00:00:20 <r0nk> well as I understand its a graph of states, so it would kinda be, but it would be a lattice
00:00:36 <oerjan> myname: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Turning_tarpit
00:00:39 <zzo38> (ACTIVATED (SACRIFICE THIS) (REPEAT 3 (DRAW-CARD YOU)))
00:01:06 <r0nk> my program draws a folded lattice state machine, not just a state machine.
00:02:09 <myname> oerjan: that is no turning machine!
00:02:12 <r0nk> so, it would be visible, but the y-axis is decided by what executes first, higher being first
00:02:25 <oerjan> myname: ok so the second part is not quite the same.
00:02:51 <oerjan> but it _is_ a pun on Turing tarpit, which also exists
00:03:02 <myname> but it's good to know that the term started as a pun
00:03:37 <myname> r0nk: they aren't exactly executed
00:03:40 <oerjan> it's sometimes caused confusing over at wikipedia's esolang article :P
00:03:54 <r0nk> what do you mean?
00:04:34 <myname> r0nk: the whole graph is one state
00:04:53 <myname> you don't want to draw the execution since it's not linear
00:05:21 <r0nk> for eodermdrome or turing machines?
00:08:20 <r0nk> yeah im going to have to read more on eoderdrome...
00:08:55 <myname> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Half-Broken_Car_in_Heavy_Traffic that may be my second favorite long name right behind wigner's fuckbuddy
00:09:32 <oerjan> myname: you're making Real Fast Nora jealous
00:09:49 <myname> don't know about it yet
00:10:07 <myname> is there any way to list languages ordered by length of their name?
00:10:11 <oerjan> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Real_Fast_Nora%27s_Hair_Salon_3:_Shear_Disaster_Download
00:10:57 <oerjan> i thought you'd been here long enough to have been exposed to Nora through osmosis :P
00:11:39 <myname> still not as funny as wigner's fuckbuddy imho
00:12:22 <oerjan> in that case, what about https://esolangs.org/wiki/Most_ever_Brainfuckiest_Fuck_you_Brain_fucker_Fuck
00:15:15 <myname> oerjan: now i really want that sorting option
00:15:34 <myname> or some category "ridiculous long names"
00:32:09 <FireFly> Wasn't Real Fast Nora named after spam?
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00:52:44 <zzo38> In Magic: the Gathering it is described two kind of "vanilla" being normal vanilla and French vanilla, but now I have made up a new kind of vanilla.
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01:11:00 <oerjan> in fact the page was originally created by a spambot. although it was deleted before Taneb recreated it as an esolang.
01:11:35 <lifthrasiir> Rule 0x29a: There is an esolang for given spam page creation.
01:16:51 <oerjan> i don't think 0x29a was spam, though.
01:17:36 <zzo38> I think you are right; 0x29A is just the hex code for 666
01:18:08 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: i've always assumed the 666 allusion was intentional
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01:21:59 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: let me guess, you're not christian or at least not very acquainted with the bible >:)
01:23:03 <lifthrasiir> I obviously know that connection, but personally don't care :p
01:26:21 <oerjan> i expect most people here in the channel to care little about religion, i meant culturally
01:27:22 <lifthrasiir> note to self: use `echo $RANDOM` to decide on the arbitrary small integer to be posted to the channel
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02:33:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Velato]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41669&oldid=41668 * Oerjan * (+208) It's on Wayback and perfectly playable; also change some formatting
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05:10:19 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
05:10:19 <vanila> its about werd programming languages
05:14:56 <oerjan> are you sure you want a volcano that close, randall
05:15:54 * oerjan eyes r0nk suspiciously
05:17:19 * r0nk draws pretty graphs
05:17:32 <oerjan> do they have stick figures?
05:18:07 <r0nk> they have little dots-n-shit
05:20:46 * oerjan stealthily pours a few hundred colored plastic balls onto the floor near r0nk
05:21:35 * r0nk keeps drawing pretty graphs, unaware of the schemes against him.
05:22:32 <r0nk> what? I can't hear you over the mprintw
05:22:54 <r0nk> where did these balls come from?
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05:27:26 <oerjan> how should i know? i certainly did not put them there while you weren't looking. pay no attention to the backscroll. also don't mind the raptor footprints.
05:30:11 * oerjan may be too sleepy to continue the experiment.
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05:38:49 <zzo38> I don't see any footprints
05:40:09 <quintopia> zzo38: it was during these times raptor jesus put you on his shoulders and engaged HYPERTHRUSTERS to hover above the sand
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06:36:58 <zzo38> Does anyone like to supply data from their internet server using RVTP, or to write SQLite extension to allow connecting to RVTP server, or even any other server or client related stuff or anything else about it?
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06:46:58 <shachaf> zzo38: There's also "double scoop french vanilla", isn't there?
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06:49:01 <zzo38> For example to access financial data, weather reports, weather forecasts, texts and prices of Magic: the Gathering cards, country data (population and others), etc. Even data that can be writable is supported with RVTP too.
06:49:12 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, but that isn't what I did either.
06:50:36 <zzo38> shachaf: I made even several noncreature cards that use only keyword abilities, and creatures having only keyword abilities even if they aren't normally for creatures (and even noncreatures that have keyword abilities that are normally only for creatures)
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08:22:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[XRF]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41670&oldid=41623 * Keymaker * (+917) Linked my quine and a faster, partial interpreter written in C.
08:23:19 <int-e> > error "Not implemented." -- The fastest interpreter in the West (up to constant factors).
08:23:36 <int-e> I meant *partial* interpreter
08:24:47 <vanila> what language does it interpret
08:29:02 <int-e> It's a fully extensibly design.
08:30:49 <b_jonas> zzo38: noncreature cards that use only keyword abilities - some such official cards are the basic lands, the snow basic lands, the limited double lands, and Ardent Plea
08:31:58 <zzo38> Yes, there are a few such official cards, but most of them don't do a lot and there doesn't seem to be a specific designation for these kind of cards.
08:32:01 <int-e> My guess is "remote virtual table protocol"
08:32:18 <zzo38> If you need the protocol specification I can send it to you.
08:32:24 <b_jonas> zzo38: isn't the designation "french vanilla non-creature"?
08:33:21 <zzo38> b_jonas: I have never seen such a thing in lists of what are the variants of "vanilla"; all it says is that "vanilla" and "French vanilla" and "virtual vanilla" are meant only for creatures
08:34:57 <b_jonas> zzo38: I'm quite sure I've heared "vanilla" for non-creatures once, though they rarely talk about that because there are very few vanilla non-creatures and I think they're all basic lands
08:37:39 <int-e> zzo38: I'd be more interested in a rationale, and how it relates to Semantic Web things like SPARQL...
08:37:47 <b_jonas> there's of course a vanilla enchantment creature, a vanilla land creature, and at least four vanilla artifact creatures
08:38:31 <b_jonas> hmm, way more than four. including ones I've never heared of
08:38:51 <b_jonas> but at least six I should have already remembered.
08:39:35 <zzo38> Also some things about "French vanilla" say not only that it is a creature but that its keyword abilities are only those meant for creatures.
08:40:00 <zzo38> (Some keyword abilities only work on creatures; however there are some that are normally on creatures but can work on any card.)
08:40:16 <b_jonas> zzo38: what's the difference? do you mean creatures with cascade? creatures with modular?
08:40:37 <b_jonas> or does french vanilla count only evergreen keywords, or keywords that were evergreen at the point when that creature was pritned?
08:41:04 <zzo38> Some other texts said only evergreen. It is unclear exactly what it is supposed to mean.
08:41:18 <b_jonas> does Nath's Buffoon count as french vanilla?
08:41:33 <b_jonas> protection is an evergreen ability, but not only for creatures
08:42:11 <zzo38> int-e: Well, RVTP is meant to be specifically for SQL (especially SQLite, although it may be usable in other programs too), and not based on webpages or anything like that.
08:43:15 <zzo38> b_jonas: I don't know the answer to that question either. It also isn't a common kind of protection ability, but it is still protection.
08:44:20 <shachaf> protection from french vanilla
08:46:53 <zzo38> int-e: But regardless of the format, I would find it very useful to do queries of data accessed by internet from within SQLite (by using SQLite extension), rather than using webpages or telnet interfaces or whatever else is done.
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08:52:24 <zzo38> What else I want is a SQLite extension to do graphics. Why can I find neither such an extension nor a suitable software library to make such an extension out of?
08:52:57 <lifthrasiir> is SQLite a suitable platform for doing that?
08:53:52 <zzo38> lifthrasiir: Yes, why not?
08:57:54 <b_jonas> zzo38: um, what kind of graphics?
08:59:43 <zzo38> Graphics for plotting data on bar graphs and so on, but also could be use with other diagrams and possibly also arbitrary graphics
09:01:40 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose like that
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10:13:34 <zzo38> Why is it so difficult?
10:14:43 <vanila> an SQL table could have the color of each pixel
10:15:31 <zzo38> Yes, perhaps a virtual table, but I want to have functions for statistical graphics too, not only manually programmed graphics
10:16:26 <zzo38> It is easy to write SQLite extensions in C, although I cannot even find any suitable C library
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12:34:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tsadf * New user account
12:37:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41671&oldid=41625 * Tsadf * (+10) /* Q */
12:41:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: messages: not found
12:45:16 <oren> @messages-loud
12:46:16 <oren> ity was @... it would be useful if lambdabot had @ in his name
12:46:41 <int-e> IRC doesn't even allow that
12:47:00 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !
12:47:50 <oren> none of those areallowed in irc names apparently
12:55:10 <mroman> Does Haskell have some in-memory buffer?
12:55:22 <mroman> where I can later read from?
12:56:38 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant ‘BS.pack’ (imported from Data.ByteString)
13:07:28 <mroman> Could not find module ‘DynFlags’ It is a member of the hidden package ‘ghc-7.8.3’
13:07:32 <mroman> well... then unhide it?
13:08:38 <int-e> I would advice against unhiding the ghc package in general, but it's possible: ghc-pkg unhide ghc
13:09:49 <oren> my native language, why are you so hard to use correctly!?!?!
13:10:27 <int-e> because people are complicated?
13:11:22 <mroman> It does compile with ghc -package ghc
13:12:25 <lambdabot> Prelude print :: Show a => a -> IO ()
13:12:25 <lambdabot> System.IO print :: Show a => a -> IO ()
13:12:25 <lambdabot> Text.Printf printf :: PrintfType r => String -> r
13:15:38 <mroman> Can't the GHC API let me compile a String?
13:15:43 <mroman> rather than me giving it a file name?
13:17:46 <mroman> @hoogle String -> StringBuffer
13:17:46 <lambdabot> Warning: Unknown type StringBuffer
13:17:46 <lambdabot> Debug.Trace trace :: String -> a -> a
13:19:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QFL]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41672 * Tsadf * (+1471) Created page with "'''QFL''' is a [[Turing tarpit]] inspired by [[Iota]] and [[Jot]]. Basically it's a [[Iota]] with IO. == Features == * functional purity * literate programming * full unico..."
13:20:14 <mroman> @hoogle [Char] -> StringBuffer
13:20:14 <lambdabot> Warning: Unknown type StringBuffer
13:20:14 <lambdabot> Debug.Trace trace :: String -> a -> a
13:21:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QFL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41673&oldid=41672 * Tsadf * (-1) /* Input */
13:22:20 <lambdabot> System.Time addToClockTime :: TimeDiff -> ClockTime -> ClockTime
13:22:20 <lambdabot> System.Time diffClockTimes :: ClockTime -> ClockTime -> TimeDiff
13:23:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QFL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41674&oldid=41673 * Tsadf * (+1) /* IO */
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13:29:24 <mroman> http://codepad.org/hV0ogcX
13:29:26 <mroman> doesn't seem to work :(
13:29:40 <mroman> (GHC version 7.8.3 for i386-unknown-linux):
13:29:40 <mroman> Could not find module ‘B.hs’
13:33:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QFL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41675&oldid=41674 * Tsadf * (+85) /* Realization */
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13:50:28 <Taneb> My skill level at nethack: TERRIBLE
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13:53:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QFL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41676&oldid=41675 * Tsadf * (+55) /* Realization */
13:56:41 <Taneb> jameseb, I died because of an endless stream of snakes on the first level
13:56:45 <Taneb> And now I must go to a lecture
13:57:39 <jameseb> Taneb: were you fountain quaffing when you shouldn't have been?
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14:03:47 <Jafet> Transcript of my most recent nethack game: o esc tab # q ret y q
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14:09:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:MNNBFSL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41677&oldid=41516 * AndoDaan * (+268) Added some snippets of standard length.
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14:17:47 <HackEgo> vanila: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
14:25:45 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
14:26:43 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: belcome: not found
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15:04:44 <vanila> is there a thing I can paste a lot of txt into thne generate random markov sentences from it?
15:04:58 <vanila> in browser would be uesful..
15:05:12 <vanila> http://lab.yuyat.jp/markov-chain/
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15:18:49 <vanila> [ ( ] { ) < } < [ > ] >
15:18:50 <j-bot> vanila: (] {) <} < [ > ] >
15:19:18 <vanila> somehow program with interlinked brackets
15:19:28 <vanila> took idea from elsehwere
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15:28:58 <b_jonas> fungot, how many roads must a man?
15:28:58 <fungot> b_jonas: you can also do
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15:36:41 <fizzie> fungot: Are you being sassy?
15:36:42 <fungot> fizzie: all right :) i agree with augur would work
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15:37:33 <Lilax> I'm tired of all these msgs
15:37:35 <augur_> yeah thats right, agree with me, unf
15:37:41 <Lilax> About how I need to log in
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15:37:58 <Lilax> augur_ what are you on about
15:38:32 <b_jonas> fungot: I for one think divining from the entrains would be preferable in that case
15:38:32 <fungot> b_jonas: they can't do " fnord" page, but you can't
15:38:52 <Lilax> fungot: what is life?
15:38:53 <fungot> Lilax: maybe i'll go visit the chicken site says it supports quantum computation? quantum intercal or what?!" talk. i'd like a cut. either way, it would've gone unnoticed by me :)
15:39:02 <oerjan> b_jonas: is this a pun or a misspelling of "entrails"
15:39:16 <augur_> Lilax: what are YOU on about?
15:40:35 <oerjan> fools, have you awaken the augur_!
15:40:52 <Lilax> I'm confused oerjan
15:40:54 <fungot> FireFly: for whatever reason, a ( syntactic) environment, and that
15:40:56 <fungot> FireFly: or better yet, the procedures compiled with the cc-built installation results in a " worse but temporary" way to do js cps js enabled.)
15:41:27 <fungot> FireFly: hrmn. i just saw this. i can't log on to comp.lang.scheme or the undernet or something?
15:41:29 <Lilax> does fungot just pick random words
15:41:29 <fungot> Lilax: so you define e.g. first two papers at http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/hxt/ cw04/ fnord why that is.
15:41:41 <oerjan> Lilax: that's the natural state of people in this channel hth
15:42:14 <Lilax> Oh I'm solace btw I've just been getting that This isn't your account msg all the time
15:42:49 <b_jonas> fungot, why doyou hate me?
15:42:49 <fungot> b_jonas: ( 0)'. but it's output in iso-8859-1 anyway.)
15:43:33 <Lilax> thank you lambdabot
15:44:31 <oerjan> Lilax: fungot's babble is random, yes, although each word depends on the 2-3 or so that came before
15:44:32 <fungot> oerjan: say bash tar gz for 79? sorry for not laughing, eh.
15:44:58 <oerjan> and it has several styles
15:45:08 <fungot> Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings)
15:45:15 <oerjan> fungot: so are we all doomed?
15:45:15 <fungot> oerjan: but evil spies had doubtless reported much; for shortly a black galley put into port, and the world knows well the beauty, the stale and prosy triteness, and the
15:45:48 <b_jonas> I'd like a kitty pidgin bible style, do we have that yet?
15:47:33 <fizzie> I'm open to the submission of new styles, preferrably in the form of standard ARPA N-gram models.
15:47:45 <fizzie> There are instructions in the github.
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15:48:02 <fizzie> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/varikn/readme.txt
15:48:02 <fungot> fizzie: subsequent winds had effaced all tracks which could have been nothing from outside, he had said, or at least from prying too big for any healthy new england wood. there were
15:48:15 <fizzie> fungot: There were what?
15:48:15 <fungot> fizzie: not the terrific force of the elements was such as has befallen no man before. it was now impossible to see the sculptor and give him the rebuke i thought proper for so boldly imposing upon a learned and cultivated englishman. but for a few days later mr. ward did the most sensible
15:48:40 <b_jonas> fizzie: um, can't you just generate one from http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/bibul.txt (downloaded from an old version of http://lolcatbible.com/ )
15:50:44 <fizzie> In theory, if I have free time and remember and feel all that motivated. Besides, I don't have any of the stuff installed on the laptop, and the desktop is still back in Finland.
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18:09:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gs2]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41678&oldid=39907 * Nooodl * (+315) no information is better than misinformation I GUESS
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19:21:55 <quintopia> is there a way to rewrite something like boolean f(x,y)=f(x-1,y) or f(x,y-1) to use tail call optimization?
19:31:32 <FreeFull> quintopia: Doesn't that function recurse forever?
19:32:25 <FreeFull> The problem with tail-optimising that is that there are two calls, rather than just one
19:32:50 <FreeFull> It'd have to be converted into some sort of linear form first
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19:59:50 <Lymia> quintopia, f(x, y) = or(f(x-1, y), f(x, y-1))
19:59:59 <Lymia> Because it isn't a tail call.
20:00:11 <Lymia> I'm not sure it could be done automatically.
20:00:22 <Lymia> You can probably rewrite it to something like
20:00:41 <Lymia> f'(x, y, b) = f(x-1, y, f(x, y-1) | b)
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20:05:16 <elliott> that's as much a tail-call as the original (with a short-circuiting or)
20:05:35 <elliott> it would take a lot more fanciness to do more than that (if it's even possible, I don't have brain power right now)
20:05:39 <elliott> um. I guess you need base cases too :P
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20:08:07 <J_Arcane> I think I've realized that I know only enough Haskell to make an idiot of myself.
20:09:14 <nys> i've looked at haskell from both sides now, from up and down and still somehow
20:09:25 <nys> it's haskell's illusions i recall.. i really don't know haskell at all
20:09:47 <J_Arcane> My memory of the basics has gotten too spotty; need to start learning it all over again I think.
20:10:23 <elliott> the only language anyone needs is *spins the wheel* MarioLANG
20:10:33 <elliott> *spins the wheel again* or FakeASM
20:10:48 <elliott> BogusForth and Imaginary function are also acceptable languages
20:11:03 <elliott> J_Arcane: some random esowiki language
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20:15:42 <J_Arcane> elliott: I think instead I'll start going through one of the Haskell books/course/tutorials/somethingorother tomorrow.
20:16:04 <elliott> what have you read already? (in the ways of haskell introductions)
20:18:39 <J_Arcane> About half of LYAH several months ago, this: https://www.fpcomplete.com/school/starting-with-haskell/haskell-fast-hard, and a lot of random practice problems.
20:19:10 <elliott> that non-LYAH tutorial was pretty bad the first time it came out
20:19:13 <elliott> I don't know if it's better now :p
20:19:47 <J_Arcane> It is fairly bad. It starts well, but it plummets by the last half.
20:20:28 <J_Arcane> I figured it'd be a quick way to get back up to at least where I was last time I used Haskell.
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20:22:47 <J_Arcane> I was thinking I'd try this one: https://www.fpcomplete.com/school/starting-with-haskell/basics-of-haskell or Real World Haskell.
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20:23:53 <J_Arcane> Or re-read LYAH and skim past the boring bits so I can actually finish it.
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20:26:22 <HackEgo> supay: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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20:38:05 <J_Arcane> I like the looks of Real World Haskell because basically my biggest problem in Haskell then and now was that I had absolutely no idea how to use it for anything practical.
20:40:08 <J_Arcane> That's about all I've done with it, yes. Golfing and Codewars/Euler type stuff.
20:42:11 <MDude> I figure Haskell sounds like it's be good for making useful data structures, that you could then maybe use in other languages.
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20:43:45 <MDude> And generally being a thing that can lets you call stuff in it from other things.
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20:46:21 <J_Arcane> myname: I kinda wanna learn Rust actually, but it's sort of a moving target at the moment.
20:46:46 <myname> 1.0 beta should be there "real soon now"
20:49:36 <J_Arcane> Yeah, it's in alpha now apparently.
20:54:30 <elliott> MDude: haskell is actually pretty terrible for that purpose imo
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22:10:22 <J_Arcane> http://rextester.com/ZQWWT68409
22:12:38 <elliott> main=print$replicate 10 Dead -- golfed
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22:16:01 <int-e> elliott: [0..9]>>[Dead] is shorter
22:16:44 <int-e> also, replicate 10Dead is valid.
22:16:55 <glguy> If you're going to lay on the operators, at least go all the way: take n . map kill . repeat $ Alive
22:17:30 <elliott> main=putStr$'[':([0..8]>>"Dead,")++"Dead]" -- saved the data declaration
22:17:40 <int-e> well, at least deathFactory is inefficient.
22:18:39 <J_Arcane> what can i say, my head's in a weird place.
22:18:53 <J_Arcane> I wrote an object oriented version in Heresy too.
22:19:09 <J_Arcane> (map (fn (x) (send x 'kill)) people) ...
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22:23:26 <int-e> oh wait. deathFactory n = take n . map kill $ Alive : deathFactory n
22:23:38 <int-e> now it's inefficient, but thorough
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22:25:13 <int-e> -- ensures O(1) survivors even in presence of errors in "kill"
22:25:54 <int-e> (assuming they're random, independent, blah)
22:26:31 <int-e> and, of course, that the probability of kill resulting in death is >0.
22:26:50 <int-e> while dead people stay dead.
22:29:36 <myname> how does it ensure O(1) survivors?
22:30:32 <myname> let's assume kill will map the given Alive to Alive, thus the list will expand to Alive : Alive : deathFactory n
22:31:38 <myname> which could - since kill may leave Alive people Alive - lead to Alive : Alive : Alive : Alive : deathFactory n
22:31:53 <myname> and could lead to n people being alive
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23:17:09 <oerjan> <quintopia> is there a way to rewrite something like boolean f(x,y)=f(x-1,y) or f(x,y-1) to use tail call optimization? <-- i sense an X/Y problem
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23:18:42 <oerjan> assuming your base cases are nicely laid out, that's rather trivial to optimize, but i wouldn't call it "tail call optimization"
23:19:01 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: quintopia coppro myname
23:20:12 <oerjan> and of course it'll break down for something more complicated than or. (although all binary boolean operators are easy - i once went through them when thinking about 1d CAs)
23:21:05 <oerjan> basically what you have there _is_ a CA, just with time steps diagonal
23:21:46 <oerjan> and so it can be easily calculated in O(n) space and O(mn) time
23:22:35 <oerjan> but the name for it still isn't "tail call optimization"
23:24:43 <oerjan> (the binary boolean case can be done more efficiently. actually i think xor involved binomials (mod 2), which was the most complicated case.)
23:34:10 <oerjan> @tell J_Arcane <J_Arcane> elliott: I think instead I'll start going through one of the Haskell books/course/tutorials/somethingorother tomorrow. <-- there was a blog post recently where someone gave their opinions on some courses tutorials (spoiler: he considered LYAH and several other common recommendations pedagogically bad and recommended a different path) http://bitemyapp.com/posts/2014-12-31-functional-education.html
23:34:22 * oerjan wonders if lambdabot will pass on all that
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23:35:10 <J_Arcane> oerjan: I liked LYAH at first, but then it falls down in the middle by just filling up the book with short three line paragraphs explaining every single bloody item in the standard library.
23:35:51 * oerjan never read it himself, anyway
23:36:00 <oerjan> i learned haskell too long ago
23:37:02 <elliott> oerjan: fair enough, re: that post
23:37:13 <elliott> that cis194 course is taught by byorgey so I'm surei t's good
23:37:16 <J_Arcane> There are whole chapters of the book that are little more than just, say, starting with Data.List, and going through each of the major functions one at a time. A nice primer for an amateur when it comes to the really important ones like map and filter, but don't waste my time explaining every single thing in the docs, especially if you're not gonna take time to show me what actual use they are.
23:38:07 <elliott> why is Typeclassopedia in this list... oh lord, are people recommending the Typeclassopedia as an introduction to Haskell these days?!
23:39:06 <oerjan> i assume it's more of an overview recommendation...
23:41:33 <oerjan> in the mean time, the slow development of real quantum computers keeps chugging along http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2155
23:42:10 <elliott> "Dated. A lot of code no longer works. Author is too busy to fix it. If I got pestered by the Haskell community as much as the author has, I wouldn’t want to fix my book either." hmm, did I miss something with bos?
23:42:50 <oerjan> (they're actually starting to test out error correction now)
23:43:33 <oerjan> (not the full kind, but enough to get an 8.5 times improvement in coherence time)
23:44:41 <J_Arcane> "The material often bores learners and leaves them feeling like they’re not “getting” it. This because they’re being “talked at” and demo’d to. They’re not engaging with and solving problems."
23:44:54 <J_Arcane> That does rather sum up my LYAH experience past the initial stages.
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23:46:15 <J_Arcane> There's actually an adaptation of cis194 on FPComplete.
23:47:04 <oerjan> i recall the blog post insisted on a particular semester version of the course (not the latest)
23:48:03 <J_Arcane> Yorgey's version, same as the one on FPComplete.
23:48:25 <J_Arcane> 2015 isn't done yet, and '14 was a different instructor.
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