00:02:15 <HackEgo> aeoldcoin immentheoncoin olerankcoin aarecoin glypecoin taxiccoin corumcoin abcdxcoin evisincoin cvlcoin singcoin bam1coin smatyracoin beitcoin mkmbccoin phabetcoin checoin vernatocoin boenamcoin viotecoin
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00:18:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zerk * New user account
00:22:47 <boily> http://boingboing.net/2014/04/09/breather-is-like-an-airbnb-by.html ← that is an idea eagerly waiting for a disaster...
00:22:55 <boily> (but hey, I can get some in Montréal!)
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00:49:40 <boily> Sgeo: people are random. everything can happen. like, everything.
00:54:54 <Bike> https://twitter.com/tavisrudd/status/454044086547136512/photo/1/large good news everyone, i have found the best programming psychology paper yet.
00:55:44 <Bike> kind of funny that i saw this right after hunting down (!) a spreadsheet bug by following a chain of dependencies
01:01:49 <HackEgo> ensiscoin lazycoin vasscoin mizatifcoin intecoin poincoin lockzufcoin lyacoin clubcoin bracoin martrecoin l3250coin procoin skycoin mumontecoin dd/ddcoin eta-julietzstreactcoin charmancoin binarycoin huntedcoin
01:02:14 * boily gives a poincoin to Bike
01:02:24 <kmc> poutinecoin
01:02:45 <ion> Lazycoin leaves the mining to the entity exchanging something else for lazycoin.
01:02:50 <Bike> (relatedly, fuck excel)
01:03:36 <ion> Excel is a fine demo platform. http://youtu.be/4xKllypfn20
01:03:53 <kmc> http://nayuki.eigenstate.org/page/aes-cipher-internals-in-excel
01:04:33 <Bike> i think, if i somehow got leeway to teach a class to actual human beings, it would be about how to simplify your science homework by programming things
01:04:34 <quintopia> you didn't sendn me a birthday present!
01:04:37 <Bike> here's your reaction ordres bla bla
01:05:32 <Bike> oh my god, is this double buffering via sheets?
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01:07:47 <Bike> it just seems a bit embarassing that "tangent line" is a concept that needs to be worked through in college
01:08:46 <boily> I had a nice galvaude Monday night. (I know I shouldn't, cause I always have weird dreams afterwads and it wreaks my digestion, but it tastes so good...)
01:09:09 <kmc> weird dreams eh?
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01:10:45 <boily> kmc: poutine-induced dreams are interesting, to say the least. when you upgrade to a galvaude, anything goes.
01:11:03 <kmc> i'll have to try that sometime
01:11:20 <kmc> I rarely remember interesting dreams despite sleeping under the influence of all manner of psychoactive compounds
01:11:29 <kmc> but poutine might beat them all
01:11:40 <Bike> >implying poutine isn't psychoactive
01:11:40 <boily> have you ever had poutine?
01:12:07 <kmc> but it was american poutine
01:12:14 <elliott> please. don't make me want to take off +c
01:12:18 <kmc> so maybe it doesn't have the je ne sais quoi
01:12:39 <kmc> also a lot of my friends are headed to your fair city, boily
01:12:46 <kmc> for Pie Khan
01:13:00 * boily mapoles the cuttle
01:13:22 <boily> kmc: what's a pie khan?
01:13:32 <boily> (also, for you next poutine, add duck meat and green peas.)
01:13:44 <boily> (only frozen peas. canned peas are no good.)
01:13:59 <boily> ah, that thing my friend from Québec City is coming over too.
01:14:29 <kmc> it sounds fun and friendly
01:14:30 <Bike> elliott: here's where i greentext you a bunch in a futile effort to jok'e
01:14:34 <Bike> (not going to do this obviously)
01:14:45 <quintopia> a friend of man came to atlanta for pycon a couple years back, and decided to come when i was out of the country :(
01:14:46 <kmc> maybe I'll go someday, even though I don't give much of a shit about python
01:14:53 <kmc> a friend of man
01:14:57 <kmc> a title to which I aspire
01:15:34 <kmc> coppro: no, montréal
01:15:36 <ion> “Belle later confirmed the existence of the Z(4430) with a significance of 5.2 sigma on the scale that particle physicists use to describe the certainty of a result.”
01:15:39 <ion> “sigmificance” FTFY
01:15:43 <coppro> kmc: that's still in QC
01:15:55 <boily> coppro: you Ontarian :P
01:15:56 <kmc> I assumed that meant Quebec City
01:16:00 <kmc> truly I have made an ass out of u and me
01:17:17 <boily> kmc: one important French thing people learn here is the difference between «au Québec» and «à Québec».
01:17:18 <Bike> today i learned that a friend's advisor thought results were significant because they had non-overlapping SE bars. stats sure is hard.
01:17:59 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z%284430%29 that's a lot of sigmificance
01:18:33 <kmc> boily: what is it
01:18:48 <boily> kmc: the former refers to the province, the latter to the city.
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01:21:09 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay physics is impossible
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01:28:19 <Sgeo> "All shamen are at your disposal"
01:29:42 <Bike> What are shamen?
01:32:38 <Sgeo> plural of shaman I assume. Or the lyrics sites I looked at are wrong
01:32:59 <Bike> false friends >:|
01:33:52 <Sgeo> Same song talks about stimulating your third eye
01:34:31 <kmc> that doesn't sound sexual at all
01:34:33 <ion> Eat a single raman noodle
01:35:45 <ion> men should be an alias to man -a
01:35:50 <kmc> in college we had fake majors listed on our dorm doors and douglass_ at one point had "Ramen Spectroscopy"
01:36:35 <ion> What was yours?
01:37:01 <Sgeo> Wiktionary lists shamen as a hypercorrect plural of shaman. And apparently hypercorrect is a subset of incorrect
01:37:20 <kmc> i don't remember
01:37:22 <kmc> something less funny
01:37:28 <Bike> "shaman" is from some language near siberia or mongolia
01:37:36 <Bike> nothing to do with german plurals
01:37:50 <lexande> kmc: they never gave me my "hobotopy theory" one
01:38:14 <ion> Toby the hobo
01:38:27 <Sgeo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3WFrQzYJOY
01:38:55 <Sgeo> The only reason I care about this song is because I think it's a song I heard briefly on PulsRadio in 2006, but streamripper never manaaged to capture it
01:40:10 <kmc> that doesn't really explain anything
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01:43:25 <ion> kmc: Would it help if you combine that explanation with an OCD?
01:46:18 <Sgeo> I don't think I have OCD. Although I do sometimes worry what if I didn't lock the door. And when I was a kid, I once recorded each die roll in a game of Monopoly because I wanted it to be reproducible (not in those worse). Randomness freaked me out
01:47:03 <Sgeo> Before then, played Monopoly on the computer with friends, but when most of my friends left, another friend and I played out the game a bit more and caused someone who wasn't there to go bankrupt
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01:52:22 <Bike> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/180162 aaaaaaaaaaah
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01:56:41 <kmc> the 1904 date system is a plot by the pope
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03:00:05 <Sgeo> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.openbsd.misc/211963
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03:00:26 <Sgeo> Had this not occurred, I assume heartbleed would instead be an easy DoS attack?
03:00:40 <Sgeo> Oh, probably just on OpenBSD?
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03:02:31 <pikhq> It also would've been easily noticed.
03:06:42 <Sgeo> "malloc guarding (world is not ready for this)"
03:32:43 <Sgeo> "Let me reiterate - everybody who was ever taught anything about that green padlock - grandmothers, bosses, school kids, web devs, everyone - now thinks that it means something it doesn’t, and won’t mean what they think again until all those server-babies are replaced."
03:33:05 <Sgeo> Any chance of browser vendors agreeing to not show the security lock for sites affected by Heartbleed?
03:33:18 <Sgeo> Although, how to detect site that was vulnerable, repaired bug, didn't yet get new certificates
03:33:35 <Jafet> That would require shipping an exploit for heartbleed
03:33:44 <Jafet> That would also require giving a shit
03:33:47 <Bike> a tree planted upside-down
03:34:24 <Jafet> Bosses and web devs are a lost cause anyway
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03:38:31 <Bike> and do you know where your cause is?
03:42:25 <Sgeo> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=994033
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03:50:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39276&oldid=39275 * Doesthiswork * (-9) I couldn't get the Y combinator to terminate so I'm using a different way to get a fixed point
03:52:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39277&oldid=39276 * Doesthiswork * (+1) left off a bracket
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04:05:10 <Sgeo> I'm seriously tempted to start using LastPass
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04:34:04 <Sgeo> I don't trust myself to make backups
04:41:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39278&oldid=39277 * Doesthiswork * (+3) added missing :-
04:54:27 <quintopia> i'm mostly tempted to write my own custom deterministic password generator
04:55:50 <kmc> base64(HMAC-SHA256(master key, website domain name))[:16]
04:56:00 <kmc> should do nicely
04:56:06 <Jafet> alias pw='echo -n "> " && stty -echo && (read pw && echo -n "$pw" | sha256sum | head -c 20 && echo; stty echo)'
04:56:13 <quintopia> kmc: i don't want to have to depend on a master key
04:56:35 <Jafet> What do you want to depend on, then
04:56:36 <Sgeo> I used to use hashapass
04:56:45 <Sgeo> Found I couldn't remember the names I gave each site
04:57:07 <kmc> if only there were some hierarchical name structure associated with websites
04:57:12 <Jafet> Why don't you use the name the site gives itself
04:57:16 <quintopia> Jafet: gestures which are different for each domain
04:57:20 <Jafet> Most sites have that
04:57:55 <Jafet> How are you going to come up with the gestures
04:58:00 <Sgeo> I also have no list of every website that I have made a password for
04:58:11 <Sgeo> This has been problematic before and it's problematic now
04:58:30 <kmc> my gesture for every site would be a big ol' middle finger
04:58:35 <quintopia> Jafet: generate a custom image automatically and deterministically, and use my innate sense of location and visual memory to recall the gesture associated with it
04:59:11 <Jafet> My sense of location is pretty exnate, but ok
04:59:54 <Jafet> Wait, passgestures, is this one of those "phone"isms
05:01:05 <fizzie> I'm a bit surprised nobody has asked for TLS to happen for esolangs.org.
05:01:06 <Jafet> Speak friend and slide to unlock
05:01:48 <quintopia> Jafet: that's unusual. most animal memories are location-based
05:01:50 <Sgeo> Does LastPass not work well for nonwebsite passwords?
05:02:01 <quintopia> "i recognize this place. the last time i was here i ...."
05:07:31 <Jafet> echo stty intr ^M >> ~/.bashrc
05:09:12 <shachaf> i'm going to need to do the pick-a-distribution thing again soon
05:09:51 <Jafet> For some reason, I can bypass ^J with C-^J.
05:09:52 <Sgeo> What's wrong with nixos?
05:10:48 <kmc> running «stty intr ^C < /dev/pts/1» in another terminal is enough to let me run one command, but then it resets
05:10:58 <kmc> perhaps bash is saving and restoring the termios stuff
05:11:26 <newsham> perhaps its applying it to the wrong pty?
05:11:49 <shachaf> Then why would it be enough for one command?
05:12:04 <newsham> i dunno.. i dont understand computers
05:12:07 <Sgeo> You should use Bedrock Linux, and run a banking website from it
05:13:11 <shachaf> i run enough websites for a lifetime
05:15:32 <newsham> after a while they run you
05:20:52 <kmc> echo 'echo "sleep 0.1" >> ~/.bashrc' >> ~/.bashrc
05:21:14 <Jafet> Who came up with that originally
05:22:09 <Bike> heh, that's good.
05:22:10 <shachaf> it has been around for at least 20 years
05:22:23 <newsham> so each time you log in it gets slower?
05:23:07 <kmc> microsoft gotta get paid
05:24:05 <shachaf> http://www.dorje.com/netstuff/folklore/the.tricks
05:27:06 <shachaf> 20 years ago was an odd time
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05:27:10 <newsham> i once wrote a program which would recurse into all subdirs and in each subdir it would list files that werent dirs and randomly rename them to each other
05:27:21 <newsham> so that you still had all the same files but with different filenames
05:27:29 <newsham> (err, dirs were renamed too, oops)
05:28:06 <shachaf> did everyone have signatures on their messages back then
05:29:19 <newsham> a time of .plans and .signatures
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05:32:18 <shachaf> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sources.wanted/3o-Ej2pyvQ8/eSwcgvJWDT4J
05:33:24 <Jafet> It's a bit disturbing that most of those tricks are still applicable.
05:34:24 <newsham> jafet: but who uses multi-user systems these days?
05:35:11 <newsham> wow, schachaf, thats a really old post
05:36:42 <newsham> i wondr if that was my first usenet post evar
05:37:25 <shachaf> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.minix/pHRCC5JKCV8/4irAi_sYsZwJ was earlier
05:37:28 <shachaf> "(please respond in mail so as not to waste bandwidth)"
05:37:43 <shachaf> i'll stop looking for old newshamposts now
05:38:20 <newsham> thats a year later, shachaf
05:38:24 <olsner> oh, right, it's newsgroups, not a mailing list
05:39:36 <newsham> i think i got my unix account in fall 1989. i didnt find usenet right away
05:39:45 <shachaf> ok, then https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.fractals/xLXAGFDRcwY/L4FJBhoEi3QJ
05:40:14 <shachaf> all these things are from before i was born
05:43:04 <Bike> I got hit by a letter.
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05:57:53 <newsham> "A co-worker has his plan file end with
05:57:54 <newsham> [2] - Done /bin/rm -rf ~ &
05:57:54 <newsham> which tends to induce heart-attacks in the unwary...
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06:17:51 <fizzie> I think I had something esolangy in my .plan at the university shell servers.
06:17:57 <fizzie> Probably a Befunge program.
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06:57:39 <atriq> I wonder if I should learn Forth
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08:14:54 <fizzie> If there can be a payer paying a payee, and an employer employing an employee, and so on, why is the thing what a mentor does to a mentee called "mentoring" and not "menting"?
08:16:07 <fizzie> OED: "mentee, n. Etymology: < ment- (in mentor n.) + -ee suffix1. orig. U.S. A person who has a mentor; the person guided or tutored by a mentor."
08:16:57 <fizzie> One of the downstairs info screens was promoting some university mentoring program with a logo that said "mentor", "mentoring", "mentee" in it.
08:17:17 <Jafet> Hmm, I suppose you could claim "ment".
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10:02:38 <fizzie> >> mean(cleancep, 2).'
10:02:38 <fizzie> -Inf NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN
10:02:42 <fizzie> Best mean vector ever.
10:03:50 <oerjan> it's so mean it just says NaN NaN NaN at you
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10:20:59 <ion> fizzie: nice
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18:08:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A programming language is an artificial language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39279&oldid=39269 * 38.96.153.66 * (+2) /* Overview */ formatting
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18:09:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A programming language is an artificial language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39280&oldid=39279 * Rottytooth * (+2) formatting
18:10:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A programming language is an artificial language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39281&oldid=39280 * Rottytooth * (+44) /* Concept */
18:13:24 <fizzie> For the record, the [-Inf NaN NaN ...] mean was from having some hard zeros. (Which got turned into -Inf by a log compression step, and NaNs by a DCT.)
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18:24:44 <ion> fizzie: Try applying some heat, they might get softer.
18:25:57 <fizzie> I applied an arbitrary epsilon. It wasn't for anything serious.
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18:40:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Wiki dumps]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39282&oldid=30687 * Fizzie * (+74) Time zones are the bane of all civilized folk. (+update numbers)
18:54:25 <kmc> the ECMAScript standards committee is meeting just down the hall from me
18:54:33 <kmc> clearly I should go in and troll them about adding dependent types or something
18:56:46 <fizzie> Someone was thinking of doing some kind of Rust promotion lecture at the university.
18:57:06 <kmc> i,i integer promotion lecture
19:00:37 <fizzie> I haven't been following the ECMAScript standardization effort at all, except that I remember I've been surprised several times to find out that those Mozilla additions (generators, array comprehensions, let expressions, expression closures) still aren't standard and/or widely supported.
19:01:01 <fizzie> I guess it all has something to do with this Harmony thing I've heard of.
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19:21:37 <doesthiswork> kmc: I double dare you to troll the ecmascript standards commity
19:22:30 <Bike> "hey peeps, how's ur assembly going"
19:29:13 <ion> kmc: You should go in and troll them about the things mentioned in the wat talk.
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19:31:45 <quintopia> i haven't seen that talk in a long time
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19:33:23 <ion> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bk3uviICYAAvnWo.jpg:large
19:33:39 <Slereah_> That is what the future will be like
19:34:13 <int-e> Bike: you are aware of http://asmjs.org/ right?
19:34:47 <Bike> doesn't kmc work with it
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19:36:33 <ion> slereah: http://www.windowsphonefr.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/micro-sd.jpg
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19:38:57 <fizzie> ion: Next, find a photo that's analogous to that tiny tiny keyboard on the watch.
19:40:04 <Slereah_> Also find a tiny console-based computer
19:40:28 <Slereah_> I don't think the iPhone would sell as well if it was all command line
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19:40:47 <ion> http://www.buysku.com/wholesale/q8-dual-sim-quad-band-1-5-quot-touch-screen-watch-cell-phone-with-keyboard-camera-bluetooth-fm-mp3-mp4-white.html
19:41:01 <b_jonas> ok, so I have a crazy idea about an esoteric virtual machine
19:42:08 <b_jonas> suppose you have a cpu with very few registers, say only an instruction pointer, an accumulator, and an index/extra register.
19:42:24 <b_jonas> imagine it has a reasonable small instruction set, but there's one crippling feature.
19:42:27 <Slereah_> Imagine a dude talking to SIRI in console commands
19:43:43 <Bike> so far this is 6502?
19:44:01 <fizzie> Bike: I think it's intentional, and the twist is yet to come.
19:44:28 <b_jonas> the feature is that interrupts are handled in a crazy way: when an interrupt arrives, the cpu overwrites each of the few registers is overwritten by interrupt-related information without saving it first. the ip is set to the interrupt handler address, the accumulator to the interrupt number, and the index register to some port input from the hardware.
19:44:47 <b_jonas> there's some limit for how quickly you can get interrupts or else you would have to lose some.
19:44:52 <b_jonas> and you can't disable interrupts.
19:45:04 <b_jonas> Bike: like 6502 but with wider word size
19:45:28 <b_jonas> so you have to do all normal computations in an idempotent way because an interrupt can destroy your registers any time
19:45:53 <Bike> well, the isa can't be 6502, then
19:46:16 <b_jonas> after the interrupt, the os will resume your program at some last saved location, but since then your program might have done some steps
19:46:23 <b_jonas> so you can't do destructive computations in place
19:46:30 <b_jonas> because then they might run twice
19:46:51 <b_jonas> but you can do non-in-place operations, then in the worst case you recompute the part since last time you saved the status to memory
19:48:05 <fizzie> It sounds likely that you'd end up with some translator from a non-crazy thing to the crazy thing, with some amount of overhead, and then you'd do all the work in the non-crazy thing.
19:48:29 <b_jonas> fizzie: possible, if you don't mind the overhead
19:48:42 <b_jonas> but for the inner loops you might want to code for the crazy thing directly
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19:50:53 <b_jonas> yeah, it's not a really good idea
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20:03:47 <kmc> i don't use asm.js for anything at the moment
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20:08:15 <kmc> but it's another Mozilla Research project
20:08:28 <kmc> somebody needs to get the .js TLD
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20:11:32 <kmc> fizzie: you can write such translators for most esolangs, though
20:12:00 <fizzie> Yes, I was commenting from the viewpoint of some hypothetical poor soul hired to port a game on the hypothetical computer, or something.
20:12:40 <kmc> I've never designed a proper esolang
20:12:45 <kmc> maybe I should try my hand at an eso-ISA instead
20:13:17 <kmc> though a lot of esolangs feel like machine code
20:13:42 <kmc> are there real ISAs with Brainfuck-style structured control instructions?
20:14:04 <kmc> that is, you have "loop begin" and "loop end" instructions and the CPU will scan forward/backward in memory to find a matching one
20:15:13 <fizzie> Regarding the .js TLD, I think you'd need to beat up someone at ICANN for it.
20:15:36 <fizzie> Because I think they reserved all 2-character ASCII strings for "possible future ccTLD delegations".
20:15:36 <kmc> x86 has the LOOP instruction but it still has an explicit jump target
20:16:11 <kmc> fizzie: or I need to create an internationally breakaway state whose plausible abbreviation is '.js'
20:16:21 <kmc> internationally recognized*
20:18:45 <fizzie> kmc: ISTR the TMS320C54x (or some other member of TMS320) has a "repeat block" instruction, but you give the block size as an immediate argument to the instruction.
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20:19:57 <fizzie> (Then the instruction initializes the "repeat block" register to contain the size and the end address, sets the "repeat counter" register, and the hardware arranges for the repetition to happen.)
20:19:59 <kmc> now I'm thinking about a weird mash-up of x86's rep and Thumb2's i[te]{1,4} instructions
20:20:32 <kmc> ooh, that TMS320C54x thing seems pretty close
20:20:36 <kmc> I don't know much about DSP architectures
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20:24:06 <kmc> I also wonder if a "conditionalize any instruction" prefix was ever considered for x86
20:24:08 <fizzie> Oh, if you want to be more exact about it, "RPTB pmad" sets RSA and REA (repeat start/end address) to PC+2 and pmad, respectively, and turns the BRAF (block-repeat active flag) on; you're supposed to have manually set the BRC (block-repeat counter) beforehand.
20:24:26 <kmc> BRAF is a great name for a register
20:24:46 <kmc> and pmad is a great name for an operand
20:24:48 <fizzie> Sadly, it's just a name of a bit in ST1.
20:24:58 <kmc> I take it you've programmed for the TMS320C54x?
20:24:58 <fizzie> But there's a lot of "pmad"s in the manual.
20:25:05 <kmc> is there also "umad"
20:25:45 <fizzie> There's just dmad, extpmad and pmad.
20:26:07 <fizzie> And I've done a little bit for it; we had a three-architecture DSP course with randomly assigned architectures for the groupwork.
20:26:53 <kmc> what did you build?
20:27:49 <fizzie> There was a TI TMS320C5416 devboard (what we had), a Motorola DSP56k thing of something or another, and a Sharc ADSP which was I think some sort of a musician DSP effect box with a twiddleable knob and all.
20:28:05 <fizzie> We built an echo effect thingie. Just a second, I have a photo I've pasted on-channel before.
20:29:22 <kmc> a button to touch, a dial to turn, a key to hold
20:30:23 <fizzie> Our devboard just had four dip switches and four leds in terms of UI, so we had to figure out alternative controls.
20:30:32 <fizzie> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140410-spank.jpg
20:31:07 <fizzie> (We had to do a three-slide presentation at the end of the course, that was one of the slides.)
20:32:21 <fizzie> Also it's called "spank" because the name of the course was "SPÄNK", short for "signaaliprosessorit ja äänenkäsittely", "[digital] signal processors and sound processing".
20:33:39 <kmc> SPÄNK sounds like something from IKEA's line of sex toys
20:35:11 <fizzie> If I recall correctly, the top-left thing was a Perl + Tk prototype for figuring out the algorithm and parameters, the middle picture shows the DSP devboard and the TI-86 driven slider control interface, and top-right is a photo of the oscilloscope we used when we spent two nights debugging the DSP/TI-86 link that turned out to be a broken cable I had salvaged from a discarded set of speakers ...
20:35:17 <fizzie> ... that, when I finally came to think of it, were in fact discarded because no sound came out of them.
20:35:44 <ion> fizzie: Do you know of a no-horribly-expensive DSP platform for a hobbyist? Perhaps with an ADAT interface or some other way to add an AD/DA interface (possibly with preamps) with a number of channels.
20:37:52 <fizzie> (Also I couldn't quite manage to convince the (really quite flexible) C5416 "McBSP" serial port to give me the TI-86 stuff over DMA, so we had to resort to software polling.)
20:38:13 <fizzie> ion: One of the boxes we had on the course was the http://www.chameleon.synth.net/english/index.shtml but I think that must be pretty outdated by now?
20:38:50 <fizzie> "Only a few units remain, --" I guess they're not really selling it any more either.
20:38:52 <ion> Thanks, i’ll take a look.
20:39:42 <fizzie> It seemed like quite a nice thing for that sort of thing. Though I don't know if it was ever what you'd call affordable.
20:41:02 <fizzie> There are reasonably cheap devkits similar to the C5416 one we had, but their I/O capabilities might be somewhat lacking, if you want multiple AD/DA channels.
20:41:54 <ion> 8 inputs would be nice.
20:44:06 <fizzie> They're things like http://www.ti.com/tool/tmdx5502ezdsp for $89, but at least that particular one just has two channels in/out when it comes to audio codecs.
20:44:15 <fizzie> Some of them have add-on modules you can stick on, though.
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20:50:03 <fizzie> A friend wrote the Z80 code for the TI-86 side.
20:50:25 <fizzie> (I wrote the DSP side of the communications stuff.)
20:52:11 <fizzie> Actually, I'm a bit surprised if there isn't a Kickstarter for something like that Soundart Chameleon around.
20:55:41 <ion> fizzie: Thanks for the pointer, i’ll research them add-on modules.
20:56:09 <fizzie> From a quick look, it seemed like the "DSK" boards that accepted them rather quickly went to several hundreds of dollars.
20:57:25 <ion> Ok, a bit too expensive then. Thanks anyway.
20:57:39 <fizzie> As one final note, Analog Devices' SigmaDSP evaluation boards are a bit more fully featured when it comes to built-in analog inputs/outputs -- http://www.analog.com/en/processors-dsp/sigmadsp/products/sigmadsp_evaluation_boards/fca.html -- but they're not exactly cheap either.
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21:05:46 <fizzie> Fun fact: there's a reasonably "general-purpose" TI TMS320C64x (the aspires-to-VLIW-but-not-quite sibling to the C54x family) DSP core in my N900, and I keep thinking of trying to hack together something using it, but so far haven't managed to.
21:06:00 <fizzie> I know the stock camera application encodes JPGs on it.
21:07:34 <kmc> can you easily program it?
21:08:07 <fizzie> Not "easily", but people have done it up to some degree. The communications to/from it are somewhat torturous, AIUI.
21:10:12 <fizzie> It was a relatively common OMAP3 feature, I believe; I don't know if it's any easier/harder to access on the myriad other OMAP3 devices. (From OMAP4 onwards, I think TI gave up on including a generic DSP chip like that, and just bundled one of their more video-specific things.)
21:13:11 <fizzie> They're still making those "DaVinci" family of SoCs that bundle a C6x DSP with an ARM core, and people are still using them, I believe, in things like media player boxes and such.
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21:15:21 <fizzie> There seems to be at least hacked-together port of the (Mozilla-funded!) C64x+ implementation of Theora to the N900.
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21:17:10 <fizzie> http://schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/
21:17:43 <fizzie> And then -> http://blog.mjg.im/2010/04/16/theora-on-n900.html to N900.
21:17:55 <fizzie> Probably not much happening there these days.
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21:19:43 <ion> Someone should write a C64 emulator on C64x+
21:23:59 <ion> “Videotape evidence can be overruled by the testimony and after-the-fact interpretation of a police officer, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled last week.” http://thenewspaper.com/news/43/4373.asp
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22:05:31 <shachaf> http://git-man-page-generator.lokaltog.net/
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22:09:39 <doesthiswork> the spitbol manual says that it has esoteric features
22:12:57 <oerjan> i liked the --increase-blast-area option i got
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22:31:05 <quintopia> it means i can sort of chat a bit until 7:40
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22:31:39 <boily> DCSS!!!!!1!!1!11!!!one!!
22:33:12 <boily> dungeon crawl stone soup. and you're lucky, 0.14 is just out!
22:33:38 <boily> (okay. I *may* be a little bit addicted to that game. only slightly. a smidge.)
22:33:55 <boily> but then, I also have spent many hours on minecraft...
22:34:13 <boily> I haven't brogued yet, but it seems very interesting, what with all those colours and shiny stuff.
22:34:40 <quintopia> it is more like a roguelike than any platformer out there
22:35:03 <doesthiswork> the colors are there to make it feel as if you are really walking thought the cave
22:35:15 <boily> spelunky is very roguelike-y. procedural, stupid deaths, bonus impossible stuff...
22:36:19 <quintopia> i want to play spelunky crossed with DF
22:36:39 <boily> holy fungot with the hardcore stuff, batman!
22:36:39 <fungot> boily: it's a logic system in scheme, lists are a pair of identifiers except by accident.
22:36:49 <boily> fungot: no, quintopia is not logical.
22:36:49 <fungot> boily: vim isn't exactly snappy on slower systems either.
22:36:52 <doesthiswork> wouldn't a functional game be in a better state than a procedural one?
22:37:35 <nooodl> hey boily this might interest you,
22:37:49 <quintopia> boily: it would be the hardest game ever written, but "fun"
22:37:52 <nooodl> and `telnet termcast.org`
22:37:54 <doesthiswork> how would you cross a platformer like spelunky with a strategy game like df?
22:38:20 <boily> nooodl: I hate you, tempting me with awesome time-sucking things like that.
22:41:17 <quintopia> doesthiswork: how do you cross an adventure game like Alice with an RTS like C&C? (The answer is Brutal Legend)
22:41:47 <quintopia> in other words: i haven't thought about it enough to know, but i'll know it when i see it.
22:44:05 <quintopia> anyway, i specifically mean real time games
22:50:54 <quintopia> procedural generation of worlds, including their history, culture, climates, biomes, etc. independent agents with their own goals, able to modify the world in physically realistic ways.
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