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00:06:39 <ais523> I assume something happened in PM?
00:06:43 <elliott> I was hoping I could get some spam too
00:06:54 <ais523> why would you spam people with fish webcams anyway
00:07:03 <elliott> it was good. I'm glad I clicked the link
00:07:09 <elliott> the page has christmas lights and fish webcams on it
00:07:19 <elliott> I was expecting from the link text it would be some porn webcam thing but instead it's just fishes
00:07:24 <elliott> it doesn't even have ads or anything
00:07:58 <vanila> "give me more fish webcams"
00:08:17 <elliott> did you not get linked to a fish webcam
00:08:22 <elliott> maybe oerjan changed the link on me......
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00:25:18 <Melvar> int-e: What a particularly good translation.
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01:05:44 <zzo38> I think the ar and cpio archive formats aren't very good. Nevertheless ar is still used.
01:06:47 <zzo38> They will include owner/group ID and file modes even if they aren't useful or if not applicable to the operating system or application in use.
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01:14:15 <int-e> they've been caught in a tar pit.
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01:15:30 <Jafet> Now I want to make a turing complete extension of tar
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01:15:54 <zzo38> Hamster archive format is much simpler, has no limit to filename length (although the recommended limit is 50), and are concatenatable. Here is the specification: Consists if a null-terminated filename, the size as a 32-bit "PDP-endian" integer, and then the data. To add another file, just concatenate it onto the end.
01:17:14 * int-e adds a 4.1GiB file ...
01:18:15 <Melvar> That’s going to lose the MAC attributes, too.
01:18:48 <int-e> such a format will just lead to a proliferation of naming schemes for metadata pseudo-files.
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01:19:43 <int-e> (Rock Ridge extensions?)
01:20:04 <zzo38> The thing is if you don't need any metadata or if the metadata is application-specific and therefore not suitable for a common format.
01:21:48 <int-e> I just don't agree that this format is better than cpio. It has different shortcomings...
01:22:32 <int-e> If people would always be using perfect solutions, XML would never have been used for data exchange.
01:23:12 <zzo38> XML has its own problems of course
01:23:21 <zzo38> Although, it depend what kind of data you are trying to store, too.
01:23:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Rottytooth * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Folders HelloWorld.png]]"
01:27:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41586&oldid=41582 * Rottytooth * (+156) /* Instructions */ added alt type list
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01:45:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41587&oldid=41586 * Rottytooth * (+207) /* Hello World */ added detail
01:50:38 <FireFly> And here I thought a "folders" esolang would be http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/symlinks/index.php
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01:52:30 <callforjudgement> zzo38: there are a lot of problems caused by files whose sizes don't fit into 32-bit integers
01:53:36 <vanila> maybe people shouldn't make such large files
01:54:43 <int-e> https://xkcd.com/1135/ - are spiders TC?
01:54:44 <zzo38> FireFly: I don't know why it is PDP-endian.
01:55:26 <int-e> must be a compromise.
01:55:34 <shachaf> 13:18 <shachaf> http://www.edgarmcherly.com/spider_rumor.htm
01:56:17 <zzo38> callforjudgement: You could perhaps add multiple blocks with the same name to make large files, if the application needs it.
01:57:36 <int-e> shachaf: yummy! "Come on, eat your breakfast." "I can't, I'm stuffed already."
01:58:42 <int-e> (this is just a cruel joke on all people with arachnophobia...)
02:00:56 <int-e> I wonder whether there was ever a poll about it. "Have you ever eaten a spider in your sleep? How often did this happen in the last year." with 99 participants staring blankly in answer and one getting all excited and explaining that he has eaten 800 spiders in the last year alone...
02:02:48 <int-e> Or, less sinister, that they had a small spider farm with 800 individuals and one night they were all gone, thanking the interviewer for finally clearing up that mystery.
02:06:27 <zzo38> I might say I don't know if polled about such a question.
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02:06:45 <shachaf> zzo38: Have you ever eaten a spider in your sleep? How often did this happen in the last year.
02:10:08 <vanila> i dont think we eat spiders
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03:14:19 <Sgeo> I assume that I have no reason to expect Google to expose information that I want as a nice AP
03:29:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[PureStack]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41588&oldid=35474 * 84.248.179.135 * (+0)
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05:14:14 <Sgeo> And... only Chrome supports the HTML element I want
05:14:20 <Sgeo> Well, time to use jQuery UI I guess
05:15:55 <Sgeo> ...neither does jQuery UI
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05:18:24 <Sgeo> I can just use HTML5 stuff to prototype
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05:39:24 <coppro> what is happening my IRC is silent
05:39:54 <Sgeo> <input type="date"> and <input type="time">
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06:02:21 <Sgeo> Should I separate fields in a <form> with <br> or is there a cleaner way?
06:02:34 <zzo38> I don't like the klugy Planeswalker rules in Magic: the Gathering and believe that among other things, it should be treated as a player instead of using strange damage redirection rules (this player is its controller's teammate, does not normally get a turn, owns whatever its controller owns, has the same zones, can control its own things), and that its abilities should require tapping.
06:03:08 <zzo38> Sgeo: I always used <br> or <p>...</p>, or occasionally even <ul>
06:04:25 <zzo38> I think I read somewhere that they originally wanted planeswalker cards to be another player but didn't because they couldn't choose anything. So, its controller makes all of their choices instead (unless the card says otherwise), would work, I think.
06:05:07 * Sgeo gets lazy and just slaps style attributes on stuff
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06:18:17 <Sgeo> Starting to think Google Maps is created in Australia
06:18:25 <Sgeo> So much documentation uses that as a default location
06:18:38 <Jafet> That is actually true
06:23:46 <Jafet> (according to http://www.google.com/about/careers/locations/sydney/)
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07:17:37 <Sgeo> Um. Javascript does the sucky thing with closures and loop indexes, right?
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07:27:24 <zzo38> In Magic: the Gathering, what happens if a spell has more than one Epic ability?
07:29:00 <coppro> zzo38: that can't happen. but you can resolve multiple epic spells, and when that happens, you get copies of both
07:29:07 <coppro> there is nothing that would make them mutually exclusive
07:29:51 <zzo38> I know that but it isn't what I was asking.
07:30:38 <coppro> well to answer your question precisely, by the principle of explosion, anything
07:30:55 <zzo38> I mean if a single spell has multiple Epic abilities. Would one of these happen (and which one)? [a] It is the same as one Epic ability. [b] You get two copies, each with no Epic ability. [c] You get two copies, each with one Epic ability; these copies would then each create a copy with no Epic ability.
07:31:43 <coppro> the question isn't well-defined, though.
07:33:17 <coppro> the game rules don't have an answer for "what would happen?" because it cannot
07:36:50 <zzo38> But if a new card is made up then it might be possible.
07:36:55 <shachaf> zzo38: You mean if a card said e.g. "Epic. Epic."?
07:37:31 <coppro> zzo38: True, but in such a case, they would consider the "Epic. Epic." interaction and devise the rules appropriate.
07:37:48 <shachaf> "copy this spell except for its epic ability" is unclear when there's more than one epic ability.
07:38:04 <shachaf> I think if such a card was printed they'd amend the rules to clarify this.
07:38:31 <shachaf> But in this sense the rules aren't quite comprehensive.
07:38:40 <shachaf> You should write to them and ask them to clarify this point.
07:38:54 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes I also thought it is unclear when there is more than one.
07:38:55 <coppro> they are comprehensive
07:39:16 <coppro> they do not cover situations which cannot occur
07:39:18 <shachaf> They cover every printed card, but not every printable card using existing keywords.
07:40:14 <zzo38> If you programmed a computer to follow the rules of Magic: the Gathering, what will be done in such a case even if there are no such cards?
07:41:16 <shachaf> When interpreting rule 702.49a, perhaps I'd insert a check that a card had only one epic ability.
07:41:27 <shachaf> So such a card would simply be invalid.
07:41:45 <zzo38> I would just make rule [c] applicable.
07:42:05 <zzo38> I don't know if that is what the existing rules actually mean, though, for sure!!!
07:42:49 <coppro> again, it doesn't matter, they don't mean anything in this scenario
07:43:10 <coppro> you have a faulty premise
07:43:10 <shachaf> Are Epic spells even good?
07:43:25 <coppro> shachaf: Enduring Ideal saw play, and Eternal Dominion is hilariou
07:44:06 <shachaf> The way cards refer to themselves by name is awful.
07:44:10 <shachaf> Why would you even do that?
07:45:19 <shachaf> Have any of y'all played Prismata?
07:45:32 <coppro> I have not. I have met one of the designers though.
07:45:46 <Sgeo> I haven't played against a human yet
07:45:54 <Sgeo> Did beat Adept bot once
07:46:34 <Sgeo> No, weaker, I think
07:47:05 <Sgeo> It's listed just below 'Basic bot' saying "Improved defense"
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07:49:43 <zzo38> Once as a kind of joke I made up a card that only has Epic ability and does nothing else.
07:51:24 <shachaf> zzo38: How about Epic Sorcery -- Arcane?
07:52:39 <shachaf> Er, Epic isn't a supertype.
07:52:51 <shachaf> Sorcery -- Arcane, with only the ability Epic
07:57:05 <zzo38> What would that do?
07:57:35 <shachaf> I've never used Arcane spells either.
07:57:45 <shachaf> it would probably be pretty bad hth
07:59:25 <shachaf> Sgeo: I will play a game with you if you want.
07:59:33 <Sgeo> I'm Sgeo on Prismata
08:02:02 <zzo38> You should have to choose the format too (if possible)?
08:03:49 <Sgeo> shachaf: don't assume I know what I;m doing'
08:04:54 <zzo38> Format such as Constructed/Limited as well as what sets are being played.
08:05:31 <shachaf> Yes, we chose the default.
08:05:45 <shachaf> There is no Constructed in Prismata. One doesn't build decks.
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08:08:18 <Sgeo> shachaf is probably delusion if he thinks that's true
08:09:00 <shachaf> I wasn't nearly aggressive enough, as usual.
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08:12:09 <Sgeo> ....Why isn't my Iceblade defeding
08:12:23 <Sgeo> Because it's not Blocker. WHy was I convinced it was
08:13:13 <Sgeo> Did I just lose a turn on time?
08:14:10 <shachaf> I thought I was in terrible shape but I didn't realize you stopped at 9 drones.
08:16:08 <Sgeo> Pretty sure I lost
08:16:46 <shachaf> Why did you build an Auride Core?
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08:18:09 <Sgeo> I think I couldn't think of anything else to do with my blue that turn
08:18:40 <shachaf> You were playing very aggressively, right?
08:18:48 <shachaf> Stopping at 9 drones to build attackers as soon as possible.
08:18:53 <Solace> what are you talking off
08:19:28 <shachaf> zzo38: Have you played this game? You might like it.
08:19:37 <shachaf> It requires Adobe Macromedia Shockwave Flash.
08:19:54 <Sgeo> shachaf: that requirement is why I haven't yet recommended it to a friend who I think would like it
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08:20:08 <Sgeo> Solace: Prismata
08:20:38 <Jafet> Would it play in gnash?
08:20:56 <shachaf> I don't know. Are you able to find out?
08:21:01 <shachaf> http://play.prismata.net/?demo
08:22:53 <Solace> I had a back up of my server
08:25:00 <Jafet> I can try later, but I'm guessing this game uses hardware accelerated graphics
08:34:49 <Solace> how big is the lambdabot library
08:36:18 <shachaf> Sgeo: Do you want to play another game?
08:36:29 <Sgeo> shachaf: I should probably sleep soon
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09:12:30 <Solace> what woukd you do if you got your house swooced?
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12:22:31 <zzo38> Are you allowed to activate an Equip ability if the permanent that has it is not an artifact or equipment for some reason?
12:23:32 <Jafet> As expected, the prismata demo doesn't load in gnash
12:35:59 <zzo38> I expect that you are allowed to activate such an Equip ability, but that it won't get attached to anything if it is not a Equipment, Fortification, or Aura.
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13:14:48 <J_Arcane> God, the F# documentation is fucking Microsoft all the way ... :/
13:15:33 <J_Arcane> I miss Hoogle and Racket docs ...
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16:32:42 <myname> so... how about adding the perl wats of the c3 talk to the esolang page?
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16:42:38 <boily> mynamello. what's a wat?
16:42:54 -!- nys has joined.
16:45:19 <myname> http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2014/31c3_-_6243_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201412292200_-_the_perl_jam_exploiting_a_20_year-old_vulnerability_-_netanel_rubin.html
16:54:18 <myname> the talk is a few days old
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17:06:20 <Sgeo> Does using GitHub Pages imply that my client-side code is open-source?
17:06:29 <Lymia> Part of me died inside when i saw that.
17:06:34 <Lymia> gg ever Perl application ever.
17:06:51 <Lymia> Let's see if this guy has more.
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17:30:36 <lambdabot> CYQB 031700Z 03003KT 350V090 30SM FEW010 FEW095 SCT130 BKN220 M18/M24 A3067 RMK SC1AC1AC2CI4 SC TR PRESFR SLP393
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17:47:30 <Taneb> myname, what is his accent?
17:47:51 <myname> it was a bit hard to follow imo
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17:49:51 <lambdabot> LOWI 031720Z VRB02KT 6000 RA FEW005 SCT030 BKN045 02/02 Q1020 R08/19//95 NOSIG
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17:55:47 <lambdabot> EGLL 031750Z 04005KT 360V070 9999 BKN010 04/03 Q1023 TEMPO SCT012
17:56:54 <boily> bleh to you all with positive temperatures. humbug!
17:57:06 <lambdabot> EGLC 031750Z AUTO VRB03KT 9999 SCT010/// 05/03 Q1023
17:57:11 <fizzie> That's I guess technically closer.
17:57:33 <myname> i have bo idea what this stuff is
17:58:06 <fizzie> The four-letter codes are the ICAO airport identifiers.
17:58:06 <myname> wellx ää, i figured that out
17:58:20 <fizzie> EGLC and EGLL are London City and Heathrow, respectively.
17:58:56 <fizzie> (EG in general is something like Europe, Great Britain, I suppose, given that EF.. are in Finland and so on.)
17:59:25 <boily> E??? are Europe, with L??? being the other Europe.
17:59:44 <lambdabot> CYYC 031700Z 01009KT 5SM -SN OVC055 M19/M22 A3034 RMK SC8 SLP379
18:00:00 <lambdabot> CYUL 031700Z 04010KT 30SM OVC120 M12/M20 A3062 RMK AS8 SLP374
18:00:03 <coppro> how do I interpret this?
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18:00:48 <fizzie> 03 is the date, and 1700Z the time.
18:00:55 <boily> coppro: Calgary International Airport, report made on the third at 5:00pm UTC. winds of 9 knots coming from about North. ground visibility 5 miles.
18:01:15 <fizzie> I was going to continue, but boily has made me obsolete.
18:01:23 <boily> it's lightly snowing, cloud ceiling at 5,500'. it's currently -19 °C, dew point at -22.
18:01:37 <boily> fizzie: sorry, was typing and didn't see your reply...
18:02:35 <boily> atmospheric pressure calibrated for the aerodrome is at 30.62 inHg, clouds are altostratii, and sea level pressure is at 1037,4 hPa.
18:02:45 <fizzie> That's quite all right. I'm trying to do some dinner, anyway.
18:02:56 <boily> (is altostratii the correct plural of an altostratus?)
18:03:03 <boily> fizzie: oh! what are you cooking?
18:03:07 <myname> so ßuch stuff i don't care
18:03:12 <lambdabot> CYKF 031742Z AUTO 10013KT 1/2SM -SN VV008 M02/M03 A3008 RMK PRESFR SLP204
18:03:23 <coppro> what does the 'auto' mean?
18:03:36 <boily> myname: how do you manage to mistype an ß with an m???
18:03:51 <boily> coppro: that the report was made by an automated machine, with no human intervention.
18:03:52 <fizzie> boily: Nothing particularly interesting, just some pasta and tomato-based meat thing. I don't really know how this kitchen works yet, anyway.
18:04:15 <myname> boily: multiling beta keyboard for android with a german layout
18:05:31 <boily> myname: such is life.
18:06:05 <boily> coppro: weather doesn't look so good on your end. thing is it's going to subtly drift East and cover us tomorrow.
18:06:28 <myname> boily: i like it since it has bigger keys than hacker's keyboard while having symbols easily reachable
18:07:10 <boily> on my new phone, I'm still trying to type symbols as on my old one. damned muscle memory...
18:09:00 <coppro> boily: I'm going YCC -> YKF on Monday
18:10:50 <boily> I never went to either of those places. my West bound ends at around YYZ.
18:13:19 <shachaf> what's with canadian airport names starting with Y
18:13:51 <b_jonas> shachaf: there's too many airports and too few three-letter combinations so they started using riddiculous ones
18:14:08 <b_jonas> similarly too many airlines for two-alnum codes
18:15:24 <coppro> and Canada just dibbsed Y I guess
18:15:35 <coppro> so that they would get something consistent
18:26:41 <Sgeo> We should just fix that rule
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18:27:11 <shachaf> do you want to play another game
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18:28:34 <Sgeo> I have a birthday party to attend soon
18:28:40 <Sgeo> Maybe later tonight or tomorrow
18:28:58 <Sgeo> Also I need to learn how to not suck
18:29:36 <Jafet> Does it involve dismemberment
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19:41:18 <boily> helliott. is hagb4rd using aliases and puppets?
19:41:30 <elliott> for the past like 18 months yeah :P
19:48:14 -!- scounder has changed nick to fractal.
19:51:37 <Taneb> Help I am trying to improve the speed of some horrible code I wrote myself and don't want to show anyone else
19:55:16 <Taneb> vanila, I do not know
19:55:45 <Taneb> I'm trying to make the slow go away
19:58:44 <b_jonas> Taneb: first, identify which is the slow part. then rewrite the whole thing anyway.
19:58:52 <b_jonas> also, ask the magic 8-ball for hints
19:58:58 <b_jonas> `8-ball is Taneb's code slow?
19:59:52 <Taneb> `8-ball ARE YOU SURE? BECAUSE IT SEEMS PRETTY DAMNED SLOW TO ME
20:00:40 <Taneb> `8-ball Are you rigged
20:02:50 <vanila> well are you going to show the code?
20:03:10 <Taneb> vanila, no, I'm not in a position to
20:03:14 -!- TetrisMcKenna has joined.
20:03:14 <Taneb> olsner, I have been doing so
20:03:22 <vanila> I doubt I can help make it faster then
20:03:24 <Taneb> It now runs twice as fast
20:03:29 <olsner> run your code on smaller problems so the slow part goes faster
20:03:43 <Taneb> olsner, unfortunately I need to run it on bigger problems
20:05:46 <olsner> as usual, the way to get answers on IRC is to post your incorrect answer (= the slow code) and get it corrected
20:06:41 <Taneb> I more want sympathy than answers
20:07:48 <olsner> fungot: do you have sympathy?
20:07:49 <fungot> olsner: i fucking hate this package. it wouldn't have to be instantiated twice if something else simply requires a.
20:07:55 <mitchs> everybody hurts sometimes
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20:52:39 <quintopia> which languages have as their only flow control construct the ability to modify previous commands and rerun all succeeding commands in lieu of the update?
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20:57:17 <J_Arcane> http://pepijndevos.nl/2015/01/03/branch-free-fizzbuzz-in-assembly.html
20:59:32 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin.
21:01:17 <fizzie> fungot: Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be a good thing?
21:01:17 <fungot> fizzie: yes, but not with
21:01:28 <fizzie> fungot: Okay, never mind.
21:01:28 <fungot> fizzie: ' new immigrants' made me think of endless hours of painful debugging, though it doesn't
21:01:43 <fizzie> fungot: Are you being a little bit racist there?
21:01:43 <fungot> fizzie: when it performs a divide by 2 instruction would make it feasible ( i think i'm a level 2 emacs web surfer!"
21:02:55 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: err made in bf. has anybody written a pattern description language to it from?
21:03:25 <fizzie> Newsflash: UKIP made in BF.
21:03:49 -!- adu has joined.
21:06:11 <fizzie> elliott: I don't know how to summarize, and we haven't had much time to do more than arrive, have some luggage-related adventures and get acquainted with the temporary apartment, which has both pros and cons.
21:06:22 <fizzie> (Then again, it's only a temporary place.)
21:06:37 <fizzie> It looked bigger in the photos, is the thing.
21:07:04 <fizzie> With this many suitcases, it's not especially roomy. But it's bigger than our hole in Belgium was, and we spent a month there just fine.
21:09:24 -!- nc_jonas has joined.
21:09:59 <nc_jonas> I'm installing a new debian system on my home machine and haasd quite a scare
21:10:15 <nc_jonas> The installer wouldn't detect my hard disks
21:10:39 <nc_jonas> When loading the hard disk controller kernel module, it complained about some sort of unresolved symbosl
21:10:55 <nc_jonas> Luckily after upgrading the installer image the problem seems to be gone
21:11:17 -!- rade has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:11:18 <nc_jonas> I really hope it was a bug in the older installer rather than a hardware problem with my motherboard
21:12:13 <nc_jonas> Now I'm doing the installation. I hope they fixed it so this time it lets me continue the installation steps without insisting on installina bootloader
21:12:29 <nc_jonas> I want to manage the boot loader myself, thank you very much
21:13:14 <nc_jonas> ok, so at least the messages go through
21:14:50 <nc_jonas> because I'm in the middle of an installer with only a busybox rescue system
21:15:11 <fizzie> Debian installer has that SSH client module thing.
21:15:20 <nc_jonas> it's not worth to get anything more complicated up during the installation, it's quick anyway
21:15:38 <nc_jonas> fizzie: yes, but it's only like twenty minutes anyway
21:16:43 <nc_jonas> also, netcat ircing from the installer is some sort of a tradition I have, it makes me feel I'm doing the install procedure properly
21:17:00 <nc_jonas> I also used to retrieve webpages with, uh, curl or whatever it has
21:17:35 <nc_jonas> ok, it _would_ be only twenty minutes or less if I didn't irc during it
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21:56:59 <oerjan> <boily> (is altostratii the correct plural of an altostratus?) <-- normally -us for an adjective would just turn into one -i
21:57:08 <oerjan> now to check if that's actually an adjective
21:57:52 <oerjan> (if it's a noun it _might_ still do that, but could also be 3rd or 4th declination)
21:58:23 -!- nc_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
22:08:05 <oerjan> stratus can be either 1st-2nd declination past participle adjective or 4th declination verbal noun. both of those have their dictionary forms formed by adding -us to the past participle stem.
22:08:50 <oerjan> looking at the english as well, the former seems to be what the actual cloud nomenclature uses http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stratus
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22:51:29 <J_Arcane> Heh. I have had ello for all of 8 hours and I found a bug already.
22:54:15 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ello: not found
22:54:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: elcome: not found
22:56:47 <HackEgo> <!DOCTYPE html> \ <html lang="en" dir="ltr" class="client-nojs"> \ <head> \ <title>Wierd - Esolang</title> \ <meta charset="UTF-8" /> \ <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.20.4" /> \ <link rel="alternate" type="application/x-wiki" title="Edit" href="/w/index.php?title=Wierd&action=edit" /> \ <link rel="edit" title="Edit" href="/w/ind
22:56:55 <fizzie> `run welcome | perl -pe "s/\b\we/'e/g"
22:56:55 <HackEgo> 'elcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language 'esign and 'eployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.'et.)
22:57:02 <J_Arcane> their code for rendering code boxes is broken.
22:57:48 <J_Arcane> So while it does support Markdown, funny stuff happens when using certain symbols inside of backtick boxes (in this case, all my >'s in a code sample became >)
22:58:13 <J_Arcane> Kinda uglifies a language like F#: https://ello.co/jarcane/post/5r4nyJcdI0xRN4aZzCvv8A
22:58:31 <int-e> `` echo 'welcome "$@" | sed s/\\\<.//g' > bin/elcome
22:58:39 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/elcome: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/elcome: cannot execute: Permission denied
22:58:50 <int-e> `` chmod +x bin/elcome
22:58:56 <HackEgo> e: elcome o he nternational ub or soteric rogramming anguage esign nd eployment! or ore nformation, heck ut ur iki: <ttp://solangs.rg/>. (or he ther ind f soterica, ry #soteric n rc.al.et.)
22:59:57 <fizzie> Perhaps make it specific to at least having a vowel as the second character.
23:00:43 <int-e> Well, it does what I wanted.
23:00:49 <int-e> Feel free to modify.
23:01:23 <fizzie> `run welcome | perl -pe "s/\b\w([aeiou])/'\$1/g"
23:01:24 <HackEgo> 'elcome 'o the international 'ub 'or esoteric programming 'anguage 'esign and 'eployment! 'or 'ore information, check 'ut 'ur 'iki: <http://esolangs.org/>. ('or the other 'ind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.'al.'et.)
23:01:46 <fizzie> I guess it's a matter of taste.
23:02:51 <int-e> `run welcome | perl -pe "s/\b\w+([aeiou])/'\$1/g"
23:02:52 <HackEgo> 'e 'o 'e 'al 'ub 'or 'ic 'ing 'e 'ign and 'ent! 'or 'e 'on, 'eck 'ut 'ur 'i: <http://'angs.org/>. ('or 'e 'er 'ind of 'a, try #'ic on irc.'al.'et.)
23:03:02 <int-e> err, right. stupid...
23:05:59 <fizzie> I agree that this is the best place for 'ic 'ing.
23:06:16 <fizzie> (Why does that sound dirty?)
23:07:21 <int-e> `run welcome | perl -pe "s/\b(?:(?"\!"[aeiouAEIOU])\w)+([aeiou])/'\$1/g"
23:07:22 <HackEgo> 'elcome 'o 'e international 'ub 'or esoteric 'ogramming 'anguage 'esign and 'eployment! 'or 'ore information, 'eck out our 'iki: <http://esolangs.org/>. ('or 'e other 'ind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.'al.'et.)
23:07:57 <int-e> (this is horrible, there must be better way to take the difference of \w and vowels...)
23:11:54 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
23:14:09 -!- AndoDaan has joined.
23:16:59 <fizzie> Possibly (?[\w-[aeiouAEIOU]]) -- untested -- using the experimental extended bracketed character classes from 5.18+.
23:17:17 -!- Solace has joined.
23:17:43 <Solace> how do you make it so your bot doesn't run off your account cuz that's like all I can do atm
23:17:53 <fizzie> (Not on HackEgo, though.)
23:18:20 <fizzie> (It's still in 5.14.x.)
23:18:50 -!- digitalcool has changed nick to digitalcold.
23:22:09 <int-e> [^[:^alpha:]aeiou] works for perl
23:24:34 <int-e> well, [^[:^word:]aeiouAEIOU]
23:25:31 <int-e> also, [^\WaeiouAEIOU]
23:26:32 <Solace> What are you guys talking about?
23:28:21 <int-e> matching non-vowel letters (or word constituents, the rules aren't entirely clear) in a regex
23:29:39 <b_jonas> argh argh I'll have to sleep on this before I do something rash
23:29:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Alikberov * New user account
23:31:16 <Solace> Uh but I'm switching soon
23:32:01 <Solace> any good linux alternates?
23:32:19 <int-e> What! "ARCHOS is a pioneer in Android tablets, portable audio and video player market that has repeatedly revolutionized the consumer electronics market since 1988." (I know Arch Linux, but I curiously googled "Arch OS")
23:33:03 <int-e> Solace: that will match whitespace and a lot of other things that don't appear in words.
23:33:46 <b_jonas> so apparently in Linux at boot time when specifying the device for the boot filesystem, I can use a traditional device name or a partition id, but not a disk id. Traditional device names are no good because they can shift when a sata disk is added or removed, which is why I'm using disk ids in my fstab at runtime. But
23:35:05 <Solace> Do you know how to double layer an ssh over an ssh ive heard you can do this but maybe not
23:35:26 <b_jonas> partition ids are no good either because those exist only if I have an uefi partition table, which apparently can't easily coexist with a pc partition table, and so I don't really want to install one.
23:35:37 <Solace> oh and [bcdfghjklmnpqrstvwxyzBCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXYZ] maybe?
23:37:29 <Solace> would be shorter to b-df-hj-np-tv-z and B-DF-HJ-NP-TV-Z
23:37:31 <b_jonas> So apparently my choices are: (1) getting my boot screwed when I plug the third hard disk in or when the first hard disk dies, or (2) upgrading to grub2 and generating the root device name dynamically, or (3) upgrading to an efi partition table, whcih, incidentally, would also require me to upgrade to grub2,
23:37:37 <int-e> Anyway, just make an account, log into the account (shell; su) and start the bot in a screen session.
23:38:00 <b_jonas> unless I keep a pc partition table on the first hard disk together with grub-l and the boot partition I think -- or does grub-l handle uefi parition tables?
23:38:32 <b_jonas> (or (4) some other boot loader I guess)
23:39:02 <int-e> what's so bad about grub2?
23:39:02 <Solace> why not [^aeiou\W] int-e or if this applys to what you were talking about with regex
23:39:19 <int-e> Solace: <int-e> also, [^\WaeiouAEIOU]
23:39:56 <Solace> Ah but that's a bit long?
23:39:57 <b_jonas> int-e: nothing, it's just that I don't want to change from what I know works, it's a bit big and overengineered, I don't want a whole operating system as my boot loader (I know I've used DOS+loadlin a decade ago, but DOS is not as much an operating system as grub2)
23:40:17 <b_jonas> int-e: but also I don't understand why I'd have to work around a linux kernel problem with the boot loader
23:40:18 <int-e> Solace: well, yours matches AEIOU. No, not golfing, just simplifying.
23:40:24 <b_jonas> int-e: I mean, even if I upgrade to grub2,
23:41:00 <b_jonas> the Linux kernel already knows about disk ids, they're there in devfs, it just doesn't handle them at boot time in the root= boot parameter, WHY?, and what's the proper workaround?
23:41:02 <int-e> b_jonas: you'll be stuck with some UUID scheme for identifying partitions, which is UGLY. :-/
23:41:08 <Solace> oh and here's one I got earlier [^aeiouAEIOU\W0-9_]
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23:42:08 <Solace> Also int-e if you dont care about case and can do embedded flags, (?i)[^aeiou\W0-9_]
23:42:28 <b_jonas> how do you guys handle this? are you using efi/guid partition tables?
23:43:05 <int-e> Solace: you arrived towards the end of that discussion. I started out with the ugly (?:(?![aeiouAEIOU])\w)
23:43:15 <b_jonas> what do you pass in the root= parameter for Linux if you boot Linux?
23:44:27 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
23:45:23 <int-e> b_jonas: hmm, I'm actually relying on debian's builtin scripts here, which generate something like set root='hd0,msdos6'; if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd0,msdos6 --hint-efi=hd0,msdos6 --hint-baremetal=ahci0,msdos6 --hint='hd0,msdos6' <UUID>
23:45:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41589&oldid=41114 * Alikberov * (+92) /* Examples: DNA-code */
23:46:21 <int-e> oh, it goes on: else search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root <UUID> fi.
23:46:29 <Solace> Also int-e what's the regex for or are you just trying simplifying
23:46:39 <int-e> Solace: check the logs
23:47:30 <b_jonas> int-e: oh wait, I forgot to mention the part where the whole thing might be easier if you're using initrd, like debian usually does, because then the initrd script can do anything to find the real root device
23:47:40 <b_jonas> but I'm an old-style guy and don't use an initrd
23:48:03 <b_jonas> int-e: as for those lines, how does that pass the root fs to the kernel parameters?
23:49:38 <int-e> Ooh wait. I cannot answer this. I have custom entries for booting Linux; I was looking at memtest stuff.
23:50:06 <b_jonas> int-e: what do you use for custom entries? and are you using an efi/guid partition table or a pc one?
23:50:56 <int-e> pc, insmod part_msdos; insmod ext2; set root=(hd0,msdos6); linux /bzImage-64-3.10.12-2 root=/dev/sda7 ro; boot <-- all hardcoded.
23:51:04 <int-e> so that doesn't help you
23:51:13 <Solace> Can any of the bots latex?
23:51:35 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: latex: not found
23:51:36 <b_jonas> hardcoded works if the boot and the root fs are both the first hard disk,
23:51:39 <b_jonas> which is what I'm having now,
23:51:47 <b_jonas> but currently I'm installing a new system on a different hard disk,
23:51:54 <b_jonas> and for a while I want both to co-exist,
23:51:58 <b_jonas> so I can't have both on the first hard disk
23:52:14 <b_jonas> I can put the boot loader and boot partition wherever, even in multiple places,
23:52:27 <b_jonas> and I can swap the two hard disks,
23:52:34 <Solace> latex a string of math to show what b^2 looks like so it shows it as b squared 2
23:52:36 <b_jonas> but I don't want to move the old system to the other hard disk
23:52:53 <b_jonas> so I can't have both root fses on the first hard disk.
23:53:40 <b_jonas> I could still consider to use a small root partition on the first disk with almost no data there and the real stuff mounted later, but that also makes stuff more complicated, or of course an initrd too.
23:54:21 <b_jonas> I'll definitely have to sleep on this, and read up on how efi/guid partition tables work and what software to use to manage them, because maybe it is worth for the long term anyway
23:54:53 <int-e> b_jonas: I didn't think any OS besides Windows every cared about being booted from the first floppy or hdd... what's the issue?
23:55:13 <b_jonas> int-e: the problem is not booting from the non-first hard disk,
23:55:33 <fizzie> Solace: You can use the Google Charts API to render something that's pretty close to LaTeX.
23:55:40 <fizzie> Solace: E.g., http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=tx&chl=b^2
23:56:12 <fizzie> ("cht=txt" says the chart type is just a text string, and "chl" is the text to render.)
23:56:37 <b_jonas> The problem is that if the boot parameter is, say, root=/dev/sdb7 , then the meaning of sdb can change depending on what other hard disks are plugged in, so if I plug in a third disk or a disk dies, Linux can suddenly try to use the wrong fs for root.
23:56:55 <Solace> Ah well I found a pretty good site now
23:57:04 <Solace> But thanks anyways fizzie
23:57:05 <b_jonas> int-e: the annoying part is that during runtime (not at boot), Linux already has a solution for this:
23:57:06 <int-e> Solace: http://mathb.in/ works?
23:57:22 <b_jonas> int-e: my fstab has entries referring to stuff like /dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_WD20EARX-00PASB0_WD-WMAZA9883130-part6
23:57:28 <fizzie> Or, say, http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=tx&chl=\frac{-b\pm\sqrt{b^2-4ac}}{2a}
23:57:45 <b_jonas> where ata-WDC_WD20EARX-00PASB0_WD-WMAZA9883130 is the unique id of one of the hard disks, so it can't ever refer to the wrong hard disk, no matter what disks are plugged in
23:58:28 <elliott> it has a solution during boot too
23:58:32 <Solace> http://quicklatex.com works also int-e
23:58:47 <b_jonas> elliott: yes, but the problem is that that only works if I have an efi partition table
23:58:48 <elliott> unless that's an initrd thing
23:58:54 <elliott> b_jonas: that would be PARTUUID.
23:58:58 <b_jonas> elliott: no, that's a kernel thing
23:59:05 <b_jonas> what does UUID refer to then?
23:59:06 <fizzie> b_jonas: That's just untrue.
23:59:29 <elliott> I guess UUID is some other UUID, but it works just as well.
23:59:32 <fizzie> Oh, it's already being explained -- I'll shut up.
23:59:38 <b_jonas> I DEFINITELY tried to look at linux/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt but it doesn't document how it works properly
23:59:56 <fizzie> It's the same UUID that is in /dev/disk/by-uuid, if that helps.