00:04:26 <oren> mirrors DONT swap left and right. they only swap forward and back
00:06:57 * boily doesn't trust oren's Arcane Optical Tricks. “mirrors swap left and right, I swear!”
00:07:44 <int-e> oren: ok, but then why do people think that they swap left and right?
00:08:41 <oren> because humans are bilaterally symmetrical.
00:09:15 <int-e> that does enter the picture
00:09:32 <oren> no wait, because they expect them to rotate
00:09:56 <int-e> but mostly it's that if we encounter a human we tend to see things from their perspective. So the hand to the right becomes their left hand.
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00:37:47 <oerjan> yay, i finally managed to restart my touchpad driver from a broken state without rebooting the whole computer!
00:38:15 <oerjan> (by the simple method of killing the process, no less)
00:39:03 <oerjan> my previous attempts foolishly tried to _run_ the program instead.
00:44:44 <oren> oerjan: I use pkill or taskmgr to solve any problem I have with any computer
00:44:52 <Taneb> Today I played video games from the 90's on a projector
00:45:46 <oerjan> oren: well this was with taskmgr so it worked out all right
00:47:09 <oren> task manager exists on Xubuntu too... I just realized this
00:51:00 <oren> although unlike windows, the windowing system for ubuntu often fails when applications go haywire
00:52:42 <elliott> boily: how about spgl of veh
00:52:46 <boily> it's very fun when your cursor just plain disappears.
00:52:52 <elliott> (rolls the heel) vsak of kiku
00:52:57 <boily> spgl... I haven't played sp in a looooong time...
00:53:08 <boily> kiku was kinda nerfed iirc hth.
00:53:43 <elliott> do you mean the books change
00:53:45 <boily> but right now I'm hitting cubes, placing cubes, walking on cubes, arranging cubes...
00:53:51 <boily> no, the corpse cap.
00:53:52 <elliott> I mean kiku is still incredibly good
00:54:02 <boily> before I just spammed that ability to no end!
00:54:21 <elliott> see this channel used to be entirely about crawl, and then a while before that it was entirely about minecraft
00:54:29 <elliott> so I'm getting some good nostalgia in her
00:55:22 <boily> #esoteric is a good chännel.
00:55:31 * oerjan must have missed most of the crawl
00:55:35 <elliott> it actually sucks, but yes
00:55:47 <oerjan> you forgot dwarf fortress, however.
00:55:51 <elliott> oerjan: tbh it wasn't that long, compared to the minecraft. it was when I got into crawl
00:56:27 <elliott> boily: is minecraft still ruined by trying to be an rpg for no reason >_>
00:56:52 <oren> I play dwarfortress
00:57:57 <Jafet> Do you roleplay a miner
00:58:13 <oren> I play it extremely badly
00:58:24 <boily> elliott: no, not really.
00:58:39 * boily builds stuff. it is artistically unique.
00:58:55 <elliott> do you use creative mode... that's a level of personal purity I could never attain
00:58:58 <oren> currently my dwarves are covered in blood and trying to drag bodies across a lake
01:02:19 <Jafet> If minecraft was based on cubic graphs, could you get miners on minors
01:02:53 <boily> elliott: no, survival.
01:03:41 <elliott> my favourite is, like, survival in peaceful with no hunger tbh
01:03:59 <elliott> also preferably without health, and where you can duplicate any item as much as you want, like back in the good old multiplayer days
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01:04:13 <Taneb> elliott, that was how I learnt to play
01:04:17 <elliott> and also minecart boosters should work, *shakes fist*
01:04:38 <boily> POWERED RAILS MASTERRACE!
01:04:44 <Taneb> Man, those things were ridiculous
01:04:57 * boily mumbles against stupid boosters that didn't work half of the time. *grmbl*
01:05:11 <elliott> let's not make literal nazi ideology jokes, imo
01:05:21 <Jafet> If a dwarf fortress military is based on pickaxe warfare, would its leader be Major Miner
01:05:45 <boily> elliott: sorry. can I still mapole Jafet?
01:06:02 * boily joyfully thwacks Jafet again
01:06:03 <elliott> powered rails are so slow :(
01:06:28 <boily> they work quite nice. guaranteed 8 m/s when placed at each 32 blocks.
01:06:45 <boily> (optimal placement is 34, but 34 is not a nice round whole number.)
01:06:50 <elliott> one block is a metre, right
01:07:36 <Taneb> Speaking of METAR, it's warmer than it was this morning
01:07:50 <lambdabot> EGCC 240050Z 28009KT 9999 FEW024 SCT038 04/02 Q1017 NOSIG
01:08:21 <Taneb> It looks like it warmed up consistently from about 8am to 11pm today here
01:08:36 <Taneb> Who on earth's in Manchester
01:09:06 <elliott> what was the gcc fork called
01:09:26 <boily> Taneb: I tried to quickly find some airport near York.
01:09:32 <lambdabot> CYUL 240100Z 22015G21KT 15SM -SHSN FEW030 OVC070 M02/M06 A2987 RMK SC1AC7 SLP117
01:09:42 <Taneb> boily, Leeds-Bradford is the closest
01:09:56 <Taneb> I use weather.elec.york.ac.uk, because it's about a mile from my house
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01:11:15 <lambdabot> CYYZ 240100Z 23010G15KT 12SM SKC M04/M06 A2989 RMK SLP129
01:11:47 <boily> oren: are sidewalks in Toronto as bad as they are here?
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01:12:48 <oren> boily: they have to be replaced every decade about
01:15:16 <boily> oren: sounds about the same.
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01:19:10 <oerjan> <oren> no wait, because they expect them to rotate <-- http://xkcd.com/123/
01:23:41 <boily> you know you're an xkcd addict when you don't even have to click the links...
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01:30:46 <oerjan> boily: i'd say that depends, did you guess it from the oren quote or from the comic number twh
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01:32:26 <oerjan> then you're only semi-addicted hth
01:33:04 <CrazyM4n> I knew that one from the comic number, but it's the only one I know because it's 123
01:33:09 <int-e> http://xkcd.com/386/ is the only one I recognize by number, I think. I link to that one a bit more frequently than I should.
01:33:24 <CrazyM4n> And you kinda made me realize that I'm quite an xkcd addict too D:
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02:00:36 <zzo38> I tried to use nc -e with a outgoing connection to execute Cygwin's cat -v and while it worked, then typing exit didn't close the window (although I could still close it with the control box).
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02:03:40 <zzo38> I see that "simonpj has suggested simply making _every_ type Typeable" and "someone suggested not requiring Typeable constraints
02:03:57 <zzo38> I suggest that Typeable constraints should be required, although every type should also automatically be made Typeable.
02:04:26 <oerjan> i think dropping Typeable constraints will harm parametricity
02:04:54 <zzo38> Yes, I do not want to drop Typeable constraints
02:05:23 <oerjan> especially since unlike Coercible and the old Eval(?) class for seq, you need actual runtime date.
02:05:37 <zzo38> But I want to drop deriving(Typeable) so that it automatically does that instead
02:05:59 <Sgeo> So type erasure will die?
02:06:15 <oerjan> Sgeo: it would if you dropped the constraints too
02:06:29 <zzo38> What does type erasure mean?
02:06:51 <oerjan> zzo38: that you don't need to pass type information unless you actually need it
02:07:31 <oerjan> especially important for polymorphic values where there might not _be_ any type information attached to the value itself.
02:07:36 <zzo38> Yes you still don't need to pass type information if you don't have a Typeable constraint.
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02:08:17 <zzo38> So a class or function or whatever that requires Typeable should still be require to mention such thing
02:10:26 <zzo38> My suggestion is only to make it so that all Typeable instances of all types are automatically defined (so you don't need to write deriving(Typeable) in order to define it), although this fact is supposed to be unprovable within the type system therefore you can't use the Typeable instance in a polymorphic function if you don't explicitly request it.
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02:21:10 <Sgeo> "CAREFUL: Don't use Vireio Perception with multplayer games with anti-cheat measures as the software could get recognized as a hack and either kick you or ban you.
02:21:19 <Sgeo> I assume that Second Life does not have anti-cheat features
02:23:47 <zzo38> Isn't source-codes for Second Life available? If so then you can see if it has any anti-cheat features or not
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02:34:28 <oerjan> zzo38: it might be like with reddit, where the anti-cheat features are the one part of the code which is not open sourced
02:35:53 <zzo38> Presumably the code would still have to link to it though?
02:56:50 <oerjan> there could be a general api for running extra services, though
02:56:54 <Sgeo> So, if the relationship between my dad and my step-mother is so dysfunctional that my dad lies to my step-mother constantly (admittedly usually to protect me from her insanity) and expects me to play along with everything, and I end up not just being quiet like an asshole when she talks to me, is it reasonable that he would get mad at me?
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02:58:19 <Jafet> Does your step-mother have anti-cheat features
02:58:37 <oerjan> i think the word "reasonable" has already run away screaming long before you reached that point. try "probable" instead.
03:02:25 <oerjan> or you could try running away screaming, maybe you'll catch up with reason that way.
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04:14:01 <Sgeo> I found a new virtual world
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05:05:34 <zzo38> Some idea of Magic: the Gathering cards to make up: [1] A card with protection from permanents. [2] A card with protection from legendary. [3] A card with an overload cost less than its normal mana cost. [4] Auras with evoke. [5] Noncreatures with dash. [6] Planeswalkers with additional card types. [7] Noncreatures with offering and/or champion. [8] Offering with noncreature subtypes.
05:07:26 <shachaf> zzo38: What would an interesting use of [3] be?
05:23:20 <zzo38> I am not completely sure!
05:23:59 <MDude> SGeo: New virtual world sounds neat
05:24:14 <shachaf> Perhaps: Return target creature you control to your hand.
05:24:20 <Sgeo> babylon.vrsites.com
05:24:21 <shachaf> But that's not particularly great.
05:24:26 <Sgeo> http://janusvr.com/
05:25:09 <Sgeo> It parses HTML-like pages accessible via HTTP for special tags defining the virtual room
05:25:30 <Sgeo> So, anyone can host a 3d room, and I think also the 3d chat somehow, although apparently everyone currently uses one particular host for that
05:25:46 <Sgeo> It also has hardcoded page to room transformations for a few sites like Reddit and Imgur
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05:32:27 <MDude> I like that, but don't like that it's apparently a closed thing.
05:33:04 <MDude> Since I figure browsers should be run on open standards, and if it's making rooms out of web pages then it's certainly a browser.
05:33:21 <Sgeo> Hmm, where does it say it's closed?
05:33:25 <MDude> Anyway, I'm messing with Flatland Rover and being asked to reset the comptuer.
05:34:23 <Sgeo> Isn't that ancient?
05:34:39 <Sgeo> I think it was Flatland sharing the name with the book Flatland that got me into virtual worlds
05:35:09 <Sgeo> https://www.reddit.com/r/janusVR/comments/28se0z/janus_vr_consolidated_suggestions_list/
05:35:12 <MDude> That's why it's being such a pain.
05:35:12 <MDude> http://www.flatland.com/blog
05:35:25 <Sgeo> One of the suggestions on there is to open source it. That suggestion comes from the creator
05:35:30 <Sgeo> So it will probably be open sourced
05:36:33 <MDude> I don't even mind if it's closed source as a program.
05:36:53 <MDude> Just that it follows an open set of protocols that other browsers can try to be compatible with.
05:37:18 <Sgeo> Best explanation I've seen
05:37:18 <Sgeo> https://www.reddit.com/r/janusVR/wiki/index
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06:01:41 <zzo38> Is there IRC bot program in C?
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06:32:15 <oren> apparently an underground cavern is a good place to dump a neverending flow of water
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06:55:00 <oerjan> what, an ordinary cavern?
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09:21:19 <fizzie> zzo38: The venerable Eggdrop is written in C, if I recall correctly.
09:22:23 <fizzie> I used to run an Eggdrop, I think that was about 15 years ago.
09:23:55 <fizzie> (There is a Tcl scripting interface, so many of the available extra things it can do are written in that. But there's also a C module interface.)
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09:58:52 <loudspeaker> I'm so math right now I want to calculate the acceleration of electrons in an electric field.
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10:03:29 <loudspeaker> (I figured I should learn more math so I ordered some books mathoverflow recommended)
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11:08:56 <Lilax> I passed finals, Now to program things
11:09:18 * oerjan finally sees the ingressive yes youtube video everyone else must have been watching
11:10:03 <oerjan> that's definitely not a thing i've heard of before
11:10:16 <oerjan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URgdIAz4QNg
11:11:06 <oerjan> the version i've heard before definitely is a "ja", just on inward breath
11:11:48 <Lilax> I guess it sounds different
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12:02:44 <Vorpal> <oerjan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URgdIAz4QNg <-- you never heard of this before?
12:03:39 <Vorpal> It is basically a "jo" while inhaling instead of exhaling.
12:05:08 <Vorpal> Lilax, who do I have the pleasure of speaking to?
12:05:29 <Vorpal> I do not recognize that nick name
12:05:52 <Vorpal> (But you apparently recognize me?)
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12:12:17 <Lilax> Oh man so many net splits today
12:12:33 <Lilax> Net splits sound painful
12:13:20 <elliott> if your net split all the fish would fall out of it.
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12:33:59 <FR34K> So what's this channels bout
12:34:19 <HackEgo> FR34K: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
12:34:26 <FR34K> Esoteric stuff.... Like mystery schools of the past
12:34:59 <myname> imho it's mainly about computer science
12:36:20 <FR34K> I cart rainbows so I'm in
12:38:53 <FR34K> Well have good one ya all
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12:39:30 <elliott> carting rainbows from city to city
12:52:36 <elliott> https://github.com/r0nk/corvus brainfuck genetic programming
12:53:27 <myname> i thought of something like that, too
12:53:39 <myname> maybe other kinds of genetc
12:53:49 <Lilax> that looks amazing
13:25:41 <elliott> it's a shame nobody has ever managed to do an evolver for BF Joust that actually made useful warriors
13:25:46 <elliott> I'd really like to see that
13:25:59 <elliott> um, unless Lymia ended up with something that worked
13:26:23 <Lymia> It worked on a less mature hill
13:30:30 <Lymia> I probably need a larger testing hill, and more evolvable programs
13:40:56 <EgoBot> Score for Lymia_hi: 0.0
13:41:09 <elliott> http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ here
13:41:15 <zemhill_> Lymia.hi: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47
13:41:21 <elliott> the zem.fi one might still have broken scoring though... or maybe not.
13:41:21 <Lymia> It has its own command
13:41:26 <elliott> but it's the one people have been using.
13:41:37 <elliott> it has that fancy matrixy scoring system
13:41:44 <elliott> http://zem.fi/bfjoust/internals/
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13:42:45 <Lymia> Get the program to generate a program to beat all programs ona hill up
13:42:52 <Lymia> I know how it would work
13:42:59 <Lymia> I need to implement bfjoust to make it happen
13:43:01 <elliott> you do? I thought we proved that's impossible
13:43:13 <Lymia> You did, for carefully constructed hills
13:43:20 <Lymia> This is not a carefully constructed hill
13:43:30 <elliott> oh, okay, so it's just an as-good-as-possible thing rather than theoretically perfect
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13:46:15 <elliott> what's your basic strategy? :o
13:46:43 <Lymia> Simulate every bot on the hill at once
13:46:54 <Lymia> On all possible tape lengths and polarities
13:47:26 <Lymia> So, (Tape Position, [(Enemy Bot State, Tape State)])
13:47:51 <Lymia> Then, do some brute force/hirsutics to construct branches at the right places to distinguish as many of the bots as possible.
13:47:57 <Lymia> From there, it's brute force a solution.
13:49:17 <elliott> hirsutics: heuristics for detecting hirsutism
13:49:28 <elliott> Lymia: do you just run them as if there's no enemy bot?
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13:49:52 <elliott> like, usually you'd simulate two bots at once on a tape
13:50:01 <elliott> do you just do the simulation by pretending the other program is empty?
13:50:04 <elliott> or am I not understanding at all
13:50:32 <Lymia> It builds the program for the output "hill beater" bot as it goes-- there is no program for that yet.
13:50:54 <Lymia> It has an array of tape states and enemy bot states-- splitting every bot into a seperate one for every tape length and polarity.
13:51:12 <Lymia> Then, it selects a move, and applies that move to all of those tape states, and lets the enemy bot run.
13:51:35 <Lymia> Branches, ofc, would be generating an [a]b then recursing
13:51:39 <elliott> this sounds like you are going to need a lot of RAM :P
13:51:41 <Lymia> Which would be used to distinguish bots.
13:52:43 <elliott> if you need a machine to run it on and don't have a decent one I have an i7 with 16 gigabytes that spends most of its cycles doing whatever chrome thinks it should hog all the CPU by doing :p
13:52:55 <Lymia> I doubt it'd be that expensive
13:53:22 <elliott> clearly you should run it on a GPU. or an FPGA. GPUs and FPGAs are the solution to literally everything. *especially* inherently serial, memory-hard problems.
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13:54:34 <elliott> inherently cereal problems.
13:54:47 <elliott> yeah okay I'm useless right now
13:54:49 <Lymia> I don't want to abuse my poor CPU
13:55:15 <elliott> it would be cool if you could somehow do this kinda simulation without keeping a copy of every single tape
13:55:29 <elliott> like some way to "collapse" it down into something that only captures the variations, somehow
13:55:30 <Lymia> It's not a big deal, anyway
13:55:49 <elliott> but what if you want to run it on a hill with ten trillion programs
13:56:00 <elliott> you need VC money to buy a supercomputer to do this >_>
13:56:11 <Lymia> About 1 MB for tape
13:56:46 <Lymia> The hill, and ~900 programs not on the hill so it can detect when it's fighting something it doesn't know and switch to a generalist program
13:57:47 <Lilax> Why is it still in here?
13:59:00 <elliott> the bfjoust hill on it was just broken for a while, I think
13:59:07 <Lilax> mmm when a znc ddos's you by accident
13:59:12 <elliott> maybe it's working again now but everyone already moved to zemhill_ because it's nicer (modulo possible scoring brokenness that might have gone away by now?)
13:59:41 <Lilax> Or the egobots prefix is invalid and it actually works but doesn't respond
13:59:54 <EgoBot> Score for elliott_q: 0.0
14:00:18 <Lilax> But not as fast as it was
14:02:35 <Lymia> elliott, possible broken scoring
14:02:43 <Lymia> Only when something gets 100% wins, right?
14:02:55 <elliott> Lymia: there was some very weird problem with the scoring that involved a bug in one of the libraries fizzie was using or something
14:03:00 <elliott> and now he's updated it so maybe it'll be gone?
14:03:03 <elliott> I forget what it was, honestly
14:03:10 <elliott> but if you notice the scoring doing something really weird it might be that.
14:04:28 <Lymia> <elliott> clearly you should run it on a GPU. or an FPGA. GPUs and FPGAs are the solution to literally everything. *especially* inherently serial, memory-hard problems.
14:04:31 <Lymia> The really memory hard thing
14:04:38 <Lymia> Is that everything has to be immutable
14:04:44 <Lymia> So I can backtrace and lookahead
14:05:02 <elliott> you could do it in haskell and construct an infinite tree of possible actions or whatever
14:05:37 <Lymia> I'd be using heavy hirsutics at all points
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14:05:47 <Lymia> (and I need a name)
14:05:58 <Lymia> (Lymia~omniscience? :D)
14:08:30 <Lymia> How about we not talk about my spelling. :o
14:09:13 <Lymia> If I intentinoally lose one match
14:09:19 <Lymia> I can avoid making Markov scoring do 100:0, right?
14:09:28 <Lymia> And stop the rest of the hill from getting stomped by randoms
14:10:05 <elliott> I don't think 100% is a problem with the Markov scoring?
14:10:15 <elliott> I think it smooths out all the weirdness
14:10:27 <Lymia> intentional_loss (.)*58442-
14:10:36 <Lymia> intentional_loss (.)*58442(<)*10-
14:10:46 <Lymia> intentional_loss (.)*58442(>)*10-
14:10:50 <Lymia> My brain stopped breaking
14:11:18 <elliott> (wouldn't the simplest intentional loss just be <?)
14:11:30 <Lymia> It's an intentional loss for the "beat hill" program
14:11:39 <Lymia> Which would be set to die to that program exactly on one tape length and polarity
14:12:02 <elliott> to be honest I wouldn't bother, getting 100% would be fun
14:12:11 <elliott> plus how would you keep intentional_loss on the hill?
14:12:18 <Lymia> It wouldn't stay :D
14:12:32 <Lymia> I wonder what the scores would look like
14:12:41 <Lymia> If I try to lose to my own nyuroki if possible
14:12:46 <Lymia> But beat everyone else up
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14:48:35 <Jafet> @oeis 2,5,37,137438953481
14:48:36 <lambdabot> Bertrand primes III: a(n+1) is the smallest prime > 2^a(n).[2,5,37,137438953...
14:50:19 <myname> i should define some obscure prime sequence myself
14:51:30 <Jafet> You could try calculating the next term of this sequence instead
14:51:46 <int-e> Jafet: it doesn't exist ;-)
14:51:49 <Jafet> "Although the exact value of the next term is not known, it has 41373247571 digits."
14:52:12 <Jafet> Some would postulate that it does
14:52:16 <int-e> (I know, I'm being silly.)
14:53:45 <Jafet> (This sequence shows that there is a real c>1 such that floor(2^c), floor(2^2^c), floor(2^2^2^c)... are all prime.)
14:55:19 <elliott> that's making me think of a programming language where a program is a real and some predefined function is iterated successively on that real and that's the output, or something
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14:55:33 <elliott> and if it reaches 0 it terminates, or something
14:55:58 <Jafet> Real-valued computers
14:56:13 <elliott> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bitwise_Cyclic_Tag#Arithmetic_interpretation_of_BCT
14:56:29 <Jafet> Though oddly enough if you only allow basic arithmetic operations on reals your language isn't even TC
14:56:34 <elliott> Jafet: like blum-shub-smale? are programs reals in that?
14:56:38 <elliott> I thought it was more that they operated on reals
14:56:40 <int-e> ok, the first digit of 2^137438953481 is 2, so Bertrand's postulate is enough to determine the number of digits.
14:56:48 <elliott> Jafet: the idea would be that the predefined function is baked into the language
14:56:54 <elliott> and the program is just a real
14:59:15 <Jafet> Well, any function that generates a known fractal
15:00:14 <elliott> hmm, would that make it TC?
15:00:32 <Jafet> Depends on the fractal
15:00:40 <int-e> 2^137438953481 = 28024843513561521356110345211558172132560257908867...67016571720973332183893354652688057470310890340352
15:00:42 <Jafet> Are you turing complete
15:00:56 <int-e> I wonder if there's a good way to get some middle digits...
15:01:28 <int-e> Jafet: that's unlikely.
15:01:37 <Jafet> Well, not in decimal.
15:01:51 <int-e> Right. I meant decimal digits.
15:02:10 <int-e> bases 2,4,8,16,etc are somewhat boring.
15:03:18 <Jafet> Hmm, what if you predefine a continuous function
15:04:02 <int-e> (the brutal way would work, storing the whole result in binary would take less than 20 gigabytes.)
15:04:04 <Jafet> (continuous is not the right word)
15:04:50 <int-e> (and, of course, be nicely compressible)
15:05:00 <elliott> Jafet: do you have any reading material on iterating a fractal like that letting you encode turing machines?
15:06:23 <Jafet> Reading? Sounds hard
15:10:15 <Jafet> "[...] show that for every Turing machine there exists a fractal set which can be viewed, in a certain sense, as geometrically encoding the complement of the language accepted by the machine"
15:10:58 <elliott> so you pick a fractal that can be viewed as a UTM, okay.
15:11:07 <elliott> I wonder what doing the computation would actually look like though...
15:11:26 <Jafet> They use IFS, so each operation is an affine transform
15:12:17 <elliott> does the computation turn into the fractal, or can you make a fractal which can do multiple computations depending on where you look? like, do you get "input"?
15:12:18 <int-e> how do you read off a result from an IFS?
15:12:22 <Jafet> It looks like they look at the entire fractal though, so it's nondeterministic in some sense
15:12:40 <int-e> (or the sets of points produced)
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15:13:18 <elliott> right. for this I guess you'd want a fractal where you encode the input in the coordinate pair
15:13:20 <Jafet> http://www.complex-systems.com/pdf/07-6-2.pdf courtesy of the googlebot
15:13:42 <elliott> of course it's in wolfram's journal
15:13:50 <myname> int-e: what the hell does your kimariji solution work?
15:14:26 <int-e> myname: it's simple: it does not build a trie.
15:14:28 <elliott> anyway, you can make a very boring but obvious TC language with the reals this way
15:14:29 <Jafet> Prove once again that haskell golfing basically reduces to abusing list comprehensions
15:14:54 <elliott> treat the real as an infinite string of binary digits, interpret it as infinite program text in $your_favourite_language, run it on the input given
15:15:19 <elliott> well. then the function isn't actually total
15:15:34 <elliott> f = do one step in $lang and return the state encoded into another real, I guess
15:15:41 <elliott> but of course you'd really want to pick a nicer f than that >_>
15:16:34 <int-e> myname: [v|u:v<-x,u==y] collects the tails of those line (suffixes) that match the current line (prefix). This is just what you'd do when building a trie, but here the code is fused with the trie lookup.
15:17:11 <Jafet> You don't even need most of the reals for that. Just let f be the steps in a fractran utm
15:17:31 <int-e> myname: and the [_] matches once the suffix is uniqe.
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15:18:41 <elliott> that's why it's a boring solution
15:18:50 <elliott> ideally f would be continuous or something else like that.
15:20:01 <Jafet> You could use a vector field that pushes a point around in R^n
15:23:02 <int-e> myname: maybe you should just walk through the code on a small input like f ["abc","d","abd"]. Note that the code will fail if any two lines are identical.
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15:29:57 <int-e> myname: http://lpaste.net/1836539165504700416
15:30:56 <int-e> oh, some of those "abc" are really "abcd"; I should not change the input in the middle of writing up the evaluations.
15:31:32 <int-e> myname: so try this instead, http://lpaste.net/3786567722205184000
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15:33:53 <myname> I assume line 15 should be 'd' instead of a :p
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15:34:52 <int-e> but you can see that the first argument to ? are the suffixes of the lines that match the already consumed prefix.
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15:38:39 <Jafet> Hmm could you naturally extend a generalised collatz function to the complex plane
15:38:57 <Jafet> That would give a fractal with provably undecidable properties
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15:40:54 <fractal> ahh now this is relaxing :)
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17:06:40 <Sgeo> I spent $30 and it's missing a part
17:06:43 * Sgeo is very pissed off
17:09:42 <Jafet> Is it reasonable for you to be pissed off
17:11:52 <Sgeo> Google Cardboard
17:12:00 <Sgeo> It's missing a washer
17:14:14 <Jafet> You spent $30 on cardboard?
17:15:29 <oerjan> i don't recommend washing cardboard hth
17:16:54 <Sgeo> It includes lenses a magnet and NFC thingy
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17:30:03 <fizzie> I was thinking of trying out the Cardboard, but I don't have anything to put in it.
17:32:28 <int-e> . o O ( oh you people with stereoscopic 3D vision )
17:33:06 <fizzie> Sgeo: Whose Cardboard did you buy? AIUI, we don't actually sell anything physical related to it.
17:33:25 <Sgeo> I AM CARDBOARD
17:33:57 <fizzie> I totally misinterpreted that at first.
17:34:23 <fizzie> No, no, it's the name.
17:34:26 <int-e> let's play umbrella - rain - cardboard
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17:34:48 <fizzie> int-e: Cardboard beats umbrella?
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17:34:53 <int-e> (I guess the cardboard wins over the umbrella in the same way that paper wins over stone)
17:37:21 <boily> 3D is one dimension too much for me. this kind of thing gives me headaches.
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17:38:10 <myname> boy, RL must be hard for you
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17:38:53 <boily> artificial 3D, like on nintendo's 3DS.
17:39:17 <int-e> what about 3D cinimas?
17:40:35 <boily> I have to be seated near the middle of the center row. otherwise I can't focus. and even then I can't perceive the added 3dness, unless it's that scene where objects float incredibly near you.
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17:57:59 <fizzie> We just went to a "4D experience".
17:58:12 <fizzie> https://www.londoneye.com/AboutUs/4D-Experience/
17:58:27 <fizzie> "-- our new 4D Experience is a groundbreaking 3D film with spectacular in-theatre effects including wind, bubbles and mist to add a breathtaking fourth dimension --"
17:58:49 <int-e> Coca-Cola London Eye ... I'm tempted to stop reading.
17:58:53 <fizzie> (An amusement park back in Finland has been using the "4D" term for quite a while, and I'm sure it's common elsewhere.)
17:59:04 <fizzie> int-e: That's why it's lit up red now, or so I've understood.
17:59:30 <int-e> I'm afraid to ask what they do for Christmas
18:01:11 <fizzie> I wasn't here to see that.
18:22:11 <Taneb> fizzie, it's pretty common term
18:22:40 <Sgeo> Maybe I should buy a similar plastic thingy
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18:22:53 <Sgeo> Which will presumably be non-defective
18:22:54 <Taneb> int-e, it was originally the British Airways London Eye
18:23:06 <Sgeo> Or maybe hardware store has washer? I still don't know how to assemble, and it's a bit annoying
18:23:12 <Taneb> Then Merlin Entertainments, then EDF Energy
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19:05:36 <fizzie> The wheel in Helsinki is the Finnair Skywheel.
19:05:40 <fizzie> But it's a lot smaller.
19:05:59 <fizzie> Today's spam subject line: "As the complete system is written in optimized assembly language, the GUI is fast compared to modern systems."
19:06:27 <fizzie> The contents were unrelated, sadly.
19:06:37 <fizzie> "The revenue was to come from duties imposed on the cotton trade, as well as any other goods coming through the port. Justin and Treasure train them to fight the crystal hunters. Krishna District to Repalle."
19:07:05 <int-e> fungot: I think you're the right person? to answer this.
19:07:06 <fungot> int-e: let's go, why doncha!?
19:07:14 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7* fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
19:07:24 <fizzie> I knew that from "doncha".
19:07:26 <fungot> Selected style: oots (Order Of The Stick)
19:07:32 <int-e> fungot: try again?
19:07:32 <fungot> int-e: the bad news, roy, is now, and he was in the army, too. and, as it is with my people, i would work as well without the rope, i am.
19:07:58 <fizzie> fungot's people are known for working as well without the rope.
19:07:58 <fungot> fizzie: you, uh, any reason... she's really angry. i don't. so if we trade, i get two things i would be as another sword arm this deadly but well-hidden booby trap, goblin friend and me totally gay?
19:08:06 <int-e> fungot: can you send spam?
19:08:06 <fungot> int-e: come to think, ears!
19:10:17 <int-e> fungot is irritating when it almost makes sense
19:10:17 <fungot> int-e: for that, my family would like my mode of transit returned, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, li
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19:14:56 <TieSoul> so does fungot use Markov chains or what?
19:14:56 <fungot> TieSoul: wow, that is such a stupid magic item that can allow my power to fail me again. if arcane magic cannot break you, i've been trying. bozzok can't be far behind.
19:15:51 <TieSoul> because Markov chains would be near impossible to do in Funge :P
19:18:12 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti.
19:19:53 <TieSoul> that means Markov chains I think?
19:20:03 <TieSoul> either way that's really impressive
19:21:01 <int-e> <fizzie> fungot uses ngrams built from log data to generate babble; pretty close to a traditional markov chain thing. [...]
19:21:01 <fungot> int-e: was that supposed to get that " video games, but ruling the world that worship them:
19:23:28 <TieSoul> so I've been thinking, Funge was made to be hard to compile but relatively easy to interpret. Would it be possible to create a language that is hard to interpret but easy to compile?
19:23:29 <int-e> (I guess the quote predates fungot learning to babble in style.)
19:23:29 <fungot> int-e: my was a first edition. with your magic! save us that you couldn't leave well enough alone and kill you, so that the dwarf, " stabby"
19:24:25 <int-e> TieSoul: arguably ... http://esolangs.org/wiki/German ... for a fixed target architecture.
19:24:47 <TieSoul> "my was a first edition." how is fungot always so on-topic?
19:24:48 <fungot> TieSoul: down too, only two more levels. dorukan wanted the bottom, that's coming aboard a ship made of hobgoblin corpses across that particular joke has any advice you could give you the power, as duly noted. i've been up on the mountain
19:26:05 <TieSoul> that's not really a programming language though...
19:26:10 <TieSoul> you could make any binary file with it
19:26:11 <int-e> TieSoul: it's a miracle. as far as I recall, fizzie said that fungot does not take context into account. so it's all your mind making connections. just like horoscopes.
19:26:11 <fungot> int-e: your ass is bigger than the barn! v, i just need to keep, and it was wrong and also dangerous and we'll still have that safe room is right through here and now that your elven friend is comfortably trancing across that particular joke has to be some way to amuse yourself.
19:26:33 <int-e> fungot: I resent that.
19:26:34 <fungot> int-e: to the room of a dwarven assassin who happens. the time, and there, that ought to be good.
19:27:17 <TieSoul> wonder what size ngrams fungot uses?
19:27:17 <fungot> TieSoul: i am the leader and strategic plan in the morning" to you, and the success of the way that i, myself, can hear? look at the shiny light some more?
19:27:49 <TieSoul> I have a Markov bot that uses trigrams, but fungot seems vaguely more coherent than it.
19:27:49 <fungot> TieSoul: down too, only two more levels and are that much closer and ambush, did we?
19:29:28 <TieSoul> might be just because my bot uses the logs from a not-so-coherent IRC channel to construct its trigrams though.
19:30:04 <fungot> Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
19:30:09 <int-e> fungot: be coherent
19:30:09 <fungot> int-e: yeah every 1 fuckin changes either for the second greatest one?). since the aircraft has an amazingly high voice?
19:30:36 <int-e> (this is the second-worst style, in my opinion)
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19:31:09 <fungot> Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20)
19:31:14 <fungot> int-e: thanx for ur support. i see. now confirm got next time :-d btw this world. a city built up in dis world only thing i forgot ......ya the blazer for u hold it like ceo's do ok ..i am also holding me inyour arms. i can't give you everything you want. remember all the furniture is yours also... sighz
19:31:26 <fungot> Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
19:31:36 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube*
19:31:41 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti.
19:31:43 <fungot> Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself)
19:31:46 <fungot> TieSoul: or is it just me, or i: yet, you rogue!
19:32:16 <TieSoul> fungot: what's the difference?
19:32:17 <fungot> TieSoul: is. absorb it on my door, which was just perceptibly fnord and this yields nothing itself; it keeps being removed, the queen is a vain. yes, it's all right, it's been awhile prometheus!
19:32:47 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
19:33:05 <myname> interesting combination
19:33:08 <fungot> TieSoul: i don't see how that hurts in writing a while-loop, you'd have to
19:33:26 <TieSoul> fungot: how what hurts? I'd have to what?
19:33:26 <fungot> TieSoul: there is a python implementation. you can't do
19:33:26 <int-e> fungot: spare us the cliffhangers
19:33:27 <fungot> int-e: if it doesn't you need to reformulate what conditions you are trying to fnord you replace the in the second
19:34:05 <myname> "what conditions are you trying to fnord" :D
19:34:23 <J_Arcane> fungot: what is your opinion of parametric polymorphism
19:34:24 <fungot> J_Arcane: still havn't solved twenty :p the tortoise/ achilles might annoy you, i've seen
19:35:05 <int-e> TieSoul: well, trolling is appropriate for the style.
19:35:11 <TieSoul> fungot: what do you think about ray tracing?
19:35:12 <fungot> TieSoul: will someone who can " barely walk" can ' go out' with the dt nature of scheme which is probably much cleaner than c++. hah!
19:35:51 <TieSoul> okay, so you think it's better to write one in scheme than in C++?
19:36:11 <TieSoul> I wonder if there's any good image libraries for Scheme.
19:36:16 <int-e> I guess fungot learned that on #scheme
19:36:17 <fungot> int-e: and c++ is a continuum between the two than i think
19:36:35 <int-e> whereas that sounds more like #esoteric
19:37:29 <int-e> <ais523> C++ is a continuum of languages, from C to some sort of crazy OO template thing and everything in between
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19:44:53 <CrazyM4n> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/jj553512.aspx
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19:48:27 <fizzie> TieSoul: It's variable-length. https://github.com/vsiivola/variKN
19:48:56 <J_Arcane> I think YouTube is censoring my recommendations.
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19:54:06 <fizzie> I could figure out some statistics about the model but that would probably involve getting out of bed and finding something with a keyboard.
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20:27:15 <Sgeo> How can I touch 3d if my hand is 2d??
20:27:35 <elliott> generally your hand is in fact three-dimensional
20:28:12 <Sgeo> (Tried an augmented reality thing which uses camera... of course, there's only one camera. So I could not move my hand to 'touch' the virtual objects. Looked like hand was always further away then the objects
20:29:47 <Sgeo> Also my Google Cardboard was distressingly close to some HDs earlier :( I hope nothing was wiped out. I heard HD cases are actually protective or something, or is that my imagination?
20:34:46 <fizzie> I don't think it's actually quite that easy to wipe disks with (non-serious) magnets.
20:34:59 <pikhq> Or even moderately serious ones.
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20:36:25 <Taneb> What if you hit the HD very hard with a magnet
20:36:32 <pikhq> The fixed magnet in the voice coil actuator is a neodymium magnet...
20:37:04 <Taneb> Also is it bad I call my laptop's big memory thing its hard drive when it's an SSD?
20:37:39 <fizzie> Taneb: Well, it's not *soft*.
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20:40:56 <fizzie> Calling it a "HDD" might be more questionable since there might be less of a disk.
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21:05:01 <Sgeo> It might be a neodymium magnet. Although I think that's the thing I'm missing
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21:15:50 <Sgeo> pikhq: is a neodymium magnet a 'semi-serious' magnet?
21:17:18 <pikhq> I suppose it's a matter of what you call "serious" really. I mean, they're strong but they aren't a high-power electromagnet or anything like that.
21:18:19 <pikhq> About as serious as you're getting *without* electromagnetism though.
21:18:32 <b_jonas> is a serious one like the helium-cooled superconductor magnet in particle accelerators? or do you count the mere liquid nitrogen cooled MRI machines?
21:18:50 <Sgeo> Serious enough to cause risk to an HD inside a computer, or serious enough to cause risk to an HD not inside a computer
21:19:34 <b_jonas> Sgeo: do you mean a hard disk that's assembled properly, or the platter of a dismembered hard disk?
21:19:42 <Sgeo> Assembled properly
21:19:52 <pikhq> An MRI machine's magnet is probably going to do quite a bit of *physical* damage to a hard drive. :)
21:20:14 <b_jonas> hard disks are surprisingly sturdy and resistant to all kinds of damages though
21:20:47 <b_jonas> as for MRI, their magnetic fields seem to be quite localized
21:21:11 <pikhq> High use of shielding.
21:21:32 <Phantom_Hoover> <b_jonas> is a serious one like the helium-cooled superconductor magnet in particle accelerators? or do you count the mere liquid nitrogen cooled MRI machines?
21:21:32 <b_jonas> pikhq: no, I don't mean how it doesn't go outside the room
21:21:57 <b_jonas> I mean it stays very much in the cylinder, not much outside it
21:22:25 <pikhq> b_jonas: Yes, the outside of the cylinder has a lot of shielding as well. There's electronics out there. :)
21:22:45 <b_jonas> pikhq: there's no shielding on the side where my legs stick out of the machine
21:22:59 <b_jonas> and they let me keep my belt buckle on
21:23:32 * Sgeo meant data damage, not physical damage
21:23:51 <pikhq> That's just magnetism being an inverse square law I suspect.
21:24:05 <b_jonas> it seems too heavy to be aluminium
21:24:12 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: I'm an idiot.
21:24:37 <pikhq> b_jonas: Sure it was an MRI?
21:25:57 <b_jonas> pikhq: yes. that's why there was such a long waiting queue. I also had CT scan but that's easier
21:27:25 <Phantom_Hoover> i guess since it's small, fairly well-anchored and outside the machine you can get away with it
21:27:52 <Phantom_Hoover> but i mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BBx8BwLhqg
21:28:20 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: yes, and it probably matters which part of the body they're scanning
21:28:34 <b_jonas> like, if they wanted further down maybe they would make me remove my belt
21:29:20 <Phantom_Hoover> you can't even safely take all non-magnetic metals into an mri because they can get heated inductively
21:29:50 <b_jonas> the scary part of it though is that they make me remove my glasses early, BEFORE they lead me to the place that has all the warning label stickers
21:30:36 <b_jonas> sure, I don't have metal parts in me, but still
21:32:37 <fizzie> The only serious magnets I've seen were at CERN.
21:32:53 <fizzie> Where "serious" is defined by the existence of warning stickers.
21:33:28 <fizzie> b_jonas: I think I'm just going to say "particles" as a pretty safe bet, since I don't recall exactly. This was more than ten years ago.
21:38:47 <fizzie> I think it maybe was part of ISOLDE, but that's just a guess.
21:39:07 <fizzie> Also I think technically we did see the CMS, but it was being built and not operational.
21:39:25 <fizzie> Or some part of it, anyway.
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21:45:47 <Taneb> Why do I keep thinking that David Bowie is dead
21:47:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
22:00:28 * boily pokes Taneb in the parallel universe
22:01:03 -!- Lilax has joined.
22:02:56 <Taneb> Lilax, I got poked in a parallel universe
22:03:50 <Lilax> I'm getting poked in an infinite ammount of universes that have a parrallel me
22:03:57 <Lilax> So you aren't alone
22:04:32 <Taneb> Specifically, a parallel universe where David Bowie is not alive
22:08:09 <Taneb> And I was poked by the boily of this universew
22:13:42 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
22:20:30 <Taneb> He said so himself
22:25:10 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:30:15 -!- Lilax has changed nick to Zefphex.
22:31:03 <boily> Zefphex: I haven't asked you the The Question yet, did I?
22:32:12 <boily> what are your approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh?
22:33:54 <elliott> didn't you give up on answering that :p
22:33:57 <boily> it's the The Question. the answers go in the File.
22:34:32 <boily> elliott: somewhat. it's like full feature movies made long after the main series have ended.
22:34:40 <Zefphex> Idk if I can answer that m'lady
22:35:16 * boily strokes his luxurious beard. “hmm... no. ain't no m'lady. perhaps next week!”
22:35:39 <Zefphex> Geographic location: Earth , on a hill somewhere Body weight: Average teenage boy weight of a depressed under fed kid
22:36:20 <boily> that'll do, that'll do...
22:37:02 <Zefphex> You can ask someone else who I am boily
22:37:23 <boily> to measure this channel's centre of mass.
22:37:49 <Taneb> boily, could you PM me the coord you have for me?
22:39:55 <Zefphex> Just average all weight down to the ages
22:40:23 <Zefphex> per each different age 11-90 estimate the age and weight of each user
22:40:40 <Zefphex> imagine them in one place of 300 ft
22:40:54 <Zefphex> And calc how much everyone is
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22:44:45 <elliott> where did this topic come from...
22:44:53 <elliott> uh. the literal /topic. not the topic of conversation.
22:45:31 <b_jonas> elliott: there was something in the chat about "cinnamon" but I've no idea what it referred to
22:46:39 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:52:18 <Zefphex> there I have said a topic so I shall change it to exactly that
22:52:28 <Zefphex> as that's how it apparently works here
22:52:31 <Sgeo_> Have you ever heard cinnamon stumble over its words?
22:52:42 -!- Zefphex has set topic: Cake water | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
22:53:04 <Zefphex> But why an under score near your name?
22:53:14 <shachaf> why do you keep changing your nick?
22:54:25 <Sgeo_> My client's nickname thing doesn't show an _
22:54:32 * Sgeo_ decides that Quassel is defective
22:54:57 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined.
22:55:10 <Sgeo_> But presumably some disconnection issue where I stayed logged in and tried to log in again
22:56:12 <Zefphex> Do you have that strong of a dislike for nick changing you have to bring it up?
22:57:15 <Zefphex> Couldn't you mildly Express you discontent over a period of time
22:57:32 <Zefphex> That seems easier and less intrusive of a persons being
22:57:41 <Taneb> I was listening to the radio, and they played a David Bowie song, and I posted here and on Tumblr that I am endlessly surprised that he is still alive, and then a while later they started talking about how amazing it is that Bowie has survived so long
22:58:04 <Zefphex> That he steals from poking people
22:58:23 <shachaf> Zefphex: What's the point of what you're saying right now? What's the point of anything you say? What are you even doing here? I don't get it.
22:58:59 <Zefphex> What's the point of you talking to me if you don't get the point of me doing stuff
22:59:15 <Zefphex> Wouldn't the point be to ignore someone you have no point of talking to?
22:59:15 <boily> Zefphex: I am not David Bowie. I am not elliott. and I do not cosplay Nepeta Leijon on weekends.
22:59:39 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott.
22:59:42 -!- elliott has kicked shachaf shachaf.
22:59:43 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott.
23:00:11 <Zefphex> Also I'm playing skyward sword whilst making a data structure
23:02:43 <Taneb> boily, if you're not elliott, and I'm not elliott... then WHO IS ELLIOTT?
23:11:10 <zzo38> Do you like a IRC bot program that is using C and SQLite?
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23:43:17 <boily> zzo38: does it have any interesting features?
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23:58:08 <zzo38> boily: I don't actually know of any exist yet by this time, although I may be able to write one.