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00:22:30 <Jafet> oerjan's chessboard is 5×13
00:29:38 <myname> sounds like the perfect size for a chessboard
00:29:44 -!- kmc has set topic: Approved by the Postmaster General | PDF still available during construction work: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | the boily at the end of all things.
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00:53:51 <ais523> why does libpng have Y2K compliance notice dated 2012?
00:54:05 <ais523> you'd think that by then, Y2K compliance issues would mostly have become obvious
00:54:08 <elliott> "Y2K compliant as of January 112"
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00:55:28 <kmc> maybe they use the Islamic calendar and they're just being especially proactive
00:55:56 <shachaf> Maybe there's some sort of regulation thing that they want to conform to?
00:56:25 <Bike> it's so that government time travel agencies sniffing around for software don't get scared off
00:57:05 <shachaf> Bike: did you read _The Little Prince_
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02:41:14 <Bike> http://31.media.tumblr.com/dab7aa8bf8f038956f12899a2c004a35/tumblr_mr2z3uTZ2p1s5krz3o1_400.jpg
02:41:52 <kmc> that is amazing
02:41:57 <kmc> that is like something from http://liartownusa.tumblr.com/ [nsfw]
02:42:43 <Bike> this site is extremely worrying kmc
02:42:51 <kmc> i'm glad u think so
02:42:56 <kmc> i think that means it's working
02:44:30 <kmc> this site is a lot more nsfw than last time i looked -__-
02:48:49 <Bike> DIFFICULT-TO-STRIP-TO HITS makes up for it
02:49:19 <Bike> "The Fishin' Hole (Theme from the Andy Griffith Show)"
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02:59:35 * Sgeo__ wonders what games have better soundtracks than gameplay
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02:59:49 <Sgeo__> Games with a highly rated soundtrack but poorly reviewed gameplay
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03:00:56 <kmc> the film _Antitrust_ has a fantastic soundtrack but kind of meh plot and everything else
03:01:03 <kmc> however I still enjoy watching it
03:01:30 <Bike> what's it about, breaking up monopolies?
03:02:06 <oerjan> maybe it's a misspelling of Antirust.
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03:03:26 <kmc> it's about what if microsoft went around murdering open source developers to take their code
03:03:30 <kmc> a conspiracy thriller of sorts
03:04:37 <oerjan> definitely go with the soundtrack.
03:04:57 <kmc> presumably "Antithrust" would be the porn parody
03:07:20 <Sgeo__> Oh, not actually Microsoft, just a company that is a blatant stand-in for Microsoft
03:08:13 <Bike> Megahard, one hopes.
03:08:17 <Bike> or is that in antithrust.
03:08:20 <kmc> again, porn parody
03:09:26 <oerjan> i can see that the trick is to make it _both_ a porn parody and an anti-megacorp satire
03:10:39 <kmc> maybe it should be not a porn parody but just a genre parody with lots of dirty jokes, a la _Spaceballs_
03:11:30 <Sgeo__> I watched Star Wars IV for the first time in August
03:11:43 <oerjan> apparently the danish translated Die Hard: With a Vengeance as Die Hard: Mega Hard.
03:11:43 <Sgeo__> It seemed... generic. I guess it wasn't back then
03:12:22 <oerjan> i don't think i've watched IV
03:14:29 <oerjan> Sgeo__: i _know_ i've seen the relevant tvtropes page.
03:15:09 <oerjan> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeinfeldIsUnfunny
03:32:56 <ais523> <Sgeo__> Games with a highly rated soundtrack but poorly reviewed gameplay ← Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
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03:36:47 <zzo38> Oops it looks like the video is a bit fuzzy, that perhaps the timing is not synchronized correctly or something like that
03:37:42 <zzo38> Like the clock speed for the video is not precise enough.
03:37:52 <zzo38> Do you know how to fix this problem?
03:44:57 <Sgeo__> variable variable, e's our op, if e can't solve it, no one can
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04:35:17 <zzo38> In Pokemon Card, if your opponent tries to use NIGHTLY GARBAGE RUN and stall and stuff so that you run out of cards, well, one thing I did was pass until I had drawn the last remaining card and then play ITEMFINDER to retrieve GAMBLER and play that; I won with 30 cards in draw pile when opponent has none.
04:35:26 <zzo38> This is a kind of tactics that can be used.
04:36:57 <Sgeo__> zzo38: have you looked at Cardfight Vanguard?
04:37:09 <zzo38> Sgeo__: No; can you explain?
04:38:08 <Sgeo__> It's a CCG. Each player has 6 cards in play, one (for each) is the Vanguard, which they can upgrade. 6 damage to it loses the game. And, um, maybe I shouldn't try explaining everything over IRC
04:38:47 <Sgeo__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardfight!!_Vanguard#Trading_card_game
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04:41:11 <zzo38> In the situation, no cards ever got knocked out; they didn't have much cards that could do damage, and their cards were all resisted to mine (which was actually to my advantage; I could paralyze them without allowing them to switch)
04:41:12 <SgeoWeb> The Web interface has a weird captcha
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05:15:49 <zzo38> My problem with the video seems to have fixed itself by now.
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06:20:51 <zzo38> American mahjong hands change every year just by printed cards. Another way to do something like that in a far more strange way may be like: http://www.reachmahjong.com/en/forum/viewtopic.php?p=56548#p56548
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08:36:04 <S1> Does someone here program in INTERCAL?
08:39:00 <zzo38> I know some things about it.
08:39:06 <zzo38> What is it you need?
08:39:23 <S1> nothing special. Just asking.
08:39:35 <S1> Cause I read that paper ("F - Not funny") remember that?
08:39:44 <zzo38> Without a specific question, there is no answer.
08:40:47 <S1> thx captain obvious.
08:41:42 <S1> well actually you answered. Cause the only question I had was if someone programs in INTERCAL.
08:42:06 <zzo38> You can also find INTERCAL programs if you look.
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08:44:44 <S1> cool. Where?
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08:45:33 <zzo38> I think if you looked in the esolang wiki you might find the article about INTERCAL which links to some programs. I know Knuth wrote one INTERCAL program too.
08:46:46 <S1> aaah right.... forgot that... sry ^^ thx
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13:20:59 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/
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13:27:17 <boily> good orangignal morning!
13:27:21 <boily> `relcome M_Biohazard
13:27:25 <HackEgo> M_Biohazard: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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13:33:46 <Taneb> @ask elliott did you get anywhere with your text diagrams library?
13:34:24 <M_Biohazard> I tried to make an esoteric programming language.
13:36:45 <boily> it's always good to esotericise.
13:37:55 <Koen_> M_Biohazard: it looks a lot like brainfuck
13:38:15 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 16h 49m 12s ago: the problem is, that's mutual recursion, which is a different joke.
13:39:08 <Koen_> this would explain that
13:40:35 <M_Biohazard> I think it's quite rubbish right now, though
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13:47:43 <Koen_> M_Biohazard: the "double-meaning" of all those operators is kinda strange
13:48:02 <Koen_> for instance I'd expect :( :( to be "subtract -1"
13:48:35 <Koen_> so :( :( :( would'n be -3, but 0 (because you subtract -1 from -1)
13:49:18 <boily> what is an ofto? (can't ~duck, or I will incur the wrath of the Phantom)
13:50:20 <boily> no. my monday-morning-uncaffeinated-brain can't parse the smile.
13:50:51 <Koen_> I suspect the O are eyes
13:51:18 <M_Biohazard> Well, if you wanted to subtract something, use :( :) :)
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13:52:09 <Koen_> but you say ":) :) :)" is -3
13:52:51 <Koen_> :( Either subtract (As :( :) :) :), "Subtract 3". Or like :), so :( is -1, and :( :( :( is -3
13:53:06 <Koen_> how do you make the distinction between "-3" and "subtract -1 from -1"?
13:53:22 <Koen_> also I see there's already a ;) operator for numbers
13:54:15 <Koen_> so I'd expect maybe ";) :( :( :(" to be -3, and ":( :( :(" alone to be "subtract -1 from -1"
13:54:40 <myname> what's the language you are talking about?
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13:56:07 <Koen_> your language sounds interesting
13:56:18 <Koen_> for starters, it appears to be purely functional, which is good
13:56:22 <boily> nüüüüüü! there are smiles! (and an OFTO.)
13:57:14 <M_Biohazard> IIf you think it's interesting, why not delop it yourselves?
13:58:51 <Koen_> well it's your language
13:59:01 <Koen_> but I might have suggestions!
13:59:41 <Koen_> can't wait long, I have to go
14:00:06 <Koen_> but remember, functional is good! http://xkcd.com/1270/
14:00:08 <M_Biohazard> :( and :) are both numbers, :-( and :-) could be actual subtract and add commands.
14:01:07 <Koen_> I like that + and 1 have the same keyword
14:01:35 <Koen_> well, :) can mean either "1" or "add"
14:01:49 <Koen_> you just have to make sure that it's unambiguous which is meant
14:02:23 <M_Biohazard> Koen, :) :) :) :) could be interpreted as 1+1
14:02:30 <Koen_> you could have some type-chicking - for instance, if :) is applied to a number, then it's the function "add", but if it's used as the argument of a function that expects a number, then it's the number 1
14:03:11 <Koen_> also do you have some syntax for grouping / parenthesizing?
14:03:13 <yorick> so you only have one variable?
14:03:48 <yorick> so what does clear do?
14:04:18 <Koen_> :) :):) could be interpreted as "add one to one" (so 2) but :) :) [ :) :) :)] would be "add one to (add one to one)" which is 3
14:04:27 <Tefaj> Is type-chicking used in stringly typed languages?
14:05:01 <boily> Taneb: yes, but it's done by the programmer when they don't forget to check.
14:05:23 <Koen_> what does "clear" have to do with the chinese sign language?
14:05:40 * Koen_ just realizes he managed to misread an acronym
14:05:55 <yorick> Koen_: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ofto
14:06:22 <Koen_> yorick: that's not really explanatory is it
14:06:31 <yorick> just think of it as a face
14:06:41 <Koen_> I'll try to do that
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14:10:07 <yorick> M_Biohazard: they had to bruteforce "hello, world"
14:10:40 <yorick> try all the programs under a certain length until one printed hello, world
14:10:56 <M_Biohazard> Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
14:12:11 <yorick> also malbolge might not even be able to run itself because it's not turing complete
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14:13:11 <yorick> myname: it only has 3^10 memory locations that each can hold a ten-digit ternary number (wtf :P)
14:13:18 <nooodl_> what the heck is the FT in OFTO
14:14:00 <yorick> http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/guest4/JAD.jpg
14:14:51 <yorick> I really can't make out a smile
14:16:11 <nooodl_> (ps does anyone know some way to quickly share drawings online)
14:16:38 <nooodl_> (the whole, "draw it in paint, save as png, upload to somewhere" thing is really annoying)
14:16:59 <nooodl_> ideally it'd be like an image hosting site but it has a little applet you can draw crude diagrams in
14:17:45 <yorick> I have a snapshot thing that puts things on dropbox and the link to it on my clipboard
14:18:53 <nooodl_> http://i.imgur.com/xyjCQgj.png
14:20:51 <M_Biohazard> Whoever makes a IDE or Compiler or whatever, can make OUO whatever they want.
14:23:39 <yorick> M_Biohazard: can you make more complicated examples?
14:23:55 <yorick> (also would having just one variable really be useful?)
14:24:21 <yorick> using things like repeat?
14:24:47 <yorick> and waht would you use ;) for?
14:26:58 <M_Biohazard> Well, I'm thinking it could be used like ;) (Add) ;) [:) :) :)]
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14:45:55 <yorick> so that prints random numbers up to 4?
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15:48:54 <Fiora> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/aa432714(v=office.12).aspx I I just wow
15:49:05 <Fiora> I found this linked... it's... a tri-state logic with five values
15:49:14 <Fiora> but only two are valid? I don't even know
15:49:39 <Bike> ah yeah that's a good one
15:50:32 <Bike> http://threepanelsoul.com/2013/09/30/on-local-color/ also
15:51:06 <Fiora> is that like "hacker news: the comic" xD
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17:05:59 <Fiora> I think it might be worse O_O
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17:10:27 <FireFly> Fiora: what is "tri-state boolean value" even supposed to mean?
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17:10:55 <FireFly> It has, like, three states. Except, by three I mean two.
17:11:13 <Fiora> I I don't even know
17:12:02 <Bike> wow y'all are falling down on the job
17:12:06 <Bike> `relcome M_Biohazard
17:12:10 <HackEgo> M_Biohazard: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
17:12:26 <boily> Bike: I already `relcommed M_Biohazard :p
17:12:32 <FireFly> Oh, they hadn't been `*elcome'd?
17:13:18 <Bike> boily: not since 16 o clock!
17:13:27 <HackEgo> HackEgo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
17:14:23 <lambdabot> Local time for Bike is Mon Sep 30 10:14:23 2013
17:14:51 <Bike> codu time, codu time!
17:15:25 <FireFly> And.. there were no CTCP reply. :<
17:15:32 <boily> @localtime metasepia
17:15:33 <lambdabot> Local time for metasepia is Mon Sep 30 13:15:33 EDT 2013
17:15:45 <boily> even my own bot answers CTCPes.
17:16:13 <lambdabot> Local time for boily is Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:16:13 -0400
17:17:50 <lambdabot> Local time for M_Biohazard is Mon Sep 30 18:17:48 2013
17:18:01 <lambdabot> I live on the internet, do you expect me to have a local time?
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17:56:44 <boily> netsplit? impending doom? apocalypse? why has fungot left? why? WHYYYYY???
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18:07:17 <olsner> boily: maybe fizzie is broken
18:07:43 <boily> @tell fizzie are you broken? do you impend doom?
18:07:43 <olsner> does it work to @tell fungot stuff?
18:07:53 <boily> @tell fungot can I tell you stuff?
18:07:57 <boily> olsner: we'll see.
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18:16:19 <nooodl> boily: do you know why Roujo disappeared from #esoteric
18:19:05 <boily> nooodl: he didn't feel like he could contribute positively to the channel :(
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18:22:54 <Taneb> Hey, neither can I but I'm here anyway
18:23:41 <Taneb> Why did itidus leave the channel> Why did cpressey leave the channel? Why did, I don't know, tiffany leave the channel?
18:23:52 <boily> there was a tiffany?
18:23:53 <Bike> kmc scared them off
18:27:02 <Taneb> boily, maybe a bit before your time?
18:27:47 <boily> the only traces I have of the palæochannel are in the Quotes. I think I stumbled upon a tiffany or two in there...
18:28:22 <Taneb> Did you even meet itidus
18:28:52 <boily> (hm. apparently there aren't any tiffanies in the quotes.)
18:29:27 <boily> there are even graphes, but fizzie is broken, and I can't be assed to remember where on the intarwebs his webserver is.
18:30:14 <olsner> z-something-something dot fi, I think
18:31:44 <nortti> hmm, when did itidus leave?
18:32:44 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2957
18:33:13 <olsner> nortti: fairly long time ago I think
18:33:43 <boily> I think he was there... last week?
18:33:57 <nortti> his last msg in my logs is 2013/05/29
18:34:28 <nortti> but that was really just a visit to say hi
18:34:30 <boily> oh, itidus, not nortti.
18:34:53 <Taneb> I think a fire alarm is happening, bbl
18:35:15 <olsner> boily: nortti is here right now
18:36:31 <nortti> before that, 2012/10/13
18:36:37 <boily> you didn't hear any facepalm. any reverberating sound is an audiollucination.
18:38:14 <nortti> also, am I consisdered to have left the channel?
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18:41:39 <Taneb> Well, that was fun
18:47:47 <shachaf> "Well, that was fun" -- Taneb "atriq" Ngevd
18:48:37 <Taneb> `addquote <shachaf> "Well, that was fun" -- Taneb "atriq" Ngevd
18:48:41 <HackEgo> 1111) <shachaf> "Well, that was fun" -- Taneb "atriq" Ngevd
18:49:39 <boily> we're up to 1111? wooooah...
18:49:48 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18673
18:50:58 <shachaf> Taneb: wow, that's a bad quote
18:51:14 <Taneb> Mostly to mess with boily's pdf
18:51:21 <boily> (in elliott's honour, that one about artificially inflating the concentration of djangoes and giraffes is not included.)
18:51:41 <boily> Taneb: continue like that, and I'll add you as a collaborator to the github repo.
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18:52:32 <reynir> I seem to be in too many channels
18:52:35 <Taneb> This morning my university gave me a pack including, among other things, some tic-tacs, some chocolate, and a condom
18:52:46 <boily> Taneb: in fact, as a preventive measure, you are now a conspirator. congratulations, you have full commit access.
18:52:58 <Taneb> If an actual person did that, I'd be confused and offended
18:53:08 <Bike> are you offended by tic tacs
18:53:10 <olsner> is that a github repo for the pdfwisdom?
18:53:10 <boily> well, tic tacs are great.
18:53:36 <Taneb> Bike, by that specific combination
18:53:43 <boily> reynir: who are you? were you `relcommed? do you like pulled pork sandwiches?
18:53:49 <Bike> i'm not seeing the connection between chocolate and condoms
18:54:06 <olsner> boily: but https://github.com/poulet/ is empty?
18:54:28 <boily> Bike: one happens before, the other after.
18:54:54 <boily> olsner: by the way, what kind of thought process lead you to think that I'm a chicken on github???
18:55:00 -!- reynir has left ("See you guys later").
18:55:16 <olsner> boily: because you say poulet so often
18:55:34 <boily> olsner: oh. my quit message.
18:56:02 <boily> no, I'm pfcuttle. the repo is at https://github.com/pfcuttle/wisdom. it is private.
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18:57:21 <boily> olsner: are you simon brenner?
18:57:50 <olsner> my github is fairly empty
18:58:28 <boily> there is haskell and assembly stuff, and it is fairly empty. I deduce that you are olsner.
18:59:25 <olsner> I might actually move the rest of my assembly stuff onto github soon
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19:21:37 <zzo38> What is the best method for chombo penalties in mahjong?
19:22:13 <boily> zzo38: method? you mean, the amount that should be given?
19:22:54 <zzo38> boily: No, see http://www.reachmahjong.com/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53165 for what I mean.
19:25:18 <boily> oh. that's a very interesting thread.
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19:27:02 <zzo38> I don't know if you have concluded like I have that there is something wrong with the tournament format.
19:27:31 <zzo38> (Such a format would still work on a computer though)
19:28:59 <boily> at our club, in a regular game, we apply chombo full force for important errors that would disrupt the game. for minor mistakes, like bumping the wall, it's a 1000 in the riichi pile.
19:29:11 <boily> in tournament games, it's chombo all the way.
19:30:01 <boily> one of our players went to european tournaments. he hates those from the EMA who enforce kuitan nashi :D
19:30:50 <zzo38> I don't like kuitan nashi either.
19:31:43 <boily> a strategically placed open tanyao against someone who obviously is going to score baiman or more is histerical.
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19:33:35 <zzo38> Yes, and when you need 2 han to win, open tanyao becomes more difficult to make, so you still have part of the consequences of kuitan nashi in a few cases.
19:36:53 <zzo38> In discussing different mahjong variants, someone mentioned American, which changes every year (and is otherwise extremely different from other mahjong games, but I will ignore that for what follows). Did you see my idea of one that changes continuously based on the planets?
19:37:05 <boily> the first point Kyuu makes is important if you are in a ladder. for our last local tournaments, you played (approximatively) one game against each other member.
19:37:20 <boily> score depended on your end position.
19:37:55 <zzo38> Yes that is important in such a format.
19:38:07 <boily> therefore, regular chomboes work, as giving points to the other players only affect a single game.
19:38:30 <boily> I think I may have to subscribe to that forum, and throw in my two cents eventually.
19:38:44 <zzo38> Yes, I think a single game is a format that works better (although see the rest of the thread too).
19:38:52 <boily> (or at least 5¢, as we don't have any pennies anymore...)
19:39:11 <boily> I read it, and there are some extreme measures in there!
19:39:14 <boily> I mean, yakuman???
19:39:28 <zzo38> The government doesn't make pennies anymore, and they are no longer required for payment, although we still have pennies (and I still use it)
19:39:59 <zzo38> Well, you can see the reasoning in those measures there, even though it seem strange
19:40:01 <boily> I have a bucket of them. they are gathering dust.
19:43:13 <zzo38> In a tournament format based on the total scores of each player to determine ranking in the tournament, any method seems unfair for some reason.
19:43:21 <zzo38> Does it look that way to you too?
19:44:02 <boily> well... I like the traditional chombo, but for situations where you could continue playing with one player tsumogirying...
19:44:22 <boily> aaaaaurgh. you're making me think on a Monday! that shouldn't be happening!
19:46:38 <boily> giving points to the opponents is very important if their position depends on their final scores. if tournament ranking is orthogonal to match points, then giving points is less relevant.
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19:51:01 <zzo38> Yes, and that is the kind of problems being mentioned.
19:51:57 <boily> zzo38: I'll have to discuss those matters with the other club members, if we're going to have any tournament next year.
19:52:10 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: what is an antichamber?
19:52:40 <boily> zzo38: by the way, any chance to have a joust between Vancouver and Montréal?
19:53:04 <boily> (feel free to replace Vancouver with whichever BC city you live in, as I couldn't really pinpoint where you come from.)
19:53:29 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: you shouldn't have said that. I don't have enough free time.
19:53:40 <zzo38> I am in Vancouver often enough, but I don't know how to have a joust between Vancouver and Montreal.
19:54:21 <boily> hmm... flying a whole mahjong club across the country ought to be expensive.
20:01:47 <zzo38> I once had a idea of some game that you cast a horoscope for the current time and place and then the positions of planets and houses and aspects and so on determines things in the rules of the game; the rules then change over time due to the planets, houses, and moon movement, and if in a moving vehicle, based on that too. What is your opinion of this kind of strange ideas?
20:02:48 <boily> I am way too tempted to try that than socially acceptable.
20:03:39 <boily> you're talking to a former nethack player. I miss having to take the moon phase into consideration in a game :D
20:04:21 <zzo38> Yes in this kind of game I have this idea of, the phase of the moon will be into consideration too.
20:11:38 <boily> I want to grow a bonsaï.
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20:43:30 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: how'd you break it :o
20:43:37 <Bike> (alt.: how can you tell)
20:43:52 <Bike> ok i guess that's pretty clear yeah
20:44:36 <Phantom_Hoover> well you can also fill in cubes, and if you're inside a cube when it fills in, it crashes
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21:06:22 <fizzie> boily: I am doing a thing.
21:06:28 <boily> Guest36655: hi! bonjour!
21:06:37 <boily> fizzie: uhm. what kind of thing?
21:06:49 <fizzie> boily: The thing involves a reorganization of hardware and that kind of stuff.
21:07:21 <boily> oh. good luck with your thing, then!
21:07:37 <fizzie> It might be that I'm going to have to go to sleep before a fungot. (Though I'm slightly unsure why it went down; it's on a separate machine.)
21:10:36 <fizzie> Oh, of course, it must've been the IPv6 tunnel.
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21:15:51 -!- fizzie has quit (Changing host).
21:15:51 -!- fizzie has joined.
21:17:04 <fizzie> I got it back online, but it's refusing to obey me because my username is nonstandard.
21:18:02 <fizzie> It has a "~htkallas" where a "fis" should be.
21:18:15 <fizzie> It's short for Signal Processing and Acoustics.
21:18:30 -!- fizzie has changed nick to fizziew.
21:18:50 -!- fizzie has joined.
21:18:55 <fizzie> I shall do it with this instead.
21:19:33 -!- fungot has joined.
21:20:13 <boily> fungot: oh hai! (and no damning my mother)
21:20:13 <fungot> boily: maclisp cruft in r5rs, where it was from the us
21:24:14 <kmc> http://ariya.github.io/css/spinningcube/ CSS is getting pretty powerful...
21:24:56 <boily> that is the work of a witch! CSS was never meant to be useful!
21:24:58 <Bike> i'm just going to assume that loading my webpage would kill my computer.
21:25:19 <boily> (now I know where fungot drew AMICED from.)
21:25:19 <fungot> boily: while loops and gotos are bad therefore loops with tail-recursion are bad?
21:25:37 <boily> fungot: tail-recursion is good.
21:25:38 <fungot> boily: eye trackers track where your eyes look like? like a basic firewall problem. it's that simple.
21:26:55 <boily> fungot: of course I'd like to have a firewall if I'm wearing google glasses.
21:26:56 <fungot> boily: if you just rearrange your arguments to a macro???
21:27:06 <boily> fungot: only in the wisdom PDF.
21:28:15 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, the thing that scares me most about these things is that i can select the text
21:29:16 <kmc> I mean each side of the cube can be arbitrary HTML content
21:30:46 <kmc> remember when people thought it was really cool that you could run a compositing window manager and put a different window on each side of a spinning cube
21:30:49 <kmc> well the browser is the compositing window manager of the future
21:31:53 <Bike> i look forward to whatever system we use inside the browser that grows to take on its role
21:32:07 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
21:32:25 <Bike> facebook, maybe. people still use facebook, right
21:33:12 <boily> imagine... four revolutions of the facebook CSS composited cube at the same time...
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21:40:17 <kmc> yeah that's the scary thing
21:40:21 <kmc> Facebook really does want to replace the Web
21:40:25 <kmc> I don't think they'll succeed though
21:41:08 <Bike> i see kmc is a google+ pusher
21:41:33 <kmc> I bet there's some cool open source Mozilla federated social network project that I'm supposed to be pushing
21:41:53 <Bike> how does federation work
21:42:00 <kmc> insert star trek joke
21:42:19 <Bike> today while eating at a franchise of a large chain i was wondering if you could break the management structure up more so it'd be less uniform
21:43:12 <Bike> somebody in this lab just explained if/else. described as "very powerful". it's true
21:43:42 <kmc> elaborate re: management?
21:44:18 <Bike> oh, just like, franchises are managed from above i assume, they coordinate different menu changes and such so it's uniform across franchises
21:45:00 <boily> that's the second anamanaguchi PV I watch. didn't make sense, like the first one.
21:45:02 <Bike> i was just imagining it not being quite so uniform. like the coordinator for franchises in my state uses a slightly different menu from the one in california (i suppose they might do that already)
21:45:10 <kmc> menus do vary regionally yes
21:45:13 <kmc> I don't know how much that's coordinated
21:45:29 <boily> I don't understand facebook, much less google+. what are their purpose? how do they work?
21:45:37 <Phantom__Hoover> it sounds interesting but i am afraid i will become Bike if i take it
21:45:47 <Bike> good news, i haven't done anything in systems biology yet
21:45:48 <olsner> nice, the reason lwip didn't put any source/destination address in my ethernet packets was that memcpy was broken
21:45:48 <boily> Phantom__Hoover: nah. it's biology, you can't become a Bike.
21:45:49 <kmc> fast food franchises seem to be pretty uniform but other things less so
21:46:02 <olsner> it pretty much worked as long as you only called it once per function
21:46:35 <kmc> like there are a bunch of hardware stores in the US branded as "Ace Hardware" but they use that branding alongside some store specific branding, and they vary a lot in appearance, how things are organized, etc.
21:46:41 <kmc> but apparently "it is a co-op and not a franchise"
21:46:49 <Bike> ooh, that's interesting
21:47:03 <Bike> is each store a co-op which independently negotiates with the rest?
21:47:23 <kmc> a "retailers' cooperative" which is a different thing from a "consumers' cooperative" i.e. hippie grocery store?
21:47:28 <kmc> I don't know
21:47:44 <Bike> i don't know either. the only co-op i'm familiar with is one around my hometown that sells farm supplies.
21:47:50 <kmc> it might be that "Ace Hardware" is effectively just a hardware store supplier
21:48:00 <kmc> which does some branding in order to promote its clients
21:51:07 <boily> http://goo.gl/maps/NUras
21:51:49 <boily> kmc: does the street view concord to your version of ace hardware?
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21:52:47 <Bike> yup, that's definitely it.
21:53:02 <Bike> is "quincallerie" the translation for "hardware"?
21:53:05 <ais523> hmm… I found a 3-valued boolean in the ncursesw API
21:53:30 <ais523> those things crop up in all sorts of places
21:53:46 <Bike> imo we should use four-valued booleans, because that's the best kind of logic
21:54:04 <boily> Bike: a «quincaillerie» is a hardware shop.
21:55:36 <ais523> Bike: nah, nine-valued booleans are where it's at
21:55:55 <Bike> what are the values
21:56:07 <Bike> oh, lectricity
21:56:30 <ais523> I nearly always forget one
21:56:45 <ais523> if it is -, it means an irrelevant value
21:56:52 <ais523> like "skip" in Algol 68
21:57:03 <olsner> used to work with a codebase that had distinct enums with YES/NO/MAYBE, XY_TRUE/XY_FALSE/XY_FILE_NOT_FOUND (+ all other possible error codes) *and* TRUE/FALSE
21:57:25 <ais523> olsner: having FILE_NOT_FOUND in there somewhere is traditional for a multivalued boolean
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21:59:15 <oerjan> happy australian mailman reminder's day!
21:59:37 <kmc> olsner: O_O
21:59:41 <oerjan> (just in the last minute, too)
22:00:10 <kmc> XY_TRUE, XX_TRUE, X0_TRUE
22:00:34 <olsner> XY was just an arbitrary prefix so it doesn't conflict with normal booleans
22:00:42 <kmc> ais523: it used to be that in Rust you could write "2u8 as bool" and this would give a bool that compares unequal to both true and false
22:00:45 <ais523> oerjan: why the apostrophe?
22:01:02 <ais523> kmc: in Perl 6, you can write "true but False" and have a bool that's like true in every way, except that it's false
22:01:08 <ais523> e.g. it stringifies to "true"
22:01:21 <oerjan> ais523: i only got an apostrophe wrong? that's better than expected!
22:01:26 <kmc> the Rust thing was a bug; that's just perverse ;P
22:01:52 <ais523> oerjan: well elliott insists on writing it as "australian mailman mailing list reminders day", but nobody else cares
22:01:57 <kmc> that's worse than "0 but true"
22:02:04 <ais523> kmc: it's the replacement for "0 but true"
22:02:28 <boily> we lost our australian.
22:02:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:02:53 <olsner> what does the 'but' operator do?
22:02:54 <elliott> ais523: it's actually "Australian mailman mailing list memberships reminder(s) day", in full
22:03:08 <ais523> olsner: it applies a mixin to an object
22:03:37 <oerjan> elliott: now get wikipedia to acknowledge it on the front page
22:03:56 <elliott> ah yes, Wikipedia politics, my true calling.
22:04:03 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v elliott.
22:04:10 <elliott> tired of having voice when nothing I say is interesting
22:04:56 <kmc> you are interesting
22:05:00 <zzo38> I think you can make somelike "true but False" in the other way around, in JavaScript, at least, making false into a object will be true even though it is string to "false" and so on, is other way around
22:05:31 <ais523> zzo38: huh right, that would work
22:06:00 <kmc> crap, what does one do as an op when someone's IRC client is rapidly connecting and disconnecting, producing lots of join/quit spam
22:06:15 <elliott> kmc: in #haskell we tempban with a redirect to ##fixyourconnection
22:06:19 <kmc> how do I do that
22:06:26 <zzo38> kmc: You could filter them out on the client side I suppose
22:06:39 <kmc> no, on Mozilla IRC
22:06:44 <kmc> but it might be the same
22:06:53 <kmc> well how do you do it on freenode B|
22:06:55 <elliott> appending $##fixyourconnection to the ban is how you do it on freenode
22:07:05 <elliott> but I think maybe redirects are a separate mode on some ircds and stuff?
22:07:23 <kmc> we're running Unreal ircd
22:07:31 <ais523> kmc: yeah, the usual response to join spam is a short ban
22:07:33 * kmc r's the f m
22:07:33 <elliott> also ##fixyourconnection exists on freenode and probably not on mozilla irc
22:07:38 <ais523> elliott: it doesn't have to exist
22:07:42 <kmc> elliott: sure, I can join it tho :D
22:07:52 <ais523> it just has to not be already in use for some other purpose
22:08:02 <elliott> banishing people to a channel with only kmc in it
22:08:02 <ais523> although, on Freenode, it probably has a mode set allowing anyone to redirect people to it
22:08:29 <kmc> elliott: that's some twilight zone shit
22:09:01 <zzo38> I have written a lot more about HWPL and removed and changed a few things I already had before, too
22:09:06 <Phantom__Hoover> he complains to you about haskellers and programmers living in california until you fix your connectio
22:09:16 <zzo38> The RAM and MUX and DEMUX commands are removed, for one
22:09:42 <shachaf> do i say interesting things
22:13:39 <kmc> Phantom__Hoover: http://rationality.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Bay-Area-memespace1.jpg
22:13:53 <shachaf> i played mölkky with kmc and Gracenotes
22:14:02 <shachaf> and also douglass_ but she's not in this channel
22:14:50 <oerjan> is this a lass by the name of doug
22:14:57 <boily> circumstantial evidence tends to point to the fact that people from #esoteric meeting IRL don't cause the universe to implode.
22:15:05 <kmc> and it's not a map of memes, it's a map of community self-images
22:16:01 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: you have a terminal disorder
22:16:17 -!- Bike has joined.
22:16:32 <elliott> kmc: this image makes me want to set fire to san francisco ;_;
22:16:44 <oerjan> the newline should come _after_ the other character, you see.
22:16:54 <kmc> elliott: ok just give me 48 hours notice
22:17:15 <ais523> please, no setting major cities (or even minor cities) on fire
22:17:27 <Bike> san francisco's been on fire before! it'll be fine
22:18:35 <kmc> yeah in the 1850s the city would burn down like every other week http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist1/fire.html
22:18:52 <kmc> that's why we now have triple redundant firefighting water supplies
22:19:26 <ais523> because fires tend to destroy a maximum of two water supplies?
22:19:28 <elliott> every time I look at this image I find something newly upsetting in it
22:20:06 <Bike> the salesperson was quite clear that doubly-redundant systems are quote for suckas endquote
22:20:40 <kmc> there's the city water supply, and then there's a whole separate network of high pressure pipes just for fighting fires
22:20:51 <kmc> the latter can be pumped with saltwater from the bay if the reservoirs are destroyed
22:20:58 <Bike> this image that's causing pyrmoania is fucking amazing.
22:21:03 <kmc> and then there are also hundreds of isolated cisterns under the streets
22:21:24 <Bike> Computer Scientists -> Bayesian epistemology -> Effective Altruists
22:21:25 <Phantom__Hoover> oh dear, the systems biology module has differential equations as a prerequisite
22:21:49 <boily> Frisco is now fireproof, but is it alienproof?
22:21:50 -!- mnoqy has joined.
22:21:52 <Bike> is it time for me to tell phantom about turing's working on differential equations for modeling developmental systems
22:21:53 <kmc> the cisterns are marked with big red brick circles so that the fire department can find them even if they're drunk, which they frequently are http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/SF-firefighter-could-face-DUI-hit-run-case-4641434.php
22:22:17 <boily> darn. and I guess it is waterproof, too?
22:22:22 <Bike> Hacker culture -> With cleverness, we can do better than establishment institutions -> Quanitified self
22:22:31 <Bike> Hacker culture -> Life-hacking -> Rationalists
22:23:18 <Bike> it's got some good points, though. like "LGBTQ culture" being on the other side of the map from "Respect people for what they create"
22:23:53 <kmc> also people need to stop giving SF all the credit for the 60s counterculture, LGBTQ rights, etc
22:24:06 <Bike> woodstock was in SF right
22:24:12 <kmc> no, upstate new york
22:24:16 <kmc> stonewall riots were in NYC
22:24:41 <Bike> i guess i forgot that in addition to being how i joke it's also how i talk normally
22:25:01 <kmc> and the most enduring effects of 60s youth protest were in the South
22:25:03 <kmc> namely civil rights
22:25:18 <Bike> nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
22:25:26 <kmc> i was thinking the other day about the absurdity of describing Burning Man as a "counterculture event" given that it's thoroughly mainstream among the tech elite who largely control the world
22:26:02 <Fiora> kmc: isn't... um.... what's it called
22:26:05 <Fiora> SXSW something like that too?
22:26:19 <kmc> I haven't heard anyone label SXSW as "counterculture"
22:26:27 <kmc> probably someone has tho
22:26:30 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:26:36 <Bike> in this wide and wonderful world
22:26:37 <Fiora> (I still dont understand what it is though? except that like hipstery people talk about it)
22:26:43 <oerjan> kmc: it's culture among those who count, right?
22:26:43 <Bike> i think it has music?
22:26:57 <elliott> SXSW: homeless wifi spots and also I guess a lot of bands??
22:27:02 <kmc> it's a combination art/music festival and startup demo convention
22:27:04 <kmc> for some reason
22:27:05 -!- azaq231 has joined.
22:27:07 <kmc> I think the latter kind of ate the former
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22:27:20 <Bike> i only know it from jwz, who mostly talks about the bands
22:27:30 <kmc> anyway getting naked and high in the desert doesn't make you a rebel, as much as I enjoy this activity
22:27:59 <elliott> I'd like to see kmc and jwz complain about things together
22:28:26 <kmc> he'd probably hate me
22:28:46 <kmc> I think he's sick of nerds who only know about his nightclub for nerdy things
22:28:50 <oerjan> `addquote <kmc> anyway getting naked and high in the desert doesn't make you a rebel, as much as I enjoy this activity
22:28:52 <kmc> as it happens I don't give a shit about industrial music
22:28:57 <HackEgo> 1112) <kmc> anyway getting naked and high in the desert doesn't make you a rebel, as much as I enjoy this activity
22:29:00 <ais523> oerjan: I was going to addquote that too
22:29:07 <ais523> except I'd be less sure about it
22:29:20 <Bike> i don't share much music taste with jwz either, lol.
22:29:29 <ais523> like, I tend to be the sort of person who soul-searches and then asks permission, before adding a quote
22:29:32 <Bike> (except for the rez soundtrack, inexplicably)
22:29:32 <kmc> do you like... secretly know jwz personally, or something?
22:29:50 <kmc> also, <3 rez
22:29:54 <Bike> music is like half the content of his blog is all
22:29:56 <elliott> 23:29:29 <ais523> like, I tend to be the sort of person who soul-searches and then asks permission, before adding a quote
22:29:59 <elliott> 23:28:14 <oerjan> should i `addquote kmc or not
22:30:03 <Bike> rez is the vibrator game.
22:30:27 <elliott> my soul services are available free of charge
22:30:33 <ais523> elliott: hey, just because I soul-search and ask permission before adding a quote doesn't mean oerjan doesn't too :)
22:30:41 <kmc> Bike: surely there's more than one by now
22:31:20 <Bike> kmc: a while ago i was looking at a teledildonics company's site actually. everything was super straightforward and it didn't use the term "teledildonics" so i think that means it's mainstream now.
22:32:09 <ais523> Bike: I think they're marketing at people who don't already know what it is
22:32:43 <Bike> probably. it was pretty straightforward, just linked dildos and, uh, i forget what you call the ones for dicks
22:32:49 <kmc> Bike: my friend works for a hardware startup and can't tell me what they do, but I've decided (and successfully convinced others) that it must be Android-powered cock rings
22:33:09 <Bike> i admit that i don't really know what cock rings are for or why they would be powered.
22:33:36 <kmc> iirc they constrict bloodflow to allow one to maintain an erection better
22:33:43 <kmc> not gonna double check that while I'm at work
22:33:46 <Bike> oh. that's pretty clever.
22:33:56 <kmc> it's scary :(
22:33:59 <Bike> "i can't look them up, but speculating at work is okay"
22:34:26 <ais523> I think kmc's explanations here are consistent with the typical superficial NSFW restrictions that most employers use
22:34:51 <oerjan> they need to go deeper
22:34:59 <kmc> the text on my screen is pretty hard to read from a distance
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22:35:39 <kmc> at Folsom Street Fair i saw a naked guy with a rubber tail coming out of his butt (presumably attached to a plug)
22:36:05 <ais523> kmc: you could use the fake terminal I wrote recently, before I implemented fonts
22:36:11 <kmc> it was pretty cute
22:36:13 <ais523> it went and rendered all characters the same way
22:36:19 <ais523> thus it was impossible to read the text at any different
22:36:30 <kmc> Phantom__Hoover: on special occasions yes
22:36:35 <ais523> it was quite hard to play NetHack like that, I had to go on the color
22:36:44 <kmc> I bike to work on Folsom St. every day and I haven't seen this any other time of year...
22:38:28 <oerjan> wat, the coop sent me membership savings coupons and 3 of them are for specific foodstuffs i actually buy regularly
22:38:35 <kmc> they're watching you
22:39:36 <oerjan> i suppose it's _possible_ they actually do that, although i doubt they can afford the printing of separate coupon sets for every single member
22:41:00 <ais523> oerjan: they probably sent them on the foodstuffs that are most commonly bought
22:41:10 <ais523> things that you buy often are probably also bought often by other people
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22:46:26 <oerjan> it _is_ printed separately. the sheet has my name on it in two different places.
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22:50:25 <oerjan> oh there it says in small print that they're actually doing it
22:52:35 <kmc> I haven't been to DNA Lounge but I have been to DNA Pizza
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22:53:35 <fizziew> There was that story about Target's automated data analysis sending ads of baby stuff to someone, and her father being all "She's still in high school, and you're sending her coupons for baby clothes and cribs? Are you trying to encourage her to get pregnant?" and it turned out his daughter was in fact pregnant, he just didn't know.
22:53:52 <fizziew> But the data miners, they know.
22:54:08 <kmc> "But it's too late. I've seen everything."
22:54:15 <Bike> was the pizza good
22:54:25 <kmc> Bike: it was a'ight
22:54:31 <kmc> cost way too much tho
22:56:42 <oerjan> fizziew: i just realized this is another proof i am old :(
22:57:00 <oerjan> thinking this couldn't be possible
22:57:28 <Fiora> amazon has very much figured out what games I like
22:57:49 <Fiora> "new for you: etrian odyssey untold: the millenium girl, hakuoki: memories of the shinsengumi"
22:58:11 <oerjan> Fiora: not finding out, but bothering to print and mail individual paper ads and expect to make a profit doing so
22:58:59 <Fiora> "tales of xillia, shin megami tensei 4, final fantasy X/X-2 HD, pandora's tower, golden sun: dark dawn, tales of symphonia chronicles" their recommendations are scary good
22:59:31 <Bike> amazon still thinks i really want to read Beats.
22:59:39 <Fiora> (that's the top 8, like, I didn't even omit any)
22:59:46 * pikhq_ def looks forward to FFX HD
22:59:54 <Fiora> oh cool. it even lets you tell it what things you don't want, or already own
23:00:23 <Fiora> "Tales of Xillia - Recommended because you purchased Sweet Fuse: At Your Side w/Pre order bonus - Sony PSP" // how does this work
23:00:51 <Bike> the "because you purchased" things probably oversimplify a lot
23:01:05 <Fiora> yeah. also wow I own like 5 of the things on their recommendation list xD
23:01:18 <Bike> though i don't think "girly VN -> another tales of game" is too hard a conclusion!!
23:02:28 <kmc> is there a way to use Amazon's recommendation engine to decide what to buy a friend as a gift
23:02:31 <kmc> that'd be pretty cool
23:02:33 <kmc> just put in stuff I know they have
23:02:55 <ais523> kmc: you could try going onto a temporary profile, and looking at all the stuff you know they have
23:03:01 <ais523> and hoping their adverts system picks up on it
23:03:02 <oerjan> Fiora: does it make a distinction between "i own this and i liked it" and "i own this but only because someone had the bad sense of giving it as a present"?
23:03:12 <kmc> i could buy it all and then cancel within 30 min >_>
23:03:20 <kmc> fizziew: are you the wchar_t version of fizzie?
23:03:27 <Bike> I think you can set it up to let other people see your recommendations and such
23:04:32 <Fiora> oerjan: you can remove something from your "owned" list if you don't want it to apply to your recommendations
23:04:38 <Fiora> amazon lets you manage everything, I think
23:04:39 <Bike> http://www.amazon.com/gp/betterizer ah, hm...
23:05:30 <Bike> this is all reminding me that my Izhikevich hasn't arrived yet. you jerks.
23:06:12 * Fiora finds ar tonelico on the "recommendations" list and carefully throws it into an ocean trench
23:06:41 <fizzie> No, I think that would be wfizzie instead.
23:07:42 <pikhq_> Or FizzieWExLawlICantBelieveThisIsHowWindowsNamesShit on Win32.
23:08:34 <fizzie> FizzieA and FizzieW, for the "ANSI" and "wide" fizzies.
23:09:04 <Bike> i'm imagining disposing of some radioactive waste into a trench carefully just so that it doesn't get caught on the sid eor soething
23:09:35 <kmc> ah yes the famous character encoding "ANSI"
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23:11:05 <ais523> kmc: just call it windows-1252
23:11:08 <ais523> like everyone else does
23:11:38 <pikhq_> Windows has done more to hurt understanding of character sets than anything else...
23:12:03 <kmc> the great thing is that on the Web you can call it "ASCII", "iso8859-1", or "latin1" and that still means Windows-1252
23:12:06 <kmc> http://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/
23:12:10 <pikhq_> I mean, seriously, "ANSI" for legacy charsets, "OEM" for still-older legacy charsets, and "Unicode" for UTF-16LE?
23:12:41 <kmc> and not actually UTF16 / Unicode either, right? I mean I think a lot of those APIs will do the wrong thing with surrogate code units
23:12:51 <kmc> the Web does :(
23:13:33 <kmc> 'FEMININE ORDINAL INDICATOR' (U+00AA) is a strangely named character
23:14:56 <coppro> pikhq_: yeah, what the fuck
23:15:06 <coppro> why the fuck does *anyone* do *anything* in LE
23:15:21 <coppro> pikhq_: that is not a reason
23:15:25 <kmc> not just x86 but almost every architecture still in wide use
23:15:43 <pikhq_> Actually, yeah, pretty much all the BE stuff is either obscure or dead.
23:15:50 <shachaf> the cool architectures let you specify endianness per page
23:16:01 <oerjan> kmc: is it a superscript a ?
23:16:07 <kmc> oerjan: with a line under it yeah
23:16:13 <coppro> am I mixing up big and little again
23:16:18 <Fiora> I remember LE has that nice little bit where accessing some variable in memory gives the same value no matter the size of the data type, I think?
23:16:25 <Fiora> like, since the low byte is always the low byte
23:16:30 <oerjan> kmc: that fits for some romance languages, at least
23:16:48 <kmc> oerjan: yeah; it still seems like the wrong level on which to describe the character
23:16:52 <kmc> but i'm not like, a character expert
23:17:03 <elliott> little endian is the correct one <_<
23:17:22 * kmc hugs coppro ?
23:17:26 <ais523> there are very few reasons to go with either
23:17:27 <shachaf> kmc: are you of good moral character
23:17:29 <Bike> the best part of 'endian' is the etymology.
23:17:30 <elliott> Fiora: you could argue that big endian is better because you can "drop precision"
23:17:33 <kmc> shachaf: who wants to know
23:17:36 <elliott> by ignoring the less significant bits
23:17:41 <ais523> which is why LE is probably a better choice because there's at least one minorish reason to go with that
23:17:53 <ais523> elliott: that assumes that the variable is a fixedpoint in the range 0 to 1
23:17:54 <coppro> BE is better since it's what we humans use
23:18:07 <elliott> Fiora: like, the dual of what you get with ignoring the rest of the bits with little endian
23:18:13 <ais523> those aren't very common, but when they are used, BE would arguably be better
23:18:18 <Fiora> elliott: that makes sense
23:18:26 <elliott> but what little endian gets you is probably much more useful than that
23:18:30 <ais523> like, the question is "are you using this data type because the entire range matters", or "are you using this data type because it has sufficient range"?
23:18:58 <kmc> "An encoder encoder's error algorithm takes a code point c and is as follows... Otherwise, if encoder's error handling mode is URL, emit byte 0x3F."
23:19:27 <elliott> also little endian fits the structure of how you write successor/addition/etc. stuff recursively on a list-of-bits data type >_>
23:19:35 <ais523> kmc: is that ... an elision, or was it like that in the original quote?
23:19:43 <ais523> elliott: but /division/ you'd do bigendianly
23:19:45 <kmc> an elision
23:19:49 <kmc> shachaf: probably not then
23:20:04 <shachaf> kmc: did you see http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/
23:21:03 <shachaf> "Applicant did not file his federal income tax returns in a timely manner for the tax years 2003 through 2009 nor did he pay taxes for those years. Additionally, he used marijuana from 1998 to 2008 and cocaine from 1998 to 2000. Applicant has rebutted or mitigated the security concerns under financial considerations and drug involvement. Clearance is granted. "
23:21:04 <Bike> this is... something, shachaf.
23:21:18 <kmc> two years spent doing nothing but cocaine 24/7
23:22:23 <kmc> "Although the Applicant has been found not to be a pedophile by his treating Psychiatrist," great way to start a sentence
23:22:54 <ais523> kmc: you could say that about basically anyone who has a psychiatrist
23:23:13 <kmc> I think "found not to be a pedophile" is different from "not found to be a pedophile"
23:23:21 <ais523> I guess, it's stronger
23:23:25 <Bike> oh are you doing that "read things in a weird 'logical' way instead of a remotely reasonable way" thing
23:23:39 <kmc> it's a difference of kind not just of degree
23:23:47 <ais523> kmc: I meant logically stronger
23:23:52 <kmc> an affirmative action "find" versus lack of action
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23:24:48 <kmc> "x-user-defined" best character encoding???
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23:25:16 <ais523> kmc: what's the encoding name for "direct to character ROM"?
23:25:43 <ais523> (I was vaguely sad to discover that Linux had decided to officially reinterpret that code as "code page 437" and not update the docs, although it made my life rather easier writing libuncursed)
23:27:09 <kmc> apparently "x-user-defined" is extended ASCII where the high-bit bytes map to the Unicode Pick Up Artist^W^W^W Private Use Area at 0xF780
23:27:27 <kmc> probably for lack of anything better to map them to
23:27:41 <oerjan> ok can anyone explain how to interpreted that OFTO smiley in the logs
23:27:42 <shachaf> hmm, dual citizens can't get security clearance in the us without relinquishing their foreign passport?
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23:28:23 <ais523> kmc: Linux officially mapped Klingon onto the Private Use Area
23:28:32 <ais523> apparently, because it got rejected by the Unicode Consortium
23:28:35 <kmc> ah and you use it when you want to transfer binary data, because if you say "latin-1" then it's actually Windows-1252 #fml #burndowntheweb
23:29:05 <ais523> isn't that application/octet-stream?
23:29:15 <ais523> like, if you're transferring binary data
23:29:28 <ais523> not only are the characters from 0x80 upwards undefined, the characters from 0x7F downwards are too
23:29:34 <olsner> maybe octet-stream is also an alias for Windows-1252
23:29:35 <kmc> I don't know, but there's some case where one needs this
23:29:36 <pikhq_> ais523: To be fair, there's at least a conscript registry "standardizing" the mapping of the PUA?
23:29:52 <oerjan> i recall from way back that the conlanging community tried to divide up the private use area for conlangs. don't know if that stuck.
23:30:00 <ais523> at least, the Linux kernel devs are apparently in communication with them
23:30:04 <ais523> or were when they wrote the docs
23:30:08 <ais523> and they arranged to avoid clashes
23:30:16 <pikhq_> http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/ Presumably that.
23:31:07 <Bike> "With the exception of his child support arrearage, he took no significant steps to resolve his debts until he learned [that] his debts were an impediment to obtaining a public trust position."
23:33:22 <zzo38> Was Einstein panendeist?
23:34:42 <oerjan> zzo38: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein%27s_religious_views
23:35:04 <kmc> www.waseinsteinpanendeist.com
23:35:32 <kmc> looks like german when you smoosh it all together like that
23:36:42 <zzo38> kmc: At least the "Einstein" part does, I suppose
23:38:11 <Bike> is the "z" capitalized
23:38:52 <oerjan> Bike: wikipedia always capitalizes.
23:39:02 <zzo38> Bike: In a Wikipedia article title it will be.
23:39:02 <Bike> does it really
23:39:19 <zzo38> (Although there is a command to make it display in lowercase, the filename is capitzlied.)
23:39:23 <Bike> that's gotta get weird for other languages
23:39:46 <zzo38> I agree with Einstein that "the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously".
23:39:58 <oerjan> Bike: well, the english wikipedia. there's a setting and wiktionary goes the other way.
23:41:06 <zzo38> Furthermore, "the Bible [is] a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends".
23:41:32 <kmc> honourable and/or horrifyingly fucked up
23:41:55 <zzo38> Yes, that too I suppose
23:42:17 <zzo38> It is probably also "horrifyingly fucked up"
23:42:38 <kmc> `addquote <zzo38> It is probably also "horrifyingly fucked up"
23:42:42 <HackEgo> 1113) <zzo38> It is probably also "horrifyingly fucked up"
23:45:44 <zzo38> I agree about "His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws", but unlike Einstein I do not believe these laws to be deterministic (although I cannot be sure of this).
23:46:26 <oerjan> maybe it was ruled by wishful thinking until someone made a really lousy wish
23:48:40 <zzo38> oerjan: Sure, but I don't think so. I am thinking that things "outside of the universe" are also outside of spacetime, which also includes time. But I suppose how you say could be an analogy, because, the universe (and multiverse and whatever, if any) must be *something*, otherwise it would be nothing. You could call that a wish if you wanted to, I suppose, because there is nothing else to call it, but that doesn't make it correct.
23:49:08 <fizzie> It is a weird: my tar is reading this "Kingston elite pro 133X" CF card (over an USB 2.0 card reader) at approximately 100 kilobytes per second.
23:49:11 <fizzie> It is sort of a shame, because there is 1.7 gigabytes to read.
23:49:18 <oerjan> i meant what i said entirely literally.
23:49:29 <ais523> fizzie: 17000 seconds isn't /that/ long, is it?
23:49:35 <oerjan> that doesn't mean i think it's true, but that's how i meant it.
23:50:07 <zzo38> Some other book described the existence as: They didn't know if there should be something or nothing, so they toss a coin to see, but that requires that there is a coin to toss, therefore existence is necessary. This is also a kind of analogy, for the similar kind of thing, I suppose.
23:50:42 <oerjan> zzo38: sounds similar to cogito ergo sum
23:50:49 <kmc> `frink 17000 seconds -> days
23:50:49 <fizzie> ais523: It can be, if you wanted to get it done before sleeping but are very tired. (The card reader slurps at least a megabyte or two per second from the SD cards the camera uses, so I don't understand why it is being so slow.)
23:50:58 <HackEgo> 85/432 (approx. 0.19675925925925927)
23:51:04 <kmc> `frink 17000 seconds -> hours
23:51:11 <HackEgo> 85/18 (approx. 4.722222222222222)
23:51:32 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, sort of like that, but that isn't really quite like what I meant, either.
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