00:07:04 <oerjan> ok let's say that's enough then
00:12:37 <oerjan> `run echo hi | TEST="" cat "$TEST"
00:12:38 <HackEgo> cat: : No such file or directory
00:13:09 <oerjan> is there a way to make no argument when the string is empty?
00:14:40 <oerjan> `run echo hi | TEST="hi ho" cat "$TEST"
00:14:40 <HackEgo> cat: : No such file or directory
00:15:27 <oerjan> `run echo hi | TEST="hi ho" echo "$TEST"
00:15:40 <oerjan> `` echo hi | TEST="hi ho" echo "$TEST"
00:15:53 <oerjan> why did it think that was the syntax
00:17:08 <oerjan> `run echo "test" >"hi ho"
00:17:15 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/hi%20ho
00:21:47 <oerjan> oh i can just use - as default
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00:24:16 <oerjan> `echo hi | run cat -- -
00:24:21 <oerjan> `run echo hi | run cat -- -
00:24:21 <HackEgo> bash: run: command not found
00:24:30 <oerjan> `run echo hi | cat -- -
00:24:45 <oerjan> maybe brain isn't entirely working.
00:25:33 <int-e> `` function f { echo /$1/ /$TEST/; }; TEST=23; TEST=42 f $TEST
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00:37:35 <kmc> "One rapper likes big butts and cannot lie. One rapper likes small butts and always lies. One rapper likes all butts but shares your inability to assess butt size, and will answer yes or no at random if asked whether a butt is big or small."
00:37:40 <kmc> http://ethicalwerewolf.blogspot.com/2011/02/puzzle-about-your-butt.html
00:39:08 <kmc> i got there from http://lesswrong.com/lw/acy/acausal_romance/ which I got by googling "acausal sex" which I'm going to blame lexande for
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00:44:35 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/paste
00:44:38 <HackEgo> 2014-04-20 00:44:36 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/paste [246/246] -> "paste.1" [1]
00:45:12 <HackEgo> /hackenv/paste.1: line 4: syntax error near unexpected token `else' \ /hackenv/paste.1: line 4: `else'
00:45:42 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/paste
00:45:43 <HackEgo> 2014-04-20 00:45:41 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/paste [255/255] -> "paste.2" [1]
00:46:00 <HackEgo> /hackenv/paste.1: line 4: syntax error near unexpected token `else' \ /hackenv/paste.1: line 4: `else'
00:46:08 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/test
00:46:25 <oerjan> `./paste.2 /hackenv/url
00:46:26 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/url
00:46:48 <oerjan> `run echo test | ./paste.2
00:46:50 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.29682
00:48:02 <oerjan> `paste /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/sandbox
00:48:02 <HackEgo> File is outside hg repository.
00:48:35 <oerjan> `./paste.2 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/sandbox
00:48:37 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.20962
00:49:11 <oerjan> `run mv paste.2 bin/paste; rm paste.1
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00:52:59 <oerjan> fizzie: so now `paste will fallback to the piping method for files outside /hackenv
00:56:09 <oerjan> int-e: originally it always used the piping method, but then i realized a long time ago it was stupid to copy files which were already in the repository.
00:56:54 <oerjan> but i didn't bother to treat the special case of a file name which was _outside_ it.
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01:12:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39380&oldid=39378 * 72.28.222.28 * (+80) Added makey-makey interpeter
01:18:08 <Bike> http://www.synacktiv.com/ressources/TCP32764_backdoor_again.pdf security
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01:23:28 <kmc> birdman kicked my ass
01:24:59 <HackEgo> beltercincoin nhofondcoin hunterconveyorcoin brevcoin korzacoin beatcoin 59074250346.9987377coin nufcoin grincoin bulicoin 0x2903coin exancoin pavitcoin octycoin convcoin villcoin musgescacoin franocoin itformcoin afficcoin
01:26:59 <boily> we're going to have our own Québecoin → http://journalmetro.com/actualites/national/481461/le-quebec-aura-sa-monnaie-nationale-virtuelle/
01:29:05 <int-e> how would you deliever 59074250346.9987377 coins?
01:54:04 <int-e> Ah, the Day of the Tentacle way.
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01:56:11 <kmc> this is one of the few situations where fake barf *isn't* useful
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02:38:00 <oerjan> :t let (.:) = (.).(.) in (.: sequence)
02:38:03 <lambdabot> ([a1] -> c) -> [a -> a1] -> a -> c
02:40:07 <Bike> well i'm confused.
02:40:31 <oerjan> what is confusing you.
02:40:52 <Bike> how flip sequence exists
02:41:10 <oerjan> by the power of the (->) a Monad instance.
02:41:24 <Bike> ohhhhh. that's kinda nasty
02:41:48 <oerjan> yeah but it's the simplest way to apply all of a list of functions to a value.
02:42:21 <lambdabot> Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b
02:42:37 <oerjan> unless you use that one from lens.
02:43:48 <oerjan> i am hoping they will add ?? to Data.Functor.
02:44:31 <oerjan> and & to Data.Function
02:44:50 <oerjan> hm perhaps i should check if they have
02:45:02 <elliott> it was decided against a while ago
02:46:45 <oerjan> i think ?? should belong in the Functor/Applicative hierarchy, it's just a missing variant of <$> <*>
02:47:06 <oerjan> although it's of course badly named for that
02:47:38 <Bike> surely it is badly named in general
02:48:31 <oerjan> but alas the naming scheme for functor and applicative operators doesn't imply any obvious spot to put it.
02:49:13 <oerjan> because all of <* *> <$ $> have been taken for something else
02:49:50 <oerjan> ideally you'd have made <$> something assymetric that you could have mirrored
02:52:55 <lambdabot> ‘%’ (imported from Data.Ratio), ‘%~’ (imported from Control.Lens)
02:53:05 <lambdabot> Profunctor p => Setting p s t a b -> p a b -> s -> t
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02:53:30 <lambdabot> (MonadState s m, Profunctor p) => Setting p s s a b -> p a b -> m ()
02:53:41 <lambdabot> ‘==’ (imported from Data.Eq), ‘#~’ (imported from Control.Lens),
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02:53:53 <kmc> oerjan: <€>
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03:01:22 <elliott> oerjan: ski wishes (<$>) was (<$), I think
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03:12:34 <oerjan> elliott: that's still not a logical way to take care of the whole set.
03:13:05 <elliott> I remember now, he wanted (<*>) = (<$>)
03:13:14 <elliott> so fmap would be (<$) and I don't think he cares about (<*)/(*>)
03:13:24 <elliott> he thought (<*>) should be liftA2 (*) I think :P
03:13:35 <elliott> (since (<$>) would be liftA2 ($))
03:13:55 <oerjan> i think in that case it would actually be more logica to let fmap be $> if current (<*>) were <$>
03:14:23 <oerjan> because leaving out a < or > would then mean the argument on that side is pure
03:14:57 <oerjan> and then ?? would be <$
03:15:36 <elliott> (<$>) for ap would make applicative style code even uglier than it is now though.
03:16:31 <oerjan> in order to fit current <$ $> <* *> into that system it would be necessary to have operators for const and flip const to put inside
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03:21:28 <oerjan> |*| for <*>, *| for <$>, |>| for *> (and >>), |<| for <*, |> for $> and <| for <$
03:22:20 <Sgeo> Why was & decided against?
03:22:54 <Bike> way too squiggly
03:23:19 <oerjan> if a recent discussion someone said that they've decided against including trivially writeable operators
03:23:34 <Bike> trivial, the greatest term
03:23:34 <oerjan> or trivial operators which people can write themselves
03:24:09 <Sgeo> :/ standardization is a good thing
03:24:30 <Sgeo> Also, what of trivially writable functions?
03:24:44 <Bike> what's the diff
03:25:21 <Sgeo> operators = infix by default, non-operators = prefix by default
03:26:06 <Sgeo> But they obviously haven't decided that id should be removed
03:27:52 <oerjan> it's not about removing stuff, it's about not adding more
03:28:29 <oerjan> because there are too _many_ things that can be added.
03:31:17 <elliott> oerjan: you might as well just add idiom brackets, when getting that radical
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03:40:11 <Sgeo> How about idiom brackets with tagging 'impure' instead of 'pure' values (yeah yeah, bad nominclature)
04:02:17 <oerjan> no, nominclature is bad nomenclature hth
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06:00:11 <Sgeo> http://www.icanbarelydraw.com/comic/2702
06:02:00 <Sgeo> Hmm, I seem to have stumbled upon some arc looking at modern day money as though it was new and bitcoin was standard
06:02:05 <Bike> comic not funny. furthermore, they can't draw at all. i demand a refund.
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07:49:29 <shachaf> Taneb: have you heard of the Taneb-calculus
07:50:33 <Taneb> But Taneb isn't a greek letter!
07:50:58 <shachaf> shachaf never said Taneb was a greek letter
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08:06:06 <fizzie> @tell oerjan If we're going to be that fancy, I fixed `url to use os.path.abspath so that e.g. `url /bin/../hackenv/test works.
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08:23:36 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory \ not lately; try `seen Phantom_Hoover ever
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08:47:35 <ais523> :t \m -> \n -> (\f -> f(m)(f(n)(\z -> z)))(\x -> (\y -> y))
08:47:38 <ais523> ) :t \m -> \n -> (\f -> f(m)(f(n)(\z -> z)))(\x -> (\y -> y))
08:47:38 <jconn> ais523: |syntax error
08:47:39 <jconn> ais523: | :t\m->\n->(\f->f(m)(f(n)(\z->z)))(\x->( \y->y))
08:47:44 <ais523> ( :t \m -> \n -> (\f -> f(m)(f(n)(\z -> z)))(\x -> (\y -> y))
08:47:48 <idris-ircslave> :t \m -> \n -> (\f -> f(m)(f(n)(\z -> z)))(\x -> (\y -> y))<EOF>
08:47:49 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
08:48:00 <ais523> ( \m -> \n -> (\f -> f(m)(f(n)(\z -> z)))(\x -> (\y -> y))
08:48:00 <idris-ircslave> \m -> \n -> (\f -> f(m)(f(n)(\z -> z)))(\x -> (\y -> y))<EOF>
08:48:08 <ais523> how do I do a lambda in Idris?
08:48:18 <ais523> ( \m => \n => (\f => f(m)(f(n)(\z => z)))(\x => (\y => y))
08:48:19 <idris-ircslave> (input):1:40:When elaborating an application of constructor __infer:
08:48:32 <ais523> I think that's correct syntax, but perhps a buggy interp
08:48:51 <ais523> either that or it's trying to evaluate a higher-order function without arguments available
08:51:51 <ais523> btw, any Haskellites around here, is it possible to get Haskell to infer the correct type for that term (t -> t1 -> t2 -> t2)?
08:55:02 <shachaf> Oh, I see, you want a rank-2 type for the \f lambda.
08:59:13 <shachaf> Your Haskell code is very unidiomatic.
08:59:32 <shachaf> You can annotate the type explicitly to get the type you want.
08:59:56 <shachaf> :t \m n -> ((\(f :: forall a x. a -> x -> x) -> f m (f n id))) (\x -> id)
09:02:05 <ais523> shachaf: it's not Haskell code, it's typed lambda calculus
09:02:27 <ais523> I'm glad that it's possible to make it work the way I wanted, though
09:02:33 <shachaf> I think f(x) application is unidiomatic there too.
09:02:43 <shachaf> (I just meant syntactically.)
09:03:03 <ais523> I know, but Haskell allows the parens there and I wanted to make sure I got the term right
09:03:13 <ais523> because it's busy defeating something like three years of research
09:04:50 <ais523> type systems that describe programs, rather than limit them
09:12:28 <shachaf> Hmm, building idris uses quite a bit of RAM.
09:13:08 <shachaf> In fact, this is ridiculous.
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10:43:44 <Taneb> Help I am suddenly really self conscious about my arms
10:45:04 <ais523> Taneb: that happened to me a while back, it went away after a few months
10:45:15 <Taneb> ais523, my arms are really tiny
10:45:25 <ais523> I just kept noticing that they existed
10:45:32 <ais523> and got in the way while I was trying to lie in bed
10:45:40 <ais523> however, I need them much of the time
10:45:44 <Taneb> Doesn't everyone feel that?
10:45:49 <ais523> so I thought it might be nice if they were retractable
10:48:29 <Taneb> That would be nice
10:53:30 <int-e> Taneb: I don't know. Limbs are just there when one needs them.
10:54:36 <Taneb> int-e, this ain't no MS Paint Adventure
10:55:11 <int-e> I'm not usually conscious of them otherwise.
10:55:24 <int-e> So in a very real sense, yes.
10:55:29 <Taneb> Oh yeah, I need to write up that esolang I made last night
10:55:52 <int-e> ... "real" is such a nice word ...
10:56:33 <int-e> (Does it refer to reality or realization? People assume the former when often it's the latter.)
10:57:05 <Taneb> int-e, it of course always refers to Madrid's football team
10:58:14 <int-e> (That team is another example of something that I'm not usually conscious about.)
11:06:25 <b_jonas> if you're not conscious on hardware attached to you, work on reading system logs
11:07:34 <ais523> b_jonas: I read them recently to try to fix a network issue
11:07:44 <ais523> noticed a warning message, and then got Rosegarden working properly
11:09:09 <ais523> (the problem was that Pulseaudio was trying to create a dotfile in Timidity's root-owned home directory; I gave it a Timidity-owned .config to put it in)
11:12:41 <int-e> kmc: stupid underspecified logic puzzles. what do the liar or the truth-teller do if they cannot answer a question according to their truth attitude? E.g. what does the liar answer to "Is your answer to this question 'yes'?"?
11:13:35 <b_jonas> int-e: http://www.xkcd.com/246/
11:14:14 <int-e> is "would you say that this is the exit" considered to be a tricky question?
11:14:41 <int-e> (subtle, yes, but common enough in english)
11:20:01 <ais523> int-e: yeah, that's my favourite answer to the "solve the liar/truthteller puzzle without it sounding like a tricky question"
11:20:03 <int-e> Oh. Three exits and I guess you only get one question, and then self-referentiality becomes unavoidable.
11:20:21 <ais523> or the more explicit, and still idiomatic, "if I asked you if this door leads to the exit, what would you say?"
11:21:18 <int-e> (self-referentiality being a reference to the question actually being asked, rather than a simpler, hypothetical question)
11:22:04 <ais523> now I'm wondering if the three-door version is possible if you talk to a liar; it's clearly impossible with a true or false question, unless one of the options is to prevent them answering at all
11:23:05 <int-e> ais523: which brings me back to my complaint about underspecified logic puzzles.
11:23:28 <int-e> ais523: Obviously with just two answers, you cannot distinguish more than two possibilities.
11:23:50 <ais523> well, unless you circumvent the "two answers" requirement
11:24:01 <int-e> (the complaint is about this one: http://ethicalwerewolf.blogspot.co.at/2011/02/puzzle-about-your-butt.html )
11:25:52 <int-e> Which is a bit subtler, but it's easy to say that again, with just two answers, "yes" and "no", you cannot draw any conclusions in some cases, namely when the "random" rapper happens to give the opposite answer of the truthteller or liar.
11:26:14 <int-e> I meant "easy to see"
11:27:48 <b_jonas> you can ask different questions from them
11:28:26 <int-e> "they are willing to collectively entertain exactly one yes-or-no question from you, to which they will each give an answer."
11:29:28 <int-e> b_jonas: but it wouldn't help, since the question you ask the random rapper does not affect her answer.
11:29:34 <b_jonas> int-e: but can't that one question depend on who answers, like if you'd ask "do you like my butt?"
11:29:53 <b_jonas> can't you just ask something like "do you like my butt but not all butts?"
11:29:57 <fizzie> int-e: It's not random answers in general, it's just random if a particular butt is big or small.
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11:30:15 <b_jonas> or "is it true that you don't like all butts but my butt is small?"
11:30:45 <int-e> b_jonas: ah but does he lie or not? it doesn't say, so we can't know
11:31:11 <fizzie> I assumed the third rapper didn't lie, but it's indeed not specified.
11:31:43 <int-e> anyway, you are right, it could be limited to preferences about butts. strange.
11:32:00 * int-e adds that to the list of unspecified details.
11:32:22 <b_jonas> int-e: that one is specified, it says "All the rappers know all other facts relevant to the situation, including everyone's identity and butt preferences."
11:32:56 <int-e> . o O ( you may know, but you can't tell )
11:33:08 <b_jonas> (NB. the comments give a solution)
11:33:26 <b_jonas> int-e: but it says "they are willing to collectively entertain exactly one yes-or-no question from you, to which they will each give an answer"
11:34:29 <b_jonas> at least the two simpler ones will tell
11:38:59 <int-e> Yes, that does look like the intended answer.
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14:20:14 <edwardk> kmc: are you going to bayhac this year?
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15:03:29 <olsner> "I love C++ [...] because it is intuitive and very high-level."
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15:05:44 <ais523> does the omission change the meaning of the sentence?
15:07:31 <olsner> fwiw, the omission was "not because it is fast, but"
15:17:39 <mroman> I don't agree with his definition of "very high-level"
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15:31:06 <ais523> I think the sentence was quoted on the basis that olsner expected pretty much everyone to disagree with it
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16:13:37 <Jafet> I love C++ (not because it is fast, as it is not, but) because it is intuitive and very high-level (compared to motorola 68k assembly)
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16:17:14 <b_jonas> I love C++ because it can be very high level or very low level depending on how you're using it
16:20:13 <int-e> Heh. Lost Vikings is tough.
16:21:27 <b_jonas> int-e: read a walkthrough to know all the clevery hidden secret passages
16:21:40 <b_jonas> Lost Vikings is one of the few games I've beat completely. twice.
16:21:52 <int-e> (I'm back on the spaceship, which should be the final set of levels.)
16:22:43 <b_jonas> I like the Lost Vikings because it has a nice difficulty curve: the levels get progressively more and more difficult
16:23:13 <b_jonas> the last level (MSTR) is the most difficult, the one before (4RN4) is the second most difficult,
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16:23:30 <b_jonas> and even before then the levels get more and more difficult than they were
16:23:37 <int-e> with some outliers. that triple jump on sinking platforms in the circus levels was really tough.
16:23:55 <int-e> compared to the other stuff in those levels. at least for me :)
16:25:11 <fizzie> Collected all those wiki link graph statistics at http://zem.fi/2014-04-20-wikigraph plus added a quick and dirty shortest-path finder.
16:25:58 <b_jonas> int-e: it's nice that there are such hidden passages that I didn't notice when first beating the game
16:26:05 <b_jonas> but found out about them from reading a faq later
16:26:53 <int-e> (the triple jump is in the TRDR level)
16:27:18 <b_jonas> I don't remember all the levels by heart, sorry
16:27:30 <b_jonas> some of it comes back when I play, but it's just too much to keep in my head
16:28:35 <int-e> That's why I mentioned the code. So that, if you feel like it, you can check which level I meant.
16:33:11 <b_jonas> I might do that. I do have a working copy of vikings in dosbox set up afterall. (It doesn't run it bochs, it's too new a game for that.)
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16:39:33 <fizzie> The shortest path search is p. boring because most paths are so short. :/
16:40:06 <quintopia> longest path search is NP-complete though. much more interesting.
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17:43:32 <fizzie> Bah, should've scrubbed (considered as aliases) those redirect pages, perhaps. The path from "Befunge" to "BrainFuck" is Befunge -> Brainfuck -> BrainDuino -> BrainFuck.
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18:01:16 <b_jonas> ah, you're playing that wiki maze game?
18:06:12 <fizzie> Not really, I'm just fiddling with some esolangs.org link statistics.
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18:45:12 <kmc> i love C++ because it's a hot mess
18:48:04 <kmc> fizzie: did you do any pagerank-type analysis
18:48:16 <kmc> is the markov chain stationary distribution the same thing?
18:48:23 <fizzie> kmc: It's p. close, like the text says.
18:48:30 <kmc> oh, i missed that
18:49:34 <kmc> also, I really like d3.js's force-directed graph visualization http://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/4062045 https://github.com/mbostock/d3/wiki/Force-Layout
18:49:41 <fizzie> PageRank adds the damping factor thing, which you can interpret as a (page-independent) probability for stopping the random browsing, and the relevance then is the probability for stopping at a particular page.
18:50:02 <fizzie> I did a couple force-directed layouts with Gephi on the graph, but they weren't especially interesting.
18:50:10 <fizzie> If d3.js can do it, maybe I should add that too.
18:50:15 <kmc> how did i not know about gephi
18:50:46 <kmc> "Ergonomic interface: based on NetBeans UI" c.c
18:51:50 <fizzie> Also "Linux: 1. Update your distribution with the last official JRE packages (update 25+), don’t use OpenJDK."
18:52:00 <fizzie> I just used OpenJDK; such a rebel.
18:52:27 <fizzie> I've used d3.js for some of the irc log graph stuff, it's neato. (No GraphViz pun intended.)
18:53:35 <fizzie> The Les Misérables graph is like the Utah teapot or the Stanford bunny, I see.
18:55:04 <kmc> oh, i didn't know that
18:55:28 <fizzie> At least it's used in all the Gephi tutorials too.
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19:19:40 <fizzie> kmc: Well, I, uh... http://zem.fi/attach/2014-04-20-wikigraph/graph.html
19:20:15 <fizzie> There's supposed to be a thing that keeps it centered in the visible region, but it sure isn't working very well for me.
19:23:13 <Bike> AAAAAH IT'S COMING RIGHT AT ME
19:24:26 <augur> http://everything2.com/title/Quantum+Fingers
19:25:22 <fizzie> It looks reasonably similar to my Gephi layouts, except those had some empty space around very central nodes automatically.
19:29:45 <fizzie> It is kind of scary if you manage to find a central node like Category:Implemented (they have tooltips that pop up; also I made the window bigger and increased gravity a bit) and then try dragging it.
19:30:16 <fizzie> Like a pulsating medusa kind of thing.
19:37:34 <fizzie> Added colors according to namespace, maybe it looks more friendly now.
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19:58:09 <fizzie> Also added the fanciest (and slowest) on-hover highlighting this side of [geographical feature].
19:59:09 <fizzie> I'd add text labels that are dynamically toggled visible/hidden on the same hover action except my poor processor would implode.
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20:15:10 <kmc> oh that's pretty neat
20:16:06 <kmc> one time i made a d3.js graph and then turned it into a "find the planar embedding" game
20:18:05 <kmc> I wrote some JS code to detect edges that cross and add a CSS class to them
20:18:29 <kmc> and by "wrote" I mean copied C code from Stack Overflow and turned it into JS
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20:21:54 <ion> kmc: Isn’t that how all programming is done?
20:22:02 <kmc> stack overflow oriented programming
20:22:15 <Taneb> Oh yeah, I never wrote up my esolang
20:22:44 <kmc> <Phantom_Hoover> why would you read lesswrong! <--- where else am i going to read about acausal sex??
20:23:42 <Taneb> Maybe I could call it... CONCURRENTREE
20:24:28 <boily> Taneb: Tanelle. designing a new esolang?
20:24:36 <Taneb> boily, it's more or less defined
20:24:43 <Taneb> I need to touch it up a bit
20:24:50 <Taneb> And it's annoyingly not turing-complete
20:24:55 <Taneb> I think it's linear-bounded
20:25:02 <kmc> boily: http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Acausal_trade
20:26:21 <kmc> jesus loves you acausally
20:26:47 <kmc> (that was the conclusion of one of the comments on http://lesswrong.com/lw/acy/acausal_romance/ )
20:27:43 <boily> I think I'll stick to straightforward, illogical sex, thank you very much.
20:28:41 <Taneb> boily, illogical sex is the only sex I'll ever see
20:29:46 <Taneb> I'd like to take back that message, it was funnier in my head
20:31:00 * boily gently mapoles back illogical sex into Taneb's head
20:38:26 <Taneb> I also want to prepare a half-hour intro to category theory talk at some point
20:43:03 <kmc> fizzie: why does google say "This site may be hacked" in re gephi.org?
20:45:00 <fizzie> kmc: There was a tweet about that.
20:45:16 <fizzie> kmc: https://twitter.com/Gephi/status/449088492266852352 "@mattwigway we've been hacked with some spammy links added in the code of the webpages. We'll fix it soon :)"
20:45:29 <fizzie> kmc: A rather relaxed approach to security, there.
20:46:26 <Sgeo> Starting to think there's one advantage to closed-source software: If you need to distribute a fix, you can do so without as much worrying about what happens to the people who apply the fix slighly later
20:46:26 <fizzie> The site runs on Wordpress, so...
20:46:52 <Bike> Sgeo: on the other hand, you think this is okay http://www.synacktiv.com/ressources/TCP32764_backdoor_again.pdf
20:46:53 <ais523> Sgeo: releasing the fix means it'll probably be reverse-engineered
20:47:13 <ais523> the sort of people who could exploit such a flaw if they knew what it was, could also determine what it was from observing a fix
20:47:46 <Sgeo> True... but what if you regularly release fixes for both security and non-security issues without saying which was more important?
20:48:04 <Sgeo> Which is horrible in other ways, but
20:49:05 <kmc> fizzie: ;_;
20:50:35 <fizzie> Release a patch every hour.
20:50:41 <fizzie> Automatically generated if you have nothing to fix.
20:51:49 <Bike> pro strat, i like it
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21:13:12 <kmc> i didn't read this yet but http://chriskohlhepp.wordpress.com/convergence-of-modern-cplusplus-and-lisp/
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21:19:53 <tswett> So, there are two programs, P and Q. P outputs an infinite list of programs: p_1, p_2, p_3, .... Q also outputs an infinite list of programs.
21:20:04 <tswett> For every program that P outputs, Q outputs a program that behaves the same way, and vice versa.
21:20:24 <kallisti> from http://conwaylife.com/wiki/Crab:
21:20:26 <tswett> Must there exist a program that, given a number n, finds a number m such that Q_m behaves the same way as P_n?
21:20:30 <kallisti> Due to the diagonal glide symmetry and by simple inspection, the spaceship can easily be made to stretch two tub wicks simultaneously. Both cases are instances of a domino dragging a tub or chain of tubs. Be it noted that tub chains are also called barges, and that additional non-stretching variants are possible given synchronized eating at the far ends.
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21:20:50 <kallisti> I never realized CA theory could sound so dirty.
21:21:55 <Bike> isn't 'wick' a cricket thing
21:23:01 <fizzie> Bike: A wicket is, but I don't think a wick is, though it sounds like a logical contraction, so maybe it is.
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21:23:28 <fizzie> (All I know about cricket I learned from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.)
21:23:45 * kallisti is making a distributed Game of Life implementation.
21:24:16 <kallisti> Phantom_Hoover: it's for a class project. I won't be able to do hashlife until after the due date for said project
21:24:21 <kallisti> but yes I plan to implement it, using a distributed quadtree
21:25:15 <b_jonas> fizzie: no, a wick is the part of the candle that's not made of wax, I think
21:26:10 <fizzie> Also "any piece of cord that conveys liquid by capillary action", to quote WordNet.
21:26:15 <fizzie> Oil lamps have wicks too.
21:26:17 <kallisti> technically the class project is just "make a simple distributed system" but I decided to make it interesting for myself.
21:26:27 <b_jonas> isn't that the sense it's used here?
21:26:40 <b_jonas> I mean, it's where you light the candle
21:26:54 <b_jonas> (technically not really, because you have to melt the wax too)
21:27:11 <olsner> I think the wax melts and then gets conveyed by capillary action
21:27:18 <fizzie> Probably. I didn't look beyond the cricket comment.
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21:30:09 <kallisti> also for the moment I'm only support life 1.05 file format for inputs due to time constraints, but later on I'll implement others.
21:30:32 <fizzie> OED lists 12 separate senses for wick, including things like "a corner of the mouth or eye" ("now only dial.") and "a creek, inlet, or small bay" ("sc. and dial.").
21:31:59 <fizzie> "Ȝiff þatt iss þatt ȝho iss all. Wittlaes. & wac. & wicke."
21:32:31 <tswett> Anyone know off the top of their head whether or not Life has orthogonal spaceships of all rational speeds less than or equal to c/2?
21:32:32 <fizzie> (/Ormulum/ (Burchfield transcript), c1200, for the sense "wicked".)
21:32:35 <b_jonas> you're playing game of life? I like that, I even have some crazy obfuscated code implementing it
21:33:55 <b_jonas> tswett: I don't think that's known
21:34:06 <b_jonas> look at http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/Speed maybe
21:34:24 <kallisti> I have no clue what size of pattern would even require distribution. Even the larger patterns run very efficiently with haslife.
21:35:06 <kallisti> but the problem suits itself well to distribution... so why not. :P
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22:11:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/url
22:12:10 <lambdabot> fizzie said 14h 6m 3s ago: If we're going to be that fancy, I fixed `url to use os.path.abspath so that e.g. `url /bin/../hackenv/test works.
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22:14:40 <HackEgo> 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
22:14:46 <HackEgo> . \ .. \ 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ .hg \ .hg_archival.txt \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
22:14:56 <HackEgo> 00changelog.i \ branch \ branchheads.cache \ cache \ dirstate \ last-message.txt \ requires \ store \ tags.cache \ undo.bookmarks \ undo.branch \ undo.desc \ undo.dirstate
22:15:11 <oerjan> `url .hg/00changelog.i
22:15:11 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/.hg/00changelog.i
22:15:49 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/.hg_archival.txt
22:16:34 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.23924
22:17:06 <oerjan> fizzie: i just realized there was an exception :P
22:20:28 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/.hg
22:20:31 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/.hg
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22:27:19 <oerjan> `run sed -i '8c if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|$)",f):' bin/url
22:27:45 <oerjan> oops stupid sed strips initial space
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22:29:06 <Sgeo> I am completely addicted to these
22:29:06 <Sgeo> http://www.amazon.com/Listerine-PocketPaks-Breath-Strips-Fresh/dp/B0054J2J5Q/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
22:29:13 <oerjan> `run sed -i '8s!.*! if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|$)",f):!' bin/url
22:29:19 <Sgeo> If I have them in my apartment, I am incapable of consuming less than one pack a day
22:29:44 <oerjan> `run sed -i '8s!.*! if re.match(r"/|\\.hg(?:/|$)",f):!' bin/url
22:30:02 <HackEgo> File is outside hg repository.
22:30:08 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/url
22:30:17 <HackEgo> File is outside hg repository.
22:32:46 <oerjan> hm this makes the error message somewhat dubious :P
22:33:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Staq]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39381&oldid=35652 * 70.208.158.105 * (-53) the stacks are double-ended
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22:36:03 <coppro> I need to write a Tarpit interpreter
22:36:07 <fizzie> oerjan: Right, /hackenv/.hg is special.
22:40:25 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/hg repository/web-viewable filesystem repository/' bin/url
22:40:34 <HackEgo> File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.
22:48:56 <oerjan> Taneb: are you still all up in arms?
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22:51:43 <myname> i like that {} feature of staq
22:52:18 <myname> would be more awesome with 2 dimensions
23:03:43 <Sgeo> type Pointful = () + ((), ())
23:04:04 <Sgeo> They did what looks like a fancy trick, apparently only to be able to write that. afaict
23:05:04 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/23jms9/more_points_for_your_very_numbers/
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23:12:50 <Sgeo> Possibly anything that would by default be displayed in scientific notation?
23:13:41 <Bike> such as 6.981×10⁻¹³
23:13:51 <Sgeo> Maybe not, showFFloat forces standard decimal notation
23:14:28 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/url
23:27:08 <kallisti> presumably anything over 7 digits is a "big number"
23:28:54 <kallisti> I'm not familiar with the + in the Pointful type defintion. Is that a new thing?
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23:33:16 <kallisti> whoever wrote this doesn't seem to understand what UndecidableInstances is for
23:33:56 <kallisti> they probably wrote this line: instance Num (Chuwabra a b) => Fractional (Chuwabra a b) where
23:34:04 <kallisti> and then GHC complained and said you need UndecidableInstances
23:35:31 <kallisti> Sure, it's a joke library, but that's no excuse for poorly written code!
23:35:53 <Sgeo> What would you do to make it work?
23:36:36 <kallisti> instance Fractional (Chuwabra a b) where -- should work no?
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