00:03:14 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
00:07:28 -!- kallisti has joined.
00:11:40 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
00:18:40 -!- kallisti has joined.
00:18:40 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host).
00:18:40 -!- kallisti has joined.
00:22:31 <boily> hum. it's awfully quiet in here. guess everybody else went to sleep, or something similarly cadaverous...
00:23:13 <boily> that, or as bash.org pointed out, I'm on the receiving end of giant snails doing weird things whil I'm unconscious and dreaming I'm on IRC.
00:24:16 -!- itsy has left.
00:26:14 <boily> is that ascii art for a snail?
00:26:45 <kmc> the name for that symbol in many languages means "snail"
00:27:49 <boily> in turkish it's "horse" because of a bad pun.
00:27:57 <kmc> what's the pun
00:28:06 <boily> "at". it's turkish for "horse".
00:28:31 <ion> In Finnish some people call it “cat’s tail” but most just say “at”.
00:29:49 <boily> speaking of puns, are there any good puns out there? seems like every one of them is considered bad.
00:29:59 <kmc> there was a cat on my porch yesterday
00:30:07 <kmc> it didn't try to eat the helper worms
00:30:12 <kmc> or the basil
00:30:21 <ion> Some also call it miukumauku, an onomatopoetic word that translates to something like “a mew, a meow”
00:31:47 <shachaf> kmc: in hebrew it is colloquially called a "strudel" hth
00:32:30 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:35:29 <boily> I fscking hungry. I was supposed to eat three hours ago.
00:37:50 <kmc> what were you supposed to eat
00:38:06 <boily> my regular weekly poutine.
00:38:19 <boily> and it's my first week that I can finally get beer!
00:38:28 <boily> (first week since June)
00:38:54 <kmc> why's that
00:39:05 <boily> I was on medication for the past few months.
00:39:38 <boily> and I'm stuck here slaving myself away for a stupid demo tomorrow.
00:39:48 <boily> oh well. I'll get plenty of time off on Friday.
00:48:53 <Phantom_Hoover> i seriously wish someone would ban the political compass
00:49:11 <Bike> it's hilarious though
00:50:14 <boily> I scored (-6.5, -6.5) on it :D
00:50:21 <boily> but where should it be banned from?
00:50:21 <Bike> congratulations libertarians, you have developed an understanding of politics more sophisticated than CNN
00:50:55 <Phantom_Hoover> because the questions are slanted towards leftist economic policies
00:51:16 <ion> All compasses should be banned.
00:53:28 <Phantom_Hoover> "Governments should penalise businesses that mislead the public." like seriously
00:53:51 <Bike> is that leftist or just dumb? i would say dumb
00:54:35 <Bike> the whole "socially liberal but economically conservative" being a thing that makes sense is libertarian though, thinking you can separate the axes i mean
00:55:27 <Fiora> isn't there that confusing thing where "economically liberal" actually means right wing
00:55:38 <Phantom_Hoover> but there's a clear ideological axis to that question, and i don't think even ayn rand would say 'disagree' to that one
00:56:08 <Fiora> I thought the libertarian axis to that question was "of course not, the magical hand of magic free market adam smith will fix everything!"
00:56:10 <Bike> Fiora: that's "classical liberal"
00:56:20 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: you think? i'm not so sure
00:56:35 <Fiora> I always remember reading libertarian types being opposed to exactly that type of regulatin
00:56:49 <Fiora> e.g. supporting the idea that "fox news is allowed to lie, that's not the government's business", etc
00:57:15 <boily> seems like I'm not the only one that egregiously accentise in uncouth places...
00:57:30 <Bike> reminds me of chomsky's hilarious libel thing
00:57:32 <kmc> yeah well in theory the market will demand a superior news product and the liars lose market share
00:57:36 <kmc> in practice that barely happens ever
00:57:49 <boily> in a comment in python code: # ... that display existing pîcking orders...
00:57:52 <Bike> an inadequate theory.
00:57:53 <kmc> people are lazy and barely even watch the news, yet alone informed meta-criticism
00:58:01 <kmc> let alone*
00:58:15 <kmc> sometimes FOX will say something egregiously horrible and lose advertisers for a time
00:58:21 <kmc> in fact I think Glenn Beck left because of that kind of thing
00:58:35 <Bike> glenn beck had his own ad problems didn't he
00:58:39 <kmc> but that's different from the low level steady stream of lies that aren't outrageous in an attention grabbing way
00:58:40 <Fiora> kmc: yeah I'm not sure anyone here needs convincing of that one <.<
00:58:44 <Bike> one of the radio guys anyway
00:59:08 <Bike> i remember hearing some ruckus with dittoheads or whoever complaining about some company pulling ads because that's censorship
00:59:42 <kmc> freedom of speech means freedom from consequences for speech, right?
00:59:47 <kmc> I'm pretty sure that's how it works
00:59:54 <Fiora> kmc: except when it's people you don't like
00:59:55 <Bike> like, duh, man.
01:00:19 <Fiora> "<racist thing>" "that's racist!" "you're just trying to censor me!" "actually we're kinda just saying you're racist"
01:00:23 <Phantom_Hoover> so like i'm pretty sure that question's going to classify the objectivist line as 'economic left'
01:00:33 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: that sounds like a different kind of fraud...
01:00:50 <Bike> " it consists, in essence, of one man receiving the material values, goods or services of another, then refusing to pay for them" doesn't sound like lying
01:00:59 <Phantom_Hoover> "Fraud involves a similarly indirect use of force: it consists of obtaining material values without their owner’s consent, under false pretenses or false promises."
01:01:00 <Bike> except in an extremely bizarre sense of "material" i guess?
01:01:34 <Bike> i mean basically in rand's world the state should only exist to enforce contracts (as in actual contracts, not "the social contract" or whatever)
01:01:37 <Phantom_Hoover> that sounds like 'misleading someone into performing some exchange with you'
01:02:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, yeah; and it seems to me like she thought fraud falls within that remit
01:02:10 <Bike> you know what, can we just agree that neither of us want to think too deeply about rand? because i really don't
01:02:20 <Bike> i mean it's definitely a dumb question.
01:03:14 <Phantom_Hoover> well... all i'm trying to say here is that i think the compass is slanted towards 'left-libertarian', not right
01:03:17 <kmc> a million randian digits with 100000 normal deviates
01:03:37 <Bike> honestly, maybe it is, i thought that it was designed by libertarians but i guess that's not the case
01:04:26 <Phantom_Hoover> they are a pretty dominant source of internet political bullshit
01:04:48 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: imagining trolling r/libertarian or whatever by asking them if this news example constitutes government-punishable fraud
01:04:52 <kmc> sadly this means anyone who wants more than a one dimensional political spectrum is suspected of being a libertarian
01:05:37 <Bike> personally i think i'm pretty against any dimensionality :V
01:06:19 <Bike> probably because i like reading about mideast politics and i don't think you can quantify much of that with axes
01:06:51 <Bike> heh, well i think it's similar to any politics if you look closely enough
01:07:33 <Bike> i'm not sure how much good a compass gets you outside of the american two-party sort of system
01:07:56 <kmc> I think Americans have a tendency to make the israeli/palestinean conflict sound more complicated than it is
01:08:08 <kmc> and to overstate the role of religion and supposed ancient grudges and stuff
01:08:29 <Phantom_Hoover> they did apply it to the uk parties: http://www.politicalcompass.org/ukparties2010
01:08:38 <Bike> i mean saying "the democrats are left and the republicans are right" basically tells you nothing helpful about their policies, and as you keep going you realize wait yeah the parties are just "big tents"
01:08:50 <kmc> surprise they're both on the right
01:08:53 <Bike> kmc: oh my god if i hear another person talk about how x and y have been fighting for "thousands of years"
01:09:10 <Bike> saudi arabia didn't even EXIST before the 20th century youa ssholes
01:09:22 <Phantom_Hoover> i do like the split between the nationalist parties there though
01:09:37 <Bike> i was gonna say the BNP/UKIP thing is funny
01:10:28 <kmc> I mean framing it that way provides a lot of political cover for Israel
01:10:37 <Bike> kmc: but yeah, palestianians didn't really care about jews before the whole.. israel thing, bla bla you know this
01:11:03 <Bike> it's lazy and yeah lends itself to "well they're just irrational, better give up and support Peace and Stability"
01:11:23 <Phantom_Hoover> like how there are the 'british' nationalists (bnp/dup/ukip) and the 'constituent' nationalists (sinn fein/plaid cymru/snp/sdlp)
01:11:53 <Bike> are there many scottish people in the BNP
01:12:18 <Bike> tbh i mostly think of the BNP as the fuck muslims party
01:12:32 <Phantom_Hoover> that this site is hosted on blogspot speaks for itself, i feel
01:12:53 <Bike> "Yes, I know we have read about these cases before where the undesirable cannot be kicked out of Britain after a court say`s that it would deny them of the right to family life." and i'm done.
01:13:01 <Bike> undesirable. undesirable
01:13:14 <kmc> SNP isn't "nationalist" in the fascist way though, are they?
01:13:52 <Bike> how's the referendum stuff going, btw
01:13:59 <kmc> I kind of want Scottish independence to succeed just because it would be interesting, but I have zero skin in the game and zero real understanding of the consequences
01:14:03 <Bike> have you destroyed UK unity yet
01:14:14 <Phantom_Hoover> it will definitely be 'no' but the english don't seem to realise that
01:14:32 <Bike> that's what i gathered i think
01:14:35 <kmc> why will it definitely be 'no'
01:15:24 <Phantom_Hoover> because public sentiment is towards no by a significant margin, from every single projection i've seen
01:16:27 -!- ais523 has quit.
01:16:28 <Bike> so, why is sentiment like that
01:16:54 <kmc> there's more than a year of campaigning ahead though
01:17:43 <Bike> there's a staunch unionist in the SA thread who is an annoying git and has an avatar of the Stig, which is enough to make me wish for independence. i'm a solid political thinker.
01:17:54 <kmc> who/what is the Stig
01:18:17 <Bike> top gear is funny but the presenters are kind of douches sometimes
01:18:32 <kmc> douchery is the source of all wit (not really)
01:18:35 <Phantom_Hoover> was originally going to be called the gimp but someone at the bbc told clarkson he wasn't at repton any more
01:19:36 <Phantom_Hoover> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7CnMQ4L9Pc stewart lee on the topic
01:21:12 <Phantom_Hoover> (i didn't check, but if that's the video where he mention's gordon brown's half-blindness i would like to point out that brown actually went blind playing rugby at university and so completely deserved it)
01:24:49 <Bike> rugby, the silent killer
01:28:23 <kmc> Moffett Airfield was going to be called Mountain View Airport but somebody pointed out this is an ominous name for an airport
01:28:33 <boily> THE PINEAPLLES MOVE! MWAH AH AH AH AH AH! I CAN GO SLEEP!
01:28:39 <kmc> right then
01:28:44 <kmc> i'll have what he's having
01:29:15 <boily> woohoo, 11.5 hours of work...
01:29:33 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, i got confused there for a second and thought it was a crack at doctor who
01:29:52 <boily> kmc: our client is an import and distributor of fruits and veggies. I'm working on shipments, and my test data revolves around pineapples.
01:30:24 <boily> sorry about the sudden insanity. I am not insane. everything is fine.
01:38:10 <boily> time to inhale a bigmac. goodnight all.
01:38:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
01:38:15 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:52:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
02:44:04 -!- zzo38 has joined.
02:44:25 <zzo38> What needs to be made more complex?
02:45:10 <Sgeo> zzo38: numbers
02:45:35 <Sgeo> Need to get them off the axises (axes?)
02:46:33 <zzo38> Sgeo: Do you mean complex numbers? What about the axes is this about?
02:47:43 <Sgeo> Yes, I was referring to complex numbers. I was saying numbers need to be made more complex, and by moving them off the axes, I intended to suggest making them have both a real and imaginary part. Although I guess real numbers are complex too.
02:50:27 <zzo38> Complex numbers do have a real and imaginary part. Real numbers are a special case (in that the value and operators convert from real to complex homomorphically)
02:51:50 <Sgeo> Well, being off the axes implies nonzero real and imaginary parts, which isn't really necessary
02:53:23 <zzo38> What exactly are you meaning by that? I can see that if you are writing it as a point on a X-Y axis then that is how it works, but I don't know what you mean, especially since you write "which isn't really necessary" too
02:54:32 <Sgeo> As I understand it, 5 + 0i is a complex number, but it is on an axis. I mistakenly implied in my joke that it would have to have nonzero real and imaginary parts to be considered a complex number.
02:56:11 <zzo38> O, that's whaty ou meant by it. Yes "5 + 0i" is a complex number (and it is equal to a natural number 5)
02:58:01 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
02:58:24 <lambdabot> boily said 5h 35m 11s ago: our DM's been working for some time now on a custom system that we haven't tested yet.
02:58:58 <zzo38> boily isn't on right now, but I can tell of my system (and variants of 3.5e which we use)
03:01:57 <zzo38> I use LA (which 4e lacks), and don't use CR and EL (4e keeps these features); my own (unfinished and untested) custom system is like this too; it uses LA although it is called "pseudolevels" instead since I think that is a better name for it.
03:03:26 -!- thedeco has joined.
03:04:19 <thedeco> Can anyone here help me figure out what language this is written in?
03:04:22 <thedeco> 3 3 3 3***1_+,10 3 3**7+,100 16 2_++,3__3__3_3_***19+16+,4_4_*2*,10$*1+10$*4$*1_++10$*1+$$3+$5-10_10_*23+10_6_*2_+7$*,,,,,,,,,
03:05:04 <thedeco> >99*1-,25*:*3-,25*:*44*+2-,25*:*44*+,84*,96*1-,97*5-,25*:*1+,25*:*25*+,v @,*52,+*55*:*52,**52*52<
03:05:21 <zzo38> Where did you find that?
03:05:35 <zzo38> I don't think they are satanic runes, though
03:05:46 <Bike> do you have any proof
03:06:03 <zzo38> No, I am just guessing
03:06:14 <Bike> actually wait, i've seen this before maybe. i think it was TECO or something related
03:10:19 <thedeco> It was a challenge a buddy has me working on to solve
03:10:40 <thedeco> It was a puzzle with 5 parts
03:10:47 <Bike> er not teco. one of those old things
03:10:50 <thedeco> first part was the first one
03:11:02 <thedeco> second part was written in zombie
03:11:06 <Bike> _ probably indicates negation and it's otherwise postfix. maybe
03:11:36 <thedeco> 5th is the second one i posted
03:12:32 <Bike> http://scientopia.org/blogs/goodmath/2010/11/30/the-glorious-horror-of-teco/ eh, doesn't look as similar as i thought
03:12:40 <Bike> it's like some weird mash of dc, i don't know
03:13:10 <Bike> i don't think dc uses comma though.
03:13:27 <Bike> does vi have postfix arithmetic? i haven't a damn clue
03:13:30 <thedeco> they remind me of a linear brainfuck like language I just have never seen it
03:13:45 <Bike> it's not much like brainfix, it's pretty obviously postfix arithmeticing
03:13:54 <thedeco> no amount of googling has helped me
03:15:37 <Bike> like 3 3 3 3***1_+ means 3*3*3*3-1, probably, and then i kinda lose it because i don't know what the comma is
03:17:10 -!- mnoqy has joined.
03:17:16 <thedeco> if you treated it just like a comma maybe it is simply a message
03:17:36 <zzo38> If they are ASCII codes then the first three letters are "Par"
03:19:34 <thedeco> zzo38: How did you derive that?
03:19:40 <zzo38> But there are more commas at the end as well as dollar signs, maybe dollar sign is DUP and comma is EMIT perhaps?
03:21:02 <thedeco> on a side note anyone know where I can find a zombie code interpreter?
03:32:19 <zzo38> I realize that the Hackiki changes list has something like "summary: medit/bin/uselessness_rpg_1,,game_rules chebang=#!/usr/bin/env .wiki cont=== Ability scores ==" so some parameters are in the summary; perhaps another edit summary field can be added using this, then? (Such as adding a field called "A" comes before "chebang", could be used)
03:33:27 <Sgeo> Software Downloads Associated with File Extension WAGAME:
03:33:27 <Sgeo> • FileViewPro* (free trial download)
03:33:27 <Sgeo> • Worms Armageddon Game Replay (Team17)
03:33:30 <Sgeo> slimey bastards
03:34:45 <zzo38> Not sure what the first thing has to do but I suppose "WAGAME" can be considered short for "Worms Armageddon Game". Maybe FileViewPro is supporting a lot of file types?
03:35:17 <Sgeo> FileViewPro is blatantly a piece of software that that website I pasted from is involved with
03:35:41 <Sgeo> I think they just say that, for any file extension, FileViewPro can open it
03:36:03 <Sgeo> Different site: http://www.openfileguide.com/article/How-to-open-.WAGAME-file.html
03:36:09 <Sgeo> haha meeting.WAGAME
03:36:37 <Sgeo> Had a very important meeting thru a Worms game
03:36:42 <zzo38> Then it should be listed in a separate list, saying "all file" in the result menu, and if you click that one then it says FileViewPro
03:37:33 <Sgeo> ".WAGAME file extension is popular essentially, for its role is important in various Windows Operating Systems. And it also features in many other functions and programs on the PC. This file extension is very important in the successful performance of the taks on the PC. "
03:39:04 <Sgeo> Hmm, starting to occur to me that I shouldn't have opened that link on my real Windows system
03:39:07 -!- mrout has joined.
03:40:06 <zzo38> I managed to add a edit summary into Hackiki now.
03:41:01 <zzo38> This is a good things about Hackiki; anyone can modify the program to make it do these kind of things!
03:41:12 <mrout> Are there any esoteric languages that are like Forth except with a queue instead of a stack? Because if not there will be one by the end of the day :P
03:42:07 <Sgeo> That reminds me, I still need to make Braintrust 2
03:51:59 <zzo38> mrout: I don't know; you can check.
03:52:47 <zzo38> But I think a Forth program can be made that implements commands for treating the stack as a queue
03:52:49 <mrout> http://i.imgur.com/F1IMP3s.png http://i.imgur.com/INevznF.png
03:52:58 <mrout> if you want more info on what I mean
03:53:35 <zzo38> I do know what you mean already
03:54:28 <zzo38> It is probably possible to implement queue Forth in Forth.
03:54:55 <Sgeo> I guess Rebol, insofar it can be considered along those lines, still acts more stackish than queueish
03:55:14 <Sgeo> Just a reverse stack than is typical
03:55:57 <mrout> I've never used Rebol, how does it work
03:56:48 <Sgeo> The language as a whole, or the bit that's relevant to this discussion?
03:57:26 <mrout> the bit that's relevant to this discussion
03:57:38 <mrout> in the appropriate context of the language of a whole, if that's required
03:57:54 <Sgeo> Ok. Keep in mind that this is just a portion of the language that's, in a sense, default as a programming language:
03:58:24 <Sgeo> When you have a word, like add, it tries to take in the next two arguments. But in its place you could also have a word, which will then take its arguments first
03:58:34 <Sgeo> So, if you have words like add, you could do something like
03:58:38 <Sgeo> add add 1 1 add 2 2
03:59:16 <mrout> and is that any different to add(add(1,1),add(2,2))
03:59:59 <Bike> except that the arities have to be fixed.
04:00:19 <Sgeo> But this works too: add add add 2 2 1 1
04:00:44 <Sgeo> Yes, arities have to be fixed
04:00:46 <mrout> add(add(2,2),add(1,1)) or add(add(add(2,2),1),1)?
04:01:12 <mrout> (I mean, in the context of add it's all associative so it doesn't actually matter, but let's pretend addition isn't associative for a moment)
04:01:19 <Sgeo> The latter (I think
04:03:44 <Sgeo> It acts a lot like a reverse Forth, basically
04:03:50 <Sgeo> Except no actual stack
04:03:57 <Sgeo> Well, there is a stack, I guess
04:04:08 <Sgeo> Just not one that persists between commands
04:05:46 <Sgeo> http://www.re-bol.com/rebol.html#section-6.1.1
04:06:59 <Sgeo> ^^much saner than anything I can say
04:17:53 -!- dessos has joined.
04:22:30 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
04:24:05 -!- sacje has joined.
04:41:40 <pikhq> modprobe -r brcsmac;modprobe brcsmac ;# why does this fix my wifi?
04:54:38 <Gracenotes> in the two days I waited to get plane tickets, prices went up $200
04:55:16 <shachaf> Are you ticketing to Boston?
04:57:38 <zzo38> I changed the money in Uselessness RPG into euro currency instead of yen, so that it isn't the same letter.
04:59:02 <Gracenotes> hm. I can get jetblue here and virgin back, for about, hm
04:59:29 <Gracenotes> hm. that's not super, but passable, I suppose...
05:02:49 -!- dan200 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
05:04:43 <Gracenotes> okay, looks like friday is a bit of an anomaly; I should just go the next day
05:41:42 <Gracenotes> I think it's probably a good idea to get travel insurance on a return trip that's not part of a roundtrip?
05:42:22 <Bike> souns reasonable
05:43:27 <Gracenotes> airplanes are weird. I'm going on them more nowadays, though. very exciting.
05:45:22 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Excess Flood).
05:46:22 -!- SirCmpwn has joined.
06:00:57 <zzo38> The edit summary I added in Hackiki works despite not being programmed to do anything; it is just a <input name="A"> in the editor, and the editor program doesn't do anything with it.
06:14:47 <ion> There’s a Finnish news article <http://www.talouselama.fi/uutiset/onko+tassa+kaikkien+aikojen+paras+nappaimistokikka/a2200348> about an English article <http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/08/22/keyboard_shortcut_helps_recover_lost_browser_tabs.html> about a tweet <https://twitter.com/meliarobin/status/370617786260680704> which reveals that (drumroll) you can reopen closed tabs with
06:14:49 <ion> ctrl/cmd-shift-t. The title of the Finnish article translates to “Is this the best keyboard gimmick of all time?”
06:15:09 <Bike> to be fair, it is
06:16:30 -!- mrout has left ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)").
06:24:12 <zzo38> The mailing list is an interesting feature of Hackiki too.
06:25:57 <zzo38> Why does the mailing list add a space after a comma in the title?
06:26:24 <shachaf> ion: did you do the exercises
06:30:00 <ion> shachaf: Not yet. I have been studying flight dynamics.
07:06:02 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:21:06 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:22:56 <oklopol> "no more called-out cusswords, no more wishing the back button had you covered when, aiming to click on a tab, you accidentally hit the little X on the tab’s starboard." is it so hard to click the reopen tab button that you have to start cursing?
07:23:04 <oklopol> or did chrome not have that at some point
07:24:22 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
07:55:40 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
07:56:15 -!- quintopia has joined.
08:08:16 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
08:10:28 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello).
08:40:43 -!- augur_ has joined.
08:42:30 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:09:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
09:45:44 -!- oerjan has joined.
09:47:18 -!- Taneb has joined.
09:54:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
09:56:53 <lambdabot> boily said 12h 3m 35s ago: お休みなさい！
09:57:34 * oerjan uses google translate. it is super effective!
09:58:18 <oerjan> 's actually surprisingly long to mean just "good night", isn't it.
09:58:36 * elliott just assumed you said "that hth" or something
09:58:54 <elliott> it looks like it's in hiragana rather than kanji?
09:58:58 <elliott> help I don't know anything
09:59:43 <elliott> maybe not. god. I don't know
10:00:49 <Taneb> > length "お休みなさい！"
10:00:55 <Taneb> > length "goodnight!"
10:01:25 <oerjan> except google translate suggests the even longer おやすみなさい！
10:01:37 <Taneb> > length "おやすみなさい！"
10:02:17 <oerjan> long for a language with syllabic characters, Taneb
10:02:37 <oerjan> (and sometimes more than syllabic)
10:06:39 <fizzie> `run perl -MEncode -Mutf8 -e 'print length(encode("UTF-8", "おやすみなさい！"));' # then again
10:07:52 <oerjan> @tell boily God ettermiddag!
10:08:15 -!- MindlessDrone has joined.
10:10:02 <elliott> "Texture 2.0 (my Haskell based visual live programming language) is working a bit more. It has reached gabber zero – the point at which a programming language is able to support the production of live techno."
10:12:05 <oerjan> learning names of new subgenres of music genres i already don't listen to makes me feel so old.
10:12:40 <Taneb> oerjan, my brother's a glitch-hop/jazz mashup fan
10:13:08 <oerjan> you trying to kill me with old age here
10:14:27 <Taneb> I'm not even sure what glitch-hop is and I'm the same age as some hip young teenagers
10:15:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
10:15:56 <fizzie> I assume it's some kind of "hop" made out of audio resulting from video game glitches.
10:17:12 <oerjan> should make a new subgenre of lindy hop just to confuse people
10:35:38 <oerjan> the point would be that it's _not_ hiphop, olsner
10:40:22 -!- heroux has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
10:40:22 -!- heroux_ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
10:41:07 -!- heroux has joined.
10:44:14 <fizzie> Huphop is made by kill -1'ing processes.
11:18:03 <elliott> oerjan: how has your hth treatment been going so far, twh
11:18:59 <fizzie> Is that when you spend small amounts of time breathing pure hth?
11:19:07 <oerjan> <mrout> Are there any esoteric languages that are like Forth except with a queue instead of a stack? Because if not there will be one by the end of the day :P
11:19:30 <elliott> fizzie: it's when you run a perl script written by me with zero testing to run inside your IRC client for some reason
11:19:42 <oerjan> and no one managed to mention any of the heap we've already got
11:20:20 <oerjan> and MSM's "successor", both from just last week or so
11:20:29 <oerjan> (did you see my MSM queue twh)
11:21:20 <elliott> look oerjan, I can make the script more complicated or you can cooperate!!
11:21:20 <oerjan> i blame corruption from the visual field
11:21:54 <elliott> probably ) should be added to the punctuation it looks for after a forbidden word
11:22:29 <oerjan> you need a function for how to combine if there is punctuation _both_ before and after
11:23:03 <oerjan> (i think you are just discarding both at the moment, which is of course anathema to )
11:23:36 <elliott> on the other hand, imbalancing your parentheses will encourage you to omit the word!
11:24:46 <oerjan> elliott: also i did at least _read_ your script before installing it. i'm not completely crazy. wait, i am, just not in that way. hm i guess it's not complete if it's not in every way
11:25:32 <elliott> it's something like the third to fifth perl program I've ever written. and the first irssi script.
11:26:18 <elliott> https://github.com/fis/mcmap/blob/master/block.pl and https://github.com/fis/mcmap/blob/master/protocol.pl are the only ones I remember actually using
11:26:55 <oerjan> @tell mrout You might want to check out Qdeql, Sqecl, Fueue, MSM and STXTRM (the latter added in just recent days, and somewhere half between stack and queue in practice)
11:27:30 <fizzie> You got me wondering "why is there a hth-related Irssi script in the mcmap repository" for a moment there.
11:36:05 -!- mnoqy has joined.
11:37:59 -!- Koen_ has joined.
11:42:45 -!- nooodl has joined.
11:44:18 -!- nooodl_ has joined.
11:47:42 -!- nooodl has quit (Disconnected by services).
11:47:49 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl.
11:50:28 <oerjan> <ion> ctrl/cmd-shift-t. The title of the Finnish article translates to “Is this the best keyboard gimmick of all time?” <-- seeing as i use it all the f time...
12:29:43 <oklopol> oerjan: the two goodnights are the same, one just uses the kanji for yasumi, and the other writes it in hiragana
12:34:27 <oklopol> actually the kanji was just yasu
12:35:58 <oerjan> slight experimentation splitting the phrase up seemed to indicate that it contained no parts corresponding to either "good" or "night" :P
12:43:38 <Deewiant> If it was oyasuminasai then "yasumi" kind of corresponds to "night"
12:47:09 <oerjan> google gives "rest" for that.
12:47:38 <oerjan> so i guess it essentially translates to "Go get some rest!"
12:48:58 <Deewiant> I see it akin to something like "have a [good] rest"
12:50:00 -!- yorick has joined.
13:11:11 -!- conehead has joined.
13:24:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Well Quebec would probably be gone while no one was paying attention.).
13:26:04 -!- boily has joined.
13:26:13 -!- metasepia has joined.
13:38:45 <Sgeo> http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/2009/05/29/changes-in-operas-user-agent-string-format
13:45:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
13:51:32 -!- ^v has joined.
13:51:41 <boily> good remote morning!
13:51:51 <lambdabot> oerjan said 3h 43m 58s ago: God ettermiddag!
13:52:09 <boily> uhm. what's an ettermiddag? is it like a fternooner?
13:52:14 <metasepia> middag og frem til kveld Vi skal mtes i ettermiddag.
13:53:38 <boily> @tell oerjan Veien å gå med den sleipe curveball, du djevel.
13:54:26 <boily> google translate confirms it is a fternooner.
13:56:23 <boily> `learn fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”) is a screamingly delicious pastry.
14:03:14 -!- carado has joined.
14:03:51 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: no hello for you, you boogler.
14:05:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
14:07:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
14:07:44 <Roujo> 'morning, #esoteric
14:14:51 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com).
14:41:46 -!- Zuu has changed nick to DeadZuu.
14:42:21 * boily sweeps the cadavers under the rug
14:43:12 <Roujo> boily: Are they that exquisite that you have to hide them?
14:44:31 <boily> I don't like inedible cadavers.
14:48:49 <boily> haskell question: is it possible to create your own deriving?
14:52:17 <elliott> no, but you can do similar things
14:54:59 <boily> does it involve TH?
14:55:16 <elliott> the latest thing is "GHC generics" (not the same as "SYB generics" and stuff)
14:55:17 <boily> ah! I can go another day without learning TH!
14:55:24 <elliott> you do "data Foo = ... deriving (Generic)
14:55:55 -!- DeadZuu has changed nick to Zuu.
14:56:23 <boily> Roujo: can you unrug Zuu for me please? I'm busy learning what (Generic) is.
14:56:49 <elliott> it's kind of horrific to use
14:57:13 <boily> oh. and there I hoped it would be easier to understand than that sybbing stuff.
14:57:19 <Roujo> I should learn Haskell, I guess =P
14:58:28 <Roujo> Oh, Zuu, question for you
14:58:38 <boily> Roujo: je te vois venir.
14:58:49 <Roujo> Is it Time To Tell The Truth Tuesday where you live?
14:58:53 <Zuu> Roujo: what question?
14:59:00 <boily> Roujo: oh. a new one, eh?
14:59:48 <Zuu> Roujo: imho, it is alwyas time to tell the truth where i live, and everywhere i dont live, unless the truth has no purpose other than making yourself happy.
15:00:05 <Roujo> Zuu: I see. Thank you ^^
15:00:20 <Roujo> I thought I had recognized where I knew your name from, but it seems it might just be a coincidence =P
15:00:43 <Zuu> Roujo: I dont quite recognize yours :P
15:01:03 <Roujo> Zuu: I don't use the same nick over there either =P
15:05:25 <Roujo> So, let's say I want to learn Haskell
15:05:32 <Roujo> Having heard about it for so long
15:05:43 <Roujo> What would be a good starting point?
15:08:17 <boily> Roujo: http://learnyouahaskell.com/
15:08:38 <Roujo> That sentence... hurts =P
15:08:56 <Roujo> I'll look into that
15:09:26 <boily> once you're done reading it a few times forwards and backwards, keep the Typeclassopedia as a reference, and then you're gold.
15:26:51 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
15:28:15 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:49:49 -!- conehead has joined.
16:05:40 -!- hypha has joined.
16:28:33 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?").
16:34:10 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com).
16:38:41 -!- zzo38 has joined.
16:39:56 -!- conehead has joined.
16:54:35 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
17:01:53 -!- Taneb has joined.
17:09:40 <boily> Roujo: so, how's the great good learning going on? ☻
17:10:01 <Roujo> So not really going on at all, really
17:10:35 -!- Koen_ has joined.
17:10:52 <boily> btw, what are your lunch options in Lachine? can you go out? cafétéria? do you have to bring your own lunches?
17:12:03 <Koen_> Lachine? is that that big country in Lasie?
17:12:53 <boily> that's our local version of china. Local China → L-Chine → Lachine.
17:13:28 <boily> incidentally, you can see Lachine as a kind of zerg nexus, as it's near the airport.
17:13:51 <fizzie> It sounds kind of Final Fantasyish.
17:14:13 <fizzie> You know, fal'Cie and all that.
17:14:20 <metasepia> The fal'Cie (ա Farushi) [flsi] are supernatural beings in Final Fantasy XIII.
17:14:43 <HackEgo> Roujo is still a Java heretic. His claim to Canadianness is soon to be verified by boily, treaties be damned. A cocktail and destruction of the Universe are scheduled at 19h00.
17:14:45 <zzo38> Do you know what telephone number "+55555" is?
17:15:16 <boily> zzo38: probably somewhere in Brasil.
17:15:36 <Roujo> boily: I work in Dorval, really. There are lunch options, but I just bring my lunch,.
17:16:26 <boily> `learn Roujo is a Java heretic leaning on ungrammatical Haskell. His claim to Canadianness is marred by an unholy portal to China. The treaties suffer, so the cocktail will be postponed.
17:17:24 <fizzie> It could also be some sort of placeholdery kind of number, by way of comparison with the fictional 555 US area code.
17:18:05 <boily> zzo38: 55 - Santa Maria / Uruguaiana / Cruz Alta (western Rio Grande do Sul)
17:18:46 <boily> mind you, that only amounts to four fives. the last one is probably part of a local xchange.
17:19:07 <fizzie> boily: Or possibly it's not a real number at all. Not everything that shows as the caller number is always true.
17:19:43 <boily> I believe in aliens, 555 numbers, and Canada!
17:20:28 <thedeco> anyone know how I would run this or what language this is written in?
17:20:32 <thedeco> 3 3 3 3***1_+,10 3 3**7+,100 16 2_++,3__3__3_3_***19+16+,4_4_*2*,10$*1+10$*4$*1_++10$*1+$$3+$5-10_10_*23+10_6_*2_+7$*,,,,,,,,,
17:20:46 <Koen_> that looks like a stack-based language
17:20:49 <fizzie> Probably something stack-ba...
17:20:54 <fizzie> Stop pre-empting people like that!
17:20:59 <zzo38> I think I figured it out, although haven't tried it
17:21:27 <kmc> are you sure it's not a.... brainfuck derivative
17:21:33 <fizzie> I think I vaguely recall something where _ was subtraction.
17:21:43 <Koen_> kmc: there are stack-based brainfuck derivative!
17:21:45 <thedeco> I looked at a lot of them and I couldn't find anything that included numbers
17:21:46 <fizzie> (Kind of like dc, where - is subtraction and therefore you use _ as the sign for negative numbers.)
17:21:51 <Koen_> thedeco: so in order to run it you'd need a stack
17:21:57 <Koen_> and to figure out what the operators do
17:22:13 <Koen_> you can guess that * does a multiplication and + an addition
17:22:17 <Koen_> as for the others eeeeeeeh
17:22:24 <fizzie> You can also sort-of guess that _ would be subtraction.
17:22:40 <boily> is it asciified APL? J?
17:22:50 <Koen_> spaces are just separators imho
17:22:53 <fizzie> Well, maybe not subtraction, after looking at that sequence.
17:23:02 <fizzie> Spaces are most likely separating numbers, yes.
17:23:18 <Koen_> so that you don't get confused between 3333 as three thousand three hundred thirty-three and 3 3 3 3 as three three three three
17:23:21 <fizzie> You could make an educated guess that , has to do with printing output.
17:23:37 <zzo38> Yes I think , is EMIT
17:23:41 <boily> maybe 3333 is a phone number?
17:23:55 <zzo38> I think I know what it is. I am testing my hypothesis now.
17:23:57 <fizzie> 3*3*3*3 == 81, which is right there in the printable-ASCII range.
17:24:03 <Koen_> you know what we'd need? a search-engine for esolangs based on instructions
17:24:55 <boily> Koen_: that's some pretty good idea you got there.
17:25:22 <thedeco> given the instructions here are the languages that use them
17:25:29 <boily> we could get fizzie to ML the fungot out of that DB, and if someone tries something original that has no hit, then we've got ourselves a shiny new esolang!
17:25:29 <fungot> boily: marina. the name of agincourt. yet sit and see, minding true things, by what you were, and as oft is dumbe, where dust, and be a happy mother by the deed
17:25:53 <fizzie> And 10 3 3**7+, is clearly 'a'.
17:25:53 <boily> also, if one submits something that suspiciously looks like a bf derivative, then *WHACK* IP ban.
17:25:55 <Koen_> okay pizza's waiting for me
17:26:15 <thedeco> that system could help me solve the next challenge which is >99*1-,25*:*3-,25*:*44*+2-,25*:*44*+,84*,96*1-,97*5-,25*:*1+,25*:*25*+,v @,*52,+*55*:*52,**52*52<
17:26:35 <thedeco> boily: im a noob here why?
17:26:50 <Deewiant> That looks like improperly wrapped befunge
17:27:21 <Deewiant> It prints "Part 5:end}" if wrapped correctly
17:27:22 <fizzie> Yes, presumably the < on the right end should go under the v.
17:27:48 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
17:28:30 <thedeco> Deewiant: that was correct!
17:28:34 <boily> thedeco: brainfsck derivatives are trite, unoriginal, background noise and unwanted. there's a long history of various regulars battling the Hordes of Poor Brainfsck Rewrites.
17:29:04 <kmc> I don't think they all are
17:29:14 <kmc> it's more that it's too easy to create uninteresting bf derivatives
17:29:16 <boily> well, ook is unique imho hth.
17:29:16 <kmc> and lots of people do
17:29:20 <thedeco> down to the last part which is the 3 3 3 3 one
17:29:21 <kmc> if you create an interesting one, more power to ya
17:29:43 <thedeco> one of the parts was ook lol
17:30:26 <fizzie> Oh, it starts with "Pa", then.
17:30:37 <fizzie> In which case _ is probably "negate top value".
17:30:50 <thedeco> it would be Part 1: then followed by something
17:31:13 <fizzie> (Given that 3*3*3*3-1 is 80 which is 'P'; and 10*3*3+7 is 97 which is 'a'.)
17:31:51 -!- ^v has joined.
17:31:52 <kmc> deriving the language from an example program and output is a fun game
17:32:08 <fizzie> And that 4_4_*2*, is an obvious space ((-4)*(-4)*2 = 32); so you just need to guess a meaning for $.
17:32:55 <fizzie> Oh, there's the same number of $s than ,s? Perhaps it's a dup.
17:33:59 <Deewiant> Then it's "Part 1:{cheese" (without a line break following)
17:34:14 <Deewiant> (A few simple replacements make it befunge)
17:34:25 * elliott wonders if the point of such a challenge is not to do it yourself
17:34:42 -!- conehead has joined.
17:34:43 <fizzie> Still missing the name of the language, though. (Unless it's a custom one.)
17:35:11 <thedeco> elliott: I promise i used the google machine before I asked others
17:35:22 <fizzie> Hey, isn't that just FALSE?
17:35:37 <fizzie> It has _ for negation and $ for dup.
17:35:50 <fizzie> (And , for "write a character".)
17:36:15 <boily> oh, and while it is still time...
17:36:17 <fizzie> Man, I'm kind of ashamed for not recognizing FALSE.
17:36:22 <HackEgo> thedeco: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
17:36:46 <boily> we need a seminary to get us back on track with esolanging and on-töpic discussions.
17:37:08 <zzo38> I did think $ is DUP but maybe I did something wrong when converting to Forth
17:38:27 <Deewiant> Is there a good FALSE interpreter, PortableFalse says my compilers (gcc/clang/tcc) suck
17:39:25 <coppro> boily: I think you misunderstand what the topic here is
17:39:35 <coppro> if you think it's anything other than Hexham, you're wrong
17:40:30 <boily> coppro: yes, but we didn't recognized one of the Great Esolang Classics!
17:40:48 <coppro> boily: what makes you think this channel is about esolangs
17:41:00 -!- coppro has set topic: this channel is about Hexham.
17:41:16 <boily> coppro: oh, thanks. I got confused there, with the /topic.
17:41:38 <coppro> boily: yeah it happens
17:41:43 <boily> @tell tswett are you now properly undereffed?
17:41:58 <boily> coppro: so, how's life for you west of the border?
17:42:12 <coppro> (can someone reset the topic? I don't have the old one handy >_>)
17:42:33 <coppro> it's the week before the week before school
17:42:38 -!- boily has set topic: tswett needs noderefs | The welcomes of doom | 22nd IOCCC is open: http://ioccc.org/2013/rules.txt | jsvine is doing an esolang survey! │ Roujo.
17:42:40 <boily> :: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OvEsdBioOFcXFAiscO34kctUWKs3dWQs5-ZouXdwy9Q/viewform | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric | <AnotherTest> fizzie: true, it needs to be made more complex
17:42:59 -!- Taneb has joined.
17:43:00 <boily> can someone competent (meaning absolutely not me) change the /topic, please?
17:44:08 <boily> @tell jsvine SUUUUUURVEEEEEEEEEY..... (sonata in the key of Zombie♯ minor)
17:44:25 -!- coppro has set topic: Hexham discussion channel | 22nd IOCCC: http://ioccc.org/2013/rules.tex | esolang survey! http://goo.gl/UuOxzy | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric.
17:44:42 <boily> coppro: oh, school. that thing I don't have since 2011. MWAH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH!
17:44:49 <coppro> boily: the joke is on you!
17:44:59 <boily> otoh, I still have school-related nightmares.
17:45:23 <boily> coppro: I went through an engineering degree, tyvm.
17:45:37 <boily> (one of the worse decisions in my life.)
17:45:41 <coppro> boily: the joke is really on you then
17:45:55 <zzo38> boily: You wrote a message to me but when I read it, you aren't on so I can't reply.
17:46:18 <Taneb> I have just finished school and shall be going on to big school soon
17:46:50 <elliott> although it is plausible that the IOCCC would offer their rules in TeX format.
17:47:40 <zzo38> boily: Was it about a custom role playing system or something like that? Do you have details?
17:47:43 <boily> coppro: well, the University years themselves were great, but the paper at the end isn't worth much.
17:48:04 -!- Deewiant has set topic: Hexham discussion channel | 22nd IOCCC: http://ioccc.org/2013/rules.txt | esolang survey! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OvEsdBioOFcXFAiscO34kctUWKs3dWQs5-ZouXdwy9Q | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric.
17:48:07 <boily> zzo38: I wrote a message about that? I have some very vague memories about discussing this subject with you.
17:48:10 <coppro> boily: what are you doing now?
17:48:18 <coppro> elliott: why no url shorteners?
17:48:28 <zzo38> boily: I don't really remember either, but you can check the channel logs; the message should be there.
17:48:40 <boily> coppro: consulto-development with FOSS ☺
17:48:54 <boily> zzo38: nah. I'm too lazy today.
17:49:08 <boily> coppro: the job is very nice, and it's surrounded by Montréal.
17:49:14 <elliott> coppro: obscures link destination, allows unwarranted tracking
17:49:50 <boily> elliott: I like http://www.shadyurl.com/
17:50:43 <zzo38> boily: This is the copy of the message: boily said 5h 35m 11s ago: our DM's been working for some time now on a custom system that we haven't tested yet.
17:51:27 <boily> zzo38: oh, thanks!
17:51:38 <zzo38> I have also been working on a custom (incomplete and untested) role playing system. Some of the details can be described by differences from 3.5e. CR and EL are eliminiated. LA is retained in a slightly different form called "pseudolevels".
17:51:44 <zzo38> boily: Do you have details?
17:52:31 <boily> zzo38: not yet. he's been very secretive about it, except some interesting character mechanics (like a dragon-hybrid that uses his money to gain buffs)
17:52:57 <coppro> boily: surrounded by montreal is a definite plus
17:53:05 <coppro> (unlike surrounded by toronto, which is nearly a dealbreaker for me)
17:53:10 <Taneb> Can someone correct the grammar of this sentence: "I've ended up going to bring a couple of friends along."
17:53:15 <boily> zzo38: another friend in another group's been working on his own apple-pie-from-scratch system for about ~10 years.
17:53:17 <Taneb> I've ran out of grammar lira
17:53:23 <coppro> Taneb: the grammar is correct
17:53:33 <Taneb> coppro, it doesn't feel it
17:53:36 <boily> coppro: supposedly you can get nice korean food in TO. do you confirm?
17:53:48 <coppro> boily: I can neither confirm nor deny
17:53:52 <zzo38> boily: I am also working on a system, from scratch although with some ideas based on 3.5e, Magic: the Gathering, category theory, and other things.
17:53:58 <boily> Taneb: as a certified Francophone, the grammar is correct.
17:54:03 <coppro> boily: I will take no further questions on the matter
17:54:09 <boily> coppro: so you're a politician, eh?
17:54:24 <boily> zzo38: category... theory... in an RPG???
17:54:30 <coppro> boily: aspiring to be Harper's sucessor
17:54:36 <coppro> Taneb: possibly you want it to means something different that what it says. But the grammar is correct
17:54:42 <boily> coppro: as PET said, just watch me?
17:54:49 <zzo38> boily: Yes, the magical system involves many mathematical things.
17:55:04 <boily> we are doomed. DOOOOOOMED, I SAY!
17:55:09 <Taneb> I now want to add a clause "who aren't in the group", whose antecedent is "friends"
17:55:13 <Taneb> Where would I put it
17:55:23 <coppro> boily: and actually, yes, I am a student politician. I try not to evade questions, though :)
17:55:25 <zzo38> In mine, PCs and NPCs are treated equivalently. To make a player character look up what kind of creature you want your character to be, look up the number of pseudolevels (there will always be a number, unlike D&D), select your classes and how many levels you want in each, skills, feats, back story, etc
17:55:41 <zzo38> So mine hasn't any "player races" section.
17:55:48 <Taneb> Can I just tack it to the end?
17:55:52 <boily> coppro: are you badlingual in both official languages?
17:55:59 <Taneb> "I've ended up going to bring a couple of friends along, who aren't in the group."
17:56:05 <boily> zzo38: so it's gurpsian, too.
17:56:19 <coppro> boily: I'm far from fluent French, but I can pass
17:56:34 <zzo38> boily: I don't know what that means. What similarities and differences do the ones you know of having?
17:56:37 <coppro> and by "pass", I mean "speak French at a fancy restaurant in Montreal without the waiter ever switching to English"
17:56:53 <coppro> boily: my accent is pretty good, though, unlike PMSH
17:58:57 <coppro> boily: I'm not sure if that qualifies as "badlingual"
18:00:05 <zzo38> I don't like D&D 4e. However, it is kind of a coincidence that my system eliminated many things in 4e and kept many things that 4e eliminated; this was before 4e was announced.
18:00:40 <zzo38> My system is a bit less combat oriented; the "Fighter" class is the only one meant for combat and the other classes do other things.
18:02:16 <Koen_> coppro: montreal waiters are too gentle
18:02:18 <boily> coppro: I was refering to our Dear Leader, Jean Chrétien :D
18:02:59 <zzo38> boily: What are your opinions of these things so far?
18:03:03 <boily> coppro: I ordered in Japanese at a Mtl restaurant once. it worked.
18:03:04 <Koen_> coppro: on the other hand, they're probably less gentle than french waiters. french waiters don't speak english, so they're guaranteed not to switch languages
18:03:39 <boily> zzo38: sounds very tempting and intriguing. the pc/npc non-split is something that isn't spread enough around systems, imo.
18:04:55 <boily> Koen_: French waiters are scarce around the city. almost all of our waiters (fmvo almost all) are bilingual.
18:05:02 <boily> (fmvo: for a mathematician's value of)
18:05:21 <zzo38> 3.5e has almost PC/NPC equivalence; I have made some variations to 3.5e, one of which improves the equivalence. However, they still use different formats. My system uses the same format too; all the kind of creatures in the game are in one area, and all have pseudolevels rather than using CR.
18:05:39 <Koen_> boily: no I meant a french waiter in france
18:05:43 <coppro> Koen_: too gentle in what sense?
18:05:54 <Koen_> in the not switching to your language sense
18:06:06 <coppro> ah. That's not really my experience
18:06:19 <Koen_> first bar I've stopped in in germany, I order in german, they waiter answers in english
18:06:37 <Koen_> and he overheard me talking with my friends in french, so when I continue in english HE SWITCHES TO FRENCH
18:06:44 <Koen_> I felt so insulted
18:06:44 <Vorpal> God dammit, Windows 7's built in backup tool is useless. It gives random crappy error messages
18:07:05 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
18:07:07 <Vorpal> Any suggestions for full disk backups for windows 7 that works?
18:07:11 <zzo38> Also, all experience points in my system are ad hoc, with the exception of spells and class features that cost experience points.
18:07:17 <coppro> Koen_: he didn't recognize your lovely Québecois accent, clearly
18:07:30 <coppro> zzo38: spells and class features that cost xp are dumb hth
18:07:31 <Koen_> I'm french from france
18:07:53 <zzo38> (Learning additional spells beyond the ones automatically earned at level up costs experience points.)
18:08:06 <zzo38> coppro: I don't really agree; I think it can be good idea.
18:09:59 <boily> Vorpal: yes. that was one of my internship projects. it works just fine!
18:10:23 <Vorpal> boily, also it would all need to work from that computer, be when I press a button rather than automated (due to dual booting) and to an external USB HDD
18:10:31 <Vorpal> boily, I thought it cost money for windows?
18:10:38 <boily> one of my gloriousest windows moments: destroying everything I can think of, and see if the backup can restore it.
18:10:50 <Vorpal> Or that is what I think I saw the list on wikipedia say when I read it
18:11:06 <boily> Vorpal: you can launch manual backups, external USB HDD is a nonissue, it's free.
18:11:25 <Vorpal> boily, it uses shadow copy on windows?
18:11:25 <boily> yeah. I testify that I did it.
18:11:36 <Vorpal> boily, because shadow copy is the part that is borking
18:11:49 <Vorpal> So that is no good then
18:12:07 <boily> so how do you backup open files, then?
18:12:32 <Vorpal> boily, good question, well I guess shadow copy might work if another program calls it that isn't super-broken
18:12:57 <boily> bacula is strangely not borken. it takes some time to configure properly, but when it's up, it's up.
18:13:10 <Vorpal> boily, Anyway, what about restore? Can it restore to a completely new disk and not need to reactivate windows? Like a dd clone
18:13:12 <zzo38> Maybe looking at my D&D game recording might also give you some kind of idea what kind of features I like in the game.
18:14:03 <Vorpal> boily, Hm, so I need to setup many daemons it seems? All can run on the windows computer?
18:14:03 <boily> Vorpal: it can. there may be a little bit of manual involvement if you're working on a particularly screwed up install (like doing partial regbase restores), but otherwise you just have to wait.
18:14:27 <boily> base de registre? what's it called in English again?
18:14:30 <Vorpal> boily, I mean total disk failure scenario where you have to buy a new disk
18:14:42 <boily> oh. no worries, then.
18:15:35 <Vorpal> uh the website for bacula claims it is *not* free for windows
18:15:48 <Vorpal> http://bacula.org/en/?page=winbin
18:15:56 <Koen_> thedeco: so do you have any other questions like that one?
18:16:13 <boily> Vorpal: oh. that changed since 2008.
18:16:24 <Vorpal> boily, well then, any free suggestion?
18:17:19 <boily> Vorpal: seeing that I have trouble remembering what happened yesterday, delving to the Depths of Five Years Ago is going to be hard.
18:17:43 <boily> if you can backup from a linux CD, well...
18:18:06 <Vorpal> boily, I can easily back up from Linux, but I want incremental backups, not full blown dd images with no history
18:18:07 <boily> otherwise, je sèche. I kinda lost touch with the backup scene.
18:18:13 <Vorpal> I use rdiff-backup on Linux
18:18:46 <boily> Vorpal: I think the only reliable sources for that cost money. or, you could also compile bacula on windows, if you feel masöchistic enough.
18:19:18 <zzo38> I also retain the Profession skills, something which 4e eliminates. However, I also added tactical skills. I retained skill ranks and eliminated class/cross-class skills. You learn skill regardless of your class, although different classes have different number of skill points to spend.
18:19:19 <Vorpal> I do have VS2010 Ultimate around though
18:20:20 <boily> zzo38: skills are a prerequisite. the cleanest system I have ever seen comes from Fudge, but sadly I never had the chance to play it.
18:20:43 * boily shrugs at Vorpal. “anything goes!”
18:20:46 <Vorpal> boily, Time Machine, that is backup done right
18:20:48 <zzo38> I have one class "Expert" which has a highest number of skill points but not other features.
18:20:52 <Vorpal> Wish it wasn't apple only
18:21:05 <boily> Vorpal: with a shiny nas. simple, efficient, effortless.
18:21:11 <zzo38> The other two classes are "Divine" and "Arcane".
18:21:14 <Vorpal> boily, time machine + nas? Hm
18:21:35 <Vorpal> boily, the issue with a NAS is what happens if there is a lightning strike. Likely it will knock out any connected electronics
18:22:19 <boily> Vorpal: use your own power grid? harness the lightning for your arcane invocations? I dunno. lightning strikes all, and makes no difference.
18:22:34 <Vorpal> boily, it ignores off site backups :P
18:22:50 <boily> well, have a NAS on another continent :P
18:22:58 <Vorpal> yay, and I have ADSL...
18:23:08 <boily> can't be worse than tape backup.
18:23:12 <fizzie> Possible business plan: data storage on the moon?
18:23:28 <Vorpal> fizzie, it would survive a major meteor impact certainly
18:23:53 <fizzie> Getting at it after the collapse of civilization here might be an issue.
18:24:29 <boily> who cares about civilization? you have backups!
18:24:44 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:25:10 <Vorpal> Anyway I assume Time Machine keeps some sort of index over changed files all the time since it is so darn fast at doing a backup
18:26:50 <zzo38> One feature of my system is that a high level arcane caster who wants to have a lot of options will need to have a lot of strength, unless they spend most of their feats on mastering a lot of spells, or store their books at home and take the ones they need, or get someone else to carry their books for them, or whatever.
18:27:05 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello).
18:27:31 <boily> zzo38: as long as you maintain CCIH, everything is good.
18:27:40 <boily> (Character Creation Induced Headaches)
18:29:09 <zzo38> What are character creation induced headaches? Can you give some example please?
18:30:32 <boily> “should I put that point here, or there? or ditch that skill, hope to acquire it later during the campaign? but then if I don't have enough of that, the RP will get *weird*. and the DM's being a %#*%$ lately, so no chance of getting that around... AAAAAAAURGH!”
18:30:37 <boily> or something similar.
18:31:41 <zzo38> You would have such things, I suppose.
18:33:20 <zzo38> You can see my D&D games stuff (and possibly other stuff I wrote) for my kind of style. Spells needing to be used in creatively newly made up combinations is part of my style.
18:33:36 <zzo38> Monster characters is, too.
18:34:25 <zzo38> Using mundane techniques to defect magical ones can also help sometimes, to retain your spell slots/power points, so that they can be used later on, or just to not use magic too much in general.
18:36:14 <boily> as long as you can do stupid actions with awesome side-effects, I'm in.
18:36:49 <zzo38> Yes, you can, that is part of idea of my system; spells are used for their side-effects!
18:37:14 <zzo38> I have used spells for the sole reason that they expire.
18:37:28 <zzo38> Or because of their material components.
18:38:01 <zzo38> Or because of the limitation on the kind of targets it can target.
18:38:49 <zzo38> In Pokemon card, I have once played an evolution card for the sole purpose of increasing its retreat cost.
18:40:31 <zzo38> boily: Did you see my D&D game recordings? If you want to be notified of updates, subscribe to messages starting with "`danddreclist" or make the program notify you.
18:41:05 <HackEgo> danddreclist: shachaf nooodl
18:41:15 <boily> hm. how do I add myself?
18:41:28 <zzo38> Ask someone else about HackEgo if you want to add your name to the response.
18:41:32 <boily> zzo38: I think I did see them.
18:41:52 <boily> Gregor: GREGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR! can you dand me please? :D
18:42:08 <zzo38> (I don't actually know how, myself. However, better is subscribing to messages starting with "`danddreclist", probably)
18:42:31 <zzo38> (Note: When it is updated, I am always the sender and the session number will be added after "`danddreclist")
18:42:36 <boily> that reminds me that last Saturday I shouted the loudest «KAYAK» I ever heard, in front of about a hundred people. that was nice.
18:42:50 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ shachaf \ nooodl
18:43:08 <boily> I guess this settles the matter.
18:43:22 <nooodl> `run echo boily >> bin/danddreclist
18:43:28 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?").
18:43:35 <HackEgo> danddreclist: shachaf nooodl boily
18:43:42 <boily> (weechat probably can subscribe and/or whatever to messages, but I can't be arsed to figure out how.)
18:43:44 <HackEgo> http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex (the precompiled .dvi is also available)
18:43:55 <boily> ah! I have that one.
18:44:21 <zzo38> boily: OK. The latest session is 40, though.
18:45:51 <boily> oh, and while you're there, care to provide your body weigh, please?
18:47:19 <nooodl> `run sed -i bin/danddreclist 's|exit|echo http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex; exit|'
18:47:21 <HackEgo> sed: can't find label for jump to `in/danddreclist'
18:47:37 <boily> nooodl: I already have yours.
18:47:38 <nooodl> oh what did i even expect
18:47:58 <nooodl> `run sed -i 's|exit|echo http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex; exit|' < bin/danddreclist
18:48:13 <nooodl> `run sed -i 's|exit|echo http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex; exit|' bin/danddreclist
18:48:24 <HackEgo> danddreclist: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex
18:48:36 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur.
18:51:15 <metasepia> Your divination: "Dispersing" to "Enveloping"
18:51:25 <metasepia> CYUL 271800Z VRB02KT 12SM OVC025 24/20 A2989 RMK SC8 SLP123 DENSITY ALT 1200FT
18:51:58 <boily> according to my tools, I won't need any raincoat tonight.
18:55:48 <olsner> if you don't bring the raincoat it will rain
18:58:50 <zzo38> And even if you do bring, it might rain, but it might not.
19:05:23 -!- thedeco has left.
19:05:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:08:07 <boily> there is some BR starting at 10pm, with probabilities of FG at 2am, but no rain until at least 3pm tomorrow.
19:09:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:09:15 <metasepia> CYVR 271900Z 13012KT 20SM SCT030 OVC150 21/14 A2992 RMK CU4AC4 SLP130 DENSITY ALT 700FT
19:10:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
19:10:05 <olsner> what does BR stand for? is it a french abbreviation or something
19:10:39 <boily> olsner: there are a bunch of arbitrary French abbreviations in metars.
19:11:13 <boily> BR stands for «brume» (Swedish dimma).
19:12:18 <olsner> brume is not Swedish for dimma, 'dimma' is
19:13:17 -!- Koen_ has joined.
19:14:03 <olsner> From Old French, from Latin brūma (“winter”). Apparently.
19:18:04 <lambdabot> boily said 5h 24m 25s ago: Veien å gå med den sleipe curveball, du djevel.
19:18:52 <oerjan> boily: it's usually more idiomatic with "din djevel", also "den sleipe curveball" sounds like a hybrid with danish
19:19:16 <boily> not my problem. blame the google for that.
19:19:34 <oerjan> oh and "Veien å gå" does _not_ translate "Way to go".
19:20:42 <kmc> vendémiaire, brumaire, frimaire, nivôse, pluviôse, ventôse, germinal, floréal, prairial, messidor, thermidor, fructidor
19:21:12 <boily> m'a dire comme on dit, it's been a while.
19:21:20 <oerjan> i think those are the french revolutionary months
19:21:24 <boily> kmc: why the revolutionary feelings today?
19:21:41 <kmc> oh just "brume"
19:22:34 <boily> incidentally, germinal is one of the greatest French novels.
19:22:47 -!- itsy has joined.
19:22:49 <kmc> many novels have that feature
19:22:58 <kmc> what was the last novel you read where nobody dies?
19:23:06 <zzo38> And that doesn't make it good or bad
19:23:29 <zzo38> But there are some stories where nobody dies
19:24:07 <boily> kmc: eeeeeeh......... I'm sure I have one somewhere........
19:26:17 <itsy> I read "The Saxonbury Printout" a few weeks ago. No-one dies, but it's about a computer possessed by a ghost. Does that count?
19:29:31 <boily> what if the same character dies multiple times? does that cancel out death?
19:29:42 <kmc> no i think it counts
19:33:06 <zzo38> In the Dungeons&Dragons game, now it is recorded to make up like a story novel book, people die a lot, mainly because they get in everyone's way and do bad things a lot. I want to figure out exactly how common, so I will make a list, only including people killed directly or indirectly by player characters.
19:34:16 <zzo38> I can also list who isn't killed, just because I want to make up a list.
19:37:50 <Vorpal> zzo38, I have a friend who created his own role playing system. I will be playing that tomorrow evening
19:37:58 <zzo38> Vorpal: What system is that?
19:38:12 <Vorpal> zzo38, his own as I said
19:38:25 <zzo38> Do you know any details?
19:38:51 <Vorpal> zzo38, I have not studied it in detail yet, though I have a draft for the manual (in Swedish)
19:39:52 <Vorpal> Mostly studied the setting which he created (post-apocalyptic, after ice age of some unknown/mysterious origin, set in central Europe)
19:41:05 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
19:41:11 <oerjan> <Roujo> I should learn Haskell, I guess =P <-- yeah you won't fit in properly here otherwise.
19:41:53 <zzo38> Do you have any details about the setting, then?
19:41:56 <Vorpal> zzo38, from what I saw it was not D&D-style at all. Classless system for example. Not using hitpoints, but wound levels and such
19:42:54 <Vorpal> zzo38, I gave you some overview above, I need to sleep now and don't have time to translate it all
19:43:41 <oerjan> <Roujo> That sentence... hurts =P <-- i think it's inspired by Borat or something?
19:44:01 <kmc> zzo38: have any player characters been killed?
19:44:09 <boily> oerjan: wasn't it a zoolander reference?
19:44:27 <boily> zzo38: how many litres of blood splattered yet?
19:44:37 <oerjan> boily: what's zoolander?
19:44:45 <olsner> what was the sentence?
19:44:46 <zzo38> boily: I haven't measured that.
19:44:59 <kmc> "More than 1000 different errors detected. I'm not reporting any more. Final error counts will be inaccurate. Go fix your program!"
19:45:03 <boily> oerjan: a comedy with ben stiller. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoolander
19:45:33 <zzo38> But in some cases there is no blood splattered, for example if someone drowns or whatever.
19:45:57 <oerjan> boily: well i don't know if "learn you * for great good" showed up there.
19:46:00 <kmc> He seized power in a bloodless coup...all stranglings
19:46:29 <boily> boring. I like myself some sharks. they have standing. they have class. they have teeth.
19:46:45 <kmc> shark has personality
19:46:47 <kmc> personality goes a long way
19:46:54 <kmc> Vorpal: yep
19:47:02 <oerjan> oh well googling "for great good" gives mostly haskell hits, although maybe it's just google knowing what i read.
19:47:21 <zzo38> kmc: No player characters have been killed (yet).
19:47:29 <Vorpal> kmc, iirc I got that when I tried to run it on a program using python as an embedded scripting language
19:48:26 <kmc> 'night Vorpal
19:49:45 <zzo38> I play carefully so that I don't get killed unless it is really necessary.
19:50:13 <oerjan> <boily> that's our local version of china. Local China → L-Chine → Lachine. <-- huh it apparently _is_ named for china, although for ridiculous reasons
19:50:47 <boily> Vorpal: bonne nuit!
19:51:27 <boily> oerjan: and there I was pulling a neighbourhood out of my fungotial regions... tmyk...
19:51:28 <fungot> boily: banq. looke to that anon, embrace thy brother there, reioyce with him. and now lord protector, so it be wholesome food.
19:51:32 <oerjan> <olsner> what was the sentence? <-- well _i_ thought he was referring to "learn you a haskell for great good"
19:52:37 <boily> zzo38: I once found myself naked in the grass with an arm missing in a game of paranoia.
19:53:41 <olsner> hmm, "for great good" sounds like some kind of engrish
19:54:01 <zzo38> boily: Did you fix the arm?
19:54:44 <oerjan> i guess he got the arm fixed and then got terminated for failing to pay for the operation
19:55:08 <boily> something like that. I found out that the arm was deeply embedded in a wall...
19:55:38 <oerjan> your arm was a wall banger
19:55:51 <boily> .........................................oerjan...............
19:57:40 <Roujo> Where's pacman when you need him?
19:59:16 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
20:00:15 <zzo38> In this Dungeons&Dragons game we have to beat a demon and they moved to another castle and we found them again, but we can't beat them right away just like that, like how in chess you cannot play 1. Kxe8# on your first turn and win.
20:00:43 <boily> zzo38: do you have a shōgi analogue for that?
20:01:01 <zzo38> boily: It is obvious I suppose.
20:02:03 <zzo38> Do you know chess notation?
20:02:28 <zzo38> Kxe8# is probably possible but certainly not as the first move in the game!
20:03:20 <olsner> if it means you win, I assume it either captures the king or produces check mate?
20:03:27 <boily> I don't know chess notation, I only learned the shōgi one.
20:04:08 <oerjan> capturing the king is not allowed.
20:04:36 <olsner> oerjan: yeah, I just realized that, that's pretty weird really
20:04:48 <olsner> I always thought the objective of chess was to capture the king
20:05:02 <oerjan> or to be precise, if you're in a situation where it seems like you could, someone did an illegal move or lost already.
20:06:10 <oerjan> because if you have no move that doesn't leave your king in check, the game is over.
20:06:33 <zzo38> The # means checkmate.
20:07:12 <Roujo> The + means check, mate
20:08:23 <oerjan> olsner: my assumption is back in the day when chess was invented, the idea of killing monarchs was so heavily frowned upon that it was not considered civilized even in a game.
20:08:49 <oerjan> and so they ended the game one move earlier.
20:09:12 <Roujo> oerjan: Two moves, really
20:09:34 <boily> I'm not opposed to sampling a good monarch steak...
20:09:55 <olsner> in go they have some similar thing where it's considered rude to keep playing when it should be obvious who will win
20:10:53 <oerjan> boily: well google shows up several monarch steak houses, so you go ahead
20:11:04 <kmc> meth chess?
20:11:27 <boily> Roujo: today you go home by not bus?
20:11:37 <Roujo> boily: Yup. My not bus is parked outside
20:11:46 <olsner> (which annoys me greatly because the rules about who wins seem fuzzy as hell, even if you assume you actually finish the whole game)
20:12:19 <boily> olsner: players end the game when every territory is clearly defined, and surrounded by a single player.
20:12:37 <zzo38> Yes I agree that the end condition of go isn't clear enough.
20:13:06 <olsner> boily: now all you need is a clear definition of territory?
20:13:34 <boily> olsner: territory is clear. there's a single colour around it, with potential spots of dead stones from the other player.
20:13:44 <oerjan> olsner: well i think it's similar in chess, if it's obvious who will win then the loser should politely resign.
20:14:14 <zzo38> oerjan: But it isn't always as obvious as it seems to be.
20:14:55 <oerjan> true, but it's the loser's judgement.
20:15:12 <boily> it is obvious! don't make me invoke the moving pineapples!
20:17:02 <boily> gringmuth notation for transmitting chess moves over radio and telegraph.
20:17:59 <olsner> gringmuth moving pineapple notation?
20:19:52 <boily> `learn chess is a complex boardgame, where players exchange unclear royal steaks until they decide which of them has lost. The game is recorded through the Gringmuth Moving Pineapple Notation.
20:20:46 <oerjan> `run sed -i s/./C/ wisdom/chess
20:20:56 <HackEgo> Chess is a complex boardgame, where players exchange unclear royal steaks until they decide which of them has lost. The game is recorded through the Gringmuth Moving Pineapple Notation.
20:21:27 <oerjan> btw `learn will automatically lowercase the filename.
20:23:15 * oerjan suddenly wonders if bananas could mean pineapples in swahili
20:26:15 <boily> maNdizi. probably.
20:27:03 <oerjan> mananasi is pineapple but i'm not sure if google is right about the plural being the same
20:27:31 <boily> yeah. according to wikipedia, there are different prefixes (in fact, different noun classes) for plurals.
20:28:07 <oerjan> yes so since bantu itself starts with ba i thought that might be for plurals
20:28:40 <oerjan> swahili doesn't use that
20:28:47 <oerjan> must be some other bantu language
20:30:35 <oerjan> hm i don't think google translation's list has any other bantu languages
20:31:43 <Bike> swahili was a trade language, surely it's atypical
20:32:08 <boily> google translate's armenian is only eastern, which is very annoying.
20:35:01 <nooodl> i've played some games of a chess "variant" with a friend where you don't ever announce check/checkmate, and are free to capture the king at any time and win
20:35:28 <nooodl> we were probably not the first to come up with it though!
20:35:39 <olsner> http://africanlanguages.com/swahili/ gives me singular nanasi and plural mananasi
20:35:41 <Bike> inattentive chess
20:37:29 <boily> olsner: so mananasi is class 6, and ndizi is 9/10.
20:44:43 <oerjan> hm i guess that means it's unlikely to be in the class 1 that many languages start with ba-
20:45:15 -!- conehead_ has joined.
20:45:23 <oerjan> um class 2 is the plural
20:46:13 -!- conehead has quit (Disconnected by services).
20:46:19 -!- conehead_ has changed nick to conehead.
20:46:35 <HackEgo> myndzi keeps us all on our feet
20:46:49 <boily> what if a shark chomped your feet off?
20:46:52 <olsner> `learn Pineapple is a class 6 vegetable.
20:48:39 <Taneb> `learn Go is a programming language invented by Google, a game invented in East Asia, and a common verb in the English language, invented by Germanic tribes. Taneb invented all three.
20:49:04 <boily> oh, three new tanebventions!
20:49:56 <boily> chinese is weird. pineapple is written as 菠蘿, literally “spinach ivy”.
20:50:21 <oerjan> `learn Go is a common verbal programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in East Asia.
20:50:49 <Koen_> can you squeeze "strategic" or "territory" in there?
20:51:12 <oerjan> `learn Go is a common verbal programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in the stratetig territories of East Asia.
20:51:21 <oerjan> `learn Go is a common verbal programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in the stratetic territories of East Asia.
20:51:33 <boily> `learn Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, therefore making it a class 6 vegetable.
20:51:39 <Koen_> g is hard to spell isn't it
20:52:14 <Taneb> `learn Go is a common verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in the strategic territories of East Asia.
20:54:35 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/
20:55:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:55:20 <Koen_> so I was thinking, implementing a breadth-first search in a tree with a queue feels kinda like emulating a recursive function with a stack (except you're using a queue instead of a stack). are there other algorithm that feel like that?
20:55:50 <Taneb> `learn Tanebventions include D-modules, automatic squirrel feeders, and Go
20:55:58 -!- sebbu has joined.
20:57:30 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules and automatic squirrel feeders
20:57:59 <oerjan> `run mv wisdom/tanebvention{s,}
20:58:45 <Koen_> A doubly linked list has O(1) insertion and deletion at both ends, so is a natural choice for queues.
20:58:45 <Koen_> A regular singly linked list only has efficient insertion and deletion at one end. However, a small modification—keeping a pointer to the last node in addition to the first one—will enable it to implement an efficient queue.
20:58:51 <Koen_> that's from wikipedia
20:59:34 <Koen_> how does adding links to the previous element make insertion and deletion any more efficient??
20:59:37 <elliott> oerjan: `learn should take s into account, presumably
20:59:51 <Gracenotes> I was more thinking, how do you maintain a pointer to the last node
21:00:03 <oerjan> elliott: that seems to have a lot of false positive opportunities
21:00:10 <kmc> are there any languages which have something akin to recursion but which operates in a queue-ish fashion?
21:00:23 <Koen_> Gracenotes: kinda like you maintain a pointer to the first node
21:00:25 <boily> Gracenotes: downloading a bz2 of your repo ends in a corrupted archive.
21:00:37 <boily> s/Gracenotes/Gregor/
21:00:53 <Koen_> Gracenotes: also you could use a circular buffer - ie having the last element point to the first element - this way you only need one pointer, to the last element
21:01:03 <olsner> Gracenotes: by greasing and cleaning it regularly?
21:01:14 <Gracenotes> well, I see, the direction of the queue is opposite the direction of the pointers.
21:01:32 <Bike> http://whois.domaintools.com/twitter.com hackers gettin cute
21:01:50 <Koen_> that's because in order to "remove the first element" you need to get a pointer to the second element
21:02:03 <kmc> Gracenotes: ah
21:02:17 <kmc> i know about the thing that is like a PDA but with queues
21:02:18 <boily> Bike: where is the cuteness?
21:02:19 <kmc> is that what you mean
21:02:34 <Bike> that's the syrian electronic army
21:03:26 <Gracenotes> a queue automaton is Turing-complete and has a state machine that peeks and then potentially pops/pushes depending on state
21:03:29 <boily> Gregor: the zip download works. doing an ls on the wisdom folder is... uhm.. well... postmodern.
21:03:37 <kmc> 1355 Market Street, Twitterloin
21:03:45 <elliott> Bike: how come they're so good at it
21:03:59 <Gracenotes> the setup is pretty much the same as PDAs, yeah. It's Turing-complete even when it's deterministic, as well.
21:04:06 <Koen_> A queue machine or queue automaton is a finite state machine with the ability to store and retrieve data from an infinite-memory queue. It is a model of computation equivalent to a Turing machine, and therefore it can process any formal language.
21:04:09 <Bike> elliott: http://nytimes.com/ it is a mystery
21:04:15 <Koen_> we don't have that article on esolangs.org
21:04:23 <elliott> Bike: is that meant to be anything other than down?
21:04:30 <Bike> http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18yc7iz4dyj3ypng/ku-bigpic.png hacked by chinese, though
21:04:43 <elliott> it was just an error page for me
21:04:55 <Bike> yeah it's down for me too, the message was brief
21:05:02 <elliott> I dunno, they just seem kind of unreasonably competent
21:05:09 <boily> I think I know why the bz2 archive choked. who is the fungot of a fungot who made infinitely recursive folders in wisdom?
21:05:10 <fungot> boily: clo. what is loue, tis not heereafter, present mirth, hath present laughter: what's to do? shall we go? titania. i pray you
21:05:15 <elliott> for a group that hacks the onion's twitter and posts meme images about obama
21:05:38 <boily> «~/temp/hackbot-filesystem-0b2ecb62f0f9/wisdom/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d...»
21:05:43 <Bike> well they've splintered a few times
21:05:45 <elliott> One commentator notes that "[SEA] volunteers might include Syrian diaspora; some of their hacks have used colloquial English and reddit memes. After Washington Post reporter Max Fisher called their jokes unfunny, one hacker associated with the group told a Vice interview “haters gonna hate.”"[10][11]
21:06:22 <Bike> might explain why they're so friggin pro-assad
21:07:18 <oerjan> Koen_: seems related to tag systems (and thus BCT)
21:07:29 <Koen_> I made a clever password the other day I was sure I would remember it
21:07:34 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: according to evidence, you are the most likely perpetrator of that FS violation.
21:07:53 <elliott> Koen_: did you write it? no copying from wikipedia or such on esolang for licensing reasons
21:08:15 <Koen_> elliott: I was planning on copying from esolangs.org's push-down automata page
21:08:27 <Bike> "Syria chemical weapons use reports are pre-planned provocation - Russian Foreign Ministry" yeah sick of reading this already
21:08:31 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
21:08:34 <Koen_> and then adding {stub} at the bottom
21:08:41 <boily> `run ls -l wisdom/d
21:08:42 <HackEgo> total 4 \ drwxr-xr-x 3 5000 0 4096 Jun 20 19:19 d \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Jul 31 20:45 da
21:09:56 <Bike> what's going on exactly
21:10:35 <oerjan> `run cd wisdom/d; find
21:10:36 <HackEgo> . \ ./d \ ./d/d \ ./d/d/d \ ./d/d/d/d \ ./d/d/d/d/d \ ./d/d/d/d/d/d \ ./d/d/d/d/d/d/d \ ./d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d \ ./d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d \ ./d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d \ ./d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d \ ./d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d \ ./d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d \ ./d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d \ ./d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d \ ./d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d \ ./d/d/d
21:10:52 <boily> that thing is ODIOUS.
21:11:07 * boily smacks Phantom_Hoover with Bike
21:11:26 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: no idea, but you create corrupted unrecoverable bz2 archives.
21:12:05 <boily> can I be voiced? I want to oppress Phantom_Hoover.
21:12:30 <Koen_> oh, the bonus question in our exam was to recover a file from a corrupted archive
21:13:06 <boily> (now that I have a local wisdomcopy, time to latexify the whole thing...)
21:13:34 <Bike> so i gather this isn't a symlink loop somehow?
21:13:51 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v boily.
21:14:09 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 3 5000 0 4096 Jul 31 20:45 wisdom/d
21:14:13 <olsner> `run ls -ld wisdom/d/d
21:14:14 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 3 5000 0 4096 Jun 20 19:19 wisdom/d/d
21:14:23 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: FEEEEEEL THE OPPRESSION!
21:14:27 <Bike> how is that even possible
21:14:49 <Bike> i don't think you understand how oppression works!
21:15:10 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o HackEgo.
21:15:41 <Koen_> everybody take cover
21:15:55 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, automatic squirrel feeders, and Go
21:16:35 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:16:45 <boily> holy. fungot. of. doom. I promise to properly oppress only those who deserve it!
21:16:47 <fungot> boily: husband. god den, i thank you truly, la! ' nothing doubting' says he? alas, ha's banish'd me his bed already, his love too, who looses, yet ile preserve the honour of the forlorne french: him i forgiue my death, and death's dim look in life's mortality: each in her sleep themselves so beautify, as if that joy were now become a losse, cryes, oh, love's bow shoots buck and doe; the shaft confounds not that it wounds, but t
21:17:13 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: the First Evidence Against You: «ngevd is a fake wisdom entry. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼»
21:17:15 <olsner> `? d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d
21:17:17 <HackEgo> d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d nothing
21:18:10 <boily> circumstantial shmircumstantial.
21:18:48 <Bike> `run ls -ld wisdom/d/d/d
21:18:50 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 3 5000 0 4096 Jun 20 19:19 wisdom/d/d/d
21:19:22 <oerjan> boily: that was an entirely reasonable edit
21:19:34 <Phantom_Hoover> you should be able to pin down exactly who created this madness
21:19:38 <Bike> ok back up here
21:19:43 <Bike> how is that pronounced
21:19:50 <Bike> i think that's the real issue here.
21:20:01 <Bike> don't give me your swedish shit here
21:20:16 <Bike> oughta be "hig" imo
21:20:19 <Bike> or "mercurial"...
21:20:29 <boily> I ain't no sedish salmiak there. as a proud Canadian, I resent that remark.
21:20:34 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
21:20:38 <oerjan> `run ls -l d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d
21:20:40 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d: No such file or directory
21:20:55 <oerjan> `run ls -l wisdom/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d
21:20:57 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 72 Jun 20 19:22 wisdom/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d
21:21:08 <Koen_> why so many subdirectories
21:21:08 <oerjan> `run ls -l wisdom/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d
21:21:10 <HackEgo> total 4 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 72 Jun 20 19:22 d
21:21:19 <Koen_> please tell me you didn't try cp -R . .
21:21:34 <Bike> what! that's so boring.
21:21:39 <Phantom_Hoover> `cat wisdom/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d
21:21:41 <HackEgo> d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d nothing
21:22:21 <oerjan> well in that case, why does it corrupt the bz2 archive?
21:22:26 <boily> I have no reason left to oppress Phantom_Hoover... :(
21:22:51 <boily> oerjan: probably some boring reason. weird unicode stuff going on, I guess.
21:22:57 <Phantom_Hoover> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/5c29355f719e/wisdom/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d
21:23:40 <Phantom_Hoover> wait no it was http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/21a5f1578f31
21:24:36 <boily> oh. in that case, I'll have to oppress the least levenshteined person to guestbot.
21:24:38 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: oh that's just the bug where the repository browser lists the latest commit to the whole repository instead of to just that file.
21:25:00 <boily> Guest18414: FEEL THE WRATH OF OPPRESSION‼
21:26:08 <Koen_> elliott: on the recent events that I can't get my freaking password, i'll let someone else make the page
21:27:03 <elliott> oerjan: looks like guestbot did it in /msg to hackego...
21:27:15 <elliott> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2013-06-21#142222
21:27:23 <elliott> and then I scared it away or something >_>
21:30:11 <oerjan> let's just make Koen_'s password hunter2 and get it away with.
21:31:17 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v myndzi.
21:31:53 <ion> Earl Grey Flavored Black Tea. How do they know what Mr. Grey tasted like?
21:31:53 <Bike> problem solved.
21:32:07 <Bike> oh, you mean because of teh "<>" thing.
21:32:11 <olsner> ion: tested like tea, obviously
21:35:39 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone).
21:39:10 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:39:34 -!- Frooxius has joined.
21:41:52 <oerjan> elliott: um myndzi looks properly aligned to me. and he did fix some alignment issues the other day.
21:42:24 <elliott> oerjan: he was misaligned with HackEgo.
21:42:55 <oerjan> although he still isn't, so that's ok
21:43:17 <elliott> then you should /set show_nickmode_empty off :p
21:43:30 <Bike> "share my alignment issues"
21:44:24 <oerjan> what does that change and why would i want it.
21:44:47 <Bike> it makes "< elliott> into "<elliott>"
21:45:02 <Bike> you want it so that you can share with elliott your sadness at myndzi misalignment
21:45:03 <olsner> why does that have a setting?
21:45:21 <Koen_> please stop with the unmatched bracket
21:45:43 <oerjan> the mode is shown in its own column prior to the nicks
21:46:36 <oerjan> which looks really nice when there is no <
21:47:43 <Koen_> YOU CAN'T CLOSE A THREE WITHOUT OPENING AN EPSILON FIRST OKAY
21:48:30 <boily> oerjan: what makes you say so? I am not insane.
21:48:41 <oerjan> i am sorry you don't get the full tone of my responses because of the script stripping
21:51:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:52:03 -!- augur has joined.
21:52:27 <metasepia> braid definition: to make from braids.
21:52:36 <HackEgo> Braid theory is the theory of braids.
21:52:51 <HackEgo> Category theory is the theory of categories.
21:52:52 -!- oerjan has set topic: Hexham/Helsinki/Lachine axis | 22nd IOCCC: http://ioccc.org/2013/rules.txt | esolang survey! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OvEsdBioOFcXFAiscO34kctUWKs3dWQs5-ZouXdwy9Q | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric hth.
21:54:51 <oerjan> `learn Braid theory is the extremely twisted theory of braids.
21:55:21 <boily> oerjan: uhm. could you uh... not edit the wisdom DB for a while, please? I'm latexing it.
21:55:34 <oerjan> `run mv wisdom/braid{,' theory'}
21:55:45 <HackEgo> Braid theory is the extremely twisted theory of braids.
21:55:53 <boily> or, I guess the worse that could happen is that my version'll become somewhat like the hitchiker's guide and be authoratively incorrect on the subject.
21:56:13 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:56:34 <olsner> hmm, someone is handing out holey bibles and people are getting holes in their windows
21:56:41 <Roujo> HackEgo is op, please nerf
21:57:02 <boily> Roujo: behold the OP of the BOT.
21:57:21 <boily> okay, I have «a» and «b» covered.
21:58:17 <olsner> boily: you should make some kind of script for this so you can easily repeat your work when wisdom expands
21:59:39 <boily> I'd like to, but there are some entries that are unicodely creative, other that I have to hand edit because of my linter, and some that don't match their filename.
21:59:54 <boily> (btw, how did I get that nice linter bound with vim???)
22:02:02 <boily> also, some entries I nicely format, others I completely ignore cause I'm a lazy bitch, and stuff.
22:08:42 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
22:10:37 <oerjan> `addquote <fizzie> Possible business plan: data storage on the moon? <fizzie> Getting at it after the collapse of civilization here might be an issue. <boily> who cares about civilization? you have backups!
22:10:41 <HackEgo> 1095) <fizzie> Possible business plan: data storage on the moon? <fizzie> Getting at it after the collapse of civilization here might be an issue. <boily> who cares about civilization? you have backups!
22:11:08 <oerjan> i have blatantly censored half-relevant but unfunny parts by Vorpal here.
22:12:11 <oerjan> it's the fashionable thing
22:13:50 <boily> oerjan: I approve of you oppressiveness.
22:20:23 <boily> «c» and «d» are covered. I'm hungry.
22:20:29 -!- boily has quit (Quit: foude.).
22:20:36 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:22:16 <HackEgo> Categories are just a special case of bicategories.
22:27:49 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:34:24 <olsner> `run echo In category theory, category theory is a theory in the category of theories. > wisdom/category\ theory
22:34:34 <HackEgo> In category theory, category theory is a theory in the category of theories.
22:35:07 <Koen_> that's just not helpful at all
22:35:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: So no real change, then?).
22:48:14 <Bike> good news for sgeos: the thing i have to use for class uses tcl scripting
23:01:58 -!- augur has joined.
23:25:33 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
23:42:30 -!- conehead has joined.
23:42:47 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:43:02 -!- conehead has joined.
23:55:22 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_).