←2015-01-28 2015-01-29 2015-01-30→ ↑2015 ↑all
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00:16:54 <fizzie> int-e: The "no not markov" loop is a well-known one.
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00:40:19 <Taneb> Aaaah what are the units of a ring
00:41:23 <Taneb> Ah, one with a multiplicative inverse
00:50:12 <Sgeo> Step-mom just told me I do not need to gain more weight
00:50:57 <Taneb> Sgeo, is your step-mom a medical professional
00:51:18 <Sgeo> Supposedly she is a nutritionist
00:51:36 <Taneb> Hmm
00:51:42 <Taneb> Well I do not know your situation
00:51:57 <Taneb> I definitely need to gain wait
00:52:00 <Taneb> ...
00:52:03 <Taneb> *weight
00:53:28 <Taneb> If only to make my trousers not fall down
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00:59:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, i lost a shitload of weight last summer due to illness, the trouser crisis was almost catastrophic
01:00:36 <Taneb> :(
01:01:14 <Phantom_Hoover> don't be sad, i never liked my old trousers all that much anyway
01:01:22 <Phantom_Hoover> i have much nicer ones now
01:01:53 <Taneb> The :( was at least partially at illness
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02:11:50 <elliott> who is still involved with haskell community stuff?
02:12:01 <elliott> what are the "best practices" these days with all this stackage and LTS haskell stuff and so on
02:14:12 <boily> LTS?
02:14:36 <elliott> http://www.stackage.org/lts https://github.com/fpco/lts-haskell#readme don't ask me
02:14:54 <elliott> I just wanna know what tooling everyone uses now :p
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02:17:22 <boily> oic tdh
02:18:07 <arjanb> afaik most just continue to suffer with cabal and hackage, and hope it will get fixed sometime in the future...
02:18:18 <elliott> well, there's cabal sandboxes, at least
02:18:25 <elliott> those were nice enough last time I did haskell properly
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02:19:37 <arjanb> and now they are thinking about moving cabal to a Nix style of package management
02:20:11 <elliott> oh, I thought that already happened
02:20:44 <boily> fungot: how do you feel about the PVP?
02:20:44 <fungot> boily:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov
02:21:55 <arjanb> see also http://www.well-typed.com/blog/2015/01/how-we-might-abolish-cabal-hell-part-2/
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02:51:14 <Jafet> stackage "versions are hard, who needs them anyway"
02:51:27 <Jafet> Such nosql, very webscale
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02:53:29 <diginet> is "pre-processing" a valid strategy when trying to write a tokenizer? (Inserting spaces, to make it easier to process, for example)
02:59:12 <Jafet> That is normally not necessary, unless your token language is not regular
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03:19:41 <Eolus> digimon
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04:39:54 <Eolus> I'm pretty sure my job description is just gonna be "Litterally something but Functionally a complete waste of space"
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04:48:20 <Eolus> I also cannot grammar
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08:13:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Taktentus * New user account
08:21:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Taktentus]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41731 * Taktentus * (+505) Initial
08:21:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Taktentus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41732&oldid=41731 * Taktentus * (-113) Initial 2
08:24:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Taktentus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41733&oldid=41732 * Taktentus * (+145) add variables
08:29:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Taktentus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41734&oldid=41733 * Taktentus * (+56) daa author
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09:16:28 <mroman> Who'd have thought
09:16:34 <mroman> Drones impose a security problem
09:16:43 <mroman> I'm almost shocked
09:17:02 <mroman> Although this could create new jobs
09:17:05 <mroman> "Drone Sniper"
09:17:31 <mroman> "I'm just sitting there all day with my sniper rifle and when a drone enters our air zone I'll shoot it down."
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09:23:09 <mroman> Using drones to smuggle stuff into prisons...
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11:57:12 <Jafet> Sniper drones that hunt drone snipers
12:05:03 <mroman> yeah
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12:07:14 <boily> Jafellot. I'm not sure it's a good idea. poetically sound, but it makes me feel queasy...
12:07:19 <boily> mrelloman.
12:07:28 <oerjan> now combine this with pizza hut drones and you have an idea for a game.
12:08:18 <boily> hellørjan. are they pizza-hut drones or pizza hut-drones?
12:09:30 <oerjan> the former. they deliver pizza.
12:10:26 <mroman> blsq ) {{1 {2 3} {}} {9} {{{8}}} "huhu" { {1 {2 {3}}}}}FL
12:10:27 <mroman> {1 2 3 9 8 "huhu" 1 2 3}
12:10:45 <mroman> I guess you could steal the pizza from pizza-hut drones with a pizza-stealing drone
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12:11:03 <mroman> A new flood of drone related incidents happened last month!
12:11:08 <mroman> `? drone
12:11:09 <HackEgo> drone? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:11:14 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure the game wants some actual shooting hth
12:11:37 <mroman> `learn drones are tools used to perform certain criminal actions that were not possible in the ancient times.
12:11:38 <HackEgo> Learned 'drone': drones are tools used to perform certain criminal actions that were not possible in the ancient times.
12:12:24 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/the //' wisdom/drone
12:12:27 <HackEgo> No output.
12:12:31 <Jafet> For example, murder.
12:12:44 <mroman> `learn cyberdrone is a drone flying in cyberspace.
12:12:46 <HackEgo> Learned 'cyberdrone': cyberdrone is a drone flying in cyberspace.
12:12:51 <mroman> `? drone
12:12:51 <HackEgo> drones are tools used to perform certain criminal actions that were not possible in ancient times.
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12:13:13 <mroman> oerjan: what did you sed?
12:13:32 <mroman> `cat wisdom/drone
12:13:32 <HackEgo> drones are tools used to perform certain criminal actions that were not possible in ancient times.
12:13:33 <oerjan> mroman: i removed "the " before ancient times hth
12:13:34 <Jafet> Has pizza not been stolen since ancient times?
12:13:38 <Jafet> @wn pizza
12:13:40 <lambdabot> *** "pizza" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
12:13:40 <mroman> ah. Ok
12:13:40 <lambdabot> pizza
12:13:40 <lambdabot> n 1: Italian open pie made of thin bread dough spread with a
12:13:40 <lambdabot> spiced mixture of e.g. tomato sauce and cheese [syn:
12:13:40 <lambdabot> {pizza}, {pizza pie}]
12:14:22 <oerjan> boily: your goal, in this game, is to help pizza hut expand its operations in north pakistan hth
12:14:37 <vanila> help me out?
12:14:50 <boily> vanello. about what?
12:14:51 <vanila> i want to compile a language with lambda
12:14:59 <mroman> `run 'echo "How old are you?" > "wisdom"/"drone sex"'
12:14:59 <HackEgo> bash: echo "How old are you?" > "wisdom"/"drone sex": No such file or directory
12:15:02 <mroman> hm
12:15:04 <vanila> im not sure how to make t efficient enough
12:15:10 <mroman> `run echo "How old are you?" > "wisdom"/"drone sex"
12:15:12 <HackEgo> No output.
12:15:17 <mroman> `? drone sex
12:15:18 <HackEgo> How old are you?
12:15:35 <Jafet> No wonder pizza is eaten everywhere. Open pies know no boundaries.
12:15:39 <mroman> It might include strapping a strap on onto a drone and then...
12:15:40 <mroman> well...
12:16:51 <mroman> wait.. pizza is a sub-group of pie?
12:17:08 <mroman> @wn pie
12:17:09 <lambdabot> *** "pie" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
12:17:10 <lambdabot> pie
12:17:10 <lambdabot> n 1: dish baked in pastry-lined pan often with a pastry top
12:17:10 <lambdabot> 2: a prehistoric unrecorded language that was the ancestor of
12:17:10 <lambdabot> all Indo-European languages [syn: {Proto-Indo European},
12:17:11 <lambdabot> {PIE}]
12:20:02 <oerjan> when the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie
12:20:34 <vanila> :(
12:21:07 <oerjan> vanila: is this language lazy? read up on ye olde stg machine
12:21:15 <vanila> strict
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12:21:58 <oerjan> the read up on caml i guess
12:22:02 <oerjan> *then
12:22:39 <Jafet> Compile to a language with lambda hth
12:23:38 <mroman> hm
12:23:44 <mroman> what the hell does Loop do in Burlesque?
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12:26:09 <mroman> !blsq_uptime
12:26:09 <blsqbot> 2d 2h 14m 34s
12:26:13 <mroman> !blsq LO
12:26:14 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Unknown command: (LO)!
12:26:39 <mroman> ow... it executes a predicate over every two element as long as the predicate returns true
12:26:52 <vanila> i wonder where i could get help on this?
12:27:05 <mroman> blsq ) {1 2 3 4 -1 2}0{.>}LO
12:27:06 <mroman> {1 2 3 4}
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12:35:29 <mroman> oh wait
12:35:33 <mroman> Burlesque Webserver
12:35:37 <mroman> where is it
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12:47:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41735 * TomPN * (+2864) Created page with "'''KlingonCode''' is an esoteric programming language invented by Tom Price-Nicholson in 2015. It is based on the Klingon language from Star Trek. Instructions, inputs, output..."
12:48:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:TomPN]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41736&oldid=41425 * TomPN * (+111)
12:49:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41737&oldid=41735 * TomPN * (+224)
12:50:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41738&oldid=41737 * TomPN * (+0) /* See also */
12:50:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[RingCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41739&oldid=41605 * TomPN * (+38) /* See also */
12:50:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[IDTM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41740&oldid=41455 * TomPN * (+38) /* See also */
12:51:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41741&oldid=41706 * TomPN * (+38) /* See also */
12:51:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41742&oldid=41603 * TomPN * (+38) /* See also */
12:51:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Musical notes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41743&oldid=41602 * TomPN * (+38) /* See also */
12:52:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[RingCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41744&oldid=41739 * TomPN * (+1) /* See also */
12:52:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[IDTM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41745&oldid=41740 * TomPN * (+1) /* See also */
12:53:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41746&oldid=41671 * TomPN * (+18) /* K */
12:54:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41747&oldid=41738 * TomPN * (+8) /* Syntax */
12:54:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41748&oldid=41747 * TomPN * (+1) /* Variables */
12:55:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41749&oldid=41748 * TomPN * (-24) /* Input and output */
12:55:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41750&oldid=41749 * TomPN * (+4) /* Input and output */
12:55:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41751&oldid=41750 * TomPN * (+2) /* Sums */
12:56:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41752&oldid=41751 * TomPN * (+3) /* Creating a class */
12:56:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41753&oldid=41752 * TomPN * (+0) /* Example programs */
13:00:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41754&oldid=41753 * TomPN * (+345) /* Execution time */
13:02:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41755&oldid=41754 * TomPN * (+190) /* Execution time */
13:02:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41756&oldid=41755 * TomPN * (-190) /* Execution time */
13:08:07 <mroman> http://mroman.ch:8000/reverse.blsq?stdin=hello
13:08:08 <mroman> hehe
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13:29:41 <mroman> Can't happstack give me the list of querystring parameters?
13:32:02 <Taneb> I am stuck on a question of my ring theory assignment
13:32:04 <Taneb> `? ring
13:32:05 <HackEgo> Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them.
13:32:10 <Taneb> Delicious
13:33:12 <Taneb> "Let D be a finite no-trivial ring with no zero divisors. Prove that D is a ring with identity"
13:33:17 <Taneb> Can someone give me a pointer
13:33:37 <Taneb> And not in the C sense
13:35:44 <mroman> what's a no-trivial ring?
13:36:37 <mroman> a ring with identity is supposed to have q * 1 = q = 1 * q
13:37:12 <mroman> ah. A trivial ring is where 1=0
13:37:13 <mroman> i see
13:37:36 <Taneb> I meant "non-trivial", and yes
13:40:34 <vanila> If you multiply every number together a*b*c*d*e = x then x is equal to one of those numbers
13:41:00 <mroman> no zero divisors means a*b = 0 doesn't exist, right?
13:41:12 <mroman> so there's no a and no b that would satisfy a*b = 0
13:41:21 <vanila> suppose x = c, then what's a*b*d*e?
13:41:24 <mroman> my discrete math course was some while ago
13:41:28 <jameseb> mroman: yes, if a and b are non-zero
13:45:14 <mroman> Taneb: hm
13:45:26 <mroman> if a*b = 0 and b*c = 0
13:46:05 <mroman> then a,b,c are all non zero
13:47:30 <mroman> ok but that's not really insightful
13:47:45 <jameseb> mroman: that's taking it the wrong way round
13:47:54 <mroman> a*b*b*c would be zero as well :(
13:48:01 <Taneb> I think the proof relies on D being finite
13:48:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41757&oldid=41756 * TomPN * (+338) /* Syntax */
13:48:11 <Taneb> So you can sort of multiply right round D and get back to where you started
13:48:25 <mroman> if it's finite yes
13:48:51 <Taneb> The question does say "finite"
13:49:30 <mroman> yeah
13:50:10 <vanila> did you get what I said
13:52:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41758&oldid=41757 * TomPN * (-154) /* Execution time */
13:53:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41759&oldid=41758 * TomPN * (-58) /* Syntax */
13:53:56 <vanila> I feel ignored :(
13:53:59 <jameseb> vanila: I'm not sure what you said shows it's an identity for all elements of the ring
13:57:15 <jameseb> unless you can show it squares to itself and is an identity for it's additive inverse, I think
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13:58:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41760&oldid=41692 * Rottytooth * (+95) /* External resources */ added intro link
14:04:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[RingCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41761&oldid=41744 * TomPN * (+19) /* See also */
14:04:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[RingCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41762&oldid=41761 * TomPN * (+0) /* See also */
14:04:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[RingCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41763&oldid=41762 * TomPN * (+0) /* See also */
14:05:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[IDTM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41764&oldid=41745 * TomPN * (+19) /* See also */
14:05:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41765&oldid=41759 * TomPN * (+19) /* See also */
14:06:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[RingCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41766&oldid=41763 * TomPN * (+38) /* See also */
14:07:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[IDTM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41767&oldid=41764 * TomPN * (+40) /* See also */
14:07:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41768&oldid=41765 * TomPN * (+21) /* See also */
14:08:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41769&oldid=41768 * TomPN * (+26) /* See also */
14:09:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[IDTM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41770&oldid=41767 * TomPN * (+26) /* See also */
14:09:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[RingCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41771&oldid=41766 * TomPN * (+48) /* See also */
14:10:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[IDTM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41772&oldid=41770 * TomPN * (+22) /* See also */
14:10:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[KlingonCode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41773&oldid=41769 * TomPN * (+22) /* See also */
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14:26:15 <oerjan> oh hm
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14:33:56 <oerjan> Taneb: find an element a such that a^(n+1) = a. consider (a^n b - b)a for any b.
14:34:17 <oerjan> erm
14:34:24 <oerjan> * a(a^n b - b)
14:34:43 <oerjan> let's not slip in commutativity here
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14:39:19 * oerjan convinces himself it's not true if you just have a monoid.
14:39:28 <oerjan> er *semigroup
14:40:04 <oerjan> or wait
14:40:22 * oerjan backtracks
14:41:11 <oerjan> if it is true for semigroups that would be a generalization
14:41:27 <oerjan> oh hm
14:42:06 <oerjan> the First monoid (without Nothing) is a counterexample.
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14:44:02 <oerjan> that depends on noncommutativity to avoid having a zero though.
14:44:51 <oerjan> now, with a semigroup if you have a zero and no "zero divisors" you can just remove the zero and you still have a semigroup
14:47:27 <oerjan> except now the _remainder_ could have another zero.
14:48:21 <oerjan> and zero divisors for that.
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14:51:15 <oerjan> (0,0), (1,1), (1,2) and (2,1) with min as product is a commutative counterexample.
14:51:55 <Taneb> oerjan, can distributivity over + save us?
14:52:19 <oerjan> Taneb: um i'm talking about semigroup case. i already told you how to do it for rings hth
14:52:24 <Taneb> Oh
14:52:30 <Taneb> Sorry, I was pretty much asleep
14:52:41 <Taneb> Thanks
14:52:49 <oerjan> you're welcome
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16:16:10 <tswett> Hmm hmm, Chu spaces. Hmm hmm.
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16:20:36 <mroman> Ask Taneb about them
16:20:41 <mroman> He invented them.
16:23:33 <Taneb> mroman, Chu stole the invention and all my knowledge of hem
16:25:10 <mroman> It's hard to believe people can just invent spaces.
16:25:29 <coppro> somebody needed to invent the non-breaking space
16:36:35 <tswett> I think I'm going to create an esolang based on "Chu Spaces: A Model of Concurrency".
16:36:46 <tswett> http://i.stanford.edu/pub/cstr/reports/cs/tr/94/1521/CS-TR-94-1521.pdf
16:36:58 <tswett> By, uh... Vineet Gupta.
16:39:55 <Phantom_Hoover> vineet gupta, alter alias: taneb
16:40:13 <Taneb> Vingevd Guptaneb
16:40:31 <tswett> Yes, I'm starting to figure out what this will look like.
16:40:40 <tswett> There will be classes, classes will have attributes...
16:44:48 <mroman> no way
16:45:03 <tswett> And it's going to be freaky.
16:45:04 <mroman> There should be attributes
16:45:08 <mroman> and attributes have classes
16:45:20 <tswett> Here, let me give you a taste.
16:48:11 <tswett> instream { a; b; instream tail; a excludes b; (tail.a or tail.b) requires (a or b) }
16:51:03 <mroman> I don't get it.
16:51:14 <tswett> Well, there's a space called an instream.
16:51:28 <tswett> An instream consists of three things: an event a, an event b, and an instream tail.
16:51:39 <tswett> "a excludes b" means that it is not possible for both a and b to happen.
16:52:00 <tswett> And then "tail.a or tail.b requires a or b" means that neither tail.a nor tail.b can happen unless a or b happens.
16:57:34 <mroman> I see
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17:52:15 <vanila> hi
17:53:46 <yermanyTorres> hola
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18:08:16 <yermanyTorres> hola q tal
18:09:56 <yermanyTorres> :-*
18:10:28 <yermanyTorres> :-$
18:10:30 <int-e> `relcome yermanyTorres
18:10:31 <HackEgo> yermanyTorres: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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18:10:49 <int-e> hah.
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19:02:00 <vanila> http://trixter.oldskool.org/2012/12/17/maze-generation-in-thirteen-bytes/
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19:18:58 <int-e> scasb is such an awful rng.
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19:53:37 <Phantom_Hoover> god has homestuck still not ended
19:54:08 <Phantom_Hoover> int-e, i thought you meant rng as in the algebra
19:54:12 <Phantom_Hoover> was confused
19:54:44 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: I might use "ring without unit" but never "rng".
19:55:31 <int-e> (Well, not with that meaning. Obviously I'm comfortable with rng meaning "random number generator")
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20:19:16 <J_Arcane> how the fuck does anyone learn microsoft programming languages
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20:19:32 <b_jonas> stupid slow memory!
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20:28:39 <olsner> J_Arcane: through bing?
20:35:19 <J_Arcane> the MVA videos basically all either expect you to know C# already, or to be barely familiar with the operation of a computer.
20:36:44 <J_Arcane> Quality books seem few and far between and are, of course, all expensive.
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20:39:02 <J_Arcane> there's basically no interactive stuff at all, which always makes me sad.
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20:39:52 <olsner> isn't the whole programming environment interactive?
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20:44:07 <J_Arcane> Not really in a helpful sense like I mean, no.
20:52:01 <zzo38> How useful do units of picohertz become in various circumstances?
20:52:24 <b_jonas> hello, zzo38
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21:02:52 <zzo38> Do you hate "Planeswalker Points"?
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21:24:12 <skj3gg> J_Arcane: I started by learning unity3d scripting tutorials, once I had the basics down, would find tutorials about c# oop and the like.
21:24:50 <skj3gg> I knew a bit of Java (really similar IMO) before which helped too
21:29:06 <MDude> I sually like being able to step through stuff.
21:29:41 <MDude> Since that's very useful for when I make some ridiculous typo that somehow didn't get caught.
21:30:29 <J_Arcane> skj3gg: I started with F# and loved it, but know fuck all about .NET, and most of the templates and guides sorta assume you know C# already.
21:31:21 <J_Arcane> MDude: I really think that, as a model, the Codecademy courses are a great way to learn programming, and I wish more would pick up on it.
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21:39:12 <MDude> I like it, but the actual courses are a bit oddly structured.
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21:40:17 <MDude> They really don't take advantage of the nature of unit testing to let a clever student code ahead with a program that achives the longer term goal as well at the immediate.
21:40:31 <MDude> *acheaves
21:41:15 <J_Arcane> MDude: That is one thing I liked about CodeWars and the various "koans", is the focus on tests.
21:42:06 <MDude> Breaking it up into smaller lessons is fine, the annoying part is when they tell you to make something structured exactly a certain way
21:42:12 <J_Arcane> HackerRank uses an external test framework that checks through stdio, so it gets a bit tedious with languages that they haven't written the boilerplate I/O routines for yet.
21:42:29 <MDude> and it's obvious they just want to replace all the code with new comments in the next lesson without you noticing how it actually works.
21:44:04 <J_Arcane> MDude: That was something a bit weird in some of them too, yes; like the exercises were compartmentalized to the point where stuff you wrote in one section didn't carry over at all to the next.
21:44:20 <Lymia> MDude, why would you teach like that? ._.
21:44:45 <MDude> I woulnd't, and if I made Codeacademy I'd make it differently.
21:44:58 <J_Arcane> And in the end, the Python guide only gave me the basics, it was going through building a proper application that taught me the rest (for one thing, the CA guide barely goes into OOP).
21:45:09 <MDude> The problem seems to be that lesson author want to be able to put in clarifying comments anywhere in the code, but there's no way to do that.
21:45:16 <ais523> <spambot> Please enter the message for your recipients here. You are free to enter and edit your message just like you do it in your favorite text editor! This editor supports different fonts, tables, images and much more. Just replace this text with you own message and proceed to the mass mailing!
21:45:26 <ais523> this is confirming a few theories of mine
21:45:44 <MDude> Which I guess could be solved by having the text editor itself broken up into sctions somehow.
21:45:50 <J_Arcane> Still, the basic idea of a programmed, interactive, all-in-browser, progress-tracked method like that is quite sound and I'm honestly surprised it's taken so long for someone to get back to it.
21:46:14 <J_Arcane> It's weird that a computer field still seems so married to dead tree when it comes to the learning routine ..
21:46:15 <MDude> What other site is doing it?
21:46:39 <ais523> from address (presumably forged) is an Australian bank
21:46:51 <J_Arcane> MDude: I found one called Programmr (that even has a C# course), and there's the Learn X sites (which are mostly rubbish), and CodeSchool.
21:47:04 <MDude> I do like that idea, yeah. I actully went over to a similar thing that focuses on graphical programs.
21:47:12 <J_Arcane> But really by my remark I meant that the last interactive learning tool like that I saw was for DOS, and before that, bloody PLATO.
21:48:23 <MDude> Oh, here it is. http://www.crunchzilla.com/
21:49:21 <J_Arcane> Cool.
21:49:34 <MDude> I guess they don't want to digitize it because coding students would be the best at pirating expensive college-level books?
21:56:17 <J_Arcane> Well, perhaps it's more than the interactive approach would more or less put a whole lot of programming teachers out of their jobs ...
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22:06:03 <zzo38> Best way is learn by the book I think.
22:06:17 <zzo38> And/or to do it by yourself.
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22:42:09 <zzo38> Someone told me that casting pointers to C standard library functions into void* type might not work on some computers but usually it would be OK? A SQLite extension I wrote does this.
22:45:14 <zzo38> On what computers does it fail?
22:49:40 <olsner> iirc some mainframe and/or itanium
22:50:28 <olsner> it depends on if they were talking about the cast to void* or the pointer to library function though
22:50:35 <olsner> some functions are allowed to be macros
22:51:07 <zzo38> The functions I have done the cast with are the math.h functions.
22:52:35 <zzo38> Such as sin, cos, tan, log, exp, sqrt, and so on. SQLite saves them and lets the other function I defined to know the saved value, which is then cast back into the proper type in order to be called, and passes it the parameters given in the SQL code and returns the result to the SQL code.
22:54:18 <zzo38> Are any of those allowed to be macros?
22:54:33 <zzo38> Furthermore would they cause any other problems used in this way?
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22:58:16 <J_Arcane> So Programmr is shit.
22:58:16 <olsner> the math stuff seem to be allowed to be macros, but also required to exist as functions
22:59:09 <zzo38> In that case that part isn't a problem at least.
22:59:20 <zzo38> It works on my computer anyways.
23:00:06 <zzo38> Is this the reason they are required to exist as functions?
23:02:04 <zzo38> It seems like it might be a common thing to do when writing extensions for various programming systems.
23:03:59 <olsner> not sure, but I suspect it's for compatability with things like declaring the function manually without including the header
23:05:25 <zzo38> OK, although that doesn't really seem like something that should normally be done
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23:30:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfork]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41774 * 72.200.146.118 * (+28) Added fork bomb description.
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