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05:44:58 <fizzie> Aw, no METARsepia present.
05:59:50 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
06:00:34 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
06:00:47 <shikhin__> Fiora: Isn't `list what you're looking for?
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06:01:05 <Fiora> slist is the homestuck list.
06:01:07 <shikhin> nortti told me that `slist changed into `list.
06:01:26 <Fiora> I don't know what list is, sorry ^^;
06:01:38 <HackEgo> ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia mnoqy monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Roujo Sgeo SgeoBot shikhin SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb
06:01:44 <Fiora> that doesn't look like the same thing
06:02:32 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ grep '^..:..:..: <[^>]*> `list' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/201[3-9]-??-??.txt | sed 's/^.*<//;s/>.*//;s/_*$//' | sort -u | tr '\n' ' '
06:03:16 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ Taneb \ atriq \ Ngevd \ Fiora \ nortti \ Sgeo \ ThatOtherPerson \ alot
06:06:42 <HackEgo> whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000
06:07:02 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
06:07:14 <Bike> wait, where's the crack about hacking again
06:07:15 <Bike> well whatever.
06:07:26 <Bike> `relcome shikhin
06:07:30 <HackEgo> shikhin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
06:07:36 <shikhin> Bike: I got the welcome, yesterday :-)
06:08:06 <Bike> a little collateral damage never hurt nobody important
06:09:41 <kmc> `run welcome shikhin | rainwords
06:09:44 <HackEgo> shikhin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
06:10:17 <kmc> much better innit
06:10:27 <HackEgo> kmc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
06:10:45 <HackEgo> bash: run: command not found
06:10:56 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.7.0-umlbox #1 Wed Feb 13 23:30:40 UTC 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux
06:11:15 <HackEgo> bash: ifconfig: command not found
06:11:23 <Bike> shikhin: it's gregor's pregorative
06:11:31 <Bike> i can't spell that word
06:12:31 <Bike> `run dmesg | tail
06:12:33 <HackEgo> loop: module loaded \ TCP: cubic registered \ NET: Registered protocol family 10 \ sit: IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling driver \ Initialized stdio console driver \ Console initialized on /dev/tty0 \ console [tty0] enabled \ Initializing software serial port version 1 \ console [mc-1] enabled \ ubda: unknown partition table
06:12:45 <kmc> `run dmesg | paste
06:12:51 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26859
06:13:12 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5680
06:13:46 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16508
06:13:48 <kmc> I ran http://codemonkey.org.uk/projects/trinity/ against UMLBox and pretty quickly found something that would hang the "VM", but nothing more interesting
06:14:08 <Bike> i think you can just do uh
06:14:11 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste
06:14:12 <Bike> something like that?
06:14:15 <kmc> UML is pretty dodgy and weird and obscure though, so there probably is some VM breakout exploit if you want to find it
06:15:33 <olsner> "User-Mode Linux is a safe, secure way of running [stuff]."
06:15:34 <Bike> shikhin: check out the wisdom pdf for all our stupid bullshit in pleasantly ignorable form
06:15:52 <shikhin> Bike: Yeah, it's on my read-me :-)
06:16:50 <Bike> you have a readme?
06:17:15 <olsner> looks like this page has all the wrong information... I don't want to *use* UML, I want to know how it works
06:17:30 <shikhin> Bike: Not readme, read-me. :P
06:17:45 <shikhin> "These are the articles that want to be read by me."
06:17:48 <Bike> sounds too complicated for me
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06:32:20 <olsner> apparently it works by running processes with ptrace to catch their system calls, and seems to actually run the "kernel" code inside those processes while temporarily disabling system call tracing
06:32:38 <olsner> (according to http://kernel.org/doc/ols/2001/uml.pdf)
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06:37:46 <fizzie> olsner: They have (had?) different modes; that's the TT ("Tracing Thread") one.
06:38:04 <fizzie> olsner: There's also the SKAS ("Separate Kernel Address Space") mode, which I think had two different versions.
06:38:58 <fizzie> The latter needs (needed?) some specific patches in the host kernel.
06:39:02 <fizzie> http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/old/skas.html -- might be kinda outdated.
06:39:40 <fizzie> "These patches are against 2.4.19 --" yes, very modern.
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06:41:10 <fizzie> Wikipedia claims that "A method of running a separate kernel address space (SKAS) that does not require host kernel patching has been implemented".
06:51:25 <fizzie> `run grep skas /proc/cpuinfo
06:54:18 <fizzie> I suppose even skas mode involves ptrace, but it only has a single UML userspace process and not one host process per guest process.
06:54:43 <nortti> shikhin: no, `slist used to be named `list
06:59:29 <nortti> @ask oerjan why '(' and why would using it make fungot process a less of a pain?
06:59:30 <fungot> nortti: anne. no, no, nor never make fair weather yet a while, and like me banished, then mightest thou teare thy hayre, and fall a cursing like a very drab. a scullion? fye vpon't: foh. about my stature: for at pentecost, when all that is mine
06:59:32 <olsner> https://lkml.org/lkml/2005/7/1/203 has some details on this "skas0" mode (skas without host kernel patches)
07:00:35 <olsner> that's more like what I expected in the first place instead of the "Tracing Thread" mode
07:03:15 <olsner> though it does still involve some code running inside each UML process, and ptrace
07:04:06 <fizzie> static int show_cpuinfo(struct seq_file *m, void *v) { [...] seq_printf(m, "mode\t\t: skas\n");
07:04:11 <fizzie> It also seems to be the only mode these days.
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10:56:25 <Deewiant> https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1309_14-17_mickens.pdf
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12:47:37 <oerjan> @tell nortti because then i can define the command in simple underload fitting in one irc line instead of generated brainfuck that needs to be fed in through several lines. (underload has very simple printing but cannot handle unmatched parentheses.)
12:49:22 <nortti> actually, for oonbotti3, I was already going to do that
12:49:53 <oerjan> wait are these 3 different bots, there's only so many bots we can fit you know.
12:50:24 <nortti> no, oonbotti3 will replace ob2, like ob2 replaced ob
12:51:42 <oerjan> also someone pointed out plain ( might not be a good idea, (+space might work better.
12:51:51 <oerjan> (because of people speaking like this.)
12:52:39 <oerjan> although that only matters if oonbotti? reacts to unknown commands.
12:54:22 <oerjan> @tell shikhin <shikhin> nortti told me that `slist changed into `list. <-- no it's the other way around, `slist used to be called just `list before the lists multiplied.
12:55:45 <oerjan> i think i somehow got confused about your spelling when checking.
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13:01:33 <oerjan> <Bike> wait, where's the crack about hacking again
13:01:44 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing.
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13:02:58 <HackEgo> rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on `/' \ rm: use --no-preserve-root to override this failsafe
13:04:24 <shikhin> `run rm -rf / --no-preserve-root
13:04:36 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
13:05:36 <nortti> oerjan: I already told him that
13:05:58 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/ext4/features/meta_bg_resize': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/ext4/features/batched_discard': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/ext4/features/lazy_itable_init': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/cgroup': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/bus/cpu/devices/cpu0': Permission
13:06:12 <shikhin> Wait, wasn't it running with root?
13:06:33 <oerjan> shikhin: that part of the message was meant ironically.
13:07:11 <oerjan> you're still welcome to try to break out of the sandbox, i think.
13:07:29 <oerjan> i don't think anyone has got very far.
13:08:05 <HackEgo> bash: shutdown: command not found
13:08:14 <HackEgo> bash: restart: command not found
13:08:21 <shikhin> Ok, that's as far as I can try.
13:08:25 <oerjan> very very few people manage to break things enough that we cannot just fix it with the `revert command.
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13:08:39 <shikhin> Perhaps very few are motivated enough?
13:08:49 <shikhin> Set up a $1000 price, I'm sure more will succeed.
13:09:02 <nortti> `run readlink -f wisdom/Ngevd
13:09:24 <Taneb> `run cat wisdom/Ngevd
13:09:25 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/Ngevd: No such file or directory
13:09:30 <Taneb> `run cat wisdom/ngevd
13:09:32 <HackEgo> ngevd is a fake wisdom entry. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼
13:09:57 <HackEgo> is a shorthand for?? ¯\(°_o)/¯
13:10:13 <Taneb> nortti, it used to work like that but it broke pastewisdom
13:10:24 <Phantom_Hoover> it used to be a symlink to /dev/urandom, but then people were dumb with it and it had to be special-cased
13:10:25 <oerjan> nortti: it _used_ to be an actual device file but that made it awkward to do things.
13:10:31 <HackEgo> ` \ `? \ _̰̆̓_̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_̯͙̬̬̦̯͂͋͒ͧ͋̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ? \ ?? \ @ \ ⊥ \ ⌨ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛
13:10:55 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/wisdom
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13:10:59 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/ls
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13:11:34 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^752129 ; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi
13:11:51 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: presumably the inode changed again.
13:11:59 <HackEgo> ` \ `? \ _̰̆̓_̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_̯͙̬̬̦̯͂͋͒ͧ͋̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ? \ ?? \ @ \ ⊥ \ ⌨ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛
13:12:44 <oerjan> `run /bin/ls -id wisdom
13:12:58 <Phantom_Hoover> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/b018e83c2886/wisdom
13:13:14 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/752129/969195/g' bin/ls
13:13:24 <HackEgo> As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead.
13:13:47 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip//bin/l
13:13:47 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/
13:13:49 <oerjan> it's not as necessary as it used to be, obviously.
13:13:49 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip//bin/ls
13:15:01 <nortti> why is there a .swp file in hackenv?
13:15:04 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: i doubt /bin/ls is a readable script. hm i guess the `paste file optimization doesn't deal well with files outside the repository.
13:15:22 <oerjan> nortti: someone ran vim maybe?
13:15:36 <oerjan> istr something like that.
13:15:46 <nortti> vim leaves _behind_ swap files?
13:16:01 <oerjan> nortti: when it errors out due to having no terminal, maybe?
13:16:48 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `*.swp': No such file or directory
13:16:51 <oerjan> nortti: that's sort of the point of having them in the first place, so you can restore after errors.
13:17:46 <nortti> it gets killed after a while
13:17:50 <oerjan> shikhin: files starting with . are excluded from expansions
13:17:52 <HackEgo> Vim: Warning: Output is not to a terminal \ [1;24r[?25h[?8c[?25h[?0c[27m[24m[0m[H[J[?25l[?1c[2;1H[1m[34m~ [3;1H~ [4;1H~
13:18:07 <shikhin> Took really long to figure that out, didn't it?
13:18:09 <oerjan> nortti: oh right it may just have been killed right.
13:18:17 <HackEgo> bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
13:18:29 <HackEgo> . \ .. \ bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ .hg \ .hg_archival.txt \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
13:18:44 <oerjan> hm seems no swap this time.
13:18:52 <HackEgo> no: ERROR: cannot open `no' (No such file or directory)
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13:21:49 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access .swp: No such file or directory
13:22:52 <HackEgo> ./ \ ../ \ bi \ bin/ \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints@ \ delvs* \ delvs-master/ \ dog \ etc/ \ factor/ \ .hg/ \ .hg_archival.txt \ ibin/ \ index.html \ interps/ \ lib/ \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ oerjan/ \ paste/ \ pref \ prefs \ quines/ \ quotes \ share/ \ src/ \ wisdom/ \ wisdom.pdf
13:22:57 <oerjan> nortti: i vaguely suspect there's a race condition between vim detecting no terminal and HackEgo timing out the process, so it only happens when HackEgo is strained? maybe.
13:23:13 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
13:23:33 <nortti> shows / for dirs, * for executables
13:23:58 <oerjan> `run diff oerjan/cat cat
13:24:15 <HackEgo> bash: delvs: command not found
13:25:05 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs
13:25:35 <nortti> bah, can't read x86 machine lang
13:25:50 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ndisasm: not found
13:26:46 <nortti> `run readelf -s delvs | paste
13:26:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10305
13:27:31 <oerjan> `ls delvs-master/samples
13:27:33 <HackEgo> hi.bf \ hi-bool.bf \ multiply.bf \ readfile.bf \ writefile.bf \ writetonull.bf
13:27:43 <oerjan> i think it may be a bf interpreter
13:27:54 <shikhin> `./delvs delvs-master/hi.bf
13:27:56 <HackEgo> File: "delvs-master/hi.bf" not found
13:28:01 <nortti> I was just going to say "it might be interpreter, it has symbol called lexer"
13:28:17 <shikhin> `./delvs delvs-master/samples/hi.bf
13:28:23 <shikhin> `./delvs delvs-master/samples/hi-bool.bf
13:28:33 <nortti> `paste delvs-master/samples/hi-bool.bf
13:28:34 <shikhin> `./delvs delvs-master/samples/multiple.bf
13:28:35 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs-master/samples/hi-bool.bf
13:28:35 <HackEgo> File: "delvs-master/samples/multiple.bf" not found
13:28:40 <shikhin> `./delvs delvs-master/samples/multiply.bf
13:29:04 <shikhin> `./delvs delvs-master/samples/multiply.bf 1 2
13:29:05 <HackEgo> File: "delvs-master/samples/multiply.bf 1 2" not found
13:29:13 <nortti> yhat doesn't seem much like brainfuck
13:29:24 <shikhin> `./delvs delvs-master/samples/writetonull.bf
13:29:46 <oerjan> presumably a derivative, then.
13:31:04 <nortti> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Delvs
13:31:06 <oerjan> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log?rev=delvs btw
13:31:14 <nortti> why did I not check this first
13:32:37 <nortti> `run tar txf master.tar.gz | paste
13:32:43 <HackEgo> tar: You may not specify more than one `-Acdtrux' or `--test-label' option \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information. \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13265
13:32:53 <nortti> `run tar tzf master.tar.gz | paste
13:32:58 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21268
13:33:17 <shikhin> `paste delvs-master/main.c
13:33:19 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs-master/main.c
13:33:51 <shikhin> `paste delvs-master/delvs.h.c
13:33:54 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs-master/delvs.h.c
13:34:02 <shikhin> `paste delvs-master/delvs.h
13:34:04 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs-master/delvs.h
13:34:16 <nortti> shikhin: ffs, use github
13:34:34 <nortti> shikhin: https://github.com/L8D/delvs
13:35:06 <oerjan> shikhin: you can also use the web interface at http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ directly.
13:35:46 <oerjan> note how pasting a file just gives you the link to it there, and doesn't actually create a paste.
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13:38:27 <HackEgo> bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
13:38:42 <oerjan> `run mv delvs-master share
13:38:46 <HackEgo> mv: cannot move `delvs-master' to `share/delvs-master': Directory not empty
13:39:04 <HackEgo> awesome \ cat \ construct_grams.pl \ delvs-master \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData
13:39:22 <oerjan> `diff delvs-master share/delvs-master
13:39:24 <HackEgo> diff: missing operand after `delvs-master share/delvs-master' \ diff: Try `diff --help' for more information.
13:39:36 <oerjan> `run diff delvs-master share/delvs-master
13:39:37 <HackEgo> Only in delvs-master: bf.c \ Only in delvs-master: bf.h \ Only in delvs-master: delvs \ Only in delvs-master: delvs.h \ Only in delvs-master: delvs.rb \ Only in delvs-master: .gitignore \ Only in delvs-master: main.c \ Only in delvs-master: Makefile \ Only in delvs-master: README.md \ Common subdirectories: delvs-master/samples and share/delvs-mast
13:40:03 <oerjan> `rm -R share/delvs-master
13:40:04 <HackEgo> rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information.
13:40:09 <oerjan> `run rm -R share/delvs-master
13:40:17 <oerjan> `run mv delvs-master share
13:40:21 <HackEgo> mv: cannot move `delvs-master' to `share/delvs-master': Directory not empty
13:40:36 <oerjan> `ls share/delvs-master
13:40:44 <oerjan> `ls share/delvs-master/samples
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13:41:04 <oerjan> `rmdir share/delvs-master/samples
13:41:11 <oerjan> `ls share/delvs-master/samples
13:41:12 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access share/delvs-master/samples: No such file or directory
13:41:24 <oerjan> `rmdir share/delvs-master
13:41:30 <oerjan> `run mv delvs-master share
13:41:34 <HackEgo> mv: cannot move `delvs-master' to `share/delvs-master': Directory not empty
13:41:44 <oerjan> WHAT THE H* IS GOING ON
13:41:57 <oerjan> `ls share/delvs-master
13:42:06 <oerjan> `ls share/delvs-master/samples
13:43:04 <oerjan> `ls share/delvs-master/samples
13:43:16 <boily> Jafet: what is an arisdottle?
13:43:27 <oerjan> `run mv share/delvs-master AAA
13:43:34 <HackEgo> awesome \ cat \ construct_grams.pl \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData
13:43:40 <HackEgo> awesome \ cat \ construct_grams.pl \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData
13:43:47 <oerjan> `run mv delvs-master share
13:43:52 <HackEgo> mv: cannot move `delvs-master' to `share/delvs-master': Directory not empty
13:43:53 <Jafet> Apparently it is perl for the :: operator.
13:44:10 <oerjan> ok there's something ridiculous here.
13:44:22 <boily> Jafet: like the infamous paamayim nekudotayim?
13:44:30 <oerjan> `ls share/delvs-master
13:44:35 <oerjan> `ls share/delvs-master/samples
13:45:08 <HackEgo> AAA \ bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
13:45:42 <Jafet> That is hebrew for we don't speak english motherfucker.
13:45:55 <HackEgo> rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information.
13:46:07 <HackEgo> bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
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13:46:27 <HackEgo> bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
13:46:40 <Taneb> I never realised this was a Daft Punk song
13:46:49 <Taneb> Even though there is pretty much no-one else it could be
13:47:10 <oerjan> `run rm -R share/delvs-master; mv delvs-master share
13:48:12 <oerjan> @tell gregor PLZ FIX REMOVAL OF EMPTY DIRECTORIES IN HACKEGO THX
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13:51:39 <HackEgo> bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
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13:52:11 <oerjan> `ls share/delvs-master/samples
13:52:13 <HackEgo> hi.bf \ hi-bool.bf \ multiply.bf \ readfile.bf \ writefile.bf \ writetonull.bf
13:52:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:52:37 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after `delvs bin' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
13:53:14 <boily> oerjan: who manages the script that unhthifies you?
13:53:24 <oerjan> boily: elliott made it.
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13:54:03 <boily> elliott: can you add thx to the unørjanable three-letter-acronyms?
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13:54:42 <oerjan> i use it _once_ and you want to remove it, sheesh
13:56:52 <boily> beuh... it only was for science. I'd have asked him to reput it back again afterwards...
13:57:44 <oerjan> you realize i have to manually install it, right?
14:04:59 <Taneb> Installing the diagrams library on an RPi takes a while
14:06:47 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, template haskell doesn't, and GHCi doesn't
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14:08:39 <oerjan> Taneb: happy hackage 2 day!
14:09:31 <Taneb> On another note entirely, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is out in the US but not the UK :(
14:11:31 <oerjan> Taneb: you don't happen to have S.H.I.E.L.D. comics do you? i have a long-standing wikipedia correction that i cannot do because no one ever answered me about whether they _really_ misspelled Isaac Newton in the comics.
14:11:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, don't worry, it'll be cancelled before it makes it here
14:12:09 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, by 8PM Friday?
14:12:13 <Taneb> oerjan, no I don't
14:12:25 <Taneb> I have precisely two Marvel comics
14:13:03 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, he brought a character back to life so maybe it will be uncancelled
14:13:41 <oerjan> ooh wait someone has answered!
14:14:10 <Phantom_Hoover> "New York Times' Brooks Barnes [...] added that "what goes over well at Comic-Con does not necessarily work in the real world,""
14:14:49 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, next you'll tell me I can't turn up to lectures in my Wonder Woman cosplay
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14:18:03 <Taneb> (so in a weird way you did not forget at all)
14:25:09 <oerjan> Taneb: not without uploading to youtube you can't!
14:25:43 <oerjan> wait is that a double negative or not. maybe triple.
14:26:59 <boily> oerjan: quadruple negative: “not”, “without”, “youtube” and “can't”.
14:36:53 <boily> you shouldn't never underestimate the negative absence of the negations that are not there.
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15:16:21 <boily> is that a stealth hello with my name?
15:17:33 <Jafet> boily boily boily, boily boily.
15:22:09 <fizzie> "Heily borld!" is a typical first program in a programming language.
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15:26:43 <asie> I'm having trouble picking a CPU architecture (or simple programming language implemented as a CPU) for a Minecraft computing mod
15:27:42 <asie> boily: i've always been fond of the 6502
15:27:47 <asie> but it feels boring, stale and just wrong in many aspects
15:27:54 <asie> the z80 is better but i've never really got into the z80
15:28:17 <boily> there's a first time to everything ☺
15:28:23 <asie> as in i tried it
15:28:28 <asie> but i didn't really like it
15:28:34 <asie> i was considering going custom but it's hard to make a fake CPU arch
15:29:03 <boily> motorola 68k? mips? some horrendous CISC architecture?
15:29:58 <boily> (not x86. it doesn't even count as an architecture. more like a chaotic borg cube that happens to be cube shaped, but entirely by accident.)
15:32:06 <Jafet> You should work out the minecraft laws of physics and design an architecture around it.
15:32:16 <asie> Jafet: the only rule is sand falls
15:32:32 <Jafet> How far can you miniaturize it? Will tunneling become a barrier?
15:34:26 <asie> Phantom_Hoover: it can't be too minimalist
15:34:33 <asie> because it can't run too slow in practice
15:34:37 <asie> so subleq/BF-level stuff is out
15:34:45 <asie> befunge could be interesting
15:35:41 <asie> or perhaps a minor iteration on ARMv2?
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15:37:41 <asie> redcode isn't a half-bad idea
15:38:07 <Jafet> Anything involving RAM is not going to work.
15:38:40 <asie> Jafet: It's amod
15:38:55 <asie> It's a mod, so I can implement anything I want
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15:39:56 <asie> Phantom_Hoover: tons of pistons
15:40:12 <asie> since a few MC versions ago, some blocks send a redstone signal through and some don't
15:40:25 <asie> that's your tape
15:40:40 <asie> do it in a magnetic way
15:40:47 <asie> always have both dirt and glass
15:40:51 <asie> and just swap their order
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15:41:26 <Phantom_Hoover> moving the tape was the problem, but now i'm wondering if you could use back-to-back piston shuttles at each end
15:41:28 <boily> can you mux signals on a redstone wire?
15:41:37 <asie> Phantom_Hoover: the max length is 16, i think
15:41:40 <asie> boily: with redlogic yes
15:41:53 <asie> Phantom_Hoover: so you can have a 63-length tape by making a 16x16 square
15:42:02 <asie> and just pushing it through on all 4 corners every time
15:42:15 <Phantom_Hoover> asie, for the purposes of the exercise i'm assuming it's infinite
15:42:32 <asie> Phantom_Hoover: an INFINITE piston tape, now...
15:43:04 <Phantom_Hoover> also: you could divide the tape into... 12-cell chunks, with pistons at each end
15:45:08 <Phantom_Hoover> well you know how if you have two sticky pistons with their faces pointed together they can be moved by extending them in turn
15:49:23 <Phantom_Hoover> the basic idea is to have 'carriages' of those, with wires at the side controlling their movement
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15:49:58 <Phantom_Hoover> and then you line a bunch of them up to get past the 16-block limit on pistons
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18:30:42 <boily> hm. I ordered a keyboard this morning. a few hours later, I get a reply from paypal and the site that my order's been cancelled and refunded.
18:30:58 <boily> apparently, I managed to order an out of production, out of stock keyboard.
18:33:36 <olsner> maybe you can get a used keyboard of the same kind?
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18:38:20 <boily> olsner: bah. I ordered the new generation, the one that the support guy positively asserted that is in stock and exists.
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19:34:32 <metasepia> Your divination: "Prospering" to "Obstruction"
19:34:49 <boily> obstruction indeed. been struggling with database integrity errors the whole day.
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19:39:14 <fizzie> I thought the whole point about a (relational) database is that you don't have to. :p
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19:40:15 <kmc> http://howfuckedismydatabase.com/
19:41:14 <boily> «You're probably okay.»
19:41:41 <kmc> so you aren't using MySQL then
19:42:04 <olsner> apparently my database is "Probably pretty fucked."
19:42:59 <fizzie> I like the error messages.
19:43:18 <fizzie> (My irclog database is probably okay.)
19:45:51 <boily> kmc: OpenERP only runs on Postgres. which is a strangely sane choice, considering the rest of the framework can make you become schizophreniac.
19:46:05 <kmc> erp erp erp erp erp
19:46:06 <olsner> boily: maybe it bundles MySQL for the other database
19:47:11 <boily> olsner: afaik, you are right.
19:47:46 <Fiora> http://howfuckedismydistro.com/gentoo/ I um pffffff
19:48:05 <Bike> i see only darkness
19:49:31 <Bike> needs -funroll-loops for speed
19:50:01 <boily> it's. I... I can't describe that. there is green text impacting my optical nerves. I feeel uneasy. I give you a hamburger.
19:50:24 <fizzie> I skipped to the end. :/
19:50:32 <boily> Fiora: are you on gentoo?
19:50:38 <Bike> "Okay, you're just fucked."
19:53:15 <Phantom_Hoover> oh i think i 'get' it in the sense that i see the joke too late to find it funny
19:54:06 <Gregor> I'm not sure what I'm supposed to make of this site.
19:54:09 <Gregor> It might be a joke of some kind.
19:54:14 <Gregor> Alternately, it might not.
19:54:29 <Gregor> oerjan said 6h 6m 6s ago: PLZ FIX REMOVAL OF EMPTY DIRECTORIES IN HACKEGO THX // No.
19:54:45 <Bike> In this handy, compact guide, you’ll explore a ton of powerful Ubuntu Linux commands while you learn to use Ubuntu Linux as the experts do: from the command line. Try out more than 1,000 commands to find and get software, monitor system health and security, and access network resources. Then, apply the skills you learn from this book to use and administer desktops and servers running Ubuntu, Debian, and KNOPPIX or any other Linux distribution.
19:55:48 <Bike> there's no arch page ;_;
19:56:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, it benefits from seeing the rest of the site first
19:56:10 <Bike> it's only ubuntu, debian, gentoo, and redhat, it seems
19:56:11 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, I poked around a bit.
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20:00:58 <boily> nooooobyd, the Evil Cousin with a Goatee of Nooodl?
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20:07:58 <boily> elliott: stop bullying people, even if you are bringing them on the Bright Path of the Best Distro doing so.
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20:22:22 <boily> for completely unknown and mysterious reasons, wikipedians saw fit to put the pronounciation for the local variations on “that's greek to me” → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_to_me
20:26:01 <Bike> interesting use of "pronunciation" there boily
20:26:53 <Bike> oh, i thought they meant the different phrases
20:27:50 <Bike> i like fish-egg language
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20:28:45 <kmc> did somebody put together the graph of the languages here
20:29:58 <boily> http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/graph2.png ← someone did.
20:30:06 <Bike> I'd feel bad about conflating "Chinese" and Mandarin, or "Greek" and- well, great.
20:30:07 <boily> (well. for the mainest languages)
20:30:08 <kmc> <3 languagelog forever
20:31:02 <fizzie> Which graph is that graph?
20:31:22 <Bike> the graph of languages using one another as idiomatically incomprehensible
20:31:40 <Bike> kind of wondering about aramaic, i didn't know it was common enough for people to think about
20:31:50 <Bike> like, within the last two thousand years, i mean
20:31:55 <boily> there doesn't seem to be much progress lately on xkcd's beanish :(
20:32:06 <kmc> i blame the bible
20:32:08 <kmc> for aramaic I mean
20:32:13 <fizzie> Also also: non-planar representations of planar graphs are nasty.
20:32:13 <boily> Bike: everybody speaks aramaic. fsvo speaks.
20:32:17 <kmc> I don't know what xkcd whatever is and I'm not sure if I can blame the bible or not
20:32:20 <Bike> for some, non-speaks value of speaks
20:32:45 <nooodl> romanian -> turkish -> french -> hebrew -> chinese -> heavenly script
20:33:05 <Phantom_Hoover> i thought it was... idk, some kind of language fascist thing
20:33:12 <Bike> i have a chinese novel that has some heavenly script in it. unfortunately the novel is too hard for me to read
20:33:15 <Bike> thought what was?
20:33:33 <olsner> hmm, Hindi is missing a link... is it Chinese? is it Heavenly script? is it Greek?
20:33:44 <Bike> maybe sanskrit?
20:34:01 <Bike> that would be reasonably closely analogous to greek, at least
20:34:02 <olsner> also somewhat disappointed about the lack of loops
20:34:41 <Bike> india has like a billion languages and all though, maybe they ust pick the language of a random province
20:34:49 <Bike> it's all kannada to me
20:35:07 <Bike> it's all sindhalese to me
20:37:17 <Bike> boily: it's spoken in karnataka. having the languages and provinces have the same names or even geographical areas would be way too simple.
20:37:33 <Bike> oh, that's where mysore was, neat
20:37:58 <olsner> maybe they could just use "indian" as the gibberish language
20:38:09 <olsner> there should be at least slightly fewer than a billion indian languages anyone doesn't speak
20:38:10 <kmc> nobody uses 'english' do they :/
20:38:44 <Bike> i dunno olsner, where i live analogous terms like "American" "Mexican" or "Canadian" are only used to imply that you're an idiot
20:40:00 <fizzie> Nobody uses Finnish either, even though (for some strange reason) it's often used as a prototypical hard-to-learn language.
20:40:15 <Bike> in my imaginary world it's because people notice it's not IE.
20:41:26 <boily> fizzie: probably because Hungarian holds the spotlight when people think about difficult to learn finno-ugric languages.
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20:42:25 <boily> that reminds me I still have to learn Estonian.
20:42:36 <HackEgo> bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ mind \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
20:42:40 <olsner> I believe one of the words for gibberish in swedish is cognate with 'welsh'
20:42:49 <fizzie> boily: But nobody's using Hungarian either.
20:43:24 <Bike> boily: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDEI06J00nk hth.
20:43:34 <oerjan> Gregor: did you _see_ the mess i had earlier today trying to move a directory from top level to share/ ?
20:43:46 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: canary: not found
20:44:08 <HackEgo> bin`: POSIX shell script text executable
20:44:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bin`: not found
20:44:56 <oerjan> Gregor: but WHY (is it happening in the first place :( )
20:45:46 <Gregor> Because Mercurial doesn't support adding empty directories to the repository.
20:45:54 <boily> Bike: what is that mysteriõus thing...
20:46:10 <oerjan> Gregor: i'm not talking about adding them, but removing.
20:46:37 <Gregor> oerjan: All of the transactional file behavior is based on hg changes.
20:46:47 <Gregor> Since it doesn't recognize the removal of a directory as a change, it doesn't know that anything has been done.
20:47:41 <boily> Bike: his eyes. they disturb me.
20:48:30 <oerjan> Gregor: when HackEgo runs a command, does it get an entirely new copy of the file structure to run in?
20:48:44 <HackEgo> Monoids are just categories with a single object.
20:49:14 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/
20:50:16 <oerjan> Gregor: it was completely ridiculous btw, i removed the directory and ls in a later command shows it as not being there; but when i try to move the new version into there it breaks down claiming the spot's already occupied.
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20:50:59 <oerjan> Gregor: the only thing that worked was removing the old directory and moving to it in the same command.
20:51:52 <Gregor> I know it's confusing, but it's not easy to fix and not a common enough problem for me to care.
20:55:22 <oerjan> argh my back starts acting up as soon as i sit down with the laptop :(
20:55:56 <oerjan> been that way since monday morning or so.
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20:56:28 <olsner> pretty much any way of sitting with a laptop is bad for the back
20:57:00 <Bike> Gregor: are codu pretty logs still broked?
20:57:19 <Bike> boily: it's an estonian cartoon, obviously. one i like.
20:57:31 <Bike> apparently this aired on tv for children to watch at least once!
20:58:08 <boily> I sent it to a coworker. he likes it.
20:58:16 <Bike> damn straight he does.
20:59:16 <Bike> (real) soviet cartoons are way better than worker and parasite.
20:59:27 <Bike> they do look about as freaky at times, tho.
21:02:10 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: I prefer cow orkers, but only in fiction.
21:05:09 <olsner> cow orker is one of my favorite puns
21:07:13 <Vorpal> Huh that was strange, doing ls on the NFS mount was out of sync compared to doing ls on the ssh session. This lasted for about half a minute until the NFS mount caught up as it were.
21:07:29 <Vorpal> I didn't even know NFS could return a stale state, I thought it would block
21:08:07 <kmc> NFS ate my balls
21:09:00 <boily> `? things NFS can do
21:09:02 <HackEgo> things NFS can do? ¯\(°_o)/¯
21:10:43 <oerjan> boily: Phantom_Hoover got myndzi to ignore HackEgo.
21:11:01 <oerjan> he got fed up with precisely that figure.
21:11:52 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: well i recall _someone_ did, and you're the kind of person who might.
21:14:21 <kmc> if Foo is a struct do you think one should be able to assign to fields of Foo through pattern matching,. i.e. (foo.x, foo.y) = f();
21:15:14 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/KdCj <- NFS can.
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21:15:40 <boily> kmc: Foo <$> f, but I have this feeling you're talking about Rust.
21:16:12 <boily> “nfs can do virtually everything. but it isn't specified”
21:16:18 <Bike> that's not really assignment...
21:16:43 <oerjan> boily: i don't think Foo <$> f works if f returns a pair.
21:17:12 <Bike> fizzie has been an adbot this entire time
21:17:13 <boily> oerjan: there are some fuzzy-tuple-y details that my tired brain can't figure out at the moment.
21:17:28 <oerjan> boily: try eating some curry
21:17:37 <Bike> "nfs can do virtually everything. but it isn't specified" this is good.
21:17:41 <boily> oerjan: only on Tuesday nights, after the movies.
21:17:51 <boily> fizzie: other people talk about salmiakki?
21:18:06 <Bike> kmc: is there an argument against doing it?
21:18:19 <kmc> I'm talking about Rust and other related languages
21:18:35 <kmc> anything with structures with named fields, assignment, and destructuring / pattern-matching
21:18:45 <kmc> I mean Python allows this, but it doesn't really have a distinction between assignment and declaration
21:19:57 <ais523> does anyone happen to know offhand if the following is possible on Windows: create a DLL that has undefined symbols that are linked in from the process that includes it?
21:19:58 <fizzie> boily: <[REDACTED Finnish person on a different channel]> btw, i can bring you mämmi and salmiakki from finland.
21:20:20 <olsner> hmm, mämmi, we get that in shops here sometimes... what the heck is it?
21:20:22 <ais523> this works just fine on Linux
21:20:31 <ais523> but I'm not sure how to do it on Windows, or even if it's possible
21:20:42 <ais523> (context: porting a program which does this from Linux to Windows)
21:20:44 <boily> AAAAURGH! for the one legitimate use of ~duck, I get no infos.
21:21:08 <Bike> like, the dll uses the symbols, which are resolved at link time by the program...?
21:21:31 <ais523> Bike: yeah, basically program X includes DLL Y; X has a global variable, Y can read from and write to that variable
21:21:49 <olsner> not sure if the linker can do it automatically, but I'm pretty sure a DLL can get the handle of the process that linked it and resolve symbols manually that way
21:22:10 <ais523> olsner: well on Linux it just works, even without attributes or special compiler options
21:22:29 <ais523> on mingw it doesn't, the linker complains about unresolved symbols when building the DLL
21:22:32 <metasepia> Mmmi is a traditional Finnish Easter dessert.
21:22:37 <oerjan> Oi mämmi, Suomi, synnyinmaa
21:22:56 <fizzie> oerjan: You made a laugh appear.
21:23:09 <ais523> and none of the options that should tell it to just go with it seem to have any effect
21:23:39 <Bike> "Anyone who has watched cuttlefish will know that if there was ever an animal that wears its heart on its sleeve, it is Sepia." :3
21:25:11 <ais523> meanwhile, aimake currently crashes mingw ld
21:25:26 <ais523> you just get the dialog box popping up telling you that ld crashed
21:25:43 <olsner> it crashes after finishing the output file?
21:25:54 <ais523> olsner: well I'm running under -t to try to locate the system libraries
21:26:18 <ais523> however, the system libraries are static libraries, thus they won't normally be mentioned unless at least one symbol in them is referenced
21:26:29 <ais523> so my solution was to use --whole-archive to tell it to just link the whole thing
21:26:32 <boily> Bike, kmc: I'm watching you. any attempt at eating my bot will result to your extradition to Canada. in winter.
21:27:18 <Bike> why does metasepia even have a shirt
21:28:07 <ais523> anyway, my DLL reverse export problem has quite a lot of freedom
21:28:17 <oerjan> the Great Preposition Shift
21:28:37 <ais523> I'm allowed (allowing myself) to assume mingw gcc, mingw ld, and can put arbitrary attributes on the variables in question, at both the importing and exporting sites
21:29:12 <olsner> is the variable dllimport:ed when building Y?
21:29:28 <ais523> atm I'm putting a dllimport on it
21:29:37 <ais523> because it seems unlikely to work if I don't
21:29:39 <ais523> however, it doesn't work anyway
21:29:51 <ais523> (it just changes whether the linker contains about a missing "variable" or "__imp_variable")
21:30:12 <olsner> hmm, yes, that would need to work for it to work with that alone
21:30:13 <oerjan> ais523: so is this also a step to making nethack4 work on windows
21:30:18 <ais523> oerjan: yes, how did you guess?
21:30:35 <fizzie> ais523: Have you tried making a "fake" DLL that defines all those symbols, then an import library for that, and then use that when linking the DLL? (Disclaimer: probably won't work.)
21:30:39 <ais523> actually I could just statically link everything, but I'm trying to keep the nitrohack code as originally intended
21:30:50 <oerjan> ais523: i've been stalking you on reddit.
21:30:59 <ais523> fizzie: if you're going to that much effort you could just put the variable in a DLL of its own, and import it in both places
21:31:18 <olsner> I've always wondered what the import libraries are for on windows, maybe you need one of those for the executable's exports and link it into the dll
21:31:22 <ais523> which is something I'm considering for if it's impossible to do it the intended ways
21:31:41 <fizzie> ais523: Oh, I sort of assumed you can't change the program.
21:31:46 <ais523> olsner: that would require each of the executable and DLL to be built before the other
21:31:53 <ais523> fizzie: well I'm trying to get aimake to do this automatically
21:32:00 <ais523> it can't change the program in anything other than very simple, mechanical ways
21:32:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
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21:32:50 <ais523> like, nothing requiring strong AI, please
21:32:55 <ais523> Snowflake was bad enough ;)
21:33:30 <olsner> perhaps the problem is that --no-undefined is default on windows and you need to disable it
21:33:58 <ais523> olsner: I was wondering about that
21:34:08 <ais523> the problem is that it doesn't seem to have an opposite
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21:34:14 <ais523> I haven't tried --no-no-undefined yet, I guess
21:34:20 <ais523> (--undefined means something entirely different)
21:39:52 <oerjan> http://www.sourceware.org/autobook/autobook/autobook_88.html "Unfortunately, there are some architectures (notably AIX and Windows) which require that all symbols are resolved when the library is linked."
21:40:34 <fizzie> ais523: MSVC has a "delayed loading" feature which essentially makes the linker include LoadLibrary/GetProcAddress code to do the linking at first call/use. Something along those lines might work, but I don't think MinGW includes a similar feature.
21:40:35 <Taneb> My plan to run diagrams on an RPi has hit a flaw
21:40:53 <ais523> now, I guess my big moral question is, should I remove the (already-working) reverse import feature on Linux, on the basis that it makes programs less portable?
21:42:14 <Taneb> oerjan, no, I got past that
21:42:22 <Taneb> It's gtk taking aaaages to compile
21:43:30 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, Haskell library for drawing pretty pictures
21:43:51 <kmc> it's pretty great
21:43:52 <fizzie> Huh, mingw-w64 in fact does support delay-loaded libs. But it does not seem immediately useful for your use case, it's just a dlltool option that can make an import library that does the delay-loading.
21:45:06 <myname> wait, you can make diagrams in haskell?
21:45:17 <fizzie> "-add-indirect: Specifies that when dlltool is creating the exports file it should add a section which allows the exported functions to be referenced without using the import library. Whatever the hell that means!" (dlltool manual)
21:45:23 <kmc> http://projects.haskell.org/diagrams/gallery.html
21:46:31 <Taneb> I think I'll just leave it running overnight
21:47:13 <ais523> fizzie: mingw can link to DLLs directly without going through the import library
21:47:18 <fizzie> Taneb: You could cross-compile your things on a Real Computer. (And AIUI you can get a Real Computer with a nickel.)
21:47:37 <Taneb> fizzie, but that takes eeeeffooort
21:47:40 <ais523> presumably, on the basis that it's possible to mechanically create an import library from a DLL, so the linker may as well do that itself
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21:50:47 <ais523> bleh, why don't domain names tab-complete
21:51:05 <fizzie> ais523: Anyhow, you can (at least in theory) make an import library for the executable before linking it, by constructing a .def file containing the exported symbols and then processing that with dlltool. Then you might attempt to link the DLL against that, and the executable against the DLL.
21:51:28 <ais523> I doubt it would work due to loading order
21:51:30 <fizzie> I wouldn't rank the chances of that working terribly high, but you never know.
21:52:35 <ais523> hmm, someone's been trying to access pages like /admin.php on my server
21:52:38 <ais523> I don't even have PHP installed!
21:52:56 <ais523> I guess this is what drive-by attacks against webservers look like
21:53:03 <oerjan> <-- "beanish" is what xkcd forumers call the invented language in xkcd's "time" story.
21:53:24 <oerjan> ais523: no, just forgot to include kmc's quote :P
21:53:58 <kmc> ais523: yeah if you run a webserver on a public IP you will get loads of that kind of thing
21:54:09 <kmc> if you run a SSH server on a public IP you will get a lot of password guessing attempts
21:54:18 <kmc> imo don't put a SSH server on the public internet if it accepts passowrds at all
21:55:18 <ais523> kmc: I have fail2ban installed
21:55:33 <ais523> also a username that's unlikely to be guessed without human interaction, and a non-dictionary password
21:55:55 <ais523> those drive-by ssh attacks don't catch anyone even slightly competent, they just spam the logs
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21:59:22 <fizzie> ais523: Heh. The procedure I described is able to generate an executable. Sadly, I don't have a Wine installation or a Windows VM or a running Windows box handy at the moment, so I don't know what it'd say when trying to run that file.
22:00:36 <ais523> but I'll try it some time just to see what happens
22:00:40 <ais523> assuming I even have dlltool installed
22:00:44 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> I am at kannada. <-- ಠ_ಠ
22:01:05 <fizzie> ais523: http://sprunge.us/JNPg is what I did, for the record.
22:02:07 <ais523> I'm not surprised it links; I'd think it has a very high chance of linking
22:02:15 <ais523> you told the DLL that it'd be getting the variable from another DLL, so it linked
22:02:19 <fizzie> Hmm. " : No such file or directory", is what Wine at work says.
22:02:25 <ais523> and you told the executable that it'd be linking to the DLL, so it's fine too
22:03:33 <fizzie> Though it seems to say that for everything, perhaps a non-worky Wine install.
22:04:06 <fizzie> Oh, an old broken ~/.wine symlink.
22:04:08 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:04:47 -!- conehead has quit (Max SendQ exceeded).
22:04:51 <oerjan> `run unicode 'KANNADA LETTER TTHA'; unicode 'LOW LINE'; unicode 'KANNADA LETTER TTHA'
22:05:11 <fizzie> [htkallas@pc112 ~/tmp/ww]$ wine ./app.exe
22:05:11 <fizzie> [htkallas@pc112 ~/tmp/ww]$ echo $?
22:05:30 <HackEgo> 603) <ais523> Just about all females often feel that exactly why all Hollywood stars common maintain its brightness as Tom in spite of frantic operate routine and large operate pressure from the skin. What do you think that they have got sufficient time to observe all attractiveness strategies and tips that his grandmother utilized to abide by? \ 7
22:05:38 <fizzie> (Disclaimer: not tested on an actual Windows system.)
22:05:41 <ais523> oerjan: it was a spambot
22:05:41 <HackEgo> 1018) <Bike> ◊_______________________◊ <elliott> help. <Phantom_Hoover> jesus christ elliott <Phantom_Hoover> apply pressure evenly when jamming eyes open
22:05:45 <kmc> I love that apps in Wine can make native Linux syscalls too
22:05:50 <ais523> that I quoted in-channel
22:06:09 <ais523> oerjan: I thought it was particularly amusing spam
22:06:11 <kmc> it makes me want to write Linux malware that masquerades as a Windows game
22:06:13 <ais523> so I pasted it in the channel
22:06:27 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: why shouldn't I love inevitable things
22:06:30 <ais523> kmc: neat, you could make it Windows malware too
22:06:48 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: it's not what you'd expect if you (wrongly) believed wine is a full "emulator"
22:07:09 <ais523> elliott: Hourglass has similar issues, of spilling out to the surrounding system
22:07:20 <ais523> Web of Lies attempts to deal with the issue via sandboxing as well as syscall translation
22:07:28 <Fiora> I wonder if JITs in any actual emulators have vulnerabilities/code execution issues
22:07:28 <Phantom_Hoover> i admittedly only 'got' it when hanging around with microcosm
22:07:41 <ais523> think web of lies but for Windows, even less reliable, but less insane
22:07:47 <ais523> it's not mine, nitsuja wrote it
22:08:03 <ais523> Fiora: I doubt it's impossible
22:08:08 <mnoqy> that';s the thing used in the windows game TASes right
22:08:18 <kmc> I spent some time looking for bugs in dosbox
22:08:19 <ais523> as in, it's probably happened somewhere
22:08:24 <kmc> it's easy to make it deref a null pointer and crash
22:08:28 <fizzie> ais523: Incidentally, the concept of using a .DEF file to handle circular dependencies within DLLs is documented in MSDN: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/kkt2hd12%28v=VS.90%29.aspx
22:08:28 <Phantom_Hoover> so like you can change the syscalls in the kernel, right?
22:08:29 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/unicode
22:08:47 <fizzie> ais523: I suppose the case of the program and DLL is not very far from two DLLs depending on each other, really.
22:08:55 <fizzie> (So maybe it'd work outside Wine too.)
22:09:18 <oerjan> `run unicode 'KANNADA LETTER TTHA' 'LOW LINE' 'KANNADA LETTER TTHA'
22:09:30 <ais523> fizzie: it even mentions it works for an executable an library that depend on each other
22:09:35 <ais523> so I guess this is what I will have to make aimake do
22:09:43 <fizzie> ais523: Oh, I didn't read it all that closely.
22:10:02 <oerjan> darn i should have @told boily that instead.
22:10:13 <mnoqy> `run unicode 'SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW'
22:11:39 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
22:11:43 <kmc> kannada oh kannada i never was your son
22:12:22 <kmc> `run unicode
22:13:29 <kmc> `run unicode 'LATIN SMALL LETTER F' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER U' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER N' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER G' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER U' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER T'
22:13:38 <kmc> `run unicode 'LATIN SMALL LETTER F' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER U' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER N' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER G' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER O' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER T'
22:13:47 <kmc> but fungot ignores HackEgo doesn't it...
22:13:47 <fungot> kmc: pro. but loue first learned in a ladies lappe, and decke the temples of mars, whose spirit in you fnord the bringer out of the bloody fingers of thy foes.
22:13:56 <mnoqy> `run unicode rm -rf /
22:13:58 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'rm'"
22:14:04 <kmc> mnoqy: nice 1
22:14:25 <coppro> `run unicode 'PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL RIGHT WHITE LENTICULAR BRAKCET'
22:14:40 <oerjan> kmc: more importantly, HackEgo adds the initial zero-width space.
22:14:57 <coppro> `run unicode 'PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL LEFT WHITE LENTICULAR BRACKET'
22:15:03 <coppro> those are backwards :/
22:15:08 <oerjan> oh hm i guess that wouldn't affect babbling.
22:16:17 <oerjan> coppro: i dunno they look identical to me
22:18:35 <myname> interesting, these brackets seem to make irssi glitch
22:20:03 <oerjan> i didn't notice any glitch. although sometimes i see fanciful unicode take a while to appear, but i guess that's on the font lookup end of putty?
22:20:37 <myname> 00:164:50<scoppro 4hmm what
22:21:06 <oerjan> ok, i didn't see that, also my own message got in between.
22:21:52 <oerjan> hm i guess tmux would neutralize ^L ...
22:22:08 <myname> yeah, ^L fixes that, but it reappears if i change windows
22:22:24 <fizzie> There's always /clear.
22:22:26 <oerjan> oh well everything i s bugy
22:22:30 <coppro> oerjan: the right one is concave down on my irssi
22:23:07 <coppro> but it's supposed to be concave up
22:23:13 <coppro> and the opposite is true for the left
22:23:19 * coppro tries to figure what font that is
22:23:23 * oerjan checks logs with browser, oh so that is how it's supposed to look.
22:24:02 <oerjan> i just see a narrow rectangle in irssi/putty.
22:24:15 <coppro> myname: the right brakcet is concave up?
22:24:35 <oerjan> which is identical for the two, but not the same as the usual "unknown character".
22:32:56 <kmc> `unicode REPLACEMENT CHARACTER
22:33:38 <kmc> https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-September/005678.html ASCII control characters STX and ETX make great string literal delimeters for a programming language, right?
22:36:51 <ais523> well, at least it's not an argument about comment syntax
22:36:59 <kmc> yeah it's about string literal syntax
22:37:06 <ais523> I know, reading it now
22:37:15 <kmc> the two are weirdly related though
22:37:37 <ais523> fun fact: a bug in the NHGPL made me have to change the text tile format parser, just so I could add comments to the files specifying that I'd changed them
22:37:49 <kmc> traditionally comments and strings are the two constructs which let you suspend the normal lexical rules of the language for an arbitrary span of characters
22:37:54 <kmc> and they interact in weird ways
22:37:56 <ais523> actually the NHGPL doesn't really make much sense in the context of DVCSes
22:38:49 <ais523> anyway, I'm pretty sure that the NetHack devteam aren't following it to the letter
22:39:23 <ais523> so I'm just trying to follow it as best I can, and if they sue me over it, I'll claim I was following it more precisely than they were, and the way they were acting gave me the impression that they considered that interpretation of the NHGPL acceptable
22:40:48 <oerjan> is the bug that change notices have to be in the same file?
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22:43:15 <kmc> think i might be the only person left on earth who ever has a browser window that isn't full screen
22:43:20 <kmc> judging by trends in web design
22:43:24 <ais523> kmc: I do sometimes, but I normally fullscreen it
22:43:57 <Koen__> oerjan: I remember I asked you that once before, but is 3-cell brainfuck still turing-complete if we replace > and < with naming the cells?
22:43:58 <oerjan> kmc: no me too, because i like to be able to see if there's irc activity behind it
22:44:15 <Koen__> (so basically, forbid unmatched > and < in the brainfuck program)
22:44:40 <oerjan> Koen__: yes, the collatz function reduction doesn't use unmatched <>s
22:45:30 <Bike> i don't even have windows that aren't full screen `-`
22:46:06 <ais523> Bike: I tend to be quite consistent about which windows I fullscreen, and which I leave floating
22:46:29 <ais523> normally floating windows are things I use to amuse myself during long compiles, or else are always-on-topped things I want to keep an eye on
22:46:33 <oerjan> Koen__: i tried for quite a while to see if there was any way to _use_ unmatched >< to get around my problems before finding the collatz functions, but i couldn't think of anything it helped with when you just have 3 cells.
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22:46:41 <ais523> if I need to keep an eye on two things that fill the screen, I just alpha-blend them
22:46:47 <ais523> it's confusing but not impossible to read
22:47:06 <Koen__> it helps with making algorithms harder to predict :-)
22:47:07 <kmc> I like to have docs and code side by side
22:47:28 <oerjan> Koen__: also i still haven't found a way to split up the final integer produced for printing. :(
22:48:09 <Koen__> I'm not really sure I know how to look at the collatz sequences to consider them a programming language
22:48:10 <myname> https://github.com/mzeo/xslt-brainfuck because fuck you :D
22:48:54 <oerjan> Koen__: as in, i haven't found a way to compute arbitrary output with just 3 cells.
22:49:04 <oerjan> (as a function of input.)
22:51:44 <oerjan> Koen__: you just program in fractran and convert that to a collatz function.
22:53:58 <oerjan> and that again is essentially programming a minsky machine, except the registers are prime exponents and you need some flag bits or similar to control flow.
22:54:52 <oerjan> (the flag bits are also prime exponents)
22:55:54 <oerjan> and any non-IO using bf program without unmatched <> can be mechanically converted to a minsky machine.
22:56:56 <oerjan> (without unmatched <>, as you noted, you essentially have named cells, which is the same as minsky machine registers.)
22:57:32 <oerjan> oh hm i guess you want the bf program not to use negative numbers :)
22:57:50 <Koen__> I don't really care about negative numbers, I think
22:57:52 <oerjan> (or wrapping, naturally)
22:58:05 <Koen__> well wrapping in 3-cell brainfuck would mean the cells are bounded
22:58:10 <Koen__> that would be quite inconvenient
22:59:00 <ais523> what if it only wraps in one direction
22:59:02 <oerjan> indeed. btw i'm not saying you use 3-cell brainfuck to _start_ with, you can use an arbitrary bounded number of cells to reduce through the path of languages.
22:59:23 <Koen__> ais523: then that would make it irreversible!
22:59:58 <Koen__> then that would make it even less so
23:00:00 <oerjan> or you mean, impossible to undo in any way
23:00:13 <Koen__> yeah I know [-] is hard to undo
23:00:33 <oerjan> any way all bf mentions in the above are intended to have unbounded cells.
23:01:15 <Bike> bf implementation where incrementing a cell at its max value makes the increment spill into a random nearby cell
23:01:19 <Koen__> not sure what you meant with "btw i'm not saying you use 3-cell brainfuck to _start_ with, you can use an arbitrary bounded number of cells to reduce through the path of languages."
23:01:22 <ais523> hmm, what about we make it wrap from -1 to 0, 256 to 0, and include a "square" instruction
23:01:28 <oerjan> but as usual, two unbounded registers is enough to simulate a tape of bounded ones.
23:01:46 <ais523> so you can get vaues above 256
23:01:55 <Koen__> I think it's from -1 to 255?
23:02:28 <oerjan> Koen__: i mean what i've described can be used as unbounded n-cell bf -> n-register minsky machine -> fractran -> collatz function -> unbounded 3-cell bf
23:05:03 <oerjan> Koen__: psst he's slyly referring to another language with a fishy smell
23:05:31 <ais523> oerjan: we need a new featured language, really
23:05:53 <Koen__> oerjan: hmmmmm is that the new fisherman language?
23:05:58 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:06:07 <oerjan> Koen__: are you being dense tcnh
23:06:10 <Koen__> also why do I have two _ in my name
23:06:23 <Koen__> I only had one this morning
23:06:29 <oerjan> (i didn't mean to misspell the acronyum but when i did i'll take advantage of it)
23:07:04 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
23:07:10 <oerjan> Koen__: because you pinged out at some point?
23:07:51 <Koen__> I would ping back in but I'm quite lazy
23:18:28 -!- Bike has joined.
23:24:02 <Phantom_Hoover> gah, the fucking bbc still won't air parks and rec season 3
23:24:36 <kmc> get a free trial EC2 VM in the US and proxy Hulu through it
23:24:42 <kmc> or you know, bittorrent
23:29:07 <kmc> imo move to sweden
23:30:15 <kmc> channeling malcolm tucker are we
23:30:35 <kmc> one of many BBC shows on Hulu :3
23:34:06 <Phantom_Hoover> can't wait for the tories to get around to gutting them
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23:34:51 <kmc> privatize the BBC and then buy it back later at a massive loss, just like the railroads
23:35:07 <kmc> actually I don't know if the govt took a loss on rail infrastructure or not
23:35:20 <kmc> but iirc they had to take over a lot of it because the trains kept crashing
23:35:43 <ais523> kmc: I actually did some work experience with Network Rail
23:36:02 <ais523> it's sort-of partly public, partly private, as far as I can tell
23:36:19 <Phantom_Hoover> i wonder if bbc scotland would split off if scotland became independent
23:36:35 <Bike> shouldn't it be sbc
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23:38:00 <ais523> well Scotland is still part of Britain, officially
23:38:05 <ais523> so the name's still accurate
23:38:09 <ais523> although a little weird
23:38:29 <ais523> it'd be like calling the BBC the "European Broadcasting Company Britain"
23:38:35 <Bike> "if scotland became independent"
23:39:13 <Phantom_Hoover> in that it implies that "EBC Britain" is part of or at least subordinate to the EBC
23:39:56 <Phantom_Hoover> i like how we're assuming 'britain' is a well-defined entity here, too
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23:57:04 <kmc> Provisional BBC, Real BBC
23:59:29 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: well the island is well-defined
23:59:37 <ais523> apart from that, there's not that much in the way of precise definitions
23:59:58 <ais523> I guess the archipelago is also well-defined, even if there's a ridiculously long ongoing edit war on Wikipedia over what to call it