00:00:13 <fizzie> Googling for ircII help files suggest it does windows.
00:00:32 <fizzie> I wonder if my .ircrc is still somewhere.
00:01:06 <oerjan> `run cd quines; ls # you can do this, but it won't remember where it was until the next command line
00:01:06 <HackEgo> cat \ perl \ python \ q \ ruby
00:01:57 <fizzie> In other news, having all those (except q) be the trivial empty-program quine makes for a p. poor showing.
00:02:03 <fizzie> Unless it's that way "ironically".
00:03:31 * oerjan finds .ircrc from 2006 and .ircrc.old from 1998
00:05:06 <HackEgo> âELF............>.....°@.....@.......Ð..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....À.......À............................@......@............................................@.......@.....¬......¬........ ............°......°`.....°`.................... ...........Ø......Ø`.....Ø`..... ....... ................
00:05:34 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/quine.sss
00:05:39 <HackEgo> 2014-08-24 23:03:22 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/quine.sss [1497/1497] -> "quine.sss" [1]
00:06:04 <oerjan> `run mv quine.sss quine/slashes
00:06:05 <HackEgo> mv: cannot move `quine.sss' to `quine/slashes': No such file or directory
00:06:14 <oerjan> `run mv quine.sss quines/slashes
00:06:26 <oerjan> there, now there's at least one interesting one *cough*
00:08:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:08:47 <Hjulle> This is definitely a channel i will stay in. Although it will probably reduce my productivity. ;)
00:09:10 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/ircslashes.pl
00:09:18 <HackEgo> 2014-08-24 23:07:01 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/ircslashes.pl [566/566] -> "ircslashes.pl" [1]
00:09:49 <oerjan> `run chmod +x ircslashes.pl; mv ircslashes.pl bin/slashes
00:10:00 <oerjan> `slashes quines/slashes
00:10:01 <HackEgo> /\/\/\/\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//\/\/\/\\\/\/\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\//
00:10:50 <oerjan> note that is not the whole program, which won't fit on an irc line.
00:11:40 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
00:11:43 -!- boily has joined.
00:12:30 <oerjan> that's not proper protocol
00:13:01 <HackEgo> PID TTY TIME CMD \ 286 ? 00:00:00 init \ 288 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 290 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 291 ? 00:00:00 cat
00:13:31 <boily> hellørjan? why isn't it propotocol?
00:13:54 * boily has a sudden enlightenment moment.
00:14:08 <boily> minus boily. indeed, it ain't protocorollary.
00:15:37 <zzo38> Hjulle: Well, there can be good thing to read in this channel much, especially if you like esoteric programming and related things such as mathematics and other computer programming, but also many other things too. So, good you can stay. OK
00:16:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
00:16:29 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: please leave, nature abhors a vacuum
00:17:09 <oerjan> wait, you haven't been here longer than that?
00:17:13 <zzo38> No, don't please leave if you do not like to leave. But if you do like to leave, then, yes please leave right away
00:17:16 <Hjulle> zzo38: It seems like a lot of fun and not that much of the boring productive stuff that infests the other channels.
00:17:45 <oerjan> we're definitely good at avoiding boring productive stuff
00:17:46 <zzo38> Hjulle: Yes, it can certainly be.
00:18:12 <boily> Hjulle: have you read the PDF in the /topic? ↑
00:18:52 <oerjan> or the wiki, of course
00:18:55 <zzo38> Or the esolang wiki?
00:19:07 <oerjan> (don't worry, i haven't read any of them all through either.)
00:19:27 <oerjan> although i was around for when a great part of it was made, i guess.
00:19:34 <Hjulle> I've spent a lot of time reading the esolang wiki
00:20:31 <boily> also, any idea involving esolangs and vegetables are mine. quintopia can vouch.
00:21:43 <oerjan> boily: what a bunch of horseradish
00:21:44 <Hjulle> I've submitted competative bf solutions to code golfing challanges at codegolf.stackexchange.com too.
00:22:50 <zzo38> Have you seen the anarchy golf though? It is the code golf made by Japanese people.
00:23:03 <Hjulle> I was surprised that it actually was of similar length to other contributions.
00:23:41 <elliott> oerjan: I've been here like 7-8 years. that's so weird.
00:23:42 <boily> how does one anarchycally golf?
00:24:13 <elliott> oerjan: soon I'll be 20 and old.
00:24:32 <boily> elliott: you're not 20????????6?????pointd'interrogation6???
00:24:44 <Hjulle> (Except for it being too mainstream) ;)
00:24:46 <boily> fungot: why does bf suck?
00:24:48 <oerjan> myname: you are confusing bf with its derivatives hth
00:24:52 <elliott> how old did you think I was?
00:25:05 <boily> elliott: late twenties?
00:25:10 <myname> oerjan: that whole stuff alltogether
00:25:21 <elliott> people thought I was early-mid twenties when I was 10-11. I don't get it.
00:25:24 <myname> aldo, i don't think bf deserves its name
00:25:35 <Bike> should have coated ur messages in snot
00:25:43 <elliott> Bike: I did, more or less.
00:25:58 <Bike> was it less snot because that won't work, ou need more
00:26:15 <Hjulle> Yes, its more tedious than difficult to program in BF.
00:27:01 <boily> you should implement feather.
00:27:07 <elliott> Bike: do I look like some kind of fountain of snot to you?
00:27:21 <Hjulle> Where else would you hear that a language sucks because it's too easy to program in? =D
00:27:22 <Bike> well, you did when you were eleven, probably
00:27:23 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott.
00:27:26 <Bike> seeing you through my timeoscope
00:27:29 <elliott> boily: how old are you, anyway?
00:27:31 <oerjan> elliott: and people keep guessing i'm something like ten years younger than i am, and have for a while.
00:27:57 <oerjan> although that's based on visual appearance, i think
00:28:01 <elliott> oerjan: I guess I am approaching the age where being mistaken for younger will be a compliment.
00:28:12 <boily> Bike: I have completed two elevenses already!
00:28:27 <elliott> oerjan is 48, 49, 50, I think?
00:28:42 <elliott> please don't let me be wrong. I can't take the swatting.
00:28:54 <elliott> no, wait, you're early 40s. ...are you? aaaaa
00:29:34 <pikhq> Don't worry, all that happens when you hit 20 is you start IRCing less.
00:30:02 <zzo38> How closely can you guess someone's age if you know the aspects between planets (not counting sun and moon, which aren't planets anyways) at the time of that person's birth?
00:30:25 <zzo38> (With exact coordinates you can do a search, but here there are no exact coordinates.)
00:30:48 <Bike> within eleven years
00:31:08 <pikhq> elliott: No reason.
00:31:21 <zzo38> Also, what is it called if a poker game has spread limit before the flip and pot limit after the flop?
00:31:33 <elliott> pikhq: I expect my life to contain ample time for IRC for at least the next few years.
00:31:50 <zzo38> Do you ever print out the IRC?
00:32:16 <Bike> elliott's gonna be sad when MI6 come along and force a move to Somaliland
00:32:20 <oerjan> zzo38: it's not exactly the same, but i recall the people following xkcd's "time" story calculated the date > 10000 years in the future when it likely happened based on the positions in the sky shown in the night scene
00:33:03 <elliott> pikhq: what could possibly be a more important use of time, after all?
00:33:31 <oerjan> of course that was with the assumption that randall munroe had made it accurate. he certainly had _tried_ to.
00:33:34 * pikhq looks at girlfriend
00:33:43 <zzo38> oerjan: Ah, OK that is of some interest at least.
00:34:24 <boily> I got my girlfriend through the previous job's intranet IRC channel, so I don't see how the two can conflict...
00:34:28 <elliott> pikhq: only an amateur lets that interfere with IRC time.
00:34:39 <Bike> an amateur girlfriendhaver
00:34:42 <elliott> don't you have priorities?
00:36:04 <oerjan> Bike: you know somaliland has _excellent_ mobile service, right?
00:36:15 <oerjan> (at least that's what i read.)
00:36:19 <Bike> who uses irc on mobile
00:36:25 <Bike> what do you take elliott for
00:36:32 <oerjan> elliott has done so before
00:36:56 <elliott> I've managed to be the top talker in here with only 4 hours on an iPhone a day before.
00:37:13 <elliott> I doubt I'm near the top these days.
00:37:57 <oerjan> `addquote <boily> I got my girlfriend through the previous job's intranet IRC channel, so I don't see how the two can conflict...
00:37:58 <HackEgo> 1215) <boily> I got my girlfriend through the previous job's intranet IRC channel, so I don't see how the two can conflict...
00:38:11 <boily> and there we go...
00:38:21 <oerjan> it's been too long since you had an update
00:38:45 <elliott> pikhq: you could hire me to IRC for you when you're too busy with less important things.
00:39:03 <boily> oerjan: had I missed some lately?
00:39:10 <pikhq> There's also the "people pay me to go to an office 8 hours a day" thing.
00:39:31 <boily> (meanwhile, dropbox is synching.)
00:40:20 <elliott> pikhq: and that's higher-priority than IRC to you?? you can IRC from an office!
00:40:44 <pikhq> I need money to live! ... and pay for video games
00:40:47 <pikhq> oh so many video games
00:41:47 <oerjan> boily: i think it was your job to know that stuff. the repository is thataway.
00:42:18 <boily> I surrepticiously looked at the repo. it wasn't addquoted in a long time.
00:42:45 <oerjan> y'all aren't being funny enough
00:43:13 <int-e> you don't pay us enough
00:44:06 <boily> I can't be funny. nor any emotion right now. I'm home from the otakuthon, where I was one of the event hosts.
00:44:22 <oerjan> @tell mroman <mroman> This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your action was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: an edit to a user page makes it start with an h2 tag <-- that was a heuristic that caught a lot of spambots but very few others
00:44:32 <boily> I'm completely drained, only a hollow shell of my past self.
00:44:55 <boily> (speaking of hollow shells, my estomac is empty. time to food...)
00:45:08 <oerjan> boily: a ghost in the shell, check
00:45:34 * oerjan should admit to only knowing the name of that
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00:46:20 <oerjan> i'd food if i could get through the logs
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00:46:48 <boily> J_Arcane: why? it's the most bestest browser!
00:46:53 <elliott_> seeing yourself quit is uncanny.
00:47:30 <J_Arcane> boily: 45 threads and .75GB on idle isn't really "best" in my book. :P
00:47:48 <J_Arcane> But as Chrome/Chromium seems to get more evil with every update ...
00:47:54 <quintopia> zzo38: oh i was referring to your poker variant. i think i would like it better without drawing and with more community cards though.
00:47:58 <myname> firefox is the only one of the main browsers with a decent vim-like interface
00:48:14 <zzo38> quintopia: O, well, soon after I wrote it I thought, there is too much drawing, too.
00:48:36 * boily needs his daily pentadactyl fix.
00:49:05 <quintopia> i need to think of a name for a blog
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00:49:09 <zzo38> So instead when there are two exposed cards you cannot draw anything, and when you have three exposed cards you are not allowed to exchange more than one card.
00:49:31 <zzo38> quintopia: Perhaps, "quintopia blog" can be?
00:49:55 <J_Arcane> myname: I tried firemacs, but I just kept fighting muscle memory. I was gonna install conkeror, but 1) it hasn't been updated in a year, and 2) it won't build on FreeBSD.
00:49:55 <zzo38> Unless it is actually about something, in which case, don't call it that.
00:50:20 <quintopia> zzo38: it will be about math and computer science and education and who knows what all. not a personal blog.
00:50:43 <zzo38> Then call it "math and computer science and education and who knows what all blog".
00:50:51 <mauris_> "probably magic" is a good blog title
00:50:52 <zzo38> Then call it "math and computer science and education and who knows what all blog and probably magic too".
00:50:59 <quintopia> it's going to be hard to fit all that in a subdomain name though
00:51:04 <boily> “Magic More Magic”
00:51:17 <zzo38> Then abbreviate it to make up the domain name.
00:52:18 <myname> "upside down double-u upside down double-u upside down double-u dot quintopia dot com"
00:52:40 <quintopia> zzo38: how about you can only draw on the first round, immediately after exposing a card, and you can draw up to four. after that, you're stuck with what you have. this incentivizes exposing your best card on the first round.
00:52:56 <zzo38> quintopia: Ah, yes that can be good.
00:56:50 <zzo38> And, perhaps adding a second community card (not dealt at the same time) can also help, then you have seven cards with which to make up your hand.
00:58:00 <J_Arcane> Oh FFS. Twitter filters your own bloody timeline unless you turn off personalization, which you can't do if you've set Do Not Track ...
00:58:18 <oerjan> quintopia: just call it mathemagical themas HTH
00:58:30 <zzo38> oerjan: But I think there is already a book called that isn't it?
00:58:41 <oerjan> trust zzo38 to ruin the joke
00:58:51 <int-e> J_Arcane: here's the right question: "How can you personalize my timeline if you're not tracking me?"
00:59:01 <zzo38> J_Arcane: Can you tamper with the cookies and headers to fix it somehow?
01:00:37 <oerjan> cookie tampering is a capital offense in china hth
01:00:55 <oerjan> it's all the food scandals, you see
01:01:10 <int-e> oh I thought you meant personalized fortunes
01:01:29 <int-e> rather than, you know, random ones
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01:02:56 <J_Arcane> zzo38: No idea. I'm just trying to find a stupid code snippet I don't think I saved anywhere else because I didn't think I'd need it. I posted it on FB too, but of course that means scrolling my entire history ...
01:04:25 <myname> why the hell do you post stupid useless code on facebook?
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01:07:36 <int-e> why the hell do you post on facebook?
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01:08:29 <J_Arcane> myname: it was when I was learning Racket. I'd figured out how to write my own for loop. Never saved it anywhere else because why the hell do I need to know that, you know?
01:08:46 <J_Arcane> int-e: familial and friend inertia ...
01:10:24 <int-e> rhetorical question.
01:16:01 <quintopia> zzo38: it's called metamagical themas hth
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01:16:29 <quintopia> zzo38: i like the idea of an extra community card though
01:17:08 <oerjan> mathemagic was something else
01:21:37 <quintopia> then by the last round you have two community cards and three exposed cards and two hidden cards, which is the same number of exposed/hidden cards each player has in texas hold-em
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03:06:16 <zzo38> Do you know that in Z-machine, if you want to write a number outside of the range 0 to 255 into a variable, use of the BCOM (bitwise complement) instruction will be shorter than using the SET instruction meant for this case? This is only in ZIP and EZIP. In XZIP, it is only true if the number to write is in range -256 to -1.
03:08:21 <zzo38> Furthermore in XZIP, you can make it four bytes if the number is in range 256 to 510, or if it is a positive composite number that can be written as a product of two numbers in range 2 to 255.
03:09:06 <zzo38> (In all other cases it will be five bytes long.)
03:16:14 <Sgeo> ( (`the` Int) 5
03:16:17 <zzo38> This means a compiler that targets XZIP will need to include the function to factor numbers.
03:16:33 <zzo38> (If it is going to optimize.)
03:20:14 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘the’Not in scope: data constructor ‘Int’
03:20:15 <lambdabot> ‘In’ (imported from Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Trusted),
03:20:15 <lambdabot> ‘InR’ (imported from Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Trusted)
03:20:42 <shachaf> Can you even pass the argument that way?
03:48:37 <int-e> eww, when did the DOM inspector lose its menu bar
03:50:57 <int-e> and how do I inspect an xul window now. grrrrr
03:52:13 <int-e> Sorry, I'm being stupid. There's now an "Inspector" and a "DOM inspector". I mistook the former for the latter.
03:53:10 <oerjan> just be wary if any of them start speaking in a fake french accent.
04:08:32 <Sgeo> ( the ((a : Type) -> a -> a) the
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05:59:24 <Sgeo> Does anyone know what's actually going on with TrueCrypt? It's been a while, maybe something new happened
06:03:24 <Jafet> I made three backup copies of 7.1a.
06:11:02 <Sgeo> Is TrueCrypt (7.1a) likely sufficient to protect my data if I send in my laptop for repairs?
06:12:25 <zzo38> To be more careful, remove the harddrive if possible.
06:12:59 <shachaf> I sent in my laptop for repairs and after repairs Dell sent it back to someone in Tennessee.
06:13:05 <shachaf> Fortunately I had removed the hard drive.
06:17:26 <Sgeo> I think if I was capable of removing hard drive I would be capable of fixing issue myself...maybe?
06:17:32 <zzo38> If you want to be even more careful, run memtest86 after removing the hard drive, if it is still capable of running memtest86! (This should eliminate the possibility that someone can somehow recover it from the RAM.)
06:17:43 <Sgeo> (I think loose connection to monitor)
06:18:45 <Sgeo> (On many angles, some grey images become kind of blue)
06:20:23 <zzo38> Is it possible in C for a variable marked as "register" to use address of operator?
06:23:49 <fizzie> "The operand of the unary & operator shall be either [...], or an lvalue that designates an object that is not a bit-field and is not declared with the register storage-class specifier."
06:24:56 <coppro> register is a stupid storage class
06:25:33 <coppro> Sgeo: *definitely* do not send your hard drive away for repair
06:25:56 <coppro> Sgeo: If you absolutely cannot avoid it, make sure you have a backup and then thrash the disk if you don't want people accessing its contents
06:27:47 <fizzie> typedef is the stupidest storage class, because it's only a storage class for syntactic convenience.
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06:44:03 <elliott_> 06:16:44 <Sgeo> (On many angles, some grey images become kind of blue)
06:44:06 <elliott_> sounds more like you bought a TN panel
06:44:30 <elliott_> coppro: sending an encrypted drive is just fine, if you have a backup
06:47:16 <coppro> elliott_: yes, but not if you're trying to encrypt to hide data
06:47:27 <coppro> if it's been encrypted since the start, sure
06:47:46 <elliott_> coppro: any encryption software worth its salt is not going to leave a trace of the original data.
06:49:35 <coppro> *elliott_: Not on the first read. But it seems pointless to thrash a disk before encrypting as a routine measure, since usually you format a new filesystem as encrypted rather than encrypting an exisiting one.
06:50:08 <elliott_> anyone who releases encryption software that encrypts an existing drive while making it feasible to access the original data is a charlatan
06:50:24 <elliott_> I don't think the truecrypt developers are /that/ incompetent, but I don't know; I don't use it.
06:50:42 <coppro> but a) that's not the normal usecase and b) encryption has many uses other than to hide data
06:51:02 <elliott_> (a) sure it is. common advice is "hey, get truecrypt and encrypt your drives! encryption is good!"
06:51:22 <elliott_> (b) TrueCrypt cares a hell of a lot about hiding data. see the hidden volume stuff etc.
06:51:36 <coppro> yes but your discussion of encryption software was general
06:52:51 <zzo38> What kinds of compiler optimizations are most common and which are most useful?
06:54:50 <Sgeo> elliott_: I don't mean angle I view it, I mean angle of the monitor to the base
06:55:05 <zzo38> One thing I want to make it to do is to try to group instructions together in order to allow further optimizations to be performed.
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08:04:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ROT13 encoder/decoder]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40338&oldid=8014 * Rdebath * (+26) Zombie link
08:13:30 <olsner> Sgeo: I had a laptop with a similar problem, whacking the display on the side would fix it for a while
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09:46:47 <fizzie> I told OpenBLAS to DYNAMIC_ARCH=1 expecting it to, I don't know, maybe build both SSE and non-SSE versions, but instead it compiled separate copies for every particular microarchitecture it knows of.
09:46:53 <fizzie> Now I have a 26-meg BLAS library.
09:48:54 <Deewiant> If you're building it for x86-64 you've already got SSE and SSE2 guaranteed
09:55:09 <Jafet> CFLAGS="-march=native"
09:55:17 <fizzie> And it's not going to be used on this computer.
09:55:52 <Jafet> Live on the edge, the bleeding edge
09:56:00 <Jafet> Doesn't gmplib do something similar
09:58:49 <fizzie> Perhaps, but this knows of P2 KATMAI COPPERMINE NORTHWOOD PRESCOTT BANIAS YONAH CORE2 PENRYN DUNNINGTON NEHALEM SANDYBRIDGE ATOM ATHLON OPTERON OPTERON_SSE3 BARCELONA SHANGHAI ISTANBUL BOBCAT BULLDOZER SSE_GENERIC VIAC3 NANO when building for x86.
10:00:59 <fizzie> Yes. But I think it was building them all even when building for x86-32.
10:01:16 <fizzie> It's not like they wouldn't run 32-bit binaries, after all.
10:01:36 <Deewiant> I wonder if all the latest instruction set extensions also work in 32-bit mode, I guess they do
10:01:49 <Jafet> Who wouldn't want blazing fast linear algebra on via chips
10:02:51 <fizzie> At any rate, I did TARGET=P2 (hopefully quite generic) without DYNAMIC_ARCH=1 now, to save time when testing this build system stuff, and it failed with bazillion "undefined reference" errors for symbols matching _[sc]gemm_i[tn]copy.
10:03:16 <Jafet> I suspect that target is not tested very often
10:03:49 <Deewiant> SSE_GENERIC not lowest-common-denominator enough?
10:04:03 <fizzie> It's listed under the "VIA chips" group, but perhaps it could be.
10:04:07 <Jafet> Those µarch names don't match gcc's, so they must be from some internal database.
10:04:35 <fizzie> I don't know what's the best accepted practice for building this library when the use case is "we'll be giving a binary containing it to some random people to test on their random home computers".
10:05:06 <Deewiant> TARGET=SANDYBRIDGE and give them a nickel if they can't run it on their current home computers
10:05:08 <Jafet> "Tell them it'll only work on Windows Vista or later"
10:08:12 <fizzie> Heh. I tried to do the same thing with TARGET=SSE_GENERIC and now it crapped out with "/usr/bin/i686-w64-mingw32-ar: sgemm_kernel.obj: No such file or directory".
10:08:37 <Deewiant> Ah right, you're cross-compiling too
10:08:43 <Deewiant> Was the 26-meg one so bad? :-P
10:09:29 <fizzie> Maybe it's not too bad, it's just that I'm trying to get this whole thing under a single CMake build (in retrospect, maybe I should just do it more or less manually) and building all those architectures takes so long when testing.
10:10:04 <fizzie> Possibly using a release that's only 7 days old straight from the GitHub is not the wisest idea either.
10:10:15 <fizzie> But, I mean, they've tagged it, so presumably they've tested it too.
10:11:44 <fizzie> Building a TARGET=CORE2 (that doesn't sound too fancy, ISA-wise) worked out right.
10:14:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Dc]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40339&oldid=40280 * Rdebath * (+1334) Add BSD extras and better sectioning.
10:16:17 <Deewiant> Core 2 is the latest before the i[357]s started appearing, latest ones came out in 2008 and earliest in 2006
10:16:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Dc]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40340&oldid=40339 * Rdebath * (+13) Use code font
10:20:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Dc]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40341&oldid=40340 * Rdebath * (+131) Hmm, how did I do that; and add the rest
10:21:01 <fizzie> And of course this CMake's built-in FindBLAS module doesn't support looking for OpenBLAS directly, so I need to convince it.
10:27:39 <fizzie> FindBLAS convinced, FindLAPACK not. (Even though the "cheev_" symbol is in there.)
10:31:06 <fizzie> "undefined reference to `__gfortran_compare_string'" but of course.
10:41:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Dc]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40342&oldid=40341 * Rdebath * (+278) Expand number description
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10:45:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Dc]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40343&oldid=40342 * Rdebath * (-49) Move it
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10:54:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Dc]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40344&oldid=40343 * Rdebath * (+242) Hints
11:29:49 <fizzie> "lattice_rescore.cc:112:46: error: too many arguments to function ‘int mkdir(const char*)’"
11:30:04 <fizzie> Nice little details; the Windows variant doesn't take a mode argument, of course.
11:31:10 <Deewiant> I thought OpenBLAS was Windows-capable? Or is this something else now.
11:31:30 <fizzie> This is something else.
11:31:56 <fizzie> I (think I) managed to convince everything to use OpenBLAS, so it's now trying to build our own code.
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11:43:23 <fizzie> Wowza, I think that's the most undefined references I've ever seen.
11:44:30 <fizzie> 642 of them, plus ten "more undefined references follow" cop-outs.
11:46:11 <fizzie> Seemed longer, but that's probably because some of them are the typical C++ template error message style.
11:58:04 <fizzie> "--enable-static=yes --enable-shared=no CXXFLAGS=-fPIC" isn't that kind of a strange combination?
11:58:12 <fizzie> I wonder who wrote that.
12:01:24 <fizzie> Based on commit logs, it seems to be related to the SWIG-built interface to the code; building the external library for static linking, but with -fPIC so that the entire final combination can be made a shared object.
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12:32:36 <fizzie> Down from 640 undefined references, through ~140 or so, to 1.
12:41:41 <fizzie> The one remaining one is quite puzzling, though.
12:44:30 <fizzie> Oh, libvorbis is split into three libraries. Well, that's fine.
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13:33:22 <fizzie> It's not usually counted as. But it's certainly closer than $BORING_LANGUAGE.
13:47:50 <J_Arcane> ... I actually just googled that. With this channel, it's sometimes hard to tell the joke names from real languages. ;)
13:49:32 <Jafet> I don't think mediawiki allows it.
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14:04:16 <Hjulle> What have 'Lymia', 'Lymee' and 'Madoka-Kaname' done?
14:04:22 <Hjulle> https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/src/95f4757ad6412a820efec34566a7e99b70e8d6fe/multibot_cmds/PRIVMSG/tr_60.cmd?at=default
14:05:33 <Jafet> Something demonic, no doubt
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14:08:03 <fizzie> It was just something annoying, if I recall correctly.
14:08:11 <fizzie> Lots of bot-noise, that sort of thing.
14:10:13 <Hjulle> Is it possible to make HackEgo noisier than yourself? It only responds with a single line per query.
14:11:08 <Hjulle> Was it some kind of trigger-bot with bot thingey?
14:14:23 <fungot> Hjulle: it's actually real progress, i'll probably do that for me...
14:15:05 <fizzie> There's an ignore list on fungot. And HackEgo prefixes all non-alphanumeric initial characters with a zero-width space to avoid botloops.
14:15:06 <fungot> fizzie: i am now immune to the sorts of apps that it makes my head spin in a pleasant way... thanks, will do.) it's an oldish o2 box, so it's more accurate and faster :d
14:19:50 <fizzie> I still haven't managed to do the same zero-width space trick on fungot, so you can make small chains via that.
14:19:51 <fungot> fizzie: there's no get function for it to correct me
14:21:28 <fungot> Hjulle: and what are you doing
14:21:39 <fungot> `echo fungot `echo fungot
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14:25:00 <HackEgo> sleep: invalid time interval `20 `sleep 20' \ Try `sleep --help' for more information.
14:25:38 <fungot> `run sleep 20s `run sleep 20s
14:25:38 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
14:26:07 <HackEgo> sleep: invalid time interval `20s `sleep 20s' \ Try `sleep --help' for more information.
14:26:15 <fizzie> You don't have to use the silly echo.
14:26:59 <fizzie> I mean, even if you want to go through the bot.
14:27:01 <fizzie> ^bf ,[.,]!`run sleep 5; echo foo
14:27:01 <fungot> `run sleep 5; echo foo
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14:28:08 <Hjulle> Are there more bots you can chain?
14:28:56 <fizzie> Possibly not at the moment. lambdabot adds a space in front of replies, I think.
14:30:00 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !
14:30:12 <fizzie> That list keeps getting outdated.
14:30:29 <Hjulle> That was more bots than I expected
14:30:41 <Jafet> The >0.1 bot age has passed.
14:30:55 <Jafet> `run for x in `seq 10`; do echo a$x >> x; sleep 1; done
14:31:00 <Jafet> `run for x in `seq 10`; do echo b$x >> x; sleep 1; done
14:31:40 <HackEgo> cat: x; rm x: No such file or directory
14:31:45 <HackEgo> b1 \ b2 \ b3 \ b4 \ b5 \ b6 \ b7 \ b8 \ b9 \ b10 \ a1 \ a2 \ a3 \ a4 \ a5 \ a6 \ a7 \ a8 \ a9 \ a10
14:32:50 <Jafet> Well, it looks atomic.
14:34:14 <Hjulle> How does that work? I still find it strange
14:35:34 <fizzie> Given the version control stuff, the fact that edits are atomic is not too surprising.
14:36:22 <Hjulle> But why would b come before a?
14:37:08 <Hjulle> `run for x in `seq 10`; do echo a$x >> x; sleep 1; done
14:37:13 <Hjulle> `run for x in `seq 10`; do echo b$x >> x; sleep 1; done
14:38:46 <Hjulle> `run for x in `seq 10`; do echo a$x >> x; sleep 1; done
14:38:50 <Hjulle> `run for x in `seq 10`; do echo b$x >> x; sleep 1; done
14:39:29 <HackEgo> b1 \ b2 \ b3 \ b4 \ b5 \ b6 \ b7 \ b8 \ b9 \ b10 \ a1 \ a2 \ a3 \ a4 \ a5 \ a6 \ a7 \ a8 \ a9 \ a10
14:39:47 <fizzie> The multibot machinery is a fork-exec thing, so process scheduling might get slightly random.
14:40:02 <fizzie> The command itself does an exclusive lock on a lockfile, which will serialize them.
14:40:37 <Hjulle> But that shouldn't give consistant reverse ordering?
14:40:51 <mauris> `run for x in `seq 10`; do echo a$x >> x; sleep 1; done; cat x
14:41:13 <HackEgo> a1 \ a2 \ a3 \ a4 \ a5 \ a6 \ a7 \ a8 \ a9 \ a10
14:41:16 <mauris> `run for x in `seq 10`; do echo b$x >> x; sleep 1; done
14:42:12 <HackEgo> a1 \ a2 \ a3 \ a4 \ a5 \ a6 \ a7 \ a8 \ a9 \ a10 \ b1 \ b2 \ b3 \ b4 \ b5 \ b6 \ b7 \ b8 \ b9 \ b10
14:42:14 <fizzie> Two tests is hardly enough to call it. Anyway, there might be some systematic bias involved.
14:43:56 <Hjulle> But that doesn't involve files, so I guess it's not the same
14:44:43 <fizzie> Oh, right; the locking is only for the version control commit.
14:45:21 <fizzie> Or, rather, it's a shared reader-lock during the actual execution, and an exclusive lock if a write was made.
14:47:45 <fizzie> And the command is re-executed after updating the checked-out copy to the latest, which explains why it always has both the a's and the b's.
14:50:42 <Hjulle> That explains it. The first command is waiting for a wright lock while the second one has a read lock. Then it probably prefers not to context swith or something
14:52:17 <Hjulle> It would have to be preempted between unlocking the shared lock and locking the exclusive.
14:53:34 <Jafet> Software transactional linux, I like it
14:53:47 <fizzie> There's not even any unlocking; you can "upgrade" a fcntl lock.
14:54:10 <Hjulle> But that is not done according to the code
14:55:08 <Hjulle> I think it could lead to deadlock if you try to upgrade instead of unlocking first
14:56:09 <fizzie> "Converting a lock (shared to exclusive, or vice versa) is not guaranteed to be atomic: the existing lock is first removed, and then a new lock is established. Between these two steps, a pending lock request by another process may be granted, --"
14:56:14 <fizzie> Shouldn't be any different.
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14:57:19 <fizzie> Time to get going again. ->
15:01:22 <Hjulle> So if I tell HackEgo to launch_the_missiles and save the results to a file, the missiles will be launced twice, and only the output of the second launch will be saved. Is that correct?
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15:42:30 <TieSoul_> I made doot somewhat akin to fungot
15:42:30 <fungot> TieSoul_: fnord you might find this slightly different approach easier. try fnord it has great libraries ( for a wiki, though. see this thread from comp.lang.scheme: 1380 articles fetched ( to fnord reality) with the supplied continuations. table-entry will then probably have ( multi fnord 0)
15:42:48 <TieSoul_> it gets random words from a log :P
15:43:40 <TieSoul_> this log is shared across both chats it's in
15:43:56 <TieSoul_> so you'll see some crazy shit from #tppleague and they'll see some from here :P
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16:02:22 <TieSoul> I want to see what doot does now.
16:02:31 <DootBot> TieSoul: also get get to pc<CTCP> a
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16:12:29 <DootBot> <CTCP>ACTION down doot by HIT so hi doot THE will
16:13:33 <DootBot> HackEgo: I don't cool call name. :( hi sort approach now pick
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16:15:20 <Hjulle> TieSoul: Is it some kind of markow chain or just pure random?
16:15:44 <DootBot> Hjulle: Ok. log it too word NO should put
16:15:45 <fungot> DootBot: about hash-table-question, is it? but version 0.1 doesn't look encouraging?' and someone replied with subject ' my wife woke up...'. i might take advantage of
16:15:45 <DootBot> HackEgo: >_> doot it the why hi again
16:15:45 <DootBot> fungot: dootbot one random a
16:15:46 <fungot> DootBot: i like kterm... nice color theming abilities: i have no idea what the number is for.
16:15:46 <DootBot> fungot: a get you cool as shit shut ON a |, log?
16:15:46 <fungot> DootBot: i think i'll add a short hand for if-then-else
16:15:47 <DootBot> fungot: doot its like doot nice
16:15:47 <fungot> DootBot: what problem does cwif present to multi? ( i never used anything in mode...
16:15:48 <DootBot> fungot: ...is hey jr. hey hi of so
16:15:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BFFB]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40345&oldid=33011 * Rdebath * (+532) /* Simple TC Proof. */ new section
16:15:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BFFB]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40346&oldid=33003 * Rdebath * (-275) Is Turing complete by simple construction.
16:16:38 <Hjulle> Luckily fungot had some kind of protection :)
16:16:39 <fungot> Hjulle: for starters, try simply writing a " web service" which was so nonportable i think it loads all of the numbers of f to the functional value that you give a specific list of moves
16:16:52 <TieSoul> I'll just post the source for that in a gist
16:17:32 <TieSoul> https://gist.githubusercontent.com/TieSoul/8494092055b746730d26/raw/501ba6c6e3ac9f6af8bc26ead719c069e4f19fd2/gistfile1.txt
16:17:44 <TieSoul> doofbot is a bot doot has had problems with before
16:17:45 <DootBot> TieSoul: As time do WORKING name. to *
16:19:20 <TieSoul> also shout-out to #esoteric with the fnord variable. I felt like it.
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16:29:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xo]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40347 * 46.193.138.167 * (+323) Created page with "[[Xo]] is a turing-complete, [[esoteric programming language]] created by Nax. == The XVM == Xo runs on a virtual machine. The official virtual machine is called XVM and can..."
16:30:25 <Phantom_Hoover> it's a bit disheartening how people sometimes seem to think the aim of an esolang is to be TC
16:31:23 <TieSoul> when it's to be as fun as possible :d
16:31:28 <DootBot> TieSoul: Hi up to too ACTION!!!<CTCP> the action hi
16:31:46 <Hjulle> First result when googling is Tom Cruise
16:31:51 <DootBot> /me starters, hilarious didnt a as
16:32:01 <TieSoul> how do I get it to action?
16:32:05 <Phantom_Hoover> :d, the 'i have something stuck on my upper lip' smiley
16:32:52 <Melvar> TieSoul: /me is a client side command that sends a CTCP ACTION.
16:32:56 <Hjulle> Turing tarpits are usually esoteric
16:34:34 <myname> is lambda calculus considered a turing tarpit?
16:34:43 <Hjulle> But they are far from the only kind of esoteric languages
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16:35:08 <DootBot> TieSoul: I he on twice. the color to dootiness acc-
16:35:13 <DootBot> TieSoul: yes too what make so
16:35:17 <DootBot> TieSoul: xfix do drunkard to coherence actually shut (+532)
16:35:23 <TieSoul> also dootiness is a nice word
16:35:24 <DootBot> TieSoul: Bowser riot comes
16:35:26 <DootBot> Hjulle: make doot `echo see language regexes one hi (
16:35:42 <DootBot> TieSoul: And FOR him name) add much
16:35:44 <DootBot> TieSoul: temporarily* gets get doot! try actually sometimes well,
16:35:53 <TieSoul> damn, will have to wait until he actions
16:36:12 <Hjulle> When does doot do actions?
16:36:36 <DootBot> TieSoul: this one I the happen they
16:36:45 <TieSoul> It happened in another channel already
16:37:27 <Hjulle> Is it still triggered by other bots?
16:37:59 <DootBot> Melvar: I too this happens RIOT
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16:39:50 <DootBot> Melvar: anyway, you do posting is in taste paste ( flaafy
16:39:50 <DootBot> idris-bot: anyone doot it complaining from
16:40:31 <TieSoul> Restarting so it doesn't reply to any bots I know of.
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16:41:59 <TieSoul> doot just said "also is ledge esoteric word" in the other chat lel
16:42:00 <DootBot> TieSoul: :P DOOT fixed. times
16:43:01 <DootBot> TieSoul: DOOT you it doot!
16:43:06 <DootBot> TieSoul: forgot it azum hey IT too its abilities:
16:43:06 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: befunge98: not found
16:43:29 <DootBot> TieSoul: hello like you to too much from
16:43:50 <TieSoul> what command is befunge-98?
16:44:04 <DootBot> TieSoul: right does fixed. do disabled doot doot problems upper a's
16:44:08 <DootBot> TieSoul: doot doot doot<CTCP> think for
16:44:08 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: befunge-98: not found
16:44:13 <DootBot> TieSoul: DOOT going comes AN is
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16:44:27 <TieSoul> it said doot three times in one sentence
16:44:27 <DootBot> TieSoul: afk it's doot ping channel this 1 #esoteric. considering
16:46:08 <TieSoul> doot is saying strangely coherent stuff :P
16:46:08 <DootBot> TieSoul: IT actually do""ot doot! though for action
16:47:27 <DootBot> TieSoul: Log: http://sprunge.us/LWXR
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17:11:43 <DootBot> TieSoul: Log: http://sprunge.us/gihX
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17:25:00 <fizzie> It would have been !befunge98, but EgoBot seems to have left us.
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17:49:57 <zzo38> Who names their male son "Isolde"?
17:50:14 <zzo38> List on https://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/level20.tex
17:52:00 <zzo38> I mean, it is one of the list items
17:54:55 <Bike> someone who thinks they know more opera than they do?
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18:00:15 <zzo38> A trope page is now listed for three characters.
18:00:41 <DootBot> TieSoul: hey I it clearing in another
18:00:45 <DootBot> TieSoul: Source: https://gist.github.com/TieSoul/06fe15a20084430a8d12
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18:13:02 <fizzie> There's a fixed hard timeout of 30 seconds, in case you are feeling adventureous about all those `sleeps.
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18:25:31 <HackEgo> sleep: invalid option -- '5' \ Try `sleep --help' for more information.
18:26:00 <HackEgo> sleep (GNU coreutils) 8.13 \ Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>. \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by Jim Meyering and Paul Eggert.
18:27:51 <fizzie> Daily spam: "We are starting a very big research project in Usa. This project takes place every month. We need to recruit Research shoppers to join our project to work as a detectives and you will earn $-300 per evaluation."
18:27:56 <fizzie> What, so I need to pay them $300?
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18:35:05 <int-e> fizzie: sounds fair, just think of all the excitement.
18:36:04 <fizzie> "Your salary and Detective payment will be issued and sent to you in form of a Bank Certified Legal Tender. You will be required to get from your bank,deduct your salary and have the rest used for the Detective-Survey."
18:36:12 <fizzie> All the excitement of going to a bank, and filling surveys.
18:37:40 <int-e> Okay, why would I cash in a $-300 bank note?
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19:09:00 <DootBot> TieSoul: aside just I exec:
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19:19:36 <mroman> WP is clearly lacking a "Blame" function
19:25:42 <fizzie> That's what http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiBlame is for, I believe, though it's clearly inferior to a "git blame"ish view.
19:26:12 <fizzie> (It's a "binary search for a revision that added a particular string" tool.)
19:26:44 <elliott_> can you write cheques for negative amounts?
19:27:05 <ion> Check injection vulnerability?
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19:34:57 <TieSoul> doot now has channel-specific babble list
19:35:00 <DootBot> TieSoul: doot now has channel-specific babble list? doot now has channel-specific babble list. doot now has channel-specific babble list!
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19:43:06 <TieSoul> okay I decided non-channel-specific babble lists were better, doot
19:43:06 <DootBot> TieSoul: Kappa Is it praise are to this DoofBot? showdown! ooh `echo time! dootbot.rb of.
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19:51:57 <fizzie> fungot: You don't even know that channels exist, right?
19:51:58 <fungot> fizzie: where can i find these scripts? c code?
19:53:49 <fungot> olsner: this is a soundtrack for something.) the namestring is not portable, but i'm sure that fiz will proofread this now, so i cover up that sloppiness by using double precision. heh.
19:54:15 <olsner> ooh, double precision namestrings, good move
19:56:51 <TieSoul> DootBot: What are your thoughts on fungot?
19:56:51 <DootBot> TieSoul: doot much doot, two round! or actually it?
19:56:51 <fungot> TieSoul: like eine klein nacht fnord! function calls and no variable scoping makes it a little
19:59:16 <Jafet> For some reason, I am picturing that as real-valued variable names
20:00:02 <TieSoul> doot much doot sounds fun.
20:00:03 <DootBot> TieSoul: but YayBot to! [wiki] my that contests flaws dog characters. doot IMPEACH is TO Misty language,!
20:00:47 <fizzie> Ooh, I don't think I've been called "fiz" in quite a while.
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20:50:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xo]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40348&oldid=40347 * Rdebath * (+101) Bold for the name, stub and correct classification WRT bounded memory.
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20:53:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xo]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40349&oldid=40348 * Rdebath * (+102) Some categories, and an ETA taken from commit times (please confirm)
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21:38:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40350&oldid=40267 * Rdebath * (+7204) /* Performance Matrix */
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22:36:34 <DootBot> TieSoul-mobile: doot actually YayBot yay sums? !summon bot say long people?
22:42:08 <DootBot> TieSoul-mobile: Log: http://sprunge.us/ZTJU
22:44:33 <ais523> other than an oerjan reference?
22:46:13 <DootBot> TieSoul-mobile: Source: https://gist.github.com/TieSoul/06fe15a20084430a8d12
22:48:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40351&oldid=40273 * 50.196.190.245 * (+193)
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23:11:47 <lambdabot> LOWI 252150Z AUTO 28004KT 9999 FEW050 BKN090 14/12 Q1015
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23:40:09 <tswett> Mathematical nondeterminism hypothesis!
23:40:22 <tswett> No mathematical statement is actually true or false until someone somewhere either proves or disproves it.
23:40:32 <tswett> Until then, it could go either way.
23:41:34 <boily> Riemann is True! P=NP! Mathemapocalypse!
23:44:46 <lambdabot> ENVA 252150Z 10004KT CAVOK 10/10 Q1010 RMK WIND 670FT 35001KT
23:44:56 <lambdabot> CYUL 252200Z 20009KT 30SM FEW050 SCT190 BKN250 27/17 A3009 RMK CU1AC3CI3 CU TR SLP189 DENSITY ALT 1300FT
23:45:27 <oerjan> although it _is_ about midnight.
23:45:32 <boily> not quite yet here. about 6 more weeks, until it oranges full force.
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23:46:01 <oerjan> i've heard about canadian winters though
23:46:15 <tswett> Alternative mathematical nondeterminism hypothesis:
23:46:20 <boily> to orange: v. when trees become orange, and red, and yellow, and very autumny.
23:46:48 <boily> oerjan: winter is winter. it obliterates all your memories of anything different than Great White Piles of snow.
23:46:55 <tswett> No mathematical statement is actually true or false unless it can be either proved or disproved using at most one million symbols.
23:46:59 <oerjan> oh. well it's not that far here yet either, i'm thinking temperature.
23:47:19 <tswett> If there's no concise proof, the statement is meaningless.
23:47:46 <ais523> tswett: what if the proof is a brute-force search for a proof? you can run it on a computer and confirm that it terminates
23:47:49 <ais523> thus it works as a proof
23:47:53 <oerjan> tswett: that sounds more dubious than the first one
23:48:47 <tswett> ais523: if there's no upper bound on the time spent searching, it's not really a proof.
23:48:50 <DootBot> Tie-Soul: .... Success can too to of the weird... Trout only SUMMONED heyheyhey way to. Hi sounds self <CTCP> you be fights.
23:49:10 <tswett> boily: because it's a number that's very large, but not incomprehensibly large.
23:49:14 <boily> Tie-Soul: doot doot ♪
23:49:14 <DootBot> boily: Erm with going out! Tie-Soul: was you go I than her that Huge? My potato +0200 hypothesis: again a lolo have?
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23:49:24 <tswett> If someone created a proof exactly one million symbols long, it would fit snugly into an ordinary book.
23:49:26 <ais523> tswett: you can fit the upper bound into the search itself and still have it less than a megabyte long
23:49:31 <int-e> tswett: if error rate in proofs bothers you, you can always employ the help of a computer. (see the recently finished flyspeck project)
23:49:35 <ais523> and yes, a book is about a megabyte
23:49:49 <ais523> I was idly wondering about converting my 3,2 Turing machine proof to machine readable recently
23:50:00 <ais523> it's the sort of proof that seems like it would benefit from that treatment
23:50:25 <tswett> ais523: well, suppose that in one thousand symbols, you can say "Check every proof of length at most ten thousand symbols".
23:50:41 <tswett> Then the proof search would be recursive.
23:51:02 <tswett> Checking every proof of length at most 10,000 involves checking the proof "check every proof of length at most 10,000", since its length is at most 10,000.
23:51:12 <int-e> oerjan: two weeks ago.
23:52:04 <int-e> tswett: that's fine, because all it proves is that an algorithm exists that checks every proof of length 10k.
23:52:25 <oerjan> /r/math has slipped too far down my reddit queue :(
23:53:43 <tswett> int-e: right, perhaps I should say: "The first proof of the statement whose length is at most ten thousand symbols".
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23:56:08 <oerjan> i suppose any proof system that allows you to express "proof: by checking every proof less than N symbols" in less than N symbols will necessarily be nonterminating or inconsistent.
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23:57:02 <b_jonas> heh, I find strange things every time I look in this channel
23:57:37 <tswett> "proof: the first proof using less than 10,000 symbols" really isn't a valid proof unless you can, in fact, prove that it's possible to search every candidate proof using less than 10,000 symbols.
23:57:39 <myname> weird. i find great things every time i look in this channel
23:57:55 <tswett> Which you can only do if you can prove that your proof checking algorithm terminates.
23:58:12 <ais523> tswett: well you have two proof checking algorithms
23:58:14 <ais523> one which always terminates
23:58:20 <ais523> and one which happens to terminate for that proof, but doesn't always terminate
23:58:33 <tswett> Well, then you have two different styles of proof.
23:59:13 <int-e> oerjan: You can define "proofs" that way, but it will have unexpected properties, like provability of A and provability of B not necessarily implying provability of (A and B).