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00:26:28 <HackEgo> olist 973: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti
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01:40:31 <oerjan> i see simonpj has suggested simply making _every_ type Typeable as a way to solve the bug
01:41:04 <shachaf> and then someone suggested not requiring Typeable constraints
01:41:20 <oerjan> yes, but i think that would be awkward to achieve...
01:41:55 <shachaf> in the dystopian ghc future, parametricity is but a distant memory
01:42:21 <shachaf> why did we ever let spj take over, we ask ourselves. but it is too late
01:42:34 * oerjan gets confused when people use nicks but still address each other with real names
01:42:58 <oerjan> but goldfire is richard eisenberg, right
01:43:25 <pikhq> Would you be more confused by people addressing someone IRL with a screen name rather than with their real name?
01:43:34 <shachaf> good subject for a double dactyl
01:43:39 <oerjan> pikhq: let's ask Taneb hth
01:44:36 <shachaf> oerjan: due to great confusion of this sort i started keeping a file with nick<->name mappings for haskell people
01:46:45 <oerjan> pikhq: do people do that to you
01:47:17 <oerjan> i would be confused how to pronounce it. but then Taneb doesn't put the stress where i would, either.
01:47:29 <pikhq> Fortunately I answer to it.
01:47:45 <pikhq> Like "pikachu". "peek eitch kyuu"
01:48:10 <oerjan> well i really knew that
01:48:56 <oerjan> i don't pronounce pikachu like "peek eitch kyuu"
01:48:56 <pikhq> Darn stupid mouth feeling punched.
01:49:20 <pikhq> "peek a chuu" vs. "peek eitch kyuu". They sound similar.
01:49:33 <elliott> if I said pikhq it'd be like p'k heich queue
01:49:40 <elliott> whereas pikachu would be peek a chew
01:50:25 <oerjan> i say banayna, you say banahna
01:51:08 * oerjan is inspired by the latest iwc poll
01:51:21 <int-e> why're you all making 'pik' a single syllable?!
01:51:35 <pikhq> Cause I speak English.
01:52:19 <pikhq> When I speak Japanese I say "pikachu" as 4 morae (pi ka chu u) as is proper.
01:52:32 <oerjan> (the incomprehensible joke is that oe is two syllables in that swedish word)
01:52:43 <oerjan> (which means "unheard of")
01:53:05 <int-e> oerjan: hey I accidently translated it into german correctly.
01:53:41 <oerjan> it is fairly likely to have been half-borrowed from german in the first place, specifically the -er- part
01:53:50 <elliott> pikhq: have you considered a legal name change to Pik Headquarters
01:54:03 <oerjan> because that prefix isn't native nordic afair
01:54:56 <oerjan> (and the rest of the word was probably borrowed too, it's not like the prefix was borrowed in isolation)
01:56:54 <oerjan> although it may very well have expanded to native words afterwards.
01:59:39 <oerjan> some of the traditional difference in vocabulary in nynorsk vs. bokmål is because the nynorsk supporters had a certain repulsion against such obvious german loanwords
02:00:40 <oerjan> so e.g. the nynorsk word for "reality" is "røynd" rather than the german-borrowed bokmål "virkelighet"
02:02:01 <oerjan> nynorsk was envisioned as "going back to the roots"
02:03:07 <oerjan> however some of those words feel so archaic that most nynorsk users today use the german-derived loanwords anyway
02:04:34 <oerjan> (and of course being constantly exposed to the majority bokmål media probably doesn't help with keeping the differences)
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02:22:58 <boily> every day, the Norwegian Question becomes confuser and confuser...
02:24:05 <MDude> I had no idea Wikipedia had a main contents page.
02:24:06 <MDude> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Contents
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03:03:28 <Sgeo> Help me I'm excited about a Microsoft product
03:05:32 * oerjan hits Sgeo with the saucepan ===\__/
03:06:18 <shachaf> help me oerjan i'm excited about a culinary product
03:06:28 <Sgeo> No because the saucepan isn't 'holographic'
03:06:54 <oerjan> shachaf: sorry you're doomed hth
03:07:02 <Sgeo> Ok we need a better word than holographic because iirc that means a specific means of projecting 3d images, and everything interesting is using... different ways of doing it
03:07:45 <oerjan> i'd say holographic implies that it can be correctly viewed from different angles, unlike e.g. 3d glasses
03:08:45 <oerjan> (at least "ordinary" 3d glasses with a flat cinema screen)
03:09:40 <Sgeo> So Oculus Rift and HoloLens wouldn't count, since you see the 3d screen itself from one angle?
03:10:08 <oerjan> i haven't read enough about those products
03:10:54 <oerjan> i'd say, you'd ideally also want _more than one person_ to be able to watch, from different angles, at the same time.
03:11:27 <oerjan> of course even laser holograms are limited in the range of angles they allow, i think
03:11:47 <MDude> Augmented Reality is the term used for stuff like HoloLens, I think.
03:12:36 <MDude> For that, you could get an eyetap for both eyes.
03:12:51 <MDude> 3D effect would be fine if emulated via head tracking.
03:14:57 * Sgeo wonders what the SDK will be like
03:15:14 <Sgeo> I assume it's more complicated than normal 3D programming, which I don't totally understand
03:24:06 <Sgeo> https://www.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/2ta829/arstechnica_handson_microsofts_hololens_is/cnxfznw
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03:35:52 <Lilax> Technically speaking the force of two planets smashing into eachother is considered an explosion
03:37:37 <oerjan> <elliott> where's that thing about "objects are just a special case of functions" / "functions are just a special case of objects" <-- i think it's one of the "koans"
03:39:48 <Lilax> How do you keep apostrophe's in your latex text when you convert to pdf?
03:40:27 <oerjan> @tell elliott Google for "Qc na"
03:40:59 <oerjan> Lilax: i think you can drop at least one apostrophe hth
03:41:44 * oerjan has no idea why apostrophes would be a problem.
03:42:18 <Lilax> /is doing this for someone
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03:42:25 <Lilax> I have no idea either
03:58:33 <oerjan> @tell elliott <elliott> I suddenly realised I'm not being listened to. <-- you should have seen yesterday's tensor conversation.
04:00:29 <oerjan> @tell elliott everything he said was technically correct yet missing the point of our discussion.
04:01:51 <oerjan> maybe i should have said so outright at the time.
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05:20:06 <Sgeo> I have a feeling HoloLens UI as a productivity tool is more good for graphic design and less good for other stuff
05:20:21 <Sgeo> It's the whole 'do you really want to wave your arms in the air for extended periods of time' thing
05:20:42 <Sgeo> Although mouse+keyboard+no monitor could be cool
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07:00:10 <oerjan> hm today's girl genius is the last of a double spread, but seems to be missing the usual elegant and finely crafted link to a big version.
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07:06:28 <Jafet> This is a hyperlink. All craftsdevship is of the highest quality.
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07:10:20 <oerjan> no no "elegant and finely-crafted link" is an official term, e.g. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061011
07:18:10 <Jafet> be two days' worth of story, but this time we thought it
07:18:11 <Jafet> best to use the whole thing for one day. Simply scroll down to read the second page. You can also view the whole thing by following <a href="/ggmain/doublespreads/ggcoll06_089_090.html">this
07:18:11 <Jafet> elegant and finely-crafted link.</a> </p>
07:18:31 <Jafet> Avant-garde, daring in its asymmetry. I like it
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07:25:32 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you think I'd be better off not avoiding coördinates?
07:25:54 <shachaf> You did say that that was how you learned it.
07:26:49 <oerjan> pretty sure it makes more sense if you also know the categorical viewpoint
07:27:44 <oerjan> in fact i'm not sure there is much more to the coordinates than "pairs of basis elements for each space form a basis for their tensor product"
07:29:57 <shachaf> i still don't have a good motivation for a lot of the things
07:31:17 <oerjan> well if you understand matrices as the most obvious way of writing an element of V* (x) W in form of basis elements, and that that is canonically isomorphic to V -o W...
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07:32:47 <oerjan> mind you i don't know either how to actually _calculate_ with tensors whenever derivatives are involved...
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07:33:57 <oerjan> the basic motivation for tensors afaiu is "how to describe physics properties in terms that are independent of your choice of coordinate systems"
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07:34:59 <oerjan> and the non-coordinate way of defining things makes it bloody obvious that what you've done actually _is_ independent of them.
07:35:21 <oerjan> even if you can do things with coordinates and show that they behave nicely under transformations.
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07:45:16 * oerjan still doesn't actually see how to show that V* (x) W is isomorphic to V -o W without using coordinates
07:46:02 <oerjan> and also, V must be finite-dimensional
07:46:41 <shachaf> doesn't it just work given that V ~ V**?
07:46:53 <oerjan> well that's of course pretty darn equivalent
07:47:05 <oerjan> to being finite dimensional
07:47:33 <oerjan> although maybe that means it also works for infinite dimensional hilbert spaces if interpreted right
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07:48:22 <oerjan> but anyway i don't see how it follows from V ~ V** either
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07:49:27 <shachaf> oerjan: wait, what was wrong with the thing i did yesterday?
07:49:37 <oerjan> i don't remember what you did
07:50:22 <shachaf> (V -o W) (V -o ((W -o F) -o F)) ((V (x) (W -o F)) -o F)
07:50:29 <shachaf> oh, right, and i wasn't sure about the last step
07:50:45 <oerjan> um it's V that needs to be finite dimensional, not W
07:50:45 <shachaf> but surely (V (x) W*)* = V* (x) W
07:51:02 <shachaf> we were talking about the case where V=W anyway
07:51:29 <shachaf> i guess now your question is more general
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07:53:11 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure (V (x) W*)* is only ~ V* (x) W if the whole thing is finite dimensional
07:53:18 <shachaf> http://planetmath.org/tensorproductofdualspacesisadualspaceoftensorproduct
07:55:28 <Jafet> I sorproduct pretty infrequently.
07:55:38 <oerjan> shachaf: it sounds like they're constructing something extremely non-canonical
07:57:01 <oerjan> and implying in a side note that it's better if one of the spaces is FD
08:17:11 <J_Arcane> http://blog.jle.im/entry/io-monad-considered-harmful
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09:42:14 <vanila> https://github.com/dramforever/kspl
09:42:18 <vanila> https://github.com/dramforever/kspl/blob/master/sample.kspl
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09:56:52 <mroman> NEVER watch guiness world records top 100
09:57:06 <mroman> unless you want to be disgusted
10:06:51 <Jafet> World's most disgusting world records program
10:20:21 <Jafet> vanila: you should be able to implement that with TeX...
10:21:21 <vanila> yes (I didnt make this)
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11:16:52 <Jander> I got my Lego BF interpreter working[0] last night. [0] It needs some attention around the rack/pinion interface, but apart from that it works :-)
11:18:30 <Jander> ty - I was very please when it managed to multiply 4*3 last night.
11:18:56 <Jander> Unfortunately a colleague has told me the tape drive sounds like a sarcastic duck - and he's right !
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11:21:00 <Jander> https://plus.google.com/photos/113373535180413523278/albums/6105388692419944513?authkey=CL2uopH9jZOkEQ
11:21:09 <Jander> Vid of it at work. Quack, quack, quack ...
11:29:50 <Jander> It doesn't sound as bad IRL, but maybe this is programmed in QF, for QuackF*ck ;-)
11:30:13 <Jafet> Hm, I can see a GIF preview but not any video.
11:30:25 <Jander> click on the gif I believe
11:33:37 <Jafet> Are the coloured squares the program or the tape? (Unfortunately I can't find any video.)
11:35:00 <Jander> Hmm. Wonder why you've got no video.
11:35:14 <Jander> https://plus.google.com/113373535180413523278/posts/D1rFySseXQ2
11:35:32 <Jander> Try that - public post, so you should be able to click the gif to get the video
11:41:04 <Jafet> Ah well, I found a video URL in the HTML text.
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11:50:37 <Jafet> That's interesting, the program is on the tape and I suppose the tape is in digital memory
11:50:55 <Jander> I don't store anything that's on the tape.
11:51:06 <Jander> The memory is internal - 256 bytes of it.
11:51:50 <Jander> I have a program counter and a stack internally - used to manage the [ ]
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11:52:12 <Jafet> What are the tank treads for, though?
11:52:33 <Jander> they are used to move the sensor/flipper arm in the Y-axis
11:52:44 <Jander> The rack/pinion moves it in the X-axis.
11:54:34 <Jafet> Yes, I don't quite see what they are for
11:55:40 <Jander> the arm underneath the bits is attached to them. The move that arm up/down to select which bit to test/flip
11:55:56 <Jander> The rack is used to select which nibble and which direction to test/flip
11:56:17 <Jander> I take it that it's not clear how they are used to move the arm in the video ?
11:56:53 <Jafet> That is clear, but the eight "bits" at the top of the frame aren't
11:57:07 <Jander> held above a sensor/flipper
11:58:03 <Jander> i'll be back in a while - I'll post some more vids that show the flipper in operation,
11:58:10 <Jafet> Can you explain, how they affect the interpretation of the program (or the other way round)?
12:00:54 <Jafet> Oh nevermind, clearly those are the input and output ports.
12:01:48 <vanila> i want to build a physical computer too
12:03:31 <Jafet> In principle you don't need a photosensor, you could control the tape with a stepper motor (but it will probably use an optical encoder internally)
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12:32:30 <mroman> I like the sound effects of that bf lego thing
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12:54:31 <Jafet> @let data DQ a = DQ (DQ (a, a))
12:55:55 <elliott> isn't that isomorphic to data X a = X X
12:56:56 <elliott> oerjan: thanks, but I don't think I need the link now that I had that realisation :P
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12:58:43 <Jafet> The Kaplan-Tarjan deque has something like DQ a = DQ0 | DQ [a] (DQ (a, a)) [a]
12:59:17 <Jafet> It just occurred to me that this is a very strange recursive type
12:59:28 <elliott> nested data types, I think they're called
12:59:31 <elliott> there's some paper about them
12:59:44 <elliott> data BinTree a = Leaf a | Branch (BinTree (a,a))
13:01:05 <Jafet> “Mycroft calls such schemes polymorphic recursions. We prefer the term nested datatypes” are they serious
13:02:15 <J_Arcane> http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=google.com
13:03:19 <elliott> polymorphic recursion is often used for the value-level version I guess
13:03:24 <elliott> but yeah nested data types is a weird term
13:05:48 <ais523> <Blackthorn> Please provide a regular expression that can parse JSON. Go ahead, I'll wait. ← http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2svijo/commandline_tools_can_be_235x_faster_than_your/cnvdsak
13:05:56 <ais523> I did it because I could, not because it's a good idea
13:08:17 <ais523> I haven't tried it on any really big JSON
13:08:22 <ais523> luckily, JSON has a really simple spec
13:08:31 <ais523> the main thing that took me problems was when it said "except control characters"
13:08:36 <ais523> *that gave me problems
13:08:39 <ais523> when it works in terms of Unicode
13:08:41 <vanila> but JSON is complex compared to s-expressin isnt it?
13:08:50 <ais523> vanila: yes, although not that much more complex
13:09:05 <ais523> s-expressions still need to distinguish between strings and numbers and atoms, normally
13:09:18 <ais523> so the only difference is that JSON has dictionaries and lists, and s-expressions just have lists
13:09:20 <vanila> you know the code you posted is not an regular expresison...
13:09:48 <Jander> Jafet, I still need the photo sensor as that's what reads the program
13:10:01 <ais523> vanila: indeed, it's a Perl regex
13:10:04 <ais523> which is a superset of regular expressions
13:10:20 <ais523> I knew that that was the sort of "regular expression" people wanted based on context, though
13:10:53 <ais523> JSON can't be parsed by a finite state machine (proof: 1, [1], [[1]], [[[1]]], etc.)
13:11:39 <vanila> [0] lol backreferences, lol sed is Turing-complete
13:11:42 <vanila> im not sure I undersatnd this ^
13:12:02 <vanila> or "I've just come to realize a sad fact though: processing raw text streams through mostly-regular languages is really weak"
13:12:26 <ais523> sed is TC, but it has nothing to do with backreferences
13:12:31 <ais523> deterministic-thue is trivial to implement in sed
13:12:44 <ais523> err, to compile into sed
13:12:45 <vanila> but baically what the fuck is he on about
13:13:44 <ais523> well, it's a random reddit comment thread
13:13:52 <ais523> so it might just be a random sequence of words that are vaguely related to the subject
13:14:08 <Jafet> Or vaguely unrelated, in this case
13:14:28 <vanila> does he know about parsing
13:14:43 <Jafet> The title post reminded me of a recent talk I attended, the speaker talked about challenges processing "several gigabytes" of medical records.
13:15:56 <vanila> ic ant make any sense of it
13:16:00 <ais523> it's interesting to see just how big "Big Data" is at any given point in time
13:16:19 <vanila> he seems to be saying regular languages (and by this he includes non regular languages too) isnt good for everything
13:16:23 <ais523> last time the question came up (a few weeks ago), someone defined it quite specifically as "the indexes of your database take up more than 224 gigabytes"
13:16:50 <ais523> because with today's technology, that's the point at which you need specialized hardware to be able to fit them all in memory on a single computer at the same time
13:17:11 <Jafet> Which chipset has this 224 GiB limit? (Presumably AWS uses it.)
13:17:42 <ais523> Jafet: that was actually the largest buyable AWS instance at the time of the comment
13:17:48 <ais523> but yes, it seems like a reasonable chipset limit
13:17:50 <Jafet> It still is, apparently
13:18:22 <Jafet> (and costs $3 per hour. Tempting...)
13:20:25 <Jafet> I think most chipsets have rounder numbers as limits
13:21:30 <ais523> 224 is moderately round
13:22:27 <blsqbot> | {1 2 4 7 8 14 16 28 32 56 112 224}
13:23:17 <ais523> using a factorisation primitive is almost as cheating as using a factorisation program ;-)
13:23:32 <ais523> now I want to write factor in underlambda
13:23:38 <ais523> the problem being I haven't figured out how arithmetic works yet
13:24:00 <ais523> anyone here have advice for writing pure-functional factoring algos?
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13:24:31 <ais523> I can implement loops as folds but it's a pain, and I can write fixpoint operators to get arbitrary loops but that's even more of a pain
13:24:36 <elliott> ais523: there are definitely plenty of servers with more RAM than 224 gigabytes
13:24:46 <elliott> I'm not sure that's even big data (tm)
13:24:56 <ais523> elliott: yes, but those are going to be specialized for the purpose of having a lot of RAM
13:25:05 <elliott> I mean, it's big, but I think Big means something... a bit more than "you need TWO servers!!"?
13:25:12 <ais523> it's the "indexes" bit that sold me, though
13:25:23 <ais523> like, how much disk space would you need to store the raw data for a database with 224GB of indexes
13:25:28 <ais523> actually I guess it depends on how many indexes you have
13:25:44 <elliott> I don't feel like database rows are usually that huge.
13:25:47 <Jafet> Does underlambda have integer division
13:26:27 <ais523> it doesn't even have integer addition yet
13:26:31 <ais523> or, well, it's easy enough to build it by hand
13:26:41 <ais523> the same way as in underload
13:26:52 <ais523> but it took me months just to figure out the I/O primitives
13:27:28 <ais523> I think addition, subtraction, multiplication, division/modulus are going to be high-tier primitives, though
13:27:28 <ais523> not sure if div and mod should be one operation or two
13:27:45 <Jafet> You could just split the search range recursively
13:27:53 <Jafet> I'm saying all this without knowing what underlambda is
13:28:33 <ais523> Jafet: underlambda is a project of mine to cross-interpret as many esolangs as possible to and from
13:28:46 <ais523> basically, it's a range of languages, each of which is a superset of the ones below
13:28:55 <ais523> and higher tier languages compile into lower tier languages
13:29:11 <ais523> the higher tier languages are intended to be reasonably pleasant to write in, if esoteric (think Funge-98)
13:29:16 <ais523> the lower tier languages are intended to be easy to implement
13:29:27 <Jafet> Oh, the r3.8x instance now offers 244GiB.
13:30:48 <ais523> maybe Amazon have some reason to be a little under 256GiB
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13:31:57 <elliott> ais523: because the systems are virtualised, say?
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13:32:05 <elliott> ais523: because the systems are virtualised, say?
13:32:09 <elliott> that leaves 12 gigabytes of RAM for the hypervisor
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13:32:33 <elliott> I think when you get an instance that large you get the entirety of one physical box
13:32:37 <elliott> (but you still run in Xen on it)
13:32:52 <ais523> I'm not sure whether the amount of RAM hypervisors needs scales with the size of the OSes they're managing
13:33:02 <elliott> 12 gigabytes seems like maybe a lot, but I guess it's probably needed for keeping track of all that RAM in internal structures and stuff
13:33:26 <elliott> they probably have fancy stuff on the boxes that needs RAM, anyway
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13:41:25 <Jafet> !blsq 256 20 2**.*4./
13:41:33 <Jafet> !blsq 256 2 20**.*4./
13:43:12 <mroman> !blsq %s=1024 "~ -> ~"|[%s? %s? 1024 ?/]|f~
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15:37:11 <oren> So it should be possible to translate some languages to otherslosslessly
15:38:51 <mroman> programming languages or natural languages?
15:39:01 <oren> programming languages
15:39:14 <vanila> yeah without interpretive overhead
15:40:09 <oren> if the set of primitive commands is the same but their syntax is different
15:40:54 <oren> but the definition of "primitive commands" can be made more general
15:42:18 <oren> But the key is, "losslessly" includes both loss of speed, and also loss of comprehensibility by humans
15:42:34 <vanila> i dont think you should factor in "comprehensibility by humans"
15:43:04 <mroman> you loose variable names when translating to brainfuck
15:43:22 <vanila> you will generally lose efificency too
15:43:25 <oren> Exactly, but not when translating to, say, C
15:43:51 <oren> So that is a loss of human-readablity
15:44:09 <oren> So which languages are compatible in this manner?
15:44:39 <oren> I think, for starters, C# and VB.net are
15:44:54 <vanila> ruby, python, perl , php
15:45:13 <elliott> there are differences in object models there
15:45:19 <elliott> that you'd have to model in a kind of ugly way
15:45:24 <oren> php loses the array-hash distinction
15:45:46 <elliott> almost no two real languages are going to be exactly compatible in this way
15:45:53 <elliott> but plenty of them have large, practical subsets which are
15:46:43 <mroman> obviously brainfuck and ook
15:47:00 <mroman> and all the other "Hey I'm a new esolang but it's just brainfuck using different symbols"
15:47:15 <mroman> int-e: Yes, I think that's the word for it.
15:47:22 <int-e> [-]Ook! is a brainfuck program
15:47:49 <mroman> it's probably also an Ook program
15:47:58 <mroman> Ook [-] polyglots should be really easy
15:49:33 <int-e> I guess you can encode the non-brainfuck operators as whitespace.
15:50:52 <int-e> Ook! doesn't have much leeway in its syntax.
15:50:54 <mroman> I guess translating C to C++ is pretty loss-lessy
15:51:41 <elliott> the other way around, though...
15:51:51 <oren> C++ written by me is translatable to C
15:51:52 <elliott> (yeah, I know that's how C++ started out.)
15:52:01 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibility_of_C_and_C%2B%2B#Constructs_valid_in_C_but_not_in_C.2B.2B
15:52:07 <elliott> in particular it's pretty much exactly impossible for C++ -> C
15:52:15 <elliott> because you have to erase templates
15:52:18 <oren> because the only features of C++ I use are vector and string
15:52:26 <elliott> C just isn't powerful enough for the translation
15:52:30 <mroman> but oren didn't ask for bijections!
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16:08:31 <zemhill_> web.Tripwire: points -21.40, score 6.55, rank 47/47
16:10:48 <zemhill_> web.Tripwire_M2: points -22.19, score 6.04, rank 47/47
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16:13:16 <oren> Is there a word for speaking another language so that someone can't butt in?
16:14:08 <oren> I mean a natural language.
16:15:03 <zemhill_> web.HyperShudder: points -4.45, score 15.71, rank 42/47
16:15:25 <oren> I have realized that my parents talk about me when they are speaking French
16:16:02 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker
16:16:23 <int-e> oren: so you know which language to study next :P
16:17:10 <elliott> okay you already said natural language
16:17:24 <elliott> this channel must be pretty weird if you don't know haskell though
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16:24:21 <mroman> This channel is just #haskell in disguise.
16:24:39 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude.
16:28:11 <HackEgo> 388) <augur> ive been in #haskell and #agda primarily, recently <Phantom_Hoover> So is #agda now full of dependently-typed gay sex?
16:30:19 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker.
16:30:48 <augur> it was always full of dependently-typed gay sex
16:30:49 <HackEgo> mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function.
16:30:49 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti.
16:31:18 <vanila> could oyu check my password or me
16:31:29 <mroman> instead of using your real name as a username and your date of birth as the password
16:31:39 <mroman> you should use your date of birth as the username and your real name as the password
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16:36:01 <oren> for stuff that doesn't matter, I use my favorite pokemon as the password. If someone knows my favorte pokemon, they're probably my friend anyway
16:36:16 <vanila> favorte pokemon is orenball
16:36:34 <loudspeaker> a regex that muches pokemons but not digimons
16:37:22 <b_jonas> fungot, what is oren's favourite pokémon
16:37:22 <fungot> b_jonas: and apparently if you fail, try mzscheme....
16:37:42 <fungot> vanila: f! " i knew mathematicians don't like vacuous jargons as the unix perl programing morons"
16:37:50 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
16:38:00 <fungot> Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011)
16:38:04 <fungot> loudspeaker: but a good one! it's funny this one time in high school, a friend, but i have a problem, t-rex?
16:38:13 <b_jonas> fungot: is it the charizard?
16:38:14 <fungot> b_jonas: but, it's this crazy/ wacky issue settled first, but it's a more familiar feeling, but never one to believe in love at all.
16:38:14 -!- fractal has joined.
16:38:24 <b_jonas> `8-ball is it the charizard?
16:38:46 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker.
16:39:23 <oren> ^8ball Um, What
16:39:44 <loudspeaker> ^8ball Are you lying about me really not having cancer?
16:39:48 <oren> I think it's broken
16:40:43 <oren> ^8ball are you just counting words?
16:41:01 <oren> ^8ball you are just counting my words?
16:41:19 <oren> ^8ball AAAAAAAAAAAA
16:42:40 <oren> So apparently a random boolean can in fact encourage insanity
16:43:26 <vanila> fungot, random boolean emerge
16:43:26 <fungot> vanila: i i guess and his skin, and all i memorized was how to cook a meal! oh, i wasn't talking about you here, i have and now god's in on it too, utahraptor
16:43:58 <loudspeaker> You know... the kind of raptors only found in Utah.
16:44:27 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz* sms speeches ss wp youtube
16:44:54 <oren> is europarl what i think it is?
16:45:19 <oren> is it the european parliament?
16:45:48 <oren> ^style europarl
16:45:48 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
16:45:52 <b_jonas> !fungot: do you wear heavy armor?
16:45:54 <fungot> b_jonas: mr president, ' in a debate which touches on the foundations of the internal market, prompted by the recent amendment passed by the greek government has particular wishes, it will not fall over? we can start with this point so that we can act on its own, no matter where it is to syria's advantage. the war in former yugoslavia or countries stricken by natural disasters or to other victims. in fact it remains difficult,
16:45:59 <coppro> how do you add a corpus to fungot?
16:46:00 <fungot> coppro: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, i welcome the amendments tabled by the committee on women' s health as a result of the referendum in western sahara in the short and medium distances, the railway is declining, and that is my response on behalf of information policy of the commission.
16:46:41 <fungot> Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
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16:46:50 <vanila> fungot, pleased to meet you
16:46:51 <fungot> vanila: this crash. unfortunately it was manned. ignore him.
16:47:10 <fungot> oren: wtf, way to go ahead and prove it, i won't. it could be a cast member for snl.
16:47:11 <int-e> coppro: how can you care about such things when the railway is declining!
16:47:29 <vanila> fungot, epic roof jump
16:47:30 <fungot> vanila: avril lavigne? if it's been that way since about 11:45 pm. i don't care, i was going to become a cast member
16:47:30 <fizzie> It's not counting words.
16:47:30 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti.
16:47:50 <fizzie> It is, however, based on the parity of the sum of all input bytes, if I remember right.
16:49:08 <fungot> Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
16:49:15 <fungot> oren: the registrar may change the probability of selecting that option.
16:49:26 <fungot> oren: iv) its recordkeepor; and sane. the
16:49:48 <fungot> Selected style: ff7 (Full script of the game Final Fantasy VII)
16:49:57 <oren> awesome fungot
16:49:57 <fungot> oren: just once, long ago, about being in soldier? you don't think they'd stand up to the beach! there are 2 angles to choose, i'd be good at escaping...
16:50:12 <fungot> oren: that's why we decided to help! my strange and wonderful little place. it's a reunion of childhood pals!
16:50:20 <fungot> fizzie: i'm all right, that's not what i do feel a little cold.
16:50:52 <coppro> so apparently in 1996, the Ontario legislature shrank by about 30 members. The law that did this was called the Fewer Politicians Act.
16:51:31 <oren> We need an Even Fewer Politicians ACT
16:51:37 <int-e> good start, but I'm impressed that politicians would go for it
16:51:57 <MDude> There's a distinct lack lf "reply hazy, try again" here.
16:52:20 <int-e> but I guess the remaining polticians are now receiving more money because their responsibilities have grown so much
16:52:48 <int-e> ... I see a pattern there
16:53:04 <int-e> ^8ball perhaps it depends on the question?
16:53:14 <int-e> ^8ball perhaps it doesn't depend on the question?
16:53:20 <int-e> ^8ball perhaps it doesn't depend on the question?
16:53:50 <int-e> partity of length?
16:54:23 <fizzie> int-e: I just told what it depends on.
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16:58:03 <fizzie> I wouldn't know about Amazon.
16:58:11 <fizzie> I think it's quite tropical.
17:00:06 <int-e> We appear to have reached a fixed point.
17:00:31 <fizzie> Thanks to how ASCII is laid out, any change that only affects upper/lowercase (at least for a..z) will never affect the result.
17:01:28 <int-e> and . has an even ASCII code as well, 46 :)
17:02:57 <fizzie> Right. But , does. So you can do quite a lot w.r.t. whitespace and punctuation.
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17:09:04 <fizzie> There is actually something I'd like to say, and I think it's quite likely I might be allowed to say it, but I'm not 100% sure about that, and you never know about these things.
17:11:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[German]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41718&oldid=38607 * 151.188.17.247 * (+82) Undo revision 24609 by [[Special:Contributions/97.113.234.143|97.113.234.143]] ([[User talk:97.113.234.143|talk]])
17:14:31 <MDude> Yes I too beleive recent advancements in technology are suspiciously geared towards facilitating the dominance of bees.
17:14:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Malbolge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41719&oldid=38250 * 151.188.17.247 * (-6461) fuck you bitches
17:15:17 <MDude> And those who speak up against the hives are liable to get stung.
17:15:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Malbolge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41720&oldid=41719 * 151.188.17.247 * (+215784)
17:16:33 <MDude> Whatever you say, I'm fairly sure you'll come off at least as more sensible than 151.188.17.247.
17:19:43 <MDude> Looks like someone wants to fork Record Management Services.
17:21:19 <MDude> If you're the guy to revert stuff, I would think so.
17:21:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Malbolge]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41721&oldid=41720 * Ehird * (-209323) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/151.188.17.247|151.188.17.247]] ([[User talk:151.188.17.247|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:82.35.233.39|82.35.233.39]]
17:22:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[German]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41722&oldid=41718 * Ehird * (-82) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/151.188.17.247|151.188.17.247]] ([[User talk:151.188.17.247|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:78.10.83.44|78.10.83.44]]
17:22:38 <elliott> tbh I'm not sure I want to block them
17:22:43 <elliott> what hilarious edit will they come up with next
17:23:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Ehird * blocked [[User:78.10.83.44]] with an expiry time of 1 day (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): promoting to sysop for highly valuable contributions to the wiki; please leave a note on your talk page if you're not up to accepting this responsibility
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17:25:02 <int-e> elliott: I'm confused, is that the IP you meant to block?
17:25:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] unblock * Ehird * unblocked User:78.10.83.44: revoking sysop access; turns out you're not the valuable contributor in question
17:25:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Ehird * blocked [[User:151.188.17.247]] with an expiry time of 2 hours (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): promoting to sysop for highly valuable contributions to the wiki; please leave a note on your talk page if you're not up to accepting this responsibility
17:26:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Ehird * blocked [[User:Ehird]] with an expiry time of 10 minutes (autoblock disabled): useless admin
17:34:00 <ais523> anyone here who's not connecting from a university, is JSTOR generally open-access?
17:34:26 <ais523> it's hard to tell because the connection here has rights to pretty much all the major journals already paid up
17:34:39 <fizzie> I don't think it's "generally" that.
17:34:51 <fizzie> Although it's hard to tell from here either.
17:35:03 <Qfwfq> It depends, a lot of the older ('public domain') materials are now free, but require an account.
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17:35:44 <elliott> ais523: aaron swartz rather famously tried to make it so :/
17:35:59 <ais523> I'm trying to figure out if JSTOR links are useful to people generally, my guess is no
17:36:14 <ais523> also I didn't realise that that was the publisher he was mass-downloading from
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17:37:23 <int-e> "open access" is when authors pay a 4 digit figure for a journal article to be freely downloadable later.
17:37:25 <Qfwfq> ais523: I get reliable access through Tor exits, though I'm not sure if tor2web (another aaronsw project..) permits circuit selection. https://gist.github.com/fmap/7c22bb6f382777dbdf96
17:37:53 <ais523> there has to be a better way, really
17:38:04 <ais523> I've taken to preferentially citing sources that are freely available online
17:38:05 <fizzie> I think IEEE wanted $1750 to make my IEEE journal article free.
17:38:09 <int-e> oh there are some people trying.
17:38:12 <ais523> technical reports, PhD theses, and the like
17:38:32 <int-e> like lipics for computer science
17:38:48 <ais523> wow, JSTOR is pretty overbearing for a nonprofit
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17:39:07 <ais523> and it comes with /three/ sets of "this is copyright JSTOR stuff with terms and conditions" comments, in the citation
17:39:09 <HackEgo> Qfwfq: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
17:39:11 <int-e> But there's a lot of prejudices to overcome, and a lot of pseudo-objective statistics (impact factor) to actually get academics to publish there...
17:39:12 <elliott> (hi, I don't think I've seen you around before)
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17:39:37 <Qfwfq> elliott: Hi, yorick suggested I visit.
17:39:54 <elliott> wow, visitors from lurkers
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17:40:32 <fizzie> ais523: They have plans for "people enthusiastic about research (whether personal or professional), but who do not belong to a university, organization, or public library with access to JSTOR".
17:40:36 <Qfwfq> Well, if the conversations sufficiently high-calibre, that's usually motivation enough.
17:40:51 <fizzie> ais523: You just pay $19.50/month or $199/year for a "JPASS", you see.
17:41:02 <elliott> Qfwfq: well, yes, if only that property held of this channel... >_>
17:41:11 <int-e> fizzie: ACM wanted $1700 ($1300 for members)...
17:41:34 <fizzie> int-e: Maybe they've standardized prices.
17:41:35 <elliott> (although I guess someone with the username "fmap" will probably fit in here.)
17:42:33 <ais523> fizzie: hmm, sadly, those prices are a lot less ridiculous than I expected
17:42:59 <ais523> (I mean, it's sad that I expected them to be more)
17:43:21 <fizzie> ais523: The ridiculousness is in the restrictions. You can read an unlimited number of full-texts in the (1800+) journals included in the collection, but you can "save" only up to 10/month.
17:43:58 <int-e> lest you be tempted to free them
17:44:47 <fizzie> "Register for a MyJSTOR account to receive free, read-only access to as many as 3 articles at a time for a 2-week minimum."
17:44:53 <fizzie> Read-only, as opposed to read-write.
17:44:59 <ais523> oh right, that deal at the end
17:45:00 <int-e> oh, I've never heard of this. "Pianist André Tchaikowsky donated his skull to the Royal Shakespeare Company for use in theatrical productions, hoping that it would be used as the skull of Yorick."
17:45:09 <ais523> actually that's much much better than most journals are
17:45:19 <int-e> That's kind of cool, in a creepy way.
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17:45:42 <ais523> although IIRC it used to be 4 at a time, with the two-week waiting period before you can un-checkout a paper to read another
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17:45:59 <int-e> ais523: according to wikipedia, yes they do.
17:46:35 <elliott> donating my skull to the royal shakespeare company but not to be yorick or anything, just in case they need a cool-ass skull to give off some spooky fucking ambience
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17:47:26 <int-e> ais523: oh well, read for yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorick
17:48:10 <int-e> I guess Tchaikowsky would be disappointed.
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17:50:27 <ais523> anyway, I'm busy reading the proof that diophantine equations are TC
17:50:38 <ais523> because it came up tangentially in my thesis
17:52:22 <b_jonas> ais523: do you mean the proof comes up? or just the result as a black box?
17:52:50 <elliott> int-e: well: In 2008, Tchaikowsky's skull was used by David Tennant in an RSC production of Hamlet at the Courtyard Theatre, Stratford-upon-Avon.[8]
17:53:01 <ais523> b_jonas: result as a black box
17:53:02 <elliott> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Tennant_and_Tchaikowsky_as_Hamlet_and_Yorick.jpg this is a really good filename
17:53:11 <ais523> or rather, it's a result I had to dodge
17:53:53 <ais523> I basically have a bunch of inequalities which use +, ×, and less-than-or-equal (why is that not on my compose key)
17:53:56 <ais523> on nonnegative integers
17:54:02 <ais523> and need to prove that in general this is decidable
17:54:20 <ais523> obviously it isn't with no restrictions, and I was citing that result to show that it isn't with no restrictions
17:54:25 <ais523> but I have a bunch of restrictions I can benefit from
17:54:27 <b_jonas> um, on what domains of the variables and the constants?
17:54:36 <ais523> nonnegative integers, for both
17:55:03 <b_jonas> isn't there some other theorem about something like this too?
17:55:40 <ais523> also something I discovered in my recent citation chasing (PhD is due at the end of the month): one of the lambda calculi (think it was typed, but it might have been untyped), and Church numerals, were published in the same paper
17:55:54 <b_jonas> due at end of month? great
17:56:34 <fizzie> Mine was "due" at end of last year and I didn't actually do it; now I get nag emails every so often about finishing it.
17:56:45 <ais523> fizzie: oh, I've heard that terrible things happen if I'm even marginally late
17:56:48 <ais523> it probably varies by institution
17:57:31 <fizzie> I don't think anything terrible will happen if I finish mine during, say, the first half of 2015.
17:57:56 <fizzie> (I'll get back to it "real soon now", there's just been too much hassle about moving and stuff.)
17:58:08 <fizzie> (At least that's the excuse I gave to the last nag email.)
17:58:17 <b_jonas> fizzie: but doesn't the thesis like keep levelling up and become harder to get the more you wait?
17:59:18 <fizzie> b_jonas: Well, they told me that every week of not working on it makes it take X units of time more when I eventually do.
17:59:29 <fizzie> (Where X was something like two weeks or a month.)
18:00:03 <b_jonas> I think it has a level limit though after which it doesn't get any harder
18:00:22 <fizzie> Yes, I think that's very common in most MMORPGs.
18:00:25 <fizzie> Welp, going to the shop. ->
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18:02:35 <b_jonas> the level cap also means they're not turing complete
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18:06:57 <oren> what is a good cinnamon for abstract?
18:08:33 <oren> cinnamons for abstract.
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18:09:17 <oren> So yeah I'm gonna call my language "notional cinnamon"
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18:10:07 <oren> nocin for short
18:10:18 <elliott> oren there's this thing where to communicate with people you have to use a language both of you understand
18:10:38 <oren> cinnamon sounds like synonym
18:10:57 <elliott> yeah I figured that out after I decided that you were making answering your question sufficiently difficult that I didn't care to :P
18:12:23 <int-e> elliott: very eloquent use of stuff 'n things there, dude
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18:12:55 <oren> So anyway the language has no syntax or grammar, it takes a stream of abstract 'symbols' which are currently implemented as words but could be subsituted
18:13:44 <int-e> ("Words are failing me to express how eloquent I'm feeling today.")
18:14:32 <oren> the idea was to produce a "core" to which several syntaces could be converted
18:15:28 -!- int-e has set topic: Eloquent Cinnamon | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
18:17:06 <int-e> oren: Are those apple cores? Apples go well with cinnamon.
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18:21:13 <oren> So for example, the "english math" syntax i am working on could be seamlessly exchanged for a "chinese" syntax
18:21:41 <oren> the interpreter would not need to know
18:23:54 <oren> The maker of code that needs to interoperate would need to provide symbol bindings for the new syntax though
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18:25:31 <oren> The fallback symbol bindings are just numbers
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18:38:21 <ais523> oren: that sort of syntactic translation was something cyclexa was meant to do
18:38:31 <ais523> but I decided cyclexa was probably beyond my abilities when I tried and failed to write a parser
18:39:48 <ais523> more recently, I realised that cyclexa has worrying similarities to Ursala's expression syntax
18:39:59 <ais523> they both aimed at the same goal, and achieved it in much the same way
18:40:09 <ais523> and the result is an unreadable mess, as is usual for esolangs
18:40:32 <oren> Currently i am only working on the backend
18:41:06 <oren> Each frontend can have arbitrary code which provides the symbol stream
18:42:52 <oren> The default syntax (a series of words which are codes for symbols) would be pretty unreadable
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18:46:32 <SuperJedi224> !ztest test >++[-.]<(>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<--<++)*4<--(>(+)*17>(-)*17)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1
18:46:32 <zemhill_> SuperJedi224.test: points -0.98, score 20.22, rank 19/47
18:46:59 <SuperJedi224> !zjoust Hyper >++[-.]<(>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<--<++)*4<--(>(+)*17>(-)*17)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1
18:47:00 <zemhill_> SuperJedi224.Hyper: points -0.98, score 20.22, rank 19/47
18:47:33 <elliott> fizzie: is zemhill still broken?
18:48:09 <oren> array make set A number one push A set 1
18:48:38 <oren> whoops. set one
18:48:55 <SuperJedi224> It seems to have a limit of 47 programs on the list at a time though.
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19:20:11 <oren> is 2^256 large enough for the maximum number of variable names
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19:21:38 <oren> hmm, could be better
19:22:32 <oren> how long are variable names allowed to be in C
19:23:57 <oren> hmm... or should i just do bignums and to hell with it
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19:26:39 <fizzie> elliott: I upgraded the things. You know, those things.
19:26:47 <fizzie> elliott: So it's possible it has gotten fixed.
19:26:54 <fizzie> elliott: On the other hand, it's also possible it's not.
19:27:47 <oren> Is there a test sweet for zemhill?
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19:50:50 <int-e> b_jonas: *sigh* heavenly nostrils started out great but now it's full of reruns, sigh.
19:51:30 <b_jonas> int-e: I dunno, I think either it didn't really start out great, or I just can't help thinking of Ozy and Millie with nostalgia
19:51:37 <b_jonas> and see only the recycled jokes in Heavenly Nostrils
19:51:44 <b_jonas> also, did it really get renamed?
19:52:06 <int-e> Yes, apparently. I'd never heard of it before you brought it up.
19:52:27 <int-e> And I didn't think of Ozy and Millie, but of Calvin and Hobbes. Of course that's not coincidence...
19:52:29 <b_jonas> let's go back and read http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/comic/millie/
19:53:04 <b_jonas> Ozy and Millie is the obvious comparision because it's by the same author (Dana) and of similar style
19:54:01 <int-e> Ah, I didn't make the connection.
19:54:34 <int-e> Nevertheless, Bill Watterson has been a great influence on Dana.
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19:54:54 <b_jonas> there's at least one explicit reference
19:55:20 <b_jonas> http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/comic/millie/comic?n=20000713
19:56:10 <ais523> I'm looking for the original papers defining system F (two authors found it independently)
19:56:26 <ais523> one of them is /probably/ Jean-Yves Girard's thesis, but all the online copies seem to be corrupted
19:56:39 <ais523> too short and end "foo..bar" as a nonsequitur, I suspect there are problems earlier too
19:56:56 <ais523> also I find it hard to follow because my French isn't all that perfect
19:57:28 <int-e> b_jonas: http://i.imgur.com/PhP80yD.gif is the most blatant one in Heavenly Nostrils.
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22:36:20 <oren> Um, what? 17:26 . . Ehird (Talk | contribs) blocked Ehird (Talk | contribs) with an expiry time of 10 minutes (autoblock disabled) (useless admin)
22:36:37 <elliott> I'm a useless sysop who blocks the wrong people and I deserve punishment
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22:47:51 <int-e> mistakes were made and mended. nobody got hurt. much.
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22:58:11 <oren> so I have spent an hour listening to Julius Fucik. I forget why.
22:59:01 <oren> Whoops, that should be Fučík
22:59:30 <boily> helloren. helliott.
22:59:51 <elliott> is helliott anything like a hellion
22:59:55 <oren> He wrote the famous circus music "entry of the gladiators"
23:00:22 <int-e> welcome to helloily, behold the devoily?
23:01:18 <boily> elliott: do you consider yourself to be a Hell Creature? do you thrive in flames?
23:01:35 <elliott> boily: tbh I'm more of an... uh
23:01:38 <fizzie> I didn't even know about Heavenly Nostrils, but wasn't there already a third comic before that which repeated Ozy & Millie jokes?
23:01:43 <elliott> fuck I forget crawl demons. let's say neqoxec
23:01:57 <elliott> I think there's another one of the 3s I like the name of though
23:02:04 <elliott> maybe it isn't a 3 any more. I think they changed them around again
23:02:08 <boily> it's spelled like that. I tend to avoid neqoxec unless I can strike them before they do.
23:02:24 <elliott> what're the 1s called. what did fiend become again. god, I've forgotten so much
23:02:26 <boily> I haven't played dcss in quite some time. I got sidetracked by some cubes. and more cubes.
23:02:35 <elliott> I didn't even play until after they renamed fiend but all I can remember is fiend
23:02:40 <elliott> I know there's hell sentinels but what's the fiery 1
23:02:52 <boily> they renamed the fiends? blasphemy!
23:02:52 <elliott> brimstone fiend. that's it
23:02:58 <elliott> no see brimstone fiend used to just be
23:03:07 <elliott> and also, the numbers demons were on used to make no sense whatsoever
23:03:07 <boily> oh fungot do I hate the fiends.
23:03:07 <fungot> boily: that's why i have to cross when the stars can hear us? did you see his 48 years would only be given to me all the dresses.
23:03:18 <elliott> 2s are... reapers, tormentors, hellions, what else
23:03:26 <boily> oh, you're talking about even older dcss than I remember.
23:03:34 <boily> eh... hell beasts are 2s also, I think.
23:03:46 <boily> ah, the loroes. background noise.
23:03:59 <boily> big death yaks from hell, but nothing to worry about.
23:04:43 <elliott> 4s I don't know. there's like red demon and orange demon and other crap nobody cares about
23:04:58 <elliott> 5s is uh. ufetubi, imps, ?? other things ??
23:05:05 <elliott> that one really useless one that does nothing. or maybe that's just ufetubi
23:05:14 <elliott> hi this is a channel about dungeon crawl stone soup now
23:05:51 <boily> well, 5s are annoying when they're spawned by ynoxinules.
23:06:07 <elliott> ynoxinuls have the loveliest name <3 those are a 3, right
23:06:08 <boily> (or is it ynoxinuls? demonic plurals are hard.)
23:06:24 <elliott> crawl has some really good names
23:06:32 <boily> I like the sixfirhys. they're unusual.
23:06:40 <elliott> kikubaaqudgha, ereshkigal, oh yes sixfirhys
23:06:42 <boily> (or sixfirhies. damned plurals.)
23:07:21 <elliott> 23:07:18 <Sequell> sixfirhy[5/5]: Occurs halfway between 6:00 and 7:00
23:07:23 <boily> the fun of planning a raid against a unique &...
23:07:40 * boily facepalms. aaaaaaaaaurgh.
23:07:49 <elliott> ok ereshkigal isn't a name from crawl but whatever
23:07:53 <boily> the vile puns in dcss's lore...
23:07:54 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:07:59 <elliott> that's not lore, that's just learndb :p
23:08:07 <boily> wasn't it inspired from some babylonian divinity?
23:08:10 <elliott> have you ever played crawl 4.1.2a
23:08:14 <elliott> you should try it sometime
23:08:19 <boily> lore, learndb, HackEgo... 'tis all the same.
23:08:32 <boily> like, the Original pre-dcss version?
23:08:58 <elliott> it's a never-finished alpha version of dcss after linley gave up on it but before dcss happened
23:09:14 <elliott> it's incredibly unbalanced and unplayable and has only been won once in the decade-ish it's existed
23:09:21 <elliott> it is also my favourite version of carwl.
23:10:17 <elliott> can't believe I missed that
23:11:19 <boily> I may be the only guy left who misses the Hive branch.
23:12:17 <boily> welcome... to 4.1... you can do anything... on 4.1...
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23:16:19 <elliott> well I'm glad we could have this talk
23:18:40 <elliott> please feel free to continue saying things about popular roguelike game dungeon crawl stone soup
23:21:26 <boily> I still remember my login infos. time to Gloriously Die in a Creative Manner!
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23:21:56 <boily> (huh. I had a game, and I'm in Zot:4...)
23:22:09 <boily> oh well. BANZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAI!
23:22:43 <elliott> can you make your terminal 80x24 so I don't have to buy a new monitor
23:23:03 <elliott> it's literally taller than my screen
23:23:23 <elliott> nice vorpal war axe in zot, btw
23:23:57 <elliott> boily can you ^F axe for me
23:24:02 <elliott> there has to be a better axe just lying around in the dungeon somewhere
23:25:28 <boily> there, that should do the trick.
23:25:44 <elliott> it's exactly the same actually :p
23:26:02 <elliott> seriously though you need to get a new axe
23:26:05 <elliott> how much axes skill do you have
23:26:36 <elliott> boily can you ^F executioner's axe, and then failing that ^F battleaxe
23:26:45 <elliott> and pick up literally any one of them and it will be so much better than the weapon you're currently using
23:27:19 <elliott> go get that draining one blessed at a TSO altar
23:27:26 <int-e> elliott: what's it, a feather duster?
23:27:26 <elliott> your weapon is so, so bad :(
23:27:50 <elliott> also just never use shields and axes :p
23:27:50 <boily> (meanwhile, oooooh...)
23:27:54 <int-e> (ftr, I know nothing about the game)
23:28:20 <elliott> executioner's might be better but eh this has a nice brand and you're not going to bother fetching the executioner's one anyway
23:28:39 <int-e> elliott: could've fooled me
23:28:39 <boily> elliott: besides, I can't really executioner that one, it has draining.
23:28:53 <elliott> like I said I'm pretty sure you can override that by blessing it at a TSO altar
23:29:00 <elliott> and then you get a holy's executioner axe and kick yourself for not doing extended
23:29:08 <elliott> unless you've uh, already done extended with a war axe
23:29:22 <boily> nah, I haven't extended yet.
23:29:35 <boily> and yes, I could TSO the fungot out of that axe.
23:29:35 <fungot> boily: there's no need for you! tell me? oh, you're late!
23:29:42 <boily> fungot: yes, there is a need!
23:29:42 <fungot> boily: cloud!! sure is cold.
23:29:48 <elliott> oh are you doing zot before extended
23:29:53 <elliott> or else why are you with TSO I guess
23:30:12 <elliott> this is probably annoying. do people want me to take this to another channel
23:30:50 <int-e> Ah, I knew "TSO" looked familiar, it's a Thread State Object.
23:31:21 <boily> I think I had plans a long time ago. probably going to wrap up that game and start something else. DD is interesting, but I want to go for the new classes and races and gods and everything.
23:31:43 <elliott> please promise me you'll never use a war axe in zot ever again
23:32:38 <elliott> given that this is the orb chamber you might wanna heal
23:32:52 <boily> I so can use a war axe in zot! common sense be damned!
23:33:13 <elliott> (you should recharge your healing wand)
23:33:42 <elliott> I'm so glad "p"eople happened
23:33:52 <elliott> I think that might have been my idea
23:34:59 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7* fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
23:36:06 <elliott> do you hit 5 all the time when playing DD to rest off the HP you can't
23:36:12 <boily> what about that fine and dandy axe stays in my own hands...
23:36:14 <elliott> actually I just don't play DD. or crawl
23:36:42 <elliott> are you going to teleport out of the orb chamber for fun and profit
23:37:44 <boily> of course I'm going to teleport like a madman.
23:38:04 <elliott> tbh at this rate you're going to attract every monster on the level before you get the orb
23:38:24 <elliott> doing something other than what you're doing
23:38:27 <elliott> orb guardians are faster than you
23:38:52 <boily> death happens. time to roll something!
23:39:04 <elliott> I admire your spirit but not your play
23:39:15 <boily> sorry for not surviving. I couldn't remember my whole character at once.
23:39:22 <boily> playing is made to be played.
23:40:18 <elliott> go chei and find a conj book please
23:40:40 <int-e> wait, did or did not boily die?
23:40:48 <elliott> boily died and then started a new game
23:40:55 <elliott> it was a very silly, avoidable death :P
23:41:04 <boily> my second win was through chei.
23:41:12 <int-e> we hate the unavoidable kind, it lacks hilarity
23:41:13 <boily> elliott: I know. the appeal of something else was strong.
23:41:14 <elliott> yes I noticed you played a mifi of chei
23:42:07 <elliott> int-e: you play nethack or something, right?
23:42:59 <int-e> elliott: tried, died, gave up
23:43:28 <elliott> I had you mentally filed as roguelike player for some reason
23:43:44 <int-e> But I found the wiki, so I know what "TSO" stands for now.
23:43:57 <boily> elliott: wait. did you just tell me to play a cecj? of chei???
23:44:03 <int-e> I know a bit about RPGs and dungeon crawls by osmosis.
23:44:25 <elliott> https://loom.shalott.org/learndb.html#tso <- more useful than the wiki
23:44:32 <boily> call me unaquainted with the game and some random neophyte, but isn't it really, really bad?
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23:45:08 <elliott> well centaur isn't the worst chei race by far
23:45:12 <elliott> like, it's a lot better than mifi of chei...
23:45:15 <elliott> I don't remember centaur magic apts though
23:45:26 <elliott> probably cecj of chei is just painful at first and then good and painful
23:45:29 <boily> mifi of chei is just plain ridiculous in the endgame.
23:45:39 <elliott> so is mifi of anything else but it isn't slow
23:45:44 <elliott> did they fix centaur hunger yet >_>
23:46:04 <elliott> you can play cene of xom that's a classic
23:46:18 <elliott> please don't play naga of chei ;_;
23:46:32 <boily> no, probably going vehumet or sif.
23:47:19 <elliott> nice D:1 boring beetle...?
23:47:39 <elliott> you can just avoid it, but... what abad monster placement
23:48:14 <boily> what the fungot is a boring beetle doing on D:1...
23:48:14 <fungot> boily: but, something strange just crashed into our truck!
23:48:14 <boily> (and why can't I z-a-f...)
23:48:26 <elliott> uh maybe you ran out of MP or something
23:48:39 <elliott> don't stand next to a boring beetle on D:1.
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23:49:00 * Sgeo bought Google Cardboard
23:49:00 <boily> I did. I was curious.
23:50:01 <elliott> maybe I should play crawl again
23:50:34 <boily> I should probably eat...
23:53:05 <int-e> Sgeo: a people origami project? "Join the fold"...
23:53:26 <int-e> (I did ... err ... google for it. So I'm joking.)
23:53:34 <boily> yup. time to satiate the thing shaped like me.
23:53:44 <elliott> how many things shaped like you are there
23:53:56 <int-e> boily: there's a voodoo doll shaped like you and it has to be fed?
23:54:32 <int-e> elliott: mirrors are mean duplicators
23:55:18 <int-e> (oh that reminds me: why do mirrors swap left and right but not up and down?)
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23:55:47 <elliott> int-e: actual question, or?
23:56:03 <int-e> elliott: it's a puzzle. not a hard one.
23:56:04 * Sgeo wonders if buying a Note 4 just for the VR experience would be worth it
23:56:10 <Sgeo> I do want a new phone sometime soon
23:56:31 <boily> int-e: that'd be useful to have a nice voodoo doll. I could scratch myself in all the nice parts without dislocating my shoulders.
23:57:02 <int-e> "all the nice part"
23:58:28 <boily> I didn't say, mean, or imply nothing, you pervert.
23:58:47 <elliott> what happened to eating :p
23:59:22 <int-e> boily: you could've said "hard to reach" and things would've been just fine...
23:59:54 <int-e> (there has to be a treasure down here somewhere!)