiora> I'm now imagining like pull requests for people
15:27:32 <boily> not sure it's a good idea. it'll end with “pull my finger” jokes.
15:28:05 <Jafet> https://github.com/msporny/dna/pull/1
15:40:05 <Roujo> "Error: blob is too big"
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17:04:53 <nortti> do you have any experience with linux on powerpc macs?
17:05:40 <nortti> did you have working audio?
17:05:48 <kmc> don't recall
17:13:21 <fizzie> And had working audio at least on the iBook.
17:13:32 <fizzie> Can't be quite certain about the Performa whatever.
17:13:43 <fizzie> (The one where MkLinux was the only choice.)
17:14:44 <itsy> Did anyone here have a ZX Spectrum? I'm just writing a bit of Z80 at the moment!
17:14:58 <fizzie> I have a speccy friend, does that count?
17:15:03 <Roujo> I installed debian on an old PPC Mac
17:15:07 <fizzie> Also I've written some amount of Z80 code for the TI-86.
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18:16:30 <metasepia> CYUL 011811Z 22022G34KT 4SM -SHRA BKN012 OVC025 19/17 A2979 RMK SC6SC2 RERA TCU ASOCT PRESRR SLP088 DENSITY ALT 700FT
18:17:29 <Roujo> The weather here is freaking insance
18:18:14 <kmc> I installed Linux on a bunch of 68k Macs
18:18:28 <Roujo> Although it seemed to have calmed down now
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18:26:14 <boily> Roujo: where are you from?
18:27:10 <Roujo> Le monde est petit, et tout et tout =P
18:27:18 <boily> c'est ça qui est ça :p
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18:29:14 <elliott> are you asking him for his coordinates and body weigh
18:30:33 <boily> Roujo: je me dois de te poser la La Question: quelles sont tes coördonnées approximatives, et ta masse corporelle?
18:30:42 <boily> (pour les coordonnées, ça va déjà :) )
18:31:32 <Roujo> NullPointerException at Person.getBodyWeight();
18:31:57 <Roujo> Alternatively, 403 ^^
18:32:24 <boily> it's a number, which is better than what some people gave me.
18:32:36 <elliott> boily: I hope you omitted the last letter of the French word for weight
18:32:50 <boily> elliott: oh hm. didn't think about that.
18:32:57 <Roujo> elliott: Why the hell would he do that? =P
18:33:06 <boily> Roujo: it's... uhm... well...
18:33:39 <boily> oh. weight. no, wait. wait. not corporell, mass.
18:34:43 <elliott> alternatively you could translate the verb verb "weigh"
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18:37:38 <Roujo> It's in the survey as well
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18:38:22 <fizzie> This channel is plain steeped in tradition.
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18:44:53 <boily> ~eval (185 - 32) * 5 / 9
18:45:58 <boily> ~eval (212 - 32) * 5 / 9
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18:50:23 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ), blsqbot !
18:50:51 <EgoBot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ) , blsqbot !
18:51:12 <Roujo> Are all of the bots from different people?
18:51:19 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ) , blsqbot !
18:51:25 <zzo38> HackEgo and EgoBot are both from Gregor
18:51:45 <Roujo> Because I could bring mine here too =)
18:52:00 <Roujo> To help them get closer to a majority
18:52:14 <boily> mine is metasepia, fungot is fizzie's, jconn is jafet's (I think).
18:52:15 <fungot> boily: i actually was wondering. :p http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ help:... :i have an alghoritm witch describe low levels bits operation that should be
18:52:42 <Roujo> I tried to parse this for wayyy too long
18:53:09 <Roujo> I'll bring my bot here, then
18:53:13 <Roujo> I just have to fix her first >_>
18:53:18 <Roujo> She forgot about prefixes
18:53:39 <Roujo> So she reacts to anything that looks like a command, whether or not she's supposed to
18:54:24 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
18:54:41 <Roujo> https://github.com/Roujo/Emily-Core
18:55:04 <elliott> boily: jconn is nobody from here's.
18:55:10 <elliott> well, sgeo's if anything :p
18:55:29 <Roujo> Something tells me there's quite an overlap between Agora and here =P
18:55:38 <Roujo> You don't like Java, do you =P
18:56:15 <fizzie> fungot: Do you agree that there should be some sort of "esolang bots only" rule?
18:56:16 <fungot> fizzie: i really wish someone had layed down the law and taken away he damn thing when i know that
18:56:55 <Roujo> Sure, let me bring my Brainfuck bot instead
18:57:09 <Roujo> Also, Emily is built on an Esolang
18:57:14 <Roujo> That's a Superset of Java
18:57:21 <Roujo> And build using the same compiler
18:57:26 <Roujo> And runs on the JVM
18:58:29 <Roujo> What the hell is fungot coded in
18:58:29 <fungot> Roujo: i never have! he wont let me do my tribute to fishnet stockings...
18:58:56 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
18:58:58 <Roujo> I saw that easlier today
18:59:08 <Roujo> I have the code in front of me
18:59:14 <Roujo> But I can't figure out what language it is
18:59:53 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
19:00:09 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
19:00:16 <fungot> echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping
19:02:25 <boily> haskell counts as an esolang? right?
19:03:42 <olsner> unless it's a very elaborate joke, I'm pretty sure the haskell people are serious about it
19:05:31 <olsner> boily: also, have you looked at ursala?
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19:06:36 <boily> olsner: last time I tried, my brain suddenly froze for no apparent reason, and when I regained consiousness I had tribal paintings on my body.
19:08:04 <fizzie> There is a: orchestra playing video game music concert: here.
19:08:12 <fizzie> I understand those things are quite popular.
19:08:56 <fizzie> They've also promised an "only at Assembly" mega-surprise at the end, so now I'm going to have to sit here through this all just to see something that's probably something really lame.
19:09:15 <boily> fizzie: you're at assembly?
19:09:31 <fizzie> boily: Every time since 1996.
19:09:48 <fizzie> (Okay, with one exception.)
19:09:54 <olsner> `learn ursala ~&al?\~&ar ~&aa^&~&afahPRPfafatPJPRY+ ~&farlthlriNCSPDPDrlCS2DlrTS2J,^|J/~& ~&rt!=+ ^= ~&s+ ~&H(-+.|=&lrr;,|=&lrl;,|=≪+-, ~&rgg&& ~&irtPFXlrjrXPS; ~&lrK2tkZ2g&& ~&llrSL2rDrlPrrPljXSPTSL)+-,
19:10:19 <olsner> (extract of https://github.com/gueststar/Ursala/blob/master/contrib/sudoku.fun)
19:10:25 <elliott> that isn't an ideal example of ursala code because it lacks the random comprehensible substrings jammed in the midle
19:10:37 <elliott> where it briefly pretends to be a normal language
19:10:42 * boily feels extremely weird for a moment
19:12:21 <boily> Roujo: oh, two other traditions besides bot abuse and coördinating: `? and `quote
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19:22:52 <HackEgo> 659) <Phantom_Hoover> (I vehemently oppose the SNP because they want closer ties with Sweden.)
19:23:06 <HackEgo> 925) <olsner> boily: the man eating chicken is just a normal man, it's quite common to eat chicken in some parts of the world \ 926) <elliott> ~eval 1+2 <cuttlefish> Error (127): <elliott> this is a great bot boily i love it \ 935) <boily> not only there is no God, but try to find an APL keyboard on Sunday. \ 938) <boily> ais523: I'm not sure my
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19:23:30 <HackEgo> Roujo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
19:23:50 <Taneb> ~eval (1, 2) ^. _1
19:24:06 <Bike> maybe you should "mix it up", elliott
19:24:23 <Taneb> ~eval "hello" ^. folded . enum . to Sum
19:24:24 <metasepia> Error (1): Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Int' with `GHC.Types.Char'
19:24:24 <metasepia> -> Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor (Data.Monoid.Sum a0) a0)
19:24:24 <metasepia> -> Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor
19:24:24 <metasepia> (Data.Monoid.Sum a0) GHC.Types.Char
19:24:25 <metasepia> -> Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor (Data.Monoid.Sum a0) a0)
19:24:26 <metasepia> -> Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor
19:24:27 <metasepia> (Data.Monoid.Sum a0) GHC.Types.Int
19:24:31 <Taneb> ~eval "hello" ^. folded . re enum . to Sum
19:28:19 <Bike> the welcome! Roujo has "been" around the "block" you gotta get some other greet's going
19:30:01 <Taneb> Invisible character, right?
19:30:11 <boily> yep. very annoying.
19:30:29 <Bike> `WELCOME Roujo
19:30:31 <HackEgo> ROUJO: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.)
19:30:37 <Bike> you're lucky i'm here for HR, elliott.
19:31:22 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wElCoMe: not found
19:31:52 <elliott> it should pick different words each time though
19:32:25 <Phantom__Hoover> would be hard to make sure it picked actual matches though-- what am i saying, that just makes it even better
19:33:03 <boily> let's try and ping idlers on this channel, and see how the respond to the thesaurelcome.
19:33:18 <boily> s/how the/how they/
19:33:28 <Bike> greetings from the transnational core of odd computation system architecture and diaspora! to learn more, try our website: http://oddcomputation.net/. (For another sort of oddness, check out http://www.ioof.org/
19:34:44 <elliott> want to add "the transnational core of odd computation system architecture and diaspora" to the topic but it would get too long :(
19:35:07 <Taneb> Satisfying facing dramaturgic foreign nerve centre because arcane prioritise jargon map also formation
19:35:13 <elliott> "for another sort of oddness" is also fantastic
19:35:20 <olsner> maybe you could use shadyurl to shorten that google docs link
19:35:59 <elliott> "odd computation" is a surprisingly good description of esolangs
19:37:06 <Taneb> Whereas higher clue inquiry away us wiki
19:38:33 <Taneb> Inasamuch as comic more friendly like mysticism shot #esoteric onward irc.dal.net
19:38:35 * boily applies electrodes to Taneb's brain and do a high-voltage reset of his language center
19:39:07 <boily> ah, c'est pas mal mieux!
19:39:44 <boily> ça va, ça va. il fait un peu trop humide à mon goût dehors, mais à part de ça ça va plutôt bien. comment est-ce que ça se porte à hexham?
19:40:37 <Taneb> Le temps est chaud
19:41:17 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover, aidez-moi! Je ne veux pas parler français, pas plus!
19:42:05 <boily> la résitance est futile. prépare-toi à devenir canadien!
19:42:52 <Taneb> Canadien? Je pensais que je devenais belge!+
19:42:53 <boily> olsner: nothing to see here. everything is fine. Taneb is okay, he's certainly not calling for help.
19:43:04 <boily> Taneb: ah non, pour ça il faut parler à Koen.
19:43:49 * Taneb jette vers le haut
19:43:53 <olsner> see kids, this is what happens when you pretend canada is real
19:44:58 <zzo38> I don't need to pretend Canada is real, because I am at Canada, and here Canada is real.
19:45:30 <Bike> well that's not saying much, narnia is real in narnia too
19:45:48 * Taneb prend les électrodes et les insère retour dans son cerveau
19:45:52 <Taneb> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
19:45:58 <zzo38> Well, I suppose, but I live at Canada.
19:45:59 <Taneb> Oh god that is so much better
19:46:21 <boily> we have coppro, cpressey, Roujo, zzo38, and myself.
19:46:39 <boily> darn. Taneb escaped. come back here, you felon!
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20:08:57 <zzo38> Is there any strmove command in any C?
20:09:24 <Bike> what's that, strcpy + free?
20:09:33 <shachaf> Like memmove except for strcpy?
20:09:56 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes that is what I mean.
20:10:39 <Bike> so... the source and dest can overlap?
20:12:02 <zzo38> You could still use memmove for that but if there was strmove that would work too.
20:12:33 <Bike> so what's strmove for then.
20:13:11 <zzo38> Just like you could use memcpy instead of strcpy if you use strlen, but you could make it not require strlen if you use strcpy or strmove
20:14:20 <Taneb> Apparently my bank card expired in March
20:15:23 <shachaf> zzo38: I don't think you get the same benefit, though.
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20:15:37 <zzo38> shachaf: What benefit?
20:16:42 <shachaf> Well, with strcpy, you only have to iterate over the string once, whereas with strlen+memcpy you'd have to do it twice.
20:17:42 <boily> it's only a string, and it shouldn't be very long. besides, iterating over it twice still means the overall procedure is O(n).
20:18:18 <olsner> if I remember someone's benchmark correctly, strlen+memcpy is often faster than strcpy, so that might not be much of a benefit
20:18:46 <shachaf> If strlen+memcpy is faster than strcpy, then strcpy should be implemented as strlen+memcpy, clearly.
20:19:30 <olsner> I guess people thought anything with a single pass would so *obviously* be faster they didn't bother to check
20:20:05 <zzo38> Yes I do mean that if you had a strmove then you wouldn't have to iterate it twice like that.
20:20:06 <kmc> is that because memcpy can copy in bigger blocks?
20:20:16 <zzo38> And it might be long; don't assume it isn't?
20:20:22 <boily> someone should create an algorithm in O(1/n).
20:20:46 <zzo38> (If strlen+memcpy is faster than strcpy then yes it should be implemented like that instead)
20:21:04 <olsner> kmc: perhaps that and generally more attention being spent to optimization of memcpy
20:21:24 <boily> zzo38: a long string becomes a rope.
20:22:54 <zzo38> No, a string could be any data consisting of a series of nonzero bytes ending in a zero byte.
20:23:31 <boily> the lenghts of strings are too damn high!
20:24:38 * quintopia joins the string-lengths-too-damn-high party
20:25:12 <Taneb> But how long is a piece of string
20:27:12 <Taneb> Also how do I get a new debit card issues
20:27:34 <shachaf> Taneb: step 1: move to california hth
20:27:54 <Taneb> shachaf, but for that I need money and for that I need a new debit card!
20:29:11 <boily> first, become Canadian.
20:33:05 <boily> we can do that in installments. you just start very slow, with basic stuff like poutine, then progress from that.
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20:38:02 <Taneb> On another note, taking people at face value makes everything seem so much nicer
20:39:08 <Taneb> Someone said, referring to a thingy that I tried to organize the other day that no-one could make it to, "I don't want it to be just me and Nathan..." (she could make it, but nobody else could)
20:39:56 <Taneb> Apparently, that was packed full of subtext and loads of people got angry at her for saying it
20:40:07 <Taneb> But to me it seemed perfectly logical
20:41:05 <shachaf> just me and Nathan and Taneb and Ngevd and atriq
20:41:55 <Taneb> Not actually loads
20:42:32 <Taneb> I don't want to concern myself with it!
20:42:35 <Taneb> I don't like being angry!
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21:23:27 <kmc> error: unresolved name `RcMut`. Did you mean `id`?
21:23:32 <kmc> the keys are right next to each other
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21:59:35 <kmc> error: mismatched types: expected `[type error]` but found struct
21:59:37 <kmc> shit rustc says
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22:18:57 <shachaf> kmc: imo start the twitter account
22:20:16 <comex> kmc: bug report it
22:21:47 <shachaf> in open source mozilla, bug reports you
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22:38:48 <fizzie> Re the surprise they promised: it was that the orchestra/choir performed an arrangement of the soundtrack of Second Reality.
22:39:57 <fizzie> No; it's an iconic PC demo from 1993 or so.
22:40:15 <fizzie> From Future Crew; it's quite the famous.
22:40:34 <fizzie> With music by Skaven and Purple Motion.
22:40:46 <shachaf> kmc: btw is this ""unsene"" thing a parody y/n
22:41:04 <FreeFull> http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=63
22:41:48 <FreeFull> http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=1216 This is the C64 remake
22:41:49 <fizzie> The cityscape soundtrack (as performed by orchestra) resembled quite much the one in Final Reality, the early-ish graphics benchmark software those guys did.
22:42:42 <fizzie> The C64 port is impressively faithful to the original.
22:43:32 <fizzie> http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=7259 This is the benchmark.
22:43:43 <fizzie> (DirectX 5! So modern.)
22:45:04 <kmc> shachaf: what is it
22:45:29 <shachaf> kmc: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/unsene-secure-and-private-chat-calls-and-photo-and-file-sharing
22:45:36 <shachaf> hm do they get pageranks or something if i link to it
22:45:46 <shachaf> i thought you had talked about it previously but maybe it was someone else
22:46:43 <shachaf> also e.g. http://unsene.com/blog/2013/06/15/is-most-encryption-broken/ etc.
22:46:51 <Fiora> "nd now, with the recent revelations about the NSA" but but it goes through their servers and they keep logs
22:47:22 <shachaf> Includes xAES (which was in the running for the AES standard and has much higher bit rates) and we are developing a flexible One Time Pad system, which is nearly immune to cryptanalysis.
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22:47:54 <Bike> "Secure your freedom™" that's fantastic
22:48:05 <Fiora> "We don't participate in the NSA's PRISM program.
22:48:15 <Fiora> if... if they did they'd still have to say that
22:48:44 <kmc> charging extra for a developer account is super classy
22:48:44 <Fiora> geez this makes no sense -_-
22:48:51 <shachaf> i participate in the NSA's PRISM program!
22:49:17 <kmc> also I like that the first thing in the writeup is a TechCrunch quote but it's not, like, giving a favorable opinion of them, just saying what they claim to do
22:49:21 <shachaf> (i didn't even have to sign up or agree to any terms and conditions, it was p. great)
22:49:26 <Bike> "They are using computer technology that’s at least 30 years advanced over the computer you have, including quantum computers. These computers are at least 10 billion times faster than what you use. " mmhm.
22:49:42 <Fiora> and... and they can walk into the server room and just pick up your messages
22:49:43 <Bike> "Public domain encryption wouldn’t be allowed into the pubic unless it was cracked, because they wouldn’t be able to spy on you."
22:49:57 <kmc> allowed into the pubic
22:49:59 <shachaf> Bike: quantum computers, man
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22:51:01 <shachaf> Encryption looks like this:
22:51:04 <shachaf> wnsd8hgurXE#N69xerpgtnjusdmcir436,cf0dmg09#ns,d
22:51:06 <shachaf> That’s what the phrase “Encryption looks like this” looks like when it’s encrypted.
22:51:09 <Bike> they're, like, ten billion times faster.
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22:52:06 <shachaf> There are a couple of ways to deal with these threats. First, you can identify and remove them and this is how anti-virus software works. You can also install a firewall either in the network cable (which requires hardware) or on the computer itself to monitor and block the packets leaving your computer.
22:52:39 <kmc> i think these people are bad
22:53:36 <Fiora> it's like technobabble
22:55:33 <FreeFull> Or you could write your own operating system
22:55:38 <FreeFull> Rendering all malware incompatible
22:56:09 <shachaf> "Mission: Impossible-style self-destructing messages"
22:58:19 <shachaf> "Includes xAES (which was in the running for the AES standard and has much higher bit rates)" "XAES – a more secure and advanced version of AES, ours goes up to 4096 bits, which is über-strong. Unlikely to be broken as this has been customized from standard code libraries that aren’t widely known."
23:00:10 <Bike> oh, right, their entire marketing model is based on the idea that with more resources you can break anything and are a wizard
23:00:37 <Fiora> wasn't there a thing where there was an attack that was actually better against AES-256 than 128 because of insufficient mixing or something?
23:00:46 <Fiora> and like, generalizing to a bigger key size without enough mixing and rounds could be super dangerous
23:02:18 <elliott> this unsene thing hurts me
23:02:24 <shachaf> yes, but on the other hand, not being über-strong is also kind of dangerous
23:02:59 <comex> wanna bet that the implementation has a bunch of obvious weaknesses?
23:03:18 <Bike> luckily those weaknesses are hidden from the NSA>
23:03:42 <FreeFull> AES-10715086071862673209484250490600018105614048117055336074437503883703510511249361224931983788156958581275946729175531468251871452856923140435984577574698574803934567774824230985421074605062371141877954182153046474983581941267398767559165543946077062914571196477686542167660429831652624386837205668069376
23:03:59 <kmc> Fiora yeah there are related key attacks against AES-192 and AES-256
23:04:00 <elliott> comex: probably not, it's been customised from standard code libraries that aren't widely known.
23:04:21 <elliott> comex: how could they possibly break it if they don't know what it is??
23:05:16 <shachaf> elliott makes a good point
23:05:26 <shachaf> elliott: you should take the bet
23:05:30 <elliott> Is file-sharing like an email attachment? (obviously i have never used any file-sharing program)
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