00:02:03 <JWinslow23> Which reminds me, I have to rework my Fibonacci loop.
00:02:20 <myname> i am doing a really pretty one right now
00:03:50 <oerjan> JWinslow23: if you do echo %PATH% , does the result contain C:\Ruby200\bin ? if so you can just write ruby instead of the whole filename.
00:04:55 <JWinslow23> Yes, perfect...Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahav!
00:05:08 <myname> JWinslow23: take a look at the talk page
00:05:28 <oerjan> hey maniackal laughters are not done enough here. also:
00:05:32 <HackEgo> "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
00:06:14 <myname> i think i cannot get it any smaller
00:06:24 <Phantom_Hoover> JWinslow23, you might also want to try dragging files from the file manager to the command line, sometimes that fills in the pathname for you but IDK if windows does it
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00:07:26 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: works for me
00:07:43 <myname> it is horribly slow, though
00:07:45 <oerjan> also thanks, i didn't know that
00:08:09 <oerjan> actually i dragged from the desktop, but probably same thing.
00:08:27 <myname> it took 15 seconds to calculate 10946
00:09:04 <Sgeo> Racket, Chicken, or Guile?
00:09:09 <Sgeo> I gather that Guile is more interactive than the other two, but the other two generally have more libraries. explicit/implicit renaming seems [Chicken] seems... almost too simple.
00:09:22 <Sgeo> Also, is it just me, or is there something of a war in the Scheme community between PLT and everyone else?
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00:09:38 <myname> i am going to make some nice debugger in hopefully not so far future
00:11:36 <JWinslow23> You can actually see Mario as he's going through the level.
00:11:38 <myname> with .net integration?
00:12:09 <JWinslow23> The only interaction is the program inputted.
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00:13:29 <JWinslow23> It just makes Mario so you can see him instead of you coding him blind.
00:13:30 <myname> oh, my interpreter doesn't really respect walls as walls :D
00:13:51 <myname> i.e. +|: will just output 1
00:14:28 <JWinslow23> Good. It's starting to give me a rash.
00:15:00 <myname> have fun, i am going to sleep now
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00:16:06 <oerjan> JWinslow23: it's not fair to make rash judgements.
00:17:36 <JWinslow23> it's not fair to make rash judgements.
00:17:59 <oerjan> ^echo it's not fair to make rash judgements.
00:17:59 <fungot> it's not fair to make rash judgements. it's not fair to make rash judgements.
00:20:12 <Sgeo> Is Rexx... interesting in any way?
00:20:36 <myname> JWinslow23: which one?
00:23:47 <myname> STDIN.read may be the problem
00:23:50 <JWinslow23> Also, my countdown program displays a Mars astrology symbol instead of boom, although it does the countdown just fine.
00:26:11 <myname> the code doesn't look like it's supposed to BOOM
00:26:21 <myname> you print 13, which should be a newline
00:26:39 <myname> don't know what that is
00:27:59 <myname> JWinslow23: the problem of the truth machine is located
00:29:06 <JWinslow23> The countdown equates to ++++++++++>++++++++++[.-<.>]+++++++[<++++++++>-]<.+++++++++++++..--. in BF.
00:29:53 <drlemon> Idea: BrainFunc. Brainfuck with definable functions that are defined by characters.
00:30:12 <drlemon> Also, my friend says BFGUI would be amazing, where you define the color of the pixel by memory
00:30:12 <JWinslow23> myname, what is the problem with the truth machine(s)?
00:30:29 <myname> JWinslow23: change STDIN.read to STDIN.gets
00:30:59 <JWinslow23> I'll change the code. You do the same thing and reupload it.
00:35:50 <JWinslow23> Never mind, I redownloaded, and it works great.
00:37:19 <JWinslow23> Oh, and your Fibonacci program works great!
00:37:20 <oerjan> drlemon: have you seen http://esolangs.org/wiki/Paintfuck%2B
00:38:05 <JWinslow23> Yeah, and there is no interpreter. It is an excellent idea, though.
00:38:06 <myname> it basically does (a, b, 0) -> (a+b, 0, b) -> (0, a+b, b) -> (b, a+b, 0)
00:38:07 <drlemon> Oh, there was a language that was brainfuck, but each character was any word of a certain length. It had a wiki article, but i can't recall the name
00:38:35 <oerjan> no one can remember all the brainfuck derivatives
00:39:25 <oerjan> JWinslow23: there is plain Paintfuck though
00:39:53 <JWinslow23> oerjan, I know that there is plain PF, and I know the interpreter for that, but wouldn't it be nice if there were colors?
00:40:03 <myname> JWinslow23: now enjoy exploring the wonderful world of mariolang
00:40:28 <JWinslow23> myname, I will make a 99 Bottles of Beer program.
00:40:45 <JWinslow23> It will be a dread to chart, though. I'll need help shortening it.
00:41:30 <myname> a simple was would be long paths for the strings to print
00:46:40 <myname> an obligatory brainfuck interpreter should be possible
00:48:23 <myname> it seems pretty hard, actually
00:49:18 <myname> i cannot think of a way to do "move mmemory pointer to cell x"
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00:57:31 <oerjan> myname: just convert one of the bf self-interpreters.
00:58:23 <myname> that is changing the code
00:58:29 <myname> i want to interpret it
00:59:14 <oerjan> if you convert a bf self-interpreter to mariolang, you get a bf interpreter in mariolang.
01:01:49 <myname> okay, i just noticed that termbox bindings for ruby doesn't seem to be that great
01:05:33 <myname> JWinslow23: i have great ideas on how to improve the language
01:07:00 <myname> i thought of making the whole floor destroyable blocks
01:07:23 <myname> i.e. if you jump at it from below it will be removed and you are able to change execution
01:08:54 <JWinslow23> Huh. Maybe there can be a floor block just for that.
01:09:22 <JWinslow23> Also, this is already confusing, the 99 Bottles.
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01:16:43 <Sgeo> help im having trouble figuring out how to use youtube
01:16:58 <JWinslow23> What? What are you having trouble with?
01:17:36 <Sgeo> Figuring out if I can buy a payment-required YouTube video for someone else
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01:18:20 <JWinslow23> I've never got to s payment required YouTube video.
01:18:39 <Sgeo> Also, why are websites able to detect whether Incognito is in use?
01:19:31 <Bike> lol, do sites do that
01:20:04 <JWinslow23> To be honest, things got weird when Sgeo said "help im having trouble figuring out how to use youtube".
01:20:29 <JWinslow23> "Figuring out if I can buy a payment-required YouTube video for someone else" cleared it up.
01:20:34 <Sgeo> Bike: when I try to watch the video in Incognito, it says "Incognito mode is not supported for playback. Please use a non-incognito browser window."
01:20:39 <Bike> welcome to sgeo, i guess
01:20:46 <Bike> Sgeo: what makes you think that's on youtube's side
01:21:39 <Bike> on a pay-for video, i assume he means
01:22:28 <Bike> only fools pay for things. fuck capitalism. fuck money. live
01:23:13 <Sgeo> My goal is to watch the video in question with someone else using a synchtube clone
01:23:24 <Sgeo> I have reason to believe it will work if we both own the video
01:30:14 <oerjan> science: always in need of funding.
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01:34:00 <JWinslow23> I need help with a 99 Bottles program, so volunteer on the wiki.
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01:51:58 <kmc> youtube has pay videos now?
01:52:01 <kmc> what is the world coming to
01:52:25 <Bike> you've been able to buy movies for like, over a year...
01:53:06 <kmc> because I haven't known about it!
01:54:01 <kmc> perhaps the fact that every day I make google searches like "boardwalk empire s04e07 torrent" has clued googletube into the fact that I'm not interested in paying for content
01:54:19 <kmc> on the other hand I've bought a fair amount of music through Google Play
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02:23:15 <Bike> https://archive.org/details/historicalsoftware
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03:17:05 <Sgeo> holy crap Microsoft Flight Simulator is ancient?
03:18:25 <Bike> ooh, i knew it was old but not that it predated windows.
03:18:39 <Bike> jesus, apple ii
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03:21:00 <Sgeo> I want to see the peter pan game
03:21:32 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdVPp6HccTY
03:22:36 <Sgeo> You drew a mouse with your mouse!
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03:23:30 <Bike> i ship winston and jazz
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03:44:54 <Bike> http://pastebin.com/8NrKrrd9 can anyone solve this puzzle
03:45:43 <Bike> it;s encrypted
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03:46:41 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ralist: not found
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03:52:42 <Fiora> Bike: http://eprint.iacr.org/2013/346.pdf
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03:54:11 <Bike> I have no idea what this says.
03:54:33 <Fiora> it's a thing where they cracked ECDSA on a smartcard
03:54:48 <Fiora> by using power analysis to get the low bits of each nonce used in the algorithm
03:55:06 <Fiora> and then making an algorithm to use that to get the key I think? I'm not entirely sure >_<
03:56:01 <Bike> power analysis meaning like, sidechannel?
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04:40:13 <Sgeo> What would a function language where you're discouraged from using identity directly be like?
04:41:25 <ion> https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1376474_10151598855976923_133257084_n.jpg
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05:06:02 <Sgeo> ($ $define! a-drastic-thought "One special form instead of zero -- alternatively, two kinds of sexprs, instead of one. One kind of combiner, instead of 2. Whether treated as applicative or operative depends on the form embedded in ($ or no $). No more accidentally exposing internals to operatives when expecting applicatives. Probably drastic deviations from Kernel needed to make workable. How do ($ ...) forms look as a sexpr to things that
05:06:02 <Sgeo> get passed them?"
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05:26:18 <Sgeo> Hmm, maybe ($ ...) is an olist
05:26:54 <Sgeo> (olist 1 (+ 1 2)) == ($ 1 3)
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06:00:44 <Sgeo> Need to write a C(++) program. It should embed an R(6/7)RS Scheme interpreter
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06:13:36 <kmc> [3112078.456689] cdc_acm 1-2:1.1: This device cannot do calls on its own. It is not a modem.
06:13:42 <kmc> you will not go to space today
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06:22:07 <shachaf> kmc: conal's talk today about parallel scans was good
06:22:35 <kmc> where was it
06:22:53 <shachaf> here are the slides: http://conal.net/talks/understanding-parallel-scan.pdf
06:22:59 <shachaf> but a lot of the talk was talking
06:24:52 <shachaf> i liked the thing about bottom-up trees and nonregular types and all that
06:26:04 <shachaf> i wonder what this non-regular freemonadish business is about
06:43:11 <kmc> "What's new in Google Voice: ... Added warning when attempting to send text messages to 911"
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08:02:13 <ais523> wow, that was scary/confusing for a while
08:02:37 <ais523> I tried to log onto the University computer system, and discovered my home directory didn't exist
08:02:52 <ais523> but it turned out that I'd connected via the teaching proxy out of habit, rather than the research proxy
08:02:58 <ais523> and given that I'm not teaching any more…
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10:40:16 <Taneb> It is simultaneously trivial and quite hard to do GEDCOM in Haskell
10:40:23 <Taneb> Because GEDCOM is pretty much a huge ADT
10:40:28 <Taneb> But a really huuuuge one
10:44:35 <Taneb> What is it with you and that thing you're into
10:55:21 <fizzie> "You must call TIC without an output argument before calling TOC without an input argument."
10:56:52 <Taneb> fizzie, that sounds suspiciously on-topic
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11:42:55 <fizzie> Taneb: No, no, it's just MATLAB.
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13:19:15 <boily> why? what happened?
13:19:48 <Taneb> I'm not eating very well
13:20:42 <Taneb> I am not very good at telling myself "Now is when you eat"
13:24:06 <Taneb> Why do we say "Turing complete" and not "Church complete"?
13:25:36 <boily> always eating, never eating, or eating the wrong things?
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13:38:33 <HackEgo> Mawu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
13:38:46 <Mawu> Anyone available for some clarifications on whitespace ? :-)
13:39:06 <oerjan> hm i don't particularly know whitespace, but maybe
13:40:03 <Mawu> I'm trying to write a simple tool in cpp that takes a string as parameter and output a whitespace script that output the string
13:40:28 <Mawu> But I'm having some trouble understanding the correct syntaxe of the PUSH (Space Space Tab [Number])
13:41:45 <oerjan> um i see no Tab in the spec
13:42:13 <fizzie> (It's a combination tutorial-spec.)
13:42:27 <oerjan> i guess. since i found no other spec.
13:42:49 <boily> that word should be homologated. I think the coffeescript docs do that.
13:43:03 <oerjan> but as i read it, it should be [Space Space [Number]]
13:45:07 <oerjan> also, it seems from the examples that the [Number] is in binary, with the initial 0=Space obligatory.
13:45:53 <oerjan> e.g. push 11 is [Space][Space][Space][Tab][Space][Tab][Tab][LF]
13:46:06 <fizzie> oerjan: The initial space is the sign.
13:46:21 <fizzie> "The sign of a number is given by its first character, [Space] for positive and [Tab] for negative."
13:46:38 <fizzie> That's the problem with tutoripecs, they're not always terribly well organized for a reference work.
13:47:12 <oerjan> right, i was confused because there was no table with the number syntax
13:47:48 <oerjan> Mawu: anyway, that's it, then [Space] [Space] [sign] [number in binary] [LF]
13:48:06 <oerjan> and sign=Space if positive.
13:49:30 <oerjan> "Many commands require numbers or labels as parameters. Numbers can be any number of bits wide, and are simply represented as a series of [Space] and [Tab], terminated by a [LF]. [Space] represents the binary digit 0, [Tab] represents 1. The sign of a number is given by its first character, [Space] for positive and [Tab] for negative. Note that this is not twos complement, it just indicates a sign."
13:49:36 <boily> what about labels' unicity? are they converted to numbers first, or is e.g. 0001 different from 1?
13:49:56 <oerjan> boily: not as i read it.
13:50:14 <oerjan> i mean, they're sequences of spaces and tabs, not numbers.
13:50:25 <boily> oh. just sequences.
13:50:44 <oerjan> "Labels are simply [LF] terminated lists of spaces and tabs. There is only one global namespace so all labels must be unique."
13:53:40 <Mawu> You guys are the best
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13:56:05 <Mawu> So to push 'H' (72 - 1001000) on the stack it would be : S S T (push) S (positive sign) T S S T S S S (1001000) ?
13:56:29 <oerjan> Mawu: there is no T in the push command
13:56:49 <oerjan> and you need a final LF.
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13:57:52 <Mawu> Oh right, the push is only a space
13:58:06 <oerjan> then that should be it
13:58:25 <Mawu> Oh and forgot a leading 0, no ?
13:58:36 <oerjan> Mawu: no, that was my mistake.
13:58:42 <oerjan> i didn't know about the sign.
13:59:16 <Mawu> 'cause on the whitespace tutorial it said that PUSH 1 is : S S S T LF
14:00:05 <oerjan> yes i was reading those examples too, but i misinterpreted it because there were no negative ones.
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14:02:23 <oerjan> <Bike> http://pastebin.com/8NrKrrd9 can anyone solve this puzzle <-- are you Mafingre and ban evading
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14:08:57 <boily> oerjan: is Mafingre one of the ion-lickers?
14:09:41 <oerjan> he's the guy who spams encryption puzzles
14:10:13 <boily> there are some weird people out there...
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14:51:54 <Taneb> Am I allowed to nominate another language to be featured?
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14:54:59 <oerjan> Taneb: yes, see talk page.
14:55:24 <oerjan> (i interpret that as yes.)
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14:59:51 <boily> @tell oerjan why the ocular suffering?
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16:43:42 <Taneb> I've almost finished the first season of Supernatural
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16:44:47 <Taneb> And now I'm going to make something to eat
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16:47:09 <quintopia> i'm paying someone to make me eats
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16:53:17 <nortti> do you know any good free ssh app for apple's iDevices?
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16:54:51 <boily> what the fungot is wrong with my system. back from lunch, and kernel panic.
16:54:51 <fungot> boily: http://asiekierka.boot-land.net/ fnord nice rating :) see ya, and thank you for your help
16:54:52 <quintopia> nortti: i used one once, it think.
16:55:09 <boily> quintopia: wrapped!
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16:55:41 <boily> you know, paper, colours, stuff, wrapped.
16:56:47 <boily> as in, you shall receive it shortly.
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17:01:34 <boily> home is where the fungot is, or something like that.
17:01:34 <fungot> boily: on plt scheme...
17:01:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
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17:01:43 <boily> fungot: I don't care about plt scheme.
17:01:43 <fungot> boily: ( new-if t 3 7)) can also be formulated using the fnord fnord alphabet! 8d things i'm interested in scheme-to-forth compilation as well; i don't know c++
17:02:06 <boily> fungot: is the fnord fnord alphabet related to tocharian B?
17:02:07 <fungot> boily: niec thing about mzscheme is how easy it is
17:02:32 <quintopia> fungot: i'll let mz know his scheme is so easy
17:02:33 <fungot> quintopia: open discussion about all things seems to change upon context... for instance
17:02:54 <quintopia> ah, good thing this discussion is CLOSED
17:02:57 <boily> thanks, Captain Fungobvious.
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17:04:26 <quintopia> fungot: remind me, are you -98 or -93?
17:04:27 <fungot> quintopia: ( because we got bored and wandered off.
17:05:17 <quintopia> where's a fizzie when you need one?
17:05:42 <boily> fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie ♪
17:06:33 <quintopia> i had a great idea with some other folks for a new esolang the other day
17:06:41 -!- Uguubee111118 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
17:06:55 <quintopia> with safety of C, the concision of Java, and the logic of PHP
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17:14:42 <quintopia> nortti: no. C++ has strong typing. this uses PHP-style typing. you can specify new types by giving their size explicitly. there is no pass-by-reference or name, just value. if you want to pass a function, you need to declare a type as big as the function, allocate enough memory to contain the function, and pass the entire block of memory containing the function. slightly safer than C i guess since there's no pointers.
17:15:14 <olsner> mix in haskell and use lazy evaluation for everything
17:15:34 <myname> quintopia: also, implicit casting with strange comparison operators
17:15:47 <quintopia> myname: like i said, the logic of PHP
17:16:26 <quintopia> also, for added safety, all functions have explicit logical contracts, assertions that must hold, else runtime error
17:16:45 <myname> also, every function should take at most 2 arguments
17:17:21 <quintopia> all functions take one argument: a Dictionary
17:18:00 <olsner> hmm, dictionary? that's too much like keyword arguments... maybe you could permute the function arguments of every function call in some way that depends on the call site?
17:18:02 <myname> that does not clutter your global namespace as much
17:18:27 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
17:18:50 <myname> like: instead of f(a,b,c,d) you have to call f(a,(b,c,d)) which calls g(b,(c,d)) which calls h(c,d)
17:19:19 * boily subtly enfizzies the wisdom repo
17:20:44 <quintopia> olsner: you have to allocate and construct the dictionary explicitly before every call. very Safe.
17:21:18 <olsner> a dictionary is just like keyword arguments though, it's excessively clear what goes where
17:21:30 <fizzie> boily: I accidentally marked the email announcing that as deleted, the subject line looked so spammy.
17:22:09 <quintopia> olsner: the dictionary allows only numerical keys
17:23:43 <myname> quintopia: suggestion from someone: implement exceptions but do not make stack unwielding
17:24:11 <nortti> how would exceptions even be implemented with that kind of system?
17:24:12 <quintopia> oh we had this figured out already
17:24:29 <quintopia> every function must explicitly declare a handler function for every possible exception
17:24:45 <quintopia> there is no "throwing up the handler hierarchy"
17:25:20 <quintopia> too easy to abuse exception hierarchies
17:26:10 <boily> throwing exceptions up is too traditional. you need to be able to throw exceptions sideways.
17:26:42 <Bike> throwing an exception makes a different thread handle it while the thrower just keeps charging along
17:27:01 <Jafet> Swallowing exceptions down
17:27:21 <Bike> i love you too
17:28:41 <quintopia> alos there are classesm but there's no protected/private/public stuff. every method and field explicitly references which other classes are allowed to use it. it's Fully General and Very Safe.
17:29:11 <boily> Jafet: with explicit “throws SomeException” à la Java, you could pile exception onto exception onto exception in callees' scopes :D
17:30:13 <Jafet> Lexical cereal scoop
17:30:31 <Jafet> It is possible that I am hungry
17:30:39 <quintopia> more than that. every field and method has both blacklists and whitelists of which classes can use it. if a class is not on one of the two lists, that is a runtime error
17:31:34 <Jafet> In my hunger, this sounds like crossing a compiler ir with jvm bytecode
17:34:34 <Bike> intermediate representation
17:35:08 <metasepia> ir definition: information retrieval.
17:38:25 <Jafet> Your class system needs to be more modular. Allow inner class definitions. However, classes can only refer to their inner classes, as any other access would violate encapsulation. This makes actual code reuse impossible.
17:39:18 <boily> of course you can reuse code. copypasta!
17:46:52 <olsner> you can also use macros or templates to generate copies of code
17:47:42 <Jafet> This can be alleviated if you introduce a language feature called something like "generics", but you don't have time to implement that just yet.
17:48:01 <boily> there should be something insaner than templates.
17:49:20 <olsner> PHP is well-known for its builtin template system - just use <? ?> to nest a block of code that prints code to put in the outer program
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17:58:37 <JWinslow23> I'm making my own MarioLANG 99 Bottles program that WORKS. Still working on the BF.
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18:07:21 * boily singularly stays subtly stoic, so silent...
18:07:43 <JWinslow23> OK, how do you make messages say stuff like that?
18:08:40 * JWinslow23 thanks avid for finding another time-waster
18:09:27 * JWinslow23 doesn't know what avid means by a "nod"
18:10:28 <Bike> acknowledgement
18:11:00 <boily> JWinslow23: don't listen to Bike. it's a kind of bird.
18:11:06 <JWinslow23> Well, I'm almost done with the beginning of the BF 99 Bottles program to convert to MarioLANG.
18:21:26 <Phantom_Hoover> your work ethic is far too good to be a true esolanger!
18:22:00 <JWinslow23> No, it's very hard! I just started a few minutes ago.
18:23:52 <Phantom_Hoover> the 'proof' of sumamoito's turing-completeness on the wiki is still a reference to the IRC logs of me and elliott sketching out an interpreter for BCT
18:27:26 <JWinslow23> >>>>++++++++++[<++++++++++>-]>+++++++++[<+++++++++++>-]>++++[<++++++++>-]>+++++++[<++++++++++++++>-]>>++++[<++++++++>-]+>++++++++++[<+++++++++++>-]>+++++++[<++++++++++++++>-]>>++++[<++++++++>-]+>++++++++++[<+++++++++++>-]>++++++++[<+++++++++++++>-]++++++++++>>>+++++++[<++++++++++++>-]+>++++++++[<++++++++++++>-]>++++[<++++++++>-]+>++++++++++[<+++++++++++>-]>++++[<+++++++++++>-]++++++++++>>+>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]+>++++++++++[<++++
18:27:52 <JWinslow23> Apparently 535 is over the IRC limit for lines.
18:28:32 <Phantom_Hoover> use sprunge.us or whatever if you need to move more code
18:28:56 <Jafet> Clearly you need to make the program shorter.
18:28:57 <nooodl> i like http://bpaste.net/
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18:29:23 <boily> long live pastebin.ca!
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18:35:21 <fizzie> JWinslow23: Made a brainfuck convert-o-matic: http://sprunge.us/KTUd
18:36:01 <Bike> haha, it's practically the same
18:36:35 <fizzie> Seems to work for 99 bottles, too.
18:36:44 <fizzie> It's not quite anywhere yet.
18:36:50 <fizzie> I'll need to put it somewhere.
18:37:07 <fizzie> sprunge links time out a bit too fast, which is a shame.
18:37:12 <JWinslow23> Also, I usually do .m instead of .mario
18:37:25 <fizzie> I don't think there's a standard extension.
18:37:46 <boily> JWinslow23: .m usually is some objective-C code.
18:37:58 <fizzie> boily: MATLAB, you peasant.
18:38:18 <boily> fizzie: I SHUN MATLAB.
18:38:54 <myname> fizzie: i do think you could make it more compact if you alternate directions on loops
18:39:56 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched ...
18:40:36 <myname> also, insert missing [
18:41:02 <myname> you will need preparsing for that
18:41:30 <fizzie> I suppose, but to reiterate, sounds a bit like work.
18:42:03 <JWinslow23> And the BF-MarioLANG thing, it works for nested loops?
18:42:03 <fizzie> I'm just wondering where to put this.
18:42:04 <myname> i do think the trickiest part is to get the width you can use
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18:42:34 <fizzie> JWinslow23: It works for 99bob, which has some nested loops, so presumably.
18:42:40 <JWinslow23> Also, is a quine POSSIBLE in MarioLANG?
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18:43:13 <myname> JWinslow23: go figure!
18:44:06 <myname> i doubt it, but i never wrote a quine ever
18:44:13 <JWinslow23> Do you know how far I got on a BF quine?
18:44:24 <Bike> "uh you have to be able to write a quine by kleene's recursion theorem"
18:46:44 <myname> JWinslow23: any idea on how mario should act if he hits a wall?
18:47:17 <Koen_> maybe just try to walk against it
18:47:30 <Koen_> with his legs moving but him staying in place
18:47:34 <JWinslow23> myname, Mario should just think of a wall as a "do not pass no matter what" command.
18:47:57 <Koen_> or maybe he's smart and decides to change direction when he hits a wall
18:48:02 <myname> JWinslow23: i.e. standing still and posibly repeat the active command unlimited?
18:48:24 <myname> Koen_: that would make @ pretty useless
18:48:29 <Koen_> also you should watch Under the Dome, it has plenty of cars crashing into walls
18:49:42 <myname> i may implement that, but i think it's pretty useless
18:50:08 <JWinslow23> Hey, I'm not WhiteWolf! I didn't put walls in the language!
18:51:36 <fizzie> https://gist.github.com/fis/7159823#file-bf2mario-py -- there you go.
18:52:04 <fizzie> In retrospect, adding the 99bob examples in there was kind of a bad, because they are first in sort order.
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18:53:42 <myname> lol, how many columns does it have
18:54:23 <myname> plenty of space for optimising
18:55:38 <Koen_> wait, do arrows allow Mario to fly?
18:55:52 <Koen_> "the arrow told me to go left, I DON'T CARE IF THERE'S NO GROUND"
18:56:26 <myname> Koen_: actually, in my implementation they do
18:56:27 <fizzie> Koen_: In the existing interpreter, I believe they do.
18:56:51 <myname> Koen_: do you consider this wrong?
18:57:00 <Koen_> well I guess that's consistent with the examples
18:57:17 <fizzie> myname: And I guess you can jump without standing, too?
18:57:18 <Koen_> I remember Mario jumping with ^ to reach an arrow
18:57:39 <Koen_> so ^ alone is an infinite loop?
19:00:25 <myname> also, elevators only lift to the closest on top, not to the topmost
19:00:56 <Koen_> can't they lift you down?
19:01:22 <myname> specification jut say, if it can move up, it will move up
19:01:51 <myname> but you can still do something like
19:02:14 <myname> the lowest elevator will move to the " above, not the topmost one
19:02:25 <myname> the higher elevator will move to the topmost "
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19:02:50 <Koen_> what if there's a third # on top of all this
19:02:52 <myname> if the topmost " wasn't there, both will move to the " between them
19:03:00 <Koen_> and Mario takes it first, so it has to move down to the first "
19:03:14 <Koen_> then Mario makes his way to the second #, will it still move up?
19:03:32 <Koen_> cause there's probably an elevator already occupying the upper "
19:03:44 <Koen_> so Mario would be crushed!
19:03:47 <myname> i did not consider them occupying
19:04:00 <Koen_> okay, imagine the following:
19:04:01 <myname> i.e. i assume they will move to their starting position
19:04:29 <myname> which is what you want in the bf2mario
19:04:39 <myname> because loops would be horrible otherwise
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19:05:53 <Koen_> http://pastebin.com/7zuhsdhm << so here, when Mario comes back
19:06:02 <Koen_> he will just fall?
19:06:23 <JWinslow23> I still don't know how to run the python script.
19:06:25 <Koen_> well I guess in that example that doesn't matter
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19:12:22 <Koen_> well do you have a python interpreter or compiler on your computer?
19:12:23 <Bike> bsaically like with ruby, but with 'python' instead of 'ruby' in the command
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19:15:40 <kmc> Bike: teaching by analogy
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19:16:50 <Bike> it'll never catch on
19:17:09 <fosap2> Hi. I'm looking for a JSON based language. It uses Json as a syntax as lisp uses s-expressions as syntax. I can't find it anymore
19:18:10 <fizzie> It probably would not need many changes for a 2.x Python, possibly only the print function thing.
19:19:18 <Bike> fosap2: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Myth ?
19:19:39 <JWinslow23> Never mind, works perfectly now that I know the syntax.
19:20:34 <Bike> well, tha'ts not really like lisp at al.
19:20:36 <fosap2> Bike: No, it was pretty boring, lispy.
19:20:57 <Bike> that seems to be the only article on the site mentioning json.
19:21:45 <fizzie> fosap2: http://www.jsol.org/ ?
19:23:26 <JWinslow23> Wow, and the generated code doesn't look valid. Not for 99BoB.
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19:35:54 <boily> I'd say learn French, but any language in “F” should be fine.
19:36:41 <Bike> F#, though, that's a shitty key
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19:42:11 <Bike> no, f sharp. you know, g flat
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19:42:35 <myname> JWinslow23: optimize the hell out of these 99 bottles
19:42:41 <JWinslow23> Maybe we can make an interpreter for Tic Tac Toe.
19:43:16 <JWinslow23> I will try to do something with the 99BoB program. Until then, I'll explore other stuff.
19:44:03 <JWinslow23> Can someone make an interpreter for Tic-Tac-Toe?
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19:46:18 <boily> JWinslow23: little quick question: why the 23? it mysteriously seems to be a popular nick suffix, as with ais523.
19:47:36 <boily> @tell ais523 were you born in Undecember?
19:47:51 <JWinslow23> Someone should do something with http://esolangs.org/wiki/Drive-In_Window, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Pancake_Stack, and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tic_Tac_Toe.
19:48:09 <JWinslow23> Until then, I'm on the wiki regularly, so post stuff on the talk pages.
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21:04:13 <fizzie> Was Googling for [[ "compaq presario cds633" price ]] (we had one, was trying to locate a price) -- got 5 results, of which one was from #esoteric logs.
21:04:23 <fizzie> Presumably after this two of them will be.
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21:17:41 <myname> Koen_: bit late, but mario will just stay on top of the "
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21:19:22 <myname> Koen_: is that something you don't agree to? the example code in the wiki looks a lot like " are solid
21:20:40 <fizzie> I sort of thought that "intuitively" the "s in the example were solid because the elevator as a whole has risen.
21:21:08 <fizzie> But that's not the sort of thing that one'd like to implement.
21:21:13 <myname> that would be pretty hard to implement in comparison
21:22:35 <myname> also it would break nearly every code in the discussion that uses loops
21:25:04 <fizzie> Many of them tend to have explicit arrows over all "s so I don't think it'd matter all that much. (Disclaimer: haven't looked at the discussion so much.)
21:25:04 <myname> i.e. if you assume that the elevator rises and will stay on top so you can walk over it, you could not use it another time because you would get squeezed until you bring it back down (which is pretty useless) OR you make the spot where the elevator was non-blocking which i find a bit unintuitive
21:26:26 <fizzie> It could just move back immediately when you get off the "s. But I admit that's a bit vague.
21:27:19 <Koen_> myname: well I had always assumed the elevator really was moving
21:27:37 <Koen_> so basically, the # and " get switched
21:28:08 <myname> Koen_: how do you get back down? you should have a ! both on top and on bottom
21:28:46 <fizzie> I'm sure it's *possible*. Especially if the elevator moves as a whole slab. It'd just make writing loops really quite annoying.
21:28:50 <myname> it would make 1-wide elevators practically useless
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21:29:05 <myname> yeah, and interpreting it, too
21:29:21 <Koen_> well then we have to use 2-wide elevators
21:29:28 <myname> i may try that, but personally i do not find it very relevant
21:29:38 <Koen_> no, but that's more realistic
21:29:45 <Koen_> the elevator really moved
21:29:48 <Bike> i thought they moved like elevators in SMB.
21:30:05 <Bike> you know, an infinite stream in one directionn.
21:30:14 <myname> Bike: that's what i thought, too
21:30:27 <myname> i imagined the " more like a point where you get off
21:31:04 <fizzie> So how was your interpretation of walking over "s? Drops down unless there's an explicit arrow?
21:31:56 <myname> i just assumed you walk over one bar of the infinite stream
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21:32:43 <fizzie> Arguably that kind of means that you'd proceed horizontally every time you enter an elevator "shaft".
21:34:05 <fizzie> Well, I mean, like http://sprunge.us/EZPH
21:34:26 <lambdabot> boily said 6h 34m 35s ago: why the ocular suffering?
21:34:34 <fizzie> If the """s are just drop-off markers and you walk over them because you'd walk over one bar of the infinite stream, the same should logically apply to all intervening spaces.
21:34:43 <Koen_> I thought having a ! over a # was needed because the relative speeds of the elevator and mario were unspecified
21:35:03 <oerjan> @tell boily i've had an unusal amount of eye strain and problems of focusing the last few days.
21:35:26 <myname> fizzie: in theory, yes, but that would make timing relevant, which is really annoying for both the coder and the interpreter
21:35:41 <Koen_> so if mario enters an elevator without stopping, we won't know at which altitude he walks out (and probably falls)
21:35:55 <fizzie> myname: It would not make timing any more relevant than the way you can walk across ###s and """s without moving vertically at all unless you stop in place.
21:36:44 <myname> fizzie: you say you should just "disable gravity" between " and #?
21:36:47 <oerjan> @tell boily right now also a slight headache, despite just sitting down at the laptop. might be connected. also i'm worried it might be because i've taken _too much_ painkillers lately.
21:37:04 <fizzie> myname: I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying there's an argument to be made for that, in the name of "realism".
21:38:06 <fizzie> (Though if one went that far, a floating ! on the same height should also probably make Mario rise up.)
21:38:11 <myname> fizzie: that would be the most realistic and implementable way i can think of
21:38:43 <myname> also it shouldn't break anything existing
21:39:02 <myname> likely i will implement that
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21:41:17 <Koen_> maybe not disable gravity, but trigger the elevator
21:41:35 <Koen_> so the elevator will start moving up when you step between it and "
21:41:47 <Koen_> exactly as if you had stepped exactly over the #
21:42:48 <Koen_> so mario will either be lifted up to the ", (because he fell onto the moving-up elevator), or walk out of the column at some point (if he did not encounter a !)
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21:43:25 <Koen_> I seem to recall the specifications explicitly stating that the relative speeds of mario's and the elevator's were unspecified
21:43:43 <Koen_> so the coder shouldn't know if mario manages to jump out of the elevator or not
21:44:13 <myname> that would be a great source to create randomness
21:44:42 <Koen_> well, "unspecified" and "random" aren't exactly synonyms
21:45:19 <myname> but "unspecified" can also mean "it has a different speed whenever you move onto it"
21:45:38 <fizzie> All the (related) existing code probably does assume you can walk over an arbitrary sequence of ###s without moving vertically at all, unless you explicitly stop.
21:46:13 <Koen_> you can if mario is infinitely faster than the elevator :)
21:46:32 <fizzie> Another thing I was sort of wondering when writing the bf thing (it turned out to be not relevant) is whether "[ x" should skip over the x or not (if it would skip at all). It just says "next command".
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21:47:33 <myname> fizzie: interesting, my current implementation actually just ignores the next cell, whatever that is
21:47:39 <oerjan> i recall when making Malbolge Unshackled, i took great pains to ensure the unspecified length increase could not be relied on to be either random or not random.
21:47:44 <fizzie> Oh, that was to the earlier comment.
21:47:47 <myname> fizzie: the code that looks like you can walk over ###
21:48:28 <fizzie> Well, all the [! kind of things do seem to assume you can at least walk over a single # without moving up/down.
21:48:58 <fizzie> I guess that's about it.
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21:49:07 <fizzie> It's not like there's a large body of MarioLANG code around.
21:49:19 <oerjan> Unshackled.hs:76:9: parse error on input `<-' <-- seems it needs some updating.
21:49:34 <myname> so you could say it moves the tick after you move on top of it
21:49:47 <olsner> hmm, found a 90MB file called music.raw in a random directory
21:49:52 <olsner> I wonder what it is and which format
21:50:59 <fizzie> If you buy the "endless stream, always in motion" argument, the official elevator example kind of assumes that you can walk over """ without anything nasty (like falling down a bit when the elevator disappears or whatever it does) happening.
21:51:13 <fizzie> olsner: Raw PCM tends to be quite easy to identify.
21:51:55 <olsner> ah, aplay -f cd did play it ... I suspect demo music, but I don't recognize it
21:52:01 <myname> fizzie: if should however make it possible to walk over any gap between " and #
21:52:08 <fizzie> (Basically just "go with whatever sample size and endianness that gives you small numbers at the beginning/end and a reasonable-looking envelope overall".)
21:52:08 <myname> because the elevator could be there
21:52:20 <kmc> TIL there's a wchar_t version of memmove(3), namely wmemmove(3)
21:53:22 <kmc> I guess its semantics differ if your buffers overlap by half of a wchar_t?
21:54:12 <fizzie> wchar_t * __wmemmove (s1, s2, n) wchar_t *s1; const wchar_t *s2; size_t n; { return (wchar_t *) memmove ((char *) s1, (char *) s2, n * sizeof (wchar_t)); } weak_alias (__wmemmove, wmemmove)
21:54:24 <kmc> maybe not, then
21:54:30 <kmc> i'm slightly scared that you have libc source handy like that
21:54:30 <fizzie> I'm sure there's probably a good reason why that doesn't have a prototype.
21:54:53 <kmc> glibc contains code known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects, and other reproductive harm
21:55:10 <olsner> hmm, I suspect two wchar_t* aren't allowed to overlap with half a wchar in general
21:55:13 <Fiora> I wonder why that exists
21:55:16 <kmc> Rust should support a #[prop_65]; annotation
21:55:26 <Bike> public service announcement: there is an extinct coelacanth genus called "Rebellatrix". en public service announcement
21:56:20 <kmc> a byte-at-a-time left-to-right memcpy is also a correct memmove right?
21:56:24 <Bike> doesn't rust just cause tetanus?
21:56:35 <olsner> I think the direction depends on where the overlap is
21:56:41 <Bike> well, not "just", tetanus is pretty nasty.
21:56:56 <olsner> Bike: rust doesn't cause tetanus, tetanus does
21:57:00 <kmc> olsner: oh, I guess so :/
21:57:06 <fizzie> A correct memmove is a correct memcpy, however.
21:57:43 <fizzie> (For all them lazy people.)
21:58:21 <Bike> i associate tetanus with stabbing myself with rusty nails. i wonder why that is
21:58:25 <kmc> I guess memmove just copies in one direction or the other
21:58:36 <kmc> based on comparing the pointers first
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21:58:45 <Bike> tetanus is a weird disorder btw
21:58:55 <shachaf> memmove should delete the old memory, clearly. otherwise it's copying
21:59:09 <Bike> "he rust itself does not cause tetanus nor does it contain more C. tetani bacteria. The rough surface of rusty metal merely provides a prime habitat for C. tetani endospores to reside in, and the nail affords a means to puncture skin and deliver endospores deep within the body at the site of the wound." oh
21:59:11 <shachaf> and it should just remap pages when it can
21:59:25 <fizzie> kmc: Fun fact: you can't compare the pointers in a strictly-portable-C implementation of memmove, because they might point to different objects.
21:59:48 <shachaf> fizzie: Is it possible to write memmove in strictly-portable-C?
22:00:09 <Bike> so rust doesn't /cause/ tetanus, just provides a prime habitat for (organisms which in turn generate neurotoxins which in turn generate) tetanus.
22:00:19 <fizzie> shachaf: I think it is, it just takes O(n) memory.
22:00:22 <Bike> please factor this into #[prop_65]
22:00:25 <kmc> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57608585-93/is-google-building-a-hulking-floating-data-center-in-sf-bay/ they have a large barge with a radio antenna tower on it that they can charge up and discharge
22:00:30 <olsner> hmm, is memmove supposed to work across different objects?
22:00:40 <shachaf> fizzie: Oh, right, copy to a separate buffer first.
22:00:44 <fizzie> olsner: Sure, why not?
22:01:17 <shachaf> memmove ought to be the default.
22:01:26 <shachaf> Which is why it's the default in Rust!
22:01:34 <olsner> fizzie: maybe to allow memmove to be implemented efficiently in pure c?
22:01:58 <olsner> or perhaps just to be asses in general and make more stuff undefined
22:02:09 <fizzie> olsner: "memmove -- Copies n characters from the object pointed to by s2 into the object pointed to by s1. Copying takes place as if the n characters from the object pointed to by s2 are first copied into a temporary array of n characters that does not overlap the objects blah blah blah."
22:02:14 <shachaf> olsner: It would be much less useful that way.
22:02:41 <olsner> shachaf: that was pretty much why I suspected it might be the case
22:04:27 <fizzie> Some people might prefer there to be a third memcpy/memmove variant that's always a bytewise left-to-right copy, though, because you can do repeating things with it.
22:04:59 <fizzie> Maybe it's a bit of a niche.
22:05:38 * oerjan fixed Unshackled.hs (it just needed a couple of LANGUAGE pragmas. well probably. i didn't actually _run_ it, just compile.), for all those waiting to program it.
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22:06:01 <kmc> shachaf: did you see that Rust passed issue #10,000 recently
22:06:02 <kmc> hi zzo38 !
22:06:06 <kmc> how are you?
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22:06:29 <zzo38> I am OK, do you have another question?
22:06:44 <Bike> Yes. Do you think "Rebellatrix" is a cool name.
22:07:01 <olsner> fizzie: used often enough for compression that it would probably be useful to apply some of all the work that went into memcpy on that
22:07:13 <Bike> A coelacanth genus.
22:07:25 <shachaf> kmc: that's a lot of issues
22:08:32 <shachaf> oh, php passed 2^16 bugs recently
22:08:36 <shachaf> according to https://bugs.php.net/
22:08:40 <fizzie> olsner: I presume lot of the work (all those SSE copy things) is rather inapplicable. But I guess they could do *something* clever about it. (On the other hand, it might be a generic "memrepeat" interface, because that has more freedom for implementation perhaps.)
22:08:59 <fizzie> I hope they celebrated bug #65536.
22:09:29 <fizzie> "Bug #65536: getimagesize() returning wrong value for IMG_PNG"
22:09:34 <fizzie> That sounds kind of boring.
22:10:06 <fizzie> "Thank you for taking the time to write to us, but this is not a bug."
22:10:27 <olsner> at work we got to build 65536 just the other day
22:10:28 <fizzie> "Thank you for playing. Better luck next time!"
22:10:35 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
22:11:31 <olsner> (fun fact: the field of symbian's version thingy (we used) to put build numbers in is a signed 16-bit int)
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22:13:24 <fizzie> Fun fact: tried to run some HTK-using scripts today, and was missing a file list file, so somehow something somewhere decided to use all the files in my home directory (recursively) as the source features.
22:13:37 <fizzie> That included a lot of pdfs, jpegs and whatnot.
22:13:53 <fizzie> Not sure if it's HTK's fault or the (third-party) scripts' fault.
22:14:15 <Bike> that's impressive
22:14:56 <olsner> sounds like a potentially interesting use of markov thingies, if it could manage to produce working jpegs and pdfs from it
22:15:31 <fizzie> Sadly, it just complained of every file that it isn't a HTK parameter file.
22:16:03 <kmc> olsner: yeah, my friend had the same problem (do you work at moka5.com ???)
22:16:12 <kmc> olsner: this was the basis of their rush project to switch to Git
22:16:42 <olsner> I do not work at moka5.com :)
22:17:46 <olsner> we rageswitched to Git when creating branches started taking a whole day
22:18:13 <fizzie> taskFiles=`ls *tmp* ` # okay, it's the third-party script.
22:18:20 <olsner> (after some time of preparing for a reasonable migration, though)
22:18:23 <fizzie> (It managed to go to ~/tmp/ with that.)
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22:19:09 <fizzie> Because of tmpDir=`mktemp -d -p $(dirname $scpFile)` failing and cd $tmpDir being a plain "cd", I think.
22:19:21 <fizzie> (scpFile is the file that wasn't there.)
22:21:42 <fizzie> htkallas@spa-ws160:~$ ls
22:21:43 <fizzie> C:\nppdf32Log\debuglog.txt
22:21:47 <fizzie> That thing is kind of annoying me.
22:22:46 <olsner> I wonder how many commits there are in total on (e.g.) github
22:23:06 <fizzie> (I think it's a fopen("C:\\nppdf32Log\\debuglog.txt", "w"); somewhere, and their mechanism for enabling logging is for the user to make that directory, because they assume the fopen to fail if it doesn't exist.)
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22:26:24 <oerjan> <fizzie> (scpFile is the file that wasn't there.) <-- sounds likely, but which scp is it.
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22:30:06 <fizzie> olsner: 65341534 PushEvents in the http://www.githubarchive.org/ timeline, according to a fancy Google BigQuery thingathing.
22:30:24 <fizzie> (I don't know what these events are.)
22:30:40 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/HZBg anyway.
22:31:17 <fizzie> It's collecting statistics on the timeline thing, so no counting of individual commits, sadly.
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22:56:08 <zzo38> I did have the idea, of a kind of MUD game. One is that each character (both PC and NPC) belong to an account, and each account has no more than one character. Account names are separate from character names. If your character dies you can either create a new one or accept a resurrection if someone does it (which costs a lot, though). PCs and NPCs are mostly treated equivalently, although PCs are characters owned by an account that owns itself.
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22:58:09 <zzo38> To calculate experience points earned if one character kills another, first calculate the "kill score", which is: $$k={\rm max}\left(\left\lfloor pf{\rm e}^{\root3\of{v_L-(v_W+v'_W)}}-x_W\right\rfloor,x_W+1\right)$$ where k = kill score, p = PK multipler, f = effort multiplier, v_L = loser's character value, v_W = winner's character value, v'_W = winner's artificial value, x_W = winner's experience level.
23:00:11 <zzo38> After that, look up the pair of the winner and loser's account numbers (not character numbers) in the kill high score table, and subtract that from the kill score in order to determine how many experience points the winner earns (if it is negative, it is truncated to zero). If this kill score is greater than the recorded value it is then updated.
23:02:10 <zzo38> The PK multiplier is 250 if NPC kills NPC, 1000 if PC kills NPC or NPC kills PC, and 4000 if PC kills PC. The effort multiplier is a number from 1 to 2 depending on how hard you try to win.
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23:02:37 <zzo38> Character value is calculated by adding and multiplying things such as ability scores, species, skills, etc.
23:02:40 <zzo38> Do you like this so far?
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23:06:27 <Koen_> zzo38: how do battle happen?
23:06:52 <zzo38> Koen_: Well, you have to find someone and attack them, or cause them to be dead in another way.
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23:07:37 <zzo38> Or they do it to you instead, if that is the case.
23:07:49 <Koen_> I think the attack mechanisms are more important than the formula used to calculate the experience points!
23:08:38 <zzo38> Yes, I just mentioning how to calculate XP for now. Quests are worth a lot more than battles, although quests too would have a high score table so that you cannot gain the points again each time.
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23:10:24 <zzo38> In addition, when you create a new character in the same account, your new character can start at any start point you have unlocked, can have a level anywhere from zero to one less than your old character's level, and any options for the character's name, skills, species, ability scores, etc are automatically filled in but can be edited.
23:12:11 <zzo38> If killed more than twice in succession you aren't forced to lose more than two levels though; it is limited to two. In addition, the new character is invulnerable to being killed by any account that has killed your account in the past five minutes (unless you are in the home of whoever killed you).
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23:15:56 <zzo38> All of these rules are designed to avoid getting too many experience points by killing the same guy over again a lot of times and to avoid someone stopping you from passing some point with every new character you create.
23:16:41 <zzo38> Players who have been disconnected for 60 seconds cannot be attacked but may still be robbed.
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23:21:14 <zzo38> There are no PK-safe areas. Player killing is allowed everywhere, and is worth more points than attacking NPCs, so it is worth it. It is legitimate to hide and kill someone when they are attempting a quest so that you can do it instead, to band with another player and then fight them when they least expect it, and so on; these are all considered legitimate tactics.
23:22:49 <zzo38> Is these specification OK for you so far?
23:24:04 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of game so far? I wanted to play but didn't find any
23:24:39 <Koen_> the only thing I can think of is urbandead
23:26:21 <Koen_> there are no npc though
23:26:37 <zzo38> In addition, changes to the environment are permanent, not reset like in many games (so some quests may be impossible to complete more than once), it is alignmentless, there can be human character and monster character and many other kind, also class-less, no auto-fight-back, and you need not use all of your points to create a character; you can discard some.
23:27:01 <zzo38> If you die, you lose all of your money, bank, equipment, etc, but if your new character can find where your old one died you may be able to rob the corpse.
23:27:23 <zzo38> (Your score is kept, and so are all of your options.)
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23:28:48 <Koen_> though this may be heavy on the memory if players die a lot?
23:29:10 <Koen_> since you'd have to store all the corpses and things they were carrying
23:29:50 <zzo38> Yes, although corpses can decompose, objects can be destroyed, etc
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23:33:39 <zzo38> And piles of equivalent things can be stored as a single record
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23:50:03 <kmc> zzo38: is \left( supported in Plain TeX?
23:50:05 <kmc> I did not know
23:50:36 <zzo38> kmc: \left and \right are primitive TeX commands.
23:52:12 <kmc> why does memset(3) take its byte argument as an 'int'?
23:53:01 <nortti> normal c convention, maybe
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23:53:31 <Bike> i thought C used chars as bytes (and ints as characters)
23:53:58 <Fiora> is it specified what happens if you pass memset smoething bigger than a byte?
23:54:34 <shachaf> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5919735/why-does-memset-take-an-int-instead-of-a-char has a suggestion
23:55:15 <Bike> that's uh, hm.
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23:55:34 <Koen_> fiora: void *memset(void *b, int c, size_t len); The memset() function writes len bytes of value c (converted to an unsigned char) to the byte string b.
23:55:35 <Bike> answers fiora's question too.
23:57:47 <kmc> i was wondering if it had something to do with ambiguous signedness of char, but you could always write 'unsigned char'
23:57:58 <kmc> ah "Without a prototype, you can't pass a char to a function" welp
23:59:10 <Koen_> I guess without a prototype you can't pass onlything except ints
23:59:28 <Koen_> I wonder how that works if you need a pointer