00:00:11 <kmc> wow sprint will buy back my old phone for a whole FIVE DOLLARS!
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00:02:02 <Fiora> kmc is now a rich man
00:02:48 <Jafet> Don't spent it all at once
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00:08:35 <kmc> they should offer a sandwich instead
00:12:05 <Bike> sell it to someone for twenty of the earth dollars
00:12:16 <kmc> probably send it off to the third world to be melted down by children for trace rare metals
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00:15:40 <Jafet> Mail that sandwich to a landfill urchin in manila
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00:29:35 <Phantom_Hoover> woo youtube now has a useless navigation bar pinned to the top of the window
00:30:03 <Phantom_Hoover> why did google hire a bunch of total incompetents to redesign all their UIs?
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00:31:09 <oerjan> hm did anyone make a navigation bar blocker yet
00:31:51 <Phantom_Hoover> it's two small icons at the top-left and top-right corners, the rest of the bar is just blank
00:32:15 <Jafet> oerjan inadvertently begins the navigation bar arms race
00:32:48 <Phantom_Hoover> you need to actually click those icons to bring up the menus, because at some point google decided putting tools one click away was unacceptably simple
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00:34:19 <Jafet> Maybe you'd appreciate it more if you upgraded to a smaller screen
00:39:13 <Sgeo> "It stays on top and works well with Excel."
00:39:17 <Sgeo> (about a desktop calculator)
00:39:27 <Sgeo> http://www.sheepfriends.com/index-page=kelly.html
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00:42:05 <Sgeo> Is klisp considered a good implementation?
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01:07:15 <ion> oerjan: I never claimed it was a Thue-Morse.
01:12:38 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched ...
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01:13:16 <oerjan> > let f '0' = "01"; f '1' = "10" in fix $ (f =<<) . ('0':)
01:13:17 <lambdabot> "01011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001...
01:19:26 <trout> what does fix() do ?
01:22:57 <oerjan> > let f '0' = "01"; f '1' = "10" in drop 2 . fix $ (1':) . tail . (f =<<)
01:22:58 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:53: parse error on input `:'
01:23:07 <oerjan> > let f '0' = "01"; f '1' = "10" in drop 2 . fix $ ('1':) . tail . (f =<<)
01:23:08 <lambdabot> "01011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001...
01:23:59 <oerjan> ion: it's actually the inversed TM sequence minus the first two digits :)
01:28:30 <kmc> the Moose-Thor sequence
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01:39:19 <ion> oerjan: heh
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01:41:24 <ion> https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/d5d3dc850933
01:43:06 <kmc> hey shachaf can we use ~wavelet trees~ to support efficient codepoint-based indexing into UTF-8 strings
01:45:31 <ion> :-D:-D:-D http://www.sateilykontrolli.fi/suojakotelot/dect-wlan-box.html http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sateilykontrolli.fi%2Fsuojakotelot%2Fdect-wlan-box.html&act=url
01:52:14 <Sgeo> Should I attempt to write $syntax-rule for Kernel?
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02:31:29 <Sgeo> "SO IT CAN'T USE #F AS AN OUT-OF-BAND OBJECT"
02:32:46 <Sgeo> Although I do agree with the blogger that assoc could have a better choice of indicating failure
02:46:54 <Sgeo> kmc: I do prefer your order of arguments to eval (env first) over Kernel's, I think
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04:54:39 <Sgeo> I think I discovered a violation of Kernel philosophy in Kernel
04:55:40 <Sgeo> How does the evaluator work? It does one thing on pairs, another thing on symbols... and every other type is self-evaluating?
04:55:59 <shachaf> kmc: hmm, what do you mean
04:56:08 <Bike> what part of the philosophy does that violate
04:56:25 <Sgeo> So, that implies there's no user-accessible way to make a type that evaluates to something other than itself
04:56:57 <shachaf> keeping the string in memory as-is and making an additional structure for indexing it, or representing it differently, or what
04:57:41 <Sgeo> "Programmer-defined facilities should be able to duplicate all the capabilities and properties of built-in facilities."
04:57:42 <Bike> heh, that's kind of what my implementation is about doing, nto that i give a fuck about 'philosophy'.
04:57:53 <Bike> Sgeo: well you can write your own evaluator.
04:59:12 <Sgeo> I don't know if that really qualifies as fixing the problem
04:59:31 <Sgeo> Unless custom evaluators can take the place of the native one easily? Even then, seems a bit iffy
04:59:59 <Bike> well, i mean, what's the "built-in facility" here.
05:00:27 <Bike> if i understand what you're saying correctly you could say that it should be possible to make types that have something else for a 'car'.
05:10:16 <Sgeo> I don't think there's a facility for defining equal? on encapsulated types either
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05:23:53 <Sgeo> Maybe '(a b c) should be a synonym for (list a b c)
05:24:02 <Sgeo> Although that would certainly confuse most Lisp programmers
05:24:44 <Sgeo> That sort of thing is probably addressed in a rationale somewhere
05:26:24 <Bike> i thin they sort of are equal
05:27:17 <Sgeo> So apply-continuation passes control to the continuation normally, and the applicative formed by continuation->applicative passes control to its continuation abnormally, iiuc. That seems like it's likely to confuse
05:28:38 <elliott> Bike: '(a b c) is (list 'a 'b 'c)
05:29:41 <Bike> Oh, wait, quoted lists are probably specified to be immutable.
05:29:48 <Bike> elliott: oh. right. sgeo what the heck.
05:30:05 <Sgeo> Hmm, I think I read extend-continuation and thought it was apply-continuation
05:30:23 <Bike> kernel's continuations are weird as hell imo
05:31:04 <Sgeo> My only question is if delimited continuations can be built on top of them sanely (i.e. not in the leaky "add a mutable cell" way)
05:31:11 <elliott> Bike: he was making a suggestion, I think
05:31:48 <Bike> elliott: yes but it's a weird one.
05:32:30 <Sgeo> guard-continuation would become less verbose, and there would be less temptation to make it an operative $guard-continuation
05:39:40 <Sgeo> I also want to know if something similar to CL-style restarts can be achieved
05:40:08 <Bike> with continuations?
05:40:21 <Bike> because, like, obviously yes.
05:40:46 <Sgeo> There are possibilities for limitations to get introduced
05:41:14 <Sgeo> In Racket, you can't just resume from a (raise blah) unless the code before it co-operates to provide a continuation
05:41:49 <Sgeo> Could make a raise-resumable ofc, but that does nothing to resume at an exception thrown by code not supportive of this facility
05:42:36 <Bike> well you don't need anything continuationy for restarts anyway. just lexical escapes.
05:45:00 <Sgeo> Without continuations, think you also need dynamically-scoped variables via some mechanism?
05:45:50 <Bike> they don't need to be variables, just some dynamic access
05:45:55 <Bike> you could use globals if you hate life
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05:47:57 <Sgeo> Ok, so apply-continuation does in fact pass it abnormally
05:58:35 <Sgeo> decapsulate is such a fun word
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06:08:38 <Sgeo> "Since before I started klisp, the main hole of the Kernel Report I wanted to address is the fact that there is no way to customize read/write/eval/eq?/equal?, neither for new objects types (encapsulations) nor for primitive types. I always leaned to generic functions/multi-methods as a catch all solution, but as the Report mentions, this is just one possible solution. "
06:09:43 <Bike> it's kind of great how crazy you can make a pretty printer.
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07:17:34 <kmc> it's a piece of cake to make a pretty printer
07:17:53 <kmc> shachaf: uh i dunno it was only half an idea
07:18:31 <kmc> I guess the simple idea is you would just store the bitvector of "is byte n the start of a character" as a succinct set whatever
07:19:50 <kmc> then you can get the nth character or count the characters up to a byte position
07:20:00 <kmc> but that's not a wavelet tree just the flat thing
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07:32:33 <kmc> so that lets you store UTF-8 and index it quickly by codepoint with only 12.5% + o(n) overhead
07:32:45 <kmc> (space overhead)
07:32:51 <kmc> what I don't know is whether such strings can also be quickly appended, sliced, etc
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08:34:25 <kmc> "Why does the Mercedes S-Class contain gcc, libpcap, SSLeay *and* OpenSSL, dropbear *and* OpenSSH, etc? http://www4.mercedes-benz.com/manual-cars/ba/foss/content/en/assets/FOSS_licences.pdf"
08:35:17 <fizzie> That's a lot of licenses.
08:35:54 <kmc> stupid future
08:36:34 <fizzie> They've managed to use pppd for something too, I see.
08:37:48 <fizzie> "Unicode License 2004" "Unicode License 2008" "Unicode License 2011" "Unicode License 2012" well at least the car has good character set support, presumably.
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09:52:45 <Taneb> First historical computer architectures practical...
09:53:16 <Taneb> Me and my partner are having about as much luck getting started as Babbage did
09:53:41 <fizzie> Sounds like you're striving for historical accuracy, then.
09:54:14 <Taneb> fizzie, we're to use a Java-based analytical engine simulator
09:55:22 <Taneb> Which, to our disgruntion, did not work under Linux
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10:05:18 <fizzie> Write once, run nowhere.
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15:14:39 <shachaf> kmc: Ah, I was wondering whether you meant something like that.
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15:25:05 <Bike> what they said.
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16:28:00 <JWinslow23> How again would I access sound values in Audacity again?
16:28:08 <JWinslow23> I wanna make a 99 Bottles Stackbeat program.
16:29:11 <Koen_> so I met this guy today and now I want to learn Haskell
16:35:15 <JWinslow23> How do we access PCM values in Audacity for use in a Stackbeat program?
16:38:02 <ais523> oh wow, how's this for a broken license statement?: "This material is in the public domain and may be freely used, with attribution given to Rice University. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ "
16:39:37 <elliott> ais523: that probably actually accomplishes what they intend, because it's too ambiguous to release it into the PD but states the exact license to use?
16:39:46 <JWinslow23> Well, I have a 99 Bottles of Beer 8-bit song. How would I convert it to a Stackbeat program?
16:40:12 <ais523> at least, I think any court would find that if attribution were given, it would be acceptable to use it
16:40:25 <ais523> I remember the court case which tested the Artistic License
16:40:31 <ais523> which is really muddled in the way it was written
16:40:49 <ais523> the court case found that the license at least clearly showed a desire for attribution, and thus not giving attribution was illegal
16:40:58 <ais523> (which was enough to decide that particular case)
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16:41:44 <nooodl> JWinslow23: i guess first you convert the audio to 8kHz 8-bit mono PCM
16:41:56 <ais523> it's interesting that the Artistic License has been confirmed to work in court, but not the GPL
16:42:12 <nooodl> you can look probably that up
16:43:06 <nooodl> afterwards it's a matter of writing a stackbeat program that plays that exact audio file, which would be something like
16:45:38 <ais523> even more interestingly, due to a quirk of jurisdiction, it ended up being handled by a patents court rather than a copyright court
16:45:46 <ais523> because a patent had been mentioned earlier on
16:45:46 <nooodl> $0 _0^!A*| _1^!B*| _2^!C*|
16:46:08 <nooodl> where A, B, C... are the bytes from your audio file
16:46:41 <nooodl> (note: this program is going to be huge)
16:47:15 <ais523> doing a 99bob program without using a loop to iterate over the individual bottles is cheating
16:47:19 <ais523> doing it with a for/switch is probably also cheating
16:47:44 <JWinslow23> Well, how to extract bytes from the audio file?
16:48:31 <ais523> on Linux, use od -t x1 filename
16:48:48 <ais523> (change the x to d for decimal)
16:48:56 <nooodl> actually just write a script that reads the file prints "_{time}^!{sample}*|" a bunch of times to generate your code
16:49:24 <ais523> yeah, that'd be better than doing it by hand
16:50:12 <JWinslow23> OK, I got the hex code. From what point should I start?
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16:54:06 <ais523> you need a programming language to write it in
16:54:17 <ais523> you could do it in brainfuck, actually
16:54:29 <ais523> although the conversion to decimal would be a pain
16:55:08 <nooodl> a verse of "99 bottles" takes about 8 seconds to sing. so that's (8000 * 8 bits/sec) * (8 seconds) * 99 = 6.043 MB (for 13.2 minutes of audio)
16:55:27 <ais523> also, bleh, this paper is old enough to a say "associate" rather than "associative"
16:55:40 <ais523> you could come up with some sort of compression scheme to make it smaller
16:57:23 <ais523> hmm, this entire conversation sounds like "I want to write a program but I don't know how to program"
16:57:54 <ais523> well you wouldn't use stackbeat to write the conversion scripe
16:58:02 <ais523> just like programs to generate C don't have to be written in C
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16:58:10 <ais523> (although they usually are, as it happens)
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16:58:39 <ais523> I don't know stackbeat, but you could probably make the program shorter by using some sort of array
16:58:43 <ais523> if that exists in the language
16:58:48 <ais523> is it a "real" language or an esolang?
16:59:50 <ais523> why does that thing not have loops?
17:00:04 <ais523> apart from the implicit one
17:00:29 * FireFly made a thing a long time ago with only a single implicit loop
17:00:46 <nooodl> you could compress it by doing something like,
17:01:17 <nooodl> if t mod (length of a verse) = (index of first "bottles of beer" sample), output (first "bottles of beer" sample)
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17:01:38 <ais523> hmm, it doesn't say the size of the stack elements
17:01:50 <ais523> if they're bignum, you could just push the entire song as one big number
17:02:05 <ais523> then shift by an amount depending on the timestamp, and do modulo to get at the byte you want
17:02:23 <ais523> "This top value is reduced to just one byte and sent to audio output."
17:02:25 <ais523> possibly don't even need the mod
17:03:13 <ais523> I guess it's using floats to store the individual stack elements
17:03:16 <ais523> due to being written in JS
17:03:38 <JWinslow23> If only the thing had the same notation as that MIDI notation.
17:04:19 <nooodl> JWinslow23: imagine a really long number in binary: [... dddddddd cccccccc bbbbbbbb aaaaaaaa] where aaaaaaaa are the 8 bits of the first sample, bbbbbbbb are the 8 bits of the second one, etc.
17:05:17 <nooodl> you just push that number and bitshift it right by (8 * time). for example if time == 2, it'll become [... ffffffff eeeeeeee dddddddd cccccccc] because you shift the 16 least significant bits away
17:05:47 <nooodl> then the number gets reduced to a single byte by taking the lowest 8 bits which are cccccccc
17:06:08 <JWinslow23> And the value of cccccccc gets popped?
17:06:58 <nooodl> yeah. i think after each computation, stackbeat just pops the top value off the stack and outputs that, discarding anything else on it
17:07:05 <ais523> you can't fit a 6MB number into a float, though, so the JS interps wouldn't work
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17:08:58 <myname> stackbeat looks really awesome
17:09:36 <nooodl> so in stackbeat it'd be: (really long number) #8*>
17:09:50 <ais523> nooodl: should be an underscore in there
17:09:55 <nooodl> it's about 34.8 million digits in decimal
17:09:56 <ais523> I think your client changed it to an underline, though
17:10:10 <nooodl> ais523: the time is pushed first isn't it? i have # (swap) in there
17:10:17 <ais523> nooodl: there are no underscores in what you sent
17:10:23 <nooodl> "the stack is initialized with the timestamp value on the top"
17:10:28 <ais523> you're using the initial value
17:10:40 <ais523> and relying on the fact that the number, though really really big, is just one element
17:10:55 <ais523> hmm… with bignum and some sort of loop, stackbeat would be TC
17:11:27 <nooodl> needs to be a stackbeat variant that takes audio input too
17:11:50 <nooodl> and then you can program audio filters in it!!
17:12:21 <mroman> svn: Server sent unexpected return value (405 Not Allowed) in response to OPTIONS request for 'http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/svn/esofiles'
17:12:24 <mroman> 2013-10-24 06:30:06 URL:http://esolangs.org/dump/esolang.xml.gz [30756757/30756757] -> "esolang.xml.gz" [1]
17:12:33 <JWinslow23> If you want to tamper with my 99 bottles file, here it is on Mediafire. http://www.mediafire.com/?uaulzh1509394pz
17:12:51 <mroman> because something is not allowed :)
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17:14:17 <myname> the 42 melody doesn't work here :(
17:15:12 <myname> actually, crowd is the only one that works here
17:20:13 <myname> i am using that bookmarklet
17:20:20 <myname> it works fine with crowd
17:20:32 <myname> but does not produce any sound at all from the other examples
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17:21:17 <JWinslow23> It works fine on mine. Did you select and/or copy-paste the text correctly?
17:23:14 <myname> you know a double click? it's basically 3/2 of that :p
17:24:22 <Koen_> is 3/2 of "a double click" "aa ddoouubblle click"?
17:24:22 <myname> it's supposed to mark a whole paragraph
17:25:19 <FireFly> I think it's "aa ddouublle cllicck"
17:26:25 <Koen_> but that's completely arbitrary!
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17:27:54 <olsner> Koen_: it's half a tripleclick
17:28:16 <Koen_> olsner: funny, Ithought it was a full tripleclick
17:29:47 <myname> copying and pasting doesn't work either :(
17:31:08 <olsner> Koen_: oh, maybe it is
17:31:21 <Koen_> olsner: I believe you meant "half a sexclick"
17:31:37 <olsner> I read 3/2 clicks, sorry
17:32:05 <Koen_> is that a full click plus a half-pressure-on-the-button click?
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17:34:25 <olsner> maybe you need a float pointing device to do it
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17:45:28 <JWinslow23> So, how's the 99 Bottles comin' along?
17:49:05 <ais523> hey, anyone here know how to type a ć using the altgr or the compose key in Linux/Gnome/Ubuntu?
17:49:29 <ais523> it wasn't working before I asked
17:49:59 <ais523> maybe I just made some sort of incredible typo
17:51:07 -!- shikhin_ has joined.
17:51:19 <ais523> btw, #esoteric: thanks for telling me what "substructural" meant
17:51:26 <ais523> it's really helping me construct searches for relevant papers
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17:53:38 <fizzie> JWinslow23: If you want people to "tamper" with it, shouldn't you share the source rather than the binary?
17:54:26 <fizzie> The StackBeat source. Or was this something else?
17:55:05 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed).
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17:56:13 <fizzie> Oh, I thought it was a recording of some StackBeat code.
17:56:34 <ais523> the problem is basically "write a program to produce this output"
17:56:45 <myname> anyone confident enough in mariolang to tell me if the ! is really needed on elevators?
17:56:46 <ais523> where the output is a recording of someone singing, and thus does not compress particularly well
17:56:59 <fizzie> ais523: It wasn't someone singing, though.
17:57:01 <ais523> or at least, not if it has to be expanded by a language with no loops
17:57:23 <fizzie> ais523: Boops and bleeps, basically. In fact, something I think could be compressed to a StackBeat program of reasonable size.
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17:57:31 <fizzie> (Not a small one, by any means, but still.)
17:57:45 <fizzie> (At least if you approximate.)
17:58:41 <JWinslow23> Been a while since someone mentioned MarioLANG.
17:58:48 <JWinslow23> I actually made a Hello World program.
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17:59:34 <myname> i do find elevators underspecified, though
18:00:40 <myname> i.e.: do you have to make mario stand still? if not, does he move one per turn (i.e. will it work if the elevator is flat enough)
18:00:57 <myname> is it teleportation or does it respect the symbols on the way up?
18:01:25 <myname> how far do jumps go up?
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18:03:12 <JWinslow23> Elevators follow the symbols on the way up.
18:03:34 <myname> that is what i would assume, too
18:03:54 <JWinslow23> Jumps go up 1 space, and if a space to make Mario move isn't there, an infinite loop occurs.
18:04:18 <JWinslow23> So a > over a ^ would make him jump right.
18:04:29 <JWinslow23> An upside-down U shape throughout the jump.
18:05:18 <JWinslow23> And elevators are skipped over if Mario keeps moving.
18:05:46 <myname> what if an elevator arrives on top but there is no moving symbol?
18:05:47 <HackEgo> bin/define \ bin/delquote \ bin/delvs
18:05:56 <HackEgo> bin/undo \ bin/unh \ bin/unicode \ bin/unidecode \ bin/units
18:06:17 <HackEgo> [U+22C2 N-ARY INTERSECTION]
18:06:19 <HackEgo> Can't open hth: No such file or directory.
18:06:22 <JWinslow23> Yeah, so put a moving symbol there, coders!
18:06:28 <HackEgo> [U+0107 LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH ACUTE]
18:06:29 <HackEgo> Can't open <hth: No such file or directory.
18:06:54 <HackEgo> [U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H]
18:07:34 <JWinslow23> If an elevator can go down AND up, it will only go up.
18:07:41 <ais523> `unicode U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T
18:07:51 <JWinslow23> Mario does not destroy objects as he encounters them.
18:07:58 <ais523> Unicode Consortium, go fix your standard to allow for unidecode injections
18:07:59 <fizzie> ais523: You can give that multiples with run.
18:08:11 <ais523> fizzie: nope, I'm trying to find a single character with that name
18:08:19 <ais523> so as to make unidecode's output ambiguous unless you look very closely
18:08:28 <fizzie> `run unicode 'LATIN SMALL LETTER H' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER T'
18:08:32 <JWinslow23> This ===|=== will make the wall act as a floor.
18:09:08 <fizzie> Somehow I don't think there will be any Unicode characters with "U+XXXX" and/or ][s in the name.
18:09:23 <ais523> I assumed that's what the square brackets were for
18:09:27 <ais523> preventing injection attacks
18:09:54 <myname> JWinslow23: what if i have stacked " over one #, will it move to the highest?
18:10:21 <fizzie> Well, kind of. The U+XXXX bit was added later than the brackets, so it needed something to visually separate characters.
18:10:46 <JWinslow23> myname, I believe it should go to the lowest.
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18:11:44 <myname> i have to rewrite like half of my code
18:12:11 <JWinslow23> Sorry about that. Can you give an estimate as to when you will release it?
18:12:31 -!- pp has joined.
18:12:55 -!- pp has changed nick to Guest54948.
18:13:14 <boily> `relcome Guest54948
18:13:17 <HackEgo> Guest54948: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
18:14:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: Bienvenue: not found
18:14:31 <myname> JWinslow23: i am not writing an interpreter yet
18:14:37 <HackEgo> Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.)
18:15:04 <JWinslow23> You said "I have to rewrite like half of my code".
18:15:16 -!- Guest54948 has left.
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18:19:55 <JWinslow23> Take your time. Post the source when you're done!
18:20:10 <myname> you don't even know what i am doing :D
18:22:40 <Taneb> Help I'm 1st year maths course rep and I can't remember if I told you guys already or not
18:22:46 <boily> `learn myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I?
18:23:03 <boily> Taneb: you didn't.
18:23:13 <HackEgo> boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. He's also a NaniDispenser, and a Man Eating Chicken.
18:24:16 <olsner> what does a maths course rep do?
18:24:23 <Taneb> I'm not actually sure
18:24:33 <Taneb> I think I'm to represent first-years doing maths
18:24:41 <olsner> it might've helped knowing that before accepting the position
18:24:52 <Taneb> boily: I don't think the TA has much to do with it
18:25:03 <Taneb> I presume they're too busy waiting to shoot things
18:25:21 <boily> ...??? just what kind of job does a rep do?
18:25:49 <Taneb> Tell the staff that the course is being taught poorly
18:25:54 <olsner> a rep repeats instructions
18:26:23 <Vorpal> What is it with official websites for musicians and stupid web design? Like flash-navigation or putting everything in a tiny little box in the middle of the page (which looks utterly ridiculous on a 24" monitor!) It is common enough to not just be a coincidence
18:27:09 <boily> Taneb: oh, I got the job description the wrong way round. makes much more sense now.
18:27:15 <boily> Vorpal: same thing with restaurants.
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18:27:45 <HackEgo> myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I?
18:27:48 <Vorpal> boily, hm true. Though some restaurants opt for the "early web" feel instead.
18:28:32 <boily> Vorpal: the only kind of website I have seen that persists in the Way of the Early Web are those from FLGSes.
18:28:45 <HackEgo> Vorpal is really boring. Seriously, you have no idea.
18:29:05 <Vorpal> boily, what is a FLGS?
18:29:14 <boily> case in point: http://levalet.com/ http://www.imaginaire.com/indexv2.jsp?langue=fr
18:29:21 <boily> Vorpal: a Friendly Local Game Store.
18:29:49 <JWinslow23> So, if anyone can make a MarioLANG interpreter, post it in the esoteric file archive, or on the MarioLANG page.
18:29:55 -!- JWinslow23 has left.
18:31:06 <Vorpal> boily, "levalet" sounds familiar. Not sure what I'm thinking of though.
18:31:45 <boily> recase in repoint: http://chezgeeks.com/ (halfway decent) and http://www.strategygames.ca/
18:31:52 <Vorpal> Ah, no I'm thinking of La Valette from Witcher 2
18:32:12 <Vorpal> boily, those doesn't look early web with minimal CSS.
18:32:32 <Vorpal> That was how I meant with early
18:32:54 <Vorpal> boily, like, maybe the background colour set, but not much else
18:33:06 <Taneb> Vorpal: freefall.purrsia.com?
18:33:43 <Vorpal> Taneb, yeah sure, about that level.
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18:34:21 <Vorpal> Taneb, I know at least three restaurants around here with that level of formatting.
18:34:48 <Taneb> Vorpal: I think most of the restaurants in Hexham have a website consisting of a single image
18:35:06 <Taneb> Also, did you know that someone who makes hats is a milliner?
18:37:05 <Vorpal> Why the hell... youtube-dl is broken? Righ
18:37:18 <Vorpal> It downloads this 4K video in 720p
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18:45:34 <john_metcalf> Hi! Does anyone know much about formatting citations here? Is there a correct way to cite the language an article is written in?
18:46:29 <boily> john_metcalf: citing in which context?
18:46:49 <john_metcalf> Boily: in a bibliography, e.g. here http://www.retroprogramming.com/2011/11/bibliography-of-programming-games.html
18:47:16 <john_metcalf> Some of the articles are written in Spanish. One in Swedish. I'm about to add one in Italian.
18:48:00 <boily> hmm... probably by following wikipédia's standards? otherwise, hmm...
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18:49:46 <FireFly> john_metcalf: Danish, actually, if you mean "Slaget om siliciummet"
18:49:51 <boily> john_metcalf: here's a promising example → http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2570362/
18:51:33 <boily> PSA! caution! scandinavians abound in this chännel!
18:52:02 <Taneb> Woah I didn't sign up for this
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18:53:42 <ion> National Institute of NIH
18:54:16 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:54:42 <ion> National Institute of National Institute of National Institute of National Institute of
18:55:25 <boily> whereas shachaf is lazy, ion is strict.
18:55:51 <Bike> Fiora: cold spring harbor is doing a bio version of arxiv!! super exciting
18:55:51 <ion> Nope. That was a lazy infinite string, you chose to evaluate it to whatever you see for whatever reason.
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18:56:59 <ion> inftythree
18:57:11 <john_metcalf> Hmmm... looks promising. I've been using MLA citations, but the style guide doesn't mention foreign languages.
18:57:32 <boily> eeeeeh... metasepia's in French?
18:57:46 <metasepia> Error (1): Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num
18:57:46 <metasepia> (GHC.Integer.Type.Integer -> GHC.Integer.Type.Integer -> t))
18:57:46 <metasepia> arising from the ambiguity check for `e_1112'
18:57:46 <metasepia> from the context (GHC.Num.Num (a -> a1 -> t),
18:57:46 <metasepia> bound by the inferred type for `e_1112':
18:57:47 <metasepia> (GHC.Num.Num (a -> a1 -> t), GHC.Num.Num a, GHC.Num.Num a1) => t
18:57:50 <ion> shachaf: infty should clearly be 10/0, not 1/0.
18:57:57 <shachaf> metasepia.....................................................................
18:58:01 <Bike> john_metcalf: in APA citation the usual is just to use the publisher information of the translator and then "originally published by..." in a parenthetical, i imagine it's similar with MLA
18:58:03 <boily> shachaf: you didn't see nothing.
18:58:06 <FireFly> metasepia: oh hush, you don't have to do *that*
18:58:18 <boily> FireFly: you neither.
18:58:28 <Bike> john_metcalf: if the citation is to a non-English language you just... cite it, i mean, not everyone is an english speaker anyway ;)
18:58:33 <boily> nobody saw rien pantoute. nothing. nada. empty. allez vous en!
18:58:47 <ion> Nobody try one of those expressions that result in a huuuuuuge error message with metasepia.
18:58:50 <olsner> boily: now you're in french
18:59:21 <FireFly> Oh, that's no fun. Okay, I'll be quiet
18:59:33 <Bike> channel's super deep today i see
18:59:43 <boily> FireFly: if you want to have fun, try to ~duckwhack.
18:59:50 <ion> bike: Deep in shit
18:59:55 <FireFly> ~duckwhack -- don't blame me
18:59:56 <metasepia> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi
18:59:59 <Bike> why is noone excited about biorxiv, imo.
19:00:04 <metasepia> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi
19:00:08 <metasepia> Rubber chickens were Holiday Rewards available on the 21 March 2005 for only two weeks.
19:00:17 <boily> FireFly: whacking the duck, like a googlewhack.
19:00:27 <ion> bike: We don’t care about them ugly sacks of mostly water that much.
19:00:39 <boily> (in that case, probably trying to find the weirdest definition you can get with a ~duck)
19:01:12 <Bike> self deprecation will endear you to no-one
19:01:33 <Fiora> Bike: what's cold spring harbor?
19:01:33 <boily> ion: I'm not a sack!
19:01:50 <Bike> Fiora: big biology laboratory.
19:02:11 <boily> fizzie: FUNGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!
19:02:11 <Bike> i mean, the main advantage being that people will actually take it seriously.
19:02:17 <Fiora> is there like, some reason that bio papers don't go on arxiv?
19:03:01 <Bike> some of the big journals (like Neuron and the Lancet) don't allow preprint stuff because they suck
19:03:09 <Bike> otherwise i dunno, but there's certainly not a lot of bio papers on arxiv
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19:03:41 <Bike> «“The interesting question is: what the hell's wrong with biology?” says the University of California–Berkeley's Michael Eisen» lol.
19:03:53 -!- augur has joined.
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19:04:24 <Bike> Fiora: eisen gives a reason as that journal names are more important in bio. "Landing a paper in Nature, Science or Cell can make or break careers in biomedicine, more so than in the physical sciences"
19:04:39 -!- ^v has joined.
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19:04:54 <Fiora> Bike: huh, that makes sense.
19:05:07 <Fiora> does nature do other physical sciences like physics or am I remembering wrong
19:05:34 <Bike> think they do.
19:06:52 <Bike> oh. well. the original paper on particles as waves was in Nature. so there we go
19:07:06 <Bike> «The neutron — J. Chadwick (1932). "Possible existence of a neutron". Nature 129 (3252)» i'm sure this was unimportant
19:07:30 <shachaf> perhaps arxiv's bar is too high
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19:07:51 <Bike> haha, the paper on the double helix wasn't even peer reviewed
19:07:59 <Bike> they were just like "welp they're right, let's publish"
19:08:27 <Fiora> "please, don't peer review this, you might find out that rosalin did all the work"
19:09:26 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:10:25 <Bike> looks like mostly biology in the latest issues though.
19:10:32 <Bike> other than "Olivine crystals align during diffusion creep of Earth’s upper mantle"
19:11:11 <Bike> Fiora: oh, looks like biorxiv is gonna have comments, too
19:12:01 <Fiora> "[T]here are unarguable faux pas in our history. These include the rejection of Cerenkov radiation, Hideki Yukawa's meson, work on photosynthesis by Johann Deisenhofer, Robert Huber and Hartmut Michel, and the initial rejection (but eventual acceptance) of Stephen Hawking's black-hole radiation."
19:13:02 <Fiora> that was from wikipedia?
19:13:12 <Fiora> "Nature acknowledged more of its own missteps in rejecting papers in an editorial titled "Coping with Peer Rejection""
19:13:42 <Bike> you win some you lose some, i guess
19:13:57 <Fiora> gosh, some of these landmark papers. it feels so amazing and weird to look back on them
19:14:07 <Fiora> "Observation of a Rapidly Pulsating Radio Source" to think it all started in things like this
19:14:52 <ais523> biorxiv = biology version of arxiv?
19:15:06 <Bike> that's the actual name btw, i didn't make it up.
19:15:14 <ais523> hmm, I wonder why arxiv is restricted to maths/physics/CS anyway
19:15:26 <Bike> it's not, de jure
19:16:14 <Bike> part of it is major journals in the field not liking preprints, and part of it is biologists just not being open,probably
19:16:16 <ais523> what a pointless trigger
19:16:24 <Bike> but there's a few articles, like http://arxiv.org/abs/1304.0479
19:16:31 <Bike> which isn't even comp bio.
19:16:40 <ais523> I know someone who recently submitted a microbiology PhD, I'll ask them
19:17:07 <Bike> oh, though there isn't a category for qualitiative biology, is there.
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19:19:16 <Bike> http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0057309 well, anyway, huh.
19:20:16 <ais523> hmm, how do I reboot a graphics card in Ubuntu, without rebooting the running system
19:20:24 <ais523> probably I have to restart X, which defeats the point of the exercise
19:20:29 <boily> graphic cards can boot?
19:20:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
19:20:45 <fizzie> boily: I once restarted a graphics card by unplugging and replugging it.
19:20:54 <fizzie> I don't think I got any sort of image out of it, though.
19:21:12 <fizzie> It might've been an ISA card.
19:21:24 <Gregor> I once rebooted a graphics card by rebooting my machine.
19:21:38 <ion> I once rebooted a graphics card by restarting the universe
19:21:43 <Bike> i uh, once rebooted a man in reno,
19:21:44 <ais523> yeah, rebooting the machine would definitely work
19:21:58 <fizzie> Today's WebSDR encounter: an endlessly repeating "DESVO" in morse, of which Google seems to say just that, well, there is such a thing.
19:22:02 <boily> I cooked an apple pie by rebooting a graphics card.
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19:23:07 <ion> Good that it was an apple pie, because the cake is a lie.
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19:27:07 <boily> I wonder what would be the taste of an algebraic cake...
19:27:23 <Bike> entirely predictable?
19:27:55 <boily> like you'd exclaim “I knew it!” after tasting a bite?
19:29:38 <Koen_> "this cake is tasty, alright, but not transcendent"
19:30:31 <JWinslow23> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:MarioLANG#Good_sample_programs
19:30:42 <Bike> did you know, i was reading an old math paper the other day that went past algebraic and transcendent to "algebraic-algebraic", "algebraic-transcendental", and "hypertranscendental"
19:30:46 <Bike> the worst terms imo
19:32:24 <JWinslow23> To be or not to be, that is the question.
19:32:39 <Bike> and the answer is [ten minute argument about excluded middle"
19:32:44 <Bike> wow good bracketing me.
19:32:54 <myname> JWinslow23: http://files.mynery.eu/fib.m
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19:33:24 <Bike> mariolang is just going to make me think of generalized super mario man,im' sorry
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19:34:04 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGI-GqAK9c it's so good
19:34:19 <JWinslow23> Assuming Mario does not treat the " as solid?
19:35:29 <Bike> the people demand a reference implementation
19:35:54 <myname> i am hacking something together right now, but without fancy moving/debugging stuff
19:36:11 <ais523> there's a proof that generalized mario is NP-complete, somewhere
19:36:20 <ais523> although Sokoban is PSPACE-complete, which is better
19:36:21 <Bike> yeah that's what this video is.
19:36:39 <Bike> suddenly i feel like there should be an implementation in the form of a romhack.
19:36:47 <Bike> that could be fun to do...
19:37:47 <boily> fungot: could you please undangle Bike's bracketing?
19:37:47 <fungot> boily: and hvh sure is a url for this python movie suffice?' ' viel fnord linja on fnord. but have you considered compiling jvm bytecode? :d
19:38:14 <ais523> Bike: the NES doesn't have enough memory for that sort of thing, I don't think
19:38:29 <ais523> I guess you could romhack a port to one of the later consoles
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19:39:37 <Bike> not enough memory for brainfuck?
19:39:58 <ais523> SMB1 can't even scroll left
19:40:00 <JWinslow23> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGI-GqAK9c This video has popular is views of 10,249. I you think should see video Marioman.
19:40:07 <Bike> oh, i meant for mariolang.
19:40:25 <ais523> even then, the lack of vertical scrolling will hurt
19:40:35 <ais523> (I can't think of a NES game offhand that could scroll horizontally and vertically at the same time)
19:41:08 <Bike> mariolang programs can probably be re/written to fit in a reasonable height though
19:41:17 <elliott> Bike: okay I lost it at 2:40
19:41:28 <Bike> damn straight ya did
19:41:41 <ais523> in Metroid, it alternated between rooms that scrolled horizontally, and rooms that scrolled vertically
19:41:53 <ais523> you could really confuse it via glitching into a room an unexpected way
19:42:03 <ais523> and scrolling a vertical room horizontally or vice versa
19:42:25 <Bike> elliott: i don't know why paint store ave city makes me crack up but it does
19:42:34 <Bike> is there a metroidvania esolang
19:42:44 <elliott> oh. I cracked up at that too but forgot in the meantime
19:43:48 <Bike> sigbovik also had a "serious" paper where a guy implemented a game-solving AI by picking a few vectors in memory and optimizing them increasing, it's pretty awesome
19:43:59 <Bike> same program does ok at mario and at some shooter
19:44:40 <JWinslow23> Super Mario Bros, which about 1 or 2 bros that land in fantasy life with proof of NP complete Jumpman on a brick.
19:45:45 <JWinslow23> Super Mario Bros is star two plum-bobs named Luigi with Marioman. Here is a pict of Marioman.
19:47:07 <Bike> JWinslow23, read some learns http://sigbovik.org
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19:49:38 <JWinslow23> I is the studdentt at the school of middels.
19:50:18 <Bike> reading advanced papers is hard sometimes
19:50:28 <Bike> don't be afraid to go over it multiple times and work out some related simplified problems on paper
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19:52:46 <JWinslow23> Marioman went on a quest. He is very, very hunger from not having enough plumming jobs, so Marioman's Quest for Eat and Dollars. This spells QED, so we are done.
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19:55:33 <JWinslow23> Polynomial means "many names", because Polly is the name of a parrot, and nominal means many, as in my riting is have a nominal amount of flause.
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20:10:32 <nooodl_> <Bike> sigbovik also had a "serious" paper where a guy implemented a game-solving AI by picking a few vectors in memory and optimizing them increasing, it's pretty awesome
20:10:46 <nooodl_> the plot twist is that it' sthe same person responsible for generalized super mario man
20:11:03 <nooodl_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOCurBYI_gY oh Bike's gone?? oops
20:11:20 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl.
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20:12:33 <Bike> nooodl: wait, really? i had no idea.
20:12:42 <Bike> this vargomax man is a rising star.
20:12:46 <fizzie> ais523: Super Mario Bros 3?
20:12:58 <Bike> lunar magic is for plebs, fizzie!!
20:13:07 <ais523> fizzie: it was a sequel to Super Mario Bros, released on the NES
20:13:13 <ais523> innovations included the ability to scroll left
20:13:18 <fizzie> ais523: It scrolls up and down too.
20:13:29 <ais523> huh, I actually didn't know that
20:13:36 <ais523> I guess it does on the world map, at least
20:13:44 <fizzie> Though not everywhere.
20:13:52 <Bike> oh, wait, i was thinking of the wrong game :/
20:13:59 <Bike> smb3 has those slides, i think that scrolled diagonally
20:14:17 <fizzie> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82TL-Acm4ts#t=0m30 -- sample.
20:14:22 <Bike> thisreminds me that my favorite game programming story is iD's first thing being mario for the pc, which everyone thought was impossible
20:14:39 <nooodl> "wizards and warriors" also had horizontal + vertical scrolling. no idea why i'm reminded of *that* of all things though
20:15:01 <nooodl> Bike: um i think you mean "dangerous dave"
20:15:46 <fizzie> If that's what Bike meant, calling it "Mario for the PC" is being very kind.
20:16:14 <nooodl> it's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj4HJkeQSg0 this thing
20:16:51 <fizzie> Oh, I thought you meant the actual Dangerous Dave.
20:17:06 <Bike> that is the actual dangerous dave, it's a demo they made.
20:17:10 <Bike> and didn't sell, for obvious reasons
20:17:16 <fizzie> No, Dangerous Dave is a game.
20:17:29 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_Dave uh it's a series.............
20:17:36 <nooodl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaAf8sarJok "the" dangerous dave
20:17:41 <nooodl> (wow the audio. god. loud)
20:18:00 <fizzie> Yeah, the warning wasn't kidding.
20:18:49 <fizzie> Anyway, it doesn't quite count as Mario for the PC.
20:19:26 <fizzie> (The id thing is more like it.)
20:20:08 <Bike> whatever, nerd.
20:20:46 <fizzie> Though I'm a bit suspicious of the claim that that'd be the first ever smooth-scrolling anything on the PC.
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20:24:24 <shachaf> Bike: how do you feel about Caltrain conductors
20:24:49 <Bike> I don't feel anything about anything.
20:26:00 <elliott> nooodl: hey, Ilari. (he used to be in this channel)
20:27:24 <boily> I... am being weirded out. I hate those moments where you grep for something that exists, that executes, that has side-effects, but the grep returns nothing.
20:30:42 <lexande> Bike: how do you feel about now being allowed on BART at any time
20:30:47 <lexande> oh, i guess you already answered that
20:31:09 <Bike> why are people asking me about things that are hundreds of klicks away from me
20:31:17 <olsner> boily: what do you mean by grepping for something that executes and has side-effects?
20:31:55 <boily> olsner: I'm grepping for a django custom command because I have some modifications to apply to it.
20:32:12 <boily> the command executes, it works, it does stuff, but grepping for its name returns zilch.
20:33:00 <lexande> Bike: where are you? we can talk about trains and bikes there instead if you want
20:33:17 <boily> in any case, time for shopping for mysterious stuff.
20:33:22 <olsner> boily: you probably misspelled it in grep, or forgot an -r
20:33:48 <boily> olsner: grep -Finr, in both the local project folder and /usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages.
20:34:15 <boily> but I really have to disappear. like, shopping, and now that I'm not sick, I can deliver parcels over to mysterious places.
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20:38:37 <Bike> lexande: eastern washington, land of nothingness
20:38:49 <Bike> there are freight trains but probably not passenger trains worth considering
20:39:12 <lexande> well there are daily passenger trains from spokane to seattle, portland and chicago
20:39:30 <Bike> spokane is too mainstream
20:40:00 <kmc> imo take up freight hopping
20:40:45 <Bike> there are free bike rentals, which is nice
20:42:43 <fizzie> I am imagining a bike on a bike.
20:43:04 <lexande> yeah, your nearest stations are spokane and kennewick, that's pretty bad
20:43:32 <Bike> kind of a shame since riding the train back home for thanksgiving would e nice
20:43:34 <fizzie> Bike: Possibly something like http://bostonbiker.org/files/2008/02/bike.jpg for example.
20:43:51 <Bike> i like her styel
20:43:58 <lexande> Bike: why are you in a place like that
20:44:12 <Bike> there's a school out here, believe it or not.
20:44:36 <lexande> yeah but there are schools in lots of places
20:45:29 <Bike> well, this one lets me work in a lab, so that's something.
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20:46:58 <nooodl> fizzie: wow the favicon *makes* it
20:55:43 <lexande> and the same school seems to have instances in spokane and vancouver wa?
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20:58:45 <JWinslow23> I made a BF program. It displays the ASCII values of infinitely many Fibonacci numbers.
20:58:46 <JWinslow23> >>>>>>++++++++++<<<<<<+.>>>>>>.<<<<<+.>>>>>.<<<<<[<[>>>>+<<<<-]>[>>>>+<<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[-<<+>>]>[-<<<+>>>]<<<.>>>>.<<<<<<>[<+>>>+<<-]>>[-]<<[-]>[<+>>+<-]>[-]<<]
20:59:19 <JWinslow23> I'll convert it to MarioLANG soon enough.
20:59:35 <myname> i'm pretty far with my interpreter
20:59:48 <myname> i am just fixing an error on [
20:59:49 <oerjan> ^bf >>>>>>++++++++++<<<<<<+.>>>>>>.<<<<<+.>>>>>.<<<<<[<[>>>>+<<<<-]>[>>>>+<<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[-<<+>>]>[-<<<+>>>]<<<.>>>>.<<<<<<>[<+>>>+<<-]>>[-]<<[-]>[<+>>+<-]>[-]<<]
20:59:51 <fungot> <CTCP>.<CTCP>........".7.Y...y.b..=..U.m../.. ..1.B.s..(.......y.)...m.8...._..@.!.a...e.H.....9.......X..M.B...`.1...S..h.}..b.G....."...x.E......A......M. ...
21:00:03 <fungot> 0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55.89.144.233.377.610.987.1597.2584.4181.6765.10946.17711.28657.46368.75025.121393.196418.317811.514229.832040.1346269.2178309.3524578.5702887.9227465.14930352.24157817.39088169.632459 ...
21:00:26 <JWinslow23> It has an actual command to turn it into actual numbers.
21:00:51 <fizzie> fungot: Are you feeling quite all right there?
21:01:21 <oerjan> you killed fungot. you bastards!
21:01:32 <JWinslow23> >>>>>>++++++++++<<<<<<+.>>>>>>.<<<<<+.>>>>>.<<<<<[<[>>>>+<<<<-]>[>>>>+<<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[-<<+>>]>[-<<<+>>>]<<<.>>>>.<<<<<<>[<+>>>+<<-]>>[-]<<[-]>[<+>>+<-]>[-]<<]
21:01:35 <fungot> >+10>+>+[[+5[>+8<-]>.<+6[>-8<-]+<3]>.>>[[-]<[>+<-]>>[<2+>+>-]<[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>[-]>+>+<3-[>+<-]]]]]]]]]]]+>>>]<3][]
21:01:35 <fungot> FireFly: i think scheme could sneak in among fortran... they're certainly not concerned about either of those!
21:01:35 <fungot> fizzie: cool :p thanks :p
21:01:35 <fungot> oerjan: however i think i had one where our zed joined this channel. it _is_ scheme.)
21:01:40 <JWinslow23> It prints a newline after each number.
21:01:53 <FireFly> fizzie: he does indeed seem to feel quite all right
21:02:00 <fizzie> oerjan: That was some *really* well timed network lag, I think; it wasn't using any CPU time or anything.
21:02:20 <fizzie> FireFly: I never know what pronoun to use.
21:02:48 <FireFly> fungot: how do you prefer to be referred to as?
21:02:48 <fungot> FireFly: if we were to make a demo out of it
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21:11:16 <Bike> JWinslow23: have you considered writing a bf->mario compiler
21:11:46 <JWinslow23> I...don't think I can, but I HAVE considered it.
21:12:04 <JWinslow23> My main problem would probably be the programming language.
21:12:16 <JWinslow23> Also, nested loops. What to do, what to do...
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21:13:23 <Bike> haha, that'd rule.
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21:17:48 <JWinslow23> At the bottom of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:MarioLANG#Good_sample_programs
21:18:27 <Bike> most of these programs really are thin enough to fit in NES SMB, hrm
21:18:38 <Bike> I bet you need to go backwards for this one, though.
21:18:47 <JWinslow23> Well, I'll definitely think of the BF to MarioLANG thing, and I will check out myname's interpreter.
21:18:52 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed).
21:21:21 <myname> JWinslow has horribly timing
21:24:41 <oerjan> myname: i don't think anyone other than the author of MarioLANG knows how it should work, and hasn't been seen for years?
21:25:57 <oerjan> although the talk page has some hints.
21:26:25 <myname> i have an interpreter that works perfectly fine on the example code in the esolang wiki but produces errors on the code in talk
21:26:32 <myname> https://github.com/mynery/mariolang.rb
21:26:37 <oerjan> as does the initial example, which was written by the author.
21:27:28 <oerjan> i just highly expect the author never seriously thought about corner cases unless asked.
21:27:55 <Bike> gonna need an ANSI standards committee on this
21:28:00 <oerjan> or else he would at least have realized they needed specification.
21:29:24 <Bike> http://arxiv.org/abs/1310.6271 neat
21:31:58 * oerjan commends Bike for not linking directly to the pdf.
21:32:07 <Bike> isn't that so irritating?
21:32:34 <Bike> like man, think of the metadata :(
21:33:11 <oerjan> if they had at least put it in a subdirectory so it was easy to find the abstract.
21:34:10 <fizzie> I believe http://sprunge.us/cGCe is a bf-to-Mario translation, though untested and possibly unoptimal. (I avoided trying to walk across the " ends of elevators since I don't know what that does.)
21:35:36 <oerjan> you should put it on the wiki
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21:36:54 <fizzie> I guess I could put that to the talk page, though I don't have time to implement an actual translator today.
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21:37:49 <oerjan> well it's a TC proof, and TC proofs go on the article page unless enormous.
21:38:32 <fizzie> But what if it happens to be wrong! (I guess someone will edit it, that's what'll happen. 'orrible.)
21:39:10 <oerjan> i guess you might put it on the talk page until there's an interpreter to test it with.
21:46:35 <fizzie> Welp, I put it on the talk page in a very informal manner.
21:52:53 <oerjan> <Bike> Fiora: cold spring harbor is doing a bio version of arxiv!! super exciting <-- arxiv isn't for all sciences?
21:53:43 <Bike> when was the last time you saw a bio paper on arxiv
21:53:48 <Bike> other than when i linked one earlier.
21:54:30 <kmc> does the crabputer count as a bio paper
21:54:44 <Bike> the crabputer is in a league of its own
21:55:09 <oerjan> it sidesteps all categories
21:56:39 <FireFly> I think the crabputer is the epitome of interdisciplinary science
22:00:07 <fizzie> Related to an earlier topic: http://morphcat.de/blog/?do=se&e=8
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22:09:01 <oerjan> <Bike> wow good bracketing me. <-- fixed it
22:10:21 <Bike> what about the quote
22:11:18 <oerjan> there is no quote. nothing to see here. move on.
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22:27:37 <shachaf> "wow good bracketing me." -- Bike
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23:16:01 * pikhq mutters at Pokemon...
23:16:22 <pikhq> Friend Safari Ditto is hard.
23:23:17 -!- JWinslow23 has joined.
23:23:40 <JWinslow23> How can I run the Ruby interpreter, myname?
23:24:47 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
23:25:04 <myname> JWinslow23: well, with ruby? :D
23:25:21 <myname> it takes a file as argument
23:25:34 <JWinslow23> Yeah. I don't know how to run a Ruby program.
23:25:51 <myname> it has a shebang, so basically ./foo should work
23:26:03 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: istr he uses windows
23:26:32 <myname> JWinslow23: i tried your hello world, it works
23:27:30 -!- Bike has joined.
23:27:48 <Bike> fizzie: i think this is the first time i've seen a major difference between ntsc and pal
23:28:09 <Phantom_Hoover> didn't SSBM have a bunch of fiddly little differences between the two
23:28:18 <myname> i am kinda disappointed with my fibonacci solution
23:28:25 <myname> it should work smaller
23:29:31 <myname> too bad, mariolang does not have a "skip the following command, no matter what"
23:37:02 <JWinslow23> I downloaded the interpreter and version 2.0.0 of Ruby at http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/ . What now?
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23:41:12 <Bike> oh shit, i accidentally got vim to have multiple frames.
23:43:06 <Phantom_Hoover> JWinslow23, you realise we're probably all running linux here
23:43:16 <Phantom_Hoover> or at least those of us prepared to help you with ruby
23:46:07 <oerjan> i have a hunch that's not going to work exactly as given.
23:46:30 <oerjan> JWinslow23: i think it might be best to open a command prompt window, anyway.
23:47:20 <oerjan> although i always find it awkward to get to the right directory for things from there...
23:47:41 * oerjan is using windows, but hasn't tried ruby on it.
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23:48:24 <oerjan> if the ruby installer has put ruby in the PATH, things will be easier.
23:49:25 <oerjan> (you then should only need to type "ruby nameofmyname'sinterpreter yourmariolangprogram"
23:50:01 <oerjan> well you can prepend that, then.
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23:51:44 <oerjan> C:\Ruby200\bin\ruby.exe, almost as in Phantom_Hoover's link
23:52:15 <oerjan> but you need a command prompt first.
23:53:13 <JWinslow23> It says "No such file or directory", though.
23:54:18 <JWinslow23> When I type in "C:\Ruby200\bin\ruby.exe mariolang.rb HelloWorld.m"
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23:54:58 <Phantom_Hoover> you have changed directory to wherever your files are, right
23:55:09 <oerjan> that would be necessary.
23:55:24 <oerjan> JWinslow23: what does the "dir" command show
23:55:24 <Bike> you said you were familiar with the command prompt.
23:55:41 <JWinslow23> Oh. I didn't know about the command dir.
23:56:10 <Phantom_Hoover> JWinslow23, you can give filenames as relative or absolute
23:56:11 <Bike> for future reference: you are not familiar with the command prompt
23:56:17 <JWinslow23> It says the directory of C:\Users\Owner
23:56:38 <Phantom_Hoover> on windows absolute filenames start with drive letters like C:, anything else is relative
23:56:41 <myname> you want to cd to whereever your files are
23:56:47 <oerjan> JWinslow23: are the files you want to run in there too?
23:57:12 <Phantom_Hoover> relative filenames are stuck on the end of whatever the output of dir is
23:57:17 <JWinslow23> oerjan, no. They are in C:\Ruby200\bin
23:57:53 <oerjan> JWinslow23: i'm not talking about the ruby interpreter itself, but the mariolang interpreter and mariolang program.
23:57:55 <Phantom_Hoover> JWinslow23, you want to cd there and also put your own code somewhere that isn't there in future
23:58:11 <JWinslow23> They are in C:\Ruby200\bin . I moved them there.
23:58:32 <oerjan> JWinslow23: ok then cd C:\Ruby200\bin
23:58:42 <Phantom_Hoover> you shouldn't actually put them there, that directory is for the ruby implementation
23:58:55 <JWinslow23> You know what? I took Phantom's advice and moved them back.
23:59:24 <JWinslow23> C:\Users\Owner\Desktop\Josiah's stuff\Esoteric Programming Languages\MarioLANG