←2013-10-18 2013-10-19 2013-10-20→ ↑2013 ↑all
00:03:33 <fizzie> The parallelization machinery involves setting the output path to something with 322 characters.
00:06:34 <Bike> exactly 322 eh
00:07:13 <fizzie> static char scriptBuf[256]; /* buffer for current script arg */
00:07:17 <fizzie> Ye-ah.
00:07:23 <fizzie> scriptBuf[i++] = ch; /* #### ge: should check for overflow of scriptBuf */
00:07:28 <fizzie> You don't say?
00:07:43 <Bike> Oh hey, a classic buffer overflow?
00:07:46 <Bike> imo do some privilege escalatin
00:07:53 <fizzie> From myself to myself?
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00:08:27 <Bike> To whoever wrote this code so you can make their computer cuss at them when it boots up, obviously
00:13:15 <fizzie> I don't know if "ge:" indicates a person.
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02:28:18 <zzo38> Now in Dungeons&Dragons game my familiar grants +3 bonus to my Swim skill if the distance between them does not exceed one mile.
02:28:24 <zzo38> ?messages-loud
02:28:24 <lambdabot> kmc said 2d 4h 54m 53s ago: gcc 4.7.2 doesn't warn me about "if ((x == 4) && (y = 0))" being always false, even with -Wall -Wextra -O3
02:28:58 <zzo38> kmc: O, too bad. Well, I suppose that's OK; such a warning isn't really a requirement.
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02:32:03 <Jafet> #define equals ==
02:34:01 <Bike> https://twitter.com/ibogost/status/391390862061891584/photo/1/large who's ready for this
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02:45:46 <Sgeo> kmc: since I'm too lazy to read a blog post right now: How does Qoppa/Kernel handle mapping a non-applicative operative onto a list?
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02:47:00 <Bike> pretty sure kernel signals an error.
02:47:38 <Sgeo> hm
02:48:09 <Sgeo> I'm thinking that, however Racket calls Qoppa functions, it could probably just behave similarly
02:48:32 <Sgeo> Since there are similar issues involved with trying to get operatives to work in higher-order situations
02:48:51 <Bike> ok, well, kernel says it takes an applicative, which is mostly the same.
02:50:02 <Sgeo> How would Kernel's map be able to tell the difference between applicative operatives and non-applicative operatives?
02:50:13 <Bike> you mean combiners?
02:50:15 <Sgeo> err, ... meant Qoppa, but you didn't say Qoppa, so n/m
02:50:21 <Bike> oh. dunno.
02:50:59 <Bike> The clear solution here is to avoid the unwrap. Just have map do (eval (cons combiner args) ...). it's manly.
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04:23:33 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of familiar?
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04:29:30 <zzo38> Some computers have media playback controls on the keyboard, but I want them on the pedals, I think it would be more useful that way, isn't it?
04:29:52 <kmc> Sgeo: for qoppa the answer is "poorly"
04:29:56 <kmc> in kernel it's a type error, i think
04:29:57 <Bike> 'the' pedals, huh
04:30:05 <kmc> because applicatives and operatives are distinguished
04:30:22 <Sgeo> kmc: well, at least I kind of understand a reason for applicatives not being just operatives in Kernel now
04:30:31 <Sgeo> Oh, you just said it
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04:33:27 <kmc> maybe it's time for me to learn about wavelet trees for real
04:33:44 <Bike> yeah, one of shutt's big concerns was dealing with the (lambda (x) (x y)) problem.
04:34:20 <Sgeo> I never actually read the paper... and it was a while since I read the spec
04:35:01 <Bike> mm, if anyone's around tomorrow remind me to seriously work on my implementation.
04:36:44 <kmc> of?
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04:37:21 <Bike> "kernel"
04:37:24 <kmc> oh
04:37:31 <kmc> you'll have to find another obscure greek letter
04:37:47 <Bike> right now i mostly name it with curses and pink floyd names
04:38:34 <zzo38> Or use other alphabets
04:39:00 <Bike> it's either that or.... an esolang (!!!!)
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04:54:13 <Sgeo> I still need to try to read SRFI-72
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05:43:43 <zzo38> What does "SRFI-72" mean?
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05:46:16 <Bike> scheme request for implementation #72
05:48:38 <zzo38> My brother told me to make up a trainer card for the Pokemon card game, with the effect "The trash can is empty." and then see if some people make up different interpretation for it. I did make up some interpretation for it, like I did for "Goblins cannot reach Nirvana." in Magic: the Gathering (on a global enchantment card named "Nirvana"). Do you?
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05:51:18 <zzo38> Do you interpret these effects?
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06:14:50 <zzo38> `danddreclist 43
06:14:57 <HackEgo> danddreclist 43: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex
06:16:09 <zzo38> Do you like this? This is when we summon the familiar, figure out the ring, store the books and curtain in a spare room, and a few other things.
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06:24:34 <kmc> fizzie: wow just saw the code for 1-indexed arrays in C
06:25:33 <kmc> can I blame MATLAB for that
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06:27:22 <zzo38> What kind of code for 1-indexed arrays in C did you see?
06:29:42 <kmc> <fizzie> somefunction(float *data) { ... float *fp = data-1; for (i=1;i<=nframes;i++) ... fp[i] ... } I honestly thought the "let's make 1-indexed arrays by pointing pointers one before the start" thing was an urban legend or something.
06:30:46 <zzo38> O no I have done it too actually, but rarely.
06:31:11 <kmc> why did you do it?
06:31:22 <zzo38> I do not remember.
06:31:30 <kmc> zzo38: isn't it undefined behavior?
06:31:45 <zzo38> On some computers it is, but on most computers it works.
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06:31:57 <kmc> on all computers it's undefined behavior :<
06:32:05 <kmc> but ok
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06:35:38 <kmc> zzo38: what do you think about the fact that in C, char can be either signed or unsigned
06:36:22 <zzo38> kmc: I think it can be dealt with; some functions always treat it as unsigned anyways.
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06:39:24 <zzo38> (Since some functions always treat it as unsigned, it can be used to sort big-endian numbers, for example.)
06:40:46 <kmc> int counts[256]; void count(char *p) { for (; *p; p++) counts[*p]++; }
06:40:48 <kmc> best vuln ever
06:41:19 <zzo38> I think GCC might warn if you do that; I think I saw such a warning once.
06:41:28 <kmc> yeah, it warns about char as an array index
06:41:42 <kmc> zzo38: it's fun to write an exploit for such a vuln
06:42:33 <kmc> this was the occasion on which I had to write shellcode where 2 out of every 4 bytes are 00 00
06:42:42 <kmc> or code to jump to shellcode anyway
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06:44:49 <Jafet> I still can't figure out how to write a complete main() in ascii
06:45:03 <Jafet> Both ret and syscall are non-printable
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06:48:59 <zzo38> When writing codes that can take untrusted input into higher privilege codes I am always being much more careful than that.
06:49:54 <Jafet> `run echo $'const char main[] = "AXAYAZA[A\\ATX-pppp-0```- ///P^VTXH10XP4>40PZ414>P_\x0f\x05XATASARAQAP\xc3Hello, world!\n";' > hello.c && cat hello.c
06:49:58 <HackEgo> const char main[] = "AXAYAZA[A\ATX-pppp-0```- ///P^VTXH10XP4>40PZ414>P_XATASARAQAPHello, world! \ ";
06:50:14 <Jafet> `run gcc hello.c -o hello && ./hello
06:50:16 <HackEgo> hello.c:1:21: warning: missing terminating " character \ hello.c:1: error: missing terminating " character \ hello.c:2:1: warning: missing terminating " character \ hello.c:2: error: missing terminating " character \ hello.c:2: error: expected expression at end of input
06:50:50 <zzo38> Internet Quiz Engine is one such program; it has no buffer overflows because it has no buffers; everything is done one at a time. It doesn't allocate memory dynamically either. Other things are also done to improve the security; IQE isn't Turing complete, and the upload service performs some checks on it too.
06:50:55 <Jafet> `run gcc hello.c -o hello && ./hello
06:51:03 <HackEgo> Hello, world!
06:52:45 <zzo38> And then there is also the operating system security to avoid a few things in case something else goes wrong.
06:53:15 <kmc> well on AMD64 Linux there are SYSCALL instructions in known locations, specifically within the legacy vsyscall page
06:53:26 <kmc> the addresses are not ASCII but you can probably compute them
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06:53:47 <kmc> the other solution would be self-modifying code but rwx pages are hard to come by these days
06:55:10 <Jafet> `run readelf -e hello | fgrep -A1 .plt
06:55:12 <zzo38> I have sometimes used a few self-modifying codes.
06:55:13 <HackEgo> ​ [11] .rela.plt RELA 0000000000400358 00000358 \ 0000000000000018 0000000000000018 A 6 13 8 \ -- \ [13] .plt PROGBITS 0000000000400388 00000388 \ 0000000000000020 0000000000000010 AX 0 0 4 \ -- \ [24] .got.plt PROGBITS 0000000000600860
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06:56:18 <zzo38> Does Linux have anything like DOS .COM programs?
06:57:09 <kmc> the simplest executable format that Linux supports natively is a.out
06:57:59 <Jafet> Is the format really named a.out
06:58:01 <Jafet> (it is)
06:58:39 <kmc> you could probably make a binfmt_misc rule that runs any file marked executable as raw machine code
06:58:42 <kmc> that would be fun
06:59:20 <Jafet> Run any file marked executable as shell script
07:00:23 <zzo38> Well, DOS .COM involves the operating system setting up some things automatically and then it just executes the program loaded in the allocated segment. Very simple and reasonable.
07:01:02 <zzo38> I have once written a file called PALETTE.COM which takes a drive letter on the command-line parameter and an octal number, and uses that to program the colors of the screen.
07:01:35 <zzo38> (Parsing drive letters and file specifications is one thing DOS will automatically do when loading .COM programs.)
07:03:30 <zzo38> I have once looked at a BASIC compiler into .COM; it has some unusual features, one is that it completely ignores parentheses (and treats them as spaces), which can cause many problems.
07:06:17 <kmc> that's quite an unusual feature indeed
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07:06:54 <kmc> one might even go so far as to call it a bug
07:06:54 <zzo38> I think it also ignored commas in the same way.
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07:08:45 <zzo38> This includes parentheses and commas for function calls, and since some function calls can take varying number of arguments, it can cause ambiguities.
07:11:45 <zzo38> In a mathematical description I wrote yesterday, I used a type I called "enum", which means a set of unique values deriving Eq (and only Eq). And then the value of that type is used as a type, too (for example: F : enum; V : enum: C : F -> set V; ...). Is there something similar in any version of Haskell?
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07:14:36 <zzo38> Actually I was writing a mathematical description of a puzzle game. A problem is defined as (F : enum, V : enum, C : F -> set V, N_F : F -> nat, N_V : V -> nat), and a solution to a problem is (S : V -> nat) where forall x in V. S(X) <= N_V(x), and forall f in F. N_F(f) = sum of S(x) for x in C(f).
07:14:56 <zzo38> Does this system have a name already?
07:16:32 <zzo38> Do you know anything about this? I defined it as a generalization of a different game from some book.
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07:19:28 <zzo38> Are you able to figure this out?
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07:19:41 <fizzie> kmc: I think you can indeed blame MATLAB, I'm sure that's where the developers got the habit of 1-based indexing.
07:20:30 <zzo38> fizzie: It isn't only MATLAB that uses 1-based indexing, though. BASIC can use whatever numbers you want for indexing.
07:21:22 <fizzie> And I think I saw a binfmt_misc for ".com-like" programs.
07:22:36 <kmc> zzo38: so can perl
07:23:31 <zzo38> kmc: OK. (I am not so good at Perl)
07:23:41 <fizzie> That's all true, but there's a statistical likelihood of HTK developers being MATLAB users. (Could be wrong.)
07:24:05 <fizzie> Perl's array index base modifier is common for all arrays, though.
07:24:35 <fizzie> BASIC (and maybe Pascal?) can specify dimensions per-array, IIRC.
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07:25:03 <zzo38> fizzie: That isn't so good. BASIC defines it individually per array (although you can set a default using the OPTION BASE command), which is a better way, I think. Yes I do think Pascal can do it too.
07:25:05 <fizzie> (If not Pascal, then there's at least some others with the feature.)
07:25:10 <fizzie> Okays.
07:25:37 <zzo38> I have books of two prettyprinted Pascal programs, so I know some things about it.
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07:27:44 <zzo38> Can you figure out what game I was generalizing, or if this generalized form has another name already, or if I made any mistakes in this mathematical description of it, or other things you can figure of it, or etc?
07:29:05 <zzo38> Is there SoC for DVD video player? I think I saw a TV set that seems to use such a thing (the SoC hypothesis would explain the way some of its functions work).
07:29:51 <kmc> tv on a chip
07:29:58 <kmc> i saw such a thing at argo electronics once, I think
07:30:10 <kmc> http://makezine.com/2008/02/25/argo-electronics-surplus/
07:30:29 <zzo38> I think in this case it was only the DVD function that uses a separate SoC from the rest of the TV, though.
07:30:53 <kmc> yeah what i saw was an analog tv on a chip from the 80s
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07:34:23 <fizzie> Oh, another HTK thing; this is what compiling it looks like: http://sprunge.us/VjUG (just an extract)
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07:36:51 <fizzie> negs = (int)up_hmm->hook+1; up_hmm->hook = (void *)negs;
07:36:58 <fizzie> It's full of "let's put an int in a pointer", too.
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07:41:14 <fizzie> Here's one of the "set but not used", and while it may be correct, it sure looks like a 'cb'-to-'cn' typo: http://sprunge.us/cdPR
07:41:30 <fizzie> I'm frankly surprised this code ever gets any correct results.
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07:59:54 <zzo38> In this book, the games "Number Place" and "Skyscrapers" both involve Latin squares. Perhaps they could be combined! (The rules for the combined game are obvious, but I don't know if there are any such puzzles.)
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08:23:43 <Jafet> For some reason this system leaves the stack executable by default, yet there seems to be no way to jump to it in ascii.
08:24:06 <Jafet> What kind of system has an executable stack but not executable plt, anyway.
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08:50:30 <kmc> HFBLat.c: In function ‘SetCorrectnessAsError’:
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08:58:25 <fizzie> "221 2.7.0 Error: I can break rules, too. Goodbye." -- Postfix, if you forget the DATA command and go directly to "From: whoever@whatever" when doing some SMTP testing.
08:59:02 <fizzie> I assume it's some sort of a spambot detection scheme. (If you say something else wrong, it's usually "502 5.5.2 Error: command not recognized" instead.)
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09:12:28 <FreeFull> fizzie: It also could be a joke
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09:40:07 <fizzie> Huh, "Mr. 4679" (the port-knocker) is back at it *again*.
09:40:37 <fizzie> I don't think I can be bothered to send a third abuse@ email because it seems to do nothing except possibly a temporary disconnect.
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10:56:05 <Taneb> Do petrol stations sell milk
10:59:08 <Phantom_Hoover> who knows
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10:59:20 <Phantom_Hoover> why are you going to a petrol station though
10:59:59 <Taneb> It's closer than the supermarket
11:00:13 <olsner> only petrol stations that sell milk sell milk
11:00:25 <Taneb> olsner, I'm pretty sure that statement is tautologous
11:00:46 <Taneb> Although it does suggest eg supermarkets and dairies do not sell milk
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11:09:52 <Taneb> I guess the easiest way to find out if they sell milk is to walk over and see
11:12:13 <olsner> maybe you can call them and ask?
11:12:31 <Taneb> I don't have any credit on my phone
11:12:50 <Taneb> And it's almost literally next door
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11:19:05 <Koen_> Taneb: I know many petrol stations sell coffee, htht
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11:21:58 <Taneb> Koen_, I don't drink coffee
11:22:02 <Taneb> I drink nothing but milk
11:22:08 <Koen_> that's good
11:22:12 <Taneb> And some other things
11:22:13 <Koen_> milk is good
11:22:18 <Taneb> But probably more milk than average
11:22:25 <Koen_> are you dutch?
11:22:34 <Taneb> I am not
11:22:39 <Taneb> Why do you ask?
11:22:58 <Koen_> everytime people realize how much milk I drink, they ask me if I'm dutch
11:23:23 <Taneb> Do the dutch drink a lot of milk?
11:24:15 <Koen_> apparently
11:24:25 <Taneb> Huh
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12:26:43 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, talk me through the military setup in the fort?
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12:27:52 <Phantom_Hoover> it should run itself (well, once you stitch the soldiers back together again)
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12:28:52 <Phantom_Hoover> they're set to train at all times; the only thing you should need to do once they recover is forge the rest of their armour
12:28:54 <Taneb> Is there a hospital?
12:29:01 <Phantom_Hoover> they'll put it on of their own accord; and no, there is not
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12:33:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, oh, and make sure to appoint a new manager
12:34:02 <Phantom_Hoover> and bookkeeper
12:34:07 <Taneb> Right
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12:34:50 <Phantom_Hoover> and chief medical dorf!
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13:19:05 <Taneb> Basic healthcare is going
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13:38:38 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, elves have arrived
13:38:49 <Phantom_Hoover> kill them allll
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13:45:09 <Taneb> We lost a hammerdwarf in an ambush :(
13:48:49 <Taneb> Another ambush is happening that seems to be deadlier
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14:05:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, noooo
14:06:02 <Phantom_Hoover> (there was at least one other dorf with weapons skills, more may have migrated)
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17:25:40 <Taneb> @tell Phantom_Hoover siege killed two soldiers :(
17:25:40 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:25:54 <Taneb> @ask Phantom_Hoover This is why trading is bad!
17:25:54 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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18:00:04 <oerjan> <Bike> Anyway. Does anyone know of a mathematician named Holden. Probably early 20th century, worked in analysis. <-- technically yes, although probably not the one you want :P
18:00:59 <oerjan> (he work{s,ed} at the university here, and also was my previous next door neighbor.)
18:03:12 * oerjan swats Bike for being hideously idle -----###
18:03:58 <olsner> oh what a hideous way to idle
18:04:04 <oerjan> hm he has a page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helge_Holden
18:12:15 <oerjan> @tell Bike See your backscroll and/or the logs.
18:12:15 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
18:14:01 <oerjan> hm are there clients that display nicks differently if they've been idle for a long time?
18:14:22 <oerjan> (not that i'd switch to one, but hypothetically)
18:14:43 <oerjan> and of course automatic reconnections ruin that anyway.
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18:15:10 <zzo38> You can use WHOIS command at least
18:15:30 <zzo38> So try that
18:16:04 <oerjan> zzo38: i use that, but i always keep forgetting to do so until _after_ i've spoken to people.
18:16:28 <oerjan> and also, as i said, it doesn't help with automatic reconnections, which reset the timer.
18:16:41 <zzo38> OK
18:17:31 <zzo38> I usually just type a message anyways regardless of they are idle or even not connected at all; the channel is logged.
18:18:00 <oerjan> yes, but i'm too paranoid to trust people to check if they've been spoken to. :(
18:19:13 <oerjan> people have all kinds of different habits.
18:19:40 <zzo38> I don't really trust everyone either, but I do it anyways just in case, and then later when they might be on if they didn't respond already I can reask the question.
18:19:59 <oerjan> mhm
18:20:06 <zzo38> It also means that other people can answer if they have any answer, even if not the people being asked.
18:40:27 <oerjan> <Taneb> Do petrol stations sell milk <-- i'm pretty sure it happens.
18:41:18 <oerjan> <Taneb> Koen_, I don't drink coffee
18:41:34 <oerjan> well you could ask for coffee with milk, without the coffee.
18:41:52 <oerjan> i'm sure that should work.
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18:46:14 <Taneb> oerjan, yeah, they did sell milk
18:51:05 <oerjan> yay!
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18:51:20 <oerjan> it's probably more expensive than the supermarket, though.
18:51:38 <Taneb> Yeah, it was
18:51:52 <Taneb> But I was a) really hungry and b) ill
18:51:59 <Taneb> So I couldn't be bothered to walk to the supermarket
18:51:59 <oerjan> a bad combination.
18:52:21 <oerjan> at least you weren't a zombie. i assume.
18:52:36 <Taneb> I cannot recall being a zombie
18:54:05 <oerjan> i think that's usually a permanent thing.
18:57:00 <zzo38> What puzzle games are based on Latin squares other than the ones I konw?
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19:00:40 <oerjan> zzo38: other than the ones you mentioned earlier, there's sudoku of course.
19:01:15 <zzo38> Well, the Number Place game I mentioned is a generalization of sudoku.
19:01:20 <oerjan> oh.
19:01:39 <oerjan> i don't recall that game.
19:03:19 <oerjan> simon tatham's puzzles also has Keen, otherwise known as KenKen.
19:03:40 <zzo38> Ah, yes, I have read about KenKen too I think.
19:04:23 <zzo38> The rules of "Number Place": You are given a grid where each cell belongs to a zone. Some cells also have symbols filled in. Fill in the rest of the cells to make up a Latin square such that each zone also contains exactly one of each symbol.
19:05:33 <oerjan> it has Singles, otherwise known as Hitori, which isn't quite a latin square but does require you to blot out enough parts of it that the rest is consistent with one.
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19:07:35 <oerjan> towers is probably what you call skyscrapers.
19:08:31 <zzo38> Rules of "Skyscrapers": You are given a grid, and each row or column heading may have a number at neither, one, or both ends. Make a Latin square (note: the set of symbols in this game must be ordered) such that the number in the heading is equal to the length of the list made by starting at that end, going through the row/column and deleting any symbol that is less than a previous symbol.
19:08:36 <oerjan> and Unequal, otherwise known as Futoshiki also requires a latin square.
19:09:09 <zzo38> You say towers is probably what I call skyscrapers, now that I wrote the rules, you can know if that is it or not?
19:10:43 <oerjan> yes, that's equivalent afaict. Towers sometimes has a few cells filled in in addition to the numbers outside.
19:12:07 <oerjan> that's the ones i could find in that collection that look latin square related.
19:12:31 <zzo38> Other games in this book I have do not involve Latin squares, but there are many games in there.
19:13:16 <oerjan> i recall seeing at least futoshiki in a newspaper here. and of course plenty of sudokus.
19:14:35 <oerjan> and there's killer sudoku.
19:14:58 <oerjan> (which is also in the collection as an option to ordinary sudoku ("solo"))
19:15:06 <zzo38> In "Dominoes", you are given a grid filled in with symbols and must split it into dominoes (areas of two cells which are orthogonally adjacent), such that no domino contains an identical (unordered) pair of symbols to any other domino. Another rule of this is that every diagram has a unique solution (it can help to solve them, as I have figured out).
19:15:48 <oerjan> that's also in tatham's collection as "dominosa".
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19:16:52 <oerjan> i always feel like i'm cheating when i use the fact that the solution is unique.
19:17:49 <zzo38> Why do you? That is actually the only game in this book that mentions that in the rules, so I do use it in only this game.
19:17:55 <oerjan> heh
19:18:22 <zzo38> (This book does not discuss strategies for solving any of these puzzles; only the rules are specified.)
19:18:25 <Sgeo> zzo38: do you understand hygienic macros?
19:18:36 <zzo38> Sgeo: Kind of.
19:18:47 <oerjan> i think some of tatham's puzzles have an option to allow you to request non-unique solution puzzles.
19:19:01 * Sgeo is hoping for someone to ask for help when trying to understand the difference between SRFI-72 and Racket's model
19:19:23 <zzo38> Sgeo: I don't understand SRFI-72 or Racket, though.
19:19:57 <zzo38> The mathematical description I provided yesterday night (in my timezone) is for a generalization of one of the games in this book I have.
19:21:00 <zzo38> I intended to make the generalization of the game in this book called "Mineswweeper"; did you find any mistake in the one I did?
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20:16:01 <grupo5-29> hola
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20:16:22 <Bike> yo
20:17:14 <grupo5-29> hola amor como estas
20:17:25 <Bike> oerjan: interesting that "early 20th century" apparently encompasses a guy born in '56 :p
20:18:15 <grupo5-29> ok
20:18:31 <grupo5-29> ´what are you
20:18:56 <grupo5-29> ._.
20:19:31 <zzo38> This is a problem I wrote on a paper to pose to the NPCs of a D&D game, to test their quality of thinking in sideways and other ways: The king of a far away city is allergic to beholders and wants to destroy all of them in this city. However, only half of them have done anything wrong. Identify the problem.
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20:20:51 <Bike> `rwelcome grupo5-29
20:20:55 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rwelcome: not found
20:20:55 <Bike> `rwlcome grupo5-29
20:20:56 <zzo38> (Hint: "Identify the problem" is a key phrase.)
20:20:58 <HackEgo> grupo5-29: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
20:21:01 <grupo5-29> io
20:21:02 <grupo5-29> fgokgojh´
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20:23:03 <oerjan> Bike: i ignored that part of your question
20:23:12 <Bike> you jerk!
20:23:35 <grupo5-29> español??????
20:23:38 <oerjan> `bienvenido grupo5-29
20:23:41 <HackEgo> grupo5-29: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.)
20:24:35 <oerjan> Bike: `rwelcome got renamed. twice.
20:24:53 <zzo38> oerjan: Why?
20:25:17 <Bike> rid ic u lous
20:25:44 <grupo5-29> que te pica
20:25:52 <oerjan> zzo38: well one of them was me trying to think of a punny name (that's `ozcome). the other was probably someone not finding `rwelcome. um those might be related, come to think of it :P
20:34:03 <kmc> `run bienvenido grupo5-29 | rainwords
20:34:07 <HackEgo> grupo5-29: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki:
20:34:39 <zzo38> You could create links (does the hg filesystem support that?)
20:35:16 <oerjan> unlike rainbow, rainwords doesn't check whether the color codes fit in the line.
20:36:04 <FireFly> `ls bin/*come
20:36:05 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access bin/*come: No such file or directory
20:36:14 <FireFly> Umm
20:36:29 <FireFly> `which welcome
20:36:30 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/welcome
20:36:38 <FireFly> `pwd
20:36:40 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv
20:36:45 <FireFly> Oh, duh.
20:36:48 <FireFly> `run ls bin/*come
20:36:49 <HackEgo> bin/ozcome \ bin/relcome \ bin/rwlcome \ bin/welcome \ bin/welcome \ bin/wercome
20:37:51 <fizzie> Interesting sorting.
20:37:59 <fizzie> Apparently control characters don't count.
20:38:16 <oerjan> blame the new zealanders.
20:38:55 <NihilistDandy> `ozcome
20:38:57 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
20:39:10 <oerjan> oh hm
20:39:29 <oerjan> oh right.
20:39:52 <oerjan> it's just the extra stuff in the spanish pushing it over.
20:40:02 <fizzie> That's still some redundancy w.r.t. ozcome/rwlcome, right?
20:40:09 <oerjan> yes.
20:40:34 <oerjan> `run mv bin/rw{,e}lcome
20:40:37 <HackEgo> No output.
20:41:08 <oerjan> at least use the old name
20:41:33 <NihilistDandy> `wercome
20:41:36 <HackEgo> ​エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。(他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ)
20:41:44 <NihilistDandy> That was exactly what I imagined it would be
20:43:12 <oerjan> a logical naming scheme.
20:45:03 <FireFly> wercome is my new favourite welcome
20:51:19 <oerjan> i think that might be a bad idea. not sure whether it gets worse or better with actual japanese.
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20:54:38 <NihilistDandy> `youkoso
20:54:39 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: youkoso: not found
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21:27:35 <zzo38> I think in the "Black-C" that I have written about, you might make a hook for program starting like: typedef struct { inline void "create"(void) { ... } } Start; static const Start ex_start;
21:28:10 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of way?
21:31:49 <zzo38> The "create" is an operator overloader. There are others, although the set of possible operator overloaders is different from C++.
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21:40:46 <grupo5-29> hello
21:41:00 <NihilistDandy> Hello
21:41:47 <grupo5-29> hablas español
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21:47:01 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, I've finished my year
21:47:48 <oerjan> that was fast, i thought you just entered university
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21:49:25 <Taneb> oerjan, hang on
21:49:30 <Taneb> What year is it?
21:50:00 <Phantom_Hoover> 1994
21:50:08 <Taneb> Woah
21:50:17 <Taneb> It worked
21:50:34 <Phantom_Hoover> anyway i see you continue to ruin my GLORIOUS MILITARY
21:50:50 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, some of them are still alive
21:50:51 <oerjan> should have gone further back, 1994 was the year the world really started going downhill again.
21:51:12 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, one of them has to walk with a crutch but he got injured on your watch
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21:52:21 <Phantom_Hoover> probably this is still your fautl
21:52:23 <Phantom_Hoover> *fault
21:53:00 <Taneb> Also I set up a crossbow squad but they don't seem to train
21:54:20 <Phantom_Hoover> crossbow squads are like that
21:57:06 <oerjan> they only work at cross purposes.
22:06:01 <NihilistDandy> What game is #esoteric playing now?
22:06:22 <zzo38> I want to play Pokemon Card.
22:06:34 <NihilistDandy> I'll be Shiny Charizard
22:06:44 * NihilistDandy sits mutely, reflecting light
22:07:03 <zzo38> Of what level?
22:08:21 <NihilistDandy> 76
22:10:12 <Phantom_Hoover> NihilistDandy, dwarf fortress
22:10:13 <Phantom_Hoover> want in
22:10:21 <Phantom_Hoover> it doesn't matter if you haven't played
22:10:39 <NihilistDandy> I may. Last I remembered, the dwarf named after me was some kind of legendary stonecarver
22:10:56 <NihilistDandy> But that was months ago
22:11:06 <Phantom_Hoover> it was over a year, i think
22:11:26 * NihilistDandy is bad at time
22:11:42 <Phantom_Hoover> thus far neither me nor Taneb have named the dorfs though
22:12:29 <Taneb> Oh yeah, we should totally do that
22:13:39 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: you should give the name NihilistDandy to a new stone carver whose creativity is crippled by his obsessive comparison of himself to his famous forefather.
22:13:53 <NihilistDandy> ^
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22:18:05 <Taneb> ...that neither seems particularly nihilist nor dandy
22:19:48 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/338e01ac78e86fc9c14ff11fc2f30a2b/tumblr_msfpeiZuL71sydj82o10_r1_1280.jpg bye
22:21:50 <oerjan> i think i saw something about a virus demanding ransom for disk contents. and that no one had managed to get them back without paying. (i assume backups were excepted. also i only read the headline or so.)
22:21:55 <^v> Bike, <3
22:23:22 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, ah, so you encrypt stuff and then have people pay for the key?
22:23:37 <Bike> yeah, it's called cryptovirology.
22:23:47 <lexande> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CryptoLocker
22:23:49 <Bike> which is a dumb name, i mean, but
22:25:10 <elliott> haha, you can pay through bitcoin
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23:12:19 <variable> oerjan: that is very old
23:12:29 <variable> the very first randomware
23:12:39 <variable> were scams and never actually encrypted your stuff
23:12:54 <variable> the new ones actually do encrypt it but may not give you your key
23:12:55 <variable> :)
23:13:56 <oerjan> variable: um why do you think it's very old, i saw it a few weeks ago.
23:14:52 <oerjan> also, the wikipedia one clearly _does_ decrypt again on payment.
23:15:20 <oerjan> it only makes sense from a business standpoint.
23:15:46 <variable> oerjan: not that specific virus: the idea of ransomware
23:16:07 <variable> oerjan: the funniest one I saw did give you a key to decrypt
23:16:14 <variable> but implemented the crypto wrong so the key was unusable
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23:51:22 <quintopia> question for the englishters and canucks: what is the name for the quantity measuring the number of kilometers a vehicle can travel on a liter of gas
23:52:09 <ais523> quintopia: in England we use miles for distances on the roads
23:52:40 <ais523> so we'd use "mileage" for the distance in miles, and don't have a term for the distance in kilometers (although the general term is "range", which you see/hear used occasionally no matter which units it's in)
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23:57:37 <zzo38> Here in Canada we use kilometres but I don't know what terms are used; I think "km/L" may sometimes be used.
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23:59:25 <fizzie> In Finland: liters per a hundred kilometers, for some reason.
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